Friends, I have a question. Why is it that "MUH GRAY AND

>>48842038
I'd slay her evil if you know what I mean.

>>48842038
DUDE WATCHMEN LMAO

>>48842047
Indeed. She is quite the QT.

>>48842048
It can't be all blamed on Watchmen, though. I blame Game of Thrones, personally.

The withering of the global economy and rise of authoritarian fascism makes everybody hate everything now.

>>48842038
It's more realistic and easier to relate to, so it leads to more interesting character.
In the entire tradition of literature and drama there are very few true heroes taking the spotlight. They are almost always flawed or anti-heroes.
If it were otherwise, it would be anime. And who likes that?

>>48842038
Because having an invincible hero destroy evil throughout the land fell out of favor when we started asking questions about imperialism. Society changed; if you honestly expected fantasy to stay the same I don't know what to tell you.

>>48842038
It comes in cycles. Back in the early noughties, there was a big push towards ambiguous morality in fantasy fiction, as young fans of fantasy grew up and started demanding more from their favourite genre. Then they grew up a bit more and realised that most grey morality stories were hacky garbage, and started demanding more optimistic and hopeful fare instead (I have a sneaking suspicion that My Little Pony of all things was the main catalyst for that turnaround).

Now a new generation of fantasy fans are growing up, and rebelling against the hope and optimism of the status quo, not yet realising how hacky and trite most of the ~dark and edgy~ crap they're into actually is.

>>48842116
>If it were otherwise, it would be anime. And who likes that?

Oh, like Cowboy Bebop?

>>48842038
>What happened to classic stories of valiant heroes slaying evil?

It got old.

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>>48842038
I have a lot of fun getting into gray and gray morality games and playing people that are selfless, humble and dedicated to helping those in need.

>>48842121
I like watching a good guy bleed and suffer and work for it when his survival and victory aren't for sure (literally being a dice roll, in many cases). Failing can be as good a story as success.

>>48842068
But isn't authoritan fascism literally valiant heroes slaying evil?

>>48842150
>I like watching a good guy bleed and suffer and work for it when his survival and victory aren't for sure (literally being a dice roll, in many cases). Failing can be as good a story as success.
Yeah but uh...we can't have him lose. Losing isn't popular with our market, our audience likes characters who win against all odds. Can you put something like that in there instead?
actual quotes btw

>>48842152
No. Authoritarianism is always for people who are bitter and resentful that most people are just too fucking stupid to be allowed to be in charge of the government.

Or people who don't give a shit if the people control it or not, they just want power and money.

>>48842121
>implying a hero can't struggle without it being a tale of gray and grit

A hero needs to struggle in order for the victory to mean anything. But the victory doesn't mean anything if his actions don't actually make anything better.

>>48842164
One of the odds should be losing a couple times.

The bad guy should walk the walk, not just talk the talk. It creates a sense of danger, and it makes it that much sweeter when the hero wins. The low point is an essential part of the heroes journey.

>>48842121
The bigger change came with the upswell of people learning about moral relativity, social constructs and cultural narratives.

Stories of mighty heroes running roughshod over evil orcs become a lot less comfortable when you realise that no-one is actually pure evil in real life, that people's views of the world are constantly informed by stories, and that stories that imply the existence of pure evil Others that need to be purged are really fucking dangerous.

>>48842146
"Like anime".
Not "like all anime".

>>48842202
>moral relativity
Absolutely destructive and stupid.

>>48842203
They didn't say "like". They said "it would be". As in, a literal 1:1 representation of anime.

Don't move the goalposts.

>>48842229
Not that I agree with you, but arguing with someone who truly believes in relativism is like trying to stomp out a puddle. It's not gonna go anywhere, and you'll just end up worse off then before.

>>48842229
I agree, but the analysis obtains under most absolutist systems, too.

>>48842038
>Why is it that "MUH GRAY AND GRAY MORALITY" is being pushed so hard in RPGs as of recent?
That's a... statement. Can you give examples?

Why just black-and-white or grey-and-grey? Can't you have neutral stories, where instead of focusing on morality, you focus on other inspirations and ideals?

>>48842235
Don't be a pedantic fuckwit.

>>48842229
Yes, because being absolutely, blindly certain that everything you believe is true and just isn't destructive or stupid at all!

>>48842251
>>48842253
My stance isn't so much hatred of moral relativism as much as it is the line of thought it promotes.

Sure, Kilgore Bloodfist, I understand that it's fine to other minotaurs that you killed a hundred babies so that your lineage will live on. But that's not okay by my books, and so you shall be punished.

>>48842261
Morality usually comes into play regardless. Personally I prefer stories with heroes and misguided but well intentioned villains. But those don't come around often.

>>48842271
What hogwash. You think that not being a moral relativist is only possible by blindly and unfailingly following your current beliefs?

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>>48842229
>Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.

The only acceptable kind of moral relativism

>>48842038
Because nowadays nothing is evil except being a hero

You can run state endorsed child rape rings, rob houses, sneak across borders illegally, or even destroy the reputations of the innocent and receive congratulation from society, but protecting decency, rewarding hard work and defending private property is evil

I prefer gray-and-gray settings with morally decent player characters.

People struggling to do right in a rough world.

>>48842261
Don't make broad, sweeping generalisations about an entire country's approach to animation.

>>48842038
>What happened to classic stories of valiant heroes slaying evil?

>The stories about Evil that were popular when people still believed the Devil existed and could influence you are no longer popular now that people think Evil doesn't exist and upbringing/genetics cause behavior

I realize correlation != causation but it seems kind of obvious to me.

>>48842202
>stories that imply the existence of pure evil Others that need to be purged are really fucking dangerous
yeah I make sure to keep The Hobbit under lock and key

I don't want my kids thinking goblins are evil or that dragons exist. That's dangerous knowledge.

>>48842066
>It can't be all blamed on Watchmen, though. I blame Game of Thrones, personally.
>I rather blame what I don't like than what I like.

>>48842311
I don't like Watchman, though.

>>48842277
I don't think you understand what moral relativism is.

It doesn't mean LOL MORALITY DOESN@T EXIST LET ME KILL A HUNDRED BABIES XD! It means that both you and Kilgore believe you're in the right and that an objective moral truth doesn't exist outside your own personal morality.

>>48842288
>Don't make broad, sweeping generalisations about an entire country's approach to animation.

He didn't though. There is Anime made outside that country, and non-Anime animation made inside that country.

Perhaps it is you and not he who has preconceived notions about that country.

>>48842202
>Stories of mighty heroes running roughshod over evil orcs become a lot less comfortable when you realise that no-one is actually pure evil in real life, that people's views of the world are constantly informed by stories, and that stories that imply the existence of pure evil Others that need to be purged are really fucking dangerous.

Yeah, except we're talking about fiction here. If someone can't differentiate between fiction and reality, that someone has a much bigger problem.

>>48842284
>Because nowadays nothing is evil except being a hero

>Because nowadays nothing is evil except being the kind of liar who claims to do good while hurting others

Checks out dot jaypeg

>>48842337
>if you hurt your enemies, they win.tiff

>>48842324
Yes, and be that as it may I believe my morality is superior for a cohesive and functioning people, and for their happiness.

It's not that I don't see that we're both doing what we believe is right, I just know what I'm doing is better.

>>48842307
Basically it comes down to world view.

If you believe that the world has some kind of Creator, a supreme supernatural being who created the universe and all that, then morality isn't relative. there are things that are objectively evil.

If you believe that there is no creator, that the universe just exists on its own, that either it never was created and existed for all eternity, or that it somehow created itself, then morality is relative. Good and evil are just what humanity thinks is good or evil at that time.

Basically, fedorafag atheists are responsible for moral relativism, and fantasy stories will shift to represent that. People moved away from the idea of there being objective evil and there being objective good, because it didn't align with their own personal world view, so it didn't work for them and they couldn't relate to it.

>>48842343
A lot of people seem to miss the point of this.

It's literally just saying that ultimately the only difference between the two characters is the POV and who wins. Both of them are violently trying to express their views, and both think they are infallibly right.

Though, of course, one has to take in who the original and primary belligerent is.

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The more analogous something is to reality, the easier it is to relate to. This is just something that keeps folks comfortable.

Not many people are alright with being uncomfortable and stepping into unfamiliar territory.

>>48842356
No, you believe it is.

Unless the other person also knows what they're doing is wrong/selfish.

>>48842356
>I believe my morality is superior

Well no shit.

>>48842343

>Things that were never said anywhere in the post

Listen broseph, I didn't say you couldn't win by killing people.

