How do you deal with your players being somewhat dumb when you

>>49319331
>Inescapable situation
>Clear plot hook
>No gear
>No awareness of the area/situation beyond 'lolurinnacage'

It's you.

>>49319331
If i was confused, I would ask them what their intention was. If they didnt have any, but wanted to see how things panned out, then I would fast forward to when the Bandits next want to interact with them. They might be drawn into a pit fight or forced to mine, or seperated and both (although thats an ass to keep track of)

Eventually the players will want to do something, or just enjoy the campaign of mining and pit fighting as slaves. And who knows, that might be the campaign they were looking for!

>>49319331
Well, you told them that

>They don't have any objects on them that allow them to just break out.

and that the guard ignores them. So they feel that perhaps they should wait and see what happens. I mean, why not? There's nothing wrong with that. At some point someone will open the door to the cage for whatever reason, and then they can do something else to escape. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with them waiting for something to happen, and while you are correct that there are still a couple of ways to "spend time", they aren't doing a wrong thing by asking you (as a fellow player and contributor to the story) to provide something Interesting to Happen.

Because "spending time" locked in a cage is usually a punishment. I can understand why they would want to skip it, as most people trying to escape prison do.

And I think this is bait.

I think the problem is you've just dangled arena combat infront of them, ofcourse they want to fast foward. If you want more interaction between players or npcs there needs to be some reason for them to do that. Maybe whispers of a mysterious fighter the appears in the arena? Some weathered old slave that can give them hints to survive?

>>49319331
well shit you just told them that they have nothing, and that if they get into a fight and win (likely, they're the PCs) that they'll get a valuable object! ofc theyre gonna wait to fight and get paid for it, thats the whole point innit

>>49319331
So what would you have done had you been one of the players?

1) Perception check to figure out whether the cage has a weakness

2) try to communicate with the slaves in the other cage

3) figure out whether the selection process for the arena battles are random or if you can join voluntarily, if they give the victor an object as a reward just as the NPC said then maybe it makes sense to get your best melee fighter into the arena, he could win something that helps the rest of the party to break out.

4) find out whether the mine is just an inescapable tunnel, some of the other slaves might now. If it is then there might be a way to take out the limited number of guards when you work in the mine without alerting the other bandits outside

5) figure out whether there is something important the bandits might need. Maybe one of them is injured and they need a healer but can't enter a town because there is a bounty on them.

6) Stage a dispute in the cage to see how the bandits react. Maybe one of them will separate the two fighting players and put one of them in the other cage which allows him to acquire some information from the other slaves. Maybe it's also possible to see anything that the party couldn't see before from the other cage.

the people above me who said "lol no idea" don't fucking know how to play DnD or any other tabletop game for that matter. There are plenty of ways to do shit even if you are locked into an inescapable prison cell without any helpful objects.

>>49319331
>They try to communicate with the guard but the guard has clear orders to ignore them

Well, the FIRST thing I'd do is call bullshit on this. Unless he's a literal robot or the group has absolutely no characters with social/talking skills, SOMEone should have the opportunity to annoy/seduce/otherwise trick the guard into coming over so that the party thief can pick his pocket for the key, or the unarmed expert (or closest to it) can grab him through the bars and disable him for the same. From there, it's your standard prisonbreak 'Now where the fuck's out equipment' scenario.

If my GM told me we couldn't do any of that despite our skills and the nearby NPC talked about an arena...yeah, I'd ask to fast forward to the part where I'm allowed to do something too. What did you have in mind?

>>49319433
well, my expectation was that they would try to get the attention of the other prisoners that were held in the other cage. If the guard shuts their communication down then maybe find a way to talk to them without the guard noticing.

>>49319444
OP said that there were other prisoners in a cage next to them. I'd try to talk to them.

>>49319476
that's equally as valid as waiting for something to happen otherwise, but dumbo GM happens to like one of these choices more than the other

>>49319387
>Because "spending time" locked in a cage is usually a punishment. I can understand why they would want to skip it, as most people trying to escape prison do.

well but if they want that shit to last as short as possible then maybe skipping forward isn't the best idea. I mean how are they ever going to be aware of their surroundings if they don't check out the cage or observe the guard? Maybe the guard has the key dangling on his belt but they just haven't cared to look at him?

>>49319508
sure, but how the fuck are they going to escape if the GM just keeps skipping forward? It would be pretty cheap if the GM just allows them to sit on the cage and then eventually hands them their escape plan on a silver plate.

>>49319512
because the characters aren't real, and it's boring for the players to have to wait through time in prison?

>>49319527
obvs they're waiting for the gladiator thing, or to be let out of the cage in another manner - once you're in a cage it's not like you spend forever it in, especially in an adventure genre. just because they're not following the GMs proscibed way to escape doesn't mean that they're plan (to wait for a better opportunity) is a bad plan. it's even a more realistic plan

>>49319553
yes. Which is exactly why they shouldn't skip forward but weigh their options and actually fucking roleplay. Like what the fuck are you even saying? That the GM is just supposed to tell them how to escape? Or create a spectacle in front of their cell? Being captured and sitting in a prison cell isn't any different than puzzle situations in a dungeon. You weigh your options and gather information on your surroundings.

>>49319331
Why are the toppings of that burger on the wrong side?

>>49319587
and their choice was to wait for something in the situation to change, because being in a cage with other slaves who have told them that

a. there might be a gladatorial combat (fuck yeah plot and combat) or be moved to a slave mine (sweet we can stage a slave revolt or find gems)

so, b. they're obviously not going to be in there very long if they decide to skip the waiting part (as players).

in a variable situation, waiting for something to change is equally as valid as forcing a change. You're basically saying that they're roleplaying wrong, despite both options (wait, or do something) being equally valid

>>49319435
1. That's more than a bit retarded. Why the fuck would the NPCs put people in a cage that cannot hold unarmed, unequipped people? If they had a prybar or lockpick or something to take advantage of a weakness, this would make sense. But as the GM specially said no, it's fucking pointless.

2. They did that, that's how they got the arena info.

3. Really? What the fuck difference does that make? if it's random, it's random. If they get to pick, no shit they'll pick the best melee fighter. Either way, this information does no good ahead of time and drags the session onward.

4. Useless information. You're not going to plan on winding up there, and if you do and it IS inescapable, knowing that ahead of time does fucking nothing.

5. Who's going to tell you that? The Indomitable Golem Guard? Or the apparently all-knowing slave captives?

6. If you can lure the guard over, you can do a shitton more than just get the party split. But again, from what we've been told that guard is going fucking nowhere.

>>49319604
the big top part of the burger is to absorb the grease from the patties. whoever is holding the burger is holding it upside down

ITT the dumb GM tries to defend himself

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>>49319671
But then the bottom flat part of the bun would be on top, and that's wrong.

>>49319658
>1. That's more than a bit retarded. Why the fuck would the NPCs put people in a cage that cannot hold unarmed, unequipped people? If they had a prybar or lockpick or something to take advantage of a weakness, this would make sense. But as the GM specially said no, it's fucking pointless.

even if the GM didn't intend for the cage to have a weakness he might be able to describe it with more detail (material, size etc.). Maybe any of the info he drops could be used to abuse a weakness that the GM hasn't thought off. Or maybe he actually planned for the cage to have a weakness that could be figured out if the players were clever enough.


>2. They did that, that's how they got the arena info.

no, they talked to the slave that was in their own cage, they never talked to the slaves in the other cage

>3. Really? What the fuck difference does that make? if it's random, it's random. If they get to pick, no shit they'll pick the best melee fighter. Either way, this information does no good ahead of time and drags the session onward.

well because maybe there is a very specific way they select their victims? Maybe if someone is disobedient in the mine. The NPC in their cell obviously fought in the arena so he could maybe tell them. If he just voluntarily joined then the solution is obvious, your best melee fighter is going to volunteer when they have the opportunity to do so. But if their selection is semi-random and they only select trouble makers then maybe your melee fighter should punch someone in their cage or cause some trouble at the mine.

