/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>48322082
>Do you take inspiration from anime?
Inspiration of things to avoid.

>Do you take inspiration from anime?
I take inspiration from anywhere. I've taken inspiration from things that I don't even like, though in that case it's more of an "I can do this SO much better".

Figure I'll pose this question here: How do you handle Hunters that have found you out?

Our mixed game has now become a versus game, with another group playing Hunter, who have found us. Though we're individually vastly more powerful than any of them, as a cell they just steamroll everything we do. These fuckers are barely above base Mortal, but they've got a little bit of hedge magic, some divine relic that does...something mysterious and some nerd building fucking silver claymores in their basement.

We literally can't send our werewolf or his newly allied pack out anywhere because of the sheer amount of silver and fire these fucks are using. We've tried everything, following silver sales, weapons and chemical purchases, scouring entire blocks we can track them to, even divination. We can never find them or face them. The only time we came close was our Changeling trapping their combat monster in a warehouse with us, only for his group to start pumping fine silver particulate through the AC unit, plough a truck through the wall and break out flamethrowers.

We're locked in this stalemate with 5 mortals that we just can't seem to touch, and yet I know the GM isn't favouring them or fucking us over. Even if we were just retarded, shitty players, we should have killed/maimed at least one of them by now.

>>48322183
Yeah I wouldn't be caught dead watching anime.

>>48322435
>and yet I know the GM isn't favouring them or fucking us over

Not too sure about that m8. For a single cell they seem oddly well informed about your weaknesses.

Have you tried phoning the police about these heavily armed entirely mortal madmen?

>>48322435
Call the cops and tell them there's a group of madmen stalking and trying to kill you and your friends

>>48322478
We've tried police, and now the FBI is investigating our legit businesses about these seemingly random terrorist-level attacks. We think they have some kind of divination magic working for them, but we haven't been able to stop them.

They're always anonymous, in masks and only leave behind worthless half-destroyed blood/tissue/fluid samples, partial prints and never any hair. As best we can tell, they're not on any database we have access too, even after bypassing Barrett Commission stooges.

>>48322435
How even are they thinking of this stupid shit? Also, how are they getting away with this shit?

This sounds stupid. How is the ST even running this game? How are you in the dark even when you're using divination?

How have you not, just... followed them when they attack you and then shoot them? Seriously, just snipe them. Shit, you should be able to murder them, flamethrowers or no.

>>48322572
Your ST is hardcore favouring them.

You have a werewolf right? "Recruit" a load of spirits to fucking Blast them from Twilight. Unless you're telling me they can control spirits too

>>48322435
What supernaturals do you have? Last time we had Hunters they were turned into a non-issue by cursing one of them with contagious bad luck that spread through sympathy.

>>48322435
>We can never find them or face them

This may be the biggest problem. Being outsmarted by mortal hunters with a penchant for audacity is one thing.

It's quite another to face an enemy that seems to know exactly where you are and how to hurt you while being completely untraceable themselves. If divination and all sane avenues of investigation both come up empty on how to hit back either the ST is screwing with you or there is a major piece of the puzzle you just don't have.

Also to do all this they need to be ploughing in so much money and resources. That shit should traceable, either by you or the cops.

>>48322593
Game's online with two co-STs that are physically in the same room together. We just enter different Discord channels and roll separately.

They use hit and run tactics, catch us at our worst possible moments or engineer a situation that suits them, then escape. Not all of us can keep up with speeding cars.

We have managed to follow them before, using CCTV and security footage to place them in a radius of an industrial area, but even with werewolves hunting and divination, they always seem to slip away. I'm fairly certain their artefact has some kind of warding ability and the nerd making all their gear is also a hacker.

>>48322572
>FBI is investigating our legit businesses about these seemingly random terrorist-level attacks

Turn on the news and see what happens after just one shooting or bomb attack linked to terrorism. Multiple strikes by the same guys in the same area with no regard for collateral damage should have every alphabet soup agency on them like piranhas.

>>48322635
Working on that. We're also resorting to making deals with pretty shitty kinds of monster to take them out of the equation.

>>48322642
Changeling, Werewolf, Body Thief and magical undead

>>48322644
>there is a major piece of the puzzle you just don't have
Most certainly this. We're missing something big, but even NPC advisers don't know what it is. They just seem to appear, then melt away like fucking Viet Cong ninjas

>>48322572
>>48322756
Problem is that shitty STs and supernatural effects that twist perception and responses look the same from a player seat. Assuming either just leads to disappointment.

>>48322802
>Body Thief

So Immortals is in play?

Find a Purified and have it follow them and allahu ackbar everyone

>>48322802
What sort of Werewolf? Can they contract spirits?

>>48322802
>>48322803
>>48322686
Are you just... bad at the game or something or what? Lure them out, have snipers shoot them. You have allies, you have mental manipulation powers.

Your STs sound bad and these people don't sound like Hunters. Shit, just go through to Shadow and have the Werewolf use Two World Eyes. Put an actual tracer on their car.

>>48322984

>>48322802 >>48322686 and >>48322803 are 2 different posters. Sounds like the hunters are paranoid enough to turn down lures or have a relic that warns them of it. Snipers are less reliable against a good cell.

>>48322467
>>48322184
For some reason, whenever I see someone saying things like this I can only attempt to imagine the size of the fedora they're wearing.

>>48323604
What's wrong with my post? You shouldn't limit inspiration to only things you've enjoyed. And I'm pretty sure *everyone* has something they think could be so much better. The one that springs to mind is Eragon. Doing a fantasy remake of Star Wars should be a lot better than that shit.

>>48322082

I watch quite a lot of anime, but I've only used it as inspiration exactly once and in the loosest way possible. Anime doesn't really mesh with CofD.

>>48323708
>(Collection of various genres) doesn't really mesh with CofD.
Wut?

>>48323953

None of those genres really mesh with CofD, therefore anime doesn't really mesh with CofD. There are certainly bits and pieces, but there's no anime that you can point at and say, "yeah, that's what a CofD game would look like."

>>48324429

>None of those genres

????????

You know that Horror and Supernatural Horror are genres within anime, right? Serial Experiments Lain can easily be set within the God Machine Chronicle. Paranoia Agent is a CofD Mortals game. Also, Vampire Hunter D, dude? VAMPIRE hunter. There's also Hellsing, but some would argue that's stretching it. Boogiepop Phantom is also stretching it.

The anime industry in GENERAL tends to have really stupid tropes and conventions of media that don't work with CofD. But there are a good amount out there which are clearly set in the World of Darkness.

There are enough out there to nullify any sweeping statements like "anime doesn't fit with CofD." It makes more sense to say "most anime don't work with CofD. Because anime is usually garbage." Dunno if you think anime is garbage, but I think most of it is worse than the shit you see on WoD chatgame sites.

>>48323953
>(Collection of various genres)
Medium. The word you're looking for is "Medium". Media is the plural.
>>48323708
Several of the developers have admitted to being inspired by anime, and Persona 3 gets a callout in Geist. Ghost in the Shell is called out in Demon's STG.

Also, looking through all the books for the inspiration lists (which are spread out in Mortal Remains):
There are a LOT of out of the blue inspirational sources, things that are wacky or funny or not at all "fitting" of the World of Darkness.
Second is that Doctor Jess, the Promethean who uses zher pronouns, looks like David Bowie.
There's a group from Demon that I've never heard of called Luminous Labs.
I really need to read Mortal Remains more thoroughly. That's probably something to do today, since I need to make a good template for that Suicide Squad game, which I should have been doing this week instead of playing Dark Souls nonstop.

>>48324429
Yes, there are. Hell, I'm not even an anime fan and I'll do it (keep in mind I haven't seen most of these)
Speedgrapher
Hellsing (Ultimate)
Darker Than Black
Witch Hunter Robin
Serial Experiments Lain
Vampire Hunter D (which I've used in at least one thread starter image)
Paranoia Agent (anything by Satoshi Kon, really)
Rin: Daughters of Mnemosyne
Fate/Zero
Garden of Sinners
Blood+

>there's no anime that you can point at and say, "yeah, that's what a CofD game would look like."
Except for the at least two times that anime were suggested, that I mentioned above. In fact, a lot of the "Inspiration" sections aren't just "this is a gritty dark show". They suggest this, for fucks sake:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeta_Project

>>48324647
>I think most of it is worse than the shit you see on WoD chatgame sites.
I don't know whether you're being hard on anime or soft on MUSHes.

>>48324647
>Also, Vampire Hunter D, dude? VAMPIRE hunter.
>There's also Hellsing, but some would argue that's stretching it.

You think Hellsing is too over the top, but Vampire Hunter D isn't. Have you read ANY Vampire Hunter D?

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>>48322082
>Whats the most snowflake character you have seen?
Three threads late and I have the answer:
>http://www.csonline2.net/terrorists.html#page
>Born in the mid 90s in Asia, Yuri is an expert in everything related to explosives. She participated in the Islamic separation wars, and is known to have died during experiments with new explosives. But even after these rumors, she vanished and developed new explosives and has been sighted during the bombing of the Rex Research Institute.

>>48324837
From what I recall, the movies are just gothic horror (in the FUTURE) and not, like, London literally on fire as vampire Nazis invade.

>>48324875
>From what I recall, the movies are just gothic horror (in the FUTURE) and not, like, London literally on fire as vampire Nazis invade.

Yeah. In the novels there is stuff like D moving literally faster than light, crossing the gulf between stars by his own power, and shit like that. Hellsing is low-powered compared to D.

Early Hellsing is actually a great WoD inspiration, for theme, if not for characters. There is a noble line tasked with keeping England clear of monsters, a supernatural cold war between the Anglican and Catholic churches, with conspiracies brewing in the background, creating monsters and destabilising everything.

>>48324692
I was trying to hate on both anime and WoD chatgames. Both are about highschool relationship drama. I'm probably just bitter that I can't find many of either which I like.

>>48324837
Okay, you caught me. I looked at images and made assumptions. At a brief glance, it looked like Hellsing had the more outlandish character design. Point was, either one could be used for inspiration.

Brb, making a big titty Gangrel girl with enough Vigor to carry around an anti material rifle with extreme ease.

>>48324961
>Brb, making a big titty Gangrel girl with enough Vigor to carry around an anti material rifle with extreme ease.

Go beyond that. Victoria Seras uses anti-tank rifles.

>>48324692
>Garden of Sinners
This is like literally a game of Hunter.

>>48324972
Also she's a cute.

>>48325025
Personality-wise, sure, I also like her berserker tendencies.
Physically I generally prefer my women more slim though. Giant tits is a turn-off for me.

>>48324647
>>48324692

None of those are CofD as it is intended to be played, and the influences they have on the actual books are pretty shallow. CofD is like D&D in that the kind of stories it tells only really exist in the game itself and its later fictional derivatives. That's not a bad thing, it means that you really can pull all sorts of outside influences onto it, but it means that there's rarely going to be a work of media where you can point to it and say, "yes, this is what a CofD game is like".

Horror and Supernatural shows exist in anime, but none of those really hit on the kind of horror/supernatural stories that CofD tells.

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>>48325083
Careful there, friendo, you're almost talking as though you've watched any of those shows.

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>>48324916
Even the characters are pretty fitting, if you ask me.

>>48324961
>Brb, making a big titty Gangrel girl with enough Vigor to carry around an anti material rifle with extreme ease.
I've actually been meaning to make a Seras expy for F-list. I also need to stat out a sample character for that Suicide Squad game (which I'm now looking at how ridiculous CSO2 is instead of doing).

