Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

First for arthas was a real human being, and a real hero.

>>48498794
Of course he fucking was, that's the entire point of his story

The hero's fall

>>48498828
>heroes fall
jaina please go

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>>48497566
Almost like Cataclysm. I'm honestly in favour of at least partially reworked zones, and the earthquake is a nice concept, as well as introducing the zoens that have been shut out, like Gilneas and what not.. But for the actually new content, I'd like a South Seas vibe.
Give me Kul Tiras, Kezan, Lost Isles, Zandalar, Pirates, Naga and shit. To set up for the Horde and Alliance having a powerful navy, so they can discover a heavily edited Pandaria.

Plot would be that the Forsaken/The Horde finally invades Gilneas, forcing Gilneas to pick a side, and making Kul Tiras joins the Alliance before they themselves are invaded. And Goblins for Horde, pic related. Capitals of the expansion would be the capital of Kul Tiras, whatever it's called, on one side of the archipelagio, and the ruins of Kezan on the other side of the isles. Garrosh becoming warlord of that campaign and then Warchief when Thrall dies.

>>48498852
I don't understand

Are you referencing how Jaina also fell, except her fall was terribly, terribly written instead of being one of the best examples of "the hero's fall" in video games?

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>>48498993
>Jaina
>getting sick of the Horde's bullshit is falling
The fuck am I reading?

>>48499058
Having her faith broken is falling

Yes it came from an outside source, but still, was a hero, now is used as a shitty, shitty villain

>>48498993
she abandoned arthas when he needed his friends the most.

>>48499120

They took their separate paths because their viewpoints, while neither were explicitly wrong or right, were incompatible.

>>48499143
Arthas was objectively right. Everyone was already dead, the only variable was how many soldiers Mal'Ganis got.

>>48499168
We know this now, but you're looking at it with hindsight. Jaina had no way of knowing that the plague was totally incurable. To her point of view, Arthas was leaping to the most direct and most brutal solution without trying any alternatives.

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>>48499115
She's the hero the Alliance deserves. And with Genn in charge, they should actually take down the horde like it deserves.
Of course, Kosak's waifu has too much fucking plot armor and is fucking warchief.

>>48492950
>Naaru
>creatures of light

How would that lead to more nature worship?

>>48499192
>Jaina
>Possible of doing anything after she was kicked out of Dalaran

>>48499192
Has Kosak done anything good?

He ruined the Horde, ruined Sylvanas, killed Cairne, turned Varian into a blue warchief, made Varian a generic good guy king instead of the angry asshole he was, got rid of Theramore, ruined Jaina, ruined the entire concept of the dragon aspects, is responsible for pretty much all of the "green jesus" bullshit, still hasn't let us kill Azshara and is responsible for many, many more problems with the lore

>>48499258
I have a feeling Azshara is going to hijack this expansion after the first tier.

>>48499205
I think he meant naaru influence was the whole reason humans started worshipping the light so remove the naaru and humans would probably worship nature

>>48499205
>>48499566
I think it was meant to be a reply to "why did humans start worshipping the light anyway" but he clicked the wrong post

>>48499258
>implying Varian didn't just grow up

All the other complaints are valid, though.

>>48499115
She should have turned out like this a lot sooner.

Arcane magic is corruptive. It breeds pride and arrogance. It's an addictive gateway drug, and if you take too much you end up with demons.

How Jaina stayed so bubbly for so long is a complete mystery.

>>48499897
>grow up
>7y/o varian sees the horde nearly destroy the alliance, kill his dad and bring the eastern kingdoms to it's knees
>doesn't destroy the horde
>old ass varian sees the horde nearly destroy the alliance, bring pandaria to it's knees, and nearly loses his son
>doesn't destroy the horde, again

he was chronically retarded.

>>48499952
>How Jaina stayed so bubbly for so long is a complete mystery.
because she's human and humans can't be evil
-Kosak

>>48500242
>who are half of the Cathedral of Light NPCs being Twilight cultists

>>48500242
nah, kosak turns people randomly evil if they are near his waifu.
>>48499952
>arcane magic is corruptive
to elves, not to humans. Humans don't turn cray cray when using arcane magic.

threadly reminder that silithids are amphibious and can live indefinitely underwater

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>>48500283

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>>48499258
>made Varian a generic good guy king instead of the angry asshole he was
Angry Varian was a fucking idiot, though, and unlike most Warcraft characters, he actually went through a character arc to become more level-headed.

>ruined Jaina
Zealous Jaina is awesome, though. Also, like Varian, her change in outlook is pretty logical after everything that's happened to her. I don't just mean the destruction of Theramore; for years, she kept campaigning for peace between the Alliance and the Horde, and no one was listening to her except Anduin (I don't have it with me, but that "How Jaina Proudmoore Became a Sith Lord" comic summarizes it perfectly). Jaina finally snapping makes sense, particularly with Theramore's destruction (you know, just about everything she's ever loved, plus a symbol of everything she's worked for) acting as the final straw.

If her character had stayed as the bleeding heart all this time, it would've gotten old. Especially if the writing with the Horde and Alliance constantly having on-and-off wars. Jaina whining about it would've become tedious AND pointless.

>got rid of Theramore
I miss Theramore too, and I would normally prefer it not be destroyed, but its destruction DID have a point in the story. Besides, what would be the point of plot progression if some things didn't change? The world would be as stagnant and sterile as SWTOR.

I agree with you on the rest of your points, but some of your arguments have more to do with you not liking that some things are different, instead of actual criticisms.

>>48500296
when Thousand Needles flooded, everything drowned except for the silithids that are now sitting on the bottom of the ocean

>>48499897
Varian in Wrath was exactly what WoW needed, an aggressive leader, one who didn't just accept conflict, but wanted it.

Then Cataclysm came, and Kosak was all like "What? Human's can't be aggressive, don't be stupid, only orcs can be the aggressors" So he made Garrosh the warchief so the Horde could have the Varian character instead of the Alliance, and made Varian want peace instead.

Eventually, he figured out that this was a bit stupid, so he turned Jaina into Varian too

So for most of MoP, we had two Varians, neither of whom were actually Varian. Now we have one Varian, but it's still not actually Varian

>>48500325
I consider the bombing of Theramore to be the single most stupid part of WoW lore.

Forget all the Chronicles bullshit, forget Garrosh becoming warchief in the first place, or Gallywix remaining as the head of the Bilgewater cartel instead of having his fat face mashed in, forget the fat lot of nothing that has happened with the dwarves following the introduction of the least stable leadership ever.

The bombing of Theramore was the final nail in the coffin for the possibility of WoW have interesting and meaningful conflict. There is no way around it. Horde = bad guys, Alliance = good guys. No depth, no thought, just Horde bad Alliance good.

Also, Jaina herself, pre-bombing Jaina was great, the most solid voice for peace in the setting, someone who would turn on her own family for the sake of peace.

I will never forgive Kosak for proving her father right

>>48500336
>So for most of MoP, we had two Varians, neither of whom were actually Varian. Now we have one Varian, but it's still not actually Varian
World of Variancraft when

>>48499952
Arcane magic isn't corruptive in the same sense fel is. Most mages don't spontaneously turn evil and become raidbosses.
However, some mages get addicted to the rush of power you get by wielding it, and start looking for ways to get more and more power, which likely eventually leads them to fel magic.

Jaine has generally seemed pretty levelheaded, and not the type who pursues power for its own sake at the risk of her mind and soul.

>People legit arguing that Jaina is right.

