Warmachine Officially Dead. DC left because there was no via

Bumpo

I bought alexia1 on sale at mini market, thinking of doing something like this


http://conflictchamber.com/#b31beWeQ0d7X7Vd18a8h6i8I88

Khador Army - 75 / 75 points

(Zerkova 2) Obavnik Kommander Zerkova [+24]
- Reaver Guard0]
- Ruin [17]
- Juggernaut [12]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (2) [4]
Greylord Outriders (max) [20]
Greylord Ternion [7]
Koldun Lord [4]
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10]
- Koldun Kapitan Valachev [4]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [13]

Between banishing ward, sacred ward, and spell ward most of the list can't be targeted by enemy spells. On feat turn zephyr can be used before a charge to get some extra inches in, which is nice. Risen can be used for sacrificial lamb on the two jacks if it's convenient.

>>48968403
All aboard the Doom Train? Do you guys even play Warmachine anymore or is it just 24 hours of bitching and moaning?

>>48968403

Still going strong at my FLGS. I don't know why /tg/ is so doom and gloom.

>>48968403
I'm sure the headline is bait, but I wanna ask anyway if it's true, or if there's any basis for the claims?

I do see a lot of doom and gloom both here and out in the wild. At big cons so far the competitive community is split between leaving the game and continuing to play it. Leavers include Jordan Nach and Brian White (!) as of GenCon. Chiriboga seemed unhappy too but who knows.

>>48970014
>>48970113
>>48970332

That smiley means facetious trolling.

That reaction means there are enough people that actually think that to make it plausible.

....and that makes me sad. I know there is a lot of salt going around, but I figured it was isolated to smaller pockets here and there in my area.

I'm wondering how PP will adapt or adopt to the rumbling sentiments of balance and malaise.

>>48970746
Sure the face meant trolling but that doesn't make it clear which parts, if any, we're accurate.

And yeah it's a pretty widespread feeling. I dunno if this is still true but about a month ago I was told that literally every regular player in the Omaha area had straight up stopped playing. Something like 20-30 local guys, some of which were tourney regulars. Just a small sample but still.

>>48968403
Pardon my dumb, but who was DC again?
I have been out of the community for a bit.

>>48970014
I left after a group of competitive players swept through our region (CA Bay Area).
For a lot of us more casual players who had been playing a long time, they were pretty rude, and games became nitpick fights over rules.
Just got tiring. Some have gone back, others like me moved on to other games.

Fuck man,you got me there

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>>48971336
David Carl. Head designers.

>>48970332
The claim hits the people in the middle. The super casual don't care, they just want to play and don't care. The Super competitive own every faction and will hop as necessary.
The people in the middle who is tactically minded to care about quality, but casual enough that they don't want to play the same deadly combo over and over again for practice just fucking hate it.

I'm in the middle band and I'm wishing that I was naive enough to not understand the math and design imbalance, because I don't want to turn this game into work.

>>48968403
You know guild ball is a fantastic alternative

>>48972498
I'm curious to see how long GB can last. As they add more and more models, the things are gonna get harder and harder to balance since there's no point levels in that game.

I'm predicting that an upgrade system like X Wing or Malifaux system will show up sooner or later.

>>48972716
They are capping models to teams. They may add more if they add more archetypes...but they plan on avoiding bloat.

>>48970332
I've pretty much stopped playing after a few months of mk3. Tried playing Skorne still and got my shit pushed in worse than in mk2. Switched to Menoth, but it was super boring. None of the other armies really interest me either, so I've more or less moved on. If they ever give Skorne a proper errata, I might come back. But after playing them since mk1 and being kicked in the balls twice, I think I might just be done.

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Avatar is ready. Smithe thy heathens.

>>48972498
>warmachine is barely played
>lets all jump to a game that is even more rare

>>48974007
With more pronounced balance issues due to the lack of diversity.

The only games other than ccgs played at my flgs are warmachine and xwing, and warmachine is the bigger of the two. There used to be heroclix but I haven't seen that in a year. There's like 3 boxes of Guildhall stuff no one buys, while warmachine has a wall dedicated to it.

Hell, only other thing that gets played is me and a friend starting a bloodbowl league.

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>>48974007
Like every game, it needs to be introduced. It's not like steamforged doesn't everything free so you can shill with no financial burden.

Just saying.

Guild Ball General?

>>48974093
Probably the only balance issues plaguing GB atm are Fillet,Obulous and Avarice and Greede.

That's way better than what's going o in WMH right now where a lot of in faction stuff is gasping for air.

Woah, woah, I've been out of the loop since like 3 weeks before mk3 dropped back in june or whenever it was

Has shit been happening since then? Major factional imbalances, or what?

>>48974850
Nothing really new. Just the same people on the net shouting. Next week it will be a new problem with the game.

>>48974850
It's been an escalation of checks against the new edition that has caused so much grumbling.

1. mkiii gets announced. From the get go, PP makes statements that this has been in play test for 3 years and balance will be better than ever with more inflated point system allowing for more minute things. Things are ok for now.

2. Insiders start coming out that detail abilities like power up which makes the community happy. This is instantly ruined by Insiders by Jason Soles since EVERY insider he does, he mentions almost predominantly nerfs or talk about buffs on things that no one gives a shit. This is also compounded by PP's oddly secretive responses to concerns that just keeps on repeating that they have been playtested for 3 years and everything will be fine.

3. LnL happens. The mkiii release happens and immediately people find mistakes. The key note presentation for LnL is fucking awful, and themelists that were mentioned won't even be released until December. People definitely get the impression that the entire thing is handled very poorly and rushed.

4. Day 1 problems emerge. Sloan can do a turn one deployment zone shooting, Madrak 2 being weird in interaction for shunting throws. People have made up their minds on top tier for the new edition already and both side of the balance curve has been touched in bad ways. Caine 2 got stronger for some reason even though he didn't need it. Madrak 1 got horrendously worse when he needed buffs while faction's arguably best non-theme-force warlock, Madrak 2 got insanely strong. WGRC became ridiculously efficient compared to every shooting unit in the game.

5. Rule question regarding flank comes up, since as written then, you cannot get the flank/gang damage bonus if the target is knocked down or stationary. It is ruled that it's gonna worked that way. People are outraged and ask if that's the intent, which PP says it's playtested that way, which is an obvious and blatant lie. People are going insane now

cont

>>48974850
>>48975078
6. At this time, steamroller is released and the new scenarios, especially Line Breaker combined with premeasuring gunline makes the matches even more lopsided than usual. Melee brick armies just cannot compete.

7. Simultaneously Hordes have been hit with several nerfs across the board. Beasts frequently lost fury/threshold/fury management and animi are extremely limited in both quantity and applications now. combined with still higher cost against the jacks, Hordes players, especially Skorne, are livid. The insiders all mentioned making infantry options stronger for the hordes factions, but there has been no noticeable or any increase in infantry output.

8. Warroom 2 is still warroom and PP compounds the issue even further with release of King Maker theme force which is not only different from warroom, but also different from developer's notes.
>Rangers were mentioned by soles and in the WR, but not in the NQ theme.

So, yeah, PP has basically done nothing but stumble through the mkiii release and haven't done anything other than limited damage control.

>>48975238
Oh, hah. Skorne actually did end up getting fucking nothing?

I remember seeing all those beautiful insiders. "X is about Y and Z. So here is how we nerfed Y and Z! Don't worry though, this side unit focusing around P got buffed or something, so it's ok"

Sounds like 'playtesting' years of mk2 and then making changes based off that...and not testing the new changes.