I'm just not going to be impressed when you claim that it means you're moral.

>>48842146
Cowboy Bebop is extremely hokey and corny.

>>48842375
>>48842374
And? Why wouldn't I?

There can only be one morality across a nation and culture. You can't have different subgroups of people abiding by different morality and laws in one nation and cultural group. That's extremely stupid.

>>48842258
I'd like to hear some examples too. I can't recall of any RPG that outright tell you anything along the lines of "not everything is black and white".
I think that's the kind of thing you could see in a White Wolf product, but I've only read Scion and Exalted 2e so I can't say. Plus WW is a product of the '90 if I recall correctly.
And if we take vydias in account: the last Witcher game came to my mind as something people could see as "grey and grey morality", but I immediately realised the game often gives you bigger or equal rewards for finding a peaceful way out of a situation.

>>48842284
actual gibberish

>>48842390
Not him, but it's a parody of a statement made by Canada's prime minister.

"If you kill your enemies, they win".

I'm not even making this up.

>>48842284
That's the most stupid and most bitter post I've seen in a while.

>>48842400
>There can only be one morality across a nation and culture

Why?

The dominant culture of a nation will inform the society of that culture which in term determines the baseline moral values. Butt each person will have their own personal morality that differs from the societal norm, some hardly deviating at all, others a lot.

Not to mention other cultures within the nation will have different cultural values and therefore different morals.

>>48842400
How is that supposed to work? There are no two adult human beings in this word that have the exact same morality

>>48842325
"Anime" is literally just the Japanese word for animation. It has fuck-all to do with style or themes. Any animation that comes from Japan = anime. Any animation from outside Japan = not anime.

Doraemon, The Wind Rises and Gurren Lagann are all anime, and they couldn't be more different if they tried.

>>48842038
Because we started to ask ourselves things like;

>Why is the evil doofus like that?
>Could he have been like us and us like him if we lived each others lives?
>So what happened to all the orcs? Were they all killed at the end? Even the little orc children who knew nothing of war?
>Did that dude just turn to banditry to feed his much loved family and hated hwat he had to do?
>That Dragon was sentient and sapient and was doing nothing but sleeping on a heap of gold. I just broke into his house and killed him for a heap of bling. Why did I feel that this wasn't a murder and robbery?
>Is trespass, theft, ecological vandalism and murder really excusable just because the other dude was a Giant? Also can we have a different whiteness account other than Jack's please?

>>48842434
Because of laws, anon. It's the reason we should never see both legal and sharia courts in a western country.

Because conflicts are inevitable.

>>48842464
Laws are based on ethics, not morality. It's not about what's right, it's about what's best.

>>48842307
One story saying something shitty isn't a problem.

When every fucking story is saying the same shitty thing, then it's a fucking problem.

That is how culture works. It's never just one shitty thing. It's the cumulative, systemic effect of lots of shitty things, taken as a whole.

>>48842356
>I believe my morality is superior

Of course you do.

No-one ever thinks they're a bad guy.

>>48842463
Of course, most of those are either clear misrepresentations of (fictional) reality, or have very simple answers that would most likely not satisfy the person asking the questions.
But I suppose ignoring reality or simple solutions to simple problems is simply what we do in this day and age.

>>48842480
that depends. they arent exactly separable in every account

Leviticus and Quran for example will tell you whats best AND right, acting both as ethic/moral guidelines and legislation

>>48842517
Absolutely. Just look at the SJW crowd who thrive off of doing exactly that.

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>>48842038
Why it's popular is because it tends to create more complex and interesting stories, and appeals more to an adult audience, which is who tabletop games largely are marketed to these days, as opposed to children, who used to be a larger share of the audience, and who prefer simple and binary perspectives of morality.

I think the better question is, why do you care? You can run whatever the fuck kind of game you want. Even if every rpg out there was promoting total ethical ambiguity, which isn't the case anyway, you could still do the most morally absolutist game imaginable if that's what you want.

That's sort of the whole point of this hobby.

>>48842311

Watchman hasn't been relevant for years anon.

GoT is the new hotness and it constantly pushes the idea of gray vs. gray morality.

>>48842400
>There can only be one morality across a nation and culture
Bullcrap. There can only be one morality across a nation or culture if one of the morality encompassed in that nation or culture think there can be only one.
And even in that broad group of people who adhere to the same moral rules there is gonna be minor differences, which will grow with time and produce sometimes totally opposed moralities. It may take months, years or centuries but it will happen, because each individual is different and hold a different set of beliefs, even if these difference are minor.

>>48842277
>You think that not being a moral relativist is only possible by blindly and unfailingly following your current beliefs?

Not that guy, but if you don't believe that morality is either objective or subjective, what DO you believe?

>>48842130
>most grey morality stories were hacky garbage
Let's be honest, friend. Most genre fiction in general is garbage. How it seems the world hardly matters.

>>48842450
Isn't Doraemon korean?

>>48842541
That morality should be determined by what works best and produces the best results for people.

>>48842284
*Tipping intensifies*

>>48842556
How do you determine what's best? And who are the people?

>>48842564
How do I determine what's best? Look at when things worked the best and people were happiest.

>>48842548
Lord almighty no. Shit is a Japanese cultural icon.

>>48842464
Haha holy shit, any decent lawyer would laugh their asses off at that statement.

Laws are mutable constructs, invented and enforced by fallible human beings. The number of laws that have been passed and enforced at some point or another based on totally erroneous premises and beliefs is staggering. Shit, if what you say is true, then why do people ever contest their country's laws? By your logic, their moral values should already align with the law (or vice versa), so there should be no conflict in the first place.

Also, I'm pretty sure there are many western countries with large muslim populations where sharia courts are allowed and respected, if all parties involved consent to their judgement. So I guess conflict isn't inevitable.

>>48842567
Why is happiness the ultimate goal? What about happiness makes it better than not happiness? What about technological progress? Or industrial domination of the whole planet? Or you having all the money?

What makes it better than that? Other than your opinion?

>>48842567
But works best has changed throughout history meaning your morality must change meaning your morality is subjective.

>>48842576
You don't seem to know what's going on the world, friend, if you think muslim morality and western morality can remotely coexist.

Those courts exist hush hush, with the government too afraid to arrest them. They're taking advantage of the good faith of their host country, and they should be punished for the inhumanity they cultivate.

>>48842556
>That morality should be determined by what works best and produces the best results for people.

Not how it works. You come closer to something that makes sense if you say:

>Actions should be moral and
>morality is what works best and produces the best results for people.

>>48842480
>It's not about what's right, it's about what's best
What you think is right will most likely coincide with what you think is best, For example, none who's morality prioritizes freedom will pass a law that allows people to be put into jail without a trial.

>>48842556
But that's subjective morality you clot.

>>48842331
The way we write reveals the way we think.

>>48842578
>about technological progress? Or industrial domination of the whole planet? Or you having all the money?

all these things make you happy anon

>>48842576
>what is divine law
theres a reason Shariah courts are so attractive to some, they dont apply to your post 1:1

>>48842559
But he's right you know...

>>48842541
That goodness and justice are worth striving for, while acknowledging that the things I'm striving for aren't as concrete as I'd like them to be.

If I met a man who did evil things, but regretted them, or never wanted to do them in the first place but had no other choice, I would be inclined to forgive him, and help him back to the light. Because I know I likely would have done no better in his place.

Remorse is rarer than gold. It should be cherished whenever it is found.

>>48842632
What if they don't, but someone presents them as a better objective for what we want to achieve with our systems of morality?

Are they objectively wrong? Says what?

>>48842617
>Actions should be moral
But why?

>>48842609
>Those courts exist hush hush
Ah yes, super hush
http://www.matribunal.com/

>too afraid to arrest them
Afraid of being shitcanned immediately for arresting somebody following the law, that is. This law, specifically:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_Act_1996

I'm curious, Anon, what exactly is it you think that's going on that is immoral or illegal here?

>>48842048
dude real life lmao

>>48842653
10 bucks he says something about "degeneracy"

>>48842576

Have you read Friedman's draft to Legal Systems Very Different From Ours? Amazing campaign fodder.

>>48842653
>I'm curious, Anon, what exactly is it you think that's going on that is immoral or illegal here?
First of all, what "here" are you referring to? England? US? Canada?

Because I can safely say that polygamy, child marriages and condoned martial rape are not legal or moral.

>>48842651
>But why?

Listen IDGAF, I'm just telling that other anon that his post conflated too many concepts into one sentence.

