/srg/ Shadowrun General - RPG Design+Logic (100, 1 day)

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Hoi chummers. One of my groupmates is building a dual-wielding revolver adept, and is trying to get as much dice as humanly possible because of how shit dual-wielding is. So far we're at 24:

11 AGI (max for elves)
6 Pistols
2 Specialization (Revolvers)
3 Improved Ability (Pistols)
1 Smartlink
1 Take Aim

She can't grab genetic optimization because of the Essence cost, and she doesn't have enough Karma for Exceptional Attribute. Any other ways to increase this ludicrous dice pool?

>>48260393
I'd like them to go through the bloody wireless bonuses and nix most of them. Some I can live with, but some are just bad [silencer, I'm looking at you]. I doubt it'll work in the end. Some bizarre management decision over his head will fuck it up.

>>48260605
if you have 0.25 power points you can always pick boosted attribute 1 in agility and spend a simple action to hulk out

should give you 2-3 dice on average.

>>48260714
attribute boost can't take it over the augmented maximum, though

>>48260605
- Brand Loyalty (insert favorite pistol): add one die when using said pistol.
- Reflex Recorder (Pistols): add one die
- Aptitude (Pistols): crank up base skill to 7 ranks. Combine with a fourth rank of Improved Ability (Pistols) since 7 divided by2 rounded up is 4.

>>48260605
Oh, and you can always go Nocturna. 8 (12) max AGI.

>>48260605

- Drop a point of magic for genetic oprimization, muscle toner, implanted smartlink, reflex recorder - the works.

- brand loyalty

- It'd be easier to do the dual-wielding schtick with automatic weapons due to how tracer ammo works. Just saying.

- With 2 12 + die attacks you're going to pretty much hit anything anyways.

>>48260755
11 is the augmented maximum?
I thought augmented maximum was the maximum you could have naturally (11 for elves) +4

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>>48260777
>- Brand Loyalty (insert favorite pistol): add one die when using said pistol.
Nice trips.
Also, that's a thing you can do?
I've never played Shadowrun, but you can literally get a bonus for using an on-brand gun?
Man, I like this game already. Where do I start to learn how to play?
I came in to take a peek and see if it caught my interest, and it has.

>>48260813
Your augmented maximum for any attribute is your personal natural attribute plus four. Your metatype's augmented maximum is your metatype's natural maximum plus four. Elf agi would be 7(11)

Am I being stupid, or is there no Exotic Melee Weapon skill listed in the actual combat skill section? It's referred to all over the place elsewhere, but not in the combat skill section.

On that note, would a sword cane count as an Exotic Melee Weapon?

Are there any rules for mass combat in the books? I'm running a game of 5e and shit's about to go down with several factions all showing up at once in a small area, so there's gonna be 40+ people all shooting each other at once, not including the players. Is there any way to resolve the combat using rolls or should I just gm-fluff it?

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Anyone ran any games recently that they'd like to share current events?

>>48260848
Yeah, that's a thing but you get a karma penalty, you're also getting -1 dice penalty when using a firearm that's not your fave brand.

>>48261017
I'm this guy >>48261010

Member of party got contacted by an old friend from their past (as in, he's a psychopathic priest and she knew him from before he went insane). Contact ended up getting them a job working protection for two foreign diplomats attending a global conference dealing with magic and its role in counter-terrorism. What the party doesn't know is that one of the diplomats is there to intercept an underground exchange of a powerful magical artifact being handled by Wuxing. Additionally, the party is going to be betrayed by the decker they hired for the job (turns out they killed his former fellow runners a few sessions ago). Also the yakuza is going to get involved. And two separate terrorist attacks (actually both orchestrated by a vampire BBEG) are going to happen at the conference and threaten the life of the other diplomat. I love this game.

>>48261087
Sounds like fun, I just hope your party dont happen to browse at this particular time..

>>48260393
Thank God.

I was afraid they were gonna continue sinking all their time and efforts into that Shadowrun anarchy Rule's lite bull shit they're working on.

>>48261126
pretty sure none of them browse 4chan

>>48261468
You never know. People aren't exactly forthcoming with that information in my personal experience .

>>48261481
IT WAS ALL A MISDIRECTION

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I'm trying to find a list of team names for my runner's fantasy urban brawl league. Everyone knows Seattle Screamers but Holly is an Essen guy. Someone mentioned something about a team list being in Super Brawl Sunday, but I can't figure out if that's a PDF that's actually been published or not. I found a list of North American teams, are there just no Euro or Asian teams? Anyone that can point me in the right direction?

>>48261639
Nevermind, I found it.
http://www.shadowhelix.de/Urban_Brawl
For anyone who is interested.

>>48260629
>silencer, I'm looking at you
Valid use of a select sound filter, omae.

>>48260962
Exotic Melee Weapon skill is dependent on the weapon. You have to buy it individually for every weapon type such as Monowhip

>>48260393
Hey Chummers.
What's easier for a new player: Combat mage, or street shaman? I'm rolling up a street sam because it seems easiest, but my friend is apparently diving directly into magic, do not pass mundane, do not collect cyberware.
I'm wanting to at least direct him to the easiest one, because he's the type that usually takes a long time to take his turn.

>>48262010
On one hand spirits are some BROKEN shit
On the other hand there are a lot of beautiful spells you can get to brighten up your days and make those of your enemies go to shit real fast

I'd guess spirits are a bit easier, but there is nothing stopping you from doing both, using spells and summoning spirits

Alright, so agents have condition boxes equivalent to 8 + (System ÷ 2, rounded up). How exactly does that work for Sprites since they don't have System? I feel like I'm missing one specific line of text in the manual here.

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>>48262069
>spirits are some BROKEN shit
Please elaborate.

Question:
saw someone in the previous thread complain about pixie riggers. What's the issue with them? They're essentially giving up the one good thing about the pixie (innate invisibility with hits = to magic) in return for fluff.

Any idea where I can find the Shadows of Europe book for DL?

>>48262176
It's not because it's a pixie rigger. It's because it's a pixie.

>>48262135
Okay, so I haven't really gotten into the math of it. But suffice to say a force 6 fire spirit using engulf can kill basically anything in one hit.

>>48262135
A force 6+ fire spirit engulfs your decker and it's not going to be good time for the decker.

>>48260962
Sword cane is clearly just a blade
You use it like any other sword

Anybody know of any good places to search character images for Shadowrun that aren't what's already in the Mega folder or on Google?

>>48262379
tumblr

>>48262379
pinterest for runner fashion

>>48262213
>>48262210
sounds pretty good.

>>48262420
Thanks anon Pinterest had some good shit. Still kinda pissed they made me make an account to view it.

>>48262402
Can't even bring myself to go there.

>>48262176
>They're essentially giving up the one good thing about the pixie
Pixies are attribute minmaxing 101.

>>48262547
followup question:
In the spell force section, it says "if the number of hits (not net hits) after applying the limit exceeds your magic rating, the spells drain is physical instead of stun damage"
Why is it specifying not net hits, and how does that relate to summoning spirits?

>>48262863
It clarifies for the sake of clarification. Also this has nothing to do with summoning. Conjuring follows it's own rules for physical versus stun drain.

Why does neoteny gives so little karma for what it does?

-2 to condition track, serious social issues, increased lifestyle costs, and all it's worth is 6 karma?

did they give it such a low karma bonus because they knew anime fans would get it regardless of what it actually did mechanically?

>>48258622
I live to serve.

>>48260892
Is this a new 5e thing? Last I checked, max augmented was (max.natural x 1.5). Humans have 6(9) in everything except Edge, for example.

>>48263105
yup, in 5e it's maximum+4
seems the distinction between your and the metatypes augmented maximum is also from 5e, at least I can't remember it in 4e

I wonder how "fun" things could get if they had forgotten to set an augmented maximum.

>>48262880
ah, alright. Thanks.

So how I fluff Marquis from Battleborn to Shadowrun as a villain npc?

>>48263278
Mages would turn every run into something you'd expect to see in dragonball, all while the more mundane players are reduced to mere spectators.

What book in 5e is the one that has info on insect spirits?

I keep hearing about them but I really don't know shit about them.

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So, you guys, did you ever give your players an actual contract full of legalese they have to read through for a run? Or do you just handwave it as "it's a scary contract"?
Have you ever had a corporation so frighteningly corporate that players had to buy additional parts of the contract to know whether or not they broke the NDA?

>>48264560
>SINless
>signing contracts

Cause that's gonna be real fucking enforceable.

>>48264560
Why would anyone do that? Sounds like you're trying to alienate and bore your players.