>>48325083
>None of those are CofD as it is intended to be played
Says who? Saying that, for instance, Witch Hunter Robin feels like a CofD game is just as reasonable as saying that Supernatural or Dresden Files feels like a CofD game.
And Dresden and Supernatural both get callouts several times.

Even then, National Treasure isn't how CofD is meant to be played, but still gets a callout as Inspiration in the Hunter corebook. Again, I don't really see your reasoning.

Why is Witch Hunter Robin not CofD? Why is Paranoia Agent not CofD? Why is Hellsing or Blood+ not CofD? What about Cowboy Bebop makes it ill fitting for an Infinite Macabre game? Why is Garden of Sinners or Fate/Zero not a Hunter game?

>>48325296
>Even the characters are pretty fitting, if you ask me.

Yeah. I just don't like it when people directly rip off characters.

>>48325083

Alright so what kind of stories does CofD tell, and how is CofD "intended" to be played?

>>48322082
>Do you take inspiration from anime?
My general answer to this is 'nope', but then I wondered whether you consider Avatar as anime or not; the episodes of the ancient world and the first Avatar in Legend of Korra did actually provide some inspiration for the weird meshed spirit/flesh landscape of the Sundered World.

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>>48325073

What are you, gay?

>>48325126

I'll admit that at the end of the day, this is all about personal taste and preferred gaming playstyles. I don't want to seem like I'm shittalking people who do draw inspiration from anime. I just see a lot of those animes as a very loose fit for the CofD as its presented. I'd never consider "any " of Satoshi Kon's works to be what a CofD game is, for example. Only Paranoia Agent comes close, and that's still more of a surreal psychological horror tale than a real GMC story. Mellow Maromi CAN be Infrastructure, but when you do that, it's not Paranoia Agent anymore.

This why I say it doesn't mesh: those shows are telling specific kinds of genre stories that either only mildly accompany or outright clash against the kind of genre story that CofD wants to tell through the usage of its mechanics and Storyteller advice.

That said, this does remind me that I need to check out Garden of Sinners.

>>48325394
I meant more in a "I could see these being in a CofD game" sort of way. Although I don't mind rip offs, though you know what they say:
>Creativity is hiding your sources
>Good artist borrow, great artists steal

>>48325428
Neato. I know Amy said she was inspired by Evangelion for Gods in the Earth (I don't see it).

>>48325585
I don't really agree with you at all.
>I'd never consider "any " of Satoshi Kon's works to be what a CofD game is, for example. Only Paranoia Agent comes close, and that's still more of a surreal psychological horror tale than a real GMC story.
Especially this. Why. How is that not what CofD is "intended to be played"? How are the things I listed not CofD material?
WHAT makes them ill fitting, and what do you feel is how CofD is "intended" to be played?

>>48325487
Half-half. Bi. I prefer muscle-girls, personally. And they tend to have rather small tits.

>>48325713
>>48325713
It's cool, he already admitted to it being about personal taste. When arguments get that thin and vague, usually they meant to specify "this is how I think X should be" not "this is how X should be for everyone."

>>48326659
That's why I want to know what he thinks CofD is intended to be played. I want to know what he thinks it IS supposed to be like.

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Why are Seers such slags?

>>48326950
Their masters have won so thoroughly they have remade reality itself. I'd say they can afford it.

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>>48327286
If we've already won,our servants might as well be hotties?

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stat me

>>48326950
To the victor go the spoils.

>>48327450
Destiny •••••, the rest is irrelevant.

>>48327742

He's got to at least be packing Physical as his Primary Attributes. Maybe not the person dressed up as him in that picture, though.

>>48327450
Large fey beast XP 700
Initiative +6 Senses Perception +12; low-light vision
HP 212; Bloodied 106
AC 22; Fortitude 22, Reflex 19, Will 20
Saving throws+2
Speed 7
Action points1
Claw (standard; at-will)
Reach 2; +12 vs AC; 2d6+5 damage
Double Attack (standard; at-will)
The owlbear makes two claw attacks. If both claws hit the same target, the target is grabbed (until escapes).
Bite (standard; at-will)
Grabbed target only; automatic hit; 4d8+5 damage.
Stunning Screech (immediate reaction, when first bloodied; encounter)
Close burst 1; +10 vs Fortitude; the target is stunned (save ends)
Align. UnalignedLang. None
Skills None
Str 20 (+9)Dex 14 (+6)Wis 16 (+7)
Con 16 (+7)Int 2 (0)Cha 10 (+4)
Equipment None

Can anybody tell me how much free reach I use when combining spells? The book is not much clear.

>>48329017

I'd imagine each spell is considered separately.

>>48326950
It comes with being a mage.

There was a preview/leak of the Storypath system info a while back, right? Anybody got a link?

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>When the Makara is an alcoholic
https://youtu.be/H5NqIsnyTG8

>>48330841
Here you go

Building a character background, but a question arose. Would it be weird for a character to go to a priests or bartender before committing suicide? Do people actually do so in real life?

>>48331130
depends. Priests and bartenders usually take the place of a therapist for some people. It would not be too hard to imagine wanting to be talked out of it at the last second.

>>48331130

Yeah, that sounds like something that would happen, usually as a last ditch effort to make amends or find a reason to live.

>>48331130
For a devout Catholic contemplating suicide, talking it out with a priest is definitely in character. It's a big-ass sin after all. One of the worst. Murder you can't repent for.

Did the rp subnet ever get reuploaded?

>>48332402
Yes. But that's gone, too.

>>48325073
I understand completely.

It must be hard to admit that you can only be turned on by twelve year old boys.

>>48332940
>Anyone without G cups is a 12 year old boy
Anon, the average porn star is something like 34B.

>>48331073

God, I'm so disgustingly excited for Scion 2e.

Do you think freelancer approvals will go out after Gen Con? I'm nearing the three month mark and wishing I could get a rejection letter at least.

>>48333044
>Not realizing that the G in G-cups stands for "Good Enough."

Guy from the last thread who asked about Gulmoth Rank. I ended up leaving him as Rank 1, because I remembered that he actually was supposed to be a pushover in my original notes.
He still ended up giving one of the players 2 Lethal before they managed to fulfill the circumstances I gave them and kill him with his bane.

I have another one planned for an upcoming story, though I dunno how far off it is. Planning to just port the Unwelcome Stranger from 1e to 2e rules, and use that, though, so it'll be a lot more subtle than the psuedo-werewolf they fought this time.

>>48326950
Seers art is so amazing.

They are such dicks though, no other wod faction compares to this pure and simple human douchery.

No eldritch horrors, no demons.
Just regular guys being huge dicks thanks to huge power.

>>48322756
>Turn on the news and see what happens after just one shooting or bomb attack linked to terrorism.

There is a desensitization effect once things happen more regularly.
And don't forget that the setting is World of Darkness. The kind of tragedies that we rarely experience happen regularly.
9 Cops killed, 9 injured in two tragic shootings is just a regular month in WoD.

>>48322435

Here's how you do it. Easy peasy. Lure them into an ambush.

Ward the Wolf's Den (Warding Gift, Glory) prevents any scrying in an area, so get it. Use it. Similarly Feet of Mist prevents your being picked up by any warding. At the very least there will be a Clash of Wills. Shutdown would shutdown any technological surveillance. So get that. Vampires have similar abilities with Blood Magic. Also Obfuscate.

Find an area with a locus and have your werewolves wait there in the shadow. Watch where they go. Step 4, kill them.

Use the Shadow against them, humans rarely have any defense against spirits. Also you can use spirits of surveillance, knowledge, etc. to Locate them.

Also, I don't think silver particulate should cause any real damage to a werewolf (Forsaken at least). They can wear silver without taking damage. Just a slight stinging sensation. So that might be a miscarriage of the rules on your GM's part. Elemental gift can turn their fire against them, they are much more vulnerable to that than werewolves are.

I'm only listing werewolf stuff because that's all you mentioned. Because of all the fire talk I assume there are vampires, but I can't be sure. (And Changelings, but I don't know them that well)

>>48332402
it's at raumwalross.tk
some parts are missing though

>>48335452
Personally I would consider inhaling silver particles much more severe than just touching it. When just touching silver it doesn't really enter your system.

>>48334765
I hate when people make this argument.
https://youtu.be/eaEeEbP16Wg
Look how much has happened in so short a time. This is literally just one small narrow slice of bullshit tragedy. This is solely "Black men killed by cops". It's been years of this. This isn't mentioning the terrorism or anything else.

Yes, tragedy happens and people get desensitized to it, but especially in WoD games people use that as a fucking excuse. "Lol I bet this shit happens all the time, why would the cops care about our group?"
No. Fucking stop that. You know damned well the only reason you get away with shit is because the ST allows it, that's not some inherent aspect of the setting, that's your troupe ignoring consequences because they don't want to think about how many questions would be asked when they blow up a warehouse or drive a truck through a goddamned building.

>>48336095
Wear a mask.

>>48337201

>You know damned well the only reason you get away with shit is because the ST allows it

But I thought cops arrived so slowly that you have plenty of time to make a clean getaway.

>>48337401
oh u
Two completely different situations. Getting into a fight and getting away is not the same as terrorist level shit. A werewolf can get into a scuffle with a beat cop, maul the shit out of him, and get away clean because a Werewolf can run faster than a police car and it'll take a few minutes just to realize something's gone wrong.

But if you start driving through buildings and shooting things up? Yes, cops will crack down and try to find you, or at least heighten security to stop whatever it is you're doing.

>>48337201
>Wear a mask.
But make sure you can take it off.

>>48337649
I think they stop being masks when you can't take them off.

>>48337664

R.L. Stein wrote a whole book about how that's not necessarily true.

Anybody done any Mind's Eye Theatre VtM stuff? It looks like there is a group in a small city near us ("Burlington by Night") that does it pretty regularly and the wife and I were thinking of checking it out. We've played tabletop VtM (and plenty other TTRPGs) but never LARPed. Any ideas what we should expect?

>>48337880

We have an active LARP ST who usually posts on the weekends who might be able to help you out further, but one thing you should probably expect is that LARPs on the whole tend to have more politics than a regular tabletop game, since it's an easier thing to do with a huge mass of people. However, LARPs differ wildly from city to city, so it might be best to call ahead and ask about the game or even see if you can watch the game without playing.

>>48337201
I imagine that mask which would suit werewolf regardless of his form is a bit hard to come by.

>>48322082
>Do you take inspiration from anime?

Hell yeah, considering my Requiem games are essentially "Black Lagoon with fangs" instead of the more common whiny angstfest games that CofD/WoD games are allegedly "supposed" to be like.

tl;dr Black Lagoon is awesome.

>>48337880
It's cool if you have a competent ST, avoid the newer BNS material unless you like overbearing and nonsensical metaplot combined with super-edgelord bullshit that would put 90's White Wolf to shame.

BNS is slightly more mechanically sound, but the old MET books are cheaper, you can easily find old copies on Amazon for a low price, and if you don't want to use the metaplot, it's not as much of a big deal, and if you do want to use it, you still can, it's just not forced on you like it is in BNS.

>>48338678

What's the split between tradtional White Wolf MET and BNS MET in LARP groups these days? I've always wondered.

