Warmachine and Hordes General

>>48562644

It's odd that there's not far more chainsaws in the game. You'd thing an armored iron golem with incredible strength would be more commonplace considering how utterly terrifying it would be to whoever you sic'd it on.

>>48563190
There isn't really a reason for there to be chainsaws more common. Blades would wear down pretty fast, and replacing the chain would be a pain in the ass. It'd work best if it were mechanika but then you'd have to power it. Renegade only really gets away with it because Magnus is considered one of the better warjack mechanics out there. So for most interactions a big blade or club is far more cost effective. Then you gotta look in faction aesthetics and theme. Once again, not really many open to it. Convergence has more effective designs, Ret and Cryx don't really do that sort of thing, Menoth wants more religious iconography - Cygnar wants more storm tech, and Khador wants it simple. So you're pretty much stuck with Mercs as suitable to the appeal.

>>48563634
Mercs have all the coolest jack weapons. Anchors, drills, chainsaws, buzzsaw flails, and pile bunker hammers.

I love the crap they get.

File: Centurian2.jpg (85KB, 931x631px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 931x631px

For a shooty army should I go Cygnar or Retribution?
Are there any black-red-gold color schemes like pic related for Retribution? I'm not that creative with colors...

>>48564005

Cygnar if you want jack heavy shooty and Ret if you want infantry based shooty

>>48564043
>Cygnar
>jack heavy shooty
Sweet, thanks!

>>48564005
just paint your shit any scheme you want.
if you stick to 3 colours that don't look abhorent next to each other, and paint the same bits the same colour across your force, you'll be fine.
but going scheme per house in ret is kinda nice.
>gold base, black details, red features.
>black base, gold details, red features.

Anyone got any cool colour schemes for cephalyx?

File: murica.gif (2KB, 412x217px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 412x217px

>>48564150
only viable option
>cool

File: IMG_20150906_144344636.jpg (755KB, 1728x973px) Image search: [Google]

755KB, 1728x973px

>>48564005
Ret is tricky to paint without airbrushing or really high skill, because most of their armor is nearly featureless. This means large areas of an individual color, with bits of the others helping out.

>>48564172
>gay pride cephalyx
yeah nah, they're a weird, Nietzschean super-society with brainwashed and altered slaves, not a fucking pride parade
it'll be my fallback scheme

File: 1.jpg (592KB, 1375x650px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 1375x650px

>>48564150
lab coats with blood

File: 2.jpg (51KB, 600x338px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x338px

>>48564231
or pic related

>>48564231
oh man, that is a sexy scheme, I might just jump on that one

Am I the only one who doesn't want the Kayazy to ever get updated sculpts? At this point I feel they have been so terrible for so long that they've almost become an institution. It's a proud tradition to make fun of their melted faces and horrible anatomy, and many laughs have been had from ithurtstolive.jpgs. They're the Morrigan sprite of WarmaHordes.

Unlike, say, the Forsaken, Doom Reavers or Boomhowlers, they're so bad in such a distinct way that I find them hilarious rather than just off-putting.

>>48563694
Emphasis on the word "crap".

Not shitting on them, mind you. I'm a merc player myself. But half the appeal is the hodge-podge second-hand ghetto nature of the faction.

>>48564086
Keep in mind that while 'jacks (particularly ranged ones) are more viable now than ever thanks to changed ROF and Focus rules, gunlines never were particularly viable in WarmaHordes and going too heavy on gunjacks will screw you when your opponent inevitably gets into melee and you're stuck swinging impotently taking out one or two infantry models per 'jack. Not to talk about missions that force you to occupy objectives and/or killboxes forcing you to the center.

This goes doubly now that they nerfed Kraye to hell and you can't just shoot n' scoot all day erry day.

>>48565677
I'm not planing on going full gunline but I just want some good shooty jacks

>>48565677

tell that to sloan, top players have been having great success with a double firefly double hunter double defender build with two min stormlances to back it up, among some other misc. support like reinholdt

>>48565741
Then Cygnar is your faction. Between Power Up and ROF 2, the Charger is fucking fantastic now. Stick Strangewayes near it and you have a self-sustaining machine capable of knocking a sizeable hole in most stuff. The Defender is as solid as ever (even slightly better due to free focus and slightly better stats), while costing less.

The only real shame is that some of the auto-include force multipliers have been nerfed. But they were pretty overpowered anyway and weren't used as intended to begin with, so it's more than fair.

Retribution is pretty solid in terms of shooting too, but they tend to be less blasty, fuck-your-shit up shooty and more weird tricksy debuff shooting, at least when it comes to 'jacks.

>>48565836
It's an extreme skew list, though. We saw the same thing early MkII with Lylyth Ravagore lists, and those disappeared pretty quickly once people learned how to handle them. The very design of the game with short ranges, extreme threat on melee units and objectives that force people up close generally make gunlines less than optimal. Granted, I'm not a tournament player, but that's what's happened in every other edition eventually. Guns have a place, but generally not as the main focus of a list.

Unless you get pieces like Haley2 and Stormwalls, which is less about gunlines and more about combining two of the most overpowered models in MkII to create a giant clusterfuck of bullshit where you can't do anything while she gets to go twice and tears you a new asshole.

>>48565902

>Guns have a place, but generally not as the main focus of a list.

That is something that always makes me sad. I do like gunlines myself.

>>48565915
I find it's actually a pretty fun take on it. Guns are more about getting close enough that you're actually putting yourself in peril even if you're pulling some Circle/Legion shit shooting through cover. Certain games that won't be named where you can safely shoot from cover across the entire the table tend to make gunlines static and kind of boring because you're just standing still and rolling dice.

It also fits the WWI into the breach aesthetic. You fire from the hip and draw your saber.

>>48565256

Boomhowlers are fine though, or at least compared to most early Nyss adults.

I really hope PP gives pAbby an update sometime.

File: trencherInfantry_WEB.jpg (363KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

363KB, 600x600px

So I've been out of Warmachine for a while, since I got turned off by the idea that the only way to make a good Cygnar list is to use mostly Mercs.

Is it now possible to make a Trencher focused army list in Mrk3? I heard they got a boost.

File: RAVNICA_Izzet_Art.jpg (1MB, 3200x2400px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3200x2400px

>>48565859
Sounds good, I really like the look of Cygnar the Izzet vibe had me immediately

Polish Championship 2016

Lists (more or less, two people dropped, I believe that one jumped in):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4FN4OI7Zo5EUEZBTno4alpRZGM/view

Results:
1. Blady Circle Orboros 6 (20.0)(12)(504)
2. Heru Mercenaries 5 (25.0)(17)(544)
3. Chomik Circle Orboros 5 (24.0)(21)(240)
4. Dziekan Retribution of Scyrah 5 (24.0)(10)(364)
5. Erlos Cygnar 5 (20.0)(11)(480)
6. Skrzyp Retribution of Scyrah 5 (19.0)(10)(415)
7. Pomek Protectorate of Menoth 4 (23.0)(14)(457)
8. Vampai Cryx 4 (23.0)(11)(239)
9. MJ Mercenaries 4 (22.0)(20)(431)
10. Pyra Protectorate of Menoth 4 (22.0)(17)(431)
11. Encaitar Protectorate of Menoth 4 (22.0)(13)(385)
12. Zulk Cryx 4 (22.0)(6)(295)
13. Baton Skorne 4 (21.0)(12)(377)
14. Ice-T Minions 4 (20.0)(18)(436)
15. Archain Circle Orboros 4 (19.0)(18)(302)
16. Abbadon Mercenaries 4 (19.0)(17)(392)
17. Yaro Retribution of Scyrah 4 (19.0)(15)(435)
18. Skapa Khador 4 (18.0)(5)(425)
19. Orkish Cryx 4 (17.0)(19)(275)
20. Petero Cygnar 4 (17.0)(7)(344)
21. TadeuszCZ Khador 3 (22.0)(17)(345)
22. Fryta Cygnar 3 (21.0)(14)(248)
23. Ven Protectorate of Menoth 3 (21.0)(12)(423)
24. Mefiu Cygnar 3 (20.0)(5)(298)
25. MłodySzkapa Retribution of Scyrah 3 (19.0)(17)(368)

>>48566416
26. Krawat Mercenaries 3 (19.0)(6)(378)
27. Scull Skorne 3 (19.0)(5)(302)
28. Melfist Cryx 3 (18.0)(20)(167)
29. Olaf Khador 3 (18.0)(9)(296)
30. Shept Convergence of Cyriss 3 (18.0)(9)(264)
31. Maestro Khador 3 (18.0)(9)(245)
32. Puchan Protectorate of Menoth 3 (17.0)(0)(298)
33. Kevin Trollbloods 3 (15.0)(13)(225)
34. Kondzioro Minions 3 (15.0)(7)(371)
35. Młody Trollbloods 3 (14.0)(16)(450)
36. Torres Cygnar 3 (14.0)(9)(389)
37. Szugi Retribution of Scyrah 3 (13.0)(3)(267)
38. DW Cygnar 3 (12.0)(7)(299)
39. Matias Protectorate of Menoth 2 (23.0)(9)(354)
40. Bart Protectorate of Menoth 2 (19.0)(20)(396)
41. Utes Skorne 2 (19.0)(11)(205)
42. DaGreenBoy Trollbloods 2 (19.0)(1)(197)
43. Krissos Cryx 2 (18.0)(3)(237)
44. Fluffy Mercenaries 2 (18.0)(3)(171)
45. Konee Skorne 2 (17.0)(11)(338)
46. Artein Trollbloods 2 (15.0)(15)(255)
47. Czarny Trollbloods 2 (15.0)(8)(189)
48. VituS Retribution of Scyrah 2 (15.0)(6)(329)
49. Kruker Circle Orboros 2 (14.0)(10)(246)
50. Rasti Circle Orboros 2 (14.0)(6)(276)
51. Solo Cryx 2 (11.0)(1)(260)
52. Lenczek Trollbloods 2 (10.0)(15)(300)
53. Necromanter Cryx 1 (17.0)(7)(239)
54. Mart Khador 1 (17.0)(5)(183)
55. Dzuki Protectorate of Menoth 1 (15.0)(6)(219)
56. Kfarganus Cygnar 1 (14.0)(0)(161)
57. Urban Minions 1 (12.0)(6)(241)
58. Shaysome Skorne 0 (13.0)(10)(205)

>>48566389
Trenches went from useless to one if, if not the best, front line unit in the faction.