>4. Useless information. You're not going to plan on winding up there, and if you do and it IS inescapable, knowing that ahead of time does fucking nothing.

knowing that ahead of the time means they can talk about it in the cell. If they are in the mine and guards are right next to them it might be hard to communicate their intentions to other slaves or other players without the guards acting up.

Maybe if you were a somewhat better GM you would start describing things in more detail while your players are stumped, and favourably some detail that the players can inspect more closely among the descriptions. And if you want the players to talk to the slaves, why can't you have the slaves start an argument by themselves or someone of them raising their voice or something to make your players focus their attention on them? Just *something* that will tell your players that the scene isn't over yet.

>>49319727
yo man youve been eating burgers wrong. It's serving flat side down, then eaten flat-up, so that the grease and sauce doesn't disintegrate the thin flat layer, but is instead absorbed by the thick top part. that's the whole point of the asymmetric cut bun

I had thought that these dms had gone out of style years ago.

The fuck do they still find players?

>>49319779
What country are you from? I've never in 27 years seen this.

>>49319454
Just because a guard isn't listening to you doesn't mean he can't hear you.
You basically set up a situation to have badass arena fighting with moral conflict and decided "But really I don't want you to do that, I want you to grasp at straws to escape even though in reality the guard would hear you scheming to do... what exactly? You already stated that there is no way to escape the cells.
You are a moron of a DM. Don't ever speak to me or my familiar again.

>>49319789
friend groups, probably - and the nerd in-group fallacy http://www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html

>>49319658
>>49319757
>5. Who's going to tell you that? The Indomitable Golem Guard? Or the apparently all-knowing slave captives?

they might. We don't know how long they've been here. It's worth a shot, if you have a party member that has a valuable skill that could help the bandits then it's definitely going to help. Especially if that party member has the freedom to travel around in the camp and get a good look at potential escape opportunities.

>6. If you can lure the guard over, you can do a shitton more than just get the party split. But again, from what we've been told that guard is going fucking nowhere.

the DM didn't set up the rule "the guard is not allowed to ever do anything no matter what happens in the cage". That is usually something you learn by talking to the guard if he just refuses to talk to you. It's very likely that if a fight breaks out in the cage that the guard has some sort of reaction.

Nobody except GMs like sessions where you're jailed or captured btw, it's always the most mind-numbingly boring shit and everyone just wants to kill themselves, except perhaps the token thief character.

>>49319794
USA, Washington state - live in Canada now

just because people do something incorrectly more often than not doesn't mean it wasn't designed to be used differently, right? like chinese food containers - they open up into a plate for whatevers inside, not just supposed to be a little bucket. if you have ever ordered and gotten one of the classic white box-buckets you can see what I mean, the sides all fold open into a squarish plate.

>>49319840
shit taste desu. Being jailed is a great way for the players to do some extensive planning and use a variety of social skills to eventually break out. It's the reverse heist. Heists are also always pretty cool.

>>49319840
This.

It is like when gms feel like they invented the wheel when you use "captured" sessions to reset gear. Shit is annoying and means we have to spend time resetting numbers or throwing out any prep time we put in for situations.

>>49319875
As a GM I never force-capture players but if the bandits they are going up against are slavers and they really fuck up their prep-work they get captured. The only alternative is a party wipe.

>>49319868
t. GM

>>49319868
yeah but in this case its "you're trapped, with no tools, and a guard nearby to watch you that you can't influence, but there's this other thing that might come up later and be fun"

and then the GM gets mad when they decide to wait for the other fun thing

>>49319897
Who the fuck said that they can't influence the guard. They just can't talk to him.

>>49319885
I can understand that.

But there are a reason why people who have been playing for years reject them like the plague. Last major campaign I was in had two jail/captured session and the second brought the game to a stop. We gave up because the dm would not move it forward and we did not see his "obvious" solution he still will not share.

>>49319911
they're in a cage

with no tools or items

how the fuck are they supposed to influence him without talking to him

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>>49319849
>like chinese food containers - they open up into a plate for whatevers inside
True, it took me 15 years to realize this because Chinese food places around me cram so much food into those boxes that they staple them shut. I think you may have given my love of burgers new meaning.

>>49319930
someone else already suggested something. Stage a fight. Maybe the bandits don't like their slaves to beat the shit out of each other if it's not in the arena. Can't hurt trying.

>>49319931
>dat webm

hey no problem my friend. try the pinkie-pinch, too, if you haven't already. thumbs and pinkies on the 'bottom' of the burger when biting (fat fluffy part), and the rest of the fingers on the flat top. Keeps the patty and stuff from sliding out the back while you bite it.

>>49319435
correct answer. Clever players will always figure out ways to gather more information on their surrounding. There must be a weakness somewhere.

>>49319942
Op stated the guard was to ignore the captives, who they use as slave labor and pit fight material.

What guard who would be trusted with this, by such a group, would give two flying fucks if one cage of idiots who might be adventurers thinned out their help they came in with?

>>49319942

and as someone else said, it can't hurt to wait for something else to happen either

>>49319963
>needing tricks to eat a fucking burger, the simplest of foods

Just use a knife and fork like normal people.

>>49319975
>Op stated the guard was to ignore the captives, who they use as slave labor and pit fight material.

yes, the same way parents would maybe instruct babysitters to ignore their child throwing a temper tantrum. I am sure that "instructed to ignore them" does not extent to absolutely everything. We are not talking about a golem guard that can not be influenced by anything.

>>49319974
this is the worst sort of advice and attitude. this is classic rolling with every skill over and over, taking 20s to find a chink on the stone, oops that's not the exit try again, endless boring 80s dungeon shit

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>>49319981

>>49319980
it can't but it's strange that there is not a single player in the group that doesn't want to gather some information. Usually every player group has players that tend to be natural leaders or problem solvers across multiple campaigns and adventures. No matter what character they play, they are usually the ones who come up with clever ideas to solve situations. But if the entire party just acts as a dead rock as soon as they lose their freedom then that tells you that this party is going to be difficult to work with as a GM. I am talking from experience.

>>49320019
wat. A good GM will just straight up tell them after the perception check "nah, you don't find anything". He won't just let them roll perception on every inch in the cell just to fuck with them.

>>49319981
>needing utensils to eat food

use a blender, pleb

>>49320056
but this gm sucks

>>49320085
well how the fuck would you know? Did you talk to the guy and actually tested it? Because "we are in a prison cell" isn't exactly something I could use to randomly judge a fucking GM.

>>49320070
>not swallowing food whole
Fucking mammals

ITT: several retards that expect the GM to just hand them their fun on a silver platter

>>49320114
>not absorbing sunlight to produce your own nutrition.
Top kek meat monsters.

>>49320121
t.buttmad op

>>49320133
no kidding
>>49320121
>>49320109
>>49320042
>>49319435
at least one of these is the GM

>>49320129
>material plane silly-billies

ethereal plane ftw

>>49320149
I am just reading what other people write. I am new to GMing so I wanted to see whether people have some advice.

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fast forwarding to the gladiator fights seems like the most fun option to me, seems like you have a pretty cool group of players
maybe the group can do so well in the fights that they are freed like Conan was, or maybe they can join the bandits

>>49320219
real talk; this game is about having fun. some people have fun solving puzzles, others have fun roleplaying dramatic situations, others like to have pretend fantasy combat

sounds like your group is the latter of that list, and that's fine, its just what they prefer

>>49319331

You're a shit GM. You shouldn't say "you don't have anything to use for an escape" and let your players experiment on their own. Maybe they'd have thought of some interesting use for something but you already killed it off prematurely.

