I want to run a super advanced sci-fi/fantasy adventure,

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I'm kinda thinking the setting will be in the middle ground between Blame and Numenera, with some Culture and eclipse phase ideas thrown in. the players would be residents of some massively developed system, attempting to utilize technology beyond their comprehension to glimpse the working and purpose of the greater universe

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>>48059535
>>48059251
>>48059238
>>48059220


I love shit like this because this is how I would view "science-magic/magitech" in my mind.

To bad there are so many people who say that magic has to be this mysterious force that no one understands even if the fireball spell is completely understood and repeatable.

>>48059220
You should try Sufficiently Advanced, then.

>>48059220
Go read Blame!

>>48059535
>>48059220
>>48059238
What is being depicted here?

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>>48061031
I'd say 3 Ringworlds being transported by a mega-engine.

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>>48061089
here's another shot

There's a picture I saw on here a very long time ago and haven't since.

It was some sort of giant space-construction site, around a huge tank with what looked like a massive fetus inside it.

The filename was called "Making Gods" if that helps.

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>>48065385
Was it this?

>>48065590
No, it took place in high orbit of a planet, with ships and things moving around.

>>48065624
Oh, that does sound interesting. I'd like to see that. Someone deliver, please!

>>48059220
This is a great thread, thanks

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Are 1000 megastructures put together a gigastructure?

>>48059251
Literally why

Seriously coold thread.

>>48065624
Isn't it something from Mass Effect?

>>48068131
Nope, it resembled a human fetus, except for its size.

I hope I've not done that thing where I've made it up without realizing, again.

>>48060898
Mistranslation, it's 4.8x10^8

>>48059880

The key difference between magic and "SCIENCE" is the technobabble in between. If you explain holding a whole city sideways "because localized antigravity machines" or something then its SCIENCE. Magic explanations tend to just end at "because magic."

The other key difference is if you need a machine to do your laughing in the face of physics or not.

>>48068071

Its like a museum. They recreated the whole city.

Obviously its a waste of space to have it horizontal. Its a museum not for living in. So they used their mastery of gravity to build it sideways.

>>48059263
>>48059307
Why?

>>48068565
Use your imagination.

How about weather machines or atmospheric converters.

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>>48068426

I'm curious to what that symbol above it is. One of the other sttructures has the Sephirot floating above it.

>>48068235

Yeah but there are ways you can blend the two and it doesn't really require you to go into specifics to do it. What's important is explaining the effect and not the why. Even with enough SCIENCE it can still come off as magic just because the concept is far to out there to explain just like with magic

"The shapes are essential to such structures as outlined in Professor Rouses "Book of Changes" the symbols will cause a localized disruption in the gravitational fields that can by guided to a degree by selectively altering the intensity of their energy discharge but if you screw up the math on that then I suppose you can pass yourself off as a modern arts major instead of an engineer."

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You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.

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>>48068715
It's a Veve used in Voodoo, don't know the
Loa though. There are other religious symbols over the other structures.

>>48068795

Fun fact: The Shkadov Thruster can be adapted to work with black holes, potentially including the supermassive black hole at the heart of our galaxy.


I was hoping I might be the first person to think that one up, but no... of course not.

>>48067958
Newfags won't get this.

>>48068565
Why not?

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Hope for a planet.

Endless, terrifying revelations for the curious.

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>>48069046

>>48069046
>>48069090

In my mind, this is the "Sigil" of whatever science fantasy D&D universe that WotC will never make

How many nested ringworm can be in orbit around a star at varying inclinations and orbital planes, while ensuring at least 50% sunlight for the outermost ringworld?

How would setting a revolving ringworld to rotate about an axis colonel with on of its diameters effect perceived gravity on its surface?

What are some cool hyper-weapons you guys like?
Lasers so high up on the spectrum that the beam has a mass-energy equivalent to a small asteroid?
Strange matter conversion?
Artificial singularities?
Good old RKVs?
Localized vacuum colapse events?

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>>48070479
Punches

>>48070479
The Dyson-Nicolle laser- a Dyson sphere designed to focus the entire energy production of its sun into a single immense death beam of interstellar range.

>>48070553
>Type II's thinking they're hot shit
Kek, those things are PD on our warships.
t. Type III

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I love the idea of post singularity architecture

>>48070479
something that disrupts the fundamental force of gravity between particles in a local area

everything turns to dust, then the dust to particles, then the particles into minutia that will forever drift alone in the universe

>>48070698
Doesn't gravity generally only matter on larger scales?
What would be more damaging to a boulder; disrupting EM, or disrupting Gravity?

>>48070587

>k3 civ
>warships

wut
shouldn't you be off, like... knitting cosmic string into a sweater for post-heat-death?

>>48070698
Ah yes, the Reality Bomb. You didn't quite give the description the respect it deserves:
https://youtu.be/IvRSnDZvuuc?t=2m17s

>>48070479
Use dimensional phase technology to telefrag enemy planets with anti-matter asteroids.

>>48070479
WORMHOLES
FROM YOUR ENEMY TO THE SUN
FROM YOUR ENEMIES TO SPACE
FROM YOUR STARSHIPS TO RAMMING TARGETS
FRO\M YOUR ENEMIES TO INSIDE OTHER ENEMIES
FROM YOUR SHOOTING RANGE TO THEIR BEDROOM
but really, the scariest shit out there is nannites

>>48070543
Thank you for this picture
I've had a concept for a super hero game where one of the characters gets a hold of this thing called a WAR Suit which was built by this ancient civilization for their version of Armageddon that they called "The First and Final Conflict" basically this huge crisis crossover event to determine the fate of all reality
It has the power to destroy entire solar systems by itself and is powered by Twelve Stars arranged in a dodecahedron and kept inside a tesseract inside the suit

I'm using that pic for what it looks like in action

>>48072282
>spoiler

Is that some sort of retrovirus that ultimately creates nanny states, weakening the enemy to indoctrination and takeover?

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>>48070479
its all about teleporting neutronium killbots and antimatter into their everything

>>48071108
Nah senpai, you're thinking of K4s.

>>48070553
Force Awakens was ass.

>>48076067
Amen.

>>48070479
Tachyon projectors that retroactively destroy their targets.
CTLCs used to prevent the target species from evolving in the first place.

>>48059220
You guys should read some Alastair Reynolds if you have time for awe and wonder. Start with Revelation Space and go from there. His books are full of megastructures and megaweapons and other cool sci-fi bits. Even a few instances of megaflora and religion grown to... I'm starting to blabber.

>>48077144
I've read all his Revelation Space stuff, are his other books on par?