>>48563634
Cryx has buzzsaws though.

>>48565999

If it was WWI wouldn't it be much more about static gunlines and taking pot shots at each other from trenches?

I think part of my issue with it is there isn't a whole heap of ways for ranged forces to disengage for shooting combined with just how damn long charge ranges are. You can genuinely out-charge a shotgun.

But then, Trenchers were my first unit I ever painted up and I've had a lot of bad experiances with 'Oh look, I brought a metric shit-tone of stealth. Your ranged guys are useless unless they hit hard enough to hurt my jacks'

>>48563634
Khador's Decimator has a Buzz Saw and a Revolver Cannon.

>>48567064

Stormtrooper shit aside, there's warnouns. Advancing behind the tanks and stuff.

Now why aren't I doing that...

>oh yeah, skorne heavies are slow as shit and cyclops are outperformed by individual infantry grunts

>>48566416
If folks have the actual lists available in some format and it's not an annoyance, please email a copy to [email protected]. I'm working on a tournament list display setup, and a couple of features for importing lists from other formats or quick entry of lists into CC.

Also, Steamroller dual lists should be in pretty soon.

>>48566389

Trenchers are now incredible

Looking for Into the Storm novel in pdf (File from OP does not work). Could someone share it please?

>>48565859
>Cygnar
>The only real shame is that some of the auto-include force multipliers have been nerfed. But they were pretty overpowered anyway and weren't used as intended to begin with, so it's more than fair.
Cygnar's auto-include force multipliers did get nerfed, but for every one that got taken away another was added. The new GMCA is an example that springs to mind.

Does anyone know how much the gencon casters will cost and what time they will be on the site?

>>48568585
$25

>>48566416
> Two circle players in top three.

They had wormwood and Boulder, didn't they?

>>48567064
Well, it's more of a specific flavour of WWI than an actual WWI recreation. Hence the "into the breach" bit. It's all about the moment you storm the trenches, not the boring artillery bombardments and having your feet nibbled on by rats. And you know, robots, zombies and wizards.

Also, trench warfare was a fairly small part of specific WWI theaters (read: western Europe) that has been overemphasized afterwards because it was where the Brits and Americans were deployed.

>>48567701
Way too good, in my humble opinion. They get solid stats for both melee and ranged (and an amazing support solo that gets both to an elite level), good guns, Assault, a free Dig In order, Smoke Bombs, Tough, all for less than a lot of other factions get units that do one of those things as well for.

Naked Trenchers are arguably the best point-for-point ranged unit in the game. With their UA and Solos, they're the best by far.

They're a WGDS that doesn't rely on a silly, easily countered gimmick to survive. Then again, at least they're still not MKII Errants/MHSF.

File: 1461342882009.png (86KB, 510x546px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 510x546px

Why do you guys never post pictures of your models? Do you hate painting that much? Why not just play with empty bases and cardboard cut outs?

I'm going to be expanding my Cryx army and am looking for recommendations, here's what I have:

Gaspy1
Denny1

Stalker
Deathjack
Cankerworm
Defiler x2
Deathripper x2
Nightwretch x2

Bane Knights
Bane Warriors +UA
Mechanothralls
Necrosurgeon

Pistol Wraith x2
Skarlock Thrall
Bane Lord Tartarus
Withershadow

I'm planning on getting Venethrax, a Goreshade, and maybe Denny 2 and Terminus. For Warjacks definitely a seether/inflictor, more character jacks (erebus and malice primarily) along with a slayer/reaper/corruptor kit, probably a crabjack, and a shrike (even if they aren't that great). I'm also thinking about grabbing a bloat thrall along with Mobius and an Iron Lich Overseer

File: 20160425_230446.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>48570128

I did a massive stripping of my models, so a lot of them are bare right now.

Here's one for you anon.

File: 20160425_230143.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>48570192

And here's the last one I got on me.

Sorry in advance for the file sizes.

>>48568757
1st place was Baldur1 and Tanith
2nd place was Magnus2 and Ossrum
3rd place was Krueger1 and Wurmwood

>>48565836
http://www.discountgamesinc.com/tournaments

Just look at all that Sloane

Its almost like /tg/ is shit at this game and just parots what the loudest mouth breather said

>>48570128
I spend a lot of time that would go to painting models writing conflictchamber instead.

Because, unlike painting, I'm actually good at programming.

File: IDcqKWYgif.gif (8MB, 435x305px) Image search: [Google]

8MB, 435x305px

>>48565836
Sloan is just a worst Haley1 now. Not worth the hype

>>48570394
>all dem jack/artillery lists
Are... are we finally playing Warmachine?

File: terrain.jpg (78KB, 960x718px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 960x718px

>>48570128

The camera ran out of juice =(

>>48570394
The big deal was that the rumored change to her feat was far worse than what we got.

>>48570394
P Haley didn't see tourney play, but doesn't mean that she wasn't cancer mkii.

Tourney stats only show what players are good and general meta trends.

Sloan is still very polarizing matchupwise and turn 1 shots were not ok.

>>48570188
Bloat thrall+mobious yes.
Iron lich overseer hell no

If you get one helljack just turn it into erebus.

Wait for the inflicter kit get like 3 of those.
Consider nightmare
definatly get venethrax
i wouldnt get terminus
consider lich3

Satyxis are great, bloodwitches better imo
nyss are great
wrong eye is great
darragh wraith is great
bane knights work better in pairs

>>48570188
Also get scaverous he might be the best in the faction

Tell me where my menoth now stand.

From the looks of it Jacks are king, Flame Bringers are a thing and Errants are now dead.

Give it to me straight: Kreoss is usless now isn't he :'(

>>48570394
Yeah! Three whole lists! Surely this is the new world order! I mean, it's not like the melee Khador casters see way more action and wins!

>>48570936
Scaverous would work reall well with the withershadow combine, yes? Is there anything else that would be good to take to take advantage of his feat? Are Skarlock Commanders and Sirens the only ones outside of WC attachments that can make use of it? Or is it really just there for himself?

>>48570962
Errants aren't dead. They're just not flat out broken gods.

>>48570458
You're doing Menoth's work and no one would have it otherwise. Except maybe dirt and tree worshippers

Or are you part of Convergence...

>>48570863
You're an idiot. Haley1 saw plenty of tournament play in Mk2 and was one of the best casters in Cygnar. Do not remember double colossal lists with her? It was brutal.

Sloan is pretty meh now. She's easy to play for noobies and that's about it. Only reason she's not bottom tier is because she's a Cygnar caster with access to good shooting jacks

>>48570962
pKreoss can still meme people to death.

>>48571395
I've actually played mostly Menoth in Mk3, so I supposed I'm doing Menoth's work pretty directly.

>>48570962
Harby got neutered. Bastions got nerfed. Errants got nerfed but are still good.

Amon is S-tier.

All of our heavy jacks are playable, and most of them are good.

Idrians are probably our best infantry now.

>>48570128
Fuck, don't I wish.

I miss Battletech, where no one gave a shit about models.

>>48571441
While I wouldn't go that far, I'd say she's kind of the Snipe Feat Go of Mk3. A simple direct battle plan supported by very strong pieces that's hard to prevent unless you happen to have hard counters in your list.

If anything speaks to ranged supremacy in Mk3, it's the fact Khador is consistently doing so well with lists that often seem to include at least one unit of Winter Guard Riflemen with max Rocketeers.

>>48571631
I mean, the problem with WGR is that you bring them with Irusk2, who can also make them POW11 weaponmasters, gives them tough no knockdown, and trivial cover in an edition when getting def buffs isn't supposed to be so easy anymore.

File: Scaverous1_75 (1).png (159KB, 421x509px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 421x509px

>>48571037
I was going to run something like this tomorrow as a test. Usually I have been runing 30 bane knights, 1 arcnode, dw, dj and blt w/ a scarlok

I dont really build him with his feat in mind, honestly

>>48571839
What do you like about knights over warriors? Do you like Vengence that much?

>>48572029
Warriors are slow and expensive. Knights have higher arm, and are 4" faster

Warriors are just trashy now, sorry

>>48571839
No Erebus? What is this heresy?

Not trolling or anything, but how will this whole living rules thing work out in practice? Because if shit gets updated every three to four months, I'm not sure I feel all that good about paying for unit rules. I mean, if my cards will need up to date pdfs to amend them, then what's the point of the cards to begin with? And if you're including them for free with the models anyway, why not make the model rules free so players can make informed decisions about purchases ahead of time since you don't technically have to buy Forces of books or Faction Decks? I still need the models to play the game, after all, so it's not like the stat cards are the main reason I make a purchase. Plus the hassle of ordering a model that's been in storage for a long time and have outdated cards (I remember getting a MkI Morvahna in like 2013). I know PP was originally a publishing company, but it just seems like a hassle that will just invite piracy since the collectors will pre-order models and thus get the rules with the model while likely buying the books as well, and the people who want to see the full rules before committing to a purchase will find ways to see the stat cards anyway and just end up pissed they have to jump through hurdles to find out if they want to buy a model in the first place.

Will they be releasing model rules for free as well, or will this be a weird late MkII deal where the basic rules are free but model rules cost? Because with the added stipulation of a living rules document, the latter option seems pretty goddamn dumb and a good way to piss off the fanbase.

>>48572072
>Warriors are slow and expensive.
Same speed and same cost as Knights.

>Knights have higher arm
By one point, not gonna same them against a good shot or solid blast.

>and are 4" faster
I'll give you the 2" reach is a nice benefit, Vengence would only come into play if something got damaged in the last round, and if you needed that 3" of movement that means you'd being shot at and you're likely going to have several knights during that shooting phase.

