/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General: Cultist Edition

>>49347613
>>49340476
Dual wielding does more damage than a two-handed-weapon barbarian without feats, especially before level 5.

Two-handed weapon barbarian does generally more damage with feats. Looking at you, GWF.

Two-handed-weapon barbarian can multiclass into rogue, however.

Just saying 'Two weapon fighter barbarian does way less damage' is plain wrong. There are conditions which change things, like the mentioned 'do you have time to rage before you get into the fight?'

Volos guide?

>>49347690
Volo's Guide to Monsters, the monster stats and monster races book coming out in November.

So, in the first big dungeon my players went to, that technically took place in an extradimensional plane, I had a "trap" that had 50 marked gold bars. The mark on each of them was a symbol of "Greed".

Originally, I was planning on doing a One Ring / Gollum thing with it, but both my players and I kinda forgot about them over time.

Now I want to bring these back up in game, but turn it into a whole Jack Sparrow-stolen-gold-can't-die thing.

How do I expedite this part of the story over the next few sessions, without just springing "oh lol u guis are undead now"

New beast masters are the best, warlocks the second best.

What improvement would you make to the UA: Warfordged race if one of your players wanted to use it?

>>49347712
Shit...Forgot to mention I had two players that each stole a bar and stashed them away in their inventory.

>>49347687
Actually, I'll have to admit that once you get multi-attack using a maul is probably a better option. Once you get lots of extra crit dice, using a greataxe might be the best option.

But before level 5, two-weapon-fighting is probably best.

And, naturally, berserker and GWF skews it towards two-handed.

>>49347712
Have them go into an environment where did and water will be scarce, and have them run out of supplies. Eventually they notice they feel thirsty and hungry, but never die

>>49347736
But what about battlerager :^)

Though also, a barbarian could also quite effectively fight with light thrown weapons if need be.

>>49347753
That's basically berserker lite.

Anyone used a blood hawk for a range companion? I want a bird and it seems like the best one that fits the "1/4 CR and medium size or lower" criteria.

>>49347712
When the players consume food, goodberries, water, or wine when out on the road or at a tavern secretly tell the two that the taste of the nourishment seems off. Graduate that tasteless, then to repulsive. At that point have them make CON saves to keep nourishment down. Give them permanent levels of exhaustion after that until the curse is lifted.

You do realize that if the players discover they are Sparrow-esque immortals they will do stupid shit. Unless they really really want to RP redemption then you will have to throw down so extremely heavy penalties that do not involve combat.

>>49347837
Most animals with at least a 14 are passable.

Actually, a barbarian with a backpack full of javelins with two-weapon-fighting feat sounds pretty cool.

>add rage damage bonus to thrown attacks with javelins
>multiclass into fighter for either:
Duelling - +2 to damage if you're careful about how you throw them. Works best if your DM lets you use the feat's 'You can take out two weapons with one object interaction' to split it up into 'Draw one, throw, draw one, throw'.
Archery - +2 to hit
Two-weapon-fighting: More damage on bonus attack.
Could also multiclass into rogue for sneak attack if you use daggers.
Could also multiclass into two fighting classes with the right fighting styles so you can get archery AND duelling.

Main issue is you can normally only draw one weapon at a time. Two with a bonus action as thief. Two with the TWF feat. Three with a bonus action and being a thief with the TWF feat.

>>49347889
Wait a second, a thief with TWF can draw four weapons with an object interaction and a bonus action, can't they?

Gee, try and find a use for that.

>>49347879
In strength, or just in general? A blood hawk only has 6 Str, but +4 perception, 14 passive perception and advantage on sight based perception checks. I would certainly like it to hold its own in combat, but do companions apply str modifiers even though beak says +4 to hit?

>>49347976
just in general a decent deal of the small beasts have awful stats.

>>49347999
Blood hawk has 14s in dex and wis, on top of the bazillion bonuses it gets to perception, and I like getting idea of having a flying scout. I guess I'd just hate to have it hide from combat all the time.

>>49347837
Ravens are the best. They make the best spies at least.

>>49347719
+2 Con instead of +1. That's really all it needs.

>>49347889
Trying to find out if this is actually valid. Probably not viable, so it sounds fun, but I'm trying to work it out.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/dagger-archery/
Says that the weapon is still a melee weapon. So isn't it a 'melee weapon attack' in that you're still making an attack with a melee weapon?
But
http://www.sageadvice.eu/tag/smite/
Then says you have to make a melee attack to make a melee weapon attack.
It's a little confusing, but by RAW it seems you can't add rage damage to thrown attacks, but that feels like a stupid ruling.

Thrown attacks kind of deserve rage damage. It doesn't really break anything.
Barbarians aren't supposed to be good at ranged, but that doesn't mean they should be completely hopeless at it.

what is wrong with 5e?

>>49348163
You're mixing two unrelated rulings together.

"Melee weapon attack" is a subset of attack rolls.
"Melee weapon" is a subset of equipment.

Rage refers to "melee weapon attack," the subset of d20 attack rolls made when you hold onto a weapon to strike at something, not launching the weapon or a piece of ammo over a distance.

RAW, Rage doesn't work with javelins. This is why totem barbarians are great because they have an easier time closing distances with Eagle and/or Elk features.

Javelins are weird because they are listed as melee weapons. This means features like Dueling that mention melee weapons actually add damage to them regardless of the type of attack roll you're making. However, when you throw a javelin, you're making a ranged weapon attack, not a melee weapon attack, even though a javelin is still considered a melee weapon.

>>49348304
>RAW, Rage doesn't work with javelins when thrown

>>49347736

Not really. With two weapons, you'd be dealing 1d6+STR for the first attack, 1d6 for the second. That's the same damage as 2d6+STR from two-handed weapons.

The difference is that you're spending a bonus action and potentially getting +2 damage out of your rage.

But in general, dual wielding for any class but rogues and fighters feels very clumsy and deals less damage than GWM. And that makes me angry, because dual wielding isn't supposed to be a sub-par fantasy for barbarians.

>>49348291
>Death rules are shit.
>Pets are annoying to deal with.
>Not enough variant races

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>>49348291
They removed the game aspect of RPG, I feel like I spend more time larping than when I play WoD.

5e feels like it was designed to be a spectator sport, watched rather than played.

>>49348291
Strength sucks for anyone but GWF paladin/fighter and barbarian. Heavy armour is underpowered.
Int sucks for anyone but wizard, somewhat EK and to a much lesser extent arcane trickster. The int save is almost never, ever used.
Charisma save is barely ever used, too.

Saves for each stat was a nice idea, but the saves don't cover a lot. Strength saves at least get some use.


>>49348304
That's what I thought. But really, I think it's deserved that Barbarian's bonus rage damage should say 'any attack roll that relies on strength'. Thrown weapons could use that little bit of love.

>>49348371
At levels 1-4, you won't have a lot to do with your bonus aside from rage. If you're a berserker, you should be using big weapons anyway.

+2 damage and having two attacks you can use on two different creatures is worth it. There's no real downside aside from not being able to use it on the turn you rage, and only being able to pull out one weapon at a time without feat.

At level 5 two-weapon-fighting falls behind by -0.5 damage. Still viable, but still has the problems.
If you don't feel like getting GWF early, it might still be a viable alternative if your DM lets you add rage damage to thrown weapons.

>>49347837
Talk to your DM about shrinking the giant owl to medium for you, and ride it as a ghostwise halfling.

>>49348374
well it is easy to mod death rules , you die when you have -con score, and races are easy to make, dont know shit about pets,maybe that they are like a second character
>>49348441
Quite funny that i saw a campaign focused in combat, they where playing like it was ragnarok or something like that
>>49348442
yeah, those st feel like are just occupying space,armour could be easily modded tho

>>49348442
>If you don't feel like getting GWF early, it might still be a viable alternative if your DM lets you add rage damage to thrown weapons.

But here's the thing: If the optimal way to use two weapons is with a feat, GWM also has to come into play. Which means the discrepancy in damage only grows.

>>49348603
It's not really the optimal way. It's just a possibility.

If you take the two-weapon feat, you get +1 damage on all attacks, essentially. You also get +1 AC and to pull two weapons.
If you take +2 to strength, you get +1 to hit, +1 to damage and +1 on strength related things.

If you assume that a barbarian keeps taking +2 to strength until they hit 20, it's probably not an issue.

Of course, if you want to play optimally, you don't level barbarian past level 5.

Why is booming blade considered "broken"?

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Anyone use the spellbook cards? If so, how good are they? Do they really streamline things for casters, or are they just more bookkeeping and paper to shuffle around?

>>49348910
I like them for making my own spell lists quickly. Sorting stuff by elements/levels/usefulness/etc.

I just had an awkward situation
>Player rolls to see if a guy who just appeared on their galley is hostile, rolls a 5
>DM tells him he is a grave threat and must be eliminated
>Player has his character charge this new guy, trying to incapacitate him or knock him prone
>Captain of the ship and the newcomer drop the character to 0 health in one round, nevermind we just stopped 30 gnolls from wrecking the captains ship
>turns out the newcomer was harmless
>Player who rolled for perception feels slighted, by being lied to from a roll that wasn't even a critical failure
>another character who's close to his is no longer comfortable remaining on this ship
>Other party members don't care

Was the DM or the player justified here? I'm the guy who's character no longer feels comfortable, and honestly considering walking from the table, seeing as that was pretty much my only interaction with the DM through the whole 2.5 hour session.

>>49348869
It's not.
For a rogue, it can be powerful if the rogue somehow obtains constant advantage. Otherwise, it's a trade-off as they only get one chance of triggering their sneak attack.

For an EK, it's a direct upgrade at certain levels, but only certain levels. And even then, it's not a massive upgrade.
At other levels it's a choice.

For clerics, they have to find some way to get it in the first place. It's definitely betterthan their cantrips then, but generally clerics don't rely on their cantrips much anyway.
For sorcerers, wizards and bladelocks... They have to be in melee, duh. Bladesingers trade multi-attack and multi-+intdamage proc for it.
For normal warlocks, eldritch blast is better.

>>49348961
Did he kill the character, or just knock him out?
Seems like he went overboard in his 'failed roll description' and then stuck to his guns. Makes more sense to give a neutral response than a strong negative response if someone fails an insight /investigate /perception check they instigated.

>>49348961
Why would a failed perception roll identify someone as a grave threat?
The DM shouldn't decide how a player's character should react to something. Saying "he must be eliminated" is telling the player what their character feels.
The character might misidentify them as threatening, but might not immediately attack.

If the failed perception roll was like 'you think you seem the gleam of a weapon' then that's okay. Because it leaves the player to think what their character would do if this newcomer is flashing weapons and seems very shadey.

>>49349041
He was at zero health. My character came running and got him stabilized with a medicine check.

I just think its not right for a player to be punished that harshly for acting on bad information that was given to them, with the exception of a critical failure.

To me, a fair peception roll result would have been "He's a dragonborn, you haven't familiarized with enough dragonborn to be able to determine his posture or intent"

>>49348961
1) The roll should have been insight, not perception
2) Critical failures don't exist in the rules
3) You should talk with your DM and the rest of the group and set clear rules about whether failed checks can result in misinformation, or just lack of information.

Hey, I'm new to D&D and I just wanted to know if there was anything else I can do to prepare for my first game, and what to do during, besides reading over the rules.

>>49348291
Rules menutia like >>49348163 in a "streamlined" game.

>>49348304
I think I recall thrown attacks not counting as ranged attacks in some sage advice or FAQ. But I might just be misremembering...

There are existing archetypes where a spell is the centrepiece. For example, Necromancy gets an augmented Animate Dead, and in 3.5 Swiftblade got extra benefits from Haste. Can you think of any archetpyes you'd like to see built around a particular spell? Or any spells that you could ssee an archetype built around?

>>49349433
They don't count as "ranged weapons" (equipment type), but do count as ranged weapon attacks (type of attack roll).

i.e. Archery fighting style doesn't apply to thrown weapons because it says it applies when you use a "ranged weapon."

The first two bullet points of Sharpshooter work with thrown weapons because they say "ranged weapon attacks." The third bullet point does not because it only says "ranged weapon."

