Magic: The Gathering Modern General (competitive discussion)

>>48606890
It's not like Nahiri is very good when she gets hit with Anguished Unmaking. Or just like, gets Thoughtseized away.

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The overall and paper Modern Metagame

Decklists:
>http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#paper

Modern deck primers link:
>http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern

Reminder that Mardu and Esper will be tier 1 next month

>>48606907
>I don't need a 2-mana card that does a specific job because I have a 4-mana card that might be able to do that job on turn 7 at the earliest

Brilliant thinking.
I don't know why we're all not running Karns, we have all the time and mana in the world to accomplish anything we want.

>>48607021
It's like you're just ignoring the deck and the things I'm saying so you can focus on semantics. I've played against Nahiri decks and done very well against them. Not that it matters because unless it's making top 8 at SCG events on a regular basis, it's fucking SHIT.

>>48606868
>subject in namefield
Off to a good start. Now we just need some stale superfriends memes and I will feel at home.

Can someone explain to me is esper good or just a meme
If good pls link me up with some decklists

>>48607088
It's not just good, it's tier 1. Once you rev for 15 there are not a lot decks that can stop you.

>>48607055
Of course I'm ignoring the things you're saying because you're contradicting your own arguments.

Let's recap the conversation.
>Look at my decklist
>Dismember seems odd, why not Terminate?
>Because it only costs 1 mana. (So, here you're making the point that it's important if cards cost less mana)
>Actually, why not Dreadbore instead? It does more than Terminate or Dismember.
>Because I have a 4 mana card that does that. (See, now there's the part where you're going against your previous argument)
>Well, that card's pretty vulnerable, isn't it?
>Nahiri is vulnerable to all sorts of stuff, I don't need Dreadbore. (Here your argument for saying why it doesn't matter that your card is vulnerable is by pointing out that another card is also vulnerable to the same things)

You're just not really trying to make any sense.

>>48607072
How about Tarfire in delver memes?

>>48607152
They are not as good. I don't think there ever were a deck that used Tarfire over Lightning Bolt it just had both. So it's not really funny.

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>>>48603182

>JtMS would be a fairly safe unban for modern

Opinions?

>>48607148
The poor anon is just retarded. He won't take any serious (and actually helpful) criticisms about his trash meme deck.

>>48607148
I mentioned Sorin as a joke. Also this started from someone requesting to see my decklist, not from me asking for advice. So please, shove your opinions back up your ass where they came from.

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>>48607218
>I mentioned Sorin as a joke

It's so hard to tell when people are joking on the internet. I guess your decklist was just a joke too.

>>48607152
it ran one tarfire in addition to four bolts. is there anything relevant in this format with 3 toughness anyway? I admit I'm not thinking super hard, but I can't come up with anything.

>>48607218
>IT WAS MERELY A JEST

>>48607218
He is still right you know

>>48607148
>Actually, why not Dreadbore instead? It does more than Terminate or Dismember.

Not that anon but Dreadbore is sorcery speed and that's sometimes a huge hurdle. I play grixis Faeries and my normal method for dealing with Planeswalkers is a bolt to the face or booping them with manlands

>>48607274
No, he's not right. You faggots just don't get it do you. There's no such thing as right or wrong when you're splitting hairs. Does Jund run 4 Bolts, or 3 Bolts and a Tarfire? There's literally no correct answer to the question, so just do what the fuck ever. Dreadbore is 2 restrictive mana and sorcery speed, Dismember is essentially 1 generic mana and instant speed. There are upsides and downsides to both, so sitting there shaking uncontrollably in your chair while you try to correct someone on the internet in a matter with no correct answer is fucking retarded.

But please, do continue.

>>48607297
When the rebuttal is "Sorin can do it", Sorcery speed doesn't seem to be the relevant issue.

>>48607202
Well, control in modern could use a boost. The unbanning of JtMS would make UWx t1/t2

>>48607297
why not tarfire?

>>48607350
It would also make it like $500 more expensive.

>>48607364
please don't

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http://www.strawpoll.me/10898271
http://www.strawpoll.me/10898271
http://www.strawpoll.me/10898271

^^ if you do not complete this strawpoll, your mother will die in her sleep tonight.

>>48607348
Yeah that's just a weird thread, I'm jut explaining the legit reason people don't normally go for Dreadbore.

>>48607202
I think you're underestimating JtMS because you haven't played with/against him that much

>>48607346
>Does Jund run 4 Bolts, or 3 Bolts and a Tarfire? There's literally no correct answer to the question
4 Bolts is the correct answer. I'm not saying Dreadbore is necessarily better but you did seem to contradict yourself before.

>>48607346
You're dragging this back to the Dreadbore v. Dismember part, but the relevant point here is that "Sorin was just a joke" is not being accepted. The other anon was still right because you said a bunch of stupid shit and are now trying to retread over it in the most pathetic way possible.

