World of warcraft general. Discuss the lore of the warcraft universe

Warcraft has some particularly shitty lore. Really, the only reason you'd ever want to continue with it is if you invested a stupid amount of time into the game, and you're so far into the sunk-cost fallacy that you'll never admit that it's got writing on par with what you'd find on gaia online.

I doubt any of you actually even could use it for running a game, considering how flimsy and impersonal it all is.

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>>48610719
Sigh if only Jaina gave Kael that pussy. That whole shit could have been avoided.

>>48610782
We can try, anon.

We can try. Plunder what we like and burn the rest, isn't that how you we a setting?

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>>48610782
It's a weak attempt at bait, but not the worst I've seen. At least you tried.

If anyone familiar with the fluff for the dk frost artifact. They already reforged frostmourne why do it again? Are they retconning shadowmourne?

>>48610786
> A thousand year old dude trying to bang a teenager

Such pedophile.

>>48613563
Shadowmourne wasn't reforged from Frostmourne.

It used light's vengeance, Arthas's hammer as base.

>>48613614
I see... But this artifact, it actually is the shards of frostmourn?

>>48613729
Some of them, not necessarily all of them.

>>48613729
Yes, it used piece of frostmourne as its base.
Not all of it through.

alright, question from someone who's been out of the loop on Warcraft fluff for ages
Warlords of Draenor basically retconned the First War, right? Like, the Orcs were never corrupted by the Burning Legion and all that? Why was the Warcraft movie focused on the old version of the First War which never happened? Was it ever explained in any capacity?
Best I could figure is they went with muh alternate timelines, but from all of the interaction with the Bronze Dragonflight in the game, there shouldn't be such a thing as alternate timelines. If you went back in time it just made a new timeline, they wouldn't have cared about preserving the correct history and all that shit because from their point of view, nothing would change at all.

>>48614029
It's alternate timelines. They've fucked the lore harder than ever this expansion. Their quote on the matter is "don't worry about it too much XD it's just for fun!"

>>48614029
>Warlords of Draenor basically retconned the First War, right?
No, Warlords was an alternate reality of uncorrupted but warmongering orcs trying to take over the main universe's Azeroth.

In the main universe (read: The one we'll be spending Legion), the first war still happened as normal.

>Why was the Warcraft movie focused on the old version of the First War which never happened?
Actually, the movie was more like an alternate take on the first war. It's not quite how it happened in 'our' timeline, but also close enough in broad strokes to fit perfectly fine. It's important to get potential fans used to 'true in broad strokes, detailed fucked up by a dozen writers' early.

>there shouldn't be such a thing as alternate timelines.
That's handwaved by "fancy magical trinket made based on the mechanics of the Timeless Isle." In other words, it doesn't follow the standard laws of time travel.

It's stupid, we know, but time travel usually requires the superhero maxim: It's about making the story possible, not making the story make sense. Multiple writers, no in house communication, et al. Just replace optic blasts with arcane blasts.

>>48614118
alright cool, thanks for explaining as well as can be hoped.

>>48610719
>World of warcraft general.

>>48614197
Happy to be of service.

>>48613352
>isn't that how you we a setting
I don't know what the hell you just said, but I think I agree with it.

>>48614029
The tl;dr version of WoD is basically that alternate universe in the past Draenor was accessed by Garrosh, but his plan failed and he died like a bitch. The only thing you need to know is that alternate universe Gul'dan, got sent through a portal to our world and is the only thing of any relevance to come out of WoD.

Alternate universe Gul'dan also has a different backstory to the one that we know, so he is basically a completely different person, but can still feel a connection to the one that died.

>>48614907
WoD is hilarious in hindsight

They started to make it, then realized it was a terrible idea mid-way through. Which was perfect, if they had realized it earlier they could have scrapped the expansion and replaced it with a better one, if they realized it later or never realized it, WoD would actually be about warlords of draenor.

But they realized it at the mid point, and thus had a massive swerve in direction right in the middle. And it's amazing

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>>48610719
>World of warcraft general.

>>48615993
That isn't remotely what happened.

They swapped in a bunch of the devs that were working on Titan, because they have to do SOMETHING with the assholes they're paying.

Cue clusterfuck and nobody knew what the fuck to do.

Why is there so little love for the Draenei in the lore? They were a one hit wonder in BC and then got some recognition in WoD, but other than that, they get ignored. Why? They are the most advanced race, magically and technologically; they are the longest lived race; and they are the most original looking race.

>>48616890
You ask why, then explain precisely why

Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3io2Cgbiqg

>>48616890
There's some bits about them colonizing a few areas of the world no one else is currently living at. I think one is around where the Wildhammer dwarves are hanging out.

They also pop up as NPCs in a few other areas scattered across Azeroth.

The gist is usually "Hey, we want to live here. Will it upset anyone if we build a town here?" Because, you know, displaced race that lost their home. Then lost their new home. Then their ship crashed. And they gradually lost a lot of their great technology as they couldn't get their hands on proper materials and a lot of their engineers have died.

I get the feeling that most draenei are either paladins kicking ass or trying to, since they're paladins or they just want to find a quiet corner of Azeroth to never have to deal with crazy shit ever again.

...then the Legion shows up. Here's hoping they don't lose their third home!

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>>48610782
At its core, Warcraft lore is really great, but the problem is their is so much shitty lore that weighs it down.

The solution is, if you're running a tabletop roleplaying game, you get to pick and choose what lore to use and what lore to chuck.

In my opinion, the strongest stuff is the humans vs orcs stuff, and the further you get away from that with stuff like night elves and blood elves and draenei and pandaren and what not, the weaker the lore becomes. That's just my personal preferences, though, and others might really love night elf lore. Again, beauty is you get to pick and choose. It's a lore buffet and if you think the chicken wings are shit you don't have to put them on your plate. Your lore plate.

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>>48616971
Being cute space goats is suffering.

>>48617025
It is my opinion that your opinion is why Warcraft lore is so fucked today

Bitch

>>48617025
>I don't want anything interesting
>I want orcs and humans stabbing each other like every other fantasy setting
I kid, though, feel whatever you want.

>>48617054
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Is there a really good system for Warcraft roleplay, one that emulates WoW on the tabletop?

>>48617025
>In my opinion, the strongest stuff is the humans vs orcs stuff, and the further you get away from that with stuff like night elves and blood elves and draenei and pandaren and what not, the weaker the lore becomes.

Hello Kosak. Surprised to see you on a thread like this.

Seriously though, to each their own. Even if it is people like you that keep the horde vs alliance conflict alive long after it should have by all accounts permanently ended.

>>48617210
I don't see a problem with conflict between the Horde and the Alliance. A strained relationship between them is interesting

Outright war, on the other hand, ruined the setting

>>48617210
I can agree to that: it doesn't make sense that they're still trying to do the Horde vs Alliance conflict, even if that's the stuff I like.

>>48613593
She was banged by the dragon who was even older
And who is older-she or Thrall?

>>48617282
They're around the same age, I think Thrall might be a bit older

>>48610786
got any more pics of the ship that never was?

>>48617034
I wish there was a game solely about the Draenei. Shit would be cash, yo.

>>48617282
Jaina is older than Thrall.

>>48617316
a year younger. thrall and arthas had the same age in the manual.

>>48617375
Jaina should be a couple years older than Thrall, given that Jaina was born before the First War.

>>48617245
I completely agree with that. The two sides being stuck in a cold war neither side wants to turn hot is one of things i like about pre-cata azeroth. Open conflict however should by all accounts have ended with Warcraft 3.

>>48617313
Didn't SC2 have a Protoss campaign? I'm joking.

>>48617245
>Outright war, on the other hand, ruined the setting
>Warcraft was ruined from its very inception
deep

>>48617151
4e?

>>48617490
Is there a 4e Warcraft conversion? I know they did it for 3.5e.

>>48617543
You don't really need one, unless you want to represent the classes 1:1.

>>48617549
I'd kind of like it to play a lot like World of Warcraft rather than D&D but in the Warcraft universe.

>>48617549
>represent the classes 1:1.
Impossible in 4e. Outside of stale meems, it's not actually in any way like WoW. More like FFT.

>>48617151
What is it specifically that you want to emulate?

>>48617443
I was just going off the wc3 manual.

