What are some potential explanations to why wizard adventurers

Armor is for pussies.

>>48677268
This. Currently have a 5e fighter wizard who has levels of fighter because he's too lazy to take precautionary measures.

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In my own setting, it is cultural. There's nothing in particular stopping a wizard from learning to use armour and casting while wearing it, but most wizards are academics, not warriors, and the few that go on adventures are the outcasts and pariahs of their orders. Mechanically speaking, all it would take for them to cast in armour is a feat.

My game's wizards are based on the Archivist class from Heroes of Horror. All magic is divine, there's no arcane spell failure.

>>48677233
Armor is kinda heavy.
Wizards don't lift.

Because spending money on armor doesn't have as good returns as spending it on more magic shit.

>>48677233
Why not make ASF less contrived? Work it into the setting as a curse of the gods upon the weavers of mysteries or somesuch.

Are you daft?! Do you have any idea of the issues magic and metal have together unless properly accounted for? It's hard enough to not fry yourself, let alone your party members when you're firing arcane energy all over the place. Ever heard of path of least resistance? Put metal armor on and you're it. Sure, you could wear leather armor, and many casters do, but those tend to be dabblers or druids, who don't have access to Arcane protection. Mage Armor, Arcane Shields. Now Those are designed to take into account casting variances, and don't interfere. Now please, would you kindly get back to swinging your sword around and leave the thinking to those who are qualified to do so?

>>48677268
This works for really high fantasy hero, high magic caster style characters. What about a very gritty world where adventuring and intrigue has a very high chance of fatality. Years of learning the occult mysteries of the universe means nothing if you have an unlucky day

>>48677233
metal has mild anti-magic properties, or at least anti-arcane. that's why iron is effective against faeries. maybe it's because metal represents stability and order while magic is a force of change and chaos, or maybe it's just some quirk of nature.

some wizards wear alternate forms of armour (for instance, bone or wood) but most don't bother because it's not very effective. this is a good excuse for mages to walk around in exotic gear that seperates them from mundanes, without necessarily being in robes all the time.

this doesn't apply to divine power and most enchanted weapons and armour are divine in origin.

>>48677422
Then wear a tights. I don't imagine all the folds in your cloth robe are doing you favours either if that's the case

>>48677233
Wizards don't want to invest in the STR to carry/wear that shit.

>>48677233
Pick one:

>Iron fucks with magic
>Wearing gloves disrupts casting, since the spells end up hitting the inside of the glove
>Armor is heavy and wizards are weak
>Armor takes training, which would take away from learning magic
>Wizards have too much student debt to afford armor
>Wizards wear armor, fuck the police

Seems like I read in some edition of D&D that wizards are simply incapable of performing the complex gestures needed to invoke spells while wearing armor. To prepare a spell, the wizard needs to assign a ritual to it, like a series of hand movements. If the wizard doesn't repeat the ritual with precision accuracy, then the spell fizzles out or backfires.

I'm not sure why this would restrict a wizard from wearing any type of armor, though. Quilted or leather armor isn't particularly heavy, and shouldn't necessarily restrict hand dexterity. If I'm not mistaken, 2E or 3E did add percentage-based spell failure for this very reason.

Clerics could cast magic while wearing heavy armor because clerical magic is simply given to the cleric entirely by proxy rather than necessitating complex invocation rituals.

>>48677414
It works better if you go with iron as being the opposite to magic, like in old folklore. So the dude encased in metal and wearing a sword is basically immune to magic, and the dude wearing normal clothes and clutching a wooden staff is able to cast pretty normally as long as the warrior doesn't stand too close.

It even adds cool stuff to the game where you put iron manacles on a wizard and now it doesn't matter what spells he knows, he's harmless until he gets free. Or wrapping an enemy wizard once or twice with iron chains so that he's basically disarmed.

>>48677519

The folds do nothing! Cloth does not conduct magic energy the way metals do.

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Don't need armour when you look like THIS

Seriously, a large part of magic is about comfiness and armour isn't meant to be comfy, it's meant to keep you alive. Magic is a fickle, capricious craft where mistakes can be at best the spell not working or at best killing you. So, you need a certain level of comfort to cast spells correctly. For maximum effect and minimal chance of disaster, the wizard can't have any limitation of ease of movement of focus. That's why robes are so great, roomy, comfy, both breezy and warm when needed, good for travelling or sleeping, they allow wonderful ease of movement, they're light and you can keep all kinds of crap in there you might need.

But hey, if you train in armour and can be perfectly comfortable in it, more power to you.

Although being pic related, bare chested and bursting with arcane dickmight, is the best option.

>>48677233
I always attributed it to the fact that armor is really heavy, you need to train properly to effectively move around in armor, just putting on plate mail isn't gonna make you capable of utilizing it properly, and Wizards spend most of their time book-studying, not studying to wear armor. That's the point of a Warmage in 3.5, or a Magus in Pathfinder. These are classes that specifically train in armor, and speaks volumes for how much one has to train to actually wield armor.

That, and armor is heavy and Wizards don't tend to be very strong.

Arcane Spell Failure Chance is another option of course, which is a pretty blunt option for why they don't wear it. "I don't wear armor because it doesn't let me effectively cast spells and I don't have time to train to do that properly."

>>48677782

Good post

>Armor takes training, which would take away from learning magic

Armour really doesn't take training and I wish fantasy games had never introduced the idea. The most complex part about armour really is keeping it well maintained and knowing how to put it on and take it off again.

>>48678100
There's some amount of training in learning how to move effectively in it, or to use it to its fullest.

>>48678191

Yeah, like an hour. It isn't something that would take a level, a feat, and character resources to use: all you need to learn to use armour effectively is to walk around in armour for a little while and get used to it.