>>48077188
I'm a fan, so my answer might not be objective. Again, if you have nothing better to do you might as well read all of it. I think I have, minus the Doctor Who book.
They're generally an interesting read. The one-off books like Terminal Planet, Pushing Ice and Century rain are wild rides, as he does them, through worlds with fantastic sci-fi premises. He does the whole journey of exploration and discovery of the unimaginable thing quite well.
He also revisits same themes in several books, but in a different light. For example seedships, the meaning of intelligence and individuality and Big Dumb/Alien Objects in the Poseidon's Children trilogy. The world there is of a more enlightened, happier future humanity than in Revelation Space, but he still finds room for things to go interesting.

His short stories are also interesting. Minla's Flowers is fun.

>>48077567
Cool thanks

>>48077144
Any idea where you can get them for free? I'm skint.

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How big does something have to be to count as a megastructure?

What kind of government would exist in the far future, assuming four things:
1) The human condition is fundamentally unchanged; Humans are functionally immortal and diseases and infirmity has all but been eradicated, but the average human is as strong and intelligent, with the same thoughts and emotions, as a modern human.
2) There is no strong AI; extremely powerful, dynamic, and intelligent expert system exist, but the secret to "human-like" intelligence has not yet been found.
3) True FTL exists, and is not subject to the normal problems of time travel and the like.
4) Human civilization is functionally post-scarcity; Humanity is extremely proficient in mass-energy conversion, sub-atomic engineering, and field manipulation. The only "scarce" resource is energy itself.

How would such a civilization run itself, if at all? How would it divide itself up? How would it act in relation to other civilizations, both more and less advanced?

Let's also say that this civilization is the result of a highly "puritanical" social movement that sought to (and succeeded) "freeze" human society and morals in the mid 21st century, so no super-hedonist culture clones or ascetic God-men.

TL;DR: If you gave the people of Earth today access to FTL sans time-distortion and near perfect control over matter (and thus the ability to construct mega-structures), what would happen?

>>48078044
I downloaded The Alastair Reynolds Audio Book Collection torrent from the Pirate Bay a while back, It's missing a few newer ones. There are ebook collection torrents of his there too.

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>>48070091
That was a very good book once you get through the OH SO FUCKING TERRIBLE HOLY FUCKING SHIT ITS LIKE A BAND SAW ON THE BRAIN way it was written.

I have always wanted to play a game set in the Common Wealth Saga

>>48065863
Thus is literally mass effects presidium

What's the Type 3 version of a dyson sphere?
Moving all the stars in a galaxy into a stable spherical configuration, and building a shell around that, or just building dyson spheres around all the stars and linking them with giant space bridges.

Bonus points if this compressed, sphereical galaxy is just big enough to not collapse into a singular black hole.

>>48068196
That sounds like the ending from 2001 space odyssey

>>48068430
Soooo... they're using pictures of old buildings.,... as decoration? or camouflage?

>>48079385
Huh, that didn't occur to me at the time, but I guess the similarity is there.

What do you guys like more; baseline humans who have collectively achieved godlike status through technology and civilization, or individualistic humans with no civilization to speak of that have reached godlike status through augmentation and rapidly accelerating self-improvement.

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This thread make me feel like I am seeing stages from a shmup. Good work /tg/, I knew I could always count on you.

Green leader launching.

>>48079700
>pic
Why are geometric ships always the best.

>>48079798
To be fair, I think they wouldn't be nearly as good without the chrome finish.

>>48079823
Personally, I really like matte dark grey for my [screams geometrically] ships.

>>48079798
>>48079823
>>48080003
Reminds me of Flight of the Navigator in a way.

>>48064788
What is this from? It looks cool as shit.

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>>48080732

>>48060269
>Culture ship isn't a perfectly smooth surface unless its a specialized warship
Do artists even read the source material?

>>48081875
Never ever.

>>48082120
>That fractal structure too
Its just painful, should I put a request for something Culture related in a draw thread?

How do you feel about bush robots?

>>48082322
No idea what that is.

>>48082430
Like swarms of nanobots, but better.

>imagine a central core, that splits into four arms in a tetrahedral fashion.
>at the end of each arm is a node, upon which three more smaller arms split, again maintaining the tetrahedral pattern of the joints
>again these split into yet smaller arms, and yet again and again and again
>after many such splits, the finest and smallest of arms can manipulate molecules themselves; each with millions upon millions of degrees of freedom.

TL;DR: A fractal robot.

>>48082543
So a robot with Great Old One manipulator appendages?

>>48082630
>>48082543
aka cornucopia machines

>>48082630
Pretty much.

>>48059322
>Vavatch Orbital
Mein Cultured individual

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It's almost like you're forgetting these games existed

>>48059220
>>48059238
>>48059535
Is that a solar-system sized ram engine?

>>48083287
The Ark was beautiful. I say that with all the honesty left to me. I'd have loved to have lived on it.

>>48083360
>you will never live on any megastructure.
Just think of how wonderful all of humanity living on a single ringworld around Earth would be, even if we hit a population of ten billion.
As of now, you would have 1 ten billionth of an Earth to call your own; on a ringworld, you would have 3 ten thousandths of an Earth to own. Can you imagine having 30 million times as much space as you do now, to with as you please?
Now imagine if we build a whole bunch of those rings, let's say 60, but perpendicular to the solar plane. each one slightly larger than the previous, offset by ten degrees. They only overlap fully above the Sun's poles, and yet we've constructed something comparable to a dyson sphere where every square inch of surface area is habitable.
Can you imagine having that much space to live in?
Can you imagine how many more people could be born, without ever having to worry about overcrowding?

And even that is a poorly optimized design; I'm sure there's a way to maximize overall living area with no overlap with some really clever orbital swarms.

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>>48083327
a means to travel in style and comfort

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Just remembered I had this, tucked away in some miscellenious folder.

Don't know what it's from.

>>48083533
>you will never be a part of a super-civilization who have literally built a gigantic system-sized "ship" to fuck around the universe in style
>you keep your homesystem as is for the sake of tradition and nostalgia.

>>48083433
And that's why I want to upload my consciousness, because I'd be immortal.

>>48061089
I know this is the wrong board, but damn do I want vidya set in Destiny's "Golden Age" of human space exploration

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>>48083664
I want a hypertech/megastructure version of supcom desu.

Can you imagine fighting on a galactic (or at least arm/ local sector) scale, constructing ring worlds, dyson spheres, stellar engines, and all manner of stuff like that; ordering around fleets of hundred of billions of billions of self-replicating war machines, involving massive space battles and the rare landings to capture mega-structures that would be too expensive to rebuild.

Consumer quantum-computers when.

>>48083664
Yeah, that'd be awesome.

I can't help but shake the feeling that it'd come off a bit like Star Citizen, though.

>>48084478
I, too, wish to live inside a giant Faberge egg.

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>>48083433
>>48083360

I think its a pity that Human interaction with Forerunner mega structures is when they destroy them.

Imagine colonizing a HALO, or the Ark.

>>48085701
>>48085717
Anybody else got any fractal construction?