>>48616866
So, basically, Titan was fucking up WoW both while it was developed (because they reasigned people from the WoW team and made it understaffed) AND after it was scrapped (when the people came back and had no idea what they are doing)?

Good job, Blizzard

>>48617543
I've been working on a homebrew one

Still stuck on races though, and I haven't even touched classes yet

Warcraft Trolls are hard to make in 4e

>>48617620
>Impossible in 4e. Outside of stale meems, it's not actually in any way like WoW.

It's the closest to WoW you can get that I know of, short of making a new game lifting mechanics wholesale. It is still closer to FFT, yes.

>>48617605
>I'd kind of like it to play a lot like World of Warcraft rather than D&D but in the Warcraft universe.

What does that even mean?

>>48617620
Well, like the spells and abilities. If I'm playing a Warrior, I want to be able to Charge and Heroic Strike. I'd also like to do at least one version of specializations. Also ability scores should be pretty much the same.

Basically, is there a game that plays pretty much like WoW, except it's a tabletop, rather than a game that's just D&D using the Warcraft setting?

>>48617688
You'd have to make one from scratch for that

>>48617669
Could be worse. They could have done really financially stupid, like can WoW, announce Titan the next day, and then can Titan.

I've seen companies do stupider things. I will never fucking forgive NCSoft...

>>48617677
Sometimes, you have to loosely interpret lore for the sake of game balance. Troll regen, after all...
>I'm regenerating 5 HP and you can't stop me!

>>48617680
It means, when I play something like the Star Wars d20, it doesn't quite feel like Star Wars. It feels like I'm playing d20 with Star Wars in it. But when I play EotE, it feels like I'm playing a Star Wars movie.

>>48617713
Well I was trying to turn the racial powers in WoW into racial encounter powers in 4e

But beserking, well, that's an attack speed increase. Which isn't really a thing in 4e, so it doesn't work.

>>48617688
>If I'm playing a Warrior, I want to be able to Charge and Heroic Strike.
4e powers, closest you can get in a turn based environment.
>I'd also like to do at least one version of specializations.
Do you want to be a two-hander Fighter, a sword-and-board Fighter or a dual wielding Fighter? 4e has you covered.
>Also ability scores should be pretty much the same.
Uh... That requires some mechanical find and replace. Swapping Cleric to have INT as its primary stat is as easy as replacing every instance of WIS with INT. Secondary stats, not quite so much.

Unless you're thinking vanilla, when getting strength AND intellect on pally plate wasn't surprising.

TL;DR: You can kludge a 'close enough' version, depending on how you define 'close enough.' Otherwise >>48617705

>>48617732
Well, when it boils down to it, attacking faster and attacking harder are very comparable, in terms of DPS. Since you're working with fraction of a minute rounds instead of a 1.5s GCD, representing it as a bonus to damage would work to represent it.

>>48617749
But orcs already have an "attack harder" racial encounter power

As in, I just straight copied the 4e half-orc power over for orcs, because it fits really nicely.

Also, which stats trolls get racial bonuses in is also tricky

Unfortunately I am not currently on the computer where I had everything saved, so I can't post what I've done so far here

>>48617725
Right, but in relation to WoW, how does a d20 system not fit?

What mechanics would you need that aren't included, or which mechanics are clashing?

>>48617766
Wanna see my 4e WoW notes? I'll share a few of the races.

>Orc (Half-Orc)
>Remains unchanged from Half-Orc.
Because it works.

>Tauren (Minotaur)
>Remains unchanged from Minotaur.
Really, it was the +2 to Nature that sold it.

>Forsaken (Revenant)
>As Revenant, except that their ability scores are: +2 CHA; +2 CON or STR.

>Troll (Longtooth Shifter)
>As Longtooth Shifter, except that their ability scores are: +2 DEX; +2 STR or WIS.
For the Forsaken and Trolls, I based the bonuses roughly on their starting stats in WoW, but tweaked a little for the different stat spread and the need to accommodate some added variety.

>http://wow.gamepedia.com/Race
I may be more lax about kludging rules than you are.

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>>48610719
>>48610786

I had no idea that Arthas cuckolded Kael. That's awesome.

top tier bants here

>BHC

>>48617838
Nah, it's better than that: Kael wanted to hook up, but never even got close.

Jaina gives all the guys the cold shoulder.

>>48617740
Well, I'd also like similar mechanics. Like a Warrior has rage, Rogue action, casters mana, that sort of thing.

>>48617809
Mine was a bit different for some of those

My orcs had +2 STR; +2 CON or CHA as their racial bonuses

My Tauren had the earthsoul genasi racial power instead of goring charge, because it's basically war stomp.

My forsaken had to choose either elf or human as their past soul option, and had +2 CON; +2 INT or CHA as their racial bonuses

>>48617851

Not Arthas, They definitely hooked up. They talked about getting married and having kids. Arthas ending up calling it off though because he felt like he was too young to manage fathering a family, the silver hand, and learning to be a king.

>>orcs in game
>>hunched over, strong looking but not glamorized

>>orcs in cutscenes
>>tall and jacked like a bodybuilder

why tho

>>48617838
>WC3 Arthas
>literally the best bants of any video game character that isn't 100% comic relief

>WoW Arthas
>haha you lied to that guy and it was funny so i kill him instead of u kthxbai
Saronite: not even once

>>48617838
It's like you've never even read Arthas: The Rise of the Lich King.

>>48617910

Is it decent? The only warcraft book I've read was day of the dragon and that was like 15 years ago.

if it has : bants and KT bromance im in.

>>48617873
Yes. That book was full of shit

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What would Sylvanas done to Arthas if KT didn't show up? Being serious here.

>you know i already checked rule 34 though

>>48617891
The movie is the fucking worst in this regard.
Do they not fucking realize human proportions in warcraft are weird?

>>48618010
Left him with an itch he could never scratch.

>>48618014
I thought that was weird too. Everything is stylized and cartoony like Warcraft except the humans, so you get things like Lothar's hands not even able to grip an orc's fingers.

>>48617771
The way magic works in DnD is very different from how it works in Warcraft, for one.

In DnD, you're limited by the amount of spell slots of certain level, and by what spells you prepared for those slots. So if you prepared fireball 3 times you can cast it 3 times, and you can't choose to cast a different spell with that slot unless you rest and re-prepare spells.
In Warcraft, casters are instead limited by their manapool. A mage can keep casting fireball until running out of mana, and if the target is immune to fire damage they can instead just cast frostbolt or something.

>>48618070
4e is different (although, still not mana): casters have both daily spells and spells that recharge after a short rest (~5 mins) as well as at-will spells that can be spammed as much as they want.

Is mana a thing in WoW? I mean, I know it's a "thing" but do you actually have to pay attention to it? I was under the impression cooldown management is more important.

>>48618137
Conversion to mana system is actually easy: encounter spells cost 1 mana, you have mana equal to the number of encounter spells you have, daily spells cost 2 mana.

>>48618150
Not that simple, as you either get daily powers that refresh on a short rest or spammable daily powers.

There's a reason psionic classes (beside Monk) in only use power points for encounter powers and still have dailies as a separate mechanic.

Though daily powers could be the REALLY long cooldown spells, like Bloodlust.

>>48618233
Yeah, the tradeoff here is that while you do get to reuse dailies, in the combats you do you get less "big" spells total.

I think it's relatively balanced, especially since few dailies are 2x as strong as an encounter.

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>>48616852
/thread

>>48618249
Of course few dailies do 2X as much as an encounter

If they did, they'd be bullshit OP. It's not how strong they are that matters, it's how many actions it takes to do them.

Action economy is everything in 4e

>>48618631
Yeah, and you pay for the better result/action with having less powerful actions in total.

Like, sure, if the combat only lasts 2 rounds, then spending your 4 mana on 2 dailies seems worth it, but 4 encounter powers, or 2 encounter + 1 daily probably would have worked out better for most other combats.

>>48618010
Torture + kill Arthas.

Followed by hot banshee on banshee sex

>>48618665
My point is that 1 daily costing the same as 2 encounters is not a fair trade

1 daily costing 3 encounters is probably closer, depending on the dailies and encounter powers in question, of course.

