/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo3NXDWBML8
Hip-Hop and WoD? Lets go!

So how long until Onyx "otherkin are our main market" Path are de-licensed by Paradox?

>>49038421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KutXyPEEbQs
>Hunters begin their Vigil

>>49038467
How can otherkin be their main market? The only lines that fit are Werewolf, Beast and maybe Changeling.

>>49038534
It's almost as if he's talking out his ass or something.

>>49038493
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2ZVc2F7Vj4
>Audio recordings found when VASCU raided a suspects home.

>>49038534
>three of the main lines
>for a niche as fuck market as otherkin
And to be a bit more serious there's more otherkin faggots out there than there are nWoD fans. (just check out their kickstarters, barely hitting 3k backers for Core line books when WW used to brag about selling several million)

For Scion-Anon. Is the Aesir PSP still Jotunblut?

>>49038467

Who would you like to see take up the license?

Anyways, pretty much never. Half of the WW team is good friends with the OPP team and he even helped with their GenCon booth. The name change covers pretty much any brand confusion, so there's no need to cut off a source of free money, even if it's only a tiny trickle compared to the millions they'll make with a new Vampire the Masquerade video game.

>>49038590
So...was Apocalypse an otherkin game, too? I mean, Dreaming sure as fuck was, way more than Lost, where the whole point was getting your old life back and surviving what you were changed into, not embracing it.

Fuck Beast, of course.

>>49039056
Apocalypse is way more furry than Forsaken is, that's for sure at least.
What with the "always in the big wolf-man form", the proliferation of the fera, and how the half-animals are better than mankind, but brought down by their all too human flaws.

nWoD changing breeds has this mindset too. There is a reason it's almost universally shunned.

Redpill me on Beast. Why do everyone hates it?

File: Reflection.jpg (206KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 800x600px

>>49039529
Weird concept, horribly executed.

First draft was basically pic related

>>49039529

It has no real setting, no real purpose and is rather flawed in its execution.

Because of the tone the book takes in regards to its antagonist, because of the tone and comments the developer made, because it feels like its justifying abuse.

Because Aspel can't stop trying to defend it, and everyone dislikes Aspel.

>>49039529
Because it turned out to be terrible.

I'm not even in the anti-sjw crowd (which is one motivation for disliking it), and I still think it sucks a big one.

>>49039529
It set its characters up to be villain protagonists and didn't want to own up to it. The justifications made the whole thing unpleasant to read.

>>49039563
>>49039575
>>49039607
Give me some tasty examples. I don't want to buy a book just to laugh at it. I have D&D3.0 already.

>>49039627
And the real heros who actually did nothing wrong are portrayed as bad people.

>>49039630
Note: There was an early version on Kickstarter, which caused the biggest commotion. The final version tried to fix things in a narrow window of time. The results were mixed.

>>49039627
It went from child poisoner the game to child poisoner (ALSO RAPING YOU FOR YOUR OWN GOOD) the game, without actually bothering to make it, you know, fun.

>>49039635

Quoth Matt McFarland, the developer: "ugh you think Heroes did nothing wrong, you must be an MRA? #WhatabouttheHeroes #NotallHeroes"

It's basically a juvenile revenge fantasy about getting back at normal people but that also portrays the people trying to stop you from kidnapping, abusing and murdering people as unequivocally in the wrong.

>>49039529
Bad book, directionless, unrepentant jackass characters who try to excuse their bullshit, fighting villains who are only bad because the book says you wouldn't see the good ones, using powers that can be utter bullshit, and hamfistedly trying to force their way into the overall cosmology.
With no really interesting paraphernalia, or causes over which to fight or argue other than which ways to fuck with people to stay satiated.

However even worse than that, they have the outright gall to claim they're related to every other faction, and were given powers to suit this role as the "crossover splat".
While bar playing with characters who are just as gigantic an asshole as they are, they would likely be shunned by most other factions.

There is nothing good about being a nightmare monster who must at the very least scare people to not drive random people insane with spooky nightmares.

Also the first draft was very persecution-complex, otherkin-ey.

>>49039662
While also drawing some REALLY unflattering conclusions toward the groups it's supposedly analogizing.

"Oh, it's a game where you're the other being unfairly persecuted and bullied, retaking your power and your place in the world!"

"By ACTUALLY being the genuinely evil monster the Heroes accuse you of being, you know, just like all the actual gay and trans and whatnots are ACTUALLY child-raping monsters, the way Focus on the Family claims they are."

"Buy our game, marginalized idiots!"

The sad thing is, I know of at least a couple of people who bought it hook line and sinker, even after all of this was pointed out to them very clearly.

Also they promised you could be a dragon

Fuck Onyx Path

>>49039662
Could you find the source? The quote packs a bigger punch with a source, or at least a screencap.

>>49039692
Yeah, we haven't even gotten into the incredibly poorly designed assrape op powers "GAME BALANCE IS A MYTH" they get.

>>49039704
Or the fact that you're still some loser creepazoid human on the outside, rather than actually getting to play a real, you know, mythical monster type.

How would you do Beast to make it good?

Because the way I see it, it's just an unnecessary book that nobody wanted at this point.

>>49039630
Take every story that has a hero and a monster.

The hero was actually a horrible person violating the laws of nature and the monster was the good guy, Beowulf was basically hittler and murdered a family for no reason. Hercules was an actually trumped up nobody who murdered a bunch of innocent monsters to satisfy a quest that no one wanted done. Saint George was a religious zealot who killed a dragon for no reason than his religion, and what makes it worse is that each of them managed to trick the world into thinking they were right due to their insane self delusion and belief they were.

The rest of the books played with being the monster but trying to keep some humanity in it, this plays with "RAWR I'M A MONSTER AND THATS ALRIGHT FUCK YOU OPPRESSIVE BIGOTED HUMANS I'LL DROWN YOU IN MY ANCIENT POWERS".

>>49039728
>rather than actually getting to play a real, you know, mythical monster type
I mean, I would have tolerated a "physical illusion you can dispel", but not actually BEING the creature, bar certain power usage?

What a boner killer.

If you're going to remove the morality stat, then you might as well let them physically BE the monsters that ate their soul.

>>49039759
And because of it we'll never see Fury: The Scourge

>>49039759
Rewrite the concept to be people with a connection to the Astral, fighting for their beliefs.

Or make them unabashedly, unashamedly monsters. No oppression bullshit, no "woe is me", no decrying Heroes. You are the Dragon that eats knights, you are the Siren who lures men to their Dooms. Fucking own it.

>>49039781
>then you might as well let them physically BE the monsters that ate their soul.
At least we have Mummy.

>>49039759
To be honest just cut out Heroes entirely. Gets rid of the retarded justification/professional victim aspect.

Beasts cause Nightmares to grow their lairs and strengthen their position in their area's Hive. None of that teaching lessons bollocks.

Focus more on the Primordial aspect, where you can be a literal dragon or Titan.

Beast's skeleton is fine, it was just really terribly built on.

>>49039805
>Or make them unabashedly, unashamedly monsters. No oppression bullshit, no "woe is me", no decrying Heroes. You are the Dragon that eats knights, you are the Siren who lures men to their Dooms. Fucking own it.
This. The book should have started with this and moved on to how Beasts reconcile this with their human lives. What it did was moving straight to justifications.

>>49039630
AND they're now the designated "crossover" splat, "designed" to be "easily integrated" and "compatible" with all the other gamelines.

Except they're actually just immune to pretty much all of the other splats' 'outsiders stay out reeee' powers (they're immune to torment, they can tell someone's a changeling just by looking at them, they're immune to arcane and lunacy and pretty much every other defensive/hiding ability), while having broken, poorly designed powers that let them bypass pretty much all the other splats' weaknesses (vampires don't need to drink blood if they have a beast around, frinstance), the other (I'll just keep using 'splats' here) splats feel 'strangely accepting' of Beasts and want to let them in and be their new best friends and not attack them on sight...

...and their 'best buds' attitude is actually a condescending 'older sibling' who speaks down to all the other splats because beasts are ACTUALLY the real true original monsters that all others are pale imitations of and they should know their place which is under them hahaha.

Which makes it even harder to ban them when some asshole wants to play a Beast in a non-Beast game. Fucking hell.

>>49039759
Dunno. Probably like Mummy. You're an OP badass motherfucker but world doesn't need you. You have a position of great power (like dragons in Shadowrun perhaps), but every day you're losing your humanity, becoming the real monster. Maybe paint monsters as necessary evils somehow. Like actual bankers.

>>49039722

>(And, I note, once again Heroes smash their way in here and are all like "not all Heroes!" and "what about the Heroes?")

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?751112-Beast-the-Primordial-teaser-thread&p=18869444#post18869444

>>49039827
>Beast's skeleton is fine, it was just really terribly built on.

Yeah. The Lair stuff is great.

They just need something to DO.

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

>>49039834
>they're immune to arcane and lunacy and pretty much every other defensive/hiding ability

Lunacy and Dissonance never affected non-humans though.

>>49039630

http://podcast.darker-days.org/e/darker-days-radio-episode-72/

Is a good summary as well

>>49039868
Well, I'm not an expert on werewolf or mage, I was trying to remember what they had. Point is, they're immune or just pierce pretty much everything that even applies to other supernaturals.

