How can Dwarfs even win battles against Elves and Humans? They

"We'll flank them!"

>In recent news, moron general loses entire army while trying to position flanking forces in a cave system.

>>49055815
Their armor and constitution is too hard for pointy bits. They ignore your spears. Also they'll dig all around the battlefield to turn it into a swamp and kill you there from afar.

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>>49055899
LOOK, IT'S A TUNNEL FLANKING MACHINE!

you're free to suppose that some other physiological advantage makes up for the reach disadvantage, like strength, endurance, grip strength etc

>>49055815
>too retarded to use polearms

What makes you say that? Is it because they are generally not portrayed in popular media with polearms?

>>49055919

It can take months to dig out a counter-mine, duder.

>>49055907
Yeah because spear is the only polearm and halberds couldn't possibly deal with armor.

>>49055945
Well maybe for punny humans afraid of hard work. Let me tell you about dwarvish elbow grease. The best of it's kind.

>>49055815
Oh look, another thread where we apply logic by comparing real-world conventions with obvious impracticalities and inconsistencies in a generic fantasy setting. What else is new

>>49056012
Maybe it's time for fantasy to stop being retarded then.

>>49056069
>what is low fantasy

>>49055815
cannons

>>49055815
Smaller hitboxes.

>>49055945
It can also take seconds depending on the cave systems.

>>49056092

NOT THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN.

>>49056125
>It can also take seconds depending on the cave systems.

If you're defending such an unstable location, you've lost the fight.

If you're attacking such an unstable occasion, just blow it the fuck up.

>>49055815
Mass crossbows, flaming bolts and a ready access to flammable gas.

>>49055815
Did you have to make two threads about this? It was stupid the first time you asked, and it's even dumber in the other thread. At least this one attempted to grapple with a valid point.

Dwarves are hardy, by the way; when terrain isn't to their advantage, they can play the waiting game. Even the elven forests feel the touch of winter. Even the forest can have an underground. Dwarves get to pick their battles, slowly and surely. Their only limitation is digging to the sea. Elven civilization stops at the treeline, for gods' sake. Even city elves and humans live in peril that, at any minute, their city will get swallowed up in the earth from a military-grade ground collapse.

PROTIP: Romans were short, and their primary tactic involved shields and short swords, NOT polearms.

In battle, dwarves are Fantasy Romans.

>>49056134
Because each battlefield is picked and not given.

Dumbass.

>>49056126
Don't get me wrong I'm all for high fantasy, but continuously applying logic eventually just leads to "well fuck it, let's just remove magic altogether". Suspension of disbelief is the way to go

>>49056204
Fantasy doesn't mean you can have lel randumb yellow unicorn in spikey plate armor and expect it to not look retarded.

>>49056151
Good thing usually Dorfs aren't shown with swords either. And Romans used spears as well but let's ignore that fact.

>>49056069
Maybe you should stop using your imagination and live in the real world forever.

That way you can leave the people who like to have fun to their own devices and suffer mediocrity on your own.

>>49055970
fucking punny humans are a joke

>>49056234
Because generic LOTR rip off is not mediocre at all.

>>49056230
>Good thing usually Dorfs aren't shown with swords either.
That's true in literally one game in the universe and no other, and Warhammer Fantasy is dead. D&D dwarves, Tolkien dwarves, Runequest "dwarves", and so on all use swords just fine.

>>49056230
Pilums,

And they didn't work well as melee weapons, more used to break charges.

>>49056260
> Warhammer Fantasy is dead.

Dude, Warhammer depicted Dwarfs with swords. The cover of the Dwarf WFRP sourcebook has a fucking runesword wielding dwarf.

The dwarfs made the runefang swords, too.

>>49056269
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii

as usual /tg/ knows fuck all about history

Well, if you think you can beat a heavily armored mass of muscles and gunpowder chewing stubborn midgets with just "flanking" them. boy your in for a surprise

>>49056221
>missing the point

>>49056164

Isn't that the way most pitched battles went?

>>49056279
>Used by the Manipular legions.
>Not your standard legionnaires anon was referring to.
>Scrapped in 107 BC after 402 year of service.

Real staple of the Roman military there.

>>49056280
Good thing no one said anything about flanking the fucking dwarves.

>>49056311
Yeah they were merely around for 402 years surely they were useless and it's almost as if in real life armies every unit was important or something.

>>49055815
Dwarfs are NOT short humans, they are a different species, just like how elves are NOT humans with pointy ears.

That being the case their anatomy is much tougher then both humans and elves, makes for a hardier warrior to compensate for the height problem.

