/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>49079232
Man, John Constantine in WoD would be pretty damn awesome, now that I think about it.

>>49079232
The Witchblade universe? While it's not about vampires and werewolves, I feel that it nails the whole "Supernatural shit hides everywhere" pretty well.

I guess I'm obligated to say the Dresden Files comics.

>>49079232
Locke & Key is a game of Innocents if there's ever been one.

>>49079443
Shit ending

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>>49079232
Preacher.

>>49079522
I agree. Stick to your style and kill a main char for duck's sake

>>49079569
That Frank face, dang.

>>49079824
World of Frankness

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Any group out there, probably roll20, that would be up for bringing in a Beast? I'm starting to make one and I'm interested in trying my hand at this.

>>49079970
Having not read much of Beast, why would someone invite a Beast to a game? Like, I know they vaguely 'help other creeps do their thing', except Demons. But I wanna know specifics.

>>49080229
Played well they can be a nice foil to almost any splat and generate a lot of interesting questions for the players.

Most likely because someone wants to play an OP dragon-kin in a Vampire game

>>49080229
My understanding of Beasts is that they have the opportunity of teaching through fear. They can act like advanced scouts because they inherently root out otherworldly shit and can create a space to trap the big bads and invite people into their lairs. Essentially they can be the trapper of the group, if I'm really understanding this.

Upsetting people on roll20 by pointing out things lifted from Tsukihime.

>>49080300
>by being a grognard
ftfy

>>49080300

That's that anime about the bug men, right

>>49080366
No, Tsukihime is Twilight for boys.

>>49080543
So all the chastity lessons and cheesecake rather than beefcake but more action scenes rather than pining?

Do you prefer vampires being magically preserved corpses like in VtR or being blood-filled stretch-armstrongs like in VtM 3e

>>49080677
Magically preserved corpses. Which are also full of blood, because the vitae they take has to go somewhere, but no weird magical biology shit. They just are corpses preserved forever at the moment of their embrace.

>>49080677
Magically animated corpse. They have organs, but they're atrophied and shit. Not just human shaped water balloons full of blood

>>49080753
Given how the embrace works the organs shouldn't be any more atrophied than they were at the moment of death. They're just dead and useless. Until you kill a vampire and they decay to where they should be in a matter of moments, of course.

>>49080677
Requiem vampires because magical preserved corpses make more sense to me than organs transforming into blood bags.

>>49080677
Magically perserved corpses because VtM is shit just like everything oWoD

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>>49080677
Whatever Buffy vamps were

>>49081110
Kitties?

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>Mages
>no sense of right and wrong

From the thread:
>>Are Geists amalgamated ghosts, then, or just this specific example?
>Just that one example. Since Mage 2nd already kind of spoiled it, I guess I can share this tidbit:

>Geists are Rank 3+ ghosts. The only (well, almost only) way for a ghost to cross from Rank 2 to Rank 3 is to drink deep from one of the rivers of the Underworld. This does... strange things to the shade brave/desperate enough to try it--but it does mean they're Anchored to a concept of death, which makes it much harder for them to get blasted back to the Underworld once they escape.

He seems to think we're going to get real previews around November/December, so that's good.

>>49080229
>>49080282
>>49080283
>why would someone invite a Beast to a game?
Probably the one splat that won't fuck with the theme by bringing in their own theme.

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Would a member of the Promethean Brotherhood have a Nimbus?

>>49081784
No.

>>49081694
>wouldnt mess up the theme
But that is vague, what do you mean by that? Because I could take that as their theme being flexible, their theme being nonexistent, or whatever.

So... What other arcana do you think a prime mage should have to activate Promethean artifacts?

Life? Death? Can't just be more prime.

>>49081801
Why not?

>>49081819
Not that anon, but from my understanding Beast is just really flexible. They're both pariahs and allies of CofD

>>49081819
>>49081875
It's basically nonexistent is the thing. "You're a horror monster that spooks things!" is all it is, really, and with crossover the theme is mostly "you create families", because you no longer need to spook things, since you have the power to voyeuristically feed your Horror instead of needing to feed your Hunger.

>>49081848
Prime. Or none.

>>49081871
They aren't Mages. If they did have a Nimbus, it would be that of the dead mage.

>>49081784
Who are they again?

>>49081819

Their only real theme is "No Small Boxes", which means that you can't fit everything into neat little categories. That can lock into pretty much any CofD game.

>>49081920
They sacrifice Mages, steal their Gnosis, which lets them cast spells

>>49081938
What? There are several small boxes.

>>49081915
I don't know if I agree with just prime.

Prime is the study of the supernal, and of magic.

Azoth and the principle aren't just pure supernal magic, so it doesn't work from that side. The powers of azoth are magic to be studied sure, but in that case prime wouldn't need any other arcana to study any magical effects.

So the main way to justify only prime is if Promethean magic just can't fit into any other box.

Five subtle arcana = soul (in theory, mages can't make/unmake soul)

So Pyros is just the five arcana plus the Principle's secret ingredient

>>49082076
Mages can CERTAINLY unmake a soul.
They just eat it.
Universal Sacrament for any of the 5 subtles, and used by Reapers, draining it of all its energies for personal use.

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Question from last thread: Is it a bad idea to fuck your fetch as a Changeling?

>>49081915
I imagine a Beast creating a family cause he's fucking tired. 10 days till retirement and I'm too lazy to chase down my own meals

>>49082202
Don't fetches tend to alert your original keeper when they are aware of you?

Or do they usually just try to kill you. I forget.

>>49082076
Mages can make and unmake souls and do whatever they want

>>49082255
Dave pls, your double dubs don't make make your fanfic real

>>49082251
Their response is coloured by who they are, but when a Changeling reappears in the mortal world, a Fetch instinctively knows this, and the fact that he's fake. A poorly made copy made of twigs, leaves and sack-cloth, a part of a contract to steal someone with actual worth. Someone who will not appreciate you having lived their life, despite your prior complete innocence to both that fact, and the nature of your existence.

Understandably, this can be highly traumatic, and drive them to drastic measures to affirm some sense of self, and protect the only life you've ever known.

>>49081938
>No small boxes
Except that there's no such theme in the game itself.
Beasts also destroy their theme of family by literaly allowing you to choose your family
They also claim that heroes are not necessarily wrong but then go on for 300 pages about how heroes are wrong
They also ruin their theme of hunger from the moment they dabble in the theme of crossover

>>49082251
Fetch is generally you without some personality traits that usually really doesn't want to be killed by this weird thing they had apparently been mimicing for their whole life. Some of them can develop echo to summon The Keeper.

>>49082413
Or could develop doki doki feelings that lead to romance.

>>49082379
>>49081978

I'm just going by what the book says, don't shoot the messenger here:

>No Neat Little Boxes

>The world of the Chronicles of Darkness is not a tidy place. Werewolves hunt spirits, but mages deal with them, too. Vampires make people disappear, but changelings find that abhorrent. Sin-Eaters help put the dead to rest, but many other characters deal with the unquiet dead in their own ways. Beast examines some of those swirling undercurrents in the Chronicles of Darkness.

>Characters — and players — might assume that they have a solid understanding of how the Chronicles of Darkness work and what the “rules” are. Beast is a reminder that no one—not the most connected vampire, not the wisest mage, not the oldest mummy — really has all the answers. Beasts delve into the secrets of the Chronicles of Darkness not because they necessarily wish to solve mysteries or gain power, but because this world is their home and they feel they have the right and, sometimes, the responsibility to know.

