/srg/ Shadowrun General

>>48948786
>Untraditional Locations Edition: Where in the world have you gone, or wanted to go, chummers?
Miami, Moskva, and Atlantic City all seem like they'd be cool places to run. I'd add Vancouver to that, but it's NAN, so that sort of ruins everything.

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I found this thing on pintrest I figured it looked like something a runner might actually wear.

what movies, games, or other visual media do you go to for ideas regarding the look and feel of cyberpunk?

São Paulo.

I'd love to know what favelas look like in SR.

Well, Tir Tairngire is boring now, and Tir Na Nog seems to be going the same way. Less 'magic with facist oppression through minimal tech'. Bitch to run in, but whatever.

So if we can't get a heads up on the dragon tombs on the moon, I wouldn't mind getting a heads up on some new 'colony' cities based in the arse end of the world, or an update on the Australian fortress cities.

>>48948931
Only thing that comes to mind is the favela missions in Modern Warfare 2, which means swarms of angry assault rifle-toting BRs zerg rushing you from every angle imaginable, even (especially) from ones you thought you cleared.

>>48948859
what movies, games, or other visual media do you go to for ideas regarding the look and feel of cyberpunk?

From off the top of my head...
>Movies:
- The Matrix
- Ghost in the Shell
- John Wick
- Blade Runner
- Akira

>Games:
- Shadowrun Returns series
- VA-11 Hall-A
- Payday 2 (It's not EXACTLY Cyberpunk, but this is Shadowrun General. It's about a bunch of mercs with no faces, no names, and a shitload of guns.)
- Cyberpunk 2020 (It's a game. A Tabletop Roleplaying Game, but still)
- Deus Ex series

>Visual Media:
- Black Lagoon (Bu-but that's not muh Cyberpunk)
>It's as Shadowrun as it fucking gets, faggot. Now read my goddamn animu.

>>48948786
>Where in the world have you gone, or wanted to go, chummers?

Several metaplanes, LA, The Philippines/The South-East Asian Superarchipeligo...

Y'know, fun places.

>>48949138
you ever try the TV series called Leverage?

not cyberpunk, but it has the dynamics of a full runner team. albeit one that isn't as violent as most players would prefer

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>>48949138
Adding to this.

>movies
Strange Days
Johnny Mnemonic
Babylon A.D.
Repo Men
Blade Runner
Children of Men
Eastern Promises
The Way of the Gun
The Town
Heat
Ronin

>games
Both the Kane & Lynch games
Max Payne
Syndicate/ Syndicate Plus

>>48949138

I mean, it's pretentious/overhyped indie garbage, but Quadrilateral Cowboy has a very Shadowrun vibe to me.

>>48949138
>>48949258
Adding as well

>Games
FEAR
Cyberworld (Tabletop game)
Cyberspace (Another tabletop game)

>Literature
Neuromancer Trilogy (Duh)
Hardwired
When Gravity Fails
Mirrorshades Anthology

>Movies
Fletch (How to play the perfect face)
Hackers

>>48948786
>Untraditional Locations Edition: Where in the world have you gone, or wanted to go, chummers?
Neo-Tokyo (I requested it from the GM; after a big setup, they decided to then give the group a western AF Johnson who sent them to Seattle)
Lagos (it's Black Lagoon, chummerfraggers)

>>48948764
>Motion sensor trigger cannot be hacked
Motion sensors aren't perfect; they just force you to move very slowly and carefully. A good ultrasonic noise generator will help fool it into not seeing movement.

>>48949414
You're mixing up sensors meant to detect intruders and explosive triggers, omae.

>>48948931
Weren't most people in São Paulo forced to Metropole when Amazonia was founded?

Anyone ever do a run in Metropole? 200,000,000 people in one huge dilapidated city?

>>48949482
no, he's right... at least about the moving slowly part. not sure about the ultasound though.

generally IRL a sensor cannot be hacked, however the system it's connected to might be hackable, BUT if there is no way to remote access the system attached to the sensor then its as good as unhackable.

so unless the bomb has a remote-control, you aren't gonna hack that, so move very slowly chummer.

a hacker cant hack a tripwire, or a tumbler lock. there's no way for them to access it.

>>48949541
Jesus!

Core pg.182, Motion Sensor under Projectile Triggers. Nobody gives a fucking shit how slow or fast you (or your target) is moving; it's the grenade's variation in speed/direction as it hits something that sets it off. That trigger mode is unhackable, unlike the wirelesslink/wireless link + airburst.

And then, you have Motion Sensors under Sensors and Scanners pg. 361 where it actually matters how fast/slow you move.

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Worst day jobs for a shadowrunner to have.

>>48950050

Cop. Wait actually...

>>48950050
Basically anything worthy of the Fame (Global) quality. Having a real identity known world-wide isn't exactly the greatest thing in the shadows.

>>48950050
Bunraku doll.

What happens to augmentations (specifically high-grade bioware) when a character SURGE's? Does it fall out or does it fuse with their body or something like that?

>>48949573
You're right; somehow I got confused with demolitions explosives and anti-tamper stuff.
I wish Shadowrun would use some different names for things.

>>48950069
Depends where you're running. and how good you are at remaining anonymous.

>>48950214
RAW, nothing changes, high grade or not. SURGE in-game ruins characters in other ways.

You only lose rating points / unrated bioware when you catch HMHVV, because lol-fuck-Infected-PCs, eh Goodman?

>>48950214
I _think_ bioware gets dissolved inside the body. Even if not, I'm pretty sure all 'ware is rendered useless when you SURGE as a rule of thumb.

>>48950390
Or not. >>48950380 probably knows his shit better.

>>48950380
Fuck infected PCs.
One of the good changes in fifth.

Fuck infected, fuck metavariants and fuck every single player/dm who enables shit like this.

>>48950481
Everything besides the base 5 races was a mistake.

What's the point of using Full Auto when I can just use two 3 round bursts and have a better average damage?

>>48950619
Everything besides ork girls was a mistake

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>>48950681
The fuck did you say?

>>48950657
Assuming we're talking 5e, it's inflicting a larger defense penalty, so it's for pinning dodgy motherfuckers

>>48950701
Is there really ever a case where I'm going to find someone who can dodge better than I can shoot, assuming I'm a real hotshot? I'm in 4th edition, but from what I remember, dodging works the same in both editions.

>>48950681
Everything was a mistake

>>48950619
This.
I can sort-of live with metavariants, but metasapients and infected?
Fuck this shit.
Attracts special snowflakes like a Yaoi Forum does with fat girls.

>>48950709
Yes, especially if they are well setup for a certain kind of defensive maneuver or you're trying to shoot despite a bad situation.

>>48950709
The thing is that full auto is hella awesome.
the effects last till the end of the combat round, not just your turn.

Spray & pray the bad/good guys into cover and then have a team member, with an accurate and strong weapon, pick 'em of licke apples.

Or in case you have chrome/mojo or just really like your combat drugs and have 11/21/31 initiative. Lay down even more bullets and make the enemy unable to move at all. or just shoot them yourself, while they pray to the great spirit that the storm of burning lead, piss and vinegar will soon pass over.

>>48950875
You're talking about suppressive fire there, not full auto specifically. Full auto meaning the direct, one target one, not suppressive.

I'm well versed enough in squad tactics to know that suppressive is great.

I'm making an ex merc Ork who lugs around big guns. Looking at the weapons I should be aiming for as the campaign goes on, would I better with a FN-MAG-5 or go balls deep and pick up a Ruhrmetall when I can?

Cause that fucking HMG looks sexy as hell.

>>48948484
>Waaaaaait, how is this shit supposed to be costed? Do you have to use Enhanced, or just Customised?
>A drone limb may have the base drone’s starting attributes as much as doubled, no matter how many increases that is. The limb attributes may not go higher. (This means a Body 5 drone could have a strength increased from 5 to 10, ignoring the usual cap of +4 to an attribute, but may not go higher.)
>may have the limb's base starting attributes as much as doubled
Sounds like Customization to me, Yekka, with its talk of doubling base starting attributes, but it's not actually explicit.

Anyone have a pdf of the core rulebook?

>>48948931
>São Paulo.
>I'd love to know what favelas look like in SR.
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Metropole

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>>48950657
Okay, I *might* have it working. I don't have the stats visible or anything, but you can extrapolate based on the rating.
Give this a crack: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17469748/DroneLimbs.7z
>>48951172
Pastebin. We don't have the new version yet, because CGL have this slightly reasonable belief that if the PDF is available before the dead tree version nobody will buy it.

