>Worshipping Eilistraee Why would any male drow worship

File: 1451272414941.jpg (80KB, 475x474px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 475x474px

>>48823615
Have you tried not playing DnD? Or at least not using it's shit-tastic "lore" (since 5e is actually pretty good mechanically)?

Gotta wean of the heroin there. Safer to go on the methadone for a while.

File: spongebob_chocolate.jpg (48KB, 620x378px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 620x378px

>>48823640
This. Its the Drow overton window. Its like you tell your neighbors you're thinking about giving up Evil they're like "Well I don't agree with your decision, but I respect it.", you tell them you're giving up being a cuck, or that you hate spiders, they're all

>>48823615
Because they're good/normal people who believe that going to the surface and living among the surface races is ultimately the only way to save their race, even though it's risky.
>Female supremacist
She's Chaotic Good. Her priests can even be male now.

>>48823615
Even if they're both misandristic, Llolth treats women worse than Eilistraee treats men.

>>48823615
The clerics being only female hasn't been true for several editions now, and I genuinely think it was only true in 2e largely because "Naked Sword Guys" didn't appeal to the demographic D&D most heavily geared itself towards back then, while "Nudist Stripper Drow Heroines" most definitely did. There's even shit in there about how Eilistraee believes dancing for "the pleasure of yourself and others" is one of the best things you can do for her and that they always dance naked if they can help it.

It's literally a drow stripper goddess with a sword.
>>48823712
There's a scene in one of the shitastic novels where they act kinda female supremacist.
Said novels however were shitastic like most FR products created outside the actual 2e RPG product line rather then novels and everything WotC ever wrote for it.

>>48823738
>There's a scene in one of the shitastic novels where they act kinda female supremacist.
In retrospect, most of the novels are fucking terrible. I think they started removing the "female only" thing at some point in 2e's lifespan though.

>It's literally a drow stripper goddess with a sword.
Yeah. Honestly I can see more womyn blogs bitching about how she's a misogynist goddess more than anything. I mean, she's a traditional symbol of servile femininity: dainty, motherly, innocuous, charitable, etc. Lloth is like the head of the she-woman man-haters club.

>>48823615
>fucking whores
>having drunken sex parties
I'm pretty sure Eilistraee supports those things, though I'd probably still go with Sharess or Sune.

>>48823958
I guess it comes down to which color of armpit hair you find the sexiest.

>>48824031
why armpit hair? It's just plain disgusting and inexcusable. anal and vaginal blacksmith apron coverage with a treasure trail is where its at.

>>48823877
>I mean, she's a traditional symbol of servile femininity: dainty, motherly, innocuous, charitable, etc.
Who also wields a sword and is a huntress capable of getting as bloodthirsty as the Greek goddess Artemis when she has to.

>>48825126
Doesn't negate the previous bits and you know thats the shit feminists hate. Hell i've seen a feminist mob assault a hotchick just for walking by their rally and bodyshaming them.

>>48823615
>Why not just go full shitlord and worship the god of fucking whores and demeaning women and having drunken sex parties or something?
A lot of male drows do that already.

Worshippers of Elistrae are drows who want to be "good". They not only reject female superiority but also drow society's focus on hedonism, self interest and backstabbing.

>>48825256
Is there a god of good that rejects the first and last bit but keeps the middle bit. Like a bro god?

>>48823615
Eilistraee is not a femal supremacist deity. Although Lisa Smedman has tried her best to make her appear as a man hater, that's only and exclusively her that portrays Eilistraee like that. Keep in mind that one of her main tenets is accepting and embracing every individual simply for who they are, no matter their gender or race.

>>48823615
Eilistraee is not a femal supremacist deity. Although Lisa Smedman (one of the WotC former novelists) has tried her best to make her appear her priestesses as man haters for whatever reason, it's only and exclusively her that portrays Eilistraee like that. Keep in mind that one of Eilistraee's main tenets is accepting and embracing every individual simply for who they are, no matter their gender or race.