>>48338700
Mind's Eye Society (the semi-official WW sanctioned LARP group) has recently changed over from MET to BNS when applicable, while if I remember correctly, One World By Night still uses the old MET rules, I may be wrong on that one since I've never played in an OWBN game but I think they still use MET while I know for sure that MES uses BNS (except in their nWoD/CofD games, where they use the old 1e nWoD LARP books and tabletop supplements)

The various independent LARP's vary from area to area on what system they use.

Personally I prefer MET since it's cheaper (out of print technically, but easier to acquire hard copies for a low price), has more support in terms of sourcebooks, and as I said before, the metaplot isn't mechanically hardwired into the game, it's more fluff so you can take it or leave it as you see fit more easily.

>>48338770
Also, I forgot to mention that both MES and OWBN have a lot of restrictions, rigid hierarchy, and bureaucracy that naturally comes with being a national organization. If you have no problem with such things, go ahead and find a local group in your area that belongs to one of these organizations (as a rule, they're easier to locate than independent LARP's)

However, if you want a more laid-back LARP experience, you may have to seek out an independent group and find out what system and themes they use, and then join them from there if possible.

Has anyone ever ST'd a White Wolf LARP? If so, what system did you use and how did it go?

>>48338636
Oh, hey, Camilla. Haven't seen you in a while.

>>48338813
>>48338770

That reminds me that I still have the 1e nWoD LARP stuff on me somewhere. Do those actually hold up in play? It reads like a pretty awkward system to use.

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I lurk in these threads and on other forums that deal with World/Chronicles of Darkness and, for some reason, it seems like the most toxic people gravitate toward these games.

Why is that? Am I the only one who gets this impression? Man I just want to tell a cool story.

>>48339794

same here. I stopped lurking these threads years ago. Share those stories anon.

>>48339794
Interesting. My impression was that mostly it were people prone to calling everyone not sharing their view on whatever issue "toxic" who were gravitating to C/WoD. I don't mind them though, it's not that hard to ignore them.

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Ok, so, I was a huge fanboy of World of Darkness who received something like a redpill from a friend.
I have some questions here.
First, how more easy is the cod? I was playing mage and to do your shenanigans you have to do a lot of complicated stuff. Is that it about all the games of CoD?

Second, I never saw anything doing this, but it's ok to make a campaing where your players can be anything? One a Vampire, and another a Mage? What are your toughts about it?

Third, should I use translation guides to make things easier for me? Just bring the "lore" of CoD and use the WoD Storyteller?
Sorry my bad english and thanks in advance.

>>48341191
>First, how more easy is the cod? I was playing mage and to do your shenanigans you have to do a lot of complicated stuff. Is that it about all the games of CoD?
Mage magic system is rather freeform which might make it quite complicated. Other gamelines have much more simple system.

>Second, I never saw anything doing this, but it's ok to make a campaing where your players can be anything? One a Vampire, and another a Mage? What are your toughts about it?
It isn't uncommon, the problem is that various lines aren't balanced against each other, which might make Vampire player feel completely useless compared to Mage.

>>48341191
>who received something like a redpill from a friend.
What?

>First, how more easy is the cod?
The books could be better laid out, but pretty easy. Mage is the most complicated game, but it's not actually as complicated as it looks. were you playing 1e or the newest release?
>it's ok to make a campaing where your players can be anything?
It's not the best idea (differing power levels and themes), but you can do whatever you want.
>Third, should I use translation guides to make things easier for me? Just bring the "lore" of CoD and use the WoD Storyteller?
There's only like four games that have been "translated" like that, but for 1e, not the new one. Why would you ever want to play oWoD mechanics over CofD?

I'm not sure I'm even answering the right questions...

>>48340490
>>48339794
I've learned that often people who complain about a game's community are the people who generally make that community bad.
Unless you're talking about LARP or moderated chat games, in which case yes. People are more toxic than Blighttown and just want to ruin your fun. And will OOC engineer things so that they are the only clique with fun.

>>48342060
>Unless you're talking about LARP or moderated chat games, in which case yes.
That's not even exclusive to WoD/CofD, afaik

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>>48342060
Actually I wanted to play CofD in oWoD mechanics.

And I was using 2e.


>>48342037
Thank you both for the answers.

>>48342512
>Actually I wanted to play CofD in oWoD mechanics.
That's what I said. Why would you ever want to play oWoD mechanics when you have the ability to use CofD ones?

Even from a very simple mathematical standpoint, the newer ones are better.

>>48342037
>It isn't uncommon, the problem is that various lines aren't balanced against each other, which might make Vampire player feel completely useless compared to Mage.

Yeah. A vampire can be really good at combat and mind control. A mage can be really good at ANYTHING.

>>48342550

Someday, people are going to learn that "better" doesn't mean shit in the tabletop industry. People have their "home" systems, and they don't really want to go outside of those for reasons of time and financial investment.

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>Playing VtM
>Threw some molotovs into a house to burn it down because we went in a couple nights ago and found a bunch of people fleshcrafted into furniture, and we figure this is the best way to deal with it
>Standing by the car watching the blaze
>Suddenly a gunshot
>Hits me right in the jaw, does enough damage to torpor me
>Reflexively spend a blood point to reduce it to just incapacitated
>mfw

>>48343013
While it's true that people will often refuse to upgrade (I've been mashing the "no I don't want Windows 10 button), most people will still prefer the new hotness, especially when it is better and plays smoother.

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malkiasyd reporting in

My FLGS has a lot of the first edition oWod books, on the consignment shelf, for sale super cheap. Is there any thing that might be worth picking up? Any old books not scanned and uploaded yet?

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>tfw anime has finally invaded my WoDG
R.I.P sweet prince

>>48344015
The Tradition books for the Sons of Ether, Verbena and Virtual Adepts are absent for any edition in the mega.

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>>48344132
>Finally
Anime has been here for ages. Why do you think the oWoD parody game is "Trenchcoats and Katanas"?

So as someone who didn't follow Mage 2E's development, can I get a bulletpoints summary of mechanical changes between the editions?

>>48344281
That's not really from anime specifically. In the 80s, which is when WoD arose, ninjas and trenchcoat samurai ronin were all over film and TV, and they all had Katanas.

>>48344503
- Better

There's your list

>>48344703
Not if you like Obrimos.

>>48344827
Nobody liked Obrimosq

>>48344827
Only by comparison to the others.
Obrimos still have some pretty neat stuff.
It's just many of the other paths have been enhanced to such levels that they're utterly fucking broken.

>>48344883
I'd wait until the errata to really decide on that. There is a good chance shit will get toned down.

>>48344883
Many of the others = Acanthus

>>48344281

It's not an anime reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UatstCF2QGA

A lot of the stereotypical aesthetic for oWoD comes from Highlander. Katanas and Trenchcoats focuses on Immortals, much like Highlander. oWoD started a little bit before 90s anime fandom hit critical mass.

>>48344503
Time is the new Mind. All hail Acanthus master race.

>>48344827

But Obrimos are my favorite Path in 2e, anon. The new stuff Prime can do is a ton of fun.

>>48343158
An excerpt from that game, shortly before the gunshot
>Jack lights his second molotov and throws it through another window.
>Jack: Y'know, it might be one of the biggest threats to our existence, but fire is fucking cool.
>Jack leans on the car and watches the blaze.
>Franklin: "This'd almost be enjoyable if it weren't for the blood curdling screams."
>Jack: ...Right. I've been trying my best to ignore them.

>>48345815
Yeah, sure. But EVERYTHING costs tons and tons of mana.

>>48345896

Not the best spell, where you give Sleepers some Mage Sight and watch them go bonkers in the hopes of forcing an Awakening.

>tfw no Obrimos Guardian cult leader with dangerously low Wisdom

>>48345947
That sounds more along the lines of what a mad Silver Ladder would do..

>>48345990

It's important to remember that Guardians believe in allowing the worthy to Awaken; it's the Seers who want to block everyone. Guardian cults exist to weed out the idiots and hopefully steer people who can see through the occult noise to the legit Supernal.

VtM question: if a ghoul is embraced, are they still blood-bound to their sire? What if the last infusion of vampiric vitae was a while ago (so the bond is weaker)?

>>48346086
Mass Awakenings feels a lot more like Silver Ladder though.

>>48337880
Hey. Probably the guy that >>48338285 is referring to, as I run a twice-montly Masquerade LARP. What kinds of questions do you have?

LARP is a much different animal than TT, mostly because in a LARP things are a lot more player-driven; the STs often have plot, but a lot of the game often tends to focus around vampire politics, the interactions of the court, and such things. My game, for example, we have what I term 'critical mass' of players (which is 20+, and we average 36-42 players each game), where the game kindof runs itself unless people are going to interact with specific plot threads that they've uncovered from news reports, Influence or downtimes.

As >>48338285 said, I would give the STs an email and ask them about the game itself. They can give you a rundown of how they run, what they do, etc.

I've been LARPing for 12 years now, and I have fun. If you have any specific questions, post 'em here and I'll respond.

>>48338700
By Night Studios' mechanics are built off of original Laws of <stuff>. It changes some things, but I've found it to be a LOT cleaner and easier to deal with (and it's less full of terrible editing and 'mother may I?' powers). And it's not hard to strip out the metaplot advancements of the timeline, though giving a quick google of Burlington by Night, it looks like that game (if it's the one in Burlington, ON) uses some of the By Night Metaplot (in particular, the Giovanni/Setite alliance), but it looks like it's an independent troupe unaffiliated with any of the larger organizations.

>>48338770
And yeah, OWbN still uses Laws of <stuff> with boatloads of house rules that change from game to game.

>>48338861
I really should read the entire fucking thread before I start responding. I've been running a current Masquerade one for the last 3 years; I've run two different Requiem ones and helped run a Changeling the Lost one as well.

For the Requiem and Lost ones, they were independent troupe and part of the Mind's Eye Society, we used the NWoD1e MET and tabletop books to supplement it. It is an okay system, but 1e MET NWoD ends up with issues of hypercompetency a lot with the way the mechanical system works (you make a tabletop dice pool, but you add a 1-10 randomizer; you always fail on a 1, and anything else adds to a total. You get 1 success at 10 and every extra 5 is another success, though tweaking that is recommended; one success at 8 total and every 4 after that is the ideal). You get hypercompetency when you get to a pool where you can't fail on anything but a 1, or if you have heinous penalties, which can easily happen.

The Masquerade LARP I run uses the By Night Studios book with our own metaplot. Our players have a lot of fun, and I have a lot of fun writing it... but I've built the game with a 'the players will get to interact with the larger WoD and affect the metaplot'. So far it's worked wonderfully for our game. Our players helped keep the Gangrel from leaving the Camarilla, worked on trying (and failing) to shutdown a Gargoyle uprising and getting freedom for the Gargoyles, the Assamite schism got played through by a couple of PCs, the events of the first third of Bloodlines got interacted with, some of our players worked to defend (and failed to affect the outcome of) Atlanta during the Sabbat seige, and during a convention recruitment game, our players got to determine how the Sabbat functions (which resulted in a horrific, unified Sabbat under Melinda Galbraith).
So it's worked out well, our people have fun.

Working on a character for A Sabbat game. We're getting extra bonus points at character generation. The story is going to be more political/social than combat oriented.

I'm thinking of making a Malkavian who is catatonic. She's basically stuck in a wheelchair and can't move at all (except for feeding and even then it's more of an instinctual response). She communicates through Telepathy and would also have 3 dots in Dominate.