As a general rule though, I'd try to avoid using a modified 4e power system for Warcraft, it's better than 3.5 or 5e for sure, but it still doesn't match up with spellcasters, let alone warriors or rogues with their crazy resources

>>48618816
>but it still doesn't match up with spellcasters, let alone warriors or rogues with their crazy resources

Then again, tracking those is kinda shit in a tabletop anyway (unless you massively simplify them, at which point you could modify 4e to do it imo).

finally a thread without any horde wank

fucking disgusting people

fans of the horde should be banned from these threads (and the game)

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Reminder that the Horde is the most interesting faction.

>>48618883
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U71Rvr5ZNQ

Doctors recommended Horde players to reduce their sodium intake.

>>48618883

Then who would the Alliance fight?

>>48618919

gtfo of these threads, you piece of shit. horde fans are the cancer ruining these threads and the game/lore/setting in general.

you are a dumb, worthless idiot

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Yaay, more faction warfare.

>>48618943

it's not warfare you faggot

stop pretending to be neutral when you're really just a horde sympathizer

gtfo of these threads and stop shitting up warcraft with your awful faction

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WE


WUZ


KANGZ

>>48617680
>It's the closest to WoW you can get that I know of, short of making a new game lifting mechanics wholesale.
As long as your criteria of 'like WoW' are 'actually works' and 'mechanics were actually thought out and not written on a hunch'
And I'm not certain the latter applies to WoW

>>48618617
you're a bit late

>All this false flagging

SIMPLY EPIC!

>>48617740
>Do you want to be a two-hander Fighter, a sword-and-board Fighter or a dual wielding Fighter?
Did you just fail to mention grab-an-enemy-by-the-face-and-drag-him-all-over-the-combat-map Fighter?!

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>>48618964
>>48618935
>>48618883

>>48619098
Those don't really exist in WoW tho, do they?

>>48617713
>Troll regen
Shifters have regen as their racial power, I believe

>>48619067

>retarded horde fanboy trying to discredit me with claims of "false flag"

fuck off idiot

>>48619119

so long as you gtfo

>>48619127
They don't and the game's poorer for that

>>48617910
>wanting to read trash
>>48618010
>>you know i already checked rule 34 though
you find anything?

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Can anyone recommend some WoW books with good paladin lore in it? I wana use lore to type me up for legion.

>>48619170
nothing worth mentioning, i was hoping for stuff similar to maiev keeping illidan locked in her dungeon.

>>48619191
I'm going to assume you've read Of Blood and Honor?

>>48614029
To clarify a bit on what >>48614118 said about the movie timeline, somebody, Metzen I think, said to think of it as their version of Marvel's Ultimate universe. It has most of the same characters, but someof the specifics get changed around to tell a slightly different story.

>>48617543
There's that 5e homebrew that's been posted a few times. I don't know how solid it is though.

>>48619098
See >>48619127
Two-hander for Arms, sword and board for Prot. You can't do Titan's Grip in 4e, but you can still do Fury pretty well in a couple of ways. Either whatever its called that loves dual wielding off-hand weapons, or go with +1 to hit with one-handers and multi-class into Ranger.

>>48619143
Yeah, but shifters have pretty low tier regen. My point is that sometimes you have to have mechanics diverge from fluff for the sake of keeping the game balanced.

>>48618919
Man, I know the scales fucked because it's a video game, but that map is looking weirder every expansion.

>>48619499
>posted a few times.
Huh, I've never seen it, and I usually have lore threads open at all times. Maybe that was the week I spent adjusting all my macros, deciding on efficient action bar layouts and getting used to the major spec overhauls in the pre-patch.

RIP gladiator stance and fistweaving, you'll always be in my heart.

Hello minion swarm demonology and shadow magic sub rogue. Also nice that arcane mage and resto druid didn't get shafted.

>>48619668
fist weaving sounds like an oxymoron.

>>48617771
>What mechanics would you need that aren't included, or which mechanics are clashing?

Just take the Warrior for example. Two major things.

1) No rage
2) No stances

Those are two things that DEFINE Warriors in WoW.

Then you've got minor stuff, like not having a charge ability that only works if you're out of combat. Or no hamstring. No execute. No shouts.

Then you have Paladins. No Auras. No Seals. No Blessings. No Mana. Again, these are defining features of WoW Paladins.

So yeah, maybe now you get what I mean by "D&D but with WoW lore" because that's what happens, you wind up playing D&D fighters and paladins instead of WoW warriors and paladins.

>>48619697
>stances
stance dancing hasn't been a thing in forever.

>>48619599
What's low tier about it? 2 HP per tier isn't bad for 4e, considering how slowly you get HP as you level. Them healing only until bloodied also makes sense because that's the point where you get actual wounds

>>48619668
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaqqtXQG-fT-C5_yajhLbUabdpN5XPn7hmV-MXAGz78/edit#

Seeing as you haven't seen it, I can supply it.

>>48619697
No class in any D&D has mana or rage meters. Maybe something in second WoW book for 3.5 but even then
>3.5

>>48619694
The term itself or the play style?

Healing via punching shit as an off-healer was great. But now they're a traditional healer, while Disc priests are the heal via damage healers. In a manner that I like in theory, hate in practice.

Don't want to go too /v/ because I hate /v/ but shadowmend just feels so WRONG. If I'm a healer, why am I putting a DoT on an ally? I know it's a big initial heal, but it still feels so... unnatural.

From an in character perspective, it just doesn't feel right. And from an MMO healer perspective, it doesn't feel right. And yet, there it is. 'Doesn't fit the character' is also why my shaman swapped from enhancement to elemental. Does that make me weird? That I actually value character thematic in an MMO?

>>48619719
Encounter power, only usable while bloodied, can't heal you past half max health.

I'm not saying it's bad. I meant low tier that it's mild or understated, not weak. I mean, compare it to the lore of trolls coming back from death unless you burn the corpses, it's a whole different league.

>>48619777
Not at all. It's why I'm sticking to enhancement, even though it cost me totems. I much prefer the 'in your face' aspect of enhancement and the new buff stuff fits the old warcraft 3 unit in an interesting way.

>>48619639
Kalimdor and the eastern kingdoms are way too small. The Broken isles are way, way too big

>>48619712
Yep, and yet stances still exist.

>>48619697
>2) No stances
Those are a thing for Slayers

>>48618919
Not even fatigue inducing waters between Northrend and Broken isles. HOW the fuck have we never found this place?

>>48620293
We have, it's just been irrelevant and removed from conflict.

Also, you got stuff wrong, the lighter blue does not equal "shallow" non-fatiguing water.

>>48620293
Just one more reason why Gul Dan is best orc.

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Thoughts? Not my creation

>>48620446
>Kul Tiras

That's a long fucking distance for an island to shift.

>>48620575
getting pulled through Vash'jir and then flung south to the farthest reaches of nowhere must have been fun

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>>48620575
The cataclysm has accomplished a lot of things.

>>48620575
>>48620683
I'm surprised they haven't just said Kul Tiras sunk during the Cataclysm, seeing how they don't seem to be ever going to add it in the game.

>>48620947
Blizzard just hates islands, it's nothing personal

>>48619777
i swapped from enhancement to elemental too once the prepatch hit. desu it's mostly because i missed my elementals, also because the whole playstyle changed. thirdly because i fucking hate thrall and don't wanna have his shitty handmedown hammer.

>>48620293
tyrande came from suramar, we know it existed we just didn't care.

>>48621070
Maiev, Tyrande and Malfurion visited Broken Isles in TFT. They found ruins of Suramar and many small scattered islands, not huge continent and whole intact city.

>>48621026
If i might play devil's advocate. Islands are really hard to work into the theme of most expansions. Cata was pretty much the last chance they got to logically include them. And i doubt anybody but the people posting on this thread are really that interested in a south sea expansion.

>>48621041
I used to play a enchantment shaman. Then i switched to restoration because i wanted a horde healer.

I did quite like Enchantment in the past, how exactly did they change/ruin it?

Sigh. Remember when Thrall was actually a beloved and popular character?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUfOIvlC6Eo

new harbingers vid.

>>48621482
>Remember when Thrall was actually a beloved and popular character?
... no?

>>48621509
>now... you ARE prepared
based Illidank

>>48621482
they removed our elemental totems, and all of our totems actually, as well as adding maelstrom which is odd to get used to when you've pretty much just been smacking things with no regards for resources up until now. it works well on elemental though because they have like four maelstrom building abilities and four maelstrom using abilities

>>48621634
Feels weird how hard earth shock hits when it still has basically no animation

Most big hard hitting resource-consuming spells have a big impressive visual aspect. Not so for elemental shamans

>>48621649
>DK main since Wrath
>when Legion comes out, Blizzard nerfs the death knight GCD so we have to actually watch our new animations play out now
th-thanks

>>48621602
Were you actually in the fandom before Cata? I was, and i remember Thrall being pretty popular as far as Warcraft characters go.

