Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>48468250
pretty much all of this. They made Arthas so OP that the only way he could be taken out was by him going completely retarded, AND Tirion pulling an insta-kill out of his ass. If he'd just killed Tirion instead of freezing him, he would have won and Scourged everything

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>>48468225

>>48468377
Iirc, the implication was that good Arthas was somewhere in there holding the LK back and driving the bad decisions.

>>48468416
Which is boneheaded in its own way, since Arthas certainly wasn't holding anything back before he became the lich king.

>>48468426
>>48468416
and I think Arthas destroys his heart to prevent feeling a link to his old life anyway

>>48468426
Nega-Arthas was spending some energy dominating Nerzhul maybe? Hence being less able to supress the tendrils of his soul creeping back out of Frostmourne to weaken his will?

Also the thing about the "Scourge Tide," Arthas wanted to RULE, and didn't have the focus to keep the Scourge from just destroying everything he intended to make his kingdom of the dead while fighting the Alliance, Horde etc. Not PERFECT logic, but it makes a certain degree of sense.

>>48468377
He was significantly softened up before Tirion finished him.

>>48468775
>He was significantly softened up before Tirion finished him.

Tirion didn't even finish him unless you waited an hour. All Tirion does is break his sword from behind.

>>48468416
blizzard doesn't do
>implications
they go full ham.

>tfw the Mogu are too tied to the story of Pandaria to come back in a way that doesn't feel silly
secret Broken Isles Mogu when

What do you think about the implication that elune created the naaru?

Why is there some talk of characters betraying their factions in Legion? Am I missing something here....some kind of quest-line or event that has people thinking this?

>>48469852
Player characters or NPCs?

Because a lot of good NPCs are being fucking RUINED with legion traitor nonsense.

Like ALL of Duskwood.

>>48469704
It's hinted she created some, not all, for now. The implications is that she's probably the lights equivalent of a void lord, her creating a naaru prime and all.

>>48469892
NPCs. I know there's been a lot of fuckery, but I don't see why people are expecting racial leaders to turn rogue.

>>48469953
Jaina's arc seems to be gearing up to her going rogue (she already leaves her position in Kirin Tor when they vote to allow Horde PCs back in Dalaran during the Legion pre-quests), and given how she's acting there isn't much of a jump to her either siding with the Legion or unleashing some world-threathening artefact on her personal vengeance-queat against the Horde.

>>48470024
So she's pulling a Malygos

>>48469892
>a lot of good NPCs are being fucking RUINED with legion traitor nonsense.

No.
Some irrelevant NPCs are getting some screen time again.

>>48469704
Makes sense, Elune has always been hinted at being much more than just a wild god like the Loa.

>>48470108
No, it's pretty much ruining them to completely change them to demented legion cultists when things had been slowly getting better for them.

>>48470124
>No, it's pretty much ruining them to completely

There's nothing to ruin.
They're an irrelevant footnote.

>>48469892
Duskwood? What the hell is happening in Duskwood and why is it ruining the place?

>>48470139
Maybe if you don't care about them to begin with.
Greymaine has has plenty of development, wanting to lead his people, be more peaceful, and now he is being rewritten as a mad dog so their can be more character conflict.

>>48470177
Because the mayor and his guard-captain daughter have the same last name "Ebonlocke" as the badguy in the warlock green fire chain they turn evil along with all of their militia and murder almost all the civilians in Darkshire. (Watcher Ladimore turns evil too)

It's complete and utter bullshit.

>>48470177
The Legion have converted Darkshires guard.

>>48470218
>Maybe if you don't care about them to begin with.

There's really not much to care for in Darkshire.

>he is being rewritten as a mad dog

He's no mad dog. He's justifiably trying to stop the Forsaken.

>>48470250
IIRC, they actually listened to played feedback and had Ladimore and some of the other named NPCs remain good. It's only most of the Darkshire militia that randomly turns evil.

Which is still stupid, mind you.

>>48470024
I really hope she doesn't turn evil. It would be way more intrestring and powerful if she just kind of fucked off. Like she retires from the alliance and goes to live as a hermit somewhere far away.

>>48470292
Did they still turn the Ebonlockes? Because that's literally blizzard assuming a name that means "Black hair" makes them EBIL.

I'd also rather half the militia turn out to be shapeshifted lesser dreadlords so we can rescue the,

>>48470369
>that's literally blizzard assuming a name that means "Black hair" makes them EBIL.

No it's not. They turned the characters that suited their story.

>I'd also rather half the militia turn out to be shapeshifted lesser dreadlords

Yeah, demons just shouldn't corrupt anyone. Town guards should be absolute moral paragons who can't fall because that hurts your feelings.

>>48470250
>>48470273
I...actualy dont know how to feel about that. Duskwood is easily my favorite vanilla zone. And yet i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn kind of fits with the zone.

The reason why i feel Duskwood is such a great zone is because of its dark atmosphere. Everything about the zone is just kind of awful. Even its history seems to be nothing but tragedy and death. I mean, the place is pretty much unchanged in Cata. With a lot of the major villains having somehow been resurrected.

So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.

>>48470409
Demons don't generally do subtle corruption of non-arcanists the way the Old Gods do. They tend towards outright mind control.or "Hey, here's some sweet green koolade!" which seems unlikely to work on the Duskwood militia.

>>48470604
Eh, I always considered Duskwood more Nobledark, with people standing together against the night.

>>48469953
>It's hinted she created some, not all, for now. The implications is that she's probably the lights equivalent of a void lord, her creating a naaru prime and all.

Spiritual crisis incoming?

>>48469953

>her creating a naaru prime and all.

Where is THAT implied?

You are a turncoat warlock masquerading as a Horde commander shortly after the Battle of Mount Hyjal. You are trying to raise a fel-corrupted army. Besides quill boar and centaur, what other races would you unite to join your cause?

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>>48470652
>Demons don't generally do subtle corruption of non-arcanists the way the Old Gods do
I don't have any pictures of laughing dreadlords but come on man, they litterally do that

>>48470604
>So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.

Exactly, Creepytown is the perfect place for demon cultists to show up.
I really didn't get the bad reaction.
People crying about how Sarah Ladimore turned evil despite the one thing of note about her was that she had a father who turned evil.
People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.

>>48470652
>Demons don't generally do subtle corruption

Yes they do. They always have.
Sargeras corrupted an unborn child.
Kil'jaeden began the corruption of the Orcs by appearing as Ner'zhul's dead wife.
Mal'Ganis baited Arthas across two continents.

>the way the Old Gods do.

Old Gods are way less subtle.
Fine one day
SHUB NIG N'ZOTH MUP DA DOO DIDDA PO MO GUB BIDDA BE DAT TUM MUHFUGEN BIX NOOD COF BIN DUB HO MUFUGGA the next.

>>48470757
Grimtotem tauren

>>48470760
>>48470767
Perhaps "Subtle" was the wrong word, I mostly mean the "Apparently vectorless" nature of old god corruption.

You have to be CONVINCED to hit the Koolaid or get outright mind controlled for the most part.
>>48470767
>People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.
Oh this is also dumb, I'm mad about Ysera and Cenarius too, don't get me wrong.

>>48470841
>Oh this is also dumb, I'm mad about Ysera and Cenarius too

You really shouldn't be mad about that is my point.
Sargeras, a titan, was corrupted.
If Titans can be corrupted then Dragons and Demi Gods can be too.

>>48470841
>implying we're going to kill Cenarius and not just hit him until he turns friendly like the bosses in Ulduar

>>48470924
His stepmom ends up pretty dead, and one of those Ulduar bosses gets re-corrupted.

>>48470923
Sargeras CHOSE evil for reasons that have always been part of his character, slightly changed via the BC and then Chronicle retcons, but still intrinsically part of his character.

Not because his name sounded like another villain's.

>>48470757
Raptors

>>48471033
>Sargeras CHOSE evil for reasons

What's your point?
Even beings as great as him can go evil, so anything lesser is fair game.

>>48470757
Murlocs obviously. Also that one evil goblin company you fight a few times. And finnaly, the druids of the fang.

