Which of these three ships is most likely to survive a three-way

>>48119269
Star Trek - they turn around and leave before any of the others can fuck with them.

>>48119269

Depends on the setting.

>>48119269
Long range - Imperial Star Destroyer, though 40k could get lucky
Med-close range - 40k ship.
40k ship has a lot of physical weapons, while the SD has almost all blaster (laser) tech.
So at a long range the SD could pick it apart, up close the 40k could and would show them what glorious cqc is.
I've never actually watched Star Trek so unknown variable

>>48119269
Mars has a massive advantage in range, to the tune of 100's of thousands of km, but it's also the slowest in and out of Warp. Stupidly overpowered, too. Slags continents.

Star Destroyer has decent shields and firepower, but it's range is not much longer than the Galaxy class (seeing as how it can bombard from orbit the range is easily in the low 1000's of km). It's also pretty slow at sublight speeds. Can slag a singular continent, but it takes days.

The Galaxy is fucking fast, fucking powerful but only as strong as her shields. Can also slag continents, but unless engineering has science in mind it's gonna take a while.

In a race? Warp 9 is slower than Hyperspace by a huge margin, but Hyperspace is almost impossible to use without a proper course around mass, while Warp is as simple as stomping on the gas.

The 40k Warp is not only useless in comparison to the other two, it brings with it the hazard of inviting rape monsters to a orgy in the galley.

>>48119354
>I've never actually watched Star Trek so unknown variable
why are you commenting in this thread then

Star Trek through reregulating their quantum field actuation stabilizers to produce a subspace cascade when they vent the warp plasma. Then they can agitate the photons with the deflector dish until their reactor core overloads from the static charge!

Of course, that could produce a huge amount of tacyon radiation in the engine room, but that's a risk they'll have to take.

Ensign Crusher, man the helm and take us in!

>>48119269
Like, a crash?

Galaxy blows up if it hits another ship.

SD's blow up every week because a farmer in an A wing flies into the bridge too fast.

Mars could smash into both of them and maybe scratch a bit of gold paint off the 300m eagle on the prow.

>>48119269
The Enterprise takes out the Star Destroyer, then just leaves because it lacks the firepower to destroy the Mars, but the Mars has no hope of catching up to it.

>>48119269
The Galaxy Class obviously. The only weapons available to either the Mars of the Imperial that have a potential to damage the Galaxy are torpedoes or the Nova Cannon, which the Galaxy can easily avoid. Photon Torpedo's have been stated to have the destructive power to destroy small planets, which the Mars cannot accomplish. The Galaxy is much faster than either two of those ships and can enter and exit warp freely and quickly letting it run away whenever it needs to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JUxQe4P4g

The only real disadvantage that the Galaxy has is that without its shield's its pretty fragile. But desu Star Trek never had set in stone combat abilities for its ships because that wasn't the point of the show, so who really gives a fuck?

Before anyone mentions teleporters:

The Mars-pattern has void shields and other anti Deep-Strike safeguards that would interfere with ST Transporters for sure, considering there are episodes where they can't beam through an electrical storm.

The SD has two kinds of shields: ray and particle. It also has a hypermatter reactor that causes so much interference it can be detected a mile from the ship.

Plus the Galaxy class has to lower shields in order to teleport, and that ain't happening considering the other two ships are designed around barrages.

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>>48119553
>a farmer in an A wing

Defeats every ship. No exceptions.

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>>48119354
>Long range - Imperial Star Destroyer, though 40k could get lucky

But tactics in Star Wars are even dumber than in 40. They fight like Ships of Line with WW2 fighters. It's even more blatant that 40k.

>>48119269
The Mars class. The other two operate within sight of each other, 40k ships are lucky if they can see their targets with the naked eye. Add to this that the bombers and fighters a mars can launch are pushing 60-70 meters themselves, there's not much either of the other ships are going to be able to do, assuming they get close enough to fire at the Mars.

>>48119673
It may be dumb but is sexy to watch

>>48119269
Mars class. While the SD and the Galaxy class are busy trying to hail the others on coms to get them to surrender or negotiate the mars class just plows through them both.

>>48119687
None of these ships operate on line of sight, just that its easier to film and edit two models moving right next to each other, or staying still looking at each other in the case of Star Trek.

>>48119673
it's based on cool factor

Star Wars is like a barfight.

Star Trek is like two girls wrestling with each other while everyone watches.

40K is like LARP.

>>48119354
>Long range - Imperial Star Destroy, though 40k could get lucky
u wot m8

>>48119711
>not nailing both with a nova cannon round from the other side of the solar system

>>48119779
the reasoning is that if they can hit the ground from orbit, they have some range.

>>48119817
Newsflash, that isn't difficult.

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>>48119354
>blasters are lasers
you dumbass fucking nigger

>>48120096
it is if you want accuracy.

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>>48119673

That's what 40k space battles are too, anything age-of-sail mashed together with ww1 and ww2 navy. They're both space fantasy, one's just much more hopeful than the other.

>>48119817
not compared to 40k. The occasional range figures we got from there put them as capable of accurately hitting targets as far away as the moon (or further in the more crazy examples).

A far better comparison would be to use a Sword class frigate than a goddamn Mars.

SD would get completely wrecked in one salvo as it cannot maintain shields against both armaments of a Mars not to mention strike craft (a Fury interceptor is around 25 meters and has 5 crew, slam that into a bridge and it's like 5xA-wing kamakazes.

Star trek is almost impossible to compare as there is virtually no form of consistent description of combat ability for anything.

>>48119817
Senpai, orbital fire for 40k ships is considered knife-fight range for space combat. Most short-range weapons have ranges of 300,000 kilometers. Weapons like nova cannons can accurately engage at 1.5 million km.

Against a Mars class would't it be more fair to compare it to a small SSD?

>>48119269
Every fucking time...

The Galaxy Class IS NOT EVEN A WAR SHIP! It's a glorified cruise liner full of scientists and diplomats.

Compare to the Sovereign class (what the Enterprise-E is) which is actually built for fighting and can take out a Borg cube.

>>48120810
Yes. At least firepower wise you are getting on par sans nova cannon.

>>48119269
The Mars, obviously, considering even if all things were fair it's in a way higher weight category than either of them, and the Galaxy hits way lighter than it could since it spends a lot of space on science and luxury instead of operating as a pure warship.

The real match would just be the Galaxy versus the Imperial, since 40K operates on a much higher power level than either Wars or Trek.

Hmm, now that I think about it, Picard vs Tarkin would be an awesome match.

>>48119354
Are you legitimately retarded, or do you just know nothing about 40k at all? 40k ships have superior energy and physical weapons to the Federation and Galactic Empire, they out-range both ships, and fight at speeds faster. Space Combat in 40k takes place at a significant fraction of the speed of light, with macrocannons actually being railguns firing shells the size of buildings almost at the speed of light, while lance batteries are just fuckhuge lasers used to carve up continents like a christmas tree. A 40k Battleship is capable of killing an entire continent with one broadside of all its weapons.

>>48119269
In 40k terms:

The Galaxy class is a Ravager with Night shields piloted by Air Caste.

The Star Destroyer is an uparmoured Predator Annihilator with Militarum Infantry escort.

And the Mars is a Baneblade with Astartes escort.

The Star Destroyer wouldnt stand up against the Mars unless the dice are loaded. It has better odds against the Galaxy if it stays still long enough to barage its shields into oblivion to open the door for TIE Fighters, but is small enough and slow enough that the Galaxy could evade long enough to sneak in some torps to the right spots. But an outright fireworks show is unlikely if the TIE's are still in good numbers.

But the Mars is just to big and too heavily armed with heavy escorts to help it. It would barrage the SD and its fighters into pulp and if the Galaxy stops to catch its breath for even a second its all over. The Shields wont survive a barrage meant to wreck planets. If the G keeps moving it could harass, but I dont thing it'll do anything more than a lucky immobilization.

40k is Star Trek setting after the apocalypse and more Q-like entities. Star Wars is basically an updated version of Flash Gordon.

>>48119269
Mars Class Battlecrusier. No questions asked. The sheer amount of armor, shields and superstructure hold longer then the ammo stores of the competition.

>>48120527
That's just a romantic scene, in the beast series hunt for Vulkan is Confirmed that the imperial ships have auto loaders and capable automatic systems.

>>48122441
>romantic
Damm you auto correct, I meant romanticised

>>48119567
>Photon Torpedo's have been stated to have the destructive power to destroy small planets

why the fuck are there any planets still standing in this setting

seriously, if civilian firepower could destroy countries IRL, there would very quickly stop being countries, except maybe China and Russia surrounded by 100-mile interdiction zones of ruin

>>48122441
>romantic scene
???

>>48122580
I meant romanticised

>>48122441
The beast series also takes place in the 32nd millenium, when ships of this style were still practically new. By 40k's present most ships have discarded the autoloaders as proper upkeep is reserved to a few forge worlds and as a result have become tempermental. The IN uses manpower as it tends not to catastrophicly jam when they can't service it except every 200 years.

This is from Battlefleet Gothic, the main source of ship fluff.

>>48122557
Because that anon is full of shit. If they could destroy planets than ANY unshielded ship would completely atomize from a hit. That would include the borg for the first impact before they could adapt.

>>48119269
It is not reasonable to expect the tens of thousands of slaves loading the cannons of the 40K ship to be as capable as the officers of the Starfleet or the Imperial Navy.

>>48122624
>This is from Battlefleet Gothic, the main source of ship fluff.
Also terribly old and outdated.

>>48122624
>This is from Battlefleet Gothic, the main source of ship fluff.
Which is over a decade old.

>>48119269
>>48120527
How can 40k ships even fire cannons fast enough when they have to have an entire army of slaves for each cannon shall just to load their train sized shells into their place. What next? Will it turn out that their ships are actually powered by a billion other slaves that are paddling in a generator with another entire army of slave masters whipping them while they themselves being whipped by their own slave masters to whip their own slaves faster? Gellar fields are actually powered by 67 million flagellants that are praying to the emperor 24/7 to not have the ship touched by chaos, while they never eat or drink and just die and have to be replace every 5 minutes and their corpses ritually burned and used as fuel for the torches that provide the light inside the ship?

