Pathfinder General /pfg/

Should I get a brutal slayer with unorthodox method to gain mithral current, or a base stalker with unorthodox method to gain primal fury?

>>49258912

>>49258938
Why not?

>>49258924
The former. Brutal Slayer is tons of fun, and strength is overall more useful than pure damage. Particularly if you also pick up Fool's Errand, as it'll let you make enemies flat-footed all the time, which is huge for any kind of Stalker, and Fool's Errand specifically lets you replace an existing discipline for free; no need for taking traits or orders or whatever.

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>Player/GM
GM
>System
Pathfinder
>Time available (Incl. Timezone)
Sunday evenings PST
>Voice or Text
Text Only
>Method of playing (Roll20, IRC, Skype)
MapTool
>Contact info
roll20: Dangly Deever
email: [email protected]
Steam: Dangly Deever (preferred)
Discord: Dangles#3796
>Additional information
Brand new campaign. We're looking for 3 more players (total of 4 players + 1 GM). Basic Pathfinder game, level 1 start (maybe negotiable?), 20 point buy, Paizo only, core races only.

Is anyone interested?

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>>49258938

Sure. Stories are always nice.

>>49258981
you had me until maptool

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>>49258981
Nope, not interested in the least!

>>49258764
>very limited resource
What?
The harbinger is the only DSP class that has no per-day resources and so can keep on going forever as long as it has the HP.

>situational recovery method
Swift action recovery is hella strong, you can just recover and keep on striking that same turn. It does vary in usefulness depending on how your GM designs encounters, but unless you're just fighting one single boss enemy with 800HP who refuses to die, it's never going to cripple you.
Just pick up the Grasp of Darkness feat to recover two maneuvers per claim.

>>49258981
Any details on the campaign setting, story etc?
And maptool?

Weeb-homebrewfag here again with my third archetype for samurai. On the chopping block this time is the Ten no Kishi/Heavenly Knight archetype, a hybrid samurai/paladin archetype.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ry031J1aHVTPckYv27InnoBFozu1DRxaR5qK52Jc9f8/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to check out my previous homebrewed archetypes, the Santouryuu-Do (which could still use some feedback) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zE8yJYxd6ARrqEQrdyzxQ5tedP1ffGiTp5xBb_C2ywI/edit?usp=sharing

And my first samurai archetype, the Tamenhisan-Do: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XlHjDwIEGVMpGSk3mQ8bOwyMQXLR6nLIF94qm0VwXBg/edit?usp=sharing

>>49258781
Jabbing style??

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Reposting Gareth's new Malefex playtest.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W3LrE8WyIxxYRr8d9dHsWioeUk_-HZaSMqVWRnzc9Fc/edit?usp=sharing

Full details here:
>>49244519

>>49258924
Brutal Slalker with Bushi stacked on it, my man.

>>49258981
>Paizo only
Dropped

>>49259186
Oh, that eats into my stalker talents

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>>49258981
>Paizo only

>Vital Strike is so shit that the magus can't even use it with any of his class features, and there's nothing to let them do so
>This means that my dream of stacking a Mercurial Duelist vigilante with Magus in a gestalt doesn't work
>unless I can beg for something to let me do it, which is unlikely

Why does Vital Strike have to be so bad.

>>49259263
Paizo.

>>49259170
probably not but im writing it up anyway

>>49259263
Is not THAT bad...if you're a druid who has an animal companion with only one attack (Boar? Bison?) and decides to turn into animals with only one attack. For everything else...yeah, it sucks.

>>49259263
Vital strike isn't bad. It's a butt load of dice! If anything it's way too powerful. Martials shouldn't be able to hit 16 dice each turn!

Why do mods allow these threads?

They really belong on /jp/, not on /tg/.

would vital strike be good if you could use it on the first attack of a full attack action?

>>49259326
>A TTRPG is a /jp/ thing

Sure buddy.

>>49259333
Depending, yeah. Doing 4x weapon damage the first attack would be a boon, but I'm not sure how many classes could afford the feats in addition to their other required feats.

>>49259326
Could be worse.

>>49259333
Do you even need to ask?

>>49259315
2/10

>>49259333
Do you consider Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity broken? because those two feats are better than all the vital strike feats together even if you allow what you say.

>>49259333
I mean, a greatsword fighter would probably get buffed, but it would be kinda ass for anyone else. Its a fuckton of feats for barely anything.

>>49258948
>>49258938
>>49258985
>>49259297

i just realized it's going to take me a while to type up, i'll throw it up later tonight/tomorrow when i'm off work

>>49259326
>D&D-knockoff
>on /jp/

u wot m8

Which is worse, Pathfinder or 3.5?

>>49259394
i think it could be good for cavaliers to multiply their damage on their lance charge if it wasn't so pricey feat wise
>>49259385
>>49259354
>>49259346
what if we made it like power attack like where it gets increased at bab increments so like every +5 to bab you get the next step in the feat chain and it all became one feat

>>49259468
Pathfinder, because it's still being abused by the developers.

>>49259345
>>49259447
All that you do in these threads is post anime monster girls.

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>>49259505
Still less harmful to the hobby than Paizo.

So question for Aegis. He can get two extra arms to dual wield two two-handed weapons like greatswords or Earth Breakers.

What other size modifiers stack with on the Aegis customization?
Improved Increased Size gives you +2 sizes
Powerful Build for +1 size.
Increased size for +1 size.
Augment Weapon (which doesn't stack with Increased Size) +1 size.

Does the increased size from expand stack with a normal spellcaster's Enlarge Person?

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>>49258220
>Femalefex
>"Female"-fex, a joke on how "malefex" starts with "male"
>"Fe"-malefex, because it's a concept about hunting fey with iron armor/weapons/etc
>A portmanteau of "fey" and "malefex"

motherFUCKER

This pun is gold.

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All this talk about vital strike reminded me that Weapon of the Chosen existed. And that it's literally "ay lmao warpriest only go fuq urself famalam", and the only reason you'd take it is because of the last feat in the chain.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/greater-weapon-of-the-chosen-combat

>three feat chain to get 2 rolls for a single attack
>you must not only worship a deity and use their weapon, you must RECEIVE SPELLS FROM THEM
>martials literally cockblocked from something that the casters don't even want to use

JOLLY, YOU DAMN WELL BETTER KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO HERE.

>>49259468
PF is even more caster supremacy if you go 1pp so go figure

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>>49259263
While I'll admit I'm not in love with the idea of making it cost a resource (since it shouldn't need to cost anything), what about if I included a feat that let them stack, maybe giving the magus's spell a DC boost when it was used like that?

>>49259721
Looks like something new is being added to the list of new talents.

Also HOPEFULLY Legendary Vigilantes should be out today (we're playtesting the villains version, as well as a few archetypes which are obviously going to be shifted to other products). Here's hoping it actually does.

>>49258977
Not that guy but my GM looked at Fool's Errand, saw the "Lock" mechanic and just laughed. I have no shot at ever being able to use it.

>>49259753
3.x definitely had more broken spells, though.

Post devils/tieflings/etc that could pass for human if not looked at closely

>>49259788
I think you forgot your face.

>>49259791
So your GM isn't willing to allow a mechanic less complicated than most existing combat maneuvers?

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>>49259836
Elf, but close enough.

>>49259840
I did, yeah.

My questions still stand though, I think giving a DC boost could help make vital magus better.

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>>49259788
>HOPEFULLY Legendary Vigilantes should be out today

Aw shit son.

I had something else I was going to harass you over, and I think it had something to do with a design defect in something from the first book, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. I think it maybe had something to do with Inquisitive Detective?

>Magus and Vital Strike
IMO, Magus is fine without Vital Strike. Personally, I'd think it would be fair if you could take a feat that required a swift action in order to combine spellstrike with Vital Strike. Maybe give it a prereq feat that lets you Vital Strike during Spell Combat's full-round action?

>>49259126
Some of these Malefactions would be pretty fun out of combat as well, there should be a knack or some way to gain the ability to have your target be unaware of the curse placed on them.

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>>49259836

>>49259881
Let me know, there's a chance that Inquisitive Detective was bumped to another book, so there's probably still time to fix it. I'm almost certain ID had some kind of issue, but at the same time, the book does have editors, and I do trust them to pick up things.

>>49259899
Great example of stuff im looking for.
>>49259852
>Elf with a tail
Oh the lewds

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>>49259899

>Annah

My friend and compatriot of African descent.

>>49259800
Actually, no, not really.

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>>49259836

>>49259952
You do know that Knowledge (Geography) is a trained only skill right?

