/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>49377454
I'm assuming in the original example the spiders are going to be weaving actual armor not a silk shirt. I agree once an organism excretes something it falls under matter.

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>>49377454

Like if you were using Just the spider silk you'd have to effectively cocoon yourself to get the really high armor values. Which does have it's benefits if you just want an impromptu panic room in the woods

Okay /wodg/, who is your favorite big cosmic big bad and/or 'god' in CofD? A fan of the Dark Mama? Do you side with the long dead Papa Wolf? Cheer for the underdog The Principle? Want to get a beer with the Exarchs? Why?

>>49378116
Why do you qualify the Principle as a Big Bad?

>>49378293
and/or 'god'.

It is more neutral dickish in alignment than bad.

>>49378116
I mostly dislike all the cosmic entities. If I wanted to play Call of Cthulhu I'd play CoC.

>>49378116
I'm partial to Helios and I hope he gets more cool stuff as Werewolf gets more books.

>>49378293
Principle, even in its busted state, is near the top of the pyramid in terms of power scale.

>>49378525
It makes me wish The Principle had an inkling of structure. Even if it was just something more underground compared to the G-M having access to whole parallel dimensions and cities.

Though I guess, in a way, alchemist societies are just that. Underground Principle supporters, even if they don't know it.

>>49378525
Nothing says fun like consistent oppressive anger. Nurturing like a distant abusive father, mindful like big brother always in the sky, that is our Father Helios.

>>49378116
>nobody likes the Judges

But who doesn't like beings who invented pain?

>>49378116
Father Wolf.

>>49379041
I like Father Wolf because his only crime was growing old. He was literally keeping the world from falling apart, protecting everyone he could, killing dickbag spirits that wanted to screw with everything and gain more power.

Then he just got too long in the tooth.

>>49378116
Are Kerberoi big enough? They're the only ones I can stand.

>>49379073
>crime
>thinking he's protecting the world
We like him for different reasons.

>>49379082
The 'Death Gods' right? I still barely know anything about them honestly. Geist was just that hard to care about.

Were there any big named ones, or did they keep them all vague and alien?

>>49379135
I wouldn't call them alien, since they have almost reasonable goals and behaviors. My favorite was the one who ran his domain as a prison/purgatory for ghosts.

Going to be running a Moros soon focusing on making magic items/weapons to fight other supernatural beings. Also want immortality. Wat do?

>>49379390
You'll want matter and prime, then any other arcana

Anyone got V20 Ready Made Characters or Dust to Dust?

>>49379334
Yama, of Lowgate Prison.
I also really like that Dominion.

Man, I hope we see some neat Dead Dominion stuff in 2e.

>>49379022
We need a Book of the Judges, to fully comprehend their douchebaggery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1W5JF4lRIQ
Have you ever played a mortal who was convinced he was a Vampire after being bitten?

>>49379390
Utilize Ghosts as your spy network. Most supernaturals will not see them coming. Ask your Storyteller if he allows "Ghost Fetishes". Also ask them if you can port lifespan stealing spells from 1ed - monsters won't be needing it for much longer. Have them specialize in hunting Abmortals. You can vivisect them to see what makes them tick. Something to read Bans and Banes could be useful for some entities. If you know a monster's weakness, you might not even need to enchant your stuff.

>>49379752
>Utilize Ghosts as your spy network.
those guys who can't comprehend what's happening are great spies
>Most supernaturals will not see them coming.
because they can't come
>Ask your Storyteller if he allows "Ghost Fetishes"
werewolf stuff
>Also ask them if you can port lifespan stealing spells from 1ed - monsters won't be needing it for much longer.
those extra ten years are going to matter a lot
>Have them specialize in hunting Abmortals. You can vivisect them to see what makes them tick.
except there's nothing about that, abmortals are so shitty even the books didn't get into them
>Something to read Bans and Banes could be useful for some entities. If you know a monster's weakness, you might not even need to enchant your stuff.
its also in another arcanum

What do I need to run this: http://scarygodmother.wikia.com/wiki/Scary_Godmother_Wiki

>>49379808
>those guys who can't comprehend what's happening are great spies
Quicken Ghost (Death 3)
>because they can't come
?
>werewolf stuff
Craft Fetish (Spirit 4)
>those extra ten years are going to matter a lot
Sure. More time to find more monsters to get more time.
>except there's nothing about that, abmortals are so shitty even the books didn't get into them
WOD - Immortals, Geist - Sin-Eaters
>its also in another arcanum
Which he can learn. Or, he can get a Ban-reading item. Or ask a Cabal-mate to do it.

>Advanced and epic merits in Beast
It feels like the actual crossover in this game was with Scion.

>>49379624
Their dickery is old school shitty but at least it has purpose as they see it. The biggest dicks of all were the shan'iatu, who reached such a plane of being dicks that even the god-machine wanted nothing to do with them.

>>49379969
Plot twist, beasts are actually titanspawn scions. Scion and cofd are the same universe

>>49380043
I concede, but what do you think about the Lost Guild leaders? Even the other Shan'iatu didn't like them.

>>49378116
The Abyss counts?

>>49380128
That depends, why do you like it?

hey guys, running a game tonight with a vampire as an antagonist. Thing is its the first time I've used a vamp (only familiar with giest changeling and werewolf) , and i just realized i have no idea what the fuck to do with one if it bites someone. I figured out just the general attack rolls and whatnot, pulled some stats from offline, but i have no idea how to do it biting a character. Help please?

>>49380323

Try. Mortals may spend a willpower and test. resolve + composure - blood pot of vamp to not be scared / swooned.

Otherwise, they're a bite action. Her fangs count as 0L weapons

>>49380323
Blood and Smoke page 94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGRd2lElFTs

>>49382047
What

>>49382047
Not only she's fat as a whale she's clipping all over

>>49380108
They were king dicks of the ass forest, since they were the ones dicking over their dick kindred.

>>49382138

It's a CofD Wrestling League. It's a thing that exists, apparently.

Hey folks, in Requiem 2nd edition is there a way a ghoul character might be immune to the blood bond? I was thinking of making a ghoul for an upcoming game and I'd like some ability to be playable without eating a level three bond five minutes in. If the concept would be too much trouble, I can do something else.

Also, there was discussion about ghoul families and I assumed there would be merits to allow for being a member of one but there weren't. Are the rules available somewhere?

>>49383332
You're immune to a blood bond if you already have one, and your regnant is still alive. Also if you kill the vamp that gave you the bond.

You might want to work with the ST to decide on what being a member of a ghoul family would entail. Perhaps being able to eat a point of lethal in exchange for a point of vitae, and a vitae pool of 5 instead of [stamina].

>>49383332
Check the mega, under vampire, there is a book called 'Ghouls'. It has the rules for the different Ghoul bloodlines.

Unless 2e talks about them at all, which I don't know, and doubt.

If your ghoul is just supposed to be part of vampire politics, yeah you'll probably want to do like >>49383400 said and just have a bloodbond with an NPC you don't hate. You could even blow merit dots and make them a 'true friend' or something, but ask your ST about that first since it is problematic for a few reasons.

If you're supposed to be a big deal for some reason, you could also have a vampire locked away somewhere. Though, when someone finds out, that would be real unfortunate for you.

So, given that the "stat yourself" thread died immediately after I finished statting myself as a Chronicles of Darkness mortal, I'd post it here.

Virtue: Righteous
Vice: Pessimistic

Aspirations: Shitpost Trump memes, Get a job, Gas the Kikes

Attributes:
Mental Primary, Social Secondary, Physical Tertiary
Strength 1, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Presence 2, Manipulation 1, Composure 4
Intelligence 4, Wits 3, Resolve 1

Skills:
Mental Primary, Social Secondary, Physical Tertiary
Academics 1, Computer 3, Crafts 1, Occult 2, Politics 2, Science 2
Animal Ken 2, Empathy 2, Expression 2, Persuasion 1
Athletics 1, Drive 1, Firearms 1, Survival 1

Merits:
Encyclopedic Knowledge (Occult) 2, Professional Training (Programmer) 3 (Asset Skills: Computer, Science, Crafts), Contacts 2 (Aviation Engineers, Computer Programmers), Hobbyist Clique (Occult) 2

>full-blown /pol/ meme magician

>>49383519
>Aspirations:
Should you really have an aspiration that is that short term and easy to achieve? Like, you effectively earned that beat by posting this.

>>49383519
>"/pol/ meme magician"
>Composure 4
Nice try

>>49383482
>Check the mega, under vampire, there is a book called 'Ghouls'. It has the rules for the different Ghoul bloodlines.
2e has Ghouls in the appendix.

>>49383586
Does it have ghoul bloodlines?

>>49383648
No. I highlighted that part to say "he means CofD" but I realized you were talking about the nWoD supplement Ghouls. I just forgot to erase that part.

>>49383400
>>49383482
>>49383586
Thanks for the ideas and pointing me in the right direction. I think having a locked up vampire in the basement could be fun, if I can find a way to avoid blowing him every time I thought about going downstairs.

The hope was to either have a reasonably powerful regnant and be invested with some of his status or, if I can manage, have enough usefulness and sway to be given equal rights under vampire law.

I don't mind being strictly mechanically inferior to the real vampires, but dealing with that on top of eating a level three bond just to be on scene might be too rough

>>49383583
Gives zero fucks about shills, won't be easily dissuaded by illogical arguments or social pressure. Sounds like a high Composure to me.

>>49383669
It's basically accepted, on the forums at least, that most of the 1st edition stuff is largely cross compatible.

