Rifts thread! If I could buy only 5 Rifts books, which ones

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>>49075589
>If I could buy only 5 Rifts books, which ones would you recommend?
Original core rules (not ultimate edition); the Atlantis, England and Coalition War Campaign worldbooks, and the Conversion Book.

>>49075589
Corebook
Sourcebook 1 (Expansion of Core)
Conversion Book 1 (Monsters)
Mercenaries /Martial Classes, Weapons, Enemy Mercs)
+ 1 Setting/Worldbook of your Choice
(I like Atlantis, Canada, Triax)

>>49075632
The data in the Sourcebook 1 is sufficient to get you started with the Coalition and it contains more data about stuff beyond the CS. It's basically the stuff they couldnt fit into the Corebook.

>>49075632
>Original core rules (not ultimate edition);
Why the original and not the new one, if I may ask?

>>49075749
Not him but the art is one reason. It's much more coherent and has a better atmosphere in the original core.

>>49075589
Savage Rifts Player's Guide, Savage Rifts GM's Handbook, Savage Rifts Foes of North America, Classic Rifts Corebook (not ultimate edition), and either Vampire Kingdoms or Sourcebook 1.

Is the old core book even available new or do you have to hunt down old copies?

>>49076367
if you can't find it, buy the ultimate edition.

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>>49075938
>Vampire Kingdoms
Sexy vampire kingdoms? Full of female vampires? Doesn't sound so bad...

>>49077036
Can you say Mexico? I knew you could, Gringo.
Predates From Dusk Till Dawn by 4 years.

>>49077414
Mexican vampires don't sound so tough...they probably nap all the time and speak with a nasal accent.

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>>49075589

Rifts Ultimate Edition
Book of Magic
Bionics Sourcebook
World book of choice

I think you only need those four.

>>49078065
I'd add the Game Master Guide to that. For the massive catalogue of equipment gathered in one book if for no other reason.

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>>49077476

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Bump

Why did Emperor Prosek start a war with Tolkeen if it was Dunscon and the Federation of Magic who kidnapped his wife and killed his son?

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This might not be the best thread, but its the only Rifts thread right now, so I may as well ask here.

I just got back from visiting my Uncle, and he gave me his old ttrpg books, amongst which was the Rifts core rulebook, and Wormwood.

Is the system any good? What are the pros and cons of the system? How is the overall feel?

I ask this as someone who's mostly played the horribly unbalanced mess of Pathfinder, and so I'm trying to find a new game to play thats better balanced and scratched my raging CharGen boner

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>>49083808

>Is the system any good? What are the pros and cons of the system? How is the overall feel?

No, it's not. Cons are everything and Pros are nothing. Feels poorly made. This is coming from someone who actually likes and plays it too.

But the world is interesting and I would recommend reading the books anyway, cool art but cool settings. That being said the system is really simple and you could probably learn it and run it pretty quick and decide for yourself if you like it, or if you end up liking the setting and loathing the system you can pickup Savage Rifts.

>>49083907
>No, it's not. Cons are everything and Pros are nothing. Feels poorly made
Seriously? I mean, I play PF, and I'd be pretty surprised if it was worse than PF.

I mean, what is SPECIFICALLY wrong with it?

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>>49084013

I also play Pathfinder and Rifts is still much worse.

Im not going to devolve this thread into a "why Rifts sucks" thread as they often tend to do that all on their own but i'll list some issues.

- Rules scattered throughout a multitude of books
- Things have way to much defense and way too little damage
- Zero attempt at anything resembling class balance starting right from the core book.
- Unclear rules on how a lot of basic things work.
- Major power creep
- Inconsistencies with pretty much every aspect. Sometimes within the same book due to lazy copy pasta.

>>49084013
The books are poorly organized and formatted, so it's terribly difficult to figure out how to play the game.

>>49084013
Rifts is a legacy game that never got a second edition.

That means that, rather than re-evaluating the rules and trying to make them more succinct, it's been stacked upon and added to for almost 30 years now.

Effectively, at it's core, it's a 2e D&D clone that had some interesting ideas for the 80's. Unfortunately, that means it's got the problems every 2e clone has especially the classic ones - Vague rules, obnoxious editing, OP bullshit in some places and some blatant author appeal in others.

Add in about 100 pages of extra skills that still use a completely different dice mechanic from the rest of the game and dozens of books with extra classes, monsters, spells, equipment, etc. and you have a giant goddamned clusterfuck of a system.

In it's defense, it's a system that has some interesting ideas. Skills can alter your basic stats by representing training and exercise routines. The variety of gear and equipment has the same appeal as something like Shadowrun, where there's tons and tons of things to exploit, appeal, learn,and use for different situations. The schizphrenic setting is pretty awesome and filled with unique things, and it rarely falls back into complete cliche.