As for the reasons to worship Eilistraee? She careas about them and has a deep bond with her people. It starts with her history. She is the goddess who chose renounce to a life of comfort in Arvandor to follow her people and be there for them in the time of need. The goddess who chose to be one of them and to share their fate just to offer them a new hope, when basically everyone else (except her brother) didn't care and/or shunned them. Eilistraee has been since then fighting to give the drow a new life. And even if she was basically alone (her father DGAF) she has never abandoned her people.

>>48823615

Eilistraee is a mother to the whole drow race, but also a protectress. She sings to the hearts of all her people, making them feel the kindness and love, the joy and freedom that have been taken from them, and sending dreams and visions to lure them into her embrace. At some point in their life, all of them come to feel the call of the Dark Maiden, to know her and feel her caring for them. She works to help the dark elves flourish in a world that has become hostile and foreign to them, but that is their rightful home. She also enjoys to directly help her people in small practical ways, like scaring off aggressors, sending visions warning of danger, or leading a stag within the reach of a hungry drow. She often provides dancing beams of moonlight that move about guiding those who are lost in the dark and leading them to safety, or to lighten childbirths. She is also known to often appear when her children need confort and her visible support in difficult moments (or to welcome a new drow to ''join her dance''). It usually happens through her own Moonfire, or as a protecting, shadowy, tall female dark elf that dances with the drow.

In short, all drow feel Eilistraee, she calls to them, acts like a mother to them, shows and offers them the joy that they have been denied, and helps them in embracing a new life. She actively cares about them: that, and her ideals, are what she has to offer.

>>48825529
>>48825519
So this "embracing", "dancing", and "love....is it platonic?

>>48823738
Eilistraee's teachings about spreading joy are not merely about being a stripper. She teaches that life is meant to be celebrated and enjoyed. Song, dance and beauty are to be spread and nurtured, bringing joy and laughter to people, so that no moment is lost in the greyness of bore and melancholy. It's honestly cool IMO.

Also, dance, joy and those kind of things play a singularly important role in her mission. That's because kindness, and fully, freely embracing the beauty that the world has to offer, are things that most drow have been denied (or corrupted with bitter conflict, present in every aspect of their society), but that can resonate with them. Many unconsciously feel the need to rediscover such joys, are drawn to them, and they are a way to lure the drow to a life that they have forgotten, away from the cruelty of Lolth. For example, there are many Lolthite drow who would rather stop to watch the Eilistraeean ritual of dancing under the moonlight than disrupt it (if they can without repercussions), or who would choose to not report Eilistraeean activity (if they know to get away with it)--this comes directly from her creator, Ed Greenwood.

Besides, male followers of Eilistraee have *always* danced naked, when dedicating their dance to the goddess. Any follower of Eilistraee, cleric or lay worshiper, can find a glade lit by the moon and pray for Eilistraee to notice them, and then disrobe and dance as they sing a deeper prayer, and as the goddess smiles upon them. That's their standard ritual of worship. No matter how much Lisa Smedman tries to say that males don't participate to rituals (the only novels where Eilistraeeans are portrayed as misandric are writtne by Smedman. But then, her novels are full of errors and inconsistencies), that has always been the case.

So, it isn't only the priestesses that do that. And even then, after Eilistraee's return, males and females alike can become priest, so...

>>48825577
I meant embracing as a metaphor, but I guess that drow have 0 taboo when it comes to sex and related stuff.

File: conan-the-barbarian-arnold-schwarzenegger-movie-image.jpg (126KB, 552x800px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 552x800px

>>48823738
>largely because "Naked Sword Guys" didn't appeal to the demographic D&D most heavily geared itself towards back then
I'm not entirely certain on that point

>>48825628
Sold.

>>48825439
A god that primarily supports self-interest can't be a bro god by definition

File: Vhaeraun_and_Selvetarm_Do_Battle.jpg (170KB, 400x820px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 400x820px

>>48825439
Check Eilistraee's brother, Vhaeraun. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Vhaeraun

He too has returned, and is now allied with his sister, so he's a valid choice even in ''present day'' Forgotten Realms.

