So how do you like Kaladesh so far? The cards, the mechanics,

>>49170065
Honestly? I liked Soldiers being whites characteristic creature.

That said, the mechanics they've added are interesting and I like the setting a decent amount.

My only big worry is stuff like vehicles and energy counters being block exclusive. It just seems like really wasted potential and limits their viability in eternal formats.

>>49170096
Soldiers are too broad and not a race.

I could totally see energy return as the Izzet mechanic the next time we visit Ravnica.

You could have asked in one of the spoilers threads...

But I'm enjoying it. I like having options, and the energy, fabricate, and vehicle mechanics offer those.

And I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I think artifacts are one of the coolest super types in the game and I'm always glad to see more. Not pushed shit like Deathcoil Wurm, but Aetherworks Marvel and Woodweaver's Puzzleknot are rad

>>49170130
Soldiers are not too broad, and that's what makes them interesting. Zombie is also sometimes not a race.

Also, if they really needed a white "race" it should have been cats. There's already some support for cat tribal.

It's shit

For the most part I like it.

Positives
+ some of the art is really rad, like the fast lands. the tone in general of the art is great
+ vehicles seem really interesting and the art formatting looks great (like that legendary ship)
+ the positive tone is awesome, I've had enough grimdark for a while and it's great that the jacetice league isn't making too big of an appearance yet. Lorwyn was one of my favorite sets and this feels a bit like it

Negatives
- some of the art is really bad - Saheeli Rai's, for example. That's about as bad as you can get for digital art, and digital can be bad
- not really for this set, but I'm almost positive some jacetice league storyline is going to fuck this realm up in the next set. it's frustrating that even though some of these characters look interesting, they nailed the tone, the setting is colorful and fantastic, WotC will bend us over with Chandra and Liliana shit in the next set at the latest. the sooner garruk slaughters everyone the better
- energy seems really, really, really fucking lazy. I don't want to say they're out of ideas but it feels like they shipped it in with energy
- I can't really blame WotC for this because they need to make money, but creating what now seems like 99% of the cards for limited is annoying. Only mythic and rates and be interesting and playable outside of limited anymore. But whatever, I get that they need to sell packs...

>>49170166
What was wrong with angels?

>>49170299
They are white's iconic race. Like sphinx for blue, demon for black, dragon for red, and hydra for green. But it has been lacking a characteristic race. Like merfolk for blue, vampire for black, goblin for red, and elf for green.

I liked the art direction more than the gameplay. Don't liked any of the mechanics neither any card had catch my eye. I don't know, it kinda feels off.

>>49170065

It's filled with plenty of "limited bombs" and cards that will "go great in my EDH deck"

It's a shame you can't do anything with the cards after draft is over.

>>49170065
>how do you like Kaladesh so far
i don't.

Nobody does.

meme edition should just be deleted.

>>49170065
I saw Saheeli spoiler and I dropped. I do not want to pay for this kind of art.
Maybe my gf will get one card that I will like in the draft league but, out of that, I will wait until Egypt the plane.

>>49170281
Garruk is never coming back

>>49170299
Angels have traditionally been the "big" tribe that usually sees one or two rares every set, much like demons for black, dragons for red, sphinxes for blue, and hydra for green. These arent going anywhere anytime soon. The tribes we're talking about are the small tribe that fills the majority of the colored creatures in each set, like red goblins, white humans, green elves, blue merfolk, or tribes for certain blocks, like white kithkin and blue faeries in lorwyn.

Recently, white has come across the issue where "white humans" isnt working anymore, because magic has been moving into a lower strata of fantasy where characters must be relatable, and the easiest characters to create relatable motives for are humans. In recent sets, humans have been expanding into more and more colors as they take on every side of every plane's conflict so that every story can have relatable human characters. In fact, as a notable example, so many green humans have been printed that green is failing to represent its own creature types (did you know, for example, that innistrad has normal wolves and beasts that are not werewolves? SOI/EMN didn't). So, due to humans spreading into every color, white, traditionally the largest creature tribal set, has lost its major tribe, and it needs a replacent.

>>49170345

white has cat-folk

>>49170606
Maro said they aren't popular enough to be white's race. Same with Kithkin.

>>49170606
There are many sets where cat-folk aren't thematic.

>>49170345
White has humans.

I know, humans appear in every color, but they're predominantly white

If we can get a red deck that can compete with durdle turn 1, durdle turn 2, three toughness on turn 3, three toughness turn 4, standard will be fixed from the shitfest that it currently is. Thr way the set currently looks, this isnt going to happen, and "vehicles will save red" is just going to push us even further into 7-mana midrange and stalled boards of fat creatures with no relevant abilities.

>>49170701
Go away /pol/

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Why does it trigger /pol/acks that Aetherborn don't have genders when sexless constructs never should have had genders to begin with?

Karn gets a pass for having a dude's spark, and MTG's Angels are all female (exempting Platinum Angel), but everything without a distinct sex is genderless by default. No one's shitting their pants about Golems or Myrs or whatever the fuck Ashiok is.

>>49170771
Bronze bombshell is a joke card. Thats why it is gendered.

>>49170771
People did shit their pants over Ashiok.

He was just over-shadowed by black Greeks.

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>>49170281
>Only mythic and rates and be interesting and playable outside of limited anymore

?

>>49170717

Given that most of the direct human support in the last block was in white/green, the guy's not wrong.

>>49170898
He knows, he was just making a joke.

I'm pretty sure he was. I'd make a joke like that anyway

>>49170717
>>>/reddit/

>>49170834
>typos; the shitposting
That said, I really like what they're doing with dwarves in this set. Focusing them on not just "lol mountain guys that break walls and non-basic lands" to a race that is supportive of the collective (white) and builds/creates (red). The designers for this really nailed it.

>>49171059

You realize it was just a direct quote, right?

>>49171059
>builds/creates (red)

Building is white.

>>49171123
Holy fuck I'm a retard. in my defence I'm coming down from k and m

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The problem with giving White an iconic non-human race is that there's not much you'd associate with Plains other than people.
>Leonin
Furry Humans
>Kor
Homeless Humans
>Giants
Big Humans
>Dwarves
Short Humans
>Kithkin
Shorter Humans
>Spirits
Dead Humans
Bird Humans, Elephant Humans, and Fox Humans appear rarely and are completely forgettable.

Merfolk have distinct designs and societies. Goblins have distinct designs and societies. Zombies are the opposite of people. Elves get a free pass to be racist. Every distinctly white intelligent race is a boring everyman human, even if it doesn't look like one.

>>49170834
>can't kill significantly more expensive creatures for no additional cost
It's not the Vampire Whitehawk it needs to be.

>>49171059
Sadly, red is all about 'liberating' the Aether from inventions. The red race is literally the villainous race, a non-intelligent species of acid-spewing mana-eating hybrids of naked mole rats and ant-eaters.

>>49171131
Building machines and artifice as a passion or art is red. Building them for science or as a utility is blue. Typically white isn't much of an artifice color.

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>>49171250

https://youtu.be/nyhzyLttUOk?t=860

I guess you know something the Kaladesh world building team doesn't know.

>>49171220

It's still a good card, just more useful early game while Vampire Nighthawk is useful later. Either way it'll see constructed play.

>>49171304
Oh hey, that's actually something I haven't seen. I was wondering how the five colors worked on Kaladesh

That said, I wasn't wrong about the colors in general, but I was wrong about Kaladesh. My bad.