>>48842116
>If it were otherwise, it would be anime.
That's a stupid comparisson and sounds like "I don't like anime so everything bad is anime"

>>48842668
>Because I can safely say that polygamy, child marriages and condoned martial rape are not legal or moral.

Not legal in your country maybe. Not moral to you sure. Doesn't make those actions immoral or illegal though.

>>48842609
That doesn't mean western morality doesn't exist out of dozens of sub-moralities that manage to co-exist.

>>48842653
>what exactly is it you think that's going on that is immoral or illegal here?

look up separation of church and state then try and explain why letting a bronze age savage murder cult enforce the law is moral

people so retarded they still have imaginary friends as an adult should stay the fuck out of law

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Anyone who tolerates mudslimes is a fucking moron.
Their barbaric values are directly opposed to the values of most western countries.
Thank the old gods that their ilk are hated in my homeland, and last year saw dozens of firebomb attacks against the "refugee" centers.
The sooner every single one of them is kicked out, the better.

>>48842668
>where

UK - for easy access to internet resources

>Because I can safely say that polygamy, child marriages and condoned martial rape are not legal or moral.

And no Shariah court in the UK can legally exonerate those, so... again what's the problem?

>>48842038
Nietzsche. Specifically thus spake Zarathustra,

>>48842677
Yes. Not being legal in my country makes it illegal. That's how the law works.

>>48842695
But they're not universally illegal. Because, much like morality, law is subjective and varies from place to place.

>>48842688
I understand you are just doing this cross /pol/lination thing as a troll, but I must admire the inherent irony (sarcasm?) in your statement. It's subtle, yet cutting.

>>48842678
In europe.
In America there are only two sides, blue vs red and those teams would totally fucking kill each other if they thought they could.
Reminder that all the people that think Trump is literally Hitler would totally kill Hitler before his rise to power given the chance.

>>48842681

Man those were a lot of words not saying what wrong things happen.

What actually goes wrong, beyond getting your butt flustered. Let's say somebody sets up a Shariah court in your home town. Why is this a problem, by which I mean: What goes wrong next? Who gets hurt, and how?

>>48842651
Because an immoral action is evil.

>>48842677
>Doesn't make those actions immoral or illegal though.
>Fucking children and rape are not immoral

Moral relativists are cancer.

>>48842704
That doesn't make all other laws right, or even acceptable, though.

>>48842704
Why speak about universal law when it does no exist?

>>48842689
"Legally". There should be no Sharia court, anon. Because that operates outside of state laws.

Taking the UK for example: do you think the grooming gangs and sexual slavery should be legal because the muslim qouran promotes slavery?

>>48842719
They're immoral to me. They're immoral to you. That doesn't make them immoral.

Try to understand basic philosophy before you talk about it.

>>48842727
Why talk about universal morality when it doesn't exist?

>>48842718
Why shouldn't we do evil?

>>48842719
It's about challenging people to justify their beliefs. Not to actually disagree with them. I don't think anyone here would say that raping kiddies is a good thing, but at the same time one ought to think critically about why it's a bad thing. Or else they're just doing what other people have told them to do with no actual thought.

>>48842715
criminals walk free because they get tried at a court which chooses to put superstition over justice

the man in the sky who puts voices iny head says what you did is fine, go on my son!

>>48842627
And nothing is more revealing than when someone attempts to be "apolitical".

>>48842729
>"Legally". There should be no Sharia court, anon. Because that operates outside of state laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitration_Act_1996

>Taking the UK for example: do you think the grooming gangs and sexual slavery should be legal because the muslim qouran promotes slavery?
Taking the UK for example, what does any of that have to do with Shariah courts being permitted? Hint: Nothing.

>>48842649
Nice principles, and I agree, but that doesn't answer the question.

>>48842739
>philosophy
The cuckening of the mind

>>48842744
>why it's a bad thing
but it isn't, an invisible man in the sky says so

>>48842744
So, succinctly, it's about us beating our dicks at you to prove how we're smarter or better read or something on this Mongolian pottery chat group.

>>48842742
Because it's immoral!

Shees anon, this is simple stuff. Do try to keep up.

>>48842747
>criminals walk free because they get tried at a court which chooses to put superstition over justice

How? Did you not report the criminal to the police? Why not?

>>48842649
Spoken like a true paladin.

>>48842747

Not that anon but, why would they go free?

Also, how is this better or worse than the western justice system that also allows criminals to walk free because they could afford a good lawyer?

>>48842650
i dont really get your response, sorry. care to elaborate?

>>48842689
not legally in terms of "legal in the eyes of the state", but legal to the muslims who went to these courts in the first place and preferred its rulings to the laws of the state which are binding for everyone. which is why its called a parallel justice system in the first place.
In Germany even our government admits this is a problem that must be addressed.

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>>48842706
I am dead serious m8.
Mudslimes, shitskins etc non Finns do not belong in my homeland. Their presence here is an affront towards my ancestors, and a threat to the future of my people. I want them all gone from here, by force if necessary.
I don't give rat's ass about their "plight" and supposed suffering. They do not belong here. We have no reason to aid them one bit. Nobody aided us when we were nearly africa tier shithole 100 years ago. Nobody gave us anything but token aid and "grave concerns" when USSR tried to conquer us.

Fuck them, they should all be sent back to africa or whatever shithole they crawled from. Finland is for Finns, not for shitskins.

>>48842766
Thanks, at last I truly see.

>>48842773
>>48842773
If someone says that achieving maximal human happiness is not the moral imperative, is he objectively wrong?

>>48842116

>implying anime isnt full of edgy antiheroes

>>48842755
That has everything to do with it. If you import muslim culture, which you're advocating doing, you IMPORT MUSLIM CULTURE, which is what resulted in the grooming gangs and sex trade.

>>48842774
Finland is for Koreans.

>>48842774
Bad news anon: you are also from Africa.

>>48842038
It's a cycle. Before Star Wars was released the most common Hollywood movies you saw were about anti-heroes doing questionable things. After Star Wars more simple stories about heroic heroes and villanous villains once again became more popular.

Right now we're in one of those periods where grey morality is very popular. It started, I suspect, largely with Alan Moore's attempt to deconstruct superheroes which then influenced much other media, including GRRM.

>>48842681
Meanwhile, the USA's political system is full of hardcore Christians, with beliefs barely a few steps removed from the Islamic extremists they so despise, and no-one cares because they're "western culture".

>>48842784
ah, i see. thanks for putting it in other words

i would not say so, but thats because i come from a family of biologists and got taught that the "natural" goal to strive for is producing as many offspring as possible. Everything else is just humans making shit up (and thank god for that).

but i think it would be really tricky to make a system not based on happiness.

>>48842729
>the muslim qouran promotes slavery?

Okay, so after a quick search cause I keep hearing this: according to wikipedia, it actually doesn't _promote_ slavery. It has laws for slavery, and when/how taking slaves are permitted (just like the bible has that whole "how many camels your daughter is worth" thing). What it _does_ promote is releasing slaves. At least, wiki claims Muhammad & co bought and freed something like 3k slaves.

Is wiki lying to me, or people are just being selectively blind?

>>48842038
Current Zeitgeist.

>>48842774
Also mongolians

>>48842760
(you)

>>48842813
In any discussion, on the internet and in real life, americans are considered the laughing stock of western culture though.

>>48842773
Parallel systems exist everywhere. They are a good thing, because the actual Law is heavy and inflexible. In school, if lil Jimmy tells the teacher that lil Albert stole his pencil, you don't get the police involved because that's just wasting everybody's time. Instead, the teacher - a local authority figure - handles the problem. And it only works because both students submit to the authority of the school system.

Shariah courts are exactly the same, scaled up a little.

If lil Jimmy had, instead, been killed by lil Albert, and for some God damn reason Jimmy's parents called the school instead of the police, the problem is not that the school is empowered to make decisions about school things, the problem is that in case of murder you should be calling the police.

>>48842828
Who isn't the laughing stock of Western culture?

>>48842813
>Meanwhile, the USA's political system is full of hardcore Christians, with beliefs barely a few steps removed from the Islamic extremists they so despise
How so?

>>48842818
The word of Muhammad is the word of Allah, and he is the example to be followed. And lemme tell you, anon, he loved his slaves. Had a harem of sex slaves if I recall.

Hell, there's /still/ a slave trade in the middle east.

>>48842818
Wiki isn't lying to you. The Bible also includes laws for slavery.
>But that's old testament so it doesn't count
So are the rules against homosexuality.