Wizards for the most part practice, study and live in relative comfort. And though this can be said for any singular character, I feel that wizards in general are also used to doing things their way and on their time. To be trained in how to make effective use of heavy armor takes time, considerable effort and most importantly, the ability to be talked down to on a constant basis by an instructor. It's always been my belief that most wizards don't wear armor primarily because it's uncomfortable, and in any non combat situation, more of a hindrance than a help. But in the event an apprentice would want to add wearing full plate armor to their repertoire of useful skills. I've always just assumed that the moment they get fed up with someone calling them a sniveling nancy boy for the umpteenth time, they simply disintegrate their teacher and move on. For anything else there's bogus balancing lore that works in a more mechanical fashion.

>>48677233
Magic attracts enough lighting stikes without adding metal to the equation

>>48677233
The weight is too much for most bitch-ass Wizard-scholars.
Wearing armour is restrictive for the subtle movements needed for spellcasting.
Metal fucks with the formation of spells and channelling of etheric energies.

All of these things can be mitigated through proper practice, but most Wizards would rather spend that time figuring out how to throw better fireballs, and summon aetheric armour which has none of these side effects.

>>48677233
The are not fighters. Like, they aren't trained for combat and are generally incompetent at all things related to it. The fact they can conjure fireballs has purely coincidental combat applications. It was just a science experiment really

>>48678274
There's a difference between being able to run around in armor and be able to do Complex Arcane Gestures™ in it, still.

>>48677233
They're limp-wristed nerds and you need to be in shape to wear armour for relevant stretches of time.

>>48678415
>The weight is too much for most bitch-ass Wizard-scholars.
Even full plate armour weighs less than a US soldier has to carry as normal marching equipment and the weight is distributed over the entire body, so that's a retarded point to make
How come there are still people here who haven't seen the video of the guy in armour doing gymnastics?

Now we only need a guy who says that a samurai will slice a knight apart because the knight is "slower" due to armour, that 2 handed sabres (aka katanas) are not completely retarded and that katanas are somehow faster than not stupidly thick and lighter european swords because of their "form"

>>48677233
Because I am a 106 year old man who can barely walk when I'm carrying a staff and a bag of holding. How am I expected to wear full plate, with magic or something?

>>48677308
>Rockhardbard.jpg

>>48677233
Old men have this odd affinity for bathrobes.

>>48678527
>Even full plate armour weighs less than a US soldier has to carry as normal marching equipment and the weight is distributed over the entire body

you could simply exclude full plate from the setting, given it was a late medieval invention. then the standard form of armour would be chainmail, which is heavier to wear. if you combine this with some fluff about mages being weaker than normal (maybe arcane energy isn't good for your health) then it would make sense for them not to walk around bearing that kind of weight.

>>48678844
Even chainmail isn't that heavy, especially if you're not an idiot and wear a belt for the longer shit to make sure that not all of the weight is on your shoulders/upper body
People massively overrate the weight of swords and armour

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Depends on the setting
I think D&D uses the if you aren't trained in the use of the armor it fucks up the complex somatic components of spells

In my games not D&D it varies depending on level of magical bullshit in the world
High magic/Rule of Cool = Bikini Armor+Magical Forcefields pure wizards don't need armor
Normal games is basically the above D&D excuse unless your trained to cast in armor it's pretty hard to do

>>48677414
ASF is contrived how? Doing complex hand signs is difficult in armor or while using a shield. I don't understand in what way it is contrived.

>>48678948
armor doesn't need to cover your hands

>>48678900

This

Even heavy weapons like mauls and warhammers rarely weighed more than maybe 15-20 lbs.

>>48678900
it doesn't need to be "that" heavy. plenty of unfit people IRL would struggle with any degree of weight for any extended period of time, especially in adventuring conditions. if you made wizards unfit by nature they could easily prefer avoiding anything that might tax their stamina and make it harder to focus on spells.

>>48678900
Isn't chainmail 40lbs in d&d? If I'm a weakass old man and my strength is low. Say 9 or so, I would be halfway to max weight. Tack on a bad of stuff I need and I could hardly walk.

>But your a wizard with high strength and youth.

Wizards are either old men. Or old elves. Any young wizard apprentice isn't a real wizard. Minimum age 50 for a wizard or fuck off you untrained prick.

>>48677233
Magic involves not only a mental, but physical exertion as well. A mage running around in armor will have less energy to cast his spells.

>>48679086
Why the fuck would I want armor that leaves my hands defenseless?

Do you sell a helmet that leaves my vulnerable neck exposed?

Do you know of any plate that has an opening for my heart?

Hey can I get iron pants, but make sure my kneecaps are exposed.

Jesus. Armorless hands, stupid way to get your fingers chopped off.

Damn kids today, I swear

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this guy seemed to do it just fine

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>>48677233
>why wizard adventurers don't wear armour

After putting in grad-school hours to learn magic, they simply don't have time to learn how to use weapons and armor.

Some do, but their casting tends to suffer from time they must take away from magical study.

>>48679368
You mean the guy who only has an iron cuirass on? And normal cloth pants?

That's all he can carry, a piece of a set.

In d&d for example you buy a whole set, not just a piece.

So he is carrying a 30lb chest plate and nothing else because he is already too encumbered by it. To wear the full set.

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>>48677233
Robes are symbolic.

When you change your clothing, you change your state of mind and the minds of others. It is part of crossing over from mundanity, and putting yourself partly into the magical realm. Armor has a mundane purpose, as do most other clothing, and so muddles the significance. But ritual garb is expressly intended for magic, and wearing it marks you as a practitioner, and is linked to spellcasting in your own subconscious.

>>48677233
Iron diffuses magic, they can't wear iron or steel in any large amounts without risking interference.

I think that works.

>>48679425
Basically this right.