>Warriors are just trashy now, sorry
I highly disagree. Warriors can be regenerated very easily with the UA's mini feat which will let you pick up the slack from getting shot from last round. Knights have to rely on the nerfed BLT who supports warriors equally well. And warriors do considerably more damage and support other models with Dark Shroud. Plus they're just about equally tanky to Knights (15 ARM vs 16 ARM)

>>48572196
Cards are a trap, don't buy them unless you're prepared to have to print errata or pick up one of the update packs later

WHY ARE GOOD RANGED UNITS ALSO SOLID IN MELEE

MY MELEE UNITS DON'T HAVE A GUN SO WHY CAN YOURS CUT MINE TO RIBBONS FOR THE SAME POINT COST

>>48573597
Because different factions have different strengths and weaknesses?

>>48573660
A UNIT THAT'S GOOD AT EVERYTHING HAS NO WEAKNESSES

>>48573710
What unit are you talking about?

>>48573909
FUCKING

INVICTORS

>>48572177
I find he has more synergy with venethrax or terminus. The majority of soul collecting comes from the units. Of course you could take erebus and croes if you cut DW and DJ, wich is another option.

>>48572376
Yes, this is cryx. I have no illusion that any unit will reach the enemy intact. Vengence often comes into play and it continues to come into play even after the initial charge. Against gunlines speed is more important than ever

Being arm16 is nice if i want to have 2 arm 18 units on the board, wich should survive pow10 shooting long been the bane of cryx

Warriors are 23 points if you want to pull off the ua trick, but with infantry the way it is, it seems superflous. If I need dark shoud I usually bring ragmang.

What jacks are ideal to take with Junior and/or Jakes, or are they a trap pick now with the "must have a warjack attached" rule?

File: Just_Kill_Me_Now.png (202KB, 863x431px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 863x431px

>tfw Mk3 starters still not restocked
I seriously regret not preordeing.

>>48573923
They're a generalist unit, sure, but not exactly amazing.

They can get outshot, what with being RNG10 and SPD5, and they're not tough enough to outfight dedicated melee units.

Sure, that mini feat is nice for them, but that's one turn of good range shooting.

Full unit + UA is also 20 points, which is fairly pricy for a single unit. Even full WGRC + 3 Rockets is only 19 points

>>48573991
Depends on the faction, but a shooting jack that doesn't need a ton of support or a support jack that can play second line(a shield guard jack, for example) are two good choices.

>>48574011
INVICTORS HAVE ASSAULT

YOU CAN MAKE YOUR ASSAULT SHOT EVEN IF YOU FAIL YOUR CHARGE

WHICH MEANS THEY'RE SPD8

File: 1459445977486.png (122KB, 439x443px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 439x443px

>>48569017
Cygnar-fag here. Yeah, the Trenchers are amazing. That said
>with UA and solos, they're the best by far

With UA and solos, Winter Guard Rifle Corps are a bit better. The rocketeers are fucking amazing and being able to buff their hit rolls on those fucking rifles is insane. They don't need much input to do some amazing things. Also if you take a page out of Tom Guan's playbook, the removal of character restrictions means you can have the entire WGRC + Joe package in any of your lists. You are gonna see a lot of those fuckers.

>>48574081
And? If they're assaulting, they're losing Wall of Steel, most likely, or creating really weird setups.

Plus Assault shots can't CRA, so they lose their rerolls and all the other benefits of CRA.

>>48574075
>asking about Cygnar Journeyman Casters
>"Depends on the Faction"

>>48570383
Yup. 3 years of playtesting and I just know who the winning warlocks are.

>>48574259
I read that as Jakes or the other Juniors, not the Junior specifically.

Charger is the best on the Junior, I believe, I dunno about Jakes.

>>48574277
I mean, the meta is developing. Like, in a year if that shit is still going then it will be an obvious problem, but right now it's hard to call anything for certain.

>>48573923
>>48573710
Better shooting? Continuous effects? Not being a scrub? Faster melee troops? Using terrain?

>>48574334
>Better shooting? Continuous effects? Not being a scrub? Faster melee troops? Using terrain?
I play Skorne. The only one of those I have access to is terrain.

>>48574430
>I play Skorne
Well, there's your first problem. Stop doing that

Second, try using venators, or incindiary, or use the cat dudes as a jamming unit. You got some options

>>48574430
Reives. You out threat him both with base and mini-feat, Reposition means that even with his mini-feat he's going to struggle to get you, and if he assaults, he needs to roll hard sevens to hit.

>>48574636
>venators
I'd rather not resort to trying to outshoot actual shooting factions.
>incindiarii
They became unplayable in Mk3. People aren't using enough infantry for the fire blobs to matter, they lost DEF, they lost ARM, they lost boxes, they went from 9 to 18 points. Like, points weren't even doubled for Mk3, they were slightly less than doubled. So Incindiarii actually cost MORE now after all their nerfs.
>ferox
HAHAHA

OH MAN

THIS GUY

PAAAAHAHAHAHA

What I'm thinking of doing right now is getting a unit of Bloodrunners to experiment with. 9 points for 6 dudes with stealth that can drop infantry relatively easily. They get in safely because of stealth, drop your guys, then reposition 3" to tie up the rest of the unit. Sure they might die after that, but a unit of Invictus that's been reduced to 4 guys isn't very scary. I sort of want to get Morghoul2 as well just to ensure kills on units like that with his feat. Maybe bring an Archidon for the Sprint feat, or even Molik Karn for Reposition 5.

>>48574793
Then play Makeda1 and have piles of shield guards. Ferox are good, Bloodrunners are still trash.

Regardless, you're still playing Skorne. The only real options available to you are to embrace the suffering or quit

>>48574901
I actually really like Makeda1. Her feat is garbage as FUCK now, but Quicken is a really nice spell, and Subjugation of Will is much stronger than everyone gives it credit for. Then you get to run Molik Karn. Just a shame Carnage does nothing for Reivers or I'd actually consider getting some. You shouldn't dismiss Bloodrunners though. They lost Shadow Play, but gained CMA, Apparition, Reposition 3, and Anatomical Precision was buffed to go through Tough. And they went from 5 to 9 points.

>>48574901
>bloodrunners trash

Man, Skorne is the wild west right now. Folks just doing and saying whatever they want.

>>48575050
You can feat back Scarab Packs now, which are shield guards with Makeda1 and they only cost 10 for 4

>>48575153
But they're fucking awful. And sure I could run Zaadesh to try and polish the turd they are, but now it's at 14 points. I'd rather just bring a Gladiator honestly. Or spend 3 more on a Cannoneer because that thing ACTUALLY deals with ranged units.

>>48575237
Yes, they're terrible. You're only taking them for super cheap shield guards.

>>48575237
I don't think they are with Makeda1.

They're cheap, decently resilient to shooting, and don't require much to do what they do with her.

>>48574636

Ferox...

Well, they're expensive (while in both senses of the word, it averages out at least). So if you're playing Ferox, *you're playing ferox*. First thing you should do is think up a list pair if the other guy has an easy time dealing with ferox, because that list is *done*.

>>48573923

Moar Karax until Enuff Karax is achieved, anon.

Anybody have NQ 67 yet? It's not in the op

>>48575544

new.vk <dot> com / doc34805648_437754782?hash=6459541cede4bfe0bb&dl=bb2da8ec7bd3b534d1

>>48575064

I think it's more that people have now adapted to the knowledge that they're only ever going to run into two kinds of single-wound-infantry now: high armor or stealth/def/blast immune. They'll have plans to wipe either off the table so they had better be numerous and cheap.

>>48575473
I'd rather jam with a max unit of Handlers.

>>48575661

Karax are cheaper! Girded, too. And you just implied that you had Beast Handlers to waste in mk3, are you sure you play skorne?

>>48575687
I've honestly found 4 Handlers to be plenty for managing my fury. Handlers just happem to be cheap, SPD6, RNG2, and have Anatomical Precision.

>>48575748
And whenever I'm bringing a herd, I make sure to have a Bronzeback in there because that leadership ability is actually pretty sweet. Sure they couldn't frenzy in Mk2, but the fury stayed on them. Now he actually helps bring their fury back down while ensuring you can transfer damage to any non-Bronzeback.

>>48575748

You can't grind out Karax, though. Not for cheap.

>>48575834
11 points is a lot of points to simply buy time though. And Invictus will still blow them off the table from 14" away. Sure you can run next turn to tie some up, but Invictus will melt them in melee too. I don't think it's worth flat out losing 11 points to hold a 16 point unit at bay for 2 turns.

>>48575590
Thank you!

Scrub here, trying to figure something out. So having a shield protects you a bit from the fire that's currently engulfing you? I never found a very clear answer to this, only that because the fire doesn't originate from the back arc, you get a shield bonus...which is kind of stupid.

>>48577465
What are you talking about?

>>48577505

Whoops, left stuff out. Do you get a bonus from buckler/shields against damage caused by the continuous fire effect.

>>48577465

imagine a guy with a flamethrower spewed fire at 2 robots. one has a shield and holds it up to block the stream of fire, the other doesnt and entire body is lit on fire

in the first case, the robots still on fire, but at least part of that fire is on its shield and maybe just the arm behind the shield. so we can assume its not being damaged as badly as the one who had zero protection


No, warmachine situations dont always make 100% sense, but you have to use some imagination to interpret the game

>>48577465
Yes, it does.

One of the big Mk3 changes is that Shield Wall doesn't expire until the unit activates, so the +4 ARM will still apply.

>>48571441

you realise one of cygnars best players has been regularily playing haley2/sloan as his pairing right?

What does legion do about an armor skew outside of running Angelius? I hate the idea of "staples" in a list, but I'm currently doing journeyman league, and khador just laughs at pretty much everything I try to do.

>>48577941
You're running Kyrssa, I assume?

Her feat should be the armor cracking you need, really.