>>48950657
if 5e because:
>A character may fire a readied firearm in Semi-Automatic,
Single-Shot, Burst-Fire, or Fully-Auto mode via
a Simple Action (see Firearms, p. 424) but may not
take any other attack actions in the same Action Phase.
>but may not take any other attack actions in the same Action Phase

>>48950657
>Full Auto
>two 3 round bursts
Actually, Full Auto is the way to attack twice in a turn, at least in 5e, by splitting your attack between two targets.

>>48951304
It's 4E, where there are no attack limits. Did 5E really remove the ONLY thing saving Semi-auto and Burst from being garbage?

>>48951336
See above. In 4E you can use two three round bursts in one turn, on the same target or not.

Sorry, I should have specified.

>>48951357
>It's 4E
Then you're totally right. Shit's super poorly balanced, and you want to maximize your number of attacks and nothing else. Bursts and semi-auto are the objectively best firing modes for exactly that reason.

>Did 5E really remove the ONLY thing saving Semi-auto and Burst from being garbage?
It made it semi-balanced, you massive whiny retard. It turned them from being 'the objectively best firing mode, period, ever' into 'the firing mode you use when you also want to take a secondary action, or conserve your ammunition.'

>>48951357
no it intorduced stacking recoil, so burst and semi-auto have their use in dropping recoil

>>48951388
This

>>48951388
Shit, no need to be so hostile. I ask a question and you just have to be all high and mighty king dick over here.

I really don't think that conserving ammo is on anyone's mind in a Shadowrun game, and the secondary action usually isn't that big of a deal. As it stands, if you can only attack once with it, Semi-Auto and Burst are in nearly all ways inferior to Full Auto.

>>48951397
Stacking between IPs?

>>48951397
Eh, if you're not taking the firing option that's a Complex Action for your weapon, then you can ignore recoil by aiming before your shot.

>>48951487
>I really don't think that conserving ammo is on anyone's mind in a Shadowrun game
Then you're a moron. 'Shoot straight' and 'conserve ammo' are literally taglines for the game.

>and the secondary action usually isn't that big of a deal
It very much is. Things like 'taking cover,' or 'reloading your gun' are actions that they can be combined with.

>>48951495
that's exactly what I meant...the (real) full auto is complex, hence the use of burst and semi-auto (or the short full-auto) is being simple and thus dropping recoil in between attacks

>>48951528
And here I though you were talking about how they have lower recoil numbers and so it's easier to reach that number in terms of RC.

>>48951487
>Stacking between IPs?
stacking as long as you queue attacks without other non-free actions in between. That means IPs, turns, everything...

>>48951506
>Then you're a moron. 'Shoot straight' and 'conserve ammo' are literally taglines for the game.
Yeah, taglines. Have you EVER fucking ran out of ammo in a Shadowrun game? No, because it's cheap and plentiful. It's not like you're in the middle of Post-Nuclear Poland and running out of supplies, you've got a Stuffer Shack setting rows upon bloody rows of 8mm caseless at the end of every street. Using taglines as an excuse is just pathetic, and seriously, why in the unholy mother of hell are you so hostile? Are you mistaking me for the guy who ran over your dog or something?

Taking cover is a free action, reloading is only done once every three full auto bursts (10 rounds, assuming roughly 30 in your average mag). That means you use full auto for 3 rounds, then reload and use a semi or something because you don't feel like going a turn without cappin' an ass. That's really not all too useful.

>>48951541
Damn, going back to 2E rules there. Does anyone ever find it gets a little absurd to track, or has it generally been a non-issue?

>>48951586
>Have you EVER fucking ran out of ammo in a Shadowrun game?
Yes, because my GM isn't some stupid faggot who lets me sneak 600 rounds of ammo into somewhere strapped to me in the form of 20 different magazines ready for reloading.

>Does anyone ever find it gets a little absurd to track, or has it generally been a non-issue?
It's a non-issue, and keeps there from being One True Best way to shoot your gun.

>>48951586
it's usually a non-issue as you tend to not queue many (if any) complex attacks, exactly because recoil bites you in the ass hard if you do. So essentially the rule achieves its goal of deterring you from firing full auto all the time, while keeping the workload minimal because you have to apply the rule only sparingly.

>>48951610
Shit, you're being more belligerent than 1930's Deutschland over here.

Is 4E your Versailles equivalent?

>>48951647
Makes sense. I'm guessing not many people go for full auto all the time then, considering 9x2=18 is a pretty hefty ass penalty. Though considering a lot of people I know always make sure to stack RC to 7-8-9-ish, that could just all be for naught.

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>>48948786
>'Get out the good SIN, we're going tropical'

Great. I'm tired of this acid rain. Love to trade it for some skin cancer instead.

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>>48948272
The thing is that the skimmers don't propel you themselves. You need to 'run' with your actual legs, the skimmers just lift you up slightly so you don't get any friction/have to deal with tripping on the curb.

If your digigrade legs let you push off harder, you could theoretically glide farther with each stride, like an ice skater sliding down the Canal.

I am annoyed that the only digitigrade legs on humans I can find are pieces of furry costumes

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>>48950875
>Spray & pray the bad/good guys into cover and then have a team member, with an accurate and strong weapon, pick 'em of licke apples.

I understood 80% of that sentence, then you lost me right at the end.

>>48950714
Mistakes are a mistake.

Has anyone thought up any new mutated species in these threads? If so, which ones?

>>48951224
seems to be some program?

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>>48951941
>I am annoyed that the only digitigrade legs on humans I can find are pieces of furry costumes
Transhumanism is going to be funded and brought about by a lot of people I will want to be very far away from.

>>48950050
Lofwyr's emergency rations.

>>48948786
>Germany
>No hijabs or burkas in sight
>pffah

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>>48952761
Germany got their racism out in the open. The Dwarves get one duchy, the Trolls a kingdom, and the darkies get nothing. Now they're an economic superpower, without the albatross of the EU.

Are there any anti-mage weapon/armour/shield upgrades? I can't seem to find any.

>>48951962
Fair enough.

If you put a group of enemies under suppression fire they revive a reduction of their dice pool for EVERY action, including dodging and shooting back, as big as the successes of the roll for the supressin fire.

If the gunner knows what he is doing you can calulate with a reduction of 4-5 dice for their action. Your average enemy brings a evasion pool of 7 to 9 dice to the fight, meaning you take away half of it with the suppression fire.

This means the enemies are easier to hit for the party member with the big gun, like a sniper. Now your sniper buddy will have by default an easier time to penetrate the enemies armor and cause physical damage. But now, with the suppression fire, your sniper friend is A) more likely to hit and deal more damage and also B) less likely to get hit by the enemy trying to fight back.

>>48953553
All mages have an allergy against high powered metal piercing their body.
For more specifics:
FAB is about the only thing that works.

>>48953571
I got the general idea, but what in Ghost's name does "pick 'em of licke apples" mean?

>>48953580
>All mages have an allergy against high powered metal piercing their body.

Too true. That said, I was hoping for an armour version of that magic resistance quality.

(Still working on the radical Christian mage hunter, but decided to ditch the whole anti-mage aspect and go full knight with it, but now I need a way to make my sledge hammer, shield and armour less vulnerable to magic.)

>>48953634
what edition? in 4e there is Feywear (Magic resistance 1-4) which costs a ton (50000 per rating)

>>48953634
There is the Magic Resistance quality. I picked that up for my Infected hunter, works well so long as you get your own healing shit (I recommend a Saviour nanomedkit when you have the dosh).

>>48953619
He misspelled "off" and "like," probably posting from a phone. He probably meant that people pick apples out of trees, but they pick (shoot) the good (dangerous) apples (mages) and this metaphor is getting stretched

>>48953553
They're called 'bullets.'

>>48949374
>Hackers
>Listed unironically.

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>>48954068
>implying

How do you all fix technomancers?
One of my players has decided to play one, and I'd rather not screw them over too badly

>>48954098
I was expecting the black dude to start making out with him...

>>48954930
I just don't play them. Problem solved.

>>48954930
Give them the Skinlink echo for free, that should already help a lot.

>>48954930
Reduce Fading Values by 2, or make an echo that allows them to soak some of that Fade with something other than their brains. Let them have PANs.