Why should I learn to wear armor when I already spent 6 years learning to cast the strongest magic shield known to mortals.

This thread has convinced me there is no good reason for casters to not wear armor. Thanks /tg/

>>48679455
>In d&d for example you buy a whole set, not just a piece.
Breastplate is medium armor

>>48679533
There isn't a reason not to, unless you spent time making a back story. None of which will have a wizard spending precious time learning to wear armor. Also, if a setting penalizes armor and arcane failure. Then there is a second reason not to wear it.

That's it.

>>48679549
Read the book again, Breastplates come with a helmet and greaves.

>>48679278

Dude, D&D was never known for its authenticity.

Metal and gemstones are magically inert and harvested from the corpses of dead primordials. This doesn't mean the can't be enchanted with channels of power carved into them and they're useful for catching and imprisoning spirits like pokeballs but if you stick a wizard inside a tin can of normal armor they lose any ability to restore their power from the environment or expand it out of any place that's covered up.
So either they're wearing armour that's fantastically elaborate set of runes and made of bone or they're some sort of demigod with infinite reserves.

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>>48679475
>putting yourself partly into the magical realm.

Hehehe he said magical realm.

>>48679615
A chainmail habergeon which is basically a chain vest, was anywhere from 20-30 lbs depending what it covered. In d&d you get chain gauntlets with the chain habergeon, the chain gauntlets if they were connected to the habergeon as one piece would add 10-15 lbs to it.

Yes, it would weigh somewhere around 40lbs. Making it pretty damn close for "authenticity"

>>48679367
If you have armor everywhere but your hands, you're more protected than if you don't wear it at all, which is what wizards do now.

>>48677782
>>Wearing gloves disrupts casting, since the spells end up hitting the inside of the glove
I like this idea because it lends to full nake wizards

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>>48679495
>Why should I learn to wear armor when I already spent 6 years learning to cast the strongest magic shield known to mortals.

It's more like "My whole life has been learning magic, I simply have not had time to devote to armor or weapon training". And also that they may not be expected to fight, instead they're supposed to hang around a university playing politics, begging for grant-money, and conducting research.

It's the same reason that most PhDs don't know how to operate rifles or conduct themselves in a combat situation. It's just not part of the job, so why bother. Besides, they're too valuable, had too much education to risk their lives like that. If they need to go someplace dangerous, they can just hire one or more hard-as-nails soldier dudes to serve as guides and shoot at anything that needs to be shot, ideally long before they get there.

>>48679425
Wearing armor doesn't take that long to learn. Neither does the real basics of weapons.

>>48677782
>Wizards have too much student debt to afford armor
Too soon.

>>48679762
See >>48679759

>>48679787
Doesn't apply to adventurers.

>>48677233
Same reason they don't wear pants. Because fuck you, that's why.

>>48679783
Bernie Sanders could have prevented this....luckily i got in for free on minority quota requirements for wood elves!

>>48679750
>Enemy mage is armored like a battle tank.
>His hands are completely unarmored.
>Hmmmm do we aim for the armor, or do we aim for his hands? His weak, old, defenseless busy casting magic hands.

Or

>Be fizzle baba mcwizardguy
>Bought armor from salesman.
>He wasn't selling hand armor.
>Constantly worrying about hand damage when adventuring, can't perform.
>Get fired from adventuring job
>Go home, my loyal familiar leaves me
>Depressed. I go out solo, bandits attack.
>Enemy wizard has magical gauntlets that protect him from harm.
>He spent years learning to craft arcane magic into weightless matter which can protect him from harm
>I spent years learning to wear armor.
>I die, my final words echoing
"ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?"

>>48679838
>Doesn't apply to adventurers

Most people don't structure their upbringing around adventure, but instead are drawn into adventure after acquring skills suited for a particular career path.

>>48679891
>I spent years learning to wear armor.

It takes an hour. One hour. One. You can literally do cartwheels in it. You can dance in armour. It is not hard to wear. Small children have worn armour. IT. IS. NOT. DIFFICULT.

>>48679949
>Drawn into adventure after acquiring skills suited for a particular career path.
Whoops, my cleric joined adventuring and got 30 points into his cooking skill, then opened a restaurant he figured magical skill increases were easier than college. Before he couldn't cook a rock, now he can cook the rock and make rock lobster al a king

He never even needed to learn how. It just popped into his head one day that he was proficient with cooking, anything diplomatic, and knowledge:sex demons.

If this is a setting where warriors have supermuscles and wizards do not, putting on some armor is not going to help some scrawny elderly man survive a gorilla-tier maceblow to the chest.

>>48680028
>Be Fizzle mcwizardguy
>Try to put on armor without knowing how.
>Luckily my familiar bit through the leather straps before I suffocated.
>Try again. With heavy armor.
>Took me 45 minutes to remove armor, I indeed pissed myself before I could remove it.
>Try again
>Maid walked in, thought I wanted kinky sex for some reason
>I burned the leather armor, killed maid, used her for spell reagents.
>Hired new maid to fetch me chainmail.
>Chainmail got caught in my beard of wizardry. Nearly died from bleed out
>Maid managed to stabilize me 3 times before I got untangled.


5 years later.
>Have developed methods to wear armor, padding to insulate, beard guard to prevent tearing
>Maid has become 17th level cleric from constant healings. She is very proud of that.
>Has become eternal servant out of gratitude.
>Can magically wear any armor for some reason, but I just don't know HOW....HOW CAN SHE DO THIS.

Next week I learn her secrets

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>>48680193

This toddler thinks you're funny.

Hi I've worn chainmail in real life and I am a fat weak bitch.

I would not wanna run around waving my arms about while wearing it.

>>48677233

I always figured it was simply tiring for people who aren't used to wearing armor to suddenly put some on and wear it for a day while doing massive cardio trudging around the country side looking for things with a face to stomp.