>>49056288
No, choosing the battlefield was a luxury for most battles. For Dwarves they possibly have no choice but to fight in unstable cave systems as it's either the closest they have to a choke point.

Although in a world were mass teleportation is an option it would be a bit different.

>>49056333
Nice trips but does different anatomy mean ''I'm gonna directly charge a wall of spears and tank them''?

>>49056333
This.

It's not as bullshit as you think. Shit like Orangutans are several times stronger than humans even while being much smaller, and they don't even live underground in a fantasy world.

>>49056324
Rome only had Italy, Sardinia, Corsica and Sicily during that time, and some eventual smaller settlements in North Africa,

Although credit where it's due they were around for the Punic wars but it still doesn't make they the bog standard of the Roman military, which is what the point the original guy made was.

>>49056375
No, it means "I am going to use a big shield, angled so that the spear slides upwards on it, and march forward right under their spears".

>>49056425
Them not they, typo.

>>49056425
>they only had more territory than my shit country will ever hold, it doesn't matter

lmao

>>49056151
You are massively, incredibly wrong. The sword was never the main weapon of the legions, it was always the spear.

>>49056453
I'm English.

>>49056472
Then source it.

Crossbows
Ballistae
Cannons
Tunnels
Traps
Guerilla tactics
Dwarven resilience
War beasts
Magic
Mercenaries

Not all battles are won with spears and phalanxes.

>>49056533
Or just gassing the entire battlefield mid fight.

They're resistant putting them at a significant advantage.

>>49056473
It shows.

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Quick, follow me, Snorri! Before those fucking elves realize you can't flank in tunnels!

>>49056504
Anything about Roman warfare ever written. They used the fucking phalanx as their main strategy until a long fucking time into he age of the imperium. Good swords have always been expensive to manufacture. The concept of he sword as the main weapon in any ancient era is one of the huge lies, the spear has been the main weapon in most eras.

>>49056584
So it should.

Still doesn't deal with the fact you're a nonce who didn't read the other post.

>>49055815
Superior armor and superior toughness. Superior strength means once they get a grip on a polearm, it's theirs.

>>49055907
Ignoring is an overstatement but, yeah, it makes taking a phalanx head-on a viable strategy.

>>49055899
because... heavily armored dwarves are faster than elves?

>>49056615
Indeed the Roman Army didn't use the Gladius widespread until the Marius Reforms, heck their Elite Triarri Veteran Units were all spearmen. Even after the reforms the Auxilia troops used spears and every man would have a pair of Pilum to throw at the enemy and obviously all cavalry units still made extensive use of spears.
*Source
Rome Total War.

>>49056615
Considering that anon's post was clearly referring to legionaries and that means after the Marian reforms, which themselves occurred a good 200 years after the phalanx had been phased out of standard use.

>>49055951
depends on the quality of the armor.

>>49056069
star wars wouldnt have been a success if it had attempted realism. people want escapism, fantasy caters to that.

>>49056092
Still fantasy.

Do people think bringing up the pre Marian Roman Army makes them look smart when it comes to spears vs swords?

Unless specified people talking about Roman military equipment are referring to the late Republic or early/mid Imperial period in the vast majority of cases. Even then only the Triarii used spears as their man weapon, the majority of the army used javelins and/or swords.

>>49056260
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!

>>49056888

Yes, I am aware that Gimli used axes. Thorin, on the other hand, used swords.

>>49056929
that's an ancient battle cry though. axes were the dwarves' main weapon

>>49056092
Low Fantasy is just fantasy that takes place on earth. That's literally the only separation. Any other attempt to separate the two is just arbitrary preference.

>>49055815
>so any phalanx should be able to shit on their infantry.
this is quite the exaggeration

>>49056624
Go back to sucking nigger dick you britfag.

>>49057257
I thought you mentally retarded but then I realized you managed a two syllable word. So, just a dumb cunt.

>>49057351
Go back to being terrorized in your own country by dirkas then relase your anger on local Slavs because you know they won't kill you.

>>49057487
I live in Reading. It's cozy as fuck.

>>49057514
>Reading

what a dumb name it's like calling a town ''Shitting''

also Americans outdid you

This thread is doomed anyway so how about you guys rate my dorf tunnel defensive tactic.
>be defending a tunnel
>first row dorfs have center spiked shields a little taller than they are and shortswords.
>second and third row dorfs have broad halberds.
>other dorfs dump oil on perplexed elf fagots through holes in the ceiling.
>not calling the elves gay (though also true) calling them kindling.
>fire
>enjoy the scent of burning fagots and thanking Mordin for dwarven resistance.