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>>49319331
Your problem here is that you've designed an encounter that begins with no tools. The players first task isn't to get out of this situation, it's to scrounge up some tools and see what they can do with that. That shit is boring and they're letting you know that they don't want to do it by just not doing it. Since their first inquiries presented nothing of substance, now they think they're on rails and they're waiting for you to take them to their destination.

A better jail sequence would start with the players witnessing some bandits handling some other captives. During this interaction, they see one of the more veteran bandits explaining how things work around here to a newbie, then they open up a cage identical to the party's and grab some prisoners out of that, send most to the mines and a few to the pits. Now the players know what's up with their situation and they have somewhere to start. You follow this up with a good description of their surroundings, paying special attention to mention anything helpful that isn't intentionally hidden (keys on a guard's belt, tools or weapons in the room that are out of reach, etc.) THEN you let them figure this out. What I do to make this a little less overt is I use that same description to flesh out the encounter, it's sounds, it's smell, peculiar details, etc.

No one should ever have to do an investigation to find their next course of action, unless you're playing a mystery game but it doesn't sound like you are.

>>49320363
that's not what I said. They don't have any objects ON THEM to escape. I didn't literally tell them "you can't escape". Jesus christ.

>>49319587
This isn't a fuckin MUD mate. DM's job is to make the game fun, not just real fuckin hard. It takes a very special group to have every challenge be a case of making something out of nothing.

>>49319454
Who the fuck wants to talk to a bunch of useless slaves?

You gave them the "arena" deal, of course they're going to wait for that.

>>49319331
>Bandits have autonomy
>they control natural resources
>there are so many of them that they justify the existence of a fighting pit for entertainment

Why does the game take place in central Africa?

>>49320487
they are in uncharted land. Our campaign plays at the forefront of a new expanding kingdom and the group has been sent out to deal with bandit enclaves that pulled back deep into the surrounding forest. One of them captures unsuspecting adventurers and uses them as slaves and for general entertainment.

>>49319658
it's like you've never been caught in a tough or desperate situation, you aren't just going to sit there and wait to see what happens. You have to try fucking something. It's literally just handing over all of your agency to other people. Fucking bad roleplaying.

>>49320380
But you gave them an obvious plot hook for what happens next: fighting in the arena. Sure, maybe they could escape before then, but obviously they're fine with the arena option. Why are you mad that they're taking the plot hook you dangled in front of them? Did you actually not intend for them to do the arena fight? Because everyone else sees that as the obvious route.

>>49320575
But the GM already gave them the arena "out".

They're waiting for what they probably see as the only real option. Though you'd think they would've asked the one who fought in the arena a bit more about it, or what the "object" was.

Also, if anyone at all in the part has magic, then yeah, they're dumb OP.

>>49320636
no, the arena was obviously one of the many possible options. I would have just imagined that any mage or thief type character wouldn't be so keen to participate in an open melee battle. So my idea was that while the fighter characters would decide that the arena was their best option everyone else would try to figure out alternative ways to find an escape route.

>>49319331
Basically all the information you had given them at that point was that they were on rails, first two attempts yielded nothing, third attempt gave them info about a future event, if I was a player I would feel that I had arrived at the information I was supposed to arrive at and then wait for it to happen.

Basically, the more a party strikes out, the more quickly they will cling to something that comes along. I mean that is just basic human psychology. It's called settling. Sure maybe they could find something else to do, but how much time would they waste doing it when an avenue has just opened itself.

I mean, what were you expecting them to do, the old "We got a sick man in here," bit? Where are they going to get the ketchup?

>>49320732
If they have a mage, an illusion spell would probably work pretty well.

>>49320732
>Basically all the information you had given them at that point was that they were on rails

wat. They tried TWO things, talk to the NPC in the cell and talk to the guard. The NPC gave them valuable information and the guard wasn't interested in a conversation. What "first two attempts" are you even talking about. 50% of what they tried was useful.

>>49319331
You took player agency away by locking them in a cage with no tools. They interacted with the only thing around them that responded; the friendly NPC.
I assume this took a while to get to with the PCs trying in vain to figure out what they can do.
Your players grabbed the only thing available for them to interact with, waiting for the plot to arrive.
The only out you gave them was being released and it's more fun to advance to that point than it is to make a frivolous attempt to get out of the cage while risking the guard poking you with a big pointy stick for getting too rowdy.

>>49320678
Obviously your idea was wrong. If you want to DM you need to learn to react to your players defying your expectations. I find it hard to believe you were this thrown by them settling on an option you clearly gave them.

>>49320754
you act like they had a fucking monumental task in front of them or something. If I was a player in OP's campaign talking to the NPC would have been obvious.

>I assume this took a while to get to with the PCs trying in vain to figure out what they can do

how is this even hard? The GM doesn't tell the players what they can do or not do. If they want to try something they are allowed to unless the GM shuts them down for some reason.

>>49319512
>I mean how are they ever going to be aware of their surroundings if they don't check out the cage or observe the guard?
you should... just... tell them?

wow you're a bad DM. if you don't want them to skip time, describe EVERY SINGLE DETAIL. Start big, then start getting more and more specific.

PS how were they "supposed to" escape?

>>49320787
>If you want to DM you need to learn to react to your players defying your expectations

this is actually the opposite, you are being very disingenuous when you make it sound like I was thrown off by their behavior. I was actually extremely stumped by how easy they tried to make it for me. Skipping forward to the arena cuts out all the prep work I did for the other options I thought off and doesn't even force me to improvise anything for solutions I didn't plan.

>>49320743
Assuming this is D&D, they probably took his components.

>>49320790
You are a fucking retard if you actually DM like that. The DM gives obvious information to its players. He doesn't fucking describe problems to solutions back to the players, that's railroading.

"Oh you guys are in the cage but you found a lockpick under some straw. What do you want to do?"

As a GM you describe the general impression of the area and let players ask for specific information themselves.

>not starting the campaign with a jailbreak
>not having them traverse through the sewers
>not having them come up to a tavern to talk and pick up a quest

It doesn't matter how cliche it is, shit's always fun.

>>49320832
/tg/ is full of turbo-autists that will tell you that prison-breaks are never fun in tabletop roleplaying games. I've been in multiple threads here that discussed this topic and it's been the same shit every single time. "hurr durr it's boring to just sit around". Yeah? It is? Maybe try to come up with a plan you pretentious douchebag instead of waiting for the GM to hand you the key through the bars.

>>49320798

>Skipping forward to the arena cuts out all the prep work I did for the other options I thought of

Welcome to being a DM. Some prep work gets wasted sometimes. They want to do the arena, so let them. What's the problem?

>>49320857
listen, I don't really have a problem with it in terms of DMing, I know that not all of my prep-work will come into play. But I imagined that the players know that the arena isn't exactly a great place to be for non-Fighter characters.

>>49320788
You are very excellent good yes at making the speech respondings. Many great reading done!

>If they want to try something they are allowed to unless the GM shuts them down for some reason
Did you even read the OP? Sure maybe they could have done more, they chose the sensible route though. Not everyone is going to polymorph into a dinosaur, trampling their comrades, most likely in the middle of a bandit emcampment with a guard on watch.
Especially after being shown what most people with the ability to understand social cues would see as a plot hook.

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>>49319981
>knife and fork
>for a fucking burger
I bet you cut up pizza into bite-size pieces, too, heathen.

>>49320849
Nah, I disagree. The best is when they're all in a cell. You tell them that there seems to be no apparent way out. (This phrasing is important.)

Either they take it upon themselves to find a way out (and you let them), or, after a couple of turns of their characters getting to know each other, you let an opportunity arise or raise the stakes to force them to act.

Personal favorites are hearing screaming down the corridor, the prison is suddenly on fire, the town is under siege so explosions are happening, organized prison breaks, flooding, whatever fits and feels right.