Read the Dezzmont post on the SR forums.
http://www.shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/42995/technomancers-in-5th-edition

>>48953922
>>48953619
...just do the world a favor and kill mages

>>48954930
Where possible, reduce fading value by 1-2. Technomancer stack up Stun like nobodys business because everything they do carries the chance of gaining stun - physical combat, hacking, resonancing, and it all goes to the same track.

Work to increase the technomancer flexibility a little. One of their key problems is that everyone else can change their stuff around on the fly, adapt to problems or easily acquire items that boost their dice rolls to some extent. Technomancers get fewer complex forms than mages get spells, have no equivalent items or foci, can't upgrade their powers with any bought item or drug and their echoes have a hilariously specfic, niche limited effect. You can submerge for 30 Karma and get the ability to decrease noise in an area around you by 2 if you use Data Trails. That's awful, because you can buy a noise 2 jammer at every goddamn convenience store.

Where possible and Echoes have a specific effect turn the specific effect into resonance / 2 if it's better - it's weird that increasing techonmaner resonance via submersion in many cases does little to increase the power of their echoes and abilities. Resonance [Program] gives you 1 program slot, you use a complex form to [Thread Program] - software+resonance, sustained to mimic the effect of a single program the Technomancer must be aware of. If program gives a dice bonus or penalty total hits from test is the dice bonus this program gives so long as it is sustained up to a maximum of what the program could normally provide. Threading Agents with this is possible, but they work like spirits and roll rating x 2 dice where every hit is = 2x fade.

[CodeKludging] echo requires Thread Program, allows dice bonus to go beyond what that program could normally provide.

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>>48955204
Don't listen to him, folks. An Awakened society is the only way forward in the Sixth World. Join with us and help take control of the future!

>>48955493
All [Stat] increasing echoes are gone, replaced with
"Modular Brain" - increase one of your matrix stats by your rank in Modular Brain echo. Lasts until re-assigned by rolling software+resonance, extended test, 4 hours, 2 x amount of attribute to be re-assigned successes require (so 1 stat = 2 succeses, 2 stats, 4 succceses, etc etc). It means you can pre-prepare by moving your stuff around but you're not as fluid as a decker and for the most part you won't want to.
--

Resonance Veil can cause systems to accept faulty input by making it believe it has happened in the matrix - but any actual investigation will quickly reveal this as a weird software error (Ie it's the "make that vending machine spit out a soy-kaff can because it registers I just paid for it" complex form.

This differs from Puppeteer in that Puppeteer backs up the hack by manufacturing data whole sale. "Spit out a can of soykaff and log fully legal payment transfer".
--

Anyway, the above works for my group but fair warning they are notoriously gunshy and mostly reasonable. I'm 100% sure if exposed to the activities of other people, glaring loopholes develop.

>>48955584
>Resonance Veil can cause systems to accept faulty input by making it believe it has happened in the matrix - but any actual investigation will quickly reveal this as a weird software error (Ie it's the "make that vending machine spit out a soy-kaff can because it registers I just paid for it" complex form.
Considering just how close that skirts to puppeteer, I wouldn't go for it, and I'd start by suggesting players use RV to engage automated behaviour or fool users doing the something specific with the targeted device.

It's a "convincing illusion", which is to say, you can't interact with it.

>>48954930
My houserules:
>Technomancers: Technomancer is rated one lower on the priority table. Technomancers may run a program by "sustaining" it, suffering a -1 penalty to any action not related to that program. Technomancers can run a number of programs at one time equal to their RES/2 round down. Technomancers may switch programs as per a decker. Technomancers must buy the cyberdeck program, then succeed on a Software+Resonance (4, 1 hour) test to crack and memorize the software. Technomancers start with a +1 bonus that they can apply to a matrix attribute, and they can move this bonus point between their matrix attributes as a decker can swap matrix attributes. Each time a technomancer undergoes a submersion, they gain a further +1 bonus which can be combined or spread among their matrix attributes as they wish. The "upgrade" echos are no longer available to be taken.

My group's technomancer doesn't really use resonance abilities, so I've not had a need to introduce a fix for fading damage. I've decided to keep skinlink as an echo.

>>48951700
He's got a point though; how are you carrying that much ammo? You got a troll buddy passing clips?

>>48956645
Well, it's not hard. You just might stand out on the street wearing a tac vest and having all those mags or belt packs attached to you.

You should be able to carry a good 200 or so rounds like that. I've yet to see a player use more than 60 rounds in a session without suppressive fire.

How much power do nations still have in SR? I know it varies by nation, but let's take Germany, CAS, and UCAS as examples.

What do the militaries even do these days? And are they little more than outlets for the military-industrial complex (more so than today)? How about the IRS? I remember reading something about them becoming incorporated (I think) and being even more scary than they are now. What about other governmental agencies like the FBI and CIA?

What are the rules for shooting guns while in melee? Are there opportunity attacks for leaving? I haven't found anything on this.

>>48956700
I believe 600 rounds were what was referred to, not 200.

>>48956812
what edition?
In 4e it's a negative dpm when trying to shoot outside while in melee and a positive dpm when trying to shoot your melee opponent

>>48957032
Sorry, meant 5th ed.

>>48957032
Point Blank is +2.
>Note that this may be offset by the Attacker in Melee Combat modifier.
That's -3, for net -1 shooting your melee opponent.

>>48952386
Que? It's a 7zip archive.

>>48956767
It varies wildly by nation. For example, the UCAS is a big fucking deal. Ares earns a majority of its profits through government contacts in the UCAS and CAS, for example, and the only reason why Aztechnology is a serious threat to the sovereignty of the Americas is because it wields the greater nation of Aztlan like a sword - and that kind of threat is also went the UCAS keeps a standing army.

But nations that still wield that kind of power are very much not the majority worldwide.

>>48956645
For one, it's very difficult to actually use a lot of ammo, as >>48956700 said.

Second, tac-webbing can carry a pretty damn large amount of magazines. Six in the webbing and one in the gun nets you with 210, which is pretty much more than anyone is going to use on a typical run.

I myself never said I carried 600 rounds around, that was him exaggerating. 200 rounds in Shadowrun might as well be infinite, and there's never a shortage of places to buy ammo if you need more after a run.

>>48958721
You're talking about burning 10 ammo per attack with fully automatic fire. 210 ammo isn't anywhere close to infinite.

>>48958845
I find myself typically using a mag per firefight. So that's a guaranteed 7 firefights I can go through, which is typically more than you'll encounter in a single run. Prolonged firefights just aren't that viable in CQB.

>>48958874
I could see this when going maximum black trenchcoat, where if it weren't for occasional twists thrown at you by the GM you wouldn't even need a street sammy or physad in the crew.

Is there way to install a bow into a cyberlimb? I would have thought it would be in Chrome Flesh but they don't have bows in there.

>>48959089
But I really don't go maximum black trenchcoat. Typically, you only need 1-2 attacks on any given mook to kill him, and you typically aren't outnumbered. There's also the added use of grenades and such of course, which also, are easy to carry around and don't run out all too often.

>>48959284
>you typically aren't outnumbered
??
How many people are you that you usually AREN'T outnumbered?

>>48959339
Five? Typically you don't fight more than five other people at once.

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So never really played SR (tabletop) before, but are Vehicle Riggers basically doomed to be either kinda left out most of the time or really more of "Samurai or Decker with a sweet car"?

Seems like vehicles usually wouldn't get much play, especially if things go quiet/well.

>>48959425
The trick when playing any one trick pony in any system is to be creative and make your own fun.

In this case, it might involve vehicular manslaughter.

>>48959200
>The year of 207X
>Using bows
Fucking NANs

How broken is pic related? I would still use Body tests for resisting shots (With a minimum of 1P damage done, if the bullet penetrates the armour), but what if armour was just all automatic successes? It makes a bit more sense to me, as it makes armour a lot more consistent, like it typically is, but I don't know how much is fucks up balance.

Perhaps that rule combined with the universal +2DV?

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>>48959596
I'm an idiot, forgot pic.

>>48959516

Hypothetically, trolls with cyberarms could reach strength 13 (unless there's some way to get that last point of strength and hit their augmented maximum?). That makes bows a 15P AP -4 weapon in their hands, which puts it on par with. or slightly better than, most sniper rifles. All I want is a way to fit the whole kit and kaboodle into a cyberarm for portability, is that too much to ask?