>>49039892
Yeah. Can't they see through Demon Covers? Or was that some other super?

>>49039838
See, this is good.

My thoughts went like this:
"You are a monster. Odds are you will hurt everyone you love and definitely hurt many other people. The world is better off if you die. You will, too. Either a torches and pitchforks mob or Buffy-the-Beast-slayer will tear you apart, but that's later. What do you do with your life now?"

It's an exact opposite of what the previous Anon said, but both are better than what we got. What did we get? Beats me...

>>49039728
>Game Balance is a Myth powers
What kind of shit are we talking about? I know about the "swing a skyscraper combo" but I didn't know there was more.

>>49040014
Perfect mind control

>>49040014
First Draft had the "You Are Meat" power which made a lot of weird implications about all the game lines

>>49040020
Kind imperfect really. Definitely worse than what Vampires or Mages get. Possibly worse than Changelings, but I know jack about them.

>>49040014
Fist draft of You Are Meat could take away your soul, even if you didn't have one. The only way to get it back was to someone get it back from the Astral. Most characters couldn't so it was an I Win button.

>>49040105
>Fist draft of You Are Meat
A bit misleading to call it a first draft. That implies there is a second.
They flat out deleted it, and there is enough overpowered crap left without it. Going for the one they actually removed makes it look like your argument for Beasts getting overpowered abilities was so weak you had to hit the trash bin looking for stuff to supported.

Why not go for some of the really strong abilities that are still in the book? Like their regeneration and armor powers.

>>49039759
I mentioned this last thread:

Beasts sate their Hunger when people fulfill their Virtue, Vices or Aspirations. Vices are a quick snack, Virtues are a full meal.

So, Beasts have a choice to make; They can set up situations where people are encouraged to follow their Virtue, setting themselves up as the bad guy so people can be better. Or, they can encourage Vice indulgence and get what they want, while making the world shittier.
If they don't sate their hunger, they starve to death.

I'd maybe put in something to do with Aspirations sating Hunger as well.

Heroes have either a Virtue or Vice which is "Slay Beasts". This makes them handy for Beasts to bait along as a constant source of nourishment, but obviously dangerous.

>>49039575

There are people that like Aspel. Their problem is that they've never found an Internet fight they didn't want to drag out and they don't actually finish their work. Other than those they're decent I guess.

>>49039703

>Buy our game, marginalized idiots

If nothing else, I can use Beast as starting point for a conversation about how the noble goal of heightened representation in media could end up leading to some seriously bad unintended messages, and how future steps at representation can try to avoid these missteps. I think it's ultimately fine for marginalized people to be presented as monsters and villlains, but tying that identity to their inherent monstrousness like the first draft attempts to do was maybe not the best idea. Clive Barker did it OK, though, Cabal and Nightbreed is basically Beast But Better.

>>49038671
No, it is Wyrd. Which is about the dark fate your pantheon is locked into a runic magic and shit.

>>49031856
>So will Deviant end up being the first actual splat with ZERO cosmology impact.
Vampire doesn't really have that much of an impact, either.

>Promethean comes pretty close, mind you. The Divine Fire and The Principle are both a bit of a shit, and no one seems to care that they exist EXCEPT prometheans.
You've got it completely backwards. The Principle cares only about Prometheans because it sees every one of them as a tabula rasa that it can mold into a human. The book even offers the possibility that the Principle is an older incarnation of the God-Machine. Who knows? It might even be its biggest subsystem, the one responsible for the creation of souls, which naturally springs to action when a being that should have a soul but doesn't appears.

>>49039529
Because even after the revision, the whole "Beasts are trying to impart lessons to humanity" schtick is nothing more than a lie that destructive, violent, degenerate monsters tell themselves to justify their abhorrent actions. And somehow, Heroes who want to put an end to it are crazy, not because the Beasts are not monsters after all or anything, but because they just are! They are Heroes, NOT Hunters, mom, get it right. They are going about the same thing, except TOO much, and that makes them WRONG. Get it?

>>49039912
If I remember correctly, Demon explicitly mentioned that demons/angels and parts of God Machine can't be detected even by supernatural means (without a specific perk). That's one of the reasons God Machine stuff feels so standalone and detached from other WoD books.

>>49040601
No. I'm certain there was one super who could see through covers with 0 effort.
And this terrified the Unchained.

I am pretty certain it is in the crossover chapter of Demon STG.

File: Geist.jpg (81KB, 667x1000px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 667x1000px

I have officially decided on my Scion character for 2e based on what I asked last night about the Algonquian and my wallet is ready to throw money at the Kickstarter.

I'm going to ask here again because it went unresponded in the last thread:

Are there mimics, or anything similar to mimics, in WoD? I have a great story idea and want to include them.

File: 12323534612.jpg (111KB, 454x248px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 454x248px

>>49040675
Hairy female hands are my fetish.

>>49040687
Pandorans from Promethean?

>>49040687
>>49040715
Huntsmen.

>>49040687
Pandorans

What's your idea

>>49040687
Or a random Hobgoblin from Changeling.

>>49040665
Found it: Quashmallim.
So I suppose it's fine then.

>>49040715
>>49040728
>>49040739
>>49040740
I'm playing a one on one campaign with a friend, and want to give him companions in interesting and creative ways. My plan is to give him an ancient chest guarded by a strange lock, which when he unlocks it becomes a party member.

Since it's a one-on-one with my best friend I'll let him get as magical realmy as he wants describing his characters, so this lets him improvise on how they look.

Can a Demon's cover be a Ghoul?

>>49040777
Make it a Hobgoblin then

>>49040789
The demon can drink vampire blood, and can probably mimic being bound to the vampire/having ghoul powers.

>>49040777
>>49040818
A Hobgoblin would be best. You make them the following way:
Make something bonkers. Call it a Hobgoblin.

>>49040958
Yeah, I thought that since Ghouls are much less changed than Wolf Bloods, and they can retain their powers as supers...

How broken would it be to allow any living being to become a Ghoul?

>>49041039
I wasn't really thinking the demon would have ghoul powers, more that if it knew what a ghoul did it could try to imitate it using embeds and exploits

I've got an idea for a new changeling kith for second edition but I am unsure how to word the blessing so it would make sense and not be longer than blessings of other kiths.

Splittwins, individual divided literally into two by True Fae during their Durance. Splittwins might be one human's optimisms and pessimism, id and superego, or logic and emotion, separated into two changelings that can act as one whole. Their blessing should probably let them act separate without breaking the mask.

>>49040675
And it is...?

>>49040328
Well thank fuck for that. Jotunblut was absolute trash, and I'm glad to see it go.

>>49040746
>>49040665
>>49040601
Demons can also get fucked over by Beasts' Family Resemblance, relatively easily actually. Look on page 89 of Beast.

File: Lex Magica of Boston.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

Hey dudes, I've written up a Lex Magica for a Mage game set in Boston. post Nemean getting sent to mind-prison. Anything I've forgotten?

>>49038590
>beast and changeling
>main lines

>>49041773
They are more main than Second Sight. I guess he means they are their own full splat or something.

>>49041317
Newscion here still reading through Hero, what is PSP and why are Gods roaming around with a Sony handheld?

Whats the population ratio of beasts in any particular area?

>>49041847
Zero in all the games worth playing : ^)

>>49041825
As someone who also hasn't played Scion before, presumably it's a community abbreviation for something like "primary spellcasting purview"
I don't fuckin know

>>49041847
Take your average number of trans-people. Replace them with beasts.

Done.

>>49041847
Depends. More chambers = more Beasts as there's more options to expand their Lairs.

>>49041895
pantheon specific purview.

>>49041940
I should've been able to guess that.

>>49041940
Holy shit, jotunblut is awful. Why would you even want a human thrall as a Scion when you could just get some type of magical follower or something?

>>49042046
Which is why it is gone, I suspect.

File: martin.jpg (4KB, 212x76px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 212x76px

>>49038343

Little amusing fact for anyone who cares; My friend knows Martin Shkreli and played a game of VTM with him. He played a tremere.

>>49042219
Is he as scummy in games as in public dealings?

>>49041151
Sounds WAY too powerful for a blessing. I like the concept, but you're essential getting to play two characters, which, even if done for a short while, is a power ripe for abuse. I'd either put a hefty price tag on it, which kinda goes against the concept of a blessing, or really tone it down. Honestly, doubling up like that sounds more like a Contract than a Blessing.

>>49042239

He plays Tremere :^)

>>49042219
Seems like the sort of game that dude would play.

>>49042270
What kind of blessing would you then give to the kith?

>>49042280

Well, he's an ebin memer, so of course he'd go on 4chan and if he has an interest in video games or /tg/ games, he'd eventually find out about vtm/vtm:b and could perhaps become interested in it, so it's not that surprising.

I can ask my friend more about it if you want.

>>49042219
>Martin Shkreli
I had to google who he was.

I thought he was going to jail.

File: martin.png (10KB, 482x172px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 482x172px

>>49042274

>>49042294
Maybe something that reinforces the "split into two" concept, but not quite so much that each half can run about separately. One idea is that, given a relatively safe environment (i.e. not being currently gunned down), you may take two extended actions at the same time with no penalty. If they split, the twins should be appropriately powered down (maybe lose Skills or have very weak attributes?) I just don't like the concept of two fully-fledged changelings of one mind running about. Just feels too OP. But then again, I might be wrong.

