Shan'do Illidan edition Discuss the lore of the Warcraft

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Of all the playable races, which has done the least in the lore?

Which one would you play in a crossover campaign, where each party member is from a different setting?

>>48361647
the Darkspear trolls are literally irrelevant until MoP

>>48361694
At least they get their island homes back. Gnomes still irrelevant.

>>48361647
>Of all the playable races
They're all playable.

On the matter of Jaina going through with the Culling of Stratholme, weknow what would've happened.

Lich Queen.

>>48361918
Yes, but some have done more than others.

Like how Orcs have done a lot more than Goblins.

https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/content_entry_media/dw/DWKY1JKOS8T81467245399497.pdf

So, Azeroth is confirmed Female, and Magni's proud of his daughter.

>>48361926

>they go through with the purge and finish much sooner because Jaina's magic
>Mal'ganis cant taunt and goad Arthas alone into going north
>maybe they dont even go to Northrend but keep purging scourge
>or they go to northrend
>Mal'ganis cant taunt Arthas again
>they easily manage to fight off the scourge and never burn their ships, knowing Jaina can always just mass teleport them home
>Arthas considers picking up Frostmourne but eventually decides aganist it, trusting his old armsmaster and ex-lover who never abandoned him more
>Uther calls them back instead of the emissary
>they accept, realizing the fight there is hopeless... for now
>Arthas never becomes LK but some of his more hardline stuff rubs off to Jaina who acts more like her cataclysm counterpart
>they rekindle their relationship and return home, Arthas forces Terenas to abdicate learning about the orcish breakout and escape
>it breaks his heart but he does it willingly
>meanwhile, Calia Menethil does what MU Jaina did and takes some forces to Kalimdor and eventually founds Theramore
>Lordaeron lives on fighting a desperate fight aganist the undead as a fanatical human supremacist nation
>Garithos gets namedropped somewhere as King Arthas' trusted advisor
>maybe namedrop some scarlet crusaders and forsaken as trusted lordaeronian soldiers
>Kelly stays dead
>someone eventually summons the burning legion anyway
>the fuck knows who
>the plot thickens

>>48362066
Awwww.

>>48362066

>muh equal representation
>Ironforge belongs to everyone, not just who the ones who built it

I'm triggered. I get the gist what are they trying to convey but wow writers are so comically incept when they try to write political stuff. Every single time its just "muh peace, muh people, why hate" and kindergartner level platitudes. It has the subtlety of a badly written pamphlet.

>>48361647
Race with fewest achievements?
Tauren. At least gnomes create something useful from time to time, tauren are content to live their traditional life and ignore the rest of the world.

What would I play in a crossover campaign?
Draenei. They are not my favorite race, but almost every setting have humans, elves, dwarves and orcs. Draenei are pretty unique (or at least were until 4e D&D turned tieflings into red draenei) and I kinda liked what I saw of their culture in WoD

And they make the best waifus

>>48362110
>knowing Jaina can always just mass teleport them home
can't mass tele to other maps

>>48362206
>>Ironforge belongs to everyone, not just who the ones who built it
>I'm triggered. I get the gist what are they trying to convey but wow writers are so comically incept when they try to write political stuff. Every single time its just "muh peace, muh people, why hate" and kindergartner level platitudes. It has the subtlety of a badly written pamphlet.
Do you not know the actual history of Ironforge?

It was built by all three clans.

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>>48361926
>Lich Queen.
That's what Sylvanas is trying to become. Now that Bolvar and the Scourge are being buddy buddy with the living factions, she's going to make a play for his crown.

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>>48361926
The One True Lich Queen.

Why are the old gods so into bug armies?

>>48362482
They're all subterranean, and thus easier to get to.

>>48362482
Not to mention they lend themselves to the whole hive mind concept rather well..

>>48362482
because bugs are cool and so are the Old Gods
t. definitely not N'zoth

>>48362482
I think at first it was literally a case of they were already there and C'thunn thought "I can work with these things."

The Mantid ect are off shoots of the original race that the Trolls wrecked from what I know, so initally I don't think there was too much variation between them all.

>>48362482
what this guy said.
>>48362811
The bugs were there, old gods used em. After the continents shattered they grew in different directions. mantid frozen in amber thing means theyre the original strand/species/ w/e.

>>48362811
>>48362853
>The bugs were there, old gods used em. After the continents shattered they grew in different directions. mantid frozen in amber thing means theyre the original strand/species/ w/e.
Even the mantid didn't start freezing right away.

Also according to the Chronicles they actually emerged from the bodies of the Old Gods when they landed, most serving as physical labor or cannonfodder for the faceless ones.

>>48362888
Havn't read chronicle yet, just remember the C'Thunn thing from when I was looking up the Nerubians for a fanfiction attempt .

Does that mean the Faceless one's also grew out of the Old God's flesh?

Hope you nerds are ready for a preorder so "pre" that it's 8 months in advance:

https://www.amazon.com/World-Warcraft-Chronicle-BLIZZARD-ENTERTAINMENT/dp/1616558466

>>48362206
If you want to get technical, the other two clans used to live there until the war.

Then they just fucked off to Grim Batol and...Shadowforge? I can't remember the name of Dark Iron Town.

>>48362482
unflinching loyalty to an easily corrupted leader.

>>48362309
Bolvar is in the process of losing his mind, I don't expect the LK's new found benevolence to last.

The Ebon Blade fucked themselves in my opinion, they threw away their freedom at the first opportunity just because "Hey, he's not Arthas, amirite?" .

>>48362962
Faceless ones are unique to Yogg, he created them because the A'qir were terrible at fighting the titan legions.

I don't know how he made them though.

>>48363629
Also I think Yogg might have abandoned his A'qir brood (Nerubians) altogether after making his master race.

This might be why they were no longer worshiping him and even forgot about the existence of the Old Gods in time. Meanwhile the slithid and mantid were still slaves.

>>48363629
No, they all had Faceless ones, Yogg created the Faceless one GENERALS with the crab claws and he had a monopoly on THOSE.

>>48363752
No... Faceless ones are exclusively Yogg's shit.

>>48363678
The Nerubian's talk about their Unseen Emperor though and still had a priest caste which would indicate that they still prayed to the Old Gods.

The thing is though, were the Nerubians even aware that Yogg was even close to them? They arrived there after fleeing the Trolls and killed off the Titan creations living in the tunnels before creating the empire, so I wonder if they even knew about Yogg in the first place.

Still Anub'Arak knew about the Faceless, but that might have been because they had records left over from the Black Empire.

As much as I dislike most of the lore that came out of chronicles, the picture of the Black Empire is super good.

>>48363960
>Still Anub'Arak knew about the Faceless, but that might have been because they had records left over from the Black Empire.

He only knew about them beacuse of the war of the spider where the Nerubians dug too deep to escape the invading scourge from the surface and got pressed.

> Nerubian's talk about their Unseen Emperor though and still had a priest caste which would indicate that they still prayed to the Old Gods.

No they had their own faith which involved the great tapestry and their preist caste largely tended the brood. It my have originally been about worshipping the old gods but the original meaning was lost long ago and they were ignorant of Yogg and actually fought against the Faceless.

>>48364063
Ahh right. I didn't realise that the Facless had started turning up in the War of the Spider I thought that was later, when the living ones were trying to fight back once Ner'Zul had taken over the majority of the place.

Where abouts is the stuff about the Nerubian faith? is that more chronicle stuff?

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>>48363992
It has some pretty awesome art in general.

>>48363933
http://wow.gamepedia.com/N'raqi Base Game.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/C%27Thrax Yoggstop Exclusive special offer.