I am sorry but sometimes 40k is just beyond the stupidest of stupid. Star trek and star wars have at least proper machines, not dumb ideas that only work because 'LOL it's GRMDERP I don't have to explain shit.'

>>48122770

Half of the things works, the other half doesn't work. Once a blueprint is lost, they don't know how to fix or make new things. It's a scavenging universe.

>>48122688
>>48122694
And? No current 40k fluff says otherwise. Again, the new series of ships in 32k had autoloaders. Fluff even says they were more common but not in 40k.

When I get a source from the 41st millennium that says the majority of ships use autoloaders (ie not from a primarch 8000 years ago) then I'll update my canon there.

But what I said still seems to hold true as nothing contradict present day fluff.

>>48122770
Because 40k vessels fire weapons about every 20-30 minutes. Yes it does take time. They also engage at ranges that it takes that salvo that long to connect even at relativistic velocities.

It is slow and inefficient but the firepower put out would devastate all but the largest vessels in the SW/ST settings and still would be engaging at exceedingly large distances compared to average SD engagements.

>>48122785
>But what I said still seems to hold true as nothing contradict present day fluff.
The same can be said of the half eldar chief librarian from the ultramarines

>>48122770
Keep in mind that they did at one point have that tech just not anymore.

Most of it is still machines but macro cannons use physical labor because autoloaders are exceedingly old and cannot be easily repaired. Sure if you have autoloaders you can use them but if they jam the magazine may explode. More reliable to use slave labor even if it less efficient operational wise.

>>48122807
>Because 40k vessels fire weapons about every 20-30 minutes.
Source?

>>48122785
No. GW does have a loose canon policy, it's New > Old.

>>48122846
>Keep in mind that they did at one point have that tech just not anymore.
They do, each ship is a hard copy of the original ship, the magos aboard the speranza didn't knew of the ships full capabilities until he commune with it.

>>48122835
Except they have canonically stated that all astartes start as human, and that Eldar are extremely biologically divergent from humans. Developers have even stated that particular character is no canon along with a lot of RT Era simply because they didn't even have a fleshed out universe yet.

>>48122807
At those engagement ranges, SW vessels could rather easily just use hyperspace micro-jumps to avoid enemy fire.

Hell, depending on the era, that Star Destroyer might be extremely interested in entering negotiations with the Galaxy-class. Post Endor-Imperials would be extremely receptive to entreaties from the hyper-xenophobic, totalitarian Imperium of Man.

>>48122856
Yes.

But it isn't new. It's old in universe ie the ships had autoloaders during the beast series. They currently do not have many left. I don't claim volkite weapons are common space marine special weapons because the hours heresy novels are more current. They were in that time period but are exceedingly rare now.

The Galaxy Class isn't even a warship of any kind. It has no chance whatsoever against the Mars or Imperial Destroyer. The Mars would just out right dominate, because Star Wars destroyers are the heaviest, slowest type of vessel in SW, built for firepower (Something the Imperium has a lot more of)

>>48122898
For macros maybe, but lances are still c speed. Also they can close and brawl with an SD. Turbos and such are also not luminal and suffer the same time-of-flight deflection issues.

>>48122901
No. New is the date of the source being produced. Not the date in-universe.

>At those engagement ranges, SW vessels could rather easily just use hyperspace micro-jumps to avoid enemy fire.
No such tactics exist in Star Wars, everybody just flies within a couple kilometers of each other in knife-fight distance.

Half of the ships in 40k are not even STC copies.
The hull is but the ship configurations have undergone extensive refits and repurposements to suit the constantly changing threats. In the 41st millennium no 2 Naval capital ships are identical anymore.

>>48122931
Ah, so space marines all still wear Mk. 5 armor. Gotcha.

>>48122654
what does the command capabilities of the loading mechanism matter? the slaves don't make any decisions.

>>48122441
the planetary weapons in the space marine game also have autoloaders for their giant shells.

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>>48119269

The ones in Independence Day are bigger.

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What's the typical defence against spaceships?

>>48119269
a Mars class is too overpowered.

a imperial navy cruiser or light cruiser would be fair.

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>>48123049
HUEG Guns.

>>48122847
there isn't one. it's one of those wrong "fannon" things like the admech hating science or lasguns being .50cal equivalent.

There's some stuff in bfg that points too a bombardment by the whole battery being 20 or 30 minutes from the next at extreme ranges of light second distances where they spend a lot of time on calculations and waiting for a good shot.
Theres sort of a telescopic timescale abstraction going on in bfg.

>>48123049

Tau have Ion/railgun batteries on land and city-sized orbital stations.

>>48122610
hundreds of muscular, sweaty men hefting massive ordinance is extremely romantic

I would walk down the aisle to their masculine grunts

>>48122770
>>48123040

the cannons usually still have autoloaders, or ate straight up energy weapons that don't even need reloading in the first place.

That artwork of slaves loading something is a torpedo, startrek still manually loads their torpedos too IIRC.

>>48123080
They also must have skulls and church windows decorating them.

>>48122637
>Tuvok and Kim modify a normal photon torpedo with a gravimetric charge, a Borg technology, to increase its destructive yield to 54 isotons. Kim comments that 50 isotons would have been sufficient to destroy a small planet

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_in_Star_Trek#Projectile_weapons

>>48122557
That's retarded. Its like asking why we still have houses if a gas explosion can take one out. Torpedoes are hardly civilian firepower besides, and there are plenty of episodes were the destructive power of the current technology is a serious problem, especially in the dominion war.

>>48122970
Are you autistic? MK VII has existed since the Horus Heresy.

>>48123140
>modified with borg technology
so a completely nonstandard torpedo, then?

>>48119269
>assuming the captains and crews are all equally competent?
You mean equally incompetent?

>>48122770
>What next?
Fire Warrior (the vidya) had segment onboard a navy ship. It had massive coal furnace to fuel internal systems.

>>48119522
Underrated post

What's the point of blowing up planets when you can annihilate the Crust?

>>48123205
Assuming the opposing crew are equally competent, that gimmick will accomplish nothing, and likely just get them shot because everyone else has eleven million guns pointed at them.

>>48123155
Standard by the time Voyager ends, and then replaced with Quantum Torpedoes that have an even higher yield. They're always calling back to scientific advances as the seasons of DS9, Voager and especially TNG go on. It isn't a stretch to assume that they used this technology to improve their weapons and their ships. Even if this 3-way scenario was set at the start of TNG when the Galaxy was relatively new, it's phasers will still be more destructive than anything the other ships have. There was one episode where they were firing the phasers at a planet to do something or other with its core, but the threat was that if the phasers were too powerful the planet would explode.

I always find it strange that /tg/ knows nothing about Star Trek and it's power levels. Even Wrath of Khan, the most popular Star Trek movie, has a single device that can kill all life on a planet. 40k on the other hand needs thousands of Torpedoes and Cannons to achieve that. So in terms of firepower the federation outstrips pretty much every other sci-fi setting that /tg/ talks about. It just keeps it in the background, an undercurrent to what is happening, so most people don't really think about it.

>>48123217

Didn't they need like a fleet to vaporise the Crust of the Changeling Homeworld?

>>48122441
Yeah and in Cadian Blood by ADB (like 3 years old), they use manual loaders.

The overseers are ordered to wip them to death if needs be, so they can fire nova cannon after nova cannon at Typhus's battleship.

IIRC the overseer is finally bashed to death by several hundred loaders he has a smile on his face.

Macro-cannon shells, nova cannon shells, and torpedoes are all loaded manually in Guard vessels.

auto-loader fag on suicide watch

>>48123233
The problem is Star Trek using made up prefixes for things and having (like 40k) no sense of energy or power. In the technical manual an Isoton (prefix means "equal to" it's not actually a magnitude) equals about 6-7000 gigatonnes of TNT which is not planet destroying by any means. That chixillub impactor scale to be sure but would in now way destroy a planet.

>>48119768
Nah, I'd say 40k is a couple of shitfaced slavs duking it out behind the bar, and both brought a gun

>>48123082
Rogue Trader has rules for ship battles where 30 minutes is a turn

>>48123305
Oh yeah, when it comes to science and powerscales both 40k and Star Trek are full of shit. I'm not debating that. But when you have actors proclaiming "thats enough to destroy a small planet" I'm assuming that the writer's intent was that the thing could destroy a planet, but that he has no knowledge of energy and/or scale and made a dumb mistake. Not that the thing couldn't destroy a planet and the characters are hyperbolic morons. Just because he got the numbers wrong doesn't make it weaker than something that got the numbers right, the authorial intent is what is important.

In no 40k novel or rulebook that I've ever read is the Mars-class able to destroy a planet with a single shot, or even a full a barrage using its entire supply of munitions, while in Star Trek that's definitely a possibility, numbers be damned. Ergo the Galaxy wins in terms of firepower.

>>48122441
It varies. Some ships have autoloaders, some don't. The imperium is pretty damn big afterall.

>>48123140
The problem with citing Voyager is that the writing got increasingly silly during the series.

>>48123468
Yeah voyager sucked, but don't try to tell me 40k hasn't gotten increasingly silly either.

>>48122770
>What next? Will it turn out that their ships are actually powered by a billion other slaves that are paddling in a generator with another entire army of slave masters whipping them while they themselves being whipped by their own slave masters to whip their own slaves faster? Gellar fields are actually powered by 67 million flagellants that are praying to the emperor 24/7 to not have the ship touched by chaos, while they never eat or drink and just die and have to be replace every 5 minutes and their corpses ritually burned and used as fuel for the torches that provide the light inside the ship?
He knows!

>>48119522
I was considering a post to this tune.

Galaxy class would win, would do so through generous application of Federation Know-Wots and ingenuity, would be done in the space of a 1-hour television time block.

>>48119269

Mars class.

Out of all 3 ships, it's the only one with weapons that are physically big enough to spot easily. 40k weaponry is scaled up to an insane degree.