Identifying ethnicity or accent is barely passable check.

>>49259946
Oh wait, it was Mercurial Duelist not being able to use either Inquisitive Detective OR Consumed, on account of eating the 1st level talent. Maybe also the fact that ID kicks in at 1st level and forces caster archetypes who need that 1st level social talent into taking Exposed.

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>>49259836
Another

>>49259980
Wish was more broken, as was shape change. Ice assassin, the arcane version of Genesis. Few others as well. Paizo didn't do a completely awful job of removing some of the problem spells from core. Not that they actually removed the disparity.

>>49260019
I used this as a character art for a incredibly hyperactive berserker type who was dumb but nice.

>>49259840
>So your GM isn't willing to allow a mechanic less complicated than most existing combat maneuvers?

He said it's an unnecessary mechanic because grappling someone already basically does all of that, but also comes with drawbacks on the part of the grappler. Locking is just a way to get some of the bonuses of grappling without the drawbacks.

I tried arguing with him, but it didn't get anywhere.

>>49260009
Wrong (You)?

>>49260039
Oh, sure, some of the core broken ones got nerfed a little, but then you have out of core 1pp shit that is literally bananas compared to out of core 3.5. Some of them are literally step on [insert class] spell that give you all the features of that class but better, and these aren't even the broken, just the unfair as fuck.

>>49260012
I could change MD, although ancestral weapon is already pretty cheap for just 1 social talent, I've literally taxed the class to the max to give MD everything I could (way of the blade is obviously WAY stronger than unshakable, but the class needs it).

The caster thing is a bit more tricky, due to how everything else is structured. I could maybe see ID being pushed back to 3rd level, I'll have to see if it's being moved over to Intrigue Archetypes, which is taking Trickshot Sniper.

Also new talent:

>Superb Blade (Ex) The vigilante gains Weapon of the ChosenACG as a bonus feat, treating any weapon with which they possess Weapon Focus as their deity’s favored weapon. At 6th level, they gain Improved Weapon of the ChosenACG as a bonus feat, and at 10th level they gain Greater Weapon of the ChosenACG. The vigilante does not need to meet the prerequisites for these feats. A vigilante must possess the Weapon Focus feat to select this talent.

>>49259800
True, but Paizo also added shit like reflex based SoL spells.

>>49260073
Can I get a few of those spell names? I think I recall one that practically made you a paladin, but that's all that comes to mind.

>>49259468
Just one word CMD. Now extract your own conclusions.

>>49259721
I played an Anti Paladin of Urgotha who took that feat chain (and Power Attack) to use with his keen scythe. It was pretty nice.

>>49260104
3.5 grappling? I mean, at least there are ways for PF to ignore size restrictions for maneuvers now.

>>49258981
>paizo only
>touhou pic

n a h

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>>49260076
ID being pushed back would have been the easiest solution and would make it feel a bit less ridiculous, though that would require it to get pushed back like you said. Consumed not stacking with MD is more of just a "well that sucks", but I wasn't much of a fan of it anyway. Even in the state everything's in, it's still far better designed than basically every paizo archetype for the Vigilante so far.

>mfw another one of my fits of autism ended with the vigilante having more nice things

>>49260139
>size restrictions
who cares when you can't beat their CMD, in 3.5 you could with some thought behind it, now even if you minmax hard as fuck there're going to be lots of times that is literally impossible unless you roll nat20.

Srly, compare the old Grapple/Trip bonus from creatures to CMDs now, you'll realize some of them went 20 or even 30 up. Balor in 3.5 was 35, now to Grapple/Trip him is fucking 56

>>49260139
>at least there are ways for PF to ignore size restrictions for maneuvers now
Like in 3.5, there was a feat to ignore size on trip and even gave you a +4 to it (if the creature was huge) +8 if it was bigger. Similar to grapple or other maneuvers. So, no, things aren't better, they're worse.

>>49260193
You can, you just have to super focus. Besides, you were having the same issues beating size bonuses in 3.x as well.

>>49260064
I'd recommend pointing out that Lock does nothing to stop the enemy from doing anything but moving. They can cast, they can full attack and murder you, they can initiate, etc.

>>49260180
If I can, I'll talk to the publisher about doing that. I'm not in love with it being pushed back, but at the same time, it does solves some stacking issues.

New Feat
>Vital Magic
Prerequisite: Spellstrike class feature, iaijutsu slash class feature, or bonded spellstrike vigilante talent.
Benefit: You can use the Vital Strike feat (or iaijutsu slash) with the spellstrike class feature as a standard action, as well as treating your character level as your Base Attack Bonus for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of feats with ‘Vital Strike’ in their name.
Normal: Spellstrike requires a full round action to use.

>>49260283
GDI, should have said spell combat, fixing it now.

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>>49260283
This is a good meme. I like this meme.

How deep into the meme tunnel can we possibly go, though?

>>49259478
scratch that, get the increase at +11 and +16 sorry

I don't get the anger at Paizo only in this thread.
Someone explain?
I let 3rd party stuff in my campaign but my players aren't autistic powergamers so they just use things that interest them, which just happens to be a majority of paizo stuff

>>49260757
Bait.
It's been explained 1001th times, you might not happen in your games but stop baiting with the "care to explain?" because you already know the answer.

>>49260757
Well, there's their disrespect for their consumer base, the general shit quality of their product, their endless deepthroating of casters, their unwillingness to try anything that isn't shitty vancian magic, their obsession with making the game a porno, and their endless insistence on using an alignment system that makes less sense the more they publish it?

Meanwhile, autistic powergamers just join paizo in sucking caster dick and people who enjoy having fun and competnet characters go to the good 3pp like Radiance House, Ascension Games, Legendary Games, Purple Duck Games, Dreamscarred Press, Drop Dead Studios, Alluria Publishing, and Little Red Goblin Games.

>>49260757
(you)

For Dread, when using Broken Dreams Style, it says you apply the damage of devastating touch.

For Devastating touch, it says you must make a touch attack on a living target, and then apply damage.

Does this mean broken dreams style gets around the living target restriction?

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>>49260757
I dunno, they seem to be well educated, knowable and swell guys who know what they're doing. I even believe they test their stuff with real athletes and martial artists.

>>49260757
For me, it was the moment I found out the psychic classes were just vancian casters done a bit differently.

Still better than 5e though, which wishes it was 2e.

>>49260923
5e is decent. At least it tried plenty of new things, rather than being basically a worse version of 3.5

>>49260844
Thank you for explaining, I've played Pathfinder for years and 3.5 for ages, I know paizo is a dumbass company but I just didn't delve deep enough to understand the vehement hate. I knew casters were fucking retarded, I just didn't know 3pp would fix it so well.
Thank you for the suggestions I'll definitely check them out to improve my game.

>>49260878
>>49260878
Just reiterating this because I'm in a fight and could really use the extra damage.

>>49260913
I thought that would be the weapon cord's post

Someone explain Spheres of Power to me in 10 words or less

Same poster as >>49260757
What are some of the best 3PP books besides Path of War and the Psionics books?

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>>49259126
Danke anon.

>>49259684
...I may end up writing this too. Fey aren't the only things that recoil from the hateful touch of iron. Get some themes of rusting going with the curses, maybe, where folks wither or even start to flake away...

Reposting this feedback from the previous thread (with the knowledge that they got the 5-foot step thing wrong by mistake) to keep it in the convo: http://pastebin.com/m8fXEEgp

>>49259896
Maybe, but I'm not as sure about that one. I'll chew it over and toss out a proposal.

>>49256773
Yeah, I've gotten this quite a bit thus far, and some subtle edits to the fluff up front will probably help with it. One thing about the malefex is those street-smart experiences are often the /source/ of those spiteful or competitive feelings; they know, firsthand, about the connections made between people because of hatred or rivalry. They use those connections in a hostile way (to wit, curses) but unlike, say, a bloodrager who's all about cutting loose or a zealot who's all about projecting their passion, the malefex's basic art is still /manipulating those connections/. You can see that expressed another way through Bad Penny and Lingering Misfortune.

>>49257040
Wisdom is also perception, empathy, awareness, and the ability to connect oneself with others, whether that's your fellow man (Sense Motive) or a god (clerics, inquisitors). It should be notable that I'm of the opinion that Witch could and maybe even /should/ have been Wis rather than Int.

>>49257194
Later(tm).

Thank y'all for the feedback thus far! I'll be addressing/updating things when I get back home.

>>49258981
I sent you an email.

>>49260844
>a porno

As opposed to what? DSP and their Pornforge book?