It's also a very front-loaded system, as well; Character creation is a pain in the ass and takes a while, but there's very little work to be done to a character once they've been made, only small incremental increases to some numbers and the occasional spell being learned.

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>>49083907
Palladium Rifts rules are unbalanced, confusing and messy. Way too many skills, special abilities and even basic rules like freezing scattered across 50 books, and no way even to gauge power levels for PCs, NPCs or monsters.

Try Savage Rifts instead, it looks much better in the rules dept.

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Anybody run Rifts more gritty?

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>>49084013
You know how in PF any attribute that isn't average (10 or 11) has some sort of mechanical effect? Rifts has eight different attributes and some of them don't do anything unless they're 17 or higher (including no penalty when they're low). Note that the bonus from extremely high I.Q. is the only way that attributes effect skills. Also there are no rules for what "charm/impress" actually does.

>>49084256
>2e D&D clone
Not even 2e. It uses the same rules system as all their other games, which predates 2e by a few years. It's a 1e D&D clone.

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Swole power armor.

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>>49077036
Some of the vampires are sexy, but you're more likely to run into the ones that look like this.

>>49085226
I wonder what a "Palladium 2e" would be like. The system may be AD&D 1e slammed together with Basic Role Playing but somewhere along the way it managed to establish its own identity as a rules set. Palladium has its own "feel" and I don't think it is an inherently bad one. It just needs better organization, a makeover, and to be brought up to speed on modern RPG design regardless of where it goes from there.

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>>49087129
Well maybe start by cutting down the skills from 350 to something a little more manageable, like, say, 100? That might do it nicely.

Have the attributes actually do stuff to skills and non-combat abilities.

Scale powers and supernatural abilities so that characters aren't so front-loaded.

List all the fucking basic stuff like freezing damage, drowning, poisoning, charm/impress, negotiation, etc. in ONE FUCKING PLACE.

>>49087225
I think the front-loading is a feature that sets Palladium apart from D&D. You are what you are for the most part. You just get better at what you are over the course of the game.

Speaking of, Palladium Experience and Leveling would need some revision. It has tables for different classes with little sense of rhyme or reason and the experience rewards for Palladium are static so level progression is absolute molasses.

>>49087225
And yes, cutting the Skill list down would help tremendously.

>>49083907
Savage rifts is horrid compared to the original game.

My top 5 books
Ulitmate edition core, you will eventually want the original as it is way gritter and has some gear and stuff only in it.
England had flora and phuana one of the leadt power creepy books
Juicer uprising, cool book amazing art
Mercenaries, great gear good , good classes and alot of prices and background
Canada, new west, and federation of magic, depending on where you want to play

>>49087225
Ill give you basic rules need to be all in one place, this is a real issue.

The front loading I like, it lets you play something up front that while it has room to grow is driving the 10 million dollar mech, or droping fire balls at range while floating in sky.
I cant think of many people who say dang glad we beat those wuss goblins and rats down last night. The villians and enemies are front loaded in rifts to so it feels more epic, and rifts always has something tougher than you to throw at you.
The whole not being equal is an issue if you have a gm with 300 poinds of books points the pile and says....go nuts guys.

Rifts needs limits on parties, you can be any mortal race thats sdc or you cant have more mdc than a sammas, or you have to be tough enough to take down a dragon hatchling. Having one guy not be a combat monster is fine heck they probably do everything else better.

>>49082133
Baby steps. Wiping out one magic city-state was easier than taking on the Federation of Magic. They'll get to it eventually.

>>49088060
>The whole not being equal is an issue if you have a gm with 300 poinds of books points the pile and says....go nuts guys.
Even just the main book has Glitter Boys, Dragon Hatchlings, and Combat Cyborgs alongside Vagabonds, City Rats, and Rogue Scholars.

>>49085111
Nah. I think it's really hard to make the game feel "gritty" (at least in the sense I think you're implying with that image) when most standard armours are sleek suits of advanced ceramic and plastics with air conditioning.

>>49087129
>I wonder what a "Palladium 2e" would be like.

It's been done, it's called Savage Worlds.

>>49088280
Yeah and again the gm can say guys no dragons, or you really want to be city rat, your party is all millionaire murder hobos?