>>48264581
Still, corporations like doing it.
And it explains in great deal the exact moment they are going to doublecross you.

>>48264560
isn't part of the reason to have shadowrunners that they're deniable assets that are difficult if not impossible to trace back to whoever's hiring them, even if the shadowrunners try to double back on the deal and sell the corp out?
why the fug would you blow that by using solid contracts, which are more or less 'HERE'S SOLID PROOF THESE GUYS ARE ON OUR PAYROLL, COME RAPE OUR FACES'

>>48263545
I don't think so. It's more efficient to increase the stats of somebody who already has high stats than it is to try and bring one's own weak shit up to par.

If I were the mage, I could overcast Enhanced Attribute to bring myself up to the auged sam's level, at the cost of ridiculous Drain, or I could take the same Drain to send said sam's STR into the realm of, say, dragons.

Even discounting that, though, poor GM management is the only thing that makes magic seem overpowered. There are tons of ways any GM can counter that power, all right there in the books. Stupid bastards just never bother to use them.

>>48264666
>Fuckin sick trips
>Hail Satan

Can you detail some good counter mage stuff? I'm gonna be DMing a Shadowrun campaign for the first time and the guy who always uses mages I'd a power gamer douche.

>>48264709
Is a power gaming douche*

>>48264666
But, since I'm apparently the Prince of Lies, maybe it's better to disregard all that.

>>48264709
all mages are only able to use their powers at all because DMs ignore the background count rules.

If that rule was enforced to the letter as described in the 5e street magic book, it would be impossible to use magic with any competency because basically anywhere you went would give you -1 to -16 penalty to your magic shit.

>>48264709
Tech and Background Count are good places to start. The more complex a certain piece of technology is, the harder it is to affect with magic. Background Counts, whether positive or negative, act as a flat reduction to any Magic-linked tests made by any magic user who doesn't share the same aspect in their tradition.

If you want to combine the two, cyberzombies are ridiculously-technical entities who also create Background Count just by existing.

>>48264751
>>48264762
Thanks anons. I'll have to lookup the rules for background count, but appreciate the insight.

>>48264762
>technical
*technological, natch.

>>48264751
>>48264762
I just read the section on background count in the street magic book. What is considered a reasonable count at any given time? How often should there actually be a background count? The section didn't really go into great detail.

>>48264991
it's basically DM fiat
>oh btw there was a mass murder here so you now have -200 to all your magic tests
>don't like it? maybe you should have bought me pizza

>>48265029
I wouldn't call it Fiat. The rules for it make sense.

You must be a mage fan.

Chummer5 is crashing for me on load with most of my chars? Is this happening to anyone else? I'm running the latest nightly.

>>48265105
>make sense
No they don't.
According to the rules, every mage out here would be suffering from at least a -1 since any murder, rape, and other suffering of that level generates a background count.

Which means literally every single inch of say, seattle, would have several different -1 background counts, which by their "temporary" nature a mage would never be able to acclimatize.

The problem with magic is individual overpowered spells and spirits, something background count doesn't do shit for.

Your average new player mage that just wants to throw fireballs gets fucked by those rules, but the powergamer that summons a fire spirit before the run to eat any opposition doesn't give a shit.

>>48265278
>acclimatize
You can't "acclimatize" to Background Count to begin with. It's either of your general tradition or it isn't.

A Wolf Shaman walking around Auschwitz is never going to work good mojo in there, no matter how long they stay. A sterilist Toxic, on the other hand, might be able to aspect the suffering of the site to his own ends.

>the powergamer that summons a fire spirit before the run to eat any opposition doesn't give a shit
Spirits suffer from Background Count, too. Anything magical does.

Hey dragon cyber ware. I figure they're all awakened and would prefer magic shit but if a dragon lost body parts in a fight and felt inclined would it be possible in SR? Is there precedent?

>>48265326
>Spirits suffer from Background Count, too. Anything magical does.
not enough to make it not overpowered.

A -3 is enough to pretty much shutdown a fireball slinger (who is usually rolling around 12-13 dice and really needs the hits to make their damage spells do things) but a pre-summoned before the run high force spirit isn't gonna care about a -3

And lets not mention that background counts ruin adepts completely. I don't see random areas of anti-technology that randomly shut down cyber augments, so why are background counts allowed to affect adepts?

>>48264991
>What is considered a reasonable count at any given time?
BCG is area-dependent, so it all depends on the area. Count manifests in areas of strong emotion. ANY emotion. A Christian chapel with a long-running tradition of performing happy marriages would have just as much chance of having a Count as a Barrens neighborhood where troggers are regularly beaten to death would. They'd be more or less powerful, maybe, and they would DEFINITELY be aspected differently.

>How often should there actually be a background count?
As often as there needs to be.

You're looking for a mathematical solution rather than a narrative one, but you aren't going to find it.

>>48265382
Are you saying that a Force 3 spirit is just as effective as a Force 6 spirit?

>>48265353
One tried, once. I think he went crazy or something. Don't quote me on that, though.

>>48265382

But Sam's get rekt by Mages and Deckers.

I see BC as magic noise; only there to keep the (decker/mage) in check and for ploy convenience (I can't draw a bead on him the background count is too high

>all this talk about background counts
How do you quickly produce a large, temporary background count?
How temporary is temporary?
Is there a way to make this background count one that blood mages can't use?

>>48265516
>How do you quickly produce a large, temporary background count?
murder a lot of people in a single place

>>48265516
>How do you quickly produce a large, temporary background count?
Rock concert with an audience of thousands.

>>48265516
>How do you quickly produce a large, temporary background count?
Murder a box of kittens

>How temporary is temporary?
IIRC, they fade by the hour or by the day in 5e.

>Is there a way to make this background count one that blood mages can't use?
I imagine a blood mage would have trouble utilizing a background count created by a beloved marriage ceremony.

>>48265643
>kittens
Kittens are animals, anon. Murdering them wouldn't really do much unless you did it in front of a bunch of preschoolers or something like that.

>>48265443
>keep the (decker/mage) in check
the mage/decker wouldn't need to be in check if the rules weren't shit.
Adepts shouldn't be better then sams, mages shouldn't be able to just fuck shit up if left unchecked.

>>48265681
>Everyone should be equal forever
This isn't even true in the real world. Why would it be true in an offshoot of the real world?

>>48265758
Because it is a game that posits these roles as equal for the sake of game balance.
It's why noise, essence, and noise are things. Otherwise everyone would go the super nintendo shadowrun way and be spellcasting cybermen.

>>48265844
er, noise, essence, and background count. whoop.

>>48265758
>it's unbalanced on purpose

Why do stronger races cost more karma then humans if balance isn't important? Just have elves be literally better then human in every aspect, that's "realistic"

Magic isn't real m8, it has no inherent reason to automatically be better then cyber augmentation.

And I'm pretty sure it isn't the intent of the writers to make magic better in every way either.

how cheesy is prototype transhuman?
Because I love supersoldiers so much.

>>48266417
Only really super good for awakened, a sam will get more mileage out of biocompatibility and/or adapsin.

>>48266627
DESU it's kind of shitty to let an awakened take prototype transhuman imho

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>>48266660
Thing is, unless you're jamming piles of inefficient gear into your body, it's rather difficult to actually run out of Essence. Since you still have to pay for the bioware's nuyen cost, awakened and techomancers who can't afford the hit to their special attributes are the only ones really getting anything out of it.

>>48261959

Oh yeah I just can't find the actual skill entry. I found Exotic Ranged Weapon but not Exotic Melee Weapon.

>>48262248

Damn, I was hoping to tap into the same cheese our party's combat dwarf did by comboing Blades and Exotic Melee Weapon (Katana) together.

>>48266847
i dunno fampai, theres quire a bit of bioware a mundane would like to not have to pay essence for that leaves dosh for other things. even just bone density 3 is another .9 essence you can put towards other stuff

Would you do runs for skynet if skynet is trying to overthrow the corps?

>>48262816
What, because they have 1 more logic than a human? Their other good thing is an absurdly high cha, which is again wasted on a rigger.

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>>48267167
Misread "rigger" and laughed my ass off for a good fifteen seconds.

>>48265326
>You can't "acclimatize" to Background Count to begin with. It's either of your general tradition or it isn't.
You totally can though. If you live in a place long enough, you can ignore the background count. It's a quality, iirc.
>>48265516
Anything that creates a lot of emotion. Hold a concert, murder some dudes, set off a dirty bomb, whatever.
>>48265660
Murder a box of awakened kittens. There's snakes that count as people, we can probably find cats that count as people too.
>>48265758
Because this is a game? If one player is objectively better than another, it'll be less fun for the shitty player.
>>48266660
Eh, so long as they take something like Astral Beacon or Wanted as the downside I don't think it's a big deal.