>>49261329

Hey Gareth, I have a question. (Also, good to see you again, glad you came back)

For Dread, when using Broken Dreams Style, it says you apply the damage of devastating touch.

For Devastating touch, it says you must make a touch attack on a living target, and then apply damage.

Does this mean broken dreams style gets around the living target restriction?

Dread seems to get fucked by undead/constructs

>>49260878
>Does this mean broken dreams style gets around the living target restriction?

No.

When you land an unarmed attack, you deal unarmed damage. You also get to deliver your devastating touch. It doesn't say that it changes who or what your devastating touch can affect, just that you can also effect a target of your unarmed attack with a devastating touch.

If you hit a construct or undead, you would deal unarmed damage. You could also choose to activate devastating touch, but it would be worthless since devastating touch cannot deal damage to such creatures.

>>49261435
Fair enough, it just says 'applying Devastating touch damage', not 'apply Devastating touch damage to valid Devastating touch targets'

>>49261307
Spheres replace schools,
buy talents with feats,
point-based system.

>>49261454
I'm just looking at what is up on the SRD

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/broken-dreams-style-psionic-style

>When performing an unarmed attack, you can choose to also deliver your devastating touch damage through that attack.

At least from the way it's written on the SRD it's pretty clear that there's no clause in Broken Dreams Style that would let Devastating Touch apply to undead or constructs.

>>49261322
>Radiance House, Ascension Games, Legendary Games, Purple Duck Games, Dreamscarred Press, Drop Dead Studios, Alluria Publishing, and Little Red Goblin Games.

Namely
Radiance House: Pact Magic line
Ascension: Path of Shadows and Path of Iron
Legendary and Purple Duck: Anything with N Jolly's name on it, at least (don't know their other stuff)
Dreamscarred Press: Psionics and PoW, of course, but also Steelforge, the Lords line, and Bloodforge Infusions (base bloodforge is meh)
Drop Dead: Spheres of Power
Alluria: Cerulean Seas (I mostly know them for making good underwater rules)
Little Red Goblin: Gonzo 2, aka "How to make the zaniest most absurdly awesome characters ever and have an absolute blast doing it"

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Question for ya, /pfg/

I am running a game using Automatic Bonus Progression and giving out very few items. As in one magic weapon per PC across the whole campaign, and nothing with numeric bonuses.

One of these is going to be a giant adamantine sword, 2d8 base damage and always acts as if using the best version of Vital Strike the wielder has the BAB for. Being a property of the sword means the VS effect can be combined with other feats it usually can't due to both using the same action. Cleave, Spring Attack, etc.

However it seems to need a boost to keep up with, say, another sword that sets targets on fire with a stacking 1d6 per round. So what would improve it without getting too crazy? Free trip and sunder on every attack? Auto confirming crits? Other ideas?

>>49261647
Can you Vital Strike with the auto-vital striking sword?

Speaking of Spheres of Power, the War Handbook is still in playtest (along with Time, Alteration, and Dark) and has had some recent updates:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKYQDiexOl7efIFLp_1nfJIlj9ky04senq8l6WbweQk/edit?usp=sharing

>>49261666
64d8 for greater vital striking on a greater vital strike. Only usable if you own that many d8s.

>>49259505
You couldn't have even waited until one of those threads to use this shitpost?

>>49261705
Meh. I've done more with d4s and d6s, good to see d8s getting some love.

>>49261729
I mean that averages out to 288 damage per hit before any additional modifiers. That may be a bit over the top.

Is there a good way to get into pathfinder after DMing a few games of 5e?

>>49261777
Take the pathfinder CRB, bash your face into for about an hour straight, and then move onto a different game.

>>49261785
I meant more easing the players into it, but OK.

>>49261755
Eh, compared to what a stacking 1d6 per hit can do, and considering that this is at level 16, i wouldn't be overly concerned.

Actually, my biggest issue would be the spike. 15 to 16 goes from 16d8 to 64d8

>>49261777
No, stick with 5e

>>49261794
"Don't."

>>49261794
Get the players drunk and then beat them to death with the CRB. It'll be less painful.

>>49261800
Stacking 1d6? To get anywhere close to 64d8 in damage you would have to hit 12 times to get 78d6 worth of damage (assuming the d6 happens each hit, so 1d6, then 2d6, 3d6 etc...)
Even still that would only be 273 damage, on average, for 12 hits. Almost anybody would already be dead by then.

>>49261821
Unless you want options

>>49261800
Just make it additive instead of multiplicative.

So you end up with x7 damage dice if you have all the VS feats.

>>49261857
Homebrew shit

>>49261800
Eh? At 15 they'll be swinging around a 4d8 weapon with size and effective size increase, for 3x and 3x making it 36d8, no 16.

>>49261821
I feel we've kind of worn out 5e.

Pathfinder seems to have more stuff.

>>49261912
I'm probably the only person here that's gonna tell you to play it once to try it out. The rules are over the top sure, but I still love the game.
I really don't get the jadedness sometimes, just use the PFSRD and find out whatever info you want to play

>>49261912
Same here, after 2 years we literally tried everything

>>49261705
>>49261755
>>49261800
>>49261841
>>49261859
>>49261876
My fault for getting distracted. Did not plan to allow VS with the VS sword, no. And the stacking d6 sword can add up, but how many stacks are you really going to get before the enemy is dead from being stabbed anyway? Plus resistance and immunity.

Would rather offer more interesting stuff than straight damage. Like the trip and sunder where you cleave apart their armor/shield and beat them into the ground with one blow.

>>49260554
Okay, question here; is this better as a feat that initially gives nothing sadly or as a general talent that also gives vital strike and counts as vital punishment for the purpose of feats?

I was thinking about this on my walk, and I'd like to get some opinions on it. Vital Power will stay a feat though.

>>49262073
Make a spell that casts a spell on hit

>>49258889
We've caused demon incursions several times. About half of them were on accident.

We never clean them up.

>>49259053
Super cute Koa dude.

>>49259012
>>49259053
>>49259200
>>49260145
>>49259235

5 Hit Butthurt combo

>>49259126
Fuck Gareth, can't even GM.

>>49259126
>Malefex

How do you pronounce that? Male-fecks?

>>49259468
Hard to say, for every step forward there is in Pathfinder there is a step back.

>>49260101
There was that one Magus/Bard spell that pretty much invalidated the Spring Attack feat chain.

>>49262080
Second one, a feat should never do nothing.

>>49260757
Butthurt DSP kiddies mostly.

>>49262671
'Mal-eh-fex'.

>>49262637
Pardon me?

>>49262693
Oh no, a horrible feat chain that was completely worthless is still completely worthless.

>>49261137
It should've been, what he posted invalidates his sarcastic remark.

>>49258981
Why's it gotta be maptool.

Why.

I'm not autistic like the rest of the fucks who can't handle a 1PP game, and besides, I'm pretty good at getting GMs hesitant about it to try it out once we've played a while.

But seriously, fuck Maptool. It has no real advantages over Roll20, runs on fucking Java, and is unreliable as shit.

>>49262715
HUSSY!

>>49262715
STOP WEARING THE WRONG FACE

>>49261948
People expect it to be a better or fixed version of 3.5 for no reason. It's just a reworded extension, literally all they do is shit out content/ideas/templates.

Most GM's aren't good enough to use the material provided as they should. Often making the mistake of going on PFSRD and allowing just about anything that's 1pp.

>>49262712
Care to explain?

>>49262860
>/pfg/ loves to cling to DSP's nutsack for PoW shit
>Announce a game without it
>butthurt ensues

>>49262722
oh no, an anecdotal response with no merit.

>>49262715
You have trouble reading the screen, bitch?

>>49262743
>invalidates
I think it actually proves it

>>49262860
>>49262876
It's not just DSP, that guy's just stirring shit.

Banning 3PP content outright, but allowing Paizo content universally, shows that the GM in question has a very poor grip on the game's balance and little to no understanding of the tier system.

Many 3PP classes are fine, and many are shit or OP, but the exact same case can be made for Paizo's content - the disparity between the Psychic and the Kineticist, both published in the same book, is titanic.

But you already knew that, because you're just stirring shit, too.

>>49262906
That doesn't provide any actual feedback, nutsucker. Actually say your grievances or fuck off.

>>49262911
It would've if he actually posted an image that was relevant to them shitting on martial classes and "martial-centric" shit like weapon cords or Crane Wing.

That particular post just highlights the god damn truth. They never intended to fix class disparity in 3.5, so you should've never expected them to. What they should be doing is expanding options for martial classes, not restricting them for bullshit reasons.