>>48825596

Yeah the point was that the drow are living in a chaotic evil stabby society only because Lolth wants them to and makes said society possible. Eilistraee is trying to get them out.

I don't know if the surface elf pantheon tries to build bridges with drow commonly. From Corellon's point of view she might be the daughter who ripped her clothes off and ran into the woods because he punished her friends.

>>48825914
Corellon has never ever done anything to help his daughter. Even when she was risking her life, he didn't lift a finger, and only came in to scoop a few worshipers when that mage turned EIlistraee's followers into brown elves, and only accepted them because they had been "undrowified". Now that Eilistraee has returned to life (and that she has drow followers again) remains to see what Corellon will do.

>>48825851
But Vhaerun is evil

>>48825975
Yeah he is. But he doesn't treat his followers like crap, and like his sister, he wants the drow to be united, and even to cooperate with the elves to restore ''golden age'' of the People.

>>48823738
Every fucking novelisation of any setting is utterly terrible without fail. Look at that fucking hack Knaak, he managed to be worse than METZEN.

>>48825970
>Even when she was risking her life, he didn't lift a finger
He's not allowed to by the laws of the elven pantheon. Eilistraee was unwittingly a part of Lolth's plans to overthrow him once, and blaming herself she exiled herself from Arvandor along with Vhaeraun, in the hopes of guiding at least some drow away from Lolth. Corellon can't let her back in unless he also lets Lolth and Vhaeraun back in, and she doesn't want him to do that.

>>48823712

The naked dances are female only, how's a bro supposed to get his bone on? I ain't a c/u/ck, so just watching chicks do it isn't enough.

>>48826903
Idk the Seldarine are chaotic. He doesn't need to let Eilistraee in, he could support her. Also, he could at least encourage his priests to spread voices about Eilistraee, to let the elves know what actually happened during the crown wars (a lot of drow were innocents, and they got first decimated and then cursed on top of that), and know that the drow can change. Instead, elven history is taboo among them, and most elves even have problems with the fact that EIlistraee is there, because she conflicts with their

IMO it would make sense for Corellon to do so. He was both pained and proud when Eilistraee chose to leave Arvandor behind (as she had foreseen that there would have been a time when the drow would need her hope and light, but that time would only come 20k years later), and he was also proud when she proceeded to wander on Toril among the dark elves, trying to be a guidance for them (with Araushnee being gone and turned into a demon) right after her exile. So, it would make sense for him to do something for his daughter (who is trying to fix a mess that he also had a huge part in creating, with the whole "Corellon's Descent" thingy), anything :/

>>48827035
if conflicts with their belief that the drow are to be blamed for every tragedy ever*

Sorry, forgot to add that

>>48826960
They aren't female only. Naked dances are for everyone. There are some rituals (usually more passionate dances, in which the participants have a deeper connection with Eilistraee) that are clergy-only, but since males can also freely be clergy in 5e/1490s DR...

>>48825529

Mary Sue bullshit.

>>48825596

Didn't Ed Greenwood also say their highest pontiff is a daughter of MYSTRA? One of the Seven Silver Suetastic Sisters? Why worship another goddess' ho?

>>48827293
Lol, she simply holds her people dear. That's not the same as being a Mary Sue. In fact, whenever she appears in a story, any story, she and her followers always end with the short end of the stick. If they ever end up winning, their victories are a transitory thing at best, and/or always carry a very high price to pay. In short, she always loses at the end of the day, which kinda sucks desu.

>>48825596

Elaine Cunningham is worse, tbqh. Liriel Baenre has something like four base classes and a PrC and is supposed to be hypercompetent at all of them.

