Warhammer Fantasy General: Necromancy Edition Talk about al

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>>48216414

>Yeah, fist sized chunks in the soil for too long is enough to raise whole battlefields of corpses from the dead with no involvement from a necromancer at all.

>A Wight King with a decent sized chunk implanted in his chest would probably be super strong, yeah. How strong is up to you, remember to implant chaos fuckery. He could remember his life, start to integrate the warpstone into his skeleton, start throwing around spells, whatever you want. Generally undead don't mutate.

But who's control are the undead under then?
I'd assumed it took magic/power to revive and move them around like puppets on a string.

What motivates and moves them when they're free range undead?

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>>48217174
I know that there was once old fluff which may be of questionable canon by this point where some Norse tribes (mostly southern ones) did not worship Chaos but worshiped their own gods (one of which is Ulric, pronounced as Olric by the Norse). Is it the same for the Hung and Kurgan people? Are there groups among them who do not worship chaos as well or are they uniform in worshiping chaos?

>>48217272
Generally the further north you go the more in the grip of Chaos you are. Norscans can be alright sometimes but Kurgan and Hung are total dicks because there is no other way.

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>>48217272
While I don't think anything's ever been mentioned about them not worshiping chaos I don't see why not.

And aren't the hung and kurgan ethnic groups rather than monolithic tribes?

Because there are thousands of tribes across both Norsca and the Chaos wastes.

And it's not super old fluff either.
Though the End Times is generally considered non-canon by most WHFB players the brothers glotkin had parents that were imperial missionaries to norscan tribes and they lived there peacefully for years.

Meaning that the violent chaos warrior/marauder archetype probably doesn't ring entirely true for their society at large even if they are violent, brutish, etc... when compared to imperials.

Though everything I've ever read said the Kurgan in general were complete assholes.

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>>48217247

When basic undead like zombies and skeletons are raised by warpstone, they kind of just wander. They still very much have the instinct to kill, Dhar drives them after all.

For more 'advanced' undead, it's different. Wights retain their fighting skill because vampires and necromancers put more Dhar into them, and have to focus more to bring them back. Dead heroes with skills intact are very valuable, this extra effort is what keeps wights from being just zombies or skeletons. That's why you see the extra blue 'fire' around them, some are partially bound to their soul.

An independent wight...would probably kill himself. Undeath and sentience is horrible for most. Unless he had a good reason to stay, of course.

For further reading, I recommend the Liber Necris. Great book for WFRP undead lore, even talks about how the Nehekharans formed their undead. Like, they make it a science.

>>48217671
Isn't warpstone also used to make Vargheists. Or Varghulfs. One of the two.

>>48217762
Vargheists, I think. Vampires trapped in coffins, shoved into basements where warpstone laced water leaks in.

Varghulfs are what vampires become when they surrender to their bestial nature completely.

Question for the fans: What piece of lore or fluff would you have wanted to see expanded upon and explored?

For my two cents, I'd have loved to find out more about Nippon and whether or not there really was a race of mer-people in the Sea of Claws.

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>>48217762
Vargheists have warpstone involved in their creation, as >>48217823 noted. They don't turn into the monster voluntarily though.

Varghulfs, pic related, don't really need warpstone, they voluntarily give into the beast.

>>48218129
The Crusades. I was surprised to find that there wasn't an Time of Legends book about it.

>>48218242

That's when the Bretonnian's marched on Araby, yeah?

Maybe it struck a little too close to home?

>>48218272
Mostly Bretonnia but some Knightly Orders and a few vengeful Tileans and Estalians. I think it'd make a good three part series. I've toyed with writing it myself but it could take me years with all the other things I have on my plate right now.

>>48218129

Tomb Kings back in the day.

I suppose it adds to their mystery but damn, you hear all this shit about them and the few Tomb Kings sources are really spread out over a lot of books. Someone said they had flying ships, that they reached the Naggarond, they shared their golden age with the dwarfs golden age, all sorts of shit.

I just think its funny that like scholars in the old world can't hardly find shit on the TK, the sources for TK fluff are hard to find too.

>>48218129
Estalia in general would be great to learn more about.
As is I'll have to settle for picturing them in my mind as this mix of conquistadores, the spanish inquisition and bronze age hoplites.

>>48218461
I never liked attempts to graft the Spanish Inquisition into Estalia. The Myrmidian faith doesn't seem to lend itself to such.

>>48218501
I agree. It feels really forced. Myrmidia is a goddess of the science of battle, the art of warfare. Not burning witches at the stake.

Sorry if this is a shit question/against thread etiquette, and that's the reason I didn't get much of a response last thread, but:

>How are beastmen in 9th Age?

I saw some people talking about them in 8th Ed WHFB as "complete shit" but I still really want to play them. I'm not the Lizardmen-vs-Beastmen guy, I'm pretty sure there were actually 3 of us in the last thread asking about them, lel

I just want to play drunk fuckugly abortions of nature who haunt the forests and kill elves and steal children and shit. Is that too much to ask?

>>48218129
Either the crusades, which was already mentioned, or more about tilea, estalia, the border princes etc...

I understand that they kept the border princes unwritten really in order to give players the ability to go into their own fluff and kingdoms.
But at the same time I feel like it's generally under-represented and I don't even want to make a personal kingdom in a land we have no idea about.

Tilea and Estalia were fucking cool and I wish there were more miniatures made.
I would've spent hundreds on big blocks of tilean pike.

Even if they literally just reused the old dogs of war molds for Ricco's Republican Guard.

Also I wish Drachenfels didn't have such a small part in everything.
Having him as a cancerous heart of some dark land as a sort of second Sylvania would have been cool.
Never attacking the empire outright but just sitting there being an oppressive place that even chaos avoids.

He could have been a fucking army all by himself.
What with demons, orcs, humans, vampires, and other undead all under his direct command.

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BIG QUESTION

Did GW ever produce a Drachenfels miniature?
They made hundreds of tiny little no-name minis back in the 80's and I feel like with him being such a big part of early lore he'd have some representation.

>>48218501
>>48218520
Yeah, that makes sense I suppose. When put like that it would make more sense for mages in Estalia to be commonly accepted by the more practically-minded Myrmidian clergy.

>>48218590
They'd probably be just as turned off as any other human being, as magic is unnatural , but I'm sure they would accept magic's place on the battlefield. It's like going to the field without cannon. The other guy has it and he's going to use it, so you should too.

I think it was just a "I don't know much about Spain, so I'll just throw that in" kind of moment. The Armies project needed a few more writers, and an editor. The Araby book has a few paragraphs literally copied and pasted from the wikipedia article of Saladin.

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>>48217174
So, after much consideration, I think I have a few different ideas for my second army. Here's what I've got so far:

>Warriors of Chaos
A Norscan Kingdom that has recently submitted to the gods, the King's four children each are heading towards a seperate god. When all four siblings march to war, they signify Chaos undivided.

>Orcs & Goblins
A traitor to a Night Goblins Clan turned bounty hunter. He brings along a variety of nasty traps and tricks, along with his band of exiled Night Goblins. He has mastered the art of bringing his prey back (barely) alive.

>Skaven
A Clan Eshin break away, they are led by a Assassin who possesses a repetoire of Future soothing items and retinue. Using his wonky collection of atrifacts and slaves, he has avoided death multiple times, and is obsessed with seeing the future.

>Daemons of Chaos
In a morbid mockery of the fabulous parties of the rich and powerful, these Daemons have unified under a "Ball of the Apocalypse", they waltz across the battlefield, Dancing and reveling in the terror they cause. They are led by a massive Daemon prince that had formerly been a rich noble of the Empire, who was known as a purveyor of splenderous parties.
>Empire
A lord of an estate near Nuln, he has funded many marvelous inventions in order to help secure his holdings. Lightning throwers, horseless carriages and all sorts of amazing weapons help keep back the ever increasing Beastman and Skaven attacks. But in his age, his paranoia is getting the better of him; His rule grows harsher, and guards grow in number as he believes that an Assassin is out to do him in.


I plan on ordering a lot of square bases soon, and I'd appreciate any links or advertisements for base sizes. Game wise, im also going to be focusing on a smaller, more elite army when ever possible.

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>>48218914
>>A Norscan Kingdom that has recently submitted to the gods, the King's four children each are heading towards a seperate god. When all four siblings march to war, they signify Chaos undivided.

As if siblings needed more reasons to fight. Sounds pretty cool. The Daemon idea too, especially if you can use greenstuff to give him 80's metal hair.

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>>48218914
>A Norscan Kingdom that has recently submitted to the gods, the King's four children each are heading towards a seperate god. When all four siblings march to war, they signify Chaos undivided.
Get chaos warriors on horseback that signify the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
That ride out on white, red, black, and pale horses.

>>48218914
Oops, forgot one:

>Dwarfs
A hold near the EIght Peaks that has come under hard times, as Skaven have begun to encircle their kingdom. Many of their holds Elders and nobility have been slain, leaving them bottom heavy and most of their leaders very young. Faced with the destruction of many of their traditions, and possibly even their history as a hold, they fight to preserve what is left. However, this does have a brightside; their lack of Elders have given arise to the employment of many new mechanisms and ideas that had been held back by their lords.

>>48218242
>>48218336
The events that would lead up to the crusades started with an at the time minor Sorcerer named Jaffar who united several desert tribes. There are unconfirmed rumors of him summoning daemons. He then expands his kingdom by capturing Al-Haikk, Copher, Martek, and Lashiek, major Arabyian cities and declaring himself the Great Sultan of Araby. He also enlisted Skaven to act as spies and assassins.

After an expedition into Nehekhara to gain magic scrolls, Jaffar invades Estalia based on lies told to him of Estalia planning on attacking him. Crusaders from Bretonnia and The Empire then retaliated, wiping out his forces in Estalia and counter-attacking Araby.

Jaffar planned to let the desert sun and raids wear down the crusaders but this plan was demolished by the crusaders being joined by local Arabyans who were sick of Jaffar's tyrannical rule, either aiding the crusaders or simply deserting. Jaffar was then killed at the battle of Al-Haikk.

At this point the morality of the conflict starts to become murky, Bretonnia considered honor to be upheld and struck their conflict with Araby from the books just like how Dwarfs remove their grudges once it's fulfilled. Crusaders from outside of Bretonnia didn't leave until a century later, their goals being to hunt down what remained of Jaffar's forces and take plunder. Some old world nobles joined in the crusades long after Jaffar's death such as Arnyld, a particularly infamous crusader for the purpose of plundering riches.

>>48218272
In what sense? The Crusaders invading the Levant, or Moslems invading modern day France? Either way, it's a very ignored period of WHF's lore that should've at least gotten a short story.

>>48219029
By the end of the crusades, Bretonnia likely has much better relationships with Araby than the Empire, and The Empire had brought back a lot of plunder from Araby. As of the crusades, there have not been major conflicts with The Old World and Araby. However, there was still bitterness, as is said, crusaders stayed long after removing Jaffar who attacked first and also inflicted their own cruelties on Araby. There hasn't been any major conflicts with the Old World and Araby since. The only conflicts of note are Sultan Daryus-e Quabir trying to launch a Jihad against the old world but not even reaching it, getting defeated at the Badlands and Abdul Al-Shar carving out his own kingdom in the Border Princes.