>>48364109
Actually no, books in Northrend talked about the castes.

Preists were largely just mystics (usually diviners who watched the weave of fate) and brood keepers.

I don't think that was their original purpose but I can guess that their purpose changed in time (after they broke from the OG).

Also High Kings were established to make sure the queens would stop infighting over control. So the kings have all the political authority but still need queens to sire a brood making a unique balance of power.

Nerubians are fucking cool.

>>48364216
I'm a poncy blood elf faggot, but I would sacrifice all of them for a chance to be a nerubian.

>>48363441
Yeah it's shadowforge, and I want to be able to walk around there not as BRD so badly

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>>48355237
>>48355248

Any thoughts on this theory. I would like more discussion on it please.

>>48365281
Personally I'd drop Jaina from it. I feel that it would work better if you ran it as S and A struggling to free themselves and what they can of the Scourge and at the same time playing with the fact that they increasingly hate the living.

Plus there's the living Jaina as Arthas' past and undead Slyvanas as his future. and Living prince to undead king too.

Also not enough KT, but that's not really the story you're going for.

>>48365439
hmm... interesting thought. I guess that could work, but there are so many three partner romances in fiction these days where the guy is the center.

>>48365647
And they're almost all universally shit.

You'd be better served by building a relationship between Arthas and Sylvanas (because there is plenty to work with once you get past the hate) and developing their characters than trying to work Jaina into something that is at its core going to be about two corpses going full REEEE!

>>48361694
I'd like to have seen something like an annexation of Zul"Aman by the Horde.

Say the Revantusk trolls in the Hinterlands convince some one is a position of power to sue for peace with the Horde and in turn Silvermoon.

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>>48360551
>Shan'do Illidan

I want a High Priestess Miaev.

>>48361706
they clean the door and put a new doormat

>>48365281
I liked it.

>>48364179
didn't most of the C'thraxxi serve N'zoth though? IIRC you see more in Cata than you do in Wrath

>>48366645
>I want a High Priestess Miaev.
High Templar Zeratul has been in the game for ages

>>48367519
well memed

>>48365937
Zul'Aman deserved better than what happened to it in Cata. When the inevitable Zandalari expansion finally hits, Zul'jin better be in it

What were the worst retcons by blizzard?

>>48369205
wotlk arthas and illidan in terms of character.

>>48369205
Making Eredar and Drenai connected.

>>48369212
not kael'thas?

>>48369362
>implying that wasn't neat

>>48369205
The Draenei Eredar disaster for tbc.

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Did Blackmoore ever have any kids? Feel like he would have at least sired a bastard at some point

>>48369605
he was sterile

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>>48369638
Damn, there goes my hopes of someone going full princess bride on Thrall

Then again I guess Blackmoore wouldn't be the kind of guy you'd avenge

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>>48363508
No, we realized SUPREME LEADER>no leaders.

The azeroth will be saved.

Light's hope chapel was merely a setback it doesn't count. We'll take care of sylvy after legion.

>>48368414
We are not getting a zandalari expansion cuz trolls are only for buffer patches

>Say, did you guys want illidan back after we completely butchered the storyline?
>Yes please!
>okey, i'm turning him into an angel
Seriously, what the fuck is wron with Metzen, has he no understanding of what people want to see? They wanted a plotline fixed, and instead they are just turning him into another generic mary sue

Okey, rant aside, what's your current level of interaction with the warcraft setting? Still play the mmo? Replay the old games on occasion? Or do you just read the wikipedia articles as stories unfold and tear your hair out?

>>48369908
metzen doesn't even work on the story any more now. He wanted jim raynor to be a drunken mess in WoL, his underlings wanted the prophecy bullshit.

the time when he makes an ass of himself in front of horner is one of the few things proposed by metzen that got accepted.

>>48369961
What prophecy bullshit?

>>48370069
the entire main story of starcraft 2 was decided by committee, and metzen was the seniormost guy there. The new blood in blizzard is what made the entire story what it was.

>>48369908
>Still play the mmo?
Haven't since tbc.
Vanilla was disappointing, tbc was offensive.

I played through wc1(orc)-wc2(human) campaigns fairly recently, started on tft campaign, other stuff got in the way, but will go through it soon.
Wc3 is a game that I go back to every now and then beyond the campaigns.

>>48369908
I'm currently slowly replaying warcraft 2, mostly because i just felt like it. I'm planning on playing warcraft 1 in hte near future, might even replay warcraft 3.

I'm also considering coming back to wow for legion. I originally wasn't planning on doing so. But hanging out on this thread has made me kind of curious.

>>48369212
I know everybody hated Illidan's sudden face heel turn in wow. But this is the first time I've heard somebody complain about Arthas.

>>48370445
it has largely to do with golden's book.

>>48370445
>But this is the first time I've heard somebody complain about Arthas.
ICC turned him into a fucking retard
>hehe, I was just pretending to lose, now witness my ULTIMATE ATTACK
>charges for 10 minutes while Tirion sneaks up behind him and breaks Frostmourne

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> tfw working on wowpedia
fuck it's so addicting

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How does /tg/ feel about Wranduin?

>>48370483
The thing I hated about Arthas in Golden's book is that he felt too introspective and broody. As a paladin in WC3, he was brash and impulsive, and a DK he was this sarcastic douchebag with GoAT-tier bantz.

In Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, he feels like a poor-mans Elric. I mean he had the trappings already (white-haired pretty boy who takes up a cursed soul-stealing sword and betrays his kingdom), but he was different personality wise from Elric of Melnibone.

>>48370983

>Wanting to discuss Warcraft ships.
Get out.

>>48370983
>B-b-blizzard homogay w-when?
>Never
get meme'd on

>>48370983
not gonna happen.

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>>48371562
There's been a few implied couples, like Quae and Kinelory in Arathi Highlands.

Not to mention all the angry gay sex Asric and Jadaar undoubtedly got up to.

>>48361926
I want this to happen in legion. I think she would be an awsome LQ. She would be proactive, I beat she would have helped fight Deathwing in Cata

>>48372104
why?
hasn't she suffered enough?

>>48372379
She could still grow as a character, shes not dead

Imagine being tutored by kt, the witty banter, the debate ect.

>>48372745
nah, she should take up horticulture

>>48369362
>>48369542
What does this entail precisely? I know that when TFT introduced the Draenei they were what we now know as "The Broken", are the Draenei we have now not meant to exist? And the Eredar are just something else entirely?

>>48373177
the eredar were the evil demons that corrupted sargeras.

>>48373197
Pre-TBC right? I've only ever really paid attention to lore when WC3/WoW came out so the established setting in WC1/2 is largely lost on me sadly.

>>48373197
even that is a retcon in itself. Before WC3, Sargeras was the daemonlord who taught Kil'jaeden magic and the eredar didn't exist

>>48373222
>>48373237
yes

>>48373222
>>48373237
>>48373253
Then what is the great hubub about making Draenei former Eredar (just a name change and not being a slut for fel magic basically). Since players in Warcraft never interact with any Demon that isn't a Mannaroth or a Doomlord, surely the machinations and intricacies of other Demons doesn't really matter?

>>48373294
I think originally, the people who got mad were the ones who really liked the draenei in TFT and didn't like them being associated with the bad guys

>>48369742
Damn, half the fun of a heavy armored female is to remove it to see the juicy delicate goods, dont spoil it!

Was the Horde vs Alliance in WoW really necessary?

>>48373480
Yes

>>48373480
No

>>48373480
yes

>>48373480
Maybe

>>48373480
Define necessary?