Tbh it's never been an issue for my own group until PCs get past level 12 or so.

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I think the absolute worst thing about Paizo, bar none, is the fact that they Errata away everything that's even slightly good

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>>49262973
>calling people a kid like you're a badass

>>49262955
So, what, I should just add a picture of the corebook to it? Because that fucking corebook IS shitting all over martial classes, you dense retard.

The call of Pathfinder was a better balanced 3.5, so why the flipping, flying fuck shouldn't we have expected that? Only they didn't, they stuck with the shitty balance in core, so now that's enshrined forever. Fuck you.

>>49262696
And now it's a talent, kind of like a janky vital punishment with very specific requirements.

>Vital Magic (Ex) The vigilante gains Vital Strike as a bonus feat even if they don’t meet the prerequisites for it and can use it or an iaijutsu slash [Imperial Archetypes] with the spell combat class feature as a standard action. This talent is treated as vital punishmentUI for meeting the prerequisites of talents and feats. A vigilante must have the spell combat class feature or bonded spell combat talent and be 6th level or higher to select this talent

>>49262918
Actually most GMs only use 1pp.
Tiers are just a suggestion, they don't definitively dictate the expected outcome/performance/or teamwork of every party.

There's also the fact that the GM's job is to design encounters/quests/challenges/story/etc for the party meaning Game Balance is his/her responsibility.

Alot of 3pp classes just means extra work/research. And any GM who would allow 3pp content he is unfamiliar with is pretty foolish to do so.

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Are Oracles any good? I hardly ever see anyone talk about them

>>49263004
Posting a fearful reaction pic affirming your accusation.

>>49263037
>Tiers are just a suggestion,
buildposter pls

>>49262893
I mean, is there an anecdote where spring attack is ever worth the investment?

>>49263046
They can be if you build them right, just like any class. They're a solid Tier 2, T1 with certain Race/Archetype combinations.

The main problem with them is that the Cleric/Oracle spell list was originally designed for Clerics to have access to the whole spell list practically on command, making many spells situational at best. You won't be as good as a Sorcerer in terms of spells, but your 3/4 BAB, Medium Armor, and access to the very good Curse and Mystery options that sell the class will keep you more than competitive with Sorcerers.

>>49263046
Oracles are crazy good. they get access to the Cleric spell list, are fullcasters, have dozens of different mysteries to make unique characters, Curses are flavorful and rarely a detriment past 5th level, and they can easily fill numerous roles from bruiser to caster to skillmonkey depending on the chosen mystery.

Plus Oradin is a very popular build for a particular reason.

>>49263037
>Actually most GMs only use 1pp.
Really? Do you have some hard data to back up that statement? If so, I'd like to see it.

>>49263037
>Tiers are just a suggestion, they don't definitively dictate the expected outcome/performance/or teamwork of every party.

If you ignore them entirely you're going to have a bad time. See: Wizard/Rogue/Fighter/Monk party.

>>49263037
>There's also the fact that the GM's job is to design encounters/quests/challenges/story/etc for the party meaning Game Balance is his/her responsibility.

Yes, and not understanding the tier system and the fact that WHO prints material doesn't matter whatsoever means you're going to fail at that responsibility.

>>49263037
>Alot of 3pp classes just means extra work/research. And any GM who would allow 3pp content he is unfamiliar with is pretty foolish to do so.

If you're too fucking lazy to read the material your players want to use, you're shit.

On that same token, the kind of GM that outright bans 3PP because it's 3PP definitely hasn't read the entirety of 1PP material, because there is MUCH more of it than published 3PP.

In other words, fuck off, shit-stirrer.

>>49263015
You should try paying attention to what I type, instead of getting so mad and defensive about someone having the audacity to disagree with you.

Nothing in the core rule-book shits on martial classes the way their errata does. Just about every nice thing they got was changed. But when introduced in the core rule-book just about every class got a bump or a slight upgrade from their 3.5 counterpart. (CMD/CMB may be a different story depending on how you feel about it.)

The fact that it's hardly any different from 3.5 and should've been reasonably seen through playtest indicates it's your own fault for having expectations of a "balanced" unbalanced system. Not to mention the unbalance which you complain about is easily addressed with competent GM intervention.

If it makes you that mad it's not a fixed 3.5 then you should probably play something other than 3.5 or a 3.5 fix or whatever. Stop being a bitch.

>>49263156
>(CMD/CMB may be a different story depending on how you feel about it.)

CMD scales faster than any other monster defense, Paizo objectively made Grapple and Bull Rush builds harder. That's not a "how you feel" thing, that's a verifiable part of the game's math. In my games, CMD uses STR /or/ DEX, not both - it's just whichever is higher naturally - because combat maneuvers are already pretty mediocre to start with. I also remove Size modifiers to Intimidate, but make Intimidate use CMD + CHA (if positive) as its defense, because skills scale faster than player CMB does.

/pfg/ in general sucks at the game's math, though.

It's weird, since you can just look at a monster or two at each CR rating to get an idea of how strong they are.

But don't worry. Paizo is shit at balance too. Just look at Ghouls and Xills.

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Does anyone have a scan or a pdf of this "new book" in the recent beginner box? is it different from the Black Fang adventure?

>>49263156
>Not to mention the unbalance which you complain about is easily addressed with competent GM intervention.
Not him, but that is not an argument since the same can be very easily said about all tabletop systems, including the really shit ones like RIFTS or FATAL
By trying to use that argument, you are admitting that you do not actually wish to judge a system based on its own merits, which doing so takes away the incentive to actually wish to look for better systems or 3pp fixes to them, and reflects a lack of introspection in determining if you actually have taste.

Its like trying to dig a ditch with a spoon. Yeah, uits technically possible, and if you tape enough shit to the spoon and do wierd enough stuff you might be able to dig that ditch, but you're still an idiot and complete tool for refusing to either use a bigger spoon or at least a shovel out of principal that "it works if I'm competant enough

>>49263095
I am not buildposter.

>>49263098
You could find one easily but you would probably disagree considering you personally find the feat chain worthless.

>>49263138
>Really? Do you have some hard data to back up that statement? If so, I'd like to see it.

Try looking for a game on like Roll20 or something. I don't see any reason to believe anyone wishing to GM would start with 3pp.

>If you ignore them entirely you're going to have a bad time. See: Wizard/Rogue/Fighter/Monk party.
Acknowledging tiers is how one would make a Wizard/Rogue/Fighter/Monk party work. I mean you got one tier 1 and a bunch of tier 4-5s so it's even easier.

>Yes, and not understanding the tier system and the fact that WHO prints material doesn't matter whatsoever means you're going to fail at that responsibility.
Like I said before that doesn't accommodate for every possible party, particularly in scenarios where you have experienced players playing those lower tier classes. Knowing WHO prints material has very little to do with knowing the system and how to build encounters for that party.

>>49263138
Basically you're just bitching at this point, you don't have to play a 1pp game if you don't want to. You have no real right to get mad at the GM not running the game you don't want to play, because you can fuck off and play another or GM your own game with 3pp. Love how I'm a "shit-stirrer" for disagreeing with general jaded consensus of /pfg/.

>>49263271
>Try looking for a game on like Roll20 or something.
Roll20 has people who do dumb shit like outright ban all arcane magic, period. It's not representative of the majority of online Pathfinder players - and isn't representative whatsoever of the people who play home games, or games at their FLGS.

In other words, no, you have no data, so it was a baseless statement. Good to know.

In fact, I'm not going to respond individually to the rest of your post. You're not even arguing, you're talking AT me about shit that doesn't even address what I brought up.

And you're a shit-stirrer for bringing up a topic you KNOW is going to trigger /pfg/, don't get all conceited about it.

>>49263156
>The fact that it's hardly any different from 3.5 and should've been reasonably seen through playtest indicates it's your own fault for having expectations of a "balanced" unbalanced system. Not to mention the unbalance which you complain about is easily addressed with competent GM intervention.
Fuck you literally forever, you rancid shitstain. My fault for expecting them to actually follow through on their fucking claims? Shove it up your ass, if you can fit anything else up there with your head taking up so much space already.