>>48975303
PP has no idea what they are doing with Skorne and has admitted it at this point.

Skorne is a hodgepodge of design philosophies that never comes together.

>>48975303
Skorne got worse, if you can believe it. Their casters didn't get noticeably stronger while their beasts and heavy infantry were nerfed heavily. They're basically bottom of the pile.

>>48975303
Skorne in Mk3 as summarized by anon:

>Fury Management
Condition on beasthandlers got nerfed so there is less fury management
Enrage no longer gives free charges and Skorne now has no access to free charges
Titans had their fury reduced

>Defensive stats
Titans had their def reduced by 2
Cataphracts lost 3 boxes

>Animus
Far Strike became self only
Fatewalker got worse
Krea bubble lost its Arm bonus
Skorne gained Spiny Growth but Spiny Growth became self only
Sentry lost Locker

Losing theme forces hurt Cataphract play or usage
Morg2 got his feat back but lost a few rules (like immunity to CMA/CRA) and traded out Silence of Death (which got buffed in Mk3) for a shitty nuke
Makeda1 randomly lost Combo-Strike, Defender's Ward and traded Savagery for Quicken
Makeda2 lost Road to War and Leash
So now only Mak1/Morg1/Xerxis2 can buff speed
Spell slave can't cast upkeeps anymore so Marketh is now pretty costly for something of debatable use
Xerxis1 lost Inhospitable Ground for Rift
Mobility went up in cost which hurts Xerxis2's gameplay
Croak raiders got nerfed
Gators got nerfed
Archidon is shit
Rhinodon is shit
Bog Trog Ambushers got nerfed
Flank and Gang no longer work on Stationary/Knocked Down targets
Hakaar doesn't count as an Ancestral Guardian anymore so Zaal can't Direct Spirits to him
Zaal traded Invioable Resolve for a spell that makes models undead (hence no longer producing souls for him/his guardians)

There's tons more and PP even admitted in an AMA they basically have no idea what they are doing with Skorne.

WARMACHINE/HORDES FACTION POWER RANKING

>God (S tier)
Cygnar, Khador

>Good (A tier)
Retribution, Circle

>Mid-High (B tier)
Mercs, Minions, Convergence

>Mid (C tier)
Menoth, Trolls, Legion

>Mid-Low (D tier)
Cryx

>Low (E tier)
Skorne

Factually Accurate Warmahordes Power Rankings:

Top
>Cygnar
>Khador
>Ret

Mid
>Everyone else but Cryx and Skorne

Low
>Cryx

Skorne
>Skorne

>>48975238
Also the recent news of PP trying to be big damn heroes, and messing with online sales to try and help B&M stores.

I know they love to fire and replace people there, but this last year or so it's really felt like a pod person version of the company I once kind of liked.

>>48975783
>>48976069
Pretty much agree on the same thing.

>>48975078
They did errata the flank thing

Got the cryx starter.

What else should I grab? Ive read bane thralls are good half the time, and theyre bad the other half.

Satyxis pirates a yes?

Deathjack, a reaper, and nightmare are in my list right now.

>>48976387
Seetheer(s) & DJ are solid choices.
There's no such thing as Bane Thralls anymore, they are Bane Warriors now. And most recommend for them come from Mk2. Satyrix are still decent.

>>48976347
Unfortunate that they claimed it was working as intended before said errata.

>>48976387
Satyxis Raiders, Barathrum, Warwitch Sirens, Cephalyx Overlords.

>>48976578
Yeah, but I'll give some respect for being able to admit being wrong in a timely manner.

>>48976596
>being able to admit being wrong

It wasn't "admitting to being wrong" as much as it was trying to appease everyone so they'd stop riding PP's ass until it was red and raw.

>>48976387
Bane warriors ain't bad but you should only really take them with casters who can deliver them other wise they will just get shot to bits.
Satyxis raiders are probably the best unit in Cryx atm, mostly because they are can be delivered fairly easily. Take the UA. Basically Cryx's living troops are the better ones (mostly) at the moment.
Seethers are the same deal as Bane warriors, only take them if you can deliver it without it getting shot to death. Also the Seether/Inflictor kit should be out soon/now so maybe magnetise it. Barathrum is solid and a nice model. Malice is almost certainly more worthwhile than a 2nd reaper. Also the Stalker is great, if you ever met Raeks in Mk2, its like that but better. They are the perfect scalpel and very hard to stop.
Warwitches are still good, I'd consider a machine wraith or two.

>>48976886
And also going out and actually playtesting it for a few days I'd guess...

>>48970332
Hmmm I got a bit of inside info of sorts.

>Warmachine Officially Dead.
Obviously not. Still steam powering this mini's train.

>DC left because there was no viable long term plan for Warmachine and Hordes.
Nope! Creative differences were cited and the break was cordial and professional. Lemme put it this way, Management at PP does not equate to super happy fun times. I don't know exactly WHY DC left, but I do know it's not some rage-quit on the part of DC like some people want to make it out to be.

>MK3 rushed 6 months early to avoid total collapse of cash flow during summer months.
Sorta? I mean, the way things were handled were a bit uneven, that much is clear from the end product we have today, but purchasing was down for PP product. New stuff was being purchased, but pessimistic distributors and B&M meant that initial sales for new product were not meeting initial estimates.

>:^)
Yeah... Troll.

>>48977995

DCs break was not as civil as you're laying it out to be. I mean, David was professional, but PP management not so much.

Mk III proves DC was right. Going down the tubes, worst I've felt about the game and company since Mark 1.

>>48975783
>>48976069
Did Ret receive nerfs or buffs?

>>48978234
Massive buffs.

Power Up and the change to Empower (formerly Power Booster) let them do a lot more with their jacks than they could before.

Dawnguard Sentinels got buffed, and are now one of the premier heavy infantry.

The shift towards larger battle groups and away from stealth, plus pre-measuring, has made Stormfall Archers and MHSF better.

Ossyan picked up Deadeye, which makes him considerably better at running shooting units (which also got better to to other changes).

Vyros 2 got hit by the nerf to Synergy, but is still very playable.

Vyros 1 got buffed with a new feat and Bird's Eye getting changed.

Thyron is pretty shit, Ellowyur Swordsmen are shit, and MHI are shit, which is a lot fewer stinkers than most factions.

>>48977995
>DC left because there was no viable long term plan for Warmachine and Hordes.
>Nope! Creative differences were cited and the break was cordial and professional. Lemme put it this way, Management at PP does not equate to super happy fun times. I don't know exactly WHY DC left, but I do know it's not some rage-quit on the part of DC like some people want to make it out to be.

You really must be some sort of insider with PP, because that's the exact sort of "everything is great, nothing is wrong!" canned response that I've come to expect from them.

More on topic, however, a handful of my old WarmaHordes friends are all thinking of getting back into the game, and have started to ask me if I want to as well. Currently torn between getting the Skorne battlebox and embracing everyone stepping on my balls constantly, since they were/are my main faction, or if I want to switch it up with Retribution, since I like the sound of Helena and already have some Ret stuff kicking around as well. Currently have a banshee, phoenix, Imperatus, a chimera, and an aspis as far as warjacks go.

Is Darius any good? If he is, I'd be willing to sell of my Ret stuff and keep my small Cygnar jack force. Otherwise I'd probably reverse that, sell my Cygnar off, and focus on Retribution and Skorne I already know that the Skorne isn't going to sell, so that's not even a consideration at this point.