Hey guys, I'm rolling up a face since it seems fun, but I've got no idea what skills are required besides intimidation, con, etiquette, and obviously negotiation.

Hey /tg/ I'm making a decker/rigger what are the most important attributes for those?

>>48268151
all charisma skills duh

>>48268165
logic and intuition.
Logic for the real cyberhacking and shit and intuition because apparently google searching requires intuition.

>>48268151
>>48268264

How essential is Con? I somehow managed to miss it at chargen (despite having 46 points to spend), is it super critical? I got the Influence group at 6 and Intimidation at 4 (which in our 1st session ended up being the only social thing I did, turns out it's VERY easy to be intimidating when you're a troll).

>>48268474
>Con
Unless I'm mistaken, con is when you want to lie to people. So seems pretty important for a shadowrunner.

>>48266860
>Damn, I was hoping to tap into the same cheese our party's combat dwarf did by comboing Blades and Exotic Melee Weapon (Katana) together.
Reading the rules wrong isn't a combo.
>>48266986
Sure, but in pure bang-for-buck one-or-the-other terms, bio-compatibility (Bioware) is better than prototype transhuman.
>>48268151
A wide variety of knowledge and language skills can help you to get situational bonuses when dealing with people; picking up Leadership can help you boost the team's performance in combat. Aside from that, everyone should have at least one combat-related skill that they can do reasonably with.

>>48268620
>Reading the rules wrong isn't a combo.

Fair enough then. It did seem a bit cheesy at the time, but our GM rolled with it so I thought it was legit.

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>>48261639
There should be a splatbook for Urban Brawl and other combat sports of the Sixth World. I've long considered running a sports-themed campaign in SR because it seems like a setting where there can be lots of excitement both on and off the "court".

>>48267285
>It's a quality, iirc
Is this another 4e vs 5e thing. Because that isn't in 4e. Probably because it's retarded and ignores previous BCG lore completely.

>Because this is a game? If one player is objectively better than another, it'll be less fun for the shitty player.
Sez you. I never play optimized characters, because building a one-sided roflstomper isn't my idea of a good time. Good characters are flawed characters.

>>48268910
>Sez you. I never play optimized characters, because building a one-sided roflstomper isn't my idea of a good time. Good characters are flawed characters.
There are so many wrong assumptions in this sentence I don't know where to start. I think I'll start with the funnier one

>Good characters are flawed characters.
and nothing is more flawed then a super optimized character since they usually tend to take lots of flaws for points and tend to have at least 1 dump stat.

Moving on

>optimizing means every battle is gonna be easy
wrong
>optimized characters don't have flaws
wrong
>optimizing and power gaming are the same thing
wrong
>balance isn't necessary because the players can just not optimize
wrong.

Man, what are you, some D&D3.5 apologist?

>>48269027
No, just somebody who thinks the "caster edition" meme has gotten wildly out-of-hand. Seems I was right, too, since the first thing you brought up was 3.5.

Mages are NOT better at everything than non-magic users, and they can't be, because of tech, Background count, and Drain. Shit, they aren't even good at amassing utility spells as DnD mages. They don't get potions, wands, or scrolls.

Magic users are great in Shadowrun when it comes to magic shit. That's it. Other than that, they're largely support.

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Weird question~
For a heavily japanese street shaman, would their spirits usually take the form of animals/myths or would they be references to deities? Like, would a wind spirit be a Kamaitachi or something like Fūjin?

>>48269186
>heavily japanese
By heritage, tradition, what? Even the Jappos have more than one religion. Go read some mythology that fits your shaman's tradition.

>>48269222
And by both, really, he's a Shiawase... extraction? I can't really recall the right term.
And his religion is Shinto, sorry.

>>48269283
I never got big into Shinto. Once again, best advice is to just delve into it and find out. Reed buks.

I think "escapee" or "refugee" would be accurate, personally.

>>48269126
First of all, if you think that magic is balanced, then you agree with me that balance is a good thing to have on your game. Why the did you go
>lol balance is not important, just don't make optimized characters
like a retard?

And either way my problem isn't
>magic always better then non-magic
it's
>summons are overpowered
>regular spellslingers throwing fireballs are shitty compared to summoners
>adept augmentation is absurdly better than cyberaugmentation
>background counts are a shitty, shitty mechanic, that do not balance shit

Also the reason the balance conversation went in this direction was that some faggot replied
>real life is not balanced, why should a game be?

Which, clearly, you disagree, because you think the game is balanced already, not that it doesn't need balance in the first place.
so you have no reason to be even replying at all.

Should I feed dead bodies to ghouls, or to my totem animals?

How do I get the most out of a technomancer's skill set? Should I just be threading and compiling as often as I can without cutting into my condition monitors? Are there any actions I really wanna focus on doing as opposed to regular old hacking? 4e if it makes a difference.

>>48269316
I'm fairly aware of shinto, anon... It's pretty unrelated to the essence of my question.
my question is essentially would spirits appear as minor yokai (Kamaitachi "Sickle weasel") or something like as much as a major kami (Fujin)

Native american spirits, is probably a good example, easier to translate to my question.
For a wind spirit summoned by an inuit shaman, would I get an eagle/other bird, or Torngarsuk.

>>48268910
It's an optional rule in Street Grimoire.
>Becoming acclimated to an area with a background count means that a domain doesn’t affect an Awakened individual’s use of magic, but they also do not benefit from it.
>For example, Teotihuacan magicians are used to the pollution, so it doesn’t affect their spellcasting—or at least, it doesn’t affect them the way it would affect a tourist. The same would go with Awakened patrons at a bar or an enchanter at his shop. It can take weeks or months of exposure to become acclimated to the background count before his skills aren’t affected by it. Generally speaking, you should plan on one week of exposure per rating point of the background count. The trick, of course, is that background counts are variable, so sometimes they change before you have time to get acclimated to it.

>>48269186
Depends on the shaman's personal relationship with the spirits, I suppose. If they consider themselves similar to a shrine priest then they're more likely to be summoning aspects of the deities.
>>48269358
Why aren't ghouls your totem animals?WORSHIP THE CALL OF THE GRAVE, FOR IT CALLS UPON ALL WITH THE INEVITABILITY OF FAE.

>>48269417
because my totem animals are craaaabs

>>48269417
Ah, thank you.
So if they think of themselves a piece of shit, it's probably gonna consider themselves not worthy of divine attention...
That's pretty good.

>>48269412
the description of the traidion on the street grimoire book says they are big into kami so I guess kami

>>48269412
Either/or. There is really no solid answer save for what the player/GM decide upon.

>>48269412
>my question is essentially would spirits appear as minor yokai (Kamaitachi "Sickle weasel") or something like as much as a major kami (Fujin)
What does your character think? You're asking us to feed you an opinion. What you should be doing is figuring out how your character views the world, since THAT is what affects their magic. One Shinto shaman might have the weasel. Another might have Fujin. Maybe the same shaman differentiates the two entities according to their Force.

The sky is the limit. Why are you playing mind-games if you want to use the minds of others rather than your own?

>>48269417
>THE INEVITABILITY OF FAE
I know that this is a typo, but it's still appropriate.

>>48266627

What is adapsin?

>>48269457
Ah, thank you
>>48269439
Lot's in SR seem pretty uncertain, I should probably get more used to that
>>48269437
Thank you, that's a perfect explanation. I didn't understand that it was an opinion based on character, or that you could even differentiate between two, just figured you summoned more/less of the aspect of your spirit.
And I'm trying not to, was just confused.

>>48269498
Geneware that gives you an essence discount on cyber and bio. If you've ever played DX:HR, it's what Jensen has that makes him not need Neuropozyne.

>>48269432
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTKhOvBNakM
>>48269436
Yeah, more or less. The jury's out on whether summoned spirits are just aspects of the summoner's will or whether the summoning process finds a compatible spirit type; I tend to err on the side of what's most interesting for the story.
>>48269464
Ha! So it is. Queen Mab would be pleased.
>>48269498
It's a genetic optimisation that reduces the impact of cyberware implantation. Essentially makes you into Adam Jensen.

>>48269533
now that I think of it, I can just give the ghouls the meat and go buy some, I dunno, pig offal or something to give to the crabs.
Do butchers still have that? Offal? Or have cybertimes eliminated ineffecient organ bearing animals?