The Horde is necessary because they are a very good united fighting force that will without question always side WITH the Alliance against a threat than against the Alliance.

Let's say varian following Queen Stupidity's advice, Dismantles the Horde.

No more Horde Warmachine.... What do the Races of the Horde do now?

The Orcs were in dire straights because the lack of resources in Durotar AND it suddenly got flooded so it became half desert have dusty quagmire.

The Bonds of kinship between the Tauren, Trolls and Orcs was huge. so what exactly do you do?

Put three entire races into camps, cost the Alliance so much resources as to be unfeasible and weaken yourself so the Legion returns and fucks you over?

>>48492950 anon here. >>48499816 is right, it was supposed to be response to >>48492705 but I clicked on a wrong post

>>48500469
Horde is problem precisely because they are trying to stay together. They are trying to keep high population density city in an area where something like that is unsustainable. Smaller, spread out tribes would be able to use the available resources better. Orcs would have to relearn the ways of life from Draenor, but both tauren and trolls would help them with survival skills. They would be more vulnerable to outside threats, true, but the "threat" that kept the Horde together was the Alliance.. and that was because they felt threatened by the Horde.

I'm pretty sure Alliance would be friendlier to the Horde if the later stopped being a military threat. In addition... belves were about to join the Alliance in MoP, tauren and nelves got along just fine, goblins don't care who they deal with as long as they get the money, trolls propably could get a truce (seeing as they rebelled against Garrosh in the first place), pandas already are with the Alliance and now have access to their ancestral homeland and screw Forsaken, they are assholes hated by their own allies. Orcs are the aggressors, and if they are divided in smaller tribes, troublemakers would lack power to start another big war, or would be weak enough to be more more easily dealt with by those who don't like their shit.

In case of a larger threat like the Legion, everyone would join against a common enemy (just like now), only it would be more effective, because they won't waste strenght fighting against each other too.

>>48501072
>divide the orcs into small tribes
>In the Barrens of all places, forcing EVEN MORE encroachment into Night Elven land

Think about it for two seconds. Where would the Orcs go if they were split up?

Stonetalon, Ashenvale, Feralas. Night Elven territories.

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>>48500469
>What do the Races of the Horde do now?
Did I hear free bodies?
Because I think someone said free bodies.

>>48499058
>Attack the Horde
>Horde attacks back.
>wtf Jaina did nothing wrong.

K.

Redpill me on the Ebon Blades involvement in Legion

>>48501751
they're protecting Azeroth from the Legion, don't worry about it goy

>>48501551

>horde legitimately fucks off and goes to the other side of the world
>helps defeat the burning legion
>starts trying to create a nation from nothing
>daelin proudmoore steps in and starts flinging shit for no reason, getting his ass killed in the process

DAELIN WAS RIGHT, HE A GOOD BOY, HE DINDU NUFFIN

>a massive invasion force pours out of theramore and starts building a goddamn road right through horde territory
>theramore, a completely valid military target, gets nuked

JAINA WAS RIGHT, SHE A GOOD GIRL, SHE DINDU NUFFIN

>>48501751
Get a cool idea to start recruiting again while also trying to help Bolvar stay sane (And NOT have to unleash the scourge he can barely control as cannon-fodder against the legion)

Then they get a little over-enthusiastic about recruiting badasses and Morgraine proposes raising Tirion starting a skirmish in the paladin class hall that they lose.

Bolvar is also really losing it with schizoid episodes where he suggests punishing souls that escaped Frostmourne both because they rejected the Light AND because they held onto it.

>>48501821
>>a massive invasion force pours out of theramore and starts building a goddamn road right through horde territory
The roaditself wasn't in Horde Territory, it was used to connect to the barrens and once Garrosh chimped out and started praising the people that killed those druids then restarting the Warsong Lumber camp on a massive scale it ended up being a route used by the alliance military to open a second front.

It COULD have been a trade route if people hadn't been cunts about it.

But Kosak demands Red vs Blu.

>>48501821
>>theramore, a completely valid military target, gets nuked
b-but muh civilians
-General Hawthrone while picking his teeth with the bones of tauren civilians

>>48501244
That's the problem with the WoW. There's a lot more orc that there should be (for no obvious reason, other that the Blizzard couldn't show how tiny the Horde is comparable to the Alliance), even if you include immigrants from Outland (and Old Horde was mostly made from male warriors, not whole tribes, they should have insanely skewed male/female ratio, meaning the numbers would get even smaller after Thrall's original group starts dying from the old age and their reproduction would be slower than what pure numbers suggests), and ingame lands are tiny. Barrens should be huge, hundreds of kilometers across (even with the post-Cata divide). And smaller tribes would be more tolerable.

They could also spread out through the world: pandaren wouldn't mind orcs settling in Pandaria, if they stay peaceful, parts of Northrend are tolerable living space, and nobody cares about it, even some settlements in neutral areas of Eastern Kingdoms (like Swamp of Sorrows and Stranglethorn) could propably stay, if they stop representing strongholds of a much more powerful hostile faction

>>48501751
they are true heroes.

>>48501821
>start a war with the alliance
>"why are they attacking me?"

>>48501867
>bolvar
>schizo

Come with me citizen

>>48501961
Of course, if we take the Horde as being as small as it should be, nothing in Cataclysm makes any sense at all. Because the conflict is borne from a lack of resources (which small numbers wouldn't consume) and is led by the orcish war machine (which should never be able to match the human or dwarven war machine, so the conflict should have ended in seconds)

>>48501867
Well, near as we can tell, the road was constructed as a preemptive strike against the Horde, given that Theramore's forces hit the Crossroads, Taurajo and Honor Hold before the Cataclysm.

So it wasn't Jaina opening a second front, so much as opening the -first- front.

Which is fine. Blizzard's got to have their red vs blue, and all that. It's just funny how people will then take the Horde defending itself against a clear aggressor as a sign Daelin was right, when the Horde killing Daelin was also an example of defending against a clear aggressor.

>>48502023

>start a war with the horde
>"why are they attacking me?"

t. daelin proudmoore

>>48502080
>Daelin attacks the Horde
>they defend themselves
>FUCKING SAVAGES I KNEW THEY'D NEVER CHANGE

>>48502038
The Ebon blade was giving him therapy though, which is nice.

Sword therapy still counts right?

>>48502067
>Well, near as we can tell, the road was constructed as a preemptive strike against the Horde, given that Theramore's forces hit the Crossroads, Taurajo and Honor Hold before the Cataclysm.
>So it wasn't Jaina opening a second front, so much as opening the -first- front.
But after he started sending demolisher battalions into Ashenvale. Most of the initial blows of the war happened roughly the same time as the Shattering book during the pre-shocks of the cataclysm itself.

>>48501751
Scourge is the ultimate redpill.

Just drink the plague nigga.

>>48501867
>And NOT have to unleash the scourge he can barely control as cannon-fodder against the legion

That's a nice case of Blizzard stupidity. Why is there still Scourge in the first place? Bolvar could order them to destroy each other or jump into nearest volcano. Even if he had no control over them other than to keep them doing nothing, why didn't the Alliance and the Horde used the inactive undead as target practice?

Why did everyone suddenly forgot there's still a huge undead army? If Tirion somehow kept new Lich King's existence a secret, everyone involved should know the undead still exists, and they had no idea they could use them against other threats (like Legion) who weren't very active at the moment. For all everyone knew, some escaped lich, necromancer or whoever could take control of them and start wrecking shit again.