>>49171304
Not him but prior sets red has been a heavy artifice colour (either breaks the artifact,builds the artifact, or both).

>>49171220
Is that samurai dual-wielding two off-hand weapons?

>>49170281
>That's about as bad as you can get for digital art
Oh! Sweet summer child. cgi eldazi

>>49171220
>Bird Humans are completely forgettable.
the Aven in Odyssey were fucking awesome

>>49170281
>I don't want to say they're out of ideas but it feels like they shipped it in with energy
Maro has been pushing for energy since Mirrodin 1.

>>49171328

I'm not so sure a 1WW card will see constructed play, doesn't really fit into any existing white deck all that well

>>49171370
It's all about breaking artifacts or driving vehicles in this set.

>>49171430

If Mantis Rider can see play, I don't see why a similar card with less color investment wouldn't.

>>49171123

It was my post, sorry for the retarded spellchecking, my browser must have updated and now its autocorrecting things on 4chan despite never having done that before.

I stand by what I said. That card is decent and might see play in standard, thats about it. It was printed because its very, very good in limited. r&d probably saw a lack of power in white in limited and said "let's give it some help." other than that it is boring and uninteresting

>>49170638
Fuck, why and how, that was their ticket to getting furries and girls into Magic, how did they fuck up? I got plenty of awkward boners from Skyhunter Cub when I was an impressionable, angsty teenager

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>>49171385
Jitte are off-hand. Sai are typically a pair.

>>49171417
Do you know the last 3 Aven CHARACTERS to be printed? Kirtar (who went out with a bang), Teroh (who died like a bitch) and Eesha (whom, while a good card, didn't contribute much to the plot). All of these cards were printed in Odyssey block. There have been other Aven printed since, but they are universally forgettable nameless trash.

>>49171657
>There have been other Aven printed since, but they are universally forgettable nameless trash.
that's because all blocks after Odyssey are universally forgettable nameless trash

>>49171456

That's a decent point but, common misconception, two different colored pips is actually easier than two of the same colored pips, because multicolor decks are more common and when you're playing multicolor, the first thing you want a lot of the time is one of each of your colors

Mantis rider was also in a multicolor obsessed standard meta, might be different now

And finally its not perfect for a white weenie deck, it's good but maybe not worth a slot in white weenie

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>>49171571
>I got plenty of awkward boners from Skyhunter Cub when I was an impressionable, angsty teenager
Kitsune Diviner and Orochi Sustainer had an... effect on me in my youth.

>>49170065
Kaladesh so far is exactly as I was expecting it to be. A 'fun' set where most cards are potentially usable in EDH but not the most practical of things. I even expected a new artifact type, though not vehicles in particular. The biggest surprise for me where the Aetherborn and Dwarves.

On another note, I really like Energy because I have a thing for tokens you obtain as a player since I built Mizzix and Mereen. As long as they give me options to redeem them in a variety of ways, I'll be sure to build around them. As a matter of fact, I'm already starting to experiment with a highly synergistic Investigate/Energy build I want to try out in Modern.

Finally, I really gotta hand it to Creative, they really made a compelling world and that's what I care about most.

>>49170065
obligatory thread theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_BKcU

I bet there will be a creature with power and toughness equal to the number of energy counters you have or something similar.

>>49171927

Possibly a firebreathing creature

>>49170524
>meme edition should just be deleted
That's not how memes or physical objects work.

>>49170096
I don't know why they thought dropping the yearly Core Set was a good idea. It's the perfect place to dump support for old mechanics. Because god knows they don't print it in Commander

>>49172059
probably because the core set didn't print greenbacks like the expansion sets do

>>49171408
Still better than certain artists in the earliest sets...then again, they had some really really good shit too.

>>49170065
mediocre concept
ugly aesthetics
mostly boring mechanics
uninteresting characters

>>49171814
I can certainly relate to that.

I still have a copy of Kitsune Diviner in my bulk box.

>>49170065

I can finally make a Dwarf themed edh deck, with bonus vehicles thrown in. Therefore it is good in my eyes.

I don't care much for the setting, honestly, and if the story is anything close to what it has been for a while now, it will be complete ass, so whatever.

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>>49172179

>>49170065
>So how do you like Kaladesh so far?
good job, gold star.

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>>49171842
>a really compelling world
>a cyberpunk world without the edge and without the cool gritty aesthetics
Are you shitting me?

>>49172293

When everything is pretty and edgy, a genuinely nice world is refreshing.

>>49170065
Totally making Mad Mardu Fury Road deck.

I really like the overall tone and aesthetic of the plane. Invention, bright colors, black tribe not being some generic oogaboogas from the crypt... Can't wait to see how wizards will fuck this up and weep.

>>49172315
Not when its potential lies in horror and violence.

PHYREXIALADESH WHEN?

>>49172315
This. We went from Greek gods being dicks for a whole set to khans/dragons being dicks for a whole set to grim eldrazi war to GRIMMER Innistrad going to shit.

This plane gets to be the nice and happy one before everything goes to shit.

>>49172361
I hate phyrexiafags so much. You're shitty villain should have stayed dead in the 90s where it belonged.

>>49172353
They already did, by overloading everything with girly swirly shit that has no place outside of blue.

>>49172353
The next set is called Aether Revolt.

Have no doubt, it'll end with Kaladesh burning and it somehow being held up as a 'good' thing, after they spent all of this spoiler season hyping it up as a beautiful and wonderful place full of inspiration and brilliance.

>>49172050
at this point, this edition is basically magic being a parody of itself. It's worst than Megamorph.

>novel setting
>dwarves returning
>colored artifacts
>new EDH staple artifacts
>1 drop counterspell against colorless
>color shifted pseudo vampire nighthawk
>color shifted kraken hatchling
>ENEMY FUCKING FAST LANDS

All to be ruined next set with the appearance of the Gatewatch.

>>49172385
Editions don't exist in MtG. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>49172379
The 90s are the right and natural state of things, though.

>>49170576
Can't wait for KANGZ set

>>49172059
The two-block model WAS a good idea. Before, even the good blocks kind of ran out of steam by the third set or had a terribad second and even if it didn't happen, the plane got old before we left.

Two sets also means they gotta cram much more shit and the designs they are actually excited about rather than filler. Maybe the cards are underpowered, but how many rares/myths would you outright call 'filler'?

I know, in my case: 4. Just 4 cards that I think are pointless or have no virtues whatsoever.

>>49172156
>in the earliest sets
Not digital art, not what I was disagreeing with.

>>49171238
Goblin Stand-in

>>49172384
>"good"
>implying burning this shitty amusement park for girls to the ground wouldn't be an actually good thing

>>49172384
Yeah, i know. My bet is on Chandra deciding to go full Rakdos.

You never go full Rakdos.

Wait, I thought this was the egypt set?

>>49172413
call it whatever you want. Fact is, it sucks.

who the hell even puts 8 symbols for counters counters in a card when you could literally just write '8 counters'? why does this shit even get a symbol? why are vehicles a thing? why is it that the cards are so bad?

>>49172463
nope, this is poo in the loo set
Egypt is 2017

>>49172463
No, that's next set.

This set is artifacts-matter-but-not-as-much-as-Mirrodin-and-it-has-Indian-aesthetics.

>>49171304
>Blue Deceit
>On white side
Surprise suprise

>>49172419
>90s were the right state of the world
>Comics were edgy and full of 'ambiguous' violence like like the last Superman movie
>Banks were allowed to go full Jew and designed financing as a sucks to be you storm.
>Diversity levels that actually make the current era SJWs seem racist as fuck.