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hey /srg/

Making a pacifist (10 karma) character, a stealth infiltrator, and I have chosen to use drugs in order to subdue guards without harming them. What all chemicals and drugs do you recommend for eliminating a threat without hurting them (no stun nor physical damage)
>inb4 don't get seen, the character is not a complete ghost, and at one point or another you have to take out one or more guards / targets, be it a betraying Johnson, or an obstructive bodyguard, or a private investigator that is tailing your van.

So far, I have concoted the following combinations of chemicals:
Bliss, Novacoke, and/or slab in a dart gun, uses injection vector and causes no damage, however using multiple drugs may cause the target to have side effects as per drug interaction

Novacoke, Zen, and/or Bliss in a gas grenade, same as above in the drug interactions side of things, but this will allow contact and inhalation toxins / drugs to work

Disposable syringe with slab / gamma scopolamine; no side effects but expensive as hell, especially for multiple targets

Any thoughts suggestions? Would drugging your enemies result in someone being a non-pacifist as per the 10 karma rules? Keep in mind I cannot use magic or adept BS, without significantly retooling my character's priority selection.

>>48269586
>Or have cybertimes eliminated ineffecient organ bearing animals?

Big cash crops in SR are soy, krill, and fungi. Unless you live in the NAN, that's where most of your food comes from.

>Reformat PC
>Have to re-set all the chummer PDF links
>reinstall Foxit so that I can just open to page
>doesn't work with the new version of foxit

are you fucking serious

>>48269621
Personally, I think you're overthinking it. A pacifist 1 is the kind of guy who avoids conflict, but will throw down if the circumstances dictate that conflict cannot be avoided. A pacifist 2 is Penn Jillette.

>>48269621
use toxins instead of drugs m8

Neurostun
technically legal, odorless, colorless, packs a punch (power 15!) Downside is takes a turn to work. But since it's oderless, no one will realize until it's too late.
very much video game style sleep gas like in metal gear solid 5

The standard narcojet is pretty good too. Same power, but only by injection, and it's instantaneous. So even better then video game stun darts.

Neither has side effects.

to be honest unless I'm misunderstanding the rules for toxins, it seems to me knocking somebody out with sleep darts is easier then trying to shoot them to death?

>>48269641
krill might actually be exactly what I need.
Though I still feel like offal should be cheaper than krill.

>>48269749
It does seem that way, a dart loaded with narcojet from the dart rifle would do a base of 15S damage with more if you add more chemicals in / concentrate the solution with the chemistry skill, with sporting rifle ranges. It seems good, until you notice that each dart takes a full dose of the chemical, so you would have to shell out big nuyen for every dart you shoot, as opposed to capsule rounds that take only 1/5th of a dose\

Another complication of the dart rifle is that it takes 3 net hits to apply the toxin / drug to an armored (ie everyone) target, which if they get 3 dice for dodging, means that one needs 6 hits to actually apply the poison

>>48269749
Depends on what your goal is.

If you just refuse to kill, then (insert firearm) loaded with capsule rounds containing Narcojet and a couple of flashbangs/smoke canisters/gas grenades with Neurostun gas will get you places. Just don't forget a back-up taser to deal with pesky drones.

If you want to prevent an alarm being raised, however, since even 'instantaneous' toxins act at the very end of the current combat turn, you better make sure your decker bricked the guy's comlink and he isn't standing close to a panic button.

>>48269848
>>48269848
So it's a question of precision and cost. Yeah, that makes it more even. I didn't realize that you needed 3 net hits to apply the toxin.

Should I take way of the warrior honor code?
I mean, it sounds REALLY cool. But it also sounds like my group is going to be pissed at me as I'm fighting a troll on a rooftop with katanas instead of doing the mission.

>>48269647

Shit. It actually seems like opening PDFs through chummer in W10 is just fucked. Weird.

>>48269702
Thanks, it is quite a stupid solution to get a guard high AF to take him out, but I did some more thinking, and here are some pros / cons of drugging instead of stunning / killing a guard

+ A drugged guard would be less likely to get a hateboner after you waltz right past him than a KO'd guard
+ drugging (if it does no damage) does not set off biomonitors, they may report an unknown chemical in the bloodstream, but it would raise less red flags to a bored security spider than the biomonitor screaming "Oh shit this guy went from healthy to knocked out in less than 3 seconds, better call an ambulance"

+ for stealth operations drugging a guard or a target may get them fired for incompetence on the job by taking drugs, while a knocked out guard would get reprimanded, or even get a raise for fighting the evil terrorist Shadowrunner menace.

+/- comedic value, depends on the atmosphere of the GM and the group to be Mr. Candyman, giving free samples to all the guards

- drug resistance ware and qualities exist so dosing one guard may not work, and you would end up with a face full of lead

-more expensive than bullets, sticknshock, or even APDS in some cases

- it leaves a common trail for investigators to find, more so than just shooting / knifing / shocking guards

>>48269960

Nevermind. I was being dumb.

What edition of SR is played by a majority of players (that syntax sounds fucked, words are hard.)
I would like some reading material, and have been dreaming about this game since reading 2D's storytime.

>>48270295
Id' say 5e, but this will vary heavily from place to place, especially if you are looking for a meatspace group.

>>48260605
i'm so glad i don't play with that guy...

>>48270335
Manny T. Hanks

>>48269647
>>48269960
Works fine for me in Win10 with Foxit Reader and Foxit PhantomPDF. Do you get an error or anything?

I really should get around to finishing the library module, that had a thing for importing all your books at once and trying to match them up with what Chummer expected to see.

>>48270508

I had that unix box checked. In the end I found an archived thread that had a python script that lets me use Sumatra. so it's all good.

Is the mentor spirit quality at all worth it?
It seems like it's not, for any of them.

SO, restricted gear quality is just filler I'm assuming?

Purchased Adaspin for max ware, can't save character as saved though.

>>48270933
5 karma to get the equivalent of specialization on two skills seems pretty good to me.
Grab a spirit that fits your character and it's nothing but benefits.

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>>48270933

Plenty of them are worth taking.

Raven is pretty great for infiltrator adepts, because Traceless Walk alone is more PP than any other mentor spirit bonus.

Cat is great for characters/groups who prefer nonlethal anyway.

Dog's downside is pretty soft, but Detection isn't the strongest bonus.

Dragonslayer is solid.

Great Mother makes for a good buffing mage.

>>48271069
>>48271062
guess I wasn't looking at it right. thanks.

I was reading rigger 5.0 and am I bit confused about swarms.
In the book it says
>When performing actions, the swarm gets a dice pool and limit bonus equal to one less than the number of drones in the swarm.

Does this bonus apply to defense tests? And stealth checks?
It seems weird to have more drones make it easier for them to not be seen and harder for them to be hit

I guess you can excuse that by saying the increase in computing power makes them think better

>>48271151
>Does this bonus apply to defense tests?
No. Drones have to be targeted and destroyed individually.

>And stealth checks?
Yes on that one.

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>>48271151

I wouldn't apply that to defense tests, since that's not really an action so much as a reaction.

>>48271174
>>48271177
makes sense
stealth is weird but I'll take it

now time to arm all my MCT fly-Spy with drone arms (It only uses 1 mod point!) and equip them with weapons
since they're a swarm I can have two of them wielding a single assault rifle right

this will be the best ambush ever

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First time working on a decker, group wants me to use life modules.

What have I fucked up /srg/?

Also, this is in hong kong.

Can anyone point me to where subsonic ammo is in the SR5 books? I was fairly sure it was a thing but I can't seem to find it.

>>48271716
Hard Targets 190

>>48269621
Freeze foam everywhere, it can really be used in so many situations

Is the AR world of Shadowrun anything like this? https://vimeo.com/166807261

Because I started getting a tight feeling in my chest watching it.

>>48269641
>Big cash crops in SR are soy, krill, and fungi

Algae and Kelp, too.

I've always sort of assumed that bread is still bread, though, despite Soy becoming the superfood of the future. I just don't see corn and grain going away even in the face of Soy providing all those essential nutrients.

>>48272104
>https://vimeo.com/166807261
...Yeah, that seems about right.

>>48268264
>apparently google searching requires intuition
chummer, have you seen what crap google give you for searches? If you want to search for it being smart doesn't help, you need the intuition to get the obscure search parameters to reach your goal

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How does a Buddhist become a shadowrunner?

Tell me, is street scum in Denver viable? If so - what sourcebooks can i read to get some info?

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So got a bit of a question the shadowrun game I been gming for some time now. I been giving my players runs and jobs where they don't have too plan too much outside of the basics (if they forgot something I tend to remind them) but I been slowly giving them slightly bigger runs where they need to plan and in turn one of the following happens.

