Horus Heresy General /hhg/

So... Alpha Legion is shit now.

>>48288641
they always were

Heavy Support jetbikes are underwhelming and will never see use.

>>48288629
It's not the easiest on the tongue, but it's all I can think of.

>10 breachers with boarding shields: 200 points
>10 assault marines with combat shields: 205 points
>20 breachers with boarding shields: 350 points
>20 assault marines with combat shields: 365 points
Seriously now.

>>48288641
Why?

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>>48288641
The plan is working then

>>48288700
>Why?
Headhunters and Banestrike are shit when compared to Seekers and Scorpius rounds.

>>48288700
10 Veterans 160 points

Ayyy Jesus Christ vets are fookin scary now

>>48288669

They are slightly more expensive per model for their weapons then normal jet bikes, but they can offer a whole metric shit ton of fast moving firepower, while, in a pinch not being overly incompetent in a man fight

aggressive legions like NL, SoH and WE are probably gonna see them in place of more static heavy options, especially WE with the new chainaxes, as well as WS and Ravenwing DA

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>>48288717
I thought those exhaust ports were suppose to be a prototype, but it doesn't stop every Chaos Space Marine and their brother from having them.

Does anybody have a copy of 'The beast must die'? Kat and torrentz aren't turning it up.

>>48288771
No, it's just a design adapted to void combat.

>>48288800
Thanks, Khorne. Didn't they have less radiation protection?

>>48288843
Inferior rad shielding, but bigger thrusters for void combat I think the paragraph underneath it says.

Which confuses me, because I thought that they had exhaust ports sticking out the sides, but it turns out they're like mini thruster packs

We Halo 5 spartans now

>>48288669
FW have fucked up not giving us Chariot jetbikes

Maybe they can make it up to us by releasing bullock pattern jetbikes

>>48288888
Oh shoot, boys, we're all Khorne now. Don't kill yourselves for being the most boring Chaos God, it'll only make him stronger.
>Which confuses me, because I thought that they had exhaust ports sticking out the sides, but it turns out they're like mini thruster packs
I think this is a callback to an older piece of art.

>>48288888
My Khornate quints confirm that the Horus Heresy is a halo tie-in game

Did we discuss the dorito's new gun option last thread?
>Arachnus Heavy Lascannon Array +50 points
>48" S10 AP2 Heavy 2 Exoshock
>Exoshock: if this weapon scores a penetrating hit roll a dice, on a 4+ it causes another automatic penetrating hit against which cover saves cannot be taken.
My feeling is its may be better against land raiders/spartans than the autocannons, but not 50 points better.

>1 unit of 20 Tacticals with additional CCW costs 265
>2 units of 10 Veterans cost 320
>for those extra 55pts, they get...
>20 more attacks in close combat
>access to 2.5ppm melta bombs
>access to combi-weapons
>access to power weapons
>access to special/heavy weapons
>Stubborn/+1WS/+1ArP/Outflank&Sniper/Shred vs. MC and GMC
>and they lose...
>Fury of the Legion, that's it

Thanks FW, it's not as if PotL was popular enough already.

>>48288938
Tacticals are a meme, welcome to the age of vets and assaults

>>48288888
Witnessed

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>>48288902
>Chariot jetbikes
Games workshop has your back.

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>>48288964
Superior version coming through.

>>48288914

I mentioned it briefly before I found out they were strength 10

Imagine how fucking scary Ironwing just became, tank hunter bs 5 pred squadrons and tank hunter/skyfire Doredeos with those things

and since rotor cannon are free now and tacticals went down in cost, anything that those things pop is gonna eat a whole fuck ton of shots

>>48288973
Is that an actual model?

>>48289000
Not yet. Custodes are going to get it, just with eagles instead of wolves.

>>48288938
PotL got nerfed a teensy bit, it's all about Chosn Duty now

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>>48288964
>>48288973

>>48289013
Excellent, my loincloth is already quivering.

>>48288771
The Warmaster hoarded all the good shit for the legions he knew would go traitor, and during the Heresy he had a lot of Dark Mechanicum allies who produced that stuff for his legions.

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>>48289414
I know that but just that one pattern of exhaust ports though? All of the Chaos must have really ruined Horus more than we imagined.

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>>48289414
The problem with this argument is in the current timeline there's only 1 year between Davin and Isstvan III, and then 1 year to Isstvan V. It seems unrealistic that Horus could change the logistics of the imperium that much in the two years between him falling to chaos and full civil war breaking out.

Threadguy, are you alright? You've seemed a bit out of it lately, with the ALL IS DUST and the lackluster opening posts.

I am so fuckng hard right now this is the best news ever holy shit thank you forge world this is so ducking awesome finally I've been waiting since the start of the heresy for this and it's finally here holy shit fuck yea at long last its hat I always wanted and FW personally delivered it to me it's like having Alan sucking my dick while getting super boosted and holy fuck yea finally at last

>>48289520
Yeah the timeline's too constrained.

You would expect a galactic civil war to take longer than 8 years

>>48289534
What?

Salamander breachers. Do you all scoff at this after the rule changes?

>>48289520
Holy shit, I never realised calth lasted for about half of the whole heresy

This along with imperium secundus makes way more sense to me now why the Ultramarines weren't involved in the heresy more

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>>48289533
>Threadguy, are you alright?
Yes.
>with the ALL IS DUST
Oh dear. It's nothing but a reference to the ending of the Days of Our Lives "Like sand in the hourglass so is the Days of Our Lives", and possibly because I'm really really wanting to see Ahzek's art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5RrvVXGtk4
>lackluster opening posts.
I figured this was happening.

>>48289607
>Oh dear. It's nothing but a reference to the ending of the Days of Our Lives "Like sand in the hourglass so is the Days of Our Lives"
Ah, y'know, I did see that video in the posts a few times but I usually browse this thread on my phone and try not to stream video. Don't have unlimited data.

>>48290153
Data can be a real pain sometimes. The video doesn't have those words however as it's just the theme itself.

Hay guys, got the html of the new army list working but I can't find where it says legions can take knights as LoW, I saw some guy in the last thread talking about it

>>48290365
page 9 first bulletin

>>48289520
You're conflating two different things.

The vast majority of armor chaos marines have came from after the Heresy, from either scavenge or Dark Mechanicum forges. Of those forges, it's possible that the most powerful and influential ones only have access to the anvilus pattern power pack, and so that's what the majority of chaos marines receive.

Pre-Heresy, they wouldn't have anything that different from loyalists, with perhaps a bit more Mk4.

Hello. 40k player trying to get into 30k. I am at a loss considering which books do I need to get to make a 30k marine army? do I only need this new marine legion book or I must get all 6 books plus the tagmata lists?

>>48290568
All books

>>48290594
Lies, the current book everyone is raving about and the new legions book out in a bit are all he needs.

>>48290612
Why do you want 40k scum infesting our game?

>>48290568

Well, what do you want to play? Mechanicum, Legion Astartes, Cults and Milita, or Solar Auxilla?

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>>48290622
>Implying you werent just like him at one point

>>48290622
Please use the wraithknight model to show the court where the waacfag touched you.