>magic items I've given my players

>Hungry Blossoms
>twin rapiers, each cross guard styled to look like a silver blossom, the blades a pale orange, the hilts are curves. Connecting them is a cord of woven vines, three closed blossoms on it. Up to three times a day one, when targeted by a spell, may, as an immediate action, attempt an opposed caster level check, substituting your BaB for your caster level (which ever is higher). If successful the blade slackens, opening to devour the spell. One of the blossoms along the vine opens and the spell fires from the other rapier, as if the wielder has cast it.
>actual rapiers are a set of +2 cruel cold iron rapiers

>Bloody Barnacle
>A set of brass knuckles covered in rust and barnacles, fished out of the bottom of a port. The barnacles are thaumaturgically mutated by alchemical run off. The Barnacles are still alive, and defend themselves. Up to five times a day the wielder can agitate the barnacles, having them expel numerous fronds of ribbon like digestive system to coat both the wielder and victim in digestive fluids. The wielder, and anyone he strikes while this is active, taking 2d6 acid damage. Anyone struck takes 4d6 acid damage for 1d4 rounds. After activated the barnacle's intestines retract after 1d4 rounds, this is activated as a swift action.
>they are a set of +1 corrosive seaborne brass knuckles

>Tiger's Maw
>A spiked gauntlet stylized to look like a tiger's head (may be used to replace the existing armor of a set of full plate). Once a week the wielder may awaken the construct, the creature inside appearing as a mechanical Dire Tiger with the Constructed Creature template, it stays this way for one hour, acting as a summoned creature, before retreating back to the arm. Three times a day the wielder may partially awaken it, lashing out gaining a primary claw attack of his size, that he may make in addition to his normal attack cycle. Awakening it is a swift action and lasts one minute.

rate? thoughts?

>>49263229
Combat Maneuvers are a lot more viable if your DM is the type to use things like PC races as enemies rather than big monsters.

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>>49263271
>You have no real right to get mad at the GM not running the game you don't want to play, because you can fuck off and play another or GM your own game with 3pp
>its somehow wrong to point out how many people in the thread would not join a game which some anon has posted numerous times across multiple threads and was repeatedly told about how poorly ruled the game basis is.
Free speech doesn't protect you from being called an idiot, moron. Also, unless you are that GM who's been posting over and over about the game, you really have no stake in it since your own logic can apply to yourself, meaning by your own reasoning there's no need for you to bitch about DSP when you could play your own game without it.

In other words, either you are butthurt about people insulting your game, or you're a bleeding hypocrite.

Which leads to the question of why you even bothered shitposting super hard when you know that you'll accomplish nothing but making a complete ass out of yourself? Is your life so completely devoid of anything interest that you stoop to shitposting to get (Yous) to fill the empty void in your life?

>>49263351
Right, but classes aren't even vaguely balanced against one another, so that becomes pretty iffy.

>>49263271
>You could find one easily but you would probably disagree considering you personally find the feat chain worthless.
Well, maybe if it wasn't completely worthless, yeah.

>>49263371
Neither are monsters.

>>49263367
To be fair dude, they didn't mention free speech. Free speech doesn't come into this either.

Yes, you can tell them they're idiots for not allowing 3pp. But other people are also allowed to tell you off for bitching about people not running their games how you think they should. Cuts both ways bruh.

>>49263351
Also, Combat Manuvers are much more viable for enemies to use on PCs, as PCs are generally humanoid.

>>49263256
>>49263256
>>49263229
Okay but there are buff/debuffs to squeeze the gap.
For one thing FCMD is a thing, buffs/debuffs are a thing, and the fact that combat maneuvers are generally only effective against humanoid opponents is a big thing.

>>49263256
I've already established PF has no merit.
It's just an extension of 3.5, and a wise one since despite all the gripes with it many people still play it. Having "taste" is subjective and irrelevant, it's pretty easy to assume anyone in this thread enjoys PF/3.5 to some extent. But the fact is those tastes are different, and no group plays with the system the exact same way. Kind of bolsters my point when you introduce 3pp, or homebrew, houserules, errata, etc. Some groups may like it, some may not.

I mean your analogy more or less describes how the community uses PF/3.5. But instead of actually offering an argument you affirm my suggestion to play something else.

>>49263398
What? No.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation#TOC-Table-Monster-Statistics-by-CR

Monsters what the classes are supposed to be balanced against. It isn't perfect, but there's definitely the intention of PC-versus-monster balance. If there wasn't, the game would be unplayable.

>>49263402
Again yeah that depends on sizing. If it's humanoidish vs humanoidish, then it works.

>>49263429
Classes aren't balanced against each other, and monsters aren't balanced against each other.

And in some cases monsters aren't balanced against classes either, as with the aforementioned ghouls.

>>49263398
>But other people are also allowed to tell you off for bitching about people not running their games how you think they should.
>didn't read the second post pointing out the fact as a reason why the original shitposting was hypocritical
>missing the point of the post completely

I'm sorry you hate reading and inferencing. Further, since it does cut both ways, it also allows the party to turn back the comment unto the whiner and deman that he explain his bullshit. If he proves unable to do so in an adequate way, the mob is then given reign to call him out on his bullshit and call him a faggot within the confines of the mob's forum (as in place of discussion, not the website template)

>>49263425
You forgot to reply to the guy with the spoon analogy.

>>49263402
>>49263442
As far as I can tell, this is intentional. I'm fairly certain that Paizo intended for Grappling, Overrun, and Sunder at the very least to be mostly monster abilities, because it's very hard for players to get a good Constrict or Trample, and nobody Sunders loot.

>>49263457
>Classes aren't balanced against each other, and monsters aren't balanced against each other.

Oh. I thought that was fairly obvious. The game is mostly about humanoid PCs beating up monsters and taking their shit, at its core. At least for the combat mechanics, anyway. You don't need heavy mechanics for social interaction and the like.

And like anything else, yeah, there's corner cases. But shitty monsters are easy to identify most of the time - anything with Panick, Paralysis, or Stun is a bit stronk in the early game. Honestly, I don't put my players up against things that a party would have a means of defeat via class features. Not necessarily their party - Remove Disease is handy, but not everybody has a Cleric - but if they have a problem with a monster and they run away, they know there's somebody they can find that is their peer in power level that can help.

>>49263306
Rambling about semantics and have no real argument for my response. You could've just not responded and saved your time. I addressed everything you brought up clearly, you can take it or leave it I could care less about how you feel or how majority of /pfg/ feels.

>>49263318
Your fault for not being familiar enough with 3.5 to know it cant actually be "fixed". You being assblasted is no reason for me to have anything up my ass.

>>49263367
I wasn't addressing your right to free speech, more so the reason you're so angry at GM's who won't allow 3pp material. I am not that GM, but good job devolving yourself and argument into your own baseless assumption.

That said we're all anonymous here, there's no one here I hope to impress or troll really. Maybe if you weren't so full of yourself you wouldn't react so negatively to an opinion so different from yours.

>>49263483
>Interference
>Public space

I'm sorry you think your ultra-special discussion is above interjection.

>>49263545
This guy's just shitposting, ignore him and move on.

>>49263561
Inference, anon, not interference.

Reading comprehension.

>>49263545
So, that excises them making bullshit claims. Totally.

No, that makes that fucking picture 100% correct, you dribbling retard. The fact that you can't understand this is jawdropping.

Do us all a favor, and remove yourself from the genepool.

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>>49263516
>As long as you know how its shit, then its not a bad system to play
fuck is wrong with you? That's like saying its fine to eat a plate of shit as long as you know its shit?

>>49263545
>more so the reason you're so angry at GM's who won't allow 3pp material.
nice try faggot, but I first got into this conversation at>>49263095

Maybe you should follow your own advice about how "we're all anonymous here"

>>49263561
>I'm sorry you think your ultra-special discussion is above interjection.
You certainly do since at the very start of the conversation train you refused to substantiate your claims or even listen to or accept the validity of the other anons pointing out the faults in your reasoning you drooling mongoloid.

Holy shit you really are a complete hypocrite.

>>49263642
Your analogy is flawed in a basic way and is not really an analogy as it is a thinly veiled insult, and is not really a counterargument in the slightest.

Just so you know.

Yes, yes, you're all pretty.

Can we move on?

>>49263642
>Assuming the person you're talking to is the same person.

How 'bout you calm down a tad anon, you seem a mite rustled.

And the point made is that Pathfinder is like a michael bay movie. If you go in looking for deep story, you're going to be disappointed. But if you go in just looking for some explosions and action, you're gonna come out happy. It's all about expectations.

>>49263767
Don't bother.

He's beyond reason, all he can do is hate Pf and try and make other hate it as well.