I'm thinking she'll have a few ghouls that she uses for menial tasks, and when she gets bored and has her ghouls commit suicide, go on mass shootings and get killed by people, or even kill one another for her amusement. I figure she'll view her ghouls as entirely disposable and replace them frequently.

The character sounds kind of cool in my head, but does it seem like it would be too awkward at the actual table?

>>48346422
I'm >>48337880
I guess just the basics of how it feels compared to tabletop is what I want to know. When we did a VtM game there were deeper hooks into the characters' origins and a sense that we could do whatever we wanted - but it was still kind of a standard adventure at heart, with a handful of plot threads to uncover, a choice of whom to serve, a couple of "dungeons". It was kind of funny because we all felt, from the VtM rules, that there didn't seem to be much that would drive a coterie together -- but we did work together, and reasonably well overall. (Then, later, we tried WtA and even though the rules are all about working as a team we were a disorganized leaderless clusterfuck of angry fur).

What do characters really try to achieve at a VtM LARP? Part of me is imagining it like that meme picture I've seen around but haven't changed, where everyone is brooding, drinking in their own dark corner of the tavern, waiting to be discovered.

If you could do something like summarize what happened at a session, that'd probably be really helpful.

>>48346618
Talking only through Telepathy will end up awkward. Plus if she's that catatonic, how did she join the Sabbat? Why didn't someone just Scooby Snack the catatonic vampire and steal her power?

I'd come up with a different derangement.

>>48346651
A lot of that really depends on the storyteller, the plot of the game and any currently-ongoing storylines. Our game runs on a pretty even mix of socio-political stuff, investigation of mysteries, and there are plenty of times that type of stuff leads to combat and investigatey-type stuff.

Let's see. I'll just summarize the last session.
* New Prince cemented his praxis with the backing of almost all the Primogen Council, which prompted discussions of territory and how to best keep the hunters out of the city
* Players went chasing down the 'Niktuku' under the city (in reality a Pentex-created Mockery Breed cockroach shifter) and got their asses kicked.
* The heavy social-players met to divy up territory, trying to jockey for the best feeding grounds or places that give the best benefits to those people who control it (like the local university)
* A Malkavian found out that a Baali is in town, and killed a couple of local neonates.
* Anarchs on the run from Los Angeles and the Cam/Anarch war there came to town to get in with the Baron.
* Positions that had been abdicated or vacated were taken, such as Harpy and Keeper of Elysium and Sheriff.
* Characters in various small coteries made plans, traded favors for Influence use or traded favors to their Primogen in order to vote for (or against) certain territory assessments...
* A small group of vampires went to suss out the small Inquisition group that's set up in a cabin in a nature preserve in town, trying to learn about their defenses.
* The local Giovanni blew up some angry wraiths who were trying to abduct the local Daughter of Cacophony, as he found out they plan to plug her into a machine and make her sign to empower them with emotion.
We have a very active game though.

>>48346790
And a few sessions before...
* The old Prince left the city without a word (he had defected to the Sabbat in exchange for the city to be off their radar).
* The local Nosferatu took in some Nosferatu refugees from another doman.
* A few characters ended up trying to find a particular mystical artifact that they could trade to a local Setite for some rare books they need.
* There was a party where some of the Brujah and a local Gangrel had a throwdown in a steel reinforced box truck, and people could bet on it.
* The characters investigated a smallpox outbreak, trying to find the source of it.
* People continue to scream 'THE SABBAT ARE COMING'... when they ain't (though they don't know all the specifics yet).
* People made ties, traded favors, and generally made backstabby back-room plans to help, or fuck over, each other.

>>48346135
If it were possible, and not merely likely to horrifically traumatise all participants or create Banishers, they would be doing so constantly.

>>48346790
>>48346871
OK, so it seems to me like your sessions do have some of the standard RPG fare (the macguffin hunt, the inquisition recon, etc.). How does that work? Obviously there are a lot of NPCs involved, so do the players just sort of peel off with an ST to run it?

>>48346992
We have 5 different STs, and all the STs know what plots are going on (or, in the off scenario we're making shit up on the fly because people took a lead and went 'WELL THE LEAD POINTS LEFT OBVIOUSLY WE GO RIGHT AND DOWN THE STREET'), so there's a rough outline and an 'end point' for many of the plots, and so anyone can really grab the first ST they come across and go 'OH HAI WE ARE DOING THIS THING'. Most of the political and social stuff doesn't require an ST directly on-hand, and when it does, there's usually one that stays in the main room (she's also our Influence ST, since a lot of Influence gets used throughout).

And yeah, just whatever ST is running that plot (or is the ST you drag off to run it). We also play in a large hotel meeting space (we rent a sizable room, and it's in a conference center, so we have a large amount of open function space with little sitting areas, chairs, etc.), Otherwise, though, there's not a lot of NPCs involved unless people are out doing stuff with many of the established ones. The only major NPCs right now are those inquisition antagonists, the Baali, the Mockery cockroach, and then the 'standard' NPCs of the city like the 2-3 NPCs for each of the Cam7, the mayor and such things like that, or these visiting Anarchs and a few other things. The majority of things are all players; the Prince is a PC, the Seneschal is a PC, the KEeper and Primogen are all PCs...

>>48347114
How do you slot new players into your sessions? What roles do they typically fill?

>>48347145
It depends on the characters and what they made, but generally a lot of it boils down to 'why are you coming to the city, and who have you let know?' If they're playing Camarilla vampires (which is the largest majority), most of the time they'll have sent a notice to their Primogen (and so we sit them down with that player to go over it), and otherwise we give them some free reign to integrate themselves (for some people it helps to finalize exactly how they'll portray their character). Often this comes down to 'are we having court? You get a formal introduction tonight; if not we wait for court and you make some friends and we determine if you're an infiltrator or some such'.

We did one game where the new inbound players were actually on the run from a Sabbat pack, and so we introduced them as 'a mack truck jackknifed on the interstate' and people with the right influences and contacts got some info further than that.

Otherwise, I don't think it's a matter of 'roles to fill' like a party so much as 'what they want to play' and then their integration of that into the ongoing plots. We do have a few rules about things like 'loner-type characters' and such that we, the staff (who have been LARPing for years) will steer people away from, or give them ways/reasons to integrate with the others and the rest of the game (like the Caitiff who is hunting for a new 'surrogate sire' after her Assamite one got murdered).

A question about Demesnes. In the book it says spells cast in Demesnes don't invoke paradox unless the spell leaves the Demesne and is witnessed by sleepers.

I thought paradox was calculated only at a spells casting and sleepers witnessing the results of a magical effect would be a Dissonance roll?

>>48347283
It sounds like new characters always get introduced as out-of-towners? Do they never come up as neonate locals?

And speaking of cities, is your LARP set in the city in which you run it? How much does the real life of the place seep into the chronicle? Current events, real locations, real public personages, etc. That's one reason why I imagined it would be easier to assume new vamps are locals - since they probably know their way around anyways IRL.

>>48348065
It really depends. Many people like the concept of 'new to a city' but we've had some people just be characters who were 'in the background, not going to every court, etc.' But many people write particular backstories or reasons to come to town. We don't have a problem with people doing it either way, and a lot of times highly social characters, there's a lot of give-and-take, trading of minor boons, etc. for info on the 'safe areas' of the city and such. Otherwise, there's lots of fictionalized places; Kindred-owned or controlled businesses are a big thing, as well as just things that are needed/wanted that aren't really in town, like occult shops and such things. Otherwise we use a lot of local landmarks (we're about to run a haunted house plot for a few people who are buying up old, historic properties, and one of them is a major historic property in town).

Our last couple of games have been in our home city, so we use a lot of real locations but many fictional personas (the mayor is a fictional person, for example, in our current game). Another game that ran Requiem, that folded last year, actually had their game set in New Orleans even though that's not where we really are.

>>48348017
You can cast a spell from within a Demesne that has an Area bigger than the Demesne, and thus leaves the Demesne
They probably meant "Paradox and Dissonance" but just wrote "Paradox" because the book is already fucking huge and they needed to save space, so they assumed people could make the minor logical leap that requires

http://theonyxpath.com/a-bit-o-beckett-a-gram-of-gen-con-monday-meeting-notes/

New Monday Meeting notes up. Promethean 2e's over at White Wolf for approvals, Scion 2e's Kickstarter confirmed for end of August, Dark Eras Fiction Anthology is going to be sold at GenCon and free to backers, and Curse of the Blue Nile goes on sale this Wednesday.

>>48345815
Can you give me some examples? I'm new to the game and Prime is a lot less concrete to me than some of the other arcana.

>>48348435
With Platonic Form(3-dot spell), you can pull a knife, or any other object, out of your ass(for the cost of 1 mana)

Granted, if any mortals see the knife, dissonance applies, because it's basically a lightsaber.

>>48348174
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I read them out to my wife and she says thanks, too.

Not sure if we'll join the LARP but I feel a bit more knowledgeable about what to maybe expect.

>>48348458
Only at the end of the scene.

>>48348490
Sure. I'm about to head out but I'm in the threads fairly regularly while doing other stuff. If you have other questions, feel free. And honestly, I'd say go to at least one session. Email the STs and stuff beforehand, ask them about the game. You won't know until you try it.

I never even thought about LARPing until a guy I was working with (now my best friend) brough the red Requiem and blue NWoD books to work when they came out, and mentioned the old Masquerade LARP from here in town. And I went, had a really interesting time... and it's been a fun thing that got me out, got me socializing and generally in a good place.

>>48348458
Did we ever get clarification as to weather the item consumes mana every use by default or only if enhanced?

>>48348656
I think Dave said it's specifically only if enhanced

>>48348925
That was my interpretation and honestly the only sane one. It would make zero sense for Prime of all things to be that mana inefficient.

>>48348345
>Scion, more Scion, Promethean, and Mummy

This is the best Monday Meeting Notes ever!

>>48349359
Hopefully they'll have the full text up on the Kickstarter

>>48348186
Ahh that makes sense. Thank you. Typically I only use Demesnes to buff myself. Never occurred to me to use a Demesne like a tactical arcane bomb.

Just finished binging Stranger Things, can't wait to rip it all off for a Hunter game.

>>48349990
I saw this coming

It'd work much better with Innocents, though, considering
I'm considering referencing it in my Mage game, though

>>48350404
On that subject, how much of Innocents should function for 2E? I might end up creating a Demon-Blooded academy in my next game and I wanna know if I should read up on Innocents.

>>48350755
Innocents should be mostly fine

>>48339794
Do you want the honest reason?

I've been talking to a local live WoD group- they're hosting a Changeling: The Lost game on Saturday. I've never actually played any of the WoD games before, and skimming over the base player's guide I'm having trouble figuring it out on my own. So far, all I've got is a bit of a character concept- an incredibly quick wanderer with wind and feather motifs, possibly aligned with either the Spring or Autumn courts. Any advice for both a new player and for making this build a bit more solid?

>>48350404
I agree, but only to a point. When it comes to the adults, and especially the highschoolers, I'd think of it more like tier 1 hunter. Getting a posse together to kill this weird thing that seems to be fucking our shit.

>>48352686
That depends on version of the rules they are using. There is like base 1e rules, and some glimpses of 2e rules which are completely different, so its totaly possible to have wild 1e+2e mix in live games now.

>>48353808
I'm told it's all NWoD

>>48328778
Stop using the mm1 version and use monster vault, fuck.