>>49041895
Pantheon Specific Power

>>49039834
>
Except they're actually just immune to pretty much all of the other splats' 'outsiders stay out reeee' powers (they're immune to torment, they can tell someone's a changeling just by looking at them, they're immune to arcane and lunacy and pretty much every other defensive/hiding ability), while having broken, poorly designed powers that let them bypass pretty much all the other splats' weaknesses (vampires don't need to drink blood if they have a beast around, frinstance), the other (I'll just keep using 'splats' here) splats feel 'strangely accepting' of Beasts and want to let them in and be their new best friends and not attack them on sight...

>they're immune to torment
Think you mean Disquiet. Them and technically demons are immune(demons can pretend). Then again people with high willpower are also pretty much immune.

> they can tell someone's a changeling just by looking at them
When in the presence of a fully supernatural creature they get to make a Wits + Occult + Lair – target’s Composure roll. If they are using a power for hiding, they have to do Clash of Wills first. If they fail this roll they see someone and realize there is something familiar about them, learning nothing beyond that.

>(vampires don't need to drink blood if they have a beast around, frinstance),
Could not find that power. Page number please?

>'strangely accepting' of Beasts and want to let them in and be their new best friends and not attack them on sight...
They get a "no context" good impression(neutral for mages) of other splats for social maneuvering. Other splats are faster to fall to beasts deals at the beginning. If you have ever used social maneuvering before you know that your impressions can change over the course of play. This power lets them get their foot in the door.

>>49042526
I am perfectly fine with two having split attributes/skills and/or having to be in one closed space.
It could require that any mortals present must be able to see the mein?

>>49042419

Not surprising whatsoever. Hope he liked the game though.

>>49040284
>There are people that like Aspel.
Unfortunately, often as horrid as Aspel themselves.

>>49042747

>vampires don't need to drink blood if they have a beast around, frinstance

Huh, that's the first I heard of that. Sure it's not the other way around?

>>49043159
thats what I asked.
I know if a vampire HUNTS then the beast can use Family Dinner, but I never heard of a way for beasts to feed his friends.

>>49041165
A scion of jiibayaabooz with a cool scar and fights with a wolf spirit/physical companion. maybe a bow and arrow.

that's about all I got so far but he's just floating around in my head waiting to be fleshed out more. probably a better young man on a reservation if I want to go full stereotype or maybe only half-native living in affluence and yearnign for something more engaging

>>49043602
though I am a white dude so I dont know if I'll be able to properly write/play a native american

>>49043671
you'll be fine. native american culture is so dead not even the red skins can "properly" play it.

>>49040675

I had a character concept in mind, but with the Incarnate Genesis pushed all the way back to God she'll have to wait a long while.

>>49042830
Maybe something like:
>Once per chapter while only in presence of people who can splittwins' mein, Splittwins may step apart creating two independent character for duration of the scene. Split Splittwins' Attributes between the two splinters. After the scene ends or character unable to see Splittwins' mein enters, splinters are forced instantly back together.

>>49043671
just do some research you'll be fine.

>>49043953
Sorry for numerous typos in that one.
It's also perfectly justifiable that Splittwins can't be separated because they could have only escaped Duress as one whole, and their blessing would allow them to do some other duality based thing.
Would being able to join two Courts be too much?

>>49042747
>When in the presence of a fully supernatural creature they get to make a Wits + Occult + Lair – target’s Composure roll.
no
Detecting a vampire, werewolf, changeling, or other full-
fledged supernatural being is relatively easy for a Beast and
happens reflexively if the Beast is physically in their presence.
Success is automatic unless the target is hiding her nature by
supernatural means, in which case the Beast must win a Clash
of Wills before using Family Resemblance.

>>49044248
Are you guys... arguing? Because, isn't that sort of what he just said?

The topic was identifying changelings. The roll happens if a supernatural is hiding their presence. Changelings are always automatically hiding their presence unless they make efforts to drop their mein.

Therefore, in the presence of a Changeling, a Beast would roll Wits + Occult + Lair - Composure to sense the Changeling.

>>49042747
>Could not find that power. Page number please?
not sure if this is it but
if a beast decides their lair has a lake of blood in it, they can share that with the vampire and it counts

>>49043826
You can probably kludge something together once we have the rules in hand.

>>49043671
It's cultural appropriation, you shoulden't even consider it.

>>49044295
>Are you guys... arguing? Because, isn't that sort of what he just said?
not quite
it doesn't always require a roll to do (it's an automatic success unless a power is used)
and changeling mask is not considered a power, it's a passive ability
(they can strnegthen their mask, which would cause clash of wills)

>>49044340

I've got a weird thing about not really liking houserules. I'm fine with waiting though, it's not like I'll be playing Scion anytime soon.

>>49042747
>Wits + Occult + Lair – target’s Composure roll
That's gonna be a ridiculously easy roll, isn't it?

>>49044349
Are you an idiot?

>>49044423
Are you supporting cultural appropriation, blackface, and racial fetishization?

>>49044439
yes. these things are moral goods.

File: WET_MOON__Mara_10_by_mooncalfe.jpg (230KB, 624x850px) Image search: [Google]

230KB, 624x850px

>>49044439
>racial fetishization?
Hell yeah.

>>49044439
Are you supporting writers only write their own race? Idiot.

>>49044510
Writing is not acting.

>>49044536
And he's talking about writing and playing a character in A TABLETOP GAME. The WHOLE POINT IS TO PLAY SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT.

>>49044510
It was probably sarcasm, anon.

>>49044536
thank you for seeing my side, too many bigots here
>>49044577
he's not talking about writing, he's talking about acting
and there's difference between playing a vampire and playing a native american shaman

>>49044610
anon why are you trying to suppress the moral good inherent to racial fetishization, blackface, and cultural appropriation? these are positive things. the world needs more of them.

>>49044610
You're a fucking idiot. There is literally no point in continuing this.

>>49044610
>and there's difference between playing a vampire and playing a native american shaman

Both are equally fictional

>>49044379
I'd invite you to play but don't want to add another body to the game I run that isn't someone I've gamed with before, especially with unfamiliar rules for us all to figure out.

>>49044781

It's fine. I work retail, so the nect four months are going to be scheduling hell.

Thanks, though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXBGZoBYaLY

Reminder that white people make everything better

File: image.jpg (69KB, 442x550px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 442x550px

When 2E came out I got unreasonably butthurt and switched to playing Shadowrun, now I can't let go of cyberpunk. If I come back to WoD and ditch my hateblog should I just cut my losses and play Demon the Descent even though it's 2E? Or should I abandon all hope and keep playing Shafowrun/wishing there were more people on the planet than just me who played Demon the Fallen?

>>49045027
Why did you get butthurt? 2E as been mostly good so far.

>>49045027
They added guides on making conditions in some of the books now. Just in case that was an issue.

File: image.gif (45KB, 500x400px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 500x400px

>>49045073
Because change is bad and I'm an old faggot. Legitimately though, the opening up of freeform vices and virtues irked me, I don't like these newfangled condition cards, and Beast just looked like a goddamn trainwreck. I want my Catholic Cult Simulator back.
Also I'm older, The culture of RPGs has changed somewhat. I miss the pulpy gonzo that Vampire and Werewolf and Demon had back in Classic WoD, and Shadowrun's filling that gap for me. NWoD strayed from that also but I liked the idea of a more narrative horror game at first, now some of their concepts and rearranging of their rules have just turned me off.

>>49044510
Pretty much!

>>49045185
I can agree on Beast, Vices and Virtues, but conditions aren't bad once you get used to it. What do you mean by Catholic Church simulator?

>>49045185
The mechanical changes between 2e and 1e are so minimal, truly, that getting flustered over them is ridiculous. We're talking about changes to combat (that had already been introduced), XP, virtue/vice, and codified conditions and tilts. And concepts? Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage are conceptual the exact same fucking thing as they were in 1e.

Not liking Beast is reasonable, and any sane person should not like Beast, but if you don't like one line then don't play. Don't forsake the entire second edition because more narrative power in the hands of players gives you heart palpitations.

File: image.jpg (163KB, 696x504px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 696x504px

>>49045248
Catholic *Cult Simulator. DtF.

If I were to make a Changeling as a Shadow expy, how would I best go about it? Smoke Contracts and Fear court yes, but anything else?

>>49045429
For reference, I'm talking about The Shadow from the old pulps, not Shadow the Edgehog or anything.

>>49038590
>Beast
>A main line

>>49045185

Speaking from personal experience, I haven't changed nearly at all from 1e to 2e.

Virtues and Vices can be what ever you want. If want the old system and tell your players, a lot of people will still go for it.

Conditions are short hand modifiers with a maybe 1 beat gift for letting them screw you or resolving them. Note card with "Darkness Motherfucker; you can't see shit" with some bonuses below it and a blurb about not seeing shit is a viable condition.

Beast can be fun. As someone who ST'ed beast all I can say is it was harder to run the 1e mage. Might be just me.