>>48085692
I can only get so hard, anon

>>48083570

The fact that it mentiones Conjoiner's suggest it's from one of Alistair Reynold's Revelation space books.

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>>48072282

>>48083570
>>48086533
It's the main ship from his Revelation Space book series.
https://youtu.be/Po7-2mzirLM?t=2254 <- First description of the levels in the huge old ship, about 10 minutes from the linked time.

>>48060208
brian

brian

brian what are you doing

>either that or someone really upscaled a battletech castle brian

>>48060975
that's from the smoke ring series, isn't it? Good series that. Not quite a megastructure, it's more a torus of atmosphere around a sun, filled with giant floating trees and shit. Neat way of getting a low-tech zero-g setting.

>>48072282
>but really, the scariest shit out there is
The best bit in Echopraxia was when the baseline biologist realised what kind of insanely-advanced shit was going on on the station, and grabbed a flamethrower to fuck that shit right up.

Nano dislikes heat, yo.

>>48085709
This is my favourite Giger work.

>>48087135
I don't know why but I legitimately thought you were trolling and that pic was taken from Blame! Or Biomega or something.

>>48079798
Stealth shaping & armor sloping. Don't shoot at it; you'll just make it angry.

>>48087697
>not realizing that geometric shapes like above give the flat of the surfaces to enemies at all angles in evasive maneuvers and ambush angles
>not realizing that many smooth and shiny sides would give the clearest picture on radar or even visually
We keep our jets matte and with the thinnest profile from as many angles as possible for reasons.

>>48083737
God no, that's be fucking terrible. SupCom is hard enough to play as it is with all the shit that you need to keep track of.

I'd rather just have a version of SupCom that would let me share command with one or more of my friends, so one of us could focus on the economy and building while everyone else handles all the different military arms. In fact, I'd like any RTS that let me do that.

Fuck micro, let me delegate.

>>48085709
I'm not good with heights. That is fucking horrifying to me.

WHY THE FUCK DOES NOBODY BUILD HANDRAILS ALONG THEIR BOTTOMLESS PITS!!! HOLY FUCKING SHIT NUGGETS BATMAN!

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Excellent thread.

>>48087950

You can actually do this in age of empires 2, at least the new steam version. Probably a few other RTS games to.

Also I imagine the star craft style game would just be stellaris but more complex and more high end sci-fi.

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>>48088073
>star craft style game

Good god im retarded, I meant supreme commander.

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>>48068901
Seems a bit too colorful to be Rorschach, but it's definitely got the fractal look going.

>>48087697
Geometric shapes look cool, but the original stealth fighter was all hard angles because they didn't have the computing power to do the maths for a better, less-angular design. Rad as fuck, but unlikely to be repeated.

I still like hard angles.

>>48089991
They actually had hard angles because we didn't have the tech for smooth angles in any field. They had to have a lot of radar funnels to make up for this which is why its 90% computer piloted as the turbulence corrections required are about 1/100th the time of human reactionary speed.
We can only do the smooth angles now as we have better engines that can cool their own exhaust and special paint that actually reflects radar on its own several hundred times better than the crude radar funnels before. Take both of those away on modern stealth jets and you'd have your average radar profile as the shape isn't as big an issue as it used to be.

>>48090122
Correction
smooth angles compatible with stealth technology*

Next thread, someone should post Hotel.

>>48090345
The manga that is filled with AI feels and a wonderful world?

>>48087950
>In fact, I'd like any RTS that let me do that.
Planetary Annihilation.

>>48087950
World in Conflict

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what adventure hooks can you think of for a party of recursively self improving troubleshooter bots and culture level starship avatars. This is at a roughly culture level tech, eclipse phase inspired setting.

>>48091715
Nexus dragons.
Neutronium golems.
Angry energy beings from an adjacent dimension where physical matter can't exist.

>>48091715
20th level wizards.

>>48091715
Rogue dark matter organisms are suppressing the local galaxy cluster's supernovas

Are you a bad enough T3 civilization to disrupt them and restore your planetary nebula formation rates?

>>48091715
Have this guy come to town
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sempiterne_the_Living_Quasar_%283.5e_Creature%29

>>48093742
I cannot read that name without mentally applying a dramatic echo effect.

>>48091715

Sublimed entities keep stealing their limbs at random moments.

>>48092414
Xeelee please go

>>48093960
Oh god it's contagious

>>48093960
>>48094813
SEM-PI-TERNE THE LIVING QUA-SAR!

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>>48093960
Honestly i think of it like that one energy being they met at a bar in futurama.

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How do you feel about post-scarcity super-tech civs that are nothing more than a giant military.

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>>48097484
Seems fine to me. I mean, the lazy, the sane, or the brilliant are off in simulspace heavens.

Only the real lunatics bother mucking around in the real world, building armadas and superweapons and having a grand old time.

>>48097484
They probably have a pretty good reason to have a giant military.

>>48097543
>Only the real lunatics bother mucking around in the real world, building armadas and superweapons and having a grand old time.

>you will never be a part of a civilization so advanced that you fight each other in real space for fun, and don't even have to care about dying, since you posses FTL mind-upload and don't have to worry about a loss of ego-continuity
>you will never be so advanced that virtual space has no actual benefits over real space
>you'll never fuck around with primitive sapients, uplifting them, and setting them against each other for shits and giggles when you're in a more strategic mood and have tired from flinging singularities at your bros over the past few hundred thousand years

>>48097550
They do, but I don't want to spoil the animu as it's pretty good ignoring the gratuitous fanservice

>>48045660
epic /pol/ meme dude

>>48097610
Space snails are the other dominant race in space and humanity and them are fighting for control of the galaxy, to be a citizen you gotta do a stint in the military.
There, no spoilers that wouldn't have been revealed in the first 30 seconds.
It's a good animu everyone should watch it.

>>48097750
Why are you linking to a dead thread?
Also thanks, it's pretty dank if I do say so myself :^)

>>48097780
>to be a citizen you gotta do a stint in the military.
Close; to be a citizen (for four weeks), you must serve for 145,000 waking hours in the military.
During those 4 weeks you are free to drink, eat, relax, and procreate as you want, and upon the end of those 4 weeks you go back into service.

*keep in mind that all waking hours are combat hours, as when not in combat you're kept in suspended animation.

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>>48097587
On the other hand, I'm not dying of common diseases, I can read, and I have reasonable life security.

Could be a lot worse.

>>48098214
>Could be a lot worse.
Yeah, but why settle? Anything less than the pursuit of immortality is a waste of time.

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>>48097543
I don't know what that is or where you got it, but it's making me think of album art. Scifi album art.

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>>48098263
Dude, you're on /tg/. Do you think getting quads will make you immortal?

Transhuman fanwank is all fine and good, but don't pretend you're somehow not mortal and insignificant.

>>48098317
>Do you think getting quads will make you immortal?
Nah, but it's fun to get quads regardless.