>>48350755
>>48351713
>>48353635
Innocents didn't have great mechanics to begin with, so whatever Condition or Tilt based homebrew you come up with will likely be better.

Just what was going through their heads when they were designing VtM disciplines? The attribute + skill combinations are seemingly random and all over the place, the powers themselves are riddled with weaknesses that the designers clearly thought would make it "more balanced", even though a 5 dot power shouldn't fucking having any crippling downsides to it, and some powers are so shitty that they have no business being as highly rated as they are.

>>48354964
With VtM more than anything else it feels like they backed themselves into a corner with the "five ranked dots" way of doing things, and couldn't figure out how to arrange them. VtR still suffers a little bit from that, but by 2e they made every power pretty useful and building upon the rest, and in most of the other 2e games they've gone away from dot levels at all, or at least only having five powers ranked.

So. Promethean is finally at WW for approval. Time to see how that trainwreck turns out.

>>48322435
Update to this
The Hunters were fucking TMNT, using warded sewers, tunnels and drainage to move between multiple protected lairs, using some seriously tricky shit to fool us. We've had to resort to diplomacy, since they were convinced we were aiding in the same government conspiracy we came together to stop. If we can get them on-side, the attacks stop and they can put their sewer gremlin terrorist abilities towards something useful.

Semi newbie here...what exactly is Beckett's Jyhad Diary?

>>48355355
What makes you think it'll be a trainwreck?

>>48355544
Because of Beast, Demon, Mummy, and Geist.

>>48355620
>Beast
Fair enough
>Demon, Mummy
u wot m8
>Geist
You do realize that was years ago, before Onyx Path even existed, right?

>>48355544
What worries me is that the main writer said that the Zeka, Centimani and mortal alchemists will not be playable.

>>48355620
>Demon
>Demon the Descent
You mean THE best new game that they made?

>>48355525
>Beckett
He is apparently some know-it-all about oWoD Vampires
>Still doesn't believe in Antideluvians

>>48355704
>>48355942
It's clear >>48355620 has either shit taste or a desire to troll.

>>48353816
The Lost is NWOD, OWOD fey game called The Dreaming. NWOD itself has different set of rules, it started in 2004 as a bit newer version of older system and get completely remade few years back. Changeling still dont have full 2e rulls, just scraps from dev site.

>>48355936
I dunno if he said anything about the Zeka, but I know he said something along the lines of 'they aren't provided with rules for the players to create them as characters, but that doesn't mean you can't figure it out yourself.'

>>48356092
And while we at it... anybody here manage to just read dreaming core book to an end?

>>48356127

I did! It's certainly a book.

>>48355981

That or they expect the game to be like those games: high powered and more difficult to run than the other lines, and does not like that sort of thing. Notice that Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage 2e are specifically absent from that list.

>>48355620
>>48355704
That reminds me, is there anywhere list of NWoD books together with their developers?
I would like to find if there is any correlation between shit books and people who developed them and I'm too lazy to look up and write down developers one by one.

>>48356217
>they expect the game to be like those games: high powered
>>48356217
>Mage 2e [is] specifically absent from that list

Have any of you ever taken part in games where Occult skill wasn't just a dump stat? And if yes, what was done with it?

>>48356366
Not sure if there's a list, but I know
>DaveB: Demon, Mage, Deviant
>StewW: Werewolf
>MattM: Beast, Promethean
>RoseB: Vampire
>DavidH: Changeling

>>48356519
I've been letting the Obrimos in my game roll it to have vague ideas about what the group is dealing with
It's also kind of a big deal in Mage, anyways, since it's the skill you use to know about magical shit, and Mage is all about knowing about magical shit.

The ST in my VtM game has also let us attempt it a couple of times, when magical stuff with a non-obvious source happened(EG, a ring of fire appearing around us while we were fighting a dude, or us finding a house full of living furniture fleshcrafted to not look like people/animals/whatever

>>48356500

Difficult to run is also a criteria. Mage 2e's got a lot of power and the improvised magic system is harder to learn than 1e's but it's way to figure out what kind of game you can run when you're finished with its core.

>>48356366

Vampire the Requiem: Rose Bailey and Danielle Lauzon

Werewolf the Forsaken: Stew Wilson

Mage the Awakening: Dave Brookshaw

Promethean the Created: Matt McFarland

Changeling the Lost: David Hill

Hunter the Vigil: Monica Valentinelli

Geist the Sin-Eaters: ????? (Maybe we'll know at GenCon this year?)

Mummy the Curse: C.A. Sulmean

Demon the Descent: Rose Bailey and Matt McFarland

Beast the Primordial: Matt McFarland

Deviant the ???: Dave Brookshaw

>>48356569

Oh, and David Hill is also the current developer of Chronicles of Darkness (Blue Book/Mortal). Rose Bailey serves as overall line director for CofD.

>>48356521
>>48356521

Demon the Descent cover page lists:
>Dave Brookshaw, N. Conte, Susann Hessen, David A Hill Jr, Alec Humphrey,
>Danielle Lauzon, Michelle Lyons-McFarland, Matthew McFarland, Mark Stone,
>Travis Stout, Stew Wilson, Eric Zawadzki

Most of these are probably the between chapter fluff stories

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>>48356647
senpai...

>>48356702

Now I feel dumb...

I grabbed the list off of the second page.

>>48356702

So Rose Bailey is the good developer from Demon?
Because I have to hate SOMEBODY for how shitty Beast turned out.

>>48356752

It seems to be their baby in equal measure. McFarland even finished up developing the Demon Storyteller's Guide when Rose had to duck out on it.

>>48356752
Feel free to hate Matt "Playtester input means nothing" McFarland for that.

>>48343382
> Smoother
Hahahahahahaha

I get the feeling Promethean is going to run into issues. Matt seems like he needs someone to reel him in if he decides to go too far off the deep end, like with Demon. Otherwise he runs amok and we get another Beast.

Although, the point could be made that Promethean doesn't need to be made from scratch, so maybe it won't be shit. Just have to wait and see.

>>48356521
No, I'm not Demon's Line Developer.>>48356569
is accurate.

>>48356632

Individual books may have different Developers - sometimes a Line Dev is too busy, and in the case of the core "blue" books, it's really just whoever pitched the thing most of the time. David is Developing Hurt Locker, but Matt did Dark Eras.

>>48356647

In normal sourcebooks, a chapter's opening fic is normally written by whoever wrote that chapter. In 2e corebooks, where it's one big story slit into several parts, they're written as one long thing and then chopped up.

I wrote Demon's Intro fiction, but not the smaller fics at the start of chapters.

>>48357519

Dave, 2 quick questions:

1 - Are you against us offering input on how to "hack" MtAw 2e to make it more perfect, before the Printed copy / pdf update releases.
Why do I ask? The thread trying to gather such input on OPP forums got deleted.

2 - How do I throw money at you / OPP in such a way that it incentivizes you to devote more time to supporting Mage? (I already bought 2e Mage and Left-Hand Path)


Your previews and fluff changes to Mage got me really excited, in that 'New Favorite Band' kind of way. Sadly I haven't found a decent outlet for this energy, since my Ex gaming group refused to play it...

>>48355936
Oh no, how terrible. Truly this ruins the game.

>>48356217
>>48356569
Promethean has always been allegedly the most difficult game to run. Something tells me the guy thinking it'll be terrible is basing that entirely on the fact that Beast was spearheaded by Matt, who's also doing Promethean. But also did Demon, and the original Promethean.

>>48356752
>So Rose Bailey is the good developer from Demon?
I don't want to point fingers, and Beast's final product is nowhere near as people make out, but at least when it comes to the mechanics and powers, you can definitely see Matt's fingerprints on Demon.

>>48357141
>Implying it's not
I'm sorry if you're too dumb to understand Conditions, a thing that every other RPG has been using for decades now.

>>48357460
Matt was one of the original Promethean 1e writers.
And most of the hate he's gotten for Promethean--beyond saying that he's not going to put rules in for the antagonist splats--is that he said you have to play Pinocchio. Because people think they should be listened to when they tell the developer to completely ditch the themes of the original game.

Although I think there was also some hate about the fact that you're not an abomination so much as you're in Flux and burn so hot you harm the world around you.

>>48357689
> Conditions
I too enjoy have uneccesary numbers contests in my games about Supernatural Chicanery.
Or you could just apply dice penaltys/Bonuses like OWoD already did.
Face it, CofD was manifest Twofold:
1. To resell the same product you've already bought once before, and cut the Clutter of OWoD
2. To jerk off all the Powergamer/Rules Lawyers out there that complained their ST was being unfair to them because "that's totally kind of how the book says my shit works!"

>>48357740
Having*
Wew lad

>>48357631

Could you be any more
>Notice me Dave-senpai
?

>>48357689
Yes, it is terrible. I can live without playable alchemists, but the Centimani are very important. They are great antagonists, and can double as the edgy rebellious phase in a Pilgrimage. Zekas can hopefully get expanded on in some supplement like in 1st ed if they aren't in the core book.

>>48358132
Your acting like there will be no rule for making Centimani. No the dev has clearly said that there will not be rules for playing them.
He then said that it would be simple enough to make exp cost for the centimani abilities.

>>48358132

That "edgy rebellious phase" is the Refinement of Tin, where you stall in your Pilgrimage and succumb to frustration. Centimani haven't fucked up their Pilgrimage, they've abandoned it entirely.

Chances are their Refinements are just going to be Dread Powers now.

>>48358132
Centimani are not that important, and no one said they wouldn't be in the game, just that you can't play one. Zeka were honestly a stupid idea to begin with. Stannum is the rebellious phase, by the way. Centimani is the Columbine phase.

>>48357740
>I too enjoy have uneccesary numbers contests in my games about Supernatural Chicanery.
You mean mechanics? Like in a roleplaying game?
>Or you could just apply dice penaltys/Bonuses like OWoD already did.
You mean literally what a Condition is, only without being codified in a simple to use way? Again, a list of status effects that are cohesive and reused is not something new in RPGs. Most other RPGs use them, to the point that with Conditions in the GMC it is honestly sort of weird that WoD never had them in the first place. Even Shadowrun has Conditions, and oWoD was a rip off of Shadowrun. Then again, there really is a lot of normal RPG stuff that WoD doesn't have or didn't have until CofD.

>1. To resell the same product you've already bought once before, and cut the Clutter of OWoD
There are something like five editions of the original World of Darkness alone. I can't tell whether you mean the original nWoD or the 2e lines, but either way, I have zero problem with a new edition of a game.
>2. To jerk off all the Powergamer/Rules Lawyers out there that complained their ST was being unfair to them because "that's totally kind of how the book says my shit works!"
This doesn't even make sense. Not only is that less likely to happen with each edition change, 2e, Conditions and all, is much less rules lawyery and the book repeatedly talks about how you shouldn't use the game exactly as written as if you were a robot. Shit, even Beast, the game everyone hates without having actually read, tells you to refluff things.

Or do you really think the book expects that you'll be able to use this or that "shrug off a Tilt" power to just Iron Heart Surge the darkness away and be able to see perfectly? As opposed to, you know, having common sense.

Actually, I'm going to drop the attitude. What do you dislike about CofD and the Condition system? Maybe I can help you understand what it's about and for.