The new Chronicle of Darkness book is nice despite what some people say. The section on horrors is wonderful. Yes it has GM angels as an option you can ignore. Yes people are enraged that word count was given to the GM at all.

Exalted and Masquerade get official twitch streams. Are there also some CofD streams?

>>49045755

Nope.

>>49045185
I want to do cocaine with an elf

Would a kith with a blessing that allowed Changeling be part of two courts simultaneously be too strong?

>>49046633
I guess I could see something like an "Actor" Kith having a power like that, being able to move around dots in social merits equal to Wyrd with a point of Glamour or something.

But a Kith specifically built around being a part of two Courts at the same time? Sounds silly, especially as it's said you can only bear one Court's Mantle. Just take the Court Good Will merit if you want a connection to more than one Court.

>>49046633
How would that work? I mean, courts are political institutions most of all.

>>49047051
>>49047156
Based this on one of ideas for the splittwins kith suggested higher in the thread. With two-in-one approach it wouldn't be impossible to imagine that splinters could have opposite court miens and it would play into duality of individual.

>>49047262
The question still remains, how would that have arisen in Arcadia?

Splitting yourself in half in such a way, and having both halves support and have sworn themselves to different Courts, who have entirely different perspectives on life, must be catastrophically destructive to Clarity.

Honestly I'd just play a separate, complete PC, and have his "splinter" as a moderate rating, True Friend Retainer. Dropping the idea of the kith being centered around being two people altogether.

My Mentor is a hermit in his Island Sanctum with no telephone access. How can I contact him for advise. It will take a few days just to travel to his island from where the Chronicle is set. I don't have Space Magic to easily go there. Any ideas?

>>49047382
Maybe make that the Kith benefit? You get the True Friend Retainer Advantage for free, and can "summon" your Retainer at any point (potentially by spending Glamour), but you must split your attribute points in order to do so.

>>49046633

There's already a merit for that.

So... is the story about why Werewolves are weak to silver just outright a lie?

All evidence seems to point to them not actually knowing the true story.

Like, War Against the Pure has every other shifter type also being weak to silver.
Dark Eras has them being weak to silver BEFORE they would have been cursed by Luna.

I think there is a third one I'm missing.

Is this just... laziness on the part of WW/OP? They wanted the silver myth for balance, but can't figure out why it would exist?

>>49049887
CofD/NWoD is a toolkit. Your protagonists don't have to know the ONE TRUE REASON that their weakness is their weakness. Jesus H. Fucking Christ.

>>49050065
Yeah except this is pretty glaringly wrong. At least Vampire made up reasons for all the vampire myths that don't hold true. Werewolves on the other hand just have major parts of their myth that don't hold true, and you would imagine some time of investigation would at least hold them to question it.

They don't, they are pretty universal in thinking that the silver curse has the one origin. There aren't multiple possibilities here.

Also, fuck you for trying to stamp down conversation. What do you want, more talk of genderfluidness and safe spaces? Suck a dick.

>>49050135

A decent chunk of the CofD's lore is contradictory.

>>49050135
>>49049887

The lore of CofD isn't something that's cut and dry. There is no unified cosmology, there is no true origin story for various aspects of things, and no one is ever going to find out the truth (in the books anyways).

All that matter is that Werewolves are weak to silver, and The Pure especially so, no matter what kind of explanation the Uratha choose to have about it this century.

>>49050306
>>49050155
Not being able to get a cut and dry answer is not a reason not to inspect it. It is sort of the opposite. You may not be able to figure out a true answer, but the theories of what may actually be true can be great plot hooks, both for an arc or for lore focused characters.

So, what.the.hell is up with the silver weakness?

>>49049887
>>49050135
Werewolves in general think it comes from Luna, but Dark Eras shows us that it doesn't
That doesn't mean the myth has anything to do with balance; it's primarily done to keep with that one particular myth about werewolves, much like Vampire keeps with the sun being their biggest weakness.

It still comes from Luna, just not as an intended curse; the only thing Werewolves have in common with the other shifter races is that they're all descended from Luna and another Spirit God, and they share both shapeshifting and a weakness to Silver as a result(probably)

>>49050436
While it seems like plenty of shifters have relation to spirit gods and such, whether through curses or not, not all of them are related to Luna. So I can't see that being the case.

But it could be something related to spirit stuff.

>>49050436
>>49050550
Aren't supernatural beings weak to cold steel in general? Isn't silver just a form of cold steel, but blessed?

>>49050600
Naw, Changelings and True Fae hate cold iron, but I don't think there is a general weakness to cold steel.

>>49050600
Cold steel doesn't do shit to anybody, as far as I know.
>>49050550
>not all of them are related to Luna.
I thought they were?
Even the sun-bulls, afaik, are Luna and Helios's children.

>>49039201
Also don't forget that in Apocalypse if you weren't dog-raping, you weren't trying. Wolf-fucking was considered morally and spiritually superior.

>>49050762
>>49050624
I'm mixing up cold steel with cold iron. Now I'm really curious about the silver weakness. There's legends of even witches getting their shit rocked by a silver bullet in one of the Grimm fairytales.

>>49050781
>1990s
>he doesn't fuck dogs
s m h t b h f a m

>>49050807

In real life folklore, silver weaknesses crop up because silver is a pure, clean metal that's very shiny.

so I see someone was mad that I was considering playing a native american character, is that genuinely cultural appropriation or are they justt epic trolling

>>49050371

Play to find out.

>>49050864
>is that genuinely cultural appropriation

Probably.

>>49050762
>Even the sun-bulls, afaik, are Luna and Helios's children.
the sun bulls are pangeans like werewolves, children of Bull and someone else
they were adopted by the sun after bulls death

>>49050864

It looked like trolling to me, but then again someone on tumblr called me out for 'fetishizing and appropriating ancient Egyptian culture,' so who knows. I try to be extremely mindful of all that, but especially on fucking 4chan I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

I don't know a lot about any Native cultures other than my grandmother collected kachina dolls. What was your character concept again?

>>49050920
>but then again someone on tumblr called me out for 'fetishizing and appropriating ancient Egyptian culture

desu you kind of do

>>49049887
>All evidence seems to point to them not actually knowing the true story.
Do you know why you have five fingers instead of six?

Likely its a side effect of being part spirit. Spirits have bans.

>>49050920
In their defense, I'm pretty sure you've masturbated to egyptian lore based stuff before. But then again, who hasn't.

>>49050947
A spirit ban that applies to a vast majority of people that shapeshift?

>>49050937

I'm not sure you can appropriate a culture 1500 years dead, but that's neither here nor there.

>>49050969
i mean, you can try. but you're going to be way off

It's a TOOLBOX guys

>>49050966
Just werewolves.

The background was diffrent in 1e and 2e. We don't know what 2e shape changers are like.

In 1e it's cuz Luna is god of shape changers. If you're part spirit and a shape changer, silver is your ban.

>>49050981
That's not an excuse for contradictions in shit people are supposed to be able to use.

>>49049887
Maybe Luna cursed them so hard that it applied retroactively?

File: walk_like_an_egyptian500w.jpg (52KB, 499x426px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 499x426px

>>49050969

>>49043671
get drunk on lysol and be poor

File: 20130921_190802.jpg (760KB, 2448x3264px) Image search: [Google]

760KB, 2448x3264px

>>49050913
I mean I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway, but what am I allowed to play as in my tabletop games?

aren't creators supposed to embrace diversity now?

>>49050920
a descendant of ojibwe first nation people as well as some blood from makah people of pacific northwest? debating on that . scion parent is jiibayaabooz and that's literally the only thing I have set in stone re: him.

he's native (or half native if that makes it "better" for me to write/play as) and is a descendant of a trickster deity. that's the whole concept so far.

I'm strongly feeling he'll have a canine companion. he'll either be a slick talking man that climbed his way out of the less than stellar living conditions typically associated with his people or grew up hilariously wealthy and yearned for some adventure.


If it helps my case at all, I'm close friends with a professor of indigenous studies at my university that I plan on counseling with if I pursue this character concept and the professor is in fact an indigenous person

>>49050997
>retroactive curse
That... could actually make sense. I mean we talk about the G-M getting so strong that it spreads back in time, a spirit god with a powerful enough curse might be able to do something like that.

It would probably hurt time a bit when it happened, but that was a tumultuous time in general, full of lots of crazy magic going on.

A little confusing for the original werewolves mind you.

>>49051121

Nobody is going to kick down your doors and arrest you for playing anything, anon. The fact that A) you're worried about doing it right and B) doing more than saying "he's a badass Apache brave with a tomahawk" makes me believe you're perfectly fine and probably have a fun character on your hands. That you would pick up Scion and not immediately spring for the Theoi or Aesir because they're familiar and white (or like that guy on the forums who keeps making Teotl serial killers) gives me full confidence in you.

>>49051005
>>49050937
See the problem with appropriating is that you're usually making money or gaining something off of that culture.

I'm not sure how any person from a race or ethnic background can play a character from another without being called out for "having a fetish" and appropriating it. Especially in a role playing game about supernatural beings and being sired by them. You're asking for someone to just ignore a good portion of the pantheons because they aren't a part of their culture.

tl;dr: tumblr is weird and they take things way too seriously when there is no need.