The ghoul families stuff in 2nd includes mentions of using disciplines without vitae, using up less vitae to stay a ghoul, and other fun tricks that don't really exist in 1st

>>49383708
Being a /pol/ shitposter is the epitome of being persuaded by illogical arguments and social pressure.

>>49383716
I find that 1e in general had a lot of stuff that's serviceable, but wasn't that mechanically sound. For the most part it works, but that doesn't make it good. So as far as I'm concerned, if I wanted to make a character who was from a ghoul family, I'd just homebrew something similar to what I said. Make your own vitae each day and have a little more of it.

2e already makes it much easier to be a ghoul by making Disciplines cost normal. Though maybe for being a member of a Ghoul Family, treat them as having Blood Potency 1 for those sort of effects, and let them use the Disciplines they normally can't, like the one that ghouls animals.

Basically a shittier vampire that still bleeds.

>>49383811
>Being a /pol/ shitposter is the epitome of being persuaded by illogical arguments and social pressure.

Have you been on /pol/ recently, bro? It's been bombarded by shills, so the natives have learned to let shillposts run off of their backs like water. They grow thick skin, ignore the shaming tactics of cries of "misogynist", "racist" and "muh PR", and see right through the social manipulation tactics that work on normies.

>>49383872
Anon, /pol/ IS racist and misogynist. The whole board--and literally your character--also shill hard for Trump. Without even getting paid.

>>49383890
>Anon, /pol/ IS racist and misogynist.
And they give precisely zero fucks about it, which is why trying to shame them into stopping will never work. That's what a Composure of 4 means.

>>49383937
Being easily swayed into cultlike behavior and acceptance of a 'hivemind' isn't high Composure. It's low Composure. What keeps them from being shamed into growing up isn't high Composure, it's peer pressure. That's basically the entire point of cultlike groups to begin with. You're not thinking for yourself.

>>49383519
This can be a thing!

Virtue: Hopeful
Vice: Lazy

Aspirations: Move out of the country, Get published, Create a fanbase

Attributes:
Intelligence 3 | Strength 2 | Presence 2
Wits 3 | Dexterity 3 | Manipulation 1
Resolve 2 | Stamina 2 | Composure 3

Skills
Mental: Academics 2, Computer 2, Crafts 3, Investigation 1, Occult 1, Politics 1, Science 1
Physical: Athletics 2, Brawl 1, Stealth 1
Social: Empathy 2, Expression 3, Persuasion 1, Subterfuge 1

Merits: Area of Expertise (Expression) 1, Library 1, Good Time Management 1, Fleet of Foot 1, Hobbyist Clique (Expression) 2, Resources 1

>Mostly starving artist
That feeling when you realize you don't have enough skills in anything to be properly represented in world of darkness

I have a stupid question.

If someone makes you lose the 10-again quality on a dice roll. Do you also lose your 9-again if you are getting it from something else?

I would imagine you wouldn't keep the 9-again but I'm not positive.

>>49384381
Usually it is sort of treated like a tiered ability.

So them making you lose 10 again might be ruled as just taking away your 9 again, downgrading that to 10 again.

I'm in a mixed game (I know, stupid idea, etc) playing a human built with the Hunter rules. I'm feeling like I have too much experience at this point if that can even be a thing. Lacking the usual supernatural magic abilities of a real splat to dump exp into, and my covenant being one that lacks officially written endowments, I basically have skills and attributes to pick and am quickly becoming way more masterful in a dozen things than I think really seems right for the character.

What's some ways to burn up exp as a Hunter that isn't just becoming MASTER OF ALL TRADES and sort of edging other PCs out? Should I just ask if I can swap to a group with real endowments?

>>49384621
Non-Endowment Supernatural Merits. Develop psychic powers or supernatural luck powers out of nowhere.

>>49384417
Hmmm, I see. That's a good way of doing it. Thanks again for the advice.

>>49384637
I agree with this.
Supernatural merits are a good point sink. Even if they are the ones that don't make you outright psychic.

Otherwise, ask your ST to get you in contact with a hunter org with endowments. Or teach your teammates some tactics.

>>49383519
>>49384142

I don't think I reach level 2 in any attribute

>>49384668
I know I'm definitely not a 3 in any attribute.

>>49384637
>Develop psychic powers or supernatural luck powers out of nowhere.
Is Second Sight 2e or 1e? I know its getting a chapter in Dark Eras companion. A telepathic gun toting hunter might be fun, fluff it as supernatural power from the people he loiters around with all the time fucking with the head. One can only have to resist Lunacy or a vampire's Predator Aura so many times before it does things to a soul.

>>49384730
Second Sight is 1e,
but a few of the merits it created are in the core of 2e now. Like most of the psychic powers.

>>49384740
There's also going to be a bunch more Merits expanding on them in the new Armory book. They've posted Google Docs with the playtest versions of them on their blog.

>>49384844
In a book about armories, psykers are the last thing I'd have expected. I was figuring guns and combat magical items for various splats.

>>49384031

>fell hard for the "/pol/ is a movement meme"

Sad!

>>49384865

Well, it's less an armory and more a book about combat and violence, so it's a lot bigger in scope.

>>49383332

its not immunity it will prevent yoy from ever suffering stage 3 bloodbond for the most part.
Weakened Bond (•••)
You might be strong willed, or pure of heart. Conversely, you may be the sort of character who makes people cross the street when you walk by them. Whatever the reason, you are hard to bond. You simply don’t get attached the way other people do.
Prerequisite: Ghoul or Human
Effect: When determining the effect the blood bond has on your character, Willpower expenditures and social rolls, treat your bond as one step lower. For all other purposes, like blood sorcery for example, your character is considered bound at her full level. As a general guideline, this makes you immune to effects based on the way your character responds to the bond, but not on effects based on the way the bond affects your character.

Now that I've finished the tiny version of my Hunter org and a corresponding mechanic for an OP submission, time to expand them into a full homebrew.

Really won't take too much more. Just gotta double the size of their intro section, a 'hunter' area giving some examples, divide up the labor, give them status dots, and then the fun of stereotypes of other organizations.

Overall, hunter organizations seem like the quickest and most enjoyable little homebrews.

>>49384031
Man, you love Kool Aid, but I'm never going to buy it no matter how hard you shill.

Keep telling yourself you're not a sheep and just churn out those same tired old memes and keep calling everyone a cuck because you wanna follow the authoritarian figure.

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I'm rewatching Romeo+Juliet because it's a great movie fuck you and the Capulet/Montague feud (and how the whole movie has this archaic but modern thing going on) is basically inter-cabal politics.

For as often as R&J gets used for things like vampires and werewolves, it'd make great inspiration for a Mage (or Changeling) game instead. Especially the way they're presented in the Baz Luhrman film, where both factions have really distinct looks.

Then again, I think I did basically use Romeo and Juliet for a Changeling Freehold. Probably would have been better if I was more explicit about it, though I'm not sure how I'd handle the Bulwark.

>>49385955
>National Socialist

I love this term. It implies both that you are a commie and a fascist. The Nazis were really onto something when they named their shit.

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Anybody else thinks The Cat Lady and Downfall would fit well in the chronicles of darkness?

They are very dark, with a dose of badassness, which revolve around depression, suicide, eating disorders, madness and serial killers.

They also have a big supernatural tone, such as the Queen of Maggots, a spirit related to death somehow, which seems to hate those who kill, and sort of punishes those who try to kill themselves.

>>49379082
>>49379135
>>49379334
>>49379597

Kerberoi are different from Deathlord, but now there are no longer Deathlords in Geist 2e, in their place are now Cthonic Gods in the Underworld.

>>49387606
Take it to /pol/, asshole.

>>49377457

Anybody have V20 changing breeds on PDF?

>>49387606
>Until the Spanish Civil war, most socialists considered fascists to be a type of socialist, too

Nice to mention that, because in Spain before the civil war socialist too thought fascism was the enemy of socialism. The country had a few dictatorships before Franco and knew a bit about these things.

Now, get moving.

>>49387401
I don't know Downfall, but I played the demo of The Cat Lady and I saw a clip someone linked in a previous thread.
That game is pretty spooky.

Or maybe I played a different game by the same company? It doesn't seem to be the same thing from looking at these screenshots. Same art style, but it was different.

It was a thing where you played a lady and her friend breaking into an old apartment for some reason, and you ended up dealing with these ghosts. There was one puzzle of a woman sitting in a chair surrounded by mirrors, and you needed to reposition them and if you did it wrong her horrible ghostly face would scream at you in the mirrors.

I wish I still had the screenshots, but it's on a different computer.

>>49387606
>>49387639
>In practice, socialists of the time (and to this day) already were latching onto racial/nationalist appeals as a matter of political tactics anyway.
Oh, yeah, Sanders and the Democratic Socialism of most of Europe are totes the ones using racebaiting and nationalism.

>>49387401
Yes its a load of great themes to explore. Guilt Depression. Puzzle elements. with just enough kick ass to keep things from devolving into super sad forever emo.

I used the cat lady as the NPC who just took care of cats for a gangrle gangbanger. It was creepy both ways.

Running an NYC game of Masquerade. The players have decided on Camarilla neonates in a band together - which I'm more than down with, it could be fun - but I'm struggling to come up with good hooks to get a story started. I need a way to rope the group in and get them going. Any suggestions, /wodg/?

Party comp's Ventrue, Nosferatu, Malkavian, Brujah, and Ravnos, if that helps.

>>49377457
>Have you ever played as an antagonist?