The technology standard available to any ships in Star Trek laughs at 40k, but finesse and efficiency can only compensate against raw power so much. Consider a man throws a stone at a tank, it won't do much more than mark the paint. Then imagine smashing it with a meteorite. It's the same thing in principle, stepped up a thousandfold.

>>48123406
> while in Star Trek that's definitely a possibility, numbers be damned.
Bullshit

> Mars-class able to destroy a planet with a single shot, or even a full a barrage using its entire supply of munitions

Exterminatus

>>48123576
>Exterminatus

Takes a fleet and requires sustained bombing for an extended period of time, even then it only kills all life and doesn't destroy the planet death-star style.

>Bullshit
Just because you don't know what you're talking about doesn't make it bullshit. Star Trek is not hard sci-fi, just because the writers get the numbers wrong their intent is not nullified. The intent in multiple episodes is that the Galaxy-class and other Federation ships have the potential to destroy planets in a very short amount of time.

>>48123406
40k doesn't destroy planets because it's not worth their time to, and it's cheaper to just destroy the crust, in which case they have at least a dozen methods for doing so, at least three of those being a single shot, instead of having a singular, completely unique device like the fag earlier in the thread said that Star Trek had.

Could the Mars even hit the Enterprise with it's main weapons?

I could see maybe it's defensive turrets standing a chance but that's about it.

Also too much depends on how the various shields of each universe works.

If the Enterprise can just beam a photo torpedo into the middle of the Warp Reactor.

>>48123633
Where is it stated that the Mars class has the ability to destroy entire planets by itself?

>>48123626
Exterminatus does not necessarily require an entire fleet. You CAN destroy a planet by having an entire Imperial Navy battlegroup bombard it continuously from orbit, and the 6th edition rulebook stated this does sometimes happen. But lone Astartes or Inquisitorial vessels armed with specific planet-killing weapons like virus bombs and cyclonic torpedos can destroy a planet single-handedly.

>>48123042
>mfw the new movie
I think it looped through "so insane it's retarded" and "so insane it's awesome" several times, and I don't know where it landed.

>>48123626
>Exterminatus
>takes a fleet
>Imperium has at least three methods to Exterminatus in one shot
>One of them being able to destroy the planet death star style
>Star Trek
>Has one, singular, unique device capable of them same thing
Face it, Star Trek has nothing on 40k in terms of fire power, and this is because of one reason:
My writors are way more flamboyant and over the top than yours

>>48123639
the mars is capable of hitting manouvering space elf fighters at light second ranges. With some difficulty admittedly, but its still feasible.

Something like the enterprise is going to be no significant challenge.

>>48123676
>battlegroup
We're talking about three individual ships fighting each other here.

Virus Bombs and Cyclonic Torpedoes do not destroy a planet, in fact Virus Bombs do minimal damage to the planets. Thats the point of them, right? To release a virus that kills off all life but leaving the planet otherwise unharmed, which would be pretty useless against a small ship like the Enterprise.

Cyclonic torpedoes ignite the atmosphere and crack the crust, but the planet still exists more or less. It isn't necessarily fully destroyed.

>>48123639
>If the Enterprise can just beam a photo torpedo into the middle of the Warp Reactor.
for the sake of having a useful discussion we can just assume that each factions teleport blocking tech (for 40k this is their void sheilds) works on eachothers teleports. Otherwise it's just a very short draw as they both simultaneously teleport a big bomb somewhere important on the other ship.

>>48123709
IIRC, there's a two-step cyclonic torpedo with a melta warhead designed to bore through the crust and mantle, and right into the core, where it explodes and shatters the planet. Useful against tomb worlds.

>>48123727
>Otherwise it's just a very short draw as they both simultaneously teleport a big bomb somewhere important on the other ship.
Or when the 40k ship teleports a small squad of a million imperial navy marines.

>>48123709
the two stage cyclonics that bore too the core of a planet before detonating are the total planet destruction version.

>>48123709
>It isn't necessarily fully destroyed.

Which is a fair point, but it's still left uninhabitable. The planet might exist, as opposed to being reduced to an asteroid field, but the goal of rendering it unusable to your enemies is still accomplished.

I haven't actually been following the thread, I just saw an error in the mechanics of exterminatus and ducked in to correct it. A single, properly armed ship is capable of carrying it out, you don't need a whole fleet.

>>48119289
No. No it does not. He has given you all the information you need you fucking twat.

>>48123751
>No it does not.
Depends on the setting

>>48123690
>Star Trek Has one, singular, unique device capable of them same thing

Phasers, Photon/Quantum Torpedoes and the Genesis Device (which to be fair only kills all life on the planet) are able to destroy planets. Phasers and the Torpedoes are standard issue on Starfleet ships.

>Imperium has at least three methods to Exterminatus in one shot

Funny how no one has mentioned what those are yet.

>>48119354
>Long range - Imperial Star Destroyer, though 40k could get lucky
Star Wars ships almost ram each other while firing.
Outside the vidya, 40k space battles are fought over fuckhuge ranges.

>>48123770
they have earlier in the thread. Virus bombs, cyclonic torpedos (atmosphere ignition) and two stage cyclonic (planet becomes asteroid feild)

>>48119269
>all equally competent?
Isn't that part of the problem with 40k's world?

>>48123744
>>48123743
Alright fair enough, I didn't know that those existed in 40k fluff.

But what use would those be against a ship like the Enterprise, when its firepower is more than enough to match that with shields capable of absorbing that amount of firepower many times over.

>>48123783
See >>48123788

>>48123768
I think I'm having a stroke.

>>48123788
not too much. this tangent all started as "i can blow up planets un one shot" dick waving contest.

>>48123626
The Genesis Device doesn't count.

In fact, the very fact that the Genesis Device had value to Khan as a weapon suggests that the federation doesn't have planet killing weapons.

>>48123830
Yeah but they can. That seems like a fair measure of ship strength. Besides I made that first post backing Star Trek, pretty sure I mentioned speed too.

>>48123832
Honestly that's a fair point, but WoK takes place 70-odd something years before TNG so it could be possible that the Federation didn't really have that level of technology at that time.

>>48123741
according to BF gothic you cant teleport on a ship with its void shields up

>>48122785
I don't see why all new builds (and they do build them, IIRC a brand spanking new cruiser can be slapped together in a decade in 40k) wouldn't have the auto-loading systems though.

>>48123858
I'll grant you that the Federation probably has better tech than the imperium. They just don't have the infrastructure to support ships of the Imperium's scale.

A Yamato class dreadnought would spank the pants off of a Sword class frigate despite being about 200 meters shorter.

Depends if their fight is writen by 40k, SW or Starterk fanboy.
Everyone wins if all people who star power level discusion kill themselves though.

>>48123825
Depends on the setting

>>48124691
They probably do most of the time.
No autoloaders isn't actually mentioned in the bfg fluff and there's just that one artwork of a manually loaded torpedo.

>>48119664
Any ship in a setting stupid enough to have warships with windows.

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Just Imagine the redshirts engaging terminator shock troops in the corridors of their ship.

Or Stormtroopers trying to fight some boarding space marines

That would be the real fun

>>48123788
>But what use would those be against a ship like the Enterprise
little

what any federation ship should be worried about is the mars-standard nova cannon, which can quite comfortably nuke an enormous area of space from well outside its range

>>48124929
I wonder if terminator armor can walk through forcefields. I mean, I've heard stories of terminators getting stepped on by titans and surviving.

>>48124986
Depending on the intensity, I'd imagine they could. If nothing else, the rather significant power fields on their weapons would have some kind of effect.

Maybe it'd be like dune in that the reaction would just nuke the ship when a terminator tried to punch his way through a starfleet defensive emitter. and survive, because lolterminator armor

>>48122970
Mine all wear beakie armour, I forgot what Mk. it is.
So you're not completely wrong.

>>48119522
This.

You put two bad guy ships against a good guy ship. Of course the Enterprise wins.

>>48124986
I imagine that a Thunder Hammer, Lighting Claw or Power Fist could pound away at the force fields till it broke or even the conflicting energy systems short each other out.
So the Termi now has a less then all-powerful club for a fist but the hall is now free for exploration.

Mind you, I'm thinking more poetic license here and less what the facts would actually say.

>>48119801
If BFG armada is anything to go by you'd get a glancing hit at best and barely do any damage.

Thanks tinaldos.

>>48123233
40K can destroy planet by a single gravitonic shell or ciclonic topedo.

>>48125116
And then they send a security team to "deal" with it.

Because we all know how effective starfleet ground forces are.

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>>48123406
BFG says that ANY capital ship can bring and use exterminatus weapons. Masr is no an exeption. And gravitonic shels from Rogue Traider can in one shot rip planet apart with pover of black hole. Or ciclonik torpedo just blown up planet core and rip it to asteroid belt.
But planet itself is very valueble resourse and exterminatus is relativly rare ocassion. Even for Abbadon on his Planetkiller

>>48123675
BFG rulebook p. 78.
Rogue Trader Battlefleet Koronusp p. 15.
Just face it - Star Trek sucs in war, because it's an communistic utopia with frendship magic.

>>48123233
In ship-to-ship
40K > Star Trek > Star Wars

On the ground
40K > Star Wars > Star Trek

In amounts of Nerd Rage over these threads
Star Trek > Star Wars > 40K

Void Shields operate in a way that phasers can not reliably bypass. Phasers just can't pull it off against shielding tech that disperses the energy AND displaces it into another dimension. Whats more, while this anon >>48119522 has an amazingly perfect Trekkie plan, this is literally just waves crashing against stone.
40K is designed to be over the top and overwhelming.

Also to the samefriends who can't spell Cyclonic Torpedo and bastardized the concept of Gravitonic Shells, kindly read a fucking book...

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>>48126901
Need a little help with spelling?

The Mars and ImpStar I definitely outgun the Galaxy-class, but guns are not why the Federation always wins, what with them having designed exactly one warship in their entire history of the culture and that warship NOT being the Galaxy-class.

The Federation wins because their grasp of SCIENCE! is so ridiculous that they basically can make their technology do literally anything at all and solve literally any problem with maybe five minutes of engineering work.
So the Federation looses the fight but dramatically at the last second they win because of an inverse tetryon focused pulse ray emission from the Nth Dimension that disables their ships and sends them back to their respective universes.