I never thought I'd see anyone on 4chan say any of these things were good.

>>49172463
Egypt is next set.

>>49172293
>A cyberpunk world wit nothing that resembles cyberpunk nor the slightest hint at it
Have you considered that Kaladesh might NOT be a cyberpunk world?

Steampunk is more like it and even that's very far-fetched if you ask me.

>>49172381
>girly
Isn't it September now? Why aren't you back in school yet?

>>49172487
You forgot to go full memelord, you should have said 'WEWUZKANGS is 2017' instead.

>>49172211
Just fished a fresh one out of a Kamigawa tournament pack, sort of want to hotglue it for old times sake. Might even Xtube the endeavor, if I'm feeling degenerate enough.
Want to watch?

>>49172478
Nah, I'm done with you. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

You're just some kid that walked in from a D&D thread, played a few games of Magic Duels and thinks that they're a GP pro.

>>49172535
Yes

>>49170359
Either English is your second language or your're having a stroke. In the case of the latter, might wanna get that checked.

>next set:
KALADESH IS TORN ASUNDER BY CIVIL WAR AS A MAD INVENTOR CREATES A DEVICE THAT SHAKES THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF KALADESHIAN CULTURE:
toilets

>>49172504
shit runs on magical electricity
they got spy drones
they got mechs
they got bionic shit
they got the groundwork laid for cyberpunk MtG but instead it's just gay.

>>49172565
>no arguments
c'mon, at least use a weak one like "s-some people may like the setting"

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>>49172624
They already HAVE sewers though.
Yes I know you're memeing, it's still an old joke

>>49172655
It's not really supposed to be cyberpunk, they aren't even trying to imply it is. It's just a city with a slightly strict government that wants to hold an inventor's fair, which was common in Europe during the industrial era. People used to do those.

>>49172353
>>49172361
>>49172384
Forget about it. No Phyrexia and no radically running the plane into the ground. Maro already said that one of the things he sought to correct in Magic design was making small expansions too different from the first sets and altering settings too much both mechanically and flavor-wise.

That does not mean they won't EVER do it again, but with the second set of the next block being called fuckin' "Hour of Devastation" I think its clear that Wizards ain't gonna overdo it with Aether Revolt if only so they can go full Apocalypse Now in Hour of Devastation.

What I expect is that the set will focus on the Renegade's side of things and portray Kaladesh in a new, not so pleasant light, albeit not actually changing the setting much, that's for the Return to do.

Oh yeah bby, expect AT LEAST one return to Kaladesh. ARV is likely to be tbe start of a large conflict in the plane, that'll be resolved in the return. THEN Phyrexia shenanigans might happen, since the Kaladeshi are dabbling with forces deeply connected to the Blind Eternities. Ramshi's Matter Transporter is only the tip of the iceberg.

>>49172535
Fuck no, that's messed up.

What's the general opinion on The Gate Watch?

>>49172794
I'd poo in this loo.

First time spouting this meme. Hopefully last.

>>49170771
Because constructs are manufactured and don't pretend to have rights.

>>49172944
Best thing that ever happened to MtG

>>49172944
Avacyn's collar, the symbol of her church 2.0

>>49172944
Excellent marketing device, a masterstroke on Wizard's part.

/tg/ can hate all it wants, but sales speak for themselves. People are so into that trash Wizards doesn't even need to keep printing modern playables anymore. The Gatewatch is selling packs like no one's business and is getting a lot of casual attention + more enfranchised players that are becoming more akin to zealots as time goes on.

Fucking genius idea.

>>49172665
Not him, but as a testament I do like the setting. And the mechanics. And most of what I've seen so far has received mild to positive reception.

You are not the Supreme Arbiter of Taste. You don't have any sort of authority over what others might like or not.

>>49172944
the gatewatch, the watchers of this gate, the gate that needs watching.

>>49172944
Still waiting for a Legion of Doom

>>49172794
>People used to do those.
Wish it was still a thing, I actually wanted to be an inventor when I was a kid. From that point onwards I directed my life towards scientific research of the genetic sorts.

That's why I'm buying a box of this set. It really strikes close to home for me.

>>49172624
What would it take for you toi let go of this meme?

>>49173470
Living conditions in India catching up to Western standards.

>>49173504

Sounds like a dumb reason to spout memes.

>>49170065
There's a disconcerting lack of blue in the spoilers so far. Even Black got more attention and it was the color I expected to get shafted.

>>49173536

Probably nothing too exciting about it other than what we've already seen blue do with artifacts before.

>>49173504
I can't believe you didn't get the pun.

>>49173559
No way, red and blue are the main focus of the set, with white and green being the secondary colours. There's no chance they DON'T have anything for blue this set.

See >>49171304 they literally appointed blue as the colour of innovation rather than red.

>>49172454
No chance. For now the Gatewatch will all remain monocolored because that's their shtick, being the representative walkers of each colour.

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>>49170065
Its like Solemn simulacrum and Kitchen finks had a baby!

>>49170065

Rashmi is my EDH brownfu.

Saheeli a poo.

Depala is fat-chick cosplay tier.

Vehicles are a cute meme, and that's it.

Energy is Wizards trying to add Netrunner chips into Magic and failing.

>>49174581

A retarded baby, you must mean.

So... Crew is a shittier Devotion.

"Create" is a flavorful, but pointless change of wording.

Energy counters -could- be interesting, but I think they'll either be over costed or under utilized.
The enchantment exampled is a 3-drop, which on it's own takes 8 more turns to create... a 6/6 Beast/Artifact.

Fabricate is... alright. Would be more interesting if the token had modular... but eh.

Putting 6 energy symbols in a row on a card seems like something you would only see in a custom card thread. Everything about the set looks fun except for energy. Energy seems both stupid and ugly.

>energy is basically NWO splice
WHY.JPG

>>49174910

"Create" is mainly there to save space on cards.

>>49175110
In their example card, it literally just replaces "put" meaning its taking up more space...

The real space filler there is the declaration of all the abilities and types of the token. Which changing a single word doesn't help.

>>49175153
relooking, I notice it also cut the "Onto the battlefield"

Point redacted.

>>49175110

I feel like most of the templating changes Wizards has been doing in the last few sets don't actually help new players.

If you already plays Magic is a pretty straight forward change, but it's not clear at all that "create" means "put tokens into play under your control".

>>49174910
crew has nothing to do with tracking the state of the battlefield, or scalig effects. vehicles function somewhat like equipment you only want to use on tokens and summoning sick creatures.

Create vs Put... onto the battlefield. Fewer characters, more room for other meaningful text. Just like dies vs put into the graveyard from the battlefield.

energy is a lot more like devotion (still not very), and it's going to complicate the shit out of figuring out your opponent's lines of play, since a lot of spells can stay significant for more of the game with enough energy

"this creature gets a counter, or else you get a mook" is an interestig choice. "tgis creature gets a counter unless you get a mook (which, don't worry, you can turn back into another counter later)" is not as interesting. One asks you to make a cgoice, the other makes the choice less of a commitment.

>>49175237
>crew has nothing to do with tracking the state of the battlefield, or scalig effects. vehicles function somewhat like equipment you only want to use on tokens and summoning sick creatures.
Its more the conditional non-creature to creature state.

Admittedly, it is made better because of it's method of tapping being as it is.

And, yeah, I'll give you that on Fabricate.