>>48502107
>But after he started sending demolisher battalions into Ashenvale. Most of the initial blows of the war happened roughly the same time as the Shattering book during the pre-shocks of the cataclysm itself.
Didn't Wolfheart happen after the Cataclysm, though? It's got Worgen and Goblins involved, so it had to have taken place after the Cataclysm, and before questing.

Which would put the timeline as Post Lich King truce > Shattering book > Theramore invasion of the Barrens > Shattering event > Wolfheart invasion of Ashenvale > Cataclysm expansion.

>>48502193

Wolfheart happened after the Cataclysm, yes. Theramore had already invaded the Barrens prior to Garrosh's invasion of Ashenvale.

>>48501867
>Get a cool idea to start recruiting again
I thought they, like everyone else, hated being Undead, but unlike the Forsaken were moral enough not to make more Undead?

>>48500390
To be fair, at the time of his invasion Proudmoore was wrong.
It took some absurdly bad writers to make him right.

>>48502259

How the balls DID Thrall ever allow the Forsaken?

'No necromancy' was literally his #2 rule when he made the new Horde. #1 being 'No demonology'

>>48502193
>>48502248

I'm fairly certain Garrosh started redoubling Horde presence in Nightelf lands first, he sorta started right towards the end of the Shattering though perhaps not a FULL invasion

And at the very least refused to investigate and outright praised the execution of diplomats which is sorta Casus Beli.

>>48502259
They only raise a small handful with their minds and it DOES seem optional and isn't being used for particularly selfish reasons, the rest are soulless automatons same as any of the DK spells.

>>48502259
Mostlygthey rise and go "wanna beat up demons?"

>>48502168
t. Mal'ganis

>>48501072
That's like saying keeping the NATO after the end of the warsaw treaty was a good idea.
Only extremely blue eyed idiots thought that.
The horde from wc3 on existed because outside threads, which would endanger their members if alone. With Proudmores invasion and Theramores cooperation with the invaders humans and by extention the alliance are a collective thread.
If you want to disable the horde, you have to do the same with the alliance. Otherwise similar blocs will form again.

>>48502297
They didn't use Necromancy untill the Cataclysm when Thrall wasn't in charge.

>>48502328
>They only raise a small handful with their minds
A small handful too many for the good guys

>>48502336
Yeah but what about all those sensations of being constantly hungry and tired and horny but not having any of the bodily functions to sate those needs? As an example.

And then if you use the light you get back your sense of taste and smell and what not and are forced to live with the monstrosity you are, on top of the Light burning you like fire, the maggots burrowing under your skin and all that nasty stuff.

>>48502294
Exactly my point

>>48502297
Desperation, the Horde/Forsaken allegiance only exists because both sides desperately needed allies

>>48502441
>>48502453

>They didn't use Necromancy untill the Cataclysm when Thrall wasn't in charge.

Right.

It kinda annoys me to look at the WoW horde as someone who just played the RTS warcraft games and actually liked the idea of the Horde trying to redeem itself.

The current horde is a mockery of everything Thrall tried to do.

>No demonology allowed!

Warlocks and Demon-powered Demonhunters everywhere!

>No necromancy allowed!

Forsaken and Death Knights everywhere!

>Horde and Alliance were moving towards friendlier relationships with Jaina's help

Oh god, oh gods and demons what the fuck.

>>48502441
Only duty now nigga. Also agony and hatred and rage

>>48502294
Again, he's only """"""right"""""" if you ignore that Theramore was destroyed in response to the multiple armies it threw at the Horde.

>>48502297
undead warlocks milling around, beign a living middle finger to Thrall's ideas.

>>48502328
>>I'm fairly certain Garrosh started redoubling Horde presence in Nightelf lands first

You being certain doesn't mean anything.

There are NPC's in the game that corroborate the fact that Theramore attacked first, by stating that Theramore had already begun its invasion well before the Cataclysm happened. Garrosh's efforts in Ashenvale happened AFTER the Cataclysm.

That's the bottom line. Stop trying to weasel around the facts with statements such as "I'm fairly certain..." and "Garrosh not investigating and praising the druid ambush grants Theramore a Casus Belli to invade."

>>48502588
I imagine the amount of forsaken warlocks that went to Kalimdor (and Thralls jurisdiction) was pretty low, and they'd have the good sense to hide their demons and pretend they were mages.

New Harbingers short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW5IYrgOgYU

>>48502612
how does that even make sense from a logical perspective. The horde is always on the offensive in kalimdor, and the alliance is nearly always on the backfoot except for maybe the southern barrens which ends with an old dwarf settlement being destroyed and the alliance pushed out of the barrens altogether. Blizzard's bullshit about how the horde attacked later logically inconsistent with the way the horde itself attacked.

>>48502297
I thought rule#1 was "no demon worship"

Demonology is useful, it's the first line of defense against demon worshipers and demons, because warlocks are the best at detecting that shit, even if they have a risk of becoming a part of the problem

>>48502612

Which NPCs?

>>48502656

Nah. He actively got rid of the Warlocks in the horde.

To quote the WC3 manual on Shamans:

>Under the leadership of Thrall, the Orcs have rediscovered their ancient Shamanistic traditions. In an attempt to rid the Horde of its demonic corruption, Thrall banned the use of Warlock magic and necromancy. Now, all Orc magic users practice Shaman magic which draws its power from the natural world and the elements.

>>48502685
But Neeru Fireblade is RIGHT THERE!

>>48502667
Not that anon, but he probably means Kilrok Gorehammer.

>>48502692
>Thrall doesn't care about warlocks and necromancy
>best warchief ever
>Garrosh speaks out and works against both
>stop this, he's Hitler
yes goy, the (((warlocks))) are on your side

>>48502692
Up until Hyjal, I imagine the no-warlocks stance was pretty hardline. Post-Hyjal, I can see him relaxing it a little in order to have some experts on hand to try to avoid the like happening again.

>>48502748

...not that warlocks helped at all with Mount Hyjal. It was entirely druidism, magecraft and shamanism that stopped them.

>>48502741
You know I come to this site daily and I don't think I'll ever get used to the sheer amount of nazi sympathisers I see here every day

Maybe they have just been here all along, just hiding in plain sight, and that is why Donald Trump will be our next president and the media keeps trying to shove Hillary down everyone's throat because chugging a tall glass of diarrhea is better than taking cyanide

>>48502844
>triggered warlock
aren't you supposed to be in the Tomb of Sargeras right now?

>>48502612
Also Wolfheart may have just fucked up the timeline since it's literally the worst warcraft book of them all.But yes lionizing the murder of ambassadors is a good way to get war justifiably declared.

He phrased his praise in a way that was pretty clearly Casus Belli, and I'm STILL pretty sure there was some mention of troop movements in the Shattering, but I need to actually go home and re-read it.

>>48502783
Yeah, but they only got that far because no one noticed the rampant corruption in Lordaeron

Seriously, the cult of the damned was fucking huge by the time the plague was unleashed

Would it kill anyone to have one totally good and trustable warlock that isn't the player character?

>>48502895

On the other hand: Demonology would have done very little to help there. They were running 99% on necromancy.

>>48502921
Oh right, those are separate now

>>48502898

Generally people who risk their soul for power are not trustable people. They are people who want power without caring about the risk.

>>48502921
Necromancy taught by Demons.

>>48502898
That white haired warlock that occasionally shows up in Golden novels around Varian. (Though shes probably just a joke saying "Guess what class, race, and haircolor I main?") which in essence makes ehr a player character.

>>48502935

Yeah. Demons taught necromancy originally but the necromancy itself wasn't demonic.

>>48502884

Wolfheart is still canon, regardless of your opinion on it.