>>48289592
Yes we do

>>48290682
I find this acceptable, as I run 3 squads of 10.

>>48290691
Praise the Emperor for these summer sales on equipment!

>>48290717
Sales!

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>>48290743
Not everyone has been so lucky though.

>>48290509
The post I replied to said
>The Warmaster hoarded all the good shit for the legions he knew would go traitor
and my post was a direct response to that. Maybe should have been clearer that I was only replying to one of the points, I admit.

>>48289592
Can't recall salamanders rules, what's the deal with their breaches now?

when dealing with FW resin, do you first cut everything, wash, and then glue or

cut, glue, and then wash

>>48290831
Wash then glue. Glue doesn't like mold release.

>>48290831
first i chew off all the sprue pieces. then i snort all the dust. then i wash it and glue it.

>>48290858
Literal Fucking Cancer.

>>48290845
That's what I thought, but I was hoping that it'd be fine to glue first. Washing some of these tiny parts kills a piece of my soul every time.

So how long until battlescribe gets updated with the new points

>>48290883
Probably a month

>>48290153
>I usually browse this thread on my phone and try not to stream video. Don't have unlimited data.
Same
>>48289607
Thanks for explaining the reference. The 4th & 3rd past threads were lacklustre with all that...stuff and hotpocketing, so I figured you were disheartened or something. Glad to be wrong there.

Anyone working on a readable pdf or know of any good converter? I can leave it overnight and upload tomorrow morning.

>preorder the new red book
>FW didn't send it today

>>48291000
Oh I was maybe 2% disheartened, but I honestly couldn't think of anything for the thread summaries recently. I've got some sort of block going on.

>>48290858
>first i chew off all the sprue pieces. then i snort all the dust.
Kakophoni Orchestrator, is that you?

>>48290858
Remember to film it in black & white, and dub it over with sad piano music in french

>>48291074
how can piano music be in any language but piano?

>>48291040
I'm on my phone right now. Can't properly check 1d4chan, can't download the links presented, can't writefag.
The week I took for summerfagging was the week FW exploded with updates. A little catching up to spice things up a bit, huh.

>>48291113
Oh I hear you. I really need to get some writefaggotry done.

Told you all it would be a upheaval. Wait until Sunday.

>>48288641
why is that`?

>>48291435
will we finally get the new plastic leaks?

>>48291435
I completely forgot it was the weekender this weekend. That snuck up fast.

>>48291438
Seekers and Sniper vets objectively better than Headhunters and their now-obsolete Banestrike ammo.

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>>48291492
Doubt it, but by the Emperor I hope so.

>>48291509
Oh, how did Banestrike ammo become obsolete?

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>>48289534
What are you talkin about m8?

I got everything I could have wanted from this book. So why do I feel so empty?

>>48291526
Scorpius is now S5 AP2 shredding heavy 1.

>>48291509
AL are still one of two legions that can get the seekers up the table with infiltrate though. That helps with a 24" gun.

>>48291526
Seekers' scorpius rounds became AP2.

>>48291569
>>48291573
Oh I see, well now I get it, cheers.

>>48291492
It's a FW event and not a GW one, isn't it?

>>48291573
True, I thought they were talking about AL legion specifics being now disapointing. I mean, there's little reason to still take Headhunters now that Vets and Seekers are so buffed (until the Headhunter & Banestrike buff arrives, that is), and Learnean are nice, but it's not like AL became utterly obsolete or something.

They can still steal Deathshrouds :^)

Say, how would you guys fix Banestrike?
Full AP3?

>>48291846
I suggested assault 2 S4 Ap3 last thread, fluff it as an experimental combi bolter with a grav suspensor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHNJUgat2i8&list=PLyiDf91_bTEgnBN0jAvzNbqzrlMGID5WA&index=28

>>48291846
>Say, how would you guys fix Banestrike?
Give it to tacticools.

>>48291991
As in FotL 20 man blobs Banestrike salvo? Damn
>>48291937
We just need to make it better than rapid fired Tempest rounds, maybe that'd work.

>>48291846
>Say, how would you guys fix Banestrike?
I think the real issue is with Headhunters, anything they can do seekers can do better. My suggestion is give them precision shots on a 5+ and make Banestrike outright rending but AP 4 or 5. 20 shots only inflicts like 6.5 unsaved wounds against marines in 5+ cover but would score 6.66 precision shots and a decent chance of at least one being rending. This gives you a pretty solid chance of picking off sergeants and shit in a single shooting phase reliably. Not going to kill a praetor outright probably but the wounds would add up and it would allow you to fuck up armies by easily killing off the assault sergeant with 28 points of wargear or an apothecary giving his unit FnP.

Thus you end up with headhunters effectively being battlefield assassins. They infiltrate up close, pour bolter fire into a unit picking off sergeants and medics, leaving the unit in disarray and let the rest of the army mop up the remnants.

honestly just make give them combi bolters with the seeker ammo and retain the venom spheres and power daggers, boom.

>>48292170
also meant to say that that makes them their own niche compared to seekers and mor deythan, with them being somewhat better at shooting (twin linked), and much better at melee then either option.

>>48292170
Give them two attacks stock too if they dont have that.

>>48292105
>make Banestrike outright rending but AP 4 or 5
That's still stupidly worse than Seekers. S4 (or 5) AP3 would be perfect.

>>48292215
what about higher S then scorpius, but worse AP? though S6 bolters is starting to get a bit silly.

>>48292228
they way to fix banestrike is to make it S3 ap3 18" rapidfire

>>48292105
>>48292170
>>48292192
>>48292210
>>48292215
>Headhunters get AP3 Banestrike on true Storm bolters
How about that? There have been far worse retcons than giving them Storm bolters

>>48292215
Then Headhunters are just Seekers who replace AP 2 single shot for AP 3 multi shots. There is no uniqueness. At least as battlefield assassins they would fill a role. Fuck I would propose assault 3 and rending above AP 3. As I said the main issue is with Headhunters is that they are Seekers but shittier, with your proposed banestrike they would be Seekers who trade all their ammunition for a single type of round that is only good against a single target.

After all if they are meant to be a decapitation force shouldn't headhunters be able to kill leaders, the guys in terminator and artificer armour?

>>48292299
making them "hurr durr rending and presicion shot" just makes them or deythan but worse, make them an assault unit with versitable shooting that has presicion strike AND shot, allowing them to be assasins both in and out of melee and be unafraid to enter versus Meqs.

>>48292299
This is probably the best way of it:
Range:18" S:4 AP:3 Assault 2, Rending
Keep them at 175pts base, but each additional Headhunter costs 20pts. Or 25pts/Headhunter but give them Preferred Enemy back.

>>48292342
Somebody hasn't read mor deythan's rules recently. Protip: they're just as mediocre at being an elite sniper-y unit as headhunters.

>>48292342
I actually like a good chunk of that idea although I feel they still should keep rending. What about?
Banestrike Ammo: Str4, AP 3, Assault 2, 18", Rending
They have both precision shots and precision strikes
They can equip the entire unit with power daggers

So both at range and in CC they can be AP 3 with rending meaning they will fuck up marines and can still have the chance to kill an enemy sergeant or medic with some luck.

