/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

>>49084415
I use MEGA

I feel like we were having decent conversations before the move, where did everybody go?

>>49085115
Work, mostly.

Hey, I've been reading through the books to try and create a character concept and I can't find any information on if an infolife is restricted to cyberbrained morphs. Could an infolife character sleeve into a biomorph?

Gonna repost my question from the previous thread:

During the fall, how many people left earth in their original bodies, and how many left as infomorphs?

I understand that the vast majority of the population are refugees from Earth, but that doesn't mean they're all infugees, or does it?

>>49085201
Sure they can.

>>49085205
I don't think anyone can give you the exact ratio, but by the book the majority were infugees. It remains vague and quite inconsistent on that, so you can skew it in any direction you prefer.

>>49085293
Sweet. Thanks.

>>49085293
>but by the book the majority were infugees

My impression was that the majority of infugees were people who tried to leave Earth at the last possible moment, when shit got extremely hot, while most physical refugees left in ships and orbital elevators during the earlier months of the Fall.

>>49085386
Okay, I actually checked. The core book gives the number of infugees at 400 million.

>>49085692

Damng, that's like 4/5ths of the entire population. What page is that?

>>49085757
Page 65. Sometimes I think the devs didn't really care that much about numbers, or didn't consider the implications.

On the flip side, isn't the idea of 80% of the species having edited memories a sweet, sweet plot hook?

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Proxy >>49081830
>Once again you intend to use your own assets and mine to run operations against accelerated meditation
>it is your sterling reputation and your ongoing work on the Rortian problem that have seen you extended considerable leeway, in my opinion
>I can make no denial of the validity of your original evaluation and actions against the Ultimate splinter sect discovered in hermitage in the belt
>as you reported, information acquired from their minder forks and aspirants thoroughly demonstrated the potential for recursive self modification in the already heavily altered egos of the "Sweat of Kali" group
>your subsequent covert removal of the -- solitary or small targets you indicate to be of a similar kind was within your prerogative too
>however, it has since come to my knowledge that you have been preparing strikes on at least -- additional binker targets in the trojans, and --- more in the belt

>>49085836

That's weird. Like, right on page 91 it says that during the fall, the population on earth's orbit alone was more than a billion.

I mean, it's totally possible that they were mostly wiped during the fall itself, but it's weird.

>>49085836
>>49086038

The Devs have actually altered population numbers (larger, I think) in eratta before, so it wouldn't be crazy if some numbers were unintentionally or unrealistically low-balled.

Also, context is important, there's a decent chunk of "infugees" who are in Dead Storage to, and don't count as population anywhere.

It's intensely weird to me that there are less than 1 billion people in the setting, given that in 10 years a fair number of infugees can be reinstated and the population was likely over 10 billion.

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>>49086030
>a significant number of these targets have been confirmed to be isolated but not at all exhuman buddhist and protestant monastery servers
>several are not brinker stations at all, and carry minders in regular and public contact with the rest of the system
>I know all of this because you pulled in a bunch of my infowar eraser assets to supplement your own, and completely failed to prune their loyalties, or even effectively restrain them from commandeering mesh access
>I also know your brief to them included the explicit intention to destroy these accelerated monasteries (and one accelerated nunnery) before the monks within could emerge having achieved posthuman enlightenment
>I suppose this could be viewed through some warped sense an example of the ever debatable A-threat
>In all honesty, I just don't think you have a clear grasp of what buddhist enlightenment is, what meditation of this sort seeks to accomplish, or that you are aware of the already studied effects of long term, non-sensory meditation
>this is likely because you refuse the help of a muse, background most knowledge not related to micromanaging bug-hunting ops when you don't delete new memories outright, and want to vaporize any computer too big to fit into your braincase

>TLDR: I'm posting this whole debacle to the eye because I won't be dragged down with you, you think that meditating on one's place in the grand scale of the universe will produce exhumans, and we already have lamas here on luna that have meditated for about 800 relative years. They act almost exactly like all the other lamas, maybe slightly less ascetic.

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>>49086364
artificial wage inflation as a long term investment in the new economy

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>>49086364
There's simply not enough infrastructure to support 10 billion people yet. You could if you put your all into making huge server farms, but there's something fundamental that makes people want to be physically instantiated that makes a shitty case better than nothing.

And then there's this guy >>49086588
Pic related.

>>49084724
>needs decryption key

I like both Shadowrun and Eclipse Phase.

I like Shadowrun's setting a bit more, and I like Eclipse Phase's system much more.

Why can't we have an official Shadowrun release using a modified EP system ;_;

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>>49086805
kek. Almost got me.