Yeah, I played Apocalypse once, sure.

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>>49389464
>masquerade

>>49389492
I'd rather play Requiem, but I like Masquerade more as an ST.

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>>49389492
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1474129745309.webm

>>49389464
Aaaand whats the story? If i dont know to what you need to hook them id hook them to corpse robberin cartel in Mexico

>>49389464
One of them is an addict and needs to feed on a steady supply of people on the specific drug to indulge his addiction, so they become drug dealers.

>>49385483

It helps that Hunter has a super vast scope in its factions.

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Arising from Duat bump

>>49391227
Yeah, which is a little worrying for my submission honestly. I went with new mechanic instead of grand new diverse location and problem.

OP seems big on their locations these days.

>>49391428
>>49391227
I made a faction based on the Final Girl trope. They all survived slasher attacks, sometimes by family members, and now they're a support group that also goes a'hunting. They have an Endowment that lets them know the "story" of a monster and as long as they stay within the story, they can't be attacked. They also have an Advanced version of Small Unit Tactics that lets them Risk Willpower for others.
There's a bit of a subtheme that they're "too close" to Slashers, and without Hunting could end up being Slashers themselves. Their capstone Status is even getting a Dread Power.

>>49391737

Reminds me of a character I played in a legacy game spanning innocents to nWoD/ Think Gravity Falls mixed with American Horror Story/X-Files from childhood into adulthood.

It's not a very long story since the game fell on hiatus so mini-storytime.

As a kid I was a mind reader with Eidetic memory. While everyone else had their own merits. One had ghost ally that later made her a geist when she got older, another was a proximus, and one was a lucifuge in the making.

At first the storyteller got us to roleplay as kids during middle school and later become the scooby-doo gang. However part of my backstory is that he constantly uses his mind reading powers because although he knows how to read peoples emotions (high empathy) he fears rejection and saying the wrong thing. This means he's a bit of a creepy shut-in but oddly enough knows a lot about people.

As the story progressed we started "hunting" a creature that was giving everyone nightmares (it was a Beast). At first people just got listless but soon people became manical and/or suicidal. We get lumped into it because I mind read a classmate that was having suicidal thoughts because of abuse at home. She's been having nightmares that her parents fighting is her fault and that if she was dead then no one would be hurt. I tried to read deeper but the GM said that darker secrets required a better check but I didn't have enough willpower to read her again (burnt it all cheezing the teachers out of their logins to access medical records of a student that went missing).

Party goes on but I work with the GM and roleplay that because of my Eidetic Memory, the memories I read from others become my own. I know their someone elses, but that also means that I will always remember them. This gives me a cyclical flaw of Phobia, Fixation, and Nightmares. My phobia is of people I've read with dark secrets but my Fixation is on uncovering that secret. The nightmares come up when I mind read something really awful.

>>49392295

I read her mind and found out that her mother has been trying to divorce her dad to get with this rich real estate guy. However Real Estate guy has also been molesting the suicidal girl and the reason she feels this way is because she told her dad but the mother called her a liar because she didn't want to be found out as a cheater. The mother got exposed later about the affair but the man denies any wrongdoing and the mother is defending him and saying that the father told her to say she was molested to get at the mother because she filed for divorce and custody. I also find out that she's been having more nightmares about it in the similar vein of some form of monster saying it's all her fault (the beast using a nightmare).

Playing in character he's still a nerd but he wants to help the girl and starts developing a phobia and fixation on exposing the truth of Molester Moneybags and her wicked witch of a mother. I have nightmares that night about feeling powerless to stop her from getting hurt.

Next day in school the FBI are investigating the weird mania that has driven people mad and occasionally caused people to spree kill. Curious I read one of their minds but I get feedback like they detected my mind reading (they were VASCU). I notice this and as the one I read turned my direction I ducked beside the stairs at the entrance. I see them walk off and the woman I read say something into a walkie-talkie as they leave.

Then I noticed that suicidal girl was being dropped off by her mother. I took the chance to read the mother's mind and found out that she doesn't even care that her daughter was abused, it was all about getting into the pockets of the money guy.

I succeeded the phobia roll but failed my character's fixation roll. I roleplayed it that I became fixated on bringing the mother and miss moneybags to justice.

This became a hook into turning my character into a playable slasher (genius that acts like an avenger).

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>>49392648

At first I just used my stealth and computer skills to spy on their house after class. It slowly evolved into using mind reading on the mother to gain access to their wi-fi and security camera passcodes. I used a computer check to install a virus on their computers and spy on them through their cameras, emails, and browsing history.

I start stealing emails from the mother and moneybags that shows their collusion. Then I create a backdoor that allows me to see through their computer's camera as well. It took a lot of research rolls and computer checks for an 11 year old nerd to do all this but it was worth it.

Sadly for my character he caught an email that moneybags was going to visit their house when the father's away on work on Saturday. He starts planning for everything to be ready to record them if anything bad happens.

Something really bad does happen.

While spying on them I notice that the mother is sitting in the living room but I don't see the man. Switch over to the PC in the girls room and pic related happens with the moneybags man.

We didn't have to go into details, my character saw it and froze as he made sure to store the stream both on the girls computer in the background along with a copy on a usb stick. He wanted to call 911 but he knew he couldn't explain himself if he did. I had taken a hit to morality (going to 5 for my powers and giving myself derangement for it) I roll degeneration and fail it. Nightmares become Waking Nightmares and now I need to roll willpower whenever seeing the girl, mother, or moneybags not to fall unconscious.

I switch over to the living room feed and see the mother knock on the wall and just turn the TV up to drown it out. Waking Nightmare triggered and I failed the roll. I fell into a enraging nightmare as my head hit my keyboard.

Nightmares come in full focus this time, the monster (beast) was chasing after me tormenting me about my weakness and inability to stop it. I fail the degen roll yet again.

>>49387606

Lol you think your so smart. Who's posts got deleted?

>>49393102
hey keep telling the story!

>>49391428

I'm sure you'll be fine, the submission is mostly to see what you can do with just a thousand words of material. The economy of words is pretty important if you want to take up freelancing.

Where do I find the powers Forgemasters get? When I google it all they have is the fluff on the wiki.

>>49393680
Legacies: The Ancient, page 72(for their general fluff), 78(for spells and attainments)

So, anyone willing to share the Ready Made Beasts, let us fight over stupid shit again?

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>>49393742
That's in the main book? If it matters were not running 2e. All that's on that page is pic related and similar general rules stuff

>>49393994
No
>Legacies: The Ancient
It's in this book
The book called Legacies: The Ancient

>>49394015
Oh! Okay cool, I'm a noob, thanks.

>>49391228

who dares intone my name

>>49394185
Atamajakki! First and Last Mummy fan! Tell us if a buddy comedy game through the ages would be fun with a Vampire, a Purified and a Mummy (potentially a time Mage somewhere along the way)

>>49394537

I can only say that Vampires make absolutely stunning cultists and that some of the bloodlines seem oddly tailor-made for Mummy use. Purified I've never been super fond of (I've never really clicked with anything involving the Shadow), but I think some of the other Immortals content might be sneaking into the Dark Eras Companion.

Mira Quicksilver Serpent bani Mnemon

Eclipse

Essence 1
Willpower 5

1 Charisma
5 Manipulation
5 Appearance

3 Strength
5 Dexterity
1 Stamina

1 Intelligence
3 Wits
3 Perception

Brawl 1 f
Martial Arts 5 f
Presence 5 c s
Performance 5 f
Occult 3 c
Investigation 1 f
Dodge 5 f
Awareness 2 f
Socialize 5 c
Bureaucracy 5 c
Linguistics 1
Sail 5 c

Merits:
Martial Arts
Artifact 5-Moon Veils the Sun, Silken Armor
Language: Seatongue (High Realm: Native)

Intimacies:
Defining:
I am Anathema, a Deceiver

Major:
The Immaculate Faith: Hatred
My sister: Admiration
Respect Me!
Vanity

Minor:
Residual loyalty to House Mnemon
My circle needs my guidance!

Limit Trigger: Being disrespected

Charms:

Masterful Performance Exercise
-Impassioned Orator Technique
-Graceful Reed Dancing
--Battle-Dancer Method
-Thousand Courtean Ways
--Celestial Bliss Trick
Respect Commanding Attitude

Harmonious Presence Meditation
Listener-Swaying Argument
-Excellent Friend Technique
-Threefold Magnetic Ardor
--Awakened Carnal Demiurge
---Rose-Lipped Seduction Style

Demure Carp Feint
Elegant Weapon Repertoire

>>49396161
Wrong thread

>>49396174

Or is it?????

No. No it is not. Did the Exalted/oWoD connection even last for a year?

>>49396402
Yeah, at least two years (the Hunter book that referenced came out in '99 and exalted proper came out in 2001.

>>49394582
> Vampires make absolutely stunning cultists
Have they ever explained how cults form in the first place? From what I've read, there isn't actually anything stopping the cult from doing whatever the hell it wants and violating its regulations left, right, and centre, with the sole exception of waking its mummy up. Cultists only stay loyal due to religious indoctrination and reaping the benefits from cooperation with their mummy, and for vampires neither holds. Am I wrong?

>>49397148
>there isn't actually anything stopping the cult from doing whatever the hell

Having a very angry meteor-throwing undying god slap the shit of everything in a mile radius counts as "nothing stopping them" now? You don't abuse your Arisen master because they can very easily unmake you and gladly go back to bed.