Afterwords the Captain in his log spells out that ultimate metaphor and moral of the events.

>Captain's Log, Stardate A Big Number
>"Repairs are being done on the ship after the ferocious battle, but are well underway. I feel a sense of regret that whatever civilization build such fantastic vessels had their technological power turned so completely to war, squandering their great potential on pointless conflict that gained them nothing. I wonder idly at if some great power could have brought them here so we could see the potential mistakes we ourselves could have made. The only thing I feel I can truly conform though, is that OP is a tremendous faggot who fucks dogs up the ass."
>End Log

>>48127119
Correction; 40k is designed to fulfill your adolescent manchild power fantasies and make you feel important.
Before that it was a lot less pathetic and it was basically just a bunch of 80's British scifi stuff out of something like 2000AD thrown together with some Dune and shit like that.

It's amazing how a fandom can shit up a thing.

>>48127285
10/10 post, you're still backing the wrong horse but damn it Anon I like your style, you beautiful bastard.

>>48127317
So you're saying the 40k is leagues more powerful than the trek and wars ships.

>>48127333
Just to clarify; I like all three settings equally, even if I hate the current 40k fandom quite a bit.

I just know exactly how the Federation wins, and it never has anything to do with laser slugfests in space.
It's not that kind of franchise.

>>48127317
Correction; 40K is designed to be a money grab that managed to grow in it's own right; while still being over the top and overwhelming. The 1980's were a Hell of a time, kiddo. A shame you weren't there to understand what us grown-ups are talking about.

>>48127285
> their grasp of SCIENCE! is so ridiculous that they basically can make their technology do literally anything at all and solve literally any problem with maybe five minutes of engineering work.
By that very same logic, so does 40k's.

>>48127360
Of course you fucking idiot.
And they'd still loose to the Federation because to even work they need to carry their genre conventions with them.
The ImpStar is crewed by morons who can't think their way out of a wet paper back, and the 40k ship a crew who's faction in their own setting is defined by how doomed it is and how they take endless losses in the trillions and that they've been perpetually fucked for the last decade of fluff writing.

>"Quantum torpedos away Number One."
>"Sir, minimal damage to their shields. But uh.....something like twenty percent of their crew just died due to a radiaton leak or something."
>"We must be straining their generators."
>"No Sir it just....happened. Like, we didn't get through their shields at all and people died anyway."
>"Curious. Pull back and scan, this may be a ploy to-"
>"Another five percent just died Sir. I don't even know what happened there. We didn't do anything."

>>48127191
Yep. Too litle practise. But i think, you understand me anyway.

>>48127317
Salt

>>48127368
While that is true and my point remains, OP did the stupid thing and dropped the "who would survive this encounter" clause.

Technically everybody could easily come out surviving since OP didn't actually say if it was a fight for survival or active combat. Although considering that this would have to take place a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. The unpredictable tides of the Immaterium threw this vessel so far off course and Q was probably dicking around, yet again, still...

So we've got a lore with galaxy locked ships that rely on a thoroughly developed and well planned space highway (hyperspace in a nut shell), Warp still requires some knowledge of what lay between point A and point B, jumping into the Immaterium requires a navigator with testicular fortitude enough to fly without the Astronomican.
Star Wars wins the foot race portion.

World ending weaponry with sheer size and volume of dakka, deflectors and blasters with decent size, zippy little bastard that pulls off stunts that defy all logic and expectations of combat for the other two with surprising firepower.
Combat goes to 40K on this one with Star Trek in a close second.

Warmongers, Warmongers, the greatest diplomats and explorers and scientists known to all of science fiction...

The Federation wins the entire encounter because diplomacy is op.

>>48127514
>Q: "Well Captain, what have you learned?"
>Federation Captain: "That you're really unoriginal for a higher-dimensional being. Seriously, you DO know we keep logs, don't you? You tried this exact same bullshit with Picard and the Borg."

>>48119269
The Galaxy Class wins. Photon torpedoes are OP as fuck and can be fired while moving at speeds that the other two ships would find extremely hard to deal with.

The I-Class is at the bottom of the barrel here. Its weapons pack and appreciable punch, but it engages at ridiculously close ranges. The Mars would pick it off from a couple of light-seconds away.

>>48127623
While I would agree that the Mars would find it difficult to target the smaller Galaxy with the main batteries, they still do manage to hit ordnance (Fighter/bomber/torpedo) waves at some rather impressive ranges. Lances especially are very very accurate, as they rely on hitting rather then just filling the space with explosions.

I'd also point out the the Mars is primarily a carrier, rather then a gunship, and has a nova cannon. Which is very good at accidentally small vessels.

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>>48127472
It is true that I managed to figure out what you meant, but perhaps you could start using a spell checker.

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>>48123709

> Cyclonic torpedoes ignite the atmosphere and crack the crust, but the planet still exists more or less. It isn't necessarily fully destroyed

>>48123743

> there's a two-step cyclonic torpedo with a melta warhead designed to bore through the crust and mantle, and right into the core, where it explodes and shatters the planet. Useful against tomb worlds
>>48123770

> Funny how no one has mentioned what those are yet.

Fucking read the thread anon.

>>48119269
TECHNICALLY IN ROUGH TERMS, Mars-class outperforms the other two in terms of both defenses and armaments by and ungodly margin, and could temporary negate the advantage of the other two in mobility via micro-warpjumps and teleportarium boarding.

But going deeper into that, Galaxy is not even a warship, has permanently holding Plot-shields, and the limitless power of Making Up Technobabble Shit On the Fly. So in an actual encounter Mars-class is doomed.

Star Destroyer gets BTFO by both the other two, no argument.

Also Mars-class sucks.

>>48128040
>Star Destroyer gets BTFO by both the other two, no argument.
Depends on what estimates you're using. Some calculations of Star Destroyer firepower actually put it in the petaton-per-salvo range, or enough to strip the atmosphere from a planet in about a minute of fire. This calculation is based on, as far as I could tell, two (dubious) assumptions:
1. That the Death Star operates on more-or-less standard turbolaser technology, scaled massively up, and
2. Power is roughly linear with size.
Calculate the amount of power required to vaporize an Earth-sized planet, adjust for scale, and there you go: standard ISD as world-killer.

>>48128364
> Some calculations of Star Destroyer firepower actually put it in the petaton-per-salvo range
An MC80 with no shield can survive a SD's turbolaser salvo without vaporizing -> into the trash it goes.

>>48128364
If the death star was just a massive normal laser, why did it take so much to design it?

I'll admit I know jack shit about star wars beyond the films.

>>48128511
Its a stupid amount of power to focus. It had a collapsed star at its core. The scale is enormous.

>>48128511
For the same reasons a skyscraper is so much harder to build than a two-story house.
>>48128417
I believe there is much handwaving about equally-advanced materials technology, 'integrator fields', etc. but yes, it is a bit silly.

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>>48128364
>Depends on what estimates you're using. Some calculations of Star Destroyer firepower actually put it in the petaton-per-salvo range, or enough to strip the atmosphere from a planet in about a minute of fire.
We call people who think this "mentally retarded drooling mongoloids with their dicks glued to their hands".

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>>48119567
surprise attack from 8 ships

much destruction

>>48123751

No. The setting is where the battle takes place. What if the imperium had no warp, or the star destroyer had no force, because the battlefield is star trek where those things don't exist?

>>48130245
The assumption is that they can do anything that they could do in their respective universes.

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>>48124929
I'm imagining a shared 40K, Star Trek, Star Wars setting The scale of 40K the Force and galactic politics from Star Wars and the ubiquitous super science tech from Star Trek

>>48127453
>And they'd still loose to the Federation
You think that because star trek fulfills your adolescent manchild power fantasy, while the mere mention of 40k sends you into an autistic fit.

>>48121419
>A 40k Battleship is capable of killing an entire continent with one broadside of all its weapons.

Is this supported by anything? Why would there be a need for exterminatus weapons if this were the case?

>>48130245

Force isn't a factor unless Vader or Palpatine are physically present on the ships, considering they're basically the only force users capable of influencing in any meaningful way a battle between ships of that scale.

40k's warp travel is so impractical that we can safely assume it won't be used tactically in this confrontation. Star Trek and Star Wars hyperdrive/warp drive are supposed to work no matter the setting, and considering that if they will be used for tactical purpose it will be on relatively short distances, I don't think they'd need space mappings or stuff like that. And they aren't reasonably going to do it anyway. Kiting for the trekkie ship would have little sense considering they're outranged anyway.

So shut your memehole.

>>48123399
FFG books are a questionable source of canon.

>>48132458
Not him, but have you WATCHED Star Trek ever?
I can hardly remember a single incident in any show where they genuinely solve their problems through usage of force. 99% of the time they get their asses kicked in straight fights.
The Federation HAS no power to have adolescent power fantasies, that's why most kids avoid watching it entirely; it's nothing but talking and science gobbledygook and then MORE talking.
The toughest and most martial approach in the room is always beaten up early on and then they have to be clever instead.

It's like Doctor Who; blunt physical violence never works but when you jury-rig some weird thingy and point the sonic screwdriver at it you solve the problem.

>>48123568
>The technology standard available to any ships in Star Trek laughs at 40k
Star Trek tech can't even make a lame person walk. 40k tech-priests can pretty much resurrect you if they find your brain.

>>48123788
40k shields shunt incoming attacks into the warp. Destructive power per shot is irrelevant until you hit the hull.

>>48132535
>Doctor Who
How would he fare in this matchup anyway? Does his space box have any weapons or anything like that?

>>48132611
Time Travel is all the weapon anyone could possibly need and then some.

>>48127119
>40K is designed to be over the top and overwhelming.
40k is like, the weakest space setting there is. Check the numbers on a basic Star Wars turbolaser. It could crack any planet like an egg.

>>48132631
Which entirely explains why the Galactic Empire would need a moon-sized Death Star.

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>>48132611
No but TARDIS weapons are fucking crazy
Canon status of pic questionable

>>48132611
Nope. Outside the time travel and space travel stuff it's just a box, albiet a basically indestructible one. Even when it gets blown up it doesn't stick.