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>>49263740
Yes, lets

Yo everyone, still looking for critique on the Platinum Gestalt, and initiating archetype for the Summoner.
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/17MgoXvdcJOIB7C5P3rXFRTLNTi64jqw4zVdqX-cUFSQ/edit?usp=sharing

now PLEASE give me hard critiwue, that lack of criticism on the product has got me nervous and is making me very self conscious about the quality of it.
HURT ME MOAR SNAKE

And as always, the links to my other homebrew archetypes can be found here, as well as space to comment on any ideas for them as well
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/10i0sPMcmX8IUrEatDH24L6m-L9xnFIJOpTvjX6fToUU/edit?usp=sharing

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Since there doesn't appear to be Missile Storm in PF, what's a good way to build a magic missile specialist? Is there any way to shit tons of missiles onto an opponent?

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>Want to design homebrew
>Don't ever actually play games anymore since IRL group is fractured as all fuck for an indefinite amount of time
>Won't ever actually get to mess around with any of the content I design
>Lose all motivation

>>49263833
Depends on what you mean by "missile". If you mean just a shitton of Magic Missiles, then there is a great bevy of metamagic and metamagic specializing archetypes and options to boost their power.
If you just want to lob damaging blasts and bolts of magic, then a blaster Sorcerer or an Eldritch Archer might be good enough

>>49263835
Just do it anyway. I live on the other side of the country from my group, and its sometimes over a month until we play, but they still review, test, and utilize homebrew.
MAKE YOUR DREAMS COME TRUE!

>>49263835
the former. which metamagics/archetypes do this?

>>49263835
>want to design homebrew
>have no idea how class/race balance works due to low level of optimization within group, save for one guy who never gets to do the broken thing he has planned because no game ever reaches that level

We are struggling together.

>>49263890
Well, just gimme a sec. This will take a while.

>>49262715
Tbh, hussy, I do not like the ability names in your class. It feels like you were trying to do the thing Forrest does and have crazy/silly/awesome names for abilities, but it misses its mark and just comes off as forced and edgy.

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>trying to rebuild a Str/Cha character that isn't a Paladin/Oracle, and is still 1pp
>mfw realizing I can't get myself back into the bloodrager no matter what I do, everything I try just looks fucking awful
>mfw realizing basically everything I want to do all consist of dexfaggotry, but being stronk was integral to the character
>mfw the hell of trying to rebuild a character for a second attempt at a campaign that died ages ago, because trying to do an AP with 2 single-classed PCs is a terrible idea

Fucks sake. Int-based classes (and fullcasters in general) have ruined me.

>>49258889
So hey, does anyone know if there's a class that reasonably well emulates a Final Fantasy blue mage, or if there's a non-broken homebrew one?

What class is good if I want to make a scum fuck, fat greasy, sleezeball of a man? I was thinking sorcerer into Bloatmage but
>Vanician

Tier 1 and Tier 5 classes b&, anything else DSP and Paizo is good.

>>49264453
Alchemist gets a bunch of polymorph spells and can cast them on allies, plus Beastmorph can choose from a list of monster abilities.

>>49264545
Alchemist. You can get a bunch of body horror going, such as animating your giant gut as a familiar, vomiting spiders, having acidic sweat and bleeding fire, etc.

>>49264587
There's already an Alchemist in the party.

>>49264617
And? Nothing says you can't have two.

>>49264661
My autism does.

In addition to the hand-picked powers, does the Gambler have all wilder powers on its class list, or just 0-6th?

>>49264682
That sounds like the main problem here then.

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>>49259680
the Improved doesn't stack.
You can (LATER) swap out Augment Weapon for the veilweaving and ectoplessence customs, allowing you a second (at 11+) effective weapon size up.

So:
Improved Size Up: +2 Sizes. You are now huge
Powerful Build: Effective +1 size for yourself. You are Huge but can count as Gargantuan and wield Gargantuan weapons.
Armory of the Conqueror Veil: 3 Essence: +2 Effective Weapon Sizes, it's now Colossal II (yes things keep growing, I use the 2-5 and city-mech scales for notation but the important thing is it keeps going)

You could also get Colossal III with an Akashic Catalyst, and at level 18+ you could go 4 essence and a +3 catalyst for Colossal IV, at which point you are literally firing (it's funnier when it's a machinegun or beam cannon) beams and projectiles that by all item-size-considerations are/should in fact be bigger than your enlarged self is.

And isn't firing capital-scale beams (actually at this point the 'capital' term is becoming dangerously close to 'cities') several times larger than your entire hull the greatest reason for living?

>>49264740
Also just got done with the GM, and he said no doubles.

>>49259053
mesmerizing

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>>49263833
The greatest source of missile storm is actually a 'projectile' storm using Silver Crane and autofire weaponry.

>Step 1: Make sure you won't lose actions to reload, you wanna fire as much as you can for reasons obvious

>Step 2: Learn Silver Crane Spiral

>Step 3: put an army in your first range increment. Maybe make the increment bigger too for kicks

>Step 4: once you're sure of your angles, use your finest all-attacks boost

>Unleash hell and let loose a thousand lines of hellish light

I hope you remember what happens with every attack you make with autofire weapons.

Yeah they're really really shitty and overpriced, but all of you knew deep down there had to be SOME kind of special build that makes them murderous. Every weapon has some after all.

Be the Guan Yu. Make the entire field your bridge.

How does automatic bonus progression interact with soulknives?

>>49264923
And anything for the actual Magic Missile spell?

>>49264418
Tell me of your troubles, anon.

>>49264975
not to my knowledge. There's not even a higher level force lance one like 3.5 had, and it'll stop cold from a shield spell or Chthonic steel equipment with nothing you can do about it for the most part.

Do look at the recent Spellburst Savant; it does come fairly close though it's not technically magic missiles, and DOES get to go all bullet-hell with its 'motes'.

>>49264923
>Bridge
Wasn't that Zhang Fei?

>>49265034
>Recommending something without telling someone where to find it or of its homebrew nature.

>>49264975
Not him. Hold on, I'm working on it, but its taking time, trying to comb through the SRD.

Though I have made some leeway so far. It will be soon, though spoiler it will most likely be a Wizard.

>>49264975
Intensify spell by RAW does technically let you get up to eight missiles at level 15, because the number of missiles is derived from caster level.

>>49262973
You may have deleted your comment, but we will all remember the butthurt rage that made you turn into the kind of loser that calls people 'kid' on the internet.

>>49258889
No.

>>49265089
Actually, by RAW it doesn't. Technically.

>An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels.

Magic Missile increases the number of missiles, not the damage dice.

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>>49265057
Oh sorry I assumed it was in here again there's been a link to it like every thread for the past week. It's up to like version 30 now or somethin.

Here you go. No idea if it's still the newest one.

Explain Pathfinder to me.

>>49265057
>Zhang Fei
I was wondering if someone would notice...

>>49265186
Have you ever made a dish that you added almost every single seasoning and sauce you had in your house, yet it's taste came out bland and gross ?

It's kinda like that.

>>49265057
>>49265184
Here's the link to the always updated version: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_hTbIXYbKJbS0VOT2dlTEhoWmM/view

How do I Card Caster? Ammunition is expensive to enchant, I was wondering if there's a better way to juice them up aside from just, y'know, arcane pool. Also, do cards count as darts (requires move action or quick draw feat to pull out) or as ammunition (drawn as part of the attack)? The Deadly Dealer feat seems to say they're both.

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>>49265034
>>49265057
>>49265184
It's not anymore.

You two have impeccable timing, as I've just gotten home from work and fixed some dumb mistakes I made in the Witch-casting ACF. When writing it I mistook Patron Spells as being at /spell levels 2/4/6, not class levels. It's been amended to just give you the full five patron spells.

Drive link to it (v30):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_hTbIXYbKJbS0VOT2dlTEhoWmM/view?usp=sharing

>>49265186
It's a game in which people create avatars and take on the roles of those characters in order to engage in a collaborative series of game-like stories.

>>49265186
They're a bit more expensive than Fire Warriors, but come with a markerlight on every model and can field a bunch of rail rifles.

>>49264986
I wanted to be a cool Str/Cha guy, but Pathfinder told me to fuck off unless I did hardcore multiclassing, or used 3pp, or got to gestalt. Meanwhile I can pull a build that uses Dex or Int (or both) out of my ass no problem and have it fully functional and something I'd want to use.

I am far more upset about this than I should reasonably be. I like the character and don't want to completely redo him, but I can't find anything Str/Cha based that I'm happy with.

>>49265509
In what way do you want to be able to use Charisma? Do you want class features which specifically key off it, or just the ability to have good Cha without getting fisted for putting points there?

>>49265277
We need to have a bit of words on the gun witch.
It has a problem; the feel of it isn't quite right.