>>49174910
>So... Crew is a shittier Devotion.
It's nothing like Devotion, at all.

>"Create" is a flavorful, but pointless change of wording.
Depends on wether you consider shorter, more intuitive wording 'pointless'

>Energy counters -could- be interesting, but I think they'll either be over costed or under utilized.
With only 3 mechanics, Maro has already confirmed they'll expand a lot on all of them so they definitely won't be underused.

>The enchantment exampled is a 3-drop, which on it's own takes 8 more turns to create... a 6/6 Beast/Artifact.
Its a creature and a pretty efficient energy generator, even if its a subpar output for it.

>Fabricate is... alright. Would be more interesting if the token had modular... but eh.
You don't know what you are saying, modular tokens would be broken as shit.

>>49175403
>Its a creature...
... Clearly I need to go partake of some unconciousness.

>>49170065
DWARVES
GOING
FAST

>>49175202
Apparently their research showed that new players thought that you had to have the tokens IN THE DECK and IN YOUR HAND to "put them on the battlefield".

You can't make this shit up. That being said, I don't see how the "create" wording clears this up in the slightest.

I actually hate token cards in general. I always use dice. There is one player in my group who will spend like 5+ minutes going through his box of tokens every time one is "needed" instead of just dropping a dice down and carrying on with things. Fuck token cards.

>>49175833
create makes text shorter, which makes room for other meaningful text. Pretty sure that's the only motivation. Just like the moves to dies.

Where did you hear that shit about new players?

>>49175833
tokens would be a lot more manageable if the game didn't fundamentally involve a lot of turning creatures sideways. But since it does - and God forbid they have meaningful subtypes or non-square stats - token cards are the best way to go.

>>49175907

Brevity shouldn't be prioritized over clarity. I don't think it's necessarily a bad change, but personally I feel like using terms like "dies", "exile", "create" etc,. instead of explaining the actual effect on the card itself, muddles the understanding of the game if you don't have a rules glossary by your side while learning to play.

DESIGNATED

>>49176089
SHITPOSTING

>>49172794

>sewers

Makes sense, they need somewhere to funnel all the poo from the streets.

>>49176037

>literally thinks RFG zone is a good way to handle the !Graveyard.

Jesus Christ.

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>>49176120

MEMES

>>49175691
>Urist cancels ride cart: too insane.

>>49171814
Yep. I fapped to those kitsune titties.

>>49170065
AEtherborn are the best addition, nothing else comes to mind really.

Still think that green and artifice being together are really weird, but they did make some effort into connecting the two.

>>49172293
They did state they tried making a steampunk influenced world on stream, not a cyberpunk one.

>>49170771
>and MTG's Angels are all female (exempting Platinum Angel)
Wasn't there a male Angel in Planar Chaos or some shit?

>>49176352
They and Gabriel Angelfire are the only exceptions to the rule.

Personally, I'd love to see some female demons.

>>49176352

Exceptions don't count shitlord! There's also a Legends one. Gabriel something.

>>49170771

Because people are making a big deal about it like it's a super awesome thing that makes everything better, when it's just a story telling choice

>>49170065
Vehicles are a flavour hit, but a gameplay miss. Also, I find the vehicle frame template really ugly. Given how much success they have actually had with alternate frames recently this is a surprise.(devoid as a mechanic was stupid but the gold cards with it had amazingly detailed frames).

Fabricate has a lot of synergy with cards past and present - be on the lookout for cards that have a higher number than just Fabricate 1 on them. Any card that makes multiple threats/targets for an efficient cost is good - everything from Broodmate Dragon, Whirler Rogue, Cloudgoat Ranger and things like Lingering Souls.

Energy...I'm not sold on yet. It isn't parasitic but it is really insular. It is either going to get too much support so that large portions of the set is saturated with it (and are thus only really good when playing with other cards from the set) or it will have too little support and not be worth it. 90% of MTG cards already "don't make the cut" for most decks without having to jump through additional resource hoops on top of everything else they get judged on.

>>49176404
To be fair, Malach of the Dawn is literally from an alternate timeline. That can reasonably not count, I think.

>>49170065
>What's your opinion on WotC trying to push dwarves into white's empty "characteristic creature" slot?
If that was what was happening I'd be pretty thrilled. Dwarves are the only race that fulfill all the criteria a characteristic race needs to fulfill and are generally portrayed as more white than red in fantasy anyway - literally the only reason they're considered red is because they live in mountains, but a shark isn't blue because it lives in the sea; it's the greenest predator there is.

However, I don't think that's what's happening. At best Wizards are testing the waters to see how the public reacts to them, but most likely they just fet Dwarves were a good fit for this particular world, much like how Orcs were in Tarkir.

>>49174581
A baby that's weaker than both of them.

>>49170065
i wish vehicle worked more like champion
fabricate seems weak compared to the creatures from origins which made 1/1 flying thopters
dwarf tribal not so bad, but is mostly just for the show, most spoiled dwarves are crap
energy counters seems gimmicky, more than anything
i like the aetherborns, the way they look and gonti could be useful in commander since it has a useful ETB

>>49173416
Yeah, I did science fairs a lot as a kid. Went into literature instead, but they're some nice memories.

>>49176507

Vehicles are great for a pooinloo inspired setting because Hindu mythology is full of magical "divine vehicles" that are spaceships and stuff.

>>49170065
When I read "Fabricate" I had to double check Steamflogger Boss to see what his ability was called.

Pretty cool setting.

Vehicles are pretty shit mechanically but cool conceptually.

Energy counters are uninteractive.

Cool commander stuff.

U counter target colorless spell is going to fuck Tron and Eldrazi in the ass.

>>49170065
>So how do you like Kaladesh so far?
I like it a lot.

>The cards, the mechanics, the flair, the story, etc.
The cards have been good so far, but I play limited so my interest in rares and mythics is pretty low.
Crew is an awesome mechanic, flavourful as hell and raise a lot of interesting questions for evaluation. Cards similar to fabricate creatures have existed before and are usually very strong, will be weird to see a set with tonnes of them. Im not so hot on energy counters, feels a little too close to splice and infect, but it could have potential.

>Where do you see potential?
Mostly vehicles and the art. Would like to see more crazy mechs and funky armour.

>What's your opinion on WotC trying to push dwarves into white's empty "characteristic creature" slot?
I think its just for this block. Its not like Satyrs became Green new characteristic creature after Theroes.

>What do you hope to see?
An indestructible mech with crew 6.

>>49170065
>Scars lands are being printed
Huh, thought they were a bit powerful, I'm surprised they are being repr-
>ENEMY scars lands
Well fuck me then, and here I thought they might be ramping down the power of duals.

>>49171304
>that QnA at the end
Jesus fucking christ.

Energy seems confusing and I'm pretty sure someone on /tg/ came up with a Crew like mechanic for their pirate themed set.

Pretty interesting. Absolute garbage writers aside this set may actually be fun.

>>49170096
>vehicles and energy counters being block exclusive
Block exclusive is probably only right if either is extremely poorly received. Otherwise they both seem likely candidates to return, even if not at evergreen status (which is not only because of complexity issues but also because both are thematically tied to hi-tech settings which Magic doesn't do often).

>>49170166
>Zombie is also sometimes not a race
Which is also a reason Vampires are Black's major characteristic race these days rather than Zombies.

At the moment, Humans are the closest White has to a characteristic race, but it's not a good fit because humans show up in all five colors.