>>48292299
what if they were ap2 against Characters and IC's so then they could actually be headhunters

>>48292555
>then they could actually be headhunters
So, Preferred Enemy: Ferrus Manus?

>>48292555
Too many rule complications - would it be in force when shooting at a unit containing a character?

>>48292427
>mor deythan
>flamethrower headshots
>pro snipers tacticool tier 1 operatives ayy lmao

>>48292631
There's no head to hunt

>>48292430
you have my vote, as much as thats worth. though it'd be cool if they had dual knives instead of knife +BP.

>>48292638
Give them AP2 only on a precision shot that is allocated to a character.

>>48292641
Well, they're MEANT to be snipers. Out-flamering the death guard and salamanders is a weird consequence of their rules, which doesn't feel intended.

>>48292666
Feels too powerful. You're getting a lot of bonuses for one lucky 6 (AP2 *and* hitting the character of your choice). Also, look at the RG's decapitation ROW which is all about killing off commanders, that gives preferred enemy (ICs) and that's it.

how about just giving them one of "the instrument"'s fire modes? 36" S4 Ap5 Salvo2/4 rending.

>>48292742
My main issue with precision shots is that it is unreliable as hell mandating overwhelming fire to have any chance of reliability which is extremely counter-intuitive. For example with regular precision shots and rending firing 20 shots.
>3.333 precision hits
>1.665 failed look out sir
>0.28 of which are rending
>0.55 of which wound and aren't rending (assuming str 4 guns)
>0.46 unsaved wounds against character if they have no 2+ and aren't in cover
>0.28 unsaved wounds if the character has a 2+ and is in 5+ cover

there is a pdf version of the epub around here?

the points reduction on breachers upfront was welcome, 12man squads with land raiders a thing now

>>48292555
Precision shots and rending would give them this in a universal manner bypassing the rules bloat.

>>48292430
I could get behind 18" Rapid-Fire S4 AP3 Rending.

The real problem here is making Scorpius flat AP2. FW fucked the balance so hard it's walking funny.

>>48292430
Also, they come with Power Daggers already. Removing them and making it an upgrade would be unnecessary, and removes one of like two things making Headhunters even a considerable option right now.

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>>48293163
>12man squads with land raiders
How?

>Breachers get +1 invuln by using their shields in formation
>But only on zone mortalis :^)

They might actually be decent otherwise

>>48293240
I think Black Templars can / could do it.

>>48293215
i guess termies werent getting fucked hard enough ao they needed to make it more like 40k

>>48293338
still only a 5+ invuln against shooting
>now stand real close together so the typhon/phosphex/vindicators/whatevertemplate hits all of you

So what does all this mean for the meta?

Seekers and vets seem to make termie squads more worthless

Kharybdis is replacing the spartan as the go to deathstar transport

Assault squads are now much better than tacs

>>48293447
Night Lords are now dumpster tier

>>48293454
>305 point assault squads with +1 to hit and +1 to wound combined with a 5+ cover save turn 1
>dumpster tier

>>48291991
I almost expected something similar to that snuff film video.

>>48293454
but assault marines, seekers, dreadclaws and the kharybdiss all got buffed, and those seem like night lords units

The next plastic box better have assault marines because fuck spending $80 on 10 of those fuckers

Has anyone else had problems reading the epub, it has no letters on mine

>>48293536
>tfw the next box was rumoured to have Assaults and Breachers.
Breachers are ruined for me now, and I never cared for Assaults.

>>48293536
>The next plastic box better have assault marines
i can guarantee you it will, since FW just gave them broken rules in an effort to sell models.

>>48293447
>Assault squads are now much better than tacs
Nah, Assault Squads are just a good bit better. Everyone is much better than breachers. Tacs still have uses in the form of objective campers (21 T 4, 3+ wounds with FnP for 270 points) that can fury anyone getting too close (80 shots at BS 4 kills 8 MEQs on average, 11 for Fists so say good bye to your vet squad). Plus inductii are still a thing. Tacs could potentially be useful for just drowning the opponent in corpses if you hate money (120 tactical marines, 40 outflanking naked vets, spend remaining points on killing stuff that bolters can't hurt).

I mean assault marines really are better but it you really prefer tacs it isn't hard to fit them into a list and have them fill a role. Unless you are a WAAC fag you shouldn't be too butthurt about tacticals being made relatively worse.

>>48293585
as long as you keep the unit somewhat small its still pretty cheap, and with everything else being so much cheaper they are a valid option even without a lowered price IMO.

So is there any reason not to take Pride or Primarch's Chosen lists anymore, what with Vets being buffed?

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Is there any changes in wargear prices?

Also with Assault Marines getting a price drop it's hard to find reasons to use 20 man tac blobs with CCW

>>48293895
Why is everything so black and white for you people? Plenty of legions have uses for Tactical blobs, melee legions got Assault blobs if they wish and some legions have really good unique units and rites of war. All of these options are now valid and have their uses, Vets and Seekers dont invalidate any of them.

Get that stick up your ass and think of ways to make the most of other units instead of following the herd and repeating how 'broken' Vets and Seekers are when all they do is give you more options.

>>48293895
Wanting to actually have scoring units survive the game, as well as the benefits that various assault squad oriented rites offer and legion specific rites.
>Maru Skara is slightly better since vets now make better 3+ killers than palatines (Palatines still do better against 2+ units and WS 5 units)
>Third Company Elite gives you pseudo WS 5 assault marines (among other options)
>Angel's Wrath gives you strafing run fire raptors and hit and run on jump infantry
>Drop Assault Vanguard makes surviving deepstriking much easier and gives you hit and run when you need it most

>>48293936
>it's hard to find reasons to use 20 man tac blobs with CCW
If you are World Eaters Inductii

Is anon going to make a PDF of the epub? Just like with the previous one, all my programs just get stuck trying to covert it. Is this some DRM or something?

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>>48294045
>PDF

Good one grandpa, are you going to save it in your floppy disks?.

>>48294045
I started converting an hour ago, progress is still at 0%.

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>>48294161
>>48294161
In the grim darkness of the far, far future there is only copyright protection

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>>48294184
All things can be undone.

>>48294091
Floppy disks and PDFs kept the western world safe from communism and terrorists, son. What has your epub generation done other than hand it out to 3rd world filth?

>>48294005
yeah but they cant score. which is the whole point a tac blob

As a Solar Auxilia player Malcador's being in squads of 1-3 for Legion's has me raging a little.

>>48294272
No, WE despoiler blobs are meant to deliver 80+ attacks on the charge.

Speaking of epubs anyone have the Crusade Imperialis one handy?

>>48294272
Your opponent also gains nothing if they die. Send them into the maw with an apothecary for the suicide bonus attacks and rip and tear.
>20 Inductii, sergeant gets a power axe
>Apothecary
>80 or 100 Str 6 attacks
>13 or 16 marines dead on the turn you charge
>6 or 8 Cataphractii terminators dead on the turn you charge
>280 Points

Or you could completely ditch your tactical marines, not like I care what you do.