I think getting retarded PvP addict money may have helped Blizzard financially, but it was definitely a sacrifice in the story department that only got worse when they started HIRING those very same retarded gank-addicts like Kossak to write for them.

In short: Maybe.

>>48373480
Border skirmishes have their place, but Warcraft III made it feel pretty firm that open war between the Alliance and Horde was settled at Hyjal.

I don't mind them being at open war typically, but I do mind that Blizzard keeps flip-flopping it so much.

>>48373480
I don't think so.

>>48373522
kosak wrote the webcomic.

>>48373480
I'd say not. Border skirmishes and stuff with the players as mercenaries is fine, the game has a thriving PvP community (somehow). But the Alliance and the Horde should never be in a military conflict. I can understand the tensions that occur in say, Pandaria. There's a new land and both factions want allies, but the fact that it became full-scale war was dumb.

>>48373753
Yes, and it was a mildly funny webcomic, but he's awful as an actual writer for WoW's real story.

>>48373770
what webcomic?

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Footmen or grunts?

>>48373795
footies are fun

>>48373795
Ogre

>>48373795
I'm an orc fanboy but footmen have serious balls to deal with all the shit that goes down in the humans kingdoms.

>>48373776
Flintlocke's Guide to Azeroth.

>>48373860
what was it about?

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>>48373795
MYEH!

>>48373865
A somewhat Lolsorandom dwarf, hippie bimbo nightelf (That I at first assumed to be his take on Bad RPers who don't actually know WoW lore but given his depiction of all Nightelves as dumber than Dryads it seems to be his legit view of Nightelves) and a chinese gold farmer gnome having some sort of adventure against the vastly more competent and organized Horde.

>>48373892
that sounds pretty good for a memestory.

>>48373892
Don't forget the priest who only ever cast one spell ever.

>>48373867
>Wrath Ghoul
>Not Superior Vanilla Ghoul or even WC3 Ghoul
Pleb tier anon, Pleb.Tier. (Seriously Wrath ghouls look awful. their faces are all fucked up with no nostrils and their upper teeth replacing the row of gravestone looking teeth of the Vanilla ghoul pisses me off to this day.

If there was a Glyph for Vanilla ghouls I'd take it in a second.

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>>48373904
It'd decently funny if you're into the humor.

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>>48373856
True heroes they are

What do you think would've happened had the Horde won in the Second war?

>>48373955
ok, that was funny.

>>48373480
I think so yeah. Frankly, it was probally one of the big things that made Wow so popular in the first place.

Story wise its fine as long as they keep it to minor skirmishes. Anything more than that, especially when there's a huge world destroying threat about to happen (which there always is), is a rather poor idea. Especially after Mop.

>>48373971
>lordaeron, dalaran alterac and stromgarde are pretty much dead.

>>48367496
I only remember a couple in Cata, and weren't many in the "Deathwing succeeds and is disposed of" future where the Old Gods in general are resurgent?

>>48374072
Fuckin Kossak.

>>48371721
>not mentioning anren and tholo

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>>48374119
>Fuckin Kossak.
Anon, all three of those kingdoms were dead and gone by the time Vanilla hit. Kossak didn't have anything to do with it.

The remnants of Stromgarde have been around as a very small NPC faction, but they barely do anything.

>>48374175
Stromgarde's final death was because of the forsaken whose unstoppable rampage was Kosak.

>>48374119
Making Galen canonically die, but also make him undedible was such a huge fuck you to the Alliance. Made me mad as hell, and I'm a faggot blood elf.

>>48374188
And they only existed in Vanilla as quest mobs for the Horde anyway. There was one location in the Arathi Highlands where a few of them handed out quests but they've always just been quest mobs.

Chronicle scan where

>>48374119
I don't remember any in End Times, but there's one in Dragon Soul and another in Grim Batol who bot serve N'zoth, while the only one in Wrath is the boss standing directly in front of Yogg-Saron

it's a bad sampling desu, I thought there were more than 3 across both xpacs

>>48373971
Which is the orange one?

>>48374272
True, but they may just be defaulting to N'Zoth since he's the one that's the "Least Dead" at the moment even though Yogg made them.

>>48369908
Angel? He's got some generic Mary-Sue shit going on, but angelic he is not. Keep in mind that the idea of angelic redemption doesn't work if they continue to a self - serving narcissist

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>>48374332
From left to right:
Alterac
Kul Tiras
Stormwind
Lordaeron
Stromgarde
Gilneas
Dalaran

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>>48374332
Kingdom of Alterac

>>48373177
In warcraft 2 the Draenei were known as weak farmers that the orcs fought.
In warcraft3:tft the Draenei appeared in the broken remains of Draenor still fighting orcs.
They were rough looking, seemingly simple and tribal, unnaturally stealthy and shamanistic.
In wc3 we got to know that the Eredar were one of the two demonic races that Sargeras initially imprisoned and were corrupted by.
The two big bad under Sargeras were both Eredar. The eredar were powerful magic users.

The Draenei reappear in some areas in WoW Vanilla.

Then in TBC the Draenei join the alliance, but not the Draenei that we've known.
Instead Draenei and Eredar have the same origin, and instead of a stealthy sand people they are archimonde paladin space sluts who crashed their space ship.

>>48374332
Stormreaver Clan.

>>48373993
Orgrim stops gul dan and cho'gall, then he goes and sacks Lordaeron.

Gilneas, Quel'Thalas, Kul'Tiras, Northeron, Gnomeregan and Khaz Modan are still standing.
Even if the wc2 orc campaign was the canon one I'm not sure how much further Orgrim could really go.
I guess he'd be able to get more clans from Draenor and keep pushing, but it wouldn't completely over.

>>48374903
I like my idea of a mass retreat to relatively secret outposts in Southern Northrend by the people of Lordaeron and all of Dalaran (Going by the book canon rather than the Orc Campaign where they sacked Dalaran BEFORE moving on to the Capital) and the Highelves reaching out to warn the Nightelves "You, a bunch of fel-corrupted assholes are going nuts over here, I know we don't get along but holy fuck this could be some bad news."

(I have a bunch of even more drastic departures from the canon but I've gone over them before

>>48374976
>Highelves reaching out to warn the Nightelves "You, a bunch of fel-corrupted assholes are going nuts over here, I know we don't get along but holy fuck this could be some bad news."
Yeah I imagine that would happen pretty soon after Lordaeron is sacked.

>>48374845
So it seems that the bulk of the issue isn't with the story really, but the aesthetic? While I agree that Draenei are fap-bait I don't think their current lore is that jarring?

>>48375100
Hell, they probably tried to do it at the first opportunity to sneak a message either physically or magically past the siege that encircled the shielded portion of Quel'Thalas.

>>48375145
>So it seems that the bulk of the issue isn't with the story really, but the aesthetic?

Large part of it is the aesthetic yes, I don't quite frankly see the point of the distinction.
They could make Orcs look like anthropomorphic bunnies for the next expansion and I think a lot of people would have problems with it.

As for story.
Sargeras was known as the biggest bad in the universe and the reason for him being evil was the Eredar.
Then they said Sargeras made the noble paladin Eredar evil.

They flipped the result of an encounter of the argueably the most important character in the universe.
They changed the way they looked to pander to waifu fags.
They changed them from primitive shamans who lived in huts to Protoss Paladins with space ship.

>I don't think their current lore is that jarring?
I don't care how fancy the ceiling looks if the pillars that hold it up is made of excrement.

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>>48375145
Personally, I liked the Draenei lore introduced in Burning Crusade, and even moreso with Warlords of Draenor (even if most of the expansion was meh, the greater view of both Draenei and Arakkoa society was neat, in my opinion).