There's no troop movements in the Shattering. I don't know where you keep getting this from.

Also, why are the goalposts being moved? We were originally discussing how Theramore had invaded the Barrens before the Horde invaded Ashenvale, but now you're trying to justify Theramore's invasion because Garrosh supported the attacks on the night elves. It seems like you've accepted the fact that Theramore DID attack first and are now trying to justify it.

I don't care whether Theramore was justified or not in their invasion. I've already proven the point I was arguing (that Theramore struck first) and I don't care to argue about something unrelated.

>>48502945
Risking your soul for power can be done for the right reasons

To protect your country from demons, for one

Funnily enough though, the one race with the highest quantity of not-evil warlocks is gnomes. And they all risk their souls for SCIENCE!

>>48502960

>Necromancy taught by Demons.

Well, necromancy taught by Other Necromancers and Forbidden Tomes mostly. The scourge had very, very few actual demonic forces (Just the spooky vampire assholes)

>>48502783
I don't mean that they helped at the battle, but that Thrall didn't actually know shit about demons until that point. He fights a bunch of Infernals rescuing Grom and then manages to cure him by relying on Jaina's help and expertise, and then at Hyjal his only job is to be a delaying force until the Night Elves can enact their master plan. And without their help he explicitly cannot hold the demons off.

The whole thing has got to be a wakeup call that even if legion-aligned warlocks are a terrible evil, having someone with some actual demonic know-how on hand to advise him is probablya good idea.

>>48501821
Horde attacking Theramore in itself makes perfect military sense. No matter how much Jaine supports diplomacy and is freinds with the former warchief, at the time Horde and Alliance were in a rapidly escalating war with each other. And even if Jaine wouldn't personally like it, she could hardly stop the Alliance forces from using Theramore as a military base and port for their warships. Not without leaving the Alliance, which she would be unlikely to do. Theramore is the biggest Alliance port on eastern coast of Kalimdor, and very close to Orgrimmar as well (even though in "real life" the distances are far greater than in the game, Dustwallow Marsh and Durotar are still veyr close to eachother geographically), so letting the place remain in Alliance hands would be an incredibly stupid military move.

It's like, say, if a war would've broken between Soviet Union and USA, and Cuba would've supported the Soviets. Even if Castro had somehow been the best friend of the president of USA, having an enemy-controlled island right next to your coast that they could use as a staging ground for an invasion is unnacceptable.

The problem is that the Horde jumped straight to nuking the place with no warning, which is generally seen as an extremely shitty thing to do. There's a protocol that people usually follow, and blockading the city and informing the defenders that they can either let the Horde to occupy the city or face military action would've been considerably better than suddenly dropping a nuke on a city that aside from having a military garrison also had a large civilian presense. Plus Garrosh's treatment of the survivors the Horde took as prisoners was hardly in accord with what is considered honorable conduct when dealing with prisoners at war.

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Something, something, is Anduin cute?

>>48502984

Mind you, you can know stuff about demons without actually being a warlock. You don't suddenly get black robes if you can identify what an Infernal is.

>>48503011
Warlocks can literally sense demons and demonic taint

>>48503019

So can skilled priests/paladins.

>>48503033
Which orcs don't have

>>48502978

Yeah but most people who want to use magic to serve their country tend towards Magecraft or the Priesthood.

>>48503046

Blood elves can be both of them.

>>48503064
They weren't a part of the Horde back then

Let's be honest: The real reason anyone has warlocks is 'They needed to invent a justification to let people play one of the most iconic warcraft things and just sorta took a crowbar to the two factions to allow it'

>>48502548
To be fair Demonhunters and Deathknights are mostly members of Alliance and Horde for gameplay reasons. They have their own factions (the Illidari and the Ebon Blade) who have their own leadership, and their members really should be friendly with each other despite faction differences.
In case of the DKs, they were Alliance/Horde heroes who were raised by the Lich King, so they likely still have loyalties for them after regaining their free will, but the DHs never really were part of the current Alliance/Horde (they're all members of the forces Illidan took with him to outland, so back when they left Azeroth the night elves hadn't joined the Alliance and the blood elves the Horde).

reminder that deception is a key part of being a warlock and therefore it's impossible to take any warlock's words at face value because they're most likely shrouded in multiple layers of lies and willful ignorance

How many more races could we paste druids into?

>>48503080

Trolls have had priests since forever.

>>48503000
>enemy-controlled island right next to your coast that they could use as a staging ground for an invasion is unnacceptable.
Cuba did nothing wrong and violated zero treaties in housing Soviet weapons.
Nor did Castro take any aggressive actions against the Americans directly.
US was just butt-puckered that their Bay of Pigs invasion failed(because Kennedy pussied out and called off air support). It was the Hawks in Washington who just wanted an excuse to start a war with the Russians that pushed for the aggressive actions saying that Russia having nukes within close range of the US was unacceptable. Even though the US had dozens of its nukes on Russia's doorstep to the point that most were out of date.
It was lucky Kennedy had those to offer as a token to the Soviets to end the situation peacefully despite the Hawks wanting to start World War 3.

>>48503107
Troll priests are pretty shit at detecting corruption though

Not sure if that's intentional, but it's what we're shown

>>48503101
there's a blood elf druid in the Botanica, and I don't think it'd be a huge stretch to make panda druids

>>48503095

>but the DHs never really were part of the current Alliance

Presumably because the Night Elves would string them all up after what happened with Illidan. The guy managed to be a multi-time traitor to his entire race. That takes work.

>>48503005
Hi wrathion.
Is he gonna be the mommy or daddy?

>>48503131
I wish they had just made demon hunter a warlock spec, then given night elves the option to be warlocks

>>48503141
daddy obviously. the black dragons need to repopulate somehow

>>48503095
DKs aree loyal to bolvat.
Sylvannas sayeth

>>48503141
Obviously they both have to boink some women on the side to keep their bloodlines going, even if their real passion is for each other

I mean come on, last non-corrupt black dragon and last in the line of Wrynn, that shit can't go to waste just because they'd rather fuck each other than reproductive partners

>>48502628
>Khadgar being serious instead of a giant memelord
what is this, WC2?

>>48503147

Making it a Warlock spec would have been a heap of work, since they share...basically no similarities mechanically with warlocks.

They'd work best as a Rogue spec. Weird dagger dodgy fuckers.

>>48503157
Who is gonna carry the eggs?

>>48503177
A melee warlock spec would be awesome though, and they lack the fluff connection to rogues

Also demon hunters as a class meant warlocks couldn't use metamorphosis anymore, and metamorphosis on demonology warlocks was fun

>>48503124
Huh? A witchdoctor warned Grom off the tainted pool, though he only sensed "Great Power" while far away.

>>48503141
Incubator probably.

>>48503165
Also Anduin's enormous harem of Dorfs.

>>48503202
Meh I like the idea of Demo going back to being a pet class.

>>48503202

Yeah but it would require a fucktonne more work as Warlocks don't really work mechanically for it.

They only barely have a connection to Warlocks anyway, using a very different method than warlocks do to access the powers.

>>48502692
He kept Neeru Fireblade around to fool him into thinking that Thrall trusted him. Thrall would then send adventurer's to Neeru as agent provocateurs to find branches of the Shadow Council.

>>48503228
How is it different?

>>48502692
IIRC, the quests involving Neeru Fireblade in vanilla were mostly about Thrall letting him hang around there because he wanted to keep an eye on him.
In the questline you eventually uncover he is working for the Burning Blade cult, but Thrall doesn't want to move against him because he'd just likely go into hiding. Instead he pretends to not know Neeru is a traitor, while keeping a close eye on him and intercepting any messages he sends to the cultists.