>This theme comes up in another way, though: Beasts are not “good guys.” They terrify people in order to feed their Horrors. Although their culture teaches that they do so in order to impart important lessons, their peculiar form of pedagogy is entirely optional. A Beast is capable of being a force for wisdom, even for “good” in the Chronicles of Darkness, but doing so is entirely up to the Beast.

>>49082202
Yet another smutfic I wrote once.

>>49082076
Naw, that's dumb. I don't see why life isn't a nice simple answer. There is no creep type covered by life, and that is what azoth creates, life where there was none. It does this more often than it creates a soul.

>>49082322
>>49082413
So...yes on the clone fucking?

>>49082476
Yeah, like I said: it's a fake theme. How the hell does Beast remind us that there's no such thing as a neat little box when they're clearly just another little box added along all the others?

>>49082523
Quite possibly.
I can't see any reason why social maneuvering wouldn't work on your Fetch.

>>49082524
It's there out of sheer arrogance.
"You think you know how things work. But really you know nothing. Buy our book, we're the true source for all Supernaturals"

>>49082524

Beasts break the rules by their very existence, which proves that there is a unified origin for almost all the monsters in the CofD, and that they are the purest form of all monstrosity. Just when you think you've got the whole world figured out, a Beast shows up to be more monstrous than you could ever be, using powers that are the true origin to your own. They shouldn't exist, and yet they do.

>>49082569
>It's there out of sheer arrogance.
Oh you mean like the whole fucking book?
Then again, OPP realized that they fucked up and are working on the Crossover Chronicle in order to deliver a true crossover book instead of a self-masturbatory splat of older-siblings having all the answers

>>49082616
How's that fun again?

>>49082616
Of course, the counterpoint is that Beasts draw power from the Astral, which by its nature connects to all concepts of mankind (which incorporates every splat bar Demon), which explains their "family".

They merely delude themselves into believing their own mythology says they're special. As being anything other than someone whose Soul was eaten by a Goetia, and now exist solely to satiate itself on the sanity of mortals.

Beast would be so much better if they acknowledged the game is about broken monsters who blindly flail around attempting to justify the horror of their existence, and the burden they place upon mankind.

>>49082379
How does it destroy the theme of family by allowing you to choose which Family-the-character-type you are? It means "family" in the colloquial social group type of way.
I also feel like you're misreading "Heroes are wrong lol".

You're right that they ruin the theme of Hunger. I mean, you still Hunger, but you now have a safe and fulfilling way of feeding it.

>>49082476
I feel like that's not the kind of "little boxes" thing that we assumed you meant. I also feel like Beast *highly* encouraging crossover sort of shoots that in the foot. Hunter and Mage and Promethean do a much better job of encouraging "there is weirdness out there!" while Beast says "use this book in combination with these other books!"

>>49082522
>No creep type covered by life
Uh... all of them except Vampires?
Also, the subtle arcana forming the soul is true. But Pyros is closest to Prime, yet inherently untouchable by it. In the crossover explanations in 1e, Pyros can be examined with Prime but not manipulated. There's no "create Pyros" spell intentionally. Also, Azoth doesn't create life, and Life wouldn't do anything for objects regardless.

>>49082616
>>49082569
>Beasts break the rules by their very existence, which proves that there is a unified origin for almost all the monsters in the CofD
Not really. It's pretty clear--and even explicitly stated--that Beasts are Goetia. Also, one of the problems I have with Beast is that it feels like it would fit better if it weren't the, what, 12th CofD game and maybe 30th overall WoD splat?
"Look, here's a wrench in your understanding of the setting!" works much better in, say, Demon or Mummy.
Nevermind that Beast doesn't expand anything; it even just uses something from Mage.

>>49082640

You're different, and you get to be different.

>>49082700

>I feel like that's not the kind of "little boxes" thing that we assumed you meant.

>Characters — and players — might assume that they have a solid understanding of how the Chronicles of Darkness work and what the “rules” are. Beast is a reminder that no one — not the most connected vampire, not the wisest mage, not the oldest mummy — really has all the answers.

When they talk about "the answers", they're talking about things like, "Oh well X from Y splat is probably just a Z from Q splat", stuff that CofD fans tend to do that can slip into games. Thus, "you can't fit everything into neat little categories".

>>49082694
No one is really stopping a player from doing that. That actually sounds really interesting.

There is a line in the book that states that the moment a pre-Beast is Devoured there is an instant of darkness and an infinite black space where the Beast feels warm. I imagine the character I want to play wants to achieve that at one point, going back to that safe space and is the primary reason he teaches, for someone to put him back in there.

And I think there's the story hook. Work with Hunters, Changelings, or whatever to get them to the point where they fear him and have to put him down.

>>49082803
But you can still do that in Beast.
In fact, it encourages it :V

Your powers are literally coming from copying X from Y splat!

>>49082694
>Of course, the counterpoint is that Beasts draw power from the Astral, which by its nature connects to all concepts of mankind
>They merely delude themselves into believing their own mythology says they're special.
I don't really think these are mutually exclusive.

>>49083018
It's the way in which they think they're special though that matters. Sure almost no other group has such an innate connection to the Astral.
But then again no other faction tries to claim a universal connection to every other Supernatural.

Best part of 2e was that Mages (the faction previously most likely to justify everything with regards to their cosmology) can very easily tell what's connected to the Supernal, and what's not.

>>49083082
>But then again no other faction tries to claim a universal connection to every other Supernatural.
So?
I honestly don't really see why everyone hates this so much. Vampires have literally claimed they're Gods.

>>49082700
When using prime to study the magic of a different creep, you use an appropriate arcana. Fate for fae, death for vampires, spirit for werewolves, mages supernal + whatever arcana, geist death, etc.

I don't think any current creep links to life arcana.

>>49083142
I think it's because Beast, as much as I love it, is lacking the depth the other splats have.

>>49083228
Why would it need to? Nothing is covered by Forces, either. Also, that's not even true. The book even uses Prometheans as an example in the Theory, Practice, and Crossover sidebar. It suggests that you could rule scrutinizing a Promethean (as in, the Promethean itself) with Life, among others. You also don't have anything scrutinized by Matter, or Space (though I'd argue Space could help pierce a Demon's Cover if you were strong enough).

>>49083336
My biggest problem with it.

>>49083408
Well then that answers my question. I'd never seen that side bar, which is why I was asking what arcana to use for prometheans.

It seems the book itself has said life.

>>49082459
Can you secude your that isn't quite you? Yes? Then you should absolutely have cute romance with your self that isn't you.

Dear /cofd/&/wodg/


I was wondering if anyone had a pic of one of those "Disclaimers" WW used to put near the front of their books? Preferably the one found in VtM, but any one will do.

Thanks in advance.

or not. You know. What have you

Okay, so I want to make a Changeling campaign with elements of monster mash, but try to do it by only using Changeling rules. How would one approach creating Lost that could be easily be mistaken for Kindred? Major of Bane of sunlight and Ban on entering houses uninvited?

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>>49083449
>It seems the book itself has said life.
Not quite so simple.

>>49084264
Meh. Seems like a simple answer dressed up with OP style 'but maybe not!' Woo.

>>49084332
I meant that you were looking for something for Azothic Objects and what would activate them. Life isn't the kind of thing that would fall under.

>>49084332
Tbh, I like it that way. Mythos is at its best when it can be adapted to the needs of troupe and Chronicle at hand...