>>48294345
yes, while being able to score and fury of the legion if they have to. inductii are bs3, do they lose fury of the legion? i always thought they did since they are no longer tactical marines.

the 6+ fnp they get is wasted if you take an apothecary, which you will since you want extra attacks, not that a 6+ fnp is good anyway. so then it comes down how you are running them

if you are running blobs of 20 on foot, they are less flexible than tacticals would be, and significantly worse than assault marines.

if you are running inductii in a kharybdis then you are paying the cost of like 30+ assault marines, with gear, for a less flexible unit, which cant even be a death star since characters cant join them.

inductii are decent but they arent anything special

>>48294369
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6itLc2qF_XLazdnN3JSMXJWMmc

>>48294429
>Or you could completely ditch your tactical marines, not like I care what you do.
oh im not ditching them, i have 60 of them and im going to keep running them. im just saying that in most cases tactical marines are better than inductii.

im just going to add 1 or 2 20x assault blobs on top of my tacticals

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>>48293163
>the points reduction on breachers

>>48293424
looks cool tho

>>48294494
20 man blobs cost more than before now. So have fun with 10 tactical marines that pay out the ass for a 6++ and hardened armour, sacrificing fury in the process.

>>48293454
what the flying fuck are you on about?

>>48294476
>im just saying that in most cases tactical marines are better than inductii.
The thing is that inductii are a highly specialized unit. Send them into the maw to soak up bullets and hack the enemy apart. They should move from unit to unit until they die, even if they could score they shouldn't stop to score objectives.

>>48294494
>>48294522
Also, assault marines with combat shields are pretty much the same price. Still 6++, 5++ in close combat, exchange bolter and defensive grenades for extra attack in CC.

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>>48294272
You dont need to score if there are no more enemy scoring units left.

>>48294533
>They should move from unit to unit until they die
they are on foot, if you wanted something to fill that role, then the new (and blatantly undercosted) assault marines fill it better.
>The thing is that inductii are a highly specialized unit. Send them into the maw to soak up bullets and hack the enemy apart
thats what all WE tact blobs do too though, the difference being that if you are playing a mission where to need to secure an objective, you can do that with them too.

everybody just sees that inductii are s6 now and freak out, without realizing that if you get a 20 man S5 WE blob with hatred and rerolling 1's to wound into combat, its going to win. the difference between s5 and s6 isnt a huge deal when you are rerolling 1's to wound.

having the ability to score and rape things with massed bs4 bolter fire, is a big difference.

i mean ill try out inductii. i might even convert a 4th tactical blob just for the hell of it, since i have models to spare, but i still think the regular tac blob is still > inductii

>>48294547
Finally somebody said it

With the changes to Moritat, is there a point to twin-plasmas again? Since you're not going to be firing those bolt pistols indefinitely (max 12 shots total), would it be better to just try and maximize the damage?

>>48294614
People in this thread are far too fucking autistic to even consider mixing tac blobs and inductii blobs.

Because you're right. Scoring is important and it's good to have BS4 bolter fire as a back up. BUt Inductii are pretty darn good especially with exortation of butchery. Surely you can have like one squad of Inductii mounted in a Spartan or Kharbys and all the other blobs can be regular tacs to handle scoring, no?

>>48294547
>oh cool you somehow almost tabled me despite my templates killing 2/3rds of your army the lets check the VPs
>you 0 me 12 because i sat on objectives 3 and 4
>looks like you lose pal

>>48294647
As an Iron Warriors player, I just like spamming Tacticals and watching them die.

How much for the jump pack on apothecary?

>>48294675
My brother!

Do you normally run Ironfire or no? And how do you usually equip your tacs/what's your list look like?

>>48294683
15ppm

>>48294683
15.

>>48294647
>Surely you can have like one squad of Inductii mounted in a Spartan or Kharbys and all the other blobs can be regular tacs to handle scoring, no?
you could but they arent worth the points if you buy them a transport, since they cant be a real deathstar.

if i was going to run inductii id probably only do it if i wanted to save 50 points and not buy an apothecary.. which isnt a good idea.

>>48294461
Thanks a mil

>>48294692
I don't have enough ordnance for Ironfire yet. I've been running Hammer with 3 blocks of 20 naked Tacticals and an apothecary, 2 Vindicators and 20 Iron Havocs backed by a Stormsword.

I don't do very well usually, possibly because my opposition is usually 40k armies.

>>48294547
Honestly World Eaters seem to be the army designed to do this
>Massive numbers of attacks
>Easy access to hatred (now very easy access to FnP)
If I was to field a World Eaters army it would probably be something like

>Generic maxed out praetor with a jump pack (Berserker Assault RoW)
>Forge Lord with jump pack and rad grenades
>Surlak

>3 Apothecaries, one with a jump pack
>Fuckload of Contemptor Cortus Dreadnoughts

>20 Assault Marines with 5 power axes
>20 Inductii
>20 Inductii
>20 Inductii

Just drown the enemy in bodies, try to tear through 86 FnP marines willing and able to carry out suicide attacks for extra attacks, fuck your tanks, I'll swarm them with 2 dreadnoughts each. Your elite units will be drowned in 117 attacks (38 are AP 2) all wounding you on a 2+ as well as 23 hammer of wrath attacks wounding you on a 3+.

>>48294790
So how's Hammer work? I've heard disordered charges instead of Fury is bad/meh/okay? I'm still trying to learn all the rules right now, still haven't ordered anything until I figure out some lists that I'll know I'll use and still need the new army book.

>>48294854
I always assumed people used HOO for the extra heavy support slot.

>>48294670
>Baw I didn't win
>This army is stupid
I would have fucking loved to be the World Eaters or the other guy in a game like that. Seems like a fun, fluffy battle.
>World Eaters throw a horde of melee marines at the enemy
>Enemy desperately attempts to hold on as long as possible
>Most world eaters die before reaching the enemy, those that make it rip them apart
>At the end of the day the defender held out just long enough to accomplish their goal

If I could have games that interesting all the time I would be just fine losing most of the time.

>>48294547
>>48294670


>WE aren't necessarily about winning, they're about being the bad guy, the evil hoard of monsters flooding the board braying for your opponents blood

Winning doesn't matter, so long as the blood flows

>>48294851
this is what my new WE list is going to be, once they come out with plastic assault marines.

3k berzerker assault

angron
praetor with all the shit
surlak
8 cataphractii with chainfists/powerfists
kharybdis
5 apothecaries 3 with augury scanner, 2 with jump packs
20 assault marines 5 axes PF/AA sergeant
20 assault marines 5 axes PF/AA sergeant
20 tactical blob PF/AA sergeant
20 tactical blob PF/AA sergeant
20 tactical blob PF/AA sergeant

kharybdis comes down in the backfield turn 1, turn 2 everything inside it charge the biggest threat on the board and kill it. then swarm everything.

>>48294854
I kinda like it actually, it's good for weakening stuff and bogging it down with whatever is left of my squads. If I knock a couple guys off an enemy squad that doesn't particularly excel at CC they'll be hard pressed to get rid of them any time soon. Not often I get in a spot where the charge is easy to pull off but I take hammer for the extra heavy slot anyway.

desu if I could I would just run multiple force orgs to spam more heavy stuff.