>but don't pretend you're somehow not mortal and insignificant.
I'm not pretending I'm not, why would I? The problem of immortality won't be solved by a single man. I'm just living my life in such a way that will help such a development occur, even in the most minimal of ways.

>TL;DR: the best way to achieve immortality if you're not a scientists is to be a good citizen and create a society where said scientists can flourish.

>>48060576
>NZSA

>>48099178
>New Zion

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>>48099268
>New Zealand

>>48099178
>>48099268
>New Zealand
desu, I always thought they were a province or vassal of Australia or something.

>>48098363
I just don't understand how immortality is not the absolute primary pursuit of all of mankind all the time.
I mean old age is still the number one cause of death in mankind, pretty much everyone is afraid of dying, and having to raise new generations and teach them science all the time is a colossal fucking waste of resources and time we could spend on things like colonizing space, making the economy better and fixing the world we fucked up.

And yet ironically enough the solution to this will most likely come sooner (via mind upload) from a field not particularly connected to the problem of mortality than from biology.

>>48100110
I sorta agree, except for three things.
1: Humans have never been particularly good at long term planning, even more so getting large groups of people on board with a long term plan.

2: A good chunk of humanity arguably doesn't deserve to live forever, or would otherwise be near-useless if they were immortal.

3: There is something to be said about fresh blood being brought into humanity, and the constant distillation of culture and society into younger generations.

Then there's 4 (which I really don't accept), which is that death and transience is a fundamental part of the human condition, and that you can't take that away without fundamentally changing how humans act and think.

>And yet ironically enough the solution to this will most likely come sooner (via mind upload) from a field not particularly connected to the problem of mortality than from biology.
God, I hope not. A hedonic treadmill would be one of the most ignoble ends imaginable for humanity.

>>48100233
>1: Humans have never been particularly good at long term planning, even more so getting large groups of people on board with a long term plan.
You don't need a particularly large group of people planning. You just need everyone individually thinking this through. And at least a third of mankind is capable of doing that.

>2: A good chunk of humanity arguably doesn't deserve to live forever, or would otherwise be near-useless if they were immortal.
So what? It would still benefit them and through them mankind as a whole.

>3: There is something to be said about fresh blood being brought into humanity, and the constant distillation of culture and society into younger generations.
I probably should have said "the stopping of aging" instead. If everyone stayed in their prime those downsides wouldn't happen.

>4: Death and transience is a fundamental part of the human condition, and that you can't take that away without fundamentally changing how humans act and think.
So what? This is just like saying: "reducing child mortality rates by hygiene has drastically altered the way humans live and behave".

>God, I hope not.
Not up to you. A lot of serious people project that even pessimistically the singularity will arrive well within our lifetimes, and mind uploads probably even sooner than that. Meanwhile the biological research into longevity makes practically no projections, because it's still very much in it's infancy.
Say hello to the matrix.

>>48100340
>You just need everyone individually thinking this through. And at least a third of mankind is capable of doing that.
A third of mankind devoting themselves to biological immortality is a third of mankind that actually isn't keeping civilization running; if you wanted that kind of focus on science, you'd need some damn amazing automation first.

>So what? It would still benefit them and through them mankind as a whole.
Why should it benefit them? Even if they don't age, they still consume resources. We don't really care about the mediocre consuming resources because eventually they'll grow old and die; given immortality, they are a constant, tumorous blight on civilization as a whole.

>I probably should have said "the stopping of aging" instead. If everyone stayed in their prime those downsides wouldn't happen.
Even if everyone stayed in their physical prime, they would still mentally mature. With children, you have blank slates coming into the world with no prejudice or bias, and they absorb, refine, and distill the very core essence of the dominant culture at the time.
For better or for worse, there's a reason why most cultural shifts or revolutions happen because of young-to-middle-aged people.

>So what? This is just like saying: "reducing child mortality rates by hygiene has drastically altered the way humans live and behave".
That was exactly my point, it's a semi-argument that doesn't really hold any weight, but is popular regardless.

>Not up to you
I never said it was?

>Say hello to the matrix
I would prefer if I didn't, and frankly, the continued prosperity and meaning of human civilization is contingent on humanity as a whole to look at true virtual reality, and to say "no".

>>48100441
>A third of mankind devoting themselves to biological immortality is a third of mankind that actually isn't keeping civilization running; if you wanted that kind of focus on science, you'd need some damn amazing automation first.
Nonono. Not devoting themselves to it. Just realizing that we should probably put more effort into this.

>given immortality, they are a constant, tumorous blight on civilization as a whole.
Wow what a despicable attitude.
They are still a part of civilization.
Also you keep forgetting that with everyone being immortal technological progress and thus new ways of finding resources would be a lot easier, so we would move to post scarcity very soon.

Also the percentage of alive mediocre people wouldn't change. There would still be just as many mediocre people after immortality as there are today if everyone stopped reproducing or at least reduced reproduction rate.
And if we don't we're doomed anyways, dumb people or not.

>With children, you have blank slates coming into the world with no prejudice or bias, and they absorb, refine, and distill the very core essence of the dominant cultu
re at the time.
That doesn't actually stop until puberty is completely completed in the mid twenties, and the fact that it stops is due to a physical change in brain chemistry and how the neural pathways are wired.

>I would prefer if I didn't, and frankly, the continued prosperity and meaning of human civilization is contingent on humanity as a whole to look at true virtual reality, and to say "no".
A) I disagree with the second part completely. There is no reason for anyone to stop being virtuous and to make progress just because the reality they spend their time in is virtual. The only way to gather new informational input is through examining the mindbogglingly vast real universe. And for that you still need progress.
B) Again, it doesn't matter what you prefer it will most likely happen. I am ambivalent on the topic, but you HAVE to prepare.

>>48100642
>Nonono. Not devoting themselves to it. Just realizing that we should probably put more effort into this.
"Realizing" and "doing" are two very, very, very different things.

>Wow what a despicable attitude.
No, just a realistic attitude.
It's a good thing that the mediocre eventually die.
It's a horrible thing that the great eventually die.
>They are still a part of civilization.
Unfortunately.

>Also you keep forgetting that with everyone being immortal technological progress and thus new ways of finding resources would be a lot easier, so we would move to post scarcity very soon.
Not necessarily, and that only happens if people literally stop having children.

>And if we don't we're doomed anyways, dumb people or not.
How so? A mortal humanity practicing eugenics would likely be far, far more successful than an immortal humanity fully of normal humans.

>That doesn't actually stop until puberty is completely completed in the mid twenties, and the fact that it stops is due to a physical change in brain chemistry and how the neural pathways are wired.
Yes, but it still requires for children to be born. Mental maturation only occurs after that final change in brain chemistry.

>A)
I find your optimism refreshing, but what you describe is only possible if we get rid of the "mediocre, tumorous blight" that I am talking about.