Also, last I checked, your typical armor doesnt have pockets. I would imagine spell casters want a shit ton of pockets, and having to dig through a few pockets to find a thing you need instead of having like 30 pockets that you've memorized makes spontaneous casting a pain in the ass.

>>48680415

You would also not want to run around waving your arms while enduring multiple stab wounds and lacerations.

>>48680273
That's all that matters, because a cheap laugh is still more than I get from my groups, usually they just throw dice at me and tell me to "stop being a DM"

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>>48677233
in D&D the "arcane spell failure" was a result of the fact that the movements and gestures to cast spells were so intricate and precise that wearing any more than cloth hindered the process.. hence.. Arcane spell failure.. though there are talents and other whatnots to change that I believe.. if not.. make some up.. fireballs and platemail here we come.. though you can just do that with certain items anyway.. woop woop.

>>48680476
Wtf are we in Detroit or something?

>>48677233
They're by and large scrawny nerds who have never had to lift anything heavier than a stack of books, armor is out of the question unless it's enchanted.

>>48680608

Yes. The adventure is set in fantasy Detroit. Good luck, fatty.

>>48680476

One of the joys of being a wizman is no compromises, why the fuck would I ever ever ever be anywhere near stabbing when I can throw fireballs from range and fly and in very VERY dangerous circumstances like against archers I can also cast spells that work twice as effectively as real armor.

you guys know that wizards CAN wear heavy armour in pretty much every version of D&D, right?

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In my personal game and setting? No, Wizards can wear armor of any weight or protection category that they want.

Having heavier armor also means being less sneaky and having a disadvantage to initiative in combat, but I don't go so much for the 'armor = slow' thing, nor does it interfere with spellcasting. Instead I try to guide my player characters to behaviors I would enjoy by using the game mechanics.

Essentially, without going into too much detail, the lightest armor, while having the least protection, has the best chance to roll a maximum effect (smallest die = best chance to roll maximum). Max armor rolled on a dice means you get a block, a useful tool that lets you either absorb that much damage once during the fight OR add that many to a combat save. Wizards, having trash saves in anything but mind and magic will get tripped, shoved, overpowered, disarmed, bled, blinded, and bullied in all manner of ways in a combat scenario, usually resulting in them getting rekt. Therefore, having light armor and having the best chance to get bonuses to your combat saves is better then having moderately better armor but a much reduced chance to avoid these negative effects.

It actually works the same way for Fighters too though; fighters who focus on light armor get a bonus to going first which is great for those berserk types who like to get in and kill everyone before anyone can even attack them, plus blocks help them shore up THEIR weakness against magic and mind affecting saves, which is what mages will primarily be doing in a combat scenario.

Anyone can wear a nice Gambeson though. Love these.

it was an arbitrary rule imposed for balance reasons. backed up by the fact that wizards in old stories, e.g. Merlin tended to be noncombatants

i don't think it would actually be hard to do magic, as depicted in most settings, while wearing armor. and getting moderately good with weapons would only take an hour or two of training per day for a few weeks, which wouldnt detract much from their magic studies that isn't already being lost to miscellaneous adventuring hassles. i think a mage who decides become an adventurer would probably get pretty good at using arms and armor fairly quickly since there would be incentive to do so and no real reason not to besides the monetary cost

>>48680649
Books are heavy as shit, though

>>48680584
It was the result of a game balance requirement

>>48680859
This. My daily workout was lifting my 90lb bookbag and hiking that shit back and forth.

>>48678100
>>48678274

Armor takes an hour of training if you don't want to trip over your own legs in it, but if you want to run full tilt? Do quasi-complex legwork to do things like walk diagonally? Move your limbs with any kind of precision and not overswing from momentum? That takes longer. The momentum thing tires you out quick until you build the muscle for it as well.

To be fair, in most systems you can still use armor if you're not trained in it. You're just clumsy and slow, like in real life. A feat or a class level sounds like the right amount of time investment for an adventurer, unless you had a stupid amount of downtime. Then you're negotiating it with your GM, and he would have to dance around why your party isn't gaining experience or abilities, even at a much slower rate.

What's really retarded is armor giving things like speed or agility penalties to classes that are fully trained in it and then some. Once you've fully adapted to it, the extra weight is just draining in the long term. Short bursts of speed are as easy as normal, and the armor can move and flex better than you can. Worst thing about it are the sausage fingers for fine manipulation, and that's mostly from the gloves, not the metal.

>>48678350
>To be trained in how to make effective use of heavy armor takes time, considerable effort and most importantly, the ability to be talked down to on a constant basis by an instructor.
Incredibly wrong. Armour is not difficult to wear or use.

>>48678100
The one guy that fucking gets it.

>>48678191
No.

>>48677233
You need strength and endurance to wear armor or it's going to slow you down considerably and might actually be impractical for someone with no training.
Mages have little physical conditioning and spend most of their time studying magic, so wearing armor is out of question for them, unless they're some kind of hybrid class to begin with.

>>48678844
>>48679233
Belts mitigate the weight of hauberks. The most discomfort you'd get from wearing chainmail is getting hot and sweaty.

>>48679561
>spending precious time learning to wear armor.
Please stop.

>>48680670
Well that's rude..calling someone fatty because I asked you a question.

Go sit on your sisters dick, you fucking asshole.

>>48681012
You are confusing training to get the defenses of armor (which you don't need in most games) vs. training to be able to sprint, climb, swim, and fight just as effectively in or out of armor (which you do need)
a figher in d&d can swim across a lake in fullplate, which can't even be done in real life, and you think anyone can learn to do that in an hour?

>>48681083
I did stop, learning how to wear armor.