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>>48218914
>Lightning throwers, horseless carriages
So you're going to use WW2 tanks and halftrack historical models and use the stats of steam tanks or war altars?

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>>48219029
Huh. So who wants to make A army based around Aladdin now?

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>>48219029
Oh I'm well versed in the Crusades, I just mean I think it would have been a really good series to read. I'm rereading the Black Plague because I had a lot of fun reading it the first time around, dem characters man.

>>Bretonnia considered honor to be upheld and struck their conflict with Araby from the books just like how Dwarfs remove their grudges once it's fulfilled.

In the book I'll probably never complete, that was something I wanted to address. After their victory, an Inner Circle knight tries to shame a Bretonnian lord for leaving when there are still slaves out there to be rescued. The lord gets in his face and counts off all the things Bretonnia did, stating that the war wouldn't have started if it weren't for their lances, let alone won. He counters that the Imperial knights are the ones who feel guilty as their contributions paled in comparison and they have to make up for it by staying in the desert longer. They did their job and now they're going home.

>>48218955
As for the Norscan Kingdom, I already have the basics of the four siblings set up. Here's their names, so try to figure out which gods they are falling to: Lord Tyran, Sir Rhurdug the pure, Crown Prince Torvald, and Lady Sivessa. Their father is old and frail, yet is the only person capable of gathering them all under one purpose.
>>48218981
My only problem with that is the key word "Recent". They have only just begun to feel the boons of Chaos, but at their current rate, I could see them as a sort of Four Horsemen as a end game goal. Something to aspire to.

>>48219084
I was thinking a little bit more steampunk/Turn of the century than WW2 tech. Think stuff like Dishonored or WW1 rather than WW2

>>48219090
In my case, if I ever made an Araby army, I would set it in the crusade era as a force of locals in rebellion aided by crusaders, the crusaders would count as Mamelukes.

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>>48219179
>>Lord Tyran
Tzeentch.
>>Sir Rhurdug the Pure
Slaanesh.
>>Crown Prince Torvald
Nurgle.
>>Lady Sivessa
Khorne.

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>>48219220
Anon, I...

Really cant believe you got them all wrong.

>>48219267
:(

So what are their patrons?

>>48219179
>Slaanesh
Lord Tyran
>Nurgle
Sir Rhurdug the Pure
>Tzeentch
Lady Sivessa
>Slaanesh
Crown Prince Torvald

>>48219329
>Khorne
Crown Prince Torvald

Sorry, my mistake.

>>48219110
I don't know enough details (and I don't think the written fluff contains enough details) to know if Bretonnia contributed more to the war than The Empire did. I guess I had the idealistic view that Bretonnia was willing to bury the hatchet after killing off the big bad.

>>48219303
This guy:>>48219329 is on spot, execpt for two of them getting mixed up:

Lord Tyran Is influenced by khorne, and is twins with Sivessa

Rhurdug is in despair from allowing the gods to overcome their kingdoms old religion, and is held under Nurgles sway. He is also the most powerful bearuacrat in the kingdom.

Sivessa was hidden away in the catacombs and Archives that make up the ramshackle home of the kingdoms Scholars. Only Tyran knew of her till now, and was the only one to visit her. She is being led on by Tzneetch.

Torvald is the best known, most well loved by the people, and the first of the siblings to wed, earning him title of Crown Prince. He is the youngest, and holds the greatest revels. As you can tell Slaanesh. And his wife may or may not be a Daemonette.

What would you say is the lowest point level WHFB can be adequately played at? Is 1k the lower limit, or can we go lower?

>>48219384
The Empire was in the grip of on-again, off-again civil war. Only the Knightly Orders pledged their lances, though I'm sure a few State Troops went along for the ride but only as a token gesture by their Electors.

Bretonnia, on the other hand, fell hard on Araby and threw an entire generation at it. You see, the Errantry War isn't just a fancy name. It's the fastest way the King can summon an army as it's literally sixteen year olds throwing on their armour, grabbing their swords and riding their horses as fast as they can to the meeting place before they all make a beeline to the target. Then the rest of the more experienced knights follow. Baron Tybalt led an army overland through the area that would become the Border Princes, so I can only assume that was because it was too large to transport by ship.

So yeah, they contributed more than the Empire by a huge margin.

>>48219453
500 points. Of course you could always play skirmish.

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How come Fantasy never had an almost bukkake scene?

>>48219447
Oh, and here's the mini's I plan to base them off of:
Tyran will be a Exalted Hero of Chaos
Sivessa will be a MistWeaver from that new WHQ gane
Rhurdug will be a Plague Champion from Kings of War

My only problem is that I cant find a mini I like for Torvald. I want something Youthful, yet energetic.

>>48218914
Well, most infantry is on 20x20mm bases
Stuff like orcs, dryads and chaos warriors are on 25x25mm bases
Cavalry is 25x50mm
Lets see what else.. stuff like ogres, rat ogres and trolls are on 40x40mm bases
Chariots are either 50x75 or 50x100mm

>>48219600
>thick thighs ariel bukkake
10/10 would pay money to see

Does anyone have a collection of the information available about The Dark Beneath the World?

>>48220105
What are you, gay?

nah jk I want to impregnate Alarielle too

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>tfw have been making the warhammer fantasy threads and bumping them for the past month

>tfw this Friday leave for month long training and won't be able to even use my phone

>tfw afraid that the general will die and I'll come back to no warhammer fantasy lore friends

Reading warhammer fantasy novels and discussing lore with you guys has literally become my main hobby.

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>>48221323
>>general will die
Since when? I'm also a lorefag and I refuse to let it die and let the slav shit up everything.

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>>48221392
I'm just worried because I've seen it the board go almost 24 hours without the thread being around.
And when the times between threads get longer and longer it starts getting a big scary.

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>>48221445
The fact that it's still here should say something.

GENERAL DOES NOT SERVE
IT RULES

>>48217174
What do you guys think of "through the drakwald"? I played it and found it kind of weak, I mean, it was fun but not "that" interesting for an introduction to WFRP 2e.

I'm gonna initiate my players to WFRP 2e and I'm looking for a good, interesting module to start them off.

Do you have any module recommendation for first-time players to the system?

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>>48221555
Never played it, can you give us a rundown?

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>>"Sweet dancing Sigmar!" said Seneschal Helgart, taking his helmet off his head and holding it against his breastplate.
>>"Don't blaspheme!" replied Father Kruger.
>>Helgart nodded and made a small bow but could not take his eyes off the sight before him. These knights of the Grail, as they called them, were like rage and destruction, power and divinity. Everywhere the knights rode their enemies fell before them. Had Helgart not sworn an oath to see the Arabyans destruction he would have pitied them.
>>His attention turned to the lead knight's lance which tore through a mameluke's riverbeast shield. Only within the Inner Circle did he see in the best of times such precision. His fellows might have mocked their neighbours for their lack of discipline, their decorum and their dress. Helgart saw much more in these fleeting moments.
>>They were angels of a wrathful woman. The Bretonnians called her Ladrielle, their Lady of the Lake.
>>Helgart called her a woman scorned.

>>48221555
I wouldn't recommend any pre-generated adventure save for stealing ideas. Campaigns are always better when YOU write them. You take your players and their tastes into account. Even if you can't predict their behavior, which I admit is nearly impossible at times, it still adds a personal touch that no pre-gen can match.

>>48220144

The entry for the Shard Dragon in Monstrous Arcanum makes mention of it attacking white-bloated fungoid slugs that swim in underground seas.

>>48221583
I've no problem doing that in, let's say, pathfinder, because I come up with my own setting and I'm really confortable with the system, known it (well, dnd 3.5) for years.

Thing is, I'm relatively new at WFRP, and I freaking love it, so I want to change the usual pathfinder games into WFRP. But I'm not as confortable with the lore and to some degree the system. So I feel a module could make things more interesting for my players, since it'll have more details about the warhammer universe than what I could come up on my own (still reading through all the PDFs).

>>48221574
Basicly, Untergard, a middenland village, has been attacked by a horde of beastmen/chaos during the storm of chaos, but they managed to survive and hold off the invaders in an epic battle over the village's bridge.

Then, a couple weeks later, while they're celebrating, a beastmen scouting party comes in a crash the party. You then learn there's a horde of over 200 beastmen coming this way.

The adventure assumes you wanna help the villagers, and not save your skin, so the next step is abandoning the village and leading the villagers to Middenheim. So it's basicly an escort quest.

There's a couple encounter, and plotwists; also a subplot with a magic user that performs an evil ritual. I don't wanna say too much.

It's not bad, but I always found escort quests to be somewhat boring.

>>48221660
Sounds boring, it's relatively hard to RP travel.
Especially without handwaving it and breaking immersion.

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>>48221660
Well that's what you got us for, my nigga. I honestly can't recommend any pre-gen as I've never run one, but so long as it's simple then you can't go wrong. My first ever campaign took place in Rottfurt where the PC's had to expose a cult of Nurgle, but also found out about a warpstone mine that a Necrarch vampire was behind.

It didn't go the way I wanted it, but them's the breaks. For some reason my players ignored the homeless man with a giant scar across his face and the Witch Hunter, who had the same scar on his face, but the end result was still the same. Except the Witch Hunter burned at the stake.

In short, come up with an outline and throw it in this thread. Unless the slav is ruining everything then you should get a decent amount of feedback.

>>48217174
Just saying, but I think you should add this link to the header in every new thread.

This map is just incredible.

http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/shdmotwow-full.html

>>48221729
I want a scaled globe like this.

>>48221728
Thanks, I'll think of something and I'll do that. Still got about 3 weeks to prepare it, so it's plenty.

>>48221583
More of this fluff please

I like to think that during this first crusade, the Fury of the Knights supercharged their blessing and made them even more terrifying than normal, especially the Grail Knights. Also like to think it made them capable of feats they normally wouldn't be able to achieve like directly attacking cities, somehow. I think the first time they attacked Arabywas at Copher, and the fluff mentions them pulling down towers. The Arabians were ready to fight off an army of Knights, but weren't expecting what came off the ships that day.
>>48219497
At least one elector count was sick of the civil war and took a portion of his army into the crusades, according to the daemon rulebook.

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>>48221660
Once you've become acquainted with the setting it's one of the most satisfying to make your own.

I did one recently off the top of my head and my players were in love,
>traveling to the inn of one of the player's parent's
>it's in sylvania
>end up riding through a depopulated village
>meet a group at the inn that have been paid to map a "haunted" (abandoned) castle
>hire on
>village outside the castle is seemingly abandoned
>they try to raid the houses
>houses full of ghouls that attack them but won't go into the sunlight
>they move on to the castle
>one player and a DMPC go to second level to map
>one player and a DMPC go to the basement to map and come upon a split path, they split up
>when they meet back up the DMPC is pale as death and semi-silent
>player 2 comes back down to help and leaves the other DMPC upstairs
>when they all head upstairs the other DMPC is silent and pale as well
>they all hear dancing ball music from above them
>they go into the final level and find hundreds of fancy people dancing and feasting
>the DMPCs start dancing and feasting from the tables as well
>they accidentally run into one of the musicians and the music stops
>when the music stops they see that what they originally thought were nobles are emaciated ghouls wearing tattered finery
>the tables are piled high with dead peasants
>the DMPC friends they've been with for 3 hours now are feasting on bodies
>the music resumes
>everything goes back to being fancy
>they leave the castle
>as they leave they notice the sun is going down and ghouls are streaming from the peasant hovels around the castle
>they have to race the setting sun back to the original inn

Very little actual fighting and confrontation but it was one of the best RPs I've ever run.