As for why a vampire might join a cult, it's easy: they get a free herd, while the Arisen gets a high priest who will still be around a century or two from now.

>>49389479
I was completely incapable of enjoying Apocalypse precisely because I was supposed to sympathise with the group that caused all of their own and everyone else's problems to begin with, and would happily do it again if given the chance. Seriously, how the hell did the splat stay popular given that?

>>49397148

>Have they ever explained how cults form in the first place?

Sybaris seems to soften people up into wanting to worship the Mummy when it doesn't want to drive them screaming into the night, so that probably has a hand in it.

>>49397148
>From what I've read, there isn't actually anything stopping the cult from doing whatever the hell it wants and violating its regulations left, right, and centre, with the sole exception of waking its mummy up
Totally true, but if they go off the rails and the mummy wakes up and sees that they're dead men. And they can't stop the Sothic Turn from coming.

>>49397179
>As for why a vampire might join a cult, it's easy: they get a free herd, while the Arisen gets a high priest who will still be around a century or two from now.

I'm playing a Mummy in a mixed game and this is literally why I chose the vampire to replace the octogenarian WWII veteran High Priest he had before

>>49397198

why do you spoiler all of your posts, anon

It's pretty much a win-win. "Here's a bunch of subservient mortals, they're all yours for massive gulf of years between my Descents. Don't scare too many of them off, keep them saying the right prayers, and tell me what the fuck I'm up to right now when you see me five centuries from now and have forgotten all of this."

>>49397179
I was primarily talking about people simply walking off on the mummy.
> a free herd
Eternal servitude in exchange for a weak benefit? Yeah, no.
>>49397187
Well, that explains it.

>>49397232

Is it really eternal servitude if the person you serve isn't around to impose on you for centuries at a time?

>>49397254
Yes

>>49397269
>>49397254
They're vampires. They live in a world of servitude anyway.

>>49397254
Yes.
Four out of five clans have disciplines making hunting and/or herding trivially easy, and the gangrel can learn them too. Herd is one of the weakest merits out there, and for an elder it's all but completely useless, as they're either competent enough to never have problems with feeding or can't feed on humans at all. You're talking about an elder (who, by the way, must also sleep for decades at a time, in case you've forgotten) having found nothing better to do with himself but watch over a cult that's not even his own (and no, you don't get to object to this one). It's silly. And even if we're talking about a relatively new vampire, well, he's going to grow too potent to be constrained in a cult, and herd's still mostly useless in any case.

>>49397333
I just want to note that this is the first time the word 'elder' has been used in this thread

>>49397333
And hell, forget "useless": hunting and/or herding on your own takes away less resources than eternal fucking servitude to a cult does, so even if herd was the most valuable merit ever, it'd be still the most stupid trade-away ever.

>>49397350
Stop writing like this.
What about it?

>>49397232
>Eternal servitude in exchange for a weak benefit? Yeah, no.
proposal:
better advantage = mummy
>strix are in town
>someone is attacking our covenant
>vampire hunters
wake up mummy
all problems gone

>>49397380
That was the first time I used spoilers in this thread, bite me. Point is, no one was talking about the vampire being an elder. You are the only one who took that direction. Eat cock.

>>49397385
> Strix
Don't they have the power to instakill mummies for no cost? Some help that would be.
As for the rest: decades and centuries wasted on serving a cult are better spent building up your own power base.

>>49397427
>As for the rest: decades and centuries wasted on serving a cult are better spent building up your own power base.
>serving a cult
vampire can become (nonmummy) head of cult
cult is his power base

>>49397427
3 out of 5 of the covenants are already devoted to serving a higher vampire or other being.

>>49397446
Except he's not really free to do whatever he wants with it, being forced to be a religious authority who must follow certain regulations and keep the cult cultish, and the benefits are weak or nonexistent. It's a lose-lose situation for the vamp.

>>49397468
Which one's the third? Ordo? Pfft. Nonsense.
LeS and Invictus members have much more freedom of action and reap much greater benefits from acting in their structures, providing support for each other to the degree unachievable in a mummy cult, even if you count the mummy. Holy magic and oaths make for more useful boons than having an angry amnesiac summon a meteorite for you once a decade. It's not just about servitude, it's about the degree of it and the benefits to compensate for it.

>>49397186
The eco terrorists who justifiy killing hundreds of civs each year during their frenzy, because their tag line is humanity brought it on themselves. Its worse when the furfcks don't even own their own bullshit.

>>49397409
seriously knock it off

>>49385147
Thanks. That'll help me out a lot.

>>49397566
I was fine with them being eco-terrorists (though their ridiculous inefficiency does make them look even dumber than they already are), it's literally everything else they do that bothered me, what's with slaughtering all their allies and indirectly serving their own enemies.

>>49379969
It'd be fine if those merits were [also] available for heroes, to compliment that "have the same genesis" thing.

>>49397223
>why do you spoiler all of your posts, anon
Because spoiling honestly makes people more likely to read a post, since you page down a bunch of shit you don't care about and see that black bar? You check it out of idle curiosity.

>>49397693
That's actually very clever.

In the last thread some vampirefag was saying that Mages are humans and can be manipulated by a Vampire becuase Vampires spend all their time doing that.

Is that actually true?

>>49397741
I'm sorry to break it to you anon.
But yes.

>>49397693
>>49397717
Clever yes annoying as fck hell yes

>>49397717
The power of literally ten years on this fucking site. My big two digit anniversary of my first post is coming up soon. There's no goddamned escape from this place, even if your life changes.

I've got W:tF question, maybe someone know the answer. Can you call sacred hunt on a dormant/1-2rank spirits? Would that be the equivalent of sheep eating grass or a fox hunting for rabbits? If you can do so, what's stopping the players from eating dormant trees, rocks, lesser buildings for infinite and easy essence?
I do not really like idea of werewolf eating spirit of grass for essence

>>49397641
You're talking about the war of Rage and letting the white howlers assfck themselves. I can see yah that. should we talk about how they're all brain dead and need spirits to do all their investigations for them?

>>49397780
>Clever yes annoying as fck hell yes
Sorry anon. I only do it when I'm drunk, which isn't an excuse I guess.

>>49397801

I still got two years before that happens. Yaaaaaaaaaay

>>49397808

The wolf must HUNT.

Weak, immobile prey is not a hunt.

>>49397808
Depends on how much you want the ST to hate you

>>49397775
how...?

>>49397801
>>49397817
Two more years for me too. Fuck you and this fucking place, honestly.

>>49397808
I thought that while there are individual spirits for animals there aren't individual spirits for grass spirits and stuff. Instead of a single "blade of grass spirit" you might have a lawn spirit or even something much larger and potentially much more dangerous.

>>49397882

Well you see, your mage is a human being, with these things called "emotions" and "wants." In fact, being mages, there are several things they want A LOT.

Anything that has emotions and wants can be manipulated by someone who knows how to push the levers. Like, you know, a vampire.

>>49397896
> quantifying non-animal life
Ah, my favourite subject.

>>49397901
Mage are way above human being. They have phenomenal cosmic power and I really don't think a vampire talking to them would be enough to control them...

especially because the mage could just like combust them?

>>49397901
Don't listen to this one. Vampires have no more leverage over mages than they do over other suckers. They have auras and disciplines, but they can be resisted with gnosis, and mosquitos' "normal" social prowess is greatly exaggerated, anyway.

>>49397936
> especially because the mage could just like combust them?
Combusting everyone that comes your way is a quick method to end up murdered in your sleep (yes, even if you set up a spell to combust anyone who tries to do that), and that's before you get the equivalent of a court martial with the sentence of summary execution.

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>>49396161
> 1 Charisma
> 5 Manipulation
> 5 Appearance
I see what you did there.

So, a former Hierarch gone mad from betrayal is claimed by the spirit of a frozen mountain(known for all those killings a while back, and is believed to be home to wendigo). Assuming the Claimed can still use Awakened magic for what ever reason. On a scale of 1 to your god is dead, how screwed is everybody?

>>49397896
Spirits are weird, is the easy answer.

Mote spirits of grass probably exist, but they are like... spirit babies. They barely count as life, and no one but a Republican Pure Wolf is going to get mad at you for aborting it.

Once they get big, they would probably be a spirit of the lawn, field, patch, whatever. The blade of grass just ain't important enough. Once you have eaten a few of your spirit cousins, you probably can justify being a spirit of 'grass' instead of a spirit of 'this blade of grass'.

>>49397946
True. But I mean, imagine if the vampire has something the mage REALLY wants, or knows how to get it. Obsession is a central theme for Mages, and vampires (especially older ones) tend to know or have some pretty cool stuff.

Would it be an everyday problem? No, there aren't enough vampires and mages rubbing against each other for it to be an everyday situation.

But then again, not every Mage who meets a vampire has Forces arcana, so 'combust them' isn't always a solution.

Plus a few new vampire disciplines have some of that new school CofD 'good luck resisting this' stuff that could easily screw over a Mage that doesn't have defenses in place.

Oh you don't have a mind shield? Sorry, time for eye rape.

>>49398345
good thing we got a system in place to deal with dick waving

>>49398345
> imagine if the vampire has something the mage REALLY wants, or knows how to get it
So they'd be like anyone else who has what a Mage really wants? You're introducing into this equation special circumstances that have nothing to do with mosquitoes and merlins.