>>48471095
Not in a sudden TWEEST, or the way Ysera was apparently just zapped by some oversized satyr with tiny legs and suddenly became nrecoverably evil
>>48471101
>>48470757
Harpies

>>48470767
>Sargeras corrupted an unborn child.
Technically, possessed. Mediev himself was never really corrupted, but having the Fiery Lord of the Burning Legion living inside your skull and occasionally highjacking your body kinds of tends to fuck you up. However, once he was killed and Sargeras banished, his spirit was now fully in control of his actions and was decidedly a good guy (as we see in WC3, where he comes back from the dead to warn people of the coming Legion invasion, and leads them to Kalimdor).

>>48468225
What realm does teeg play on?
Just hopped onto ED-US fresh and it's been going pretty smoothly thus far. The people there are nice and /tg/ got name-dropped once.

>>48471033
>and one of those Ulduar bosses gets re-corrupted.
who, Thorim? He seems pretty incompetent at staying in a useful state of mind

>>48471130
>Not in a sudden TWEEST

Warcraft is not some series of novels, it;s an expansion based game. There is only so long they can set things up.
But in this case it's actually been building for quite some time, seeing as Ysera and Cenarius end up corrupted by the Emerald Nightmare, which has been present since classic and has shown itself to be quite successful at corrupting beings tied to the dream.

>>48471198
Hodir.

>>48470767
>Exactly, Creepytown is the perfect place for demon cultists to show up.
I really didn't get the bad reaction.
People crying about how Sarah Ladimore turned evil despite the one thing of note about her was that she had a father who turned evil.
People crying about random assholes turning evil despite the fact demi gods and enlightened beings have been corrupted.

Ladimore turning evil is kind of unfortunate. It would have been better if she had died instead from a narrative perspective. But it does kind of work in a sad tragic irony kind of way. Like father, like daughter i suppose.

>>48471235
Woops. That post kind of went wrong. Sorry.

>>48471235
People want Metzen to keep his powdery hands off their waifus.

And part of the reaon I liked Commander Ebonlocke was how she essentially seemed like a sane, human Maiev.

>>48471235
>>48470767
There's very different flavours of "turning evil". Duskwood's troubles were Scourge-aligned undeath, rampant worgen, and the occational lone madman, all exacerbated by a lack of support from Stormwind. They've never, ever had anything to do with demons.

>>48471531
>They've never, ever had anything to do with demons.

And now demons are showing up a lot more, so they can get more involved with demons.

>>48471365
Stop blaming Metzen for Kosak's mistakes

Unless you're blaming Metzen for letting Kosak get his grubby mitts all over the story, in which case go right ahead

>>48471531
>Duskwood's troubles were Scourge-aligned undeath,
Not exactly, and they did get a lot of magical fallout from Karazhan

>>48471661
I know it's Kosak, but Kosak's not as fun to make cokehead jokes about.

>>48471594
They CAN, but it's still really fucking jarring when it's had nothing to do with their previous characterization. Fucking Razor Hill would have been a more sensible choice.

>>48471765
>Fucking Razor Hill would have been a more sensible choice.

Nope.
Stormwind needs to be involved because it's a quest with Garona and the daggers she used to assassinate the King.
Darkshire makes sense in that the people have a grudge against Stomwind for not supporting them.

>>48470139
no they are not.

>>48470604
>So i kind of feel this sudden face heel turn of the militia fucking everything up fits. its just another bloody page in this accursed places history.
the only reason Darkshire got fucked up was because the alliance wasn't sending any soldiers there and jitters fucked up. that was it. The war is over, the alliance is stronger than ever, and suddenly a town that was a steadfast part of the alliance through thick and thin becomes lolcorrupt to up the stakes

>>48471819
>No relevance outside of an optional low level questing zone
>Some how not irrelevant

>>48471811
>Stormwind needs to be involved because it's a quest with Garona and the daggers she used to assassinate the King.
>Darkshire makes sense in that the people have a grudge against Stomwind for not supporting them.
And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.

It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.

>>48471905
A zone that made the world feel less like an amusement park/soap opera hybrid.

>>48471811
Why not go for Lakeshire, then? They were left to fend for themselves just as much as Darkshire was, and they at least have a history with orc warlocks and corrupted mages.

Why does anyone even pay attention to post-Cata lore?

It's all terrible, maybe there's a few things worth keeping but overall Warcraft lore is more interesting and more stable if you throw it all out the window

>>48471905
>if its not a big raid boss or daily questzone at max level, its irrelevant.
did you even play the game pre cata? There was an aura of decay around stormwind. The king was gone, nobles were tearing everything up, and the soldiers were firmly in their barracks.

>>48471940
>And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.

So what? A Stormwind guard couldn't have issues?

>It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.

That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.

>>48471972
>Why not go for Lakeshire, then?

Tone of the zone doesn't fit as well.
But sure, I've no issue with some bumfucks getting corrupted by a powerful otherworldly force.

>>48471972
Oh that would have been awesome

Give them first-war conjurers that summon scorpids. The conjurers' magic did always seem a tad suspect compared to mages we see in later games

>>48472030
>That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.
why would someone want to kill andy? he is a useless cuck that cripples the alliance more effortlessly than a tactical nuke on theramore.

>>48472017
>did you even play the game pre cata?

Yes.

>There was an aura of decay around stormwind.

Not sure what this has to do with NPCs in Darkshire not being relevant.

>>48471994
>Why does anyone even pay attention to post-Cata lore?
because MoP is post-Cata and it has the best lore post WC3

>>48472095
Because he's the last in the line of Wrynn

Also he's one of the few priests in the world canonically capable of reviving the dead

>>48472122
Except MoP lore, while cool in regards to Y'shaarj and the history of Pandaria, was ruined by the entire plotline of MoP being fuckawful.

Also they backflipped on Garrosh's character growth, which was kind of dumb

>>48472125
He couldn't rezz his dad. he is useless. And why would a legion that exists across all timelines care about a wrynn?
>>48472109
it made the entire human questing experience into an adventure. Redridge with yowler, the necromancer terrorizing the people of darkshire, and westfall being overrun by defias goons were all the result of political manipulation. It made the world feel far more alive than the bullshit self contained memezones that the post cataclysm game had.

Also the small fact that it was the last major alliance outpost before stranglethorn made it more important than westfall.

>>48472149
I thoroughly enjoyed the alliance start quest in MoP. I redid it multiple times until ride of the valkyries stopped playing.

Horde don't surf.

>>48472030
>>And yet the head of the cult was a high-ranking Stormwind guard.
>So what? A Stormwind guard couldn't have issues?
>>It would have made more sense for the REINFORCEMENTS Stormwind eventually sent to Duskwood between Cata and Legion to have turned.
>That would make no sense at all, why would the Legion care about moving troops out of Stormwind into Darkshire? The whole plot centred around trying to kill Anduin.
They needed someplace distant to perform the sacrifices to enchant gear in order to breach the palace with a portal.

So the corrupt guard sends some of his fellows to Duskwood.

Makes more sense than what we got.

>>48472035
That's actually an interesting point, most of Stormwind's original mages were rather close with their dead boss's (Possessed) son.

And Redridge is just south of one of the only zones in the eastern kingdoms to HAVE large scorpids.

>>48472149
>>48472251
I liked the feeling of being either outright shipwrecked for the Horde, or left there to fight a war with a mere skeleton crew for the alliance.

>>48472251
both of the opening quests are pretty good. Chasing Anduin as the Alliance and trying to dig in and keep him as the Horde are cool too.
>tfw based Nazgrim dies with honor for the Horde
>tfw you bring him back in Legion

>>48472261
>Makes more sense than what we got.

Except that it makes no sense.
If the head of the guards and a whole mess of guardsmen are corrupted then they'd have run of the city.
What we got is disgruntled people being swayed by promises of power, it makes perfect sense.

>>48472333
Working with the very same sort of guards who never aided them?

Not really. There's not ENOUGH corrupt guards/footmen to manage the city in an outright revolt especially after the disguised Demonsworking alongside them get slaughtered at Varian's funeral, send a few out on a "Mercy Mission" and catch a militia by surprise, then BOOM you got your sacrifices.

>>48472380
>Working with the very same sort of guards who never aided them?