In vanilla, most warlock quests made it pretty clear that (aside from the Forsaken, who were fine with them) they are at best case barely tolerated for being useful, but dangerous and potentially unstable, assets. Being able to jump around in the middle of Orgrimmar/SW with a demon in tow is purely game mechanics.

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>>48503141
Anduin's the aggressive bottom whereas Wrathion's a submissive top.

>>48503157
>>48503165
>>48503203
>implying they can't magic up a baby
Do you guys think Metzen is enough of a mad man to make Wranduin canon?

>>48503239

Demon Hunters are more about possession than summoning. They draw demonic power into themselves vs channeling it outward.

It's sorta like Paladins and Priests being different classes. Both use the light but they use it in very different ways. Paladins channel it mostly internally into shields and strengthening their sword arm, Priests channel it mostly externally.

>>48503270
>Do you guys think Metzen is enough of a mad man to make Wranduin canon?
they barely even have the balls to make heterosexual intraspecies relationships canon, so it's doubtful

>>48499258
i haven't been keeping up with warcraft lore, what happened to Sylvanas?

>>48502898
Onork Torn-Heart, maybe? WoD timeline version of him is a warlock of the Shadow Council who realised Gul'dan's going to fuck up everything, regrets siding with him and defects to your faction (he becomes a garrison follower after you do a quest where he helps you to stop Gul'dan for fucking up Draenor).

The MU version is no longer really a warlock by the time you meet him in TBC, having stopped using fel magic and retired to become a pig-farmer, but he's still a former warlock of the Shadow Council who deeply regrets all the shit he did while following Gul'dan (the big difference is that I think the MU version unly realised his mistake after Gul'dan had fucked up the world).
He was involved in a pretty long questline, and I always thought he was a pretty cool character. He's essentially an old war criminal deeply regretful of the stuff he did and trying to atone by fixing some of the mess he was involved in causing.

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Stop posting this deviant filth right now

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>>48503270
Wranduin a cute

10/10 would attand wedding

>>48503376
It's too late Arthas. Purge the city before it can spread.

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>>48503376
This whole thread must be purged.

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>>48503460
No amount of purging will extinguish this love

This is the first time I've ever hoped a gay ship actually happens, or a ship at all for that matter, but these two just work too well together

>>48503490
Is he going to use his dragon horse cock to plant egg inside of Aduin's firm virgin butt?

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>>48503490
They sure do

>>48503177
>>48503202
Aside from metamorphosis being given to demolocks in Wrath (i think), there really isn't much in common with warlocks and DHs, aside from both having magic related to demons. Warlocks are cloth-wearing casters that use fel magic and summon demons. Demon Hunters are melee class (most likely leather-waring, as they don't wear heavy armor but don't run around in robes either) that uses demonic powers to augment their melee capabilities. Making them a warlock spec (or a rogue spec, for that matter) would be like making paladins a priest spec (or a warrior spec). Making DHs their own class is a sensible desicion, even if it did mean they had to remove metamorphosis from warlocks.

I wouldn't have been opposed to demolocks turning into a pseudo-DH melee build, though. I feel they probably should've gone that route as soon as they gave the meta, since turning into a demon kind of loses half the point when you can't go around ripping peoples' faces off.

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>>48503147
>>48503177
>>48503202
>>48503228
Illidan was originally a mage and the main DH initiate character in the novel Illidan was a hunter. Many of those that were turned to DHs by Illidan were those that sought him out after his escape to outland.

>>48503535
I actually think Anduin would be a reluctant top and Wrathion an aggressive bottom

Is Gilneas just the single city state? It seems to me as though the other Human Kingdoms always had other lands beyond their primary city, but Gilneas just seems to be Gilneas?

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>>48503376
Glad I could make it, Arthas.

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>>48503582
???

>>48503582
Gilneas owned everything south of the Greymane Wall as well as Pyrewood Village and Shadowfang Keep

>>48503546
I actually RP'd a combat rogue as a demon hunter back in vanilla and BC

Actual demon hunters being playable rocks my fucking socks

>>48503601
That's what I was referring to yeah, the area around the city is so small and insignificant compared to Stromgarde say?

I phrased it poorly, my bad.

>>48503582
Some of Silvepine Forest was part of Gilneas, and got left outside the wall. There's that one village near the is supposed to be originall part of Gilneas, and there are probably supposed to be other towns not in the game due to everything being scaled down.

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>>48503583

>>48502441
>They didn't use Necromancy untill the Cataclysm when Thrall wasn't in charge.

Not because of Thrall's rules or some noble reasons, but only because there was not a single trained necromancer amongst them. There were quests in vanilla Tirisfal about convincing few neutral necromancers about joining the Forsaken.

Even in WC3, when playing as Sylvanas, you had no access to necromancers or ghouls. They could still make abominations, even in WoW, but had a lack of raw material

>>48503601
I really fucking hope Guilneas is retaken at some point

But it's such a great quest hub for undead

To play both factions is to suffer

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>>48502656
Demon Sympathizers get out!!!!

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>>48503567
>implying it isn't the other way around
>implying Anduin isn't a huge slut

>>48503490
This might make some of you think I'm a huge pleb, but, although I've played WCIII, the reason why I got into WOW is because of this ship. The game's really fun to me, but I probably wouldn't have played it in the first place if I didn't hear about Wranduin. I know, most of you are going to think that's a really petty reason to play a game.

>>48503425
Have some high resolution.

>>48503601
>that
>a kingdom
>people actually want to live there
Hahahaha, always makes me laff.

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>>48503642
Never gets old.

>>48502588
I'm not sure if living is the right word, but I see your point

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>>48503623
Well not really, for reference, compare it to Alterac

>>48503005
Eh. I wouldn't go so far as cute. Besides maybe when he was a kid. But he is pretty likable, even if he is getting dangerously close to mary sue territory.

>>48502624
Thrall had few warlocks in vanilla, reasoning it's better to keep them close to keep a better watch on them then having them fucking around without supervision. They were loyal to him and pretty useful, because they knew Shadow Council's tricks.

>>48502628
That was pretty well-made.
Much better than Gul'dan's.
Can't wait for the Illidari short.

So when does the actual pre-expansion event start?

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>>48502741
Well, it was a hunched, crooked little fellow with a scraggly beard who imported all the big, savage orcs into the white man's land. Which they promptly pillaged and sacked for their own gain after squandering their own world.

>>48503782
>white man's land

They arrived in the black morass and swamp of sorrows, most people shown to be native to the region they arrived in are pretty mocha in terms of skin tone

>>48502741

Garrosh has the same problem I feel applies to most of Warcraft's lore.

I strongly suspect both were written by four different people who were never allowed to talk to each other, then each had their work submitted to Kossak for approval.

>>48503270
A Warcraft Romance that ends happily? Never.

>>48503829
Well as has been stated in a previous thread, one of the writers didn't know Garrosh was supposed to turn out good in the end, and everyone else went along with him being evil.

>>48503829
>then each had their work submitted to Kossak for approval.
and then he threw it all in the garbage and wrote more about Sylvanas and Varian

>>48503805
have we seen anyone from the Black Morass at all? I thought it was all troll ruins

>>48503855
>Well as has been stated in a previous thread, one of the writers didn't know Garrosh was supposed to turn out good in the end, and everyone else went along with him being evil.

Well that's just a new level of incompetent.