OP just doesn't know how to DM.

>>49320873
Depending on the system, you might be underestimating what casters are capable of in single combat. "Squishy mage who needs a meatshield" is not the most accurate stereotype.

Either way, they decided to take the risk. Now they face the consequences, good or bad.

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>>49319779
>yo man youve been eating burgers wrong.

>>49320750
Trying to break out, regardless of whether they tried to break out first or if the DM told from the get go they wouldn't be able to so don't bother trying (which if you did that is terrible dming) regardless that is the first idea out the window.

So then they try to get the guard involved. And if you want to get nitpicky I'll get nitpicky to shit, they could have had god knows how many ides to escape that involved the guard, bargaining with him, bluffing him, pick pocket, you could have quashed attempts two through fifty all at once. They talk to the NPC and they get information, information that seems to lead to what will happen next.

>>49320830
If you think these are the onl two ways to describe a scene than you really don't know anything about anything. Say what you will about adventure modules and boxed text, but read it sometime, you'll see it describes a lot of clues and points of interest that guide the players on where to start searching. Otherwise you might as well be playing Where's Waldo with a blindfold.

>>49320830
Think of it like a Point and Click Adventure. A good P&C has visual clues about what might be worth checking out. The book sitting out on the table versus the hundreds on the shelves. You won't know what's in the book until you check it out but at least you know it's there. A bad P&C has you clicking on everything until something randomly gives you what you need to proceed.

>>49321220
the issue is that I've done it like that in a previous sessions but usually the players instantly figure out that that's the item they are supposed to use even though it's not the only solution to the problem.

>>49321264
What were the solutions to the cage that you had for them or at least wanted them to try?

>>49320575
>you aren't just going to sit there and wait to see what happens.
You might. Granted, it's a good idea to see how much you can do before then, but sitting quietly and watching for an opportunity (to escape, to get ready for an escape, whatever) is a decent idea. A lot of the time in prison situations time is the one thing you have plenty of.

>It's literally just handing over all of your agency to other people. Fucking bad roleplaying
No its not. Good roleplaying doesn't require that you maintain your agency 100% of the time, it requires that you do what your character would do (and good roleplaying in a group is doing so without impinging on anyone else's fun or agency without their permission).

If your character would sit and wait, and the other players are fine with that, then I see nothing wrong with that plan.

>>49319331
why the meat is so shiny?

>>49320798
>I was actually extremely stumped by how easy they tried to make it for me
They did something you didn't expect and that surprised you. Maybe you have a different definition of the word "thrown" than that anon and I but it sounds like that applies (thrown a relatively lesser degree) to this situation.

And as for skipping prep work, that's DMing. Also, consider they may have been trying to help you there because they may have assumed you only prepped the arena fight and might not want to ad-lib something before it.

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>>49321286
the reason the guard ignored them was because he was deaf. Now that sounds stupid for a guard but the reason the bandits did it that way was to make sure that the guard could not be bargained with or tricked by resourceful adventurers. If they had figured out that this was possible they could have struck up a conversation with the other prisoners but pretended to look at the guard so it seems as if they were just trying to talk to him. Through their conversation with the other prisoners they could have found out about what exactly they were mining in the mine if they care to ask. It was a compound used by the bandits to develop some drugs that were shipped in the nearby city (the players already came in contact with that drug earlier). The reason the drug was banned was because it happened to be highly explosive in conjunction with its addictive nature. Since they were basically in a place where the drug was farmed they could have tried to to look out for any sign of the drug and use it to blast open the door the next time the guards brought them back to their cells. This would also allow them to wait for an opportunity where the deaf guard turns around to look at the other prison cell and blast their way out when he wasn't looking. He would not hear the explosion and they could take him out before he had the chance to ring the alarm bell.

>>49321442
... bruh.

>>49319331
I'm sorry, I can't concentrate on your question because that's a nice ass looking burger. The fuck did you get that?

>>49321264
The trick is to describe a bunch of things of interest. If the book is the solution you don't just describe the room and mention the book, you also mention another book hidden under something, a bag somewhere, a strange looking lamp, etc.

If you just describe one thing in detail then of course it's important.

If you describe nothing other than a vague overview of the room then they need to waste player time asking about "do I see anything there? What about there?" and a lot of players (not all, just a lot) don't like to do that.

>>49321442
While that's a nice plan, it's especially vulnerable to the players just not picking up on something (the guard being deaf is both the most useful and the easiest to miss) and missing out.

>>49321442
Yeah, that's not convoluted or anything. No, sir. They were just supposed to read your mind. How hard can it be?

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>>49321442
I got to the 5th sentence before realizing you're fucking with us.

>>49321564
I am not fucking with you. That would have been the quickest solution that doesn't involve major bloodshed

>>49321572
>Quickest
>Extremely convoluted moon logic relying on players making the exact right assumptions about highly specific and obscure logic
>Then doing things the exact same way you saw it in your head.

Yeah, about that...

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>>49321572
That's more convoluted than the average Ace Attorney plot. There's no way you're the OP.

Basically what >>49320732 said. The way you described the situation led your players to believe to believe they had no other choice given the scenario, complete with a "this is what happens next" option which translates to players as "this supposed to happen next." Your word choice is partially to blame here. Telling your players they have "no objects on them to escape" could very easily translate as "there are no objects to escape with." Instead saying simply that the PCs have none of their equipment might have served better, as that could lead more naturally into a player deciding to look for something that can do what their equipment could have which allows you greater opportunity to describe their and maybe give them some hints as to what they can do. Further, saying the guard has "clear orders to ignore them" is very discouraging to players. A better way of putting it might have been "the guard pretends not to have heard you" or "the guard doesn't seem to want to talk to you." This may have encouraged your players to try something else to persuade the guard into talking to them; the way you handled it made it seem to your players that you were shutting them down entirely. Also, the slaves in the other cage. If you wanted your players to talk to them so badly, why didn't you have the slaves start the conversation? Then the guard might shut it down, but it puts the idea in your players mind that they should try to find another way to communicate.

>>49321583
I am the OP and I'm not fucking with you.

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>>49321590

In fact, I might argue that you made the situation too bleak as to encourage creative thinking. You put them in a box with nothing useful with a guard that won't be spoken to watching them all the while, some other prisoners across the way of disputable import, and an NPC that gave them a clear idea of what happens if they just wait. (Keep in mind that the first solution to a problem that players come up with is usually the one they stick with, even if it isn't the best.) An inescapable prison is one of the telltale signs of railroading, so the more inescapable you make your prison seem, the more inclined they will be to do nothing: that's the way they've been trained. Maybe if there was some obvious weakness that could be exploited: keys on the wall, a weak window they could reach if only they could reach it, etc, that might have given them a direction to start in. Maybe if there wasn't a guard there at the start, but it was implied one would show up then your players would be more inclined to try something quickly or try to take advantage of the guard once he got there. Alternatively, if the guard left at some point, your players may have tried bolder strategies like talking to the other prisoners. Maybe the prisoners could have some escape plans in the works that they want to tell the players because "they look capable."

These would all be things that would encourage more creative thinking, something that doesn't come naturally to all players and definitely NOT something that should be expected out of the gate. I'm not saying you make everything easy so your players can figure it out, but if you want to encourage certain behavior in your players , then it is on YOU to facilitate a situation where it is sufficiently obvious and worthwhile to do so.

>>49319779
Except no respectable burger bun (that has been toasted or grilled) will disintegrate under sauce or grease. Plus, flipping it upside down ruins the order of ingredients hitting your tongue.

>>49319331
Idk man there's always something you could try I guess. I fucking hate getting captured though and its happened enough times I'd rather just resist and have my character die.

>>49319331

It's your fault as well as your players.

Look if I was your player, I'd wait to be dragged to the mines. It's the area most likely to have weapons that can be improvised as well a place to sneak out from as it would probably have wagons or boxes and shit, to hide and crap.