The problem is this: While the abilities ARE nice, you're completely separating 2/3 of the character from the spellcasting outright. At most it becomes "uh I guess I'll grab some passive buffs".

I would have imagined some conductive spell-carrier shots that split the Nova bonus up between themselves and the loaded spell, but as is it just feels... it feels like there's this hard mechanical barrier between its origins as a spellcaster and the gunwitch results.

>>49265509
What's wrong with playing a Str/Cha Combat Bard?

>>49265266
It's fucked. By RAW, card caster can't use spell combat because it only works with melee weapons, and the archetype doesn't modify it. So at best you can throw one card per round with a spell attached to it. Or if you're a rules lawyer, you can throw daggers/starknives since they're technically melee weapons, but if you're doing that you may as well just use eldritch archer.

>>49265277
Who thought those cantrips are remotely balanced?

>Blockade
Small wall of force. Oh great now I can block a hallway with a cantrip and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. With Yoku Master and Kaizo Blockade I can either do it as a swift action, so I still have my actions to murder things, or I can cast it as an immediate and completely negate a creature's actions for the round.

>Last Chance
Why is this untyped? How is this not a shield bonus?

>Sickening Shadows
At-will Staggered at 3rd level and then it just gets worse.

>Starspray
Oh good, now a cantrip can be on par with an archer with damage. Oh and Bullet storm makes it even better than an archer.

The class itself is solid but holy shit those cantrips need a complete rework.

>>49265547
Just to give a further example: I am, right now, rolling up exactly a spellcasting gunner. You'd THINK this would be my first choice right? But it's completely incompatible. If I want to shoot their face and have spell go off, I gotta eldritch archer instead, or maybe go for a PRC of all things, except even then I'd always have to choose between using the Nova on the spell itself, or on the bullet itself, except if I use it on the gun, I should be full-attacking instead to make proper use.

It's... it just feels so disconnected. The ideas are there, but the execution's not quite right; there's a track here and a track there but they're so far apart the train's just sitting in the middle wondering what the fuck happened

>>49265509
Not even Paladin? or Oracle? Or how about Skald

>>49265509
You could even go for Cavalier. They don't inherently get cha-things, but it fits the class and Chain Challenge goes off charisma, which lets you use Challenge scads more.

>>49265600
The cantrips are explicitly more powerful because they are A: Limited to this sole class, and B: Needed to be relied on as useful from 1st to 20th level.

>>49265600
As >>49265705 notes, these cantrips are explicitly only available to spellburst savants and can only be cast if you possess the nova spell class feature. They're intended to be an always-relevant option to cover for the savant's few spells-per-day compared to an ordinary spellcaster or even a mid-caster.

>>49265547
While I agree with you on some level, that is, in some ways, the intended result. When writing it, I had considered making it Arcane Archer-esque (in particular an Imbue Arrow-like ability), but I didn't feel like that managed to support the fantasy of a gun-user. It was just "a mage who happens to have a gun." I also didn't want to steal the Eldritch Archer Magus' schtick, because I actually like that archetype and wanted to do something different from it. This is the same reason that there's no way to get Spellstrike natively on the class, even though it was brought up at one point as something to give them.

With the gun witch, I wanted an emphasis on the guns themselves more than the magic, and because of how Pathfinder works as a system, the answer was full attacks. This is not a mage first, it's a gish first, who packs magic for backup and buffs but spends her time shooting people in the face with a rifle.

>>49265600
I think they're remotely balanced. Do note that these are not quite "cantrips," despite the name. They're but they're (a) only usable (ever, even through wands and scrolls) by people with spellburst savant levels and (b) exist in order to give the spellburst savant some staying power throughout the day thanks to their relatively low amount of spell slots until very high levels.

They're class features, not 0-level spells. They just happen to take the same slot on a character.

>>49265746
consider looking at the shadowcaster from the tome of magic(dnd 3.5) for the way they did stronger cantrips.

>>49265746
Seems pretty clunky if I'm honest.

>>49265792
You mean the insultingly bad mysteries that were never worth using as a main option, even when they upgraded?

These ones seem to be taking cues from 4e and 5e at-will powers, rather than PF cantrips.

>>49265600
Well they're obviously meant to be a "this is a warlock" thing...

But you've got a point.

Blockade's fine until you can use it as an interrupt to simply end LoS/LoE outright whenever you want - you don't even need to Nova it. This wouldn't really be an issue for the most part in regards to collisions/shots/etc were it not for the fact that it has 30 hardness even without being Nova'd.

Were it to be significantly weaker unless you spend a nova on it, it could still be useful, but maybe the free interrupt (it's not even spending a martial counter after all) only lets you add, say, Caster Level Hardness against the hit, though you're still yourself struck. A Nova would let you add nova level x 10HP to it perhaps, so as an interrupt it's a mini force-wall that basically becomes up to 20 hardness 90HP against an incoming attack.


Starspray is 1d8+WIS, with shit range, so without nova that's not an issue.

6+Feat = 7[1d8+(say WIS 10)] at high levels on the other hand, is 101... so we don't have a problem here. Forget archers, this is "why are you wasting turn" territory.

Of course there's also the metamagics being applied. We Empower and Maximize this bitch, we're now sitting on 8+d8/2+15 for an average of about 176.

It's autohit if at least one hits first, and the rolled ones could crit for x2, but it's not that impressive. An archer at that level should be doing as much if he's picking his nose without a third hand, and easily twice this if he actually takes his bow and starts shooting.

>>49265786
Also, another thing to note: There's no way to increase your nova rank (buffing the cantrips) except class levels. Beyond the ACFs boosting them and metamagic, they literally cannot be boosted.

Even Starspray, while a decent-to-worthwhile main combat option, doesn't compete with a bow thanks to its lack of weapon abilities/bonuses/feat support/etc.

>>49265861
Yeah, that's a fair point. I'm going to nerf Kaizo Blockade some, and also write up some things to change how these cantrips are gained after some feedback occurred through other channels. And call them something other than "cantrips," to help with perception issues, since this has come up a couple times. >>49265836 has it right, they're 4e at-wills/5e-style cantrips.

>>49265924
Call them "Inherent Spells" or some shit

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>>49265864
Yeah you can give it good range and some special effects, but I have a hard time seeing it as a real main damage dealer unless it's being carried on the back of an already effective attack.

Like, if it could piggyback on a wave motion strike.

SPEAKING OF WHICH WHY IS THAT MELEE ONLY. DON'T THINK I DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT NAME.

>>49265924
good. we'll be keeping an eye out.

I understand your reasoning for gun witch, but the 'feel' of it remains a bit off. is there some way to reconcile the archetype in a way that the whole ability set flows more smoothly into its different new role?

>>49265966
It's melee-only because Shining Blade is melee-only. Honestly, I could see Shining Blade being melee-or-ranged, as a counterpart to Starspray that requires a weapon to use and only hits once.

I also kinda forgot that vital strikes can be used at range.

>>49265996
I dunno. I'll think on that and get back to you guys. I had given the Arcane Archer compatibility sidebar in order to help support that original concept I discarded, but that's really not enough, and I agree it feels a bit awkward and clunky, thematically/role-wise. Needs something more to help mesh its "spellcaster, first and foremost" with "but this one's a gunslinger first."

Thanks for the feedback.

How Do I soulknife (Warsoul, PsychicArmory, Gifted Blade)?

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>>49264012
>>49264975
>>49265088

>pt 1/2
Okay, first lets look at Magic Missile
Its a 1st level Sonic Spell, no save, no attack roll, does 1d4 damage, and can strike 5 targets starting at 5th level, and only deals 1d4+1 damage, meaning your base maximum is 5 per hit.
Since it requires no saves or attack rolls, you're gonna want to apply Toppling Spell metamagic feat, since that's essentially an auto-prone with no save or check. Perfect for fighting fliers and non-humanoids with ridiculous CMD.
This is your bread and butter, your Martials will thank you.
Now, you're limited on other ways to buff this spell, since the damage doesn't scale with level, its instantaneous, and its only 1st level as a base. Dazing, Disruptive, and Intensifying won't help much. Echoing is usually not worth it until you get higher level and with more metamagic, and Maximize just doesn't work on only a max of 5d4+5 (unless you wanna grab a Rod for it), unless you play an Aasimar with Consecrate Spell instead (though a rod may still be better for that). Don’t bother with preferred spell
Empower is good past 9th level, since it means you'll be shooting 7 missiles with 50% more damage. Merciful will be either really useful or trash pending on the campaign. Vast is highly situational. Still or Silent COULD be useful is going for a particular build (see below)
Shield is a big problem, since it says it negates the magic missiles without explaining why. Depending on how the GM rules it, the Seeking metamagic feat may or may not work, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Still, if it does, I recommend getting a rod for it, or grab a class ability for auto metamagic.
For class options and choices, he’s what you should go for: Elf or Human (for spell penetration) Wizard, Evocation school (for the bonus to damage for your missile, and a Missile Su effect).