>>48294879
Oh, that's true. I forgot that it also gave free extra armor.

I think it'd be cool if IW got a fortification w/ artillery focused RoW.

Quick /hhg/, post your Age of Strife theme

It's happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

>>48294955

Extra armour is kind of shit now that all tank squadrons can ignore crew shaken on a 4+

HoO should have given tanks siege plating, and made it so that infantry charging a unit shot at by a tank don't disordered charge after they've rapidfired

>>48295003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU0xnpP3D60

WAR OF THE UNIVERSE
OF COSMIC ENERGIES
OF PHANTOMS RIDING
THE GENESIS OF ALL
SONS OF THE UNIVERSE
FOREVER FIGHTING
THROUGH EVERY AGE
CONDEMNED TO FACE THIS // HOLY WAR...

>>48294494
>tfw your breacher unit went up 5pts.

>>48293352
I think you're in the wrong threat, friend.

>>48294955
>I think it'd be cool if IW got a fortification w/ artillery focused RoW.
Artillery from a fortification? I don't remember if the Ironfire allows a LoW Mastodon, but if the enemy manages to kill it you can pull a legit "If enemy destroys Tank we are pillbox" move.
Also, Ironfire doesn't allow allies, but HoO does allow AdMech allies. Bring a Makrotech.

>>48295288
>I don't remember if the Ironfire allows a LoW Mastodon

If you're doing a gunline you're better off using an Aquila strongpoint as a LoW as it gives your guys a cover save and allows them to fire plus access to S:D guns and void shields. Escape hatches should provide enough movement if you so desire.

>>48295338
Ooh I had forgotten the well endowed Aquila is a LoW. Is it available to the SA as well? It could be fun, combined with their Aegis Dedicated Forts, and a Makrotech ally.
Forever fortress.

>>48295338
Ooh I had forgotten the well endowed Aquila is a LoW. Is it available to the SA as well? It could be fun, combined with their Aegis Dedicated Forts, and a Makrotech ally. And that legless Titan Primus Redoubt
Forever fortress.

where are people seeing all the new stuff?

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>>48286695
That was me, I think - Phosphex Achilles makes me hnnng, because though there is room in my heart for the noble Fists, it truly belongs to the Death Guard, and a Phosphex Achilles delivering a Mortariat and 5 Destroyers is a fantastic thought, even though it'll be enormously expensive - I don't suppose Destroyers have seen a price cut, have they?

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So I am both sad and happy with this update about my Night lords. Their 2 Unique ROWs are now totally overshadowed by the changes, BUT this means I am no longer feel bound to use them to much. Terror squads with vulkite are now meh due to HUGE points cost vs support squads with FREE volkite, and raptors have always been meh due to HUGE points cost and now totally redundant vs cheap as fuck assault marines..............

>>48295445
Destroyers are still the same price for some reason

>>48295482
To be fair, before, compared to assault marines raptors were just way better for like the same cost.

>>48295338
Where do you find all the rules for the fortifications amd such?

>>48295552
Stronghold Assault and if Im not mistaken all the new fortifcations have rules in their boxes.

Here's the bit in the new book about using fortifications in your LoW slot, not sure if its in the other updated red books.

>Mighty Fortification: A single fortification costing 500 points or greater, or armed with any Destroyer type weapon, regardless of its cost. Note that this is the only way such fortifications may be incorporated into Age of Darkness games, and fortifications of more than 500 points in value or mounting Destroyer weapons may not be taken as standard fortification options in Age of Darkness games.

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I wanna do Dark Angels but I don't like bikes or tanks

Hi /hhg/

I've been wanting to get into 30k for a while and I can't seem to pick a Legion.

I love the fluff of the Word Bearers and the Night Lords but I also like World Eaters and White Scars (are they hard to paint?)

So how do these four Legions differ on the tabletop and what do you recommend for a new player to the game?

Many thanks.

>>48295629
well shit dude, wait til 2018 then

>>48295445
>Phosphex Achilles makes me hnnng
Authentic phosphex anon reaction, yeah.
A Moritats Destroyer retinue fits well inside a Proteus, now with hull mounted twin Lascannon.
Proteus gunship go!

>>48295629
So do a drop assault vanguard or orbital assault with nothing but assault marines and deep striking dreads.

>>48294637
Anyone?

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>>48295711
I don't like assault marines or drop pods either

>>48295629
Go Vets/Termies for Deathwing, Destroyers and nasty shit for Dreadwing or Boarding Assault Marines for Stormwing

Or wait until we know we know what the units/rules are, and what the Firewing is

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>>48295725
I don't like mass termies

>>48295690
I thought Achilles was 6?
Mortiariat + spare wounds and a Chem-missile

>>48295742
Literally gave you the other options - just because you're a Dark Angel doesn't mean you get to be autistic

>>48295715
Mathematically, I see little difference in wounds caused using Bolt Pistols vs. Plasma Pistols, but that's because the Plasma pistols have a higher chance of both fucking up (1 or 2 instead of just 1) AND wounding your Moritat to death in one round of shooting. Theoretically your Moritat can shoot itself to death very easily without so much as firing a single shot.

>>48295745
Yes, they do fit inside. But a Proteus could outflank using the Explorator array, fitting 7 + Moritat.
But I don't know about the Proteus gunship option 2bh

>>48295666
Hmmm... Well, what you're going to need to do is download the army book and the redbook for their army tactics, as well as HH6 for the WS tactics. I can't really say anything for them, as I don't play them, but you're going to need to ask yourself these questions.

>Which army do I think looks best?
>Which army do I think has the best lore?
>Which army do I think I'd enjoy most?

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>>48295792
>picking an army for the looks or lore

>>48295723
Fine, do blobs of marines lead by apothecaries and you can add masters of signals for BS5 and bombardments or vigilators for scouting/outflanking moves.

>>48295804
What, are you some sort of WAACfag or something?

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>>48295816
>not playing to win

>Headhunters all get Exodus's The Insturment

>Exodus gets a rifle with modes similar to a Vindicare

two birds with one stone

>>48295723
>>48295742
>>48295847
the over ripe smell of 40k autists is revolting

>>48295767
Max. 12 S4 AP5 shots is not much against tons of marines and terminators, though. And a single model, even with artificer armour, is probably not going to last very long 12" away from the enemy, so feels like dealing as much damage as you can before the end is called for.

The rule would suggest that you roll both pistols at once, and with BS5, even a 2 is still a hit, even though it'd cause a wound (that you can save) and ends the chain fire.

>>48295852
>My legion deserves to be more powerful! A whole unit with AP3 Ignores Cover is fair and balanced!
Stahp.

>>48295978
>A whole unit with str 5 ap2 shred is fair and balanced

>>48295990
>A unit that everyone has access to

>>48296106
>A unit

>>48296157
>A

>>48296106
And its stronger by far than a legion unit that fills the same role

I dont see why headhunters shouldnt be better. Everyone elses legion units are better than their generic counterparts

>>48296180
>Everyone elses legion units are better than their generic counterparts
>what are Night Lords

AL players need to calm their fucking tits and wait for the inevitable update to banestrike or headhunters

>>48296198
You mean the updated legion redbook that happened like a month ago?