>>48621634
Alright, so enchantment shaman's are now basically just warriors with more self heal?

>>48621730
Played warcraft three and vanilla mate.

Thrall was still shit.

Threadly reminder that we will never ever have playable high elves.

>>48621751
I would say, more like retribution paladins. Both are melee fighters that use abilities that deal spell damage, and have a resource system (holy power/maelstrom) they have to manage.

>>48621846
this matters why?

>>48619697
>Just take the Warrior for example. Two major things.
>1) No rage
>2) No stances

Just looking at the fighter, Battlerager has a rage, and weapon master's strike is essentially stance switching (not to mention the fighter has access to a bunch of stance powers anyway). There's a lot of other of ways you can get rage-like abilities and stances on one character at the same time (Berserker comes prepacked with it even).

>Then you have Paladins. No Auras. No Seals. No Blessings.

Hybrid paladin | barbarian or cleric | barbarian, as barbarian rages in 4e are actually quite a lot like Seals, and the cleric/paladin side can support you with auras and blessings.

> No Mana. Again, these are defining features of WoW Paladins.

Mana management in tabletop games (especially WoW style quickly shifting type) fucking suuuuuuucks.

In general you are really fixated on getting exactly the same gameply as WoW, and you are quick to discard anything that isn't spoon fed to you. You'll not find what you are looking for unless you do it yourself, and if you do, it'll be most liyely be either a horrible fucking mess (or not live up to the criterias you set now) because mechanics that work in vidya often translate horribly to tabletop.

>>48619808
Not WARCRAFT trolls tho. Most of them seem content to stay pretty dead... most.

>>48621509

>le not prepared meymey
>nothing of actual substance

into the trash

>>48621509
I wish I was 12 again to understand how "cool" that was... Too bad I've grown up

>>48622367
>tfw you realize you're no longer the target audience

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>>48621509
Noice. Didn't have much to do with Illybilly though. Seems more like a DH introduction.

>>48622385
Reminds me of that moment when I realised my D&D character with randomly rolled starting age is younger than me.

>>48622385
I doubt the target audience of wow is 12 years old.

>>48621771
Well. To each their own. There's no accounting for poor taste after all.

>>48622681
Sure feels that way sometimes. Such as in the recent threads here with the faction warriors...

>>48621918
That still sounds kind of intrestring. Even if i do miss the old enchantment shamans.

I'm kind of disappointed with the new restoration shamans. I really miss my shields.

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>Demon Hunter
>ok.jpg
>Races: Night Elf, belf

>>48622737
Faction warriors always brings out the worst people in any warcraft thread. I really like this thread, but every time the horde vs alliance argument starts i just roll my eyes and go do something else for a few hours.

>>48622781
there's no valid lore reason for there to be night elf Illidari. You should be forced to play a belf to play DH

>>48622781
It's not as if they're going to dig the old RPG lore about human demon hunters out of the archives, and we conveniently saw both nelf and belf DHs back in TBC.

>>48622737
Faction warriors always brings out the worst parts of the warcraft fandom. I quite like this thread, but every time the horde and the alliance arguments start i roll my eyes and go do something else until the fire stops burning.

>>48622737

Did you browse these threads before? Warcraft generals were pretty frequent for a while and then they died off for like a month or two and have just recently started back up again.

In the last thread we had some Alliance guy going crazy saying Horde fans were all bad people and shit, but that's pretty tame compared to the old threads. I think it's the same guy as last thread, but there was an Alliance dude who would continually argue with people and call them "worthless pieces of shit" when they proved him wrong and would continue to fling shit for several threads in a row.

It was really fucking bad and now it seems that it's starting to flare up again. The hyper-faction allegiance shit is honestly the worst things about these threads.

>>48622834
>>48622782
Woops. Double post. Danm you bad internet. DANM YOU!

>>48622841
>The hyper-faction allegiance shit is honestly the worst things about these threads.
PvP was a mistake


also, both factions are shit. Praise the Old Gods

>>48622841
The old threads had a hell of a lot of Arthas did nothing wrong/Garithos was right posters, too. Not quite faction war, but still really divisive flame-bait.

>>48622874
Cho'Gall pls

>>48622834

as much as it pains me to say this and i hate to sound like i'm horde-biased or anything (because fuck the horde seriously) but ive honestly never seen anything half as bad from the horde posters in these threads as i have from the alliance ones

its easy to blame "faction warriors" but the real troublemakers tend to be very abrasive alliance fans

I find the lore of the titans and how the Burning Legion to be incredibly badass, especially the dynamic that the ones serving the Big Evil are also the ones that corrupted him to being so evil.

It's a very interesting power dynamic that should come up more often.

>>48622897
>there are still people ITT who haven't embraced Twilight
lmaoing at your organic life rn

>>48622812
There were some nelf demonhunters in TBC. There's that one guy who is part of a questline in Nagrand, who used to be with the Illidari but broke off from them, and that one boss in Serpenshrine (although I'm not quite sure what the thing with him is, seeing as he seems to be held captive by the broken).

Technically there was only one proper belf demonhunter (who you kill during a questline in Shadowmoon Valley) in TBC, but there were lots of demonhunter aspirants that the guy was training, all of whom were blood elves.

>>48622887
they are objectively right though.

>>48622700
>There's no accounting for poor taste
Amen to that.

I hear some folk even like Green Jesus.

>>48622887

Man, you can say that again.

I legitimately cannot stand "Arthas dindu nuffin" or "Garithos was right" shit. I've got my suspicions that those posts tend to come from HFY/WH40K/deus vult posters. Not that there's really anything wrong with HFY, WH40K, or "deus vult" shit. It's just that here on /tg/ we have an extremely annoying group of posters who need to constantly wank over humans in any setting they're in because they think humans are either the only "white people" race in the setting or because they're one of those people who thinks non-human races are boring.

>>48622954
In WC3, he was more like Green Moses.

>>48621509
Only like 3 cringey moments. That's actually quite good.

>>48623000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WKN0XF8-3Q

>>48622933
>being the Darkbad's buttboi
Really? Really.
Come on, you and I both know that Sargeras did literally nothing wrong, and the Burning Legion is the only moral faction.

>>48622996
I think garithos did no wrong because kael allied with the naga twice, a hostile force that had attacked alliance forces before (see the captive paladin in the penultimate Nelf mission), and he had ordered his forces to leave kael after he had taken the city and secured it. you need a much smaller garrison to defend a city than to take it.

>>48622396
pretty much was, we already know our illidan's story. gul'dans thing was for the alternate timeline and khadgar's thing was cause we didn't know what he was doing right now, but this illidan is from our time and he's already had a book about what he's been doing, so they went with the DH's he's been training

>>48622737
That's just a troll and people taking his bait. Pretty sure it's the same faggot that harasses the AoS and WHFB General's. Has the same methods.

>>48622929
>especially the dynamic that the ones serving the Big Evil are also the ones that corrupted him to being so evil.
They ended up retconning that part, though. Sargeras has had three different versions of his backstory, that while similar, aren't quite the same.

>Original: He was so disturbed by the evil of the Eredar and the Nazhrezim that he decided there must be something seriously wrong with the universe for such evil to exist, and it should be destroyed and rebuild from ground up.
>Post TBC (after they retconned Eredar to having been corrupted by the already evil Sargeras): He spent so long fighting various demons and other evil beings that the universe must be flawd for so much evil to exist, and it should be destroyed and rebuild without said flaws.
>Current (from the Chronicle book): He realised that there was some flaw in the universe that could let the Void Lords (pure embodiment of the Void/nothingess) to enter the universe and erase all things, and the only way to fix it is the destroy the universe and rebuild it without the flaw. Also, planets housing nascent Titan worldsouls (like Azeroth) must be destroyed because the risk of one getting corrupted by the Void Lords is too great.