>>48578146

Well I got bolt thrower he's pretty good at
>Kozlov Grants steads

Well neraph with buff might can kill
>I either one round one of the heavies, then get wrecked by the other next turn, i don't, get rekked the next turn, and the remaining heavy is still good enough to slap all my other stuff around

Can't really circle around to get the caster with the neraph, the shredders are shite unless i can tie up something with the neraph first, or waste 1 shredder to get another shredder in the fray.

Then there's kozlov. He pretty much massacred anything close to him during his activation as well.

I'm enjoying games against the other boxes, but man playing against khador is rough.

>>48577530
Shields and bucklers only give their bonus for damage originating in their front arc. Damage from continuous effects has no point of origin, so no shield/buckler bonus.

anyone know if Convergence is getting a mk 3 battlebox?

>>48578447
An actual box?

No.

But it's Syntherion, Monitor, Diffuser, Galvanizer.

>>48578404

You got that bass-ackwards, anon. Shields only fail to give their bonus for damage originating in their BACK arc. Continuous effects have no point of origin, so always shield/buckler (and shieldwall for that matter) bonus.

Mind your angles when lightning starts arcing, though. Perfect lines.

>>48578960

They should fix that. I guess with proper mental gymnastics you can explain why that fire that's been eating you alive for 3 turns and is about to kill you is still able to be blocked by a shield, but getting a shield bonus by blocking an arc of electricity with a metal shield is kind of potato tier.

>Pyg Bushwhackers are 15 fucking points
>They're still RAT 4
>Only special rules are Tough and CRA
>In a faction with no fucking RAT buffs
WHY?

>>48579019
There's no reason to explain it, it's a game mechanic.

Sometimes mechanics don't make sense for balance.

>>48579019
>getting a shield bonus by blocking an arc of electricity with a metal shield is kind of potato tier

Why? Sure, maybe it wouldn't help against the electric shock but surely it would do something to protect against the heat by absorbing the thermal energy.

>>48579019
This is a D&D setting, the shields could straight up have magical protection.

niggas ill suck a dick if anyone has new spoilers on any of the Jrs grown up

>>48579928
They're dropping this weekend, so wait until then

>>48579752
>It's a D&D setting
>implying every setting is filled with "it's magic I ain't gotta explain shit" garbage.
It's not a D&D setting, it just used D20 system back when it first came out because it was easy to get licensing for.

>>48580291
Got aiakos?

Know what, Cryx crybabies? Fuck you, really. Check the goddamned Slayer, just do it SP6 MAT7 3 initials, combo strike. On top of that 13 Def 17ARM. All for 10 points.
And you dare whinning about your fucking banes. Shit you could field TONS of jacks and that would be totally fucking fine because those are ridiculously strong.
Shit, just check the Venethrax. He is like fucking Amon, but thanks to feat is rather more powerfull. Fuck son how dare they being a crybabies.

>>48580502
>PS, english is not my first language

Is the subduer worth taking ever, or should i just take more wreckers?

>>48566416
>>48566426
>not a single legion player
>multiple skorne players who actually did reasonable
interdesting

>>48579242
Special rules are tough and CRA
In a Faction with no fucking RAT buffs
tough and CRA
no fucking RAT buffs
CRA
no RAT buffs
CRA

Huh. I mean, that's one way to look at it.

>>48581517
>having to pick between volume and quality of attacks
Literally Skornergy: the rule

File: 1468853400325.png (1MB, 1160x930px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1160x930px

>>48581577
Come on

>>48574334
>Terrain
Really only makes shooting worse. It prevents melee units from getting to melee and the benefits it provides are ahrdly worth mentioning.

>>48573991
>Junior
Sentinel, Charger, Hunter, Firefly
>Jakes
Gallant, Dynamo, Thunderhead (though I find him meh), Stormclad, Rowdy, 2xHunter, 2x Charger (both with pHaley preferably)

>>48574636
>cat dudes as a jamming unit
They cost 21p for 5 dudes. They cannot jam.

>>48580151

Well, no. It kinda is.

It wasn't generic D20 system. It was D&D 3e.

>>48571037
Cephalyx Overlords get work out of his feat big time, I'd probably run two units with him.

>>48572376
>Warriors can be regenerated very easily with the UA's mini feat
Magical Christmas Land, that UA will never reach enemy warrior models unless you're running an Occultation caster, then maybe if you're lucky, maybe. It might also make it if your opponent is a fucking scrub, but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

.>Plus they're just about equally tanky to Knights (15 ARM vs 16 ARM)
15 vs 16 is actually extremely significant, it represents a 14% increase in survivability against POW10 shooting.

>>48579019
It's called an abstraction, you autistic motherfucker. Just like how the game is supposed to simulate a real battle rather than dudes literally standing still and letting the enemy whack them until it's their turn, the shield stuff might represent using it to redirect an attack somehow. Maybe it is made out of a material with poor conductivity? Maybe he uses it as a lightning rod to ground the electricity and mitigate the damage? Maybe he lets go of it just before the lightning bolt hits it? Or maybe it's just a rule in a game designed to be balanced?

>>48582475

A wooden shield would likely deal with the electricity well.

>>48581517
I guess it depends on your definition of a RAT buff. Mine was a buff to the base stat rather than CRA, but point taken. Still, other factions get units for fewer points with CRA, RAT 5, AND access to outside RAT/ranged attack buffs. I know you can't really directly compare units between factions that way, but at the very least I should be able to look at other ranged units within the faction and make comparisons. And Highwaymen are so much better it's not even funny.

They probably should've been priced more like Kossites, who are comparable in terms of stats and roles.

>>48579019
>Cetrati should have to face continuous fire at 16ARM
Hey buddy how about fuck you.

Morghoul2 as an anti-Warmachine warlock?

>Feat
Shuts down gunlines because infantry can't shake blinds like nouns can
>Stealth
More anti-gunline abilities
>Flashing Blade
Non-linear assassination tool or infantry melter
>Flesh Hooks
Lets you alpha their heavies
>Ghost Walk
Lets your shit walk into back arcs

I tried him a while ago but was basing him off pure assassinations. I think he has general game though. I'd probably bring Molik Karn for the animus.

(Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Molik Karn [20]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]

>>48582948

>Feat
Useless against warjacks, only effects a 10" bubble around him and because of it being useless against warjacks there are many infantry its suicide to try to use it on. Try using it on a sorscha1 gunline, see what happens.

You can't even get in range of a sloan gunline with 17" of movement lol

>Stealth
Kara Sloan says hello

>Flashing Blade
"infantry melter" RNG1
okay.jpg

>Flesh hooks
a shitty version of stranglehold that all the real warcasters and warlocks get. Even the assassins like thyra

>Ghost walk
Then you aren't charging


hes trash. he can't even assassinate anymore. he needed shadow whip badly

>>48583134

Positive charge and lightning storm is expected

Escort replacing energiser is completely awesome. bullet dodger is also a nice spell.

whats her feat?

>>48583127
>Muh Sloan
Literally all of your abilities are tied up in anti-Stealth shit. I mean boo fucking hoo one of my abilities is countered by your entire list of abilities. Sloan is literally the textbook "vulnerable to Morg2 assassination" caster. She wants to spend her focus and come in close enough to shoot. Nigger I'm all OVER that shit. Infact really I should just remove the Bronzeback from that and put Marketh in with a bunch of other fun stuff.

>>48583206
(Morghoul 2) Lord Assassin Morghoul [+29]
- Molik Karn [20]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Aptimus Marketh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]

>>48583206

you realise she has refuge and can shoot and then walk away to leave her 22" away from what she shot right?

>>48583127
He actually got worse in mk3. And not just in the theme force loss:

>Traded Arcane Assassin passive for Blessed on Mercy - now the fan lacks Blessed
>Lost Elite Cadre [Paingivers]
>Lost Perfect Balance for Steady - can now be hit by CMAs/CRAs/Back Strikes - no longer gives this to Paingivers
>Traded Silence of Death for Flesh Hooks - Silence was buffed to also add +2 STR so what was good was traded away for a shitty nuke

If he kept Silence of Death, you could argue he is more of an infantry support caster - not necessarily a good one - but he'd have a more defined role than what he is now because as it stands he's just a shitty assassin. And there is no excuse for this when in late Mk2 they built Butcher3 and Makeda3 who each weathered the edition change well and play more active roles on the field.

>>48580851

Yeah, as a Legion player this has me worried.

I'm hoping it's just the pros figuring still figuring shit out and not the faction sucking dick.

>>48583257
With the change to Anatomical Precision and the other buffs Bloodrunners got, I don't really see losing Silence of Death as that big of a deal. He himself gained Greivous Wounds too. Damage buffs are nice but meh, it's not like he technically LOST anything, he just didn't gain anything. He got his feat back from Mk1 too. And nigguh you undervalue depriving enemy nouns of 3" movement.

>>48564190

>Nietzchean

...? I don't know that I've heard of any plans they have to attack or murder any gods, or any theories about the lack of spirituality in the universe or anything like it. I mean... do we actually know anything about them at all?

>>48583410
This is completely off topic, but goddamn does it annoy me when people don't get Nietzsche. God is dead is not literally a statement about YHWH being murdered.

>>48583528

Yeah, it's about constructing your own set of values in the absence of religious ones. As without religion there is no divine order to follow.

So what's the deal with Convergence of Cyriss? They seem to have a lot less stuff than the other factions to the point where most people at my FLGS forget they exist.

>>48583743

they're about half a faction and don't ever get new releases, except the one time they did get one and everyone laughed at it

>>48583743

They are not a full faction but also not mercs. They sit in an awkward area.

They'd have likely have been better as a merc group rather than a sorta-faction sorta not.

>>48583743
>So what's the deal with Convergence of Cyriss? They seem to have a lot less stuff than the other factions to the point where most people at my FLGS forget they exist.
>They are not a full faction but also not mercs. They sit in an awkward area.
So, the thing with CoC is that, while they have fewer total models to choose from, almost everything they can take is good to great... to the point that the number of real, competitive options available to them is comparable to many other factions. You can play them for a long, long time before you get bored.