>>49086861

I'm not baiting, I honestly like the flow of EP's system, and the way it handles ranged combat and hacking much better than SR, at least 5E (I haven't played the other editions).

>>49087177

I know, but I think it's WAY too non-lethal.

I don't know if the previous editions of SR were like this, but in 5E I had PCs who were just starting out rolling 20-30+ soak dice, which is pretty silly.

Absorbing a full shotgun blast to the chest into Stun Damage, if they took any damage at all, just felt wonky.

Reading the rules and fluff just gave me this idea of a much grittier game than what we actually played. I don't know, maybe I was inexperienced, and maybe the previous editions are closer to what I expected.

I still had tons of fun with the system, but it felt weird.

>>49086628
I was more saying I expected 1 billion to be alive by now.

>>49087266

Well, the thing is people haven't really been having any kids.

The more advanced a civilization, the lower its fertility rate.

When people are too worried about working to pay off their indentures, experimenting with new sociol-politcal systems, researching new technologies and just trying to find purpose in their immortal space life, they won't really be thinking about having kids.

>>49087477
...new morphs and servers?

>>49087530

What do you mean?

>>49087730

There's been a bit of demand on the Forums for a Slice of Life type Panopticon v 2 which apparently the devs have been bandying about before. More development on culture, media, consumer goods, just what people are doing with their life - that kind of stuff. Interestingly, the internal name they used for this is apparently "where do babies come from?" so it could even serve as a way to tighten up some vagueness in the setting. Maybe give some more page space to cities/regions which didn't get as tight a focus as some area (Like major Lunar cities getting way less coverage in Sunward than the Martian ones... despite some of them being more populous and diverse).

My personal hope is also we get some tighter vehicle rules/options and some focused ideas on vehicle customization - but that might be in Space Combat.

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>>49086628
I was explicitly referring to indenture being compensated. It was something along the lines of the PC and MC benefitting in the long run from taking few enough indentures to provide offer even semi-okay contracts and compensation and putting most of their resources into developing the aforementioned infrastructure. The people alive AF are likely to see mars terraformed and the untold billions revived, and at that time mars could quickly switch from a sparsely populated planet that had to suck dick to get a body to a planet of people just now given a body, a suburban home, and a stipend for their fork's work in the colonies, because shit is cheap with femtofab and mastered gates. With patience the Hypercapitalists could turn most of the former population of the world into a pet middle class that sincerely loves them, and everyone they've ever fucked with into a marginal minority.

>>49087878
>the untold billions revived

What untold billions? There's like 50 million infomorphs not accounted for in the setting, but that's about it, unless you're referring to the people who died during the Fall, but those have probably been force-uploaded by TITAN drones already.

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>>49087878Meanwhile Titan does the opposite, and with luck they will have instantiated all of the consortium's scraps and built crowed, janteloveny, space northern europe around saturn, possibly excelling technologically, but always having to deal with the adamantly flighty autonomists and assorted lunatics in the untamable space siberia that is the outer rim, with the ultimates playing mongol and Jove being their space southern europe. They will have to bargain with either Battachya the Great or Batman bin Superman for access to gates, the space Pope or the space Medicis for access to the inner system, and both sets will control their flow of resources. Jove has no gates, no infugees, and no fucking chance. By the time they could built a fleet that could conquer the system, or anything outside their gravity well, the rest of the system will be using gate technology like we use sliding doors, and they are fundamentally opposed to getting good enough for true long term development of their planet, or living long enough to even be germane to system politics. If anything, their morale will fail before the siege ends, because all of the the fall survivors' grandchildren will be dead and gone in a relatively short time compared to the rest of the system, which can hold the line just by carrying on as they already intended to. Or maybe TAHI will steal some femtotech, turn jupiter into a ringworld and all the happy jovians will laugh at all the stressed out transhumans from their country sized family holdings on the arbor loop while mile long dreadnaughts patrol the gravity well. just my thoughts on the system's trajectory I suppose.

>>49088014
>untold billions
>50 million infomorphs
with the right psychosurgeons we can split the difference

>>49088660

Well, that, and the Titanians have way better military readiness.

>>49088466
Lets say WW1 and 2 happen simultaneously in 1919, immediately followed by the stock market crash, great depression, with TB thrown in to kill off rich people. Then oligarchs of 1930s america worked together to build every public project through to now on credit they granted themselves. Would it make sense for them, having built all the new deal dams and power grids and subsidized crops, all those marshal plan suburbs and highways and subsidized crops, all the rockets and computers and harbors and phone lines, with the express purpose or resuming civilized society, but instead decided that they would feel wealthier by comparison if they kept the population back at the standard of living they started with, and used all their discoveries to automate the whole of america to produce things they don't want and the population can't afford.