>>49349072
There should not be anything as a "failed" perception roll. A dm should roll on behalf of the player in secret or use their passive. Then give the player the results. Also ascertaining a threat is insight not perception.

>>49348961
this was posted like yesterday but by the player who said he was gonna leave the game I think...

>>49349552
This gets complicated when players have features like the Bard or Monster Hunter which allow the player to add dice to a roll after seeing the roll but before knowing the result.

>>49347861
I was planning on undeath in the form of, if they die, they are dead permanently with no form of redemption. At least, that's what a cursory examination by a Cleric of some kind would be able to tell them if they chose to research it.

But let's say they are essentially immortal until the curse is lifted. What kind of shenanigans can I expect and how can I head that off or prevent it?

>>49349577
Yeah he posted it, but he didn't articulate it quite as well because he was still pissed from the session. As a result didn't get much of a response as to whether he or the DM were being an idiot.

>>49349493
Mage hand
>Master of the Unseen Hand

Color Spray
>More spells and abilities for a majestic goddamn fabulous wizard

Grease
>Just because

>>49349493
A fighter archetype built around Unseen servant.

>>49348961
Failed perception/insight rolls should get responses of "you can't tell", not false information.

>>49347687
Without feats on a barbarian, we assume you've got to 2-shortswords for 1d6 + Str + 1d6 vs a Maul which is 2d6 + Str

So the question becomes - is it better to roll once for 2 attacks or twice?

>>49349552
Probably the best way.
Passive perception tells you what you'd passively notice. Players have to choose to actively check things otherwise or be prompted to do so.

I'd like to do DM secret rolls for perception, but taking the power away from the players is a bit naf.

It'd be nice if there was some valid way to fairly tell lies about what a player sees, but honestly most people shouldn't be hallucinating. You'd have to actually make the players hallucinate to do that.

So I guess 'Neutral not very useful but still true information' might be a good thing for low rolls.

>>49349751
Twice.

2d6 > 1d12 by like a percentage point, on average.

>>49349751
You're forgetting rage damage.

Rage damage at lower levels gives +2 to every attack.

You get 1d6+1d6+2+2+STRMOD for shortswords.
2d6+2+STRMOD for maul.

Rolling twice is generally better. You can kill an enemy and then move onto the next.
There are some rare situations where rolling only once would be better - Where you have to do maximum damage in order to kill something before it has a turn. You might still miss, but you're much more likely to reach maximum damage than if you make two seperate attacks.

>>49349802
>>49349751
Oh, and, similarly, doing two attacks gives you a vastly better chance of hitting at least one of the attacks. Two seperate attacks are much more likely to kill a 1 HP mob.

However, there are also effects like Guiding Bolt which only apply to one attack, so it might vary sometimes.

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>>49347641
Have you guys been diligent in organizing and running your games?

I'm going to update my Play-by-Post games RIGHT NOW holy shit I'm fucking slothful

So my DM is using an alternate healing system that basically makes my song of rest not work/basically never work(we need a healer's kit to spend hit dice). Should I ask for something to replace it? If so, what should I ask for?

>>49349886
I probably annoy my players reminding them to update their sheets, make ASI/feat choices, asking if they understand how their new magic items work, checking on who will be attending, etc. so we don't have to take any of our session time making adjustments.

>>49349663
he was a bit of an idiot DESU but understandably so. if I spent a session being ignored and a dm basically false flagged me over nothing I'd feel pretty frustrated too. the DM just sounds like he isn't interested in y'all's characters or else isn't as into you two as people as he is the others. if it were me I'd just walk away but I'm not one for compromise or being personable

>>49349700
Rogue magic trickster is kind of the mage hand one already

>>49348961
Talk to the DM about it, if they don't admit that it was weird/shady and say they won't do it again then leave. Perception would be to notice if he was armed, insight would be to tell if he was going to make a threatening move or had hidden intent. Either way a 5 doesn't deserve a "he is a threat, kill him" vibe from some random guy, unless that guy is like pretending to be a crazy demon in disguise or something.

>>49349493
Maybe a Monk with Spiritual Weapon that can also be used to flurry.

>>49350080
This is more of a tipping point. In an earlier session we unfortunately had a lot of slaves we saved get killed by gnolls. The DM let our level 2 wizard use dimension gate without a scroll to pull a healer from miles away to the ship to resurrect the important slaves.

This is also the second session he's heavily favored the other two players.

>>49347719

I'd beat the player with a tube sock full of quarters and see if they still wanted to play it.

>>49350006
It should still work.

Song of rest does not expend hitdice, as does casting healing spells with warlock slots or healing using the 'healer' feat.

Would it be better for a Variant Human War Cleric to take Magic Initiate(Druid) for Shillelagh or Martial Adept for some Battle Master maneuvers like Commander's Strike and Rally? Of course I suppose I could eventually take both, but even then which would you take first?

>>49350308
Oh, right, I remember this.

This is the one where the DM berated everyone for letting some slaves die when their ship was filled to the fucking brim with gnolls that somehow weren't awfully threat-inducing and were just annoying, right?

>>49350344
Someone getting the 'inspiring leadership' or whatever it was called temporary HP buff feat sounds better than getting battle master's rally.

All the characters are the fucking same. If the game is to be interesting you have to roleplay and make decisions bassed off the fluff and the characters weaknesses or everybody is just playing the same fucking character that changes the labels of the numbers for each class to do shit. Min-maxers that metagame and play like the characters know their ability scores are fucking swine.

>>49349751
Some enemy's have a 'buffer' for attacks, where any single hit has damage taken away from it. So attacking twice lessens the damage further.

Just look at paladins with their -3 to the damage of any hit.

>>49350384
Yeah, somehow every single slave got slaughtered but our characters emerged unscathed.

>>49350413
Sure, that makes sense. So would you say it's better to get Martial Adept over Magic Initiate? I mean the maneuvers seem real handy, but if I can get WIS to damage with Shillelagh from the get-go I don't need to worry as much about STR, right?

>>49348442

IMO Int's better for AT than it is for EK. EK has a better variety of saveless spells, where as AT has to go for Illusions (Int DC to discern as fake) or enchantments.

>>49350470
Depends if you're using melee a lot.

If you are, it's a good choice.

The one that gives everybody in the party a generous helping of temporary HP is very powerful in parties with more people, though is probably better for a charisma user.
Martial adept doesn't really feel worth it.

>>49349493
How would you do Swiftblade in 5e?

>>49350470
I wouldn't even bother with martial adept as a war cleric. It's only worth it for characters that already have superiority dice, like a bunch of the UA fighter archetypes.

>>49350526
Yeah, only just realized Adept gives just 1 superiority die.

>>49350501
Quite often the DC doesn't come into play for illusions, I find. Especially in combat where it takes an entire action.

EK has war magic, but then I've just realized - Booming blade doesn't care about your spellcasting modifier.

I can't remember if absorb elements uses it, but green flame blade does. Overall, they might be fairly even if the fighter doesn't waste all their spell slots and reactions on 'shield'. And they probably will.

I suppose it'd be wizard>AT>EK then.

>>49350519
Not him, but I'd probably just go with a bladesinger

>downloaded grimoire since I wanted to use it offline
>couldn't figure out how to use it even after installing github

any tips, lads? It's a .zip so if anybody else wants it, it'd need to be through some other source

>>49350576

>not important for combat

sure, if you're not using something like phantasmal killer, but one of the rogue's great strengths is his out of combat exploration abilities, where illusions might even mean the difference between life or death.

if you even take green flame blade (since your cantrip selection is so limited) then it has some use, but it's much easier for an EK to not take any spells that require Int at all. It's not my preferred way to play, though, but it's definitely possible.

>>49350502

I only like Martial Adept when I already have maneuver dice from something else. I think it'd be great on a Monster Hunter, for instance.

>>49349493
Prestidigitation. Just various ways to make it better until it makes you a utility beast.

>>49350561
And it's a d6 that never gets better

>>49350684
Monster Hunter is the true "Champion" archetype. Simple, effective, and gets big dude with big sword fluff that is much better.

>>49350697
Prestidigitation is so ambiguous that the only real higher level spell I would consider along the same conceptual bounds is wish, but obviously there's a lot of shit between the two.

I'm having a really hard time trying to imagine how you would really expand on it without just winning the game with a cantrip, but one thing that comes to mind that I think could kind of work is a generalist wizard archetype that has features more about getting a little more out of your low level spells or something

>>49348442
>Strength sucks for anyone but GWF paladin/fighter and barbarian

And grappler builds. A bit niche but rather powerful in the right circumstances.

Would a feat that simply stated

"Two Weapon Master: When using two weapons, attacking with your off hand weapon doesnt use a bonus action. You may only attack this way once per turn.

In addition, when your off hand weapon is a knife instead of attacking you can instead increase your AC by +1"

>>49351022
A grappler build should utilize some levels in barbarian anyway, really. Otherwise, it's not really worth the sacrifice. It doesn't absolutely suck if you're a non-GWF fighter or paladin, but it'd still be suboptimal unless you multiclassed fighter-rogue or something. And then, you might as well go barbarian-rogue.

>>49350658
Depending on how the DM does it, there might not even be rolls to check illusions.
Going around town using 'disguise self'? If there's nothing off about you, nobody has any reason to investigate you. If you're pretending to be someone else, deception checks might prove more important.

Phantasmal killer is quite late in the levels, and it's not a massively great alternative to simply just sneak attacking someone, but the range and potential damage over time might pay off if you know a creature's saves aren't going to be toogood.

My main reasoning for putting EK below AT before was I was thinking about utilitizing cantrips with war magic. The problem with this however is a) they'd be better to go charisma and grab eldritch blast and b) Booming blade needs no int.
So, yes, EK can definitely avoid int almost entirely.

AT still doesn't get extensive use of it, but I'll certainly say it's more than EK.

>>49351177
>>49350658
>my main reasoning for putting EK below AT before
Should've been >my main reasoning for putting EK above AT before for requiring int more

>>49351145
I'd probably allow it, but I'd change the wording a bit to include "as part of an attack action". It kind of falls a little too much into mandatory to justify two weapon fighting for non-rogues, but I don't think anyone else really has much reason to two weapon fight as is

>>49348943
Theyre useful if you only have 1 PHB and dont wanna wait while people constantly check their spell efects

>>49351177

>there might not even be rolls to check illusions

Yes, but when there are (i.e. when you need your illusion to stick) it'll be against your saving throw DC as determined by your Intelligence. It's also important for (I think) every enchantment spell, which is the other big part of your repertoire. You MIGHT be able to get away with dumping Int as an Arcane Trickster, but I never would and would never recommend it.

>grab EB

I would never grab EB as any of these classes. A fighter will do better straight up attacking and a rogue needs to use his sneak attack.

Any suggestions for feats for a Variant Human Wizard?

>>49351282
Observant if your Int is odd.

War Caster if you'll be using a lot of concentration spells

Alert

>>49351282

Alert, War Caster, Resilient (Con/Dex), Magic Initiate

>>49351331
>>49351352
Went with Observer, got 18 INT.
Making a loli wizard who got cloned wrong and doesn't remember everything.
Thinking of having her be full chuuni.

>>49350340
It requires expending hit dice to activate, and it is costing us 5 silver/hit dice(assuming we have access to buy a healer's kit which we haven't for like 3 sessions, and at the current rate still won't for like 3-5 more)

Has anyone tried that Intiative variant from the DMG where you use 10+Dex Mod?

>>49351282
war caster or resilient (con) would probably be good, but there's really no shortage of feats that are good for a wizard

If the new Beastmaster's animal companion can take ASI's alongside the Ranger, would you allow the Ranger's companion to take a feat?

20th revised ranger tiny rat companion could kill 8 trained human guards in under a second

>>49351252
Obviously a rogue won't need EB unless your DM houserules that spells can sneak attack. However,
>a fighter would do better straight up attacking

Eldritch blast could outdo a fighter's attack. I wouldn't recommend it as a staple worth using all the time if you don't get the 'close combat specialist' fighting style, however. +1 to hit, no disadvantage at 5ft.

Agonizing blast. Repelling blast.

This is best compared to a crossbow expert fighter, I suppose. Assume crossbowman takes archery.