> not every Mage who meets a vampire has Forces arcana, so 'combust them' isn't always a solution
> implying a Mage worth his gnosis can't murder you to beyond death with any arcanum at all

> a few new vampire disciplines have some of that new school CofD 'good luck resisting this' stuff that could easily screw over a Mage that doesn't have defenses in place
I liked how 2e made vamps much more potent, but isn't that a general trend for the ed? Don't mages have new tricks their own?

>>49398576
What're we talking about, Clash of Wills?

>>49398639
CoW's been there since oWoD, has to be something else.

>>49398638
Mage wankers have to also be Batman fans. I'm sure of it, all evidence points to this.

A gnosis 5 mage would easily beat a newly awakened mummy, even if the latter goes with meteor spam right off the bat, and amount of sucking decrepit dicks can prove me wrong.

>>49397597
Make him

Seriously, why would anyone play something other than Mage?

>>49398718
Well yeah. Mummy is 1st edition. It needs a buff.

>>49398702
What? Batman's ability has always been plot armour and never actual preparation, and mages don't even need preparation most of the time, with their shtick being versatility.

>>49398735
I have no idea what mages are like in 2e. Hell, I'm telling you that a 1e mage can easily beat a 2e mummy, screencap this.

>>49398738
Same arguments for each.

>But X will just figure it out and win in the end!

It is the same meme.

>>49398749
Mummies are never getting a 2e.

It is nothing against Mummy, just Chris and Dave personally dashing Atamajakki's dreams.

Because DaveB is a Beast.

>>49398758
What's there to figure out about either mummies or mages? I'm talking about raw power, of which mages have more, and versatility as in ability to answer to unexpected threats, in the field of which mages just have no competitors (aside from SEs, but come on).

>>49398770
Aside from meteorites, what's good about mummies, anyway?

>>49398824
I'm not the guy to ask.
But it seems like the cool aspect is that you sort of play the game's power level in reverse.

You start off totally OP, and fall in power during the campaign as you struggle to get free of your servitude.

So they can get a lot done, they usually have a lot of servants to call on (since they probably have a cult), and their powers are on the strong side (because there aren't a lot of them).

Plus the game encourages flashback play, and playing in other eras (including the far future if you want to play in some other sothic turn).

Did the VtR 2e Dhampyr/Ghoul splat drop already? Not seeing it in OPP's Monday Meeting Notes.

>>49398824

It inverts the traditional power scale in that you start play at godlike power and then fall off, and also pretty much every player character has a subservient organization working for them. It also enables you to play through pretty much any point in human history with the same characters, which super fun for a history nerd like me, and the background mythology is vibrant and meaty.

I love it deeply.

>>49399026

VtR is currently the slowest-moving 2e line, and Half-Damned is three books down the way. We shouldn't be seeing it for a good long while.

>>49398782

That's what always bugged me about Mages. They're both the most powerful and the most versatile, and they have no weaknesses. Being physically human isn't a weakness when everybody has Mage Armor.

Now Changelings, they got screwed over in 2e. They have no innate healing and take aggravated damage from cold iron now.

>>49397826
>>49397833
Thx anons. Actually I'm GM, trying to run my first W:tF game. I'm thinking of essence economy and how hard should it be to obtain it. Whitout essence you can't use most gifts, usually can't shapeshift, can't reach. Without it you don't have "money" to pay spirits gathra so they won't even talk to you. And the only reliable sources of it are sacred hunt (which will propably cause revenge from the other spirits in the same umia if done without good reason), eating wolfs meat and humans. And having a locus ofc.

>>49399116
>Now Changelings, they got screwed over in 2e. They have no innate healing and take aggravated damage from cold iron now.

Welcome to the Vampire club

>>49399104
I've always liked the idea of mummy but I could never come up with any ideas for stories to base an entire chronicle around.

That and I feel like there should be more lore based reasons for a mummy to be in a group with other mummies and awake at the same time.

>>49399146
Vampires were ridiculously buffed. They now take bashing from bladed weapons and Disciplines are much more powerful.

>>49399199
I haven't read mummy, so that second part always gets me as well. What is their group dynamic?

Is it just that their cults all had a nice orgy that one time, and shared phone numbers?

>>49399199

I'm personally fond of "you did a great task together back in Irem and were all granted the Rite together as reward." If that's too fancy, you can always just say they share a cult.

>>49399116
Ambush, bullet to the back of the head. What they did in 2ed is really smooth act the power scaling. In combat turns they can get one or two good kicks. With some prep they're on par with a lot of splats. With ritual time, the small limits from before no longer apply.

Under1ed Mages were just humans in combat, with a fancy gun and fancy armor. but with ritual casting any starter blasted any problem out of the water with three day weekend. Can't really do that with 2ed ritual casting. All magic rolls are capped/ have a limiter at some point, and more time just makes it easier.

>>49399229
>They didn't start as weak splat because the devs were taking a first crack at the system

>>49399250

Mummies - ancient middle management turned into eternal slaves for inhuman masters. Arguably the only splat with an existence worse than vampires and a background more horrid than changelings.

>>49399250
Hmm thats actually pretty good, I might pilfer that as an excuse to finally start a pbp game.

>>49399232
They...don't really have one if I remember right(it's been awhile since I've gone through the core book) they don't have any coterie esque groups so you have to kind of engineer a reason like in >>49399250

Reasons to be awake is a little easier as long as they are together, the four reasons I can remember that wake them up are:
1. some idiot tried/suceeded at stealing a relic from you
2. Your cult performed the elaborate 'Alarm clock' ritual
3. The judges want something from you
4. It's a sothic turn. Go nuts

>>49399261
The real problem with Mages when compared to other monsters isn't so much their strength, but their ability to do stuff that no one else can deal with, like the Time and Space Arcana. But that's only a problem if you're doing crossover shit.

>>49399116
>They're both the most powerful and the most versatile, and they have no weaknesses

>no weaknesses

>insane lust for discovery and power
>kindred circulates rumors about some fucking relic goblet or something
>local mage group goes absolutely bananas about it and distracts them
>picks off the weakest and most insecure mage in the city
>vinculum

>>49399342
>weakest and most insecure mage in the city

Still more dangerous than your average PC vampire

>>49399342
Yeah but that 'insane lust for discovery and power' depends on the players being willing to actually roleplay that out since it's not really in the rules.

>>49399232

Shared Cult, bound together by Fate (an actual force in Mummy's cosmology), vague memories of each other that nobody can remember were of love or hate, worked together in the best, etc etc etc

>>49399328
They can, but they've really got to earn it. The I turn it into a frog blurb is pretty helpful in that regard. All the splats got a power stat. and everyone has a resistance trait. Plus there is clash of wills when you got to opposing powers.

Why is Demon: The Descent absent from the mega?

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>>49399362
dangerous is a matter of perspective

>>49399397
Yes, though it should be noted that 'I'm supernatural' is not by raw an 'opposing power'.

So there are still powers out there where there is no rolled resistance, and the rules have nothing in place to save the poor soul hit by it (this is rare though).

I mean, clash of wills seems like a pretty rare situation, outside of two people trying to fuck the same poor mortal.

>>49399423
There is no I Win Button in Chronicles. That is the opposite of the design space the devs have been going with.

Powers reference a resistance trait when targeting another character, and splats get a bonus based on there power stat. Otherwise the ST is being a dick. This doesn't matter in environmental effects or self buffs

>>4939934

Some of the things mages inherently focus on is discerning truth from fiction, lies from deception. The weakest Practices from the Arcana are Knowing and Unveling for a reason, to say nothing of the broad investigative abilities of Mage Sight and Arcana like Space, Time, Prime, Fate, etc.. Mages, as group, are also highly organized (largely for purposes of safety) and possess great institutional memory and resources about themselves, their history and overall CofD.

Mages do not just go stupid bonkers and rush into something because of unsubstantiated rumors, no less when the source of such information is vampires. They are obsessive, but definitely not stupid or impatient.

However, trying to deceive an entire cabal or consilium is certainly a good way to ensure your purportedly immortal existence will come to a quick and painful end, either by mages themselves or the local prince trying to prevent a needless war or risk masquerade breaches. Heck, about 1 out of every 5 mages specialize is powers like fire and sunlight, they're particularly self-righteous, and have no problem seeking you out during the day.

>>49399494
Actually Vampire has several (albeit simple and weak) powers that have no roll or resistance.

>>49399506
>all humans always work together

This isn't ascension. Mages are humans. and humans can be really smart and really dumb.

>>49399506
>itt: mages are the most insular community in CofD, know everything about anything, and have a loving trusting relationship with every other Mage
>there is never any in fighting with Mage

>not stupid or impatient
Nobody is more patient than a Vampire. Forever is a long time and there's a reason the number one contingency plan for a Kindred's problem is "outlive it".

>no problem seeking you out during the day
What's stopping the Vampire from seeking out a Mage during the night? They need sleep too and the leeches are pretty damn good at sneaking up on prey.

>>49399506
You seem to be implying that Mages will work together seamlessly and without any sort of bickering. I'm just saying if a small newbie cabal heard of some fancy artifact they wouldn't immediately go report to their superiors. They'd probably look into it themselves first.

Hell, if even one member of the Cabal was told about this hypothetical fake item who's to say the Mage would even tell his cabal? Mages are all about hubris and arrogance and sharing stuff like that doesn't get them ahead.

>>49399397
>>49399423

Mages have a lot of new mechanics that allow for instant hits without any possible Defense (i.e., sensory range spells) and Withstand-resisted effects that ignore supernatural power traits as resistance (and with an exceptional success, ignore withstand entirely).