From what I've always understood and employed, was that dwarves are made of tougher stuff. Skin like malleable stone, bones like iron. What they lack in height they have in density.

Elves think they are so cool when they are really just fags

>>49057655
Yes, I've seen the stupid names you call your towns.

Wouldn't say it's outdoing, more fucking up worse.

>>49057659
>setting a fire inside a tunnel

Good job suffocating yourself

The one example I recall of dwarfs with spears is Reaper Miniatures weird not-WHFB game, Warlord.

Who the balls ever said the dwarven army doesn't use spears?
Axes are iconic, just like bows are for elves and the sword and shield is for human knights.
That's like saying because most artwork shows samurai with a katana or arab warriors with scimitar these cultures had no other weapons.
the stout folk are nothing if not practical.

>>49057894
Probably not in tunnel warfare but they'd certainly have spears.

>>49055815
>>49055959
whew lad

>>49057924
Considering the size of dwarven tunnels there's no reason to not be able to use spears. Spears are only really unwieldy in winding rat holes that you can barely stand in, not tunnels meant to take any form of heavy traffic.

>>49057894
Humans in fantasy are retarded

>has full plate
>still uses sword and shield

historically speaking shields went fuck themselves the moment armor got good enough

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>>49056230
They aren't usually shown with bows but they still use them. They aren't shown with spears yet they still can.

>>49058237
Eventually those armor had to be heavier & pricer to deflect stronger bullets though. It wouldn't be so bad for the Dwarves given their smaller size, often greater muscles & crafts.

>>49058125
Was thinking of those tunnels, seeing as those'll be were the miners would want to expand the most.

>>49057659
>Be Drow
>Have slaves dig poorly supported tunnels parralel to Dorf death tunnel
>Collapse tunnels
>Collapse causes roof containing oil Dorfs to collapse on top of death tunnel Dorfs
>If Dorfs try to counter sap they give me a flanking point, or they don't but have to put themselves underneath their oil or they have to put themselves farther back and lose the oil advantage.

>>49056279

The Triarii didn't use pilium, aka javelins that were broken after you threw them, you moron. They fought as a phalanx using a spear as their primary weapon. Using a spear designed to be thrown and the bend/break as a thrusting weapon would be pants on head retarded, but thanks for playing anon.

>>49059235
I'm not that anon and I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your post, but pila could be and sometimes were used as short thrusting spears. Most notably at the battle of Pharsalus, Julius Caesar routed Pompey's cavalry by stopping their charge with pilum-armed legionnaires.

>>49056663
A heavily armoured Dwarf is faster than a heavily armoured Elf at least, since armour doesn't really slow them down.

>>49056668
The Triarii rarely fought during battles. They formed the last line, and most battles were won with just the Hastati and Principes, which used the Gladius for the majority of their existence. They started off with spears as well, but they moved away from those pretty quickly, since a short sword simply works better with heavy armour and large shields than a spear, and Phalanx fights were fucking stupid so they chosen a new tactic to deal with all the spear fighting that was going on at the time.

>>49055815
>How can Dwarfs even win battles against Elves and Humans?
They are usually depicted as technologically more advanced and tougher than most races. Also being avle to march for hours in heavy armor if you go by dnd.

Which for most armies would be a nightmare to deal with. They are slow, sure, but you cant tire one out like one would a normal heavy armor user and if you run they'll make it to you and be less winded than you are.

The other races got their boons that balance it out but you really dont wanna go up against a dwarf seige or battle them for long.

>>49059453
Oh and tgey,ll survive poisons humans wont. Let a few good ones rip and they'll be choking while the dwarves laugh in their tunnels.

>>49059441
A dwarf as slow as everyone else in heavy armor, it's just that they're always that slow, armor or not

>>49059441
>Phalanx fights were fucking stupid
Probably worth clarifying that they fought using an overhand, very outdated style copied from Greek hoplites, that relied on the crush of heavy infantry to win a fight, not the much more effective Macedonian phalanx, which was honestly still a force to be reckoned even after the death of Alexander. Both of those spear-based styles were very unsuited for the rough terrain of Italy/Northern Africa/Western Europe though, and the fact that they relied so heavily on keeping formation is what made them less effective than more flexible, late republican infantry, more so than simply sword>spear.

>>49059453
>this
"The dwarf is fashioned from the very stone he mines. Rocks break at his grasp, iron snaps against their armors, and the dust he breathes is simply nostalgic."