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>>49266228
>pt 2/2

For other feats and discoveries, aside from the metamagics, grab the following in no particular order. Staff-like Wand, Craft Wand, Split Slot, Spell penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Craft Rod, Quickdraw, and maybe Creative Destruction if you are prone to smart enemies trying to geek the mage.
What you wanna do is start crafting a lot of Wands of Magic Missile, and metamagiced derivatives, that way you can reserve your slots for more useful spells since, honestly, being devoted to Magic Missile isn’t the best course of action.
You can also bump your overall helpfulness by focusing on other builds, such as becoming a Lore Master to be a good skill monkey, or taking levels in UC Rogue or Vivisectionist to get the Arcane Trickster to bum up damage with spell-sneak attacks.
As for other spells to take, if you are going to be dedicated to the aesthetic, then focus on more Force spells and apply more Toppling, and maybe the more condusive metamagics.
This is how you missile mage, unless I missed something

>>49263347
>Hungry Blossoms require TWF build to be usable
Not bad, maybe consider a single blade version with a tassel for general use. Having both blades be +2 might be a little much but I'm a nitpicky bastard.

>Bloody Barnacle
I'm confused on the damage text, does someone being struck take 2d6 damage, and then 4d6 damage for 1d4 rounds, or do they just take the 4d6/round and only the wielder takes 2d6 damage?
Either way, that's a really wide power gap between +1 corrosive (+1d6 acid) and the active effect (4-6d6 acid). Overall it feels like more of an artifact than a magic item.

>Tiger's Maw
>for some reason only works solo or with a set of full plate, despite the fact that most metal medium armors come with gauntlets as well
Also, primary natural attacks count as secondary attacks if used in addition to normal attack progression. This makes it far less useful for attacks than almost any other method of acquiring claw attacks. The construct side is neat, but feels a little useless at 1hr/week outside of campaigns that skip through weeks regularly.

8/10 needs more system consideration but better than most homebrew items I've seen.

Does the Panther Style chain make the unarmed stalker good?

>>49266228
Magic missile isn't sonic.

>>49266151
Yes.

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Yo, if any of the following anon are listed here, thanks a lot for playtesting Legendary Vigilantes!

D. M. Hentchel, Margherita Tramontano,
Richard Lawson (Rysky), Drifter S, Adam Ricks, Delta Pangaea, Craig Bice, Edna the Earth Seraph, Laucian
Nailo, Ecchi Woody, Christophe Gallen, Morgan Boehringer, Troy Gordon, Mashallah, Tuvarkz, Derek Blakely,
Samantha Hewett, Zaida Rodriguez, Eric Olsen.

>>49266228
MM is Force. Empower rounds down too so it won't help the +1 either.

>>49266285
That's not how you spell Dragon Style

>>49266299
>>49266228
>>49266333

>Sonic
Sorry, meant Force. Writing and research is hard when you have a cold

Also yea, I guess Empower isn't that great either.
It sucks to be missile mage. At least you can autotrip, so that should count for something.

>>49266367
You're not going to trip successfully, CL+INT versus CMD is shit.

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>>49266367
>STR-based

>>49266408
>being a filthy dex monkey

>>49266228
It's not a 100% that a DM will let you use Empower to get more missiles, mind. It has fucking horrendous wording. Like, is 'variable' mean to imply things that are rolled? Or does 'variable' include things that 'vary' based on caster level?

Cuz almost fucking everything is variable.

It also says it doesn't work on spells without random variables, implying that it only affects those random variables. But then magic missile has variable (Damage) and non-variable (missiles) aspects, so does one qualify the spell for the metamagic, and then does the metamagic thusly apply to the nonvariable number?

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>>49266383
Well, I just relooked at toppling, and saw you were right.

Nevermind, Missle Mage is useless. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars

>>49266304
Like are there any must take feats? Do I use power attack or deadly aim with the panoply? Disciplines I should trade stuff out for, etc?

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>>49265544
>>49265575
>>49265648
>>49265699
The biggest issue I'm running into is that the character is part of a 2-PC party that isn't gestalt. Trying to run through APs designed for parties of 4-5 PCs with just 2 isn't the dumbest idea, but it puts my autism into full overdrive trying to cover my ass. Selling gestalt is proving to be more difficult than anticipated.

Not going Paladin was mostly on account of the character not being LG, and switching to LG being too much of a shift. Bard and Skald... Are hard to pull off in a small party. Dervish Dancer Bard would be cool, but eh. Fuck Cavalier. I have nothing good to say about it. Mounts are also finicky and not good things to base your character around.

>Oracle in general
As much as I don't want to just default to it, since it just feels so painfully boring, it's probably exactly what I want and I'm just in denial. Doesn't stop me from using a longsword (Half Elves can jack Ancestral Arms, which pleases me greatly) and I can get a tiger. Which is rad as fuck.

>>49266500
>Mounts are also finicky and not good things to base your character around.
What about Beastrider?

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So /pfg/ I bought a thing, does anyone care or want screen shots?

how much do you fiend for the pathfinder dudes?

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Here things to be interested in.

>>49266664
is this the book that was never fucking coming out?

>>49266664
Jesus Jump Kick Christ, that thing is huge!

>>49266664
That is a lot of content.

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>>49266646
>Alex Agunas
I'm scared already.
Why would you do this to us anon? What did we ever do to you?

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>>49266688
You mean the thing that was supposed to be out like a year ago? Yeah.

>>49266720
He's a cunt. A cunt that's dumping a book for free but a cunt all the same.

How would you fix vital strike?

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>>49266720
The only thing I've found so far is Agunas's thing for age regression. It's everywhere.

>>49266664
>Binder remake
Why not just play Radience House?

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>>49266748
It is radiance house, but their naming scheme is fucking retarded because paizo stole the occultist name.

>>49265996
>>49266080
Personally I think the gun witch is perfect as it is, the metamagic feat affecting your bullets is exactly what it needed. It being an "arcane archer" like class is unnecessary, as we already have the "Eldritch Archer" magus archetype.

>>49266748
isn't this radiance house though

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>>49266792
It is.

>>49266747
Fuck, did he really get his gross fetish in muh binder?

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>>49266812
There's no babyfur art if that's what you're asking, but once this thing gets cleaned and troved you should ctrl+f the term youth.

>>49264128
A lot of the names were preserved from the original version of the class, my Malefactor homebrew back in the 3.5 days WAY before I ever got published. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of dulling the edge when you name curses.

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Oops skipped one.

>>49266917
Since you've read through this, presumably, is there any reason not to just bind Forash all day erryday at low levels now?

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>>49266977
Shit like azazati and cave mom scale well now believe it or not. So they become viable, but forash is still one of the better spirits.

>>49267000
Dang. Good to hear.

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OKAY SO.

I've updated the way the Spellburst Savant's special cantrips work.

>They are no longer cantrips; they're instead called Fundamental Spells
>You can't load up on them all at level 1; you start with 2 prepared at once and later scale up to all 6
>Kaizo Blockade nerfed; now requires level 8. It's also been reworded slightly to make it more clear that casting as an immediate action requires you to cast it as a nova spell
>Shining Blade made melee/ranged-agnostic. However, it only adds +Wis to damage in melee; at range, you'll have to make do with just +dice.
>Layout got utterly fucked by adding the Fundamental Spells ability, so things got moved around to fix it.

Link to version 31: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_hTbIXYbKJbS0VOT2dlTEhoWmM

I've also uploaded it here. Gotta go do some other stuff. Thank you all for your continued interest and feedback.

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>>49267010

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So, any requests from the table of contents or from the images I'm gonna dump?

>>49264761
not the other guy but did you try telling him that he's an idiot because there's a million ways to do alchemists

>>49266582
It's still a cavalier

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Original vestige name do not steal

>>49267077
Let's see Eos Dei and Coralene

>>49267113
>Alrik of Malkeborne, Albino pribce of chaos.
Those cgekky dick waffles.

What Path of War class makes the best antimage?

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No longer a coup de grace machine

>>49267336
Give us the Elric expy, im curious about his lore