I believe novice mages are more equally matched in terms or raw power, but certainly not versatility, to other splats. However, the Arcana are so broad, with higher-level Practices almost exponentially increasing options and potential lethality, that the power curve for mages often well exceeds other splats. Mages who have mastered any of the Arcana (with the prereq's needed to do so) are truly frightening even in a world of nasty creatures of the night.

>>49399538
>>49399550
Told you guys. They are batman fans.

Whatever scenario comes up, the Mage always has every advantage, and whatever opposition has been set up has taken none of their advantages.

"Yeah, but don't worry. The Mage will show up during the day, while the Vampire is sick with vampire flu, all his ghouls and followers just left for burning man, and the building the vampire was sleeping in is already on fire. It is an easy win!"

>>49399569
and even so if they drink vampire blood they're completely and utterly fucked

>>49399569
Mages are just a nasty creature of the day.

>>49399569

Withstand negatives to casting roll. or attack roll def applys. Reach Paradox? I'll be waiting. I'm not saying that mages aren't powerful. But people always over state their effectiveness or underplay their weaknesses.

>>49399538
>>49399550

Try not thinking in such simplistic, binary terms. Nobody is suggesting that all mages are loving, trusting and work seemlessly together.

Nevertheless. they are not rubes. Their most basic powers are investigative and their social structures (cabal, consilium, etc.) are designed for mutual safety and provide substantial resources for investigation (e.g., athenea, lore houses, cabal, order, legacy, etc. relationships etc.), and like most any other being "in the know" in the CofD, would never blindly trust a vampire.

Further, Mage Sight and the lower level Practices similarly provide many means to resist (or at the very least force Clash of Wills) against power or effects meant to control or deceive them.

Mage are not omnipotent or omniscient, but the "release rumor of magic goblet and then easily blood bind local mages" idea is just plain stupid.

You don't have to be any kind of mage supremacist to recognize juvenile and impractical ideas that appear to be little more than the fevered imaginations of a anti-socal tween as applied to the default CofD setting.

>>49399657
>Further, Mage Sight and the lower level Practices similarly provide many means to resist (or at the very least force Clash of Wills) against power or effects meant to control

That doesn't do anything against Blood Bond

:^)

>>49399636
Withstand is subtracted from the final Potency.

>>49399572
Hey I like batman. but His is a story between two smart guys, trying to out smart each other. you know instead of rewriting the setting to suit your sides needs.

That being said both sides are dangerous with their own strengths and weaknesses. And thankfully we have a system in place that can mediate between the two.

>>49399586
>and even so if they drink vampire blood they're completely and utterly fucked

Tell that to a Master of Life or Death.

>>49397619
welcome. also another idea you can do is sell yourself out as a mercenary to the vampires. work for blood, then move on after two after being paid twice.

oh and do be paranoid of Ordo Dracul after all they can make you have stage three bloodbond in one feeding.

>>49399586

Why the fuck would any mage, no less one inducted and trained by an established order, just drink vampire blood?

It also takes three drinks to form a solid bond, and such mages (or their cabals, friends, Order, legacy and consilium) would notice something amiss shortly after the hypothetical first drink.

The viniculum is a great device against normal humans and weak supernaturals, but extremely impractical, and a veritable ticking time-bomb, when it's employed against other top supernaturals like mages, werewolves, etc.

>>49399691
its times like this I miss good old fashion blackmail as a means of controlling people

>>49399679
>Master of Life or Death

As discussed by Dave, you don't even need mastery to resist the effects of the blood bond. You also forget about the defenses provided by Mind.

>>49399691
I don't know. Why would a powerful mage suffer from cancer when any equally powerful mage could probably save her in a matter of a day?

Because plot, anon.

>>49399691
One drink is enough for extreme infatuation and obsession. Three drinks is mind break slavery no going back.

>>49399679
Pretty sure the nerd argument is about a novice mage and not a master.

How strong are new max disciplinescapable in vtr2e?

>>49399708
Don't be an idiot. You can't blackmail a Mage. A proper mage has no secrets or shames to hide from anybody and is a paragon of humanity.

Any attempts to blackmail will he may with overhwhelming force and obliteration. Dick.

>>49399715

Hey, you can do whatever you want in your chronicles. However, I thought the discussion involved the basic default setting premises and powers in the CofD, and not the "mages suck, so plot" rule.

>>49399712
Good point.

And Death Mages are Vampire Banes.

>>49399738
It also doesn't involve "Mages have no faults at all."

>>49399691
well those three drinks can be done on the same night. so the mage can have bloodbond stage 3 before his friends even realize he is gone.

>>49399760
Man, if Mages are so good at what they do, you have to wonder why the other supernaturals still exist at all.

Especially Vampires, who can't claim to be doing society any sort of public service like Werewolves.

You would think some Mage legacy would have just wiped them off the planet by this point.

>>49379969
>>49380068
I think we just fixed Beast. maybe make it so that Heroes are scions created spontaneously to hunt down Titanspawn and it should work.

>>49399778
Official Silver Ladder standpoint is that their days are numbered.
However it's still too much effort to make a serious attempt, and it'd need cooperation on an international scale.

>>49399785
What even are the current rules for Heroes? Are they just effectively mortal?

What are their special mechanics (I haven't made it that far into Beast)

>>49399730

Mages are definitely susceptible to all human foibles.

However, in order to blackmail a mage, the interested party needs information that could damage him or her in the mage community, a group that notoriously doesn't give a fuck what a mage does in his Fallen life so long as it doesn't impede other mages' investigation of the Mysteries or threaten them, such as involve the Abyss or a rival or dangerous faction like Seers (or vampires).

Where is this vampire or other creature obtaining such information that doesn't involve a major chronicle plot point? Also, as a matter of simple common sense and personal survival, trying to blackmail any major supernatural, regardless of whether they are a mage, werewolf, demon, etc., is just something that is bound to backfire now or later in a terminal and messy fashion.

>>49399801
You deal with the backfire when it happens. In the meantime, you have a mage in your pocket. Once again, patience is a vampire virtue.

If it blows up in your face, go underground, hide, wait, get your revenge again. Or just use the meantime to make sure the 'backfire' is little more than a slap.

Backfire is a fun plotpoint, but not always the end of a chronicle.

>>49399778
>you have to wonder why the other supernaturals still exist at all.

Mages are not all hunters, nor do they have any institutional or ingrained antipathy for other supernaturals, vampires or otherwise (this setting premise actually applies to the viewpoints of virtually all supernaturals in the setting).

Any particular mage might loathe and hunt other creatures, care not at all about them, or seek them out for mutual benefit or even friendship.

The fact that mages by the nature of their inherent abilities and their Arcana are not easily deceived or overpowered does not make them psychopathic murderers (unlike vampires and werewolves).

>>49399853
It just makes them kleptos and peepers.

>>49399830

Hide. From mages. Heh.

If there's one thing that most Arcana can easily do, and it's find things that don't want to be found. That is one of the areas that mages intentionally do indeed excel at above other supernatural groups. They are designed and intended to be the "detective splat."

You better hope that aggrieved mage has absolutely no friends, allies or anyone else concerned about him, or your vampire will have a short and painful requiem.

>>49399892
>Your vampire has someone powerful that has lots of allies and magic that wants to kill you.

This is different from every other night for a Vampire how?

>>49399871
>It just makes them kleptos and peepers

I'll readily concede the kleptos and peepers point, at least for most mages once Wisdom is challenged in pursuit of Mysteries (or enemies).

While vampires and werewolves have their beasts and rage, mages have their obsession for Mysteries. The focus and themes of the different gamelines are quite profound.

>>49399907

There's a profound difference in dealing with enemies from within than from without.

You know and understand the rules, powers and defenses against your own kind far more than outsiders, no less a group as versatile as mages.

I always forget that at 1am, there are only like four of us here.

>>49377457
>Have you ever played as an antagonist? (like playing as Pure
I haven't played one, but I like the Pure much more than the Forsaken, and would snatch the opportunity asap.

>>49399668
Blood bonding a Mage does not stop that Mage from destroying you utterly.

>>49400321
If they were capable of 'destroying a Vampire utterly' they probably wouldn't be blood bonded in the first place.

But if they get bonded, when their assault comes, it is just one more advantage for the Vampire. Plus, if you have someone in a Blood Bond, probably a good idea to use that time to further your leverage over them.

>>49399572
Assuming that the Mage is a drooling retard who stands no chance against muh vampires is literally the exact same shit you're bitching about right now.

>>49400579
Where in my post does it assume the mage is a drooling retard?

Okay, as a mage player, I have a dog in this game. Yes, domination is fantastically powerful. My mage got dominated once, but got a clash of wills later for breaking a vow he had made with fate magic. Never personally been bloodbound, but his friend has. To a daeva that got bound to his friend as well. Unhealthy relationship, that. Vampires and mages definitely both have their strong points. But my advice for dealing with vampires as a mage? Avoid them via Divination.

>>49400749
Don't worry, no one is taking any of this seriously.

Magewank vs Non-Magewank is just this thread's Skub vs Anti-skub.

How else are we going to fill 300 posts? It always comes back to arguing about Magewank.

>>49400604
>The Mage will try to take advantage of the Vampire's prevalent and obvious weaknesses.
>What? That's crazy! Of course he wouldn't do that!
So your argument of the Vampire winning relies on the Mage not taking advantages of their crippling day sleeping weakness, their fire weakness, and their social networks full of regular normies with no protection against mind-probing magic. Yet your side quickly gets upset whenever the situation takes place in a white room without these impossible to predict circumstances, talking about how it obviously doesn't happen in play. But if you're comparing one splat to another, you either go white room or you spend hours arguing about the countless circumstances that can potentially crop up over the course of a story.