>>48975783
>>48976069
I'm pretty new but how is Protectorate of "Mark 2 jack faction" not helped overwhelmingly by power up. The nerf to choir also meant that most of the heavies got relatively cheaper. I mean, the crusader is cheaper that quite a few lights, but still hits like a truck and has a lot of staying power to boot. The turd polishers still make Menite jacks arguably some of the best in the game, and in Warmahordes 3.0: Jacks are OP edition, I feel like it should be:
Cygnar, Khador
Menoth, Ret (no order)
Other shit that doesnt matter.

>>48979197
Loss of accuracy wasn't exactly made up
Large number of mainstay models got worse

Its not that Menoth is bad - its just that they aren't amazing. And when everyone gets better at doing your schtick - you don't really excel at it as much.

>>48979521
They super isolated the denial elements, however.

They're the only faction that can consistently deal with upkeeps in all their pairings.

>>48976069
I'd argue that Convergence is up top as well.

>>48971380
What store was this at?

>>48971945
Thank you for the update!

>>48978087
>>48977995
>>48978649
The rumor goes that DC left because they refused to tell him anything, like the fact that MK3 was in the works, for example.

>>48968403
>:^)
Wait, you were joking?

>>48970746
>I'm wondering how PP will adapt or adopt to the rumbling sentiments of balance and malaise.
Would be nice if they did anything at all. They've been awfully quiet aside from those terrible Insiders that they deem their playerbase worth reading.

>>48981794
The problem they have is that they can't address players too much, because that will just open the floodgates.

I also wonder if their social media coordinator didn't finally manage to stick them in a room and explain to them that they have no fucking clue how to talk to people or write for an audience.

>>48981794
>Would be nice if they did anything at all. They've been awfully quiet aside from those terrible Insiders that they deem their playerbase worth reading.

Soles did that one AMA.
>Skorne confuses us from a design standpoint, our jobs are hard, the Hoskune lore makes them too difficult to design for.
Shit, I can think of a billion starting points they could look at, and try to begin balancing.

>>48981963
Man, I don't trust anything Soles says anymore, positive or negative.

The man has such an amazing talent for fucking up what he wants to say so that people take it exactly the wrong way.

>>48981923
Well, if we're talking about the posters in the general forums. Those are the peopel that are bitching about everything and anything. The game kind of hit that point where its big enough to where the forums are now like WoW, LoL, or other multiplayer video game forums. You got a lot of people just shouting that anything that has the chance of beating something is OP. The community in the general forums is toxic so I don't blame them for not wanting to bring them into the fold.

They did dial back the gang/flank thing. Someone did mention that one of the reasons it was changed to engaging/engaged was cause some really obscure thing with eDenny and they wanted to close that. That was mostly drowned out though from people yelling memes of designspace etc.

>>48976596
If only. They were basically like "Oh this is working as intended. You simply cannot comprehend the nuances of the rules we playtested for 30 years. But if you dirty peasants must absolutely have it that way we shall appease your base wishes."

At least that's how it came across.

>>48975424
>Their casters didn't get noticeably stronger
And some even got massively worse. Ironically at the end of Mk2, Morg2 was playable. Not any longer though.

>>48981988
My favorite is the thread with the guy complaining that he hates the fact that some things are better taken with some casters.

>>48981997
Yea, see, their ability to actually interact with people is terrible. Hungerford was again the only one of the devs who addressed the issue at hand without sounding exactly like that.

>>48981794
Did you see the troll list today?

>>48975626
>Flank and Gang no longer work on Stationary/Knocked Down targets
>Hakaar doesn't count as an Ancestral Guardian anymore so Zaal can't Direct Spirits to him
Well this got changed eventually.

>>48978649
Ret seems pretty nice. Darius also, but he can't play into everything. Keep away from Skorne.

>>48975424
The problem is that PP desperately wants Skorne to be a counter punch faction, so very, very bad.

And it's such a terrible design for a faction, competitively. The very nature of the tactic requires you to depend on your opponent to do things. Your opponent isn't going to do those things unless you force him too.

If you have the tools to force your opponent to do things, you are no longer a counter punch faction.

>>48982018
>My favorite is the thread with the guy complaining that he hates the fact that some things are better taken with some casters.
I saw that and it gave me a good chuckle.

They can sit and fix every preceived problem that comes up with the game, but the way this works now, is they'll find a new thing the next day to complain about.

>>48981988
>They did dial back the gang/flank thing. Someone did mention that one of the reasons it was changed to engaging/engaged was cause some really obscure thing with eDenny and they wanted to close that. That was mostly drowned out though from people yelling memes of designspace etc.

That wouldn't have been an issue if they had taken the 5 minutes to look at the gang/knockdown flank/stationary combos on offending models. Because they didn't, the whole "we've been playtesting for 3 years already to really balance everything and iron out shitty rules interactions" just looks like a fat load of shit, and makes the edition look rushed even if it wasn't. That alone opens them up to all sorts of mockery, and makes us wonder what else we shouldn't take at face value from them.

>>48982020
They have an infernal currently rechecking the ruling on Zaal's "direct spirits" rule and how it interacts with soul taker. It's been under review since early last week. God I hope they don't mess this one up, too. It's not like Skorne needs to take any more lumps than it has already.

>>48981963
Okay, let me rephrase: It would be nice if anyone BUT Soles actually talked to the community. Hell, let the janitor do it.

>>48982018
>Did you see the troll list today?
Do I really want to?

>Hungerford
Yeah, he's really hard to dislike. Maybe they should let him handle more of their PR. Then again, a single person can only do so much.

>>48982040
I mean, PP's stance on the whole thing is the right choice. Just let it happen in the forums, but never respond to it. If people make good points, you can take and use them(A lot of the changes in MK3 seem to have come from this, for example). If they're idiots, then you just ignore them.

Their response to the forums is fine as is. If they could just nail their ability to talk to the community, they'd be a lot better off.

Like, for all it's flaws, I'd still argue that Mk3 is one of the best balanced wargames on the market at the moment, both in terms of variety and in relative power levels. Even the gap between the top factions and Skorne is way smaller than some of the gaps between the top and midline factions in other games.

I ultimately think that the balance changes they make will be generally good. It's just their responses and actions that get so dumb.

>>48982052
>Hell, let the janitor do it.
Imagine being a janitor paid to clean up after people both offline and online.

>>48982071
http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-08-24-2016

I will give the article credit though. Unlike a lot of the other Insiders with lists in them, this one doesn't take a tactical tone in it, so it actually feels more like a themed/fun list. But it's pretty bad.

>>48982043
It's more like the playtested once a week for 3 years and had round table discussions on things. They weren't burning the oil on it for 3 years straight. But when it is done that way where its multitasked, stuff falls through. However a simple beta ruleset would have gotten a lot of bugs. Problem is they get a lot responses like yours of just being mad on any and every topic.

>>48982089
You weren't kidding. That's pretty horrible.

>>48982075
I agree with all that. It could also be that cause of how the forums blow up over everything that a slight fuck that Infinity or Wyrd would get away with, gets compounded.

>>48982103
I'm sure their very real issue with things like gang/flank is that they were playing as intended, instead of considering the rules as newly written.

And yea, they got burned pretty bad in the Mk2 open playtest, so it's understandable why they didn't do it again.

My problem is that most of this year is basically an open playtest, especially if they make balance changes at the end of the year.

And that's fine, because it's ultimately good for the game, but they need to talk about this.

Hungerford is the only one who's addressed that topic as well.

>>48982127
The thing I point out to people all the time about the Warmahordes forums is that when people bring shit up there, they're not trying to cheat.