>>49051234
There's a diference between playing a character of another race/culture and developing an online (and I suspect IRL) persona devoted to roleplaying it at all times and forming opinions on basically everything through a lens of that culture

atamajakki is the latter

>>49051177
>badass Apache brave with a tomahawk

god of course not, apache was like southwest thats the exact opposite area of the algonquian group of people.

I'm not super well versed in the subject, I've only had two courses and a few for fun reading on the subject but I'm really looking forward to this character for further exploration of the subject material.

the only downside to this is I don't know jack shit about what sort of birthrights he'd have because most of my knowledge is the pacific northwest coast and the whaling culture with the first nation peeps up there.

oh well, it'll give me a lot to read up and think about.

>>49051262
Naw, there definitely is a difference, but tell that to people who would actually grab pitchforks.

There's a difference between appropriation and appropriate use of another's culture. Anon creating his Scion is doing his due diligence to learn the lore and create a character that isn't an offensive character, I'm suspecting.

>>49051278
Did someone threaten you, anon?

DID SOMEONE THREATEN YOU WITH A PITCHFORK!?

>>49051360
cultural appropriation doesn't require offense
the problem is you're taking a real culture and making light of it for your own entertainment
>>49051234
>See the problem with appropriating is that you're usually making money or gaining something off of that culture.
that's just wrong

>>49051431
not yet

>>49051494
>>49051431
BUt it could happen at any moment! Which on 4chan means it has happened millions of times somewhere!

>>49051516
We must arm ourselves with pitchforks pre-emptively, whilst taking care not to appropriate the culture of 15th century god-fearing peasant mobs

>>49051516
All the time, forever.

>>49051278

Sounds like fun, anon! I think we're confirmed to be getting an Intuit Pantheon at some point with hopefully some other Native American ones down the road; I think Plains was mentioned as well.

I'm excited for Scion 2e to give me the motivation to dig into the mythologies I've never really read about before.

>>49051552
>getting an Intuit Pantheon

shit, really? that like throws my whole plan off cause then I'll really just want to wait for that...

but mr.algonquian will be really cool regardless and I can't wait to make him then commission art of him and spam him like I do my kindred and bound.

what's your intended character concept for scion 2e?

>>49049887
It's a Bane, like all other Pangaean's have.

Post your tumblr guys, so we can all be tumblr friends

>>49051619

I was going to make an Incarnate Scion of Azar/Osiris/Wesir/whatever spelling they wind up using, whose whole thing is a queer reimagining of that myth as "the king must abandon masculinity before becoming god of the underworld," with a gender journey analogue attached to the process of rising in Legend and becoming a God.

>>49051637
So was Father wolf weak to silver?

That wasn't his bane, and it isn't Luna's bane (or Father Helios bane). So...just out of nowhere? And also for some reason the bane of other shapeshifters just because?

Not to say that isn't a good answer.

>>49049887
>Is this just... laziness on the part of WW/OP? They wanted the silver myth for balance, but can't figure out why it would exist?
Or maybe that was intentional and they wanted to call into question several setting assumptions, like "the weakness to Silver is a curse by Luna" and "Urfarah was a Spirit".

File: Have Fun.jpg (75KB, 309x473px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 309x473px

>I was going to make an Incarnate Scion of Azar/Osiris/Wesir/whatever spelling they wind up using, whose whole thing is a queer reimagining of that myth as "the king must abandon masculinity before becoming god of the underworld," with a gender journey analogue attached to the process of rising in Legend and becoming a God.

>>49051644

I'll give you one guess.

>>49051727
Thanks captain obvious.

>>49051713
>So was Father wolf weak to silver?
FW's bane was his children.

Luna is god of shape changers, all shape changers have her bane of silver.

But the background of WW changed (a little) from 1e to 2e.

1e, the bull people are children of Lashar (former helion) and Luna.

2e they're children of Bull the Pangean.

>>49051754
Is Luna's bane silver?

>>49051788
No one knows, but it is one of her influences.

>>49051788
We simply don't know
We have literally no stats for her at all, because it's a case of "if you stat it, they will kill it"
If it's not, though, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that Silver is the bane of Luna's children because it's the metal most closely linked with her, in a "dying by your parent's sword" sort of way

>>49051689
Osiris, but if you want to make Mummy references I doubt too many people will complain.

File: burgundy pookawitch.jpg (613KB, 692x1000px) Image search: [Google]

613KB, 692x1000px

Scion Anon here, first PC for my game turned in is a party girl, globe trotting Scion of Dionysus. Things looking up so far.

>>49052194
The tats are a nice touch.

My scion is gonna be a genderswaped genderfluid genderqueer genderunknown transexual reversexual khornite demiboygirl

>>49052194
what's her birthrights?

>>49052220
that's really dumb

>>49052198
Yeah, its just art from some random artist but fits the concept well enough. The actual idea is somewhere between Paris Hilton (a party girl famous because she's from a rich family) and Indiana Jones (If Paris Hilton went on awesome adventures).

>>49052222
Not finished sheet yet, player is crashing so we're only half done. They're just the most well formed and confirmed idea of the bunch so far. I'm trying to push for a bitching magic wine goblet, but that's a bit on the nose and will probably be out done.

>>49052235
Yeah, I mean a Khornite scion? A little much.

>>49052235
Triggered, stop raping me

>>49052261
Never.

>>49052252
I mean, what else would she get from dionysius

>>49052282
Syphilis

>>49052282
I don't know. He's a party god, but also a father. Maybe a hair pin or clasp or something to look fancy. Or a gun. Guns are all the rage in the World this century, right?

>>49052252

Go for the satyr legs!

This thread's weird

>>49052320
You're weird!

>>49052305
Does Scion actually offer physical deformities? If so, neat.

>>49052345
one of the example PCs in 1e eventually had his rib cage always open and his heart on fire

>>49052302
tattoo birthright made from magic grape pigment ink

>>49052305
Satyr horsecock.

On more serious note just do it, faggot!

>>49052363
>rib cage always open and his heart on fire
Fucking metal.

>>49052363
>tattoo birthright made from magic grape pigment ink
That's actually a really good idea, I'll suggest it.

Next final PC idea but no sheet yet is a Scion of Hades who is a private eye. The noir is strong with this one. Also the Theoi seem to be dominating ideas, not sure why.

>>49052261
If saying "stop" meant anything it wouldn't be a rape, now would it? Bite the pillow.

>>49052236
>Paris Hilton by way of Indiana Jones
That's so stupid.
Tell me more

>>49052236
>somewhere between Paris Hilton (a party girl famous because she's from a rich family) and Indiana Jones (If Paris Hilton went on awesome adventures).
Lara Croft?

>>49052392
he was apart of the aztec pantheon and generally a bretty cool dude. scion had good fiction in the books too; pirate 1e hero and read through the first fiction.

>>49052395
>That's actually a really good idea, I'll suggest it

thanks man, I appreciate it. I like thinking of unique birthrights and relics and related shit but I have absolutely no idea what to do for my scion of ghost rabbit.

are they all theoi in your band?

>>49052345

I know Extra Arms for the Indian Pantheon has been tossed out there, so I would assume so.

>>49052426
I thought that but don't think the player has ever played an old or new Tomb Raider game so think it is coincidence.

>>49052410
Their mother fucked Dionysus at some point. Her mother and adoptive mortal father were old money and did their best to hide their shame, but as she got older she developed a blatant party girl nature. So they responded with military academies, boarding school, and generally being shitty rich parents. She's an adult now, has met her real father, and basically is on a goal to party and see the whole of the world while not at all being displeased by tabloid attention that may make her parents who raised her uncomfortable.

The game pitch is barebones at the moment till I have more sheets in, but amounts to 'A famous archaeologist and all his crew went missing in Nepal looking for Shambala. Why are YOU there looking into their disappearance?' and will refine and expand as more sheets get handed in.

>>49052428
Two out of four so far. I know one other guy is thinking Egyptian Scion of Bastet, and I hope the last one goes nuts and is a Scion of Tezcatlipoca or one of the Manitou or something totally different.

>>49052428
>tfw you want to do an all-Netjer game about rebels and punks who are all opposed to both the mortal systems of oppression and the divine traditionalism of Maat
>but you don't have a group for anything, let alone Scion, and especially not a niche Scion game

I'll just keep doing Red Markets stuff and weep

>>49052329
Good rebuttal.

New to CofD in it's entirety. Been reading a few books (Beast, Prometheans, and Geist specifically) and I had a few questions about Beast.

1. Beasts find other potential beasts while sating the Hunger or is the the pre-Beast attracting the Beast to them?

2. Heroes are uncontrollable beasts that attack their own kind? Is that what I'm understanding?

3. Is most "Combat" done through dreams? Do Beasts have the ability to reveal their Horror in a physical space?

4. Heroes, being the antagonists, all have been touched by a Beast, but released early due to their own volition. Does that mean that hunters are actually Heroes because they got out before they turned into a beast?

5. What can a Beast do if attacked outside of their Lair? How do you drag someone into your Lair?

It's late, most of these are probably answered in the book, but any clarification would be greatly appreciated

>>49052547
>1. Beasts find other potential beasts while sating the Hunger or is the the pre-Beast attracting the Beast to them?
I'm not sure what you're asking about. Do you mean the Devouring? It's sort of like an Embrace, except that you could have a Horror that was inside you all along. I'm actually not really sure how it works when another Beast Devours you. Do they give you their Horror? Does the Horror "bud" like a freakish deep sea fungus?