1.They don't plan well enough and forget details that can kill them---for the sake of "fun?" I let it pass but tell them about it later on.

2.They take the job head and get upset when a almost die or when the heavy backup comes they keep fighting and needs me to tell them to run.

This week I gave them the first job where they have to almost plan everything outside the info they got from a hacker. But when the "planning" starts not much is done and I end up with 2 players who don't help at all 3 who do try to help a bit but doesn't get anywhere and 1 who does think of plans but is stubborn when it comes to other players plans. After the game was over I asked if would like if I made things more simple/less planning and I really didn't get anything back.

So my question is in your games how do you handle it? I don't mind planning myself but it seems to be best to go back to how I was handling it and making things cut and dry or giving them a lot of idea's.

>>48272449
They understand that true enlightenment is following your path in life to its fullest. The craftsman plies his trade, the merchant sells his wares, and the shadowrunner shadowruns. Add in some light asceticism while following "middle path" between killing and incapacitating and he's good.

>>48272543
Try forewarning them.

Fixers tell 'em another group got busted on the mission, so they better check out what happened first and plan around that.

I also have some problems with my runners
namely, they're terrified of rolling dice.

Typical situation
>Hey gm can I climb that wall
>sure street sam with 6 str and agi, and 5 athletics, it just takes an athletics check!
>better try a different way then

>>48272691
I did try doing that at some point and it did work pretty well I keep that in mind.

>>48272731
I *sometimes* tell them the target number or say how hard or easy it is or I call them out and call them a pussy jokingly they might be sacred because something bad happen to them in the past?

>>48272449
>>48272619

Man, I started with Street Magic and their discussion of how Vajrayana buddhism is the only school that encourages a spellcasting style, and ended up with seven wikipedia pages open and a headache.

Tantric Buddhism is a pain in the ass to understand, and the fact that it's 'esoteric' and some things just aren't explained to outsiders (Because of the belief that the techniques are useless or counterproductive without a mentor guru) probably doesn't help.

>>48272798
>Tantric Buddhism is a pain in the ass to understand, and the fact that it's 'esoteric' and some things just aren't explained to outsiders (Because of the belief that the techniques are useless or counterproductive without a mentor guru) probably doesn't help

the next step is finding a praticioner in real life and joining his religion man

no effort spared to playing shadowrun!

>>48271753
Thanks a bundle, dunno how I spaced on that.

Oi Chummers!
I'm building my first rigger and in my opinion the books (4th edition) are missing some important drones. Where should I look for flying cargo drones? Aka I need a source for drones with prices

>>48273292
Have you checked arsenal already? This Old Drone? Spy Games?

>>48273347
This Old Drone had what I was looking for.
Thanks senpai!

How the hell do the encumbrance rules work in 5e?

the way they're worded, literally every single swat member is some kind of super human with more then 6 str in order to make effective use of riot shield+helmet

>>48261442
At this point, Anarchy must be mostly done if they're still hitting Gencon release. I'm guessing Goodman and some others have been agitating for an errata team for a while, and management finally agreed when the bulk of Anarchy was done.

can you domesticate beasts like firedrakes and similar agressive animals?

kinda like you can in real life with lions and bears and whatnot i mean

>>48274474
what edition?

>>48274546
it's for a hong kong UGC so none really
but around 2055-2258 in terms of time if that helps

>>48274562
fluff changes with edition
All I can say is that by 2077 people have figured out how to tame some magical critters, but some are unattainable.

>>48274562
Dude what.

Do you want to mod hong kong or do that in a pnp round? It's kinda hard to guess what you want.

>>48274671
custom campaign for shadowrun hong kong

ugc = user generated content

>>48273893
Just checked page 169 of Core, you can have up to (STR + 1) Armor bonuses before you start getting penalties from Encumbrance.

I understand why they did this, because they don't want people who dump STR to stack Armor bonuses. I would have done (STR x 2) for determining your maximum. It annoyed me too that I can't have the police with 3 or 4 strength carry a Riot Shield and wear a helmet without getting shit on.

How many Member would the IRA or Knights of the Red Branch got in the ADL(AGS)?

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>>48264070
Street Grimoire.

Go read the Bug City Chicago sourcebook for 4e(?) if you want some general info on what it's like to be in an infested city.

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>>48265029
>DM pizza

I miss that meme

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>>48265353
>>48265440
Eliohann got a datajack stuck in him by Ares. He didn't go crazy because of that (though his first simsense experience was rough), it happened because he was jacked in during Crash 2.0 and he flatlined. and then he got packed full of evil nanobots

Most dragons don't because they like changing shape without bits of metal bursting out of their flesh. Unless dragon shapechanging follows the same bullshit as drakes now.

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>>48268702
You can use attribute+skill to roll anything. Sometimes you have a specialization (that guy would have a Swords specialization for Blades) but you can't roll Attribute+Skill+Different Skill.
except for some niche cases where you can add one skill to another, like adding Banishing to the Wil+Cha Exorcism test

>>48269126
>They don't get potions, wands, or scrolls.

Technically they do; between foci and preparations, you have a good supply of 'things which amplify power' and 'things which store magic and release it later'.

>>48269586
>have cybertimes eliminated ineffecient organ bearing animals

There's soy and krill aplenty, but there's still space for tasty animals. Animals that taste like crab and talk like people

>>48269126
>Magic users are great in Shadowrun when it comes to magic shit. That's it. Other than that, they're largely support.

>implying street samurai are needed when you have spirits with engulf and hardened armor against non-magical shit

a summoner, a decker, and a face are all that is needed to cover all your run bases. Infiltration? I bring a spirit with the camouflage power, or whatever the name of the power that gives huge bonuses to your stealth check.

The only way to deal with that shit is with other mages to banish your little buddies. How very D&D.

Is there a good source for a shitload of runner names?

>>48275232
What if I want people that taste like crabs and talk like aniumals?

>>48271287
Check that the Fly-Spy actually has mod points to spare- a lot of the tiny drones don't. As well, they're still super small, so two of them couldn't carry an assault rifle- 10 of them probably couldn't.

Best way to heal off stun damage?
Trying to figure out how to get my adept to deal with all of this incoming stun, since most small arms fire gets converted over from p to s.
I'm almost considering a pain editor just for that.

>>48275312
I checked. All of the drones in the core rulebook are listed as not having any mods. Or at least most of them.
It's true they're super small but I can jack the arm strength to double the body of the fly-spy so str 2 cyber arms. Worst case scenario I switch the arm for a micro-gun emplacement and put tasers on all of them.

>>48275419
>I checked. All of the drones in the core rulebook are listed as not having any mods. Or at least most of them.

And by that I mean that the rigger 5.0 book lists all the drones from the core rulebooks as not having spent any of their upgrade points yet.

>>48275259
And then someone shoots the mage in the face, and the whole run is shot.

Not to mention that spirits don't like being used as meatshields, they don't have a good sense of initiative (or if they do, they probably don't like following orders) and they don't understand dick about technology.

Sure, if the summoner is a Charisma-tradition specialist, he might be able to call up and bind a few good high-force spirits. He's still outnumbered 10 to 1 by the security drones, which have no problem filling a room with neurostun and flying in to finish the mage off. Or for an augged-up sniper on overwatch to plant a high-caliber bullet into the mage's throat before magicboy knows what's happening. Etc.

It's only people who don't think things through, and how magic and technology can counter each other, that think one archetype is inherently better forever.

Anyone have experience with playing Shadowrun on roll20?
I live in the middle of nowhere in a non-English speaking country, so the only chance for me to get a group for any kind of RPG is online.

>>48275270
The track lists for Metallica and Nick Cave albums.

>>48275505
I got pretty bad experience with online shadowrun. To much powerplay.

>>48275416
There is AFAIR a power that lets you transfer damage though I dont know if it also works on stun

Is there a version of shadowrun that's a bit lighter on the rules? My group is comprised of great roleplayers that seem to love the setting of shadowrun, but when it comes to mechanics, I imagine it would annihilate them.

>>48275693
wait for Anarchy. It's supposed to show on GenCon

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>>48275693
At Gencon, there's a rules-light version called Anarchy coming out. Maybe it won't be terrible.

>>48275709
>>48275704
And this is set in the shadowrun universe?

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>>48275754
Yeah, afaik it's literally just a different version of the rules.

>>48275754
Nevermind, I just googled it because I'm retarded and ask stupid questions.

>>48275479
>don't like being used as a meat shield
>What is Is a guardian spirit.
>Not thinking they want to engage in GLORIOUS COMBAT.
What's the worst that can happen in your average firefight? Your boxes fill up?
You'll just come back anyways.
You'll live, you'll die, you'll live again!