>>49084576
>>49084332
It also provides several options and gives you the framework to fill in the parts they didn't use as an example.

>>49084576
Sometimes you need to force mages to find a way besides 'bs how your arcana works in this instance'. Not always, I know they enjoy arcana BSery. But not everything can be jiggered into every hole. If that works, the arcana lose all meaning.

>>49084518
Whatever would be able to examine the Promethean would be the same arcana that would power the magical objects they create. Prommie athanors and whatever are created by azoth and powered by pyros. Which means life likely works on both.

>>49084736
It shouldn't be bs:d by the player, it should be up to ST to tell what's bs and what actually works.

>>49084813
That is semantics. That is just ST approved BS

>>49084736
>Whatever would be able to examine the Promethean would be the same arcana that would power the magical objects they create.

That doesn't even old up for humans.

>>49084888
Humans would be the actual exception, since a human creating magical objects is abnormal.

Seriously, humans are the worst example to bring up.

>>49084736
>Whatever would be able to examine the Promethean would be the same arcana that would power the magical objects they create.
No it wouldn't. That's not what the thing says, either. It doesn't say that Life is what makes Pyros work.

It says:
>Death would detect Vampires, obviously
>Death might be able to examine a Promethean because they're made from corpses.
>Life might be able to examine Prometheans because they're alive.
>Prime might be able to examine Prometheans because they're alive due to the Divine Fire.
>Spirit would show a Werewolf not as a werewolf, but as being in flux between ephemera and material
It's specifically talking about observing the entity itself. I mean, Death is not the first thing that would come to my mind when thinking of how to examine a Vampire's powers; Mind is. But to examine someone and learn they're a walking corpse, that would take Death.

An Athanor, as a physical inorganic object, will never ever register with Life.

>>49084930

Humans are never an exception, they're the baseline.

>>49084982
All my shrugs.

The 'answers in mage are whatever the players feel like' game isn't all that interesting. Who cares. I'll use life, everyone else can use whatever they want. Because that's what this will end in anyway.

>>49085067
Yes, you can do whatever you want, it's true, but that doesn't mean your reason isn't dumb. And if your reason is dumb, you should expect people to point that out.

In fact the whole section on Mage Sight points out that there isn't really one specific answer to each problem anyway.

>>49083336
The biggest mistake beast made was letting people read the first draft.

The second was not getting another one before being released.

Seriously, imagine if they fleshed out horrors a bit more. Right now making a game about murdering horrors and taking their stuff is a pain in the ass. Imagine what it could of been...

>>49085933

Well, I mean, the earliest draft was leaked to get a freelancer blacklisted, and it did get another draft during and after the Kickstarter campaign that got shown off.

>>49085981
What to you mean, to get a freelancer blacklisted?

I'll guess that you're talking about amy, but isn't that stupid? They could've simply told her she wouldn't be getting more work

>>49085933
I think that ultimately the game is better for having had all the criticism of the Kickstarter draft, even if I think a lot of it was built around nitpicking and hyperbole. But if the final version had been the only version we saw, I think Beast would have done better than it has. The well has already been poisoned, so to speak, and nothing will heal it but maybe time.

>>49085981
The leak and the prerelease were more or less the same game.

>>49086057
Someone from Amy's playtest leaked it to get her fired. It didn't work, at least not right away. To get fired you have to be involved in a leak AND point out how sloppy the Exalted art was.

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>>49083646
Nothing?

Ah. Too bad

>>49086057

Ok, so someone got access to the original Beast playtest draft, and threatened to release it unless AmyV stopped posting on WoD general forever, because apparently we can't go one thread without some kind of drama. She obviously didn't, it got leaked. She didn't get blacklisted from that, but rather something else she did later down the line, something about Exalted.

The whole event was very embarrassing.

>>49086146

I looked through my books but none of them had it in there. Sorry, dude. I tried.

Playing World of Darkness for the first time with a human DEA agent in his 30s. What can I expect? Also it's New WoD not Old.

>>49086294

Expect really freaky drugs, given your character's profession. If it's an all Mortal game, you're probably going to run into some even weirder stuff, like biomechanical angels or ghost time travel.

>>49086355
Alright. It's an all mortal game. It's basically Torchwood (obviously without any government backing or funding) if they were lead by an old Korean based out of a headshop and took place in New Mexico. My guy is an undercover agent who infiltrated their group to get a lead on the new drug routes that the cartels were using and got more than he bargained for.

>>49086208
Ah, it was an OWoD thing I guess. Goddamn Rod Ferrel, ruining everything for everyone

>>49086413

Yeah, that sounds like a prime opportunity to run into some Infrastructure, which basically means strange events related to, well, infrastructure: city planning, mail routes, shipping lanes, the drug trade, etc.

>>49086517
Alright. Thanks for the info.

>>49086490
What clan was he

>>49086802

Bahaha, that's a good one

>>49086819

No seriously, what was his clan? I bet he was a Sabbat faggot

>>49086871
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell

How would you convert Zeka to Promethean 2e? Is an Extempore with Flux as their humor out of the question? Can Centimani Alembics be calcified?

>>49087029
Yes, Centimani Alembics can be calcified, like any other, but first and foremost you'd have to homebrew the whole Radiation Transmutation into 4 Alembics

I'd give it to Zeka as the second Transmutation for Centimani, and allow them to take centimani reflexively

>>49087086
I was actually considering not having the Radiation Transmutation, since 2e did away with Lineage based power sets like that. Instead, I was thinking their bestowment would be letting them take Centimani/Flux reflexively and letting them continue to attain milestones while on Flux.

>>49087029
Why Flux? It would be Radiation.

>>49087086
Why would they need a Radiation Transmutation? Just have them use a different version of Electrification that functions the same but is electricity.

>>49087172
Why? That seems like a bad idea, and a bit of a bad fit. I know that they went to Centimanus easier, but why that way of doing it?

>>49087172
> since 2e did away with Lineage based power sets like that

Not to burst your bubble but... Radiation was the only Lineage-based power in 1st ed too

A Beast who styles herself after the Greek Furies and hangs with the Maiden's Blood Sisterhood, protecting the girls of her sorority from monstrous predators and mundane abusers alike. Ugallu Nemesis who completely buys the idea that she's one of the good guys.

y/n?

>>49087234
He just dislikes that centi can't get milestones.

>>49088168
sure. That fits with beast.

>>49088168
>>49088252
The only thing that would prevent you from being one of the good guys is being one of the bad guys. Protecting a group of sorority sisters from monsters would make you one of the good guys.
(Unless they're the "murder all monsters" sort of Hunters, but Maiden's Blood aren't one of those Compacts)

>>49088168
Minus the sorority bit that's the Beast in my mixed game. She's fine as long as she's not being new-convert preachy about the Dark Mother. Nobody cares, the mummy literally has enough memory to recall his sacrifice and trip in Duat, we just want her to help out without trying to preach.

>>49089025

I like the idea of the mortal Hunters and the Circle vampires as easy representations of the struggle against her inhuman nature.

How does a Mummy work out in a crossover game, anyway? I'm not sure that would work super well with any line other than Vampire without some doing, which I would be willing to do but most folks wouldn't.

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>>49079866
Frankly, I wouldn't want to see that.

Anyone remember what the name of that Legacy which focused on Mind and had the attainment of Psychic Projection was again?

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So I'm tempted to use this video as inspiration for a werewolf/humie/maybe hunter chronicle. Any ideas for what these fuckers could be/be doing?