>>48842836
Any nation that is not the USA

>>48842801
bad news anon: you're from the ocean.

OH SHIT WAIT

bad news anon:you're from space.

>>48842836
Good point.

Everyone hates Americans. And all Europeans hate each other.

>>48842786
>That has everything to do with it. If you import muslim culture, which you're advocating doing, you IMPORT MUSLIM CULTURE, which is what resulted in the grooming gangs and sex trade.

So your claim, let me get it here, is that because Shariah Courts exist, the police no longer take complaints about muslims seriously?

Mate that sounds like you need a better quality of police.

>>48842844
Being against homosexuality has less to do with the actual old testament laws and more to do with the whole slippery slope thing.

Which, sadly, is proving to have been accurate, if the recent push towards pedophilia is anything to go by.

>>48842742
>why shouldn't we do evil

on a large scale
>blow up the planet Bond villain style
you live on the planet and have no feasible way of getting off or surviving even if you could when they go off.

smaller scale
>go all Ted Bundy
mob of people come after you with torches and pitchforks

>kill one innocent person.
constantly worry if you really got rid of evidence and how solid your alibi is.

granted there are other reasons than fear of reprisal but i like to use it because self preservation and general self interest are very powerful motivating factors.

>>48842758
Yes it does. I hold the pursuit of goodness and justice above all. I also recognise that those things only really exist in my head.

Still, I'd rather live my life believing Good exists, than the alternative.

>>48842850
And Americans hate Europeans. Everybody is kinda tepid about Canada, depending on the PM. I guess New Zealand isn't the laughing stock of western culture?

>>48842816
>producing as many offspring as possible
Not him, but that's effective suicide anon, unless "as possible" takes into account that the "as possible" is way surpassed and that we should reduce our population

>>48842818
Probably the latter. The old testtament of the bible says its fine to rip unborn children from their mothers wombs. Abrahamic religions in general are pretty barbaric. What makes a religous person an effective member of society is how much they're willing to ignore.

>>48842844
Minor correction: the New Testament still condemns homosexuality.

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>>48842800
Asians are ok, as they assimilate and actually respect our laws and culture.
Plus, we are mongols, so we have genetic affinity to them anyways.

>>48842801
Yes, and?
Contrary to the modern africans, my ancestors actually left that shithole, countless generations ago and have been living in this land for well over 1000 years, if not more.
Our roots run deep here, our very language and culture was shaped by us living in this cold land of countless lakes and dark forests.
This land is ours, there is no other homeland for my people. Mudslimes, etc shitskins can stay in their fucking homelands, and get the fuck out of mine. They don't belong here, and they are of nothing but harm and trouble.

>>48842824
Do you think that being part mongol is something worth being ashamed of? Mongols were great warriors.

>>48842841

>How so?

Not that anon but...

Look at how Americans treat sexual health. Woman can't get abortions in certain states, they can't get birth control, and there are even cases where planned parenthood clinics have gotten FUCKING BOMBED because someone got so offended that they thought that murdering doctors and young woman was more moral than allowing them to kill a zygote.

And that's only one example.

>>48842861
They shag sheep. They're the Wales of Upside Down Land.

>>48842774
>Nobody aided us when we were nearly africa tier shithole 100 years ago.

Maybe everyone should just let go of the past?

I'm serious. Making decisions based on what someone's ancestors did to somebody else's ancestors is fucking retarded (and yes, that involves slavery in the americas). You weren't alive back then. None of the people who are seeking aid have been alive back then. Why the fuck would you carry a grudge you have nothing to do with?

>>48842855
That has less to do with allowing pedophilia, and more to do with treating it like a mental illness or handicap. Obviously they ought not to be able to diddle little Sally, but can they really be blamed for thoughts that they were potentially born with?

>>48842774
None of the people you're angry at had anything to do with the terrible shit that the USSR did.

>>48842857
So it's perfectly acceptable if someone does not fear the repercussions?

>>48842882
Finns are notorious shitposters. Why engage?

>>48842764
Well, I'd say it's about teaching people how to think, but that's also a viable way of looking at it.

>>48842855
>Being against homosexuality has less to do with the actual old testament laws and more to do with the whole slippery slope thing.
>This hand-wringing and delusion

>>48842855

If Pedophilia ever becomes culturally accepted than the age of consent would be lowered by consequence.

And nobody in the Senate wants to be known as "the guy who voted Yes on making the age of consent 10 for all 50 states."

>>48842886
For fun.

Also, to tie back into the discussion, is hedonism inherently evil?

>>48842873
Are you honestly implying that access to birth control and abortions is near the level of bullshit that the islamic extremists do?

Are you that stupid? Or just ill informed?

>>48842877
And that's the first step to allowing it. Go back fifty years and you will hear the exact same statement about a homosexual person.

>>48842877
>what is NAMBLA
The only dropped it once they realized that it would be way easier to get general faggotry accepted, not because of any moral concerns

>>48842169
Maybe people are just sick of assholes coming in every 4-8 years based on lies and looting everything then fucking off after they have shared it out amongst their friends and can't be held accountable any more.

I'd rather have a monarchy (which would be considered fascist these days) where the guy in charge at least has a reason not to smash and grab like a nigger. It's his shit, he needs to grow it not fuck it up unlike democracy which is just smash and grab city.

People are just ignoring the fact that if something is classic, it's fucking boring... because it's a classic.

Like how many times can you watch a single movie or genre until you get bored of it? People like morally grey things because it provides for greater variety than just "good vs bad, good wins"

>>48842876
What you are saying "should" be common knowledge anon
Of course, this is relative (like old threats that still exist), but people really should let go of the past, unless they're in a ttrpg

>>48842896
I would say bombing abortion clinics is exactly the level of your average Islamic extremist.

>>48842893
Only if you derive pleasure from hurting/killing innocent people. Otherwise, I don't think so.

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>>48842876
>>48842882
You are missing the point.
I am not mad at ruskies, if anything, I am somewhat thankful to them, because they indirectly helped us unify as a country against a common enemy.

Nobody aided us, and yet, we managed to build a relatively prosperous and free democratic country in this ass end of nowhere with no outside aid.

Why the hell should we aid some nignogs and mudslimes who are only seeking to leech of our society and actively hate our people, culture, and values?

>>48842886
Racism.

>>48842835
they are not "scaled up a little"
they are scaled up to the point that actions that are a matter of the state are taken in the hands of these courts and the rulings directly violate state law. If it were just about neighbours meddling, id agree with you, but it includes violence, cutting liberties of people etc.

Our government would be happy if it would just be taking off burdens of petty shit like what you posted. But they see it as a grave problem because it directly violates basic principles of the state, like personal freedom, defense of human dignity and the force monopol

>>48842284
Oh God. /pol/ has escaped containment.

>>48842896

As I said, that was only one example.

And the fact that a religious organization bombed a building because they were offended should draw an obvious parallel mate.

>>48842893
I think the point of the discussion is that nothing is inherently evil as evil is a social construct used to describe things society deems abhorrent.

>>48842902
Sure anon, that's exactly why the original SW trilogy is boring !!!

>>48842902
A lot, if it's actually good and not just considered good/is a classic for being important.

Birth of a Nation is an important classic and I could barely watch it once. Apocalypse Now is an important classic and I've watched it three times this year.

>>48842876
>Maybe everyone should just let go of the past?
I don't see how that means he should endanger his people and let more non finns in.

>>48842930
Well... yeah

In fact the reason Star Wars originally worked so well was because it was different from everything else that was out

Are you legitimately contesting that people will like the same old things for the rest of eternity and they don't care for change or novelty?

>>48842913
And compare how rare and infrequent those have been to the recent Islamic terror attacks.

Hint: only one of those has a death count that broke 200

>>48842286
Same here actually. Although I quite like the bright and cheery - yet utterly amoral - world of Fafrhd and the Gray Mouser, where the heroes are violent, sex-crazed lunatics in a world full of other violent sex-crazed lunatics, and morality never comes into question because they only care about wenches and loot.

>>48842865
mother nature gives a shit about common sense

hence why i said "thank god we make shit up that keeps us from seeing this as our one and only goal in life"
the whole rest of nature does not, and collapses of populations happen every once in a while.

>>48842038
>Why is it that "MUH GRAY AND GRAY MORALITY" is being pushed so hard in RPGs as of recent?
More complex storylines really. And a greater opportunity to tell stories from different points of view.