>>48622812
well the nelf illidari were mostly nelves who illidan met on his romps through kalimdor murdering demons, generally people who's families were murdered by said demons, they all wanted vengeance so they found him and he was pretty much "hey you had the strength to get to another planet on hatred alone i'm sure you got the strength to fight demons" whereas the belf demon hunter were legit just people kael'thas sent to keep an eye on the process and be useful to illidan. there isn't as many belves canonically because the belves didn't have anything to hold onto during the transformation process, so a lot of them just died or went insane, and even the ones that did survive either went on a murdering spree and had to be put down or killed themselves in the weeks afterwards.

>>48622887
Are you sure those are supposed to be taken seriously and aren't just standard 4chan memelords?

>>48622996
Arthas didn't do anything wrong, really. Purging Stratholme was the correct decision, and if both Arthas and Uther didn't suck at communicating, Uther could have been brought on board.
"Hey Uther, you might be my superior but as your future King I order you to sit here and help fail at healing these completely incurable people, then put them down after they turn."

Garithos was an enjoyable character, but a fool who let his own biases cloud his judgement, and treated the nonhumans in his army as disposable tools.

>>48623103
so it's sort of gone from warlocks being the most evil class to shadow priests.

>>48623103
>They ended up retconning that part, though

FUCK YOU BLIZZARD GOD FUCKING DAMMIT WHY DO YOU FUCK UP EVERYTHING COOL AND UNIQUE ABOUT YOUR SETTING??

>because the risk of one getting corrupted by the Void Lords is too great

Fucking great he even has an edgelord "it's harsh but it must be done!" motivation. Fucking great.

>>48619972
Not with 7.0.

Stances are offically dead.

>>48623114
I mean if we had been playing Garithos' campaign, and needed vital reinforcements to avoid losing vital supply lines to the scourge and had to pull back some troops from Dalaran to keep them safe...

... only to later discover that the elves were working with a faction of violent underwater demons who were in the habit of kidnapping and devouring the last few survivors of the Order of the Silver Hand...

We would be totally on board with calling the elves traitors to the alliance.

>>48623152
I hope they find a way to play that up in future.

>>48622919
I can't really comment on that. Since i am personally pretty horde biased. Even if i am aware that they've been written into the ground ever since cata.

>>48622996
I don't think Arthas really did any one thing particularly wrong. That's what makes his character arc so good: his fall happens in a pretty believeable manner (unlike a lot of the later "touched/looked at/licked a fel-powered artefact and got lolcorrupted" ones).
He knows the people in Stratholme are infected with the plague, so he concludes that it's better to kill them now before they die of the plague and rise as more zombies.
He head to Northrend to pursue the demon he believes responsible and stop him at any cost, destroying his ships so that his men have to follow him.
He seeks and takes up Frostmourne, believing the sword will grant him the power he needs to defeat Mal'ganis and save his kingdom.

All of those actions made perfect sens at the time, but each of them led Arthas closer to his fate as the Lich King's pawn.

>>48623166
RIP in Peace gladiator stance
I still want a sword and board DPS spec for warriors and paladins.

>>48622781
Draenei and orc demon huntards would make the next logical step.

Bet they cave in for the PvP crowd and give it to humans so the PvP population can move from 92% human to 94%. Or the Kosak decides elves can't have anything unique or be better at something, gotta make those elves look weak and ineffectual.

>>48617910
That book is fucking terrible.

>>48617934
It has none, which is one of my bigger issues with it. Additionally, why hasn't KT just gotten his own book yet?

So, hoe the heck is the Horde-Alliance war still a thing? I mean, they've had something along the lines of three demon invasions, the Cataclysm where dragons started fucking everything up... you'd think at some point they'd say "okay, let's wait to kill each other until AFTER we've made sure the world doesn't end in a fiery tide of hellspawn."
I get that there'd be tension and friction- that's great, that's interesting!- but to still have outright warfare going on when they've clearly got bigger problems?

>>48622919
>abrasive alliance

That's funny, but it's true. The alliance lore has been a last minute letdown by writers who can't write for a faction that they don't care for since cataclysm when the D team took over. Mists made this wrose by most of the writing they got was an attempt to consolidate the Alliance into one nation under a blue human warchief.

They have every right to be upset, and I'm saying this as an old school hordie.

>>48623356

BECAUSE FUCK BLIZZARD

WHY THE FUCK ARE NIGHT ELVES ON ALLIANCE?

>>48623385
Because if they weren't people would complain

Have you seen how angry people are about high elves? It's ridiculous.

>>48623385
because the orcs are inherently untrustworthy?

>>48623385
Mostly because they hate Orcs more than they hate humans, I guess. Grom did sort of kill a lot of their big, important druids in WC3, after all.

>>48623356
because PvPers are the whiniest subgroup of WoW players, so there always needs to be an excuse to fight over inane bullshit while the planet literally crumbles around us

>>48623414
>>48623426
They shouldn't have joined either faction.
Doing so was the beginning of the end for night elves ever having or doing anything cool, Illidan and Maiev being the lone exceptions

>>48623408
High elves were in the alliance since WC2. They are core alliance as it gets, on par with dorfs and gnomes. Then suddenly garithos was so fucking evil that the elves join the horde that nearly destroyed quel'thalas.

>>48623459
they did pretty cool stuff in trying to heal the world post TFT. They were a cool mysterious race that was coming out of their isolation and their homeland was still a legendary place of night and trees.

>>48623263
>Draenei
>Ever using feel magic

Humans would be more fitting. Hell, in the earlier lore it was even mentioned that there were some human Demon Hunters.

>>48623459
Fuck off, horde baby. Night Elves just joined the faction that had was going to help them stand up to the aggressive savages who were fucking up their forest.
>>48623462
High Elves only joined the Alliance then because the trolls joined the Horde. And as soon as the Second War was done, they fucked off back to Quel'Thalas and hung a "Go Away" sign on the door. They're not very sociable, even to their old allies is what I'm trying to say.

>>48623462
That's not why they joined the Horde

They joined the Horde because they desperately needed allies and the Alliance said no.

And the Alliance were perfectly reasonable in saying no. It seemed pretty obvious to them that the elves were demon-addled, not to mention that the Draenei, who they were playing nice with at the time, brought reports of being assaultedby demonic elves in Outland

>>48623459
I agree with you from a lore perspective.

But, players would really, really want to play as night elves. You can't just have one of the major players of Warcraft 3 just not playable

Same reason why forsaken joined the Horde, it makes very little sense, but people would complain if they couldn't play as an undead

>>48623494
the alliance never said no. they even sent an ambassador from ironforge that the player kills because he is interested in the arcane sanctum.

>>48623489
yet dalaran was still a thing, and a lot of high elves went with jaina to defend the world tree.

>>48623515
The lore was that the Forsaken was so weak and threatened by the neighboring Alliance factions that they threw their lot in with the Horde for a convenient protector. Despite their leader really fucking things up for everyone, including the rest of the Horde.
And thanks to a bad writer who shall remain unnamed, that cunt of a leader gets nothing but rewarded.

>>48623542
The ambassador was there because the blood elves had joined up with the Horde.

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>>48623070
>3000 hours in ms paint

>>48623542
>they even sent a spy from ironforge that the player kills because he is a spy

>>48623479
*fel

Kel'thuzad damn it.

>>48623597
>they are totally spying on us! how dare they!
>So what if we are totally using fel magic?

>>48623479
Humans would take from, not add to the class.

Look at magi, paladins, and priests. Humans are a black hole when it comes to attention and spotlight. Let the elves and others have something unique besides the Druid class. He'll, the only reason there are night elves in PvP anymore is because humans can't be druids.

>>48623450
That's kind of dumb, considering most pvpers don't really care that much about the narrative. Hell, vanilla was the golden age of world pvp, and back then the factions were explictly in a state of cold war neighter wanted to turn hot (there were some border skirmishes and the like, which is what the battlegrounds represented, but no all-out war).

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>>48623639
>feel magic

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>>48622874
>putting your faith in the Old Gods

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>>48617034
space goat thread now please

>>48623157
Well, you saw what they did to the Overmind. Are you surprised?

>>48623671
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm sick of the human spotlight too. But Draenei Demon Hunters make no damn sense.

>>48623723
God damn it, I knew that was going to happen.

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>>48623671

>>48623385
Because unlike you the night elves can actually make smart decisions? Since you know, making a alliance with a major superpower when half of you homeland has been corrupted by demons, you recently lost your immortality, and you live in a world filled with threats that want to end all life is actually a really good decision.