>>48959425

Depends how much you specialise into vehicles. From what I can tell, there's usually enough room to pick up a secondary area of expertise, and rigger gives you easy access to drones, so you could go down the whole drone commander route instead of being a hacker or a street sam.

>>48959725
>Bows have roughly the same damage as Assault Cannons
Foiled again.

>>48959725
>That makes bows a 15P AP -4 weapon in their hands

Scratch that, missed the line that states that they max out at Rating 10. That caps them out at 12P AP -3, just short of what most sniper rifles achieve.

I'd be willing to try and argue a cyberlimb bow should be able to go above and beyond that though, given that they can use the limb itself as structural support.

>>48959774

Not quite, due to the Rating 10 cap. If you could get a Rating 14 bow, then maybe, though most assault cannons sport much better AP. The arrows are much cheaper though.

If one wanted to make a character that was like a Paladin, how does Mystic Adept sound? You can use spells for utility + assisting allies, while using Adept powers to hone your combat abilities.

If one went down this path, what would be must have essentials? Melee isn't strictly required; sure, it fits paladins more, but it's the future. Could easily see one using a crossbow at the very least.

>>48959890
Go houserule one

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>>48948852

I played around with Saigon a bit. That was fun.

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>>48948852

I think Miami could be cool, depending on what you did with it. If I wanted to do Miami Vice/Scarface pastiche, that'd be fun, but I'd actually consider using Havana for that instead. Miami, in my head, well, you know how global warming is supposed to sink it? Imagine a city of 10 ft underwater houses and buildings. Running with automatic spearguns, stealth wetsuits, and so on, playing hide and seek with scuba gangers and their selkie boss in the kelp and oyster farm.

>>48960000

Holy crap I got quints

>>48959749
I agree. With a bit of ingenuity, you can find a place in the team, that goes beyond being the driver.

One of my past riggers would deploy a mortar on his flatbed and use it to shoot miniaturized glider drones above the target area, granting low profile recon.

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>>48959382

lol

>>48956767

India's by far the biggest nation standing in terms of population, and has to be pretty close to that economically as well. And yet it gets little attention. It's a shame.

>>48948931
>>48949530

I thought Metropole had swallowed up SP and Rio.

>>48960205
India is a nuclear wasteland in Shadowrun, remember?

Also, India's real world economy is trash, and having a large population means nothing in the 21st century.

>>48960162
>Imagine a city of 10 ft underwater houses and buildings.
That's some of the crappier districts of LA iirc.

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>>48950619

Now see, I disagree here. I really like some of the nonhuman races. When I ran the above Saigon game, the naga were fairly important. I also really like the animal shapeshifters as a thing, although I think the ruleset tends to bollox it up a new way every edition.

>>48960285
It is? I thought there was still shit going on with the nartaki there.

>>48960285

That's Khalistan, dude.

>>48960308

Yeah, El Infierno of pre-4E

>>48959382
chummer, if you only have five enemies at a time, without backup, of which all go down in one hit you shouldn't be thinking "Okay let's go on with the plan"
It should be "Fuck, it can't be this easy. There HAS to be some catch"

>>48960435
Yes, because most places field 50 guards, who all converge on one location at the same time. All of said guards are also of course wearing ballistic plate armour and wielding assault rifles.

>>48960313
I find that no one ever does anything interesting with them, and it ends up being used to make waifus, minmaxies, or other such undesirable things.

>>48959596
It's pretty nasty.

To get a quick estimate of what it does, roll out an attack like normal, only give the guy being hit triple the armor after AP.

So the guy in armored clothing is now resisting with the mathematical average equivalent of 18 armor. Armor Vest, 29.

Basically makes some kind of AP ammo mandatory, among other things.

>>48960681
And considering how hard it is to get AP Ammo in Shadowrun... Maybe it's not the best of ideas.

>>48960568
>50 guards
Where did I say that there are 50 guards? I said that they won't be waiting conveniently in groups of five. They will be most likely try to stop you while waiting for the backup to arrive. 5 vs 5 then turns into 5 vs 10 or 5 vs 15.
>ballistic plate armour and assault rifles.
The initial guards maybe not. But the backup might. Also the mooks usually have at least good ballistic armor. They might also field specialists.

Maybe it also differs in what kind of runs I make. While there are runs that face minimal opposition I want to have the runners deal with the fact that in a pinch quality<quantity

>>48960568

Dude, you haven't had the real SR GM experience until you've Black Hawk Downed your players at least once, zerged them when they didn't see it coming.

>>48960705
>I said that they won't be waiting conveniently in groups of five
Five's a fireteam. That, or they'll be wandering around in groups of two or maybe three. Most runners can blow through them before backup can arrive.

>>48960703
Well, while SnS is a good choice for the debuff, it's basically the only non F ammo at that point.

Flechette also has to be totally redone as it goes from okay if a bit too luck dependent (or weapon dependent) for my tastes to actively less useful than pistol-whipping.

>>48960740
>groups of two or maybe three
which will usually have biomonitors and try to sound the alarm. If they manage, then the guards will begin to circle the area where they were last seen.

>>48960772
If Shadowrun designated between hard and soft armour, it'd be real easy to rework flechettes. But as it stands, you really can't.

>>48960568
>Yes, because most places field 50 guards, who all converge on one location at the same time. All of said guards are also of course wearing ballistic plate armour and wielding assault rifles.

...Yes, that kind of thing is normal for corp security in the Sixth World. And that's NOT including what happens when you get caught inside a Mitsuhama z-zone.

This fucking cat.
This FUCKING CAT.

>>48960943
did somebody make another SURGE catgirl in your latest game, omae?

>>48960943
Anon, we know the saying, but
No
Just No
A Cat is NOT fine too

>>48960960
No.
Our group has spent the last 3 sessions trying to either steal or save a cat that is owned by a guard of the place we are trying to break into.

>>48960976

This meme is so old it's retro

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>>48959425
>>48959504
>>48959749

Seems like a vehicle rigger might make a good way to do a solo runner or pair of partners game. Doing jobs as a high-stakes courier, getaway driver, vehicular mercenary, etc.

>>48960435

That's basically been the underlying feeling I've had for the last few sessions, and now we're inside a locked down Renraku arcology dealing with creepy dolls and people with no brains (they show up as cold headed on thermo vision and the mage couldn't probe their minds or mob mind them). Suffice to say, the "we're fucked" meter is through the roof.

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>>48961622
pray for a deus ex machina

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>>48961622

>inside a locked down Renraku arcology

Ahahaha

You have no idea what's happening, do you? I'm actually kind of jealous of the campaign you're in, seeing it with naive eyes, but oh man, you guys are in a world of shit.

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>>48961679
>seeing it with naive eyes

At least he's not seeing it with green eyes!

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>>48961767

Point well taken

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>>48948786
I need help chummers. My orc adept player (SR 5) believes he can have a base agility of 4 and boost it to 10, while I believe the max augmented limit means he can only boost it to 8 with his base. Am I wrong? I know this is really unclear on page 94, but I cant get a straight answer.

>>48961665

Yeah current theory seems to be cyber zombie/body snatcher apocalypse with a rouge AI in there somewhere (it's already done the "I can't let you do that, Old Man Jenkins" bit). Everyone is jumping at shadows and walking around with weapons out at every opportunity. This goes double for the group's hacker, whose two main solutions for everything are 1) hack everything, and 2) explosions. Option 1 is currently closed to him, and option 2 doesn't help much. Meanwhile, our groups rocket toting limb ripping troll is more terrified than Scooby Doo if he were in a Saw movie. She's even doing the whole "hide behind a smaller party member" thing. I'm just glad the "squishy" thing I stepped on was a pacifier and not brains or something, I literally just bought a new Berwick suit before this all started.

>>48961679

As much as the character I'm playing would like to know what's going on, please no spoilers. Also, I imagine it will end up deviating from the original script, due to the GM openly admitting he doesn't like sticking to railroads and cannibalising the original campaign for ideas rather than just using it as is.

>>48961767

I suspect it's no coincidence, but that's the pic the GM showed us of the arcology in question.

>>48961927

Depends on the means. If he gets a cyberlimb, he can customise that up to his racial maximum, and then enhance it up to +3 (AFAIK, there's no way to actually hit the +4 limit on a cyberlimb). If he just plans to get the stat boosting cyber/bioware and fit it straight into his body, the +4 limit applies.