The Doctor wouldn't really fight anyone, but he'd spend fourth minutes on the Star Destroyer and dismantle it completely then another on the Mars and not only fix the ship better then anyone ever has before, he'd make it so that Warp travel was safe again by perfecting their hyperspace junk and send some kinda special signal through the Navigator that heals the Emperor and perfects the Astronomicon so that it works permently forever without the need for human sacrifice or something.

The Doctor spends half an hour every other day fixing problems that plague entire civilizations for thousands of years.

>>48130431
The Federation would basically do what the Tau are doing now; reverse-engineer everything with little difficulty and winning everything through sheer plot armour without ever having to make any compromises.

And thereby shit all over the entire point of the setting and invalidate everything else going on.

>>48132676
I didn't say it wasn't retarded.

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>>48132757
True
But I was thinking more of an amalgamation of the three settings
In hind sight I should have been more clear

>>48132757
How is it the Federation's fault that the 40k universe is full of dithering idiots?
I mean I read 40k fluff and novels: half of it is maybe two to three competent and noble people struggling through the utter incompetence and selfish dickery of literally the rest of the combined cast, which includes the universe.
Near the end one or two of said idiots will go insane and/or commit suicide or die horribly because their scathingly moronic plan backfires just like it obviously was always going to.

40k is a dystopia for the reasons all dystopias are dystopias; every important choice anyone could ever make was the wrong one or the selfish and mean-spirited one so it all goes to shit and stays that way.
Star Trek is kinda the opposite I guess, about people overcoming (even if they have to keep trying at it) their inherent limitations, hence a utopian society.

>>48119269
40k is a gigatons range setting, with the occasional teraton weapon (even petaton for nova cannons, but that's high-end).
ST is kilotons to megatons depending on the interpretation, same for SW.

If we take the observed, common calculations for every setting, one 40k ship is capable of crushing dozens of SW and ST ships without ever stressing its shields.

>>48132931
If the Federation is just going to trade drunken punches with them, sure.
40k is built upon creaky unreliable tech of immense power maintained by religious fanatics with a debatable grasp of it's inner workings.
Star Trek would just beam a few proton torpedoes into their reactors and watch the fireworks.

>>48119408
>Warp 9 slower than hyperspace

Not a prayer. The Millennium Falcon, one of the fastest ships in the galaxy, traveled at something like twice the speed of light, or 2c. Warp 1 is the speed of light, warp 9 is the speed of light to the NINTH power, or c^9. A LOT faster than 2c.

Fyi, 10c was considered experimental, cloaking device level technology for Star Wars. Star Trek is so stupidly OP as to have no contest.

Interestingly enough, proton torpedoes (antiproton warheads) may be consistently portrayed as underpowered by most SW canon. In theory, they have a 1km blast radius.

>>48133036
Void shields stop interdimensional transport and teleportation.

Before you mention x technobabble of the week, recall that Star Trek teleportation is jammed by just about everything, from energy fields to astrophysical phenomena to motion to weird rocks.

On a purely joule-to-joule comparison, 40k outguns (and outarmors, and outshields) SW and ST by a hundredfold. If you really want to be an asshole and milk the outliers, hundreds of thousands times.

That has no bearing on the relative merit of the settings, but if you want to objectively compare the two for a crossover or such, it's something that has to be accounted for.

>>48133137
Which warp calculation are you going by?

>>48121419
Part of this is horseshit. Star Trek portrays battles as having taken place WITHIN warp, or at a large multiple of the speed of light

>>48122866
This isn't quite true. A large part of 40k is that there were more advanced technologies in the past, because unending warfare has reduced the technological base. Rogue Trader even has an adventure where the party makes allies of a walking city with autoloaders for the city cannons, and the Traders secure them for the AdMech.

>>48121419
>used to carve up continents like a christmas tree.
I would have accepted "ham" or even "turkey", but a tree?

>>48133137
Most speeds for SW hyperdrive I've seen have them crossing the galaxy in days, which puts them at tens of thousands of times lightspeed.

>>48133182
I'm not addressing 40k yet. "Warp" is Star Trek, with warp 10 literally passing through every single point in the universe at the exact same moment, as per canon.

If this discussion is going to have any semblance of functionality it has to be tech ability alone.

No Vader flying the SD
No spess mehreen bathole bruddas on the Mars
No TV series cast of plot armor/bullshit out of bag on the Galaxy

Just a generic crew.

>>48133317
There are different warp scales for different times in the Star Trek universe, I don't think the c^9 number is right for warp 9, you may be right depending on which calculation you use. From your description of Warp 10, you are used to TNG though there are some minor changes later on, if I remember correctly.

>>48133296
Yeah, the canon for SW is inconsistent as fuck and the authors never checked for math. The figure I quoted is from the SW d6 RPG, which had to put numbers to it.

Incidentally, 10,000 times lightspeed still doesn't even exceed warp 2, which is 186,000 times lightspeed. The earliest, OLD Star Trek ships were Warp 7.

>>48133378
Isn't the Galaxy class from TNG? Mentioned S1E1, if I remember correctly.

>>48132576
If void shields are stripped down by a single Lance strike, it isn't unrealistic to assume that a single phaser hit could achieve the same thing.

>>48133389
Actually, no, crossing the galaxy in about a week would probably be a couple million times lightspeed; even a hundred thousand times is still a year to cross the galaxy. Although I think that's dependent on hyperlane placement; call it that SW can get close to ST speeds, but is less strategically flexible since maximum velocity is dependent on there being convenient hyperlanes.

>>48133389
They're not that fast, but much faster than anything in SW or 40k.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_factor

>>48133268
I derped hard. I meant goose.

>>48133591
I thought maybe your Christmas was more Metal than mine or something.

>>48132931
40k is in the high gigatons to low teratons. Broadsides unleashing everything easily go into the single or double digit teratons.

>>48122557
>what are nukes?
>what is MAD?
We've had lethal weapons since we learned to sharpen sticks, but there are now 7 billion of us. Just because we have the ability to kill shit dead, doesn't mean we do.

>>48132611
A single War TARDIS could destroy all of Star Trek, 40k, and Star Wars in a single day.

>>48133617
You guys telling me you don't cut up and eat your Christmas tree on Boxing day?

>>48132526
>a questionable source of canon.

You just described all of 40k.

>>48133689
And by design, no less.

>>48133631
ST invents shit like insta-terraform weaponry and shelves it because it's just too questionable.

That said, they've never really had their backs against the wall and losing entire systems before.

>>48133481
According to Memory Alpha, the Warp Factor designations are calculated up to Warp 9 as pic related, this means that the speed of TNG Warp 9 is 1516.381c or 126365.09225 kph, your calculation gives us 5.4675e+45 kph, far in excess of what the actual speed should be, while this is unimportant, as you original point still stands I had to check.

>>48132631
>check the non canon stats that were never canon ever before the retcon because they contradicted the movies and tv show
lol

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>>48133755
Forgot pic

>>48133751
Yeah but Star Trek only uses those things ONCE, and they never show up again. In a military conflict those MacGuffin tactics tend to never happen with the Federation often getting its ass kicked, then pulling through thanks to alliances with other races (Klingons thrasing the Romulans with the Feds), or very rarely actually growing a brain and making military ships for once in their life instead of civilian shit (USS Defiant).

>>48133751
Or insta-black hole liquid.

>>48132676
It's not the firepower, it's that Palpatine needed to compensate.

He's, like, older than dirt. He's been shooting dust for years.

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>>48133801
>Yeah but Star Trek only uses those things ONCE, and they never show up again.

That's because Star Trek isn't in a setting of ENDLESS WAR across the universe.

The point is, there tech is at a level where they can whip up a Doomsday device as needed to resolve serious conflicts.

>>48133807
>JJverse
>At all relevant

>>48133840
Do you say this whenever a new revision of Codexes come out?

>>48133833
But then they forget how to do it again after using it. Star Trek suffers from tech of the week. Something shows up once, and when it would have really helped out everybody to have on hand again, nobody remembers it exists. If Star Trek actually competently used their technology they would have eclipsed the fucking Borg and everybody else below reality warper races like the Q in a year. But they're still stuck around the same tech level because of their inability to either remember that tech or mass produce it.

>>48133855
Only if the new codex is written for 2nd ed 40k

>>48133855
I don't see what they have to do with the JJverse being a alternate universe with no bearing on the Prime Universe.

>>48133855
JJ Universe has nothing to do with main canon Star Trek, and the JJ verse actually has significantly weaker ships. The Enterprise gets fucking shredded by kiloton and megaton blasts in every movie. The only thing going for them in JJ verse is the black hole weapon, as everything else is made out of glass.

>>48133881
>But then they forget how to do it again after using it.
They didn't forget how to make the Genesis device, they just realized it would create a panic-induced state of War if they started using it. And they also don't seem to lack for habitable planets, making it's peace-time use questionable.
They tend to put that sorta stuff in large warehouses for their "finest men" to study at length.

>>48133911
JJ Abrams Star Trek is more like Star Wars with bigger ships anyway.
And then he goes on to direct Star Wars, so yeah.

>>48133922
>le Section 31
I think those guys are more likely to summon fucking Cthulu than cause any progress.

>>48134010
>Picard sends Cthulhu back to the depths with a long-winded diatribe

>>48133940
God I hate JJ verse so fucking much. His movies are NOT Star Trek, they're as you said it, fucking Star Wars. Star Trek is classic sci fi in that it often uses a fictional setting to address modern social issues, such as race, civil liberties, and war. It isn't perfect and sometimes fucked up hard, but it's still an important cultural landmark and did help some things.

Meanwhile there's absolutely nothing cerebreal about JJ Trek. There's no moral question of whether or not we should kill the Borg, because they're all just enslaved people who can be freed and turned into individuals or any of that. There's no depth, there's no character. It's just FLASH WHIZ BANG SPACE BATTLES EXPLOSIONS DUDE.

Who /cautiously hype about the new series/ here?