>>48375323
I'm so annoyed by the whole
>uhh, they learned shamanism because they heard the call of the elements on draenor!

does it just so happen that draenor and azeroth have elements but argus didn't?

>>48375431
Argus might have, but the Eredar only cared about the Light at the time.

Contact with fel energies caused some of the draenei to no longer be able to feel the light, so they turned to the elements to fill a spiritual void they now felt. Most of them became broken.

Then there were some draenei that listened to the broken and started to embrace the elements as well. Which isn't mutually exclusive with the Light, either.

>>48375388
>the greater view of both Draenei and Arakkoa society was neat, in my opinion).
I also liked some of the Orc stuff but not much.

Mostly the idea that the Thunderlords used to live in some sort of MMO version of Shadow of the Colossus, grappling their way up colossal monsters the size of cities and gouging out their monocular eyes.

>>48375431
On Argus they focused on the Arcane, in their Exile they focused on the Light and the Arcane after a big chunk of their population lost contact with the light thanks to the Red Mist they got in contact with the spirits and eventually passed those teachings on to the standard Draenei.

>>48375474

IIRC it goes like this: Draenei will degenerate into a broken and eventually a lost one if cut off from the Light. They can learn shamanism without being cut off though.

Makes one think if Eredar will start to degenerate if they're cut off from Fel too...

>>48375510
And then turning the skull into a house.

>>48375631
Because of the way WoW scales down population centers I wonder if the Colossals are supposed to be even BIGGER in lore or if they are just supposed to be surrounded by larger camps.

>>48370983
Anduin the Manduin has no time for blackdragon manchildren. He's to busy figuering a way to save the world

>>48375510
I liked the concept of the laughing skull but the execution wasn't that great

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>>48376165
Weren't the Laughing Skull supposed to be based around Fahralon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X9cOZnoTa0

>>48376250
Holy Fuck, the guy from Hayvengames has cancer. I didn't know that...

Fuck this. First Eddsworld, now him? Why do all my favourite youtubers die of cancer?

>>48376165
>>48376250
the Laughing Skull suck because most of Gorgrond and all of Faraholn were cut in development to avoid "orc fatigue". Which is also why you barely touch the Blackrocks outside of Talador despite all their dungeons being in Gorgrond

>>48376294
Yeah but I thought he's been doing really well lately.

>>48374845
It was fun when this was the only thing broken on WOW lore...

>>48376304
That's one of the reasons. The other is that they wanted to pop out legion as fast as possible.

A shame though, there was so much potential:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLvBkBc6jUo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYLJmR76jtc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtQ7U2qPZvo

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>>48370483
>>48370445
I liked the lich king being a new entity forged from the fusion of both arthas and ner'zhul is stead of just boring old Arthas.

Then again, I didn't play a paladin or DK in wrath, so I really didn't have an investment in that part of the expansion story. Explains why I think wrath circle jerk that happens in online communities is cringe worthy as fuck.

>>48377475
>fusion of both arthas and ner'zhul

Yeah, I liked the idea of the Lich King basically being Helios: Maoh Edition. It made him this somewhat alien being that was beyond Nerzhul's craftiness, and Arthas' dickery, and was just pure evil.

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you're at the Broken Shore when this guy walks up to you, slaps the corpse of your fallen heroes on the ass, and tells you that Light's Hope was merely a set back. What do?

>>48375554
Didn't they degenerate because of space radiation?

>>48378860
No, Gul'dan's Red Mist stuff.

Let's talk alternate timeline racial faction splits, folks.

There's an obvious three-way split:

>Titan-Forged: Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, Mogu
vs
>Outcasts: Forsaken, Worgen, Orcs, Draenei
vs
>Azeroth Natives: Trolls, Elves, Goblins, Pandaren

But how much needs to change to make this happen?

>>48375323
>>48375388
I don't really mind the Eredar/Sargeras retcon, since the original version was mentioned in like one sentence in the WC3 manual, so changing it didn't really affect things on a large scale (hell, the whole reason the retcon happened was because even Blizz forgot about that part of the lore). They've made far bigger retcons from WC1 onwards.

But even if I like the Draenei, I wish they weren't, well, Draenei. The pre-TBC Draenei were their own thing, and the attempt to tie them to the new Draenei just comes across as handwaving to explain why the "true" Draenei are now blue space-waifus. They should've either kept the old Draenei as Draenei, and made the new Draenei into something else, or if they wanted to go with the idea that the old Draenei were degenerate remains of a more advanced people, actually have the new Draenei share visual similarities with the old (like, make the new Draenei have essentially the same overall appearance than the old one, except less hunched over and deformed looking, and not dressed in rags).

>>48382865
Elf/Human relations go worse during the war of the undead (Kael Thas butthurt intensified)?

Titan Forged: Vykrul
Outcast: Naga
Natives: Tauren
This shit might work.

>>48374175
there was no proof that stromgarde was dead, lorewise they were actively trying to take the city back from mug'thol and were contesting the arathi basin with the horde.
Lordaeron is understandable.
Dalaran becoming a neutral city gets my ass spanked, and alterac becoming a punching bag is just sad.

>>48383787
I thought Alterac was destroyed in Warcraft 2. It's remnant hanged around a while in the form of the syndicate. But those where mostly destroyed in vanilia wow.

What's the size of the Eastern Kingdoms Lorewise? I need to know for a campaign as a hawaii sized chunk may be taken out of it.

>>48384169
it hasn't been mentioned that much. A good rule of thumb would be game distance x 10

>>48384169
I remember one of the book mentioning that it takes about a day to get from Karazahn to Black Morass (Blasted Lands before fel energy from the dark portal irradiated the place).

>>48382865
>Forsaken
>Worgen
>working together
You'd have to completely start from fucking scratch on their lore.

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>>48384169
Pretty big.

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>>48385723
And since I'm here, a few more maps, incidentally of the Eastern Kingdoms by the same guy

>>48385738
>>48385723
I hate WoW geography. Decent work though.

those are some pretty good maps

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>>48375554
Wrong way around, the Broken and Lost Ones were cut off from the Light because they were mutating.

>>48375431
Honestly, Unbroken is one of my favourite pieces of Warcraft writing. Haters gonna hate.

>>48385723
If he wants to include all areas from WoW and keep their relative size, the scale is WAY off. Teldrassil being about 800-900 km across? Even tenth of the size would be stretching it.

About 1000 km between Karazhan and Black Morass is NOT a day's journey.

>>48361647
Ironically, I'd say worgen, even though they are my favorite race. Only the males though.

Maybe I haven't been in the right zones, but fuck me if they don't do fuckall in the 3 expansions they've been in.

As another anon said, Draenei are probably the most interesting race. Litteraly every other race has been done to death.

>>48373971
>Gilneas

Obvious best taste in colours. On the other hand, we know their guards don't use the footmen armor, as shown in their starting zone.

>>48386881
>Honestly, Unbroken is one of my favourite pieces of Warcraft writing. Haters gonna hate.
as far as warcraft goes, its god tier

>>48362066
Oh my god Moira is adorable.

>>48386881
I wish the outland blue recolor of the DS1 set had shoulders like that (But with the moon-sticks added)

>>48364716
>Yeah it's shadowforge, and I want to be able to walk around there not as BRD so badly
If Blizzard ever gives BRD the scholomance treatment I swear I will find a way to summon Ragnaros under their HQ

>>48387598
Oh, I didn't so much mean changing the dungeon as making it a city that I could actually go around in

>>48387639
That would also be awesome, but the dungeon should remain.

>>48387507
The One True High Queen of the Alliance.