>EK with EB
May fire X number of times, each dealing 1d10+CHA MOD damage. +1 to hit.
At level 7, may then attack as a bonus action. May use a shield while doing this, though that'll affect the bonus attack.
Can use repelling blast to push back enemies.
Deals force damage.
Other warlock features, especially 'hex' can help out here, and the two level 1 spell slots can be used for 'shield' every short rest. Though, -2 HP.

>crossbowman
1d10+DEX MOD damage. +2 to hit.
More initiative.
Better dex saves.
Might be able to use light armour later.
May use sharpshooter, if they decide to get that feat.
Deals piercing damage.
Gets later fighter level features (mostly more feats).
Longer range, normally.
Still has a bonus action.

There isn't massive benefits to using EB on EK but the EK can multiclass quite easily, given they won't really need the extra attacks if they have good cantrips.
If you want to compare EBing to BB/GFBing or melee weapons, that makes things even more confusing.

>>49347976
It applies Dex

>>49351661
>>49351252
Meant to say crossbowman can fire X number of times, too.

A normal fighter using weapons rather than cantrips is reliant on not multiclassing.
A EK using booming blade or GFB could probably go multiclass, too.

But yes, it's not some sort of 'MLG pro build', but I'd call it viable.

Magic initiate for hex and eldritch blast would never be worth it since you don't get agonizing blast.

>>49351650
Some feats seem reasonable. Alert, Tough, armor feats, Durable, and Lucky.

>>49351733

Charger!

>>49351661

The problem with Eldritch Blast is that using 4 attacks that all get modifier to damage is always going to be better than getting 4d10. 1d8+Mod is probably better than 1d10 straight up.

>Agonizing Blast/Repelling Blast

You COULD do that, but then you're multi classing into Warlock to do this while denying yourself Extra Attack (4), and you could get better results with just Booming Blade or straight up regular attacking. This is assuming a Dex fighter too, not a strength melee fighter who can use a Greatsword and smash things with the +10 GWM modifier. Then it's not even worth comparing lol. It also doesn't include magic weapons.

The crossbow comparison is silly too, because why the fuck would I eldritch blast when I can shoot 5 times for 1d6+15 damage a hit (not including magic weapons). I don't think there is any world in which I'd ever use EB over my extra attacks feature.

>that bit about magic initiate

I'd rather take MI, not get EB, but grab Hex for an extra d6 on all my hits without sacrificing my extra attack (4) at level 20.

Regarding SKT, is it possible for someone on Roll20 to make the game, then make someone else (i.e. me) GM, so I can DM it for my friends?

>>49352035

Yes.

>>49351651
Seems appropriate for a level 20 character.

>>49352049
Is anyone providing this fine service, and if so, how might I contact them?

>>49351651
Is the rat's name Splinter?

>>49351968
It doesn't really feel worth going GWF when you're an EK. If you use GWF tactics, you're ignoring war magic. War magic isn't the best, but it's nothing to scoff at.

Sacrificing extra attack (3) (which gives four attacks total) isn't a big deal. Sure, it's powerful, but you still have four eldritch blasts at level 17. The other issue is you're not likely to be playing at level 20 for awfully long anyway. It's generally not too good thing think too much about level 20 abilities unless your DM is taking you on a magical level 20 adventure to do something crazy at the end of your campaign. Not to mention, you might just die.

Sharpshooter isn't a straight up +10 damage boost. -5 to hit can be quite a big deal.

The crossbow comparison is mostly so that you can compare to someone else who can blast things from ~100 feet away.

Going full-on attack with GWF is obviously going to do more damage, but there's a different deal to that. EB is giving utilities like doing a barely-ever resisted damage type, knocking back enemies, using hex more than once a day and being open to multiclass all over the place.

The main problem with multiclassing is along this route you end up with way too many bonus actions to choose from.
Still, extra attack (3) is something that'll barely ever be seen in play, and you'll have four eldritch blasts per cast between level 17 and 19.

I'd rather take BB/GFB/Eldritch Blast and then only go up to level 7-ish on EK, then go roaming. More exciting.

>>49352236

>You're ignoring War Magic

You don't really need War Magic. In fact at later levels you'll still do less damage with it, I think. But you can still go GWF WITH War Magic. They're not mutually exclusive, after all.

>-5 to hit

-3, you have archery. In a damage competition though, Sharpshooter wins every time, and even if you're not using it your damage is still on par.

>barely ever resisted damage type

Sure, but how often is slashing/bludgeoning resisted by creatures after you get magic weapons?

Even at level 17, I'd still rather Booming Blade or green-flame blade so I can use GWM with it for more damage, as well as getting the mod damage without having to spread myself thin in order to pick up the Warlock multiclass. Like I said, as well, while you CAN dump Int, I don't think you SHOULD, because while most of your spells aren't super great (evocation spells typically won't out damage your attacks) you can pick up some nifty "every school" spells and dumping two fireballs on a group of enemies who have disadvantage on the saving throw is still pretty strong.

>>49352111

Just pay for it yourself, fag.

>>49352297
GWF isn't so great with war magic. They both use bonus actions potentially, and if you use BB/GFB you'll only get two great weapon attacks.
There are times EB would be doing more damage, though. When physical damage is resisted (even sometimes magical weapon damage), when you're not in range to use your melee weapon and at certain levels (7-10, 17-19) it may actually do less damage with just attacking normally depending on the AC of the enemy and whether disadvantage is being applied to both the EBer and GWFer or not. Of course, the GWFer is going to always win out hands down if they're against low AC targets, have advantage, can get close, etc.

If you do lose out on some magical weapon benefits or can't find a wand that boosts EB attack, you can always use magical shields.

Also, Eldritch blast has +1 from that lightdarkunderdark feat I mentioned right at the start, so it's -4 in comparison, not -3. GWF would end up being -6 in comparison.

Nothing wrong with taking GFB/BB and using it at the prime levels (1-4, 7-10, 17-19) where for a sword-and-board type it would always out do normal attacks, without even extra effects.
But, there really isn't as big of a penalty to multiclassing.

You're trading some of the later features for other things. If you're focusing on EB, you don't need extra attack.
Indomitible, extra feats, more EK features, another action surge.. There are some good features, but you'd also be fine taking from other classes.

>>49352457

A lot of that stuff is really situation. Great Weapon Master's bonus attack is EXTREMELY situational and doesn't improve EB's case.

Moreover, with two attacks with GWM you're getting +30 damage off. That's almost as much as EB does at level 17 without even including the damage dice from Booming Blade/GFB and the Great Sword itself.

>If you're focusing on EB

this is would be workable probably but I just don't think it's that great. Especially since you're talking about something from Unearthed Arcana which you might not even be allowable in your game.

>>49352297
Oh, and, if I recall, there's probably at least a dozen things that resist against magical weapon physical.
Definitely quite a few more than force resists, but it's just a minor benefit.

>>49352559
When you have lots of attacks, and advantage, Great Weapon Master's bonus attack is much more likely to trigger.

Of course, it's not really worth investing in as much if your DM doesn't allow for it. It's still possible, but you'd probably grab BB/GWF and keep Eldritch Blast as a ranged attack when the party wants to stay away or before you get to charge in instead of a staple attack.

And, again, GWF would have a much lower hit chance with that extra potential damage. Even moreso if you have disadvantage, less so if advantage.

It's less about comparing damage, and more about comparing utility. And to this end, I think they're both on a similar level. They just play different functions. The main downside to going down the EB route is that you'll probably end up doing less damage, but you sacrifice that for quite a good range of benefits.

>>49352640

>ranged option

I'd just rather pick up a bow and javelin. I think that's better than dirtying my pure EK levels with gross charisma casting warlocks.

>comparing utility

I'd rather pick up Ritual caster or levels in Wizard for the stat synergy and the continuing spell slot progression. Fighter's the class that really has the time to pick up feats like Ritual caster too.

Either way one of the great advantages to EK over battlemaster is that while Battlemaster has more damage and is better at fighting EK's spells will give it some out of combat utility.

So I've convinced my DM to let my bard "become" a changeling(he has no backstory due to just being a guy who lived in the woods and traveled around), under one condition. I have to something spectacular with it.

I'm thinking of staging my kidnapping and playing a "temporary character" while the party goes through hell to save me, only to reveal that it was for nothing because my character likes to fuck with people. Other than that, though, I'm kinda blank on "spectacular" things I can do only because my character is a changeling. Any ideas?

>>49352764

>I was being a dick for no reason!!

Maybe the person who your bard is impersonating gets kidnapped. The party bumps into him one day and drags along some confused person who's playing dumb, only to go on a rescue mission after he gets kidnapped because they think he's your character and they've got a grudge.

Maybe he just gets kidnapped because they think he's your character and your character feels a sense of remorse so you try to trick the party into saving him by making them think they've got you. Either way talk to your DM. Definitely don't just make them go to hell to save you and then "It was just a prank, bro!" them. That's fucking lame.

>>49352726
You can't get things like 10ft pushback on every standard attack through feats. You can't get extra spell slots, just maybe a single spell to use once a day. You could go rogue and get sneak attack to use with that bonus attack, and some of the other nice rogue features. It might be a bit MAD to use charisma + dex to fight with, though, although you should have at least 14 dex anyway. The main concern with going rogue is you won't really get so much use of cunning action or uncanny dodge.
You could even go paladin for the auras. If your party doesn't have one, getting 7 levels in paladin for giving your team immunity to charm and + CHA MOD to all saves is a big one.
The deal is you can do all of this with minimal impact on your damage output, as eldritch blast/BB/GFB will still be scaling.

If you want to go sword and board/handcrossbow and board EK, you might as well multiclass out. You really don't need those extra attacks when you could be getting all sorts of other benefits. GWF is a different case and archery is an odd one, but I'd take it over going pure fighter sword and board.

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After Dungeon World broke my heart, I want to start publishing classes for D&D.

So tell me /tg/, since I'm out of the loop. What base classes in D&D are considered too weak, what ones are considered too op, and what ones are considered just right.

Thank you for your time muh ninjas.

>>49352829
Yeah I guess I didn't put too much thought into that one. Mostly it was something I came up with off the top of my head.

>Maybe the person who your bard is impersonating gets kidnapped
Thanks for the advice though, I may actually go with that idea.

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>>49351386
>Making a loli wizard who got cloned wrong and doesn't remember everything.

jesus, that's multiple red flags rolled into one. Is she also half-demon and a CN assassin?

>>49352846

>10 feet push back

you're a fighter why do you want to push them back

>extra spell slots

magic initiate (Wizard). Note that going Warlock doesn't give you spell slots either.

>Dex + Cha

and some Int and Constitution so you're not a total puss too.

>Cunning Action or Uncanny Dodge

I don't know what we're discussing anymore but even if you don't use Cunning Action ALL the time having the option to use the Disengage or Dash is still better than not having it.

Same for Uncanny Dodge.

>Paladin for the auras

Yeah that shits tight m8, but I wouldn't go EK and Paladin, I'd just go Battle Master or Purple Dragon Knight.

>You might as well multiclass out

That's just not true. Having more attacks works better with Action Surge, and Extra attack (4) will be better than using a cantrip at level 20 and from 11-17. You'll also get more ASIs to pump those stats and grab neato featos to increase your out of combat abilities. I'd much rather be Sword and Board 20 than Fighter 10 other shit x, personally, unless that other shit is a Wizard.

Even then, if you want to go Sword and Board you want enough levels to get Warcaster as well as having a good attacking stat, decent con, and probably a fine casting stat. Going into Warlock doesn't even get you spell slots to use on your Shield and other EK spells. It also cuts you off from giving yourself Haste on demand. Or Fly..or so many other awesome spells.

>>49352918

Out of all the things I quickly typed in that post it was probably my favorite idea. It'll do well to characterize your dude too. A moment like this could really deepen a fairly shallow character.

Just make sure that you introduce the character you'll be playing temporarily organically. Otherwise it's not going to be a surprise at all. Work with your DM on this, he'll be your best friend.

>>49352923

I think the idea of a clone gone wrong could be a decent character. That loli stuff is kinda "eeeehhh" though.