Do Amalgams lose Herminium's property of forming Amalgams with other Perfected Metals on contact?

>>49089549
Selling insurance

>>49089258
Not too bad. The mummy is in henet right now and I'm playing a cultist built with Hunter rules who fills a very different party role. One of the other PCs is high priest of his cult and shared on the ritual to wake him, so he's basically a 'we have a major problem this arc, rise Arisen!' sledge hammer. Though he also has several long term projects he'll get up for longer stretches for as well when needing the personal touch.

So I basically have to keep on top of two PCs sheet wise, but it is fun to play.

So my.toreador player diablerised a tremere npc that I have bavkstoried as part of a salubri hunting coterie debating if I should give himobeah for kick or just stick him with path of the mind in Thaumaturgy. What do y'all think?

>>49089810
>playing VtM

>>49089810
I learned VtM from the videogame, so I have no idea what any of those words mean after Tremere.

>>49089549
frat hazing linked to ashwood abbey. the werewolf will be there shortly

if Ruling death is enough to Decay? What does Weaving/Perfecting Entropy like?

>>49090001
Is this the third time you've asked this, or just the second? Somebody answer this poor guy.

Sooooo hypothetically speaking, if i were say to be playing Giest, and i happened to make a move on this guy a yanadere werewolf had laid claim to, how might i make it out of this alive?

wouldn't it suck if you Awakened when you are already old and dying? Wouldn't Mages who Awaken early have an edge?

>>49090032
Blame someone tougher than you, deflect the wolf mauling.

>>49090041
Are you that dude from last month who was trying to make an immortal mage?

>>49089549
Invictus vamps trying to find a dead body reported by someone else, so they can clean it up.

>>49090032
1) You're a Geist, you already failed to 'make it out of this alive'
2) You're a Geist, he literally can't kill you. You will just resurrect.
3) You're a Geist, kill him. Werewolves are scariest in numbers. One on One they are okay.

>>49090041
Consider it incentive to be even more reckless.
The more adventurous you are, the more beats you get, and the faster you learn.
The faster you'll learn either life extending Magic, or achieve Archmastery.

>>49090041
Couldn't you just rip out your soul and throw it into a younger body?

>>49090085
>3) You're a Geist, kill him. Werewolves are scariest in numbers. One on One they are okay.

I don't have it, but that "the_gauru_response.webm" that gets posted every so often is a good response to this.
Werewolves aren't 'okay' in a one-on-one, unless they've got nothing in combat at all in hishu form.

>>49090085
>2) You're a Geist, he literally can't kill you. You will just resurrect.

5 times

Sin-Eaters aren't the "always comes back" splat, that'd be Purified

>>49089808

Awesome. I've always wanted to do a game where everyone had both a mummy and a cultist to play, so it's good to hear that model is actually fun to play.

Consider me jealous, anon!

>>49090157
I'm also the Scion playtest guy. I feel like I'm basically fucking with you specifically at this point, sorry dude

By the way we now have a Chinese Olympian (in the athlete sense) Scion of Bastet and a dude thinking of making a Scion of Odin. We're basically hitting all the pantheons you find most boring.

>>49090133
I know this thread loves to go balls deep into retard land, but naw.

Werewolves are strong, but Geists can also be strong, and Geists are great at manipulating the environment they are fighting in.

If you put a werewolf in war form, you might have just won the whole fight. They lose the ability to be clever, they have to brute force the situation and if you have any powers that allow you to hide, leave, get harder to get to, etc, the wolf could be in for a bad time.

Always? No, because I'm not going to run some white room simulation of perfect geist vs perfect werewolf because it isn't what is going to happen in actual play.

But that said, even if the Sin-eater realizes they are outclasses and screwed up by picking a fight... THEY CAN'T DIE.

Some poor grandma somewhere will die of terrible werewolf claw strikes, and the Sin-eater will come back.

So whatever, get your best anti-werewolf gear (a shotgun is good), and give it your best shot.

>>49090134
Yeah, and your average campaign will lead to 0 normal deaths. So I'm guessing anon still has every death still in the bank. Especially if it is a crossover campaign.

>>49090202
Sin-Eaters die anon.

With a GOOJ card, the ST kid gloves come off

>>49090188

Don't mind it at all. And I don't mind the Theoi and Aesir if they're done well; I was actually thinking of a Scion of Zeus who is a really intense PE teacher, and you should know I love the Netjer.

>tfw you'd be a Kemetic Pagan if the community wasn't awful

>>49090215
Hey I mean anything goes if you actually find a game that lets you play as a Sin-Eater. May as well kill them like Kenny.

Yanadere werewolf anon here. I am still at 0 deaths actually, other than this small transgression i've been very careful.While i know this particular wolf to be the tribes lore master, not a warrior, I myself do not have the greatest amount of direct combat utility. Mostly i have the ability to scout, sneak, and fuck with peoples heads, i'm not built for direct confrontation. I mean, i could res, but i figure even if i do res they'll just find me again, and i'd rather not piss off said tribe. Even if i can get one, i won't be able to kill them all.

On a different note, can anyone tell me how torture works mechanically in Nwod? I mean i understand it's gonna fuck with my morality, but what are the mechanics for the act itself. I know when i played shadow run there were actually rules for it. Are there rules for torture/interrogation in Nwod?

>>49090261
Sin-Eaters and mummies: Resurrection Bros

>>49090134
Actually, you keep coming back until your Geist gets tired of bothering. You just lose your sanity completely after 5 times.

>>49090196
Sin-eaters are ridiculously strong, it's true, but I do think a Werewolf could beat one to shit pretty quickly. The Sin-eater would be on his feet the whole time, though.
That said, Passion Marionette once let me put a Werewolf at -8 to do anything but weep. That was 1e, though, and a literal white room.

Also, no one wants to die, even if it isn't permanent.

>>49090215
>>49090261
Actually when I ran Geist only one person died, and that was more so I could show them where the entrance to the Underworld was (it was a Silent Hill situation, where they were dragged into it). I ruled that the Underworld's "if you die you're spit out at the entrance with one less Morality" rule overruled the "you lose 2 permanent synergy when you die" rule.

>>49090277
>On a different note, can anyone tell me how torture works mechanically in Nwod? I mean i understand it's gonna fuck with my morality, but what are the mechanics for the act itself. I know when i played shadow run there were actually rules for it. Are there rules for torture/interrogation in Nwod?
Uh... any way? I can think of several.
Why would you need a torture skill.
Torture doesn't even tend to work in real life...

>>49090279
Can't Prometheans get in on that action?
I haven't read 2e.

>>49090310
Osirins can

>>49090277
Extended roll, ask your ST for the pool based on what methods you want to use. Keep rolling until you get enough successes to break the person. It would work a lot like the interrogation example in skills, I would say. But yeah, likely an integrity break point (well, morality, synergy? Whatever. 1e vs 2e.)

>>49090310
>>49090313
All Prometheans get ONE res.

Osirins get more.

But yeah, every Promethean dies and goes to the underworld once. They come back after they find and drink from a river in the underworld.

>>49090296

Well i mean i understand i can do it any way i please that doesn't make the storyteller hate me, its just is there anywhere were it discusses the dice rolls, positive and negative modifiers, you know, the mechanics?

I mean i know it's unreliable, but i figure the storyteller won't bend me over a barrel about that, and i have information i need to survive and a prisoner who has said information. So since everyone else in the party is squeamish, its pretty much up to me to do it. I hate it, but it's gotta be done.