>>48503805
If they stayed in their morass, their would have been no issue.
They went and took their handouts from the land that actually had something to hand out.

>>48503147
Removal of warlock's Glyph of Demon Hunting and thus the end of most fun warlock build, and shitty Horde Garrison unfitting belf were the reason I migrated to Alliance full-on after WoD started

>>48503642
I don't think my life was complete until i read this.

>>48503908
>BElf
You won't be missed, fucking trash.

>>48503918
t. Garrosh

>>48503908
Man I miss that glyph.

I miss all the mini specs you uses to be able to do. The pure DPS class that manages to tank because you got tired of /lfm. All blood DK parties doing strat right after WotLK came out.


Speaking of Glyphs though, man have they fucked over scribes hard. A lot of the old cosmetic glyphs you could get are now toys you can buy, removing even more of their very limited content. I think they might actually have less to do then engineers now.

>>48503855
.....Source? I don't doubt you. I'm just curious. Because that genuinely sound too stupid to be real.

>>48503908
>>48503944
the one glyph I actually miss is the one that reduces Anti-Magic Shell's cooldown by the percentage of the shield remaining if it times out. No more running through doomfires and getting a 20 second CD because they don't do any damage if the debuff can't get applied

>>48503565
The Alliance-side Warlocks were originally mages, too, who poked too much at the dark arts and found a source offering greater power than their studies in the Arcane.
Guess it would technically apply to Forsaken Warlocks since they used to be human.

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So you're at the club and this guy comes up and slaps your girl aside and tells you to drink this.
Wat do?

>>48504022
WE

>>48503944
There was a glyph that refreshed slice and dice and recuperate on a kill

That was my favorite fucking glyph

>>48504035
WUZ CONQUERORS AND SHEIT

>>48503944
>The pure DPS class that manages to tank because you got tired of /lfm
I miss HKM and Illidan.

>>48504022
I would smite the filthy orc brute with my mighty greathammer

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>>48504022
I high five him and chug it. Then we spitroast my gf, aggra.

>>48503490
Purging might not extinguish this love. But Wrathion being just morally ambiguous enough to quality as potential raid fodder might..

>>48504095
>Killing Wrathion
Please don't do this.

>>48504022
Drink it. I have a girlfriend, so i'm already beyond saving anyway.

>>48504095
If this happens I will request my character be turned into instance trash

Same if jaina becomes a boss

>>48504169
pretty much this. the outrage alone will make blizzard reconsider.
Actually, think about it. Other than Kael and Arthas, no major WC3 character has become evil in wow.

>>48503694
Eh. It's stupid. But I've heard of worse reasons to start playing wow.

Next expansion: World of Warcraft: Bitches be crazy. Featured bosses: Jaina Proudmoore as the most baddly written character developement in the game, ex-Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner as the Bitch Queen , Alexstrasza as the only Aspect that wasn't yet driven insane and had to be put down, Magatha Grimtotem as the bitch everyone forgot about, Tyrande Whisperwind as what millenia of military experience? And Queen Azshara as it's about time to do something about her

>>48504200

Arthas was pretty evil in WC3. He didn't really become evil in WoW. Kael too.

>>48504229
yeah, I mean, no major character got blammed.
so our original waifu is safe.

>>48504229
Kael was a good guy in WC3. He didn't go bonkers until BC.

>>48504200
When has outrage ever made blizzard reconsider a story decision? Besides maybe Garrosh.

>>48504294

He wasn't really on the sane end in WC3 even if it was understandable. He helped take over a hellscape to help a traitor rule over demons.

>>48504294
>some wacky demon elf who tries to destroy northrend and drown the world
>he tells that instead of discipline and meditation, you have to drink the fel juice
>follows him blindly even after seeing what fel power does to orcs.
kael was an idiot

>>48504327
kael was my waifu you shitter

>>48504251
Illidan got killed as well (he apparently gets better in Legion). Plus a bunch of supporting characters like KT, Anub'arak and Varimathras.

Illidan and Friends are the only non-evil (they were morally ambiquous, but not really evil in the same sense as somebody like KT or Arthas) ones that have gotten offed in WoW, though. Although apparently Cenarius gets corrupted in Legion , and is going to be killed (again).

>>48504295
minor stuff. especially if it comes from the horde players.
>tyrande is hostile to the horde in legion, the horde players cry and say that she is making her feels hurt.
>kosak immediately rectifies it and posts it on twitter

>>48503623
that's game size, look at >>48503743 for reference.

>>48504363
KT died twice and is a fucking lich. He's fine

>>48504363
>Although apparently Cenarius gets corrupted in Legion , and is going to be killed (again).

Since we kill him inside the Emerald Dream, will he die for good this time?

>>48504363
We don't find KT's phylactery, and anub'arak and varimathras are side characters.

>>48504359
you're waifu a shit.

>>48504383
we kill ysera too!
I love raising the stakes with every expansion, just like my DPS!

>>48504383
Probably. I mean, did he do fucking anything after Cata? Not sure why they revived him in the first place.

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Jaina deserves her vengeance

The Horde must be dismantled

>>48504448
pretty sure, everyone sensible on the alliance agrees.

>>48504317
Kael was just the right mix of desperate and honorable to get caught up in Illidan's mess WC3.

On the one hand he's politically desperate because of Quel'thalas being sacked, eliminating his powerbase, and then being declared a fugitive-- with physical desperation then layered on top because the Sunwell is gone and he and his people are all now magic junkies in dire need of a fix.

Then his friend and ally Vashj says her master can hook him up with both a new homeland and a source of magic, and in exchange he has to swear fealty, which he does. And once he's made that deal, he can't back out because he can't cut his people off from the good stuff he's getting and also won't betray his new liege-lord.

It isn't until he hits the fel too hard and goes genuinely nuts that he betrays Illidan.

>Campaign in the third War
>Players follow Arthas
>Are in Northrend
>The players get In character scared and want home.
>Attempting to convince other soldiers. The Entire expansion is suicide, stupid etc.
>Get AMAZING successes.
>Now most of the soldiers says "Fuck you Arthas, we want home".

Ideas how Arthas could respond?

>>48504518
doesn't he kill a few people while there because they want to go home?

>>48504518
"Too bad the ships burned, guys."

>>48504448
Because dismantling the horde worked so well the first time.

Do you people really want another green jesus?

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>>48504518
This is literally what happens in wc3

>>48504518
"guys, these mercs just burned your ships, guess what, now we are stuck in this mess :DDD"

>>48504448
Can we dismantle the timeline instead?

Nozdormu could help, we could reset everything to after Arthas died. Save Theramore, save the Horde, save Magni, kill Moira already

>>48504593
No, they were ordered back by Uther.

>>48503601
>>48503694
>>48503623
>>48503743
Glineas did also include some land north of the wall as well.

>>48504625
Moira really manage to grow up, and Magni gets better in Legion.

It's the other shit that sucks.

>>48504518
This: >>48504547
Same thing he did in WC3 when his soldiers were told to pack up and return to Lordaeron

>>48504626
Fair enough, but is that not essentially the same? Soldiers are told to leave, soldiers want to leave, then he makes it impossible for them to do so

>>48504588
The Alliance's mistake was not rounding up all the filthy mongrels and marching their asses back through the portal

That would have fixed everything, that or just slicing open every single one of their fat green necks

Hordies constantly preach and complain about the internment camps when they were the single most merciful and downright generous thing that could have been done to genocidal alien invaders

I've said it before and I'll say it again, fuck the horde, particularily orcs

>>48504677
t. Jaina

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>>48501244
Un'Goro Crater. Orcs with Dinosaurs.