Working with fellow agents of the Legion.

>There's not ENOUGH corrupt guards/footmen to manage the city

You don't need to manage a city, as head of the guard you can just use a derelict building to commit your profane rites in. Sending troops to wipe out a small town would raise suspicion than some people going missing in a major city.

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>I want to try WoW
>40 GB

>>48472437
not if the its supposed to be a routine patrol mission. garrisons do that shit all the time.

>>48472463
10 years of trying to bodge an old engine to doing bigger and better things.

Almost the whole world is stored client side other than AI.

>>48472465
>not if the its supposed to be a routine patrol mission.

What?

>>48472333
>What we got is disgruntled people being swayed by promises of power, it makes perfect sense.
The reason this feels like a kick in the teeth is that Darkshire has already been through hell and come out with their humanity more or less intact. Having them then suddenly turn out to be EVIL ALL ALONG LOL really cheapens that.

>>48471853
>>48471531
It's not so much that Duskwood has/had a lot of problems. Its that there was just something fundamentally wrong with the place. Like the whole land was cursed, and everybody born in it fated to suffer.

>>48472525
>legion infiltrated unit is assigned a regular patrol to duskwood
>they sacrifice the people in the town and do their demonic shit
>go back to the city and spring their trap

>>48472532
this. Darkshire was abandoned and left alone by the greater alliance at a time when the entire place was falling apart. They survived living in a creepy forest for years on end, and they suddenly turn to be Evil because the mayor and the captain of the town guard have the name ebonlocke.

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>tfw your SI:7 waifu dies in a lolcorruption dreadlord storyline

I fucking hate Blizzard. It isn't funny anymore.

>>48472570
duskwood was never even cursed until morbent fell arrived. The worgen and morbent fell would have been fucking rekt by the a regular stormwind detachment of troops, and the necromancer is a wc3 green creep camp guy.

The land was fine. Everything you see from the start of wow is a recent phenomenon.

>>48472591
do they kill amber?

>>48472532
>EVIL ALL ALONG LOL

Fucking stop.
Not evil all along.
Turned to evil after years of being worn down

>>48472579
>>legion infiltrated unit is assigned a regular patrol to duskwood
>>they sacrifice the people in the town and do their demonic shit
>>go back to the city and spring their trap

>Send your loyal troops out of the position you need them
>Hope they can kill the village with no word escaping
>Hope they can get back to their position in Stormwind in time
>Do this for no reason

Good plan.

>they suddenly turn to be Evil because the mayor and the captain of the town guard have the name ebonlocke.

Alternatively they turn evil because the Burning Legion is invading en mass and offers them a place of power if only they kill some of the shits that abandoned them for years.

>>48472618
Naturally.

>>48472611
Actually the scythe of elune cursed the place. Morbent Fell only arrived later, since where the fuck else is a necromancer working together with Black riders (aka nazguls) supposed to go?

>>48472570
>>48472611
Eh, there was something wrong with it when people started resettling after WC2, some sort of magic leak from Karazhan that has trashed the weather, plants, and animals, Morbent Fell only made it worse.

>>48472665
I never got the impression that they were outright working together.

The Scythe was one of many curses.

>>48472591
>having characters from Cataclysm survive until Legion
Alliance bias

>>48472649
alright.
fuck blizzard in the ass with a rusty spoon.
>>48472646
If anything, post MOP, they will be on the upswing because the alliance and the horde are not at war anymore, everyone is returning home and soldiers will actually help their kingdom now.

Its just like a story where a guy survives a war, goes back to his wife, and just as he is getting out of the taxi, he slips and falls, and breaks his head on the pavement, and dies. Its a shitty story that adds nothing to the game.

also
>>48472646
>some shady cult offers you a place of power, all you have to do is kill the people who have been sending adventurers your way to help deal with the problem because they had their forces busy elsewhere. Now that you have survived the worst of the war, you can start waging war again, but for green fel magic!

>>48472685
there wasn't anything inherently wrong with duskwood until the scythe or morbent fell arrived.
All we can say is.
Fucking Jitters.

>>48470024
I'll be so pissed if Jaina Goes Crazy and Must Be Killed™ while Sylvanas magically ascends to Warchief despite everyone in the Horde hating her ass.

>>48472721
>>some shady cult offers you a place of power, all you have to do is kill the people who have been sending adventurers your way to help deal with the problem because they had their forces busy elsewhere. Now that you have survived the worst of the war, you can start waging war again, but for green fel magic!
Oh and kill all the people you've been working to protect.

>there wasn't anything inherently wrong with duskwood until the scythe or morbent fell arrived.
>All we can say is.
>Fucking Jitters.
In one of the Warcraft Legends comics it's mentioned that a malignancy was seeping out of deadwind. (And two girls go in and duo that one hidden Satyr boss.)

>>48472685
I think Duskwood was more less a case of everything going wrong at once. First Karazhan started fucking with the place. Then the scyth of elune curse happend. And then a necromancer decided to call the place his new home.

The result is a place that seems to just be fundamentally fucked. And as a result i'm mostly fine with this "twist" even though it is kind of cheap writing.

Really, the bigger problem for me is that its only a rogue quest. Since that just makes the whole thing feel far more throw away that it should be. Which is a shame since despite the fact its not "relevant" anymore (A idea that pisses me off on multiple levels). Duskwood is still a wonderful zone that deserves to be treated with the same level of respect as "relevant" content.

>>48472721
>If anything, post MOP, they will be on the upswing

I doubt it since MoP and WoD represent two costly wars. In addition to the Alliance getting rekt at the Broken shore.

>Its a shitty story that adds nothing to the game.

It's a good story because it apparently has you in tears. The Legion are doing bad things and corrupting people as they should.
Characters sucumbing to their influence builds them as villains which leads to a more satisfying pay off when they are inevitably defeated.

>>some shady cult offers you a place of power

But the Legion isn't some shady cult, it's an impossibly vast army of immortal demons, overflowing with power.

> Now that you have survived the worst of the war

But they've not survived the worst of the war, the point of the expansion is that the worst is coming, the Legion is arriving in all its might.

If Stormwind can't help them through comparatively calm times then there's no way they can help against the Legion.

>>48472891
>In addition to the Alliance getting rekt at the Broken shore.

Not again...

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>>48472891
>doubt it since MoP and WoD represent two costly wars
Honestly even Cataclysm was hard on the Alliance. Several entire fleets were lost with all their crews during that timespan

>>48472905
everyone gets rekt at the Broken Shore, it's the entire point of the expansion

>>48472891
>It's a good story because it apparently has you in tears. The Legion are doing bad things and corrupting people as they should.
it has people in anger because they randomly pop out during one quest chain and suddenly turn a random town evil without any warning or buildup whatsoever. Its like Nazgrim getting an epic sendoff with gamon, while the alliance gets to see Taylor's dead body.

Its like theramore all over again, or fucking nethergarde in WoD

>>48472941
>it has people in anger

*tears

> they randomly pop out during one quest chain and suddenly turn a random town evil

Again, this is an MMO, how much build up do you expect?

>Its like Nazgrim getting an epic sendoff with gamon, while the alliance gets to see Taylor's dead body.

Gamon is a joke character, and Taylor was only ever a pale shadow of Nazgrim anyway.

>>48472941
So the world shouldn't change to reflect the story?

>>48472941
>it's an "Alliance main cries about the Alliance being the boring faction" episode
enjoy EMFH and always being morally right

>>48473027
they are removing emfh, and being retarded is not being right.
>>48473009
the world being changed just messes up the game chronology. Just look at cata.

>>48470735
It's part of an in-game questline involving khadgar after you collect one of the pillars of creation I believe.

It states (through Khadgar) that Elune could've created the first of the Naaru.

>>48473402
I thought it was heavily implied (pretty much all but confirmed) in the Chronicle that Elune is the soul of the unborn Titan that is Azeroth. Well of Eternity beign literally made from blood of said Titan, the troll starting to worship Elune after finding the Well, and believing that she slept there during the day. Legion pre-quest with Magni also established that Azeroth is female. It all points out quite strongly that Elune is Azeroth.

who /justiceofthegrave/ here

>>48473463
You sir or madam are correct and during the questline involving the heart of a Naaru Kahdgar states that he believes Elune created the very first Naaru. Mostly because after you get the Tears of Elune the heart begins to hum and you go around to collect visions of Illidan and "How dare you think he is a bad man and ended up killing him."