>>48962004
Redliner, I believe, is it. But it has its costs, for one.

>>48961930
Just so you know, but that place you are in?
It's very important for the metaplot
what year are you playing in?

>>48961927
Augmented Maximum is the current natural value +4. Nothing can take you over that cap. As cyberlimbs have their own attributes they can be customised up to the Metatype Maximum, then Enhanced to +3.

>>48960723
Generally speaking, corpsec cant shoot for shit.

>>48962004
If he's an adept would he be using 'ware at all?

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>>48961930

Well, it is one of the better pieces of art of the Renraku Arcology. That place has dominated the Seattle skyline since construction started in the 2040s.

>>48961128
A vehicle rigger is exactly what I'm playing in an upcoming game. Dude's specced to be the best getaway driver in Seattle, and a halfway decent street samurai when on foot. The car's got a sniper rifle loaded with APDS for disabling other vehicles or providing overwatch.

>>48962054

AFAIK it's 2075? We're using 5e. The GM did say he was using some older stuff for inspiration though.

>>48962061
Getting 'ware is often more PP effective than getting the equivalent Adept power.

>>48962061

Depends, generally speaking 'ware is better at raising stats than adept powers are (you can get STR and AGI +2 for 0.8 Essence, whereas the adept equivalent costs 4PP). Improved Reflexes is way better than Wired Reflexes though.

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>>48962125

Guess the Arc opened about 20 years (further) behind schedule in your SR universe.

Hope you're packing well chummer. Anyways, stop listening to us, you want to go into this as blind as possible. Its more fun/terrifying this way.

>>48962125
>AFAIK it's 2075? We're using 5e. The GM did say he was using some older stuff for inspiration though.
OK, so I guess it's a different one or something. Anyway, back in the 2050s this happened in seattle. Standard issue "AI tries to take over the world" stuff.

>>48962167
and of course adept powers don't break your bank if you don't have a lot of nuyen to throw around.

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Does a more detailed map of Seattle exist beyond the ones in the core rules that just kinda show general regions?

>>48962285
Don't ruin it you moron.

>>48962280

Yeah the GM has the whole "creepy doll voice" perfected. About half the party is freaking out already, the hacker and the street sam already consider the dolls as things to kill on sight, and like I said the party's smashing troll is pulling a Scooby Doo.

Actually, would you guys be interested in some story time about our group? We've only JUST started the whole Renraku business, but we've done a few runs already which involve plenty of exploding orc dolls, plans taken straight from Scooby Doo, and implications about troll penises.

>>48962370
Man I wish I had a group that was more into this side of the game sometimes. My group tends to crow about the Minimum Requirements (tm) and operational operations.

>>48962301

To be fair, AIs trying to take over the world are so stereotypical. I'm pretty sure this one is attempting some kind of End of Flesh scenario, the dolls already did the whole "we are Legion" bit, and the storehouse full of "modified" people point to it too.

>>48962407

Oh we are super Pink Mohawk, but with the level of planning of Black Trenchcoat. It's just that the plans are utterly ridiculous: one discarded plan for a previous run involved a party member swallowing an explosive orc doll or two, and then using the toilet in the target bank to deliver the payload, which would then detonate. This would all be a distraction so that the rest of the party could get into the vault.

>>48962370
Storytimes please!

>>48962407
Minimum requirements?

Does 2D happen to still lurk these threads? If so, are we ever going to get Shadowrun Storytime 2: Specs Boogaloo?

>>48962300
A real map. Why the hell is my home Sammamish a part of Redmond?

>>48962589
He popped in and talked about it a few weeks ago, but he's been working a lot. Storytime 2 is in the works but he's been busy.

>>48962494

Will do, I'll have to gather my notes into a cohesive narrative first though, so that I don't keep you guys hanging between posts.

>>48962546
Super hardcore black trenchcoat style shit. Like:

1. No lethal weapons unless the run is specifically for taking a guy out, or it's a run into somewhere like an MCT Zero Zone or a gang area. And even if it is, avoid a firefight like the fucking plague.

2. No mages or adepts, because A) magical attacks tend to be prosecuted worse than mundane ones and B) Awakened individuals stand out more, thus they're easier for the corps to track down and get the team killed in the middle of the night.

3. No metatypes other than human, because like with mages non-human metatypes stand out enough that it will make it easier for the corps to track you down and kill the team in the middle of the night.

4. SINless is good, Erased is better, a Fake SIN of a rating less than maximum might as well be a normal SIN, being a SINner of any stripe will see you instantly tracked down and killed in the middle of the night. (Seeing a pattern here?)

5. Always wear a fully covering ski mask at all times, and if you can't squeeze in that treatment that makes your biological evidence decay after five minutes you'd better be prepared to hump enough of that cleaning chemical to mop up after your shit.

That sort of running style.

>>48962646
>2. No mages or adepts
How do you counter magical defenses then?

>>48962646
That all sounds very autistic, but I have to say the biggest misstep is:
>A) magical attacks tend to be prosecuted worse than mundane ones
You say that like you aren't already going to be fucking hung for domestic/corporate terrorism. Same with the nonlethal weapons. Go full illegal or go home.

>>48962674
Nobody dying on the property makes it easier for the corp to just shrug off and accept as part of the cost of doing business.

>>48962670
You don't. You try to avoid them.

>>48962703
>Nobody dying on the property makes it easier for the corp to just shrug off and accept as part of the cost of doing business.
People dying is part of the corp business anyways. It costs more to track down a bunch of runners (Which they don't care about, because they're just guns for hire and have no motive besides doing a job) than it does to just cut your losses.

>>48962719
>Which they don't care about

Exception to this: Mitsuhama will chase your ass to the ends of the earth to bury you if you get caught in a Z-Zone.

>>48962719
>People dying is part of the corp business anyways. It costs more to track down a bunch of runners (Which they don't care about, because they're just guns for hire and have no motive besides doing a job) than it does to just cut your losses.

That's the way I've always felt it should be, but our GM is kind of enamored of how forensic detective shows and other shit like that makes law enforcement seem hypercompetent at tracking people down with ease, so the corps end up being like that if you slip up even the tiniest fraction of an inch.

>>48962738
Which doesn't make much sense, but I guess that's just how the lore goes.

Killing a runner is like shooting the messenger. There's no use.

>>48962758
People don't always act perfectly logically; Mitsuhama still has a lot of that old Yakuza vindictiveness.

>>48962757
Ugh. Have you tried to inform him that the majority of forensics is junk and several fields (such as arson investigation) are actively anti-science?

>>48962757
I wonder how my usual avoiding magical tracking scheme (only with Masking just because of the level shown here) would work.

And then I guess how a force 25 or so mana barrier from the temporary lodge would set things awry.

>>48962807
I have. No luck. Some days I think he really should switch to Cyberpunk 2020 or something.

>>48962831
>should switch to Cyberpunk 2020
Why is that?

>>48962674
>Same with the nonlethal weapons. Go full illegal or go home.
At least in 4e and 5e, physical damage weapons are strictly less effective than stun damage weapons because of damage-splitting. If one or more of your shots gets downgraded into Stun instead of Physical, it can double the number of attacks it takes to finally incapacitate a target. If you're hitting them with Stun in the first place, there's nothing to downgrade, and you get a much more reliable incapacitation.

If Physical had just wildly more stopping power than Stun I might consider using it, but as it stands the only deadly ammo that I use in my current game (which is decidedly Pink Mohawk) is APDS for spirits and vehicles, because I can't justify to myself using it against anyone else.

>>48962851
Because 2020 is shit, and so is his GM.

>>48962893
I bet you haven't even read 2020.

Great setting, system needs some improvement

>>48962905
>Great setting
The setting aged like cheap wine. It started out as something fun and easy to drink, but nothing too refined, and then turned into vinegar as retrospect kicked in. Maybe 2077 will end up fixing that if/when it ever finally comes out, but 2020 is bad.

>>48962926
>Complaining about settings that turned alternate history
Observe_Hounds cellphone hacking please leave.

2020 is great 80's fun.

>>48962937
You're chugging vinegar with a forced smile and insisting to anyone who will listen that because you left it in the bottle 20 years ago it's still the same cheap wine you used to enjoy back in the day.

>>48962959
>He doesn't like the 80s

>>48962615
Ah, thanks for passing that along Anon. Glad to hear he's doing well though, especially work wise. I'll just have ot keep a lookout.