>>49088874
Totaly different rules and a completely diffrent take on the game, from teleport not going miles and missiles maxing out a like 2 miles, to dragons loosing abilities when in human or animal form and mystics some how being holy men now.
Its not at all like rifts its not palladium 2.0 its totaly diffrent. PA is basic now, there is no 600 mph flybys or even crush depths for your robots, no non generic magic, trapings doesnt make up for the versatility and veriety of magic that rifts/palladium has. The whole game is simplicity no depth, it tells you to buy all the palladium books if you want any fluff......the best part of rifts and palladium is its fluff, even paladium haters usaly admit the fluff/world is the best part.
Savage rifts missed the mark and was the wrong system for a conversion IMO

>>49089005
I was just razzing you. There will never be a Palladium 2.0 because Siembieda is a sperg who made his pet system. Palladium is his baby and to him it can do no wrong.

>The whole game is simplicity no depth

It actually has more depth than Rifts by a long stretch. Including a bunch of "lol just wing it" mechanics in Rifts didn't give it depth, compared to a system that has actual tactical elements.

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>>49085111
I've never done it myself, but you could run a game set in the 'burbs and/or lower levels of Chi-Town.

>>49089115
To me it feels only tactical, the out of combat experience feels totally lacking from the books, the whole idea of mook npc's to chew up with a few shots or aoe attacks, with two or three comanders or named npcs with actual ability. It strikes me as a whole other game, not just a take on rifts with say gurps or (shudder) fate rules.
To me a platoon of cs are scary to alot of groups becuase after they all take xover and fire and move and call for CAS. They are actual people who dont wade into laser fire like zombies to be chewed up. They take as many hits as you or close to it and there is 12 or 15 of them, with the fanciest toys and are actually well fed and trained.
Palladium as a whole treats things like orcs and goblins like an actual threat, you dont want to go into their lands becuase they habe fighters and rouges and casters and traps, usal the same iq or cunning as your own race. So a horde or orcs is a real threat. Not something you rapid shot the first 4 in your turn while they rest of your party does something else equally powerful to tear out 20 a combat round.

In Rifts shit was lethal and dying was not to hard to do, yeah its economics for gear and repairs are totally fucked, its rules are spread out and some one with an iq 7 and an iq 15 function about the same in game play.
But its grand in scale and treats the enemy with a bit of reverence not to mention the pcs like any other person. I like that

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>>49089443

I agree with you mostly. A squad of CS soldier was and should be a scary thing to encounter. Unfortunately instead of scary fighting things in Rifts is just a slog-fest of 3d6 weapons whittling away at 100 MDC body armor or 150MDC skelbots and it changes from intense and action packed to boring as fuck.

>>49089222

This is on my short list of games to run, going to be a bit more shadowrun inspired and on the more low powered side.

>>49087225

Smaller skill list and actual, better descriptions of what they do and how they work mechanically.

A "Palladium Megaversal System" core rulebook is what I think is needed. Organized and edited by someone from the modern era.

>>49075589

Core book, original rules
Sourcebook 1
Conversion book 1
World Book 2 Atlantis

World Book 1 Vampire Kingdoms or Dimension Book 1 Wormwood.

I also enjoyed Dimension Book 2 Phase world and the Phaseworld Sourcebook.

>>49076367
The original Core rules can be found in one of the various PDF troves, or for legit purchase via drivethrurpg.

Worst 5?

Spirit West
Japan
South America 1
Psyscape
Dimension Book 9

>>49089443
>To me it feels only tactical

It is more tactical, because it has actual combat options, rules for cover, positioning, various maneuvers, etc. Rifts proper has all the tactical depth of AD&D 1st: none.

>To me a platoon of cs are scary to alot of groups becuase after they all take xover and fire and move and call for CAS. They are actual people who dont wade into laser fire like zombies to be chewed up. They take as many hits as you or close to it and there is 12 or 15 of them, with the fanciest toys and are actually well fed and trained.

You're an edition warrior if you think that. They're still quite capable of acting intelligently in Savage Worlds, and one is pretty close to three.

>Palladium as a whole treats things like orcs and goblins like an actual threat, you dont want to go into their lands becuase they habe fighters and rouges and casters and traps, usal the same iq or cunning as your own race. So a horde or orcs is a real threat. Not something you rapid shot the first 4 in your turn while they rest of your party does something else equally powerful to tear out 20 a combat round.

So what, they're not real threats in Savage Worlds? You've never actually played the system, have you?

In Rifts shit was lethal and dying was not to hard to do, yeah its economics for gear and repairs are totally fucked, its rules are spread out and some one with an iq 7 and an iq 15 function about the same in game play.

It's substantially easier to die in Savage Rifts. We have people complaining all the time about how easy it is to one-shot wildcards.

>>49089443
>They are actual people who dont wade into laser fire like zombies to be chewed up.
Are you under the impression that Savage Worlds has some rule requiring enemies behave stupidly?