>>48504677
It is possible that would stop the third war. Alliance was concerned about orc attacks on iternment camps and considered the spreading contagion a minor problem. Without orcs to distract them, they would investigate sooner, before it could ge out of hands and prevent Stratholme from being infected.

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>>48504448
Sith Lord Jaina coming up.

>>48504706
nah, that anon is right though. The horde weren't natives of azeroth then, and they had destroyed huge chunks of the eastern kingdoms. they should have been shoved through the dark portal or killed off.

>>48504813
>The horde weren't natives of azeroth then,
trolls and goblins are more native to Azeroth than any Alliance member but the elves

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>>48504718
Not a bad idea

>>48504022
Ask him what I must give in return.

>>48504874
Trolls and goblins weren't originally part of the horde either, and the fact that they betrayed their world to the invaders makes them even worse

>>48504938
Not much Hellscream, just your firm round boipussi

>>48504813
Trolls and Tauren are native to Azeroth, infact they've been around longer than any of the pre-WoW Alliance races. Neighter of em also really did anything particularly bad (Tauren are chill as fuck, and while other troll tribes have done all sorts of stuff, the Darkspears are pretty "civilizaed" by troll standard and just hung out on their island until Thrall showed up to save them from murlocks).
Pretty much everything bad Horde has done is the fault of orcs or undead. Well, BE had the whole "let's steal a holy windchime and suck his magic, and put glowing green demon-crystals all around out city" phase, but they got over it and actually have been pretty decent people since then.

>>48504222
Jaina needs a hug badly, Alex should spend some time talking with Kalec and Noz so she doesn't go insane from isolation, Sylvanas should accept that she's dead already and go to sleep, Magatha's Team Rocket-tier anyway, Azshara should seriously do something about the whole "can only survive underwater" thing if she wants to stay relevant, and Tyrande needs some blood back in her veins.

>>48504874
I am talking about the orcs dingus.
The trolls tried to ally with the horde to retake quel'thalas and lost.

The gobbos went back to being happy merchants.

The problem lies with the orcs and ogres.

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>>48504959
>More sodomy

>>48504942
>the invaders
you mean like the armies of Titanforged that have been swarming over Azeroth for 25,000 years?

>>48505077
You have a point.

No Aliens, Trolls Only, Well Of Eternity.

>>48504625
>Can we dismantle the timeline instead?
Infinite dragonflight bullshit was a mistake.
They should just go "Noz performs temporal healing ritual that only leaves a unified timeline+Alternative Draenor for the time being"

>>48505077
So the mogu are a-ok but for some reason tyr's vrykull and the earthen are not?

>>48505218
yes? The Mogu recognize the legitimate rulers of Azeroth while the other ones don't

>>48505077
>>48505338
Reminder that Azeroth apparently IS a titan.

>>48505338
Trolls wouldn't have even existed if it weren't for the Titanforged. Azeroth belongs to its original inhabitants, the elementals.

>>48504733
The Lich King would have created a different distraction before setting his plans into motion. And without Orcs Azeroth is pretty much fucked during the third war.

I mean, everybody coming together to defeat a greater threat was the whole point of Warcraft 3. I know Wow forgets that sometimes, but i sort of hope the fans don't.

>>48504677
The first option might have worked if the Dark Portal wasn't reduced to a smokey crater at the end of Warcraft 2. The second one would have worked i suppose. Until everybody dies horribly for the reasons i just mentioned. Also, genocide is generally frowned upon.

>live for 25k years on azeroth and become peaceful inhabitants of it and live in relative harmony with it's races
>some ayyliens try to kill you all and you win
>Now those ayys have the same right to azeroth that you do.

>>48505436
>Implying they havn't become peaceful inhabitants of it and live in relative harmony with its' races

>>48505479
>Implying Mop and Cata didn't completely fuck that part up.

>>48505406
Its probably going to end up being the WoW equivalent of Azathoth. And that'll be why the Legion have an unnaturally large erection for conquering it instead of the "countless" other worlds they talk about.

>>48505436
>any of the Titanforged other than earthen
>peaceful and living in relative harmony
???

>>48504547
>>48504594
>>48504593
How could I forget the mission?

Should I give the players a chance to prevent it?

>>48505532
sure. Just sabotage the artillery.

>>48505532
>Should I give the players a chance to prevent it?
Fuck no.
They're stuck in the cold with blond Anakin as he turns into Darth Emo.

>>48504718
>Un'gororgimmar
Fund it.

>>48504718
It would solve all their food problems (dino meat, super-fertile soil due to all the volcanic activity), space problems ( no one gives a fuck about it and its surrounding zones), and provide an outlet for all the aggression that young orcs now have( dinos, bandits and Sillithid).

Warhammer Ork spores contaminate each continent.
Which is the first continent to fall to the Orks and which one is last?

>>48505518
Sargeras wants the last titan. He killed all others already.

>>48505775
Plus. Orcs riding devilsaurs.

A bit off topic. But is there any reason lorewise why Un'Goro Crater is so awesome?

>>48505960

It was literally a giant testing chamber for the Titans.

>>48505532
Up to you. I find the idea that the expedition left the ships spread over the whole coastline and unguarded more than a little stupid, but I can accept that it was just a convenience for the sake of gameplay in that mission and the ships were in fact together in some safe harbor and with a minimum crew that was murdered by the mercenaries.

Also the idea that they had to cut down a whole forest to get through is ridiculous.

>>48505960
Un'goro, Sholazar and Vale of Eternal Blossoms were all Titan experimentation zones, which is why they're so lush and nice

>>48505907

Pandaria is probally going to go down first Especially now that the Mantid and the Mogu's are mostly dead.

The Eastern Kingdoms are going to fall next. I imagine Stormwind is going to go down first. And Ironforge last.

Kalmidor is probally going to hold out quite long. If only because the night elves can resort to guerrilla tactics if all else fails. But i doubt they could hold out forever.

Northrend has the undead scourge. Who i imagine will keep the Orcs quite busy for a long time. Assuming they can raise orcs, they might even win.

>>48503331
Very little since WotL. She invaded Gillneas and that about the last relevant thing she did. But she is coming back in full force in Legion and becomes a major character again. IIRC she is to be the new warcheaf after Vol'jin goes MIA or something.

>>48506005
>Northrend has Wyrmrest Temple, Sholazar Basin, Ulduar and the rest of the Storm Peaks
>Pandaria has the Vale and Mogu'shan Vaults
>Kalimdor has Un'goro Crater
>Eastern Kingdoms has Uldaman
why did the Titans hate the original continents so much

>>48506409
wait, Kalimdor had Uldum too. Why did the Titans hate the EK so much?

>>48506409
>original continents
Excuse you senpai but when the titans made their stations there was only one continent.

>>48506443
What about Tyr fuckin around in EK?

>>48506443
Well, the Eastern Kingdoms weren't their own thing when the Titans were around.

>>48506470
did he build anything there or just lose his hand?
>>48506506
>>48506444
still doesn't really explain why they had such a hard on for the north and south, are the poles special somehow?

>>48506592
Guess the temperate climate didn't appeal to them.

>>48506592
Yes, they are special because they came up later. In vanilla where EK and Kalimdor were made, titans hadn't played very big role in the story. They only started to really show up from WotLK onwards.