>>48623426
Yeah, one guy did that.

One guy that was corrupted by the demons that corrupted the Night Elves waaaaaay back in the day.

AND THEN THE ORCS TEAMED UP WITH THE NIGHT ELVES TO KILL SATAN

FUCK YOU BLIZZARD

>>48623489
>Night Elves just joined the faction that had was going to help them stand up to the aggressive savages who were fucking up their forest

Did you even play Warcraft 3?

>>48623664
>Fucking fel using bastards.
>Oh, hello dear Gnome allies. Why yes that demon you summoned is looking lovely.

>>48623515

There never should have been Horde v Alliance in WoW or if there was Alliance should have been the obvious badguys since orcs are cool now.

I liked the forsaken joining the Horde because I could totally see Thrall being the kind of guy to say "No, these people shouldn't be punished for things they have not done."

>>48623998
Sentinels, Alliance, and Horde all should have been separate factions.

Have the undead on both, why the fuck not. Every race has dead.

>>48623850

Yeah, because that lore was so isolated I thought they just forgot about it.

>>48623925

OH I'M SORRY I THOUGHT I WAS IN A MAGICAL LAND OF ADVENTURE AND NOT FUCKING GAME OF THRONES

ALSO LAST I CHECKED HORDE ARE ALSO A BUNCH OF BADASSES SO THEY ARE A PERFECT ALLY CANDIDATE WITH BONUS POINTS FOR BEING YOUR NEIGHBOR

OH AND THERE WAS THAT TIME THEY HELPED YOU KILL SATAN. THAT WAS NICE OF THEM.

>>48623385
DURR 10,000 YEAR OLD BEINGS ARE XENOPHOBIC AND THINK EVERYONE ELSE IS LESSER.

Fucking stupid trope.

>>48624085

WAIT WHAT IS THAT THE FUCKING REASON BLIZZARD PUT OUT?

>>48623723
You know, before Chris' Big Book of Sperg, I had a faint hope that in Warcraft all magic stems from some sort of emotional state - rage, hope, bitterness, etc, with arcana being freaky primal essence of magic that gets changed by emotion. I thought that they would take the "mechanics" of holy light/forgotten shadow and extrapolate them.
But no, D&D-style energy planes for you all, it's too dangerous to wander that far from good ol' Gygax writings.

>>48623794
you mean space gypsies.

>>48624149
>expecting warcraft to have original concepts

>>48624187

>shitting on people for hoping the thing they love will be awesome

>>48624084
this, holy fuck this.
night elves are fucking retarded beyond belief, doesn't help humans are a gigantic pack of xenophobic gits, i mean god damn.

>>48624149
Even before the Chronicle, the lore didn't really support that. It was implied that arcane magic is essentially the magic the "leaks in" naturally from the Twisting Nether (while fel is what you get when you draw power directly from the neter, being very similar but far more corruptive and mutagenic), and the other forms of magic are their own thing (shaman magic comes from elements lending you power, druid magic is tied to the Emerald Dream and paladins draw power from the Light).

>>48624084
It's a magical land of adventure. And it's also a place that can't go a week without some new world ending disaster. As odd as that might seem, those two things are not mutually exclusive.

There was equal reason for the night elves to join the alliance as there was for them to join the horde. I won't dispute that.

>>48624377
> And it's also a place that can't go a week without some new world ending disaster

Yes you can. Last I checked there are some pretty big time skips between the games.

And once again, I have no idea why the fuck Night Elves are with the Alliance who have made it pretty clear that their foreign policy is "fuck orcs."

>>48624464
The only genuinely large time skips took place in-between the rts games. Ever since Wow started it's pretty much just been one world ending threat after the other. With maybe the occasional year of relative peace.

Also the Night elves joined the Vanilla wow Alliance, the one before Varian returned and fucked everything up. The one that wanted to largely avoid open conflict with the horde.

Night Elves shouldnt be in either faction lore wise and expulsing everything that enters northern/west kalimdor

>>48624648
Why? No seriously, why? Every time i hear this nonsense i just want to know if people actually played warcraft 3. And if they realize the kind of state the night elves are in at the start of wow.

>>48624699
W3 makes pretty clear they alone have the same strength as the horde (without the undead) and the theramore remmanent.

Stormwind was asspulled and the humans got a much better position that at the end of warcraft.

And the thing, they are no humans, they dont think like you or me, it was portrayed like that, they were xenophobic and considered all the other races lesser, last example of this in the current year is Maiev.

>>48623991
gnomes are just there to be cute desu. No gnome has done actual evil stuff like any other race.

>>48624699
Right? If anything, Ashenvale, Theramore and Durotar should be a loose coalition of allied nations with with trade agreements and mutual defense pacts, always keeping an eye out for demonic or undead incursions into Kalimdor, and with little if anything to do with the Eastern Kingdoms. The Nelfs might have some contact with Silvermoon and Thermamore with Kul Tiras and Gilneas, but no kid of formalized tie or anything like that.

>>48624639

Ah kk, I just remember the captain in the WC3 campaign being a huge doucher and I would get killed if I ever went into Alliance / Night Elf territory (which is a pretty hardcore cold war)

>>48624798
Then what happened in Gnomereggan?

>>48624788

> they were xenophobic and considered all the other races lesser

I never got a sense of this while playing the games. I remember them being really chill dudes who were about nature and harmony above all else as opposed to NIGHT ELF STRONK

I kind of wish we could get some sub races for WoW. Like Dwarves/Earthen or frost trolls.

>>48624858
them being adorably retarded.

>>48624788
>W3 makes pretty clear they alone have the same strength as the horde (without the undead) and the theramore remmanent

Yes. Then a demon invasion completely fucked them up. And they lost their immortality.

>Stormwind was asspulled and the humans got a much better position that at the end of warcraft.

Stormwind was not "asspuled", they had 21 years to repair and rebuild. Which is more than enough time, especially considering quite a few people fled to Stormwind after Lordearon was destroyed.

>And the thing, they are no humans, they dont think like you or me, it was portrayed like that, they were xenophobic and considered all the other races lesser, last example of this in the current year is Maiev.

They mostly got over their xenophobia in warcraft 3. At least enough to team up with humans and orcs to defeat a larger threat. Of which there are still more than enough at the start of Wow.

>>48624824
That would have been a pretty intrestring way to do things. The only real problem with that idea is Theramore. Which is(well was) in this weird position where it makes perfect sense that they would rejoin the alliance. But it should also be neutral enough to accept horde visitors.

>>48624846
Do you remember the part where everybody teamed up together to save the world?

>>48624788
>Stormwind was asspulled and the humans got a much better position that at the end of warcraft.
This meme needs to end.

>>48624798
That's what the Draenei thought about orcs too, then Fel Orcs happend.

>>48625099
the draenei didn't border with orcs, except when they allowed durotan to live with them. then they died.

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>>48624951
Kul Tiras must be doing FTL space exploration by now, right?

They teamed up against the demons, its clear. They will still kill orcs trying to chop trees, >>48624872 they also killed humans that cut trees, hated trolls and most types of technology.

Both Theramore and the Horde were really weakened with the war, so they were all 3 even.

WoW maked them hippie tree huggers and bimbos

>>48625182
>Cataclysm maked them hippie tree huggers and bimbos

>>48625182
>kul tiras accidentally kills sargeras by crashing a ship into him in an offscreen death in three expansions
>nobody knows why the demons suddenly stop coming
>nobody really cares

>>48625182

>night elves only live at the very summit of stonetalon and even then it's not heavily settled until cataclysm with the war effort
>tauren live in the majority of stonetalon for thousands of years
>for some reason you give all of stonetalon to the night elves

it's the same with desolace and feralas, too

night elves originally only had one small settlement in desolace (until cata) and had one base in feralas

no idea why you lump the entirety of those zones with "muh rightful night elf clay"

>>48625182
>WoW maked them hippie tree huggers and bimbos
I mean, let's face it, the only reason to involve oneself with a property that resembles WoW these days is specifically for the bimbos. League of Legends, DOTA, and WoW all have some top-tier fapbait.

Fuck I miss when Reign of Chaos

>>48625332
feralas also had a night elf city that had fallen into ruin and lots of dryads who were allied to the night elves prancing about. The tauren had 1 series of mud huts

>>48625080

Yeah but the epilogue of WC3 had a thing saying that while Jaina and her homies are cool, the rest of the Alliance back in their continent are lookin for some orcs to kill.