How can people not include Conversion Book 1 in their list? It's like the fucking Monster Manual.

>>49087448
Bullshit. Savage Worlds is at least a coherent system, unlike the original.

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Pardon me for copypastaing, but my question from the last thread is, if I add the following stats to power armor/robot armor/vehicles, would it make the game too complex?

>1. Sensor rating to detect things (replaces the Notice skill);
>2. Stealth Systems (including ECM) as camouflage to avoid detection (replaces the Stealth skill).
>3. Firewall to protect against hacking (acts like an opposed Hacking skill for the platform).
>4. Active protection systems (free counter-attack to stop incoming missiles).

There are a lot of combat stats, but not much interesting to do with all those cool robot sensors and systems. At least not in game numbers. Adding these stats would allow lower-power classes like City Rats, Scouts and Psi-Operators to do cool stuff in combat other than firing guns, and back those tricks up with numbers rather than just GM fiat.

This would also give players more interesting choices when choosing armor & vehicles. Rather than just taking the one with the most Armor, they could choose something with better Sensors for a scouting role, better Stealth for an infiltration operation, or better Firewall if they're expected sophisticated hacker opponents. The trade-offs would allow greater variety in power & robot armor.

Thoughts?

>>49093555
Trips confirm

How does the fluff compare?

>>49094406
The Savage Rifts fluff is more concise, a bit more truncated. It's very much intended to be an introduction to the setting for new people rather than a complete rehash of it for veterans. It tends to scale the world stuff back to focusing on the original focus of the game: the midwestern portion of North America, from Canada and the Great Lakes down to the Gulf of Mexico. Lots of rumors and hints about what lies outside that zone, but nothing solid. It's really a lot like the fluff from the original corebook--gonzo and over the top but still grounded in a world that feels grimy and real. The big changes are the introduction of a new good guy faction, starting the setting after all of the extant metaplot up through the Fall of Tolkeen, and scaling back some of the more ludicrous number-based issues of the original setting (like the Coalition's army having like a million combat personnel and Quebec having thousands of Glitter Boys).

If you want to dive in to DEEPEST LORE, you still need the original world books. But the Savage Rifts books are just the start of a whole line, so we'll be getting more stuff from them in the near future to see how different their version of the setting winds up being.

>>49081227
If I take that mask off, will she die?

>>49094478
Probably not. It's just a toxin filter. On the other hand, maybe she's a D-Bee who finds Earth's atmosphere moderately toxic, so she needs the filter to breathe. Who knows?

>>49094570
That sounds extremely painful.

>>49094471
>the more ludicrous number-based issues of the original setting (like the Coalition's army having like a million combat personnel

I always say: divide all Rifts population numbers by 10. Divide military numbers by 100. Then it starts to make sense.

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>>49094691
Don't worry, she's a big girl...

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Coalition Dead Girls need better uniforms.

>>49094782
Uuuu

>Zipper where her vagina is.

>>49095625
For easy access.

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Making some character flats and I can't find a good, full body picture of a coalition psi stalker. Its either just the helmet or obscured by dogs, anyone got one or give me a page number?

>>49097100
IIRC Lone Star and Canada had some full body shots of psi-stalkers.

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>>49097430

Naw, no good full ones in there unfortunately.

Anywho have some trifold raiders.

>>49095551

As if the coalition didn't already have enough misguided fanboys.

>>49100343
Nothing wrong with wiping out necromancers, summoners, wizard fireballers and demon worshippers. Strength through unity!

Savage Rifts has online play forums, if anyone is interested:

http://www.savagerifts.com/index.php

>>49100981
They aren't just anti-magic. They also want to wipe out all non-human people on earth, and are oppressive to their own human population.

Free Quebec completely agrees with the CS on magic, and is actually even more human supremacist (not accepting mutant animals or human psychics). Yet they still felt they needed to secede to get away from the fascism.

anyone in this thread know if its easier to play a techno wizard posing as a mad scientist? or a "mundane" mad scientist through a tech heavy OCC?

>>49103116
>Free Quebec completely agrees with the CS on magic, and is actually even more human supremacist (not accepting mutant animals or human psychics). Yet they still felt they needed to secede to get away from the fascism

I feel like Free Quebec is the most realistic part of the whole north american setting.

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>>49103562

For starters, do you mean in Savage Rifts, or in regular Rifts?

Savage Rifts emphasizes the whole "mad scientist" angle for Techno Wizards a bit more - regular Rifts is more "magician whose spells all work through little trinkets and devices". In either case, they have a lot more options for actually making and modifying stuff.