>>48827398
Because Qilué was originally the daughter of a priestess of Eilistraee. Her is rather complicated. By the time her mother (the half-elf soreceress Elué Shundar) was bearing the seventh child, the woman--possessed by Mystra--was almost reduced to a husk by the goddess' power that flowed in her body. Believing his wife to be the victim of an evil spirit, Qilué's father (the human harper Dornal Silverhand) killed her, endangering not only the child's life, but her soul as well, as she would have been completely destroyed by the power of the Lady of Mysteries that was flowing in ther. Looking for another pregnant female strong enough to bear the child to the child, Mystra chose a drow follower of Eilistraee, Iliryztara Veladorn, who was leading a group of like-minded drow to found a community on the surface, near the spot where Dornal killed Elué. Iliryztara's unborn daughter had died during the journey, and that would have eventually led to her death. Since Eilistraee was trying to find a way to save her follower, Mystra offered to replace the dead baby with the soul of the seventh sister, Qilué, to save both. Eilistraee accepted Mystra's offer, and the Dark Sister came to life--and so did the friendship between the Dark Maiden and the Lady of Mysteries (this is from the FRWiki)

Also, in the Realms most people are polytheists and worship a variety of gods, each for a specific reason.

>>48825851

Huh, I had Vhaerun's weapon in Dark Souls 3.

>>48827465
>Her is rather complicated.
Her story*

>>48827417
>which kinda sucks desu
Dunno where that ''desu'' came from. I meant to say "desu".

>>48827482
I meant to say "to be honest"

>>48827459
She's just a Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge, isn't she?

She did pull off some high powered shit in the books about her, like a Gate spell, but that involved personally asking Lolth via direct prayer, who kept one ear open and agreed to Liriel's requests to get her master plan of making drow magic work away from the Underdark going.

>>48826960
>C/u/ck

Describes /u/ perfectly, consider that appellation stolen.

>>48827495
Wordfilters are fun!

>>48827293
don't be a fuck, this isnt a pc its a god.

>>48827498

No, she's explicitly a good Rogue and possibly Fighter according to the novels, and Runecarver is definitely a PrC.

>>48827498

That last part was the dumbest thing ever. Drow Adamantine dissolves in sunlight, not their spells.

>>48827643

I'm judging what she does by the standards of other deities of her same relative level of importance in the same setting she hails from. She's a Sue, bruh.

>>48827673
Their spells stop working as well, or at least their racial magic does. It's why Drizzt has no more levitation, it started to go away once he arrived on the surface.

>fuck you captcha I got all the storefronts

>>48827705

You need a feat or an item for levitation, don't you?

>>48827714
Didn't used to.

>>48827696
All she does that distinguishes her is being close to her people, and choosing to share their fate to be by their side in times of need. She doesn't display any extraordinary power (for a deity, that is) and, as I've said, her few victories are of the pyrrhic kind.

>>48823639
Every TSR edition is good.

Also, I don't know why you put lore in quotes. It's still lore if it sucks. And some D&D settings have good lore, or at least passable.

Dark Sun, the Known World, and Ravenloft, for instance.

>>48827705
Their racial magic didn't work on the surface because it was tied to the faerzress, which is a radiation that can be found only in the FR Underdark. However, their normal (Weave) spells work anywhere.

>>48827696

Then you're grossly misunderstanding the point. "Good things" in Drow pantheon are responsibility of one relatively weak deity while elsewhere they have multiple more powerful gods involved. Hence the vast majority of Drow race is how it is.

>>48827775

Not him, but does Eilistraee work hard every day but is unappreciated despite her moe?

Nigga that's kawaii.

>>48827990
The drow actually appreciate her. After ''feeling'' Eilistraee through the visions/dreams/emotions that she sends to all drow, many secretly yearn for Eilistraee and all that she symbolizes. Even though not many actually take steps to abandon Lolth for her.

And I wouldn't call her moe/kawaii. She is a goddess of beauty, more a bard than a warrior, and prefers peace, true. However, she is also 9ft tall drow huntress, that can become wild and ferocious, which usually happens when her followers are hurt (according to "Demihuman Deities").

>>48827035
>Also, he could at least encourage his priests to spread voices about Eilistraee
He actually can't. The gods can't communicate with their followers anymore, they can only grant them powers. So even if he has forgiven them or wants to reunite them somehow his hands are tied. He's probably busy sorting out the huge wars and other godly returns.

The only way he might be able to communicate that (big MIGHT here) is if he sent a dead elf from hell back to Toril, and even then no one would have any reason to believe the messenger.