I also found it super handy to start counting down from 5 in very tense situations to add a level of artificial stress to their actions.

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>>48221748
>>48221729
How much do custom globes cost?
Because I'd buy one of these.

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>>48221749
>>3 weeks
Bitch you better get used to much less than that. Some weeks I wake up after a night of drinking, my friends calling me four or five times to wake up, and ride the edge of my seat like a motherfucker. I feel like I work best under pressure, but roll20 makes it hard to improvise. How are you doing your game?

>>48221758
I made it up, but I can always make more.
Protip: Overwhelming anger is my favourite emotion.

>>48221762
shiiiiit son, that's a nice adventure. might steal it.

>>48221791
I remeber your other fluff on the crusade, anon, from a few months back. Very much enjoyed it

>>48221801
Dude definitely.

And again with the counting down thing, having them ride torn up horses with the cannibalistic peasants at their heels while having them make 2-3 very quick decisions really adds to the thrill.

>>48221816
I don't remember posting it, I was probably drunk when I did. A royal funeral, right?

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>>48221817
I used to have pic related, it really does add stress and helps with immersion.

Sadly I lost it, so I usually use a cellphone timer, or a countdown like you do. It's a really good trick.

>>48221817
>>48221801
I also had them retrieve a book that when examined,
> "It seems almost as if the binding is twisting as if it's alive, when you attempt to look directly at the book your eyes naturally seem to jump over it"
Insinuating the entire thing was due to chaos taint, which you could use to spread on to a further campaign.

And the horses they'd left outside had been sapped and were very weak from the oppressiveness of the castle.

Any little bit to make it creepier or add to the suspense is big; they maybe did one round of combat the entire RP (when they tried to go into the shacks during the day).

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>>48221791
Lately I've just been improvising, no notes, just a general idea of major plot points.

Was a time where I'd do miniatures of the dungeon though. For one specific module. It was cheap stuff, but it was better than a drawing. Really made for an interesting game, so sometimes preparation pays off.

Not saying I'm gonna go that far for that one, but I at least want some degree of preparation/quality.

>>48221828
Maybe a different anon, but I remeber someone was posting about a novel they will never write. One was about Jaffars right hand man who didn't really believe in the cause, and the Skaven considered assassinating him

>>48221816
1/2
>>"There are hundreds, no, thousands of slaves out there! Do you speak the words of your vows or do you actually mean-" Grand Master Leitvelt's words were interrupted by a mailed fist to his nose.The bone and cartilage crumpled beneath its onslaught.
>>"Don't you dare, don't you goddamn dare!" roared Lord Aladine. He stood over the now prone Imperial, his fists balled and his arms shaking with rage. "Don't you DARE look at me and speak such words. Where was your Empire when Estalia pleaded for aid? Did your Emperor send his warriors to aid his neighbour?"
>>Leitvelt god back on his feet, though he staggered for a moment, his hand held against his broken nose. Were this any other man his hand would have been on the handle of his sword, but he waited. He knew this was a long time coming.
>>"No! Your Empire is dying and dying, and yet you seek to cast your guilt on us? The arrogance!" The Bretonnian had his arms stretched out wide, looking at the vast expanse of the desert before him. "WE were here first. WE led the fight. WE liberated the Estalians and broke the Sultans armies. You were a token gesture. A party favour."

>>48221992
Okay, that was probably me. I remember a plotline like that.

>>48218524

Beastmen are top tier in 9th age. But that isn't saying too much because everyone else isn't far behind. Just an entire army of hard hitting ambushers/vanguards is difficult to deal with.

>>48221816
2/2
>>Aladine pat on the ground. "If there is guilt to be felt, it is yours. Pay for your own sins, we have paid for ours in our sons lives."
>>Aladine turned, his crimson cloak billowing in the hot wind. Leitvelt stood where he was, his pride injured. But his pride didn't matter. His body didn't matter. What mattered was that there were still Estalians, Tileans and Crusaders who were still bound to the lash of their slave masters.
>>But, more importantly, he burned because the Bretonnian was right. Despite his nation being older by nearly a millennia, having military and academic institutions, the feudal lord was right. The Empire joined the war as a gesture and nothing more. Its knightly orders would be reborn in the burning sands, their sins purged of arrogance and pride. They would be forgiven for their people's transgressions. Leitvelt hoped he could only forgive himself.

>>48221917
Improvising is good. Keep it up.
I used to use models for my game before everyone moved to different parts of the country. I still paint, in the hopes that we'll be close enough again. I feel they make the game a lot better.

>>48222012
>>got back on his feet
>>corrupt and dying
Oops.

>>48221323
>>48221392

Our love for Warhammer can never die.

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>tfw nobody ever wants to do a warhammer fantasy discussion skype group

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>GM for a group of friends
>they fuck up at every possibility and fail to follow simple clues
>tfw i have to spend a majority of our sessions improvising what happens next because of this
>tfw a complete trainwreck is painstakingly avoided every session

>>48222193
Stories?

>>48221648

I've wanted to make a new Dwarf army based on the idea of a clan of Underwater Miners who accidentally break into the Dark Beneath the World, but I can't find enough material on it to make it worthwhile without it coming across as just headcanon and magical realm.

>>48222336
>Dark Beneath the World
????

>>48222336
i was about to tell you to flip through the monstrous arcanum for entries on beasties of the deep but the other anon beat me to it

>>48222200
>checked

anyhow, im not very good at story telling so i dont think it would be very interesting

A lot of it has to do with being lackeys to a witch hunter in [x]burg and blowing their cover at the worst possible times
The world "subtle" is lost on them

>>48222419

There's about two references to it that don't go very deep.

>>48222418

There's a few oblique references that suggest that the interior of the Warhammer World might actually be hollow, or at least have a massive Underdark-esque setting deeper than the Skaven, Night Goblins or Dwarfs have dug.

The secret route the Dark Elves take to raid the Old World and bypass the High Elves is heavily implied to be part of it.

>>48208381
>>48216414

Cheers, going to have him remember his life and shout taunts in Classical at the PC's as he raises zombies against them. I'll give them all a strong green glow in their eyes and crevices to make it apparent.

Lets hope the PC's don't fuck up this encounter with unpredictable bullshit like they usually do.

>>48222336

As far as I'm aware, the Monstrous Arcanum is seemingly the only thing that has even hinted that something exists below the ground besides Dwarfs, Skaven, and maybe Goblins. Probably because the book is all about monsters.

>>48222450
Story teller as in making a post about it on here
im fine as a gm im told

>>48222454
>the Monstrous Arcanum is seemingly the only thing that has even hinted that something exists below the ground besides Dwarfs, Skaven, and maybe Goblins

Yeah, that's about the sum of it. One or two of the Gotrek books reference there being stuff deeper than even the Dwarf Holds go - and one of Nathan Long's Gotrek novels has something from the Dark take over a hold.

Surprisingly/depressingly the best material I can find to give me something to build on is actually the EoT/AoS stuff where they start talking about what lies at the heart of the Warhammer World.

>>48222479

I'm not sure AoS even goes into it much other than the core of the world still existing, it having a magical nature to it, and weapons being made of it.

>>48222418
AFAIK it'some sort of giant underground ocean.
Where a lot of monstrosities and cthulhu-esqe creatures live

>>48222479
>where they start talking about what lies at the heart of the Warhammer World.
A globe of magical metal?

I wonder if the globe was magical before the apocalypse and if it actually was the reason the old ones chose the place, maybe it's linked with the possibility of the geomantic grid

>>48222508

I could imagine it being magical in some way, as you said the geomantic grid was a thing.

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have you good gentlemen praised sigmar today?

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>>48222542
Only in the good old fashioned way.

>>48222497
>'m not sure AoS even goes into it much other than the core of the world still existing, it having a magical nature to it, and weapons being made of it.

That's the sum of it, but it's a start. And it gives my dwarfs a reason to try and mine for the center of the planet.

>>48222479
The dark elf books hint at a lost civilization in there which may or may not be the fishmen. I'm betting that some of the monsters and civilizations from the time of the old ones escaped the lizardmen armies and hid deep underground. There's also the elder dragons who sleep under the sea so that probably qualifiesbas the underdark as well
>>48222542 what mod is this? I actually like AoS and fantasy equally, would love to use these in custom

>>48222578

I could see stuff moving underground from when the Old Ones moved the Warhammer world closer to the sun.

>>48221555
Terror in Talabheim is my favorite campaign for WFRP 2e. None of that detective work nonsense (at least not when the story really gets going)

>>48222550
Myrmidia > Sigmar desu
>>48222578
radious I think. He literally used AoS units in the dorf roster before someone told him that it would get his stuff removed.

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>>48222596
>frogs fought eldritch abominations by turning up the thermostat
Kek

>>48222717

Kind of makes sense that some lifeforms would have only existed because of the current temperatures and conditions and couldn't adapt.

>>48222696
I would like a proper AoS mod though, even if just for custom battle. Stormcasts are just reskinned chaos warriors and bretonnian units

>>48222737
Just gonna stop you there. Don't post bait, everyone knows they're Space Marines.

How much could someone reasonably get for selling a fist-sized chunk of warpstone?

>>48222775

Which were created to try and capture the popularity of Chaos Warriors.

>>48222737
That'd require so much work you would better be waiting for a proper aos game at that point

>>48222801
Nope. Gav Thorpe himself said that he and other devs had been under pressure to create something like Space Marines in Fantasy for a long time. Bulky armour is the only real thing that's shared between Warriors and Sigmarines.

Sigmarines deep strike into battle. Most Warriors take the long way either on foot or by boat.

Sigmarines can't truly die and are brought back after being defeated. Only a few Warriros have been brought back from the dead as it's easier and more efficient to just wait a few years for a new generation to crop up.

>>48222801
Pls don't

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>>48222823
And there goes the thread

Post elves

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>>48222857

>>48222780
A lot of warp tokens, yes-yes.

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>>48222867
In Imperial Crowns Skaven fucking shit.

>>48222823

It's funny you bring up Thorpe and then don't acknowledge his own words where he says that Space Marines were partly created to attempt and capture the appeal of Chaos Warriors

>I was… surprised. Surprised by how bold GW had been in shaking things up. I was also not surprised in some respects. For example, the Stormcast Eternals. Even when I had been working in the Design Studio the idea of being able to translate the appeal of Space Marines into the fantasy setting had been something of an ambition, if not a specific objective. (Ironic considering Space Marines were partly created to capture some of the appeal that Chaos Warriors had in Warhammer Fantasy Battles at that time!)

I also don't see anything about pressure there.

>Bulky armour is the only real thing that's shared between Warriors and Sigmarines.

And the fact that they're stronger than normal humans because they've been empowered by their respective god(s).

>Sigmarines can't truly die and are brought back after being defeated.

Except they can permanently die.