>Bring Dwarfs back
>Make sure they don't look anything that could be considered a Dwarf
ok.jpg

>>49178418
They're short people with beards. They look more like dwarves than the duergar did

>>49178676
They're supposed to be a bit stocky. Like they're a bit broader and built tougher. These just look like normal people someone took the scale tool too, but only slightly.

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>>49178418

A dwarf doesn't have to look like Gimli to be a dwarf.

>>49178785
>>49178676
But a race needs to look unique.
These new dwarfs look just like humans.
So far they don't even look short.

>>49178822

In case you didn't notice, dwarves are typically just short stocky humans with beard.

And we haven't even seen anything with which to compare the available dwarves in their art. How can they possibly not "look short"?

>>49170065
Here's one thing I don't like: on that artificer of the untamed card (and all the other ones where you have to pay energy), why not make it just "Pay 8 energy counters" or "Pay 8 energy"? Why make it "Pay EEEEEEEE"? That's dumb.

>>49178858
think he means their proportions are too perfect and Dwarfs look a bit off when shown next to a human. These just straight up look like (supposedly) small normal humans.

>>49178916

Which is reallysilly, to say that what defines a dwarf is something like non-perfect proportions of all things.

>>49178938
Well, in real life, dwarfs do have weird proportions which sets people with dwarfism apart from other types of little people

I haven't sifted through the whole spoiler yet, but from what I've seen of the mechanics I think it's a set I can safely skip buying my normal case for. The cards posted here on /tg/ don't particularly inspire me, and as an eternal format player I just don't see them being used.

Vehicles and energy as mechanics don't seem like they will get used outside of kaladesh, and playing an artifact that requires other creatures to turn into a creature, I just don't think that's efficient and going to be used at all outside of kaladesh block and limited play. Maybe, MAYBE standard.

>>49178858
>How can they possibly not "look short"?
Because when you see something sufficiently human-like you automatically assume that it's the same size as a regular human unless you have a reference that contradicts this assumption.

>>49175833
Why the fuck doesn't he just store the relevant tokens in the box with the corresponding decks?

>>49178888
Well, that's how they do costs for any kind of mana other than generic mana, and energy counters are like fake persistent mana of an unknown color.

>>49179071
Well, we've mostly seen dwarves next to technological things, and it'd be weird if technological things they build and use weren't to scale with them.

>>49171220
The problem is mainly that a characteristic race must be a well known fantasy race. MtG original races such as Kor, Kithkin and Leonin are therefore out - even if they theoretically could take up the role in individual sets.

Characteristic races must also be relatively small and printable in large numbers at common, so Giants are right out. Moreover, they must only appear in their primary color under normal circumstances - Innistrad's tribal theme is not a normal circumstance - so Spirits are also disqualified (and Giants as well on a second point).

>>49173562
Not actually a pun, just word play.

>>49177293
It's effects are worse than either of them, but it's cost is exactly what the doctor prescribed for Emerge decks.

>>49170524
Okay tryhard, get some fresh air

>more creature combat
its like im really playing Hearthstone!

>tfw Live Fast/Die Young

>>49170065
I really like the vehicles, the fabricate mechanic, the idea of all this tech. I'm happy dwarves are making a comeback, and that there's a super cool vedalken planeswalker.

Aetherborn are my only pet peeve. What the fuck? They are literally almost-spirits! It's like the special snowflake race for this set. I haven't seen a non-legendary aetherborn, so it seems to me that making up a specific creature type for this kind of creature who literally looks like a spirit or enchantment creature like those from Theros is absolute bullshit. The card in itself is ok, it's creating useless creature types that bugs me. Just that.

>>49172665
not that guy but
>come on give me some cheap arguments for me to gun down so I can feel better about my own average intelligence

>WotC trying to push dwarves into white's empty "characteristic creature" slot
I don't think that's going to happen. It's not like when orcs came back in tarkir it became black's new characteristic race. They are a creature type that probably gets requested a lot because it's an iconic fantasy race. I'm actually inclined to believe they won't put in dwarves in as many sets later on because it's such an iconic fantasy race, and they want to keep the magic brand somewhat unique. It's something they will do time to time, but not as a usual thing.

honestly the commander feels too much like a munda to me.

>>49171304
Can somebody give me a simple explanation of what "Synthesize" means on the order of one of those other words? I fucking hate it when they throw out meaningless bullshit like that, because the actual definitinon of "synthesis" is to create or combine, which is the same fucking thing as "build" with an additional "combining" connotation.

Which doesn't really matter because it's not like Red's getting Meld artifacts, so why the fuck pick something like "Synthesize"?

I wish we could just skip to Amonkhet right now.
Nothing in this plane or set excites me at all.
Black seems off and red kinda weird.
Vehicles are a flavor and art atrocity the likes that I've rarely seen before.

>>49172944
It's certainly telling at least that the only actual complaints about it in reply to this post aren't even mentions of how derivative it is but stale memeing about overwrought flavortext.

>>49178785
It mostly just bugs me that dwarves are mostly going to be white now instead of the red dwarves we used to get. I liked those.

>>49172059
>It's the perfect place to dump support for old mechanics. Because god knows they don't print it in Commander
It's getting printed in Conspiracy and Masters instead(masters is shit, but Conspiracy 2 was fun)

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>>49171814
Mine was always Kashi tribe reaver. Dem thighs and thought of four arms.

>>49170065
I would prefer cats or lionin. Dawrfs will always be red to me because red is mountains. Lions fit with plains.

>>49182507
That was an screw-up on the slide. What was meant to be there was 'Liberate' in the form of the Gremlins.

Humans represent "Synthesize" as they're present in all five colors and can therefore represent any of the 5 stages of invention.

>>49170130
Soldiers are white. Given that soldiers need order, otherwise they're just marauders.

I can nesting doll vehicles like a fucking sickass Ganmen. Kaladesh is rad as fuck.

>>49171220
>merfolk. are just fish humans, and goblins are just short ugly humans with bad teeth. every race is mildly humanoid otherwise its a monster or a beast.

>>49182507
I think it was an error or something. I thought he actually says Red is "Liberate".

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>>49182597
>>49171814
>>49171571
Sexy, sexy fishtits.

The version with fishtits dropped 2001, holy shit I'm old.

i like the flavor on skyship. It pops in firing all silos. Grabbing one for sure. I have a feeling that fabricate cards will be overcosted

>>49183036
>>49182940
The issue is that 'liberate' isn't really a part of the inventive cycle. It's just raw destruction, represented by the gremlins. Red is the villainous color of Kaladesh that just breaks whatever technology that interacts with it.

>>49183079
Fabricate is mostly a limited mechanic, we might see a single overstated / overcostet early drop for constructed, that's about it.

>>49170345
>Vampire

Oh hi newfag. What are you 14? Maybe the last set was vamp faggots, but black's characteristic race is fucking ZOMBIES. No argument.

>>49178035
Could the wooden frame on vehicles be for when Wizards makes the inevitable pirate set?, If we ever have a set like that odds are Crew comes back for pirate ships.

Also let me remind you that the first Pirate in 17 years has just been printed. The day could be way closer than we think.

>>49172944
You mean the Jacetice League?

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>>49170130
>Soldiers
>Not a race
All these fucking babbys are making me feel old

>>49183204
We all know it gona be a dinosaur plane

>>49183341
It's only a race if it has a lord.

Automaton doesn't count

>>49183346
...

We can both have a Pirate AND a Dinosaur plane. Hell, we could have a Pirate Dinosaur plane.