So I've only played the shadowrun pc games. I hear that riggers do more than just drones in tabletop. What else do they do?

>>48275686
It doesn't, sadly.
I wonder if I could get my GM to allow a power for me to convert my own stun into physical.

>>48275835
Depends, some still use drones, some however use vehicles (and drones). The only restriction is how much nY you are willing to spend

>>48275479
Those drones will also counter a Sammy tho, as will the neurostun. Rocks fall everyone dies is not the solution to mages.

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So guys, answer me this:

How often do you actually deal with social norms, concealment, and moving around in hoity-toity society?

Some people play it like "it's shadowrun, of course everyone is armed. That's perfectly normal at the grocery store, high tea, and sporting events". I think that's bullshit.

Some games are entirely in the barrens or whatever. That's legit.

Some games have secure and private transport. Your team arrives in a helicopter, shoots everyone, and evacs in a submarine. Yeah, sure, that's fine.


When was the last time you actually had your players catch some unwanted attention just going to the job because they had orthoskin or an assault rifle? When was the last time you actually asked your players what forbidden gear they had on them and what licenses they had for their restricted gear?

And if none of that matters... why would anyone ever get skilled in pistols rather than long-arms?

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>>48275828
>This modifier should only be applied if the summoner is either cruel toward the spirits he controls or if he repeatedly puts them at risk (occasional combat is fine, but being routinely disrupted gets old).

Core book 301. In previous editions/fluff books, they've talked about how it's unpleasant to be disrupted and to suffer pain in your materialized form, even if you do recover.

>>48275895
My point was that mages are not invincible, even with spirits, and that relying of spirits to do the work of the infiltrator and sammy and whatever the mage also wants to do puts all your eggs in one fragile basket. You shoot the infiltrator, he's dead, you probably need to make a fighting retreat (or at least peel out from the garage next door where you were hiding while the infiltrator infiltrated). You shoot the mage, he's dead, his spirits are gone, everyone left is up shit creek. There's a reason mages are at the top of the geeking order- you can't be sure what they're going to do, but odds are that an overconfident mage is the weak point on a team.

>>48275865
Could a rigger get chromed out and then customize their cyberware on their own? What about designing & manufacturing their own guns? Demolitions? That kind of stuff. I figured riggers were like combat engineers.

>>48275954
I make my players bribe people on their way to places, or if they don't want to, have to hide their shit in boxes, luggage, whatever. It's Shadowrun, so corruption is everywhere. Handing a toll-booth guard a credstick of 250 nuyen and telling him to shove off is really common.

Very rarely, if I feel like being a dick, I give them a good cop that gets angry if they try to bribe him. Fun times.

>>48276054
Shadowrun really doesn't have rules for building stuff from scratch. I mean it does, but they aren't anything more than footnote. Engineering, biotechnology and cyber technology is more for repair than building.

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>>48260393
>Errata Squad

I am cautiously optimistic.

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>>48276054
Depends on the rigger and GM. Most riggers will have points the Engineering group for maintaining and modifying their drones/vehicles, and Armourer for guns. You could get biotech/medicine and cybertech if you wanted to customize your 'ware, but it's a pretty intensive path to do it well. You can brew your own explosives with Chemistry.

Also >>48276087; no good rules for making things whole cloth, because SR is all about dem gearbooks.

Basically a rigger already has good logic, so they can get a bunch of technical skills, but unless they really want to commit the points to things that are secondary at best to shadowrunning they're a tinkerer more than inventing from scratch.

>>48267167
Misread rigger for a second

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>>48276172
Everybody does. The hazards of being on 4chan too long.

>>48275835
Cars, which are basically just drones with people inside.

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>>48276303
>not being master race air rigger

>>48276331
Damnit Guile, what the hell are you doing up there?

>>48276331
Things other than cars are prohibitively expensive. While I'd love to own a u-boat, the fact is I don't have the budget.

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>>48276381
Whatever he wants. Sky Law!

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>>48276445
Let me introduce you to my friends, Resources A and In Debt.

>>48275954
>How often do you actually deal with social norms, concealment, and moving around in hoity-toity society?

Often enough.

>When was the last time you actually had your players catch some unwanted attention just going to the job because they had orthoskin or an assault rifle?

Combat augments can be handled through the right licenses. All of the runners in the team I GM who have them also have a military background, which makes the "I am a private military contractor turned private security provider" covers a lot more solid. But no one in my group is retarded enough to bring an assault rifle to a job interview. Depending on where the Johnson meet is happening, having a sidearm is probably fine, maybe even in plain view. Street violence is real, as are the precautions to avoid being a victim of it, and maybe the meet is happening at one of those places where everyone is packing and everyone knows that everyone's packing and no one wants to ruin a good thing by drawing attention to it. But there's no excuse for arriving anywhere in full body armor and an assault rifle with the safety off if all you're going to do is talk. Not only is it dangerous and stupid, it's also disrespectful. If Mr. J is going to kill you, it's probably not going to be at the meet, and most people don't do legwork with a shotgun.

>When was the last time you actually asked your players what forbidden gear they had on them and what licenses they had for their restricted gear?

Constantly. Having your SIN list you as a professional bodyguard or other private security person is a great way to get around being found with handguns and certain melee weapons. Anything heavier than that and the team has to look like they have official business reasons to have it. If the team is caught armed to the teeth, the situation is probably already FUBAR.

>>48275693
>when it comes to mechanics, I imagine it would annihilate them.
SR is less "hard to understand" and more "annoying to play"

>>48276484
That image is taxes, that's completely different.
Also, In Debt cripples you in the long run because you won't be able to afford to repair things.

>>48275709
Name literally one of the current writers you have any confidence in.

>>48276686
>implying the coerced collection of taxes differs from loansharking

At least the loan shark has the decency to be upfront about his dickishness.

But you're right, In Debt is terribly crippling to the progression of any character.

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>>48276854
Little Mac is usually not terrible (discarding the drakes), as is Goodman.

I don't know a lot of the writers by their work.

>>48276916
I don't wanna whiteknight Little Mac,
but making drakes good is like rewriting Hamlet.
It's possible, but it'll still be shit.

>>48275954

Had my players pulled over by Knight Errant last session. They're in a Roadmaster not broadcasting SINs, so they got pulled over and warned about that.

When they turned them on, they were scanned by the KE guy and the mage only had a rating 1 Fake SIN, so they had to bribe him otherwise things were going to get real bad.

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>>48276950
Honestly, I don't understand why they couldn't just say, "Ruleswise, drakes are just like a variety of shapeshifter, with the same rules and a breath weapon." Slap a high karma cost on them and the Wanted quality and you're golden.

>>48276950
It should never have been done, period.

At least they dropped cyborgs and cyberzombies...

>>48276916
I don't know what else she's specifically written for shadowrun apart from the Drakes.

>>48277042
Honestly, I think they should just make cyborgs already.
The limit is getting so incredibly artificial at this point that it's just dumb.

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>>48277249
There are cyborgs. Everyone with an augment is a cyborg. And the limit has always been that too many augments kills you. Brain in a Jar is dumb and doesn't fit SR at all, which is why I bet they've shoved Roxborough into the background.

>>48277299
No, the limit has always been that chrome will EAT YOUR SOUL BLEH. (That was supposed to be a vampire sound effect or something)

Brain in a jar may be duimb, but you know what's dumber?
Cosmetics that LITERALLY EAT YOUR SOUL.
Or how about the fact that a guy getting a prosthesis for a lost arm loses a chunk of his soul because it's not natural for his aura or some shit, but someone who gets Sexual Reassignment Surgery with a vat grown penis suffers nothing?
How about the fact that tattoos with diodes in them make you unable to connect with your fellow man?

I'm not asking for a brain in a jar, I'm asking for the limit between man and machine to be explored a bit beyond "Robot parts are weird and bad for you".

>>48277343
>I'm asking for the limit between man and machine to be explored a bit beyond "Robot parts are weird and bad for you".
I just want to roll for someone's datajack to overload and melt a guy's brain as his hair catches fire like in fucking Scanners, is that too much to ask?

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>>48277343

>>48277249
>>48277299
>>48277343

Brain in a jar is weird but I feel like it should be the logical end point of cyberization. I wish there wasn't this magic handwaving bullshit that prevents people from going full cyborg that lets them compete with adepts.

By the way, I made a character to test it: in order for a cyborg to be stronger/better than an adept of the same type, you have to ignore essence cost and spend the maximum amount of nuyen you can scrape together at chargen.

>>48277382
That is one thing Shadowrun DOES have, what with hot-simming.