Honestly not even sure why you brought that up when Space Marines don't come back either, unless you count a worthy Marine managing to cling on to life long enough to be interred within a Dreadnought.

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>>48222857

>>48222889
Business pressure. Don't be thicker than normal.

Sigmarines have no place in this thread. There is an Age of Sigmar general somewhere on /tg/, I suggest you go there.

>>48222875
A lot. I wouldn't say any particular number but easily in the hundreds. But if it were an NPC in my campaigns I'd try to lowball you first. A fist sized chunk could easily go over a thousand crowns.

If you guys want to talk about Stormcast eternals please go to the Age of Sigmar General. The hate for them is virtually nonexistent at this point there

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>>48222857

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>>48222951

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>>48222960

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>>48222965

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>>48222978

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>>48223003
What does Morathi smells like?

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>>48223017
Incest.

>>48222801
By that logic I'd be as close if not closer to my more distant ancestor than my closest one.
Shit doesn't work that way.

>>48222911
I'm going to lowball the fuck out of them then. The buyer is a Stephen Fry's Lake Master-like character, and money wasn't the primary motivation of the warpstone.

Having him just reach into a bag of money and throw a few indeterminate handfuls of Crowns at them should work, maybe 20-30 gc each.

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>>48222857

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>>48223017
She smells all things wrong and foul with the world, but with a covering of roses.

>>48222889
>>48222823
Never understood why there was so much butthurt on both sides of the "they're fantasy space marines vs they're totally not space marines" debate.its pretty clear that the stormcasts are a fantasy analogue to space marines. So what? Pretty much everything in 40k except tyranids and tau were just what fantasy had but in space. Sure there were years and a few editions for more unique identiy from each other(particularly the eldar and elves) but the point still stands. GW Making analogue races between THEIR OWN SETTINGS is nothing new. Stormcasts eternals are space marines in the same way Orcs are Orks, elves are Eldar, and chaos daemons are literally the exact same chaos daemons.

>>48223034
How does Malekith even fuck Morathi in that armor? I thoughy he's fully encased in it darth vader style. That, and even if he takes it off he's all scarred and crispy

>>48223247
Probably the same way he uses the washroom. A hatch and a lot of excruciating pain. He can take off his helmet as there was a short story where he did that, making Morathi feel sorry and angry about his condition.

>>48223121
>So what?
They fail at the translation because they end up repetitive and overdesigned while bringing all the downsides of having space marines taking the spotlight of a setting on top of representing the epitome of late-Kirby's studio at GW: Taken over by businessmen and suits disconnected with the creative process.

Go look at blanche's drawings as he tried to save the concept, and count how many details were changed or removed making the models more in line with the idea of fast paced CAD sculpting or to make them even more similar to marines.

>>48218590
>>48218795
I agree with the first guy: I feel like magic would be more accepted in Estalia, because it's probably SAFER too. Remember, Estalia is farther from the poles, which tends to make for weaker but more stable magic.

I could see the Myrmidians having a secret order to hunt down rogue warlocks who dabble in the Ruinous Powers.

Is there any adventure to be had in Lustria beyond "Kill lizards get money?" I know that the Lizardmen pretty much hate any interlopers in their lands but my group are the sort of bleeding hearts that would want to make nice with them. I know that the Lizardmen did treat with the elves at least a few times, would they be receptive to a ragtag group of weirdos (mostly dorfs) looking to do good and adventure some? Or would it be right to the poison blowdarts and snakes?

>>48224369
I'm sure there's plenty to be had. The PC's could be contacted by a skink and sent into areas where a group of Saurus would either fail or just alert all their enemies, and skinks are too weak for the task.

For example; go into an old temple/laboratory and expel the druchii rooting around in there. Recover an artifact from their sorceress and if possible, take her prisoner and bring her back to the skink alive.

>>48224369
Pirazzos Lost Legion got hired by lizards in the middle of the jungle to go fight the undead on the vampire coast, so lizards refrain from killing every rare once and a while.

It's hard to do Lustria without the lizardmen, because they roam the whole damn continent. You could have the party stumble onto a cave like the ones they have in Naggarond, where great seas exist under the world. Old lizardmen ships nearby could be the start of an under-adventure, remember, the caves in lustria have more holes, so a whole underground ocean lit by what feeble sunlight trickles in would be a cool image. Ancient cities from unknown civilizations could also be included at any point.

>>48224369
Have em start a coffee/tobacco /chocolate plantation. You can have quests to clear jungles of hostile megafauna so you can farm safely, and negotiate/trade with lizardmen for the land and maybe even excess seasonal skink laborers.

Why loot when you can create wealth?

>>48221555
The sequel adventures are pretty good, although it makes the death of any character that survives the Middenheim chapter extra harsh because the mark of unity won't transfer.

>>48222454
The first Thanquol book mentions an ocean below the skaven tunnels.
>>48222479
That was more of something roughly an insect equivalent to Dragon Ogres buried under the dwarfhold.

So, can people confirm something for me?

To get even petty divine magic you need 1100 XP to finish the Initiate tree, and then 100 to start Priest, and then 100 for Mag1, 100 for Arcane Language, 100 for channelling and 100 for the Petty Magic (Divine) talent right?

And none of the channeling, Mag1, arcane Language, or Petty Magic skills/talents has any utility until you have ALL of them together? (Well, maybe arcane language has some use) and then mage sight takes another 100.

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>>48223121
>Never understood why there was so much butthurt on both sides of the
Because they destroyed an amazing setting that had been around as long as most players.

Literally everything they do makes people butthurt at this point.

It's like when one of your old friends slowly gets more annoying to the point that even them doing normal things like breathing pisses you off.

>>48225195
It was only after the old world was totally ded that i stumbled upon the WFRP games and realized just what an amazing setting they nuked to make their spesshereen expys. Like why not just find a place in the Old World for your silly armor angels?

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>>48217174
I have a quick question. Is Dwarf Fortress undead just as bad as WHFB undead?

>>48224894
Correct. This ain't D&D.

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>>48224369
there're plenty of examples of paceful interactions between lizards and other races in their oldest armybook (5th ed); as long as the invaders don't plan to touch their shit they usually get ignored.
you have to remember that the lizardmen don't want to trade most of the time, they don't care about gold as a resource for example (and don't understand why the other races value it so much considering they don't use it properly), reasons for interactions may be a slann willing to ask certain questions (it looks like some of them either don't know how shit is going around in the world or want to see how the races advanced their perceptions, for example asking about means of reproduction, distance of continents or the appearance of signs of sotek), if not for informations they can ask for help, we have examples of lizardmen asking humans to use their ships to catch dark elf pirates or arabians and lizards cohordinating an attack into a nehekarian tomb to retrieve stuff (riches for humans, a slann's bone for the lizards).
on top of that any extravagant plot may be a part of the great design a slann wants to see happening and you could have your dorfs marked as blessed by the old ones and escorted, perhaps with curious skinks asking questions along the way considering the slann barely care enough to explain shit to them.

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>>48225261
Because Tom Kirby.

For some godforsaken reason they left a half-human clone of what aliens created in the image of a horrible retail manager in charge of everything for like 10 years.

>Didn't understand the playerbase
>Didn't understand the lore
>Didn't understand how the game was actually played
>Wanted "bigger and better things"
>went on expensive vacations and was never in the office on the company dime
>sued companies for selling bits on their websites
>sued companies for selling models that slightly resembled models they had never even made but had made rules for
>sued companies for making pauldron bits
>lost every lawsuit
>shut down community forums and avenues of feedback from players
>etc...

His last move as boss was to nuke WHFB for his pet project he dreamed up himself, AoS, and then vacated the position and left an actual human in charge.

The new guy is alright but he's managing a shitshow with x-wing overtaking 40k and AoS selling like cowpatties.

It's the equivalent of a ship captain running into an iceburg and making his first mate the new captain once the ship starts sinking and then jumping onto a lifeboat while yelling "the captain always goes down with his ship".

>>48224014
nobody expects the estalian questioners

>>48222136
Because every single skype/discord group eventually turns into an attentionwhore circlejerk

>>48218501
>>48218520
The Brunner Books gave Tilea a particularly nasty Solkanite inquisition. (in Remas of all places, one of the two Myrmidian birthplace cities) That could fit into Estalia too.

Though that would require treating good ol Solkan and the gods of Order as canon.

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>>48225767
>Though that would require treating good ol Solkan and the gods of Order as canon.

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>>48217174

Where should I start looking if I want to read up on WHFB divinity and deities? Trying to fluff up an army and could use some inspiration for the origins.

In particular, I'm looking for:
Manann, Empire God of the Deeps
Stromfels, Manann's Devil-equivalent
Mathlaan, Elven Poseidon
The Underdark, mentioned earlier in this thread
Anything at all on the Old Ones
The relationship between the Old Ones and the 'God' survivor plotline that End Times introduced.

I've never read through any of the RP books, do any of them go into great depth?

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Got a stupid question. Why do wizards only pursue only one lore of magic?

>>48222136
Look, it's fun to talk about Bretonnians all the time here, because as an anon no one calls me out for focusing almost exclusively on that.

In a Skype group, I would become 'that Bretonnian guy,' no matter how much other discussion I took part in. And it would be a lot harder to keep up discussion in a 24/7 chat than it would be on an imageboard thread.

>>48228372
Trying to pursue multiple tends to lead to insanity and falling to the Ruinous Powers if you're a human.

>>48224369
There are other groups in Lustria, you know. Colonists from various parts of the old world, amazons, and a few undead and pirates.

>>48223291
I've never actually seen Blanche's drawings of Sigmarines. Could you share some? I'm curious to see how more fantasy they could look.

>>48228372
the elves describe humans incapable in mastering more than one lore in the same way they can't walk in 2 opposing direction, it's both an innate limit and a tradition for the purpose of making magic easier to teach

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Not sure if this has been posted, but CA have teased Malagor, Markus Wulfhart and the Beastmen for Total War: Warhammer on their twitter.

>>48229459
Cool, Malagor and Khazrak are my favorite two beastmen lords, though the Brass Bull is cooll amd Molghur is kinda okay.

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>>48222911

>Business pressure. Don't be thicker than normal.

I don't see any of that, I don't see Thorpe saying that those involved with the business side of things came down cracking whips and demanding a Space Marine like army. Fantasy already had that in the Chaos Warriors who were for the most part one of the most popular armies. The only difference is that they couldn't be marketed as the "good" guys.

I see more of it being something of a holy grail, to be involved in the creation a Fantasy army that was as popular as the Space Marines in terms of players, sales, and being known outside of the game.

>>48223036

Just trying to say that shoving your fingers in your ears and trying to pretend that their aren't similarities between the two, even if the Stormcast may draw more from Space Marines, doesn't mean that the similarities don't exist. Seriously the only reason it's even an issue is because there are Fantasy players who hate the Stormcast because they're interwoven with AoS and those same Fantasy players or others hate Space Marines because they put 40k on top and shit all over Fantasy in terms of sales.

>>48223291

Well if this isn't just filled to the brim with the usual memes about GW. Kirby, businessmen running the design studio, and the devious CAD.

Blanche's designs for the Stormcast were nice, but they're also all over the place because they were in all likelihood concept art and not him trying to save anything. The concepts got passed along and were changed either because the sculptors made a change or changes were made so the things could actually being created as more than one off models.