>2. Heroes are uncontrollable beasts that attack their own kind? Is that what I'm understanding?
Heroes have the same source as the Beast (the Primordial Dream), but they're two sides of the same coin, not the same thing. There are non-crazy Heroes, but since that was basically a last minute edition, there's not much said about them other than that they tend to be therapists and actual Heroes instead of self-appointed ones. They're also not really "uncontrollable" so much as driven to kill by the urge to prove themselves and in some respects sate their own Hunger.

>>49052547
>3. Is most "Combat" done through dreams? Do Beasts have the ability to reveal their Horror in a physical space?
You can do shit like fireballs and murderclaws in the real world. Atavisms are "real" while Nightmares are essentially mental powers and dangerous hallucinations based on both general fears and humanity's inherent terror of the things lurking at the fringes of the World of Darkness.

>4. Heroes, being the antagonists, all have been touched by a Beast, but released early due to their own volition. Does that mean that hunters are actually Heroes because they got out before they turned into a beast?
No. Heroes being Heroes doesn't actually have anything to do with Beasts. The ones that do try to kill you, though, tend to feel the ripples of your actions in the Primordial Dream; i.e. you using your Nightmares and messing around with interior decorating your Lair. I'm not sure what you mean by "released early".

>5. What can a Beast do if attacked outside of their Lair? How do you drag someone into your Lair?
All of their Atavisms and Nightmares can be used outside of their Lairs. This is actually a bit of a problem because Heroes have some of the most boring powers imaginable. "Get dice bonuses on a weapon" and "have minions" and things like that. And I'll admit I haven't read the whole book, but if I recall you can basically overlay your Lair on top of an area, unleashing your nightmare realm on people.

Also, which version of Promethean are you reading? Because the second edition of that one just came out, so it would be good to read that version instead of (or at least in addition to) 1e.

>>49052547
>1. Beasts find other potential beasts while sating the Hunger or is the the pre-Beast attracting the Beast to them?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

>2. Heroes are uncontrollable beasts that attack their own kind? Is that what I'm understanding?

No, Heroes are entirely different to Beasts. It's the differnce between being a fish (Beasts); totally at home in the sea, understand it, live it, and being a swimmer (Heroes; can go in the water but can't survive if they go too deep.

>3. Is most "Combat" done through dreams? Do Beasts have the ability to reveal their Horror in a physical space?

Atavisms and Nightmares bring some of the Horror's power into the world, but IRL you stay a human. In your Lair you are a full on monster, but unless you use the endgame content your horror is trapped there.

>4. Heroes, being the antagonists, all have been touched by a Beast, but released early due to their own volition. Does that mean that hunters are actually Heroes because they got out before they turned into a beast?

Hunters are people who are driven to fight the darkness in the world of darkness. It's a choice based on experience.

Heroes murder Beasts to prove they're the good guys, because the good guys get the honor, glory, bitches and wealth and they KNOW in their heart that they deserve it all. It's a hoice based on greed.

>5. What can a Beast do if attacked outside of their Lair? How do you drag someone into your Lair?

Use Atavisms & Nightmares and rely on your sibling monsters, who you will have a variety of at any one time because being around you gives them a contact high.

And you can use Primodial Pathways to drag people into your Lair, or you can Skeleton Key a portal and drag them through in a headlock, or you can seduce them into stepping through voluntarily.

>>49052666
Yea, I mean the Devouring. It's a little unclear as to what exactly happens. The example they gave is a woman dreaming about a giant destroying her friend's bones, so it could be something along those lines?

Heroes being therapists might be the coolest thing I've heard in this thread.

I think I'm reading 2e? That's the created right?

>>49052711
Thanks, anon. I appreciate the insight on the combat and how Heroes are actually Disney Heroes. A bunch of assholes that somehow people swoon over. Gaston, in particular, comes to mind in this case. He was the actual villain though so... whatever, it kind of works.

File: Gaston.jpg (47KB, 541x797px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 541x797px

>>49052834
>Gaston, in particular, comes to mind in this case. He was the actual villain though so... whatever, it kind of works.

He's the literal archetype

>>49052864
Aspel, Stop posting that image already.

>>49052903
>Aspel

People keep calling me this, who is it?

>>49052864
Well, there we go then. fuck, I'm gonna have to reread this shit.

>>49052911
Awful in a can.

>>49052864
What a fucking cisgendered asshole

File: #NotAllHeroes.png (494KB, 443x543px) Image search: [Google]

494KB, 443x543px

>>49052903
That wasn't me, and also no.

>>49052911
A horrible ESSJEW.

>>49052834
>It's a little unclear as to what exactly happens. The example they gave is a woman dreaming about a giant destroying her friend's bones, so it could be something along those lines?
Essentially the Devouring is just realizing that you were the source of your nightmares all along. Then you accept the Horror, it eats your soul, and gives you spooky superpowers, because being a horrible monster always means having superpowers in the Chronicles of the World of Darkness.

>Heroes being therapists might be the coolest thing I've heard in this thread.
Pic related.

And Created is just the subtitle. It'll say "second edition" underneath that if it's the 2e version.

And yeah, Gaston was sort of intentionally the idea. (I can't think of any actual Disney heroes that are shits).
He's the guy who wants to be the Hero because he thinks it'll get him laid.

>>49052981
Gaston's problem isn't being cisgendered, it's toxic masculinity; i.e. "I want to get laid at the expense of other people and everyone should like me because I'm manly".

File: 37d00206cb5420d7f4d9cc2acdc5eba5.jpg (11KB, 236x301px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 236x301px

>>49052981

>>49052911

By the time my name became a bogeyman insult, I decided to wear a trip to shut everyone the fuck up. Maybe it's time, Aspel.

>>49053011
My sides have reached a Lagrange point.

>>49053002
>Gaston's problem isn't being cisgendered, it's toxic masculinity
No, it's that he's a self-centered prick.

>>49053047
>No, it's that he's a self-centered prick.

Same thing

>>49053028
My names have been a boogeyman insult for longer than you've likely been on 4chan. I used to trip for the usefulness of knowing which posts are mine and who I'm talking to.
But I've decided I don't want to make things easier for people who dislike me and want to ignore me, particularly the ones who want to just say stupid things without being corrected.

>>49053047
That's basically just a less nuanced way of saying what I said, yes.
I mean, Mother Gothel is also a self-centered prick, but her actions aren't exactly toxic masculinity.

>>49052547
>New to CofD in it's entirety. Been reading a few books (Beast, Prometheans, and Geist specifically)

Wow, talk about jumping in the deep end

>>49053074

Been here since '06, bud. Every post accusing someone of being you or me is a count against post limit that could have been used for actual discussion. You're literally just enabling shitposters.

>>49053094
'05 at the latest, don't victim blame :V

Also, did you ever get tagged in that OPP thread where I was making a Pilgrimage chart?

>>49053050
The term more then implies that masculine traits are outright awful. If Gaston was as humble as he thought he was, there woulden't be a story and you woulden't have a strawman.

>>49053078
Body Horror and Cthulhu dreamscape bullshit is my horror of choice. I usually gravitate to it when I need to scratch that horror itch.

God, that might be the strangest thing I've ever said.

>>49053190

You'll probably like Demon and Changeling.

>>49053119

It's just a sad reality of where we are.

And no, I didn't! Angel still needs a Pilgrimage Chart as well.

>>49053203
That'll be on the list for tomorrow. I had a bunch of oWoD and nWoD/CofD books downloaded already from a pdf dump someone did before, so it should be fun.

>>49052834
>>49052666
>>49052547
The Devouring isn't quite like the Embrace; iirc, it's not even something you can choose. Someone has a nightmare, and the monster from that nightmare fights its way out into the Primordial Dream, and then it hops through the dream-spaces of people going "this is too cold!" or "this is too hot!" until it hops into a nascent Beast's dream-space, and says "this is juuuuuust right!" and then it takes a nap and claims its Lair, while the mortal-now-Beast connected to the new Lair realizes what they are, and then shit gets stupid

>>49053190
>>49053299
I feel like a lot of Beast's dreamscape bullshit really makes a lot more sense when you're familiar with the Astral Realms from Mage, since the Primordial Dream is a subsection of the Astral.

>>49053366

If there's one thing I don't get, it's why the Homecoming went away. It was interesting and the Devouring just seems so vague.

>>49053367
More like the Astral is a subsection of the Primordial Dream.

>>49053396
Homecoming was too otherkin-y

>>49053398
No, he had it right the first time

>>49053398
Hah.
No.

>>49053225
Atamajakki, you've played Unknown Armies, right?
I'm curious, have you ever thought about trying to pull Avatars into CofD, and have people gain powers from high-ranking Goetia by following certain paths?
Seems like something that could very well happen, in a future book, now that I think about it.

I picked up UA a week or two ago and I've been reading it, and now I'm itching to play it or run it.

>>49053407
More like he had it wrong the first time.

>>49053366
That's great. I absolutely love this concept of Monster Goldilocks snuggling into some person's dreams and that person waking up and realizing that they're the Monster.

