Besides old school D&D and pic related, are there any RPGs

>>48827428
Please post that in /osrg/ or even make your own thread if you want to get a rise out of people. I'm asking for OTHER systems which emphasize simulating an experience.

>>48827358
B/X D&D between level 1-5 with a good GM

Or GURPS

You want a simulation-heavy game where players can't abuse the rules?

Good luck. "I want rules for reality" and "I want to abuse the rules" tend to go hand-in-hand neckbeard style.

>>48830475
Thanks.

>>48827358
Beside D&D?

Into the Odd, HQRPG (by Ben Lehman, google it).
Those are light and let the DM handle the simulation aspect.

If you're looking for specific rules for more things, you should know it might make you go further away from the fiction as a world you imagine yourself in, but if you can handle it, I guess GURPS is pretty well recommended. I feel its many rules (and details-heavy rulesets in general) make people think less about the game world and more about, well, the rules of the game. That's not a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Also.
Simulation /=/ rules.

The DM makes rulings, that's his job. Read OD&D from 1974, it's never been stated this clearly : as a game master, you are the one who sould be able to portray accurately a realistic world (as in, coherent, that is) and pass judgments and make rulings accordingly. If dice rolls come into play, they're here to add randomness, not make the world more or less present, that's the DM's job (and the players, too)

I don't think you actually want a system. I think you might be better off going completely diceless, completely numberless.DO what you're asking for; base every decision on what SHOULD happen. As long as the game is fun, you should be fine. I imagine it would be a rather fast paced game, without the numbers bogging it down. Visual reference might still be a good idea, however. If you're looking for tactics heavy stuff, you really don't want to confuse people by not having some kind of grid/map/shitty whiteboard drawing.

>>48831887
Thanks.
>>48831916
I didn't say "simulation = rules." I just thought, "Oh, hey, what about a sci-fi game that's more simulation-oriented? Or horror? What about superheroes?" I know the DM makes rulings and the DM's job is to make the world consistent. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun to try out different systems, and that some systems don't do a better job of supporting rather than hindering simulation.
>>48831969
I get what you're saying, but even then, you may want a system of things written down. How long a torch lasts, for instance. Just notes for consistency's sake. Also, I do like dice for handling probability, since I don't necessarily have the ability to determine in all cases whether swinging a sword at a dude should hit, for example.

I'm not asking for the ULTIMATE simulationist game, just for games that have taken that kind of stance, much like D&D did back in the day.

>>48831916

>be >>48831887
>>48832009

Ok then!
For Science-Fiction, I recommend Traveller. It comes in various forms, my favorites are The Cerpheus System (retroclone of classic trav with mongoose rules added to the mix), Classic and Mongoose. It's pretty excellent, and you can die during chargen. It's crazy good for hard-ish sci-fi.
Stars Without Numbers does a very good job at this too, while more generic and less oriented toward simulation, it's OSR tho.
And obviously Traveller is old-school, it's like, the first sci-fi RPG.

Call of Cthulhu does a pretty good job for horror, earlier editions are easier to handle and do craziness in a fun way, later on, the craziness is more gritty but harder to roleplay well.

In the same line, Unknown Armies is a gritty modern day magick conspiracy thing, it's a bit post-modern, it's fun though a bit edgy at times (but forgive it, it's from the 90s).

Over the Edge is nice too. Conspiracy stuff on an Island, think Naked Lunch in the 90s.

Other Dust is a standalone game from the guys who did Stars Withotu Number, it does Post-Apocalyptic pretty well.

Out of all those, my favorite is HQRP because it forces you to go above and beyond in descriptive play and gritty details because there are no numbers to deal with. At all. You roll d6, sometimes with a small table attached that one can remember well.

>>48832009
But if you're really trying to be simulation, then torches wouldn't have a consistent burn time. It would depend on the construction of the torch, the weather, and all sorts of real factors. A torch made of balsa in a desert might last a few seconds. And for a sword swing, it isn't a probability thing at all. HOW is it being swung? What kind of armor is the target wearing, and what position is their shield in, if any? Dice and numbers are needless abstractions.

>>48832730
Yes, sure. That's the kind of things I think is the DM's job. If you want simulation, go and read tons of book and be super knowledgeable, and you'll be able to add much more simulation to your game.

That's not me, that's Gary who said that, by the way. I'm paraphrasing, badly.

>>48832730
Okay, and? The point of the rules are to determine that what should tend to happen, tends to happen, and then the DM fills in the gaps as best as he or she can with knowledge gleaned from real life, books, and so on, so that, as a result, the players tend to experience things in a way that makes consistent sense in-universe.

By the way, a simulation doesn't have to be as REALISTIC as possible, but just as INTERNALLY CONSISTENT as possible. You could be simulating a world in which torches literally flicker out after exactly thirty minutes. Now, I know that's odd, so what I tend to say is that after three of the periods of time that we tend to call ten minutes each, the torch tends to go out if it hasn't been put out by any other conditions. It could have lasted more or less, it's hard to say since the characters don't have watches down in the dungeon.

simulation games are best games

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and Dark Heresy tend to be pretty grounded

Fuck even for the craziness of Shadowrun if your ass gets shot that hurts.

Legend of the Five Rings

>>48836888
>shadowrun
>rules that cannot easily be exploited