>>48583410
>Cephalyx
>..? I don't know that I've heard of any plans they have to attack or murder any gods, or any theories about the lack of spirituality in the universe or anything like it. I mean... do we actually know anything about them at all?
I think the poster meant to invoke Nietzsche in the sense that the Cephalyx are ubermench, etc. It's not a perfect comparison. We did actually get quite a bit of insight into the Cephalyx and their society in the last few books / campaigns.

>>48583528
I suspect this is less a problem with people who don't understand Nietzsche than it is with people who haven't read him.

>>48583382
>With the change to Anatomical Precision and the other buffs Bloodrunners got, I don't really see losing Silence of Death as that big of a deal. He himself gained Greivous Wounds too. Damage buffs are nice but meh, it's not like he technically LOST anything, he just didn't gain anything. He got his feat back from Mk1 too. And nigguh you undervalue depriving enemy nouns of 3" movement.
Not gaining anything is pretty damning when Morgoul2 was the worst warlock in Mk2. And for the record, he absolutely did not "get his feat back from Mk1". Blind can be shaken now... so despite the similar wording, it's not even close to the same thing. That's like saying Denny2's feat was the same before and after the errata last summer.

>>48580543
I wont admit it and wont disagree if someone will point out at it.
MAYBE I AM MEXICAN WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME?

But really. After checking all that stuff i am seriously thinking about playing Cryx. Bane Warriors, Slayer spam, Venethrax. Fun and choppy.
Oh and undead pirates on top of that. What can go wrong after all lol?
Actually i am thinking of buying Cryx boxes and stuff while previously i thought of trolls one.

>>48584066
That is also a complete misunderstanding of the concept of übermensch. Simply put, an übermensch is a man who is not restrained in his thinking by conventions and traditions, but rather rises above such things in order to innovate and progress. The idea of the übermensch is someone who rejects otherworldly notions of religion and tradition. The common association of a superior physical specimen is from the later, mainly Nazi, corruption of his ideas to fit their notion of Aryan genetic supremacy. But the original concept of the übermensch was a rational, atheistic man who rejected all preconceived notions in favor of emprirically established facts and free thinking.

In other words, the closest thing WarmaHordes has to an übermensch would be someone like Mordikaar, who breaks with tradition and cultural taboos in order to objectively determine the nature of the next world, or the Seekers, who don't jump to conclusions like the Retribution, but rather try to find proof of what happened for themselves. Then again, the concept of an übermensch wouldn't really work in Immoren, seeing as how stuff like gods, spirituality and magic are objective facts and some of the gods have cryptic riddles, mysteries and legends as part of their portfolio. Hell, the Convergence, who at surface would seem like übermensch are actually the exact opposite since they're all about dogmatic adherence to established rules and indoctrination. Some of the unaffiliated Cyricissists might count, though.

>>48579242
Yeah, they should either be 8/14 points with a 4 point UA or should go up to RAT 5. It's been over a decade and they haven't gotten any better, though, so I really guess they do well in PP's internal meta, or something.

>>48584882
I guess you could claim that between a 14 inch range and Bushwhack, they could shoot and scoot well outside of enemy threat ranges. Unfortunately their shooting is so ineffective that there's really no win condition there, and their cost is so high that they actively need to contribute to your victory somehow rather than just be an annoyance piece slowly whittling the enemy down.

>>48584139
Cryx isnt bad I wouldn't field either bane warriors or slayers though. Or the pirates. Bane Knights remain the better bane and the Inflictor is just too sexy and only 3 points more

>>48584767
Wouldn't Thamarites be the closest thing then? Or did they read the other High School standbye, Atlas Shrugged

>>48585006
Thamarites are addicted to mysteries, secrets and weird shit. Hell, their goddess may or may not be responsible for sorcery and is well-known for handing out weird puzzles and esoteric riddles.

Not to mention that adhering to any divine dogma, even one about not being restricted by morals and shit, is kind of contrary to Nietzschian nihilism. It's a philosophy that can't really be applied to a setting with magic and objective divinity, since one of the big points in Also Sprach Zarathustra is that there's no point in being religious in an age where man has all the tools necessary to find answers for himself rather than putting his trust to a god to answer them for him.

>>48580851

The people that complain about Skorne play Skorne, anon. It's not that strange of a thing.

If they jumped factions, they'd shut up about it.

>>48580851
>multiple skorne players who actually did reasonable
Skorne's best came in 13th, that's dogshit.

Legion not showing up doesn't surprise me, they were the big dogs in Mk2 and being taken down a peg or twenty doesn't feel good. Skorne has always sucked ass so it's not like anything fundamentally changed for them.

>>48584979
Slayers are pretty good. At 10 points they cost next to nothing for a Heavy and can really punch above their weight. I've managed to fit one into every Mk3 game I've played thus far and been rarely disappointed - it's always taken out something more valuable before being destroyed.

>>48585282
I'm going to chock that up to whoever you're playing not understanding how to deal with Cryx jacks yet. The inherent problem of the Slayer hasn't gone away, their arms still explode if someone so much as looks at them funny.

>>48585296
There's nothing really wrong with the Slayer. It's ten points. Treat it like the glorified Bonejack it's supposed to be and you're fine. It's not the best Cryx option, but it's far from bad.

>>48585296
Yes and no. I won't pretend my group is especially competitive, and we've only been playing once a week for about eight months. But between the increased amount of terrain on the board and Necrotechs no longer needing to make skill tests to repair things, it hasn't been too difficult to keep them from falling to bits.

Generally I hold it back and send it in as part of the second wave via Ghost Walk rather than throwing it straight down the opponent's neck, which also reduces the amount of fire it's taking.

conflictanon here. I just realized that somehow I managed to push a feature to the live site without telling anyone about it.

Ctrl-shift-C copies a version of the current list to the clipboard marked up in BBCode.

Been kicking around a Scaverous list that focuses on jacks and armor cracking with some oomph for feat turn.

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

http://conflictchamber.com/#b41b1B1E4vffff1Lgj1Lgj15120P0P0P12gs

(Scaverous 1) Lord Exhumator Scaverous [+27]
- Erebus [16]
- The Withershadow Combine [9]
- Deathripper [6]
- Deathripper [6]
Iron Lich Overseer [5]
- Seether [13]
Iron Lich Overseer [5]
- Seether [13]
Darragh Wrathe [9]
Warwitch Siren [4]
Necrotech [2]
- Scrap Thrall
Necrotech [2]
- Scrap Thrall
Necrotech [2]
- Scrap Thrall
Warwitch Siren [4]
Mechanithralls (min) [6]

File: nemo3pic.jpg (506KB, 695x900px) Image search: [Google]

506KB, 695x900px

How's this for my week5 Cygnar Journeyman list? In week 6 I'll be adding in Stormmisths and a GCMA

Cygnar Army - 65 / 65 points

[URL="http://conflictchamber.com/#b111eJ61chc9cUc-bMem"]Conflict Chamber link[/URL]

[INDENT][B](Nemo 3)[/B] Artificer General Nemo [B][+25][/B][LIST][*]Storm Chaser Adept Caitlin Finch
[*]Dynamo [B][18][/B]
[*]Ironclad [B][12][/B]
[*]Lancer [B][10][/B]
[/LIST]Storm Lances ([I]max[/I]) [B][20][/B]
Journeyman Warcaster [B][4][/B][LIST][*]Firefly [B][8][/B]
[/LIST]Storm Strider [B][18][/B]
[/INDENT]

>>48585446
welp, that came out all retarded.

Nemo3
-dynamo
-ironclad
-lancer
Max Stormlances
Junior
-firefly
Stormstrider

>>48585462
Yeah, BBCode is primarily for the PP forums. Honestly, I'm not sure if there's anywhere else it's useful, but it's a place WMH discussion happens.

>>48585335
Imo, its never the right jack for the job.

>>48585282 is right. The reason people don't like slayer is because of its trashy grid. Its like the only heavy thst is actually threatened by pow10 shooting.


The inflictor aliveates the armless problem by being arm19, and has reach. I'd even argue thst with countrrcharge the seether can close quicker. The harrower has better clearing potential, if expensive

If every slayer had def14 then I think a better case could be made for them

>>48585486
Any way you could code it so such a thing works for our favourite Manchurian motionpicture board?

Hmmm what if i run double Cinerators and Zealots+UA with High Reclaimer/Vindictus? That should work, right?

>>48585557
It doesn't support any sort of markup to my knowledge.

The save as image functionality was put in with /tg/ in mind as a result of it not really supporting markup.

>>48583200
Man, I hope i didnt miss aiakos while i was asleep

>tfw Night Trolls look so boss you have to use them despite them sucking balls

>>48585747
>night trolls suck balls

What do you think that long tongue is for?

What the fuck. Mark 3 has pre-measuring? Went down to my FLGS to watch some people play and shit took like 3 times as long as I remember in mk2 because everybody fucking measured everything.

>>48585898
MkII allowed you to measure the control area at any point, so it effectively had pre-measuring anyway. If anything it took longer since you had to extrapolate the threat range of your models based on the control area of your warnoun.

>>48585922
I mean, sort of. If your shit was a few inches away at 4 o clock, and their shit was a few more inches away at 10 o clock, you couldn't just measure between them and say "I can charge here" you had to at least take some risks.

>>48585898
I've had the exact opposite experience. No more having to eyeball distances and spending forever trying to figure out if you're in range do do whatever you want or not. Now we just measure that shit and get on with it.

>>48585976
>>48585922
Maybe its just that group. They grew up on 40k, and the first time we played warmachine I was like: no premeasuring. This fucking rocks. And they were mopey little bitches about it.
Then we played X Wing and there's no measuring at all and I was like oh man this is great and they hated it.
So now that premeasurement is back they like measure every unit to every unit and sit and think for like 30 years.

>>48585936
The abundance of abilities that allowed you to pre-measure made it relatively trivial to guesstimate ranges, while the process was fairly time-consuming. Just allowing pre-measuring cuts down on the hassle while removing an aspect that almost nobody failed at anyway.

Besides, if you find it takes too long, just run games with a death clock.