>>49090334
Why do Prometheans need to go to the Underworld of all places?

Is the Principle dead?

so In mage Cosmology your Soul is not "you"?

>>49090364
The Principle works in mysterious ways.
So pull out your copy of Sin-eaters, or Book of the Dead (was that the name of the blue book?), because Promethean doesn't go into great detail about the Underworld.

Mostly because Prometheans aren't expected to spend too much time there. They talk with some ghosts, find a river, maybe fight a ghost or two. Then come on home in time to turn into a human.

>>49090385
If you mean your memories and personality, no.

>>49090385
>>49090431
It is your will to do anything, though.

>>49090385
In CofD, since they changed the Soul Loss mechanics in the GMC errata, a soul is basically a magical battery that powers things like willpower regen and integrity. Mage's souls are super-deluxe commerical grade batteries that can power supernal spells as well as the other stuff.

They have ID numbers so the relevant beings an recognise who's soul is who's, but they're generally generic so you don't necessarily need YOUR soul to function, just A soul (and in the case of Mages any Mage's soul is as good as another).

Your memories, your supernatural powers, your personality are all stored in your Mind. This is the thing that projects into Twilight and is unique to you and bloody difficult to replace/recover/rebuild if lost.

Ideally you want your mind & soul to stick together, but with a few exceptions, it's not necessary.

>>49090459
Isn't that sekhem? I figured the soul for mages would be different.

>>49090313
>>49090334
Just how many times can you use Revivification, anyway?

>>49090364
Because human life means dying, so Prometheans die as part of their journey to become human. Look at Bicentennial Man. (I've only seen the movie).

>>49090321
>>49090277
>>49090344
>Well i mean i understand i can do it any way i please that doesn't make the storyteller hate me, its just is there anywhere were it discusses the dice rolls, positive and negative modifiers, you know, the mechanics?
What I meant is that it's not the kind of thing that is going to have one single roll.
I actually have what amounts to torture rules as part of my homebrew for the Whipping Boys.
https://tmblr.co/ZIFdmw27KSZGO

>>49090487
>Just how many times can you use Revivification, anyway?

As many as you like, if you're an Osirin

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>>49089549
Wow I'm a retard, I didn't even post the full version that's way crazier.

>>49090486

Sekhem is like a weird combination of the sum life force of the universe, Fate itself, and then memory and emotion given physical shape. Or to quote Dark Eras:

>In the beginning, the divine Akh shaped chaos into Sekhem, the raw power of the manifest world. Sekhem is more than “life energy.” The course of destiny obeys its flow. The Scorpion lords carelessly shaped Sekhem, leaving cursed artifacts and places throughout Kemet. Weret-Hekau don’t command Sekhem with pure will, but look to A’aru, cultivate the Akh and manipulate Sekhem indirectly, like a farmer digging trenches to shape the flood for her benefit. Sekhem always carries a touch of its original chaos, so careless handling provokes Apep, the serpent.
>In contemporary terms, Sekhem is not “Supernal,” but the stuff of existence as it actually manifests. Awakened magic interacts with it like a smith holding tongs, while the Predynastic ancients preferred to grab this molten stuff with the spiritual equivalent of their bare hands.

>>49079340
Dude hes easily a Fate Mage. Probably Free Council.

>>49090486
sekhem's just the clues left by an Oracle to rez atlantis

How do I get access to social merit like Allies when they are far off in the other side of the world with no internet/phone? Like a Mystic Druid cult from back home?

>>49090707
Scrying.

>>49090658
I don't have a lot of Constantine experience, but would he really join an order at all? He seems to like to go it alone.

>>49090707
Telepathy? Spirit magic?

Convince them a cell phone is just an air elemental in disguise so they'll adopt it's use?

>>49090735
Probably. I was not sure if joining an order was necessary or not. He is easily a fate mage though.

What are Ghosts exactly in mage Cosmology?

>>49091154
Echoes of a dead mind, blasted into twilight, likely by trauma. Sometimes they just haven't moved on, sometimes they are underworld escapees who keep coming back because they are little shittards.

>>49091183
In an Anime I watched underwater Detritus contained the feelings/memories of those long gone or in the past? Can I have a Mage who sees ghosts in this way?

>>49091183
(btw this is what they are in the whole cofd cosmology, because... you know... cofd is a unified cosmology)

>>49090658
I don't think Constantine is a Mage. The only thing that qualifies him for that at all is his fate powers. I think he'd work better as a hedge magician with some freaky fate control power.

>>49091373
And his psychic powers, summoning and making pacts with demons, controlling fire, making magical wards and traps.

>>49091434
I just feel like making Constantine a Marge undermines his character a bit. He's not magic because he's special, he's magic because he worked for it. I know Mage's work for their power, but I just think he works better if he is some guy.

>>49091636
I kind of get what you mean but you cant make a character 100 percent accurate in almost any system.
Also his origin story of him accidentally summoning a demon is a hell of an awakening

What gameline/s is/are most adapt at recreating other splats?

>>49091758
Remember that he made Pacts for his soul with 3 different Demons.

>>49092857
And they all had to fight eachother so he effectively got 3 things for free.

>>49091214

Geist 2e has them be fully sentient people, just dead.

So what exactly is the deal with the claim manifestation when it's used by non-spirit entities? or is it EXPLICITLY for spirits only?

>>49092964

Claim is for Spirits only, I'm pretty sure.

>>49091636
And if he's 'just some guy', he totally couldn't have done all the shit he's done. Meanwhile, Mages could have!

>>49093246
Do we know if Claim is incompatible with Familiar?
I want my familiar to BE my cat, not merely be chained to it in twilight.

>>49093289
To have claim you usually have to be higher rank. A rank 1/2 could have it I guess but it'd have to give up some numina to get the extra manifestations.

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>>49093478
Actually I can't, sadly.

You need to be able to apply the Controlled condition to the target to claim it, which requires Influence 3, which requires Rank 3. Which is beyond the bonds of a Familiar.

Pity. I guess I'll just have to be happy with my materializing cat spirit with neat powers helpful influences, and significant strength.

>>49092964

Nah, other things can have it.

>>49093962

What would those be? I was thinking maybe Strix.

>>49090735
Not on a long term. Maybe to solve a bigger problem. But that is it.

Even if John is a massive cunt, he dislikes having people around him that might get in danger because of him.

>>49093628

You do know that if you're a Thyrsus with 4 dots in Spirit - the necessary level to apply the Familiar spell - you can just Pattern on whatever Conditions you want, right? You can staple your familiar onto your cat with a wave of your wand.

>>49092945
Ghosts in general are sentient at rank 2. They're still created through the memories of the dead.

>>49093999
Strix aren't actually ephemeral. They have different rules.

>>49094797

They're also sapient at Rank 1. Not related to the conversation, I just thought that was neat.

>Rank 1 ghosts, for those playing the home game, are also fully sapient people, only their sense of self has eroded to the point that they're stuck in a loop reliving some key event over and over--often their own death, but not always. Many aren't even aware that they're stuck in that loop. Many don't even know they're dead anymore. If they ever did in the first place.)

>Picture a human being the universe periodically hits the "reload last checkpoint" button on. Now add all the traumatic stuff that comes with being a ghost in general, only it's always fresh and new and horrible. Sometimes mix in the realization that you keep living the same hour/night/whatever over and over again and no matter how hard you try you can't seem to break out of that recursive nightmare.