Although the hair probably won't catch on fire unless you make his deck explode or something.

>>48277404
Street samurai are fucking boned, but I don't think it's quite that bad anon, I think you'll have to explain your process.

As for brains in a jar:
Honestly, even if it isn't the place they want to go, at this point their endless circling around essence and other such nonsense is getting silly.
The in game world has apparently went through dozens of technological revolutions and literally fuck-all has changed vis a vis cyberware.
If anything it's gotten LESS advanced.

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>>48277382
That sounds like Pink Mohawk dumpshock.

>>48277404
>Brain in a jar is weird but I feel like it should be the logical end point of cyberization.
And does the Sixth World look like it's at the end point? When they solve the problem that your soul and your meat are inherently intertwined, then it becomes Eclipse Phase. Until then it's Shadowrun.

And what do you mean by "stronger/better"? An adept can stack Attribute Boost a bunch, sure, but a cybered character can get muscle replacements and wires and magnetic hands and skimmer feet and a hidden shotgun in his gut and a datajack and poison glands and Ghost knows what else. Cyber always has the edge in versatility, especially with essence holes, while adepts can get really good at one specific area/field.

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>>48277471
>The in game world has apparently went through dozens of technological revolutions and literally fuck-all has changed vis a vis cyberware.

Prototype Transhuman. PROTOTYPE being the operative word. They're working on it. As well, Adapsin and nanoware (though the latter has gone through a slight regression thanks to CFD). Ware is advancing, but the Matrix moves a bit faster in the past 25 years. And what 'dozens of revolutions'? Things have changed a bit now and then, but for every step forward there's a Crash back. Other than wireless, there's not really any huge differences between 2050 and 2077 in general technology.

>>48277507
>Cyber always has the edge in versatility

That's a fucking lie and you know it.

Mages have cybered up people beat on versatility to a degree that isn't even funny.

Plus magic can do anything tech can do, and better.
Straight up.

Interfacing with machinery?
Sure.

Hacking?
Yep.

Climbing?
Sure.

Anyway you can do as a cybered up guy, you can do as a mage for a lower karma cost, better, straight from chargen.

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>>48277471

In order to get dicepools/attributes equal to an adept (Lets say, at maximum for the AGI stat, as well as rolling 25+ Dice on it) You are required to get a lot of very big expensive cyberlimbs. Yes, you can just say "I fire the gun with my one arm" to get the dicepools, but that doesn't affect your average for the sake of movespeed or other dice rolls.

You can get skillwires and other 'ware that increase skills, but without "Improved Ability (skill) you can never touch an adept's dicepool.

Not to mention that they don't lack the social problems of losing essence.

>>48277546
That's... sort of the point.

They keep talking about changing technology, but nothing HAS changed.

>Prototype Transhuman.

Brings... nothing new to the table.

>>48276865
>taxes are coercion
Oh, a libertarian. I'm curious, what do you see in cyberpunk dystopias? Is this not what you want? Business able to operate free from the reigns of goverment?

>>48277566
Also doesn't affect limits.

But if you want a stat really high you want replacement muscles or something like that.

>>48277471
>>48277507
I was talking more about a general malfunction though. Like, an implant achieves some semblance of self-determination without understanding the issue that they're a parasite and must keep the host alive to survive. There's just a lack of unpredictability in the games compared to the stories that inspired them. Especially in jury-rigging old functionality to make something new.

>>48277582

Muscle Toner/Muscle Augmentation gets real expensive though. Look at those availability levels to get +4. Look at the essence cost of anything.

>>48277594
>Especially in jury-rigging old functionality to make something new.

That's a big problem yeah.
There's not a lot of repurposing stuff and putting together a motley set of very specialized tools like you see in the art and in the stories that inspire this, there's a lot of buying shit from catalogues instead.

I mean, the game even tries to include the notion of such things by implying that decks are jury rigged pieces of custom-built hardware that the decker made out of genius inspiration and duct-tape, but then they're also half a million nuyen pieces of industry technology.

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>>48277573
don't even start, man.

>>48277550
you've clicked on a shadowrun thread, mister, not a d&d thread

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>>48277569
Bioware got a hell of a lot cheaper and since 2e Shadowtech. And Prototype Transhuman brings nothing new? They're literally making people with essence-cost-free bioware and geneware, and adapsin is modifying people to make it easier for them to take ware. That's not nothing, that sounds like exactly what you want vis a vis advancing tech.

>>48277550
>Interfacing with machinery?
You want to do anything with machines, you have to beat object resistance of 12-16 dice. Nah.
>Hacking
Uh... no. Adept hackers are kinda nice I guess, but really just a gimmick build.
>climbing
Yes, I get that spider climb is a spell here, as in D&D. Who cares? Climbing basically never comes up.

>>48277647
Are you legitimately retarded?

>>48277660
There have been people getting "free" cyberware since 2e bro.
Until they actually do something with it in setting, it brings nothing new.

>>48277681
You mentioned magnetic hands.

>You want to do anything with machines, you have to beat object resistance of 12-16 dice. Nah.

Yeah, nevermind all the spells that directly interface with machines.

>Uh... no. Adept hackers are kinda nice I guess, but really just a gimmick build.

I mean, they're straight up better deckers, and leaving that aside there's the fact that magicians can just straight up cast spells that aid in hacking.

>>48277627
It's a big problem in this game to me. In GURPS your GM probably has some experience fucking around with item stats, but that's a game based on 3d6 whereas Shadowrun is complex and muddled enough that GMs are going to be more averse to that kind of thing. (apparently even the goobers who write this shit don't know what's going on)

There's also the classic and valid, "just use things in the books, I only have so much free time"

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>>48277700
I was the guy who said the thing about magnetic hands, not him. And if you think climbing is the only thing you can do with powerful magnets at the ends of your arm, or even the primary thing, you've got some thinking to do.

>>48277704
I mean they've just straight up fucked up some of the numbers.
I'm convinced some of them were picked at random.

>>48277738
Fucking with computers?
There's no rules for that in the game, but I'd allow it, sure.

Hey you know what also fucks with computers?
Spells that create magnetic fields.

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>>48277771
So that's the problem. You're so devoted to 'magic solves everything' that you can't be bothered to think a bit about all the options that cyberware could provide. Grabbing grenades and throwing them back, sticking to a van on the freeway, getting incredible leverage on a guy with a gun or cyberware for grappling, never letting go of Jack and getting him on that damn door, etc.

Can you replicate that with magic? Sure, if you want to buy a bunch of different spells and adept powers. Or you just get the cool robot arms. Both options are viable if that's what you want to do.

>>48277700
>Yeah, nevermind all the spells that directly interface with machines.
Only ones I recall is the EMP one, which is stated to not work on most new tech, which is mostly optical, and the noise one, which just increases noise.
>>48277771
Except those spells don't fuck with most modern computers. Like, fuck, most real life computers are good with magnets, never mind shadowrun computers.

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Forgot the actual sheet

Hey all.
Wondering what I should spend my leftover 14(!) karma at character creation on, for a street level runner.
I'd like to avoid qualities (not that I can get much) and maybe any big cybernetics (same), but other than that i've got no idea what to get.
I do need to plug in some fake licenses and such, though.

>>48277848
There's... again, no rules for that.

Like, you're having to make shit up here to make it viable, and sure, I'd allow literally all of those things.
But as the rules are written?
Magic wins.

In power?
Magic wins, even if you allow creative use of cyber.

Legitimately all of what you said there though can be fixed by, what, a spell that gives you sticky hands?
That's the climbing spell.
>But that's not what it can do RAW
Well congrats, that's not what the magnetic arm does either.

Both are arms that stick to things.

I'm not saying cyber isn't cool, it's cool as fuck. I'm saying magic is more powerful, which is something you cannot legitimately argue against.

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>>48277907
>>48277894
Turn it into cash, get an Americar. In street level nobody ever has wheels.

>>48277908
>, a spell that gives you sticky hands?
Which doesn't exist. The closest is the one that lets you wallcrawl, and that one requires climbing tests sometimes anyway. Plus, you want to waste one of your 12 spells on that?
>magic is more powerful
While I am of the opinion that any given combatant can easily be replaced with a high force fire spirit, spellcasting in and of itself can be rather shit.

>>48277927
Yeah, they don't. But, isn't that for fairly good reason? It would probably make you a target for people who want your car.
I'd also have to move a bunch of points around to put into driving, but that's not a real problem.

>>48277646

This is amazing

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>>48277970
You don't need to pump up driving, just having your own car is a huge advantage. And yeah, maybe people will try to carjack you. You're a shadowrunner with 12 dice in Automatics, solve it.