>>48585898
My games have become much faster with premeasuring. At the beginning of a turn I'll spend like 2 minutes fucking around with proxy bases and can then play my turn with absolute certainty. Mind you, most of my games are on the clock though.

>>48585747
At least Rök is god tier. Especially with Borka.

>>48583257
Makeda3 got hit pretty hard, man.

>>48585489
>The harrower has better clearing potential

Harrowers are also only SPD5 and MAT6, and you can't charge and use Thresher in the same turn. I can see their potential but I've always had a lot of trouble getting much millage out of mine. Though if all you want is infantry clearing, a pair of Shrikes might work better.

>>48586656
>you can't charge and use Thresher in the same turn
What? Yes you can. When you successfully charge, you can make an initial melee attack or a special attack with a melee weapon. Threasher is a special attack on the Harrower's Perisher so you can charge with it.

>>48582149
It was a D&D setting, and only in name. If we're honest the D20 IK was a bad adaptation that the new IKRPG improved upon tenfold. D&D-style rules for magic and classes never really fit IK.

>>48585489
Bitch who cares about your bad grid when you can just being another one.

>>48586385
How so? She most a point of armor and market can't trigger her movement with eliminator, but I can't think of any other way she got worse.

>>48582404
>14% survivability
So you're trading 1d+1 more damage per non charge attack for 1 more model surviving?

At my LGS the games are about as fast as they've always been. Though we play more since Mk3 dropped so maybe the practice has sped is up.

Also I'm literally at work taking a shit while typing this. Shitposting at its finest.

>>48586840
Huh. I always thought star attacks counted as Power Attacks, so couldn't be used when you charge. This changes things.

>>48575590
Blessed be the pirates

>>48587267
( attack) just means special attack. When you perform a special attack you sacrifice your initials but that's it. It doesn't require focus/fury or anything like that.

Not that the special attack HAS to be associated with a weapon. For example the Retribution warjack the Phoenix has a special attack call Combustion. It cannot use it on a charge since it isn't listed as a special attack from a weapon.

>>48587651
There was supposed to be a star symbol in the '( attack)' but I guess it didn't recognize it.

This >>48585567 humble menite requests help again.

>>48586871
Eh, kind of. I mean, you still have shit like differences between divine and arcane magic, rather severe class/race distinctions and tons of stuff reminiscent of a standard D&D setting.

While they did move away from the D&D stuff with the release of Warmachine, you can still very much see it in how the world is built, from pantheons to paladins to magic systems to the idea that there's an inherent difference between a Storm Knight and an Iron Fang when the only real difference is in what ridiculous impossible weapon they're holding and the requirements for taking the class.

>>48587717
>Double cinerators
>What a time to be alive

I posted in a few days ago but the thread autosaged like immediately.

I inherited a Menoth Army from my brother because "they ruined my bastions." And I was wondering if what I have is a good place to start or if I'm going to get rolled when I go to the FLGS. I've done a little bit more research and it looks like most of the stuff my brother bought got nerfed.

Warcasters:
Kreoss 1
Severius 1

Units:
Exemplar Bastions
Exemplar Errands + UA
Choir
Wracks

Solos:
Vassal (2)
Heirophant

Heavies:
Crusader
Magnetized Heavy Kit (Crusader, Templar, Vanquisher)
Magnetized Castigator, Sanctifier, Reckoner Kit

Lights:
Devout
Redeemer
Repenter
Revenger

Thanks.

>>48584126
Only nouns can shake. And you can kill them before then.

File: hqdefault.jpg (13KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 480x360px

>>48588504
That does not answer my question.


But nevertheless.
Hmmm what if i run double Cinerators and Zealots+UA with High Reclaimer/Vindictus? That should work, right?

>>48589493
Nouns and their battlegroup can shake.

>>48590487
Yes, their battlegroup. Which consists of yet more nouns.

>>48590487
warnouns mean anything with war in front of it like jacks and beasts

Anyone have the desert hydra card?

>>48591605
It's on WHAC. 5 heads, losing an aspect kills a head, each head gets to make either a PS18 bite or a SP6 POW12 continuous corrosion shot. The bites have crit grievous, the sprays have [Action] do a single SP10 POW6.

Animus is cost 2, enemies can't shoot while in the casters CMD. So it's fucking pointless basically.

Then it has circular vision, regen d3+3, and snacking. Oh and fury 4.

Statline is 5 14 6 5 9 19 6, PC38, FA2.

>>48591696
>SP10 POW6
POW16

>>48591696
If you reopen an aspect through healing, does the missing head return?

>>48591792
Yes.

>>48591696
Just was curious about the DEF.

Hmm, so DEF12 with Naaresh. That is kind of cute.

>>48585335
Ten points is still about 10% of your total points. That isn't trivial, and certainly not worth spending on a generic beater that can't reasonably make it to melee with it's weapons still attached without a bunch of help.

>>48592113
Don't you fucking DARE try and salvage 1) that horrific DEF, or 2) Naaresh. The best warlocks for the Hydra are Makeda and Xerxis because they have CMD10 for the animus, though most gunlines are RNG12 anyway.

>>48592191
Your Slayer doesn't need to make it to combat intact, because your OTHER Slayer made it there. And I don't know much about Cryx, but the Necrotech seems alright. 2 points to make sure your Slayers can get shit done.

>>48586028
Sounds like they need to play on clock.

>>48592288
You're thinking about it the wrong way.

The starter list, though I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it.

(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Agonizer [7]
- Desert Hydra [38]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Keltarii (max) [15]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop the Keltarii though, maybe downgrade to Karax or maybe do Blood Runners.

Anyways, point is to aggressively move the Hydra forward, using it as cover. The Shield guards are meant to protect against GW shots, while the rest of the shooting you just heal back, between the paingivers, forcing, and Naaresh's extra fury from taking points to upkeep.

Moving that far forward agressively lets Naaresh get up the field with Lamentations, and his feat is both very powerful offensively and defensively, so once the Hydra gets in there it can be very hard for your opponent to remove.

Mk3 really helped the Hydra, because it's issue is just making it into melee and not dying as a followup, which is absolutely can do now.

So I'm brand new to this game and looking at Legion. What would be you guys' recommendation for a babby's first Legion list, in terms of models and warlocks that'd be worth picking up?

>>48592288
>Slayers are great because they're so cheap!
>They require a 12 point support package

>>48592288
>Your Slayer doesn't need to make it to combat intact, because your OTHER Slayer made it there.
Ok great, you spend 20 points to deliver a Slayer, assuming the opponent didn't have the firepower to blast both of them into uselessness which a lot of lists do. Even lists that don't can do it on accident some times because of the low arm and weak grid.

>>48592288
>Don't you DARE

Holy shit no one skorne isn't being taken seriously.

>>48593153

It's pretty much a consequence of the faction playbase now coming to understand that all their "hang in there and play this out" rally and any related displays of optimism in the last few years of mk2 accomplished was make it ok in PP's eyes to leave them where they were for mk3. And give them some rebalancing, as it wouldn't be fair to the other factions if they did otherwise. (Gun Bugs and Immortals- I don't think you ever again see a skorne player actually admit to liking to play a model, lest the nerf bat descend upon it shortly afterwards.)

>>48592288
Naaresh isn't that bad. One could argue given the current gunline meta, he is actually one of the better options even due an Arm buff feat.

>>48592381
To be honest, you'd likely be better off with two Sentries, and some extra points to upgrade the Brutes to something else and some Bloodrunner Master Tormentors than the Hydra.

>>48593355
I don't really think so. You're not exerting the same kind of pressure on your opponent that way, and you can't be so aggressive with Naaresh that way.

There's some wonder on if you fit in Despoiler in there for full on anti-upkeep, spellcasting, and heavy warbeast hate. Warbeasts in that range fucking hate having to cast animi.

>>48593452

That's a good point. If Skorne has taught anything, it's that endurance doesn't becoming intimidating until it has both degree and duration.

>>48593452
Well, a bg of Agonizer, Gladiator, Sentry, Sentry, Despoiler is pretty durable. Maybe if you don't care bout troops as much you could bite the bullet and fit Tiberion in place of a Sentry or in as well.

Alternatively, doing the bugs and Zaadesh Gladiator kit is a decent high arm rush.

FLGS is having a Warmahordes escalation league starting next week over 2 months. I know fuck all about it, but have been into 40k for about a good 8-9 years now (so also know fuck all).

Anyone beardy enough to answer a few questions? I've picked up both battlegroups for Legion of Everblight, and just want to figure out who's a better beginner warlock - Kryssa or Lylyth1? MKIII update is a recent thing and there's not a whole lot in terms of advice for beginners post this update...

Hey, would anyone be able to post the Centurion chassis statline and abilities so I could compare them? (mostly the Centurion and Avenger)

thanks if possible

>>48594087
>>48592466
I'm not a Legion player, but I'll try and field some basic questions.

I personally think that Kryssa seems like a fine starter warlock, she's got a simple to use, straightforward feat, a decent spell list and a good focus on needing to be protected, which teaches good lessons about warlock placement.

Legion is, in general, the glass cannon faction. Practically all of it hits incredibly hard, especially as far as beasts go, but most of it can't take a hit worth a damn. They're also a pretty big ranged faction, mostly in their beasts.

In general, tactical advice from Mk2 will apply, so long as it's not super specific or detailed. While a lot has changed in the edition, a lot of those changes are very minute, and much harder for a newer player to notice.

>>48594087

Kryssa is a good caster buuuut her battlegroup is trash. The Neraph just can't hack it most of the time, even with her feat. This has a lot to do with the rather unnecessary changes to some of its stats (imo) mainly down from pow 16 to 15 on it's strong weapon and down from 4 fury to 3 (this is huge).

Lytlth's BG is slightly better, still not the best but the Carnivean can actually kill stuff without effort and with Parasite you have the trade-off of Kryssa's stronger attacks for everyone for a turn vs stronger attacks on a single target for multiple turns, plus Lylyth has some form of fury management now, even if it does kinda suck.

Plus 4 shedders with flank and a parasite target with free charging is slightly better than two shredders, but tbqh shredders are kinda lame now altogether so it's a toss-up really.