>>49352923
>>49352989
Haha, not entirely serious. But I'm going with cloned wrong and doesn't remember everything. I just use loli to refer to fictional girls, not in a sexual manner. She'll be a necromancer, though, since it's easier to have other people or magic do things for you instead of doing it yourself. It's for a game I'm DMing, I'm making characters for the players to optionally choose from.

>>49353073

>she's a necromancer

that might have been the least reassuring thing you could have said oh god

>making characters for the players to choose from

has this ever been necessary? I wouldn't even bother. It'll take some of the fun out of it.

>>49352989
The more I think about the logistics involved the more I fall in love with the idea. I'll basically end up having to play two versions of the same guy, and they're all just going to assume its GM imposed trickery, or that I've been magic'd or some shit. It'll be a wild ride for sure, thanks anon.

>>49352953
>why do you want to push them back
So many reasons.
Environmental hazards. They're getting too close to your mage - they won't ALWAYS attack you. They might have no melee options, so you can push them away and attack them at range. As long as you're ahead of your party extra-squishies, it doesn't matter much.
>extra spell slots
Warlock gives you two level 1 spell slots that work with siheld and regenerate on a short rest at level 2.
Two good castings of shield every short rest, while you save your per long rest shield uses up.
Magic initiate only gives you one a long rest that can only be used on one specific spell.
>uncannydodge/cunningaction
These are multiclass choices. Since you don't really have to stick to fighter to get extra attack with cantrips, you can potentially go up rogue or paladin or whatever.
>EK and Paladin
Yeah, I think I'd rather just go up paladin first, and then EK would take too long to be useful.
>having moreattacks works better with action surge
But you will have more attacks with action surge, because you have EB/GFB/BB.
In total, extra attack is only really better on 9/18 of the EK levels, and cantrips are generally better on the other 9/18 EK levels.
The ASIs are nice, but you'll still get some, and the more ASIs you get the less important things you'll be using them on.
>haste, fly
Even if you can only get one or two of them, it's kind of a big deal. Still, there are enough benefits from going up other routes to balance it out.

>>49353111
No, but it's a new campaign setting and I thought it'd be a good example to at least look at for some direction, among other characters.

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>>49353154
>>49352953
Oh, and here's where it says you can use shield with warlock slots.

How much help is Familiar for a mostly martial class, like Fighter or Paladin?

>>49353138

>playing both characters at once

that could work.

>>49353154

>they won't always attack you

warcaster booming blade that shit and make them take oodles of damage for daring to leave your melee reach.

>environmental hazards

best left to other casters. You are a fighter. You ARE an environmental hazard.

>that work with shield

I'd rather just have more spell slots to shield from. also if you MI for Wizard, you can use your spell slots on your MI spell.

>these are multiclass options

I know, I was just saying that even with bonus actions already covered by something else having the option to do these things is still good. You might need to double dash one day, or want to dash and still booming blade at the end of it without blowing action surge.

>you will have more attacks with action surge

It's better to regular attack with your action surge then cast a cantrip because you'll be getting the same amount of damage dice up until level 17 but you'll be getting more modifier damage and it will be less "eggs in one basket".

>>49353206

I was going to ask this too, lol. Figured it didn't matter though. honestly, in my opinion, going full fighter is still better than mixing your EK with warlock.

Why are there no finesse polearms?

>>49347719
Probably alter it to have subraces.

Soldier (bog standard) Scout (small quick) and Psiforged (once Mystic is hashed out)

>>49353308
>Psiforged
Yes please, I've been wanting to play as a Gundam forever.

If you have 7 levels in EK and multiclass into ranger or paladin, do you lose spell slots?

Technically, you would.

You calculate the spell slots you have by half your paladin/ranger levels, rounded down. You then add that onto a third of your fighter levels, rounded down.

7/3 rounded down = 2
1/2 rounded down = 0
2 + 0 = 2
Even if you don't round down until the end:
2.3333 + 0.5 = 2.8888, rounded down = 2.
You get 3 level 1 spell slots.

However, a level 7 EK gets 4 level 1 spells lots and 2 level 2 spells lots.

Something's fundamentally wrong here.

>>49353244
If you want to booming blade them up, you don't get any awfully big benefit of levelling fighter up higher. Though, EB lets you push enemies back that are well out of your range, which means you can delay them and keep them at bay. Team up with a pure warlock or something and you can potentially keep some monsters at bay for a while.
>rogue bonus actions
Yeah, they're nice to have on hand and double dash is some nice gotta-go-fast material but it feels like there's some value lost there in having so many things tied to bonus actions.
>action surge
Someone dipped in warlock will have better access to hex than a MI to combo with action surge. But still, you'll probably do less damage and booming blade's secondary won't stack. However, EB's pushback does stack I believe, giving up to 80 feet pushback at level 17. If you grab quickened spellcasting, up to 120 feet pushback. Just think of the stupid things you could do.

>>49353260
Because dex is already overpowered.

If your DM is particularly nice, they may allow you to put 1 level in Monk to obtain the monk weapon quarterstaff usage. Technically not finesse, but your DM may rule it so.

By the wordings of their intention of making monk weapons functionally finesse but technically not finesse, they say it's to avoid 'broken combos in the future', and I like to take that to mean 'potential finesse combos that already exist should be allowed'. The rogue-monk-quarterstaff+feat isn't exactly broken.

>>49353350

You're missing the point. You warcaster Booming Blades when they move out of your reach to punish them hard for it, and then rely on your regular fighter antics when it's your turn (BB attack at levels 7-10, attack at level 11-17 etc.).

>hex

Honestly, Hex is okay at first but I think I'd rather have Haste, especially for the front line. If I'm going to be concentrating on something i want it to help keep me alive in addition to help me kill stuff. Either way, Hex and Action surge with 4 attacks is nice because it's the most damage you're getting out of it. Either way I'd rather MI Wizard for the hilarity of something like grease.

Once again, you don't Action Surge into a cantrip. You action surge into your full attack, which will pretty much always do more damage.

The problem with using EB to push things back and then grabbing quickened spell to push them back further is why are you a fighter at that point? Just go Sorlock and leave EK alone, it does nothing but make you waste levels.

>>49349493
Warlock is basically this for Eldritch Blast. Though 3.5 had a lot more shaping options for eldritch blast.

>>49353238
A familiar is a great scout and, in combat, can give one of your attack rolls advantage so long as it doesn't get caught in an AoE or becomes the target of an attack, because most familiars die in a single hit.

>>49353445
In other words, a familiar is a great scout and not much else. Though if you got touch-range cleric/paladin support spells, being able to channel them to your friends at range could be useful.

>>49353488

It's definitely not super amazing, but it has it's uses. Probably not for Fighter or Paladin though.

You could ask your DM if you could Lay on Hands through your familiar. That probably wouldn't be too busted and would also be real fuckin neato.

>>49353430
Haste will probably get you more damage than hex, normally, aside from the speed increase and AC increase.
But I'd think of it as just another feature, out of being able to use extra attack for lots of grapples/shoves and a second action surge and indomitable and some extra feats.

It's mostly about weighing up whether you want the later fighter stuff or want to go weapon-damage-focused, or if you want to take up some stuff from other classes.
It's just I'm more interested in the latter and seeing what other features I can get. Especially doesn't feel worth it if you're going sword and board EK. Sword and board EK is pretty much made for cantrip-focused damage from BB/GFB/EB.

The action surge damage will obviously be more if you go for a two-handed weapon over using it on a ranged attack, but even then it's not massively different. The big difference is if you get a chance to use advantage and can use the +10 damage with it. WIthout all the two-handed weapon/feat antics, using the action surge on a cantrip is about the same, and if you don't bother to level fighter up then it'll be better.

Sorclockfighter isn't exactly the best idea, but preparing a hex the turn before and using fighter's action surge to pull that off is something I might want to see once in my life, just to see how far the monster will go.

>>49353238
>>49353445
Technically if you have a warlock's familiar, the familiar can hover 5ft above an enemy and use the help action with no action input from your part. While invisible.

This means that only enemies that can see invisible can detect them, and the only way enemies are likely to hit them accidentally is if they use an AoE that targets their own allies.

By RAW, the familiar will not give its position away by using the help action.

>>49353628

If you don't want to do weapon damage stuff, don't take more than two levels in Fighter. That's the bottom line. If we're talking about not doing weapon stuff, then why are we talking about EK.

SNB EK is also good at being the hardest thing to hit in the game next to a super shield barbarian with 20 dex and con.

>without two handed weapon or ranged

even without those, it's still better to attack because you'll be getting more modifier damage on your attacks than you would be if you cantrip'd. For not sword and board your damage dice will be higher too. It's also better to make multiple attacks, generally.

Hey, /tg/, I need your advice. There is *that guy* in our party who really annoys me and creeps me out. One guy annoys everyone, but that guy seems focused on me.

>started as true neutral bard who mostly is interested in keeping songs and finding adventures to make new ones
>that guy is NE tiefling wizard.
>acts like he wants to convert my character to go evil
>constantly chooses a seat close to me or reserves a seat like that for me
>constantly breaks into my personal space, while in game he actually gets close and whispers into my ear about his characters plans about mine
>once killed an old granny who sheltered us just for evulz
>gets all defensive when my character confronts him: "You are TN, not Good, why do you even care?"
>starts whispering to me even more
>I continue to cover him and save like the rest of the party
>constantly complains about bard being overpowered despite it's him who is crippled
>when we had a new player and I concentrated on helping him that guy became even more bothersome
>actually grew tired and got rid of that bard
>made a drow and warned him that my character is Evil
>he continues to get too personal to me
>later we meet a black guy and he starts being racist saying that blackskinned are garbage and shit like that
>in front of an evil blackskinned drow
>later gets even more annoying and criticizes my evil character's every action
>we attack overwhelming forces and have to retreat
>he got almost killed because he didn't want to hide in my Darkness
>I'm asked to save him so I cast invisibility on both of us and carry him
>In the end of the chase tell everyone that I'm throwing his unconscious body in a canyon
>that guy gets angry, tells that he'll quit if I do that
>but you are evil, isn't that action the pinnacle of evilness as you wanted?
>no, my char was never serious but yours is acting like a cruel ass
>decide to be nicer to the team and change my mind

How should I deal with him? We are 5 lvl.

>>49353703
Rape him.

>>49353703

Missed your chance to throw him into the canyon. Or have your bard have a big damn hero moment and kill him.

Just remember, 'it's what my character would do.' I guess. If someone justifies being stupid evil with that shit, and I'm playing someone opposed to that, then I will feel free to kill you.

Seriously though, talk to your DM and maybe the rest of the group about it.

>>49353700
EK gives you access to armour, shields, spells such as 'shield' and 'absorb elements'. It gives you 'war magic', which some warlocks would love to have. Though, warlocks get other stuff.

SnB EK with multiclass can still be very hard to hit. They're not really trading off any super significant defence abilities if they multiclass.

Sword and board, pure fighter.
Booming blade will always do more damage if it procs.
At levels 3 and 4, it is a direct upgrade. You do just as many attacks, yet also get booming blade's effect.
At level 5 and 6, it's a bit worse, unless secondary procs.
At level 7, 8, 9 and 10, BB is always better if you have a bonus action.You do just as many attacks, yet ALSO get booming blade's effect.
At levels 11 through 16, it's 3d8+15 versus 4d8+10 if you have a bonus, so it's fairly evenly matched, but booming blade also gets a potential 3d8 extra damage. Normal attack still works better for action surge, though.
Levels 17, 18, 19, booming blade does 5d8+10 if you have a bonus action. Normal attack doesn't advance until level 20. Obviously, 4d8 extra if it procs.
Level 20, 4d8+20 against 5d8+10+secondary. Extra attack would definitely win with a +3 magic weapon.

Also with Green Flame Blade, you always know if the secondary will proc. However, low int means less damage.

So really, for sword-and-board, there are only three levels where multiple attack is definitely better if you have a free bonus action and secondary is unlikely to proc.

>>49353703
Seems this guy thinks alignment should just decide your every action. I like to think alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive. Your character shouldn't just do things because he is (insert alignment). That alignment should be attributed to him because of the way he acts.

Also, you probably should have just killed him. The way it sounds, you guys would be better off if he quit.