Only cannon fodder and expendables need to wear armor, I am a proud wizard who needs no protection besides what my armored pawns provide.

>>48678274
I am going to have to disagree with this, it takes a lot more to get used to than you would think. Modern day ballistic vests are fairly advanced and they still take some time to get used to.

>>48681132
>a figher in d&d can swim across a lake in fullplate
He'll likely get disadvantage to it, and if you're DM is hard enough you'll sink too. I lost a character that way once

>>48681132
This guy right here.

He gets it.

>>48681199
Because you tried swimming in full plate...willingly or unwillingly?

>>48681307
Was on a docked ship. It sunk.

>>48681422

You got on the beat. Why would you ever get on the fucking boat.

>>48677233
Hmm...
Well, if it's a natural/spiritual energy user of sorts, you could try to explain it by that the natural energy and ki of the world is disrupted by anything that breaks contact with the skin of the user.
Like how a (majority of) plants wont grow without being in soil or water.
A nice little gimmick would be to have nudity increase said user's strength in a
> HAHA, NUDITY MAKES YOU STRONGER ON THIS PLANET, EH?
sort of fashion, just for some chuckles.

>>48677500
Well, in the Witcher, it's because as long as they aren't completely surprised with a knife in the chest your average sorceror or sorceress is going to fucking annihilate anyone who so much as looks at them funny. Even the weaklings can set fire to a group of thugs without issue.

Nilfguard mages tend to wear armour when going into battle as part of the army. Druids don't like the metal. Priests and priestesses rarely are in any situation in which would require any form of combat and it's never anything they can prepare for. Even at the battle of Sodden Hill, the Mages of the North basically spent their time acting as an artillery piece until their position was overwhelmed.

>>48680686
That kinda makes sense in a lot of fantasy novels. Wizards are cool academic people aren't getting close enough to the combat to be stabbed.
In DnD style adventure champagne you wizard spends most of the time in the dungeons being shot at by goblins and what not. That's where you'd really want to have armor and as a bunch of anon's explained already wearing chainmail isn't hard. It's like a combat reporter wear bullet proof vests.

>>48681456
>>48681422
That's why I avoid boats.

Always.

Because they always sink, explode,disappear, or force me to walk a plank.

That is also why I take campaigner, and armored vigilance.

I always have my armor on, and If I can smell water I'm prepping to remove it at all times.

One time the GM made us fight on a big ship, 4 tiers. We were in the lowest and the bad guys broke the hull and water started coming in.

We run, and I start removing armor as I run. A mixture of the feat, Dex rolls, reflex, and I was free.

They laughed at me until I swam out of the sinking ship, we lost the fighter because he sank.

4 minutes later the druid, the rogue and I lived. I was armorless but I fucking survived the deathtrap.

After that I told the GM to stop with the sinking ship bullshit.

I take 2 feats because I always expect him to spring ambushes. Or sinking ships when I sleep.

>>48681456
>Not getting in the boat
Nigga, there are certain times when you MUST get in the boat even for your own reasons. Hell, I've heard defenders voting for rush into a dragon's lair without batting an eyelash, but becoming total pussies when boats are involved.

Game logic isn't character logic. I'd rather get on a boat and risk drowning because I can't swim than risk getting chomped down by legendary magical ass gigant lizard because home turf, experience eating adventurers, suicidal mission etc.

Roleplay and don't be a pussy. Take meassures, have floating devices, take ranks in swimming or rings of buoyancy or sumshit.

Either be prepared or don't, your choice but if you have a clear reason why you should be on that boat, no advantage or shorcut through land (or air, which has its own problems), and no advantage by taking the long route, FFS, BOAT.

>>48677233
Armor's heavy yo. Also expensive.

Have you seen how flash those robes are bro? How much money that nigga got left.

>>48680028
I've never worn armour, but are you talking all armour? Certainly not full-plate (even if that is a given).

I also imagine any mail beyond just a shirt would limit dexterity a bit. I imagine you'd need at least a few hours to get used to that. Though, I'd agree that still wouldn't warrant special training.

>>48681823
>>48681850

Intermediate approach between these two gentlemen. Yes, don't avoid boats and be prepared for bullshit, yes, release your armor, you need to be free if the ship sinks, your life is worth thousands of gold pieces more than the metal you're wearing (plus all the damage you contribute), but call the DM on his bullshit, because having a colossal kraken and a lost aboleth tribe living in a small lake is neither viable nor fun.

>>48680778
I haven't seen any commentary here that would make me believe anyone thinks otherwise.

Being able to do something, and it being a sound idea are two different things. Having your magic potentially fail every time you cast a spell is not worth the AC bonus, especially since you can just cast Mage Armor instead.

Armor is terribly uncomfortable and incredibly unfashionable. What would a mage's colleagues think if he started prancing about in full plate? It's preposterous!

>>48681912


You imagine incorrectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNcKolKQ1F4

Yes, this is how plate armour works. It is actually one of the easiest to move around in.

>>48677233
>Wizards don't wear armor

>Mithril, most games D&D editions.
>Battlemage robes either reinforced with magic or correctly adjusted to the wizard
>The possibility of learning how to use armor
>The need to polymorph at any moment from medium level onwards.

They dedicate their time to study and their money to acquire material components for that sweet sweet ass ring of dominion, plus it's easier to sew a lot of magical runes and symbols into robes.

Would a wizard wear a seatbelt or would that block the magic too?

>>48681927
Everybody knows that Aboleths love lakes, streams, rivers, bathtubs, and major nautical lanes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

>>48681556
>Nudity
I played a "barbarian" sorcerer who believed that. For the sake of PG-ness, we compromised on shirtless, however.