For regular scientists, there are a lot of options in theory, but the rules are a lot more loose when it comes to making/modifying equipment. Most of those decisions will come down to what your GM allows, but you can get pretty deep into "mad science" stuff with juicer, crazy, borg and other augmentations as long as you have the right skills.

I'm not sure how "mundane" mad scientists would work in Savage worlds, though I don't think they have any particular rules about making equipment so I imagine it would be similarly dependant on your GM.

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Is there astral space and the ethereal on/around Rifts Earth?

>>49105870
There's an astral plane that coincides with earth, but there's no "ethereal plane" in Rifts.

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>>49087129
Cut/consolidate skills, definitely.
Consistent percentages for skill success chance.
Keep the front-loading, but ditch levels.
Maybe replace with d% rolls with a simple d10 or d20 roll under; the extra digit doesn't really do anything.

Consider repurposing the BIO-E mechanic from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness as a balancing mechanic for the classes. Maybe the more powerful classes like the Glitterboy get fewer 'customization' points or whatever, while weaker classes like the Vagabond get much more.

>>49075589
Main. Conversion books 1 and 2. Ninjas and Super Spies. Palladium Fantasy.

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>>49106557
>Conversion books 1 and 2
Do you mean Conversion Book 1 and Dark Conversions? CB2 is the one that gives stats for gods.

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>>49107021

Depends how high powered you want the game to go I suppose.

You would probably pick a completely different 5-book set based on whether it's a high-powered or low-powered game.

You probably wouldn't need the full book of magic, or stats for gods in a New West or Australia game, for example. But for Phase World, or in the Federation of Magic, you might.

I love New Rifts.

>>49108237
If you love it so much why don't you marry it?

Actual question: What's your favorite part of it?

>>49108487
Different anon, but being able to essentially built a custome OCC is a very welcome change from how classic Rifts works.

>>49111370

Original rifts really could have had a lot more of that shit for sure. Then again if there were generic or customizable OCCs how would KS fit 20 new ones into every single world book?

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>>49108487
>If you love it so much why don't you marry it?
I will!

>>49090348
Oh man, Spirit West.

>We're gonna cover all the places left out of New West!
>In two and a half paragraphs.
>The rest of the book will be more goddamn godlings and how the Indians are just as racist as the CS.

>>49114004
>don't forget 27 new OCCs and 52 new weapons and robots including spirit animal power armor
>nothing on actual indian towns, landmarks, nations or territories

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>>49114004

I did not care for that book one bit. Though New West was a hard act to follow, that one is great.

>>49083907
>>49084913
hey retard how's it goin

If you play robots, you are a loser and a munchkin.

Cyborgs are okay.

>>49114061

If he explained the actual Indian territories he'd have to explain how they're able to manufacture giant robot vehicles despite having "returned to the land".

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>>49115414

It's alright, you?

>>49114004
>>49114061
>wanting siembieda to explain the setting

Fuck that. He should have stopped at Atlantis.

>>49118687

Damn, I forgot how bad some of the text in Spirit West was...

>Their descendants are called the Pure Ones, because their lineage is pure,

>Modern Indians have very weak spirit potential,

>Indians seem to have a natural aptitude for magic.

>Traditional Supremacists (racists), also known as Indian Warmongers, are similar to the Traditionalists and Traditional Isolationists in general beliefs, but are openly hostile to all people who do not believe as they do

>>49114004
My players are running in Kansas, so I downloaded the New West and Spirit West books to see what they had to say.

New West is fine, but as far as I'm concerned, there are some Indian tribes, they control some territory, they have pretty good magic-users and mystics to help keep them alive, and they tend to keep to themselves if you just leave them alone. That's good enough without trying to inject the rest of the steaming turd of Spirit West into my game.

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>>49120720

You made the right decision.

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>>49118687
Those are different groups of Indians.

>>49090348
>Japan
Am I the only one who liked the idea of a chunk of pre-Rifts Japan being displaced in time?

>>49123159
Yes, it's pretty much just you. The other 274 people who bought Rifts Japan hated it.

>>49123480

...I didn't hate Rifts Japan

The only RIFTS book you need is Manhunter. Everything else can just go in the trash.

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>>49124576

es decir cebo

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>>49125114
Problem, friendo?

I'm just gonna leave this here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122111777490

>>49129299
>This is my (Kevin Siembieda’s) heavily used, beat up, curled and yellowing pages, torn cover, scribbled in with notes and corrections, chewed up and well-loved personal copy of the Rifts® RPG.

Wew, lad. Another Crisis of Financial Mismanagement on the horizon?

>>49129720

Are you implying there was ever a time with good financial management?