>That's a Rank 1 ghost.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/399463-will-geist-get-the-2e-treatment?p=960644#post960644

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/399463-will-geist-get-the-2e-treatment?p=960670#post960670

Does a mage take extra paradox if a non-obviously magical spell results in an incidentally magical seeming event?

For example; a mage strikes a promethean with a bolt of lightning during a thunderstorm, causing the promethean to regenerate in front of a mob. Would that mob misrecognizing the actual magic of the event as the promethean's regeneration result in the mage taking extra paradox?

>>49094914

I'd say no.

>>49094914
No. That's not what causes Paradox. Paradox is caused by the abyssal shard in a person to awaken in response to Supernal magic.

>>49094914

That would cause Paradox in Ascension, but not Awakening.

Would a promethean desiring to become human explicitly to be embraced fuck up the Path?

Starting a mixed chronicle and need a reason for a Frankenstein to join a werewolf-kindred buddy cop movie.

As an aside, I like how their proposed solution to disquiet fucking up mixed chronicles is to also make it fuck up the exp curve.

>>49095236
Maybe not. No one says all Prometheans want to be human for good reasons, and some Elpises are awful things like fear or anger.

>>49095236
>>49095556
It wouldn't fuck up the Pilgrimage, but I feel it would be dramatically out of character to the point that I'm not sure how or why someone driven by the Divine Fire to become human would want to do so just to throw away their humanity. I mean, I could see it being that way if the Promethean were wanting to become a Mage, because they don't want to stop their trip to Enlightenment at merely being human, but "vampire" is a big step down.

Also, Prometheans reduce Frenzy and Kuruth prevention rolls.

>>49095645
But isn't part of being human the chance to make choices like that? A promethean never had a say in being created, or even being a promethean. But the embrace is something you can CHOSE for yourself. Obviously, not every promethean would feel this way, but it's certainly a thematically viable path.

>>49095691
>But the embrace is something you can CHOSE for yourself.
Tel that to every vampire that didn't get a choice in that.

Is it viable to play a game with only 1 or 2 covenants? Like the Invictus VS the Carthians?

>>49095930
I said can, not will.

>>49096033
All things are possible with the help of the lord.

>>49096033
Absolutely. It's totally possible those two, being secular political machines, have edged out The Lancea Sanctum and Circle of the Crone into being very small entities, and it's now just a slap fight those two, leading to wild fights and enormous shit talking in court.

We all know the Ordo Dracul ignores the situation as much as possible anyway

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>>49095236
>mixed chronicle

>>49096145
The vampire drinks the blood, werewolf eats the meat, and promethean gets the bones.

It's just pragmatic really.

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>>49096311
>mixed chronicle

>>49096311
>promethean gets the bones.
what

>>49096498
Because you don't just find drumsticks in the wild, you need to make them.

>>49096108

Thanks. Also, how much internal struggle should be present in each covenant? Are the Invictus constantly stabbing each other and using Dominate on each other or are they trying to keep their pyramid scheme remotely balanced?

>>49091636
I always saw him as a very, very powerful (and knowledgeable) Second Sight linear sorcerer.

>>>49089810
Bumping this question. Would like advice

>>49096547
The Invictus places a lot of effort in looking seemingly unified but it really depends on who is in charge. If the Invictus are in charge then the whoke thing becomes a dizzying array of mob family style favor-for-favor-for-favor all the way up and down the chain and every other way. If the Carthians are in power, the Invictus builds a so-called Inner Circle and next thing you know the Carthians have to deal with the entire Invictus acting as a singke unified voting bloc at all times.

As for internal conflict, well the Invictus sometimes has piss fights between elders but it's always influence battles, if anyone gets shot it's mortal pawns and maybe ghouls, but it's more about making them look bad, and everyone is secretly out to get everyone else in the giant pyramid.

For Carthians, they often have trouble even wanting similar things. One group may want a progressive democratic socialist state, the ither group wants to make an Authoritarian communist regime, and the other Carthians three blocks away think Hitler may have been on the right track.

The only common point either if these groups have is being secular. Carthians often aggressively so.

>>49090658
>>49091434
Have you read Hellblazer? He doesn't have psychic powers, any demons he summons are through rituals(and Inferno demons, at best), he doesn't control fire, etc etc

He's just a normal guy. The only thing even remotely magical about him, naturally, is that Fate constantly pushes him towards important events. He's clever as hell, but not to any magical degree.
He's, at best, a mortal, with the Fate merit or w/e, an Occult Library, and a handful of Second Sight thaumaturge merits that he worked for.(Both versions of Evocation, although ghosts is a little arguable, Warding, and a handful of others)
Also, arguably Longevity, I guess, due to Nergal's blood.

To paraphrase something he said of himself, Constantine isn't a man of mystery who pretends to be a normal bloke. He's a normal bloke who pretends to be a man of mystery.
Making him a Mage would flip that on its head.

>>49096815
http://hellblazer.wikia.com/wiki/John_Constantine
go down to powers bud.

I can't tell if this is mostly mage wank, or hellblazer wank.

>>49096859
Yeah. He knows stuff. He has very little inherent power.

He isn't a Mage, the is a Thaumaturge.

>>49096894
>He isn't a Mage
some of those powers are pretty high level spells

>>49096873

Porque no los dos

>>49096873
Hellblazer is basically WoD

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>>49096859
>curses
>astral projection
>wards
>demon summoning
>divination
>not a mage

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>>49097284
Holy shit, I should have tried scrolling. This nigger can time travel.

Given that John was one of the major inspirations for Mage and is given as an example of a high Wisdom Mage - and his "The universe is fucking with me" is an example of long-term Nimbus effects - the guy is pretty good as a Mage comparison.

John is self-deluding but everyone around him constantly refers to him as one of the most powerful sorcerers. The guy confounds demons. In another life, his twin - the Golden Child - is a grand sorcerer treated as a god-king. He is far, far more potent than he ever lets on or lets himself be. Part of that is a squandering of talent and a part of that is a genuine desire to not be anything more than human; to never let himself be one of the prancing tossers in purple robes who declare themselves Grand High Magician Belfagor or some bollocks.

John's definitely a Mage.

>>49097284
Right? Constantine is a fucking archmage with all the bullshit he does.

>>49097330
Thanks for the support buddy. People seem to think that just because John doesnt throw around lightning bolts or needs preparation for his more powerful spells means hes not a mage. It just makes him smart.

No. John is an overpowered Thaumaturge.
A Mage is just given all their power without effort. John has had to work for his.

>>49097425
>newly awakened mages can just rip open time and space and speak to god without any effort what so ever
ok

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>>49097425
>A Mage is just given all their power without effort.
If I was a Mage I'd be pretty butthurt right now.

>>49097425
Naw man, come on.
Mages 'Awaken' to the ability to do magic. They aren't just handed it.

Five minutes after a mage has awakened, they are a useless sack.

>>49097477
>>49097472
>>49097444

No, but they don't have to practice, they don't have to study. Just experience weird stuff and they become better mages.

>>49097496
>but they don't have to practice, they don't have to study.
So a mage who sits on his ass all day can eventually become an archmage?

>>49097520
Read the latter half of my comment moron.

>>49097520
This puts a whole new light on that splat.

>>49097496
>No, but they don't have to practice, they don't have to study.

Nigga, that is literally what the process of spending XP represents.

That you GET the XP from experiencing weird stuff doesn't mean you're actually learning how to do Life magic directly from watching two werewolves fuck.