>>48386881
I'd like it if Draenei Shamans and Warriors ingame had Broken Models, since they're answering to things cruder and not as pure and awesome as the Light.

>>48387660
>>48387660
>some random coalburner
>true high queen

>>48388160

Not all draenei are zealous priests or paladins, dont pigeonhole races.

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Damnit I haven't played WoW in over a year and a half but some part of me really wants to give legion a try.

>>48386981
What pisses me off is there was suppose to be a major storyline for Worgen in WOD but it was cut out. And then add in that Worgen aren't getting a model update ever.

>>48388374
I didn't? But Shamans and Warriors in particular are a part of something so entirely separate from the Light that I feel it'd be a good representation. Working with the Elements and harnessing sheer Rage is a very different thing to the pure and aesthetically pleasing Light-endorsed Draenei is my only reasoning, that and I want it to happen.

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>>48360551
stat my drunken huntress/veterinarian

>>48385706
>>48383707
I can actually see it. From the beginning (this is probably dumb):

>The Titans actually do manage to kill off the Old Gods without hurting Azeroth too badly
>Y'Shraaj creates undeath as a dying middle finger to the Titans, the rest cast the Curse of Flesh to do the same
>Sargeras' attack on the Titans is interrupted by news from Azeroth
>he becomes interested, decides his Burning Legion needs more troops
>one runt-of-the-litter Titan escapes as a result
>Sundering happens as canon, Argus goes as canon, Draenor goes as canon EXCEPT the Orcs end up being convinced to rebel against the Legion by Velen, who tells them how Kil'Jaeden used to be his bro
>also Gul'dan bites it
>KJ is platinum mad
>Draenei and Orcs repair Exodar together, move to Azeroth to find a new home and start over together
>First War happens because Titan-Forged don't like alien invasions
>Natives also want to remove ayy lmaos
>Orcs and Draenei find Nagas working for the Legion
>Velen manages to convince them to break away somehow, I dunno
>Bam, Nagas
>fast-forward, Third War is happening
>Greymane BUILDS A WALL
>Scourge wrecks Lordaeron, but not as hard
>Arthas makes Terenas' death look like an accident to get the urn without fighting through everything
>still kills Uther so he can't tell everyone about Frostmourne
>beelines for Quel'thalas
>kills Sylvanas as normal
>rezzes Kel'Thuzad as normal
>gets ganked before they can reach Dalaran
>KT runs away to Northrend but sends an army to tear down the Wall, SW goes free
>SW decides first to leave the humans to their fate, but changes her mind when she finds out Lord Garithos (who survives) barred Gilneas from ever going back to the Alliance
>also she can't go back home either, the Sunwell is corrupt and it's partially her fault
>she and Greymane actually meet on amicable terms, kill Scourge together, have awkward conversations
>other Outcasts show up
>"hey guys I notice you can't go home, we can't go home either, wanna join us?"

>>48388504
>Damnit I haven't played WoW in over a year and a half but some part of me really wants to give legion a try.
I'm trying it now. I really, really hate the huge gouges to the spellbooks and abilities that you only have 4 or 5 buttons that do anything in combat anymore.

>>48389198
Would be nice if you had the opinion of choosing Broken appearance for the non-priest/paladin classes. At least shamans, since most shamans are probably Broken.

I wonder how shamans are seen in the Draenei society anyway. They were for a long time the only Alliance race that could be shamans, but I've always seen it still as a very marginal, and probably somewhat lookd down upon, part of their society. Shamans devote themselves to the elements instead of the Light, and the original Draenei shamans were the Broken, who turned to the elements when their connection with the Light was cut. For a perfectly healthy Draenei to become a shaman instead of a priest or paladin is probably seen as unconventional at the very least. Not to mention that the Draenei aren't entirely fond of the Broken. Initially they shunned them because they found the idea of being cut off from the Light to be disquieting, and thought the ffect might be contagious, and while they're more accepted now , they'd probably still be essentially second-class citizens, if for not other reason then for the fact that the Draenei society is heavily focused on the Light.

>>48389239
wow: the faggy crusade

>>48389360
>Would be nice if you had the opinion of choosing Broken appearance for the non-priest/paladin classes
I'd really like to see some options like that for a lot of races.
Especially if they ever add Arakkoa as playable with the option to be the hunched, cursed, flightless Arakkoa as warlocks and mages, but stand tall in their original form as a paladin or warrior.

>>48389360
That's so much more coherent than my original argument, thanks anon!

I was always under the impression that Draenei only got Shamans because Blood Elves got Paladins, both new races got the other factions exclusive class.

>>48389802
That's pretty obviously the case. Mechanics have always come before lore in WoW.

>>48385723
>Fantasy Writers Have No Sense of Scale

>>48389802
yeah. thats pretty much the actual reason.
Same reason why the blood elves are in the horde
the horde desperately needed a pretty race.

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>>48389916
I've always been fond of this map, even though it's not canon.

>>48390054
that looks pretty accurate to me.

>>48383014
My favourite Draenei design is the intermediate one, like in >>48386881

>>48361647

Either Tauren or Worgen, if we're counting Worgen as a race. Neither has actually done anything at all. Anyone saying 'troll' has apparently forgotten that trolls are literally the only sapient (playable) species actually native to Azeroth and have been fucking around (and fucking up) since there has BEEN sapience.

SHOCKINGLY, I'd absolutely play a troll. I have a thing for the tribal/aboriginal aesthetic, and few races embody aboriginal people like Trolls do (divisively resistant to and accepting of change, deeply ingrained traditions that are slowly melting or transforming, frequently marginalized, metrics of success that clash painfully with the more 'civilized' races, etc). The Tauren and Night Elves are kind of the bull shit 'great mystic spirit' aboriginals you see in a lot of poorly written media, and I don't really like them much.

>>48390379
It always bugged me how they apparently lost their tail, only to sprout three smaller tails/tentacles from the middle of their back. It just looks weird, and the original Draenei design (ie. the Lost Ones) don't have those either, so I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea.

>>48390458
Trolls are rad as hell. Island Troll Tribes was one of my favorite games back in WC3 because of this.

>>48390081
I enjoy it since it provides all these extra towns, rivers with ports, and mountains that make a little more sense. It makes the world feel larger.

>>48390627
>rivers with ports, kinda funny we never see any one of them, even though southshore and andorhal seem like prime places to have inland river trade.

>>48390815
expanding on this.
after the mess with tft, suppose someone competent actually takes command of the remaining lordaeronian forces, do you think they would attempt to take and hold andorhal so that they have an open trade route to the dwarves via southshore and menethil harbor?

It would be an excellent way to ferry troops directly into the plaguelands without having to attack scourge forces head on. You can use it to link up with the main road and the lumberyard, thus cutting the scourge forces in half in the wpl and then destroy them piecemeal.

>>48360551
>No thread title.

For shame.

Shaaaaame!

>>48391054
sorry, I didn't make this one.

>>48390928
The undedible would just throw gargoyles to intercept them, among many other things. And the water lore-wise is full of plague. You don't want to fall into that.

>>48391107
hey, somewhat contaminated water is a better option than having to take and hold long long stretches on not so defensible land and supplying your forces through it.

>>48389216
What's that armor set you have? I don't recognize it from this angle.

Post more maps pls

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>>48392512

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>>48392512
.

>>48389239
>Draenei and Orcs repair Exodar together, move to Azeroth to find a new home and start over together
No first and second war= Orcs haven't destroyed Draenor= no Exodar= no way off Draenor as Medivh doesn't help them create Dark Portal

>Orcs and Draenei find Nagas working for the Legion
Naga serve Old Gods, not Legion. No 3rd war= Illidan still imprisoned= no naga working for him (and Legion)

>fast-forward, Third War is happening
What Third War? Without orcs serving the Legion, there wouldn't be the Lich King... which means...