>>48842038
>What happened to classic stories of valiant heroes slaying evil?
The definition of evil changed, really. It's a lot harder in modern society to point to someone and go 'that person is evil.' We have more context and less propaganda.

>>48842940
And grim and gritty shit isn't getting boring?

They were milking that cow 12 years ago.

>>48842872
>Finn
>we are mongols
This is super not how anything works.

>>48842947
>my terrorism is okay because it doesn't kill as many

wew lad

>>48842331
Yes, and when they read fiction that endorses genocide against 'evil races', much like Hitler watched Wagner plays full of noble Aesir and evil, semi-Jewish dorfs, they go full psycho.

>>48842962
>It's a lot harder in modern society to point to someone and go 'that person is evil.'
It really isn't, it's just that other evil people will attack and harass you for it, because they fear you will expose their wickedness, too.

>>48842928
It draws an obvious parallel, but it isn't a good one. There are very few violently religious christians. There are thousands of violently religious muslims.

>>48842873
>Women can't get abortions
Good, killing babies is wrong. Try to justify it how you like but it's murder, which you will be done for if you kill a pregnant woman. Instead of just killing the mother you get hit with killing the unborn baby as well, except when the mother does it and then you're just a bigot for disagreeing with it.

Birth control should be paid for by yourself not through government funded places like Planned parenthood. States should also be able to decide if they want to allow or not allow something. If you're in a state that says no birth control you can move to another one and hang around with tranny freak shows and pozzed up bug chasers. It'll be so progressive and wonderful because birth control has no side effects at all and totally hasn't fucked up multiple people's lives. Here's a hint on birth control : It makes you want to fuck people genetically similiar to you. Might want to look a bit more into your fancy little hormone fuckary and the problems it's causing in the woman and in the water supply.

There is basically zero Christianity terrorism but 99% of terrorism is cause by Muslims. So you can shove your "this one time at band camp" type story of comparing Christians to Muslims.

>>48842356
You've just demonstrated moral relativism. There is hope for you yet.

>>48842962
>It's a lot harder in modern society to point to someone and go 'that person is evil.'

except people who work hard for their wealth, people who value human rights like gun ownership, white males etc

they seem to be unequivocally called "evil"

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>>48842965
I know. It is almost a century old mene invented by Swedes (those cunts) that Finns tend to just roll with on 4chan, because bothering to explain our actual origins etc is tiresome after the 100th time.

>>48842901
I hate to break this to you, but that kind of thing happened in monarchies all the time.

>>48842964
It isn't if it's well written. Well written and changing things up is a bonus.

>>48842980
Your approval fills me with shame.

>>48842962
Actually we have more propaganda and less reality. Look at all the propaganda pushing equality and claiming everyone is totally equal.

Come on dude, it's fucking obvious that we live in a time with more propaganda than ever.

>>48842450
Anime is also a French word, because early animes were often made by French-Japanese partnerships.

>>48842982
>gun ownership
>human right
That's a Constitutional right, it's different.

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>>48842982
>owning a weapon is a human right comparable to not being enslaved etc

>>48843006
Hey, that's not fair. Don't pretend there's only one half to the propaganda.

>>48842885
Nah. as i said there are other reasons. such as is it economically viable?

>tools needed to do evil act = A
>worth of time needed to commit evil act = B
>profit = C

if A+B > C then why the hell would you do it? there's nothing to gain.

>>48843008
>>48843009
I'd argue that having the right to own means of defending yourself is pretty damn important.

>>48842924
>they are scaled up to the point that actions that are a matter of the state are taken in the hands of these courts and the rulings directly violate state law. If it were just about neighbours meddling, id agree with you, but it includes violence, cutting liberties of people etc.

If you don't want your shit handled according to Shariah, don't go to a Shariah court. Go to the police.

Now, I can foresee a problem along these lines:
>In our community, we don't go to the police even with serious cases, we go to the Shariah court and if you report your daughter's rape and murder to the police, you will be an outcast among us.

But that's not a Shariah court problem because you get the exact same dynamic where there is no Shariah court. That's an "insular community" problem. E.g. black people in the ghetto also don't go to the police when they have problems with each other, they solve that shit in alleyways. Having a Nigger Court would be a step UP for those communities.

>>48843007
This is possible, but only possible. Etymology is unclear.
>>48842450
Do you want the word "anime" to have no useful meaning whatsoever?

Be descriptivist, not prescriptivist.

>>48843021
Is it?

The right to vote is often considered a privilege. Look at Singapore. They got along just fine without it.

>>48843009
>>48843008

Having the right and ability to defend yourself is very important.

>>48842964
>isn't getting boring
morally grey isn't at all equivalent to grim and gritty

Hell, it's in the name. Grey is literally anything between black and white while good vs evil is literally just two colors, two archetypes facing against each other. Grey can be almost anything.

>>48843009

If I had to pick between "right to own a firearm" and "right to be free," I'd pick the firearm. It can keep you free once people change their minds about whether you should have any rights.

>>48842987
To be fair it was thought for a long time that the Uralic and Altaic languages belonged to the same family which would have made Finnish related to Mongolian. These days we consider them separate families with any similarities that might exist be simply because of a shared history.

>>48843014
Are you going to claim right wing propaganda is any where close to left wing propaganda? The media is 95% progressive liberals. The president quotes feminists statistics. The school system teaches equality and lessons on white privilege.

Come the fuck on man. I'm not saying the right doesn't use propaganda but it's like comparing a fly to a rhino. Of course the fly exists but it's not fucking your car up by sitting on it now is it?

>>48843037
What if you have a rifle and they have a tank?

>>48842541
Not that guy, but I believe in population control. There are too many people on this planet, so we should execute criminals and retards to improve the gene pool and cut down on crime while saving the planet. And we should exterminate all Muslims to prevent war before locking down the Middle East so the oil can't be used to kill the planet.

>>48843027
I'd consider the right to vote far, far less important than the right to have access to means of defending yourself.

>>48842982
The total lack of awareness is outstanding.

Because we all know those damn SJWs are called evil, too.

>people who work hard for their wealth
Interesting, this, isn't it. Lots of people who say they support "people who work hard for their wealth" really mean "people who don't work *too* hard for their wealth".

>>48843045
But how could a country enforce it's laws if every citizen can violently disagree with them?

>>48843032
Morally grey and grim 'n gritty almost always go hand in hand, anon.

>>48842994
If you say so. I'm not opposed to some morally troubled stories, but I'd be lying if I were to say I preferred them.

I don't like reading depressing things. God knows why I go to 4chan.

>>48842038
Black and white morality depends on a childish understanding of human psychology where people just do evil things because they're evil and good things because they're good. It's time to grow up.

>>48843043
>What if you have a rifle and they have a tank?

Then I conceal the fact that I have a rifle and shoot them from half a mile away when they're not in the tank.

For further reading, google "Warsaw Ghetto Uprising."

>>48843037
jesus christ, the nearsightedness of gun freaks amazes me

ok then you have the right to own a firearm but not the right to be free, so what happens when someone just comes up to you with more firepower? You just go "welp, guess im a slave now"

>>48843037
>>48843045
I assume you also believe that when the Anti-Christ Obama tries to take our guns half the military will desert and join you and Russia will invade on your side?

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>>48843039
I know.
The Swedes did run with that shit though.
They took those theories to USA too, and for a while, Finns were treated like shit there because of us being "mongoloids".

Whatever, I am not really mad about it, as it is pretty hilarious meme to me these days. The only thing that annoys me is the fact that those smug fucking swedes deny ever treating us Finns badly, including denying the fact that it was they who pushed that Mongol crap.

>>48843042
>Are you going to claim right wing propaganda is any where close to left wing propaganda?
It blatantly is.

There is one centrist publication in the UK. The rest are all right wing. But of course, the left is dominating propaganda.

We could get into all the fedora-tipping religion stuff in the US, too.

Or how about the fact that everyone is indoctrinated into capitalism. Libertarianism is doing better than Sanders ever did. Come on, the US is renowned for being right-wing.

>>48843022
>Having a Nigger Court would be a step UP for those communities.

no
teaching these people from the very beginning that they are expected to go to the courts provided by the state would be a step up.

everything else just cements the problems with insular communities and further separates them from the bulk of the society

yes, parallel justice is a problem with those insular communities and not just a islam thing. but the black ghetto is closer to "normal" society than the muslim ghetto with the shariah court, because it shows an additional sign of a parallel society and thus differs even more.

>>48843052
By having fair laws that a lot of people won't violently disagree with?

>>48843044
Holy shit Adolf, I thought you were dead! It's been ages buddy, what have you been up to?