>>48133911
The enterprise getting beaten around by explosions in the kiloton range isn't new though. In balance of terror a primitive Romulan nuclear bomb/mine analogous to a weak modern nuke is powerful enough to push enough radiation through the Enterprises shields to completely penetrate her hull and inflict radiation burns on crew throughout the ship. If the Romulans had dumped out multiple nukes with that debris then most of the Enterprises crew would have been rapidly dying of acute radiation poisoning because the shields plus hull weren't enough to shield them from conventional nuclear weapons in the 1MT range.

>>48119269
The one issue I see here is that Star Trek has one LOLHAX ability that the other two don't: They can fire their weapons from FTL. So a competent captain would just swoop by literally too fast to see or hit and bombard the other two with antimatter nukes and the unholy combination of a particle accelerator and a warp drive that is a phaser.

If it's a question of universes, star wars beats trek by sheer numbers and wh40k beats both by sheer fuckery.

>>48134061
The second Abrams film had almost too much moral ambiguity in it, even the first film was very much like the Khan tv episode, with corrosive need for revenge leading to tragedy.

Television Star Trek resolved conflicts with "threats to self-destruct" or "beam over and fite me" because they didn't have a budget to do much more than use "le stock ship firing lazors" footage.

>>48124929
Little girls in the schola training to be a Sister don't have moms.

>>48134092
Considering it will only be accessible on CBS's netflix style streaming service, which has its own separate subscription fee, fuck that noise.

>>48134224
Have you considered piracy?

>>48134061
I mean, they aren't BAD movies or anything. Pretty average action films.
They just aren't good Star Trek movies.
>>48134092
Don't you need to pay an extra special subscription on a single network's digital streaming service for it?

Yeah, fuck that noise.

>>48134280
B-but that's illegal!

>>48119269
>Mars class battlecruiser
It accurately fires a broadside of shells the size of chapels and torpedoes capable of leveling massive cities in a single shot. They are also designed to ram, and be rammed, by other massive ships.

Multiple Destroyers have been shown getting destroyed by things much smaller (A-Wing, meteors not traveling at high velocity.

The Galaxy class is nimble, but lacks any exterior support like fighters and bombers.

I also doubt the small lasers of the Destroyers and Galaxy would be able to break through the Battlecruisers shields, let alone get through the density of the hull in a short amount of time.

>Also, gg if a squad of Space Marines are on board.

>>48134296
True. If you look at them as generic Sci Fi, it doesn't mean much.

But god damn I was PISSED at the Khan remake for several reasons.

1) YOU BOILED DOWN THE SEARCH OF SPOCK, A DEEPLY EMOTIONAL MOVIE, TO AROUND FIVE FUCKING MINUTES. FUCK YOU JJ, FUCK YOU.

2) Why the hell is that bitch Cumberbatch cast as Khan? Khan needs another hispanic dude to play him. Benicio del Toro >>>> Cumberbatch. I would watch the shit out of a Star Trek movie with del Toro playing Khan.

>>48134296
>>48134224
Is this a meme or is this samefaggotry?

>>48134349
Is what a meme?
That Abrams Star Trek films aren't very good Star Trek films but are okay generic scifi films?

>>48134349
What do you mean? It's not a meme or same faggotry. Last I heard about the new Star Trek service, it was going to be exclusive to CBS streaming service and not shown on TV.

Fuck that.

>>48132460
There has been descriptions like "continent sized petals of flame." Mentioned with battleship weapons.
The exterminatus weapons are for organizations other than the Navy who can't reliably have a battleship too hand.

>>48134345
I love Star Trek but cared a lot less.
I knew what I was expecting and so pretty much nothing surprised me.
I actually kinda hoped the ending would be different, based on that one line Khan gave Kirk;
>"In other lifetime, we could have been friends."
It'd be kinda amusing if that panned out and Khan ended up becoming something like the new universe Enterpises's version of Worf crossed with Data; violent and aggressive but highly analytical too.

>>48134389
Both posts ended with fuck that noise, seems kind of strange.
Though I do agree that CBS is being retarded.

>>48134449
I didn't even know anyone else responded at the time.
I'm already paying for Hulu, Netflix, AND Amazon Prime, not paying for another thing just for one goddamn show.

>>48133517
Phasers don't burn through half a kilometer of reinforced adamantite in .7 seconds. To qualify as a Lance the shot must be capable of burning a hole through a ship in one shot and most capital ships are at least .5 km abeam.

>>48134345
JJ's movies are all style over substance. The dude (or more accurately his producers) has an absolute disdain for his audience and assumes that anyone who goes to watch his movies is a mouth breathing retard that creams themselves at quips and bright explosions. Nu-Trek should have been given to Sam Raimi, Peter Jackson, Bryan Singer or fucking anyone else who has a history of adapting an already existing product and keeping it faithful.

>>48133587
Then how does it take Voyager a bazillion years to cross the delta quadrant while a Star Wars ship can make a day trip to the other side of the galaxy?

>>48133517
Assuming they can get off a second phaser shot, and that it would be enough to penetrate the meters of space metal that makes up the entirety of the 40k ship. Keeping in mind the philosophies of both factions, the ST ship may manage to try and contact the 40k ship, but probably not before the 40k ship immediately opens fire on what is clearly some sort of unknown xeno threat. I imagine the Galaxy would get shredded before it even realized that giant ass thing was a space ship.

>>48133689
An acceptable answer.

>>48119408
>Stupidly overpowered, too. Slags continents.
The Enterprise-D can crack planets in half.

>>48134542
Amen to that. The only thing I really liked that JJ Abrams created was that show Fringe. Star Wars Episode VII was better than the prequels.... but that bar is set so low it isn't anything worth boasting about.

>>48134647
Fringe was pretty great actually.
Though the hilarity of Fox finally deciding that the best replacement for the X-Files scifi slot was...another version of X-Files amused me greatly.
Almost Human was cool too because Karl Urban is tons of fun.

>>48134554
What about the Federation starships screams "Xeno"? That they aren't of a recognizeable design? They certainly don't scream Chaos or Nekron or Ork. You COULD mistake them for a plain Eldar craft, I suppose.

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Star Trek would have the odd advantage of really rapid re-positioning, they could just pop around the 40k or Wars vessel and keep poking at it (even to the point of firing from 'invisible angles' due to exploiting lightspeed sensor readings.) At least until they sustain a solid hit and their dilithium crystals fracture and half the bridge panels explode due to linked plasma circuits or some shit.

However Picard Maneuver is probably similar to some tricky eldar shit, as 40k vessels ALL carry psychers and psychic navigators, they're likely to be able to use some level of astrogation to account for this trickery. Not that it will help targeting 'that' much as communication within 40k vessels is notoriously spotty even without active battle damage.

>>48134515
Don't they? I honestly don't remember that episode where Scotty goes

>Aye its no use cap'n, our phasers can only burn through adamantite in 0.71 seconds. We canee get their void shields down even though we can sustain firing at them for hours outside of their effective range because the rules in Rogue Trader and BFG clearly limit the range of their scanning and all of their broadside and lance weapons to less than the range of our phasers. Also we can fire our torpedoes millions of kilometers outside the range of their Nova Cannon, but its just no use.

>>48134693
I think that they don't even slightly look like the other ships in 40k. so they would almost certainly assume that it's a xeno ship, lack of religious iconography would be a big tell in itself. That said star trek ships hail god damned everybody and there are almost always xenos on board and they are not hiding this fact. In a way they are thus literally screaming Xeno.

>>48134693
It's clearly not an Imperium ship, the architecture and technology are completely alien, so the inhabitants might as well be too. That's just the kind of mindset that 40k humans have in comparison to the Federation. Unless they both come into this fantasy battle with full knowledge of eachother and eachother's fluff, the dainty curiosity of the Galaxy's crew would doom them to the rampant xenophobia and warlike mindset of the Imperium.

>>48133751
In the Destiny novels they bring EVERYTHING to bear against a Borg which has finally grown serious. Genesis devices, those cloaks which let you phase through matter, everything.
It still doesn't work, they guilt a god race into poofing the Borg because they accidentally created them

>>48134773
The Federation use Xeno races on their ships, enough of a reason for the Imperiium to try and destroy them anyway.

>>48134738
Also, considering that pretty much anything in 40k takes a long time by Trek or Star Wars standards, reacting to a fast trick like the Picard Maneuver would be tough. In Rogue Trader a single tun is 30 minutes. It could easily take an hour for 40k ships simply to make a U turn, or half an hour to line up a shot and fire a single broadside.

Star Trek wins this one due to speed.

The Enterprise can zip around and fight at warp speed...that is superluminal, folks, faster than the speed of light.

They zoom by so fast the other two can't even see them, and blast them to pieces with phaser and torp fire. It isn't really a contest.

It's worse than jet fighters against biplanes.

Personally not a fan of Trek, I'm more of a Star Wars fan...but the technology of Trek is too much for SW or 40k to handle.

>>48134553
Hyperspace lanes.

>>48134743
I have never seen a single ST episode where a phaser cut anything larger than a lander in half. Lances do that to vessels magnitudes larger than the Galaxy-class. There are some sparks, the ship shakes, consoles explode and wound generic crewman #3-7, a burnt hole in the hull is left but never a slab of ship a quarter-kilometer in size being cut free.

Point me to an episode from any series that shows a Federation ship doing that with phasers and I'll concede.

>>48134867
Are important only because otherwise there is a risk of hitting things, they aren't structures or anything, it's just a map that says this area is safe to travel through.

>>48134888
When they first encounter a borg cube in TNG they shoot it with phasers and actually punch some holes in it.

The borg being the borg, it repairs and adapts, but a borg cube is a big thing and they did inflict some visible (if temporary) damage.

>>48134841
This is countered by the relative invulnerability of an Imperium capital ship to something so much smaller, though. On top of that, to immediately adopt a rapid hit and run tactic would probably only happen if the ST captain knew what they were getting into. By the time they've exhausted the more conventional strategies and realized that the Imperium ship wouldn't have a solid counter to rapid constant warp jumps, they'd very likely be overwhelmed.

>>48134913
Crossing a major chunk of the galaxy at Ludicrous Speed almost ensures you are going to hit a LOT of things, unless you have a pre-mapped safe route.