You see people getting autistic in the rules forums over wording, for example, but those people aren't going to a tourney and trying to win with it. They're just trying to get it fixed, so ultimately they're just trying to clean up the game.

>>48982122
And again, in the man's defense, it's clearly a list he has his own personal fluff for, rather than him trying to justify it's power on the table.

Like, I feel like a lot of these lists are to try and bring the focus more towards modeling, painting, and "your dudes" kind of stuff, which is fine, but the way they write the articles needs to better reflect that idea.

Some pictures of the army, maybe a little fluff blurb, shit like that would make the tone carry so much better.

>>48982136
>And yea, they got burned pretty bad in the Mk2 open playtest, so it's understandable why they didn't do it again.
That's like writing a shitty job application, getting rejected and concluding that the only thing you can do is become a NEET.

>>48982256
I mean, they struggled with the balance issues of the Mk2 playtest through the entirety of Mk2.

Like, the day before Mk3 dropped, some of the shit that happened in that playtest will still problems in the game.

>>48982127
>responses like yours of just being mad on any and every topic.

Some of the blowup could be avoided in part if PP changed how they say to the community.

When they say that Mk3 is meant in part to simplify rules, reduce rule clutter, and make interactions of rules easier to understand, then botch a rule, they'd get less shit if they just said "whoops, that's one that slipped by, better correct that!" Instead, they tried to play the "working as intended, nothing to see here" card, which needlessly stirred the hornet nest.

One aspect of Warmachine/Hordes that I think contributes to blow ups over small things vs Infinity/Malifaux is that WarmaHordes has a far more competitively-minded playerbase, and they might take rules, model performance, and faction balance far more seriously than the casual player might.

On that note, similar to >>48971380 overly competitive players more or less killed our local scene. They didn't want casual games without steamroller rules and netlisting because it didn't help them prepare for tournaments. They only cared about winning games (and a handful of them would often fudge measuring, and argue over timing rules for an advantage, even the Press Ganger), and disparage minis they considered "sub-par." It really sucked the fun out of what was once a laid-back gathering.

>>48982266
Like I said. If you do a bad playtest that will lead to bad results. Doesn't make playtesting a bad thing. And them not fixing that shit till Mk3 just drives the incompetence point home.

>>48982177
Again, I agree with all that. I think the game is stronger if you do update this stuff a bit every few years.

>>48982136
My favorite recently was the "Is the new Ghetorix legal?" That one was just pure sperg and I guess a few people being mad that they made a resculpt for him cause they'd have to buy it.

>>48982302
>My favorite recently was the "Is the new Ghetorix legal?" That one was just pure sperg and I guess a few people being mad that they made a resculpt for him cause they'd have to buy it.

I was one of the dudes posting in that thread, and I should have been clearer.

My point wasn't "The new sculpt isn't legal!", because that's retarded.

My point was "Your conversion rules fucking suck, and you should change them."

Having conversion rules so restrictive that your own official model violates them is pretty bad.

>>48982297
I'm sure they did internal playtesting, and maybe outsourced a little bit. The card leaks suggest at least someone had the rules.

But still, like I said, it's better to think of this whole first year as an open playtest.

>>48982273
>Some of the blowup could be avoided in part if PP changed how they say to the community.
This is every game though.
>When they say that Mk3 is meant in part to simplify rules, reduce rule clutter, and make interactions of rules easier to understand, then botch a rule, they'd get less shit if they just said "whoops, that's one that slipped by, better correct that!" Instead, they tried to play the "working as intended, nothing to see here" card, which needlessly stirred the hornet nest.
Aside from gang/flank, it's been cleaner edition for me.
>One aspect of Warmachine/Hordes that I think contributes to blow ups over small things vs Infinity/Malifaux is that WarmaHordes has a far more competitively-minded playerbase, and they might take rules, model performance, and faction balance far more seriously than the casual player might.
Which goes back to this being a problem with every game. Malifaux is just now realizing that rats can do weird things. Infinity is just as complex as warmachine but there is a bit more a skill aspect to it so a lot of people will shout you down with git gud meme. Its like the warmachine community hit this critical mass where everyone is constantly finding a new thing to complain about. Its in a lot of video game forums and warhammer forums too. I think want to say it has more to do with gamers being who we are, than them. They could have made every rule free and everyone gets a free model of their choice, but the community would complain that its only one and not any of the infinite numbers above one.

>>48982316
Yeah, people took it that way.

I know what theyre going for. As a business they want people to use their shit, especially if theyre streaming it. But they want people to convert and stuff cause thats the hobby. It really just needs to be a "If the TO said ok, then everyone just has to deal with it." Which is generally the case. Been playing for years with converted models and haven't caught flak about it. The thing is, the people willing to throw that flak, are the that guys of all gaming. The current policy puts an unwanted anxiety on players of running into that guy at a tournament and then a to caving to him and you getting dq'ed.

>>48982328
>The card leaks suggest at least someone had the rules.
Translators leaked the cards.

>>48982328
>>48982473
I'm sorry. Proofreaders, not translators.

Just bought the Legion Battle group. Thinking of buying the Mk2 battlebox, and transitioning to this list. Is it any good?

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kryssa 1) Kryssa, Conviction of Everblight [+31]
- Neraph [12]
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
- Shredder [4]
- Shredder [4]
- Carnivean [19]
Beast Mistress [4]
- Shredder [4]
- Shredder [4]
Beast Mistress [4]
- Shredder [4]
- Shredder [4]
Hellmouth [6]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15]
- Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion [6]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]

>>48983493
>all those Shredders
>Neraph
Why? I mean, yeah you've already got them. But that's really it.

>>48982039

And one more thing to make the horror perfect-

Countertechs are selective-spectrum and are costed like they were the proactive techs they are supposed to respond to. The opponent sees the countertech you have paid for and put on table... and does something else. Modifies his play slightly to avoid counter. Overwhelms it with cheap probability fixes.

Gaurenteed effect broad-spectrum countertechs don't exist in-faction (ex: Agonizer, if it had self-sacrifice and shut down arc nodes); cheap countertechs don't exist in faction (ex: agonizer, if it were 4 pts- like jr). It's worthwhile to just play naked of support; you can gaurentee you're getting a definite return on your points.

>>48984435

I'd have liked to see [Grim Salvation: Titan] on Agonizers, if only to see what comes of it. I don't even titan-brick; it'd certainly get the bugs back off the table, though. Or not. Gunlines are real.

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Mk3 Pistol Wraith in a casual setting, go.

>>48984564
I dunno, just play it with Denny.

>>48982273
>They didn't want casual games without steamroller rules and netlisting because it didn't help them prepare for tournaments.

On the other hand, I found myself saying to a newbie and realize that I firmly believe that this game simply isn't balanced outside of steamroller. There are factions I simply wouldn't risk trying to introduce a player into the game with without a scenario to keep other factions honest. Caster-kill games aren't as casual friendly as you'd assume without thinking about it.

>>48984719
My issue is how RPS it gets with scenarios.

To the point I ask myself why bother playing Assassin Casters?

There is no possible way to make me enjoy this game every time I play it. I have to pray that my opponent is like minded as me and builds lists as generalist first, specialists second.

The game feels too lethal for scenarios and too imbal for assasination only.

The only way I feel I can enjoy the game is if i find a like minded individual that wants to switch up his gameplay instead of playing the same dick punch lists over and over.

>>48982371
>Its like the warmachine community hit this critical mass where everyone is constantly finding a new thing to complain about.