>Scourge wrecks Lordaeron, but not as hard
No Scourge

>still kills Uther so he can't tell everyone about Frostmourne
And no Frostmourne

>beelines for Quel'thalas
>kills Sylvanas as normal
>rezzes Kel'Thuzad as normal
>gets ganked before they can reach Dalaran
>KT runs away to Northrend but sends an army to tear down the Wall, SW goes free
You said undead are serving the Old Gods. They don't care about Quel'thalas or summoning Archimonde... Legion is their enemy too

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>>48392936
Oh.

Disregard me, then, I am apparently worse at lore than Metzen.

>>48390054
Hrm need to see if I can find a bigger one some time soon.

>>48390627
What was that campaign?

>>48392531
>those 3 perfect lines connecting Khaz Modan to Stromgarde

Was the Thandol Span in WC2?

>>48393162
That's a failure so significant that there should be an achievement for it.

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>>48393640
I didn't even try.

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>>48393591
>Following their defeat at Dun Modr, the Orcs were forced to retreat south, across the Thandol Valley to a secondary outpost at Dun Algaz. Lord Lothar, hoping to push the Orcs even further back into Khaz Modan, has ordered that you destroy this newly discovered encampment. To aid you in your mission, you will be able to employ Knights who are eager to engage the Horde in glorious battle.

>>48393991
the way the orcish narrator pronounces "Dun Algaz" always makes me feel a little tingly. Blizzard's voice actors area always so fucking good (except for Dragon Soul for some reason)

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>Gul'dan story

Why does the world look like fucking Outland? Also, it's about alternate him too, right? Seems shit that main and alternate Gul'dan hail from completely different places.

>>48374378
Looks like this guy didn't read the demon hunter book.

>>48394476
It's all the same tale of Gul'dan until the intro to WoD where Grom refuses to drink the blood.
It doesn't make sense with the old canon, where Gul'dan was part of the Shadowmoon as apprentice to Ner'zhul, so he should have been in lush Shadowmoon Valley.
Still, old Draenor had plenty of desert and scrubland.

>>48394476
looks like Gorgrond. AU Gul'dan is supposed to be a Blackrock I guess

>>48394766
>>48394767
He collapsed in the desert then crawled all the way to the throne of the elements? Gul'dan doesn't seem much of a cripple after all. I like getting solid lore background but that video feels really convoluted.

>>48394882
It's NuBlizzard. They can't be arsed to check their old lore or to even check their own maps.

>>48394882
>He collapsed in the desert then crawled all the way to the throne of the elements?
when you've got a destiny you've got a destiny I guess. Maybe it was Spires of Arak with some heavy artistic licence?

So how about that Anduin comic?

>>48395092
During the course of future expansions Anduin won't die. Better yet, our victory is assured up until he's old as shit, I guess. I'm salty as hell they included that "many years later". Took all the danger away from the story for me.

>>48395283
That last page was a mistake really. It would have been fine without it. I wonder his throne being on the Exodar means anything at all.

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>>48395363
>High King

Unless other human nations unite under Anduin making him the 'High King', it would seem the Alliance probably serves him eventually.

We one world government now.

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>>48395553
>>48395363
Does he ever get to go /ss/ with Auntie Jaina?

>>48395654
Maybe some on the side fun when Kalecgos kicks the bucket from the dragon madness curse. Anduin's heart however will always belong to Velen.

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Despite the shitty retconning of his origin story, why is Gul'dan such a better villain than WoW has had since Arthas?

>>48396053
Because they're somewhat relatable compared to the collection of nutcases and 'muh corruption' that Blizz has been running these last few years?

>>48396053
>implying that Lei Shen and Garrosh aren't better than Arthas "I was only pretending to be retarded" Menethil

>>48396239
Lei Shen had to personality and Garrosh was nothing but "gurr I r urk!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3QJ8Pgjj3c

Haven't seen anyone post it, so here ya go.

>>48394882
Gul'dan mentioned it took months. Probably scrounged what he could to stay alive. It's not like he just magically appeared there.

>>48369839
>pic
What ever happened to those two?

>>48396466
>Lei Shen
>no personality

Is this bait?

>>48390458

>If it weren't for the titans, this world would be inhabited by nothing but various cultures of troll.

>>48396466
t. aran zhu

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>>48373795

Footmen are starting to look REALLY out of place in a setting where there's tanks and fighter planes and riflemen and machine guns mixed with wizards and mages. What tactical role do they still serve in such an age?

>>48397545
>What tactical role do they still serve in such an age?
shield slamming

>>48397545
The first quest for both factions in Pandaland really drives this point home.
>chew through footmen using a mounted .50 cal
>ride along in a helicopter firing rockets down onto helpless grunts
Both of which sound more like segments in a Call of Duty campaign rather than quests in a high fantasy setting.

>>48397654
Have you seen the demon star destroyers yet?

>>48397654
>>48397784
Further proof blizzard doesnt know what the fuck warcraft is anymore.

>>48397784
No. I stopped following Warcraft lore at the end of Pandaria. Why?

>Not Anduin x Li LI
Shittest taste.

>>48397545
the thing about infantry in Warcraft is that Azerothian smiths will always be able to make armor that's strong enough to reasonably protect you against small arms fire while being light enough to wear into battle. It's weird from our point of view, but IRL no one ever had access to Saronite or blackrock or any of the other supermetals that make modern warfare on Azeroth possible. When you're not basically guaranteed to die, it's a lot easier to run down the guy with the gun and give him a proper thrashing

>>48398051
Deadly blunt force trauma aside. You realize the bullets would presumably be made of the same materials, right.

>>48398297
not necessarily. It could be the principle behind adamantium in Dwarf Fortress. Armor made from it is god tier because it's so strong, but hammers made from it are useless because it's so light. Depending on the strength to weight ratio of the material, it's possible that it would not be able to pierce itself when made into a bullet

>>48397425
Not true! There'd also be the Pandaren, Furbolgs, etc.

And all the Old God minions, assuming the Titans still EXIST and just never found Azeroth.

>>48398333
>There'd also be the Pandaren, Furbolgs, etc.

Nope, along with other wild god offshoots, like the Tauren etc. Who created the emerald dream where the wild gods originated from? Freya.

>>48398489
Oh.

What even is WoW anymore?

>>48394766
Au Draeneor and MU Draenor aren't really a 1 to 1 match; for example the village Garrosh lived in in Outland doesn't exist in AU Draenor (and neighter does Garrosh himself, for that matter). Still, one would assume that both Gul'dans are the same person, so they seem to have retconned him being a Shadowmoon and Ner'zul's apprentice.

>>48396053
He's just such a complete asshole, and loving every moment of it, that you can't help but to like him. He doesn't believe he's workign for a higher cause, and he isn't corrupted by some outside force (well, he is fel-corrupted, but he was just as much an asshole before that, so all the corruption really did was turn him green). He just wants more power to himself, and doesn't care about the consequences.

>>48398586
raid simulator.

>>48378788
Ask him why he is such a bitch and still isn't the Ashbringer when I am now?
Dudes been cucked about holding a sword so many times it is hilarious.

>>48396053
Lei Shen is best. He has a plan and a cool aesthetic and is awesome. Gul'Dan is great and all, but his schtick starts and ends with "Being evil is great fun".

>>48398489
Doesn't Chronicles leave that vague? That Freya either created the Emerald Dream, or found it?