>>48607389
There is no option that fits me. Now my mother is going to die you sick fuck.

>>48607346

why the fuck would you run 3 bolts and a tarfire

>>48607202
JTMS is probably fine, but your post (assuming it's you) is almost 100% wrong regarding his power level. He is still the best 4 mana planeswalker by far. While nahiri straight ends the game when you ult. Jace usually ends the game after a couple activations of his +2 or 0. You don't play him for his ult. You threaten the ult to force your opponent to try and expend resources to deal with him.

>>48607407
>>48607412
So I was right earlier and you ARE just a pair of faggots arguing semantics because you've nothing better to do.

>>48607433
Tribal is another card type for your Goyfs.

>>48607394
If you look around, pretty much the only deck in black and red that ever picks Dismember over Dreadbore/Terminate is Living End, and there's an obvious reason for that.

can someone please explain to me if esper is good
without memes
if it is, link decklist

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>>48607452
Nah, you were wrong earlier. That's kinda the whole point.

>>48607477
it is bad unless your meta is all jund and grixis midrange.

>>48607486
Congratulations pigeon, you've knocked over the pieces and shit all over the chessboard. Now it's time to strut around victoriously with your chest puffed out.

Bye.

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>>48607502
Bye then.

>>48607530
>jazz hands

>>48607389
So rest in peace?

Would jtms unban just make mill even better?

>>48607574
Well mill is terrible to begin with, so it's a nonissue.

>>48607574
are you trolling or just retarded?

>>48607477
Try it for yourself
u can find decklists on mtgtop8
u basically counter everything then cast sphinx's revelation for 15

>>48607477
All menes aside, esper draw go is a solid, skill intensive deck with quite a few good MU's(including some popular T1/T2 decks). Furthermore it can be tailored to hate on a specific archetype quite easily. The reason it's not played all that much is because most people find both playing with and against it boring, and because when it wins, it wins slowly so you're going to miss a lot of wins due to timeouts.

>>48607456
Really? Most of the decks I've seen also splash green and opt for a mixture of Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. You see the odd one-of in Jund lists for the players that are a bit antsy about Tron but that's it.

>>48607181
>>48607268
Thank you for not turning my deck into a meme. You're good anons

>>48607645
Alright, so let's do a quick search on MTGTop8.
>Jund in Modern
1292 decks matching
>Jund in Modern with Dismember
84
>Jund in Modern with Dreadbore or Terminate
1082

I'm sure if you look around, you'll see mostly the same thing with other decks with B/R manabases.

>>48607425

Well, what do you play in your 75 for graveyard hate?

Whatever happened to Hangarback Walker?

>>48607927
Ooze, but I don't play Jund. I play Abzan CoCo so I sort of need the graveyard myself. I also already have an out vs Dredge.

>>48607963
What do you mean? Nothing happened to it.

>>48607980

>Scooze
>Out to Dredge

u 'avin a giggle m8?

>>48608019
You hardly ever see anyone running it now.

>>48608084
There is only one guy playing Dredge in my LGS. The only real problem I have with it is Conflagrate. I'm not going to fill my sideboard with stuff that ruins my own gameplan just hit that card.

>>48608118
It was never really played. This is the modern general.

>>48608124

Conflagrate and Darkblast fuck Abzan Company up, for sure.

>>48608277
He doesn't actually run Darkblast in his list. Basically his only interaction is Conflagrate so it's definitely not impossible for me to combo off.

>>48608136
It was played in Affinity for a while.

>>48608383
By retards. It's a super slow card. Better at grinding out

>>48608383
There might have been a couple of people falling for it just because "it is expensive so it must be good right?"
It really is too slow to be worth it in Affinity. It was good in Standard though.

Reminder that Dredge should run Gifts because it works with Narcomoeba.

>>48608545
This place stoops to new levels of stupidity every day

>>48608545

>a turn 4 aggro deck that relies on precise balance to achieve the necessary synergistic qualities should play a 4 mana card in an off-color to put 1/1s into play

Kill yourself, my man.

>>48608328

>Not running Darkblast

It's like he 'wants' to die to Infect or something.

>>48608846
>to put 1/1s into play

Not that guy, but to be fair, you're much more likely grabbing 1 Narcomoeba and 1 Prized Amalgam.

Reminder that Crumbling Vestige is the card that will bring back Bloom.

>>48608923
Not to mention any other Amalgams in your yard. Or you can dump any spice you like in there. Board into an Iona package.

>>48609000
The huge advantage to bouncelands is their replayability. You only needed one land in hand when you cast Summer Bloom to explode. And if you can't explode, you might be playing the wrong deck. Bouncelands ensure you'll KEEP making your land drops.

is junk still tier 2? I'm thinking of actually buying it, tired of losing.