>>48843061
What happens when someone who picks freedom runs into someone with more firepower? The level of force needed to deal with a gun owner is higher than the level of force required to deal with a non-gun owner. As such the ability to oppress people requires vastly different levels of force and resources which means the gun owning option is the better one.

>>48843059
>b-but he had such a difficult childhood
>that makes him raping, murdering and cannibalizing this 6 year old okay. we shouldn't blame him for it
This is what evil people actually believe

>>48842977

>My religion is better than yours.

Okay, how about organizations like the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church?

What about people who drags homosexuals by the back of a pick up truck and castrated transexuals?

What about Christian parents who beat their children with plastic piping and hold their babies under a running faucet to keep them from crying?

Not to mention all the old shit like the crusades and the Catholic Church, who invented implements of torture such as the pear, the iron maiden, the pyramid, the breast ripper, etc. in the name of curing heretics of their devotion to a "false god."

Just as there are thousands of violently religious muslims, so too are there violently religious Christians, it's just that you don't hear about them a lot because it goes against the narrative.

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>>48843063
I'm not murrican m8.
But Obama is a nignog and a shit president.
Hail Trump.

>>48843070
>teaching these people from the very beginning that they are expected to go to the courts provided by the state would be a step up.
That's a big step down.
>>48843052
>he wants to be enforced

>>48843061
>ok then you have the right to own a firearm but not the right to be free, so what happens when someone just comes up to you with more firepower? You just go "welp, guess im a slave now"

Then you fight smarter. There's no promise that your right to freedom will be protected by them. But you can protect it yourself.

>>48843068
To be honest, I'd rather be known as a snow gook than a swede. I don't like arabic stuff.

>>48843048
>Lots of people who say they support "people who work hard for their wealth" really mean "people who don't work *too* hard for their wealth".

No, I really mean people who become rich because they actually worked

what you parasites hate are people who have what you never will - talent, wealth and success

you want what they EARNED given to you for doing nothing

you think you DESERVE what people have to WORK for

you TAKE but never PAY and the free ride needs to stop

>>48843082
>it makes it ok

No it makes it understandable you retard.

>>48843069
Please list these right wing news papers while I'm over here looking at the BBC, the largest news network in the country pushing diversity to the point where they hired a fucking girl with tourettes to do voice over work.

>>48843017
If the only pleasure one can get out of one's life is of the sadistic variety, it becomes a seemingly huge profit.

>>48843071
And those that will always disagree with them? Career criminals, crimes of passion, crimes of desperation.

>>48843097
You do realise Tourettes doesn't make you swear constantly and is more often than not just a physical twitch?

>>48843083
>the crusade meme
>torture devices that were either completely made up or used by non-clerical institutions just as much

and you had such a good point up to there, why'd you flush it down the toilet?

>>48843083
You forgot Africa.
>>48843094
What about criminals?

Oh, you don't like them?

What about communists? What about fascists, for that matter? Don't be a hypocrite.

Taking is working.
>>48843097
The Times, The Daily Mail (most popular paper there is, except for...), The Sun, The Telegraph, The Everything Else...

And as for the BBC; they're fundamentally centrist.

>>48842979

see >>48843083

>>48843094
Let's disregard every people who become rich because of connections, because of luck, because of natural talent and no hard work at all.

And let's disregard that very hard working people, who go to work every morning for 10 hours a day and sleep in their cars because they can't afford a house, can be very, very fucking poor.

If you only had to work hard to become rich, a lot of poor people would be very fucking rich.

>>48843083
You really need to learn your fucking history you retarded child. The crusades were defensive, forced upon Christians because they were being invaded by Muslims. They had no choice but to reclaim their taken land and then go fuck up the Muslim barbarians to stop them doing exactly what they're doing today in Europe yet again.

It's clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and you get your ideas from Youtube atheists who do not understand why religion is vital for a healthy society or why some religions are completely fucked up while others are exactly what you need to build nations.

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>>48843091
>To be honest, I'd rather be known as a snow gook than a swede
Completely agree with you there.
Swedes are pathetic and I almost pity them these days. Still doesn't change the fact that historically, they were utter cunts towards my people.
Karma is a bitch.

>>48843061
>ok then you have the right to own a firearm but not the right to be free, so what happens when someone just comes up to you with more firepower? You just go "welp, guess im a slave now"

>Noguns but constitutionally protected freedom
>They decide to come for your freedom too
>Damn


>Guns and no protected freedom
>They decide to come for your guns too
>They realize that despite superior firepower, it will cost them hundreds of lives
>They decide not to come for your freedom

>>48843119
Nice bait mate. Now post the picture showing crusade battles vs muslim conquests.

>>48843068
>those smug fucking swedes deny ever treating us Finns badly
I think people are starting to realize it more and more. I've even heard it theorised that we lost Finland to Russia largely because the Finns were so fucking tired of taking Sweden's bullshit that they essentially handed themselves over.

>>48843083
>direct violations of Jesus/Pauls teachings vs simply following the word of God

and yes, i have read the Quran as well as the Bible

>>48843096
But it doesn't. I literally can not fathom why someone would commit such heinous crimes, and I wouldn't even consider myself to be a particularly "good" or "noble" person.
How, then, can it be anything other than pure, unbridled evil?

>>48843083
>Okay, how about organizations like the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church?

Well, the KKK has no power now, is a laughing stock and is hated on sight. The Westboro Baptist Church was started on a dare and they just put up mean, hurtful signs.

>What about people who drags homosexuals by the back of a pick up truck and castrated transexuals?
They're immoral and should be punished, obviously.

>
What about Christian parents who beat their children with plastic piping and hold their babies under a running faucet to keep them from crying?
They're immoral and deserve to be punished, obviously.

>Not to mention all the old shit like the crusades and the Catholic Church, who invented implements of torture such as the pear, the iron maiden, the pyramid, the breast ripper, etc. in the name of curing heretics of their devotion to a "false god."

Please tell me you are trolling. Please, please tell me. You know so little about the crusades that I think it must be a joke.

I'll not defend all the actions of the crusaders, for their sins were many. But the crusades overall was a series of defensive wars fought against the rapidly conquering muslim empire.

>Just as there are thousands of violently religious muslims, so too are there violently religious Christians, it's just that you don't hear about them a lot because it goes against the narrative.
Hundreds aren't dead in France or Orlando by Christian hands, you stupid fuck. Hundreds of CHILDREN aren't raped, tortured and sold into sexual slavery in the UK by Christian hands.

>>48843114
And a lot of rich people would become very poor.
>>48843119
>the Crusades were defensive
>people still think this
Kek.

The Fourth Crusade sure was a just war, right?

And I'm sure the fact that the Byzantines only asked for a small force of soldiers but got a hundred thousand thieving motherfuckers who heard about the Holy Land and saw dollar signs has nothing to do with anything, right?

>>48843099
Then they will be fought by the majority of good intentioned people?

I feel like this thread has diverged greatly from anything related to /tg/.

>>48843119

>Religion is needed for a healthy

Wew lad.

At least when atheists do shit, they don't try to claim that it's okay because their imaginary friend told them so.

>>48843063
>I assume you also believe that when the Anti-Christ Obama tries to take our guns half the military will desert and join you and Russia will invade on your side?

No. It is decidedly obvious that the military does what their officers say, and the officers like being invited to tea parties at the white house.

But guns allow you to shoot at the fools trying to take your freedom away. You may still lose, but you would have lost faster without the guns - and they'd have started earlier, because the would know you didn't have guns.

>>48842038
It's because of the Cold War.
You see kids, most western media is run by the left, and as such they are deeply uncomfortable with the idea of a left-winger being portrayed as evil.
This is because there was never forced clear water between the democratic Left and the dictatorial Left like there was on the Right (if Jack Straw had been a former BNP member rather than a former Maoist his career would have never got off the ground).
As such with a few exceptions like the Rambo movies, whenever the Soviets or Viet Cong were portrayed on screen it was with heavy caveats that there was good and bad on both sides and the important plot was really about fighting the bad guys on "our" side".
Much of the western left still believes that Kennedy was shot by either "hate" or by the CIA because that's easier than believing that it was a communist who hated Kennedy's anti-communism.
That whole worldview flowed naturally into other media because it seemed "realistic" to the self-loathing western left.

>>48843134
>Hundreds aren't dead in France or Orlando by Christian hands, you stupid fuck. Hundreds of CHILDREN aren't raped, tortured and sold into sexual slavery in the UK by Christian hands.
Careful choice of words, there, isn't there?