>>48677233
The reason spellcasters don't wear armor is the same reason mafia dons don't wear armor. You really think me so weak I need a metal chest plate to have you put in the ground? You really think me so weak that some shin guards are going to protect you from what I bring to the table? I'm a walking catapult. I can raise the oceans and split the ground. I don't make enemies. I make corpses. I make friends who make corpses. I make friends who make those corpses into slaves for my friends who make corpses. You don't know what I might do. Is this a stick or a wand of delayed blast fireballs? What in the seven heavens, nine hells, and the four elemental planes, makes you think I'm unprotected?

>>48681972
There is a feat to reduce arcane failure called armored caster.

It isn't bad...but let's say you want to wear heavy armor at 45% failure..

You need 13 Dex heavy armor proficiency, and 5 ranks of the feat.

That's 6 feats just to avoid arcane failure.

It isn't worth it honestly. And if you want to wear light armor with a decent AC you would want more dex and it costs less feats....but you are now putting too many points on dex instead of int. Or con, or whatever you want.


Long story short..investment vs usefulness.

>>48682252
I dunno
I'm sure mobsters wear bulletproof vests on occasion.

>>48681995
I remember years ago when the chainmail vs plate argument came up
Chain is annoying to wear, weighs a ton and restricts movement a lot.
Plate is just superior to chain in everyway.

Deadliest warrior joan of arc vs king William

Fun show to watch, the guys they brought in were all amazed that the chain was harder to move in and restricted more than the plate armor.

>>48682353
That show was conceptually retarded and the calculation of who would win a fight based on like 5 different weapons which all need to be used like its an anime is stupid, but I did like watching that show just for seeing them shoot different armors with arrows, or punching a side of beef with a caestus. And of course the best end-video of all time: The Battle of the Taliban and the IRA Over the Used Car Dealership

>>48677932
Once again pointing this out: The wizard is throwing that book.

His arm is doing the follow-through and everything.

>>48682420
Or when they had the big guys cut through cows and shit? That shit was fucking awesome.

I agree some of those fights were stupid as hell. But I mean Jesus the fun part was everything before the last 5 minutes of the show.

When they showed the boxer punching so hard it broke a cow rib.

When they used various knives and axes to cut, crush, break various cow bodies.

That was fun.

Just to clarify, the fake battle shit was dumb. Them testing the weapons on stuff, that was cool.

....I wonder if Netflix has it.

>>48677233

Because when you're shooting bolts of electricity from yours hands, its a bad idea to dress like a lightning rod.

>>48677233
Do you know what it takes to cast "Cat's Grace?" A couple hairs from a cat. "Disintegrate?" a tiny amount of dust. "Comprehend Languages?" A pinch of soot and some minor grains of salt.

That is to say, Magic is an absurdly precise art. An extra syllable here, an under-extended index finger there, can cause the entire spell to be miscast. So after spending 20 years wearing the same damn robe made of 100% cotton (or wool or whatever), do you want to actually try putting your skills to a practical test, or spend the next year or 5 adjusting your magic words and motions and shit to the 20 pounds of iron and leather and shit you happen to be wearing instead of the robes that's identical to the one you learned in?

That's the best I got. Personally I'd wear the mage robes because nothing says "daring and bold" like a velour uniform.

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>>48677233
Armor is uncomfortable and irrelevant.
Yes, you don't really need extra training to wear one. And with some amount of /fit/ (and good armor) you would not even get too tired at the end of the day.
But why would you care? Most of the time you aren't in the thick of battle - that what warriors and summoned creatures for. And when you do - your magic will protect you. Not only can you make yourself a weightless armor, you can make yourself invisible, incorporeal, flying, etc. And chances are - if something able to strike invisible flying ghost, protected by couple of different shields - armor wouldn't save your ass too.

>>48680087
>not even attempting to use rules-constructs to support the lore
>or vice-versa

I'm genuinely sorry you play a roleplaying game with mechanics that are so far divorced from the lore.

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>>48683691
>you will never have a wife that makes you combat effective armor for you to go smite evil with

Michael really a badass, in every sense of the word

>>48679881
Arch-mage Bernie Sanders

>>48677782 >>48679783
https://youtu.be/BGNa3dSaZCA

>>48681199
He's probably at the bottom of the lake. Have you tried looking there?

>>48678933
I'd love for her to explain to me the efficacy of a sword hilt of that length.

>>48677233
Always liked the explanation of the Dark Eye:
Iron ore emits some sort of radiation that fucks with your magic.

>>48677233
In my setting, armour and restrictive clothing makes arcane spellcasting virtually impossible, because it interferes with the delicate movements required (it's not DnD, so there is no Still Spell either). Yes, that means heavy robes aren't very popular either - it's the priests that wear those, to dazzle the plebes.

Most wizards in the setting use wands, anyway, so they can wear armour if they want.

>>48678933
Is it weird that I don't care at all about the armour, but that ridiculous "sword" is what annoys me?

>>48683912
A hot, busty wife who was a member of a crazy cult that he destroyed, and afterwards he redeemed her with love. Presumably also sex on the wedding night.

Should wearing full plate armor then protect you from magic, if it grounds the arcane energies? I think so.

>>48677233

Why the hell wear an armour when you can cast a protective spell over your favourite garment?

I like this "too much metal nullifies magic" thing people have presented this thread. Presumably precious metals don't count, they have their own magic or something. Silver obviously has a lot of helpful properties in mythology, and gold has that purity thing going on. Bronze is probably ok-ish too, the big ones would be iron and steel. Various fantasy metals like mithril and so on might be special and allow magic, or certain types of magic, but the downside is they don't protect from magic either.

How would the protection work, like a chance for a spell used against an iron/steel wearing warrior to just fail or fizzle entirely, or just be reduced?