>>48828270
They can communicate. They can still send visions, dreams and other messages in that form. But yeah, you have a point when you say that they are unreliable. However, from the recent novels, it appears that some deities can still manifest in some way. Eilistraee herself has appeared along the Sword Coast, and even just outside Waterdeep. Lolth still does whatever she pleases. Mystra talks to her chosen.

>>48823615

Why do people who hate internationalist socialism go for nationalist socialism instead? Why do people who spend their teen years obsessed with teen pop spend their 20s obsessed with indie music? Why do people who turn against militant religion go for militant atheism (or go from militant atheist to militant religious fanatic)?

They're embracing heresy, but it's heresy in a shape that fits their world-view. The idea is that you're only abandoning one or two tenets of your beliefs (even though you feel like you're changing everything) and adopting a rebellion archetype whose role you understand.

The idea that instead of switching from red team to blue team, you might go from red team to plaid, usually is just too much of a leap for a person.

>>48823615
cause she's hawt and not a bitch.

>>48828390
Plaids damn ugly though. I like grey. Can we do gray? Like maybe a tie dye using different shades of grey.

>>48823738
it's true in 5th.

honestly if you're going to be using drow, you might as well get used to the fact that they're magical realm. I mean it's an entire culture based around rape and hatefucking.

>>48828372
>Mystra talks to her chosen.
That's probably a symptom of Chosen being direct agents of their deity. Mystra's Chosen hold parts of her divine essence for her in addition to running errands and shit (which can run the gamut from "teach this person" to "seed this place with magical shit" to "assassinate this fucker who's hoarding magic"), so she needs to talk to them to give instructions a bit more directly than generic dream visions.

I would be surprised if other gods couldn't do the same thing with their Chosen. Hell, that's part of what being a Chosen of a deity is all about, you've got a direct line to your god/goddess. On the other hand, it also makes you the bitch of said god/goddess and paints a huge target on your back.

>>48828372
I think a lot of that is because the authors don't like that gods can't talk, or they think making them talk is going to be special because they now REALLY aren't supposed to.

The only adventure that has a god communicate to the material plane is OotA.

>>48828558
In Ed Greenwood's latest novels, it is said that Eilistraee was seen dancing and speaking to mortals in many places, especially along the Sword Coast. Also she has also appeared under the walls of Waterdeep, and following that many of her followers started to travel there, with the goal of creating a shrine to their goddess within its walls.

>>48828553
Yeah, you have a point there.

>>48828536
>it's true in 5th

In 5th Eilistraee has both male and female clerics. Lolth's clergy still is female-only, tho.

>>48828558
Nvm, misunderstood you. Yeah, those exceptions in novels are probably there because it is ''special'' now.

>>48823615
Pretty much what >>48823670 said, female supremacy has become cultural for the drow and they may not associate it with Lolth but rather just how things are done, worshiping a non female supremacist god may just be too "weird" for most good drow

File: d36575_5466465.jpg (656KB, 1332x3400px) Image search: [Google]

656KB, 1332x3400px

Drow thread? I must post this.

>>48825987
So "I'm evil, but I'm not that evil".
The sort of evil that you don't like, but you let live because killing them all might make you the bad person. Or those alignments that used to have the parenthesis following them, either Lawful Evil (Neutral) or Lawful Neutral (evil).

>>48829541
Yeah he is that kind of evil. The one who has a reasonable goal, maybe not even a selfish goal, but that will do whatever it takes to achieve it. Even if that means eating kittens.

>>48829223
Lol, thanks for sharing

>>48829735
>Yeah he is that kind of evil.
I like that sort of evil.
Kinda reminds me of the human evil god in Iron Kingdoms. It's evil, but can understand and can get people believing and getting behind.

They also had the cancerous wound in the world sort of evil, but that provides a nice contrast.

>>48825241
Damn, yo. That's fucked.

>>48830134
Yes, I like that kind of evil too. That's why I really like both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun.

Maybe those male worshippers just want to become women senpai don't be judgmental.

>>48831188
See? This is why we have to teach them to be better drow than they were brainwashed to be. We could fix this if we all just tried.