So I was reading the Silmarillion and this bit about the Ringwraiths

>>48377883
This is similar to what Gollum has to say about Sam's elven rope

>‘It hurts us, it hurts us,’ hissed Gollum. ‘It freezes, it bites! Elves twisted it, curse them! Nasty cruel hobbits! That’s why we tries to escape, of course it is, precious. We guessed they were cruel hobbits. They visits Elves, fierce Elves with bright eyes. Take it off us! It hurts us.’

The original Elves also were convinced that Orome was an evil spirit and the leader of some sort of Wild Hunt

>Yet many of the Quendi were filled with dread at his coming; and this was the doing of Melkor. For by after-knowledge the wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first aware of the awakening of the Quendi, and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and waylay them. So it came to pass, some years ere the coming of Oromë, that if any of the Elves strayed far abroad, alone or few together, they would often vanish, and never return; and the Quendi said that the Hunter had caught them, and they were afraid. And indeed the most ancient songs of the Elves, of which echoes are remembered still in the West, tell of the shadow-shapes that walked in the hills above Cuiviénen, or would pass suddenly over the stars; and of the dark Rider upon his wild horse that pursued those that wandered to take them and devour them

cont

Sorry, shitty internet and there's a storm going on on top
>>48377998
This caused many of the Elves to remain in the East, and those became the Avari. A good chunk were turned into orcs, but they're still around into the second and presumably third age. They even had some contact with the Edain when they were going westwards, which is one reason why the Elves at Beleriand quickly grasp their language. They NEVER find out what the hell was going on in the West during all those years, and are presumably the least powerful Elves since they never saw even a reflection of the Two Trees nor received any of the knowledge of the Valar. They're essentially a blank slate. One early version of Eol made him the only named Avari elf, though he was later changed to a Sindar. He's notorious for being one of the only evil or at least very morally ambiguous Elves, regardless of Easterling superstitions

We also get this bit from the Rohirrim about Galadriel

>‘Then there is a Lady in the Golden Wood, as old tales tell!’ he said. ‘Few escape her nets, they say. These are strange days! But if you have her favour, then you also are net-weavers and sorcerers, maybe.’ He turned a cold glance suddenly upon Legolas and Gimli

>>48378292
I had more stuff in mind, but to cut to the chase before my connection goes to shit again:

There could be a campaign based off Easterling perceptions about the setting, with the players being some of the nondescript Nazgul before they're completely corrupted. How do you think this would work out?

>>48378375
>How do you think this would work out?
Could be interesting. There was this tumblr post I found a long time ago that cast around for some ideas on what could be going on far to the east of Gondor and so on. We know that the elves first awoke there, that there are some of them who never went west and there's supposed to be some sort of culture of men renown for their wine (mediterranean-inspired) but nothing that goes into much detail.

Give it a bit more working out, and I think we might have a setting.

>>48378432

Four of the seven Dwarven holds are in the East, as are the two blue wizards.

>>48378853
>Four of the seven Dwarven holds are in the East
They are? What are the holds, again?

>>48378913

Ironfists, Stiffbeards, Blacklocks, and Stonefoots are located in the East.

Longbeards (Durin's Folk from the movies), Firebeards, and Broadbeams are from the Blue Mountains in the West.

>>48378989

Sorry, only Firebeams and Broadbeams are from the Blue Mountains, Durin's Folk are from Mount Gundabad.

>>48378432

Well, we know a bit more. We know the men of Rhun had a mighty empire, and there were probably other empires of men. Sauron ruled them from afar, demanding tithes of soldiers and blood-worship of Morgoth. And, depending on which version you prefer, the Blue Wizards either succumbed and became Sauron's new minions in these Eastern empires or alternatively they led a mass uprising that drew off huge numbers of troops from the western front, thus making victory in the War of the Ring even remotely possible. We also know the mighty Kine of Araw were native to the region, and so were the Variags and Wainriders.

>>48379678
It's worth mentioning that Sauron ruled by claiming godhood. He does the same in Numenor. The Easterlings are under the impression they live in some 40k-esque shithole complete with half-dead barely there God-Emperor and only helping their side because they think everyone else is worse.