>>48473463
>I thought it was heavily implied (pretty much all but confirmed) in the Chronicle that Elune is the soul of the unborn Titan that is Azeroth.

Not even a little.

>>48473492
Oh and we learn (or that it is heavily implied) that Illidan is the "Son of both light and shadow." and he's destined for something great.

>>48473517
.....
Blizzard needs new Story Writer.

I want to incorporate professions in my table, any advice in doing this?

>>48473635
what do you mean?

>>48473310
>the world being changed just messes up the game chronology. Just look at cata.
Yeah, but the things that were listed are reversible, and presumably the changes in Legion are the same, or are only reflected within the class stories. It allows the storyline to progress without altering the leveling experience.

>>48473690
im planning to play wow rpg with some 5e implementation. So far the manual only specifies about gathering professions, each user can spend x amount of time mining/searching for herbs/ skinning, but the manual lacks on information in the use of those materials to create gear.

>>48473740
probably use it for buffs to your weapons and armor, and integrate old profession quests as plot hooks.

>>48473765
do you know if any supplement cover this topic or I just improvise about material requirement?

>>48473635
stat up some profession rewards you like and then abstract material requirments depending on what your players can access?

>>48473793
you can look up the profession quests for the professions you are interested in on wowwiki.

>>48473793
You could use a database for the game to show you the types of stuff you can craft and the mats needed for the items.

>>48473740
Herbalism and enchanting could likely be ported 1:1 from vanilla wow into a tabletop campaign setting.

You could pick iconic armor pieces from tailoring/LW/BS and fluff the required materials and crafting time a bit (crafting time in seconds becomes time in hours/2).

i.e. : Robe of Power (rare soulbound leveling robe for tailors) could be crafted from a whole bunch of enchanted silk, and elemental fragments that you collect either from elementals themselves or reagents used by other casters. Add a magic modifier to the item that you feel is appropriate - disregard crafting and magical crafting traits and instead have an tiered investment into that type of crafting (Tailoring - apprentice - journeyman - expert - master)

>48473854

Ah, I meant alchemy, not herbalism.

And here's a link to said robe - would require Expert Tailoring (T3).

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=7054

>>48473854
great idea, i'm planning to stay in vanilla content for a time, so this will do the trick for some week.

>>48473517
>>48473608
You don't know the half of it. Illidan is literally THE CHOSEN ONE as stated by an elder naaru.

This same elder naaru proceeds to guilt trip your character and tells you you need "redemption" for daring to kill him in Outland when he was being an evil overlord, even though ANOTHER naaru told you to do it.

Oh, and if your character didn't actually lay a hand on poor baby Illidan, the talking windchime still informs you were "complicit" in his death, even if you were a goblin/worgen/panda/death knight who wasn't even playable at the time.

>>48473949
Should I laugh or cry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ8VfPQYVcQ

>>48474015
be ambivalent.

>>48473949
>>48474015
Theoretically a DK could have been active in BC as a warrior or paladin and died when they came back to Azeroth just before Wrath, possibly on their way north to the Sunwell.

And that Naaru may just be playing a long-con.

>>48473949
I like Illidan, which is why it upsets me that they're taking this route with his character. I'm fine with him coming back, but I'd prefer they went with the explanation that during TBC his mental state was unstable due to the Skull of Gul'dan. His death freed him of the skull's corruption, and now he's out to try and redeem his destructive actions in Outland.

That would actually be character growth, instead of just retconning everything into 100% Illidan did nothing wrong.

And, hell, I'm even fine with fate conspiring against Illidan, and him doing his best to fight against it. It's fine if the players fucked up Illidan's mutually-beneficial goals, especially since it was apparently implied that the uncalled-for attack on Shattrath was Kael'thas' order and not his. Just leave the guilt-tripping out of it. Have the Naaru say that they were wrong or whatever, and that's it.

Not really sure why Blizzard is going with this "you should be ashamed!" route when it's not even necessary and, in fact, a bit conflicting, since a Naaru was helping you and Akama take down Illidan in the first place. Unless they're going somewhere with the guilting that hasn't been patched in yet, but who knows?

>>48474044
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ndjcgfUbYg

>>48473949
What about Demonhunters, do they at least get their own dialogue?

>>48474015
We can hope that the elder naaru is actually a spooky evil (void) dude trying to mislead us.

That way the entire scenario is less egregious.

>>48473914
You could basically look through the crafting lists for any green sets or iconic blue/purple individual pieces for crafting ideas.

i.e. : Heavy Mithril set http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=7930

Truesilver Breastplate (fun magic effect that would be easily implemented)
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=7939

Phantom Blade is a cool higher-end crafted weapon with a unique effect that could be put to use in a campaign:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=7961

Blacksmiths could be rewarded with http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=10418 by armorsmith guilds or a master crafter they studied under after showing their worth by finely crafting an impressive item.

Sorry for sperging out, I just love the Vanilla crafting system.

>>48474123
yes.

How strong would be a Vanilla WoW Level 60 character in Warcraft 3?

>>48474087
There's been like three different explanations now, first it was the skull, then it was "being cut by Frostmourne made him crazy", and now they've finally settled on: He was a good guy all along and you were just dumb for not realizing "NOT EVEN ARTHAS COULD DEFEAT ME, COME FACE ME IN MY TEMPLE IF YOU DARE" was code for "We're on the same side guys, please cool it!"

As for Akama, the plot also acts like he's a horrible traitor for turning against his noble overlords. And then Demon Hunters can go rip his soul out again to make him serve them.
>>48474123
Yes, you're praised instead for being a good servant of the chosen one.

>>48474219
Why is Blizzard so retarded?

>>48474191
you and me both.

>>48474210
probably the equivalent of a high level creep like a granite golem.

From best to worst
>MoP
>WotLK
>TBC
>Cata
>WoD

>>48474295
MoP and Wrath are hard to choose between because of my love for shipwreck/stranger in a strange land stories. And BC, WoD, and Cata all got me to quit at least once each.

Ad far as good times to set a PnP adventure that's even harder because you could set it during a bad expansion and make it not-bad.

>>48474295
Pretty much, WoD was the best WoW expansion I've ever played. Even the things I didn't like (hurr durr we're fighting I guess) had positives to them, there isn't one entire chunk of the game that I utterly detested. Except for the legendary quest. Fuck PvP.

>>48474210
If faction leaders are level 10 heroes, probably a level 3-4 hero.

>>48474332
I think classic is the best choice for PnP. Expansive world, cohesive power/gearing curve, each raid tier is a unique threat which opens a bunch of branching paths one could take as an adventurer. Hell, even without endgame content there are a lot of storylines to be told.

Expansions have a unified theme and an ultimate villain, leading to pigeonholing and and overall linear development towards a clearly defined final goal. (thwarting the Illidari/Scourge/Twilight'sHammer/Warlords)

MoP is similar to classic in that it introduces political intrigue and various factions that only tangentially relate to the (dead) big bad Y'shaarj.

>>48474432
fuck ,I mean MoP. I've been typing WoD for far too long. Fuck WoD.

>>48474295
Switch MoP and Wrath.

I liked TBC as a game, but lorewise it was an abortion.

>"Should we bring back some old Warcraft characters?"
>"That'd be great!"
>"Okay, here's Zul'jin."
>"Cool, I can't wait to have more forest trolls official join the Hor-"
>"No, kill him."

>>48474438
>various factions that only tangentially relate to the (dead) big bad Y'shaarj.
the funny thing being that since the Mogu are Titanforged, they're stauncher enemies of the Old Gods than even we are, but we slaughter them by the thousand because they're dicks

>>48474438
I was about to say "Weeeellll MoP didn't really have a single badguy either--" like a know it all and you cut me off perfectly.

My ideal settings are Just before Vanilla, during BC during/before Wrath Just before Cataclysm, or during MoP

>>48474462
Do you really think Blizzard could have managed to depict the diplomatic chaos of Zul'jin joining the Horde? Even if you REPLACE the bloodelves there's still Sylvanus and the forsaken who don't like forest trolls one bit.