Amazing how HUNDREDS of UK kids matter more than MILLIONS of nignog kids, right?

>>48843114
>very hard working people, who go to work every morning for 10 hours a day and sleep in their cars because they can't afford a house, can be very, very fucking poor.

fuck off you millennial parasite

flipping burgers isn't hard work, perhaps you should have fucking applied yourself in college rather than studying liberal arts and going to diversity club

t. someone who went to a proper college and now earns six figures doing a real job

>>48843133
>I can't get it, so it's pure evil
Come on.
>>48843146
Yes. Yes it did.
>>48843145
>the majority of good intentioned people
good joke

>>48843133
Look into serial killer psychology. It's fascinating. But they're pretty much all the heroes of their own stories.

>>48843155
Yes, of course, if you aren't African yourself.

>>48843146
no shit, but its just funny to argue. could really understand if the mods would kill it off though

>>48843155
how did Christianity kill millions of blacks anon? please enlighten me

>>48843155
MIllions of nignog kids aren't killed by Christian hands, not today anyway.

I'll not deny that Christianity has done bad in the past. But as of the last century or so they have done much less harm than Islam.

>>48843161
We all believe you.

>>48843107
you do realise it's really fucking hard to understand "Coming up next is Eastenders" while the bitch is saying hamster and biscuit over and over right?

>>48843110
Mate, you're fucked in the head if you think the BBC is centrist. It is full on marxist progressive. I think you would do well to look at the shit the BBC is pushing.

Remember the UKIP "docudrama" where they said if UKIP won votes in the election then planes would fall from the sky and they had to cut out 10 minutes of it to include a panel show after because it was so incredibly biased even they couldn't pretend it wasn't?

Shall we discuss how Brexit was represented? Shall we discuss the BBC saying they won't hire whites any more?

You're so far left you think the BBC is center. You don't even know what the fuck right wing is. You can't see that far across the political spectrum.

>>48843129
Well, Swedes used us as tax and cannon fodder, forbade the use of our language and friggin burned down houses of Finns who refused to learn Swedish at one point. Not to mention the total suppression of our pagan traditions, enforcing Christianity upon us etc (that were still strong enough 200 years ago that the authorities were still hunting down holy sites to destroy, and punishing people who partook in witchcraft).
The good Swedes did to us (like written language, lawful society instead of a bunch of tribes we had before etc), is somewhat outweighted by the shit way they treated us.

So yeah, I can see the validity of such theories.
Though, I think that the main reason was because the current Swedish king was shit at his job.

>>48843004
Good. I want you to be ashamed.

>>48843169
>how did Christianity kill millions of blacks anon? please enlighten me
Literally every war in central Africa.
>>48843168
You're French and English and American?
>>48843170
>what is the Congo
>>48843175
>It is full on marxist progressive
Holy shit.

>>48843161
Wow what an argument!
I'm astonished, it's marvelous!

So, how about the guy who break his back everyday, working in construction or in a wharehouse, beginning at 6 AM and finishing at 6 PM, everyday, for a miserable pay, because that's all he can do?

Well, he bust his ass way more than you, and he's poor as fuck, you chump.

>>48843169
>>48843170
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic_Civil_War_(2012%E2%80%93present)

>>48843175
>not supporting Brexit now makes you a Marxist
Ironic, 'cause most Marxists supported Brexit.

>>48843178
>what is the Congo
A wartorn hell hole full of gang violence, warlords, child soldiers and infant rape.

>>48843070
>teaching these people from the very beginning that they are expected to go to the courts provided by the state would be a step up.

Didn't say it wouldn't be. But from the current situation, "nigger court" would still be a step up.

Things happen because of reasons. Niggers don't use the real court system for a reason - in particular, they all have outstanding warrants for drugs or driving without a license (which they lost due to transporting drugs). Nobody is going to teach niggers that they can go to the normal justice system when the normal justice system keeps arresting niggers for outstanding warrants when they show up.

>>48843175
>you do realise it's really fucking hard to understand "Coming up next is Eastenders" while the bitch is saying hamster and biscuit over and over right?

Link to this?

>Thread starts off with a discussion on gray morality
>Ends with religious flame wars on which side is less shit than the other.

I'm out, see you chuds in the next thread derailment, I guess.

>>48843197
>A wartorn Christian hell hole full of gang violence, warlords, child soldiers and infant rape.
You missed a word.

>>48842038
Good versus evil is kind of a long running fad. The classical heroes like Hercules were assholes, being a genuinely nice guy like Prometheus didn't ensure you a happy ending. Even in the OT, lots of the characters were dicks to each other and that didn't keep them from being favored by God.

Why should RPGs conform to Christian or Humanistic values? They rip off mythologies like those of the ancient Greeks or of the ancient Nordics, but none of their values come through. They just take the bare bones from Tolkien fan fiction and add a paint job. How is that better?

>>48843037
In countries with legalised firearms, criminals kill people more often. Batimore alone has more murders than the UK (which isn't surprising considering that very few happen outside London).

>>48843147
Have you noticed the decline in the West matches the decline of our religions?

I'm not religious but I understand why we need it. Sky wizards can fuck off but the lessons Christianity tried to teach people were the key components to a functional society. The problem is you need to make people obey those things without having to physically force it. Which is why the Sky wizard is useful.

>>48843162
I can't get it and that particular act is evil. it doesn't necessarily follow.
There are also good things I don't get, like someone devoting their entire life to helping the poor or the sick.

>>48843163
Certainly. I don't think there are many people who wake up with the intention to be evil. Even Hitler probably thought he was doing good.
That, of course, has no bearing on if what you're doing is actually good or evil.

>>48843169
>how did Christianity kill millions of blacks anon?
Well you see Christian slavers didn't castrate their slaves like Muslim slavers, so those slaves had descendants that would have descendants and those descendants eventually died through various causes. Hence, millions of black people have died due to Christianity.

>>48843188
>The anti-balaka militias originally formed in the 1990s as village self-defense forces.[6][7] >Some militiamen are animist.[6]

>be black
>defend yourself against islamic imperialism
>you're murdering black people!
Wow, you sure are stupid.

>>48843216
Also, notably, there are more violent crimes per capita in the UK, but significantly less fatalities.

Turns out stabbings and beatings are a lot less lethal.

>>48843188
So, a civil war that is a push back from an islamic regime?

You're not making your case very well. Not that I condone such atrocities, but it sounds like life was pretty hell for christians there.

>>48843207
I'm pretty sure the warlords of the Congo aren't screaming "JESUS LOVES YOU JESUS LOVES YOU JESUS LOVES YOU" as they rape and pillage Anon.

>>48842774
>Finns

I visited recently. Nice country, though your accent in English is fucking hilarious.

Your government is like a Class A shit show though, how do you fucking stand it?

>>48843155
Yes, well educated white children are much more important than uneducated niggers with an sub 75 IQ.

Simple reality. If you're educated, have a higher IQ and are of better genetic stock then you are more valuable.

>>48843224
>Well you see Christian slavers didn't castrate their slaves
No, they bred and raped them.

>be Muslim
>defend yourself against Western imperialism
>you're murdering white people!
Wow, you sure are stupid.

>>48843229
Most gun deaths are suicides.

>>48843237
>christians aren't commiting atrocities against muslims in africa
>provide evidence they are
>oh well it's justified because muslims are evil

Top jej.

>>48843077
Not much. Been hanging around on Stormfront, but I moved to /pol/ after Stormfront started allowing spergs to join.

>>48843248
The statistic I was referring to was specifically death from violent crimes.

So it wasn't even taking into account suicides. Which are also lower in the UK.

>>48843178
>You're French and English and American?
The farther away something happens, the less I can care.
If my brother was murdered I'd react differently than if it was "just" a friend. And if it's just a random person in my city I care even less.

Now France and England are still close enough (not just geographically) that I kind of care about what happens to them. Some shithole in the jungles of africa? So what?

>>48843191
No they didn't, they supported staying in the EU because it meant it was closer to open borders and they could flood the country with more rapeugees.

Fucking hell /tg/, I swear you spend all day in fantasy worlds and have no clue what's going on in the world.

>>48843239
I think they might be...
Africans are crazy like that

>>48843161
if that's the case then why are you getting into a political argument on a gaming image board? too much free time on your hands?

File: spurdoismo.png (9KB, 600x410px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 600x410px

>>48843244
We Finns have a bad tendency of just clenching our teeth and fists, and mumbling curses under our breaths when shitty stuff happens. It takes a while for us to get angry enough to actually do something about it. Last time that happened, we had a civil war.