>>48625417

dire maul hasn't been controlled by the night elf government for over 10,000 years

it was split between ogres and renegade highborne

>mud huts

"look mom, i posted it again!"

>>48624906
> Gnomereggan refugees try to get help for the the disaster.
> "Ooohhh! Aren't they cute with their little problems? They're just like the grown-up countries!"
> "IT'S SERIOUS GOD DAMN IT!"

>>48625332
Ill give you the point with Stonetalon, but still a good part was under kaldorei control.

Desolace was for sure nelf, Cenarius son was there, same with Feralas, tho they shared the limit with the tauren. They moved soldiers and made war in Silithus, UnGoro and Tanaris no so long ago, and there were villages.

Just because WoW had to balance the factions or make the world clearly small doesnt mean kts not there.

>>48624311
Yeah, I see. Well, the idea of the Big Good Magic being Feel Magic was interesting enough.

>>48625182

Just because you are about nature and harmony doesn't mean you won't kill people who fuck with said nature and harmony, homie.

>>48625182
>Kul Tiras must be doing FTL space exploration by now, right?
No. Hell, considering there a nation of merchants. They probally lost quite a bit of power after the third war.

>They teamed up against the demons, its clear. They will still kill orcs trying to chop trees, >>48624872 they also killed humans that cut trees, hated trolls and most types of technology.

I don't want to sound insulting. Or try and discredit your argument based on your English skills.But i'm genuinely confused what you were trying to say here.

>Both Theramore and the Horde were really weakened with the war, so they were all 3 even.
The night elves probally got it worst of all. Considering how much of their forest got corrupted. But even if all 3 are equal. Stormwind and Ironforge are not.

>>48625383
>Implying Night Elves in Reign of Chaos aren't also fap bait.

>>48625478
the tauren barely had a presence in the area either way. The night elves had a big fucking naval outpost and had dryads there to help them as well.

Stonetalon was largely a pilgrimage site for the tauren, seeing as they were just trying to get to mulgore so that they could live in peace.

>>48625585
Not at all, there was just far more to Reign of Chaos than just wanting to see Tyrande fucked by orcs.

Such as letting her get fucked by Illidan, the objectively best solution to most of the settings current problems.

>>48625471
What? You mean Kul Tiras trying to invade Durotan in frozen throne?

>>48625610
>>48625610
>Tyrande fucked by orcs.
you got any pics?
links will do.
I need it for RPing.

>>48625568
Im on my mobile and its a bit hard.

Just wanted to say that they teamed up against the biggest enemy there is, but they nelves will still protect the forest from orcs, humans or whatever.

I really think W3 ended with an status wuo between kaldorei, humans and orcs. While in the Eastern Kingdoms the forsaken would have a hard time fighting vs the other undead.

Stormwind was a wild card by Blizzard to 'balance' the factions. Red vs Blue killed the lore.

>>48625610
>Implying people want to see orcs fucking Tyrande. Not other equally hot ambiguously lesbian night elves.

>>48625484
Well, when much of the race design is dev's chucklefuckery, it's really hard to take them seriously.

>>48625645
>Just wanted to say that they teamed up against the biggest enemy there is, but they nelves will still protect the forest from orcs, humans or whatever.

I can agree with that. But i also think most humans aren't dumb enough to start a wood cutting operation in Ashenvale.

>I really think W3 ended with an status wuo between kaldorei, humans and orcs. While in the Eastern Kingdoms the forsaken would have a hard time fighting vs the other undead. Stormwind was a wild card by Blizzard to 'balance' the factions. Red vs Blue killed the lore.

Yes. But Wow, at least before cata, was not Red Vs Blue, it was Red begrudgingly trying to live together with Blue.

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>>48621509
>Not calling the DH starting area "Illidan's Preparatory School For Elves"

>>48625485

The night elves was ONCE elven land, sure. But they abandoned it a long time ago, as evidenced by the fact that the majority of people living there were centaur and a few tauren.

A good part of Stonetalon wasn't under night elf control, though. The only place they lived was at the summit. There's tauren villages scattered all across the rest of the zone.

Feralas is really the only one I'm willing to concede, since the night elves did have a large base there. HOWEVER, their base was (prior to Cataclysm) not even on the mainland. The mainland had been largely abandoned and was inhabited by various other races (ogres, gnolls, tauren, dryads, etc.) with the sole exception of the Highborne in Dire Maul who were NOT members of the Alliance or the night elf "state" until Cataclysm.

>>48625591

As I mentioned earlier, the night elves may have had a big outpost but it wasn't even on the mainland. Their actual presence in Feralas proper (until Cataclysm) is less than that of the tauren.

What's your source on Stonetalon being a pilgrimage site for tauren? Seriously, they had several villages and settlements there which indicates it was more than just a "rest stop" on the way to Mulgore.

>>48625749
>The night elves was ONCE elven land, sure.

Whoops. Desolace, I meant.

>>48625697
They are obviusly more Alliance inclined, but the problem is that the Alliance has been deforming into a nation under the HIGH HUMAN KING, and this is something elves wouldnt accept.

But they just get dumb around humans and every character that does resist is, either directly evil or corrupted by something.

>VARYAN LET ME RUSH THAT TEMPLE WITH MY ARCHERS REEE

>>48625749
stonetalon is mentioned as a place where an oracle sees the strands of fate being weaved by the earth mother. It is a pretty semi mythical place to be in. The tauren were moving up the barrens and into the continent to get to mulgore before being genocided.

Feralas still had a night elven presence in the form of their allies like the dryads and the like. The night elves would consider it part of their land and they wouldn't be wrong seeing as it was on par with azshara. Night elves lived in both places when they were strong and they were trying to reclaim it once again.

>>48625643
I just pulled an example out of my ass, but I can say with absolute certainty it exists.

>>48625646
Don't start.

>>48625805
that happened way down the storyline. It made far more sense in vanilla where the alliance was literally a military alliance while the horde was the comfy family of outcasts.

>>48625749
How did the ogres got there anyway?

>>48625822
I gotta exercise my willy man

>>48625681
Yeah but just imagine being a gnome trying to seriously solve real issues?

>>48617934
No, it's awful. It takes away almost all of Arthas' light-hearted side when he was a paladin, and all of it when he becomes a Death Knight. The end result is that while originally, Arthas has the trappings of an Elric of Melnibone clone (white-haired prettyboy prince who betrays his kingdom and wields a soulstealing runeblade and sorcerous powers), he just ends up as a pure Elric clone. He's just very dour the entire story, no bants or KT bromance.

And it also treats Arthas and Jaina's relationship like an average relationship that they could enter and call off as soon as Arthas went "I'm too you to be a daddy", ignoring the fact that he and Jaina are royalty, with all the politics implied with that.

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>mfw they gave azshara to the meme horde gnomes
>mfw they didnt even try to finish the original azshara a single time

>>48625948
i like new azshara, it has a pleasure palace and a big ass wmd smack in the middle of it.

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>>48625948
>mfw Azshara literally became a massive Horde symbol

Eat shit Elf pleb

>>48617838
>Your pain shall be legendary
Did you read it in his voice?

>>48625811

that was only stonetalon peak, not the entire zone

first off, the night elf "allies" are their own people. the giants, dryads, etc. just because they live there doesn't mean the night elves had a presence or even a claim. it means their allies who lived there do. the night elves can consider all of azeroth to be their land but that doesn't make it so. they abandoned both azshara and feralas and other peoples moved in and established settlements. it's no longer "rightful elven land" otherwise you could argue that the entirety of kalimdor is rightful elven land because mulgore was a hunting ground and the barrens used to be a big forest.

it doesn't work that way

>>48625948

>Meme Horde gnomes

Goblins are older and more iconic to Warcraft than gnomes. If anything, gnomes are the meme Alliance goblins.

Can I just say that literally everything that happens in Reign of Chaos was the fault of Dalaran (for being incompetent chucklefucks and for kicking KT out) and Gilneas for breaking up the Alliance?
Because it's true.
>>48626001
>Fateless cowards!
God fuck now I wanna play some WC3
I was just thinking of messing about in the editor and maybe making a map for me and my bros to play.

>>48610719
Belf Belle is way more attractive than she should be.