>>48962646
>a Fake SIN of a rating less than maximum might as well be a normal SIN
>not having the awkward annoyance of your rating 6 fake SIN involve what is essentially a doppleganger, and thus provide extremely good intel on your appearance

>>48962851
Because he clearly doesn't like the fantasy bits of Shadowrun.

>>48963016
I didn't see you mention that in the previous post. Maybe let him have a shot with it, see how everyone likes it? 2020 is very much a different game than Shadowrun. It's a lot more 80's, a lot more lethal, and has an odder variety of things to play (Rockerboys, Cops, Nomads, etc). But who knows, maybe he'll like it, despite what the other anon is saying about it being horrible. Every group I've played 2020 with had a blast.

>>48963078
>I didn't see you mention that in the previous post

True, though I figured I'd implied it pretty hard with the "no magic, no non-humans" thing. But yeah, I wouldn't mind playing it. It might be just plain better for the style this group wants to play.

>>48963132
Wait, was >>48962646 your post?

>>48963180
Yeah.

>>48963277
I thought that was you saying what your ideal game is, not what your GM does.

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>>48961930

Log off, now. Don't let these people ruin it for you. You're in for the ride of your life.

I'm looking to include the horrors in my campaign. What splatbooks, beyond Harlequin's Back, should I be looking at?

>>48963297
Nope, it's the latter, and it's what most of the group prefers as well, so while I have my reservations I generally go along with it for now until I can find a more flexible group.

And to be totally fair, it's not like I've never had fun with that style. It's just...kinda repetitive after a while.

>>48963345
Old Earthdawn stuff. Also, look at the Dominions games, especially the stuff that you get out of blood magic.

>>48963392
I can imagine. You need a bit of leeway in settings like Shadowrun, because planning crimes and murders realistically is a lot of work, and really not all to satisfying most of the time. I prefer to stick to something inbetween the dichotomy, really.

Hey yekka, could you let us buy extended mags in the gear section of chummer, I want a lot of extended mags but I don't want to clutter my weapons accessories with mags

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>>48963646
They're called CLIPS chummer.
C L I P S

>>48963772
Technically, a speed loader for a revolver is a kind of clip. So you are technically correct.

>>48963814
They're all clips!
ALL OF THEM!

>>48963874
You're a clip!

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>>48949138
Payday2 is a great videogame reference especially if you follow the storylines. And the charaters arent exactly faceless.

Good example of Ballistic masks also.

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>>48964191
I'm not a clip!

>>48964296
Yeah, Payday 2 missions are good examples of more street-level Shadowrun ops.

Anybody else think some of the Hitman games also work fairly well, despite not being very cyber?

So in the old proposal for the now dead High Magic Sourcebook, the ending section was a very speculative 'edge of possibility' transformation magic, for npcs and campaign ending. Which made me think of endings/'ascension' for both the magical players and the non-techies. Extreme high end games, etc, etc, where the name of the game isn't so much 'pay my rent' as it is the pointy end of the hierarchy of needs. Anyone got any possibilities?

Sammies have becoming a cyberzombie or a cyborg, sure, but those aren't exactly permanent. Deckers, I have nothing for, barring evolution into some sort of quasi-technomancer, unfortunately. Mages and the like could try for ascension into some sort of free spirit.

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>>48963646
Mrhrm, I'd have to look into it. There's a bunch of annoying code around ammo counts and capacities at the moment, it's a bit fragile.

>>48959725
You think that's bad? The highest a Troll can get their strength is 17, or effectively 20 with that one Adept power that increses your strength for bows. A rating 20 bow would deal 22P with -6AP, better referred to as "hard removal"

Do people still play SR4e? Is 5e worth it yet?

>>48965079
5e is.. okay. It's got some good points, and a lot of bad ones. And the general quality of the books has hit the dirt. And they've chosen some really fucking stupid plot points and ideas to push (CFD), which restricts the output of better books.

>>48965105
Fuck. Still better off running 4e with some houserules adopted from 5e, then? Bow innate armor-pen, Milspec armor having Hardened Armor, maybe adapting the varied weapon damage stuff, full-str melee.

Any other actually good rules it's made?

>>48965131
Pretty much. 4A is pretty good on its own, the whole 'bow' thing aside. A damage cap on that sort of thing (Because your materials disintegrated. Fuck you) is enough, rather than a whole.. thing.

I don't particularly like 5e, so you're better off waiting until a fanboy pops up for 'good' rules - I fucking hate limits, for example.

>>48965157
Oh, yeah, I think limits are fucking retarded and awful, and the entire idea of the wireless bonuses is shit.

>>48965185
Isn't the only purpose of wireless bonuses to force the guys relying on cyberware and smartlinks to be the hacker's bitch?

>>48965185
I agree that wireless bonuses are overused, though there are a handful that make sense.

I disagree that limits are dumb however. For one, most of the time you don't hit your limit, and two, they help tone down some ridiculous builds.

Other things about 5e I personally find better:
The matrix rules are somewhat less time consuming.
Initiative passes are handled in a more appealing way.
Priority gen is quicker for character creation, I find.

Things that are absolutely terrible about 5e:
The book editing. Dear gods, the book editing.
Probably some other things that I can't think of right now, but a lot of the things I can think of are due to poor editing.

>>48965157
>>48965185
What's bad about limits? Did you like hackers being able to ignore mental skills or something? Were you a fan of the optimal hacker having log1?

>>48965238
Last I saw, it basically works like:

>Gear has wireless bonus
>This bonus is either useless beyond reason and therefor irrelevant, or ABSOLUTELY VITAL TO THE GEAR
>If it's vital, it has ZERO reason to be wireless at all, like how some shit deploys faster when wireless

>>48965260
Limits don't do anything, because those "ridiculous builds" aren't used. Nobody plays fully optimized troll hyperarchers.

Also, I'll take a slower chargen system that's actually decent over a fast one that's really awful.

>>48965301
>Also, I'll take a slower chargen system that's actually decent over a fast one that's really awful.
Well then it kinda sucks that BP isn't really decent.

>>48965131
>Bow innate armor-pen
I've never played 5E, what is that?

>>48965310
Karmagen exists in 4e, and BP gen is still better than priority.

>>48965316
At a rough remembering, bows get -1 AP for every 4 points of rating, I want to say? Might have been 3 points.

>>48965323
>Karmagen exists in 4e,
It does in 5e too
>BP is better than priority
One is fast and bad, the other is slow and bad. Priority wins!

>>48965323
>Bows
>Penetrating armour
Oh boy, that's a laugh.

>>48965260
Limits are an interesting idea but badly executed it's too easy to make a mockery of limits and trolls being able to sneak with great proficiency due to their strength stats in just retarded.

>>48965348
Karmagen does exist in 5ed, unfortunately it's in Run Faster a.k.a. a definitive guide on how to half-arse a gamebook, and could really have done with some fine tuning.

Does anyone have a printer-friendly (i.e. mostly white background) map of Seattle, preferably one good enough for poster-size printing? My google-fu seems to have failed me, and I didn't find anything sifting through the links in the pastebin either.

>>48965348
*One is fast and bad, the other is slower and less bad.

>>48965356
You're using a bow rated for something that can physically lift and throw a car, and that's before cyber or bioware enhancements. Throw in magic, 'ware, and other qualities, and that archer will be putting his crazy-ass tungsten carbide diamond-tipped smart-link enhanced arrows through tanks.

>>48965356
Depends on what kind of armor. Any sort of soft body armor is less resistant to arrows, particularly with that energy. An example: http://youtu.be/1nLRymWv-CA

>>48965414
Still, arrows lose velocity real fast compared to bullets, and are useless when it comes to hard armour (Plate and the like).

>>48965454
Well, yeah. Modern soft armour is pretty trash against anything, really. But anything hard is going to make an arrow weep, as they just lack the velocity and ballistics you get with a bullet..

>>48965479
Well, yeah. But rule of cool.

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What is /srg/'s thoughts on Standard Sum to 8?

>>48965501
I swear I may be the only person on the planet to think bows aren't cool at all.

>>48965516
To each their own, man.

>>48962719
Employee fatalities might be part of corp business, but it's an accounted for part and on their terms.
More important to corps than money is face. Following up on a stolen prototype or employee can be cut after a number of hours determined by profit margins. Rampaging runners, murdering indiscriminately or stealing for themselves, embarrass the corporation and have a greater priority of being seen to be dealt with.