Yes, your players could've asked around for more info, but I don't know, how exactly that went down. Did you just info dump with the NPC or what? Did they ask questions of the slaves but you only interpreted it to mean just the slaves in their cell, Shit like that is important context.

I don't know your GMing style so I know if your the type of DM that makes his players go I look for traps on the door, on the floor in front of the door, in the door jam, and finally the door lock. So maybe somebody said they asked around and you just gave that little bit of exposition.

Secondly, volunteer more shit, if they tried talking to the guard, have one of the the other cells volunteer that the fucker is deaf.

>>49319331
>They don't have any objects on them that allow them to just break out.
You just old them they can't break out. What were you expecting them to do?

>>49319331
> ITT: OP is a chimp that doesn't understand that when a DM lacks a description for an area, it is to be assumed that the area itself is unimportant and to be ignored until the real point comes along.

Let me show you.

"You all hit quite the spot of misfortune last night. For whatever your personal reasons, the lot of you had found yourselves in a traveling caravan. Maybe some of you were paid to guard it and were just trying to earn a living. Maybe you were along for the ride because the last cit didn't take to you well. Whatever the case, none of you could have been quite prepared for the descent of an entire raiding party upon your pair of wagons. Your capture was quick; there was little to do in the face of sheer numbers against you, and the bandits had already bled several of those that had panicked and acted before thinking. Though bleak, you knew your chances were better off if you were to play the part of their prisoner and wait for them to drop their guard to make your escape."

Imply that their prerogative is to escape. Suggest that 'when things are like this, actions like this would probably be easier.' This is a rather heavy handed version, but I don't expect subtlety to come quickly.

"The cell you find yourselves in is quite sturdy for what a bunch of robbing thieves could manage. Thick iron bars larger than your thumb surround your group, with a metal roof and floor completing your imprisonment. A tarp is spread out above the cell as a tent and so to block some of your view of vision, the rope and cloth well out of reach of any of your cellmates. The guards, who patrol the area regularly, don't seem to interact with the prisoners unless they are taking them to and from their cells, clearly on orders not to interact with the captures. These criminals have done this before, removing all of your equipment save for a few dirty rags with which you clothe yourselves. LUCKILY, they made a mistake- all the prisoners can communicate just fine."

>>49321818
I didn't tell them that. I am saying that the premise is that they don't have any tools on them that allow them to do that. I am telling this to you, the guy reading it on /tg/. Obviously when we were playing I didn't say "lol you can't get out". Actually, if any of them had passed a dexterity check they could have kept a hand-sized object out of their inventory when they got captured.

>>49321821
Just to clarify on this- the description offered is only meant for your one dimensional idea of how an escape should go. Realistically, breaking out as an individual is much easier. Less of a commotion to be made, more able to take advantage of unique opportunity, etc. But if your neanderthalic need to insist on team escape plans is so great, then at least show your group that 'this is what I want you to do and how I want you to play,' because you've already shown you lack the ability to adapt to other ideas on how to go about things.

>>49321821
>LUCKILY, they made a mistake- all the prisoners can communicate just fine.

that sounds like an unfortunate way of putting it. Why would you formulate that as a "mistake"? A mistake is if they leave the cell doors open.

>>49321858
an awful lot of assumptions about me with empty air and pointless insults. I never prevented them from trying anything. There is no clear solution I offer them that I WANT them to follow. I was just describing one of the possible solutions that I had that would be the cleanest. I would have rolled with anything they tried. But they didn't really try anything, they just went with what was obvious. And it wasn't even a real escape plan, it was just the opportunity to get some fights going and an object. Maybe that object isn't even pivotal to their escape, who knows.

>>49321859
because OP has proven that he doesn't like it when players don;t understand his non description. I've offered the least fortunate way of resolving his problem- with a superman-tier panel narration of events as they should obviously unfold on screen. Any more of a hint than this on what he wants the players to do, and he might as well be playing himself by writing a book.

>>49321891
the OP didn't say that, I have no idea what you are even saying. The only thing I read in this thread is that the OP was frustrated with the fact that his players didn't try anything other than engage in the arena fight which is obviously not a good way of going about it if your character isn't good at melee fights. And I agree, unless the campaign was piss easy up to that point I, if I had player a character that isn't melee proficient, would have tried to talk the others out of the idea to just go for an arena fight.

>>49321878
Well you clearly and utterly failed at showing that to your players, elsewise you wouldn't be bitching about it here. I'm assuming that you don't understand the basics of leading a game here and am offering the cleanest way of starting. As for the chip on my shoulder, maybe I just don't enjoy seeing DMs blame the players for their failure to define the area. Rather than assume a room full of people playing a game with you are all lacking in the ability to process information, perhaps you need to look at your delivery first.

>>49321581
>Extremely convoluted moon logic solution
>Requires that players read the GM's mind to progress

It's a common mistake for both GMs and game-designers trying to write puzzles.

>>49321922
>the players are always right and if they don't try to engage with anything it's the DM's fault

OP, please don't listen to this clown. Depending on how new your players are it might have just been inexperience.

>>49321933
> I couldn't get a single one of the people at my game to catch on to my super amazing convoluted bullshit. It's their fault, not my lack of ability to describe!

Enjoy never running coherent games, then.

>>49321963
you are a pretty inexperienced GM if you think every group of players figures out solutions to a problem even if you give them all the hints they need. That's just the way it is.

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So in this thread, the GM tried to ask a question and was willing to admit they were wrong, meaning they genuinely wanted help.

After a bunch of insults and whatnot, the consensus is that waiting was the most attractive option, especially given the arena thing. It was also agreed that the GM fucked up in 1. His handling of the whole scenario and 2. Having a capture scenario in the first place, which everyone hates.

GM defends himself a bit, unless that was a troll pretending to be the GM at the end, revealing that he expected too much of his players.

This anon would like to add that in tabletops, what might seem obvious to an uninvolved observer could be very unclear to players. As others have said, investigation in RPGs is a big no-no, you want the solution to any problem to be somewhat obvious.

/thread

>>49322013
>others

as in one autist who keeps shitting up the thread ignoring all the other people who agree that the players maybe could have tried a little more than just straight up waiting. GMs are generally not accountable for unimaginative players.

>>49319331
As a player, I would start asking a few annoying questions.

>What is the guard that is ignoring us wearing in terms of armor and weapons?
>Does it look like he has the key to our cage?
>Do any of the others know if they let us out of the cage to walk around a bit?

But yeah: since I play melee characters mostly I would vote to skip to the arena fighting after a bit.

Because the group lacks option: you didn't call for any perception/search checks to see if there is a section of the bars that they can weaken and destroy to escape. You didn't give them any diplomacy/deception check to talk the guard and lure him to the cage to knock him out and take his stuff. You didn't let them know if any of the NPCs had anything useful and if they could do something to gain his trust and whatever thing he has that they could use.

You had only one solution to the scenario you invented, which is like most other fa/tg/uys already said, pretty convoluted. AND it also required them going to the mines in the first place to get the chemical they needed to explode their cage. So they went ahead and timeskip to the point where they can advance the plot and you start to complain about it... I don't really understand, you know? You should've been happy that they decided to timeskip, so you could send them to the mines and give them the explodey drug they can use to blow up the lock and escape!

tl;dr: OP, you're complaining about a non-issue. Stop whining: your players are bored of being captured and want to get the fuck out!

>>49321976
fine. have a dark void. no sound, no feeling, no senses make their way through. you don't know if anyone else is. you have none of your abilities. get out. get out. get out. get out. does what work? no. that isn't an option. no, they don't respond.

surprise! the answer was the first 77 parts of hamlet's dialogue spoken backwards in french. what do you MEAN you didn't get that? with all the lack of sense representing death, and even the inky blackness RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU! You're clearly wrong here, and I'M SUPER SMART AND CREATIVE.

