Should casters be required to learn their new spells from books,

If you are playing dnd 5th there are optonal rules for level up training.

If that doesnt appeal to you why should only casters do something to unlock their level up?

I like systems where spellcasters have to actually find new spells out in the world when they level up, but I understand that's not for everyone.

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Depends a bit on the caster type. I know that "Depends on..." is a bit of a cop-out answer, but I like having multiple distinct types of magic and am open to the idea that there might be different mechanics for different casters.

That said, it feels more interesting if they have to look for them, and fair since the warriors doesn't spontaneously grow better gear just by leveling up.

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>>48642947
I like this too, because it discourages the metagaming inherent in flipping through the PHB to see which spell works best for your build. The players have to gain new spells by interacting with the world, not by thinking through charop choices. If minmaxing is your groups thing and you're okay with that, then go ahead and let them pick spells like feats, but otherwise, I think it's a better idea to give them spells in-game.

One way I like to do this is by presenting them with a number of standard magic textbooks that they can choose at character creation -- the idea being that these spellbooks are common enough that it's reasonable to expect that it wouldn't be too hard for an entry-level wizard to gain access to one. The books have a number of spells in them, from entry-level stuff to higher-level stuff, usually up to around level 3-4 spells. They can learn the spells in the spellbook they chose as soon as their experience level permits.

Of course, they can look for other spells in the world too -- whole other spellbooks, too. I avoid the idea that a single spellbook teaches a single spell, except for the really high-level earthshattering spells like Wish. A spellbook is a manual or textbook of magic, not a CD-rom containing a program for you to install.

It's a nice worldbuilding exercise for me, too: Who wrote this book? What kinds of spells would they put in the book? How do the spells in the book relate to one another? Are they all from the same school of magic ascending in complexity, or are they a buffet of different magical effects of roughly the same power level?

What would the name be like? What would be the style of the writing be? Dry but informative? Technical and academic? Archaic? Vernacular?

I like to include a diverse, high-level grimoire of thematically-appropriate magic called "Structure and Interpretation of Magic Spells" somewhere in the world as a sort of nerdy easter egg.

>>48642539
If the rest of the group is fine with having to go on constant side-quests to make sure their wizard isn't fucking useless, and the wizard is fine with his entire existence being dependent on "Mother may I?", then sure knock yourself out.

>>48643361
You could just handle it like any equipment need.

>>48643361
>"Hey guys what about this idea"
>"That's a horrible idea; you'll execute it badly"

>>48642539
Yes, I feel they should. That or work to discover spells on their own through research they can do on the side.

It's sort of meant to be a balancing thing but also a fluff thing. Even the strongest wizards might not even know any eighth or ninth level spells and only a few seventh level.

Ones who know eighth and ninth level spells tend to jealously guard the knowledge or it's locked away as some forgotten treasure.

>>48643385
Indeed, I mean you don't let fighters just walk into any town and ask for a sword, do you?

They need to find a good blacksmith to be able to forge them good gear who specializes in making weapons and/or armor.

Or they find it in their quests.

I mean, for example, if I havew the wizard and the party take down a lich, you van bet your ass the lich's spellbook is gonna have some topmagic spells in there or at the very least, some good research that will make it that much easier for the caster.

>>48643361
>Should martials be required to get their weapons from stores or loot after getting a new proficiency, or should the player just be able to pick whatever weapon they want out of the PHB

>If the rest of your group is fine going on constant side-quests to make sure their fighter isn't even more fucking useless, and the wizard is fine with his entire existence being dependent on "Mother may I?", then sure knock yourself out.

>>48643691
Now, I'm a supporter of casters needing to go out of their way a bit or getting new spells as part of their rewards, but I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit:

caster spells are not gear, it's training. Fighters and many martials basically gain new skills instantly as they level. This is generally handwaved by saying "well that's what gaining experience is about. They gain experience and figure out new techniques or tricks" but then one has to ask in some ways "why can't the caster do the same?"

In an RPG system where magic has defined spells, theories, and functions, then, in theory, if you are familiar with the basics of magic, overtime, you could just 'figure out' spells, especially if you've seen them before. Just like how in martial arts, human anatomy and mechanics work in certain ways, and you'll see surprisingly similar techniques from otherwise wildly different styles.

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>>48643796
That depends on how you envision magic. Do you imagine it as a Civilization-style unilineal evolution of innovation, or do imagine it as a complex ruleset which can be used in many different ways, not unlike science and engineering in real life?

Another difference between spells and weapon proficiencies is that no matter how many highly technical fighting styles are out there, magic is actually supposed to be esoteric. In-universe, it's something that you're supposed to study rigorously by reading books.

I suppose if you're going for the more primal innate magic of a Sorcerer, magic is going to be more intuitive, but for the Wizard, it's READ NIGGA READ.


Again, another part of this is about balance. Spells can break the game in half more easily than a fighter's skills.

>>48643313
>a CD-rom containing a program for you to install.
Sudden idea: cybernetics that let you do this for Shadowrun.

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>>48643313
>>48645238

>>48643024
Yeah that sounds fair.

Sorc spells could be the sort of thing you could pull out of your ass, since they're developing their powers rather than learning them.

>>48642925
>If you are playing dnd 5th there are optonal rules for level up training.
What are those like?

>>48642947
>I like systems where spellcasters have to actually find new spells out in the world when they level up, but I understand that's not for everyone.

Well said. I prefer this method as a DM because it gives me the ability to restrict magic without blatant railroading.

>>48643796
In a lot of RPGs (and even some editions of D&D) warriors have to seek training from a higher-level warrior before they can level up.

Do you GM's do this with Clerics, Druids, Sorcerer's, Bards, or Rangers also?

>>48646940
Well then, there's an argument for spellcasters needing to do the same i suppose.

>>48644687
Well you make good points, it's not how I envision magic, really. I'm going by things like DnD and I believe a f3ew other systems where magic system is made of pre-set spells and such.

Actually, how many systems really allow for more freeform magic? I've heard of one but I can't remember it in my semi-addled haze.

>>48647972
>Actually, how many systems really allow for more freeform magic? I've heard of one but I can't remember it in my semi-addled haze.
I think WoD's Mage.

I don't think magic should be ABSOLUTELY freeform; I just think it should be something that people invent and improve upon. People come up with variations of spells, and improvements on spells, and so on.

Some spells might be combinations of two other spells, which can then be used to make even more complex spells.

That's how I imagine magic even in something like D&D where a spell is explicitly described as "a discrete magical effect."