You want to know how I know the above is a possibility? It's the process they described for the Silver Tower models. Blanche did concept art for the Chaos barbarian, the elf wizard, and one of the Tzeentch Acolytes. Most of the details for the first and third made it through to the models, but the elf wizard was changed in minor ways by the sculptor.

>>48230140
I usually am not the hugest Blanche fan, and outright hate sigmarines, but that's REALLY damn good art.

>>48230140
We're watching you... scum.

>>48229459
Pffft. Giant man beasts? That's more ridiculous then giant rat people! They dont exist!

Is roadwarden the best starting career for WFRP 2nd ed?

>Get a light warhorse
>Get a fucking 200 crown gun
>Be a fucking wilderness sherrif, fuck up bandits and goblins with your other roadwarden bros
>Do literal drivebys

Who needs pistoleers desu

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>>48232164
Uhhhh beastmen are probably the best known threat in the entire empire, even higher than greenskins.

And they are the one scapegoated (Heh, goated) for Skaven attacks to keep panic low.

>>48233405
So wait, if beastmen hate any semblence of order, how come they have Shamans?

>>48233750
They're more chaos sorcerors than amber wizards.

(And honestly "Beastmen hate all organization and all structures except mysteriously chariots" is kinda fucking annoying.

>>48233750
>>48233868
I always imagine that you can handwave away any and all plot holes WRT chaos with 'chaos is the antithesis of all rules and order; its own included.'

>>48233868
Hey man, Chariots are cool. So is beer and Axes.

I agree though, Beastmen seriously need a face lift in the fluff dept. They need more to them than simply "Hurr durr poopsmithing unga bunga"

>>48233750
Shamans are the antithesis of the priest of other gods - they don't actually do much leading among the herd.

>>48234012
they do have more to them

ooga booga herdstone rituals

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>>48234012
I want beastmen with fuckhuge greatbows fired Dark Souls Dragonslayer Style, just made out of huge horns and whole yew saplings.

Also I wish that that "Ungor Sword" came in Gor and bestigor sized versions with gor and bestigor sized arms because that basic "Fable cleaver" sorta blade is my favorite.

>>48234050
So, lets see here, what are the main tenets of Beastmen:
>Rape
>Pillaging
>Getting drunk
>Occasional fights

They just feel so shallow. What could we add though?

>>48234108
They resent human privilege.
Sigmarite doctrine demands mutants be purged; as near-human outcasts they are all victims of Imperial society by accident of birth.
They Dindu Nuffin

>>48234108
ritual sacrifice

They are still creatures of chaos, after all. Those shamans have to be doing something. What's good about beastmen is they're more of an open book, without much tying you into specific choices. They're the feral counterpart to the wood elves Fey, and that's about all the info you get.

>>48234108
Coprophagia

>>48234191
>>48234186
>>48234183
>>48234108
>>48234050
>>48234034
>>48234012
>>48233979
Im still confused on how the fuck the Beastmen are able to keep up a population. From their fluff, it seems that Beastmen either come from Beastman rape or parents throwing their mutant children into the woods. As far as we know, there aint any Beastwomen, so they must focus a lot on getting laid. However, it is shown time and time again, that Beastmen are a laughable army. The Empire militia's easily hold them off, Bretonnians stomp them, Warriors of Chaos amd Skaven Enslave them, Orcs & Goblins murder them, Ogres eat them, and Elves kill them when ever found. Seriously, how the fuck do they even exist?

>>48234311
>trying to apply sensible logistics to WH

Come now, anon, you should know better.

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>>48234311
There are beastwomen though. They show up in one of the Gotrex and Felix stories.

>She doubted she or [her child] would have survived if she had not encountered the beastwomen in the forest; if they had not taken her in and guarded her and fed her. She remembered them as being oddly shy and gentle compared to the gors and ungors.

>>48234334
I know, but still, they at least pretend to some degree. At least the Orcs sorta just pop out of the ground, but with beastmen, where do they even come from?

>>48234311
Dark forest ritual magics or some such. Fuck a tree and some months later an infant will tumble out from beneath the roots wailing and howling.
Or maybe they grow out of swamps and shed their gills and swimming tails like tadpoles before growing into bull frogs.

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>>48234311
>>48234334
>>48234350
Of course "Shy and Gentle" is all relative.

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>>48234311
Here's where we slap WHFB's now cooled corpse on the slab and open her up for a dissection.

Historically, the original run of Beastmen that GW produced were actually leftovers from their prior contract with either Chaosium or Avalon Hill, whoever produced Runequest at the time; as they were really just rebranded Broo.

A famous Rune-Quest monster roughly analagous to Beastmen, but notable in that it can reproduce by copulating with damn near anything; particular Broo even being supernaturally potent enough to impregnate such things as men, rocks, trees, piles of dirt, ect.

Take a look at these minis; recognise any remote ancestors of familiar Beastmen minis?

>>48234381
Yeah, but who the hell is going to raise a infant in a tribe of Beastmen?

>>48234484
the beastwomen?

>>48234530
You know, I would love to actually see a portrayal of Beastmen with a Native American feel; Less Redheaded step child of Chaos, but more of a rugged and adaptable kind. Not the whole "At one with nature" crap of course, thats wood elves, but almost Tauren like, you know?

>>48234604
>Let's portray the alcoholic rapebeasts as Native Americans

t. /pol/

>>48234636
Well anon, Im not saying they should be rape beasts. Maybe they're a herd of beastmen that god captured by DarkElves long ago, and brought to Naggaroth. However, they escaped and fled into the inner continent, and have adapted to the Plains. With no towns not filled with Dark Elves or pissed off Chaos Worshippers, they took up a nomadic life style. Not every tribe has to be Murderhobos.

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>>48234604
Tauren are gay son.

Beastmen represent the savagery of nature in man; grown unchecked and warped by the powers of Chaos, they cast off the vestiges of their humanity and retreat into the primeval night of the deepest Drakwald.

Beware the woods.

>>48234689
Except they do. It's the fundamental difference between furries and werebeasts.

The former are animals made men. The latter are men made animals.
Like >>48234771 says. Beastmen, like werewolves, are about the savage and primal nature of man let wild. Chaos is the Id run wild, and Beastmen are basically our most basic animal instincts run wild.

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Hi, Oldhammer guys! I'm painting up a 4th edition era Empire army and I'm looking for a reference for these Marauder flagellants.

I vaguely remember seeing a picture of them fighting skeletons, with trees in the background.

I've look through all of my old books and can't find it. Do you have it saved by any chance or know which book its in?

I missed AoS Goblin question bro in the last thread, when they asked about if Daemons have personalities, but here it is.

Daemons are created out of the energy of the Chaos God who birthed them. Getting into specifics, Chaos Gods are technically gigantic colossal collections of all of the raw magic that pooled around them and became like the core. Souls are magic, which is why Chaos Gods and Daemons can eat souls. But being swirling masses of souls isn't a static thing, nor is it enough.
Like a gigantic cloud of energy, it shoots out other energy from time to time. Chaos Gods can also use their energy intentionally, which they use to shape the Warp magics that are too rigid to generally use as part of their "body" into their Realms.

Now back to the original, point, all Daemons that align to one of the four Chaos Gods are thoughts. When a mortal has a thought, they create a Daemon. But these are generally generic thoughts, the stuff of Chaos Undivided which is either short-lived or becomes prey for the powerful entities within the Warp. Like producing a single sterile fly on the planet earth, it'll be dead soon and isn't important enough to notice although it will probably become prey for something.

When a Chaos God has a thought however, they create a Daemon. Usually this is intentional, but Slaanesh and Tzeentch are always thinking and thus always creating. By contrast, Khorne creates armies and Nurgle creates populations but aren't constantly popping out Daemons.

>>48234995

These Daemons, who began as a thought, have a mind of their own. But they're pretty set in the ways of whatever kind of thought that birthed them. A Daemonette of tender passions will usually not be much of a fighter, and instead waits to be summoned by a Warrior or a Dark Elf on a lonely night to spend painting skinned slaves in colored salts or massaging their (temporary) master with organs that shouldn't exist outside Slaanesh's mind. By contrast, if Slaanesh was thinking about his Mary Sue dancing Daemonettes cutting Khorne's to ribbons, they'll be fighters born and spend their existence in a dance waiting for their chance to command the attention of everyone as they gut some Bloodletters.

Daemons who please their creators are promoted, like Slaanesh's being allowed to drive the fun chariots. Those who don't are, with a thought just like what created them, rendered into energy within their master again.

When a Daemon dies, its up to the Chaos God who created them whether or not to resurrect them. Generally the Chaos Gods don't, that's something only really for Daemons created intentionally like a Greater Daemon but there are exceptions, like Unit Champions and anything that is allowed to have a mount. So technically, Daemons are just as mortal as mortals in that they can be consumed by a Chaos God upon their death.

>>48234366
"There are as many Elves as the plot demands."

-Gav Thorpe

Seriously, GW has absolutely no thought about that kind of thing. Priestly did, but the current guys? They just want it to be more anime, and don't want anything they don't think is interesting to even exist let alone be written about.

>>48234311
It works better when you go with the fluff that has a huge world with many billions of humans in the empire.

Beastmen are basically rape machines that wipe out small villages all the time and peasant babies changed evil by warpstone left in the woods.

When you use the fluff that has a relatively small world and population it falls apart.

>>48234410
I wish we had better alternative models for females to mix in with males.

Someone has to make decent female Skaven proxy eventually. The ordinary Skaven, and the bloated titty monsters.

Does Raging Heroes take requests? Maybe we can petition some proxy models for Beastwomen and some skeletons and zombies in medieval dresses?

>>48234689
Any tribe that made it down past Naggaroth would be Dino-food pretty quick if Pygmies, terrifying wildlife, Norscan Amazons, Vampire Pirates and Old World Conquistadores didn't get them first.

You seem to misunderstand the nature of the Warhammer world; it deals in ptolemaic absolutes of light and darkness; searing and uncompromising, and Chaos creatures carry in them the seed of destruction, rapine, nihilistic all-consuming anger, and a strange lust for self-annhialation even as they strive for immortality.

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>>48234366
>At least the Orcs sorta just pop out of the ground,
>Implying

There are female orcs in bloodbowl and half-orcs in the old fluff.

While they hint at porting over the fungi-meme from 40k they never explicitly state it.

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>>48235067

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>>48235057
>pygmies

Is this really a thing?

>>48234771
>>48234813
Well, to be fair, I was trying to come up with a way to make them more intresting than them being just being a bunch of losers who get shat on by everyone, and whose characters have the depth of a shallow puddle.

Of course there is value in the primary concept of them being a bunch of crazy, rapist beasts. Them being a sort of anti-thesis to order, and showing the true nature of man are a pretty good representation of Chaos. But in the end, I feel like that just subsumes everything else. But I also hate how they seem to be constantly shat upon as a faction. I'll admit, that their rage is a central part of their character as a faction, and perhaps I went a little far in my attempt to mangke them into somethig else.