Also, Uldaman is buried in the ground, unlike other titan locations and is much bigger than what we've seen. And EK equivalent of Sholazzar/Un'goro could've been destroyed in the Sundering. There are also titan excavations in Loch Modan (likely a part of Uldaman complex), Wetlands (maybe what's left from "EK Un'goro"?), and troggs all over Khaz Modan. Ironforge itself have titan stuff in the basement, but it's not entirely clear if the dwarves dragged it there or if it was already present

>>48506592
>did he build anything there or just lose his hand?

He died.

>>48506766
There wouldn't have needed to BE an EK Sholazzar/Un'goro since when the Titans were fucking around with Azeroth, it was all one big continent.

>>48506443
Presumably, the Eastern Kingdoms also held their own Titanic petri dish(es) until the Night Elves destroyed most of the planet.

File: LegionWorldMap.jpg (365KB, 1002x668px) Image search: [Google]

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All these and still no Kul Tiras

>>48506918
So EK has moved even further east after Cata, eh? And I think the Broken Isles were more southern in WC3...

>>48506947
Well, no, they havn't moved quite yet. They're about to when Legion releases though.

Which I desu don't mind, I doubt that the ocean is up to scale.

They still need a south seas expansion though ffs

>>48506839
EK in current state of the world, east side of Kalimdor back when titans were fucking around

>>48506918
Man, continental drift on Azeroth is a bitch. How many expansions before Eastern Kingdoms hit Kalimdor from the other side?

>>48507019
>They still need a south seas expansion though ffs

It's called Mists of Pandaria. I doubt we'll ever get anything from that general direction (and yes, I'm aware that Pandaland doesn't really count)

>>48504874
Nelves are magic mutated trolls

>>48507033
It's just dumb writing that there even was a Sholazzar for anyone to ever feel there should be ANOTHER Un'Goro.
Un'goro was just a reference to the real Ngorongoro Crater in Africa with a bunch of Land of the Lost references.
Sholazzar was just an attempt to do Un'gogo 2.0, But This Time With More Titans.

>>48504874
>trolls and goblins are more native to Azeroth than any Alliance member but the elves

Nope. Humans, Dwarfs and Gnomes are all originally hewn from the very earth of Azeroth.
Trolls are just pondscum who came from titan gardens.

>>48506947
Actually they were northeast of the Maelstrom since at LEAST TFT if not WC2.

They just didn't include a massive mountain and several other areas that "Never Sank"

>>48507079
MoP scratched some of my exploration and shipwreck itch, but I want MORE.

Instead we get super highstakes nonsense.

>>48507052
World of Warcraft: The Un-Sundering

>>48507137
how does that kool aid taste Brann?

>>48507134
Sholazar had been in the lore since the Warcraft RPG. It had been in long before Wrath started development.

>>48507145
>MoP scratched some of my exploration and shipwreck itch, but I want MORE.
>Instead we get super highstakes nonsense.

We already had MoP and WoD.
Time for things to get dangerous again, cata was eleven billion years ago.

>>48507145
>but I want MORE.
read this in Gurtogg Bloodboil's voice desu

>>48507174
Better than the ashes of yer empires I bet.

>>48501961
>>48502044

You guys know that after the burning of Stormwind, when the old horde ravaged the southern eastern kingdoms and drove basically all the humans there across the sea, and then the northern eastern kingdoms were ravaged by the plague, humans should really have a tiny population too, right? Every single human nation there was got its shit kicked in by the end of Warcraft III.

Honestly, with the night elves being either asleep or lesbians for thousands of years, the tauren being nomads who were on the run from the centaur when they met the orcs, the orcs being alien army remnants, horde trolls being some guys the orcs picked up off an island, blood elves being the ragged survivors of a war with the undead and then also addiction, horde goblins being survivors of their island getting blown up, humans having ALL their kingdoms ruined except one and only because it was wrecked first and got rebuilt by the time the others were finished being wrecked, worgen being an even smaller subset of humans who survived another wrecking, the gnomes having the whole gnomeregan thing, draenei being the survivors of a deadly crash of one spaceship, and the horde and alliance pandaren being emigrants from one relatively small island...

... the only races that should have large numbers are the dwarves and the forsaken, really.

>>48507331
delete this right now mon

>>48507337
Only dwarves, really. if we're talking pre-Cata.

Pre-Cata the Forsaken had a constantly dwindling population since they kept taking casualties in conflicts but had no way to replenish their numbers. Although they probably had a hell of a population boom during Cata, though.

>>48505532
>>48504518

infinite dragons get out

>>48506104
Now what we really want is troll empire at its height vs orks

>>48507137
Fucking hate that retcon

File: Guldanmetzen.jpg (33KB, 383x486px) Image search: [Google]

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So, right, here's a concept. The Gul'Dan in Heroes of the Storm is explicitly the main timeline Gul'dan, so we know he's still on Blizzard's minds. And we know from the books that the Skull of Gul'dan had MT Gul'dan's spirit attached to it, trying to speak to its users and corrupt them. It had its power drained to fuel Illidan's transformation into a demon, but presumably that wouldn't have affected the spirit link. And we know Illidan was the last person to have the Skull, and him and alternate Gul'dan are both going to be in this expansion.

So what if Gul'dan gets the Skull of Gul'dan?

Double Gul'dan buddies?

Some Weird Time Shit about not touching your alternate self happens, and the main Gul'dan's spirit merges into his alternate self to give him memories and knowledge from both timelines?

Apparently demons have a thing about being one being even in multiple timelines now, with like WoD Archimonde being the same Archimonde from WCIII and remembering us. Would it be too far-fetched?

Would it be good? "Double Gul'dan" is kinda silly, but in a kinda possibly cool way, I think.

>>48507585
>Apparently demons have a thing about being one being even in multiple timelines now

I still don't know why they did this, since it just cheapens the sacrifices done at the Battle of Mount Hyjal.

>>48507585
>So what if Gul'dan gets the Skull of Gul'dan?
UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAH

>>48507585
>Gul'DoubleDan, owner of the Doomsdale Dimmaclan.

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>>48507585
The Heroes of the Storm team is separate from the WoW team. Which is why they've ignored WoW Jaina and kept her at her WC3 optimistic state.

>>48507689
I had a hearty chuckle. I'll be Dimmadamned.

>>48507718
Izzat Jaina?

>>48507585
I realized they WoD Gul'dan's appearance is the same as he looked in the old WC2 manual. I'm actually really glad they didn't forget a detail like that.

>>48507764
it's fan art of the Lunar Jaina skin from HotS

File: Warcraft_Guldan_Submits_to_Doomhammer_01-buffed.jpg (45KB, 520x546px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48507770
The spines are new. But yeah, they did a good job on old Guldy.

File: 1467489509732.jpg (25KB, 433x380px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48507585
>like WoD Archimonde being the same Archimonde from WCIII and remembering us.

>>48507797
Neat.

>>48507820
Afrasiabi is retarded, don't worry about it

File: H2AXKFC.png (595KB, 590x790px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48507764
>>48507797
>>48507821

>>48507718
>The Heroes of the Storm team is separate from the WoW team.

Then why are a bunch of new abilities in Legion literally copied from Heroes of the Storm?

Like, DK's have wraith walk from Leoric, paladins have Tyrael's sword teleport, et cetera.

>>48508002
Because the WoW team is hacks who can't do shit for themselves.

>>48508002
because 90% of Legion is things pulled from their other games
blood DKs also sort of get Drain Hope, but it sucks compared to the other talents on the tier

>>48507840
I would nuke her city

>>48508216
That's a Chinese dress not Jap.

>>48508348
>Forsaken druids turn into welcome bears
spooky

new thread
>>48508755
>>48508755
>>48508755