>>48609354
Look at the cards it gets to play. It will never actually be bad. Jund being better may goes to show how fucking good bolt is.

Any deck that can run lingering souls is instantly bumped up in my books just because that card is busted.

You get better hate cards from the white is right aspect of magic too

>>48609411
>Look at the cards it gets to play.
>Jund being better may goes to show how fucking good bolt is.
>Any deck that can run lingering souls is instantly bumped up in my books just because that card is busted.
Meanwhile Mardu runs both and is considered a joke.

>>48609472
Not him but no goyf is hard. Jund and abzan have more "just drop me and I'll end the game senpai" cards.

>>48609472
I don't think it's a joke. It's not the best but losing goyf and decay/pulse is a big deal, like it or not.

>>48609513
>>48609529
Goyf is overrated. Late game I'd probably rather be dropping an Abbot for the Bloodbraid Elf effect of "oh hey it's a Lilly".

>>48609411
jund isn't even strictly better, there are MU's junk does better

>>48609610
>I'd rather have abbot of standard keep than tarmogoyf

You're beyond help then

>>48609472
well, play it any do well in majors and it will stop being a joke

>>48609263
You can still loop bounce lands, bouncing vestige is great for when you don't want to bounce a bounceland as the deck is already full of them.

>>48609610
You serious?

>>48609472
I don't really get why lingering souls is so underestimated. It's pretty harsh against any beater deck.

Also, personal opinion, Junk is doable without Liliana and Tarmogoyf. It's just completely different deck.

>>48610178
exactly for the reason you pointed out. it's good against straight beat down decks. lots of decks in modern just laugh at it. ad nauseam, tron, coco, scapeshift, storm, Kiki chord, and to a lesser extent, infect don't give a fuck about it.

>>48609472
Mardu really, really wants SFM as a replacement for Goyf, but it's banned.

>>48610321
Well, basically these types of decks are bad against combos anyway without discards, so I don't think that's an issue. I can imagine infect having a hard time against junk anyway due to removal suite.

>>48610348

Play Wall of Omens, cuck aggro shitters forever. Problem solved!

>>48610406
yeah that's why I said to a lesser extent, although abrupt decay lines up poorly against inkmoth nexus and getting a t1 elf pathed feels actively good most of the time. still not a great matchup, but more like 55-45 in junks favor.

>>48610633
Nice to be on the same page on /tg/ for once in a while. So basically it boils down to it not helping against worse matchups and the deck being strong against "fair" matchups already.

>>48610751
yeah that's a good, concise way of putting it.

>>48610899
>>48610751
get a fucking room already

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xth for blood moon should be banned in modern

>>48611110
yeah man, how many majors have you won with that infamous blue moon deck

>>48611110
>not having an answer to a simple >enchantment
what a faggot

>>48611150
3-0'd an fnm, pretty sure that means the deck's tier 1 like mardu, esper, and spirits.

>>48611110
-1 wormcoil
+1 keranos

Izzet midrange is a thing. It's like grixis midrange, except you don't get terminates or goodies like kcommand but roast acts like terminate and bloodmoon steals games, with counterspells getting you to lategame. Blue moon is sweet

So when is twin getting unbanned?

I mean they basically proved nothing in modern changed since it's banning

>>48611650
I tried keranos in the maindeck for a while, it is fantastic against jund and grixis but pretty bad against almost everything else. Wurmcoil kills them a lot more quickly and can stabilize against aggro decks, which keranos can't. I've still got one keranos in the board though, because he grinds like nothing else.

>>48611110
Chandra is such a nut card, I feel like she's being slept on a bit.

6 CMC is rough, but man does she close games.

>>48611670

>nothing changed

What are you talking about, anon? The format became more linear as decks no longer have to interact with each other.

Remember, kids: Richard Garfield didn't intend for you to interact with each other while playing the game. Magic is a contest of building the best solitaire deck!

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>>48612031
She's basically pic related but red.

A powerful but very niche win condition for control decks.

>>48612186
>twinniggers think they're gods gift to the format
Kys

>>48612769
desu senpai I just want Twin back so my Grixis list gets another great matchup

Also nothing has changed since it got banned so it clearly wasn't as big of a problem as they has had said. I thought it was holding back that epic temur delver list. OOPS turns out it was just a shitty deck

>>48612812
You sound like an insufferable cunt irl

>>48612888
My bad pal. What do you play? Tron?

Off yourself

Since I'm poor and don't want to spend too much more money I'm just running a UR Ensoul deck to play at a local Modern scene. Should I splash in some white or black for some additional control or just keep it pretty straightforward?

>>48612031

I've been waiting for someone to win a big scene using that Chandra and seeing all the people at my LGS suddenly say they've ALWAYS loved her and haven't spent months hating her.