It's because PP announced one of their aims for Mk3 was cracking down on 'negative play experiences'. While that's an admirable goal, now everyone is coming out and claiming that the thing they like least about the game is a 'negative play experience' and should be changed or removed. It's gotten to the point where even I, a casual shitter who plays casualmachine with two other guys and always hated Page 5, thinks the community needs to pull their boots up, git gud, and play the fucking game.

>>48984827
>I ask myself why bother playing Assassin Casters?
Because they're fun?

Realistically you're supposed to use your assassin to threaten scenario or to force your opponent to keep their models back.

Look at Butcher3 for example. His whole kit is built around murdering your shit and forcing you to stay back

>>48985826
The community certainly is a negative part experience. Can we remove that?

>>48985826

It turns out one of the negative play experiences they identified was your list full of ranged weapons shoots and nothing fucking happens. So now there is fuck all to keep that from happening, and there is the positive play experience of your list full of ranged weapons shoots and models gets removed, even if the other player spent a comparable amount of points to specifically keep it from happening.

>call me a liar if that isn't a negative play experience

>>48985859
They are only fun when they don't get shut down.

B3 is an exceptionally good assassin caster, so he can actually threaten the squishy control casters.... most others can't or are out controled.

It just feels like the stuff I like is easily shut down by clever maneuvering while the stuff I don't like hamstrings you through rules interactions.

...and it feels like it's been like this for years and MKIII was my last hope of it changing.

Oh well. There is always chess.

>>48985922
>call me a liar if that isn't a negative play experience
It is THE negative play experience. Might aswell play 40k with how dumb it is.

Honestly they just need to split True/Eyeless sight in two. Completely excluding forests from it was a good start but the 2 primary anti-shooting tech non-Circle factions can invest in being cancelled out by a single rule makes that rule one of the most bonkers strong in the game for anything with a ranged weapon. It just feels weird with the stated design goals of Mk3 that there isn't separate rules for ignoring clouds and stealth.

How can I best make Gunmages work in a list that isn't just "hurr durr convert them into Trenchers". Who's the best caster to force gunmages with?

Well I find this state of affairs ammusing - cygnar was never as top tier as cryx - now its the other way around bich much cryxies :D ?

>>48986972
There isn't one, play Trenchers

>>48986972

I heard something on the Stormchamber podcast, but I don't play Swans so I wasn't paying much attention. Might have been Haley2, which they tell me doesn't mean much of anything,as the most important thing about Haley2 lists is Haley2. And Thorn.

Do we do painting C&C here? Or do people just get shoveled out the door? I'd like to post some models and see what you guys think before I commit to my whole army.

>>48987605
Sure, why not.

>>48987579
Gunmages will work with H2. They add more control to her control.

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>>48987627
Dope.
I tried to set up lighting for my shitty cell phone camera. They are pretty dark, but Im not really sure how to make them brighter without making them gawdy. I went for a dirty look on the crusader, especially around the pipes, because its the metal cast and older chassis.

Any C&C welcome.

>inb4 fukn terribl kid.

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>>48987605
No one ever posts their painted stuff here, not sure why, but I wish more people would

>>48987787
I really like the bases. But I think the dip doesn't really work that well. The purple would look better without it (or with a purple ink instead) and it's a bit uneven on the rest. The highlights on the metal could be a bit thinner and more even.

I think with a few small improvements it'll look great.

>>48987842
Because no one cares. Wip threads exists to dump pictures. Unless it's some kind of tutorial or thread topic, there's no reason for anyone to whip out their camera and bother with loading it to the web.

I guess narcissism can make you post crap if want to flaunt it. Eh.

Also talking about misery of game state is the typical PP crowd favorite topic

>>48988234
>dip
What is dip? They are only base coated, washed and drybrushed.

>>48988250
Then the wash. I thought for a second it was Army Painter dip.

>>48988242

Don't knock content, anon.

>>48988316
Anything to keep the thread alive

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>>48988242
That's pretty cynical. Sharing painted armies and chatting about hobby stuff is way better than bitching about stupid shit

Here have another Troll

>>48988242
I avoid Warmahordes threads because it's just nonstop bitching all the time. I don't care about you bitching about the rules for your shit painted army or unfinished metal gargantuan you've owned for a year because it blew shit up good. Show us the effort you put into the hobby if only as a break from the constant whining over rules for your army men.

>>48987842
beautiful work anon. if i had my way these threads would be at LEAST a 50/50 split between gameplay whining and hobby talk.

Last time I posted my paint stuff I got told my stuff was shit and to work on my blends.

I figured no one cared so I stopped posting.

Whats a noob friendly Skorne list? I traded a guy at my LGS and have pretty much the entire faction but no idea where to start. Casual Steamroller next weekend seems good as anywhere to deep end myself.

Here's what I don't get, if everyone is so against the new edition, any can't you play with the mk2 rules? It's not like anyone is forcing you to switch.

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My new Avatar >>48973959
But before i pinned the legs tight.

>>48990180
Sell your stuff back. There is no noob friendly Skorne list. Only pain and suffering at the bottom of the trash heap.

>>48990252
This isn't warhams where you make a day out of it. You are expected and likely want at least two games per night and you can only play pickup games with new rules.

>>48990252
People want to play mk2 even less

>>48989606
People in the internet are dicks, don't let that stop you from sharing your hard work.

>>48989606
Did you work on your blends?

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>>48990982
Meh. It's odd when you are the only one posting.

Long ago I had a robutt that would make these threads and post WIPs but it broke pretty quickly and eventually I couldn't be arsed to figure out the catch prompt every 2 days or so.

I just fell out of love with the game after a while and kind of keep it around because I like the setting even if I don't gel well with the playerbase.

>>48973441
>Tried playing Skorne still and got my shit pushed in worse than in mk2.
I'm the king of my LGS with Skorne.

>>48991262
I'm glad that some people can still make them work. When I play them now, it feels like I'm struggling to get everything to pull its weight.

>>48991415
The trick is in realizing that very few models are worth fielding, but the ones that are, are quite good. Sadly this means a lot of lists will look very similar and the faction will soon boil down to 3-4 warlocks worth fielding. Rasheth, Xerxis1, Morghoul1, and Makeda3 are where the money's at. A Xerxis1 Cetrati brick with an Agonizer behind it is nigh-impossible to kill, even by heavies. Pseudo-26ARM on feat turn is just dumb. An Enraged Bronzeback wouldn't damage that on average rolls.

>>48991496
Skorne does in fact have some good shit. Tiberion and the gladiator are pretty bad ass, void spirits under mordikaar look savage (I haven't played them yet), and karax and reivers are legitimate infantry that punch at their weight class very well.

I'm not on the ferox train yet, and I feel like the cetrati brick is over costed compared to man o war. The rest of the options have serious flaws.

>>48991782
As much as Void Spirits under Mordikaar are indeed S A V A G E, Mordikaar himself is very underwhelming in Mk3. Essence Blast means little when people are bringing less infantry, Revive means less when the model can't attack that turn and your most expensive infantry, Cetrati, get nothing else from him and with their own recent DEF nerf get even less from his feat. And so many good casters have feats that negate Mordikaar's that it's just a dice roll man. I'd put him in the mid to low tiers of Skorne right now.

>>48991782
I think Tiberion is overrated at the moment. A lot of the time I'd rather just bring another Gladiator and have 8 points of solos to fuck around with.

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Banned from the forums.

Is it bad that I feel ok with this?
sucks not being able to check the rules board though

>>48992073
I think the Bronzeback is better.

Is it worth getting back into the game these days /tg/ ?