>>48134913
>logic
HYPERSPACE
LANES
SW warp is faster but ST warp is far more maneuverable

>>48134888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds

>>48134938
The Imperium ship, by sheer size and design, practically screams "you won't win a slug-fest".
Much moreso than Borg Cubes or anything else.

>>48134743
>RT/BFG limits scan range and weapons to less than star trek
What are the ranges for phasers? Sensors in 40k, according to rules, are system wide barring some kind of obstruction. Most Lance batteries can be accurately targeted to 240,000 kilometers for Godsbane-patterns, even farther for other patterns. I have never once seen a phaser engagement beyond visual range.

>>48134938
All they need to do is see that the Imperium ship doesn't have guns on the back and turns like a pig. At which point they just warp behind it and stay on its tail while the Imperium ship slowly tries to turn to bring its guns to bear.

>>48123307
BEST POST
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TSOP TSEB

>>48134967
>>48134983
And then the fighter squads are launched and either whittle it down or manage to get a boarding party on deck at which point everything comes to a pretty quick conclusion. This is assuming the Imperium ship's defensive turrets aren't strong enough to fuck the ST ship anyways.

>>48134979
The typical range of phasers is 300 000 km. Photon Torpedoes are 2.5 million.

>>48135034
Do 40k fighters have shields?

>>48134938
> only happen if the ST captain knew what they were getting into.
The IoM is not subtle. One look at their ships tells you what you need to know. Big, slow, ostentatious, with obvious guns in broadsides and some turrets along the top of the spine. At which point all a ST captain has to do is play like a deldar. Sit in the imperial's blind spot and shoot him in the ass till he dies.

Also, I think you're drastically overestimating 40k ship durability. Standard atomic weapons are in in Rogue Trader as things that can actually damage an IoM cruiser. A photon torpedo is more powerful than a nuke.

>>48121419

Both other ships can, however, go to warp without dying.

>>48134691
I loved Fringe because just how damn disturbing some of the episodes could be. There was a lot of horror wound up inside of episodes that would unravel the more you thought about them.

Frankly JJ needs to stop copying other people by using pre-made IP's and do more original sci fi. It's what he does best.

>>48135034
40k fighters are armed with things like lascannons, which are ground bound tank weapons that have trouble dealing with cold war era tank armor. In ST laser cannons like that would struggle to get through the navigational shields, let alone the actual shields. And IoM defensive turrets are things like autocannons, multilasers, and megabolters, which would have similar problems.

>>48134966
I get that they are effective at that scale but
>slab of ship a quarter-kilometer in size being cut free
>cutting clean through at least half a kilometer
Not of those examples really come close.
Repeated fire could do it in time but one or two phaser blasts are not even going to strain a void shield.

>>48134841
Imperium ships aren't slow at all and this is primarily Rogue Trader being fucking retarded in every aspect (not too surprising as FFG is staffed by morons). 40K ships can move at .75c.

>>48135049
40k fighters are actually 30m long or larger behemoths with their old void shields. They're more like small picket ships than starfighters you'll find in Star Wars.

>>48135046
So we are about on par phaser range wise.
>torpedoes
They are equal there too for IN torpedoes

So range wise we are at a stalemate. Now we have to take into account everything else.

>>48135117
> Imperium ships aren't slow at all
In terms of km travelled per second? No. But in terms of maneuverability they are quite slow. Turning takes a lot longer for a 40k ship, long enough for a ST ship to stay positioned behind it.

>>48135049
No, but they're much more expendable than anything a person who grew up in the Federation would expect.

>>48135059
Imperium shields can likely shrug off at least some photon torpedos, and even if they broke the shields, the Imperium ship could take a lot of punishment before it gets crippled in any significant way. Meanwhile, one direct hit on the Federation ship would probably be enough.

>>48135101
Can Federation shields stop a direct charge from a fighter of that size? The Imperium doesn't mourn a few losses too hard.

>>48132460
Exterminatus weapons come in a variety of flavors that do a variety of jobs. You can spend an hour or more bombing the shit out of a planet with a couple Battle Barges or Battleships to cause the planet to break up into large chunks, or you can load and fire a single cyclonic torpedo that scatters the planet across the system as an asteroid field.

>>48135117
Yes at full burn. Rogue trader isn't all that bad at representing it as combat manouvering speeds of between 100000-200000km are not unreasonable for the inertia of a 6.4 megatonne vessel.

>>48135148
Except they aren't? Unless it's a true behemoth that suffers from turning problems from it sheer mass, but stuff like Strike Cruises can execute barrel rolls.

>>48135143
No. 1 void unit is 10,000 km. The average IoM macrocannon has a 6 VU optimum range and a 12 VU max range. So that's 60,000 km optimum and 120,000 km maximum. Phasers outrange them. IoM torpedoes have reach, but also travel time. It takes them a good half an hour to go 120,000 km, meaning the ST ship has plenty of time to move out of the way.

>>48135194
No. They fucking horrible because they're largely made in accordance with 40k memes instead of the fluff, and completely fucked up the weight values for ships. Some ships in Rogue Trader are so light for their size the only explanation is that they're made of foam or hollow. I repeat, FFG are a bunch of third party morons.

>>48135214
>torpedoes taking half an hour to travel 120k km
I really wish people in these threads actually were knowledgeable about 40k and read most of the books.

>>48135102
Wouldn't they though? In Rogue Trader even a mining laser is enough to take down a Void Shield. Void Shields are lost whenever they take damage, which can be one broadside out of a dozen hitting. Once they're gone they're gone for about 30 minutes. In RT can't torpedoes move through void shields? So why can't photon torpedoes?

Also that Borg Cube is supposed to be 3km in length, and it was shot through no problem in the beginning. Besides it doesn't matter if it can cut through or not considering that the ST ships can accurately target the Bridge of most Imperium ships, but the Imperium doesn't really have that luxury. Once they take the Bridge down they're free to slowly whittle it apart at their leisure.

>>48135101
Fighters are interceptors and turret suppressors. Bombers are what would engage the galaxy and they drop multi-megatonne penetraitors within shield envelopes. At around 50-60 meters in size they come about to the size of small combat frigates in ST/SW in squadrons of 10.

And the Mars can launch 4 squadrons in one go.

>>48135204
How does it handle changes in direction with all that momentum without tearing itself apart? 40k actually seems to come closer to actual space physics compared to the Star Wars and Star Trek, oddly enough.

>>48135249
We're going off the hard rules of RT and BFG here. Maybe you should read those books first.

>>48135174
> Imperium shields can likely shrug off at least some photon torpedos
Unlikely. An atomic weapon in RT does a bit more damage than the average macrocannon shell (1d10+6 as opposed to the usual 1d10+2). Photon torpedoes are at least as powerful, so the ST ship has a weapon that fires shots that can damage a IoM cruiser. 2 photon torpedoes to knock down the void shields, which will take at least several minutes to come back up, then hammer at the rear armor which, while strong enough to take a few hits, is still capable of being damaged by an atomic. Give the ST ship enough time, as the IoM cruiser struggles to turn to present its own weapons, and it can kill an IoM cruiser.

>>48135214
Macros!=lances
You say phasers are at least Lance equivalents so that's what we're discussing. Titanforge lances (the standard IN lance) has a base engagement of 260,000 km in the FFG RT book which technically isn't really cannon but it's the closest we have to hard numbers.

>>48135249
In Rogue Trader a torpedo travels 10 VUs per strategic turn. 1 VU is 10,000 km, so 10 VU is 100,000 km. A strategic turn is half an hour.

Imperium torpedoes travel at a speed of 200,000 km/hour. It would take an hour for them to reach a ship that was sniping from 200,000 km, which is still within Trek phaser range.

>>48135279
40k ships have a combat speed of .75c their torpedoes must be significantly faster than that to be of any use at all.

>>48135339
bfg rulebook gives a figure of 70000 or so leagues (aprox 400000km depending on which league you use) as the range of shorter range weapon batteries/lances.

>>48135279
BFG is so outdated it's worthless and RT is written by mongoloids who don't seem to realize how big the ships are they're writing rules for. Black Library is written far more recently (like last year recent) and is a first-party source as it's made by GW itself and not licensed out.

>The fire dissipated, leaving a dull glow behind. It backlit a cemetery of colliding fragments and massive tombs. There was no counting how many smaller ships had died.
>It was a blow that had broken entire enemy navies. Here, it left behind an armada. Haloed by flame, venting gases, bristling with ballistic anger, the orks left the orbit of Caldera. They came on in a single, massive wave.
>They encountered a storm of Imperial torpedoes launched in the wake of the nova cannon. The fleet from Terra formed a wide spear tip, leading with the Alcazar and the grand cruisers. The Mechanicus vessels spread out on either side. Lance and cannon fire streaked towards the orks. Even clustered, they covered a wider area. But the line had thinned.

From the Hunt for Vulkan, torpedoes strike Ork ships shortly after a Nova Cannon blast hit, meaning that as the Nova Cannon was a near-lightspeed round fired at a distance greater than one light minute, the torpedoes traveled over a light minute's distance at a very high percentage of C.

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>>48135339
Imperium lances have roughly the same range. A Titanforge lance has the same range as the Mars macrocannon.

>>48135305
>Give the ST ship enough time
That's the trick, though. The ST ship needs to evaluate an unknown enemy, figure out this weakness, get behind the thing, and get those shots off all while never taking one hit or being boarded/bombed out. Considering the earlier mentioned point that the Imperium ship would engage immediately upon detecting what seems to be filthy xenos, the Federation ship would need a lot of luck to come out as anything other than space dust, let alone the victor.

>>48135349
And Rogue Trader isn't useful as a source because their numbers are fucked and don't reflect the lore at all. It's a garbage third party source made by people who regularly fuck up 40k information.

>>48135437
>made by people who regularly fuck up 40k information.
Literally no different from GW themselves.

>>48135253
Game mechanics!=canon fluff

Void shields require a sustained amount of high damage to drop. Hits that DO drop them are meant to represent such blows while everything else either misses or is deflected. Just like HP are are abstract in DnD.