This is the bullshit you're defending. I'm not even gonna fight this one out anymore. Folks like you just don't want to attempt to self improve.

>>49322039
>You had only one solution to the scenario you invented

no I fucking hadn't. Why the hell do I have to repeat myself on that. It was the perfect solution if you want to avoid as much bloodshed as possible and don't want to put your party at risk. There were plenty of other ways to escape that they could have figured out.

>>49322053
boy you sound mad just because you are so shit as a player or GM to come up with any solution to a problem that doesn't just involve a single perception check and whoops you are out of the prison cell. Fucking carebears on my /tg/, what a joke.

>>49322073
Like what, for example?

>>49322094
The other prisoners hid a metal bar in their midst that none of the bandits had found. They smuggled it out of the mine. The issue was that none of them were strong enough to use it to break open their cell door. They could be persuaded to hand it over to your cell, the only issue was that it would definitely alert the guard near the cells since he would alternate between looking at one of the cells and handing the metal bar over would require both of the prisoners to reach out, one of them giving the bar, the other one taking it. Eventually some of the bandits show up and a fight breaks out. The players could then preemptively decide to break out some of the other prisoners to either create enough of a distraction to escape or fight their way out with everyone else.

>>49322171
>The other prisoners hid a metal bar in their midst that none of the bandits had found. They smuggled it out of the mine. The issue was that none of them were strong enough to use it to break open their cell door.
And the players didn't know this when they started talking to the other prisoners? Why did you not volounteer the guy with the bar to tell the PCs "Hey, I have this bar here, but I'm not strong enough to use it: you look strong enough though. Can you free us all, if I hand it over"?

You had told them they have no tools, yet you also didn't give them this option: instead of whining that they are waiting for something interesting to happen, you should've told them what I just wrote this NPC would say to them.

>Eventually
Stopped reading right there.
You're basically saying right here that you were waiting to give them this opportunity to escape and when they very clearly tell you that they wait for such a situation and you do not use this to further the plot.

My original point stands: you are whining about a non-issue. Your players are definitely not stupid: they realized that they were lacking the tools they need and decided to wait for an opportunity to gain said tools.

>>49322236
>And the players didn't know this when they started talking to the other prisoners?

They DIDN'T talk to the other prisoners. They talked to the one NPC in their own cell. No one else. They never even attempted to communicate with the other prisoners.

>Why did you not volounteer the guy with the bar to tell the PCs "Hey, I have this bar here, but I'm not strong enough to use it: you look strong enough though. Can you free us all, if I hand it over"?

because that would be retarded. Why would the other prisoners trust some random guys that were just thrown into a cell next to them? For all they know those fuckers just break out and leave them to rot where they are. It would first need some convincing to actually get them to hand over that metal bar.

>Stopped reading right there.
>You're basically saying right here that you were waiting to give them this opportunity to escape and when they very clearly tell you that they wait for such a situation and you do not use this to further the plot.

are you fucking retarded? They show up because the guard was alerted. If the prisoners hand over the bar there is no way to do it without the guard seeing it. He will ring the bell and eventually the other bandits show up. How the fuck can you possibly misunderstand that.

>>49321442
...so in other words the correct solution to escaping starts with waiting until they're carried to the next location.

Which is what the players did.

I don't think you even understand your own plot, OP.

>>49322270
As I said, it's not the only solution. But if they don't communicate with the other prisoners they will probably never find out about it because they wouldn't actually know that the shit they are mining has to do with that drug. And asking them in a mine with a bunch of guards might prove difficult without getting your head bashed in.

>>49322264
>because that would be retarded.
Not as retarded as whining about players taking the logical conclusion to wait for a good opportunity to escape.

I agree with you on one point: they should've attempted to communicate with the other prisoners.
But this still does not excuse you: you did not give any of the PCs spot checks to see that the other prisoners had this metal bar to maybe break out of the cages. And you did not have the NPC prisoner in their cage tell them about it.

It may happen that PCs ignore NPCs, that is why you have to be proactive and have the other prisoners talk with the party first.

You can stop with the ad hominem, it is disgraceful.

>They show up because the guard was alerted. If the prisoners hand over the bar there is no way to do it without the guard seeing it. He will ring the bell and eventually the other bandits show up. How the fuck can you possibly misunderstand that.

So if they actually go for the opportunity you gave them to break out they will get their shit pushed in because the guard never lets them out of his sight?
So it doesn't matter if they even get so far as to get the bar, they will have to fight the bandits, right?

>>49322339
>PCs spot checks to see that the other prisoners had this metal bar to maybe break out of the cages

yes, because obviously if the guards that sit there every day can not figure out that they've hid a metal bar in their cell then some random fucks that just showed up and sit even further away than the guard can spot it.

>So if they actually go for the opportunity you gave them to break out they will get their shit pushed in because the guard never lets them out of his sight? So it doesn't matter if they even get so far as to get the bar, they will have to fight the bandits, right?

where is the fucking problem? If they have no issue with fighting the bandits then yes, this is the solution they could go for. If they figure out that it's too risky to fight then they could have gone for something else. I am not hand-holding the players into doing anything, I just provide them with opportunities if they actually care to talk to NPCs or observe their surroundings.

The correct answer to the players saying they wait would've been "after a while one of the prisoners in the other cells approaches you. he tells you that you look like a pretty strong guy, he has a metal bar you can use to escape and he'll give it to you if you let them out too". There is no reason to assume the NPCs wouldn't be proactive about their escape when they see the chance and have the means.

>>49322381
but this would imply that the world revolves around the player characters. In reality the other prisoners would keep the metal bar for themselves since they probably can't trust the new guys.

>>49322398
They can't use the tool themselves, you already said so. The PCs are their peers and inherently trustworthy because they most likely want to escape too. Even if they didn't completely trust the PCs they have nothing to lose by trying to convince them to help them.

>>49322425
how are they inherently trustworthy. What tells them that they won't just break open their own cell and then leave? They still need them to open their own cell door and if they just hand over the metal bar like that they won't have an opportunity to ever get it back, even if someone gets thrown into their cell that could potentially use it.

>>49322368
>yes, because obviously if the guards that sit there every day can not figure out that they've hid a metal bar in their cell then some random fucks that just showed up and sit even further away than the guard can spot it.
That's what I think too. That is why you should've been proactive and have the NPCs interact with the PCs first. I agree that the players should've talked to them, but they did not. If that happens, you have to give them a little push.

>If they have no issue with fighting the bandits then yes, this is the solution they could go for. If they figure out that it's too risky to fight then they could have gone for something else. I am not hand-holding the players into doing anything, I just provide them with opportunities if they actually care to talk to NPCs or observe their surroundings.
That's two variables and you didn't account for PCs. The first law of GMing is: no plan survives contact with the party.

And my point still stands: they interacted with the NPC that you had placed beside them and they learned that if they wait for the arena, they will have the opportunity to escape. They decided that that's what they wanted to do and now you are whining that they said "Ok, we figured out what we want. We wait until we are called for the pit."

You are basically crying foul because the players do not explore the only other way they could've escaped, by interacting with the other prisoners. When they already had a plan to escape, albeit rough.

Tl;dr: stop complaining. If you want the players to interact with another NPC they aren't interested in, you have to have the NPC talk first.

>>49322398
But the world DOES revolve around the players. You only get the game from their perspective, without them, the game doesn't exist. That doesn't mean you pander to the players and solve everything for them, but it DOES mean that when you want them to act proactively, you give them some sort of direction that such a thing is worth the effort. Throwing them into a problem and saying "figure it out" sounds like a good way of running a no-hands-held game, but that only works for certain, very rare, players.That's like putting an actor on stage and saying "Act." Even the best improv performer in the world be confused, he has no idea what you want. That's what players are going through in any sort of puzzle scenario. They might try to solve it in-character, but on a subconscious, meta-level, they are trying to figure out what you, the GM, have decided is the solution, as they know that will be the most well thought-out answer. The reason they chose as they did is because YOU made it seem like that was the correct solution. That is on you.