>B)
Of course, it will most definitely become possible.
It doesn't mean we, as a species, have to say "yes". Knowledge is knowledge until we turn it into technology.

>>48100768
stop being a taint about the ancient egos, we can easily afford to give them each their own continent sized orbital, its not like we have a shortage

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What would you build on a developing planet to influence/fuck with the natives?

>>48100768
>How so? A mortal humanity practicing eugenics would likely be far, far more successful than an immortal humanity fully of normal humans.
Do you have literally any idea about biology?
Eugenic theory is simply speaking wrong.

And again. If we don't start to have less offspring (we already are doing this, population will level out soon) we will run out of resources. What is it to you if mediocre people of the same percentage as we have today will also consume resources, when you have more than enough for everyone thanks to people moving post scarcity thanks to the advances, longer youth would mean for science.

>still requires children to be born
How so? If we stop everyone from maturing past that period where thought structures change to more rigid ones, we don't need new children except to replace people dying from disease etc.

>A)
Absolutely not. What the fuck are you even on about. Mediocre people don't stop non mediocre people from getting technological advancements. Again, the percentages would still be the same as today, and the mediocre people would be content and less likely to bother with things that interfere with progress.

>B)
No i mean that it will happen. Both if you look at the situation right now, and if you look at things from an evolutionary perspective. Virtual realities offer so much freedom that the real world cannot, that it is absolutely impossible for a species so obsessed with experiencing things to not try it.

>>48101119
Add some signature fossils, like a dinosaur holding a mobile telephone.

>>48100441
>With children, you have blank slates coming into the world with no prejudice or bias, and they absorb, refine, and distill the very core essence of the dominant culture at the time.
>For better or for worse, there's a reason why most cultural shifts or revolutions happen because of young-to-middle-aged people.
>For better or for worse
just looking at the most recent cultural revolution (circa 2007 to present) that's been pushed by the hyperliberal faggot millennials, I'm going to say "mostly for worse"

>>48101240
>Eugenic theory is simply speaking wrong.
Then how the fuck does husbandry work?

>What is it to you if mediocre people of the same percentage as we have today will also consume resources, when you have more than enough for everyone thanks to people moving post scarcity thanks to the advances, longer youth would mean for science.
Because the resources mediocre people consume could be consumed instead by non-mediocre people.

>How so? If we stop everyone from maturing past that period where thought structures change to more rigid ones, we don't need new children except to replace people dying from disease etc.
Because a matured and stable mind is GOOD, it just has the unfortunate effect of not being as open to change as the immature mind does.

>Absolutely not... with progress
Except that as I said, the mediocre people would only exist in this hypothetical society as a form of charity on the part of their betters. They are the literal definition of a welfare sink, serving only to make their caretakers feel good about themselves.

>No I mean... not try it
Then perhaps we, as a species, should be less concerned about experience, and more concerned about virtue. There are infinite worlds in virtual reality, but at the end of the day, you're still inside of a box. If we were truly concerned with experience, everyone we do would be about getting out of the boxes we find ourselves in, rather than building new ones to hide in.
According to your logic, we may as well just make everyone comatose and hook up an IV drip of LSD to them while automated machines take care of us. After all, dreams are as valid as reality, and virtual reality is nothing more than someone else's dream that you're living in.

>>48101119
A bunch of geometric shapes and inscriptions dealing with prime numbers and other fundamental mathematical concepts.

Oh, and the basics of elemental chemistry, as well as the principles behind nuclear fission.

>>48098214
Why don't you rub it in my face some more, Mister "I have life security and no incurable diseases"(?!)

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>>48101536
Haha! Socialized medicine! Low unemployment! Living wages! Mwahaha!

>>48101572
FUGGIN GOMMIES GIT OUT, THIS IS FREEDOM WEEK

>>48101503
>animal husbandry equates to weeding out mediocrity in humans
The human psyche is largely not genetic.

>Because the resources mediocre people consume could be consumed instead by non-mediocre people.
That's true today too, but we still have technological progress. If you're bothered by mediocre people in general, not just in the event of immortality, then i can't help you.

>Because a matured and stable mind is GOOD.
- he said, without giving any arguments for this.

>They are the literal definition of a welfare sink, serving only to make their caretakers feel good about themselves.
Are you out of your fucking mind?
Mediocre people can sometimes accidentally do something non-mediocre. They can combine their genes with someone else to produce someone non-mediocre.
We would keep mediocre people around for the same reason we keep mediocre people around today.
If you say that the only reason we don't holocaust everyone that's determined to be "mediocre" by some unfathomable standard is that we want to feel good about ourselves, you should reevaluate your views on the world.

>Then perhaps we, as a species, should be less concerned about experience, and more concerned about virtue.
That's again not something you or anyone or the species itself for that matter decides. This is the way we are.
There are also infinite worlds in the universe, but in the end you're still inside of a box in the multiverse, so unless you literally leave the universe immediately, and force everyone to do the same you are a bad person.

This makes no sense.

>If we were truly concerned with experience, everyone we do would be about getting out of the boxes we find ourselves in
No because exploration and experience is only good in contrast with stability.

>According to your logic,
Yes. That would be a viable thing, as long as it didn't have detrimental effect, they could still function perfectly and make progress for the real world and leave whenever they want.

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>>48101675
The dialectic dictates post scarcity societies must be brother communists, comrade.

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>>48101675
Hey, it's our freedom week too!

We just... you know, filed paperwork for it instead of starting a war.

It worked out fairly well.

>>48101733
All that talk and you couldn't point out that eugenics wouldn't get rid of mediocre or sub-par people, just redefine the baseline. Or that eugenics in humans is difficult as all hell because there are several billion of us, we mature slow, live long, gestate long, have low birth counts, and have a complete lack of isolation required to breed specific traits into a population.

>>48101811
Oh, quit lying. It's your "we lost so lets drink to forget!" Weekend. Don't lie.
i'm drunk and i love you don't hate me babe!

>>48101733
>The human psyche is largely not genetic.
That's debatable.

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>>48101833
Well his definition of "mediocrity" is not particularly well defined in either case so i just assumed the best and thought he had a fixed point below which people are considered mediocre.
And the other arguments could be countered with forcible alteration of humans.

>>48101876
No it's not. It is undebatable that a large portion of the human psyche has nothing to do with genetics.
pic sortof related.

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>>48101872
I don't hate anyone. I'm Canadian. It's against my religion.

Also, there's an old saying that any construction larger than 1000km is an ego trip.

Any construction larger than 1 AU is an ego trip with weaponizable aspects.

>>48101733
>The human psyche is largely not genetic.
[citation needed]

>That's true today too, but we still have technological progress.
Because mediocre people do the jobs that superior people can't be assed to do; in a post scarcity society, or even one with automation, the plebes won't even have that going for them.