>>48278015
>with 12 dice in Automatics, solve it.
Good point.
>You don't need to pump up driving
what's the point of owning a vehicle if you can't go full absolute madman.
You gotta pump driving, anon. it's mandatory.

>>48277927
>>48277907
street level limits you to 10k/5 karma used at creation.
I can get a jackrabbit, I guess. Might as well.
That still leaves 9 karma, though.

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>>48278112
Put some points into Con? I dunno, no qualities limits the options.

>>48277573
I'm not a libertarian.
I believe in a limited government, yes, with taxes.
Doesn't change the fact that at the end of all these
things is a simple fact: The threat of violent coercion to comply.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, but one that limits an individuals freedom.
My only desire is for the greatest possible individual freedoms.

What do I see in cyberpunk dystopias?
A warning that personal freedom isn't a given
and have to be won/fought for in every generation.

>>48277907
maybe get a rank in etiquette so you don't default?

>>48277848
>grabbing grenades and throwing them back
this was the best 'ware in sr: hong kong
'till the AI started using it, anyway. was fuckin impossible to tell which nigger had a magnet arm without just launching grenades and crossing your fingers

>>48277908
i'm pretty sure you're still confused - this is a shadowrun thread, not a d&d thread
seriously though i think you're really exaggerating shit to make your point, it's like 'wizard who's got infinite spell slots filled with everything required ever' tier retardation

>>48278282
what
ever
pal

>>48272543
I've had issues with players going full beta and refusing to take initiative and do anything themselves or lead in the slightest. Sometimes it's a matter of comfort and they're just too shy to speak up about shit. Other times they're useless leeches who 'just want to play vidya games' without doing any of the hard stuff. like thinking

Option 1: Build in consequences for being idiots. Loss of cash, loss of cred, being made to look like idiots, and ideally missions they have to complete to fix a cock-up.

Option 2: Telegraph shit really obviously for their monkey brains to understand.

Option 3: Inform them that they're playing a cyberpunk future game and they need to start thinking about shit.

Option 4: Introduce an NPC to help them plan shit out if they just can't be arsed to do it themselves.

>>48272731
I've found shadowrun's dice far more consistent and forgiving than say... dark heresy.

>>48278282
Okay. Thanks for answering, I was kinda curious.

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Got a question for you:

What were some alternative lifestyles you've encountered in your runs that you found curious or memorable?
Any way of eking out an existence you found remarkable? Something that stayed with you?

What were some of the alternative communities you visited during your time in Shadowrun?
How did they evade the grasp of the corporate masters?
How were they secured?
Who were the people living in them?

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How do I represent Little Robot Buddy here for Shadowrun?

I feel like a Knowsoft isn't the correct answer for 'programmed with a lot of info about a topic', when it's a drone rather than a person.

>>48280015
>How do I represent Little Robot Buddy here for Shadowrun?
what is it and what does it do?

>>48280015
It's a tiny Buddhabot that rolls around with a screen and chants mantras, and has a screen that can display answers to questions about Buddhism

>>48280015
>>48280206
Nifty. Anyway, page 127 of rigger 5 covers buying skills for drones. Buddhism would probably fall under academic knowledge.

>>48279465
I played a character that lived in a Casino and owned a dozen fake sins. He was really fun to play because he didn't have to travel for his hobby.

I had another player that played a melee-adept that roamed the streets and never slept indoors named Ronin. It's hard to find a guy when he sleeps in a sewer and enjoys it.

Living in a boat is always a classic. Lots of people do that.

Once had a rigger who lived in his van.

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>>48275709
>asleep
>wakes up and checks my best friend /srg
>someone's posted my art
my life is full i can now be murdered contently

>>48280206
A Buddha Roomba

What can you do with a datajack besides the obvious Shadowrunner stuff?

>>48280985
AR and DNI always on.

>>48280985
You could try some weird sex stuff with it I'm sure

How do I make this premise into an SR arc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWgverI7m5s

>>48281285
>lonestar
bunch of fuckups

>>48280985
Well, >>48281005 kind of has it. It's mostly for pretending to be an internet wizard and controlling devices with your brain.

>>48281005
Data jack, image link and subvocal mic can turn your SR team into a hivemind.

>>48282111
Don't even need the image link and mic if you've got the jacks.
Just pick up a set of simrigs.

What does water (like the sea) show up as with astral perception grey? because of mother nature?

>>48282225
Water is water, in the physical or astral.

All the life in that water, on the other hand...

>>48282239
Fair enough

>>48282239
>implying there's life in that water

I'm from Hamburg in Northern Germany. Let me tell you, there's nothing in that irradiated sludge we call the baltic sea.

>>48282300
Toxic critters are a thing.

They're fucking terrifying.

>>48282225
>>48282239

Imagine some Dr. Oz type releasing 'artist's concept' images of a mage's Astral view of a glass of river water and a glass of purified, filtered bottled water.

"Look how much life this glass has! And how sterile and clinical and lifeless the bottled water you drink is! Don't you want LIFE in your lifegiving water?"

Healthcraze for algae flakes in drinking water begins.

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>>48282308
We don't talk about that aloud. Scares the kids.
Try living in a floating commune of 50 people scared
to death of toxic critters and you'll see the wisdom in that.

Could a drawfag make the Ghostbusters logo into a bug spirit? I need it for an Ares campaign.

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>>48282430

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>>48282430
Oh kek, I'd like to be part of that campaign, that sounds awesome.

>>48282321
I find the idea of some Dr. Oz-shaman-type shilling stupid "all-natural" "super-awakened" remedies to be a great thing. I'm blatantly stealing that one

>>48282225
Sea water in a healthy area glows brightly due to algal bloom and other small lifeforms saturating it.

>>48282368
If your in a floating commune there are much worse things to worry about than toxic critters.
There are mermaids, kelpies, devilfish...hell kraken's, megoladon's, and leviathan's actively attack military vessels and sometimes WIN.

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>>48282698
And just to remind everyone in SR megoladons are great white sharks...who are adepts.
See this mother fucker those hooks aren't stuck in him he wears them for decoration.

>>48282775
but what about the harpoons?

>>48282805
piercings

>>48282775
God... I NEED to run a campaign where the party is on some massive corporate Bismark battleship

>>48282956
see, I need to play a campaign where a GM will allow me to be an adept great white

>>48282956
Why would corps have battleships? Those were rendered obsolete by aircraft carriers.
Is it just a propaganda thing?

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>>48282430
Here ya go chummer!
Hahahahaha!

>>48283091
With a powerful enough gun, it could actually be artillery.
Thor Shot-lite from across three continents and most of a hemisphere.

I cannot believe how racist you fucks are against Bug Spirits. Bugs are a vital part of any ecosystem and Bug Spirts are no different. They have done literally nothing wrong.

>>48283091
>Is it just a propaganda thing?
Well aircraft carriers are just propaganda now because of modern missile technology. But still, it would actually make sense to have big ass ships if the water is full of crazy magical bullshit, especially if it has some degree of intelligence. Big = intimidating.

>>48283175
The thing is, large artillery is largely obsolete because of aircraft. That's also why you don't have Paris guns and shit anymore on land.

>>48282983
Cyberfins, Gills, Muscle Augmentation, Fang Implants and an Orientation System fits into 1 essence.

Live the dream, chummer. Be the Shark.

>>48283373
are you suggesting I be some type of prototype transhuman SHARKMAN ADEPT?

>>48283361
meh, the new railguns the navy is developing would disagree

>>48283392
Prototype transhuman doesn't work on cyberware. I'm suggesting you become a SHARKMAN CYBERED ADEPT.

I mean you could also find bioware equivalents to the fangs and the fins and drop the orientiation system and be a prototype transhuman I GUESS.

>>48283361
Aircraft can't easily cross multiple continents for precision strikes in mere minutes.
Aircraft need to come back after striking their target.
Modern navies are literally working on bringing back battleships thanks to the advent of railguns. 60 years of development can make that a real strategic threat.

>>48283431
sorry, those all sounded like very bioware type things.

>>48283439
Oh, and aircraft can be intercepted fairly easily.

>>48283442
Expanded Volume 2 (.2, 4k)
Gills ( .2, 8k)
Fangs (.1, 5k)
Nictitating membrane (.05, 1k)
Orthoskin 1 (.25, 6k)
-Sealskin (.1, 2k)
-Penguin Blubber (.1, 2k)

1 essence worth of bioware.

Though you might still want Hand+Foot webbing x4 (.2, 4k) and a Muzzle (.3, 2k).