>>49088034
Is that a bunch of habitats attached to a space elevator with gravity provided by the gas giant below them? Am I interpreting that image correctly?

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>>49088466
because capitalism isn't S&M, its business. Hyperelites might want to keep things as squalid as they can to feel richer, but the actual oligarchs understand that they are selling a system of government as their product. The only thing that keeps them on top of the commies is offering something that can pass as a higher standard of living, and if they can't their customers will turn on them.
They must remain competitive, and they are already having to fight the current of technological advancement, so making the jump to the new economy with an infinite rep score for having rebuilt civilization and given it to transhumanity. The perks of being the God Aristocracy of Mankind should really be sufficient.

>>49089425
that's a bunch of some femtotech bullshit attached to some more femtotech bullshit, yes.

>>49089550
>People are not property.
You just keep telling yourself that, cute little rodent, and run the race like you're supposed to. There's cheese at the end!

>>49089467
I was unaware space elevators were femtotech.

>>49089884

>Print more morphs

I mean, it's been awhile since we got new morphs, and unless there's some real driving reason to produce more I suspect we won't get a few for a time - there's always the Morph Creation rules to fill in gaps you have.

>planet guides.

Well, personally I hope this would be kind of like that. It would be an excuse to go back to places like Venus or Luna who didn't get as much focus in say, Sunward compared to how much was spent talking about the nitty-gritty of neighborhoods and subcultures and industry and stuff in like, Martian or Titanian cities. They can't like, continually print refined books on specific planetary bodies, that probably reaches a point of too much details or just, not enough to work with. Like, between on Neptune and Uranus there are like what, three major permanent habs, one of which is a vague and mysterious secret for GMs to play with? That kind of thing would barely fit a PDF/PoD, let alone a full book on its own.

>>49090059

I mean, Panopticon is explicitly a Vol 1, and it was Habitats, Uplifts and Surveillance, not necessarily directly related concepts. Actual detail of what life is like in the setting besides just snippets for funsies could be useful and interesting.

>Look at Rifts

Yeah, because Rifts is a sterling example of what RPGs should be like.

>>49090573

Don't pull the "just have fun" card.

Rifts is a jumbled mess as a setting, even if it has many cool ideas, and is objectively bad from a game design perspective.

Trying to make sense of the Rifts core rulebook was one of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had with this hobby.

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>>49089610
what is the product of a transhuman's labor?

>>49087115
But how do you like SR's setting? It's pants on head retarded. We've had this conversation a bunch of times here.

>>49087530
How many new morphs do you need? You can make anything you want with the rules from Transhuman. The only thing that might be nice is more implants. Morphs for specific localities are acceptable, as long as the fluff doesn't suck. That reminds me. I should stat up robo-Huldra so they don't both need TITANtech and defy common sense.

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>>49088636
>the Junta
Where the hell do you think you are? Go back to the forums with that shit.

>>49092067
Dank memes.

>>49094206
What do u mean? He is just honest.

>>49094714
Shhh, don't upset the cancer enthusiast.

>>49094241
Is there any example of dank memes in the setting? And better yet, would the legacy of Harambe continue over 100 years later?

>>49095267

Basilisk hacks.

>>49086805
I feel precisely the opposite. I like EP's setting much more, but the system is kind of trash. I much prefer Shadowrun, or GURPS.

>>49095792
There's a GURPS version of EP

Alright /epg/, how do we fix Jovians?

>>49096067
Waifus.

>>49096067
Neutering them, presumably, like you fix anyone else?

>>49095267

Posthumanism.

I've had a hypothesis on the backburner for a while concerning the purpose of the Exsurgent virus. I think that it's the ETI's way of forcibly uplifting civilizations either directly (by infection, psy, etc.) or indirectly (by fending off infection, developing countermeasures, etc.) in a way that isn't just piggybacking on an ASI.

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>>49095267

>>49096067
Jovians are fine. Just make them slightly less draconian if you really feel the need.

>>49096518
I have a theory I'm planning to use in my current game. The Factors ARE the ETI.

They created the Exsurgent Virus as a means of assimilating other species into their "family" for lack of a better term. But the AI went rogue and refused to co-operate. The Bracewell Probes were designed to assimilate species when they were considerd advanced enough (The invention of the TITA Network for transhumanity).

This explains why factors are found on planets the TITANS were found (doing research on them), why they warn us away from the Pandora Gates (It's TITAN tech) and why they have a fear of AIs.