>he said, without giving any arguments for this.
Not all cultural revolution is good, and having stable and set minds to preserve culture is just as important as having malleable and dynamic minds to refine it.

>Mediocre people can sometimes accidentally do something non-mediocre.
Then they aren't mediocre now are they? Regardless, such occurrences are obviously less common amongst the plebes. We can also assume two things:
1) no singular person will only ever be responsible for scientific advances: there might have possibly been a second Einstein, or a second Von Braun.

>If you... world.
I don't, because as of now, they're useful. They farm, they work, they move money around, they're an intrinsic part of our current civilization.

>That's again not something you or anyone or the species itself for that matter decides
And why not?
>This is the way we are.
And why ought we be beholden to the nature than blind Gaia has forced upon us? Why can we not be the masters of our own nature?

>This makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense, it means that we'll always have something to do and that we'll always be busy, that we'll always have a goal.

>No because exploration and experience is only good in contrast with stability.
Exploration and experience is only good if we force ourselves to also be ignorant?

>Yes. That would be ... want.
That's the point, and why it would have a detrimental effect. They wouldn't want to leave, except for the truly virtuous among them who decide to get off the hedonic treadmill.
For everyone else, assuming we maintain human nature, they're nothing more than an energy bill we keep running in order to feel good about ourselves.

>>48060269

MY EYES!

>>48101833
>All that talk and you couldn't point out that eugenics wouldn't get rid of mediocre or sub-par people, just redefine the baseline
It may redefine the baseline, but it could also tighten up the distribution of humans as well. A person of IQ 120 is certainly dumber than someone of IQ 125, but that's a very small difference than that of someone that is 80 to someone who is 100.

>there are several billion of us
More breeding stock

>we mature slow
Not a problem thanks to medical technology, we can stay alive longer and more easily screen for genetic defects.

>live long
More time to reproduce.

>gestate long
True, but again, 7 billion people to work with.

>low birth counts
Fertility enhancements, and even then, it's very easy for a mother to have 9-10 children over her lifetime, even without medical enhancement.

>complete lack of isolation
Sterilize those with dangerous or debilitating hereditary disease, pay good stock to breed, and pay bad stock to not breed.

>>48101916
A fucking comic? Fatness comparable with intelligence? Fuck off, anon.
It's downright obvious that intelligence is influence by genetics, if even just by showing that different species have different levels of intelligence.
A chimp is the closest relative humans have outside of humanity, and they're children when compared to humans, especially since we both come from a common ancestor.

The fact that WE are intelligent, and our evolutionary cousins are not, is undeniable proof that intelligence is genetic.

>>48102008
Don't hate it babe. I'll carve your name in the spacetime continuum using the very stars themselves if you'll be mine.

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>>48102117
Look, the last time someone collapsed the quantum vacuum into a brane-space configuration that spelled "Cynthia", it took us ages to get everything sorted out. Very nearly had to start the entire universe over.

Fucking romantics.

>>48102011
>citation needed.
Just look up literally any experiment with this. even the ones that supposedly determined how something was genetic, only did so with a "pedisposition towards" thing.
Off the top of my head, homosexuality, (prenatal endocrine influence), handedness (unknown influence), autism spectrum disorders (possibly immune system related)
>the plebes won't even have that going for them.
But the jobs would still be done, so technological progress would still happen just as now. Also it would be possible that mediocre people could be better motivated.

> having stable and set minds to preserve culture is just as important as having malleable and dynamic minds to refine it.
Stable is not an antithesis to malleable though.
Just because something can accept new input easily doesn't mean it will accept new input indiscriminately.

>Then they aren't mediocre
That means no one is actually mediocre though.

>Assume two things.
I'm sorry i literally didn't understand this.

>they're an intrinsic part of our current civilization.
See the above arguments for mediocre people being potentially useful genetically and intellectually.

>Why not?...masters of our own nature?
Because it's something inherent to our species. It's literally the source of all scientific progress.
Change this and you might as well give up your humanity and consider "superior" robots your children.

>always have a goal
That's the same even if everyone lives in a simulated reality most of their lives. People would still want to venture out. There's not just the internal universe of the simulation to explore but also the outside one, and people NEED new input. Which there's a lot of in the outside universe.

>ignorant
No. But comfortable. a virtual reality doesn't mean that you're ignorant. You can do science in VR.
Go and read "Otherland".

>detrimental effect
No reason given. So?
Literally every human wants to feel good. There will always be some virtuous ones too. No problem anywhere.

>>48102105
>It's downright obvious that intelligence is influence by genetics
That's a nice positive claim you're making there, i'll be waiting for the evidence now.

>different species.
We are not talking about different species though.
Unless you literally want to do extremely invasive genetic augmetation, or are planning for the next hundred million years ahead, this isn't a thing.
We got rid of evolutionary pressures and natural selection mostly by having a society, and it catapulted us to be the dominant species on the planet.

>>48070479
Gridfire and CAM dust.

>>48102011
Also, on the topic of people living in a simulated reality venturing out into the universe, read this:

http://multivax.com/last_question.html

>>48082322
>>48082430
>>48082543

True story: Carnegie Mellon University did a study on Bush Robots for NASA.

They concluded that even a moderate (macroscopic) amount of branching is still too advanced for us. Microscopic branching would require science fiction tier power, computation, and materials.

Nanoscopic branching would be pure fantasy. But if it worked... Fingertips that phase through normal matter as if it weren't there. Surgery without incisions. Exotic force field effects just from the fringes vibrating.

Bush robots are sky's the limit. I prefer to imagine them as horrifying and inscrutable post-singularity agents of change.

>>48102259
Intelligence is about 50% heritable (source: every biologist and sociologist in the last 50 years aka google "intelligence is heritable").

The idea that humans are a tabula rasa is disproved superstition.

>We got rid of evolutionary pressures and natural selection mostly by having a society

We changed evolutionary pressures. As long as entropy exists, they won't disappear.

>>48102208
>only ... thing.
Yeah, that's still genetic. The human genome, and genetics in general, are fabulously complex, it's no wonder we haven't pinned down exactly what makes you smart or not.

>Also it ... motivated.
Perhaps, or we could not even have the plebes at all, and put the resources that would have been used for them towards people who are nearly certain to make good use of it.

>Just because ... indiscriminately.
Except it does, there's a reason why we call children (and teens) easily impressionable.

>I'm sorry... this.
What didn't you understand? Also, I forgot the second thing.
1) Nothing is fated to be discovered by a singular person. There would have been a second Einstein.
2) Groups of people are more predisposed to doing certain things. Well fed, well bred, and well educated academics are more likely to do science than starving African dirt farmers.

>It's literally ... progress.
Yes, experiencing REAL things is scientific progress. UNREAL things like math and philosophy are discovered through rationality, not sensory experience.