But, I think the beastmen are best looked in this light: They are the spurned, the revenge hungry, the Redheaded step child of the world. Everyone loathes them, Chaos does not bother to even gaze upon them, and they are surronded in a hostile world that holds no love for them. All they have is Spite to fuel them, and the Herd of those like them. But when they get the chance, they maul who ever they can, in a bloody tyriad of pent up hate. Them representing just beasts or the warping of Chaos are all just tenats to their overall theme of bestial hatred at Order, at Chaos, at everything, like a abused and mistreated animal, that because they have been shown nothing but malice and brutality, that is all they have, along with what instincts nature has left them.

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>>48235067
I would like to see orc women in fighting ranks, participating in their favourite pastime and to get enough influence to get a spouse of sorts

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>>48234311
>Seriously, how the fuck do they even exist?
They're like the cancer of the Old World. Wherever the corruption of chaos festers there are gonna be Beastmen soon enough.

At least that's how I like to think about it.

Beastmen coming to Total War: Warhammer.

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>>48235359
I wish GW still made female orc models, and not just for bloodbowl.

The half-orc models were kinda shit though, basically the same as hobgoblins.
Human bodies with ugly faces.

>>48235410
Cathay and Nippon really have a lot of Beastmen.

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>>48235410
>There are more beastmen than almost every other faction put together
What the actual fuck

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>>48234311
Beastmen can reproduce normally it's mentioned several times in their rulebook. They make a distinction between regular beastmen and turnskins, the ones mutated from human parents that are much rarer. Beastmen babies are probably much more developed than human babies and are able to travel with the tribe at a young age, like most wild animals are. Rape babies are probably very rare because few human females would be able to handle the exposure of the wild and I don't see beastmen wasting their resources to take care of delicate humans just to have one baby.

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>>48235476
Rape machines and mutant babies. I'm surprised that there's a lot of them in the Southern pole. It makes sense to me that there would be a lot of them up north, but does anyone live in the South Pole?

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>>48235155
1985 Citadel Pygmies sculpted by the great ancestors Alan and Michael Perry themselves.

They may or may not be in cahoots with the Lizardmen.

I know this is quite an outdated thing to ask for but I just updated my computer and lost my AB 2.2 crack. Does anyone have it?

>>48235538
Horrible amphibious Penguin and Leopard Seal Beastmen, I presume.

>>48235538
>>48235564
There's a second warp-gate on the south pole.

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>>48235564
That makes sense.
>>48235574
I know that but who lives there?

>>48235574
Aye, and it may be greater even than the northern one; it's just so isolated from the rest of the world.

From an aerial view that map >>48235410
makes quite clear the impending doom of the world and it's inevitable fall to chaos.

Not saying I thought the end times worked out well though.

>>48235591
No one lives there, the whole place is just full of beastmen. The only time the South Pole is ever explored, the beastmen resembled daemons and weren't tainted with the weak forms of man.

>>48235650
>the beastmen resembled daemons
They already have goat hooves and horns in what ways could they look like daemons even more?

>>48234771
So what is happening in this picture? People and animals mutating into the first Beastmen or what?

>>48235650
>Beastmen
>Cut out the man part
>???

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>>48235452
http://russian-alternative.ru/news_events/the_furious_orcgirlz/

>>48235452
What if they do? What if all warhammer fantasy orcs and goblins are in fact females, and snot-lings are the men?

>>48235678
>>48235747
GW writing, anons.

Tell, don't show. Only show if its something that goes at the centerpiece of an army.

>>48235738
Something along those lines; I suppose when the winds of magic ebb one might get close enough to a warp gate to even live to see it; but then your luck runs out, you are too close to the epicenter of the burst and your body and mind are ripped apart or rendered unrecogniseable by the mutagenic powers of pure creative potential.

>>48235794
I thought so.
>>48235793
Thanks for reminding me.

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>>48235783
Then this bit of fluff gets a VERY different context.

>>48235747
It means that they have no man ancestry. They are in fact penguins and seals that where mutated in to manlike shapes.maybe

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>>48235763
Well Zog me, Gitz with Titz.

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>>48235855

>>48235067
Mushrooms in fall build up the wall

I swear i read that about orcs in the empire somewhere but i cannot for the life of me remember where

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>>48235926
There's also one BRB that mentions a single line calling them spreading from the old ones as "spore".

But also that was from a brief phase when GW was trying to kinda merge the settings.

And also it's hard to contradict tons of fluff bits talking about half orcs with 1-2 lines over 2 books.

And I'm pretty sure at least one Empire BL book implied townsfolk being raped by greenskins.
I used to have a screenshot of the paragraph because we're talked about it before but I can't seem to find it now.

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Anyone know if this would work as a Shrine Of Temptation (Slaanesh chariot) in 9th Age? Because I'm having a hard time finding a decent proxy because Hellflayer Chariots kind of look too boring, and this looks perfect.

I'm just worried its too big.

>>48235168
There are plenty of Beastmen in Ind, which is apparently a chaos cult infested hellhole.

Not hard to imagine some Tiger Headed Beast-king holding his twisted court decked out in pillaged finery in a ruined temple courtyard deep in the jungle.

Flanked on all sides by his attendants - men with the features of apes and great cats, vultures and hyaenas, acompanied by human dacoits and cultists who act as their Beast-Sultan's footmen.

Warhammer fantasy is a big world.

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>>48235972
I have this.

Part of the reason I think GW retconned this isn't making all Orcs into spore-apes who scratch their balls and shit to breed, but because they wanted the only tribesmen of note to be even more speshul snowflakes than they already are. Because Go Chaos Or Go Home.

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>>48235972
They've retconned things much more integral to the fluff than orks sexually reproducing, like Dark elves worshipping slaanesh and the lizardmen and slaan being different races.

>>48235860
>>48235747
Pic related. Thats the only real description we get of southern beastmen. I don't think penguin and seal beastmen were ever mentioned in any actual fluff, thats just a meme.

Will GW hold anymore official Fantasy events or tourneys, or will it all be Age of Sigmar from here on?

>>48236178
Probably AoS from here on out. With the point release though, its really not a bad game. The joke rules got removed and pretty much every unit from fantasy, even named characters, has rules. you totally can use legacy units to recreate battles from the world that was, its even encouraged. From what i've seen on the AoS generals, Bretonnia actually became a top tier army, and Tomb kings have some of the most OP units, especially the necrosphinx. If you can get over the butthurt of "muh setting got nuked for sigmarines" then you can play with all of your old models without issue.

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It might be my goto plan but why not set fire to the forests to kill beastmen? The trees will grow back eventually, and I for one wouldn't miss those trees.

>>48236093
So where the fuck were these in End Times? Where the fuck are these in AoS?

GW literally wrote the best Beastmen ever all for the purpose of giving Archaon a visual peptalk, and nothing else.
I'm SO. FUCKING. SICK. OF ARCHAON.

>>48236340
Tomb kings and bretts aren't even fucking sold anymore.

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>>48236340
>world that was
That will never not piss me off to read. I think its the first time the word "triggered" applies to me.
They never even fucking named our setting, and the term used to refer to it is so blase and dismissive.

>>48236340
But why would we play AoS with points when 9th Age is an objectively better balanced game that also has rules for all the old models?

>>48236340
yeah, I'm just wondering how to base my units. I like circle bases for some reason, but I wouldn't mind being able to play old fantasy battle 8th edition with my army if I find a group that favors that.

But if I'm only going ot be playing Fantasy with friends, might as well base circle since anyone playing Fantasy won't be 'official' anyway.

Right?

>>48221729

my god

>>48236408
It;s not possible to use the fantasy ruleset on round bases.

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>>48236408
Wrong.

Fantasy literally requires square bases, its how the game works.

You, full stop, cannot play Fantasy or 9th Age with round bases. The models have to rank up with each other, and base contact only works in four directions.

That's why so many people flipped over the round bases. There's absolutely no reason to ever use them, they provide no benefit and many people really hate how models look when they're staggered because you can't rank them. Round bases are only for skirmish games, AoS is the first wargame trying to make round bases work but that's mainly because it was built around the idea of small forces and getting people to gradually buy more without concern for the endgame result clusterfuck.

>>48236408
You can play AoS on square.

You cannot play WHFB on round.

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>Round bases
>Destroying the time-honored tradition of unit filler

Games Workshop hit rock bottom with that one.

I wonder Beastmen will be handled in Total War Warhammer...

CA has done an excellent job in both battle and campaign, in terms of uniqueness to there races, but Beastmen seems to be completley different then any other race. Hiding in the forest and all that jazz.

>>48236598
Maybe you don't actually control territory? You just fuck stuff up and retreat back to forest tiles that are neutral ground just for you. Rinse/repeat until you get a big enough force to completely eliminate a faction.

>>48236598
Especially when other races literally can't enter the deep forests on the campaign map (Or can only pass under them if Greenskins or Dwarfs)

>>48236598
>>48236632
I figure they'll probably be like the chaos warriors, possibly with worse in-battle units but better overworld abilities (Faster horde growth, a stance that combines raiding, ambush, and encampment while stationary in light forest, some sorta abilities like that)

>>48236492
Unit fillers can aslo be done with round bases senpai.

>>48236671
How? They don't have ranks, you're just using an empty base. It defeats the purpose.

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>>48235009
>>48234995
Thank you so much!

Also wow, that adds a whole other layer of complexity to Daemons. From the sound of things, and from 40k, Daemons always came off as a endless horde of same faced mooks that come in four different flavors. This almost makes Daemons kinda relatable in the sense that each Daemon has it even worse than mortals; There is no afterlife for them, so they're under constant watch and under constant pressure to please their gods, less they are disraveled with a mere thought. However, this only fyels my curiosity; Are things like the Elven and Human Gods particullarly strong Daemons? How do Daemons act when left in a absence of enemies? When under the banner of Chaos undivided, how do the armies of Chaos treat each other? Do Daemonettes and Bloodletters revel together in the excessive slaughter of enemies? Do Plaguebearers get complimented on a particularly mutagenic by Horrors? How does one become a Daemon prince of Chaos undivided? What are Daemon Princes' in this scenario? Do they just get free reign to do as they please?
Also, im a little late, but what about beastmen? Are they just mutants, or a whole different race? Are there different breeds? Like the ones in Ind? Are there actual female Beastmen, or is it just rape? Because I cant imagine them getting to be that big in numbers via rape alone. Do Beastmen actually take care of their children, or do they follow the Skaven parenting guide of "lol, good luck you little shits, survival of the fittest"? Where do they get their weapons and armor? Do they make it? Where do beastmen live when not fighting? Are they nomadic? What is the thought process of a beastman? What is a Herd like? Is it a tribe? How muvh do beastmen care about their Herd? If given the choice between their herd and their lives, which would they pick? What are Herdstones? Are they like temples? And do they actually all worship Chaos? Do the gods even care about them? I've never seen any Beastman Daemon Princes.

>>48236687
It's exactly the same, you need to fill the space on the table with something and instead of a miniature you use a little diorama an your base. Of course it's easier woth squares, but in actual good games multibasing can be a thing, so you just use a larger base as a filler.

>>48236408
>>48236475
This.
But: you can put round bases into square regiment bases.

You can get 20mm round bases for the units that used them, though it kind of looks odd to me.
Something else I've seen people do is base the miniature itself on a washer and glue some magnets under the bases, so you can snap the mini, including basing onto square or round bases depending on what you want to play.
Considering the amount of bases you'd have to switch before each game that is pretty impractical though.