Another theory I have is that the ETI did this as part of a reality show on a much grander scail.

>>49094184
>But how do you like SR's setting? It's pants on head retarded. We've had this conversation a bunch of times here.

Holy shit, man, that's a cool fucking OPINION you have there, bruh!

>>49097825
>>>/r/Cyberpunk

What sort of expertise could an AGI actor bring to a team of Firewall sentinels?

>>49096067
>Step 1: read all the books. If cancer enthusiast skip to step 3
>Step 2: be content that they have flaws like every other faction. Stop
>Step 3: Get butthurt that the conservatives aren't also flawless, perfect and actively fighting everyone else
>Step 4: Quit and play 40k

>>49098247

Loaded with the right apps, a Humanities Infolife built for media savvy would be a terrifying face and social engineer.

Armed with an Impersonate upgrade, and a package of Tracking, Spoofing and Sniffing software, this could turn even the most socially inept infomorph into a master actor - if you're already a master actor (with high skills in Impersonate, Deception, etc and Art: skills to Complement) you'll be a wizard who can impersonate anyone you like online. Combine with behavioral psych and kinesics softs to deeply analyze targets - never be surprised when pretending to be someone.

In a world of mesh communication, a properly equipped actor could basically be anyone, and with the right tools they can follow through on such things by accessing computers like a legit user who belongs there.

BTW, while we're yakking (but not really) about additions to the game, now that Software plug-ins and Eidolons are a thing, devs could stand to throw a few more of those in - play with some things being digital.

I wonder if we'll see a lot of new gear in the Criminal hardback?

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>>49098573
I wanna see folding gear like in SR. A Monofilament Sword like Corvo's.

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>>49098534

>this could turn even the most socially inept infomorph into a master actor

Could this turn even the most socially inept player into master actor character, that's the question.

>>49098848

Collapsing weapons, stealth weapons, those would be neat. New toxins/poisons/drugs.

Panopticon already covered a lot of stealth/disguise implants, but some new weapon implants, or other dirty tricks for crime and "illicit" implants would be interesting. And just softs and gadgets that people use to do crime.

Which really is what I want out of the Sourcebook, I hope they spend time discussing extant criminal groups and describing how they actually go about some of their operations and what kind of operations they do - and how they pull them off this stuff in the future with all kinds of online shit and sensors and whatever.

Like, how do you steal a fabber that "falls off" the back of a martian truck if say, the truck is loaded with spimes and sensors to track inventory, the fabber can be meshed or armed with a simple ecto that has an RFID range of kilometers or covered in taggant nanos. I could, like, in a game assemble a plan to do this, but what sort of methods does organized crime do to persistently do this? How do cops try and stop them?

Maybe it's just an academic interest thing, since I'm a CJ major

>>49098848
>monofilament
A sword made out of fishing wire isn't going to do much, whether or not it can fold.

>>49099084
>drugs
I want them to consider real drugs that would completely change some of the shit in the game. For example, versed and ketamine.

>>49099459

Yes, yes, we understand the dictionary definition of monofilament, but the book calls it a monofilament sword so that's what we call it so we all know what we're talking about.

>>49099662
I'm sure that everyone would still know what you're talking about if we just called it a monomolecular edged sword. That or just mono sword for short.

>>49099707
>monomolecular edged sword

Wouldn't those get dull really fast, though? You'd need a holster for a bunch of replacement blades, wouldn't you?

>>49099596

How would you say those sorts of things completely change things in the game?

>>49099756
If the cutting part is just a filament, you could keep a reel of it inside the handle.

>>49099817
Versed is a rapid acting anxiolytic. As long as combat effectiveness is not a big issue at the time, you could avoid a whole lot of stress damage by administering the stuff. Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic. If you give it along with Versed before reinstantiating someone, it would greatly help with integration and alienation or at the very least greatly reduce the initial stress.

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>>49100084
>tfw you're swinging around your giant Scandinavian wire cheese slicer

>>49085205
There are no more than 80m people in the system with their original bodies. 60m of those are split between the Jovian Republic and Luna.

>>49099756
I recall reading something about a hypothetical design of knife based on... I think the structure of shellfish enamel? Anyway, as it dulled there would be micro-flaking from the sides of the blade keeping the edge sharp. A monomolecular blade on the same principle would remain sharp but would gradually wear away into nothingness as it was used.
Or a giant boxcutter. Or >>49100468

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>>49100468

>"Listen Bjorn, sometimes you must settle things like man. In traditional Titanian Way. Monowire swords at day cycle. If ancestors smile, you will slice them like the caribou cheese."