>People would still want to venture out.
You place far too much credit on the plebes; there is an infinite universe out there, but there are potentially infinite, finite universes tailored for them within their little boxes.
>and people NEED new input
Wrong, they need sufficient different input. People enjoy reading the same book over and over again (to a point), and are more than happy to read it again a few months later. The set of sensory experience a person would be not-bored with is substantially smaller than all un-experienced experience.

>You can do science in VR.
Only from what you only know; it is useful for running simulations and formulating theory, but it is not an experiment until you do it for real.

>No problem anywhere.
The problem is that not ALL people are virtuous, or within acceptable tolerances of virtue.

>>48102325
>a literal science fiction story
In case you didn't notice, the humans in that story are literal post-human demigods, about as alien as you can possibly get. For them, there is no difference between physical reality and virtual reality, because they extend such a mastery over both that they may as well be the same thing.
You are not helping your case.

>i'll be waiting for the evidence now.
The fact that chimps aren't intelligent, and that we are!
If our common ancestor was intelligent, then chimps must have become less intelligent over time.
If our common ancestor was not intelligent, then humans must have become more intelligent over time.
We can also see that intelligence is not a binary, that is either on or off, through the varying levels of intelligence amongst our own population, as well as our evolutionary cousins, and second cousins, and so forth.
Intelligence is a function of "something", and that "something" is demonstrably partly genetic.

>>48102259
>Unless you literally want to do extremely invasive genetic augmetation, or are planning for the next hundred million years ahead, this isn't a thing.
What do you think this entire thread is talking about?
If you aren't outliving galaxies, then your species a shit.

>>48102369
>We changed evolutionary pressures.
We do not mate with the most fit partner.
We are unlikely to succumb to anything that could be countered by genetic mutation before we can produce offspring.

>50% hereditary
Is not 100%. Also that's a very simplistic way of putting it.
It also doesn't take into account that there might be other influences like social status.

>Yeah, that's still genetic.
It absolutely is not.
You have mo idea about biology if you think that genetics make you smart.

>>48102400
>people who are nearly certain to make good use of it.
In a post scarcity society that is not an issue.
Also to say that intelligent people will definitely put resources to good use is an unsubstantiated claim.

1)
So? unrelated to keeping mediocre people around.
2)
Conflating circumstances with genetic traits again.
Those african dirt farmers could become academics with the right education. This is precisely why the scholarship program i was in also took a lot of people from african dirt farming countries.
>well bred
Oh fuck off with your social darwinism
This isn't something that is dismissed because PC culture, it's dismissed because it has zero scientific merit.

>real---unreal
It's still what makes us human, because if we had no experiences about the real world we would have no terms to describe math and philosophy with.
Our curiosity about experience is what makes us human.

>little boxes.
You need to populate the boxed with information from somewhere though.

>enjoy reading the same book
wtf. what kind of people do you talk to

>useful for running simulations
With sufficient computational power the real universe can be simulated. In fact it's entirely possible that our universe is just a simulation, since we have smallest and largest constraints of tempreature, speed, time, and space.

>not all people are virtuous
not a problem
If everyone is happy and some still venture into reality, hedonistic treadmills are a good thing.

>>48102466
>the humans in that story are literal post-human demigods
And we are talking about mind uploads and indistinguishable from reality VR. Your point?

>different species different intelligence
The varying levels of intelligence in our own population do not have to vary for the same reasons intelligences between species vary.
And your argument about eugenics is like saying that we could breed humans with gills through eugenics because gills are also not a binary thing and some species exhibit more advanced ones and some less advanced ones.

The different levels of intelligence between species come from large structural changes in the cortexes of the brain, and the appearance of completely new cortexes, and are thus due to mutation. A mutation could be selected for, but it always starts with an individual, and not with selective reproduction.

>>48102501
We're talking about longevity that we could achieve right fucking now if we just put effort into it and how we are not.
And that guy is talking about fucking eugenics, a concept that was already discredited by the 50s.

>>48102611
>We do not mate with the most fit partner

Yes, we do; by definition. Those who mate are the most fit. In 20k BC, that probably meant big muscles and good hunter-gatherer skills. Today, it means confidence and wealth...or welfare and low IQ.

>It also doesn't take into account that there might be other influences like social status.

That is why it is only 50%. A lot of intelligence comes from environment, culture, and things like early childhood nutrition.

>You have mo idea about biology if you think that genetics make you smart.

No, you. Genetics is not the only factor in intelligence, but it is the single largest factor and it's empirically proven to exist.

Are you some kind of young-earth creationist?

>>48102611
>In a post scarcity society that is not an issue.
In an absolute sense, you're right. If you have infinite money, you can use it to keep all kinds of unprofitable ventures afloat. It doesn't change the fact that they're all effectively nothing more than charities that exist by your grace and will.
Likewise, the plebes in this society are just like their superiors in emotion and fundamental "humanness", except they're useless. They exist solely because of their better's grace and will. They are pets.

>So? unrelated to keeping mediocre people around.
It's neither an argument FOR keeping the mediocre around. Even if someone potential plebe was fated to be Einstein, there would always have been another Einstein.

>2)
Not to sound /pol/ here, but how many of those African dirt farmers on the scholarship actually made something of themselves?
It may just be because I'm American, but from what I've seen, shoveling scholarships and welfare in the general direction of anyone who's darker than milk chocolate hasn't improved their situation all that much.

>because if ... philosophy with.
Only at the absolute, most basic level. The only part of math that is "real" is positive integers; the second you even dive into negatives or fractions is the second you leave reality and experience behind.

>With sufficient ... simulated.
Simulated according to what we know*
The biggest, defining thing about knowledge is that we don't know everything, can't know everything, and that what we know is possibly wrong.
If you simulate a universe and find there to be only white swans within it, and declare that there are only white swans, you preclude the existence of a black swan in reality.

>In fact it's entirely possible that our universe is just a simulation
Fuck off.

>hedonistic treadmills are a good thing.
Hedonism is most certainly NOT a good thing, and happiness is NOT the ultimate goal towards which humans should strive.
Suffering also begets goodness.

>>48102689
>eugenics was discredited by the 1950s

Bit of biology history for you: that was because of post-WW2 propaganda based on the following fallacy: if genetic diversity was true, therefore people would justify bad things with it, therefore it's false.

It sounded good until DNA was discovered and lingered on until the present day. But once DNA analysis became cheap enough for the average lab in the late 00s, it was disproved and the fact that humans are diverse - really biologically different, not just cosmetically different - crashed down with a vengeance.

For example, see this paper that essentially proves Idiocracy was correct about eugenics: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X14001276

>>48102689
>Your point?
The point is that those things in the story are human only in name.

>The varying levels of intelligence in our own population do not have to vary for the same reasons intelligences between species vary.
What is the difference between species but genetics? Chimps and humans and fish and mold are all made of the same stuff, just with different genes.