A single strike unless it is an exceptional hit won't drop a void shield easily and battlecruisers maintain several layers of them.

A half hour recharge is also a game mechanic as a shield technically has to be completely overloaded for such as shutdown. In practice, void shield layers are dropped as they build up to bleed off energy before being brought online again, you let your secondary and tertiary shields absorb the other strikes. It's a rolling wave of shield loads unless the enemy can bring again overwhelming amount of firepower to bare in a short time frame.

>>48135436
An Imperium ship takes quite a while to do anything, as pointed out 40k space combat takes place over the course of hours.

Also, macrocannon shells hit with the force of a nuke. ST ships deal with that fairly regularly. They can take a few hits. Also, the Imperium has no way of engaging a target at warp, and an ST ship can use warp to stay at range while it examines the Imperium ship.

>>48135416
See
>>48135413
Roguetrader by FFG is not canon. BFG is.

>>48135414
And some more significant speed of light torpedoes.

>At a distance of six thousand kilometres from the dead Nycton, the Probity banked round hard and launched a full spread of torpedoes after the Night Lords wreck. In two groups of three they slid from their tubes, puffs of frozen atmosphere following them out. They spread in a fan. Bright thruster jets burned cleanly against the dirty redness of the Ruinstorm, altering the munitions’ course sharply. Their hugeness gave them an illusion of lumbering elegance, when in truth they could run at a significant proportion of the speed of light.

From the Emperor Expects.

>>48135117
>40K ships can move at .75c.
It only takes them two weeks to get there. Maximum sustain acceleration is often less than 3g

>>48135249
Which ones? Half the books contradict the other half.

>>48135482
GW is the owner of the IP, they can't fuck up information because they are the information itself. If they "fuck something up" that means it was retconned. Like Black Templars being 1,500 marines and not 10,000.

>>48135515
Space Combat in 40k takes hours you mong because void shields need to be bombarded constantly in order for them to be overloaded, then penetrate the armor. If you fail and the void shields come back up, you have to repeat the same process all over again.

And macrocannons hit with far more force than "a nuke". Unless by "nuke" you mean "gigaton".

>>48135576
Nope. Combat speed is .75c. Not maximum acceleration. Single digit G acceleration rates is either outdated information from BFG long since ignored, or FFG being retards again and looking at a source that's over ten years old and editions and editions behind the times.

>>48135598
Modern books considering they are most relevant to the current state of the canon.

>>48135515
Imperium ships can do quite a lot within a short amount of time outside of an rpg, and Federation ships seem to only be as durable as their shields, which often require them to focus them in particular directions just to survive more than a hit or two and seem to be a massive drain on their energy. With constant harassment from the wings launched from the Imperium ship, the huge barrages of macro ammo (assuming ST shields are designed to stop such physical attacks) and a good shot from a lance don't give the Federation good odds.

>>48135631
>Combat speed is .75c

Have you got an actual source for that or are you just pulling it out of your ass.

>>48135515
My biggest issue with dealing with anything star trek is that the tech does whatever it needs to do for the plot at that time. While there is some of that in every setting 40k and SW are far more consistent with technology and capabilities than ST is. ST as mentioned by another anon, will come up with some crazy technobable technique/mcguffin that has never before existed using a shoe string and box of crackerjacks inserted into the warp core housing that allows them to escape/go back in time/destroy the unkillable foe/save the princess and then never touches it again. If it actually IS brought up as an easy solution to the problem it gets hand waved away as being too dangerous/inflammatory to space peace/morally wrong/racist this time around.

For example:
>can fight at warp speed
>except don't 99.9999% of the time when this would be advantageous and instead engage at point blank fire exchanges

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>>48135608
> Space Combat in 40k takes hours you mong because void shields need to be bombarded constantly in order for them to be overloaded, then penetrate the armor.
First off, two macrocannon hits are enough to knock down a cruiser's void shields. The problem isn't that the guns lack the power, it's the the ships they're mounted on take forever to bring them to bear and to reload them.

> And macrocannons hit with far more force than "a nuke". Unless by "nuke" you mean "gigaton".
Atomics are in Rogue Trader as dealing 1d10+6 damage. The standard macrocannon shell does 1d10+2. Star Trek ships both have defenses that can handle at least a few, and have weapons that can dish it out too.

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>>48133245
>Fantasy flight
>Canon

>>48135631
> Single digit G acceleration rates is either outdated information from BFG long since ignored, or FFG being retards again

So if it doesn't matter if it's BFG or FFG, if it disagrees with what you want it doesn't count?

>>48135714
Are you going to post an actual source besides third party bullshit that can't get anything right reflecting 40k fluff, from yields to ship masses?

RT is utter shit and useless as a source. The freelance writers (who aren't professional 40k authors either like Gav Thorpe) consistently fuck everything up- it's why the FFG RPG's are such a big damn mess.

>>48135714
>40k atomics are just dinky Manhattan Project bombs
You know we can make gigaton nuclear warheads today right?

Also FFG is not universe cannon to GW.

>>48135675
>“For the second time in less than an hour, space tore open. The reality fissure leapt and crackled like a luminous cephalopod, lashing tendrils of warp energy into real space that twisted out, fizzled and faded. Non-baryonic light flared brilliantly through the tear, backlighting the arriving ships. Monumental silhouettes, they were shot forward into real space. Four ships, one of them very large. And they were moving. Point seven five light at least, cutting straight towards Herodor. They did not slow down. They were moving at cruise speed. Attack Speed.” / The Saint: A Gaunt's Ghosts Omnibus, p.893 & 894

As requested.

>>48135760
Okay, so no FFG because it's 3rd party, and no BFG because it's outdated.

Where are you getting your numbers then?

>>48135760
Its the best source of information for individual ship abilities in 40k because it uses consistent numerical data and there are plenty of other sources that agree with it, including BFG. Just because it ruins your powerwanking fantasy doesn't mean it's utter shit.

So what would happen if the Imperium ship just opened up a Warp hole near the Federation ship? All that ST tech hasn't touched Gellar Fields, and a Federation crew ain't gonna do much to a daemon infestation.

>>48135744
Of course it doesn't. FFG are third party incompetents who can't writer for shit and BFG is SEVENTEEN FUCKING YEARS OLD. Unless you're being purposely obtuse you can easily see how a source that's older than the fucking 4th edition no longer reflects the modern setting. Aramada is twelve years old now as well.

>>48135837
Get a source that isn't twelve fucking years old at minimum then. New Material > Old Material.

>>48135862
>Its old so it isn't good.

Lol get the fuck out of here with that shit.

>>48135760
WOAH! I can see the argument that the (attempted) balance of rules for a game don't reflect fluff accurately, but Rogue Trader is fucking fun and you need to eat a dick.

>>48135779
They give the fireball of the atomic as 5 to 10 km across. That's about the Tsar bomba, which was 50 MT and had a fireball about 8 km across. So the atomic in RT is about 50 MT, give or take a few, and is stronger than a macrocannon shell, which puts the macrocannon shell at somewhere below 50 MT.

>>48135855
Federation is soulless, so nothing to attract daemons.

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What amuses me the most is how we've all basically acknowledged that, short of the occasional planet killers (which both Trek and 40k have in far more plentiful supply) and warp capable battles moon Star Wars has nothing to bring to the battle but slightly more polished IG troopers and droid armies

They've basically been sidelined in this arguement as while heftier than the Trek vessels they lack their maneuverability and technological flexibility. While having better upkeep and more uniformly equipment than 40k vessels they simply lack the brute force and firepower to make good on any advantages they may have.

If they fight tTek they're gunna get telefragged or some other unsporting application of high level physics dickery... if they fight 40k they're going to have fighter-sized skull torpedes slam into the bridge and vomit out death cyborgs with drills for arms and grenade launchers for dicks.

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>>48135888
Sorry, GW doesn't care.

>>48135954
Star Wars has always been low end outside of the delusions of some fans. Unlike Star Trek or 40k, high yields have always been of questionable canonicity, as the 200 gigatons per shot for turbolasers in the Attack of the Clones ICS book directly contradicts the visuals in the movies (and the mental gymnastics required to explain how a snub fighter like an X-Wing can kill a Star Destroyer despite obviously not nearly having gigatons in firepower). Finally with the retconn of the Expanded Universe and the hours of footage we have from the 3D Clone Wars TV show, we can safely put the idea of Star Wars having powerful ships to rest.

https://youtu.be/e0Hf4Zend_Q

RIP Warsies. If these ships had gigaton, fuck even megaton level firepower, there should be giant explosions of energy obscuring most of the screen so we can't even see. Not to mention all the droids and clones exposed to the blasts outside of the ship's hull should be instantly vaporized.

>>48135957
That's a terrible fucking argument, the fluff doesn't supersede the rules just because its newer and the rules in 40k trump the fluff every time when figuring out how strong they are. Just because you're the sort of person who jerks it to their Imperium power fantasies, and just because GW consistently release more and more crap that ups the ante and their power gap, doesn't mean that the Mars Battlecruiser has any chance against a Galaxy-class Federation ship.

>>48136085
>the fluff doesn't supersede the rules just because its newer and the rules in 40k trump the fluff every time when figuring out how strong they are

are you retarded? of course fluff > rules when discussing fluff which is what this is

fluff is the actual representation of 40k not fucking game rules and mechanics

Someone did a breakdown of 40k ranges here using the BFG book.
http://www.lead-rising.com/2015/10/bfg-sense-of-scale.html

tl;dr, Imperium standard 30cm cruiser guns have a max range of a bit under 200,000 km.

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498KB, 300x222px

>>48136132
>fluff is the actual representation of 40k not fucking game rules and mechanics

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50KB, 801x540px

>>48136183
>I don't like it so it isn't true!

>>48136183
It's true, though. The rules are made for a game to be fun, the fluff doesn't have to be fair or work out so mathematically.

>>48136183
>>48136217
>The rules of a game are not representative of that game

That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Is monopoly about performing rectal examinations because someone at Hasbro included Uncle Pennybags in their fan-fiction?

>>48136348
Monopoly isn't a setting.