... In a setting like this, it occurs to me that the strongest military wizards would use earth magic. No using magic on anyone directly, just tipping up the ground under their feet, erecting walls, tearing down fortifications, et cetera. I think I like that idea. I need to remember to use it some time.

>>48677233
Magic clothes that do the job better by being infused with the mage armour spell and being super comfy.

>>48677233

They wear armour

>it's invisible :^)

>>48677233

Magic is a living thing. Inorganic, unnatural materials mess up the flow of arcane energy around your body when you try to gather and weave it together into a spell. What you wear needs to either once have been alive (cloth from animals/plants, furs, wood and bone). Leather is treated a lot so it also causes problems, but they can be compensated for if you don't mind you magic being a bit clumsier and more sluggish. Natural elemental matter (air, water, rocks) doesn't get in the way much either but aside from gems you don't really wear those. Refined metals mess things up, though.

Why the fuck would a wizard care about armor?

>Oh no, I'm missing out on +8 AC because I'm not wearing a full suit of plate
>That 8 AC would surely have saved me from Cloudkill

They tend to be fighting things at such a magnitude that AC is irrelevant.

>>48678527
>the weight is distributed over the entire body
This is actually a bad thing.

>>48685492
This.

Even in the event he needed to be armored, he'd just cast Mage Armor + Shield from a scroll or something and have +8 AC without the weight.

>>48685510
>Carry 10 pounds on arms, 10 on legs, 10 on head, and 20 on chest
>More of a bad thing then 50 pounds on a single part of your body

???

>>48677308
sauce of these comics?

>>48685492
A wizard rarely fights another wizard. The vast majority of things he fights are creatures with pointy bits they like to stick into him

I've never worn a proper full plate armour on me, but I did own a riveted chainmail. It wieghed about 9 kilos and was about as covering as an xxl-size t-shirt. It's easy and fast to put on, but annoying as hell to take off without assistance. I used to wear it somewhat regularly every week and do a lot of stuff like sparring and jogging with it on, so in the end I was pretty used to moving in it, but at the start it did get on your stamina. It doesn't restrict movement per se, but it does make moving more tiresome. I wasn't that fit back then though, so there's that.

I'm sad I decided to sell it when I was tight on money.

>>48677233
>fire dissipates fast without fuel and feeding energy as fuel while fireball flies is too inefficient
>also, fireball flies slowly, compared
>frost magic is extremely inefficient
>lightning is most powerful, versatile and easiest to use combat magic around
>you just ionize the air between you and target and let lightning surge through it
>depending on force applied and aim you can inflict pain, knock out, or just plain incinerate enemies, make them drop their weapons, stop their hearts, fry their brains, etc
>only thing, metal armour messes it up, so it's out of question

>leather armour is better, but you still wear robes
>because robes are interwoven with special patterns of metal thread that absorb the residual static energy your spells leave in the air, and either turn it to defense, accumulate it as a battery, so you can pour it into later spells, or just turn it back into mana and feed to you


also, robes are kickass cool

most metal armour has a nasty habit of catching long hair and beards. especially chainmail. fuck chainmail.

what? you're a wizard with no beard? get the fuck out. seriously.

>>48677233
Because robes are comfy, and wearable both when shitting and sleeping.

Distinguishes a cleric from a wizard.

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>>48686075
>Needing to do either of those.
>Considering yourself a wizard.
Next you'll tell me you need to actually eat.

Also
>>48677233
>Not being a badass armored Wizard.
>mfw you can't see my face.

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>>48677782
What about dressing as a common fighter and not relying entirely on their magic is considered the lowest class bullshit any self respecting caster would never attempt?

Since most wizards are wealthy educated types that come from some kind of noted background and had an education in a prestigious college that they represent everywhere they go then actually putting on so much as a bracer is basically the same as Hollywood elite actually wearing something from Wal-Mart in public. The shame would be too great.

doing that is for uneducated poor people, tht why any good wizard has a few of them around to wear the Wal-Mart crap and stand in front of the Basilisk.

>>48685646

It is on the pic, little grey letters on the bottom.

In my setting science is magic we understand. Most wizards don't bother with adventure. Those that do can wear whatever they want provided they have an effective range of motion to cast any somatic spells.

I thought the situation was, yea wizards can wear armor if they want to. Only none of them start out with the capacity because they never bothered to wear it before.And only a few give a shit enough to give them the capacity.

Armor is easy to wear, I know because it was in a youtube video.

>>48688237
Sure, Plate armor is for the poor uneducated people.

How much does it cost in your universe ?

>>48685576 10 pounds on your arm put 10+ pounds stress on everything between your arms and your legs.
I say 10+ here because leverage is also a factor. The exact leverage depends on the which parts of your body and your posture, but it can and does get stupidly large.

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Anyone else has pics of armored casters?

>>48685576

What >>48693139 said. Ideally you want all of the weight on your hips, although your back and shoulders can take some of it, even if that's not ideal.

Everything else is stressing joints unnecessarily or impeding walking.

Wizards aren't full time adventurers, so they buy other things that are more relevant to their interests.

>>48677233
>Be Wizard
>Wear metal armour
>Cast lightnign spell
>Conducts through my gauntlets
>Be roasty toasty wizzy mosty

>>48684496
Maybe it's just a really complicated wand that's shaped like a sword.

That or it's a spear.

>>48680415
>>48680476
He would not wanna run around waving his arms anyway

>>48679751
>not going into battle completely naked except for painted runes
>not frenzying yourself into a psychic rage
>not screaming and shooting fire in all directions like a force of nature

The only proper way to wizard really.

>>48684496
You see Ivan, when two people swing sword together much force.

>>48677233
Wearing full plate armors actually takes training and martial art training.
The misconception that knights and skilled fighters have no idea of what they're doing and only relay on armor.
Mages and Sorcerers spend their life experiencing magic, they never have a the right physique to wear something like that.