>>48474498
I don't know about that, the Mogu WERE fucking with Sha energy in the form of the Divine Bell etc.

Imagine if MoP became Mists of the Mogu, with Mogu as the main race instead of Pandaren.

>>48474542
The starting area could be a Jhym! The first quest:? Collect Protein Powder.

>>48474498
I think the extremity of Mogu pride and imperialism was meant to be the Y'Shaarj curse equivalent of the Yogg'Saron curse of flesh corruption.

Mogu are supposed to be fallen titan-constructs who have forsaken their charge in their quest to attain more power (similar to the black dragonflight and Loken and his lackeys).

>>48474532
I don't think that the Forsaken would have had a huge problem, her aside. The humans warred with them in the past, but with the current state of the Amani, I doubt any undead Lordaeron resident had ever seen a forest troll.

I mean, they're even allied with the orcs who they DID war with in "living" memory.

>>48474588
Better than the first chain of MoP having a panda bounce down and tell you to stop fighting, dummies.

>>48474542
Having Mogu be playable would be cool. What faction would they have fallen under? I could see Alliance because of common titan-forged ancestry with humans, gnomes, and dwarves.

>>48474462
Don't forget the rest of the Horde leaders that were in WC2.

>"Remember all of those cool clan leaders back during the Second War?"
>"Oh, yeah. They were pretty cool maybe we should bring them back to flesh them out one day."
>Meanwhile during a TBC development meeting "Remember all of those cool Horde heroes during WC2?"
>"Of course, we should totally bring them back during this expansion."
>"Yeah! Let's kill them."
>"Uh, okay but what about so and so."
>"Nah, we're gonna kill them all."

Don't even get me started on Kael, Vashj and Illidan.

>>48474542
that's be a cool idea, but they'd have to give them an original skeleton instead of a reskinned draenei one
>the Horde would have a reason to fight Garrosh other than "he's mean to Vol'jin :(" because the Mogu leaders would know the full ramifications of his actions

>>48474616
REEEEEE FILTHY NORMIE OUTSIDERS GET OUT, CAN'T YOU SEE YOU'RE BRINGING CHAOS TO THIS LAND WITH YOUR DISGUSTING SAVAGE IGNORANT HATEFUL WAYS?
*falls to sha*

>>48474542
>>48474588
>>48474616
Have you not seen Kilian's WoW retrospective?

It's amazing Garbage.

>>48474627
Probably both like Pandas.

Wow lore and tes lore has gone down the same path for me because I liked both when they were vague but as soon as kirkbride/metzen/kosak started add on things to make the lore less vague I began to despise the lore

>>48474627
I see the Horde due to their Orc/Forsaken/Elf viewpoint of arrogant supremacy and emphasis on an old, practically immobile hierarchy.

Let's say the Mogu and Pandaren are roughly equal enemies, and Garrosh makes a diplomatic fuckup against them, forcing the Pandaren to pick the side of the Alliance, thus forcing the Horde to favour the Mogu.

I can see it now, massive, grimdark battlefields with holes in the great wall of Pandaria and old hatred re-awoken as the Pandaren are pitted against the Mogu, their former slavemasters.

>>48474725
TES remains vague by design though with it's exotic base.
WoW deals too much in absolutes.

>>48474648
Yes, that was Taran Zhu's character arc, you got it.

No seriously, that's the whole point. Taran had good reasons to be pissed off with RED and BLU, and it ended up driving him over the edge until the players calm him down with their fists. Sure, he retains his Pandaria bias even after that, but can you honestly tell me it would have been better writing if he did a 360 degree character flip and just suddenly started sucking RvB's cocks?

File: alex jones.png (211KB, 307x311px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48474759
>Mogu and Pandaren fighting for control of the Serpent's Spine
>suddenly Garrosh does something fucktarded and destroys a giant swathe of it
>the mantid's face when

>>48474763
TES has fucking kirkbride going "yea that guy in that story is totally a robot" instead of leaving it vague and then he goes on to write shitty lore shit about godhead and pretend that it is the best shit ever written while the autists laud him as the savior.

Wow lore is atleast not pretending that it is the best thing ever

>>48474811
Yeah, I know, I wasn't saying he was a bad character. The only time I actually had an issue with his writing was when he claimed his people had suffered most from Garrosh.

>>48474438
>If faction leaders are level 10 heroes, probably a level 3-4 hero.

Is not that a little low?

>>48474295
It depends, in terms of gameplay:
MoP > WotLK > TBC > WoD > Cata

In terms of flavour/lore/writing

> MoP > TBC = WotLK > Cata > WoD

MoP was excellently executed. Sadly, looking back TBC and WotLK suffer heavily from Blizzard blowing their wad WAY too fast and burning through iconic WC3 characters thoughtlessly with random character changes for Illidan and Kael'thas and Arthas, to an extent. Still, the flavour of those expansions carries them far beyond Deathwing... for the third time! and Ragnaros.. again! and the abortion that WoD has become

File: dogbubble.gif (2MB, 395x313px) Image search: [Google]

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So when will blizzard reset this fucking franchise to pre-reign of chaos?
Do some alternate future shit.
Say Orgrim wins the battle of Blackrock mountain.

>>48474857
as far as AAA fantasyverses go, TES is pretty unique. WoW just seems like a frankensteins monster at this point.

>>48475002
We've already had this conversation. Like, twice at least.

>>48475010
I've seen people say this, but I haven't experienced it myself. I usually see TES as having more width than depth.

Usually whenever I ask, people direct me to Kirkbride's fanfction, which I find shit. Is there depth to the official lore?

>>48475002
Literally stupidest idea ever since that means orcs never break their corruption and never become anything more than rampaging green niggers.

>>48474934
More like too high.

>>48474438
>>48474934
>>48475046
Eh, they seem more like Level 8-10 mercs/creeps.

>>48475019
I had this conversation only once before.

>>48475045
Orgrim wasn't corrupt and shit. He was just a regular honest orc who wanted to take the humans' land through warfare.

>>48475088
>Orgrim wasn't corrupt and shit. He was just a regular honest orc who wanted to take the humans' land through warfare.
All green orcs were corrupt.
Orgrim included.

>>48475145
Orgrim was green by passive exposure, not from drinking demon blood.

His eyes didn't glow constantly for example.


Orgrim was like a man with his entire family stuck on the back of a breakless steamroller running down a road with cliffs on either side and no room to pass.

The various races of azeroth just happened to be on the path in front of him and he didn't want his people to go over the cliff.

>>48475145
>All green orcs were corrupt.
>muh pure brown orcs
I hate this WoW meme, orcs were supposed to have always been green.
Just another shit retcon by BC

>>48475181
brakeless*

>>48475221
Meh, whatever.

>>48475181
>the entire plot of Warcraft 2 is just an extremely advanced trolley dilemma
really makes me think

>>48475181
So your best defense is that he's not a corrupt nigger, just a plain nigger nigger. Orcs still would have stayed the same retarded niggers they always were. It took a green niggers educated by humans to United the broken niggers and raise them up from being nothing but niggers.

>>48475280
Almost yeah, he can either let the horde rampage, try to direct it so it's efficient and not a total slaughter, or try to outright stop the expansion and then get assassinated and have the Orcs turn on each other and then get wiped out by the regrouped survivors.

>>48475339
t. Stromfront

>>48475414
He's right, you know. Orcs had to lose their war so that a Savior could rise and save them from humans and mostly from themselves.

>>48475339

Wow, so cool. So every people that ever conquer anything in the history of the world are niggers, right?

Funny, since ACTUAL niggers (subsaharan Africans) never conquered shit. Germanic tribes, Slavic tribes, Huns, Mongols, etc. all conquered plenty. Are they all niggers, too?

Seriously, kill yourself.

>>48475655
You first nigger lover.

>>48475534

Not really. Orgrim had already purged the Shadow Council from the Horde's ranks by the Second War. A few he kept around (Gul'dan, Cho'gall, the death knights, etc.) because of their usefulness. Once they outlived that usefulness he would've purged them, too.