>>48358191
I can see where they're coming from and I understand the reasoning behind this choice, but I still think it's a shame.
>>48358230
"Occasionally, Prometheans seek out the secrets of the Centimani without abandoning their Pilgrimage. These seekers acknowledge that this is a temporary side-path, but one that will grant them greater insight into the human condition. Such wise ones teach that embracing the monstrousness within isn’t a denial of humanity, but rather a sharpening of it. There are many strange creatures in the world, but only humans truly have the potential to be monsters."
#NotAllCentimani

>>48358364
Well at least you not one of those idiot who want to turn the game into a transhuman game.

>>48358364

For me, I'm alright with the change. Promethean has the tightest focus on any CofD line and always has - it feels more like an indie art game than anything else - and so cutting aside the fat that gets in the way of "you are something not human on the road to becoming human" is noble in my eyes.

Now if you want petty complaints? I don't like the Unfleshed just because I'm not a fan of them. They fit really well as a weird little thing tucked away in a supplement, but making them core feels odd to me; it's a game about alchemy and then there's these nanomachine robots running around. Maybe I'll moan less if more Lineages (like the Hollow in Dark Eras and hopefully the Wickermen in the Dark Eras Companion) are made canon and throw elemental thing out of whack.

>>48358499
Technically speaking it already is. Especially in 2e where the Athanors are supposed to actually DO something. You just... first have to become human to be transhuman.

>>48358576
To be fair, "A robot that comes to life" is a pretty fitting story for Promethean. Though I don't like their Humour and element and all. Also, what's this Hollow?

>>48358594
>Also, what's this Hollow?
The Hollow are a new Lineage introduced in Dark Eras
Basically people that died of starvation during the Great Depression

>>48358594

I think they were called the Hollow? They're in the Dust Bowl era, born from people who died from starvation and thirst.

>>48346086
Giving Sleepers Mage Sight is a surefire way to cause Paradox and Dissonance. Doing it is not only unwise, it's institutionally forbidden among Guardians. That Obrimos cult leader can look forward to waking up with a bag over their head.

>>48358650

How on earth would that cause Paradox?

>>48358343
You made me laugh uncomfortably.
+1

>>48358696
Gah, you're right. I forgot about the Apocalypse spell and thought you meant the Knowing Practice.

>>48358576
I actually like Unfleshed, but not as high tech super robots. More in the flavor of...ancient Greek clockbots, gears ticking and turning inside a human shell.

>>48356521
>>48356569
Oh thanks. I had in mind also 1e stuff, although I don't know how many of those writers still develop stuff.
But it seems that Matt is shouldn't be let develop things alone. Now I worry about Promethean.
>>48356632
Did David Hill develop something that is already published?

>>48358343
Zekas were best. Although I guess Unfleshed may be cool too.

>>48356569
I wish CAS actually talked to the fanbase at all.

>>48357631
1 - I have no control over the OPP forums; I'm not a Mod, can't ban people or delete threads. Hell, I've even had warnings! Contrary to the OPP Dev stereotype, I can't get people banned at rpg.net either, no matter how much I ask Matt, Rose, and Holden.

Oh, Anon. If I were a mod... It would be a short-lived reign of terror.

2 - I already do more for Awakening than I am paid for, and cannot accept money for White Wolf stuff except as pay for books. Some authors have Patreons, which is their prerogative. I don't - I have a full-time day job.

Guys what the fuck is this "Deviant" thing

>>48359041
The next 2e game that isn't just an update from 1e.
Dave's developing it
It's based on shit like Hulk, Guyver, and Akira, as well as Sense8, Orphan Black, etc
That's about all we know

>>48359041

Next CofD game, which is in pre-writing.

>>48359068
>>48359080
Sounds like it's gonna be Beast 2.0 famalam

>>48359035
>Some authors have Patreons, which is their prerogative. I don't

Oh well. I guess I'll just greedily await the next Book.

>>48359035
By the way, you didn't touch on the part of the first question that asks if you want detailed input on Mage 2e.

>>48358359

oWoD's only a ripoff of Shadowrun in that the original designer of Shadowrun also worked on Storyteller's design. The change from d6 to d10 was to create a wider possible range of results.

>>48358991

I have no idea what his job is outside of doing WW/OPP stuff. I assume it's videogames, like a lot of tabletop writers.

>>48358975

Gimme a bit and I'll make a 1e/2e timeline of overall devs.

>>48359175
Yes, but the dicepool system in the first place was Shadowrun.

>>48359175
>The change from d6 to d10 was to create a wider possible range of results.

>d20 confirmed as the superior roleplaying system compared to WoD

>>48359104
>input

There was a massive errata thread that's already come and gone, and that's before 2hu shit up these very threads for weeks about how much he hated Mage 2e.

>>48359240
>how much he hated Mage 2e

I want to provide input on easy ways to improve Mage 2e

Bitching about how terrible it is, isn't enough to make sure that it gets better.

case in point
>Beast

>>48359240
No, no. He loves the games, that's why he completely misunderstands the way that they work and wants them to conform perfectly to his autistic ideals.

>>48359285

I mean, no one can stop you from posting what you think, but it's not gonna make it into the book. The errata's already been collected; that thread was up for like a month.

>>48359240
Nobody was able to prove him wrong about anything he said. All you did was shout "WHITE ROOM WHITE ROOM" and "that's not how it is" over and over.

Unlike you, touhoufag contributed something useful to these threads.

>>48359285
Mage 2e is already out, though.
And Beast did listen to fan input. It honestly didn't make the game that much better, and people still hate it and ignore that they were listened to in the first place.

>>48359240
>There was a massive errata thread that's already come and gone
>and gone
>why?

Also how will I know if the issue has been brought up before?
I keep noticing typos / mistakes in old nWoD books that I read, and want to make sure that Mage 2e doesn't miss any.

>>48359390

Yeah, I really liked the part where he screamed about how it was disgraceful that Dave would release a fundamentally broken game. That was super mature and very useful feedback.

I'm also a big fan of every other post being him for every single thread that entire month.

Super worthy contributions there.

>>48359413

The book released as an advance PDF, they said "hey, give us all your feedback," they collected it and have now moved on to working all that in. They have to call a stop to it so they can eventually, y'know, release the book.

That's how OPP has done errata for every single book now.

>>48359369
>The errata's already been collected

That's why I wanted an answer from DaveB
If he says that my input will be for sure 100% ignored, I won't bother. But if they haven't finalized the layout, it's not too late, right?

>>48359413

On average, every typo flagged in the errata got flagged six times by different people. When we say "please check no one has already mentioned this" on the errata threads, we really do make it, and all the "I didn't read the thread but..." has delayed the final version by a few weeks.

It's too late, Anon. Chances are very high it's already been picked up.

>>48359471

But do you still wan't feedback, even if it won't make it in to the Mage 2e Core? Or are you just too pressed for time, that reading our input is not feasible?

<3 you senpai

>>48359440
>All criticism is invalid as soon as my precious developer is insulted
Fuck off.

>>48359527

I'm not saying his math wasn't valid (except for the times when it was disproved and then ignored), but there's a difference between helpful feedback and insult-strewn walls of text about how the game is a screaming trainwreck and everyone is wrong for liking it.

>>48359098
I think given that Dave Brookshaw is developing it, it'll be probably ok.

>>48359219
Thanks, but don't bother yourself with that, I was thinking that maybe such list already exists, I don't need it that much.

>>48359471
The problem is that forum is wrong format for making errata, one would need some database where one could search for errors/typos by page number to make it useful, not forcing everyone to read whole thread.

>>48359513

It's not that I don't care, it's just not not particularly useful at this point. Mage 2e is done. Its supplements will build off it, same as any other rpg, but any changes to the core past the final version will, barring exceptional circumstances like Geist's re-Editing never get done. If there's a big rules blackhole like the way 1e treated soul loss *and* a book that has a direct mandate to deal with it, you might get things like the 1e Tremere being errata'd in Left Hand Path.

Might.

But any structural changes to Mage, now? Give it another decade, and when my successor does Open Dev for 3rd edition, talk to them.

>>48359625
>but there's a difference between helpful feedback and insult-strewn walls of text about how the game is a screaming trainwreck and everyone is wrong for liking it.
You're experiencing delusions because of your hurt feelings. Show some proof.

>>48359625
>>48359527

See I am willing to be the feedback filter that tries to mediate between what people want, and useful feedback that the designer can easily integrate into the game.

>>48359684
There are things that you re-interpreted from 1e, that were not directly changed, you could find the seed of that idea right there, but they were under/overemphasized, and putting them in a different light made all of the difference.

I honestly didn't "get" Mage 1e, and the changes you made to Mage in 2e brought the game alive for me, I wan't to contribute to that.

>>48359748

For example Guardians of the Veil and Mysterium got a lot more interesting once their respective splats came out.

>>48359748

Are you ever going to post your feedback or just endlessly talk about it?

>>48359873

The reason that I need an answer is because I haven't even begun to write it out.

And I know that that process will involve integrating other's ideas, for example going back to archived threads and trying to understand what 2hu was trying to say.

I can't get a group to play Mage, so I wan't to find SOMETHING to DO with my excitement for the system.

Are there Anons here that would wan't to help me?

>>48359940

I'll take that as a no.

This is why I like anonymous posting, I can shamelessly be the idealistic, easily excited self for a while.

New question:
Has there been a time when people in these threads were less apathetic?

>>48360142

You're basically just shouting WHO WANTS TO HEAR MY IDEAS into a void without letting us have any indication of whether or not they'll be shit, and this general has already had more than enough mechanical bitching about Mage 2e.

>>48360172

I want to know if there are people who want to discuss ideas of how to change Mage to make it better.

There are various things that I can be doing with my time. If nobody else is interested in talking about it, then I will do something else.

DaveB basically let me down gently as far as contributing to Mage in any official sort of way.

If nobody is excited about tweaking the fluff / crunch by the end of this thread, I will go back to lurker mode.

No hard feelings. I am NOT expecting everyone to be interested in the same things, but without asking it is hard to find out if there are other people like you out there.

>>48322082
Does anyone have the link that has all the character artwork? It's several folders of different characters and clans.

>>48360307

Post it or don't, anon.Nobody cares.

>>48360497
Check the pastebin. There are a couple links for curated character art. The minus we used to have is gone, though.

>>48360307
If you're really just looking for some way of sharing your enthusiasm with the new Mage, here's something to do. Sell me on it. I've been working on reading through it, just to get an idea what the big shitfest with 2hu was about, but I honestly can't make heads or tails over what a Mage character is supposed to be or do.

>>48359658

Well, all right. The White Wolf wiki has a lot of the info you needed anyways on developers and who wrote on what book. I wish there was a bit more work on it though, it stops being comprehensive after things that came out around 2010 or so. Same for Wikipedia, actually. Mummy, Demon, and Beast haven't had any Wikipedia articles whatsoever.

>>48359527
>Pretending the criticism was valid
Most of it was "the game needs to hold my hand because I think common sense has no place in game design".

>>48359513
Don't make this weird. Your input doesn't matter. It's probably already been addressed.

>>48359700
Why don't you? Were you even there in the threads? Touhou can barely give advice withing being condescending. I don't think I've ever seen him write a post that doesn't come off as if he's a pretty princess looking down his nose at the unwashed masses--not because they're unwashed, but because they can't be as beautiful and pretty and smart as he is.

>>48360172
>>48360142
We really do need some kind of a newbie's guide. Maybe a bunch of suggested houserules and hacks. Other generals have that kind of info. We're all sort of lazy...

>>48360574
>I honestly can't make heads or tails over what a Mage character is supposed to be or do.