Oh boy, only 2 years before the next update boys

>>48296180
Its one fucking shot, a heavy shot, on a unit that's going to cost 300pts easily. Banestrike's poor man's rending is fine.

>>48296228
255 for 10 S5 AP 2 shots at BS5

>>48296180
>And its stronger by far than a legion unit that fills the same role

Something, something Rampagers Veterans

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Anyone know any 3rd party marine banners?

I want banner bearers for my big tac blobs, but not $40 for each bad

>>48296180
>Everyone elses legion units are better than their generic counterparts
yeah man my WE rampager squads are great

>>48296215

what is erratas

I thought /hhg/ was suppose to be for the love of the game and making fluffy lists, but all I hear is people complaining about unit power levels and usefulness.

When I lamented the fact that I love boxnoughts and they're crap compared to contemptor variants, I was just told that if I really liked them and wasn't being a waacfag, I'd field them anyway. So... If you people just like the units that got hit, you shouldn't complain, right?

>>48296260
Forgot the Shred.

>>48296274
GK halberd held by a single hand bit + any banner you can still find from the WHFB bits selection. That's how I made all my banners.

>>48296311
You do just that, keep on keeping on my brother and listen not to the bitching of waac fags. Boxnaughts have a nice use in that they can be spammed in an orbital assault list to deep strike in the enemy's groins.

>>48296311
Hey man, I run footslogging tac blobs and command squads. Im no Waacfag

I doubt anyone here is an actual Waacfag, we're just complaining about theoretical broken lists and units. Personally my local HH community isnt even large enough to have any powergaming in it, we are just a few bros in it for the fluff and fun

>>48296311
Aww gee it's almost like every one here doesn't speak with the same voice or something!?!?! Plus it's like a day after the new rules release, people are bound to be talking about it.

>>48296342
If only it'd let me have all my terminators and dreads, but Pride of the Legion it is.

>>48296311

boxnaught mortis with MLs and 2xHK missiles could be great anti air, fire 4 BS5 krak missiles at the first flyer to come in

>>48296390
What legion do you play? IW can do orbital assault with terminators as troops.

Trying to figure out what vehicles to buy for my Death Guard.

Should I have a Proteus or Achilles? I could put a destroyer squad in the proteus which is very DG. The Achilles can be loaded with phosphex which also sounds pretty good. Not as strong with the destroyers though due to no scout. Anything else good for DG to put into the Achilles? Is a LR Phobos worth it for Deathshroud since they can take it dedicated or is spartan always worth the heavy slot?

Planning on getting spartans and rhinos for my other stuff. Does the mastodon seem good to anyone? I could load it with termies which is fluffy for DG but it can only be in one place so all those termies are hamstrung mobility wise.

What non tranports stand out for DG? They like dreads so how many should I have? Enough for almost all dread list?

Anyone noticed any neat new changes?
I saw Servo-automata got access to new heavy weapons and can take rad missiles which is pretty cool imo

>>48296420
The one that doesn't any rules for it yet, but not the one that got fucked by the other one.

>>48296433
They also still kept the price at 12pts. and unit size 4, just to tickle my autism.

stupid question

a vigilator in recon armor that joins a seeker squad gives them infiltrate?

>>48296467

I always just round up in those circumstances and try not to think about it

>>48296488
no. a vigilator in recon armor can only join a unit that already has infiltrate

>>48296421

Vindicators for sure, and if you really want to run a full squad predators with the command upgrade could be an interesting close support alternative

Talon of contemptor/cortus dreads could be good and can carry chem heavy flamers

>>48296521
But I cannot live a lie, anon. I can't. I see the number on my list, and it's not a clean number. It's an ugly number. It's a number that doesn't end with a zero.

>>48296311
Nah man, I'm just complaining for the sale of complaining. It's all cool with me. I was planning on running Breachers if they became cheaper, though since they've became more costly in the end, I'll probably just spam tacs at my opposition until they drown in bolter fire.

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>>48296421
>Anything else good for DG to put into the Achilles?
Well I don't know about GOOD, but the ever-spamable Deathshroud start at unit size 2, so 3 of them can ride in the Achilles, though I can't think of a reason WHY they would

>>48288590
what should I focus on for building iron warriors? ive been playing 40k since 3rd edition but im a total HH newb.

Im thinking two tactical squads with rhinos armed with heavy bolters for that shrapnel pinning.

are havocs with heavy bolters for pinning viable?

and im thinking a squadron of basilisks.

basically my 40k armies have been very infantry based and I want to get a bunch of artillery and tanks. would that work good?

>>48296829
>are havocs with heavy bolters for pinning viable?

No, you're sacrificing a heavy support slot for more anti-infantry and marines have plenty of that, Havocs are there to kill tanks.

>basically my 40k armies have been very infantry based and I want to get a bunch of artillery and tanks. would that work good?

Dont see why not, you can have another artillery battery by having a small allied detachment of militia.

>>48296720

>Not wanting to cram a Praetor and his homies into a phosphex spewing deathmachine

>>48294461
Got the Age of Darkness Legions one too?

>>48296979
Nah, just a pdf

>>48297024
Alright, thanks man. Looks like I'll just get it to complete the collection.

Behold! After a whopping 12 hours and 30 minutes conversion time, I present to you a not perfectly formatted but still legible PDF of the new red book!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/f0c2pnieoijyrqk/Legiones_Astartes_Age_of_Darkness_Army_List.pdf

>>48297308
Oh boy, time to warm up my 56k and unwrap a new pack of floppies!

>>48297308
>Not perfectly formatted
?

>>48297425
Probably because the ePub version was never perfectly formatted to begin with.

>>48297476
But what do you mean by that?

>>48297308
Anon I love you

>>48297513
Something to do with how FW uses the background images causes the epub to have the page one one page, with the yellow background and the red side column with the FOC symbol, and then the next page has the actual text by itself.

>>48296900
What weapons do you reccomend for havocs? The reason I said heavy bolters because the 1d4chan breakdown mentioned doing that as its cheap. But anti tank makes more sense as they have tank hunters

>Malcador is HS
>25 pts cheaper
>in squadrons

Viable?

>>48297627
Missile launchers are good all rounders, Autocannons are also nice but you wont be glancing AV14 and lascannons are expensive but are bound to fuck up any tank.

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>>48297425
Converting BL products from ePub to PDF is a fickle bitch.

The ePub format is fundamentally designed to primarily contain text, and optionally have images between text. Since the folks at BL want to emulate the style of the physical books however, they include a background image for every single page and then add text on top of them, anchored to specific positions, which the format really isn't designed to do well.
Since your converting software has to process a shit-ton of images, anchors, fonts etc., conversion is extremely slow. This means that using trial-and-error to a good-looking result is an incredibly arduous task.

Pic related is about as bad as it ever gets. Things are slightly off-position (probably because one of the fonts used is one size too big) but everything is still easy to read. I could fiddle with the numbers in the conversion software and try to fix it, but I really can't be arsed to wait 12 hours for each result.