If Gul'dan and Cho'gall never betrayed Orgrim, taking with him half his army, Orgrim would have probably won the Second War. Orgrim was intelligent enough to solve the issues his people were facing.

Thrall is only necessary because Orgrim was beaten.

>>48475699

You sound really dumb.

>>48475719
You sound like a tumblrina, just let the man say nigger.

>>48475704
Suck his dick harder, faggot.
No, Orgrim was not some genius. Just another bloodthirsty savage who could never have sustained the orcs.

>>48475747

>tumblrina

Rofl, oh boy. I myself said nigger when referring to subsaharan Africans but apparently I'm a nigger lover who doesn't people saying nigger.

Oh, man. This is hilarious.

The funniest part is that my question has still gone unanswered. Are every people to have ever conquered lands in the history of Earth supposed to be niggers? Germanic peoples, Slavic peoples, Greeks, Romans, Huns, Mongols, Americans, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Russians, Japanese, etc? Are they all niggers?

Let me remind you once more that subsaharan Africans never conquered anything.

>>48475775

>orgrim
>bloodthirsty savage

Lore noob confirmed.

>>48473740
Found someone who is trying to do a 5e WoW adaption. Has some rules regarding gathering if you want to take a look.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oaqqtXQG-fT-C5_yajhLbUabdpN5XPn7hmV-MXAGz78/edit#

>>48475843
Stop being pedantic.
Orgrim was never anything more than just another savage.
And stop being a nigger.

>>48475859

I'm providing arguments, explaining myself calmly, asking questions, etc.

You're chimping out and repeating the same thing over and over, refusing to engage me in debate.

You're the nigger. A brain-dead, dumb, lumpy-headed nigger. Please, seriously, consider suicide.

>>48475859
this is why these threads get deleted, fuck off

>>48475897
You're trying to defend some idiot savage by turning him into your own personal mary sue thinking he'd be so cool and badass.
You're not worth debating.
Just making fun of.
That's why people are calling Orgrim a nigger. Because you're stupid enough to take the bait.

>>48475910
These threads don't belong on /tg/. Go back to /v/ with this horseshit.

>>48475916

>some idiot savage

Ah, yes, the idiot savage who kept repeatedly out-maneuvering the Alliance forces. The idiot savage who had Lothar falling for his every trick. The idiot savage who successfully negotiated a non-aggression pact between Alterac and the Horde. Yes, an idiot savage much in the same way Genghis Khan or Julius Caesar was. Indeed.

I'm not turning Orgrim into a personal mary sue. I'm explaining that he's not the "dumb savage" you Garithos-spamming retards think he is. But I realize it's futile trying to argue with you niggers. You're the reasons these threads went to shit originally. But yeah, I did take the bait. Thanks for outing yourselves as trolls who aren't here to discuss or debate but just to circlejerk over Garithos and "those dumb nigger orcs" who managed to conquer human lands which pisses you off so very much.

>>48475972
Oh yes, he totally would have won if he totally didn't lose all his major engagements.
Such tactical genius.

>>48475966
they obviously do because the only time the mods care is when retards like you show up

>>48475984

Go read Tides of Darkness, you dumb, illiterate fuck.

>i read an article on wowpedia, im totally prepared to debate lore

No, you're not. Before you step up thinking you know shit, maybe you should read the source material, faggot.

>>48476010
>i must suck orc dick harder
This is why no one wants to waste time dealing with you.

>>48475984
>the siege of Lordaeron and the battle of Blackrock were the only battles in all of the Second War

>>48476020

>i'm still too afraid to debate
>i'm just going to repeat that nobody wants to waste their time with him
>i'm going to keep repeating this all night, wasting my time with this guy trying to make him believe i'm not interested in wasting my time with him

Scared little pussy baby.

>>48475859
Fucking LOL

"S....stop being pedantic....."

Stop being a shit poster

To interrupt all this shit that's going to get this thread deleted, I'd just like to say that Gul'dan did nothing wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3QJ8Pgjj3c

>>48476106
Why did blizzard feel the need to completely retcon his backstory?

>>48476128
It's an AU Gul'dan.

>>48476147
But why is AU Gul'dan different?

>>48476106
He was an annoying entitled cripple.

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Hay guise! Wats goin on in this thre-
>muh orcs!
>niggers niggers niggers niggers
>orks orks orks orks
>waaaahhj!
>reeeeee!
>hurr
>durr
What a lovely evening we're all having.

>>48476128
because "I was Ner'zhul's apprentice but Ner'zhul is a pussy" doesn't work when Ner'zhul isn't a pussy

>>48476157
He's from a different universe.

>>48476157
Because time travel shit.

GRAINS OF SAND

>>48476214
But why? I get there's an alternate timeline, not alternate universe, created by Garrosh's fuckery, but nothing before that should have been changed.
>>48476203
Also Ner'zhul's wife was still alive for no reason in WoD and he wasn't an old fuck.
And it was Archimonde, not Kil'Jaeden, who contacted the Orcs to use them.
Does Blizzard even give a fuck about its established lore before they shit out new logs?

>>48476251
>nothing before that should have been changed.

You're wrong.
The renegade Bronze Dragon picked that timeline for its differences.
It was different since before Garrosh arrived.

>>48476251
The bronze dragon that took Garrosh there specifically chose a timeline where things were different, such as Garrosh never being born.

>Also Ner'zhul's wife was still alive for no reason in WoD and he wasn't an old fuck.
GRAINS OF SAND
>And it was Archimonde, not Kil'Jaeden, who contacted the Orcs to use them.
He did. He just got pissy after his first try failed and Archimonde got sent to finish the job without fucking up.

>>48476274
So Bronze isn't just time, but now quantum sliders?

>>48476283
Only after the Aspects lost their power and Kairoz invented the Vision of Time after playing around with the magic of the timeless isle.

>>48476251
>And it was Archimonde, not Kil'Jaeden, who contacted the Orcs to use them.
Kil'jaeden was the one who organized it like in the original, but Archimonde took over when Kil'jaeden's sneaky shit stopped working

We will use Shadow of the Demon Lord for a Warcraft campaign. The game has rules for corruption and insanity. Should we leave it out? Do not seem to fit setting.

>>48476391
If you're going to deal with the Legion in any way, you best leave it in.

>>48476391
Between old gods, fel, and the multitude of other means Blizzard uses as an excuse to turn former allies into cackling raid bosses, I'd say it very much does fit the setting.

>>48476391
>The game has rules for corruption and insanity. Should we leave it out?
>Mannoroth, Yogg-Saron et al laughing.jpg

>>48476431
I want murlocs to turn someone into a raid boss

>>48476180

autists can't control themselves and sperg out as soon as something that isnt the equivalent of "garithos did nothing wrong" is posted earnestly

File: Smug'dan.gif (4MB, 294x233px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48476455

>>48476283
It was some newly discovered time-fuckery, as far as we know it's not within the usual powerset of the Bronze flight, and certainly wasn't in their usual post-cata powerset.

If Bronze dragons lost their powers, does that mean the Infinite dragons are gone?

>>48476627
Cata's ending is not worth thinking about,.

>>48476627
Nope.
They're yet to form.
Nozdormu needs to turn evil so he can be killed in the alternate future by our past selves.

Who /sol/ here?

>>48476659
Yay time travel.

>>48476659
Fuck Cata writers so hard for aborting that entire plotline, it could have been its own expansion.

>>48476627
I don't think they lost their powers, just gave up their immortality.

>>48476676
>>48476546
Considering the fuckery we had with past-Draenor, what about past-Azeroth? Where the Horde hasn't invaded yet and Medivh is still possessed by Sargeras?

>>48476698
>Considering the fuckery we had with past-Draenor, what about past-Azeroth? Where the Horde hasn't invaded yet and Medivh is still possessed by Sargeras?

None of that is necessarily true given it's all just the one Legion.

>>48476673
Who /blackharvest/?

>>48476698

I'd like this.

Seven Kingdoms all warring with one another. Dwarves and gnomes dealing weapons to both sides, competing with the goblins for the market. High elves sitting back and laughing as the humans butcher each other.