I don't really see why people have such a huge boner for vehicles.
The idea is great (VEHICLES!), but the execution is so fucking boring. And not just that, it's also flavorless, with creatures being able to crew multiple vehicles, the vehicle only lasting for one turn and the link between the vehicle and its crew being paper-thin.
Both the vehicle-as-equipment and championing-veichle are quite more interesting.

>>49170065
Vehicles are silly and I love it! When people complain that Magic doesn't do whimsical anymore, we can just point them to Kaladesh.
I really hope vehicles are here to stay, just because !Helios deserves a chariot when we return to Theros.
>Wild West when?
>heist on a magi-lev train to steal the governors phylactery

Aether should be written with a ligature!

>>49183450
Agree on the boring execution, also lack of giant robot vehicles so far.

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>>49183149
>Maybe the last set was vamp faggots
Erm... Not entirely.
He must have just overlooked zombies because vampies are pretty evenly split between R/B and zombies are almost only ever blue on Innistrad and maybe Grixis.

>>49183149
Vampires are primary in red on Innistrad since zombies are the primary black race there. But it's true vampires and zombie are in competition for characteristic race. They like vampires because they better represent the morals and feeling of black. Selfishness, ambition, sadism, etc. as well as death. Zombies mostly just represent death and also tangentially a master-slave relationship which implies a position of power, even if its over them and not necessarily being the master themselves. Theros Returned also embodied a few more traits buy they're nonstandard zombies. But zombies are so ingrained and well loved that it's hard to replace them as 100% definitely not the main race, so they kind of share with vampires. Pretty sure there's been an article or two on the mother ship about this by Mark.

>>49170130
>I could totally see energy return as the Izzet mechanic the next time we visit Ravnica.

So long as Simic gets Investigate I'm happy

>>49177177
>a shark isn't blue because it lives in the sea; it's the greenest predator there is

100% of Sharks in Magic are blue

>>49173973
Current story makes it seem she's going rakdos. Plus the only other rb walkers are sarkhan the bad and the new daretti who is meh and super niche.

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>>49183353
Glad that's cleared up.

>>49185720
I think he means they need to have classic cards that were originally typed "X Lord," e.g., Lord of Atlantis was originally printed as a "Merfolk Lord," not just cards that are informally referred to as "lords" in recognition of the classic lord type.

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>>49183353
checks out for me

>>49185720
>human soldier
That's not a lord.

>>49186482
There's nothing in his post that implies that, and that's moving goalposts. Hell, he even mentions Adaptive Automaton as not being valid, so he clearly doesn't have your definition of lord in mind.

>>49186635
Neither is this guy. Not anymore.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=106642

>>49186635
Per Gatherer, neither is Lord of Atlantis.

>>49186662
>There's nothing in his post that implies that, and that's moving goalposts.
Well, if I was right, he wouldn't have moved them at all, but you're right on the Automaton thing. I can't seem to find any other Automatons that did have the original Lord typing so I have to admit that he wasn't thinking about the old lords originally.

>>49186482
If he meant that he would not explicitly specify that Automaton doesn't count because Automaton was never printed as Lord.

>>49172353
Mediocre

>>49175691
Now that's what I call pod racing!

Too much diversity shoved down our throats. We get it, WotC's gotta appease the SJWs to make more money, but fuck, give it a rest.

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So yea, Tezz is back.

>>49187093
It's just women in card art. And a new race of energy people. And whatever. I don't understand how it's disruptive, I guess.

>>49187093

Great contribution, you're really showing them.

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>>49187093
seriously, give it a fucking rest.
also i've never seen more lackluster mythics in my life

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Now I'm sad.

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I already know what I am playing. No matter how shitty it is.

TEZZERET!

>>49170065
Aetherborn may be my new favorite race really excited to see how they handle them.

>>49187187

Given the story he was revealed in, I think that he is part of the fair's entertainment.

I mean, there's no way that Tezz and Pia's dialogue isn't scripted in universe.

>>49187274

Because the card is so shitty compared to the Origins one?

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>>49187372
Do you even feel, anon?

>>49187362
Read the flavor text, he's the head Judge of the fair.

>>49187388
Some people are just uncaring.

>>49187362
It did come across as horribly, horribly canned but remember, this is MtG fiction.

>>49187408

... No reason that that position can't have some gloriously terrible acting involved in it.

>setting is just ravnica with esper flare

I like it.

>>49187274

Do cards normally use the word "create" for tokens? Always thought wotc used "put onto the battlefield"

>>49187650
its new errata, you are correct.

>>49187650
It's a wording change happening right now. "Create" leaves more space on cards than "put ... onto the battlefield."

The mythic green card is garbage. Its not even interesting, why?

>>49187187

Oh, it's Predator Stri-
>Sorcery

oh my god how can you fuck up green pump spells so hard.

>>49187811
>modular 8/8 for 5 with trample
>garbage

>>49187925
Its not mythic, just a fat butt. Feels rare. If it had hexproof or something else maybe.

>>49187925
Wolfir Silverheart does almost the same thing at the same cost and made little more than a small splash in Standard.

>>49187980

Still not seeing what makes it garbage.

>>49187989

Wolfir Silverheart needs another creature to work, otherwise it's just a 4/4 body, and doesn't have trample anyways. Just by playing the green mythic you get the 8/8.

>>49187811
seriously there have been some real duds for the mythics so far. that demon is a massacre wurm ripoff, this is just a giant burdle, and saheeli is so boring compared to dack fayden.

>>49187863
still going to wreck shop in draft every single time. 4/4 + trample is basically just 6 damage for 2 mana

>>49170281
>- energy seems really, really, really fucking lazy. I don't want to say they're out of ideas but it feels like they shipped it in with energy

At least it wasn't Megamorph.

>>49171571
More like Skyhunter Chub, amirite?

I'm off to jack it to Prequel porn now, thanks.

>this entire spoiler
The powerlevel is so fucking low. I guess I will just buy another box of Conspiracy 2.

>>49177293
Buddy, when was the last time you fought a baby? Let me tell you, they're pretty weak. I should know - I had to fight off my younger self last week. Little shit was trying to steal my birthday, but I showed him!

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>Colorful, vibrant, diverse world with wild contraptions and machinery and a steampunk-without-the-brown-and-smoke setting.

Reminder that Kaladesh is the closest thing we've seen to James Gurney Art / Dinotopia in Magic.

>>49188005
See
>>49188025

>>49188403
>diverse
triggered

>>49188336
>Catacylsm/Tragic Arrogance on a stick
>ETB Spectral Force
>Colorless counterspell for one mana
>4 mana draw a card or cascade
>Enemy Fastlands
>Four mana steal a card from your opponent's deck
>four mana, six energy cast a card from your top six (plus enablers)

Are you high?

>>49188473
I should clarify. Four mana, first spell each turn draw a card or cascade.

>>49188473
enemy fastlands are pretty cool. UR delver and RW aggro say hello

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How do you like the mythics so far? Pic related.

>>49188473

If every card isn't "counter target sorcery or instant spell, then destroy all creatures, then get a free blowjob" for one blue mana at instant speed, then a set is low power and sucks.

>>49188575
I really like the demon's activated ability, but I don't think it's extremely reliable outside self-sacrifice decks like the Gitfrog. I might run him and the Aetherworks Marvel in the Gonti deck I'm planning if there are other good energy-producers.