>>49400783
Well there is your first problem.

My argument isn't that the Vampire would win. My argument is that arguing the Mage would automatically completely annihilate any Vampire that dares challenge him is wrong-headed.

I don't care who wins in any given scenario. But pretending that every Mage wins against every Vampire out of hand is silly. Especially in a roleplaying game.

We're in a thread. White Rooms are boring. I'm here to argue for hours about countless circumstances.

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>>49400801
>I'm here to argue for hours about countless circumstances.
Autist.

>>49399104
> you start play at godlike powe
But you don't. The very most you get is a meteor shower, and in terms of applications it's limited as fuck. Mummies are basically mages' retarded cousins, and I don't get why nobody acknowledges this.

>>49400887
No one acknowledges it because only Atamajakki plays Mummy. No one cares.

Just like how there are broken Geist builds. But no one cares, because no one plays it.

>>49400225

I hope we get 2e playable Pure soon.

>>49399342
> wanting to get something makes you stupid about it
Is this an Anglo-Saxon meme or something? I keep seeing Brits and Yanks repeat this silly notion, but I doubt that even they believe it, it's like a game of "I'll pretend to be stupid about understanding your behaviour so you'll pretend in your turn". I guess you have fun playing it, but it has nothing to do with objective reality, so stop using it as an argument, pretty please?

>>49400926
>Anglo-Saxon memes
Just call them White people.

Tips for a new Geist player? I'm in a game with two werewolves, so I decided to be Mr graveyard area controller who I modeled after scruffy

>>49400897

What broken builds are there for Geist?

>>49400949
I can't even remember now (once again, because no one plays it) but it was a certain manifestation key combo (if I remember right) that allowed you to pretty much deal 'tons of damage' in an area.

>>49399715
> Mage fans are all batman wankers obsessed with plot conveniences
> let's just say that all mages are stupid greedy kamikazes jumping at vampire blood for no reason and pretend that that's always been in the setting :^)

>>49400937
> Anglo-Saxons playing _the_ white people
Every time.

>>49400963

Sounds like boneyard and one of the keys

>>49400942
> graveyard
Why the fuck is everyone so obsessed with graveyards? Is it because nobody's read any further in that section of the book? Now, graveyard isn't bad, but it's not nearly as useful in combat as people for some reason think it is. In direct confrontations against other supers, shroud is the way to go, as it provides both defensive and offensive benefits to the point of sometimes being hilariously over-powered. No, really, I once did the math on a SE vs furry confrontation, with the former utilizing a shroud, and no matter how I did it, the SE came out on top. It's amazing how they aren't mentioned during power-wanks despite being so potent.

>>49401022

>>49400897

I recently learned of Project: Dogmat. I'm considering buying in on it since it's the first video in like a year that's piqued my interest.

What's the general opinion of it around here? I almost want to crowdfund a /tg/ mansion so we can jerk off in our own coven.I want a mansion but $500 is a lot of money and I can't be assed to spend that much on a virtual house.

>>49401022
I'm in a Ty with two werewolves. They are the direct response. Could you tell me more about shroud? As for why I picked boneyard I did it for more of fluff than power, since I'm by myself I don't have a krewel of any type and his background is being the "janitor" of a graveyard and his geist is a burly lumberjack

>>49399795
They have a few powers that make beasts a little bit less over-powered, bringing them down from the level of "accidentally squash their foes out of existence" to the level of "effortlessly murder their foes beyond death", and almost all of their powers are completely useless when not used directly against beasts; needless to say, they are completely and utterly impotent as a threat, and given that they are all strawmen for the writers they were never designed to be playable in the first place,

>>49401161
But how do we fix this?

>>49401767
What is the point of fixing a stillborn game? Why not pretend it never existed and move on?

>>49401903
>What is the point of fixing a stillborn game?
So you can actually play it?

>>49400963
>>49401014

I'm assuming Pyre-Flame Boneyard with a rage manifestation or something

>>49401903
Because it's nowhere near as "stillborn" as you people act like it is?

>>49399718
>How strong are new max disciplinescapable in vtr2e?

Eh. Decent. What vampires excel at are social/mental manipulation, and extreme violence.

As long as a vampire has vitae to spare, there really is nothing that compares to the sheer oomph of Physical Intensity.

>>49402154
Protean is great, and Physical Disciplines are cheaper than actual Physical Attributes.
Beyond that, in a straight up fight, Animalism's highest levels can utterly ruin someone, and Oubliette is the best way to protect your shit AND get rid of a pesky interloper.

Though I don't think he meant "how strong" in a physical sense to begin with.

Any news on the Hurt Locker?

Other than Daeva and Nosferatu, do the names of the vampire clans have any meaning or real world origin?

>>49401067
Since it's crowdfunded, and being done by Russians, it will probably never get done. Don't waste your money.

>>49402592
Gangrel is an old word, it means either 'vagrant' or 'unruly' and has an Old English and Scottish origin.
The others, nope.

>>49399342
>>kindred circulates rumors about some fucking relic goblet or something
>mummy cultists begin sniffing around your havens

>>49399409
Shut up Grant Morrison, you can't be a mage and a vampire. Pick one

>>49402791
Ventrue is old French and means pot-bellied.

>>49400897
>No one acknowledges it because only Atamajakki plays Mummy. No one cares
I play mummy and care and am not jakki. That makes two

>>49402952

Three, I run a one on one Mummy Chronicle for my GF and sometimes post about how I'd rework Mummy.

I really like how mageposters act like Mage as a community know 110% of everything about kindred: what they can and can't do, their weaknesses, their own politics, etc and the icing on the cake is acting like vampires know nothing about Mages even though there's probably vampires older than half the cabals on the planet

How to blackmail a Mage? The people around her. Her best friend for 15 years, her dog sitter, postman, coworkers at her shitty day job (mages still need to pay rent and buy food), etc. Far easier to blood bind them and the mage won't suspect a thing.

Assuming they aren't crazy paranoid and check to see if everyone they interact with has someone pulling a string but frankly that'd be exhausting for the Mage and a tired mage is a sloppy mage.

While doing some research I saw mention of what I think is a ghoul bloodline, the Louchet. I spent some time searching and hunting around but outside of brief mention in a couple spots I didn't find anything substantial.

Am I on a snipe hunt, or do these exist somewhere?

>>49403248
>I really like how mageposters act like Mage as a community know 110% of everything about kindred: what they can and can't do, their weaknesses, their own politics, etc and the icing on the cake is acting like vampires know nothing about Mages even though there's probably vampires older than half the cabals on the planet

Wait what? All I've seen in this thread are Mage-posters acting as if Mages are indestructible, never that they know everything about every vampire.
Don't make it worse than it is.

>>49403248
>Assuming mages have friends.

>caring about sleepers

Free Council pls

>>49403248
>Far easier to blood bind them and the mage won't suspect a thing.

Eh. But they will. That's kind of the thing about Mages.
They'll notice there is a supernatural effect on the people around them. In fact, they won't FAIL to notice it.

>>49403336
>>49403248
>Believing that it's mageposters
Oh come on, it's clearly people who hate Mage trying to bitch about Mage.

>>49403351
You're telling me if random mage A's fucking postman is enthralled to a vampire and acting no different at all they'll immediately suspect something is up?

If they can see auras (if that's still a thing) they'll immediately know what the blood bind taint looks like and what it means?

Go home

I think it boils down to who readily has more resources available to them.

How hard is it for a Mage to get their mana vs Vitae? Is the average kindred going to have more capital than a Mage? The average kindred certainly has more time than a mage

>>49403393
Who's friends with their postman?

>>49403393
An Mage who doesn't Mage-Sight everything is just asking for Seers to ram a gigantic cosmic dildo up their ass. So they Mage-sight everything.

>>49403393
How the fuck does random vampire A know who the mage's postman is?

>>49403393
Yes. I am.
Mages automatically sense if there is magic going on near them.
If everyone they know are going to start radiating "I'm mind-controlled", they notice.

They don't even have to focus on him to notice something is wrong. The moment the postman gets close, the Mage will feel something is wrong.

And no, they won't know exactly what a Blood Bond is. They WILL however know it's a mind-affecting power, that draws closely on the symbolism of Stygia.

>>49403413
>How hard is it for a Mage to get their mana vs Vitae?

For a beginner Mage? Moderately difficult.
For a min Mage? Relatively easy.
For a powerful Mage? Piece of cake.

>>49403650
>For a beginner Mage? Moderately difficult.
You can get 3 mana every 24 hours in exchange for a temporarily lowered physical attribute. Every mage can do this. Mana is piss easy to get.

>>49403034
My brother of Iremite descent. Sothic turn soon, fellow arisen.

Ok. To bring up aforementioned example: A vampire wants to fuck up a Mage's life by Blood Bonding everyone he is close to.
This will have two major problems.

Problem 1:
Finding out who the Mage is close to. Mages deliberately cut out their Mage persona from their normal life, to reduce the amount of magical fallout. You might know that you face the Adept Ironsoul, but finding out that this is also the human David Hendricks is going to be a bit tricky. Mages can attack people via their identities, and so they keep them hidden.