>>49353865

You're trading out 7 levels of casting to get War Magic. That's not worth it by ANY stretch of the imagination.

>they're not trading off any defense if they multiclass

they're trading the ability to be a better fighter with attacks and the dueling fighting style (which I'm sure your calculations have missed).

>it's 3d8+15

3d8+21 vs 4d8+12.

There are 5 levels where it's an upgrade to regular attack, and having a regular attack that's better strengthens your action surge too, as well as giving you some other great features.

>gives you spells such as shield and absorb elements

that you could get from sorcerer without also having to deny yourself the best spell in the game? Just go sorlock if you want to EB things into the sun. It will be better. The only reason I would ever tell someone to run this theoretical build is if it fit some weird character concept of theirs. Otherwise it seems totally pointless.

>>49353806
But he's not my type.
And I have a feeling he'll actually get what he wants that way.
>>49353851
Now i think about "accidentally" using 3rd slot thunderwave but canyon moment was perfect in-character because no other character will learn the truth:
> invisible man hides an invisible body
>>49353927
I'm a "Character defines an alignment, not vice versa believer too
And I'm a bit scared because earlier he promised that his next character will be a paladin who will molest mine even more about "not being good enough".

The only interesting shit he had done was giving a barbarian evil god's symbol as a sacrifice for a good Life goddess. After barb has stolen her offerings not getting that was an altar. But that's actually more of our barbarian being an idiot. But we got used to that and mostly ignore him.

>>49353943
Those 7 levels in EK are to get additional damage on something that otherwise is extremely hard to buff the damage of.
When you have 2 levels in warlock for agonizing blast, you have an attack with scaling damage no matter what you multiclass into. The damage is competitive with a sword and board fighter. The difference is, you can go waste levels whereever.
So, you can put 7 levels into fighter for EK features and ultimately war magic, which buffs your scaling cantrip further. There aren't very many other ways to buff EB. You could go sorcerer, and use 'quickened spell' with it a lot.

I didn't include the duelling fighting style, because I didn't include the booming blader's fighting style either. Perhaps the guy with booming blade decided he wants to take protection or +1 AC?
He's built for defence, so naturally you'd expect him to tend towards it.
Though, certainly, duelling is good for someone not focused on using booming blade and wants to get more out of action surge, but it isn't really the choice I'd expect for someone going for a tanky build.

However, if he did have duelling, it would be
3d8+21 vs 4d8+14 (+ potential 3d8)

>that you could get from sorcerer
You don't get medium/heavy armour from sorcerer.
You don't get shield from sorcerer.
You don't get, say, +1 AC from sorcerer.
You don't get 1d10 hitdice for those 7 levels.
You don't get that level 6 feat that could be used for something defensive.
You don't get second wind.
You're trading out defence.

>>49354030

You're just gonna have to wait your chance. Or talk to the DM and the group. Or even him and tell him he's really wigging you out. Maybe make sure the seats next to you are occupied.

Next time he does something stupid, just let him reap his consequences. Leave his character to die, let him get arrested and go to prison, or just shoot him in the back yourself.

I'm building a wizard, but I'm stuck between Abjuration, Illusion, and Divination. They all seem really good. Which one should I take and why?

Does a shield counts as armor for the purposes of ending Mage Armor?

>>49354062
divination and illusion are best, abjuration is second best. Necromancy is fun tier, evocation is blaw-shit-the-fuck-up-tier

>>49354080
Necromancy seems like a lot of fun, it just wouldn't fit the character I have in mind.
Yeah, Evocation and Transmutation seem like the most "eh" of the arcane traditions. Conjuration and Enchantment seem pretty fun too.

First time playing 5e and I'm trying to make a LN paladin devoted to mercenary work and honoring contracts (thinking sort of Big Boss meets Leon the Professional or something ).
Is there any diety that represents this line of thinking? Basically worshipping the sacredness of a binding contract, work for coin?

>>49349886
No.
And I feel really bad about it.

>>49354055

>can't get medium/heavy armor from sorcerer

Just go Dragon blood line. Then you'll have always on mage armor. Or armor of agathys.

>You don't get shield from sorcerer

Yes you do.

>You don't get +1 AC from sorc

You get Wish.

>You don't get 1d10 hit dice

You get wish

>You don't get that level 6 feat

You get wish.

>You don't get second wind

You get wish? I think I'd rather have Wish than all of that shit. If you take so many fighter levels you won't be quickening EBs for long either, because your font of magic is going to be a trickle.

If you're going for defense it makes sense to go even further in fighter too, for indomitable, stronger second wind, and your teleportation action surge. Splitting your class like this just seems like a bad idea man. I don't know.

>>49354066

No.

>>49354062

Divination and Illusion are the best two schools. Evocation is pretty vanilla but it's extremely effective at what it does, letting you blast better without killing your friends. If you don't want to blast though, go Divination for easy to use raw power or Illusion for creative solutions to problems.

>>49354030
>his next character will be a paladin who will molest mine even more about "not being good enough".
And you said he only harasses you, right? Not anyone else? It may just be a big joke to him, and may not even realize he's actually pissing you off. I'd say sit down with him and make it clear you're serious. If that doesn't work, I'd try to start conspiring against him with the party, they'd probably side with you once you've already talked to him, and he still hasn't stopped.

What are the best non core classes?

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>>49354066
No. Going off Sage Advice, shields only count when they're specified, not as armor in general.

>armor proficeincy section only mentions penalties for wearing armor
>only mentions shields in fluff
>general rule is considered "shields don't count as armor" by this SA entry
>no penalties for wielding a shield without proficiency

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>>49354183
The Mystic from the UA, or PDF related

>>49354099
In 5e you don't have to swear to a deity. It's based off the tenants of your oath. With that mind set go with devotion. It's a party player and all about honor.

>>49354123
I worded 'you don't get shield' wrong.
You don't get 'a shield' from sorcerer for +2 AC.
Armor of agathys is a weird thing, since normally only warlocks get and and they can only upcast it to level 5. But, yes, it can be useful sometimes.
You get wish, at level 17. You can use the 'you get wish' argument to devalue pretty much all multiclasses and some classes at level 17. God, the wizardfuckery.
Wish would be better compared to some sort of late game, but multiclasses are just about as good as non-casters at that point.
>you get wish x2
See above. You get wish at level 19, actually. Because you have two levels in warlock.

So here's my answer:
You don't get wish, because you'll have to tread through an entire campaign before you can wish it all to end.

The EK/Sorcerer/Warlock ting wasn't very serious. More of a 'maybe once as a one shot this could be funny' thing.

You certainly get a few things like better action surge and indomitable and a better second wind, but you can potentially pick up defence bonuses in multiclassing, too.

If you can find something to do after level 9, I think it works out. Such as a EB -> Attack with rapier -> Sneak Attack combo where you're doing your utmost best to push EB's power to its limit.That's kind of what it's all about, taking EB and making it deal even more damage, and having a bit of tankiness lying around.

The point is that it's an alternative, which means it does different things better and some things worse.

There a way to do E6 with 5e?

>>49354221
For what purpose?

>>49354230
I prefer the low-power tier of play.

>>49354215

Armor of Agathys is just always on mage armor. Unless I'm thinking of the wrong invocation, but that's what I was trying to mention at least.

>You get Wish at level 17

at level sorcerer level 18. But having wish at all is better than not having wish and instead having +2 AC when you could instead be flying around as a dragon playing keep away

>sneak attack combo with a rapier

Here you're going to be barely getting 11 levels in rogue assuming the bare minimum in fighter. Your sneak attack is going to be so bland the entire campaign. I guess it'd work? I'd rather just be a single class though.

But hey, if it fits your character concept, go for it I guess

>>49354234
Start at 1st, end the campaign before you hit 11th level or around there.

>>49354191
RAW, yes this is right. I'd definitely not let someone without shield proficiency gain any benefits from wearing one though.
>>49354210
tenets

>>49354288
Oh my how embarrassing. You've noticed my blunder.

>>49354247
That's armour of shadows or something.
Dragon sorcerers already get mage armour for free, pretty much.
It'd be better to go for the infinite uses of false life, probably, for 8 temporary HP whenever you have a free half a minute.

You definitely get level 9 spells at sorcerer level 17. Taking multiclasses delays that, obviously.

The sneak attack would probably be fine. It's an awkward combo of

1. Full eldritch blast (if a warlock wasn't doing hex and stuff, this is where a warlock's damage would end.)
2. A rapier attack
3. Sneak attack, added to that rapier attack.
Of course, you have to actually hit that rapier attack.

Multiclassing is a bit faffy, and normally works out best in the medium/short-ish run, but it's kind of fun once you've used up all the base ideas already, or if you think a certain path (say, sword and boarding, paladin after you get the strong auras, or barbarian after extra attack) isn't looking like it'll give you much benefit.

In the long run, you'll always end up losing out a level 9 spell that could be like 'foresight'. I'd rather have foresight than multiclassing out of caster, but it takes so long to get it.

>>49354323

Gotta be dedicated.

On some level though I think this is the point in the discussion where two people just agree to disagree and then go on their merry ways.

No disrespect though m8 ur alright with me.

>>49354350
Yeah.

Well, the only thing I'm really suggesting is that it's an alternative that could work, and that it's not entirely a waste. Mostly aiming it at an alternative to sword and boarding, though.

It's nothing like the broken shit a certain other multiclass is, but I really shouldn't get started on something else now.

You have a good day, sir.

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5eg,

How do you come back from having a really bad session? As a player or GM, what do you do to bring back some life and energy?

also, what were the circumstances of the worst session that you have every had?

>>49354420
Destroy the source.
Kicked a guy from the table that was causing trouble recently. He was clearly trying to screw with the group and the campaign, then just wouldn't work with what the group had in mind.

>>49354420
I've never had a bad session in my life.

>>49354420
Trying to focus on the good parts. Hoping the GM reigns in some problem players (he won't or can't).

>>49354504

really? never encountered ego on the table, or edgelording so hard that it threatened to railroad the whole party away from the party's collective goal, or against the party's desires so hard?

>>49354468
Why do I feel like I hear this so often? What is it about ttgs that attracts some many players that basically want to play solos

>>49354585
>What is it about ttgs that attracts some many players that basically want to play solos
Single player RPGs probably. He put no backstory on his character and just went champion fighter without much thought. So it seemed like he wanted to just hit stuff with no real rhyme or reason.

Some friends invited me to their 5e session, i was surprised by their style of playing, they play their characters as if it was a mmo, pure combat, they roleplay but that isnt the focus

>>49354681
It's how some people roll. It is a game in the end, so it's sometimes fun to just throw damage rolls and kill gobs.

>>49354681
As long as there's flexibility, that's alright.

If int is used for lore checks.

If charisma is used to maybe negotiate with some enemies.

If you can sneak up on enemies, or if you can use non-combat spells somehow.

Otherwise, I'd be a bit mad in that all non-combat abilities would be useless.

>>49349747

Yeah, this. The GM has a weird idea of dice rolls and he should change to a more logical and coherent one.

>>49354704
>>49354706
It was fun really, and yeah they used all the checks, and the thing i like the most was that when they are talkin in elven the raise their pinky

Wizard Archetype: Blood Mage
2: Exsanguinate: Target within 30' makes a con save against your spell save DC. On a failure, they take 1d10 slashing damage (scales at 5, 11, and 17) and you extract enough blood to fill a small phial - the blood flies through the air to fill a phial in your hand, no action required. On a save, they take half damage and you extract nothing. Additionally, you may use daggers as arcane foci.

6. Blood Magic: You can use a phial of blood from a specific creature as an additional component for any spell. You have advantage on any relevant attack rolls against that creature, and they have disadvantage on any relevant saves. The blood dries to useless dust as the spell completes.

10. Blood Focus: By using a phial of blood from a specific creature as an additional component, you may ignore the range entry for any spell you cast on that creature; as long as you and the creature are on the same plane, you may target them. This ignores line of sight, but not line of effect (so ray spells and projectiles will probably fail, but things like hold person will work). This does not consume the blood.