>>49188575
The gearhulks seem super pushed, i like em. Blackout demon seems cool, too bad there's no REALLY good reanimate targets in standard right now.

>>49188599
>1 blue

Fucking over costed garbage

>>49188617
Whoops thought I was in the EDH thread

>>49188679
>too bad there's no REALLY good reanimate targets in standard right now.
Really good reanimation target is another Demon

>>49187187
> Sorcery
For what fucking reason?

>>49187650
>Do cards normally use the word "create" for tokens?
They do now.

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>>49188575
That artwork is a clean 10/10. Fucking amazing.

>>49188679
>standard right now

Who gives a flying fuck about that trash format?

Also Emrakul

>>49188910

The whole point of playing Emrakul is casting it, you don't cast it if you reanimate it.

>>49188473
>Catacylsm/Tragic Arrogance on a stick
Cataclysm is a shit removal, and I'm not willing to pay an extra mana for something that I don't even know if I am going to keep.

>ETB Spectral Force
And Spectral Force is strong? Please.

>Colorless counterspell for one mana
Not bad, but that's it.

>4 mana draw a card or cascade
EDH fodder.

>Enemy Fastlands
These are good.

>Four mana steal a card from your opponent's deck
I don't think Gonti is half as good as people are making him out to be.

>four mana, six energy cast a card from your top six (plus enablers
Shit. It needs "I win" cards for standard, and there is none worth building around. And outside of standard there are faster ways to cheat out something.

Panharmonicon is probably the card that looks the best to me right now. And Depala on a lower level too, since she is a pretty decent lord if vehicles or dwarves ever becomes a thing.

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The 5 mana creature slot of my casual Modern deck is getting seriously crowded. Help me decide!

>>49171220
>talkin shit about the Leonin

Nigga, Lions are more associated with plains then we've ever been.

>>49189017
>there is none worth building around

Emrakul? Ulamog? On turn 4, with a two card combo?

>>49189103
get Goyfs, curve at 3

>>49189103

Gearhulk > Hydra > Mycoloth > Wolfir

Trample is huge, and Verdurous can give another creature the tokens, which is kind of like having Haste.

>>49188992
>waaahhhh my 13/13 flying, trample protection from instants I got for 3 mana and 4 energy isn't good enough

>>49187274
>>49187187
So here is a question. What interest does Bolas have on this shit hole?

>>49189326
I though Bolas had utterly disowned/kill Tezz?

>>49189326
Dominaria's probably been picked clean of overpowered artifacts by now so he's looking elsewhere.

>>49189366
Well he sent his prime slave whipping boy to impersonate/take the head judge position. Maybe Bolas is after the Planar gate device made by that one elf?

>>49189145
>2 card combo
And the cards you used to generate enough energy? It is at least a 3 card combo with puzzleknot.

Also, both Emrakul and Ulamog are not as good if you didn't cast them, without to mention that you are betting on one of them being the top six cards of your deck. And if you happen to have one of them in your opening hand or draw it, it is a dead card.

Without to mention how risky it is, Emrakul can only protect itself from instants, and Ulamog, the more resilient one depends entirely on indestructible. And your wincon can be countered by a 1mana card.

>>49189416

The only cards you need are Puzzleknot and Aetherworks. Turn 2 Puzzleknot, get 3 energy; turn 3 sac Puzzleknot for another 3 energy; turn 4 Aetherworks, use energy to look at top 6, and if you get Emrakul or Ulamog you're in business. In case you didn't notice, Aetherworks casts the card, you don't just put it on the field, so Emrakul and Ulamog get their effects.

It's not a perfect strategy, and yes like any other strategy you can draw into the cards you don't want to draw, but good luck to your opponent having an immediate solution to these major threats early game.

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>>49189326
none, Bolas has nothing to do with this block. It's the next one that's Bolas town.

>>49189386

This is exactly what I thought.

>>49170065
Using energy when the game already has mana is basically shit.

>>49189616
Using cards when the game already has mana is basically shit.

>>49188055
> that demon is a massacre wurm ripoff
it's not really like massacre wurm at all.
Massacre wurm is always generically pretty good, but doesn't really combo with anything.
Demon isn't as automatically good, but can turn into something extremely powerful if it's got the right support.

Massacre wurm doesn't do anything besides be decent sized ground creature after it etb.
The demon continues to provide more after it's etb trigger.

>>49189486
Oh we KNOW the next one is Bolas's own personal fetish realm we get that. BUT, he sent Tezz to this shithole and had him impersonate someone important. Someone VERY important that looks over numerous inventions like for instance the Planar Portal device invented just a story ago. So yeah... i cant see this having any good repercussions for the multiverse especially when he misplaces it on New Phyrexia for no fucking reason other than "LOLRANDUMB!!!!!!!!" because Bolas is Saturday morning cartoon villain tier nowadays.

>>49170065
Show me more aetherborns god damnit

>>49170581
you shut your dirty whore mouth faggot, kill yourself

We already have confirmation that Amonkhet has five gods so I'm wondering how Nicol Bolas will fit into this picture. Will they be like the Theros gods? Will Bolas be considered one of the five gods of the plane? Has a overthrown the gods? Does he scheme and pull the strings under their nose?

>>49189616
there's a pretty distinct difference between how mana and energy function

Energy doesn't drain as phases end and it can't be used to cast spells only activate abilities. A better comparison would have been to charge counters but even then it wouldn't have been a very strong one.

>>49189664
>to this shithole

Kaladesh is vibrant and beautiful. Innistrad is a shitshole.

>>49177293
So... a baby?

>>49189636
Massacre Wurm still has the death drain while on the battlefield. Yes, it's not as good as possible reanimation, but it can in theory win without any other support. Unless they bring out a stupidly good Energy conduit, or some really bomby reanimation targets, I don't think the demon will see much play.

>>49189703
>Poo in the Loo is beautiful.

Uhhh lol no.

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>>49189690

Maybe the "gods" are actually just the elder dragons who used the plane to fuck around during their downtime.

>>49189742

Have you looked at any of the art, or do you just feel like shitposting? Please let me know so I can ignore your stupidity in case of the latter.

>>49189753
Bolas murdered all of the other elder dragons, ate them and them got a PW spark from it cuz reasons remember? So no his kin are NOT magically alive again.

>>49189474
>early game
>Turn 4/5
We are already at midgame people can cast any solution at this point, and they still didn't cast any of them, because you didn't play anything, also you just use the same removals you already use, like Declaration in Stone.

This deck is not gonna work. And now that you mentioned that they are actually cast, it is even worse considering that Blue can counter them for U.

>>49189739
so two different places.
Limited, you'll pick up different energy support, we've seen a few decent ones already, and all deaths grant energy with the demon, not just the ones he causes.
He'll be a continuous source of card and play advantage. He's not going to win the game right away as often as the wurm, but he's much better at setting you up to win in the future if a Infest wouldn't swing the game as hard.

In constructed, we've seen some signs, but yes the demon depends on what else is available.
My point wasn't so much that the demon is better, it's that he's a very different card.
Wurm is as good as it first reads on the card, but it doesn't get better. The demon needs support, but can benefit more from support.
Whether it gets it or not is a different question.

>>49178785
>A dwarf doesn't have to look like Gimli to be a dwarf.
>Posts a dwarf that was conceptually hated and largely forgotten.

Pretty sure it does.