>>48297627

Missile launchers are probably the best, since they have frag/krak/flakk missiles, but havoks can mix and match weapons, so if you wanted to stick a couple of las cannon in a squad for a little extra emph go nuts

>>48297760
>ut havoks can mix and match weapons,

not in 30k they can't

>>48297794
I'm pretty sure havocs can, are you sure you aren't thinking of heavy support squads?

is the delegatus worthless for a blackshield force?

>>48297794
He's talking about Iron Havocs. They can mix and match weapons.

>>48297861
Yeah, if you want the free MC'd weapon take a legion champion, I think they're the same price.

>>48297873
A legion champ upgrade is 35 compared to the delegatus 15

>>48297889
Well then the question posed is +1WS and no restrictions on LoWs worth 20pts?

>>48297627
I myself would go Lascannons, as BS5 Lascannons are no joke. Though, I'll admit most will say Missile Launchers, and they probably are the optimal choice, the only reason I won't use Missile Launchers is simply because I think Lascannons look cooler. Though, if you're in an infantry heavy meta, pinning HBolters are likely still going to be useful, and with Tank Hunters, you're going to be able to at least glance lighter vehicles to death.

>>48297938
No restriction on LoWs? Please explain, anon.

>>48298014
sorry that was unclear, taking a delegatus means you can't take a LoW in the same detachment as it, nothing like this for the champions

Oh hey, I just noticed that they fixed the Iron Hands' Company of Bitter Iron RoW. Before it had a really confusing rule about none of your units ever counting as denial units, except that you have troops and troops are scoring units that can always deny.

Looks like they just removed that restriction entirely, since it made the list both confusing and utterly pointless (why take Medusan Immortals as troops if they don't work like troops anyway, etc.). With the rather stupid changes to Breachers it seems that Medusan Immortals are even better so this RoW might actually be pretty legit.


>Effects
>Company of Immortals: A detachment using this Rite of War may take Medusan Immortals as Troops choices.
>Immortal Hatred: All units in the Primary Detachment with the Legiones Astartes (Iron Hands) special rule gain the Hatred (Traitors) special rule.
>Bitter Duty: Medusan Immortals are Stubborn when the majority of a unit’s models are inside the enemy’s deployment zone.

>Limitations
>This Rite of War may only be used by an army that belongs to the Loyalist faction, and may not be used in conjunction with the Shattered Legions Theme.
>An army using this Rite of War may not take an Allied Detachment.
>The army may not include Ferrus Manus.

>>48298211
Company of Bitter Iron very nearly made me pick IH for my legion, it seems like such a cool rite, I like the idea of a bunch of really pissed of dudes carryign shields and guns to go and fuck shit up.

But if there was some kind of "keys of Hel" rite, full of destroyers and other prohibited shit, I'd take up Iron Hands in a blink of an eye,

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>>48297308
Bless you

>>48298073
Ah. That's new no?

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>>48298286
It certainly helps that Medusan Immortals are still one of the better infantry kits FW has made. It's nice that IH got so much cool stuff from HH after having so little love for so long. It's annoying that you have to buy their guns separately but oh well.

Now that the RoW actually works I was looking at a 2500 mock-up list of a Delegatus, a 20-man MI unit in a Spartan, two 10-man MI units in LR Phobos, and some tanks (probably Sicarans since they're still good despite the point hike) to round it out. Thoughts? I haven't figured out the points exactly since all the vehicles have changed, but it looks like it ought to fit.

Who was the better warrior in 30k, abaddon or sigismund? I find it hard to believe that Abby wasn't the best seeing his career after the scouring but sigismund has been so hyped

>>48298362
Nope, it's been a restriction since Delegatus first became a thing, nobody seemed to ever notice it though.

FW thought they were giving us access to rites for low point games, we thought they were giving us budget praetors

>>48298373
It'll be fluffy as fuck and probably run alright as well, if it is a tad expensive.

If you don't want any FA choices, take Anvilli instead of Phobos and a Kharybdis instead of the Spartan for cheaper DS assault boats.

>>48298439
abaddon killed sigismund in the first black crusade

>>48298439
If you think Abaddon got by on only his combat skill, then you really don't understand the Black Legion.

>>48298535
He was on chaos roids at the time though to be fair.

And to answer >>48298439 I feel like Siggy was probably the most skilled duelist SM to ever live, and pre heresy would of wiped the floor with any non-primarch, including abby.

>>48298373

A proteus with 3 TL las cannons is now only 10 pts more then a proteus was in the other book, so the mix of anti armour with anti infantry will probably be pretty brutal

>>48298574
>3 TL Lascannons

Where's the third coming from, have I missed something in the rules?

>>48298535
Swagsmund was pushing 1,500 years old at the time he faced Abigail. Even then the psyker with Abby was in awe of the templars aura of power

>>48297308
You're a hero. Thank you

>>48298519
Eh, drop pods instead of tanks and LRs for crusade/heresy era IHs doesn't really work for me. I can see why people think it's better now with the new book point adjustments but an IH army that isn't full of tanks just doesn't sit right with me.

>>48298574
I was thinking about doing that, but having the assault vehicle bonuses for the ten man squads seemed like a good idea since they've got Hatred in the RoW. I guess they don't really need it since they have Boarding Shields? It's not like Immortals are amazing in combat or anything; they're durable but not very killy.

>>48298558
I don't know much about the black legion or abaddon, I was just wondering.

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>>48298619
>was pushing 1,500 years old
>>48298570
>He was on chaos roids
im hearing a lot of excuses

lord topknot was supposedly as big as a primarch

>>48298674
>lord topknot was supposedly as big as a primarch

No he isnt, he is always described as bigger than normal that only fits in terminator armor, not big as a primarch. I mean I guess he could be as big as Alpharius but that isnt saying much considering Alphy can hide amongst his men but Abbaddon isnt as big as Horus.

>>48298617
They can take hull-mounted lascannons now

>>48298636
Fair enough on no tanks not sitting right with you, but now I want to make a Drop Pod IH list.

I feel like Kharybdis and Anvilli in IH colours would be sexy

>>48298703
>No he isnt, he is always described as bigger than normal that only fits in terminator armor, not big as a primarch.
no. he is described as being so huge that they thought he was a direct clone of horus. hes described as being primarch sized

>>48298439
Sigismund was the better fighter, probably one of the best marine fighters of all time. He wasn't even a good strategist, he simply couldn't lose a fight. In talons of horus he told failbadon he was hounding him the entire seige. You can't tell me that the first captain of SoH wouldn't have caught wind that he was being looked for by the emperors champion.

That's simply to big of a target to ignore unless you thought you'd lose to him.

>>48298710
Holy shit I didn't see that

Proteus + lascannons + explorator web + techmarine and pals=unkillable, vehicle popping, reinforcement machine

>>48298674
The thousand sons legionarie said that time ravaged his body. Marines are biologically immortal you know. Even Horus was weakened by age after stepping through the portal at Molock

>>48298777
Aren't immortal**

>>48298619
For space marines being so old doesn't really affect them like it does with normal people. Their biology is such that while they might not biologically immortal they age so slowly that 1500 won't affect them. In addition the wealth of experience and practice Siggy would have accumulated in that time would have made him even more deadly if anything. However....