>>49053367
I'll add it to the list. Beasts really are connected in more ways than one to the others and it's fascinating. I'm assuming late game Beasts were the origins of Vampires and such? I mean, besides Mother of Darkness creating the beasts.

>>49053407

There's a unique horror in "holy fuck, I was never human and just now realized that" especially if it ties into building towards an Inheritance.

>>49053414

UA is awesome and my usual suggestion for people moaning about Mage being not horror-y enough; the new edition looks incredible.

As for transposing Avatars directly, you'd basically just wind up with fancy Claimed or the Astral equivalent of a Sin-Eater. They're basically there in the form of Werewolf Lodges who empower a Totem by emulating it.

>>49053407
>>49053396
Homecoming isn't gone, it's just self-devouring. They even mention "for these Beasts it's like a homecoming".

>>49053366
No, it is like the Embrace. One Beast can Devour someone else and awaken their inner Beast.
>The first exposure that the dreamer has to the Dark Mother does much to shape her life going forward. Sometimes, the Devouring just happens. The Horror ascends from the Primordial Dream, finds the dreamer, and consumes the thin veneer of humanity that was her soul. Sometimes, a Beast finds the dreamer, her Horror drifting toward the dreams of a seemingly normal person whose nightmares extend deep into the Primordial Dream. The Beast might then choose to offer the Devouring to the dreamer. Very occasionally, the dreamer spots a Beast first and follows her trying to make sense of the odd connection she feels, eventually realizing she is, in a sense, chasing herself.
>However it happens, a Horror (whether another Beast’s or his own) consumes the dreamer within the dreamscape. The dreamer then experiences a moment of perfect stillness. During that moment, the dreamer, for the first time, sees her own Horror.
>The particulars of this process are the subject of much debate among Beasts. If the Beast’s Devouring is brought on by another of the Children, is the new Beast’s Horror chosen, in some way, by the Beast that does the Devouring? Is the new Beast’s Horror — and therefore her Family and Hunger — random? That doesn’t seem to make sense, either, as new Beasts invariably feel that by becoming a Beast, they have not lost their humanity but gained something they were missing all along.
I cut out a bit to fit it into the post.

>>49053479
>the new edition looks incredible.
I actually grabbed the 3e Gamma playtest first, and skimmed it, before grabbing the 2e core book and everything else I could find except for the 1e core. I'm not sure which I like more, the 2e system of stats and skills, or the 3e system of up/downbeat skills and identities.
I really like Identities and the suggested method of going about the first session, letting the players set up their initial objective, but I'm afraid the groups I play with wouldn't like them as much.

>>49053516

I'm still waiting fir a Beast supplement or Dark Era to just blow my mind and sell me on it, like Mage and Mummy did. That new Hunter content looks choice.

I wish that Bronze Age Collapse setting was real.

>>49053539

I'm one of those much-loathed storygame people, so 3e looks like a full-on improvement except for having really boring Avatars complained to 2e. Fingers crossed for an updated equivalent to the Mystuc Hermaphrodite somewhere, or my idea for an MIB Avatar.

>>49053475
Keep in mind that poster is wrong. The Horror was inside you all along (unless someone created it). It doesn't go looking for someone that's juuuust right.
>I'm assuming late game Beasts were the origins of Vampires and such? I mean, besides Mother of Darkness creating the beasts.
The Mother of Monsters could just be a metaphor; as Beast are tied to the Astral, it's very possible that they're not *really* spawned from a "source" of the monsters, but instead represent humanity's innate fears of the things lurking in the dark waiting to kill or maim them. Frankly, it's the version of events that makes more sense.

That said, I'm of the opinion that if there is a Mother of Monsters, she was the source of the precursers to many of the splats. But that's literally just fanwank and involves high level nerd contexts that most casual fans of the setting wouldn't be familiar with; like saying that the Dark Mother is the source of Pangeans, the Idigam, the Atlantean Dragons that were the original source of Mage's powers, the True Fae, and the Strix. Also it's Luna. But that kind of thing isn't interesting to anyone except the people who make circlejerky meaningless cosmology maps.

That said, the game encourages you to make up new Nightmares inspired by the things that other supernaturals can do, so being a Beast that's essentially a big spooky "FEAR OF VAMPIRES" concept is totally possible probably I guess.

>>49053398
That is literally wrong and wouldn't even make proper sense if it were true, as the Primordial Dream covers a more specific conceptual space compared to the Temenos.

>>49053561
I wish your idea of Classical Era Beast was a thing. It's one of those things where I'd want someone who wasn't me to homebrew it.

>>49053479
>There's a unique horror in "holy fuck, I was never human and just now realized that"

Not that unique, applies to werewolf too

>>49053586
The impression I got is that the Avatars and Adept schools in 3e are meant to be entirely new ones, to add to the ever-expanding list of the ones in 2e books.
Hence why Book 3 makes reference to pretty much all of the old Archetypes and Schools, and Book 1 just gives us a bunch of new stuff, like gun-, anarchy-, road-, photo-, film-, clothing-, and agriculture-based mages.
Granted, I guess, a lot of the Archetypes it gives are updated/repeats.
I somehow doubt The Freak throwing the Comte through the House of Renunciation and taking his place as the most powerful thing in the world had any major effects on the 1-98 channels for the Archetype, though.

Is there a description of the anatomy of the Kindred's body in any of the books?

I have a player that is convinced that Kindred's torsos are cavities containing nothing but blood and their heart, and that their organs are actually gone instead of vestigial.

Unless it's mentioned offhand in some splatbook I can't find anything on the subject.

>>49053629

I would throw myself into researching that Greek Beast setting I thought up, but I need to decide if Deviant fits better than Changeling and still need to finish All Along The Watchtowers.

>>49053646

See, what's funny is that I was bored to tears by Adepts in 2e and loved the Avatars, but now the script is flipped; those movie trope and gun adepts are both amazing.

>>49053687
They have organs but don't use them, mentioned under why they only take bashing damage

>>49053629
I'm into that comology map bullshit. But man, beasts are really interesting. The endless void of the Darkness being the most comforting thing for them is dope.

They're like eco-activists, but fuck you up in your mind cause you're a terrible person or something. Now I just need to find a group to play some of these games with.

>>49053687
Said player is right, that line is found in Vampire the Masquerade 3rd edition, where it states Kindred's organs and non-blood bodily fluids are converted into blood upon their transformation into a vampire.

As far as I know, vampires only possess brains, hearts, muscles, skeletons, maybe a stomach, and a lotta blood.

>>49053750
You will never find a beast group, you and I are it's only fans

>>49053750
Beast's main problem--something you'll likely notice if you read into the other games--is that it's kind of...
Light.
Most of the other games have large, interesting settings that have a lot of social and ideological groups that play off of each other. Beast has a lot of coatracks, but nothing really worth hanging your hat on.

>>49053827
I don't hate it. I just wouldn't know what to do with it besides essentially a Hunter game where sometimes you make friends with the monster of the week.

>>49053846
>Hunter game where sometimes you make friends

So, Supernatural.

>>49053891
>inb4 gif

File: Average Hunter The Vigil Chronicle.gif (849KB, 300x200px) Image search: [Google]

849KB, 300x200px

>>49053910
>>49053891
>>inb4 gif
I meant make friends, not sleep with the werewolves.
Although also that

>>49053698
I was uninterested in Adepts AND Avatars until I read the opening fiction for the 2e core(about Dakota and the Messengers), Lawyers Guns and Money(about the entropomacer and a couple hit-squad goons), and I think Post-Modern Magic(about that same entropomacer being the center of a 3 way standoff between an epiderpornomancer, a Naked Goddess sectee, and a TNI assassin)
Then I realized they could all be used to do some pretty cool shit

>>49053940
My favorite part about supernatural is there is little in the show that couldn't be a hunter campaign.

Their vampires were lame though.
Even though the alpha vampire was a cool guy.

>>49053940
>>49053986
Worth watching?

>>49053988
It is a bit of a wild ride. The show starts off pretty dark and gritty. Like, people get dead and they fail a lot.

By a certain point, it gets wrapped up in its own plotlines with only the occasional side mission for levity. The show then becomes constant reminders of the main arc, constant cameos, etc etc.

Then the apocalypse is avoided, and the show starts to phone it in because wtf do you do after that?

Last I watched all the angels were kicked out of heaven and I think that was like two or three seasons ago.

>>49053891
>>49053940
The Winchester's have only ever made friends with a small handful of monsters.
Cass and Crowley being notable standouts, because it was their popularity that lead to them sticking around. There was also that demon chick from season 1, Ruby, and Dean's vampire pal from purgatory. I think that's it, if you're only counting monsters they've straight up allowed to do bad shit(the only other examples I can think of are the werewolves that Garth shacked up with, but they were playing friendly and trying to avoid hurting anybody)

>>49053988
It starts out pretty good, but after season 5(where it was originally intended to end), things started going downhill, slowly. Season 11 actually fixed a decent amount of the problems I had with it.

>>49054046
There was also the kitsune.