I think the part that made me get Mage 2e is the idea that Mages feed on mystery. You know that happy feeling that you get when you learn something important, and all of a sudden the world makes so much more sense.
This is what Mages feed on, this is like blood to vampires.

Understanding the world better gives you 'superpowers'

The second part of the game hits on that moment in a superhero movie when the hero just gained his powers, and is blown away by all of the cool stuff that they can now do. The world has just become their sandbox to play in.

Now there is a whole heap of other stuff that you have to deal with as a newly minted Mage, but those two things are remain there.
>The world is full of strange and awesome and frightening things for you to figure out
>You have become a Demi-god, so what are you going to do with all of that power?

>>48360633
>We really do need some kind of a newbie's guide. Maybe a bunch of suggested houserules and hacks. Other generals have that kind of info. We're all sort of lazy...

No promices, but I'll try to write my version, then integrate all of the bitching that I get about how I am stupid and wrong, and don't know crap about shit.

>>48360633
>Why don't you?
I can't prove that he didn't insult the developers, retard. I'd need to make a screenshot of every one of his posts. His condescension is something you literally made up in your head to disregard his analysis of the mechanics. You've still shown no proof of this "condescension" or "insults to the developers".

>Most of it was "the game needs to hold my hand because I think common sense has no place in game design".
>The rulebook clearly meant X even though it's saying Y
>WHITE ROOM WHITE ROOM
Alright, senpai. Keep up your contribution to these threads.

>>48360693
>The world has just become their sandbox to play in.
See, that just sounds like it's gonna be filled with stupid wankery, much like the threads they inspired. Also, I can't get into the magic system.

>>48360749
3rd party, but touhou was an ass, and no thread deserves to be 60% one avatarfag.

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>>48360693

The next part of understanding the ideas behind Mage is the transformation that made you Awaken.
You went through one hell of an ordeal.
In one way or another you rejected the world, raged against it.
>Why does it always have to be like this
This time you didn't stop, you went off the rails.
And somewhere in the process of going stark raving mad, you wrote your name down
>just to make sure that you still could remember who the hell you were
And then it happened. It felt like being let out of a sensory deprivation chamber. You could see the world so much more clearly now, your brain made connections between things that seemed so plainly clear you couldn't believe you didn't see it before.
>like the FedEx arrow, once you see it, you can't unsee it

>>48360857
>that just sounds like it's gonna be filled with stupid wankery
Don't think of it in terms of Power, but in terms of Options.
Not Demi-God because nothing can stop you, there is always a bigger fish.
But the number of ways that you can act, things you can do, has just exploded.
Like getting a smartphone, so many useful things that it can do. How did you used to live without it?

For me the difference is that most roleplaying games ignore the repercussions of how the world would be changed by the existence of the type of magic that they describe, Mage welcomes you to explore it.
>this part requires a competent storyteller

>>48361036

The main thing that you understand much more clearly now is that thorny question
>Why is the world so SHIT?
>How can it be so beautiful and so hideous at the same time?
>Why do decent people suffer, and evil men (and women) can get away with ruining people's lives.

The answer? Because the world is a war zone, and the good guys aren't winning.
You didn't have to have anyone tell you about the Exarchs, sure you didn't know the title 'Exarch', but you could see their influence, their dirty fingerprint on all of the people around you.

They are the true power-wankers and they cared so little about what being shuch major asholes would do that they decided to shit up the whole world.

>>48360857
>Also, I can't get into the magic system.

Your first act of magic, your awakening, was imagining how much better the world could be.
And then you realized that you could make that real.

The spellcasting starts with imagining something being different, then seeing what is preventing it from being like that, then kicking that pebble out of the way, and watching the avalanche as the world rearranges itself.

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>>48360731
I actually did write something like that a while back. It's a simple quickstart sort of thing for WoD, written when only God-Machine was out. It's not exactly a "here's some protips" thing.

>>48360749
Anon, shut the fuck up.
Touhou is insufferable, and it's not "white room" that was the problem (well, the main problem). It's the fact that he treated RAW as an unassailable fortress that must be adhered to, and if a game assumes any amount of intellect on the part of the group, it's a bad game. He argued for asinine interpretations of the rules, like a Time spell allowing you to ignore darkness or difficult terrain or handcuffs.
It's not that the game meant one thing and said another. It's that the book didn't spend eighteen pages listing out all possible outcomes.

I honestly do not want a book to treat me like a fucking idiot. Touhou does. It's his belief that a game should spell out every possibility.

>>48360857
How is that stupid wankery? I mean, you're a wizard. You have an inborn drive to investigate things. It's now one of the more focused WoD games there is.

>>48361354

This is why solving mysteries makes you a better spellcaster, because it isn't about going
>UUURRRRGGHHHH!
until your ears bleed. But knowing how to chop a tree in such a way that it falls into any direction that you want. To the point that you could drive a stake into the ground with the trunk.

This also explains why the Duel Arcane is a thing, and why it is used to settle disagreements between Mages - because there is a direct correlation between being able to use your magic in a clever way, and seeing clearly, understanding things as they are, and not being deluded by the lies of the fallen world.

>>48359392
It isn't the backer PDF to help with errata and corrections is out, but the actual game has yet to be fully released, and it won't until Dave is finished with errata.

>>48359390
Except people did point out how he was wrong on numerous occasions, but everyone ignores that because it doesn't add fuel to the fire

>>48360857
>that just sounds like it's gonna be filled with stupid wankery

You want Beast for that. It lets you do whatever the fuck you want with your cool new powers.

Mage forces you to make tough moral decisions, and live with the repercussions of how you are changing the world.

>>48361378

This is great. Do you have the Mage one, or was Hunter the only one that you made?

>>48361437
>>48361354
>>48361257
>>48361128
>>48361036
>>48360693

Should I continue?
>y/n

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>>48361450
Yes, but there isn't going to be any more errata and editing suggestions collected. There's no chance to say anything at this point.

>>48361490
That's not exactly true. On either account. Beast doesn't let you go willy nilly with your powers any less than anything else, aside from the lack of social structures (and I suppose morality, not that that stops players anyway).
Mage likewise doesn't FORCE anything about living with your decisions and You Must Play Like This. But it does have an intended focus, and there are carrots to encourage you to play in that manner.

>>48361533
All I did was make a Hunter one. Although I could probably give a general Mage thing. Oh, I do have Werewolf.

>>48361564
>aside from the lack of social structures (and I suppose morality, not that that stops players anyway).
>Mage likewise doesn't FORCE anything about living with your decisions and You Must Play Like This. But it does have an intended focus, and there are carrots to encourage you to play in that manner.

This is exactly what I was talking about. No moral restraints, or obvious systems written into the game to encourage you not to be That Guy.

>>48361607
But Mage barely has those. Mage can be a very difficult game to "get" simply because there really IS a large amount of "what do I DO?" to it. In fact, I'd say that Mage, Hunter, Geist, and Beast fit into that same category of needing an ST with a good idea or at the very least very driven characters who are willing to poke their noses into things. As opposed to games like Vampire or Changeling, which have really strong social structures (that will often drag you into them even if you're unaffiliated) and Mummy or Promethean (which is going to be you following the game's lead). Werewolf is similar to the first group in that you're going to be doing a lot of picking your nose if you can't think of anything, but like Mummy and Promethean, 2e gives strong incentive to go do things (due to the Sacred Hunt being both a good way to gain energy points and also something that you're required to do).

Mage 2e fixes that up a bit by giving Arcane Beats to motivate players, and the Obsessions, but there's not really much in the way of a guideline or a typical chronicle structure, other than the normal CofD structure. Now, don't get me wrong, Mage is great, and I like it, and I think that arguments that it's just power fantasy or power wanking are stupid and kind of miss the point (of the WoD as a whole), but it really IS a game that requires more drive from the troupe.

In fact, in terms of "Focus", I'd rate it only a little above Hunter, and that's only due to the presence of Arcane Beats and Obsessions. (Geist and Beast fight for least focused gameline)

>>48361776

I can't speak for everyone, but to me it it seems like it is easy to have a focused, but hands off campaign of Mage.

The basic structure of a Mage game is:
>You notice something weird happen
This is the one 'gift' that Mages can't trade in. They inherently see things now that they were previously ignorant of.

Ideally you would have a number of events and plots developing and unfolding around your players.
For each of them, the most important starting point is to write out what happens when the Mages ignore it, or just don't get involved.

Don't be afraid to skip forward in time, if there is no answer when you ask
>Do you need me to resolve any actions that you would be taking before Tuesday at 3pm?
Then you describe what they witness on Tuesday.

Choosing to do nothing is a choice that has repercussions. Eventually those might develop into something that might bite the characters in the ass. The prerogative to be proactive is on the players. When and how they choose to get stuck in defines what is important to them.

>>48361378
I was talking about the 'the world is your sandbox'. It sounds pretentious as fuck. Though, since you bring up the subject, investigation. That doesn't strike me as much of a focus.

>>48361354
Mechanically, I mean. I don't like the free form aspect of it. I guess I like set ability lists because I can then take them and try to figure out new uses for them. Make them do something it's not supposed to, but does anyway with the right circumstances. With this whole pseudo free form thing, that isn't there. It's just have more dots, or Reach for more whatever. The Arcana are too broad.

>>48362650
>I was talking about the 'the world is your sandbox'. It sounds pretentious as fuck. Though, since you bring up the subject, investigation. That doesn't strike me as much of a focus.
It's not as focused as other games, no. Though in general all of the WoD games are pretty sandboxy.

>>48362650
>I guess I like set ability lists because I can then take them and try to figure out new uses for them.
>The Arcana are too broad.
Then look at it in a more simplistic way, going purely off the Practices and the respective Arcanum
Just look at the Practices for any given dot level, and the Purview of the arcanum, if you need to. It's pretty easy to figure out some neat shit you can do, based on that.


I personally feel like this is a better way of going about things than the big lists of example spells, considering a bunch of the ones we got don't even make sense. How does Fraying Prime let you call winds from the Aether to smack someone? Fuck if I know; it should probably be a Weaving spell, if anything, but for some reason all the damaging spells got forced into specific Practices

So who else here is excited for Scion 2e? The forums seem unenthused other than a handful of diehards and Reddit is completely stone dead.

>>48361450
>Except people did point out how he was wrong on numerous occasions, but everyone ignores that because it doesn't add fuel to the fire

Every single time, it was "but you shouldn't pay attention to the RAW!"

God damn it guys, if the RAW makes a rule stupid, then the RAW should change. Are you this retarded?

>>48361378
>It's the fact that he treated RAW as an unassailable fortress that must be adhered to, and if a game assumes any amount of intellect on the part of the group, it's a bad game. He argued for asinine interpretations of the rules, like a Time spell allowing you to ignore darkness or difficult terrain or handcuffs.

Bitch, that's how Veil of Moments works RAW.

If the RAW is broken, the RAW needs to fucking change.

>>48363503
So what's the main purpose of Scion?
I get that you're all demigods, or people bestowed power by the Gods, but what's your purpose?
Propagate your cult? Avenge your fall? Fight in a war against the Internet and Tinder a la Gaiman's "American Gods"?

Like, I could be hype. I love me some ancient religions.
But nobody really gave a shit about 1e, so I never read it.