You may as well argue that NOBODY in WoD practices or studies anything because they get all their XP just from time passing and accomplishing their goals and then just spend it on whatever. "Well I had a good emotional character development and then just this morning I woke up better at Science! Weird!"

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>>49097496
Thaumaturges can't do any of the shit that John can no matter how much time they spend practicing. He is literally a Mage.

>>49097477

A Mage who is freshly Awakened is still reasonably potent. Knowing and Unveiling spells are astonishingly potent when you use them smartly.

>>49097496

Experiencing weird stuff is -how- they practice and study. Studying and practicing, meanwhile, counts as "weird stuff" if done in the right way.

Mages gain A-Beats by being exposed to magic and learning better how it fits into and shapes the world.

Also, this: >>49097537

>>49097525
Isnt experiencing the supernatural and exposing themselves to magical stimuli count as learning and training? And what the fuck do you call John talking to ghosts or making deals with demons if not experiencing weird shit?

>>49097549
They can, actually. They just have to buy rotes as individual "practices" as they are called. And have to do them ritual style.

>>49097555
Since when is going on a field trip the same as finals cramming?
Mages don't have to know shit. Their souls do all the hard work.

>>49097602
>Resurrection — In the graphic novel Pandemonium, he once allowed himself to be killed, but later resurrects himself by exiting the afterlife.
Can they walk their way out of heaven?

>>49097630
Of course not. Since WoD don't have an afterlife like that.
Any kind of shit that relies on the specific cosmology is inapplicable.

>>49097647
You can walk out of the underworld.

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>>49097730
>man who can time travel
>mortal
CofD has stranger definitions for supernatural beings than I thought.

>>49097730
Yeah. But that's just a tiny part of you. Either way, you have to cheat like a motherfucker to get back over rivers as a ghost.

>>49097792
Don't quote me, buddy.

I got ganged up on before for saying that mages aren't any less inhuman than other creeps.

The mage wankers came out in droves to talk about how 'perfectly normal and human' mages are while they blast fireballs out their ass because they thought about it really hard.

>>49097823
Mages suck, and mage fans suck harder.

They are literally supernatural equivalent of the spoiled kids of the 1%.
And the fans are those who think this is cool.

>>49097823
I didn't mean to quote you, pal. It was a mistake.

>>49097842
Not my fault you picked a lesser splat

>>49097884
See. This is EXACTLY what I mean. The "oh, we are so much better than you" mentality.

The fact that John Constantine has to suffer and work and crawl through shit for his power means he isn't one of them. And THAT is why they hate on him.

>>49097537
>doesn't mean you're actually learning how to do Life magic directly from watching two werewolves fuck.
I mean, maybe you aren't. Maybe some of us aren't just jacking it at the Storm Lord's Sex Theater

>>49097884
>>49097914
Samefag falseflag

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>>49097928

>>49097914
I love mage and I also love Constantine.

>>49097914
I hate mage and I also hate Constantine.

>>49097995
I hate mace and I also love constantinople

>>49097954
Holy shit, you actually edited it.

>>49098026
magefags, everybody

I just got my backer's copy of Beast. I don't know whether to feel happy our vaguely disappointed in myself for backing it. Seeing as how I like Beast despite knowing it is a flawed game, I guess I'll do both.

>>49081848
The Divine Fire slips right through Supernal magic. I wouldn't be surprised if all the Mage had to do was to drop all the spells they had and get desperate enough.

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>>49098026
Fuck no. Here is a zoomed out version.

Are you really this fucking insecure that people don't like your Mage fuckery?

>>49098058
That was like, yesterday man. The answer seems to be 'not even Mage knows what to use, just throw crap at it and then make stuff up until your ST accepts it.'

>>49098099
Translation: Just use whatever, you're a Mage after all :^)

>>49098058
We have DaveB confirmation that Mages can block out the disquiet radiation from Prometheans though, so they have SOME power over it.

>>49098119
That's reading the inverse there.

>>49098174
Naw, that's pretty much how the conversation ended.

No one could decide what was ACTUALLY used, except to like... let the mage try stuff and then have the ST go 'that worked!' whenever it felt good.

I don't know, Mage is some sort of creativity hugbox, to turn it into buzzwords.

>>49094828
Sucks to be a ghost, eh?

>>49098149
Of course they can, couldn't have another splat challenging a Mage like that

>>49082999
As much as I like to harp on Beast, I disagree with this one thing you said. X that came from Y could have come from Z, a-235 or F/V. "You Are Infected" could come from Vampires, Legion Mages, Firetouched with Gifts of disease, Ghost of Typhoid Mary, radioactive horror or a Slasher with leprosy.

>>49098231
Generally, yeah

>>49098253
Really? Fuck's sake guys that's like the least dangerous thing. Not like the Mage could stop Wasteland or Torment or the internal alchemies of Prometheans.

That's like getting pissed because Mages can magically create cold iron and fuck up with changelings

>>49098400
>That's like getting pissed because Mages can magically create cold iron and fuck up with changelings

They can't though. It's explicitly said it can't be magicked in any way.

>>49098499
Yeah but what if I mix Prime, Matter, and Forces?
Storyteller-anon, would that work to make cold iron?

>>49098400

Even if they could, what's it matter? CofD is about telling stories. If the game's mechanics don't fit the theme, change or discard them.

It's why I don't like cross-splat games; very hard to unify themes and atmosphere.

>>49098544
Nope. Because you used magic on it.

>>49098499

Anon probably means Siderite, which like all Perfected Metals ignores any qualifiers put on a bane. So it's iron that ignores the "must be nonmagical" clause.

>>49098570
But I didn't use magic on it, I used magic to have it come into existence. It pops out whole cloth.

The point of Cold Iron is that it is UNWORKED. I never actually work the metal, no smelting or ironworking. So it should be legit Cold Iron.

>>49090277
World of Darkness: Antagonists has rules for brainwashing on p.77
Presence+ Intimidation or Persuasion vs Resolve + Stamina
Resisted and Contested, 3 hours per roll
5 success - variation on previously held beliefs
10 successes - new set of beliefs, without a change of lifestyle
15 successes - change of lifestyle, but remains loyal to friends/family and won't break their moral code
20 successes - everything and anything
If they reach a number of successes equal to your Willpower, they resist.

>>49098605
Yeah, but the definitions of cold iron in Changeling demands that it be mundane and not worked with magic.

I don't think "summoned" counts as mundane.

>>49098544
No, but you accidentally made some enriched uranium. Good job, mage.

>>49098653
It hasn't been 'worked' at all though, because it has never been smelt, iron-worked, and any other definition of worked.

By all means, it fits the definition of not being 'worked' by magic.

Don't you understand the themes of Mage? With enough arcana I'm allowed to do this.

>>49093999
Some Angels, maybe? Serotonin from CofD can Possess people, so Claiming is just a step further.

>>49098685
>Don't you understand the themes of Mage?

"We have literally no downsides" is a theme?

>>49098706
Yes.

Mages can't do anything to the radiation of Disquiet. They *can* make a spell that Clashes any supernatural mind-affecting thing that influences their subject's emotions, though, which will protect whoever they cast it on, assuming the mage's Gnosis roll beats the Promethean's Azoth roll.

>>49098685
>Don't you understand the themes of Mage? With enough arcana I'm allowed to do this.

It's still not mundane iron though.
It has the supernal symbol of "made by magic" on it.

>>49098706
No, it's hubris :^)

You just don't understand how HARD it is to be a Mage it is both a curse and a gift.

>>49098692
Anything that uses numina can have claim, right?