I'm just wondering why they always make artifact sets powerful as fuck, but can't be assed to do anything cool with enchantments in the enchantments set

>>49189937
its the R&D team, they have weird carousel style of development, they just give the whole thing to 1 guy who has a team.

who decides on that guy? well they just rotate!

so Theros? it was the shit guy, doesn't even matter who he was, he was shit, and the entire block was shit because of it.

>>49189960
>most impactful and powerful effects in the entire block were devotion and Heroic, two keywords that have nothing to do with enchantments.

Heroic only shined due to all the protection effects in the format, devotion shined because of a design escapee, Gray Merchant, a card R&D had no idea was playable

and the only money card in the entire block now is Thought-seize.

Rank these blocks from best to worst:

Innistrad block
Return to Ravnica block
Theros block
Khans of Tarkir block
Battle for Zendikar block
Shadows over Innistrad block

>>49188888
Tree: "I AM GOING ON A WALK AGAIN. HELLO HUMANS."

>>49189937
Urza's block was an enchantment block.
Scars was decently powerful, but it wasn't like the power (outside of standard) came from it's artifact cards.

Theros was just a bad set, that's all. It wasn't a sign that WotC was reducing the power for all sets to come (yes people said this), it wasn't a sign that WotC would never create powerful mechanics again (people said this), and doesn't mean that 'enchantment sets' will always be weak.

>>49189017
>Cataclysm is a shit removal, and I'm not willing to pay an extra mana for something that I don't even know if I am going to keep.
Tragic Arrogance on a CREATURE ARTIFACT is fucking amazing.

Holy shit.

>Panharmonicon is probably the card that looks the best to me right now. And Depala on a lower level too
And you dare going "EDH fodder" on another card that gives mad CA?

Holy crap, son, you went full fucking retard.

>>49190020
BFZ is so bad the creator is ashamed of it, while its still on the shelves and standard playable.

Theros is very closely behind, and, again admitted by the designers that it was so horrifically a failure they don't even know what happened.

>>49190020
Innistrad
Khans
RtR, BfZ, SoI are much more arguable, but I'd put it SoI > RtR >BfZ
massive gap
still going
still going
Theros.

>>49190020
Best in what way?
Flavor?
Money cards?
Limited environment?
Constructed cards?

>>49189766
Do you really have to ask?

>>49190093
BFZ is actually more a failure than Theros, from the design teams view.

it didn't do anything at all, none of the mechanics mattered for standard, and the strongest cards from the entire block that lasted were Kalitas and Reflector mage.

>>49190020
Innistrad block
Return to Ravnica block
Shadows over Innistrad block
Theros block
Khans of Tarkir block
Battle for Zendikar block

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>>49190052
>Urza's block was an enchantment block.
Still making me laugh after all these years.

>>49190052
Urza's block was a Blue and Artifacts block.

>>49190020
ISD
RTR
SOI
KTK
some mediocre sets
THS
dirt
worms in the dirt
shit
BFZ

>>49190142
>>49190200
just saying what the design team intended it to be.
Not how it came out.

>>49190132
>Ally's, Rally, and the 2nd Ally mechanic that I can't even remember the name of.

jesus so much wasted space on a mechanic that never got any payoff.

>>49190295
Theros was an enchantment block.

Oh wait.

>>49190132
Thought Knot, Reality Smasher, etc are having effects in modern even when they trimmed down the two mana cards.
Kalitas is at least seeing play and having an effect, and reflector mage is interesting. Chandra is also still showing up in standard, and is a pretty good card.

Theros gave us Nyxthos. The other devotion cards faded super quick.
And Tribute and Inspire are bad enough mechanics that the entire block gets another knock down.

>>49189814

There being solutions to cards has never been an actual argument, nor will it ever be. Yes, a new Annul exists in the format, and will likely have as little an impact as Annul did even if a set full of artifacts. Declaration in Stone is coming too late when the opponent controls your next turn or exiles the lands you need to cast it.

But what can I expect from someone who apparently didn't read the card enough to know it casted.

>>49190372
>Thought Knot, Reality Smasher, etc are having effects in modern even when they trimmed down the two mana cards.

That's such a bullshit reason though, the only reason these cards see play outside of vintage is because of lands that were printed during a powerful era in Magic's history (ZEN/SOI/INN). Without them, Eldrazi would not even be a force in Legacy or Vintage.

If I had a green land that said "add GG to your mana pool. Only use this to cast green creature spells and activate abilities of green creatures" you can bet that there'd be some ridiculous stuff going on.

>>49190372
Thought Knot Seer is not an Eldrazi. It's Vendillion Sculler.. that happens to be an Eldrazi. Extreme design fail.

Reality Smasher is a green (maybe red/green) beast that has a discard tax. Not Eldrazi; mega design fail.

>>49189937
I'm convinced bestow would have been a nice ability if the costs on them weren't fucking ridiculous.

>>49190427
they're still seeing play despite being down to just one of those cards.
Thought Knot on turn 3 off of just a ramp card is still really good.

They are seeing play, they are powerful.
Even without the Eldrazi, you have Kalitas, Reflector Mage, Chandra, Gideon.

BfZ was a bad set, but Theros was worse.

>>49190543
You wanna give your dude +3/+3 and draw a card when it hits a player that later becomes a 3/3 that draws a card when it deals damage? SIX MANA. I understand that Bestow can be strong because you get the creature after the enchanted creature dies, but the prices are STEEP. 5 mana seems okay for Thassa's Emissary.

>>49190390
Wanna bet? Screencap this, Emrakul/Ulamog Aetherworks is NOT going to be a thing. the usual answers to any deck works on this one, except that it hits them much harder, since each removal is a 3-for-1 at least, and there are many better ones like pseudo-Annul if they ever start to become a threat.

>>49190608
from a business standpoint, BfZ is a complete and utter failure, it's story got fucked up due to switching release schedule's halfway through its development, it sold poorly, had bad press/hype, and you can clearly tell design didn't have their heart in it

Theros is a piece of fucking shit, but isn't as bad as BfZ. Theros tried some new stuff like enchantment creatures and the Gods we're very much a hit with everyone. The set was dragged down by very lackluster mechanics (heroic is a garbage winmore mechanic, bestow was played so safe it's essentially unplayable, Tribute would be the most garbage modern keyword if they didn't immediately trump it with Megamorph, Constellation was put on lackluster cards and in the last set so it had no impact, Devotion at least worked but got fucked up by pulling double duty as an enabler for Gods and being overvalued to uselessness on everything else), it had garbage limited, but the story 'worked', and it sold well.

I think they're both garbage sets but at least Theros is just a failed experiment as oppose to irrecoverable shit like BfZ

Who's willing to wager that we'll be seeing energy symbols in card costs by the time Aether Revolt rolls around?

>>49191014
considering how every card spoiled so far that requires energy is also able to produce it seems doubtful. hybrid color/energy might be a possibility though

>>49191014
I hope not. This energy shit needs to die, we don't need another resource to look after.

>>49170834
Is that fucking white nighthawk?

that's a terrible name and art for a card that will see such wide play

>>49191162
>and art
What's wrong with the art?

>>49190864
Heroic was very viable, infact, one of the most viable aggro standard mechanics ever.

it won MULTIPLE grand prix's and Invitationals.

it was an aggro deck that could effortlessly protect its creatures, draw cards, and gain 10 life for 2 to 1 mana (due to hero of Iroas's ability) all in the mainboard.

cards like Dromoka's Command put it at tier 1 easy.

>>49191463
IIRC WU Heroic was more like tier 2, and I don't recall it being played by the time DTK came out