Cult of the Damned creeping up about 30 years too early because all the peasants are pissed off about the 7-way war. Kel'Thuzad becoming Medivh's apprentice and helping the Legion advance their cause.

Good shit. Would love to fight Thoras Trollbane as a raid boss.

>>48476698
>genn graymane starts a coup and seizes control of the alliance from the inexperienced king anduin
>goes full garrosh
>both sides team up and defeat him in a climatic siege of stormwind raid
>he escapes and with nowhere else to go, leaps into the time altered dark portal
>ends up on au azeroth
>gets all the kings together
>forms the steel alliance
New expansion ready to ship.

But in all seriousness, who fucking knows if AU Medivh is possessed when they casually dropped that ONE BURNING LEGION ACROSS THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE shit.

>>48476755
>>48476727
They ARE still 35 years in the past. It was kinda stupid of them to try to invade their future, when if they invaded their present, i.e., past Azeroth, no one would have been in any shape to stop them.
The Orcs won the First War without any of the mechanization Garrosh and Kaeroz brought back with them.
They'd have been unstoppable.
Hell, same with Gul'dan's mechanized Fel Horde.

>>48476755
>ONE BURNING LEGION ACROSS THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE

Why did they even think this was a good idea?

>>48476743
>Would love to fight Thoras Trollbane as a raid boss.
You'll get your chance when WotLK 2 happens, starring Bolvar "Not corrupted by Ner'zhul" Fordragon and the Ebon Blade.

File: 62_Felorcs.jpg (864KB, 1568x1356px) Image search: [Google]

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Was there ever any reason given for WoD fel Orcs looking so different from previous ones?

>>48476825
Garrosh had too much of a revenge boner for main timeline Azeroth to care about steamrolling alternate Azeroth.

>>48476871
Because if they made them look similar, the forums would have been flooded with autists whining about recycled assets.
Which it already was, even though most of the reused assets were just skeletons that had been reskinned.

>>48476825
on top of that, Garrosh still knows about the Heart of Y'sharrj, so if he could get the mists around Pandaria to lift somehow, he could beeline straight there and wreck everyone without the Mogu or Zandalari in the way

>>48476859
Because it is.
Introducing time travel and alternate dimensions was a mistake, but for your main villain to remain threatening they can't just be lost in the endless parallel universe bullshit.

>>48476859
It never was. How can anyone explain Mannaroth coming back from the future to alternate past to give the same deal to the orcs there?

>>48476871
because pit lord blood doesn't keep for 2 years

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>>48476885
I don't know, I certainly would have preferred an updated look for this guy rather than the weird black rock scab stuff they're pushing on the Legion.

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>>48476871

>when you hit the cup of unity too hard

>>48476958
I wanna say the orcs skipped the green level and evolved straight into black level.

>>48472795
>implying the quest won't be to warn her where she's going by showing her the Lich Queen nightmare again
>or by enchanting a mirror so when she looks into it she sees Garrosh approving her actions

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>>48476958
Really they should have turned green, since that's what the Fel magic did the first time. Red was when they got double Fel'd.
Spiny black orcs was just super Fel.
Even though Gul'dan was still green. And spiny.

>>48477023
Just DEW IT, Hellscream.

>>48476871
No.

Fanon is that they drank Archimonde's blood instead of Mannoroth's, but that's still only fanon.

>>48470024
She's already got a world-shattering artifact in her staff and, by the fluff, could wreck the horde single-handedly already.
>>48470056
She is fucking Malygos' Aspect of Magic successor. So she may well just have access to the inner workings of the Nexus, which, according to Malygos, is enough power to destroy Azeroth ten times over.

>>48477023
because fel magic is chaotic and unpredictable? That's what I was thinking.

>>48477019
but that'll just make her realize Garrosh was right all along

>>48477079
Isn't her staff just charged with Thunder King stuff? Not really that level.

>>48470767
>Exactly, Creepytown is the perfect place for demon cultists to show up.
>I really didn't get the bad reaction.

Because it's yet another Alliance town getting wiped out

>>48477196
all of the Alliance should be wiped out
factions were a mistake

>>48477196
Hey, at least the park is fixed

>>48477095
Anon, Garrosh did everything wrong.

>>48477265
He did some things wrong, but what's important is that he was right.

>>48474295
Story wise, sure.

Gameplay it's a toss up between BC and WotLK for worse. BC for tiers of attunements and still having resist gear, and WoLK for being a joke content-wise.

>>48477219
Not really. They turned it into a graveyard. No one is going to RP in there except the GoT edgelords who can't sit in the one dark chair by the fireplace in the Inn in goldshire.

>>48477924
Does legit RP actually happen in Goldshire on non Meme Guard realms?

>>48474532
Are you somehow implying that the diplomatic minefield would not be an interesting storyline?

It's perfect for Horde/Alliance conflict and internal conflict. Orcs, Forsaken and Tauren are all for the forest trolls joining while the blood elves and jungle trolls detest the idea. Meanwhile the Alliance would be attempting to prevent the forest trolls from joining because that would strengthen the Horde, so they're trying to foster more distrust in order to break the allegiance before it happens.

>>48474627
Definitely Alliance, the Horde, when done right, is the more naturalistic faction, which fits far better with the Pandaren, not to mention their previous relations to the Pandaren via Chen Stormstout.

>>48477924
Won't they probably have a bronze dragon you can talk to phase into the old version like with theramore/blasted lands tbf

>>48478821
Doubt it, not like there's a dragon to see old Orgrimmar.

>>48470841
I'm more upset about Ysera getting the corruption treatment before actually doing much of anything.

She was a palette swap of Alextrasza. She got the one Hyjal quest chain that amounted to her feeding you bread crumb quests. She stood in the background during the Dragon Soul cinematic.

She spent the rest of her time asleep or standing around. That's it.

For an Aspect, she seems pretty underused.

>>48480359
Well her whole dominion is/was out of the reach of everyone but arch druids.

>>48472795
Having played legion beta, with-ought spoiling it, sylvanas is up to something at the end of the stormheim quest chain. As in sorta deal with the devil level of scheming.

>>48480429
So she's gonna end up as a raid boss. Who would have guessed!

>>48480359
What makes it worse is the fact that Ysera, Cenarius, and Malfurion all get similar corruption. We murder the former two but save Malfurion for no real reason other than he's a Metzen insert.

>>48480457
It's funny, people complain about Thrall but it's Malfurion who saved the world in a 1 on 1 battle with Azshara that destroyed half the fucking planet and has a super powerful and hot wife that's completely devoted to him.

>>48480490
It's also funny how the worst of the Malfurion and Thrall shilling came during or after Cataclysm. So, after it could be Metzen's fault

>>48476893
We've been over that in a previous thread: The Cataclysm is what led to the mists around Pandaria clearing. Pre-Cata, no getting to Pandaria.

Unless he knows about the Wandering Isle and hijacks it. It's a slim chance, but it's within the realm of possibility.

>>48480490
Don't forget that he also made fucking Archimonde himself retreat at one point, and how he's such an amazing druid he can actually do things Ysera herself can't.

>>48480457
At least with Cenarius there's the possibility of bringing him back. Again.

I get the feeling Blizz wants to kill off all the original Aspects and replace with them gen 2 knockoffs.

>>48480616
I'm pretty sure Kosak said exactly that directly during Cataclysm

Something about the "age of mortals"


A separate inquiry. Which expansion of WoW would make for the best tabletop campaign setting? Not following the plotline of the expansion directly, just for use as a setting

>>48480616
Only issue with that is that Kalec was set up in advance.

Bronze has... Chromie? Probably Chromie because popularity.
Red HAD Krasus, until Metzen purged all of Knaak's creations like him and Rhonin. Now they have nobody really.
Black has Wrathion.
Green has UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>48480650
All of them in their own way. But Wrath would be pretty rad, because of the scale. You could tuck your own little campaign in against some sort of lich, death knight, whatever, and not have it contradict the lore at all.

>>48480665
Yeah, IS there another named green dragon?

>>48480665
For green, you could probably have Malfurion take up the role of the guardian of the Emerald Dream. Much like how Deathwing's former position as the earth-warden is now held by Thrall.