>>48363602
No it wasn't.
In fact, none of it was "you shouldn't pay attention to the RAW". It was "you should not need spelled out for you every possible interaction. There are many things that you as a person playing the game will need to make judgement calls on, this does not mean that the system is flawed or broken".
Things like the Time spell that keeps you from being subject to new Tilts or Conditions keeping you from being Blind when you walk into the dark, because "well it says ALL TILTS AND CONDITIONS", ignoring all logic, ignoring all of what any ST would allow. Just treating it as if the words as written are not only the end-all, be-all, but utterly sacrosanct. That's not how the game is intended to be played, there are even several places in the game where the text tells you not to stick too closely to the rules.

More than that, plenty of people pointed out actual flaws in his logic. He'd often double down. When he was talking about using a Condition with Rotes, people pointed out that Rotes aren't Skill rolls, the skill is equipment bonus. He then argued that there was no such thing as a skill roll because the system never defines that. The problem isn't that he wants a clear and cohesive game. It's that he wants an overly robotic and extremely detailed game. That is not the game that any of the people involved in it want to make. It's not even the kind of game that many of the fans would want.

For instance, he complains about how you get "free Merit dots" with Mystery Cult Initiation. It's meant to be used for reasonable groups, and either approved or outright created by the ST to represent in-game factions. Personally, I would not want it to have defined and detailed. I already don't like the way Covenant specific Blood Sorcery works, or any other "faction locked" aspects.

>>48363624
It works that way if you're incompetent. The RAW isn't broken, the RAW is loose. The RAW is intentionally loose. The list of Conditions isn't even comprehensive. This is on par with saying Iron Heart Surge can defeat Gravity.

>>48363666
You're fighting a war against the Titans. Or at least, you were in 1e. 2e seems to be quite a bit different.

>>48363666

I'm getting into it with 2e so I can't speak to the original edition, but it seems to be your usual urban fantasy stuff with mythology as background rather than vampires and werewolves. There's some elements of "grow strong enough to become a god yourself" and some "fight the evil Titans" as well, but neither of those really interest me as much as exploring the hijinks people get up to when given divine powers.

I kinda like the idea of the Norse gods empowering some random chumps to beat up Neo-Nazis, for instance.

>>48363774
>Veil of Moments
Motherfucker, what did I just say? The RAW there is broken. It needs to be fucking changed.
>Rotes aren't Skill rolls
Debatable. Yantras don't involve any equipment bonus. It's a yantra bonus, but there's a rating equal to skill dots involved. That's arguably a skill roll. And even if it doesn't, Steadfast STILL WORKS ANYWAY to break Fate.
>For instance, he complains about how you get "free Merit dots" with Mystery Cult Initiation.
The merit's broken as fuck. Ditch it completely.

>>48363817
The merit is broken if you intentionally break it. You use it as its intended and its fine. Shit, I don't even have a problem with free merits in the first place.

You're looking for cracks. Yes, you're going to find them. You're also playing the game wrong and likely to get kicked out of any group for doing the shit you're bitching about.

And Veil of Moments only works that way if you can't understand when to ignore the Rules as Written. What do you want Veil of Moments to say? Do you want it to list off which Tilts it applies to and which it doesn't? Or do you want it to patronize you and tell you to use common sense? At best, I can see throwing a "could" in there, which is still just as vague, but explicitly so. I'm sure then you'd complain about Mother May I.

>>48363884
Aspel please go.

>>48324429
When they cry, weirdly enough bleach, kekieshi, mu Shi shi, speed grapher, blood the last vampire, blood +, vampire hunter D, Akiria, gunslinger girls, umineiko no koro ni, trigun is decent inspiration for Promethean, flying witch, kikis delivery service , my neighbor Totoro, sprites away, princess monoke, devil is a part timer, I couldn't be a hero so I got a part time job, howls moving castle sailor moon, black butler, I could list more but I don't care too there are two things I do anime and rp I also read a bunch but mostly those other things

>>48363947
No.
Answer the question. How would you word it.

>>48364127
First we'd need to pin down what the designer intent of the spell actually is.

>>48364211
The intent is pretty clear. It's meant to keep you from getting new status effects. The "problem" such as it is, is that Tilts are intentionally vague and can cover all manner of things. Immobilized could mean a paralytic spell or poison, or it could mean you've been handcuffed or bound in duct tape.

This means that if you treat RAW as an unassailable fortress of Truth, being in temporal stasis means you can't be handcuffed (Immobilized), you can never lose your vision in the dark (Blinded), and can move through deep snow (Blizzard) or water (Flooded) without being impeded. They can never fall on their ass (Knockdown). If the Obrimos applies the "Weightless" tilt to the area, the Mage is somehow still pinned to the ground. Even in an area with the "Oxygenless vacuum" Environmental Tilt, the Acanthus in this "RAW is God" situation can breathe.

But clearly it's meant to keep you safe from things like Arm Wrack, Poison, etcetera.

>>48364507
Uh, if it would stop an Arm Wrack RAI, I don't see why it wouldn't stop a handcuff Immobilized.

>>48364613
The way I see it, it keeps your personal timeline from being altered. Your self is in a state of stasis.
Holding someone's hands isn't part of themselves.

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>>48364734
>Holding someone's hands

Whoa whoa whoah, this isn't ERP General.

>>48364613
Look at this this way
You're using a spell to keep your self, your actual being, from being directly altered
Thus, someone smacking you with a wrench is going to find that, even if you might take some damage from it, your arm doesn't break, because it's frozen in time
But if someone puts a pair of handcuffs on you, that's an outside force preventing you from moving your arms beyond a certain extent. Stasis can't do shit to stop that.

>>48365165
Uh huh, and why would darkness still affect you? Your eyes don't care about that shit.

>>48365187
Because the spell doesn't project a fucking light ray from your eyes to let you see. There is no light, and thus you cannot see.

>>48364507
>While this spell is active, the subject becomes immune to things that worsen with time.

It sounds like this is the spells goal, but the writer just got diarrhea of the mouth(or in this case, keyboard).

Immunity to all conditions and tilts for a 2 dot spell would be broken beyond all words and my ST would laugh for 7 days and 7 nights if I implied that was the spells intended interpretation.

>>48365222
Well, not only is that the spell's goal, that's literally what it says.
Which is why it's ridiculous to say that it applies to LITERALLY ALL TILTS just because it didn't spell out that it doesn't mean LITERALLY ALL TILTS.

I mean, I think most of us are in agreement on how the spell is intended to work, but the Acolytes of Touhou disagree for the sake of disagreement.

>>48365222
>>48365263
The Acolytes of Touhou are basically saying the wording of the spell needs to be fixed.

>>48365263
It seems to be implied to only apply to conditions and tilts that result from the passage of time. Arm wrack is going to be bad in the immediate moment because hur dur, your arm is fucked up. But something like blood loss, poisoned, ill, et cetera. Hell, many conditions resulting from extreme enviroments of a certain level and lower(You wouldn't be immune to hail, but immune to gradually worsening hypothermia from a rainstorm or snow? Sure)

>>48365843

Obviously, the wording of the spell should always be the best that it can be.

You are limited by word count and page space, so brevity is crucial.

In such an improvised spellcasting system all spells are example spells. They should both inspire, giving you ideas that you might not have thought of, but also clarify, showing the practical limits of what is possible.

2ho, et. al. might be nitpicking, but I find it difficult to imagine that with sufficient effort a wording could not me found that would satisfy everyone involved.

If not for the sake of rules-layers, then for the sake of new players who are struggling to understand the limits of a new rules system.

Let me say from the get go, that I am not trying to write something akin to Magic the Gathering rules. So what other option do we have to concisely write rules for a rigorous and non self contradictory system?

>>48367015

Rules systems and legal systems share much in common.
Magic the Gathering has what I would argue is a statute based rules system, in order to understand how something works you read the appropriate parts of the rules, and apply them.
When the current rules are not clear enough, they get amended and clarified.
The problem with such a system is that it takes a prodigious amount of effort, takes up a lot of pages, and requires constant maintenance.

The system that I think is more appropriate to CofD is similar to the ancient systems like the Laws of Hammurabi.
The foundation was a set of general principles followed by an example case with a prescribed verdict.
Such a system required a wise and just Judge, who knew the general principles well, and could extrapolate from them to see how they applied to a particular case.

If an example was given for how to settle a situation when some guy kills your oxen, that was enough information to determine what verdict should be made when instead it was a goat, a camel, or a mule.

This is the kind of system that we need in CofD. Even if it never gets printed, a solid pdf / netbook / 1d4chan article would go a long way in helping to prevent these recurring arguments.

>>48367015
>>48367145

And what are these general foundational principles that you propose?
Let me guess, you don't know.

You pretty much decided to write a brand new rules system on the basis of CofD.
And if you expect any input from these threads besides general whining you are deluded.
But your naive idealism is cute. I will help, if you can start and come up with something useful.

>>48359471

were many spell practices changed? Every now and then I see posts both in the OPP forums and out of it questioning whether a given spell is in the correct practice and its often good questioning.

Okay, I need help. I distinctly remember somewhere it being said that there is an option to add dice to your spellcasting pool in Mage at one reach per die. But I can't find it. Is it false memory or something?

>>48367626
False memory, I think.

>>48367635
Well, fuck. Damn shame, it was one of the last elements to unfuck Mage.

>>48367626
>>48367635
>>48367664
Might have been an earlier dev-blog feature that got axed, like summoning creatures for boons.

Mages don't need more dice and power. If your table really needs it, houserule it in or increase yantra speed/slots.

>>48367712
>>48367712
I probably will. I just wanted to use it if it were canon, rather than having to houserule it in, because it then could be used across tables.

And Mages feel a lot more like conjurors of cheap tricks now. I know that people dislike the old "ritual casting" rules (and I kinda dislike them myself) but Dave promised Mages being able to do major workings if they do major investment, and it just isn't there. So with the dearth of mana in the new system, allowing for trade-off of 1 extra die per 2 mana fed into the spell for mitigation while casting it ritually would be nice.

>>48367756
You can extend your rituals by your ritual interval for an extra die, up to 5 times. An 18 hour ritual is kind of hard to swallow for a +5 at low gnosis, but the moment you hit Gnosis 3, that goes down to 6 hours.

>>48367841
It's _capped._

>>48367841
He probably meant MAJOR workings. Like suburb- or city-scale.

>>48367880
Yes, this.

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>>48367015
>>48367145
Why not just say it stops all Conditions and Tilts "that could reasonably be prevented by stasis of bodily state" or something like that?

>RAW doesn't need to match RAI
This is why I'll never run a game for anonymous WoD communities. You people are delusional retards.

>>48368391
Hey, man, half the thread agrees with you.

>>48368411
A 50/50 chance per player is a bit too much.

>>48368454
I have two+ players that agree with you. Are you willing to try running a game for us?

>>48361533
Not the guy you responded to originally, but I *get* how Awakened magic works thematically and fluff-wise just fine. It's the actual mechanics of freeform sorcery that make my eyes go crosswise.

>>48368391
>>48368498
Maybe CofD isn't the game for you if you're such a RAWtard?

>>48368391
Is you willing to run a game?

>>48368391
>>48368411
>>48368454
>>48368477
CofD rulesfag here. I'm up for a game.

>>48368517

I don't think CofD's supposed to be an extended game of guessing what the complex set of rules "really want to get across" outside of the fluff. RAW can never sync up with RAI because tabletop RPGS are not board or video games, but throwing the entire philosophy out in the hopes that the nebulous social filter of play groups will fix any discrepancies is a bit silly.