14. Extract Sanguine Servitor: When you use your Exsanguinate ability, rather than filling a blood phial, you can use the blood to summon a red-tinted water elemental within 10' of the target, as if you had cast Conjure Elemental as a 7th-level spell. Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you complete a short rest.

Give it to me straight, how bad is it?

>>49354719
As long as they haven't chopped a whole portion of the game, I'd probably like it.

I've been in too many games now where combat is a bit too scarce.
Build up to combat for hours, and then combat only lasts a few rounds.

>>49354719
Joking about being a pompous elf or a way of showing they're speaking a different language?
I might have to steal that if it's the later, instead of saying something like "This is in Dwarvish" before everything.

>>49354758
Sounds alright, a sort of "favored" flavor for wizards.
It's not clicking with my idea of blood mages. You do you, though.

>>49354768
the latter, each finger represented a different race

>>49347929
Be over a ledge with a target below them, and pull out 4 alchemists acid while subsequently dropping them after taking them out.

>>49354758
No indication on how often or how actioney it takesto use the level 2 ability. If it really is a free action and has no recharge, then couldn't you just instantly kill anybody within 30 feet of you while bathing in blood?
Should probably make the level 2 ability do necrotic damage or something, and be automatically ineffective against anything without blood (Though they'd probably be resistant/immune to necrotic anyway)

The level 6 actually requiring you to have phials of blood seems a bit... Odd. Especially when you could stockpile blood endlessly. However, if 'specific creature' means you have to have specifically their blood and not blood of their race, it probably works out just fine.

Disadvantage on saves could be potentially a bit powerful. It'd also be good to specify if it's only the first saves or all saves pertaining to that spell.

Level 10 ability is a bit odd, but I think it works.

Level 14 ability is weird. I can't be bothered to find the exact type of water elemental that could be summoned, but here's the issue -
It's a concentration spell. I think wizards already have enough concentration spells to bother with, without having one as a class feature.


I think it's a bit awkward to have two abilities depending on your first ability.
Not to mention, you'll end up with vials that do nothing of use until you reach level 6 in wizard.

>>49354585
>Why do I feel like I hear this so often? What is it about ttgs that attracts some many players that basically want to play solos
They're used to stories (either videogames or novels) that feature a main character that they control. Combine this with empowerment fantasy temptations created by making their own character and they often cause problems.
Basically, they treat D&D as something other then an effort at collaborative storytelling and come out of it kind of damaging stuff for a lot of other players. For what it's worth, I think it's largely the empowerment fantasy aspect to it that carries them away with it rather then being overfamiliarized with other kinds of stories.

I'm re-rolling after playing a sorcerer (poorly) for nearly a year. I really don't want to deal with that much magic this time around, but between the party's eldritch knight and assassin we have a lot of direct damage output already so I want something that can be a fighter but also a really strong support.
What would be more FUN, Devotion Paladin or Battle Master? or else?

Party just started 5e, but little did we know we had 2 clerics. Me on nature and a friend on war cleric, should i just reset on a druid or are the two clerics ok?

>>49354831
My bad, the level 2 ability is an action to use, but can be used at-will like a cantrip. The damage portion works on any target, but you don't extract blood (or sap or ichor or what have you) unless the target actually has the stuff.

And yes, the level 6 and 10 abilities refer to a specific creature, not just a species. It has to be from the exact same creature you're targeting.

I should probably think of a use for blood phials before level 6, as well as a defensive ability.

>>49354420
I've been DMing a campaign for the first time, for about 10 months, now. and we've had two bad sessions that I can think of. Bad as in I was feeling bad by the end of it. Both of them involved the party getting into an impossible fight with a fuck-huge number of enemies. The first was actually my second session as DM, the last was two weeks ago. In the first, what was supposed to be a rescue mission turned into a bloodbath because the party decided to take a defensive position inside a building instead of fleeing. There was some miscommunication, too, they didn't understood they had enough time to escape. In the end, I had to fudge a lot of rolls because I didn't want a fucking TPK in my second session. The party survived, but I still felt awful, though. And drained after such a lengthy fight.

Two weeks ago the party was sneaking and bluffing through a place full of enemies, found a place with a bunch of gold and were looting it. However, 2 crits on a random encounter table meant some powerful people came to where they were, and after the party tried to impersonate (Actor feat) an NPC that was close by, the chase began. After two PCs failed their save against Entangle, things went bad. They still tried everything they could, but were eventually overwhelmed. I felt awful again, but this time I didn't fudge and they were defeated and captured. And yeah, those long combats with lots of enemies can really drain a DM's energy...

>>49354840
Fighter and strong support? Look no further than paladin. Maybe valor bard, but they're more on the magical side. Now on what's more fun, that depends on you, anon.

>>49354860
Don't feel bad. The players made bad decisions. Now, not terrible decisions, just not thought out. Always remind your players the adventuring position is rife with danger, so sometimes a death is necessary to prove that. Just don't over punish death.

>>49354831
>>49354852
On the Elemental, the spell Conjure Elemental allows for up to CR 7 at that level, but the monster manual only has a CR 5 version, so I'd opt for the simpler version and just let you use that one.

On concentration issues, how do you feel about it being uncontrolled, hostile to the person it was extracted from and indifferent to all others?

>>49354758

I think it's very flavorful and cool, however, this anon (>>49354831) brings up some good points- blood vials from a certain creature become useless when it dies, and blood can be stockpiled endlessly for no apparent reason. The last ability is just strange.

>>49354852

There are other abilities that can reflect blood magic. Imbibing blood for power, imbuing the blood itself with power and flinging it at people... I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

>>49354860

What are you thinking to do to keep them invested, or do you think that they might be stoked to do a jailbreak-of-sorts?

>>49354758
Going along with some of the abilities seeming weird. I know the aesthetic of a blood mage is using blood for power. Sometimes distilling it as some life force or as just straight blood. So there's a bit with restoring spell slots based off blood consumption. Then there's using your own blood defensively and offensively. Hardening blood at the place of impact? Crystallizing blood to form a weapon? So there's more usage for the vials of blood you get.

>>49354852
As a cantrip, it's a bit of a problem.

It gives you.. To be honest, it's not really useful at all.

You've got something that's pretty much a shorter ranged firebolt, except that it then provides something that can be used with later abilities.
At 2nd level, there's no real incentive to use it.
At 6th level, you start to have a reason to use it. It basically becomes a better version of truestrike combined with a firebolt-like cantrip.
However, the problem is that you then can't really get much use out of it unless you spend a turn preparing by using a cantrip.

I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's a bit too awkward to use.

The level 2 ability should be useful at level 2.
It's awkward to make them have to spend a turn just using a regular cantrip before they can then do anything.

And even then, it's kind of weird.

At level 10
The wizard could walk up to a guy, take their blood, teleport away and then kill that guy from the other side of the world. That guy can do barely anything to stop you.
That's pretty broken if you combine it with 'teleport' or something.

Maybe if you could use blood to refresh a weaker level 6 ability, and if instead of gaining a new cantrip you gained blood from casting the spells you already get somehow.

>>49354949
I think they actually are. Somehow, they hit level 6 anyway. The fighter decided to multiclass into barbarian to tap into his rage while chained to to the wall, so he can try and yank the bolts out with pure fury! Sounds awesome, I'd like to see how it goes. They also have allies around, a rogue NPC that hid while they were fighting so that she could come to their help later (though one of them got salty at her for not helping), and two new players joining up because others had to leave.

>>49354758
Here's my blood mage so you can compare it.

2. Blood magic:
Bonus action necromancy or transmutation cantrip that deals 1d4 necrotic damage. Damage scales to 2d4 at lvl 6, 3d4 at lvl 10 and 4d4 at lvl 14. You don't add your Int mod to damage as it uses a bonus action.

6. Blood demon: You gain Con save proficiency and regain Int mod temporary Hp that lasts for one hour when you hit a target with blood magic.

10. Blood ritual:
You gain the ability to assimilate abilities of other living beings through a magical ritual that uses some of the creatures blood.
You may have up to 2 effects active at a time.
Effect by creature type:
Dragon - free mage armour (unarmoured AC)
Monkey - proficiency in sleigh of hand checks (or expertise if you are already proficient) and 1d4 unarmed damage die
Bear - Str save proficiency and extra 2 Hp per wizard level
Feline - Stealth skill proficiency (or expertise if already known) as well as 60 ft darkvision (expands to 90ft if you already have dark vision)
Wolf/Canine - Allies gain advantage on attack rolls as long as they are within 5ft of you and you gain Perception skill proficiency (or expertise if you already have the skill)
Piscine creature (fish) - You gain a swim speed equal to your movement speed and the aquatic trait that grants you the ability to breathe under water.

Lvl 14. Blood clone:
Through a magical ritual you may consturct up to Int mod clones of cratures whose CR is 6 or lower to serve as minions under your complete control. You need the blood of said creatures to create their clones.

>>49354957
Hmmm. I had previously wanted to stick with a theme of using a creature's blood as a focus to fuck them over, but I suppose that is a bit narrow.

What about being able to use blood, your own or another creature's, to fuel metamagic similar to a sorcerer? This jives pretty well with certain representations of blood magic liek in Dragon Age but then you run into the issue of using your HP to fuel abilities, which is always awkward.

Or perhaps using blood to fuel your Arcane Recovery, recovering more spells? Obviously with some sort of limit, probably your Int bonus.

>>49355017
forgot for dragon , at will free alter self.

>>49354915
Had a look. To be honest, probably a bit too powerful without concentration.
It'd probably be fine if it required concentration, and though I'm a bit wary about the 'short rest' thing it's only as if you'd cast a level 5 spell anyway.

And then it's a bit boring if it's pretty much a free cast of a level 5 spell.

Without concentration, having a tough pet (114 with resistance to non-magical weapons, and many monsters don't have magical weapons) that can grapple, hurt while grappling and do a decent-ish attack...
If it required concentration, at least enemies could counter it a bit.
The level 14 abilities wizards get aren't typically crazypowerful or anything. Unless you're an illusionist.

>>49355032
I can see that working out. Also, you can keep your spell. Going into the schools let you prep a spell from that school for free, so that blood spell can just be a free spell from the beginning.
I'd say the only problem is taking health from the class like the wizard, cause low hit die and all.

>>49355017
>and wrong CR on the blood clones

Meant CR = Wizard level/5

>>49349408
>People walk in with the overclocking mindset gifted to them from 3.5 and 4.
>The rules don't immediately prevent them from doing so.
>'Too much minutia'.
Unless, of course, 'menutia' has a completely different meaning.

>>49355070
Yeah, considering the low hit die, if we go with self harm = metamagic, I was thinking that 2 HP = 1 Sorcery Point for paying costs. So you cut yourself for 2 hp to empower a spell, 4 for bonus action casting, 6 to heighten it, or 18 if you wanna be a dick and twin a True Polymorph on someone.

I think that might actually be too low.

>>49355017
>level 2
Probably a little overpowered. Why would you add your int mod to it, anyway? Spells don't have your modifier to damage, normally.
But anyway, having that as a bonus action on a class that doesn't normally use lots of bonus actions (wizards certainly have access to plenty of bonus action spells, but won't always be using it) seems a bit.. Eh.
Just giving them free damage, that scales as they get more features.
There's no mention of if it even has an attack roll, or its range, or anything. Even if this is abridged, it's important information.

Level 6 ability strikes me as being too good, really. Not only do you get constant regenerating temporary HP since it only takes a bonus action, but you get proficiency in con saves - that's normally a whole level feature in itself, and it benefits the wizard because they need concentration.

Level 10:
Dragon - You can steal the warlock's level 15 or so 'myriad forms' invocation whenever you feel like it. I think that's a bit too much utility as something that can be on and off. Not to mention free mage armour.
Monkey - It's okay.
Bear - Way too good, really.
Feline - a bit powerful as a 'switch to it whenever' thing.
Wolf/canine - Overpowered as heck. Expertise in the best skill and a better version of wolf barbarian's ability.
Fish - Situational, so it's okay.

Level 14 is blatantly overpowered without restrictions, especially if every single creature is CR 6 or less.

>>49354849
It really depends on your character concept.
What's the rest of the party's composition?

>>49355141
I'll correct and add some.