I currently own

Mercs
-Fiona
-Damiano
-A Nomad
-Boomhowlers
-Cylena&Nyss
-Kayazy Eliminators
-WE&SJ
-Aiyana&Holt
-DiBray
-Gorman
-Sylyss Wyshevdjzgauayr
-That blowpipe dude
-Hawk

Cygnar
-pStryker
-pHaley
-Ironclad
-Lancer
-Charger
-Minuteman
-ATGM/The Dude

Are my figs still playable with minor investment ? I heard they nerfed access to mercs by making buffs faction only, so I guess no more AS boomhowlers. Plus said boomies got nerfed a bit already...
Honestly idk what yo do. Should I get the MKIII decks or sell everything ?

>>48992417
I can't justify a Bronzeback unless I'm bringing a herd of titans already, like Cannoneer + 2 Gladiators. The 4 extra points lets me save 2 points on Handlers since he manages fury now rather than autopassing frenzy which didn't make the fury drop off.

>>48992410
So uhh... not gonna give us a name for your forum account?

I always wondered what happened to those banned.

>>48991496
My meta is mostly Cygnar, Ret, and Khador with a side of Mercs. And I don't feel like I can make a two list pair that can actually cover those matchups. It feels worse than playing in mk2, where I could at least have some game. But it feels like now, I'm playing even further uphill while my opponents just casually get to do everything they want on their turns with models that are strictly better than anything I can field. It's beyond frustrating.

>>48993011
At the moment I'm just system skewing with my 2 lists and it's doing fine for me. Against Hordes I run Hexeris1 with double max Handlers (they're actually pretty gross as anti-infantry AND for messing up beasts) as well as things good against living models like Void Spirits to ensure they're always effective against nouns if needed. For Warmachine I just dump a Xerxis1 Cetrati brick on the table with a bunch of heavies and some Gremlin Swarms, then challenge my opponent to deal with the brick before it makes its way to their caster.

It feels like Skorne kind of has to do this as otherwise some quite good casters like Hexeris1 risk running into Warmachine factions, which they just cannot deal with effectively. Maybe it's just that I fucking love Hexeris1 though.

I find the issue with Cygnar, Ret, Khador, and to a lesser extent Mercs is that they're factions that can literally field fucking anything because they do so many things well, so you can't really plan against them. Compare that to Skorne where your opponent knows you'll be relying on low DEF high output elephants because your infantry is sub-par.

>>48992691
Of course not. You guys will just call me a faggot and definitely not a cool one like Freddie Mercury.

>>48993382
Well at least tell us what you were banned for. The forums have all sorts of naysayers and shit stirrers, so it usually takes a but if effort to anger mods to the point of banning.

>>48992008
He'd be good as an anti-hordes warlock if Naaresh didn't do it better.

>>48993419
Disrespectful posting. Spent all day at work being shit to people so I don't know what straw broke the back

>>48993509
>>48993419
Wait, I think I figured it out.

On the rules forum someone was asking about how artillerist work and the order the dice get rerolled for deviations.

I posted that he shouldn't bank on mkii ruling unless the infernal says it since they are the same people that changed broadside to allow targeting flare for some reason.

I found the post deleted and it was the last thing I posted so I'm figuring that.

God, i love playing skorne - I can lose and not worry about exerting myself. Instead, I can enjoy the company of the people at the FLGS.

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>>48995896
tfw successfully fighting off 5 khador heavies (inc. behemoth) with Makeda3, a bronzeback, and rhinodon (+ agonizer, PGBH support).

Skorne is for hard mode.

>>48996414
>rhinodon

I was believing your story just fine, but this strains credulity. What exactly is its role in your list? What made you include it over any other warbeast at your disposal? Or was it solely a matter of having just that man points left over after building the rest of your list?

>>48997303
Maybe he thought makeda3 should have spiny growth on her and he didn't own a razor worm

>>48976387
Bane knights(not warriors/thralls), satyxis blood witches+hag, nyss hunters

>>48976455
DJ yes, seethers never, inflictors are loads better.

>>48971945
whats broken this edition? I haven't played since pre gargantuan release but was thinking of getting back in

>>48997603
I honestly wouldn't say anything in Mk3 besides maybe Madrak is any worse than stuff in Mk2.

Of course, the goal was to not have the kind of shit Mk2 had.

>>48997603
Ret, Khador and some of Cygnar. And I do disagree with the previous poster. Some of that IS as horrible as Wold War or Body and Soul.

>>48997609
i was never really a power gamer, i just always played irusk2 with pikemen and riflemen and jacks that looked coolapparently they are good now?

>>48997647
I'm not saying it's better, because yea, there's some bullshit. Just that nothing is worse.

>>48997665
Yea, that's super good right now.

>>48993509
Im guessing its not Oncouch1 because he barely even knows what the internet is.

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>>48997647
>Ret
>broken
Just kill their caster, man.

>>48997603
Steamroller scenarios are busted.
fewer scenarios have killbox and linbreaker basically means that guns are pure cancer.

Basically the power has shifted, but shifted in very illogical directions.
Caine 2, Madrak 2, Rasheth, Ossyan, aka, shit that didn't need any buffs got even fucking stronger for some reason.

Winterguard Rifle Corp are the best offensive shooting unit in the entire game by a ridiculous margin.

Cryx got shat on hard in general

Trolls can't fucking buff each other.

It's less about whether there's imbalance or not, but more of WHY. There's so many rudimentary mistakes in design or balance that makes you question whether if any playtest was done and whether PP even plays the game.

>>48997673
>Just that nothing is worse.
You're probably right. What sours it for me is that I was expecting Mk3 to be better than Mk2. But it's just a different kind of bad. That all my stuff got majorly shit on in the dumbest possible way just adds to the personal frustration.

>>48998028
Skorbe, I presume?

>>48998389
Yeah. The NPC faction.

Hey I am looking to mod my Cylena Raeyfall and Nyss hunters to look more Ret, what should i mod them with i was thinking stormfall bows but i don't know what to substitiute the swords with. Oh and would it be a good Idea to replace the heads with dawn guard or Houseguard heads?

>>48998515
The armor may be the biggest thing to change.

>>48997303
1st I wanted the animus for Makeda, and don't have a razor worm yet (not that that would be any use agaist khador heavies). 2nd I was just going to use it for transfer damage so Makeda could go balls out up front (seeing what the new behemoth can do changed that plan). 3rd experimenting for the sake of it (I really wanted to use my rhinodon).

I did also have a titan in the list, but it got taken out early. A 2nd one would have been better then the rhino, but it'd also be more tempting send it out to duke out some dmg before getting KO'd. Instead I ended up baiting my opponent around buildings, where Makeda3 did most of the damage against the heavies. The rhino did pretty much jack besides getting in some throws. Probably won't see any play again till mk.IV.

Still, seeing as my opponent dropped 5 heaves to my 3, (his also had ranged weapons) I think i played that one well.

>>48993472
Excuse me but Naaresh is easily the worst warlock in Skorne, and quite possibly the entire game. At least Morghoul2 has a cohesive plan. Naaresh is just a pile of bad spells with a gimmick that involves him wanting to get right up front but not being very survivable.
>Just whip him, Anon!
So now I'm spending 7 points on Handlers to support him. And if you want extra Cyclone distance that's another 6 points for a TyCom. 13 points to support a warlock that can only stand still and hope things are within 1" of it.

>>48997465
They kinda sorta fixed Seethers with the errata. You can't really directly compare them to Inflictors either because they occupy completely different roles, but yeah a point spent on an Inflictor will probably bring more value on average than a point spent on a Seether. Same could be said of most Cryx jacks.