>>48236828
Are just use movement trays. If people are ok with filler, then you don't need to have the unit at full strength anyway

>>48236747
To sum up daemons and the Chaos Gods in 40k and both setting they are psychotic, sadistic, selfish children, not manchildren, who want to make everyone worse so they can become worse, and have an obsession with dinosaurs(only in 40k).
>This almost makes Daemons kinda relatable in the sense that each Daemon has it even worse than mortals; There is no afterlife for them, so they're under constant watch and under constant pressure to please their gods, less they are disraveled with a mere thought.
What you thought just the mortal Chaos worshipers were called "slaves to darkness"?
>When under the banner of Chaos undivided, how do the armies of Chaos treat each other? Do Daemonettes and Bloodletters revel together in the excessive slaughter of enemies? Do Plaguebearers get complimented on a particularly mutagenic by Horrors?
They don't. They hate each other. They're only united by a strong leader who can make them put aside their mutual hatred for awhile.
>How does one become a Daemon prince of Chaos undivided?
Do what you do to become a DP for one Chaos Git but do it for the glory of all four of them. Hard to do, but it happen(ed)s.
>What are Daemon Princes' in this scenario? Do they just get free reign to do as they please?
Slaves. Filthy, unwashed, ignorant slaves who have become nothing more than stepping stones for others to become awesome. Normally. How strong a DP is depends on how strong the Champion was before becoming a daemon, and how much power the Chaos God is willing to put in. They can do whatever they want but in the grand scheme of things they're still pawns. In 40k one DP got demoted into a Chaos Spawn.

>>48236747
Most of these questions are HEAVILY retconned, and subject of extremely heated argument as to which is better. I'll keep it brief, and let people reply to voice their vehement arguments.
>Are things like the Elven and Human Gods particullarly strong Daemons?
Early on, there was no gods. Only Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods of Destruction, and the Chaos Gods of Order, all in a very sick game where mortals were like the tiny things running around your cities in Sim City that think they have free will, but don't and suffer for your momentary amusement in their pointless existence. Or a more modern reference, the car battery universe in Rick & Morty.

Later on, gods were suggested to be real and the Chaos Gods of Order were mostly left forgotten.

Then in End Times/Age of Sigmar the gods are very much real, most of whom are either the survivors of the previous universe (like how Alarielle for example is in Age of Sigmar) or just beings who grew super powerful. Of course, in typical GW fasion almost all of them were killed offscreen with no explanation as to which of the two they were because they aren't the main characters who have expensive models.

>>48236941
>How do Daemons act when left in a absence of enemies?
Khornates fight each other, Nurglites are one big happy oozy family who have little circuses and other bizarre semi-cheerful semi-scary amusements, Tzeentch's Daemons are never really without enemies because they're all insane plotters with half of them being gimped in some way to make sure they don't fuck up any of Tzeentch's plans in ways he hasn't planned for them to. Slaaneshi are the most interesting, there's hints they basically live like its an Elysian paradise with acid-trip fields of grass and fountains and parties and so on; Slaanesh's realm is more or less just pretty and fun (for its residents).

>When under the banner of Chaos undivided, how do the armies of Chaos treat each other?
They work together, although to what degree differs. Generally the humans are excited to be part of something, maybe they'll grumble a bit here and there if they aren't allowed to go do their thing but otherwise are like any army of comrades on the march.
Daemons have never really been described as how they interact when "allied". The sentiments of the Chaos Gods have been described, but I don't recall a single mention of what happens when a Pink Horror and a Daemonette sit down for supper with a Plaguebearer and a Bloodletter. Daemons in novels and fluff are kept very special, and are generally present as an unspeaking monster in the room, a twitchy advisor (almost always Kairos), or a tempter. Even in 40k fluff I can't recall a single story from the Daemon perspective.
Beastmen are the only beings that are really not thrilled about Chaos Undivided. To them, Chaos Undivided does not mean working together, it means pooling your strength to kill everyone else pooling their strength. They can barely restrain themselves from teamkilling for the duration of any alliance, only obey the orders they see fit, and decide when its time to stop following orders for themselves.

>>48236747
>>48236747
Fuck sake.

Open the 7thEd and 8th ED Daemon of Chaos army books, you pleb.

Daemons don't have it worse or are in misery. the fluff portrays them as children having careless fun at the expense of everyone with no regard or care of the damage they do because they cannot comprehend what they are doing is bad.

The Chaos Gods are their parents who give them freedom and indulge them up to the point of rebellion because everything the daemon do in end of the day is in the service of their parents.

>>48236747
Most questions on beastmen breeding habits and origins have been answered in previous posts. Also it would help to read the beastmen rulebook, should be in one of the links. Lots of interesting lore in there.
They're pretty much mutants That were men and animals warped together by pire chaos, which started reproducing with each other until they formed into somewhat stable races.
>do the gods care about them
Not really. The beastmen serve chaos as their nature, they serve by simply existing. The gods don't need to give them any particular gifts because for the most part it'd be a wasted investment. Of course there are exceptions, and these end up being the legendary heroes.

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>>48236950

>Do Daemonettes and Bloodletters revel together in the excessive slaughter of enemies? Do Plaguebearers get complimented on a particularly mutagenic by Horrors?
See above.

>How does one become a Daemon prince of Chaos undivided? What are Daemon Princes' in this scenario? Do they just get free reign to do as they please?
Old, retconned canon. GW got rid of the entire concept of Chaos Undivided for the most part in order to make Be'lakor and Archaon either into Villain Sues or into the de facto masters of all Chaos because you can't put a Chaos God on the table and its cool to actually field your faction leader (the answer is almost entirely reliant on who you ask, most people have a very strong opinion on this).

I'll just go with the current. Be'lakor was the first human to approach the Warp, and the Chaos Gods saw potential in him. He started Chaos worship, before the Gates collapsed. All non-Daemon Chaos begins with him, but because he's a petulant little shit that got on their nerves they decided to put him in a time-out he's never allowed to leave. This allowed the Chaos Gods to directly interact with their worshipers rather than their pissy little pope. Be'lakor made several attempts to escape his punishment until finally he created Archaon to be his instrument to do what he wants, but Archaon eventually gave him the finger with the reveal Archaon was the real reason the Chaos Gods created Be'lakor in the first place, leaving Be'lakor as the ultimate joke and tool rather than the origin of Chaos and true beloved son.

Archaon on the other hand is Chaos Undivided, full stop. Everchosen, forever supreme Champion in balance. Literally nothing the Chaos Gods send at him can defeat him, and so far none of them have attacked him themselves. He hates them, they love and hate him. None of them can gain any favor with him because he hates them all equally, but he uses them all because they're all useful tools to him. Balance.

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>>48236960
Dude, fuck off. We've been encouraging this guy to ask all the questions he wants all week because it gives us all something to talk about.

You don't like it, start another conversation about crunch or something.

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>>48236861
>movement trays
Yeah that's what I meant when I said regiment bases.
GW themselves had the idea a few years back with the war of the ring.

These days you can get bases like that lasered from mdf supercheap on ebay and other places.

>>48237007
You are giving him wrong answers and encouraging him to rape the lore.

How is it possible for someone to get the lore this wrong. This shows zero respect for the setting.

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>>48236994
>that picture
But why Sharkpedo though?

>>48237007
He's overloading it though, to the point where we can't have serious discussions because we're being bombarded by topics. It's be nice if he bothered to at least read the fluff portions of the BRB before firing off 30 questions that can easily be answered there. 1-5 questions at a time would make it much easier to discuss topics more in depth, like how we did with beastmen reproduction earlier tonight

>>48236994
>Also, im a little late, but what about beastmen? Are they just mutants, or a whole different race?
Both mutants and a different race. They rape men and animals. Men and animals are turned into them by Chaos magic. Mutants cast out into the wilderness rather than be killed join them. They are a mix of angry savages, who exist only to destroy everything that looks like it was made intentionally because it represents civilization, and to poop on things. Literally. They shit on everything.

>Are there different breeds?
Yes. But you'll only ever see goatmen because GW doesn't want to make more models.
>Like the ones in Ind?
In the smatterings of hints we've gotten in fluff, Ind is a fucking zoo.
>Are there actual female Beastmen, or is it just rape?
There are females. They are only described three times. Two, they are "shy and docile" and actually friendly towards civilized folk as one would imagine the midpoint between herbivore and human to be. One, it was among the males trying to kill the protagonists and nobody treated it like it was any big deal.
>Because I cant imagine them getting to be that big in numbers via rape alone.
"There are as many Elves as the plot demands."
-GW writer Gav Thorpe on why a race always described as dying out treats one death as an irreplacable tragedy in one story, loses tens of thousands in another and celebrates a victory in another. Or why Dark Elves can use almost their entire race as one giant army and lose badly, then attack again only centuries later (which in human years is like losing almost the entirety of the population, then attacking again as if you hadn't a few years later).

>Do Beastmen actually take care of their children, or do they follow the Skaven parenting guide of "lol, good luck you little shits, survival of the fittest"?
We have no idea.

>>48237151
>Where do they get their weapons and armor? Do they make it?
Anything they loot, they desecrate. Whatever survives being stomped on by hooves and smeared in shit either gets tied to a stick as a weapon or used as armor, after any indication it was made lovingly is removed. Someone mentioned the idea once of Beastmen finding an indestructible fragile-looking teapot and tying it to a stick to use as a hammer, then smearing it in shit before every battle so nobody ever notices the little pink hearts and name of the grandma they ate when they looted it.

>Where do beastmen live when not fighting? Are they nomadic?
The forests, fighting each other or anything else they can. Sometimes getting drunk if they have booze, raping and eating any captives they have. Sometimes gathering with a Shaman to find the will of the Chaos Gods out.
>What is the thought process of a beastman?
"KILLDRINKRAPEPOOP"
No seriously, most Beastmen are very simple and angry. Like NPC monsters in a video game mixed with a real life animal.

>What is a Herd like? Is it a tribe? How muvh do beastmen care about their Herd? If given the choice between their herd and their lives, which would they pick?
A herd only really serves their "US, THEM" mentality of the ones who want to do the same thing they do, and the ones to do it to. They don't really have sense of loyalty, even less than the Skaven who have the rare non-backstabbers and at least pretend to have loyalty. But since they're so interested in successfully killing and destroying, the purpose of a herd is to be in numbers and win.

>>48237164

What are Herdstones? Are they like temples?
Just basically Stonehenge-like places. They desecrate a rock, turn it into a reeking cancer of dark magic, and use it to spread their vileness.
>And do they actually all worship Chaos?
Invariably yes.
>Do the gods even care about them? I've never seen any Beastman Daemon Princes.
Absolutely not, the Chaos Gods have been repeatedly stated to have absolutely no interest, fondness, or concern for them. They are literally the ugly redheaded bastard stepchildren of Chaos.

>>48237038
Feel free to give the right ones. ;>
>>48237120
Eh, it keeps us talking. Nobody wants to talk crunch anymore, and most of us are too versed in the fluff to have many questions that aren't about OC donut steel.