>>48965131
>Still better off running 4e with some houserules adopted from 5e, then?
Other way around. The base rules for 5e are better, but need fixing.

>>48966010
What are some of the suggested changes for 5e, then?

>>48966033
In terms of things that could be resolved by going back to 4e? You'd have to ask someone that wants 4e rules.

>>48966088
No, man. In terms of making it easier to play and making it an overall more sensible and enjoyable experience to play.

>>48962882
>because of damage-splitting
At least in 5e NPCs only have a single condition monitor so there's no damage splitting.

>>48966342
In 4e they also have one track with their fate determined by the attack that fills them (dead with P, unconscious with S)

>>48962300
>Sunset on Snohomish. Burn the tree line down.

>>48966370
Unless, y'know, that P attack gets resisted enough to be downgraded to S.

>>48966529
Sure, but even then it's still just one track so you don't need extra attacks just because your P attack got downgraded to S.

>>48962646
Turbogay wannabe shittery

would not play/10 and i hate Metasapients and animu special snowflakes with a passion

>>48962703
>Nobody dying on the property makes it easier for the corp to just shrug off and accept as part of the cost of doing business.

>implying corps value the life of some replacable wageslave more or in a significant amount relativ to the stolen data.

wannabehardcoreblacktrenchcoaters, not even once.

>>48965944
"preserving your face" is best done if nobody knows that something happened.
Corpsec going batshit and searching for Runners behind every corner doesn't exactly do this

So for the braggart negative trait, does the PC have to brag about himself?

I'm thinking of making a family man runner who married a black market fence, had a kid and is so proud of his family he constantly talks about them.

>>48966761
Does he get killed by a woman with huge tits?

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>>48966761
Well it's not really the intent of the quality, but I guess it could work, provided your GM was on board.

>>48966777

Define huge.

>>48966785
Thank God he doesnt like anime or my cover would be blown.RIP Maes, you were too good for this world

>>48954975
This

>>48961930
>hacker
KYS and burn forever in 4e hell

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>>48955506
No, a future without those goddamn nature loving, mind manipulating, demon summoning, ecoterrorists is miles better than the psychotic hellhole the world is now.

Also be wary of technomancers, those toaster lovers don't seem right either.

>>48955765
fair enough. They do touch a lot and it does skirt into each others barriers.

The reason we ended up doing it like this is that RV end sup becoming a kind of lesser Puppeteer, which works for our purposes. A convincing illusion can be a lot of things, up to and including "my deck just got fried and I will need to reformat at". But at least you can roll Matrix Perception to see through it, whereas with Puppeteer the deck is actually fried.

RV and telling a drone "That target over there registers as Hostile" is always fun though.

Colt Government 2066 or the Predator V? I'm torn..

>>48966938
Clockwork was right

>>48967162
Savalette Guardian

>>48966686
It's not always a matter of hiding that anything happened. Being seen as effective in intrusion response gives good rep.

>>48967162
Colt Manhunter for hacking near-immunity.

>>48966686
Then again, an effective response shows the corp as being competent and relevant enough to have enemies. The latter is immensely important - if you take a bit of shit for the martyr points, letting corpsec be killed and the runners get away, you might not seem as cool and competent as you'd be able to do, but a corp without a casus belli is a corp without teeth.
If you have a few grudges lying around, you can justify many more things, especially if you run them past the media to shock people. If a bunch of shadowrunners raid a facility and steal something, and the corp then decides to take it back, they'll be very limited in their responses if the shadowrunners didn't actually do anything. If they kill anyone or destroy anything in taking it back, they set themselves up for demonstrations, minor boycotts and shadowrunners starting to resent them, as well as fine payments to save face.
Imagine two situations: In one, Black Trenchcoat Team A raids a building in complete silence and secrecy, stealing an important research prototype. The corp needs to be subtle or merciful in getting it back, because nothing makes you lose face like having to explain a massacre - they can kill all the runners if they want, but they have to do it on the down-low and without too much collateral damage. This is hard and expensive, and makes corps lose patience with runners very fast.
Imagine now that Black Mohawk Team B kills a few security guards, nicks a bit of shit for themselves and blows up some facility because it seemed like a good idea at the time. The corp can get insurance payments and refunds from the government for the damages, raise publicity with memorial ceremonies, use the tragedy to raise themselves on a moral pedestal over other corps and even blame the incident on a rival corp or a troublesome gang.
Corps want runners who run a bit dirty, so that they know that they can get an excuse or an opening out of them if they're against them.

>>48967452
>f a bunch of shadowrunners raid a facility and steal something, and the corp then decides to take it back, they'll be very limited in their responses if the shadowrunners didn't actually do anything

No they arent.
And thats making your whole argument null.

You steal a multimillion Nuyen prototype or w/e, it doesn't matter wheter you dropped a few Joe Mc Donuts wageslaving as security.

Now there are simpy two options for the corp.
They can find you or they can find you not, within reasonable amounts of moniez spent for trying it.

If they can find you they will fuck you. If they can't find you, they won't fuck you.


Insurances are irrelevant, because every company knowing half their shit writes some none-disclosure clause in it, preventing unwilling leaks.
And thats TODAY, where corps have significantly less power.

>they can get an excuse or an opening out of them if they're against them.
Please invest time into researching the established setting.

Corps don't need an excuse for anything that isn't large scale slaughter of civilians in the tripple digit scale.

For fucks sake, Shadowrun is a Setting with institutionalized warfare among Corps (Desert Wars) and a concept of literal non-humans (SIN-LESS).

Who would persecute a corp for geeking a few Sinless thiefs? Their subsidary corp that is managing the local police force?
The local Gubmint that can't even enter the Corps Exteritorial Area?
The whole fucking Setting is built around everything being attributed a prize and if accounting says avenging Joe Wageslave isn't worth expending the deploy Costs of HTRs and Intell hours, then it isn't worth the money.
And why should it? There are plenty of other protoslaves waiting to work.

SR is a setting built on "Item=>money".
"Killing", "raping", "murder" are all largely irrelevant words.
What matters is theft and destruction of corporate property and the value of said item.
High Value = strong response
Low value = low response
Wageslave = low value

Nth for CLOCKWORK DID NOTHING WRONG

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>>48960612
Minmaxing with a shifter is harder to do (especially if you enforce "no 'ware or gear can shift, only your meat"). It may be used for waifus/snowflakes, but there are interesting ideas.

I just want to justify my Amazonian fire-chucking horse-shifter adept

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>>48962589
>>48962615
The last update

>>48967644
See >>48967380

>>48967644
I can see you've never read 2nd or 3rd edition sourcebooks.
They paint a much more nuanced and interesting setting, in which corporations actually have to watch their image a bit - people aren't completely blunted and uncaring, just initiative-less and raised on garish media. The corps can get away with a lot as long as people never see it, but people are still going to shrink back at open massacres without a clear cause. The corps can use a lot of resources to hide a lot of things, but it's not a two-dimensional setting in which everyone is a wageslave and the corps are monolithic evil entities that can get away with everything.
The heavy-handedness was mostly introduced around 4th edition, because the fluff took a lot of huge turns that invalidated earlier setting books but didn't get a lot of well-written setting in exchange, which means that the universe and setting turn much more farcical after that. There's a ton of fluff and flavor in earlier books that describe exactly how corps maintain their power - and a lot of it is PR campaigns, prettying up their reputation and spinning incidents in their favor. They have a lot of control over the media, but they're not all-powerful and still rivalize with each other - you need to be sure that you keep a good image, or other corps are going to tear you apart.
Corporations also depend on shadowrunners and their credibility in the shadowrunner community to find deniable operatives. If you develop a reputation for killing runners left and right, you're not going to have any runners besides poser-gangs to draw from, and everyone is going to be very eager for a run against you. The people you really wanna nail are the top-secret black-ops types, because they're effective, hard to uncover and always pose a threat - unlike the flashier people, which provide you with excuses and openings. There's an opening for shadowrunners specifically because operators raise the stakes too high.

>>48964390
>Yeah, Payday 2 missions are good examples of more street-level Shadowrun ops.
When was the last time you played? Because certain clients (Johnsons) provide some serious Big Leagues shit.

>>48965390
>>48962300
Change the Sound if you don't want it to be that grey.