Kryssa might be better over the course of the game survivability wise but Lylyth has the better BG in that you might actually kill more than one thing with armor so it's ehhhh

Ok, none of the Legion BGs are particularly great ehhh.... I tried to help the best I could.

>>48561590
New NQ 67

new.vk <dot> com / doc34805648_437754782?hash=6459541cede4bfe0bb&dl=bb2da8ec7bd3b534d1

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Agonizer [7]
- Desert Hydra [38]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

Weeded out some of the more pointless stuff, gave Naaresh a better second line, gave the Hydra even more protection against spells.

Also, Sandstorm isn't worth casting 90% of the time, but there are absolutely situations where it will come in handy. Like against assault.

File: 1445457293269.jpg (7KB, 103x150px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 103x150px

>>48587651
>Phoenix can't Combust on a charge
Shit. I suppose I'd feel bad if the guy hadn't shot me off the table the next turn.

Where in the rules does it specify weapon-based specials only? I'm not finding an actual description of a "charge attack" anywhere in my mini-rulebook.

>>48595317
It's on p. 31 in the Prime pdf.

How can I use Thunderhead effectively in mk3? What are some good synergies or buffs with her?

Anyone want to show me a list with skarre 1 and soulhunters?

>>48596015

Fire for Effect is quite amusing on him, especially with Jakes to energiser. Thunderheads pulse attack will get every damage roll boosted, and if that doesn't leave a 14" wide smoking hole in the enemy army i don't know what will.

hes also great with Nemo3 on Jakes. you can energiser forward for more range, or energiser back after firing to be further away. Feat turn + a firefly (and you usually have at least 2 with nemo3, so 1 of them usually survives for ionization) means Thunderhead can shoot Pow 16 three times, and get to boost one of them (either to hit or damage).

Nemo3 and Jakes is the best way to use him. but anyone with FFE (caine2) is great fun.

he also likes snipe. RNG10 is not amazing. RNG14 means he starts becoming a proper ranged jack.

Storm striders buff his RAT, which stacks really well with sustained attack.

>>48596841
How about you do your own thinking for a change?

File: Skarre1_20.png (114KB, 421x403px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 421x403px

>>48596841
Here you go, chummer. All to your satisfaction, I hope

Since i havent got answered, asking again.
>Hmmm what if i run double Cinerators and Zealots+UA with High Reclaimer/Vindictus? That should work, right?
Oh and question considering Harby, Avatar, Covenant and Vassal - worth picking?
Cant say anything for sure about Harby, but Avatar looks quite MEH with this D3 foc stuff, and its statline is not something really really powerfull. Covenant - giving my ranged units fire on shots is pretty damned nice, same goes with knockback immunity and THOU SHALT NOT CAST! in 10 inch radius. Or maybe it have some downsides i do not know about?
And lastly - vassal. Not sure about that guy, 1 foc per turn doesnt sound much fun to me. The only way i could imagine using the guy is via picking like replacement for Tristan in case i only run 1 redeemer- but why would i want that lol if i cant simply pick 2 redeemers and with Tristan they will be so damn great?

File: bd2e74a7a27ff39be8432d3450296504-d3bf5yc.jpg (94KB, 618x800px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 618x800px

Is there much finesse to building a Rahn list beyond "take Shyeel mages and arc nodes"? I want to play jack pinball.

>>48583257
Yeah Morg2 is worse than he ever was. Though I haven't played MK1 so I'm not 100% sure.

>>48586385
>Makeda3 got hit pretty hard, man.
Hell no. Hand of Death helps her greatly and the meta plays very well into her hands. Losing a point of ARM was sad, but 15/18 will have to suffice. She loves the buffs to Tiberion, the Cannoneer and the Gladiator and works well with the Soldier who is worth its weight in gold in the current meta. And she really doesn't care about all the nerfs as she wasn't taking that stuff anyway (except for Karn, but who needs him when Tiberion exists).

>>48599174
>>48587092
Makeda3 lost Fate Walker, which is a huge deal for her.

No longer can she make good use of Vortex of Destruction turn by turn.

>>48599354
Yeah Fate Walker hurts. I've only played like 5-7 games with her in MK3 so I'm not enirely sure whether or not we can compensate for it. So far it hasn't been that much of an issue, but I see your point.

>>48599425
It means you'll have to screen or buckle down and take an Archidon.

>>48597854
>what if i run double Cinerators and Zealots+UA with High Reclaimer/Vindictus? That should work, right?
Should work fine.
Vassal is kinda crap.

>>48598214
Double arc nodes
HSBM + 2 magisters min.
Take some staples
Pepper with assassination pieces

>>48599467
Why would an Archidon help? Sprint has the exact same issue that the new Fate Walker has.

>>48599542
She's Spd 6. Fate Walker is Reposition 5. You net an inch with the Archidon.

>>48599590
You, uh, don't know the issue being discussed, do you?

So, in Mk2, Fate Walkers movement was at the end of the turn. This allowed Makeda to get enemy heavies into her melee range, so that when her own models went into them, they'd get automatically boosted damage dice from Vortex, and then she could move to safety at the end of the turn.

Now, with Fate Walker simply being Reposition, she can't use this trick. Given that it was often 3-4 free fury on her beasts, it's a huge nerf for her.

>>48599640
Familiar with what was being discussed - more taking about how to make do with what is available. The trick is gone but it doesn't negate the nature that her playstyle still wants to retreat/reposition her in a way for her army to protect/make use of VoD. At which point you kinda either go three routes:

>ditch the original playstyle all together
>attempt to play a shittier version of it with Molik Karn to do some work
>attempt to play a shittier version of it with an Archidon so you move a little farther for cheaper

Agreeing with you that she lost a bunch - she's not the Mak3 I was playing in Mk2 - just considering where to go from where she is now.

>>48599693
It's not a shitter version, it straight up doesn't work.

>>48599697
The question is what's the best warrior model to put Hand of Death on. Personally I'd love to put Puppet Master and Hand of Death on a hero Nihilator and watch him Overtake + Berserk his way through a whole unit.

>>48599851

Its pretty amusing on a fully loaded Hakaar, although its no hero nihilator as he doesn't have unlimited attacks

So how do people feel about MkIII? I haven't had much time to play yet, but it just looks like they got rid of the beefcake bricks while keeping the mass-infantry clearing stuff, which might make single wound infantry kind of ass.

>>48599851
Haha I've been thinking about this, too. Makeda 3 can surf on feat turn as well

>>48599983
I feel good about it, even though I play Skorne. For me personally it's just about bringing the good models that might have SOME synergy with my warlock. My own single wound infantry is complete shit though. I play Nihilators religiously because they clog the board up something awful, though I keep hearing that Karax do the job better.

>>48599991
I missed running Morghoul1 with Molik Karn. Like bitch I will slay your whole infantry blob and walk 18" to safety because the Tyrant Commander is a THING.

>>48599999
Wtf Quint's

It's not that karax do it for better, they just do it 4 points cheaper and girded helps against lists that use blast damage as infantry removal. For example karax can arbitrarily waltz through conquests creeping barrage.

>>48599983
That's the general feeling. Ranged units are doing well, though. With premeasuring they can stand back and contribute greatly and not be as threatened. Units like winter guard rifle corps, reeves of orboros, and idrians are performing well. Trenchers and others that can create cloud walls or provide some utility are finding a place, as well.

Just about every faction has some real worker heavies for the battlegroup that are pretty common, too.

File: itsanewdayyesitis.jpg (49KB, 730x487px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 730x487px

Just picked up the Protectorate battlebox, since they're so synergy heavy what units should I look out for? I'm already looking to pick up some Wracks.

File: 12642789_599563963517643_7746145774711629792_n.jpg (7KB, 255x191px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 255x191px

>>48600554
The Protectorate lost a ton of synergy, but the battlebox is fun. Malekus is actually a great gunline caster and his feat truly shines in attrition. I'd advise to get the choir, which even after the terrible nerf is still a desired unit. Get Temple Flameguards or Idrians as a jamming infantry unit and Sunburst crews for additional firepower (specifically on feat turn). Malekus loves any and all fire-shooting jacks and the Castigator under Hymn of Battle and Ignite is your heavy hitter when things start reaching you. Don't expect to outshoot Khador or Cygnar, but if you light the infantry on fire, it will be worth it. Wracks and the Hierophant are always a welcomed addition to any army.

>>48600500
I kind of wish they'd toned down the mass infantry removal a little bit while they were at it. It just feels like we've swung too far in the other direction with blast damage getting buffed, while it already did a really good job of invalidating most infantry. I'd rather have this than Infantrymachine or MediumBaseBricksMachine, but optimally we would just end up a little bit more toward the infantry side of things.

>>48599467
Yeah but what about Harby and Avatar? Meh or wanna pick em?

>>48601155

You see three kinds of infantry units now (with exceptions for recursion):

Ranged.
Ridiculous ARM skew
Def skew with blast immunity

If they took the rest out of War Room, it'd be a week before anyone noticed.

>>48601330
At least Banshees are super solid now. Blast immunity, great ranged defense and easy access to Stealth in a cheap package.

>>48596901
Hrm, question -- if you marshal him to a gun mage officer, can he get Thunderbolt on Energy Pulse?

>>48601329
Harby's kinda meh. With Power Up, the Avatar lacks the draw he used to have.

Amon is the best PoM caster now, imo.

>>48601567
Fairly certain Rune Shot requires normal attacks.

>>48601619
Ahh, "basic ranged attack". Thanks.

>>48601606
If there's one thing I can say to compliment PP, it's that Power Up is an excellent rule and proved they recognized that anything that generated free Focus was god tier in earlier editions and just made it standard, particularly as the first free Focus is infinitely more useful than the second free point, diminishing the overwhelming effectiveness of Focus generators slightly.

I'm completely new to this game and but it felt fun enough when I tried it at my local shop and apparently it's not as expensive as WH. Cygnar seemed like it would fit my playstyle, can anyone help me with what models should I start off with?