>>48398586
A lot of the mystery was removed with the chronicle book. I still think it was the correct move (clearing up and clarifying lore) but its release definitely has cons. Now that second book coming in a few months on the other hand...

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>>48395553
I hope not. A utopia action without inner drama is a snoozefest.

That said, the writers have utterly failed to show the 'High King' position as anything but a 'Blue Warchief", yet insist on calling them an alliance. And I don't care for throwing 'high' in front of a title to denote a higher status. Just go with God-Emperor already.

>>48393162
It's not that bad, after all, your goal is to change the history, isn't it? Thing is, changes have consequences. You could get roughly the same results, but it would take more changes.

If draenei allied themselves with orcs and convinced them not to accept Legion's gift, what would happen? We've seen some of that in WoD: Legion would start to work against them in secret, through the Shadow Council. They'll try to sow discord and corrupt both chieftains not satisfied with the situation (Kilrogg in WoD) and other races. Perhaps they'll convince ogres that the orc/draenei alliance is a threat. Perhaps they'll try to summon a massive demon army. Even if Gul'dan dies, there are other power-hungry members of Shadow Council, even if they are less capable. Perhaps massive demon portals destroy Draenor like Ner'zhul's escape attempt did, causing the Naaru to investigate and give draenei and orcs a way out... not just through Exodar, but through the whole Tempest Keep. Perhaps some other force (arakkoa? There would be nobody to help the exiles and adherents aren't friendly) take the role belves had in the event surrounding MU Exodar, attacking Tempest Keep and forcing draenei/orc Horde to flee.

On Azeroth, the 3 wars would be different. Medivh suddenly doesn't have access to orcs, but Sargeras' plans are still the same. He could keep his corruption hidden longer, and search for other servants... let's say trolls. Perhaps Kil'jaedan finds someone to take a role of the Lich King if trolls fail... one of the trolls (Drakuru?), or, if Exodar crashes on Azeroth and causes a conflict (Which I'm not sure it would happen... draenei are willing to talk before starting hostilities, but they look like demons and orcs are savage and violent... perhaps they don't get a chance to solve matters diplomatically. If they crash on Kalimdor, Tyrande will assume they are Eredar, perhaps waking Illidan, who will call naga to play), one of the survivors of the war, whoever will it be.

>>48400411
Neat.

>>48400411
Now how to get the Worgen and the Forsaken on the same side?

I hate that nelfs became politically correct in wow

I was inlove with the xenophobic loving nature kaldorei

>>48400568
they are still nature loving xenophobes for the most part. Kosak just made them into bimbos.

>>48400600
idk men, in w3 tyrande herself killed humans jsut because they were cutting trees, they have been tramsformed in peace hippies

I really hated that feat in MoP, characters like tyrande, cenarius and maiev were destroyed

>>48400690
Don't forget things like Tyrande, military commander with 10k+ years of experience (a lot of it in guerilla fighting) needed to be told that frontal assault on heavily entrenched position is a stupid idea.

>>48396053

Gul'dan was spawned from an era when being cartoonishly evil and loving it was considered acceptable traits for a villain. He's basically Warcraft Shiev.

>>48400568
There was some of that in Wolfheart if I remember right. The wardens really didn't like the 'lesser races'. It's too bad the book was garbage overall though. From the way Legion looks (Maiev sucking adventure cock) that will probably be the last see of xeno Kaldorei sadly.

>>48396053
Gul'dan is good, but so was Garrosh and Lei Shen.
I wish Blizzard would learn to keep some of its villains alive for future use, but I think Gul'dan is gonna pull a Garrosh.

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>>48400765
>>48400690
How else are they going to promote Varian as the Alliance Warchief though?

>>48397425
Trolls only appeared after the Titans set up shop.

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>>48373795
The best thing to come out of WC3 was the footman design.

Generic as fuck, but in a good way.

>>48400533
Sylvanas would need to be less of a bitch.

Let's say that after Scourge destroyed Lordaeron, Quel'thalas and Dalaran, they turned on the only major opponent left on the continent: Gilneas. Details of the Scourge in this timeline aren't that important. Whether it serves Legion or Old Gods, whether the Lich King is Ner'zhul, Drakuru or Kel'thuzad. Greymane Wall wouldn't hold forever... it's great against ground army, true, but nerubians can burrow under it, gargoyles and frost wyrms could fly over it... sooner or later it would fall. It wouldn't even take whole Scourge to destroy Gilneas, but Lich King's weakness cause the Forsaken to break away from the Scourge. Seeking allies, they attack the Scourge army in Gilneas from behind, and they'll destroy it toget (now, human worgen weren't a thing by this point in MU, but perhaps Arugal's experiments went faster this time, and he somehow made it beyond the wall before the Scourge came). The alliance between worgen and undead would be tenous at best, but enemy of my enemy....

But how to connect worgen/forsaken alliance to draenei/orc counterpart? Naga and Illidan. If you want to keep belves in the native camp, let's say there was no Garithos and belves in Lordaeron this time around. He had only naga when he cast the ritual that damaged the Frozen Throne and weakened the Lich King, that's fine. After the failure of that plan, he searched for more allies, and found Forsaken/worgen instead of belves. They agreed to help him destroy the Frozen Throne... but if they failed (like in MU), Illidan can't hide in Outland this time around... there's no Dark Portal, and perhaps he doesn't know how to gate there. Fearing Kil'jaedan's wrath, he seeks help from the only force he knows that (semi)sucessfuly defied the Legion: draenei/orc Horde. New Alliance of draenei, orcs, Forsaken, worgen and Illidan's naga is born. They don't care about titan-born and natives as long as they are left alone and focus on Scourge and Legion

>>48400918

>Generic

For what they are, I'd dare say that your footman of Azeroth gets a highly ornate set of armor for his position. In fact, the reason that they're so common still is because they probably made tens of thousands of footmen plate sets and it'd be a waste to just dump them all, so anyone that signs up for guard duty gets a suit; it won't block a rifle, but it'll give you a leg up from your average Defias bandit or murloc.

>>48400568
In tft, Tyrande was already far friendlier to strangers.and quick to help the blood elves.

>>48397545
>>48398051
>>48398297
>>48398321
>>48400949

There could be few reasons, supermaterials allowing for better armor than what we had available in real world is one of them.

Inertia is another: it is about 30 years since firearms (including cannons) started being used reguraly in a warfare, and less than 10 (since Garrosh got to power) since the enemy started to use them on a massive scale: 1st, 2nd and 3rd war Horde used mostly melee and throwing weapons. Plate armor is good against that, and you'll want it if you faced someone phisically much stronger and tougher.... speaking of which...

There are enemies that can take a bullet without even slowing, whether is it because they are just that tough (orcs, tauren, troll, many demons) or because thea don't have any vital organs (most undead, Mogu, golems). Melee is better against them, because melee weapons cause more massive injuries, and you'll want to be protected.

Fantastic monsters. Unarmored gun formation stops being so appealing when the enemy can burrow in the middle of the soldiers (nerubians and other bugs), fly (dragons, gargoyles, wyverns, more bugs) or teleport (demons). Even cavalry who could cross the distance quickly would be dangerous.

Lot of enemies doesn't have the same technology level: footmen aren't threatened by guns and cannons when they fight against trolls, vrykul, bugs, etc.. Gaming conveniences aside, most WoW firearms are still relatively primitive, single shot and slow loading. You don't always have machne gun prepared, in which case you'll want someone to stand between the enemy and your vulnerable gunners. See pike and shot formations.