>>48842152
you've got that backwards

>>48843176
>burned down houses of Finns who refused to learn Swedish
And now you have a party in your parliament that only exists to keep Swedish a mandatory school subject and they always sit in the government. How does this make you feel?

>>48843247
>defend yourself against Western imperialism
>by invading the West
hmmm, really made me think

>>48843247
>No, they bred and raped them.
Hence, descendants to live in western prosperity and occasionally bitch for reparations.
No slave descendants in Algiers or Istanbul despite the Arab slave trade being approximately 10 times the size of the Atlantic one. Funny how that worked out.

>>48843110
You forgot the Daily 'ban this sick filth' Express.

>>48843268
General Jesus when.

>>48843247
>Britain outlawed Slavery
>Policed the worlds oceans trying to stop slavery happening
>Britain was at the time a Christian country

Of course, white people are the worst slave owners. The first group in history to try to stop slavery are the bad guys, while the group who still practices it (Even in the UK currently ffs) are the victims here.

>>48843099
>And those that will always disagree with them? Career criminals, crimes of passion, crimes of desperation.

>Crimes of passion/despair

People who commit crimes of passion aren't going to, in general, shoot at the police when they get picked up.

>Career criminals

That's a bigger problem, definitely, but criminals getting into a gun battle with the police always ends in a dead criminal. Always

People only get into a gun battle with the police if they believe this is their best option, AKA if they are crazy OR if getting arrested by the police is worse than getting shot by the police, aka if you are a jew and the nazis want to confiscate your rifle.

>>48843293
You seem to think slavery began and ended with the Triangle Trade.

>>48842038
Things come and go in cycles. Something gets done too much and there's a reaction against that. Then people get tired of that thing, and you're back where you began. Remember, D&D started out with murder hobos in fantasy Vietnam.

>>48843256
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if you're using a christian vigilante pushback group against a brutal islamic empire then you may not be proving your point that they're both as violent.

Awful or not, they have a reason to fight back. What reason was there for the numerous terror attacks in the US and Europe? In civilian populations, of all things!

>>48843262
Most mass shootings happen in gun free zones, though. Wonder if there's a reason for it...

>>48843222
This would be more convincing if you didn't define "decline" as "people doing things I think are sinful."

>>48843296
Because the police always have bigger guns and better training than the career criminals.

So what would civilians having guns stop if the police and military actually wanted to crackdown?

Didn't stop a damn thing in Warsaw.

>>48843216

Countries with legalized firearms come in two categories: Shit countries and OK countries. In the shit countries, the firearms are not the problem and in the OK countries, the murder rate isn't notably higher.

>>48843281
Annoyed.
The new school reform that came in action just recently actually moves mandatory swedish to earlier classes (like third grade or some shit), when previously it started later.

The reason that party gets to push that shit is because it is basically the whore of our politics. It will agree with anything the other parties do, as long as the mandatory swedish is kept pushed.

Swedish speaking Finns are a weird lot in general. Where I grew up, they basically had a weird, self enforced apartheid going on, with them trying to have as little to do with Finnish speaking Finns as possible.

>>48843310
>Muslims commit atrocities against Christians
>Christians start to commit atrocities against Muslims in revenge
>whole thing spirals down into full on genocide
>this somehow doesn't prove both groups are as violent as each other

Ok sure.

>>48843271
Hey Finbro, I just want to thank you for being awesome. I really enjoy UnReal World.

>>48843184
I wonder when people will finally understand that success is 99% luck and 1% actually working hard.

>>48843303
I seem to think slavery is the natural state of humanity. The weak get controlled by the strong and that denying this is incredibly stupid.

>>48843318
I'm not religious, I don't believe in sin. I believe in behaviour that builds things and behaviour that destroys things. Religion guided people on the right path instead of nihilism and hedonism.

>>48843331
Big difference between self defense and not.

>>48843246

>Using IQ as a measure of intelligence.

Of course a fish is going to be dumb if you judge its intelligence on how well it can climb a tree.

>>48843175
Clearly you are an American. When will you realise that Bernie Sanders is not a communist, just center-right? Hell, most political parties here are somewhat centrist (except the greens and the BNP, at least), even UKIP. America is just too far right.

>>48843347
>killing innocent civillians just because they share the religion of the group you're fighting is self defense

You do not seem like a good person desu senpai.

>>48843344
I wish that we Finns produced more games inspired by our pagan past and myths.
There is pretty cool stuff in there.

For example, the concept of elves in Finnish mythology is wholly different (and more interesting imo) to the modern idea of elves.

>>48843350
Do you want to discuss African intelligence levels?

There is not a single African language that has the concept of time within it's words. The only words relating to time are put there by white scholars trying to add to their language. Please tell me how a group of people who literally were not smart enough to understand "tomorrow" as a concept are as intelligent as a group who had to understand it or would freeze to death.

>>48843363
I'm not American and you're either a troll or a retard. You think the BBC is centerist ffs

>>48843367
>Pushing back against an oppressive regime
>Same thing as killing, raping and torturing hundreds of civvies at a concert

>>48843229
Yeah, that's one of the good things about not having guns. Only problem here is that the NHS is so slow you might just bleed out anyway, but I'm up North so it doesn't really matter.

>>48843367
I am fine with killing people who are part of a religion that says that I must submit to it or be killed. I consider that to be a logical move that any sane person would understand.

>>48843350
not that guy put i gotta say i hate that turn of phrase.

that fish is dumb as hell if it's trying to climb a tree.

>>48843381
>killing, raping and torturing hundreds of innocent villagers
>killing, raping and torturing hundreds of innocent concert goers

Where's the difference?

>>48843350
I thought we were all created equal. If we were, both black and white people are "fish" and both only have their own wits to somehow climb that tree.

>>48843347

>I'm not religious, I don't believe in sin. I believe in behaviour that builds things and behaviour that destroys things. Religion guided people on the right path instead of nihilism and hedonism.

Religion is not required for a healthy society.

Education and strong incentives that reward hard work and creativity are necessary for a healthy society.

Notice, how the biggest shitholes in the world tend to be populated by uneducated and the poor? It's because when you don't value education and hard work and creativity, you just end up with violent morons who believe that violence and crime is the only means of making an actual fucking living.

>>48843216
>Most murderers in the UK happen in London
>London is 40% white

>Most gun fatalities in America are black on black crime

Hmm.. I'm noticing a pattern. Are you? Turns out that responsible people with fire arms don't kill people. Niggers with fire arms do. Niggers ignore the gun laws and get hold of fire arms any way, so responsible people have no way to protect themselves.

>>48843264
Actually Marxists son't believe in open borders. The USSR didn't have open borders. Open borders may be left wing, but so is anarchism, and that's just about as far from Marxism as you can get.

>>48843410
The first is a sad and regrettable byproduct of war.

The second is terrorist attacks on civilians in a country that isn't an active war zone.

>>48843326

In reverse order:

>Didn't stop a damn thing in Warsaw.

It did though. If the Jews didn't have guns, the Nazis could have killed them a whole lot faster and wouldn't have had to make up some lies about a resettling program.

>Because the police always have bigger guns and better training than the career criminals.
>So what would civilians having guns stop if the police and military actually wanted to crackdown?

The actual thing about police officers is that there aren't a lot of them. They can only be effective because society, in general, complies with their directions.

Taking America as our example, there are (very round numbers) 1 gun per citizen, and 200 citizens per police officer.

This means that the police can come for YOU, because there are fifty of them and one of you, but they cannot come for you if your neighborhood backs you up, because there's ten thousand of you, some of them veterans with applicable experience in urban warfare.

>>48843426
>Hmm.. I'm noticing a pattern. Are you? Turns out that responsible people with fire arms don't kill people. Poor people with fire arms do. Poor people ignore the gun laws and get hold of fire arms any way, so responsible people have no way to protect themselves.

Niggers are poor and uneducated. There used to be no niggers, so instead there were white people who were poor and uneducated. They committed all the violent crimes then.

>>48843396
>15 Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,

16 Because the Lord was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.

So we should kill Christians as well?

>>48843420
Notice a pattern about all the successful countries? They're all White Christian or Asian.

You're comparing successful white countries to nigger shitholes. You should try reading books of what happens when blacks go to "mother Africa". They come back saying "Thank fuck whites took my ancestors. Fuck that place".

>>48843310
Mass shootings are horrific, but many more deaths come from things like gangland shootings, just because they happen more often.