Level 2.
Blood magic:

Necromancy cantrip, bonus action, single target, 60 ft range , Somatic component (pointing a finger at the target).
Target has to make a CON save or take 1d4 necrotic damage (half on successfull save), damage scales as you level up to 2d4 at lvl 6, 3d4 at lvl 10 and 4d4 at lvl 14.

Lvl 6: Whenever you kill a target with Blood magic you regain Int (or Con) mod temporary hit points.

Lvl 10:
Blood ritual:

By infusing your self with blood of different creatures you may assume some of their abilities through an hour long ritual (you may only have 2 active at a time and the effects last until a diferent effect is applied).

Dragon: D.Sorc unarmoured feature and Natural weapons (claws) are gained
Bear: Extra 2 Hp per wizard level and the Extra attack 1 feature
Monkey: Sleigh of hand proficiency is gained and unarmed damage die of 1d4 for which you may use either Str or Dex.
Feline: Stealth proficiency is gained and gain darkvision if you already don't have it.
Canine: You gain Perception proficiency if you don't already have it and gain advantage on all attack rolls as long as another allied creature is withing 5 ft of you and your target.
Piscine - Swim speed=movement speed + acquatic trait.

Still got things like Hawk, Serpent, Giant and the like to cover.
If you have ideas please do tell.

Lvl 14: Blood clone:

You create one minion creature by cloning it from the blood of a creature with a CR of a third of your Wizard level rounded down.
It is completely under your control and you can comand it as an action.
As long as you are on the same plane if your main body dies your soul is transplanted itno the cloned creature which then serves as your body until you use a blood ritual magic with the blood from your original body to reconstruct your original body.

GM is running a side campaign while 1 of our regular players is busy, so we will only have 2 players. Other guy is going to play the UA beastmaster ranger, and I'm trying to play something around that. Any suggestions?

>>49355484
Seems like he'll have a bit of both ranged and melee ability, unless he's doing a mounted thing and going double melee. Consider a spellcaster, potentially one who can heal in a pinch.

>>49355484
I'd probably go war cleric or valor bard, depending on if he's going ranged or melee

>>49355468
The problem I have with level 2 is mostly that it doesn't really.. Work.
Bonus actions aren't for attacks. They're only really used for attacks when something else grants it - a bonus. Say, two-weapon-fighting when you use the 'attack' action, great weapon fighter awards one on a crit or some wizard spells let you use bonuses to command things.

The attack deals almost half the damage of a firebolt, and scales faster than firebolt does. That's kind of a big deal for a bonus action.
Not entirely broken, but I don't think it's a nice ability to be hanging around and will plague the DM with extra rolls all the time and slow things down a bit.

Level 6 is looking a bit underpowered now. A much weaker version of fiendlock's level 1 ability. It'd be better if if triggered on the kill of any creature, but that's not so thematic...

Level 10 -
Dragon - Probably works out.
Bear - The problem here is that for one of three level 10 features, you can get +2 HP/level. That's like a feat as one of three parts of a level 10 feature. You get +1d4 every bonus action, one non-bear thing and then you can also get bear to get the health of a 1d10 hitdie class.
Monkey - Feels a little underpowered in comparison to the other ones here.
Feline - Works out.
Canine - Kind of powerful. The range limitation is sort of nice, but then the wizard will probably just walk up behind their fighter, cast whatever atack spell they want with advantage and then walk away again.

(cont..)

>>49355538
>>49355582
Sorry I didn't specify - he's going to be primarily ranged with a giant crab companion.

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>>49354105
>2016
>Being THIS slothful
Get to preparing for your next session, nigger.

>>49355468
(...cont)
But, I think what might balance out canine is that by level 10 you're reaching the point where the more powerful spells don't actually have attack rolls, so it's somewhat mildly situational.
I think it'd work best if you had to be within 5ft of the target, as well.
That would still be a very powerful effect, having proficiency in the best skill in the game and (as long as you're near teammates) negating the close-quarters attack roll disadvantage (or having advantage with touch attacks)

So maybe it should really be one or the other.
Hawk could be something like perception instead, or it could help you see things at a distance, or something like that.

And the fish is still fine.

The level 14 thing is highly abusable, though.
There are all sorts of creatures you could encounter that could have pretty crazy effects on battle.
If you bring along a yeti, for example, it can attempt to paralyze someone every single turn.
Paralysis is a major debuff.

You'd be effectively allowing the wizard to - as an archetype feature - get a pet way more powerful than a beastmaster ever could get, with all sorts of crazy effects like 'paralyze an opponent, and then maul them to death because paralyzed creatures can't do anything and take crits automatically'

>>49355468
senpai this shit is all retarded.

first off, bonus action attack cantrip? fuck you thinking man?

also, slowing the game down by making the GM roll a con save for fucking 1d4?

the level 6 is shit too; when are you ever gonna kill someone with your shitty 2d4 con save spell?

compare that to fiend warlock's level 1, which is just "you get temp health with any kill using anything"

>>49355627
then war cleric. Be the frontline while still being able to heal.

>>49355468
>>49355665
Oh, right.
On that last bit, I didn't notice the 'command it as an action'.

That would still be very powerful, and the 'command as an action' would have to be limited to, say, 'can only make one attack' or 'use multiattack' or 'the creature can't use anything that demands a save throw, can't grapple etc as part of its attacks, only deal damage'
I don't know, it's a bit tricky to make pets work in 5e, as we've seen from the beastmaster trajedy.

>>49354849
Two Clerics will be great! Less pressure to pick heals, so you get more options for spell slots. Having two different concentration buffs up is very potent! Bless + shield of faith, for example.
Doubling up on classes isn't really a problem, and Clerics are probably the best to have doubles of!

Hey, I was looking through the PHB at the bookstore today because everyone was talking about it and a couple of my fellow PF players are talking about going to it and I'm a little pissed. Why the fuck are their so few feats? And what's this shit about skills being only trained in or not? And why the hell did they nerf the spellcasters so much? Don't even get me started on the lack of armor and weapon selection and how weak they all are now (especially now that feats are gone).

What the fuck WotC, you had one job and you failed miserably.

>>49354849
I mean nothing wrong with two clerics. everyone else in the party will love you two.

personally if I was in that situation I'd go druid though.

>>49355840
lol

head on back over to /pfg/ then friendo

>>49355622
Remaking blood magic into a GFB/BB clone with a greater range would be an option instead.

Blood magic:
Necromancy cantrip, Action, (Somatic, Material)
Instantaneous.
Range 30 ft.
As part of the action used to cast this spell you make an attack with a weapon(natural weapon or unarmed strike count as well) on a single target (target must be within the normal range of the weapon i.e. touch/5ft for swords,unarmed strikes, natural weapons, 10 ft for pikes, whips, 30 ft. or less for ranged weapons) on a hit the target suffers the normal efects of the weapon attack as well as 1d6 necrotic damage. The damage scales as you level up to 2d6 at lvl 6 , 3d6 at lvl 10 and 4d6 at lvl 14.

Lvl 6 maybe just maybe use the weakened version that steals only Hp on kills on living beings but also grants Con save proficiency.

Bear keeping extra attack 1 but gaining a skill as the others do instead of Hp. Maybe Survival(Wis) proficiency.

Monkey could gain a 1d6 unarmed damage die instead of 1d4.

Canine instead could be Perception proficiency and using the bonus action after casting blood magic to maneover an ally within 10-15 ft of the wizard into 5ft range of the wizard and the target of the blood magic spell.

Lvl 14 is dumb because summons and pets are dumb in 5e.

>>49355840
>Don't even get me started on the lack of armor and weapon selection
Hey, you get halberds AND glaives! What more could you want?

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>>49347641
Does anyone have tips for playing an aasimar devotion paladin of Ilmater in curse of strahd?

>>49355930
>hey anon, we're going to play a campaign where characters from basically anywhere are pulled into a land and trapped, featuring an undead villain
>great, I'll play a character that specializes in killing undead!

Don't.

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>>49355840
5e might not be the game for you. There is no shame in this.

That said, kindly fuck off.

>>49355942
Specializes in healing, anon.

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>>49355840

>>49355919
How about Double-Sided Swords? the racial weapons? Falchion? Composite weapons? I mean, come on! You can't even add any modifiers to your bows unless they or the arrows are magical? What the hell? And then the feats all suck (except Lucky, but it's broken). No improved initiative or Two-Weapon Fighting? Hell, not even Weapon Focus, jsut some shitty feat that lets you be able to use more weapons but why? Why do they feel like shitting on all of the classes and nerf all of them? Except for bard, it seems to be a full-caster now...

>>49355851
Cantrip works out, though it'd probably be nice to see something more like the other level 2 features. Most level 2 wizard features give you something to compliment already existing spells or to change up your spellcasting.
So rather than getting another cantrip, it'd be good to be getting something that interacts with spells, maybe necrotic damage spells or just damaging spells in general, like, 'if you cast a spell that immediately damages a creature within 5ft of you, it has disadvantage to hit you on its next attack before the end of your next turn.' ... As you.. Nauseate it or something. I don't know.

At some points, wizards might not be throwing cantrips around all the time, anyway.

Having con save proficiency would be a level 6 feature all in itself. Though you could put the 'if you kill something with blood magic, you get a bit of temporary HP' on top of it because that's combining a pretty strong thing with a very weak thing.

Monkey would still be niche. Sleight of hand might not be frequently useful enough, leave it to the rogue, and unarmed damage isn't really very useful to you much at all.

Bear could well bundle unarmed attacks and extra attack together, and maybe have something like survival since none of those are super strong by themselves.

Canine sounds like it'd be good like that if you could move allies, though normally such a thing then costs ally reactions to move.

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>>49355840
I know this is satire, but makes me feel pretty smug about 5e.

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>>49355942
>He doesn't know of the dogma for Ilmater's devoted
Be it normal men, beasts, or the undead, any and all who suffer will be aided, as nonviolently as possible (and violently only in the most dire of situations) until such suffering is gone. The suffering of others must be eased, even if it means taking their suffering upon yourself. The path that Ilmater's followers tread is not one of violence, but of martyrdom. No matter the cost to themselves, they will fight (metaphorically, 99% of the time) to free ANYONE and ANYTHING from anguish.

Besides, anon - aren't you familiar with the special roles paladins had in ravenloft? They are the ones who get tested, tormented, and tortured the most. Their very faith is tested, as they can no longer feel their connection to the divine. The dark powers would surely wish to see the breaking point of what is held as a paragon of virtues and goodness.

A Male Strider would make an amazing Revised Ranger companion

Expertise Stealth, climb speed, can jump 60ft., 1d8 bite with 1d8 poison

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So I have been writing up a one-shot to give our Perma-DM a break. I have a section where a member gets switched with a doppleganger without the groups knowledge.

How I have it currently is they are in a spatial anomaly, basically a repeating hallway that is broken up by a door every hundred or so feet. At a certain point the door would close too fast and a member would be stuck behind it. I would ask the rest party to leave the room and have the separated member do whatever they wanted, then continue as normal when the party reopened the door, except the player would now be a doppleganger. Then after another section of the hallway, they will see the character doing what he was doing before they opened the door.

It's the first time I've tried to make a scenario that included a doppleganger, but it feels like I could be doing it better. Any advice?
Should I let the player in on it, or do it differently?

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Has anyone used/encountered Intellect Devourers in combat? They seem kind of iffy, having a low CR (2), but also an instant death combo.

>>49356508
How long does the reduction last?

>>49356562
Forever, there are some spells that can help recover.
>>49356508
Pretty much spells death for any party. Unlucky dice rolls can result in a TPK.

>>49356508
I wish body thief could only be used if devour intellect succeeds.

>>49356562
I don't know for sure, but I'd interpret it as permanent. Until Greater Restoration or Wish or something similar is used, I guess.

All in all, I get the idea you're not supposed to fight these at low lvl, but rather at higher lvl as part of mobs or something.

>>49356686
Then it would still be a very dangerous beast, especially since a lot of players seem to dump INT in 5e

>>49349802

5 levels barb, bear totem for survivability
2 levels fighter for two weapon style, second wind, and action surge.
13 levels rogue, assassin.
Get two weapon fighting feat, use rapiers.