>>48695698
no it fucking doesn't. D&D armor rules, like practically all of their martial rules, are written by lardass cheetofaces who can't jog around their office lot think that's "human standard".

>>48677233
Style and Arcane Armor

Why encumber yourself when with a flick of hand you can summon up a weightless armor set and even better defenses should they be required....

Also, even for standard 3.shit you can grab Still Spell and be a magic war tank (with weaker spells than a cloth cannon)

>>48679086
It's hand and arm motions, so it would need to be sleevless armor.

>>48696384
So breastplate

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Surprised no one has mentioned clothing requirements based in ritual and uniform. A college professor can still do a perfectly serviceable job wearing army fatigues but it is much more customary and helpful to people seeking aid if he wears clothing traditional to his craft.

It could also be related to the inherent ritual of sorcery. Pointy hats a necessary to channel a wizard's connection with leylines, long flowly robes allow chi to flow easily out of the body through the limbs and affect the environment. Maybe under all those robes are fuckloads of charms and tattoos with precise placements that get messed up by the various layers of armor. Hell maybe large quantities of metal act as a ground and cause all magic channeled by the caster to shunt into the ground.

>>48696979
You don't even need to say that armor "disrupts magic" if you just go with the first part: Wizards garb is as much a part of their magical ability as their spellbook might be.

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>>48693745

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>>48685338
i want a series about Michael and Sanya getting into crazy shenanigans the world over

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>>48677233
Armor requires training. Sure, anyone can wear armor, but it takes a strong and durable person to actually run around and fight while wearing it without collapsing to the ground of exaustion and heatstroke.

>>48679368
Was there a story to this guy, beyond being a random highwayman wizard?

>>48677233
It simply isn't needed. When you can break reality over your knee threats like swords and arrows are less threatening.

>>48677233
Using magic is physically draining. Wearing armor - especially heavy armor - is physically draining. The heavier armor you wear, the less energy you have to use magic.

This is why you see so many wizards doing pilates at the gym.

In the traditional academies of the Greater Empire, novices are gifted their first set of robes. Color coded by school and bearing the insignia of their academy.

>Alchemy - Azure
Here shorthand for "all those magics which do deconstruct or fabricate in temporary fashion")

>Vitaelurgy - Russet
Here shorthand for "all those magics which do restore, fabricate, amend, or diminish life directly"

>Artificing - Lavender
Here shorthand for "all those magic which do fabricate, in permanent form, nonliving objects or extranatural quality or imbuing of non-extranatural objects with extranatural properties."

>Somniurgy - Pear
Often referred to as "illusion magic," this school specializes in mastery over light and shadow, and the disruption thereof

>Elementurgy - Salmon
Here shorthand for magics that do not fabricate, destroy, or amend, but rather channel the fundamental forces of the universe. A popular choice for those of flashy tendencies.

These novice robes are inlaid with fae fibers to create channels through which magical energy is magnified.

As a prospect advances, so too does the complexity of their robes in both appearance and construction, until they may include unicorn hair, be inset with drake scales, or even consist entirely of ethereal energy (though one might consider wearing trousers under these as they tend towards transparency).

To catch a master mage naked is to catch a journeyman mage robed.

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I suppose it is technically possible...though I am already in my pajamas

>>48677233
Could your average, modern-day academic perform normally in armor?
What if he was old?

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>>48684459
>>48694169
>>48699443
Underrated.

>>48677308
>>48677782 <-- a few of these are actually really good
>>48677932 <-- also semi-OK
>>48677955
>>48678191
>>48678453
>>48678933 <-- tagged you by mistake, but fucking hell that sword
>>48679425
>>48679495
>>48679759
>>48680193
>>48680945
>>48681057
>>48681156
>>48695698
>>48697919
Wizards assuming armor requires training might be a pretty good reason for wizards not bothering to use armor.

>>48696384
>His wizards don't strike complex yoga postures and shit.

>>48680415
Put belts on over it.

>>48677233

In my settings (and the characters I play), I rationalize it as expertise, and expertise only. Learning magic takes a shitload of time, so plenty of Wizards simply never take the time to learn formal martial stuff--armour included. The "assumes it takes training" and "culturally distasteful" examples come into play, as well, but we play 5e now and the armour feats make armoured casters more plausible anyway.

>>48677233
Casting elemental spells whilst in full iron or steel plate is a terrible idea, so novice invokers Wizards are just too lazy to work around it.
Cold iron is also a magic inhibitor, making way more difficult to cast or maintain a spell.
That's why mithirill is so valued; it's light, grounds lightning, highly resistant to temperature changes, and actually creates a magical 'current' to better cast spells.

>>48677233

They are too weak physically to wear substantial armor for an extended period of time.

>>48701316
Wouldn't that leave them to to weak do any kind of decent adventuring either?

>>48700702
stop post

>>48677233
Arrogance

>>48700702

>>48680415 was meant to be >>48680466

Though for that matter,
>I would not wanna run around waving my arms about while wearing it.
I would not wanna run around waving my arms about in any context if I were fat and weak.

>>48677233
For my setting, Arcane magic is tied directly to the Fae. Natural armors, like leather and such, are generally fine, but those with a fundamental understanding of the Arcane powers also carry some of the weaknesses of the Fae, namely vulnerability to non enchanted metals. So Wizard's and other Arcane casters can't use metal armor because it hurts like fuck to wear.

Armor made out of crystals is common in some mage circles within the setting though. The Emerald Covenant makes their mages wear magic armor. Guess what it's made of...

>>48679759
>It's the same reason that most PhDs don't know how to operate rifles or conduct themselves in a combat situation.

The best swordsman I know has a PhD.

Robes look cool. Why wear armor when you can cast an invisible armor spell on yourself?