>>48298674
Saying that your opponent was roided up on Chaos is an excuse but it's a perfectly valid excuse. If we are measuring skill Sigismund is superior to Abby probably but if we are measuring power it's clear just based on the fact that Siggy is dead and Abby is still standing that Abby is more powerful.

Which is BETTER when comparing power to skill is a different conversation but if you want to ask which was the superior warrior when one essentially wasn't fighting fair is a loaded question. As it was with the Emperor vs Horus and Horus vs Sanguinius.

>>48298796
>>48298674
>>48298619
>>48298570
>>48298535
The question was for 30k, not 32k

>>48298747
but wtf fit you the hull mounted weapons in a proteus?

File: Primarchs are tall as fuck fam.png (565KB, 553x545px) Image search: [Google]

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>>48298726
Nigga primarchs are like 12ft tall no way abby was even close to that big

>pic related:1 trillion hours in MS paint

>>48298835
Then the answer is Sigismund

>>48298835
30k Siggy would kick the shit out of anyone, the guy was hands down the best duelist in all the legions

>>48298841
I really like this photo

Thinking of doing a Death Guard list involving 7 Deathshroud, a Forgelord, and Mortarion in a Kharybdis backed up with a Leviathan dread in a drop pod to distract people while the remainder of my army fucks shit up.

Any thoughts?

>>48298796
>Which is BETTER when comparing power to skill is a different conversation but if you want to ask which was the superior warrior when one essentially wasn't fighting fair is a loaded question. As it was with the Emperor vs Horus and Horus vs Sanguinius.
theres no such thing as fighting fair. fighting is a matter of life and death, war is a matter of life and death and survival is all that matters. you do whatever it takes to win and to survive.

being a warrior, which was his question, is about doing whatever needs to be done to win. horus killed sanguinius because horus was the better warrior, he did what he had to do and so he won. the emperor was a better warrior than horus, he did what he had to do and won (eventhough he knew that doing so would cost himself dearly). abby was a better warrior than sigismund because he did whatever he needed to do, and won. its as simple as that

>>48298574
It's not a very good option though, you can still only fire 1 weapon while moving + 1 more with machine spirit.

>>48298889
Your definition doesn't work because in these situations warriors who otherwise would have had inferior or equal skill to their opponents had warp powers that weren't inherent in their creation or a result of their own training to aid them. In the end the steroids comparison becomes very adept because it is like in sports. We don't allow athletes to compete if they are taking performance enhancers because they skew the results of the competition and do not display ability accurately.

Perhaps your definition does work. It's valid to say that Horus beat Sanguinius because he was a warrior and used the powers of Chaos to secure an advantage over his opponents (same for Abby), and the Emperor defeated Horus because he stopped gimping himself, but it is not accurate to say it was because of skill.

>>48298889
Also nice triples

>>48297308
Mind me asking how you did it? I'd like to convert the crusade imperialis book for us poor souls

>>48298841
When you stop to think about it, primarchs must look ridiculous

>>48298956
>In the end the steroids comparison becomes very adept because it is like in sports. We don't allow athletes to compete if they are taking performance enhancers because they skew the results of the competition and do not display ability accurately.
except most of them do, and the best of them ALL do, depending on what sport.

>but it is not accurate to say it was because of skill.
skill isnt relevant. he asked who was the better warrior. the one who did whatever it took to win is the better warrior, because he won. theres no such thing as an even playing field. a warrior will do whatever they need to do to win.

>>48299023
Their heads look like they'd be the size of our torsos and abdomens

>>48299026
Skill at arms is intimately relevant to who is a better warrior. There are a lot of factors in who is better than just who won.

>>48299023
yeah, they are giants. we wouldnt even recognize them as human

>destroyers unchanged
WHHYYYYY

Seriously, even changing their pack cost from 75 to 25 would be amazing. Now I may have to rip off 10 packs and start using rhinos...

And breach blob point increase? What even

>>48299058
>Skill at arms is intimately relevant to who is a better warrior.
not in this case because the 2 warriors actually fought each other and we know who won. if he won, then he had better skill at arms, since he killed the other man.
>There are a lot of factors in who is better than just who won.
well lets see. abby killed him in single combat, so he has better skill at arms. abby was a better general than him, since he was widely recognized for his generalship during the crusade and still continues to lead what is probably the largest single marine fighting body in 40k. both of them had poor choice in haircut. both we're unwaveringly loyal to their legions.

>>48299145
25 seems a little too low for jump packs, I'd say make JP's 50pts and the destroyers themselves 100pts

File: Horusmania.jpg (225KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

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This argument is getting nowhere. We all know who won Horusmania, and we're going to need see ADB coughing up the fight between Abaddon and Siggy. It's like not knowing who'd win in a game of ticktacktoe between a Breacher or a Tactical Marine. The answer? The assault marine.

>>48299160
even better

>>48299162
the one who got killed lost, right?

>>48299153
Neither Abby nor Horus won due to skill at arms, they won because of Chaos augmentation.

>>48299180
Anyone who died during the Heresy lost Horusmania. The Emperor won the heavy weight championship, the Dies Irae won the super heavy championship, but we don't know who the light weight championship.

>>48299205
they won, therefore they were more skilled at arms.

>>48299243
Fulgrim?

>>48299260
Or they had cop-out literal magic powers

>>48299268
I would say the light weight league belongs to regular human on regular human fighting, while the heavy weight league belongs to marines, Primarchs, SoSs, Custodes, Emps, or any exceptional human who krump a git or two. The Super Heavy League is you guessed it super heavies.

>>48299284
all skill at arms is, is the ability to defeat your enemy. they defeated them, so they were more skilled.

>>48299205
>they won because of Chaos augmentation.

To be fair Horus didnt win, Sanguinius didnt fight and tried to convince his brother to stop then Horus choked him like a bitch and the Emperor did something similar until he had enough of Horus's shit and tore his soul apart.

>>48299340
>Sanguinius didnt fight

Wot

>>48299340
>>48299372
Horus said he offered Sang a chance to be at his side, Sang wasn't having it, and Horus got mad.

>>48299395
Sanguinius did fight. It wasn't much, but he did fight. That's how the Emperor defeated Horus in the end, Sanguinius managed to put a chink in Horus' armour before he got choked out, shattered his sword doing it.
>Horus has a 1+ armour save

>>48299395
then they fought and horus killed him with sang only managing to scratch his armor

>>48299433
>tfw fully empowered horus was had a 2++ invuln because of twzchesnach and was t7 because of nurgle

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>>48299433
Papa Sang had encountered a boss fight where he was going to lose no matter what. Don't you hate those?
>>48299444
I should have added that to my post.

>>48298876
What about Corswain?

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>>48299466

>>48299498
Still going to give it to big sig, the way he's written makes it pretty clear only a primarch could beat him and even then I reckon he'd give them a run for their money

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New bread. >>48299601 I'm left thinking on what that anon said in the last thread about the whole Days of Our Lives reference I do to for the new thread posts, and how to improve it.