>>48967719
Irrelevant to the point.
tl;dr for you:

Corporate response intensity is directly correlated to the financial severity of their shadowrunner-induced monetary loss.
Some random wageslaves don't shift this value enough to create a different outcome because they are usually insignificant sums, compared to the target of the run.

>>48965131
>Still better off running 4e with some houserules adopted from 5e, then?
Not really. I would have said to go with 4e back before a lot of the splats got released, but now that it has a proper amount of content I moderately prefer 5e's base mechanics to 4e's. Especially things like Initiative, or the Matrix; they're no the best they could possible be, but they're less shit than they were in 4e.

>>48967762
Its funny you claiming this, because your turbomirrorshades attitude is something that really was only introduced in the 4e Sourcebooks.

>>48966342
>At least in 5e NPCs only have a single condition monitor so there's no damage splitting.
That's only true for Grunts. Anyone else subjects you to risk of damage splitting as normal. And for them, Stun remains the damage type with the most reliable stopping power.

>>48967162
Savalette Guardian, 110%.

>>48967717
>literally a fucking year ago at this point

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>Bottles of the president's blood kept on board in case he needs an emergency transfusion

Why haven't your runners attacked a limo in motion to get a sample of their victims blood?

Do you think they'd continue this practice in the sixth world, with everything it's loss might entail?

Since people are saying that the archetypes in the core book are weaklings, do you have any example characters to share?
I'm trying to figure out what dicepools should I aim for and I'm reading anything from itty-bitty seven to ridiculous size of six-fucking-teen.
Am I really supposed to get such huge numbers or has the powergaming meta skewed the field?

>>48960313
In my xp only furries play shapers.

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>>48967762
>poser-gangs
Don't talk shit about the Kennedys.

>>48968333
What I have gathered from all the character generation advice in the past couple threads is, that a pool of 12 in the your absolute core skills is a good goal fresh out of chargen.

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>>48968333
Depends on what the rest of the table has, but I generally recommend 12-16 dice in your core skill, 8-12 in other stuff you're good at, and 4 for stuff you're familiar with at best. I break it down like that mostly for ease of buying hits if shit's boring, but mostly those break-points are around the point where you'll reliably get the hits to do the things you want to do as well as you need to do them.

The problem with most of the archetypes in the core book is that they're built wrong. The street sam is like 80,000¥ over budget, for example.

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>>48968542
Is that a Trumpet-Błyskawica hybrid..?

>>48948859

Wait, as in that is a commercial product for purchase?

I'd buy that shit promptly. Goddamn do you know how hard it is to find the right sort of futuristic-but-not-shit looking armour for a TV series?

Can't even make it ourselves since some dumbcunt director fucked the props team head's wife.

>>48968161
>Do you think they'd continue this practice in the sixth world, with everything it's loss might entail?
I don't think they'd need the president's blood. They'd probably keep an artificial, synthetic blood that's 100% rejections proof and sustains people better than normal blood on hand.

>>48968333
You should have a 12 in your main gimmick before other bonuses. For example, the main 'combat guy' on the team should have at least 5 Agility, 6 in a weapon skill, and 2 points in a Specialty, for a total of 13 dice, as a baseline.

Then you have other bonuses, like Smartlink for +1-2 dice, Agility 'ware or powers for another +1-4, and maybe a weapon focus, reflex recorder, or a skill-boosting power.

Meaning that with bonuses factored in, you're probably looking at a dice pool of, yes, 16. And that's without minmaxing it, just taking normal, obvious, basic things for your archetype in question.

Similarly, a Decker is probably going to have 14 dice in their main hacking skill (6 Attribute, 6 Skill, 2 Specialty), a Mage might splurge on Exceptional Attribute Magic and have a dice pool of 15 before Foci, and a Rigger's not just going to be shitting out a massive Pilot pool but also enjoying the Control Rig's direct reduction in Difficulties.

So, yeah, 12 is a nice, safe number to shoot for. It's perfectly reasonable for a non-minmaxer, and it's also high enough that you're, you know, actually good at your specialty. Plus, it lets you buy 3 hits when you just want to smooth things along.

>>48962300
There's a Google doc of Seattle with all the places and gangs and ect and everything listed. I can't post it right now because I'm posting from a phone. But I will post it later.

>>48962646
That sounds awesome and makes sense to me. Don't worry about all these other mage fags hating. Faggot ass mages, always being faggots.

>>48968542
How's that drone limb thing coming along? Always eager for updates on that one.

>>48963392
If you need a replacement I'll gladly take your place.

>>48964890
Bows can't top rating 10.

>>48965157
>>48965185
>Munchkins detected

>>48965516
Nope, with you on that. Using melee or bows when guns exist is fuckin retarded.

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>>48969109
Fucking retardedly awesome.

>>48969027
I know, it was an example of what can happen if the rating limit is removed.

>>48966761
Your family will get murdered if you do that.
You know it to be true.

>>48969168
>Only augmented dude in the room tearing through a bunch of mundanes

In that scenario, yeah it's awesome. But when you fight other augs, and they have guns with AP that tune changes real quick.

>>48969221
I can't tell if you're pro or anti limits.

>>48969399
>only augmented dude
look again chummer
they are ALL augmented
the difference isn't augmented to non-augmented
it's Delta Ware vs. (Alpha/Standard/Used) Ware

>>48969399
I don't see a single AUG in that clip, I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>48969451
>it's Delta Ware vs. (Alpha/Standard/Used) Ware
No. Deltaware doesn't actually given you any advantages other than a lower Essence cost. It's high-Rating versus low-Rating.

>>48969463
>in that clip
You mean magazine.

>>48969466
I agree with you in priciple, but it is Jensen with loads of deltaware crammed into his body, making him better than the average guys who are using standard ware and probably have Essence ratings above single decimals, the pussies.

>>48969451
Okay, either way my originated point stands. If he's far and away the highest aug in the room, he's gonna shit all over scrubs, obviously. I was simply stating that on the same footing the game changes. And that looks a lot more like, unreleased super tech exclusively used for BBEGs vs alpha/used/standard ware.

>>48969489
Original*

>>48969423
Neutral on limits. Some good things have come of them, and some bad, but I personally wouldn't remove them given the choice.

>>48969510
They're good for stopping shit head munchkins.

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>>48969482
Clipazine

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>>48969559
That is unsettling.

>>48969524
Exactly. And they're bad because the cut off some unoptimised builds that would otherwise be really interesting.

>>48969644
Not trying to be a dick, but, such as?

Honestly wondering.

>>48969658
Manablade is a great example. If Accuracy as limit weren't there, you could do great things, like stick an F2 one on an F2 sustaining focus (that was also an F4 Qi Focus (Adept Spell (Manablade))) and use it as an actual sword.

Other than that, it's just things like playing as Mr Miyagi, with dick all for attributes and decent skills, which can't be done.

>tfw chummer 4e is dead :c

>>48969943
you are noticing that NOW?
It's dead since '13

>>48970048
Was just trying to get a friend into a new campaign and the website was fucked so they couldn't download it. I had to send them the zip file over skype.

>>48970068
What?
The website works. Seems like it's a problem on your end.
Alternatively:
http://www.chummergen.com/dev/chummer/Chummer.zip

>>48970082
Huh, must be.

>>48970095
the dead part I was referring to was the development

Also, New thread how?
Any theme you'd like?

>>48970131
Pets, drones, and paracritters edition.

>>48970131
Not now. Wait till this hits page 10, it could take an hour or more. Don't clog the board.

>>48970131

Something along the lines of "50 shades of trenchcoats" would probably be pertinent, based on the discussion on this one. Jesus.

>>48970190
Always choose non-sequiturs for new editions. Don't bog down threads by continuing to talk about the same shit from the last thread.

>>48967833
>turbomirrorshades
I keked so hard my vision dimmed.

How do you guys handle it when the team gets into something huge but repetitive, like an office building, with corridors and more corridors and more rooms full of offices and desks?

How does that play out in the game? Like do you simply roll to see if they're detected while they cross 4 identical corridors and two rooms full of cubicles? Or do you go "oh, yes, there is another cubicle at the end of the hallway."

>>48969880
While those would be cool, I'd rather take the trade off of less cheese.

>>48970825
Remember The Matrix? The first one, where Neo has to try and escape from his office?
Do that.
Just the highlights, always. The rest is a given.