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>Crom attempting to lead Beastmen into war against the Empire

>>48236960
>>48236965

Honestly, I prefer hearing it mostoy from you guys first hand. From the amount of retcons and stuff, its hard to get a good read on any of the factions, unless its from one of you guys well versed in all this. Plus, I'm already reading through quite a number of the Army books already. Vampire Counts, Orcs & Goblins, and Empire at the moment. You guys are also, really entertaining to read.

To be blatent, im taking any awnsers from any one, and just going off them. When I finally get around to the army book in question, I guess I'll find out.

But I also really like your((>>48236960)) explanation of Daemons being crazed children, who really dont understand that what they consider harmless fun is actually horrorific acts. But, what about their morality issue? Do they just ignore it, dont know sbout it, or do they just figure that they'll be fine, and freak out when they dissolve?

>>48236950
Thats strange that they keep Daemons so reserved, yet also make them a playable army. How often is it that Daemons actually get to fight outside of the wastes? How do they get followed by the followers if they risk blinking out at any time?

>>48236914
So basically, if your not pleasing your gods at all times, your at threat of loosing your powers? And to Daemons, being put into a weapon is like a major timeout? What do Daemons think of their mortal followerers? Are they just toys to them? What about those that summon them?

>>48236994
I hear a lot of bragging about Archaeo in the AoS general, and honestly, it seems almost mary sueish in scale. So this guy has ALWAYS been a world crushing, edgemaster, who's so good at fighting, that even the Chaos gods are afraid of him? Also, wasnt there other Everchosen? How come Archaeon is so special? Is it because of Bel'lakor?

>>48237225
>But, what about their morality issue? Do they just ignore it, dont know sbout it, or do they just figure that they'll be fine, and freak out when they dissolve?
We can only guess they're okay with it. I mean, they're going back to the source. The epitome of their existence.

Like going and telling the most zealous Christian who ever lived that when he dies he'll just merge with Jesus, and maybe get sent back to do more work for Jesus.

But again, who knows. As far as I know its never really been touched on how Daemons themselves think about much at all. Shit, the only reason we know about them not coming back is because of Age of Sigmar lore that contrasts how Sigmarines are raised, at cost to Sigmar because he values them as people and as seasoned warriors, with the Chaos Gods and their Daemons who they don't give a fuck about and pretty much create as they want them to be in the first place.
Fuck, Daemons may not even be aware they'll merge with their Chaos God like a creepy vore comic.

>How often is it that Daemons actually get to fight outside of the wastes? How do they get followed by the followers if they risk blinking out at any time?
Eh, lots of things can keep them manifested. Over-abundance of magic in the vicinity, pacts, something to physically anchor them. Daemons are FAR more stable in the Warhammer Fantasy universe than in 40k, because Fantasy is full of magic. Its like if the air in 40k was full of blank souls.

Really, Daemons blinking out of existence from Unstable is more when the force of another being's will pushes back against them or magic is applied than just the connection keeping them there fizzles.

>>48237431
>So basically, if your not pleasing your gods at all times, your at threat of loosing your powers? And to Daemons, being put into a weapon is like a major timeout?
Yeah, generally its not hard for a common Daemon to please their master (although like Masque found, you can piss them off by mistake) but they do technically have to try. No "I want to be a dentist, I quit" for Bloodletters.

>What do Daemons think of their mortal followerers? Are they just toys to them? What about those that summon them?
Yeah, Daemons are kind of in on the joke about man's existence. Plus all of Chaos is kind of douchey and arrogant towards everything.
Its only not a laughing matter when the human becomes a Daemon Prince, which is like that homeless man on the street that the boys were laughing at last night turns out to be the new boss.

>>48237459

>So this guy has ALWAYS been a world crushing, edgemaster, who's so good at fighting, that even the Chaos gods are afraid of him? Also, wasnt there other Everchosen? How come Archaeon is so special? Is it because of Bel'lakor?
I'm sure some Chaosfag will appear as part of the Husbando Defense Force, but basically there's been previous Everchosen. Some failed, one used the position to get revenge then had forsaken his powers and the Chaos Gods to die as a mortal man while giving everyone the middle finger.

Archaon is special because...Archaon is special. Be'lakor engineered him to be conceived by a specific lineage, to have the right schooling, to find a Chaos prophesy that foretold Archaon would become Archaon, to see all the Chaos propaganda which was true and also misleading ("THERE ARE NO GODS, ONLY CHAOS!" is actually "Chaos is just a form of magic, all divinity is actually magic, and the primordial Tzeentch was actually all magic before he developed a personality and lost most of it" for example, but all Archaon got out of it was "Fuck everything"), then manipulated Archaon to get the special Chaos treasures which only existed because of the previous Everchosen.

Then Be'lakor revealed "IT WAS ME, BARRY!" about creating Archaon. Be'lakor also revealed that he had literally been hitting the fucking reset button on the timeline, time-traveling like Warhammer is a video game about a hipster teenage girl trying to save her bisexual childhood friend/love interest, like fucking Groundhog Day, all so everything would happen as he wanted it to because it turns out half the time Archaon just refused to be the Everchosen and had to have another reset with slight alteration. This explains all the Warhammer retcons, Be'lakor was resetting the Warhammer setting and making changes. Because apparently he has that fucking power, when nobody else does.

>>48237199
>Feel free to give the right ones. ;>

Already did.

>>48237477
Why is Archaon so great? Because apparently Be'lakor gets to reset the timeline and change it however he wants, and did so until Archaon was literally the best. But then the Chaos Gods yelled "SURPRISE" and revealed that was the only reason he was ever made a Daemon Prince in the first place, to make Archaon for them.

Because of all of this, Archaon hates everyone and everything. He wants a reality where there are no gods, no kings. Just mankind and he himself in the ultimate Communist paradise.

Its a fucking mess.

Now despite what a clusterfuck of garbage many of us, I have to admit myself included, thing that is, some people really like it. They want their character powered by pure anime who's the ultimatest bestest ever because its canon. They want him to be the supreme embodiment of evil who is also the hero of the story, the physical manifestation of both genocide and hatred but also justice and bravery.

So there you have it. Archaon is an asshole with daddy issues in the biggest way. He decided that because his life sucks, justice would be killing literally everyone everywhere and creating his own existence, with blackjack and hookers. He lead Slaaneshi Daemons to children, Plaguebringers to the elderly, Bloodletters to the sick and infirm, and Tzeentch to the seat of all power because some asshole with a lisp keeps resetting his existence Groundhog Day style until he was so much of a pissy insane bastard that it seemed like fairness to him.

This is the guy who gets all of the spotlight.

>>48237488
Good job. Now go away.

>>48237507
>>48237477
Holy shit.

And I thought this guy was bad in AoS. So, he is the result of a Daemon prince fucking around with tine ITSELF, who in actuality, was only made so that he could make Archaeon, and thus found the prophecy that said he would be Archaeon. And than, he was tortured to the point where he simply gave the fuck up, and plans to give everyone a giant middle finger?

This seems silly, and at the same time hilarious. I dont think it blends too well outside of the whole end times thing though.

>>48237488
>>48237515
Honestly guys, Im trying to tackle a setting with 10+ years worth of lore, stories and books. By getting you guys to help explain the Old World to me, with each of you telling me the way you see it, it helps me get a better understanding and appreciation of the lore. Even if it may be blatantky wrong, I cant really know that till I read about it in the book itself. So, at the moment, im taking everything as true, asking more on that. And so far, you guys have been pretty awesome.

>>48237515
No,.this is my thread.

>>48237507
ET goes to /AoS/ please.

>>48237574
Yep. Despite being the only Daemon of Chaos Undivided in the later canon, Be'lakor is most connected to Tzeentch.
Tzeentch mostly punished him, he hates Tzeentch the most, and his plot was one giant manipulation caused by the manipulation of others.

Technically the Warp doesn't exist with a sense of coherent time, but Be'lakor is the only one who ever showed the ability to time travel in that manner in order to make changes to the main timeline.

He also didn't show it afterwards. In theory, he should still have been able to do it but didn't.

It was GW's attempt at being symbolic and having DEEPESTLORE, but it fell hard on its face and most people in this thread really fucking hate it while the AoSfags have highly divided opinions with a very vocal minority loving it because they love the character.

>>48236994

You forget to mention that Be'lakor's fall to damnation tainted the heart of men and opened them to Chaos. If a man looks deep into the darkness of his own heart, he will find Be'lakor staring back to him.

That's hardcore devil shit right there. Why doesn't he have many fans?

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>>48237685
>Why doesn't he have many fans?
Because its fucking stupid. They assigned the embodiment of evil to a character who gets kicked around by the Chaos Gods and spends most of his time being a whiny little bitch that makes Starscream look like Grand Moff Tarkin.

They also assigned him the blame of all the retcons and the destruction of the setting, making him actively hated by many of us rather than just disliked.

>Be'lakor is the only prince of Chaos Undivided
>Archaon is the only champion of Chaos Undivided

Why does GW hate Undivided so much?

>>48237844

They don't. Skaven were created by Malal.

>>48237903
Then who was Horned Rat?

>>48237844
Under the newer canon, Chaos undivided doesn't really make sense since 99% of the time the gods hate each other and would never fully cooperate in anything, let alone sharing a champion. Undivided is the exception, not the rule. The only reason the daemons cooperate with each other is to get to the mortal realm, and even the. They are constsntly screwing each other over. There was a story where nurgle jumped in and sided with Bretonnia because he didn't want tzeentch to win and destiny his favorite city. Of course the bretonnians weren't gracious at all and ended up wiping out both sides

>>48237912
A roodypoo candyass.

>>48238042
>Of course the bretonnians weren't gracious at all and ended up wiping out both sides

Bloody french, what do you expect?

>>48236828
>>48236475
>>48236455
>>48236445
I see, but can't I fit round bases onto a square decorated unit from safely and play like that?

>>48237912
A cunning disguise.

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Apparently there's human habitation in the wasteland?

>>48237225

Regarding Archeon, pretty sure Grimgor Ironhide beat him in one-on-one combat once.

>>48236340
Why would you even want to play AoS in the first place ? It's not like the rules became good and the game became fun with points.

>>48237685

They overused him, I think.

A bit like how some people really hated the old C'Tan in 40k for apparently being involved in everything.

>>48238042

But does Chaos JUST have to be those 4 gods?

I remember the Furies, which were just things formed of Chaos stuff. Would that be so crazy?

>>48238473
No, after getting tag teamed by Valten and Luthor Huss, and beating both of them after taking a bunch of damage, Grimgor ran in and blindsided him. Grimgor didn't beat him in combat like everyone likes to say he did, he just took a cheapshot.
In the Endtimes, Grimgor stalemates Archaon and has him against the ropes, even smashing the eye of sheerian in the process. After this Archaon releases the greater daemon bound to his sword and immediately kicks Grimgors Ass. Only Sigmar himself could beat Archaon, and even then Just barely.

>>48238542
>I remember the Furies, which were just things formed of Chaos stuff. Would that be so crazy?

Furies are Chaos Unaligned. Chaos undivided means that the Four Chaos Gods bless you or own you. They have an equal stake in your soul.

Furies are made from mortal souls that the chaos Gods want nothing to do with. They exist as a form of punishment for mortals who betrayed their oaths to the gods by shifting their allegiances. They are not Undivided.

>>48233123
It's definitely one of the cooler ones.

The best starting career is probably technically the knight-errant.