So, you can either make your game "realistic" and then be upset when your players don't act the way you would prefer, or you can throw in a couple stupid plot conveniences once in awhile in order to create the type of game you want to be playing. You get to have way more fun when you point your players in the direction you want them to go rather than expect they do it for you. That doesn't mean railroad them, it means that it is on you and you alone to create an atmosphere conducive to the game you want to be playing.

>>49322436
It's a risk they have to take or be stuck forever waiting in their cell. Again, they literally have nothing to lose by cooperating and everything to gain. You can't take the initiative if you are too afraid of potential risks, OP.

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>>49321572
>that doesn't involve major bloodshed
Shit plan.
>>49321442
Further, the guard has no obvious signs of deafness and you said he had "clear orders to ignore them". NOW, a naturally deaf guard would have had the orders given to him prior, so it couldn't have been clearly ordered. A non-naturally deaf guard would either be given notes the same fucking way (inner ear damage) or not need them at all (no ears); because when you cut someones ears off for a long term job, they'll never not do that job. Further, how do the other slaves know what's in the mines? They'd be stored either in the mines entrance or literally where they work if they were slaves, so as to minimise transport time and prevent wandering do-gooders busting them out. As such, these slaves likely would be fresh recruits, or the mines resource should've been one the party can tell from the residue on the slaves skin or by residue in the local area from where they were captured and led to the cages. Something you probably should've told them when you set the scene. Lastly, and most damning is this line.
>Since they were basically in a place where the drug was farmed they could have tried to to look out for any sign of the drug and use it to blast open the door the next time the guards brought them back to their cells.
First, they have no tools available to them, as such no way to detonate the drug without massive self harm.
Second, this implies they're leaving and returning to the cage, something that could only happen if they WAITED
Third, this implies any self-respecting slaver would allow the PC's to smuggle it back into their cell. They can't carry it in with their hands, and if this drug trade is as lucrative as a let's say 15 minimum mining slave operation + guards they're not so stupid as to let you hide it in your armpits. Hell, they may not even have clothes, and shoving it in one of their holes may cause the drug to enter the bloodstream.

>>49322535
>clear orders to ignore them

that's what the players figured. That's not what I said. They thought he was ordered to ignore them, that's the conclusion they drew. I am just repeating back to you as the reader of the thread what conclusions they made.

Guys, guys

This is the GM that posted the "how do you make your players feel powerless" thread a few days back.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/49254895/#49255142
"Like let's say our group of heroes gets captured by bandits and turned to slaves, caged inside a mine."

He's getting pissed because his inescapable jail cell isn't taking more than 30 seconds long for the players to say "nah, pass".

This is actually friggin' hilarious.

>>49322632
I see a prison cell discussion on /tg/ at least once a week.

>>49322632
Ahah oh wow that *is* funny. OP you got busted!

>>49322572
>>49319331
>They try to communicate with the guard but the guard has clear orders to ignore them.

Boy next you're going to tell me that they actually did have tools, they just never bothered to specifically check their pockets.

How were they supposed to figure out the guard was deaf? Did you imply he was more than simply ignoring them when they tried to talk to him? Did the other bandits communicate to him in sign language? Or were you just waiting for one of them to ask "is the guard deaf?"

>>49322855
The guard just didn't react at all. When they tried to talk to them I said: "The guard seems to not be bothered in the slightest by your attempts to communicate with him, in fact he doesn't even seem to notice that you were talking at all."

You've created a chokepoint and not given your players enough scope while shutting down the only thing they did try. You've forced your players into a helpless situation which most of the time is a mega no and you wonder why they feel helpless.


You need to use the three clue rule. There needs to be at least 3 ways to escape that cage and the players need clues that point to it.

>1. Trick the guards who are playing cards
>2. Convince other prisoners to help break out
>3. Break open/pick lock on cage bars.

Likewise encourage dialogue with the other prisoners. The module out abyss does this all really well

>>49322875
I think you're failing to realize why the guard being deaf doesn't make sense.

There was a cage with 20 slaves, and they were all being quiet and not taking advantage of the fucking deaf guard, which if the PCs were supposed to notice surely ONE of them would have.

The fact that the salves weren't talking and none of them figured it out is obvious evidence that the guard wasn't, in fact, deaf.

In other words, you fucked up because you didn't think the implications of your (and feel free to imagine airquotes here) "puzzle" though.

Granted, it's a small fuckup, and the players' solution isn't even something you should be bothered about in the first place.

>>49322982
The prisoners were talking. Just not to the PCs

>>49322999
And none of them said "Oi, fuck'eads, the guard's afookin' jobba' m8. Swear on me mum."? And somehow, if just talking with the prisoners would have magically lead to a solution the prisoners hadn't already fucking escaped by talking amongst themselves?

>>49322999
So, they were complete assholes who didn't tell the new guys the guard was deaf?

>>49323026
>if just talking with the prisoners would have magically lead to a solution the prisoners hadn't already fucking escaped by talking amongst themselves?

well, the bandits figured that there was no way to actually prevent them from making plans anyway, they could just whisper among each other even with a guard who wasn't deaf. The deaf guard was just a way to prevent bribes from happening, they are bandits afterall. Better have some guy there who can't make any deals than someone who gets convinced to open the fucking cell because some noble cunt promises him the world.

>>49322925
OP could also describe that some of the bars are loosened, from other prisoners rattling them. This would give the players a way to force their way out, if all else fails.

>>49323038
well I didn't say that being a prisoner stops you from being a dick.

>>49322999
Anytime during play or in my notes I"ve created a situation where my NPC's are just talking to one another or fighting one another or doing anything that doesn't involve the players in the scene I always make sure there is a good reason.

Nobody likes sitting through an unskippable cutsce e.

>>49319331
I came in here hoping OP would be talking about food at the table, or greasy burger fingers, or a lack of coasters or something. I was very disappointed.

And yes, it's your fault. If they aren't reacting how you want them to and you feel the need to shut them down when they DO try something, it's your fault. Give what they were doing a chance or find a way to engage them, make something happen. You had at least 12 NPC's to work with.

>>49323202
I wasn't shutting them down. The arena was a perfect valid option. Just very unimaginative and bland that they jumped on it immediately

>>49322572
>that's what the players figured.
Presenting it as fact here was a mistake, if you say he had clear orders then it will be assumed that there was a clear indication of this. If you present the misinformation that the party concluded to us as fact and then say that it was wrong you only present yourself as a misleading communicator and some people will assume this happened with the party as well.
Where as you may have a point about them missing the other options this thread was off to a bad start.

>>49323225
If you didn't want them to go with the arena (which seems to be the case given you made an entire thread to bitch about it) then why did you even make it an option in the first place?

>>49322999

If they are talking to each other, PCs do not need to try conversation to slaves in the other cell. Slaves in the same room with PCs could tell them their escape plan.

>>49323225
>Just very unimaginative and bland that they jumped on it immediately

The only people worse than the players in this situation is the person who presented them with such an unimaginative and bland option!

>>49323442
>/tg/
>where the DM is always wrong and the players are always right

>>49321442
No way you're not a fucking woman

>>49323447
Most dms are terrible.

Although so are most players.

>>49320271
This guy either is, or could be a good GM.

Since being a good GM means entertaining your players while not boring yourself.
It doesnt matter if you break the rules; theyre just guidelines anyhow.

>>49323502
if we don't have rules to guide us all then what's left? Chaos. A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all.

>>49323506
>If I write all fancy-like, my point will be unassailable.