Reckless fighting every round, buzz saw shit to death while raging, sneak attacking, get a full extra round with action surge.

3d8+(str × 3)+6, then sneak attack +7d6.

>>49356508
raise the CR first

Old God Book Warlock from yesterday and since I've landed on the Book making my character forming a pact with his patron God. I was wondering how to further said patrons plans without being edgy as fuck.
I'm going to play the only chaotic alligned chararcter in the group.

My idea was to represent the patron through the spell selection by using mostly hallucinations and fear-inducing and a few damage spells.
But most creatures you just scare as to easier kill them.

>>49356776
That's not up to me. But out of curiosity, how would you rate it?

>>49356999
Well I mean just raise the XP gained from it if you're DMing, I mean 450xp for a party of 4 is really shitty, especially if it ate the intelligence of any party member who is just permanently stunned now
I'm not good with rating CR directly though, but Jesus Christ atleast make it CR 4 and at least reward 4x the experience.

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>>49356921
>I was wondering how to further said patrons plans without being edgy as fuck.
>Old God
>without being edgy
Impossibiru

>>49357057
I didn't really have anything planned with them, I just happened upon them when browsing through the MM. But right now I'm thinking of reducing their blindsight and then using them as a sort of minefield encounter. They are pretty much walking bombs: kill them before they get to you.

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>>49356921
In all my terrible researches, what I sought was a glimpse behind the veil, a crumb of cosmic truth... I found It here and in that moment of brain-blasting realization I ceased to be a man and became a herald, an avatar of the Crawling Chaos.
Life feeds on life. In your petty pursuit of family redemption you consumed those who rallied to your cause and in so doing you strengthened the Thing, accelerating the end. This is as it should be. It is why you are here.
We are chained here forever, you and I, at the end of the world. Free yourself, rouse the thing and embrace the ineffable cosmic hideousness that lives within as all.

You still foolishly consider yourself an entity separate from the whole. I know better. And I. will. show you.

So, my DM is doing an ongoing side game in his setting to wrap up some weird story lines from the beginning of the game 2 years ago and letting us start out at level 10. I'm looking to make something kind of broken and trolly just to mess with him and the group... Anyone have any cool race/multiclass/background recommendations?

>>49357725
New UA ranger, take giant crab animal companion, grapple everybody every turn.

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>>49357224
I was wondering more along the lines of how I can effectively roleplay someone who has a hidden ulterior motive while being twitchy and nervous. Or being a high and mighty arristocrat that booms down on the unwashed and uneducated masses about the end of the world.
All of this without being an edgy fuckwit going "hurr sacrifice to the dark gods!"

>>49357581
This is along the lines of what I imagined. However it's hard to play this in a very cheerful group. The group consists of a Druid, Cleric and Paladin and they are only 3 of the 6 players including me. while not clashing with rest of the group by being a prophet of doom and a complete nutcase.

>>49357858
If you're going to be acting obviously suspicious, have a cover story for your weirdness. If you're honest about your GOO affiliated nature, make up that you're a researcher on alien threats and work to protect the world from them. Then you can do whatever weird shit as if it helped protects things rather than makes it worse. It sorta assumes all GOO patrons aren't known to be loyal servants though.

Is there something similar to Grimtooth's Traps but specifically for encounter building? I've been collecting (ie: stealing) really creative encounter ideas, and plan on collating all of them into a collection to hopefully throw up on Dms Guild.

Anyone have some they want to contribute?

Quality Control:
> More than one line
> 5e focused
> Does not have to be CR specific
> Can be boss fights, or interesting mook setups, or focus on terrain / external factors.

>>49351177
Bard Grappler is best grappler tho

>>49357057
>using the xp system
what the fuck!? people still do this?

Would it be better to play a monk with a 3-level dip into ranger, or a ranger with a 3-level dip into monk?

>>49356508
So....if I have a player who is singled out, gets KO'd, and fails against the Body Thief ability.

Would it be uncouth to:
> Tell the player he wakes up, somewhat near his party.
> No memory of what happened after getting KO'd
> Act normally, but subtly "guide" his actions. "You feel compelled to do this, or go there, or agree with the shady character"
> Pull one over on the entire party with or without that PC's knowledge?

If I plan on doing something like that, should I go over it with the player?

What would the ramifications be of wiping out the majority (say 80%) of a population of a city like Luskan via a magical disease?

>>49354420
From my experience, it's often easier to either remove the problem if you're the DM, or yourself if the DM is the problem.

Sometimes things can be talked out, but I'm at the point where I'm pretty jaded and all it takes is two back to back bad sessions to get me to leave a group or kick a problem player.

>>49358037
Award XP for tasks completed? Yes. Do you not?

>>49358058
Probably better as a ranger main, it's hurt less by multiclassing.

>>49357938
Hmm, that could be a way. Playing the I'm using its power against itself angle.
It's more along the lines if me wanting to play someone who either plays into his patrons plans because of what he has found out to be true about the universe. And doing this while not being the black sheep of the group seems very hard to do.

>>49358192
Like I said, just lie about what you're doing, to the opposite of the truth.

>>49358080
My guess is, since the characters brain is completely removed, he doesn't wake up at all. It's just superdead. If you want the intellect devourer to infiltrate you'd probably have to check with the player if he wants to play the intellect devourer posing as his PC.

whats better?
tallying up all the kills made by the characters, then adding modifiers for RP at the end of a session?

giving a flat XP reward at the end of a session based on how long we were playing?

or giving a flat level when they complete an important quest?

>>49358236
A regular raise dead should work though, right? I mean you have all the parts... here and there.

How does the non-burst-fire mechanic work? Do you just make a single attack?

>>49358281
>or giving a flat level when they complete an important quest?
This one. Bookkeeping XP sucks.

>>49358281
I do a variation of 1 and 3.

Basically, milestone XP / everyone levels together, but I tally up exceptional RP / creative problem solving, and usually the one or two that hit a certain threshold first level up a session or two sooner than the rest.

>>49358163
I level players at appropriate times in the story rather than adding up the amount of xp the monster they killed are worth, fuck that.

What level do you start your adventures?

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Guys, I'm a new to 5e and I need your help. We're starting a new campaign this week (second time I'll play 5e) and I want to make a vampire hunter character. So my first choice was to go fighter with monster hunter archetype, but I also want to be able to cast divine spells ("Die, monster! You don't belong in this world!" *channeling divine wrath intensifies* and all that). So should I multiclass into paladin or cleric? Or just go full paladin and take couple of fighter levels? Also, what weapon would be the best? One-handed + shield, two-handed of dual-wield? I want to focus on dealing damage, not tanking.
I know these are all very dumb questions, but I really don't know what to do.

>>49358340
90% of the time 1. 3 if they're supposed to be a more seasoned group of characters.

>>49358343
The class you are looking for is nuRanger. You literally described it to a T. Consider the night stalker archetype

>>49358282
I think not. The brain is missing.

>This spell closes all mortal wounds, but it doesn't restore missing body parts. If the creature is lacking body parts or organs integral for its survival -- its head, for instance -- the spell automatically fails.

>>49358425
Oh right it takes its place, misread I thought they just tear into it. Oh well.

>>49358343
Go full vengeance paladin. Alternatively, inquisitor rogue.

>>49358343
Deep Stalker Ranger from the UA: Ranger revision of this month.

or

Ancients Paladin + Martial Adept

or

Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter (which is essentially that)

or

Monster Hunter Fighter with Magic Initiate.

>>49358455
Yeah, that's why I called attention t it. This tiny critter can be really dangerous for low lvl parties, if not dealt with quickly.

>>49353703
Just fucking tell him to cut the shit or fuck off.

There's no magical Nerd Code that states you have to put up with the bullshit of assholes or idiots.

How you could even go longer than a fucking hour without being able to decide whether or not you can put up with someone is beyond me. Which is why I think that if this actually happened you're either stupid or the thing in your brain that allows you to make judgements about a person's behavior is broken.

Anyone want to help punish the rogue in my party for sneaking off on his own, again?

He 'snuck' away from the party. Been gone for over two hours. Found some sewers and bamf'd in via misty step. Decides to "find the exit on his own". Has rolled horribly on INT checks to keep a sense of direction, and is now lost in the sewers. We ended the last session with him attempting to cast Find Familiar to summon a rat, but was disrupted by squatty humanoids up ahead in the darkness. He cast invisibility on himself to close the session.

Does he get:

A: attacked by a Kuo-Toa death squad?
B: mauled by a hungry Otyugh?
C: slurped by by a black ooze / ichor?
D: jumped by an intellect devourer or two?

He's a 9th level Arcane Trickster, if that helps. Each one of the above scenarios fits perfectly within the setting so far.

>>49358335
>story

Oh boy.

>>49358718
>i play D&D for the combat alone
why dont you just play a video game then

>>49348943
pretty convenient, though you may occasionally still need to reference the phb for certain things in weird situations

>>49358711
>C: slurped by by a black ooze / ichor?
The most ignoble of the given deaths.

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>>49358413
>>49358474
>>49358495
>The class you are looking for is nuRanger. You literally described it to a T.
>Deep Stalker Ranger from the UA: Ranger revision of this month.
I looked into it and this new ranger looks pretty solid. He lacks this "holy" flavor I wanted, but this is more of a nitpick, rather than real downside.
>Go full vengeance paladin.
Vegeance paladin also sounds very good (even if a bit edgy). I suppose it would be better to go two-handed weapons with him?
>Ancients Paladin + Martial Adept
Seem like a nice combination, I'll remember it for later use.
>Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter (which is essentially that)
I'd prefer not to use homebrew classes this time. I'm still kinda unused to the mechanics of the system. Maybe next time.

I can't choose between ranger and paladin right now and will definitely have to think about this a little more, but you guys really helped me. Thanks!

>>49358985
>Vegeance paladin also sounds very good (even if a bit edgy). I suppose it would be better to go two-handed weapons with him?

No, you go Hand Crossbow. And your name is Dredd.

>>49358985
>He lacks this "holy" flavor I wanted, but this is more of a nitpick, rather than real downside.
You can achieve that with background information, and Magic Initiate if you really want mechanical backing.

>>49359017
Well that was unexpected... But awesome nonetheless.
>>49359043
Thanks for the tip.

What are you banning in your games and why is it the Unearthed Arcana Ranger?

>>49359202
I'm not though. Actually, both me and the ranger in the group I DM for are pretty excited about trying it out. He converted his to the new ranger, and we're giving it a test run next week. He's a Hunter though, so it's not THAT much of a change.

>>49359202
Why the hell would anyone do that?

>>49359202
Wild Sorcerer just because it slows down play a lot when I regularly have a 6 person group.

I'm banning the PHB ranger and requiring the UA ranger because the UA ranger is good.

>>49359237
He's broken, that's why.

>>49359284
[citation needed]

>>49359263
Why do you feel like wild magic slows your game down? My players are 8th level, and I houseruled it so that WM procs on EVERY spell cast outside of cantrips. All the players love it and look forward to it.

>>49359307
>[citation needed]
Common sence.

>>49358930
Does an 9th level rogue with a shortbow and a scimitar have a chance against being ambushed by a Black Pudding? CR wise, it should be a no-brainer, but between the slashing damage, and the splitting of the ooze, corrosiveness, etc.

Should be sweet.

>>49359284
Explain your reasoning, in detail.

>>49359352
Remember a perfectly valid tactic of the pudding is to spread itself along the ceiling then drop onto passers underneath. I don't think it stretches it's 1 int too far.

>>49359370
No.

>>49359430
Then you have no argument. Goodbye.

>>49359460
Okay.

As an Elf should I multiclass from Rogue -> Thief? I'm finding that I don't do nearly enough damage as my team needs and was thinking about maybe multiclassing into Ranger -> Hunter. (ranged) But I would like to hear from other Thief players first.

>>49359754
Stats? Primary Weapon?

Sneak Attack is pretty easy to get this edition, so you're damage shouldn't be TOO far behind. Multi-classing into Ranger is definitely NOT the route you want to go though, for extra damage.

>>49359237
The current ranger is fine and the new one breaks the action economy , obsoletes the rogue, is an unsanely broken multiclass dip and makes any survival campaign impossible to run.