>>48999340
>Excuse me but Naaresh is easily the worst warlock in Skorne, and quite possibly the entire game.
He has a semblance of game into gunlines and heavy spam. Which is more than you can say about most Skorne warlocks.

>>48999472
Skorne doesn't need a warlock to help with heavy spam. That's literally why you make sure to bring 4 elephants every game. Gladiators are cheap, spam them. And if you want to play into gunlines, bring Aradus.

>>48999489
>Skorne doesn't need a warlock to help with heavy spam.
We are talking about Mk3, right?

>>48999506
Yes. Is there a problem? A Gladiator with Enrage will still clean up most heavies. Any it doesn't clean up probably cost a lot more points than it. Do you grade warlocks by how many spells they have which increase damage output?

>>48968403
For what is worth my friends are still playing even if the show we were playing closed and we had to found another place.

Personaly I am on pause, I prefer doing other things in summer.

But even if I have a lot of things to buy for my RoS I will wait January. Before commiting other money to the game I need to see how PP address balance Errata and the new Theme Force then I can decide if continue or dropping.

For now I am more leaning on dropping, I reached WM for the balance, seeing what they have done with Balance in MKIII really make me reconsider PP skill.

>>48999536
>A Gladiator with Enrage
Costs about 16 points and has a very real chance of not killing heavies significantly cheaper than it.

>>49000011
It's closer to 15 points, and please name one cheap heavy that a Gladiator can't kill. PS17x1, and PS18x6 is plenty to kill just about anything.

>>49000083
Anything with an ARM buff. Also, killing ARM20 is not really certain.

>>49000083
Any amount of Khador Juggernauts, who will probably kill the Gladiator right back easily while costing less.

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>Mfw Ret player makes 3 of my jacks stationary, then knocks two of them down and then disrupts the last one every turn.

Do i want Lady Aiyana & Master Holt for Menoth?

>>48999387
Seethers dont really occupy any role thst I can discern. Cost as much as the inflictor but is def12, arm17. So it cant get to the fight, really, is an inch slower and cant preform any cheap power attacks. Yeah, it charges for free and has 3 initials. Okay.

For 2 points more you get barathrum who is a pretty cool jack with terminus & gaspy3.

>>49002090
I've been really impressed with Barathrum in mk3. Very survivable for a Cryx jack.

>>48974688
>Probably the only balance issues plaguing GB atm are Fillet,Obulous and Avarice and Greede.

Can you elaborate why? I´m a foreigner, but like the idea of GB.

>>49000083
No, it's closer to 16 points. You can't buy a single beast handler, you have to take the unit and it's not likely that every beast handler is doing something every turn.

At mat 6, you're missing on average 2 swings against a def 12 heavy such as an ironclad. Also, it's 17x1, 18x5 because you don't charge for free. So assuming the charge attack doesn't miss, that's 10.5+6+7+7, which just barely kills an ironclad on average dice, which is one of the weaker heavies.

Against arm 20, you're doing 8.5+4+5+5+5+5, 32.5 boxes, a Khador jack has 34. If the juggernaut still has cortex and right arm then you will guaranteed die in return. And you better hope you don't roll a 3 to hit or you're super fucked. About a 10% chance for each of those 6 attacks to miss.

Both of those jacks cost 4 points less than the gladiator plus beast handlers.

>>49002411
GB has a really good thing going on at the moment with their game system and that's alternating activations.

There are 6 player slots available to a team with a captain and mascot requred. Each one of those models gets an activation.
For the remaining 4 you can pitch from eligible players.

Avarice and Greede(AnG) are unique in that they give you two players for that one player slot...therefore giving you an extra activation.

What that does seems innocuous at first, but the advantage of having an extra activation becomes apparent in always giving you the final activation should the opposing player not have AnG. So all the tourney lists have him because you can't afford to be put activated turn after turn.

Steam forged will be fixing them in the next update to the game.

Obulous is just the eHaley problem of messing with the opponents positioning and activation order alongside being really really powerful the more skilled the player is. His characters play and toolbox are simply too good to play against effectively.

Fillet is similar, but more akin to Butcher3. Insane threat range and difficult to stop without hamstringing yourself. She focuses on pinpoint damage and Damage over Time effects.

>>49003012
>>49002411
Also I guess it deserved a mention, but Steam forged actively look at the problems in the scene and tweak balance accordingly in a yearly basis. They are not triggershy like PP was prone to doing in MKII.

They offer all their cards for free for ease of printing. They even offer little paper dolls for ease of proxy or playtest.

That said, GB will never scratch that WMH itch completely. It's a great game for strategy and tactics and you continuously grow as a player when playing it but the scale of a larger skirmish is not there. I can see a lot of the "pro-players" jumping to it to test their mental chops against others but the main draw of WMH will keep the guys in the middle interested for longer.

Alternative games are far and few that have rules as tight as WMH and scale to match.

>>49002677
>Also, it's 17x1, 18x5 because you don't charge for free
But you can slam for free, and if you get the slam in, KD will ensure your gauntlet attacks all hit without boosts. Still probably best to boost the slam attack roll, to ensure you get the knockdown.

>>49003833
And you're giving up two initials there and also don't get the boost from charging. Not a good deal in most cases.

>>49003833
So you slam the target and now have 1 17 and 4 18s and no charge attack. 3 18s if you boost the slam. If you boost the slam then you're not even doing enough damage to kill an arm 18 heavy.

>>49004003
You will have knocked it down, however. Which either eats its movement/action next turn, or burns a focus. If you cripple the cortex, it can't use focus, and you remove a lot of its bite.

Yes, it would be best to kill an enemy heavy, but sometimes crippling it is enough to get the job done.

>>49004110
Who cares about forfeiting? If you punched it after knocking down then it just sacs movement to stand and punches you back. Your entire logic process is flawed

>>49004110
I think you're forgetting that mechanics are really good a super relevant this edition

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Hows it look.
The idea was to attmept to tech against wormwood, but I'd want the list to be strong into other matchups as well.
Until the revelator comes out I'd probably use reckoner+vanquisher instead, and then either add another vassal or upgrade to Blessing of vengeance.

>>49003494
PP was a lot of things about balance changes in Mk2, but triggerish they were not. They made barely any changes up until the end of the game.

>>49004856
Read your post wrong, sorry.

But really want to see what PP does for actual balance changes though, if they're actually willing to bite the bullet

>>49004856
triggerish!=triggershy

>>49003012
I super miss battltetech's system, and wish warmachine would adopt it.

I really wish it would just go to a hex system instead of measurements though. Hex grids fix all sorts of stupid bullshit

>>49004973
I've been trying to get people to play battletech locally with very few takers

I've got a full battalion of mechs

>>49004801
Whats so special about Wurmwood? I am interested since i am a starting Circle player.

>>49007351
his feat is 14" of fuck you, since you can only see so far through forests and pathfinder isn't super common in a lot of factions.
Plus it also gives most of his force concealment, and therefore prowl.
And thats just his feat. He also has a potent spell list, and a free arcnode

I looked through the Privateer Press youtube channel, but I didn't see any painting tutorials. Are those on a different channel?

>>49008556
They're in the faction books

>Not using Titan Gladiator slams as assassination tech

>>49008758
>doing anything besides charging and buying melee attacks.
No. That is not Hoskune

>>49008823
Nigger my favourite warlocks are Mordikaar and Hexeris, FUCK your hoksune.

>>49008680
Downloaded the Legion one, it was kind of scanty. I mean the full out, do this then this then this painting tutorials, where does Privateer Press put those?