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>>49323378
You seem like a man with enough brain cells to DM properly. Take me~

>>49323447
t. OP

>>49320380
>that's not what I said. They don't have any objects ON THEM to escape. I didn't literally tell them "you can't escape". Jesus christ.
They arent naked, right?

So they have some things on them?

Maybe they'd have come up with something interesting but you told them - don't bother trying to escape, everything you've got is useless.

Same with the guard - you told them not to bother trying anything because he was totally ignoring them no matter what.

You start by stifling their creativity and then complain that they aren't trying stuff? What a dick.

>>49321442
>He would not hear the explosion and they could take him out before he had the chance to ring the alarm bell.
That's retarded. He'll still feel the pressure wave.

>>49323447
What kind of retarded DM presents the players with options and then complains about them taking one of them?

>There are three doors in front of the party.
>Party opts to go for the one in the middle.
>Fucking players! Behind the other doors was a god-damned unicorn and the other had a genie who would grant them wishes!

>>49324066
Why is the unicorn damned? Did it fuck the virgin or something?

>>49325002
>Why is the unicorn damned?

It picked the wrong door.

>There are three doors in front of the unicorn.
>Unicorn opts to go for the one on the left.
>Fucking unicorns! Behind the other doors was an orc guarding a chest and the other had a dragon that breathed radioactive dust!

It's all doors.

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>>49321442

>>49319387
>Bait

The fuck kind of 4D bait threads does /tg/ get? Our shit posters can barely string together sentences before tripping on 'cuck', 'steven', or "company fag".

t. /co/ visitor

>>49325687
/tg/ is a quality board, with quality shitposts.

>>49319331
Your first mistake was to tell them the plot hook right away, as well as tell them they have no way to internally get out of the cage.

When you said "They bring the prisoners to fight in an arena or work in the mines" the players heard "I have an arena or mine encounter planned, where you will have a better opportunity to escape."

It's only reasonable that they'd want to skip ahead to a more exciting scenario then just sitting in a cage.

>>49326990
How to deal with players that refuse to "fast forward" when a player is crippled or injured ?

Suddenly they have an urge to do day-to-day jobs and "how much do I earn for milking cows today?"

Also; the injured player just kind of accepts it.

RP grinds to a halt after a few SESSIONS (hours hours of everday life shit).

If I try to do a "suddenly a grenade in the room" moment they all deal with the threat, go back to the daily routines of collecting apples, pestering the injured character and rustle cows, and are now expecting more "exciting random grenades" are going to appear.

What do.

>>49327124
Point taken.

>>49319331

Waiting to see what happens does have its merits. With that said
>I could talk more to the other prisoner (what are the mines like, what are the routines here, what object did you get?)
>I could try to fast-talk the guards into making a mistake. Sure they got orders to ignore me, but I might have social skills that lets me trick them into forgetting their orders and committing a mistake
>I might stage an incident to make the guards check on me to make them open the bars for me
>I might try to fashion some sort of tool or weapon
>I might start peeing on the door handle just to mess with the guard's head (have fun touching that door handle faggot).
>Masturbate
>I could try to get some rest in. I doubt I'm in one piece after getting captured.
>I might start preparing some sort of spell, if I'm capable.
>I could try digging a hole, if just to piss the guards off.

tl;dr your players are uncreative OR they are so used to you railroading them that they don't care about trying anymore.

>>49325687
/tg/ bait has adapted to the most extreme environment imaginable. We will accuse anything we didn't witness personally as being "things that didn't happen" and if it involves a female then we won't believe that it happened even if we were there.
In such a hostile environment a new breed of bait has evolved, one so radically different that it is unrecognisable to anyone not native to /tg/. Some claim it doesn't truly exist but it is ours and we will accuse it of being bait.

>>49327124
... sounds like they want to play a pastoral relaxing RP?

I dunno, fucking talk to them or something. "Hey dudes, what's your aim with this? I'm fine running a village-life game, and I'm getting the feeling you're heading towards that, is that what you want?"

like a regular person

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>Players are fighting 3 golems made of parchment, gravel, and broken blades respectively
>They form when they activate the door in a room that has those materials piled up in separate corners, and the materials spread out until they meet in the centers of the room
>Almost immediately one player realizes it's rock paper scissors and each has a type of attack that is effective against it (slashing for paper, bludgeoning for scissors, piercing for rock)

>Rogue, on about 3 health due to getting blasted by a trap earlier, walks into the room and lets loose an arrow from about 10 feet away from one, and doesn't use their remaining movement to retreat into the hallway, and so gets knocked out by a golem immediately

>Two beefy fighty men corner the paper golem where it appeared, right with the big pile of paper, and I make it clear that it is absorbing large amounts back into itself each turn, but they never try to move themselves or it

>The others duke it towards the middle of the room, where the rock and scissor golems are still getting meager regeneration from being in their areas, which I once again say on each of the monsters' turns, but they never try to remove the debris or move themselves or the monsters

>The blade golem attacks each creature directly adjacent to it with an ability that has a 33% recharge every turn, and after a few players go down around it they just stand there themselves and keep stabilizing them with no proper healing, only to have them take damage and start dying again whenever the thing goes blender mode
>They never move their fallen teammates or try to shove or bait the monster, even after the second rogue has fled to drag the first out of the room
>By the time the last fightyman finishes off the golem, one party member just rolled their last failed death save, another has 1 remaining
>Fightyman flubs the medicine check, downed fightyman fails the death save

>3 of 6 dead

>>49327404
when everything is bait, nothing is

>>49327464
if you're playing a d20 game, then movement options are usually trained to be seen as suboptimal as they provoke attacks, have a poor chance of success, and reduce abilities to damage enemies

>>49327507
It was D&D 5e.
Attempting to shove a creature doesn't provoke an opportunity attack, nor would casting thunderwave or a similar spell provoked one on the bladesinger whizzard who stood in melee range of the blender and got shredded because the area attack was a saving throw rather than AC based. And while attempting to stabilize a creature does take an action, I would have allowed them to grab and drag their teammates as their item interaction for the turn, so they could stabilize and move them while provoking an attack, or disengage and move them to stabilize the next turn. Hell, they could have even tried to move their teammates behind themselves without moving. Or, made a break for it together and have one of the fightymen leave its range first, since the thing only had one reaction to make an attack of opportunity in the first place.

>>49319931
>eat your hamburger, apollo.webm

>>49321976
They figured out a solution, wait until they are sent to the mines or fighting pits and do something. I would probably do the same, better idea than talking to the guard who never listens or making arbitrary perception checks until eventually the GM comes up with a stupid flaw in something.

>>49319331

This sounds like a conflux of you having a minor GM fail (Not sending the right/strong enough signals that there's something for them to do) and player stupidity.

This is how a dumb player rolls:

The dumbest player I ever heard of was the GM's girlfriend(? Not sure, not beautiful, but she was in the process of converting to his religion) and she had her character piss on a fire elemental. Apprently she had her paladin do dumb shit like that moderately often.

He didn't hand wave it, but did let her do prays and mini quests sort of stuff for a miracle to fix shit eventually.

>>49319363
>And who knows, that might be the campaign they were looking for!

this, OP

you should've embraced this and made it F U N

>>49319331
There is something many posters missed in the OP.
He never asked for advice on how to improve his game. That should be obvious from his adverse reaction to the scads of useful advice offered.
He did ask:
>How do you deal with your players being somewhat dumb when you are the GM?
He did ask:
>if you were in that situation what would be the first thing you do
And he did ask to be told it's not his fault
>I want to know whether that's on me or on them.
My answers:
-Be a smarter GM and control the world you have infinite power in if you want a thing to happen that badly
-I would have waited, just to bother you
-Considering that you made a thread on /tg/ just to ask us to validate your decision, call your players dumb, and challenge us to read your mind too, It's you.