I mean you might argue what can and cannot jump into someone to claim them, but taking the numina isn't limited in the books is it?

So, Angels, Ghosts, Spirits, Stryx, Pangeans (who are just super spirits anyway), etc etc can all take it.

>>49098735
Yeah. The curse is if you are clumsy and overuse your powers they might break a little.

The blessing is that you have no other drawbacks at all.

A Mage can easily avoid all drawbacks of their splat by just living a normal life.

>>49098735
Oh no what a curse aaaaah. /sarcasm

>>49098761
>A Mage can easily avoid all drawbacks of their splat by just living a normal life.

Too bad they can't.

>>49098002
I ate maize and I also 'ave constipation.

>>49098779
What is stopping them? Seriously.

Vampires have the Beast, Werewolves have their half-spirit nature, Prometheans are outcasts in all ways, Changelings are physically re-made, and hunted by monsters.

Mages are... human.

>>49098761
>>49098765
You don't understand how SCARY the abyss is, it is so lucky the other splats don't have to deal with it

Mage is easily the most terrifying splat

>>49098818
But only if they choose to deal with it. A Mage who is careful with magic, and doesn't go over-board never has to worry.

File: the cabal meets up.png (1MB, 779x1210px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 779x1210px

>>49098817
Stand Users attract to each other, senpai.

>>49098817
>What is stopping them? Seriously.

NIGGA IT AIN'T CALLED AN OBSESSION BECAUSE YOUR CHARACTER DOESN'T FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

>>49098099
I reject that answer and substitute my own! But, yeah, should have looked at the date.
>>49098149
I think it's more about having control over their minds than the Disquiet. Like when you hold your umbrella tight, so the storm doesn't blow it away, you don't really control the storm.

>>49098149
They don't block out the radiation, they use Mind to keep it from affecting their thought processes. It's more like they are holding their brains together with magic. This has been true since 1e, it was in Magnum Opus.

>>49098860
Yeah. But they don't have to follow it. The only incentive is that it makes magic easier to learn.

It's really a badly chosen name, since they don't have anything to force them to be obsessed.

>>49098884
I think I'll houserule the Obsession condition as a core of Mage. Maybe allow to spend 1 willpower to ignore it for a scene

>>49098818
You know, except when they do have to deal with it. They don't have to nearly as often, but sometimes a qualified Mage isn't around to clean up the mess or they don't even know there is a mess.

>>49098754
Sounds about right. Except anything a Pangaean tries to Claim would probably explode.

>>49098884
>Yeah. But they don't have to follow it.

It is called an obsession.

Putting it on your sheet when it is not your character's obsession is like putting a Vice down that your character doesn't express and then complaining that the system doesn't actually incentivize following your vice.

>>49098884
What usually forces people to be obsessed?

>>49098930
Yeah but not right away. Think of Cass with the leviathans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKVvn2sgfg8

>>49098980
Virtue and Vice are also things that I don't like, so yeah, good examples.
There is absolutely nothing that forces a character to behave that way. There is nothing to make them behave as anything other than success-maximising robots.

>>49099021
>There is nothing to make them behave as anything other than success-maximising robots.

Spoilers: That's what you're bringing to the table.

>>49099011
I'll take that.

Speaking of Castiel, I haven't been watching Supernatural for a few years now. Is Jimmy still inside? If he is, I imagine him to be slightly fed up with... everything.

>>49099021
Are there any mechanical solutions that you've found to work? You're not exactly bringing anything to the table right now.

This reminds me that the release of Beast killed any talk about the Leviathan fansplat.

lol

>>49098930
I don't think they could claim people, they have physical bodies.

>>49099090
>>49099054

I just find it annoying that the game says "you should do this", and there are no mechanical ways to make the characters do stuff.

The Touchstone system of Vampire is fantastic. It makes the "creepy stalker" part of vampire stories fit in perfectly. You have to be an obsessed psycho-creep unless you want to be a monster.

That is fantastic.

>>49099105
Good, Leviathan was shit

>>49099121
Don't Stryx or whatever have physical bodies? Or are they always smoke or something. I never read Blood and Smoke in detail, since my group never does Vampire.

But either way, they are magic. Having a physical body doesn't mean anything. Spirits have a body in shadow, and THAT goes away. As far as the shadow is concerned, that is a 'physical body'.

>>49099126
So you're just one of the players for whom carrots have no power. That's fine, but you're not a typical psychographic and you should probably keep that in mind when evaluating systems.

Anyway, stick-based Virtue/Vices are fairly easy: whenever you COULD express them but don't, lose as much Willpower as you would have gained (so "all of it" for a big moment, or "just 1 point" for a small indiscretion).

Obsessions are more easily done as a Wisdom sin; "neglecting your obsession for an entire [session or arc, depending on how harsh you want to be]," "neglecting your obsession for an entire arc (-2)," "neglecting your obsession for an entire story (-4)"

>>49099126
So you prefer sticks over carrots in your game systems?

>>49099150
What was it?

>>49099165
They are smoke-ghost-things seeking bodies to possess for all that sweet physical stuff like food, sex, pooping, and the emotional high you get from indulging in your worst impulses.

So has anyone ever run or played the fan splat Giant?

>>49099221
Pooping is pretty dope.
Enjoy that while you can bro.

>>49099121
Hence my belief the vessel would explode. The other Anon had an equally valid idea, "valid" meaning "not directly clashing with the core concept".

>>49099239
I'm pretty fond of sneezing, myself. There was a case of a woman who had an orgasm any time she sneezed. That's pretty extreme, but I can see that happening.

>>49099275
I get goosebumps, it sucks sometimes.

>>49099275
>a woman who had an orgasm any time she sneezed

Allergies, here I come

How good are Hunter's rules for monster making?

>>49099327
You need pepper to spice up your life.
>>49099296
Do you at least get shivers running through your spine?

>>49099180
Could work.
I mean, it needs some fiddling but it's a good basis.

The problem is that following the Obsession is going to make wisdom sins worse.
So you'd be punished both ways, as it were.

>>49099403
Literally the best.

Dread powers make making monsters quick, accessible, and has just enough oomph to keep your players interested without you needing to read a 300 page book each time you want to make a new monster.

Once I needed to make some immortal bug monsters that transformed near death into big albino grasshopper things.

Like, no game covers that.

Basic Hunter book rules, BAM, covered.

>>49099437
Oh yeah baby.
Feels awful if I have a cold or fever though.
All other times, bring on the sneezes.

>>49099441
>The problem is that following the Obsession is going to make wisdom sins worse.
>So you'd be punished both ways, as it were.

Aye, that was the idea. Shows how Mages are walking the knife's edge: if they neglect their Obsessions completely, that isn't "wisdom," it's just an addict locking themselves in their room and claiming they're without temptation. If they indulge in their Obsessions, well, that still isn't wisdom.

>>49099221
>They are smoke-ghost-things seeking bodies to possess for all that sweet physical stuff like food, sex, pooping, and the emotional high you get from indulging in your worst impulses.

Gross

>>49099496
What, don't you enjoy the ability to poop?

Grand Masquerade starts tomorrow. Hopefully something neat will come out of it.

>>49099635
novu temu

>>49098726
I like how everyone just ignores what likely is the real DaveB pointing out how it works.

Do Mages get to make Cold Iron?

Actually, this whole discussion is dumb. I can't tell at this point if people are pretending to love Mage "because they can do anything :^)"

>>49101537
Of course mages can make cold iron? What kind of question is that?