File: WoD STs.gif (500KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 500x281px

>>49053988
Yeah. You'll have people tell you the first five seasons are the only ones worth watching, and it's true that 3 through 5 is a complete story arc, but frankly the quality is about the same throughout, except for a few dips. The overarching plots tend to be pretty stupid, and if you marathon it you'll realize how flipfloppy the writing can be, and how often they seem to forget things they revealed in previous episodes (like "nothing can kill an angel" to a few episodes later "angels have been getting killed a lot lately" or "I've never heard of a Rougarou" to "back in '94 when dad was hunting a Rougarou" a few seasons later).

It's dumb. But it's neat.

>>49053986
The best thing about Supernatural re: Vigil is that you can basically play Vigil like Supernatural thanks to the way Vigil approaches crossover and the WoD at large.

>>49054046
>>49054090
It's a plotline that's come up enough to be a cliche. They also have slept with a Werewolf and a Kitsune. If I recall it was literally the same plotline, but they just switched which Winchester felt they Did What They Had to Do.

>>49054082
>after season 5 things started going downhill
It was always downhill.

>>49053985

TNI and The Sleepers are both such cool factions.

File: Supernatural is Bad But I Still Enjoyed It.png (193KB, 948x1293px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 948x1293px

>>49054082
>>49054044
>>49053988
>>49054124
For reference, I haven't seen past the angels falling, and I'd still recommend the show to any WoD fan despite these flaws.

>>49054244
Gabriel is Loki! But somehow all the minor gods at the minor god meeting can't tell the difference? (Not that they mattered very long).

Like, clearly they just wanted to keep Loki around as an important character. But come on.

>>49038343
Got a question.

I want my char to be able to go out into the streets and trail someone. Maybe ask the hobos, pimps, bar owners, cops and gather information about that person. Where he lives, what kind of apetites does he have, who are his contacts etc.
He already has investigation(Tracking) but what is the Streetwise speciality of this? Streetwise(Rumors) doesnt give the same tune. Got any ideas?

File: Screenshot_2016-08-29-00-40-09.png (127KB, 480x800px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 480x800px

MORE LATEST NEW ON GEIST!¡!¡!!

>>49054357
Yay! It's nothing!

>>49054357

Kerberoi and Deathlords?

>>49054355
profiling?

File: Screen Shot 2012-03-24 at 6.36.32 PM.png (297KB, 549x669px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 549x669px

>>49054357
That's good. Having some actual antagonists will go a long way to giving Geist some foundation. Though I did like abmortals. "This guy is breaking the cycle of life and death by doing (horrible thing) so he never dies" is something most Sin-Eaters would be interested in.

Always makes me think of a line from Batman Beyond, where Bruce Wayne confronts Ra's Al-Ghul (a good example of a dangerous abmortal) for the last time:

"Sure Ra's, why not? Anything to hold off the Grim Reaper a few more seconds. I take it back. You don't cheat death. You whimper in fear of it."

Could you guys help me setting up a background location for an upcoming campaign? I need some references (real location, fictional location, your experience, etc) to use as a model-town.

Here are some basic conditions for the campaign-town.

> Quiet and remote place; not too many visitors.
> No major city, just towns and villages in the area
> Sheriff, not police, doing the police-work
> Snow and mountains
> Still have some population though (So vamps can drink and stuff)

And also, what elements would you guys put in your town (that campaign takes place) to make the campaign more interesting?

>>49054486
Ra'as Al Ghul fits perfectly in Geist.

>>49054592
Anywhere in Wales that isn't a university town

>>49054357
Aww, I liked Abmortals and wanted to see them expanded.

>>49054617
I mean, you can still keep them. Their baseline is there, you just have to get creative.

>>49054629
>>49054617
>Their baseline is there, you just have to get creative.
I mean, it's not like there was that much there to begin with.

>>49054646
By there I mean, Ra'as Al Ghul and Dorian Grey would be good starts to what an abnormal could probably be and what they'd do.

File: image.jpg (120KB, 500x531px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 500x531px

>>49054592

>>49048244
Ah, that sounds like a clear way to do it.

File: Pilgrimage Chart.png (2MB, 1254x1627px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1254x1627px

Alright, gimme feedback on this shit.

I need to figure out how to make it a fillable PDF.

>>49053813
>As far as I know, vampires only possess brains, hearts, muscles, skeletons, maybe a stomach, and a lotta blood.

Well, considering VtM vampires can have the "Eat Food" merit (which means they have to store the food somewhere), and that Thin Bloods can even spend blood to force their undead bodies to digest said food, I'm fairly certain all vampires have stomachs.

What would you guys say are the practical uses of the aggressive meme Numin?

>>49055480
"Red haired women must be burned at the stake"

"There's no such thing as ghosts"

"Sucking cock makes you live longer"

etc. etc.

>>49055093
It's pretty much perfect It's the kind of "cheat sheet" I like to have around for my games. Thanks, anon.

>>49055093
What benefit (if any is there to completing every Role?

If you do, but don't have enough Pilgrimage to roll for humanity, what do?

>>49055770
Well, if you complete EVERY role, you'll definitely have enough Pilgrimage to roll for Humanity, since you're supposed to select ten roles out of the 30. There's not a benefit in doing that, however, and I think it would represent a character who is very shallow in his pursuit of humanity.

You do get a benefit if you complete a Role in each of the ten Refinements, though: you may choose to remember your Promethean existence as a human or not at the moment of the New Dawn, but you can change your mind at your first breaking point. You can choose to forget if you initially chose to remember:

>Man, this Promethean thing keeps haunting me. I think I'd like to live as a fully-fledged human from now on.

And you can even choose to remember if you originally chose to forget:

>Whoa, this person looked like a human, but he wasn't. I remember... something... it's- it's coming back to me...

Pretty challenging, but well worth it.

I hate to potentially restart this shitstorm, but am I the only one who really liked the idea of Hero's as self entitled and self righteous antagonists? I think it's an interesting subversion of the trope(And one that has sure worked well before, even if in beast it's....y'know, lacking).

File: Pilgrimage Chart.png (2MB, 1254x1627px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1254x1627px

>>49055731
Trying to get it form fillable is probably too much of a headache for me. I don't seem to have that feature in Foxit Phantom, despite the manual saying it's there, and I can't get forms to save on OpenOffice.

>>49055770
It's taken me far too long to figure this out:

When the character is created, the player and ST work together to determine TEN ROLES that the player must complete. THIS is known as the character's Pilgrimage (as opposed to the trait, or the general concept). These are, for the most part, the only Roles that "count" towards your completion. Each one is a guaranteed Superlative Milestone, which means it increases your Pilgrimage trait and gives a full Vitriol. You can complete the New Dawn with ONLY 8 Roles across two Basic and two Complex Refinements, but doing so means you'll be rolling at a -2 penalty, and your human self will have an Integrity of 4 and be plagued by nightmares of some horrible past that he escaped.

"Completing" a Refinement means meeting the Milestone of at least one Role from that Refinement. If you complete the last two Roles on your Pilgrimage over the minimum 8, you'll roll without a penalty for New Dawn. If you complete Refinements over the minimum four, you'll have a better life as a human (possibly keeping one of your Alembics and gaining the Unseen Sense: Prometheans merit, or gaining 5 dots of Social Merits and forgetting your Promethean life to remember the human life created for you). Roles outside of your Pilgrimage (the ten predetermined Roles) don't count towards your Pilgrimage, but they do allow you to use more Alembics while in that Refinement's Roles, serve as minor Milestones at the very least, and DO count towards getting you a better New Dawn.

i.e. my Pilgrimage doesn't contain Cuprum or Aes, but I complete the Watcher and Servant roles anyway. These don't help me further my Pilgrimage directly, but because I've completed two more Refinements that make my New Dawn better.

Fixed some wording.

>>49055878
Of course not, though saying it's any kind of subversion is pretty ignorant.
The self-righteous hero fighting monsters for personal gratification is pretty well founded.

File: Gt68fT.png (118KB, 338x625px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 338x625px

>>49055817
>I think it would represent a character who is very shallow in his pursuit of humanity.
Or thorough.

Also, it's technically possible to complete the Pilgrimage with an effective 11 Refinements, if you get an Exceptional Success.

>>49055878
>>49055952
They still are that. I mean, look at Thaddeus. He kills Beasts because he thinks he's an anime character, basically. For a less "silly" version, Marion kills Beasts because she thinks she's an oWoD Hunter purging the supernatural from this good Christian earth. Of course, Melanie is killing because she wants to help these big shiny heroes defeat the baddies and keeps hoping they'll help save her (but they don't). And Desmond just feels like he's on a mission, because he too thinks he's an oWoD Hunter. None of the sample Heroes actually changed between versions, other than the section on Sleeping Beauty needing to spell out "this is a moral quandary", and the possibility of 'curing' her now on the table.
Also, just because it's not new doesn't mean it's not a subversion.

>>49055947
What happens if something changes your Promethean mid-journey and eg. your pre-determined Soldier role is no longer something your character wishes to explore?

Can they be changed?

>>49052282
Madness

>>49055991
I counted wrong.

>If you complete Ten Refinements and remember:
You get one Alembic, Unseen Sense: Prometheans, and three free Social dots.
>If you choose to forget, and remember your Human life:
You get eight free dots of Social Merit.

>>49055491
>>49055480
It's not a dick!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZcfJu4cWZ4