I get the feeling the end goal would be to replace all the dragons with empowered mortals. They seem to be set on writing out anything Knaak created, including quite big setting details like the dragon aspects. Hence why all the aspects are brought down in power level in the end of Cataclysm, and why the drgaonflights are now apparently doomed to die out.

>>48480727
Well, I was going to say Eranikus from way back in the day, but I checked and they killed him off too. Great.

>>48480727
>>48481024
´There's that on dragon you heal up during the bossfight in Icecrown Citadel. Valithria Dreamwalker, or something.

>>48480745
>and why the drgaonflights are now apparently doomed to die out.

Don't fucking remind me. I'll never understand why Blizzard has such a vendetta against all things dragon.

Gone are the days of the dragon flights and their xenophobic and proud nature. Now they're just infertile lizards near extinction.

>>48480429
Great. That's yet another dead warchief. And the second one we have to kill.

I miss Thrall being the warchief. Why did he leave to go full mary sue?

>>48481172
>That's yet another dead warchief. And the second one we have to kill.

What? Nah. She'll get that long awaited redemption storyline. As it will turn out, everything was our fault all along.

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>>48480650
Dragonlance had an "age of Mortals" too. That got retconned really fast.

>>48480650
Controversial pick, but i think Cata would be the best campaign setting. The whole world has just been wrecked by a giant dragon, and now everybody has to rebuild and recover from that disaster. And to make matters worse resources are dwindling, the horde vs alliance war is intensifying, and there's a doomsday cult working behind the scenes to blow up what's left of the world.

Say what you want about the actual expansion. But as a setting it has a LOT of potential.

>>48477924

Dude, there's people RP'ing there constantly now.

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>>48481172
>I miss Thrall being the warchief. Why did he leave to go full mary sue?

Me fucking too, man.

What I hate the most about Thrall though... is that Blizzard forgot he was a Warrior first. Not just any Warrior, though... he was literally the best. He roughed up Orgrim in a wrestling match, was often said to be one the biggest orcs anyone had ever seen, and was constantly bashing dudes upside the head.

Then suddenly he just became a Shaman who wears plate armor but sucks ass at fighting. Thrall has way more combat experience than Garrosh (people forget Thrall was raised as a gladiator and trained constantly under human direction) but whenever he and Garrosh tango, Thrall just gets whooped until his magic comes into play.

It's just embarrassing. Dude used to be a legit badass. Now he's a middle-aged dad who constantly needs to "find himself." Tired as fuck.

>>48477112
Considering Lei Shen controlled a number of Titan Artifacts, and took one of the original Titan-Born captive, Jaina's staff is absolutely capable of whatever the story says it is.

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>>48475035
I don't read any of that stuff, honestly it's a tiny minority that does I reckon. The big thing that sets TES lore apart for me is that a lot's told through books, and often it's incidental. There's myths, fantastical novels, political screeds, textual forms of "some guy at the pub told me", full of the biases and mistakes of actual historical books.

In other words, there's lots of sources, many of which are purposefully contradictory, especially the myths. It's a lot of fun seeing the differences in how each race thinks the world was created for example.

Not all the information is handed down to you in absolutes from up high (praise Blizzard), but encountered piecemeal and because of the problem of contradictory sources, there's way more room for interpretation. That's why TES has more depth than Warcraft. Warcraft was always a game first, with lore added on later whereas TES was a DnD campaign setting first.

I still enjoy WoW lore mind, but there's just no way it competes with TES. Amazing what a well thought out setting and decent writers makes.

Having missed a fair bit of MoP and WoD, does Greymane ever do something? Is he meant to do something in Legion?

I really like the character, but him and worgen seem to fo fuck all.

>>48468225
Are there any roleplaying streams available?

>>48481616
>Having missed a fair bit of MoP and WoD, does Greymane ever do something?
Not really.
>Is he meant to do something in Legion?
Yes. He was named a major character of the expansion, and is attacking the Forsaken on the broken isles.

I mean, faction bullshit now of all times is stupid, but at least he's doing something.

>>48481213
Clearly they're keeping "Wrathion is up to some shit" in the background, so they can have him work to restore the dragon aspects to full power if they feel like rolling shit back.

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I never played warcraft 1 or 2, was corruption a thing in those games or is that a wc3 retcon? My thinking goes that orc corruption comes first, then they came up with the concept of fel to explain why the corrupted orcs turned green.

I really enjoy the idea of the evil energy being green as opposed to the usual red or sometimes black, it's a really cool look seeing the 'corrupted forests' that are actually bright green, but it works. Funny to think Legion got associated with green because Warhammer made a painting error on their orcs in the 70s.

>>48481701
Yah but they kind of ruined it in W3 too when the extra corrupt orcs turns red so you know it they are extra evil.

>>48481725
Oh right, the chaos orcs in TFT. Totally forgot about them. Actually now I think about it, the ircs who invaded azeroth are about the only legion corrupted thing that's green, even though actual fel magic is green. The actual legion guys are almost always red, but still have plenty of green fel fire associated with them. See >>48468379

>>48481701
WC1 orcs were pretty much directly based on Warhammer ones, and were green because those were green. The demonic corruption thing came in WC3 (or rather between WC2 and 3; there was supposed to be an adventure game that told Thrall's story and gave a lot of the orc background that got squeezed into WC3 and WoW manuals) when they wanted to give the orcs more depth that just have the always chaotic evil. Not entirely sure if it was at that point established that the green colour was also result of the corruption. In any case, they only added the brown orcs in TBC, and it kind of feels to me like it was a retcon (since in previous games even the orcs that hadn't drunk demon blood, and their children, were green, so greenness seemed more like it was natural for orcs).

>>48481835
What I remember from wc3 is that the orcs in the concentration camps were becoming lethargic as a result of the loss of demon influence. I guess they wanted to emphasise the difference corruption made by introducing the 'pure' brown orc in TBC. So - that means fel and orc corruption are unrelated then and it's only green by coincidence?

>>48480457
We stop Malfurion from getting corrupted.
We can't stop the other two.

>>48480665
>and Rhonin.
CITIZENS OF DALARAN

>>48480650
>A separate inquiry. Which expansion of WoW would make for the best tabletop campaign setting? Not following the plotline of the expansion directly, just for use as a setting
the thiong about that question is that, like someone said further up, any of the expansions would make a good setting if you just take out the shit parts. Vanilla's grind, BC's terrible characterization of old characters, Wrath's ending and uncreative raids, Cataclysm's meme quests, MoP's suddenly turning Garrosh into superHitler, WoD's linearity and focus on garrisons. Take out any of those from your or your players' favourite expansion and it's now a pretty good TTRPG

Reminder that Garrosh was not a misstake thematically and Pandaria could have been a much more grimdark place with massive scars in the landscape and ww1 style fighting with the indigenous inhabitants on both sides wondering where it all went wrong.

>The Horde and the Alliance tears the Sha out of the continent by so much hatred
>The Adventurers fuck the Sha up
>The Horde and the Alliance continue tearing eachother apart

>>48482428
>Taran Zhu gets infested with the Sha of Butthurt and tries to lead the Shado-Pan against them to put an end to it
>the massive 3 sided warfare leaves the Serpent's Spine unmanned or damaged in many places
>the mantid swarm over and attack the Vale, killing everything in their path
actual consequences for our negative emotions would have probably taught us a lesson better than spawning easily killed world bosses and annoying a Naruto cosplayer

>>48482522
>The first half of the expansion is warfare and sha killing
>The Latter half of the expansion is killing Mantid

I'm surprisingly okay with this

>>48482538
the mantid deserved better than a first tier raid and one fight in SoO. Why does Blizzard hate bugs so much?

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>>48482683
>Why does Blizzard hate bugs so much?
Because Blizzard games don't have bugs.

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>>48482730

>>48481280
Well, Thrall was raised as a gladiator.

>>48481198
Fuck you and you're waifu, Kosak.

new thread
>>48483186
>>48483186
>>48483186

>>48481701
Corruption in the old lore was not visible.
It was also only mentioned once in case of the Eredar and Nathrezim being so fucked up that Sergaras had a serious san loss upon finding them.

>>48482194
But half of those are game-mechanic related, which in a tabletop campaign doesn't really change anything