Of course, that's not counting out of universe reasons, like intended aesthetics

>>48400882
Worse character writing just behind demi-god green jesus

>>48401174
What happened to Thrall?

>>48401182
He is metzen self-insert and a mary sue

>>48401142

The problem with the "superior armor" theory is that in-lore, a footman's armor is made of steel, or thorium perhaps if he's lucky, and far, far greater materials have since become the norm in both melee and ranged weapons technology ever since vanilla, so there is very little chance his armor will protect him from a direct hit of any military-grade ranged weapon once you go beyond Cataclysm in the timeline.

I think the best explanation is that humanity had what on Earth took the greater part of 800 years of progress suddenly and violently trusted onto it in the span of a single lifetime, and is trying its damnest to get through the transition, but you can only do so much because holy shit you just jumped from crossbows to machine guns in the span of a few years, and said crossbowmen are still living, wondering "dang, what just happened"?

Footmen exist because the logistics base to replace them with riflemen just isn't there yet and they do their current jobs as glorified policemen well enough, and what's more important; rearming a bunch of dudes that shouldn't be seeing the front lines and are mostly doing garrison duty, or sending those rifles that you would give them to a new unit you are intending on using in combat?

In fact, footmen also use crossbows as a side-arm; the implication being that they're using the hand-me downs of the Alliance while the actual army uses "modern" equipment, more or less.

>>48401228
Footmen are still in modern alliance armies, they are not just city guards

>>48401228
Don't underestimate Footman armour, other Alliance races have since adopted it.

>>48400856
And she will be >le evil racist elf

>>48401260
this. If it's good enough for night elves to switch too, it's obviously a good idea

>>48401003
For one thing, he's another elf who recognizes her own culture, and for another, it isn't her forest he's wandering get around in. They meet as near-equals on much more amicable terms, rather than her finding him chopping up het favorite trees. So it's not really a departure from her original character.

>>48401573
REEEE

>>48402172
stealth archery only works in forests, leave it to humans to figure out how to fight a real war

>>48402585
are you forgetting the giant ent+ sized creatures, a sizeable navy and the like?

>>48402629
>are you forgetting the giant ent+ sized creatures,
that don't leave Kalimdor and only live in forests
>a sizeable navy and the like?
Stormwind's is larger and more advanced

I'm still waiting for Wranduin to be confirmed, damn it. Damn it Blizzard, just do it, you fuckers, pander to my dick.

>>48400690
Maiev is love. She can hunt me down and imprison me any day.

Is anyone else disappointed that they took off her armor in Legion? Maiev without armor is like a turtle without a shell. It just ain't right.

>>48402778
I have no idea what she looks like under the armour. For all we know it could be Vol'jin.

>>48402698
stormwind never had a navy worth a damn until the wotlk. Hell, the worgen are rescued by the night elves, and no random gunships pulled out of the writer's asses don't count.
>>48402778
what does she look like w/o armor

>>48402778
>Is anyone else disappointed that they took off her armor in Legion?
I didn't know about that, but now I am disappointed.
Maiev being a magical stealthy zealot in heavy armor is what makes her neat.

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what did they mean by this?

>>48402884
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=92987/maiev-shadowsong

>>48402884
>Hell, the worgen are rescued by the night elves

Because the Night Elves feel bad for cursing Gilneas's shit up.

>>48403041
Hatesex. Lots and lots of hatesex.

>>48403041
Illidan wants to continue the BDSM play he and Maeiv have been doing for ten thousand years. She's just nervous at playing a new role.

>>48403388
Finally, Maiev will roleplay as Tyrande. Illidan's been waiting so long for that.

>>48400690
Tyrande was, but Malfurion wasn't.

>>48403041
Where exactly is this from?

>>48401640
As generic as Warcraft 1 was. The art is kind of awesome.

>>48401205
It's sad really. Especially considering how he was actually pretty well written before Cataclysm. I mean, just look at the Horde version of the Onixia attunement quest chain: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Quest:What_the_Wind_Carries

>>48400918
>A Footman is leader of a army.

Yeah, right.

>>48403694
samwise and metzen were just kids out of college then.

>>48403668
probably willy king's book.

>>48403083
can I get a screencap, I can't see the wowhead model viewer.

>>48403812
Its just a generic nelf npc
>>48402698
Kaldorei had been fighting more than guerrilla warfare.

Wasmt Stormwind pulled from nothing just to fit WoW? In W3 Jaina was portrayed as the biggest human contingent and the nelfs as more strong, then you go to WoW and their biggest city is 5 years old followed by astranaar.

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>>48403812

Ayy Illidan's model in BT got updated in the last patch.

He looks really out of place among the TBC models now.

>>48404371
I noticed that, too.
>Did you do something with your horns?

>>48403996
Stormwinf existed in lore since WC1 (althought the map of the first game has it named "Stonewind"; probably a typo since it's already referred as Stormwind in the manual of WC2). It got sacked by Orcs in the canonical ending of WC1, though, so around WC3 it probably wouldn't have fully recovered yet.

>>48403996
>Wasmt Stormwind pulled from nothing just to fit WoW? In W3 Jaina was portrayed as the biggest human contingent and the nelfs as more strong, then you go to WoW and their biggest city is 5 years old followed by astranaar.

How did you even find this thread?

>>48404581
>probably a typo since it's already referred as Stormwind in the manual of WC2).
I assume you mean manual of wc1, since it's already referred to as Stormwind in the warcraft: orcs vs humans manual even though it says stonewind on the map.

>>48404660
I knew it existed, and I knew it was sacked, but in WoW it just appeared as the strongest nation/race

When Activision bought Blizzard the lore was condemmned.

>>48404708
>but in WoW it just appeared as the strongest nation/race
They were rebuilding while every other nation got its shit wrecked.

>>48404144
thanks.

>>48404708
>>48404792
Most of the human starting area is all about how Stormwind took the mason's from all the other destroyed nations and promised them everything if they rebuilt Stormwind in no time and suped up their military. Then realizing they had bankrupted themselves swore not to pay them and the crafters became the defiace brotherhood.

>>48404371
Oh god and they updated Tirion in ICC so his voice lines are just coughing and sputtering.

>>48404708
In the wc3 manual it is said that Terenas convinces a lot of other nations to help rebuild the kingdom of Azeroth, and it manages to largely stay out of the conflict in wc3.

For World of Warcraft they could've basically chosen between the humans 5 starting areas.
Theramore, Gilneas, Stromgarde, Stormwind, Kul Tiras.
Maybe Dalaran, but not really.

Gilneas and Stromgarde were officially out of the alliance, but having them come back is not too strange.
Stromgarde over Gilneas since Gilneans are isolationists.

Theramore would've meant an imbalance between faction races distribution on the two continents.
Kul Tiras would've meant more work.
So there's Stormwind and Stromgarde left basically and Stormwind would mean going full circle and they have a closer tie to an alliance than Stromgarde.

The wc2 manual mentions the kingdom of Azeroth as the strongest human nation before the orcs arrive.

Also I think they started working on the area around Stormwind for world of warcraft first, iirc I saw screens from there and stranglethorn vale before wc3:roc was even released. Maybe it was a little later, but that was very early anyways so it's not surprise.

>>48404947
>I saw screens from there and stranglethorn vale before wc3:roc was even released.
That's also why STV was so fleshed out compared to other zones.

It was packed full of content when other places like Azshara had 10 possible quests.

New thread:
>>48404899
>>48404899
>>48404899

>>48373765
It was full-scale war before that. It was border skirmishes up until Cataclysm, when it erupted into an all out war. Pandaria was just an extension of that war and now after MoP there has been a tense peace.