>>48626112
>belf belle

Isn't it Jaina?

>>48626010
It does work that way.

Also dryads are literal sisters of the nelves, fairy dragons are there to help the druids. They are a single entity.

Kalimdor is literally 'the land of the children of the stars' they could say Durotar is rightfully theirs if they want, because it is.

>>48626029
It was a joke, both are meme races.

Is this better?

>>48623036
That's the worst thing about the new lore: Sargeras is technically right, but we can't join him to make the flawless universe (his methods still sucks, though). Even if we defeat him (and Blizzard made demons indestructible in the new lore, they just respawn), we're still fucked.

>>48626049
>I was just thinking of messing about in the editor and maybe making a map for me and my bros to play.
Damn I remember when I tried to make a dwarf campaign where you must gather your people to seal yourself underground during reign of Chaos (it was before wow, I assumed then that some demons went south to fuck shit up).

>>48623043
But they weren't supposed to just defend the city, Garithos ordered Kael'thas to attack the nearby Scourge, but took away his artillery support and cavalry. He sent him on a suicide mission.

It was hypocritical to accuse Kael of being traitor after he allied with the naga and then joined with the Forsaken himself

>>48626029
Gnomes have been in since WC2. Gyrocopters in WC2 were gnomish, with them being made Dwarven in 3.

>>48626131
>It does work that way.

Except it doesn't. The night elves abandoned the majority of Kalimdor after the Sundering, nothing of south or east of Ashenvale is "rightfully" theirs. Ashenvale? Rightfully theirs. Darkshore? Theirs. Felwood? Theirs. Winterspring? Theirs.

Azshara? Not theirs. They abandoned Azshara ENTIRELY because they considered it HAUNTED. They willingly forfeited any "rightful claim" they might have to it.

Feralas? They have a claim on SOME of it. The entirety of it is not theirs, though. Other peoples moved in and settled the lands they abandoned.

Faerie dragons, dryads, and night elves aren't a single entity. If they were, the night elves wouldn't need to recruit them and ask for their aid every time they went into battle.

Durotar isn't rightfully theirs and I'm seriously amazed you're trying to make that the argument that all of Kalimdor is rightful elf land. You really how dumb of an argument that is, right? Because if we're going to use that logic, all of Kalimdor, the EK, Northrend, etc. is actually rightful TROLL land.

>>48626233
>most of the old popular wc3 maps have been ported to the dota2 custom games
Feels good, man. I tried playing wc3 custom campaigns, but the writing just seemed way too shitty to enjoy anything.

>>48626233
There's a custom dwarf campaign where the first mission is pretty much about that. It usually shows up in recommended custom campagins.

>>48626178
> Blizzard made demons indestructible in the new lore, they just respawn
I mean, didn't we already know that circa WC3?

>>48625617

Nah, I mean when Jaina Proudmoore's dad or some shit showed up like a huge asshole.

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>>48626297
Well I don't really remember my "writings" of the time, but to be fair it was most certainly shit. I was in my early teen and the main character was a golem (totally not a robot, I swear!) for absolutely no reason.

>>48624798
what about Milhouse Manastorm?
>so evil that he managed to get locked in the Arcatraz before the Dark Portal reopened
>immediately joins the Twilight's Hammer once he gets out
>keeps asking the PC if they know where to get nuclear weapons

>>48626291
Except no more than 800 years ago they had people,living in Silithus and armies moving all the south of Kalimdor.

There were elves living in Desolace, Feralas, Azshara, even in the dranei islands. Maybe they were more scattered but they did live in most west Kalimdor.

The east was mostly abandoned, yes, because it was barren. They gave it to the tauren and later to the orcs.

Anyway WoW was a mess with the elves.

>biggest city is 5 years old

>>48626459
He was a double agent, didnt you know? He was infiltrating TH, thats why he waited so lomg to cast the spell and let you win.

>>48626475

The people living in Silithus weren't there because they wanted to be. They were there to keep watch. The armies came south because the qiraji threatened all of Kalimdor.

Night elves never gave any land to the tauren of the orcs. They abandoned land that other races moved in and settled, not limited to but including: the Barrens, Durotar, Azshara, Feralas, Stonetalon, Thousand Needles, Desolace, etc.

>Sylvanas is Lich Queen

>Garrosh Hellscream, Zaela Hellscream, Nathanos Blightcaller, Vol'jin, Cairne Bloodhoof, Thrall, Lor'themar Theron, Varok Saurfang, and Boss Mida make the war council

>>48626178
Maybe if we just ignore the new lore it'll go away.

>>48625892
Mekkatorque is a sad, sad gnome.
Then again, even he is supposed to routinely invent a convoluted, inefficient rube goldberg machine in order to accomplish anything, so it's like watching a savant trying to use only his narrow area of expertise to get through a day. It's still comedic/infuriating, even if it's sad.

>>48626432

>implying you need a reason

Golems are horribly underrepresented as characters.

>>48626510
his wife is a dungeon boss in the new expansion. i didn't even know he had a wife.

>>48626597
i thought that was his sister.

>>48626563
wait zaela and garrosh got married? that's so cute.

>>48626563
>Zaela Hellscream,
I cry every time

>you ARE prepared

I don't think I've ever cringed this hard

>>48626615
nah, in the dungeon journal is says it's his wife, who is actually a good villain, which is why she got locked up. millhouse has the intention to be a villain, and an enormous amount of magical power, he's just not very good at it, taking a tonne of time to cast his spells, giving people second chances etc.

>>48626521
It was literally a village of civilians.

They limited the orcs territory with the alliance, letting them stay in their continent.

It is historical theirs, the west even more. Feralas has a jungle to protect, and in Desolace there was at least a dommunity of druids living. Stonetalon was, at least for a part big enough to cross south, theirs.

Azshara was nelf territory, but that zone was never really made, so...

>>48626667

All of Kalimdor is troll land. The night elves are squatters.

>>48626717
Joke's on you, night elves are [s]mutant[/s] trolls.

>>48626593
Eh, I guess a "This is so cool!" writing is less cringy than an "edgy" writing.

>>48625838
I was asking the same question few threads back. The best answer was that they propably took some ships after second war. Horde battleships were called ogre juggernaught, affter all.

>>48626806
And how did the makrura arrived to Kalimdor, Pandaria, Northrend and every known continent, also to Terrallende and WoD Draenor?

>>48626806
I wonder how much ogreness is implied by the name. are they mostly crewed by ogres or is it just called that to contrast the troll crewed destroyers

>>48626327
Nope, until WoD, only dreadlords were supposed to be immortal unless killed by another dreadlord. Everyone assumed Archimonde is dead (Warcraft RPG even had dreadguards getting depressed and becoming mercenaries after the death of their commander, they don't take orders from anyone else... which was kinda awesome). And with Mannoroth still being around, his blood pact with orcs should still be valid. Now? Grom's sacrifice means nothing, elves lost their immortality for nothing, everything we'll accomplish in Legion would be for nothing.

>>48626856
Makrura are native to the Great Sea, and their capital is a stone's throw away from Nazjatar.

And the giant lobsters (bogstroks) in Draenor are unrelated native life that is is also a giant lobster.

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>>48626357
Yes, Jaina's dad, ruler of Kul Tiras, Grand Admiral of the Alliance and supreme commander of Alliance naval forces, Lord Admiral Daelin Proudmoore

>>48623945
Yes. And it perfectly explains why the Night Elves don't like orcs.

>>48626459
>so evil that he managed to get locked in the Arcatraz before the Dark Portal reopened

Funny thing is, during Trial of Naaru: Mercy, A'dal said Milhouse was imprisoned by mistake...propably because despite being evil, he was really bad at it

His wife will be a boss in Legion's version of violet hold. And there was that gnome boss in Pit of Saron

>>48627068
>yfw Jaina probably hears his voice whispering "I told you so" all the time
>sometimes she catches herself repeating everything he tells her
>it's not even "really the Old Gods" or "really Kil'Jaeden," she's just losing her grip on reality more by the day and hearing her dead dad is a symptom
>sometimes she even thinks she can see him, smiling grimly
>every time she looks at Orgrimmar, she sees phantoms of Stratholme
>Arthas is next to her, telling her it must all be purged
>she can't look at even the greenest, least Warrior-y Orc on Azeroth without seeing Garrosh
>constant nightmares of reliving Theramore over and over