Just like they did with the new Nahiri. I don't get why people can't just admit they made a bad call. With as many cards as Magic has you can't nail EVERY appraisal.

I hate infect.

Subscribe to my blog.

>>48613172
>he doesn't think the same thing but with new sorin
>he doesn't think tamiyo is broken op shit that will break vintage

Make modern great again:
reprint wasteland or ban Urza's Mine.

>>48613694
tron is not even that good right now
ban goblin guide, glistener elf, and mox opal. unban twin, jace, and bloodbraid
now that's modern

>>48612769

Not even a Twin player, bud, just someone who understands the way the metagame works.

>b-b-but muh linear deck can't afford slots to run interaction

Play a better deck, nigger.

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Prohibit reprint in Kaladesh confirmed to be the savior that modern needs, not the one it deserves.

>>48614182

Please don't tease me with such sweet thoughts, anon ;(

>>48607259
you are so disruptive

>>48613818
Don't care. Tron is the most annoying deck to play against. Tronfags are the most annoying people.

Tron as a credible threat keeps control from being viable, except in very specific flavors, because nothing can beat tron's late game. That's why every flavor of control you see is combo first, and control second.

>>48617791
That's not true because tron no longer has the inevitability factor since the eye of ugin ban. They no longer can dig for threats or answers. Tron's strengt isn't late vs late, it's getting to the late game by turn 3.

>>48617821
They still have incredible card selection and filtering with Ancient Stirrings. How terrible for them that they need to run more than one copy of ugin/karn now.

>>48617791

Not true at all. A friend of mine has been playing exclusively UW Control in Modern for like 2 years and has a positive win rate against Tron. Spreading Seas is the tech, man.

why are there 2 modern generaIs

>>48607634

>turn 1
>glistener elf
>wild nacatl
>insolent neonate
>a typical affinity spew
>slippery bogle
>in case of the other deck you go to turns

But it's a solid deck!

>>48617791

It's like you missed all the twiniggers. But true, their deck is no longer modern legal.

>>48613070
>play two cards to get a 5/5 creature
>making my removal 2-for-1 deals
At least Ensoul your Darksteel Citadel to make it indestructible.

>>48619344
It's not solid because of the T1 plays. It's solid because it runs discard, draw, life gain, counterspells, removal and has access to a BW sideboard. Which means it do well in pretty much every meta.

>>48620649

>Which means it do well in pretty much every meta

Except the decks I mentioned that make the autist scoop upon seeing T1 play.

>>48620649
not the anon you replied to, but it feels like you missed the point of his post. if your opponent opens on any scenario described, the game is over. you lost.

>>48620784
>>48620797
>pte
>blessed alliance
>supreme verdict
>wrath of god

You guys do know esper consists of the colors black and white.

>>48621400
yes and I consistently beat the dude who writes the mtgs primer. the deck is slow and clunky. it loses hard to aggro.

>>48621400

Control in Modern suffers from the 'wrong half' problem too often to actually be a good deck. The counterspells are too slow and conditional to be effective (unlike Legacy, where FoW, actual counterspell, Daze, Counterbalance, etc. give you fast enough and broad enough tools to fight the field) and the removal lines up poorly against basically everything (Swords is miles better than Path, Terminus is busted in half, you have other tools like Pernicious Deed, Deluge, etc. Shit isn't narrow like staring at the Path in your hand as your opponent plays a turn 1 Noble Hierarch) and you lack the consistency and card advantage afforded by Ponder, Brainstorm, JtMS, etc. Have fun drawing your opener with Blessed Alliance as your opponent plays Seachrome Coast into Sleight of Hand into suspend Lotus Blossom. Enjoy your Path to Exile as you stare down Slippery Bogle. Good luck with your Supreme Verdict when your opponent casts Goblin Guide. Face it, anon - Esper, and control at large, are trash in Modern.

>>48607790
Umm, I think you might be a little confused. I'm not really a fan of Dismember, I'm only saying that I don't think Dreadbore is a very popular pick either. Jund's normal removal suite is Bolt, Pulse, Decay and Terminate.

>>48622922
>I'm not really a fan of Dismember

Then you've jumped into the wrong conversation. The argument was always "why would you be using Dismember in a B/R deck", you're kind of on a tangent.

>>48621400

>trying to wrath a bogle (blessed alliance could slow a bogle player down tho, unless he plays around it)
>expecting to be alive long enough against affinity to wrath their board
>implying dredge cares about any of those spells (and as far as I know most esper lists don't use RIP in their sideboard)
>implying suicide zoo isn't just 2fast4you
>implying infect isn't cancer holy fuck.

>>48624322
they do usually run rip in piss but not more than two so they can't count on having it