>>48602661
Some jacks (I would say something basic like an Ironclad, Defender, Hunter or Charger), a warcaster of your choice, and maybe a unit or some solos. You can't really go wrong with some Trenchers or Gun Mages.

>>48602661
>not as expensive as

Its a trap, anon. With any game. Shit, even infinity can run you a couple hundred easy.

Back on topic, sometimes Cygnar lists build themselves. Trenchers with attachment, storm lances, a journeyman warcaster with a sentinel (the little shield guard). Being a defender and a centurion. Sprinkle in some power solos like Eiryss 1 or anything with gun mage in the name, and caster to taste. You almost can't go wrong.

What I would avoid is spam lists, especially if you're coming from WH which is an easy tendency with army construction. Some scrub will tell you to buy 9 hunters and play them with one caster, or 8 berserkers in khador, or 9 dervish in protectorate. Long story short is it'll be a lot of money for a weird list that only works with one caster. If someone suggests something like this, they are steering you wrong.

File: 20160707_144704.jpg (5MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 5312x2988px

So what's keeping you guys playing right now? Have you been swallowed by the massive shit storm of mk3 yet?

>>48603089
>>48602782

I was thinking of buying the starting box or something like that. I played 40k before but it's been like 7 years since I last played that game either way.

I was mainly looking for models/list that would allow me to play controll-y and shooty.

>>48603176
Starter is good, and pairs well with any warcaster named Haley for the shooting/control playstyle you're looking for. The stuff mentioned above is a good shopping list

Am I retarded or did bane thralls outright lose tough? I know they traded stealth for ghostly

>>48603225
They never had tough. They got it from the UA back in mk2. The Ua doesn't grant it anymore

>>48602782
A great way to start is with the "Cygnar Battle box". It's like 50$ and comes with a great caster, an Ironclad (a super solid heavy jack that can find a place in any list), a Lancer (light jack with a cortex-devouring shield and lets you cast spell with it being the point of origin) and a firefly (light jack that melts infantry with chain lightning and buffs lighting damage around it). The box also comes everything you need to play against other battle boxes, including a rulebook.

After you pick up the box and skim through the rules a bit, see if your local game store has a "Journeyman League" coming up and sign up for it. If not, ask about someone called a "Press Ganger" who'll show you the ropes and do a few demo games with you.

>>48603251
That's what I meant, I usually took mine with the UA anyway. So I guess there's no reason to take them over knights now? Yes I know knights lost WM but gained brutal charge

>>48603206
Alright, thanks guys.

>>48603289
Warriors are better now, Knights are pretty much never worth it now.

If you're playing Warriors never take the UA. It's not worth the points now

>>48603289
Bane warriors are good, but they need delivery like everyone else and Cygnar still preys on them. Never take the UA any more, it's very little benefit. That's just my opinion though. Any caster with occultation can probably run them pretty well.

>>48603370
So I could run them in conjunction with jammers like blackbane and do alright...right? I'm thinking of running a list with either coven or Denny 1 with warriors(thralls), Soulhunters, blackbanes, 3 nodes, combine...not sure where else I could go to fill up the points obviously some heavy hitter like a nightmare, and some solohunters like pistol wraiths. Playing my first game of mk3 this weekend. Another random question are riders still fun? Looking at the cards it looks like Soulhunters blow them out of the water

>>48599983
I'm past gunline stage into jack spam stage with Khador after meeting some literally unshootable lists. Who needs infantry anyway.

>>48603359
But the UA still adds three weapons, and a more death toll mini feat that's more reliable than BLT. And the 'Rise' ability works well in conjunction with Terminus giving them tough.
>inb4 never use Terminus

Sure it's not an auto include anymore, but it still works pretty well.

>>48603465
Better places to spend 5 points.

thoughts on greylord outriders this edition? it thought spray ponies were win in mk2 but what about now?

>>48603453
WRGC CRA + 3 rockets is pretty gross even before caster buffs. butcher1 feat + iron flesh is just gravy

>>48589231
Not a Menoth player, but my roommate has Menoth. Take everything I say with a grain of salt

Both your warcasters are good, pick whichever you prefer. Kreoss is easier with a better feat, but Severius does more for your army in general. Both die to a stiff breeze.

Bastions definitely took a hit, they aren't trash but they aren't optimal

Errants used to be Gods,now they're just pretty good. I hear they're overshadowed by Idrians now.

Choir is a trademark of your faction. Not sure if they're still auto include in every list.

Crusader is really cheap for what it does. Templar is beefy as fuck. Don't not about the vanquisher.

Castigator got better but its still a jack designed to kill infantry in game that now has few infantry. Sanctifier is niche. Reckoner is one of the best jacks in the game.

Vassal and hierophant are solid

I can't keep the fucking lights straight.

>>48603759
It's 6 points :/

Hows Major Siege doing in mark 3? His rockets and feat still awesome?

>>48604013
Thanks for the reply.
Redeemer has the Rockets for the old pop and drop as he called it.
Revenger is the arc node repulse shield guy. Played battle box games and I like him a lot.
Revenger is the light flamethrower.
Devout is the pole arm shield babysitters club guy. Same chassis as dervish.

>>48604335
I rest my case your honor

>>48603289
Just take knights see >>48572072 & >>48573954

>>48603359
What are you even talking about. Warriors are not 'better' than anything. They aren't better than their MKII counterparts, that already were probably the least played of the 5 popular in-faction infantry choices. They aren't better than knights. The only thing they offer is Dark Shroud, which can be gotten through other avenues rather easily.

I think only people who don't play Cryx are blown away by bane thralls and slayers. With bane thralls specifically I think they got their booties rocked once when they were just starting out and that stigma has stuck. Slayers- its the price tag and the admittedly great stat line, but people don't look at the grid.

>>48604841
You know Knights and Thralls are the same speed right? Knights just have reach because no one I going to give you reach unless they're crippling the unit or they're a newbie.

Their +1 arm also doesn't do much for them. They still die to pow 10 guns

All that said, Warriors actually get work done now and can support other models in the army with Dark Shroud. You need a way to deliver them now but that doesn't reduce their overall utility.

Knights used to be the way to go but not anymore. If you're going bring an expensive Bane unit you're only going to bring one and Warriors are straight better investments for your army since they actually do stuff. Just don't take them with the overpriced UA

Source: I've played and played against Cryx for three editions now.

>>48604841
ever since Scything Touch was changed to add Dark Shroud to a model versus giving a model/UNIT a stackable damage buff, native Dark Shroud has meant a whole lot less esp for particular casters.

>>48604996
Knights have vengeance, they are not the same speed. It is almost impossible to not benefit from it. If you are able to reach the front lines with 10 banes of any flavor. good job you are living the dream.

>>48605066
That is true, however ragman still gives it out. The roll of scything touch is moved to being put on a heavy or a solo with reach, imo

>>48605192
The only time you are ever going to get Vengeance is because I have alpha struck you and taken more than 60% of the unit off the table. That or in just not going to give it to you until I can kill most of the unit. Good players are never going to just let you have vengeance on more than a couple dudes

Woo?

Why are you spending points on this unit? What is doing that Raiders or Warriors don't do better?

>>48603147
Journeyman league is pretty fun right now. My meta is not super competitive, so I like it.

We have plenty of new khador players in the journeyman, which sucks. However we also have a bunch of Trollbloods, a few Skorne, Cryx, Legion, Circle, Mercenary, and even 3 Minion players.

>>48604572
He dislikes having to choose between Reinholt and Squire, but apart from that he's pretty happy to be here.

I CAN'T BEAT LEGION AS SKORNE REEEEEE

A SINGLE BLIGHTWASP TOOK OUT MY ENTIRE UNIT OF NIHILATORS I DIDN'T PASS A SINGLE TOUGH ROLL RRRRYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>48605233
oh no you only get it on 1-2

>implying 1-2 banes aren't all that's needed frequently, with debuffs

>>48605542
under what caster

and when did skorne ever beat legion lol

>>48605233
I find that with saturation (multiple units) its fairly easy to reach the enemy with 75% of the force wich is acceptional. Obviously one should not overly comit in unpacking if they can help it. But again, in Cryx its alright to lose dudes.

I would not recomend taking a single unit of bane knights however. If the list calls for one unit I generally bring witches, rarely raiders.

>>48605721
>when did skorne ever beat legion lol
During the brief period where the Sentinel was good.

>>48605721
He was using a version of Absylonia that gave his guys 2" RNG and +2MAT on feat turn, and something that gave them overtake. Blight Wasps are fucking retarded under that shit.

>>48605850
Abby2 might be their second strongest caster like that. She has really strong shit, but Blight Flies are not really broken with her.

>>48605700
On Bane Knights that's pretty bad.

>>48605788
>I would not recomend taking a single unit of bane knights however. If the list calls for one unit I generally bring witches, rarely raiders.
I think that depends a lot on how the new terrain rules shake out. A large density of terrain makes both flavors of Bane a hell of a lot more interesting.

>>48603866
Did the red murder ponies change at all? They still do a job, albeit maybe a less necessary one with less infantry on the table. Auto-include with Zerkova2, and take-em-if-you-need-em with anybody else.

>>48605817
Legend has it that both Arararara~dus are playable at the moment purely because they're 23ARM against shooting on top of being ALRIGHT beasts.

>>48606701
Well the Sentinel is good if you're teching against Hordes, but why would you tech against Hordes?

>>48606862
sad trombone

but true

what do you think would make hordes more competitive these days considering they could stomp WM in mk2? aside from beast cost changes.

>>48605936

Who is first?

>>48603147
painting up Ragnor and some bouncers

>>48606892

Give us field marshal on our warlocks.

>>48603147
i've been wanting to play. i just live about an hour from any LGS, and the one i play at is close to my job. but the day for WMH play, I have either consistently taken off of work since about May, or have just been so exhausted that I don't want to bother taking the time to play

i did buy a fuckton of khador over the last week so that is motivation to actually get some table time

>>48606931
Lylyth3 it seems.

>>48606892
1) (More) Warlocks with actual spell lists.
2) Better troops

>>48606955
oh man i'm with you there.