>>49101273

Canonically, I think Mono swords are described as made with near-molecular edges and the latest in self-sharpening materials.

How capable are the big Main Belt habitats like Extropia when it comes to identifying and purging the exsurgent virus from their mesh?

For instance if an exsurgent gestalt mind with high infosec skill was uploaded to the general Extropian mesh how quickly could they contain it?

>>49101273
I think this will not interest anyone, but I once made a mono-atomic needle.

During an 'experience this study' weekend at the physics department of university, we did some stuff with a Scanning Tunneling Microscope. For that, we needed a needle with a tip of one atom. To do that, we cut a piece of iron wire at an angle. That way, there would always be one single atom that protruded the most.

I thought that was pretty neat. And afterwards I always felt a little less stupid when I poked myself with iron wire and it hurt.

>>49101338
Except they're called "monofilament swords" because the devs are morons.

>>49102129
It depends on the strain, but for the worst case scenario, because the mesh is the Internet of Things, you'd have to wipe all memory storage of things that were connected to the mesh at the time of the infection and after. You'd then have to find and destroy anything that was created by fabbers, makers, or hives connected to the mesh. Then you'd have to wipe and/or destroy anything accessible by anything that was connected to the mesh. To be honest, it would be easiest to just nuke the place.

Does anyone ever have a reason to play a brinker? Wouldn't their want to be away from everybody interfere?

>>49105376
It could be less a want of being away from others and more of a desire to live in a certain way that isn't exactly compatible with most others.

>>49109204
Paint a frowny face on the damn thing.

>>49089938
What he means is that such a structure is not physically possible with any known (or even half seriously theorized) materials and probably requires femtotech bullshit. Nanotubes might build you a space elevator, but you won't be able to suspend continent sized structures off of them like that without some serious unobtanium.

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Has anyone here ever done a campaign where the PCs have to start as 21st century humans being thawed out of cryo with no mods or knowlage and a starting aptitude max of 15 at most?

Is there a GM guide to EP?

>>49111197
>aptitude max of 15
Flats have an aptitude max of 20.

>>49111291
Maybe he wants a party of downs syndrome cases, don't judge him you shitlord.

>>49111334
Don't underestimate retard strength.

I was thinking of running Continuity at my LGS' one-shots night, do you think we should roll for stress due to resleeving at the start of the adventure?

>>49109274

You're not suspending anything, the stations at the top are in orbit.

I'm aware that a lot of the big questions in the setting go unanswered so that the GMs can make up their own, but I'm still frustrated about the lack of answers. Please tell me something so horrific that I'm reduced to a gibbering wreck, so that I won't be so desperate for answers.

>>49113532
Then where's the gravity coming from?

>>49113828
One of the most effective forms of high level computation would be Dyson spheres linked by Hayward wormholes to overcome thought speed problems. Thus the ETI is the gate network itself.

>>49114308
That's pretty good, but where are the Dyson spheres? Are you implying they're inside the gates?

>>49111291
True, but 20 is "enhanced" that doesn't seem like something a human can accomplish naturally.

>>49115458
To put it into perspective, Stephen Hawking would have Exceptional Aptitude (COG) and a natural aptitude of 30 COG or more.

>>49115496
That doesn't sound right.

>>49114401
Scattered throughout the Milky Way. The Hayward wormholes allow them to be in instant communication so a continuous intelligence could function without having to take centuries to complete a thought.

In this way the gates function as synapses for the ETI.

I want to play a quadruped Critter morph with both the large size, and lack of manipulators trait. Basically some sort of space cervid/equid. Am I asking too much from my GM?

>>49116837

Well, that would depend on your GM, but I mean, if you are okay with being a giant space deer with no hands, possible random or harmful effect from drugs, a probably hefty social stigma and the fact that environmental conditions which favor this are very limited - that's on you bro.

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>>49117865
Even in the future, there are still furries...

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>>49117865

>>49117865

So what would be the limits of a critter morph? Could I make an Infinity style werewolf with one?

>>49118276
Never played infinity, anything noteworthy about the wolves?

>>49118276

I mean, critter is really a broad class, you can warp the chosen genomes for appearance any way you like, but without additional mods you're limited to abilities it gives you.

>>49118437
Not to mention that morphs are fleeting and skills are forever.

>>49118424

in infinity you have a group of people who can essentially turn into fuck huge werewolves and have a controller with them. Think of WoD werewolves in Crinos form.

And all this? For no other reason then I think it looks cool to see them with tacticool shit.

>>49117865
The edges around those things make me want to kill myself.

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>>49118189

>>49118725
Yeah, would it kill someone wo crop the fucking picture?