>>49008929
Honestly you're overthinking it.
>Assemble with super glue
>Prime model (I do all mine by hand with a brush, shit saves SO much money)
>Paint model with base colours
>Put some wash onto it
>Go over your base colours again to make them look lighter
Bam done.

>>49009088
But the Legion book says I should mix my own base colors out of multiple paints. That's outdated right? Privateer Press has their own paint line, what's the point of that if they can't do a "Legion Flesh Basecoat" color?

>>49009134
Yeah PP's line of paints is very wanting, especially in the area of washes. Speaking of washes, the local Legion player here basically painted his beasts in washes over a light basecoat. I think he just painted white then washed with purples and greens and it looks good. He basically uses wash as paint. But you'll need to go outside PP's range for that. Citadel is probably easiest if you have a GW nearby.

And books are for cucks.

>>49009134
You should mix bases to get base colors appropriate for the minis.

>>49009088
I think the problem is that if you want to improve, you need to work on practicing actual painting techniques until you get a feel for them.

Just saying "base coat it, wash it, and give it a quick highlight" is okay to start off, or if you don't want to focus on painting, but for the hobbyist side of things, it's a far cry from wanting to reach the higher skill levels.

>>49009134
Mixing your own colors saves you a lot on money, and gives you pretty much any color you could ever want to work with. Faction paints can be used as a starting point, but if you want to really improve your painting, you'll need to learn to mix paints to get your ideal colors and blends.

>>49009203
I've literally never painted a miniature before. The Battlegroups and everything made me think Warmachine/Hordes was newbie friendly, I guess I just assumed that would extend to the modeling aspect too.

>>49009290
It still can be. Most factions have starter paint sets that come with 6 colors that tie the faction together, similar to the studio schemes.

Then get a brush or two, and some primer, and you're well on your way to beginning to paint.

If you're just starting out, no one should fault you for lightly priming the model, giving it a basecoat, a wash, and highlighting. That said, the more you practice painting, and the more you practice advanced techniques, the better you will get at it, and the further you will go.

You generally want to practice the basics and get them down really well before moving onto advanced techniques. For some tutorial help, specifically with WarmaHordes, try taking a look at Ghool's tutorials.

http://handcannononline.com/blog/author/ghool/

http://handcannononline.com/blog/2016/06/20/ghools-painting-tips-thin-paint-apply-base-coat/

>>49009480
I think I might just go with Games Workshop stuff. They do the step by step tutorials and make all the colors you need to paint their stuff.
Maybe after I'm good at just basic painting stuff I'll take another look at Warmachine/Hordes

>>49009550
Glad and enjoy the massive hole in your wallet

>>49009674
Glhf*

>>49009674
Yeah, that's really annoying. I wanted to start with Warmachine/Hordes because it's so much cheaper.

>>49009134
It's not really out dated, more like a standard technique everyone uses.

I use primarily citadel/Vallejo paints and constantly utilize that technique among others to paint my models.

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>>49009290
If you want an easy guide, this is a good method for beginners - as long as the model in question is armored or a robot, it looks good.

>>49009696
Then start with it. It's not quite as difficult to paint the minis as you seem to think it will be.

>>49009696
Yo dude, paintings not so hard, don't let these hosers get you down. Here's a pretty basic overview of painting miniatures and some terms you'll need to know if you want to look up guides on youtube or wherever.

http://handcannononline.com/blog/2011/09/19/getting-started-in-warmachine-tier-3-painting/

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>just noticed my NDA is expired

Hey guys I worked in the warehouse for the 4 years following Mk2, AMA

>>49010516
A long time has passed since then. Do you actually know anything we don't already.

>>48999340
Uh, no he's not.

His feat is still great offensively and defensively, his spell list is pretty decent, especially with animi counting as spells now(Naaresh + Despoiler is a giant fuck you to hordes, for example), and he now can actually do his damage shit without murdering himself.

>>49010822
Have Plastic Iron Fang pikemen been announced yet

>>49011021
They're already out.

>>49010516
Did you interact with any of the more publicly known staff, and were they assholes?

>>49011238
All of them. We all saw each other in the mornings, break rooms, etc. The office/art people were cliquey of course but nobody was an asshole about it.

Every first Friday of the month the company would shut down at lunch and everyone would paint/play games together.

So yea I've talked with Seacat, Wilson, Dugas, Bourelle, Shick, Soles, etc

The only person who I'd say is an asshole would be DiPietro but that's just because he walks with his nose in the air

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>>49011443
>getting my ass handed to me by DC in the break room

>>49010106
That's cool, but I was looking for something like this, a step-by-step tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJaW_rQIS_s

>>49011903
well, google is your friend in this regard :)

>>49011443

Is their any particular reason that PP seems to have ugly breaks with staff?

>>49013185
Welcome to the world of nerds with egos.

>>49013185
The entire company is a vanity company for Matt Wilson. The trickle down effect is all from him.

>>49013185
Any one in particular you can think of? I might have been thre during

>>49014487
Not the same anon, but I seem to recall a sour split with whoever it was that sculpted the Despoiler.

Allegedly an anonymous artist from PP was on another board, and pretty much said they all hated working with him, and that they were glad he was finally gone.

However, someone claiming to be him was on /tg/ and said he hated everything about it, but Ron wouldn't give him any opportunity to try and fix it, and it was constantly under (re)design by committee.

Also, a prophetic warning from the distant past of 2014
>Kelly, Ed and Jason are the worst 3 things to happen to PP and will, ultimately, be it's downfall (it's already started, BTW).
>They just don't have the experience to see just how much money the company is hemorrhaging.
>Privateer Press had grown beyond the current capabilities, knowledge and experience of it's current management staff but those same managers refuse to admit this and step aside so other, more competent and experienced staff can move the company forwards.

https://warosu.org/tg/thread/35526476#p35553351
for those that want rumors of how shit PP is behind the scenes.

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>>49014692
Ok. Funny.

I'm actually the one that posted about us bringing the 'gw style plastic' and having the person respond with the Polystyrene spergout.

Another anon commented on the middle management which is absolutely true, they're incompetent and lazy. They refuse to take advice from people below them even if the changes would save time/money.

And the sculptor for the Despoiler I think who posted there "MechanicalHorizon" is Sean Bullough.

Which is also funny because he posted as Mechanical Horizon on Dakka Dakka and I found out he was posting to himself on another account talking up his skills as a sculptor

>>49014899
And imagine Sean Bullough as a Matt Ward style nerd with longer greasier hair who always wore those black cargo pants from Spencers with the chains

>>49014899
It's a small world, it seems.

>>49014487
I was wondering what happened with the Mcveys. Why Kevin Clark was fired/left? (i Heard it was incompitence, but meh) Why did Brian Snoddy just nope the hell out (as his Cryx art was outstanding)? Since your NDA went up, I'm guessing you don't have info on DCs exit.

Forums logic in a nutshell:

>I think these shitty models and casters are legit because gimmick / unrealistic expectations

>Disregard all reasonable logic because anecdotal evidence about how they won a game once with the gimmick meaning it must be high level tournament worthy

kk

>>48968403
Glad to see the thread's not dead.

>>49014899
Oh shit! Waddup?

Any more insight to the wonderful world of pain that is PP?

>>49015416
Welcome to forums. Whenever FFG's X-Wing forums aren't preoccupied with rules arguments fueled entirely by some person's failure to comprehend basic English, they're full of people patting themselves on the back for predicting model releases and their resulting effect on the game scene a whole three months after said releases have stabilized in the meta.

Just play the game and make your own conclusions before taking a look at the worst opinions the internet has to offer.