Problem 2:
Blood Bonds are a mystical effect. Whenever a Mage comes into proximity of something magical, they'll notice. One person in their immediate sphere having a supernatural effect on him might be brushed off. But when everyone close to him starts to radiate it, that shit will get investigated fast.
Blood Bonds would probably be closest to the Arcana of Death and Mind, which means that 2/5 starting Mages will have the capacity to notice what's going on, and most will pick up either Arcanum. But even if he doesn't, Mage society is built on support, so if he goes to ask a Mage friend of his for help, that'll most likely happen. Possibly even for free, since mages are secret-junkies, and just being let in on this might be considered payment.

And after they figure out what is going on, they can use the Vitae in the blood-bond victims to track the vampire, as soon as they dig up a Mage with Space, and then call in the local Sentinels to deal with that Vampire, for fucking with Mages. Most Consilia will approve of that, since they are mostly a Silver Ladder thing, and their doctrine is that Vampires shouldn't exist in the first place.

>>49403725
Compared to beginner Vampires "Oh, I'll just grab this passer-by for some Vitae", that is moderately difficult.

>>49403784
>Compared to beginner Vampires "Oh, I'll just grab this passer-by for some Vitae", that is moderately difficult.
Are you fucking serious? Hunting as a beginner vampire is way harder than a little self-harm you can do in the comfort of your own house. You can't just "grab a passerby", you'll break the fucking Masquerade if there are any witnesses nearby.

>>49403784
>Mages can attack people via their identities, and so they keep them hidden
I feel like this could lead to a really effective combination with demon powers if you had one as an ally but I can't figure out just how one could exploit covers that way

>>49403633
A mage with a Occult 4+ should know about Vampirism and their ghouls with casual ease.

Occult 4 is pretty much a complete understanding of demons too.

>>49403851
>little self harm
>lowering an attribute for an entire day

>>49403851
It's 3/day. A Vampire has no such limits. Scouring also weakens the Mage who does it.

In the long-term, I agree that a Mage has an easier time of it. But in the span of a night or two, a Vampire will come out on top.

>>49403882
Unless they botch a feeding roll

>>49403882
But Mages don't need Mana for most of their spells, whereas Vampirres do need Vitae

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>>49403877
>>49403882
>lowering a physical attribute for an entire day
>as opposed to going out of your way to stalk a mortal until they're alone, or hoping that you have some charisma abilities to seduce them without violence
>there is always a chance that something goes wrong, like failing to seduce or sneak up on someone, or other random events that you can't really plan ahead for
>you have to do this several times a night to get back to full unless you literally don't care about your humanity score, since mortals can only give so much blood safely
Yeah, fucking easy.

>>49403951
It's a good thing too since Blood Sorcery is way stronger than Awakened magic.

>>49403984
Lol what

>>49404037
Have you seen the shit one can do with Blood Sorcery? It uses Ars Magica rules basically. Shit is broken as fuck.

>>49403984
Given how OP this thread is suggesting mages are, cruac and theban sorcery must be broke. Is this from the core or that supplement that nakes their magic work like mage magic?

>>49402765
>Crowdfunded
>Russians
Oh fuck you're right. If I end up buying into it at all, I'll probably wait until it's much closer to actually going live. They're currently sitting at like 13 million and they'll get their server at 20m.
I might be doing a startup in the future and may or may not try this idea again if these guys fuck it up.

>>49404066
No I haven't, can you post examples? I'm not a mage or vampire fan so I don't know much sbout them

>>49404070
Blood Sorcery book it's a 1e book that the 2e Core says you can use.

It's like 30 minutes a ritual and has 5 Themes. Creation, Destruction, Transmutation, Divination, and Protection.

Protection 4 lets you remove mind control and undo the blood binding.
Transmutation 1 lets you just knock a vampire out as if the sun rose.
2nd dot lets you have extra vitae stored in yourself or willpower
Creation 3 just lets you will animals and chemicals into existence.

Most of this shit is a few Arcanum to normally be able to do.

>>49403961
Auras are pretty much an "I win" button for feeding, though, and orlocs and mekhets can pretty much never bother with ensuring they are alone with their prey.

>>49404155
Using disciplines while hunting kind of defeats the point.

>>49404200
u wot m8
How fucking come? First level of obfuscate can be turned off and on at will with no rolls and no BP cost.

>>49403877
> implying that a dot makes the difference for mages

Does the Kiss work on other splats?

>>49403650
Familiars make great mana batteries. If you have spirit you can just channel the appropriate essence to your familiar and have it give you mana in return. I'm not sure what the limit is but it's like having another hallow.

>>49404933
Rank 1 spirit has 10 essence capacity. It needs one/day to survive, and you lose one in the transfer. Meaning they're basically a free 8 mana

>>49404962
A spirit/ghost/goetia can normally gain essence once per day. Do you know if transferring essence counts towards the normal essence feed or not.

This thread more than any other makes me realize that no one in them actually plays these games.

>>49405071
They gay one per day by sitting next to something that represents one of their influences. You can create situations that give them new essence flows to feed on and they can outright steal it from other spirits, especially with you there as an intimidation factor

>>49405088
Well yeah. Say the thread has 60 unique posters.

Each person has probably played in half the lines, ran a quarter of them, but read/skimmed 3/4ths or more.

You're going to get people talking out of their neck all day every day.

>>49405096
Do they gay one from the gay werewolves?

>>49400579
No one says "no chance". But to say that it's going to be a clean-cut fight is silly.

http://pastebin.com/QDi7gpLv
i had a shitty idea for a dread power, what do you guys think of it?

>>49405847
So quantity of your enemies is inversely proportional to the individual strength of each of them?

>>49405687
If you want to talk non-clean-cut fights, then why not discuss how the Mage can blow somebody the fuck up from the comfort of their room?

>>49405892
To a point, aye. They've basically already been told that this is a power he has, in uncertain terms. He was said to have single-handedly mowed through a SWAT raid before fleeing, the details were exaggerated a bit(They had a not terribly sound source).

>>49405937
I've just woken up and realized that I just posted that entire bit without context, whoops. The dread power is for a hunter game, the party is going up against a slasher.

>>49405894
sympathy ?

Time for a new thread, yes?

>>49405997
Love slashers, always fun.

I introduced some friends to hunter using a party of roaming slashers. They just assaulted the house until sunrise, and then mysteriously left.

>>49406021
That sounds pretty fun, I might knick that idea. They've got a pretty robust safehouse so it'd be interesting to see them have to really duke it out on home-ground. The one time they had to previously they went "outside" where most of their defenses aren't actually at.

>>49406060
Don't forget, a smart slasher in the city brings a signal blocker. Most people these days don't even HAVE a landline. Don't want cops showing up until it is too late.

>>49406108
Technology is the best power

>>49406185
This.

Machine gun > knuckle claws

>>49403248
>I really like how mageposters act like Mage as a community know 110% of everything about kindred

Look at it this way, CofD vampires have most of the same basic weaknesses as the ubiquitous vampires from movies and television. Are you seriously suggesting that CofD mages, people who Awaken to see behind the curtain of reality, are inducted and trained in mystical orders than have been exploring the secrets of the universe for thousands of years and maintain meticulous records, and have access to easy to use powers to discover the most secret and hidden information, actually know *less* than your average tween horror fiction fan? In the world of mages, vampires have been so thoroughly explored and cataloged they are a downright boring subject.

Also, mages as a rule are obsessed and paranoid people. Their normal defenses and offenses are usually enough to deal with most threats, and vampires are no exception.

Does this mean that every encounter between a mage and vampire will result in victory for the mage. Of course not. However, using white room-type arguments, ignoring fundamental rules and setting, or assuming either mages or vampires will act willfully ignorant or will not use the full extent of their supernatural capabilities and mundane resources, is just foolish.

I tend to approach these subject as best suits a particular chronicle. When playing Mage, mages have the advantage, but when playing Vampire, as a ST, they similarly will have some plot protection and comparable advantages.

>>49401955
I doubt it, you can't cast rage through a boneyard

>>49406199
>mages as a rule are obsessed and paranoid people

I don't have a dog in the Mage v. Vampire slapfight, but I like how often "obsessed and paranoid" in TTRPGs (discussion or play) translates to "systematically prepares against lots of things using exactly the required effort" and not "blows a shitload of resources evading enemies that don't exist and chasing rabbitholes that go nowhere" like it does IRL.

I've basically never seen an "obsessed and paranoid" character actually feel like it because the players are unwilling to waste resources on a threat they know for a fact doesn't exist, or preparing against a threat in a way that makes no sense given its nature; completely missing the point of paranoia.

>>49406199
>When playing Mage, mages have the advantage.
That is funny, I would expect the opposite. Give vampires the advantage in a mage game so it actually takes some effort for the mages to get something done. A game that is too easy for the players is a boring game.

Anyway, as for how much Mages 'know' about Vampires, it does make sense for them to be sure they know quite a bit. Then again, Vampire makes a point that there are tons of rumors about Vampires, and Vampires feed into those rumors. Mages aren't a perfect network of information, there would be competing theories, and some of those theories would have the same problems as human myth.

Are Vampires hurt by garlic and crosses? Well Billy the Mage in Denver ran into one that was (because of a Bane), and so did several other members of his counsilium... They didn't write that down? That matches up with the myth of Vampires, but they were like 'naw, that was fake info'.

Mages probably have to struggle with the same fact or fiction problems as everyone else, except they have better means to test the theories and not get slaughtered for being wrong.

Plus, even 'knowing vampires' perfectly just means you know they freak out around fire, need blood, and are vulnerable to sunlight. Yes the sunlight weakness is a huge deal, but it isn't like there is a laundry list of 'facts'.

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Which Gameline can best accommodate for Mister Nobody?