Sauron's goals and abilities are actually rather clear and simple compared to Morgoth's. Sauron's "things" as a Maia are the binding of spirits, smithing and shapeshifting, and later strength of will and sorcery in general. His motivation is to be in control of everything - going beyond world domination and into rendering free will null. The sheer malice in his presence is enough to shock Luthien immobile, and that's the same person who later looks Morgoth in the eye without a shred of fear and offers to dance for him.

>>48379678
I rather like the idea of playing as a heroic Easterling rising against Sauron, only dimly aware of the existence of the Free Peoples and the war in the West. Fighting against an Undead King and centuries long tradition of blood sacrifice in LOTR Asia/Middle East seems like it'd be a ton of fun.
Could one of the Blue Wizards have fallen while the other rose against Sauron? That could be a fun, gameable option.

>>48379003
>Gundabad
>Taken by Orcs
>Moria
>Taken by Orcs
>Erebor
>Taken by a Dragon

Dwarves really aren't good at defending their holds are they

>>48380882
>Could one of the Blue Wizards have fallen while the other rose against Sauron? That could be a fun, gameable option.

Oh, totally. Play it as if both versions are true. One fell and became the BBEG, Sauron's lieutenant overseeing the Eastern empires, while the other led the revolution against his former brother.

>>48380909
The Balrog probably complicated things on Moria, and Smaug wasn't just any random dragon, he was the last of the great dragons. He'd been alive since the First Age. It didn't help that he was clever enough to cover his belly, which is usually a dragon's weak spot with everything else about them being practically impenetrable

There's an essay by Tolkien which among other things addresses the motives of Sauron and Morgoth. The first few paragraphs are enough for that

http://fair-use.org/j-r-r-tolkien/notes-on-motives-in-the-silmarillion/

>>48381373
Some interesting parts around the same topic
>Melkor "incarnated himself" (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hroa, the "flesh" or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operation of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all "matter" was likely to have a "Melkor ingredient", and those who had bodies, nourished by the hora of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.

>For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise. This is the chief explanation of the constant reluctance of the Valar to come into open battle against Morgoth. Manwë's task and problem was much more difficult than Gandalf's. Sauron's, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth's vast power was disseminated

>Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such "magic" and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)

>>48381505

That essay finally explains something I alwaus found somewhat puzzling: why Sauron, whose goals and desires are so different from Morgoth's and who clearly abandoned Morgoth even before the War of Wrath, would later encourage Morgoth worship.

>Sauron was not a "sincere" atheist, but he preached atheism, because it weakened resistance to himself (and he had ceased to fear God's action in Arda). As was seen in the case of Ar-Pharazôn. But there was seen the effect of Melkor upon Sauron: he spoke of Melkor in Melkor's own terms, as a god, or even as God. This may have been the residue of a state which was in a sense a shadow of good: the ability once in Sauron at least to admire or admit the superiority of a being other than himself. Melkor, and still more Sauron himself afterwards, both profited by this darkened shadow of good and the services of "worshippers". But it may be doubted whether even such a shadow of good was still sincerely operative in Sauron by that time. His cunning motive is probably best expressed thus. To wean one of the God-fearing from their allegiance it is best to propound another unseen object of allegiance and another hope of benefits; propound to him a Lord who will sanction what he desires and not forbid it. Sauron, apparently a defeated rival for world-power, now a mere hostage, can hardly propound himself; but as the former servant and disciple of Melkor, the worship of Melkor will raise him from hostage to high priest. But though Sauron's whole true motive was the destruction of the Númenóreans, this was a particular matter of revenge upon Ar-Pharazôn, for humiliation. Sauron (unlike Morgoth) would have been content for the Númenóreans to exist, as his own subjects, and indeed he used a great many of them that he corrupted to his allegiance.

It was a combination of humiliating his enemies by turning them into blood-sacrificing monsters and manipulating people into viewing him as the spokesman for a higher power.

>>48381505
This is almost sounding kind of Manichean, what with all matter in Arda having a "Melkor ingredient."