>And your argument about eugenics is like saying that we could breed humans with gills through eugenics because gills are also not a binary thing and some species exhibit more advanced ones and some less advanced ones.
Sure we could, there's nothing stopping us besides some rather invasive genetic engineering. We made fish glow in the dark and pass on that gene to their offspring, so why can't we engineer human gills?

>The different levels of intelligence between species come from large structural changes in the cortexes of the brain, and the appearance of completely new cortexes
Yes, which is all determined by genetics.

>We're talking about longevity that we could achieve right fucking now if we just put effort into it and how we are not.
>And that guy is talking about fucking eugenics, a concept that was already discredited by the 50s.
I am that guy, and immortality coupled with the current nature of humanity would be nothing more than an unmitigated disaster.

>>48102714
Uhm. People who are not confident are not outbred by confident people.
You're also again assuming that psychological traits are directly genetic which is absolutely unscientific.

>that's why it's only 50%
no that's why it registers at all.
the 50% come from those things. the other 50% are seemingly completely random

>Genetics is not the only factor in intelligence, but it is the single largest factor and it's empirically proven to exist.
I will need some actual evidence for this.
As in actual scientific articles.


Also something just occurred to me.
Barbaric concepts like human eugenics will be completely meaningless anyway if we manage to achieve longevity, because that would make alteration of the human genome possible and thus evolutionary influences finally completely irrelevant.

>that exist by your grace and will.
By that logic we all just exist by the grace and will of the super rich nowadays, who chose that giving people certain freedoms was the easiest way to ensure that the population remains docile and they get to keep their wealth without a revolution.

>1)
yes but who knows when. progress should happen as fast as possible even if you have all eternity
>2)
>not to sound like /pol/
but you do. You sound like a somewhat undereducated neoconservative, with your ramblings about how eugenics is a viable option to increase human intelligence.

>only part
But without that part maths would not be possible at all.
Math comes from reality, and is advanced in part to serve reality. In other words even the most abstract thing we have is intrinsically connected to our curiosity about reality
Also insight into the fundamental logic of the universe could also count as "experience"

>simulated universes
Not the point. My point was VR is AWESOME for science. observation is a small part.

>happiness is NOT
yes it is

>goodness
Is an entirely made up, personal concept with 0 ZERO relevance in any way shape or form to the universe at large.

>>48102927
>because that would make alteration of the human genome possible and thus evolutionary influences finally completely irrelevant.
Direct modification of the human genome is literally the purest form of eugenics, you absolute paint-huffer.

>By that ... revolution.
While that is true, the elite still do rely on the plebes. In a post-scarcity economy, that is no longer the case.

>yes but who knows when. progress should happen as fast as possible even if you have all eternity
If that is the case, then we should funnel all resources towards the group of people with the highest chance of progress occuring.
If group A has a 10% chance of some arbitrary unit of Science!, and group B has a 90% chance of some arbitrary unit of Science!, then it's a no brainer to give all resources to group B and let group A die out.

>but you do
Guilty as charged.
>You sound like a somewhat undereducated neoconservative
I resent that, I truly do, as I am a proud technocratic reactionary. Check your progressive privilege, enlightenment scum.

>But without that part maths would not be possible at all.
It's been proven that you can construct mathematics from a purely rational and philosophical basis, without having to observe natural numbers in real life.
It'd be very hard to do so, but it's possible.

>Not the point. My point was VR is AWESOME for science. observation is a small part.
No, VR is awesome for predicting stuff we already know, and stuff that we might possibly know. You can't simulate what you don't understand.

>observation is a small part
Observation is literally the core of science you absolute retard!

>yes it is
No it is not.

>Is an ... at large.
Oh, are we talking about universal, objective values now?
Guess what, the universe doesn't give a shit; we, as humans, give a shit.
WE give meaning to everything around us, not the universe, not the stars, not anything else.
WE decide what is good, what is evil, what is moral and virtuous and degenerate and vile.

>>48102927
>the 50% come from those things. the other 50% are seemingly completely random

No, as I've already explained, this is after studies control for everything besides genetics. That is how science works, in order to measure a single factor, controls measure such as twin/longitudinal studies and blinding are used to compensate for noise.

>I will need some actual evidence for this.

For the mainstream scientific consensus? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=intelligence+heredity

If you want a Nobel Prize, go ahead and publish your disproof. The world is waiting.

I know that won't happen, OFC, but I'd settle for seeing a cite or two behind your superstition.

>>48102787
>the fact that humans are diverse - really biologically different, not just cosmetically different - crashed down with a vengeance.
That's just outright false. I'm not saying 'race' as a term is not a correct thing but here, hear one of the guys behind the human genome project:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/11148583

Also you still didn't bring any papers correlating intelligence to genes.

>>48102801
>human only in name.
No. They're advanced. And someone with mind uploading would also only be human in name.
>difference between species but genetics?
The fact that you can not make a different species (which is required for genetic intelligence difference) just by selective breeding withing a few generations.

>Sure we could, there's nothing stopping us besides some rather invasive genetic engineering
But that makes your whole fucking eugenics argument an utter failure you moron.
If we have advanced enough genetics available to produce hereditary differences in intelligence (aka different species) then you can also simply alter the genetics of mediocre people to not make them dumb.

>I am that guy, and immortality coupled with the current nature of humanity would be nothing more than an unmitigated disaster.
You have still not refuted anything i said against this and not brought any points for this.

We would immediately stop having children, because we are not advanced enough to create human children from scratch while our rains are uploaded in a computer, and the proportion of mediocre people wouldn't change, but they would require less effort to maintain (just maintain a computer and VR) than right now,.

>>48103044
>you absolute paint-huffer.
I lack the words.
Merriam Webster
Full Definition of eugenics
: a science that deals with the improvement (as by control of human mating) of hereditary qualities of a race or breed

I think from this point on our whole discussion is meaningless. I am all for genetic augmentation.

>>48103044

>just being a technocrat talking about how great I am on 4chan

die in a fire

>>48103220
>No. They're advanced. And someone with mind uploading would also only be human in name.
Are we fundamentally different from the Babylonians or Sumerians?

>The fact that you can not make a different species (which is required for genetic intelligence difference) just by selective breeding withing a few generations.
How do you define a "few" generations? A few dozen is enough to see noticeable changes; a few hundred is enough to start differentiating sub-species.

>But that makes your whole fucking eugenics argument an utter failure you moron.
Except that literally is Eugenics; the manipulation of genes to create better people. Whether this is through selective breeding or genetic engineering, it's all genetics.

>different species
Anon, you don't understand. There is no fundamental difference that separates chimps from Humans; we were all the same species at one point.

>We would immediately stop having children
Why? I thought you said "as much progress as possible, even if you have infinity".
If that's a valid goal, then we should be devoting an optimized amount of resources towards colonizing and constructing habitats to support a larger population.

> I am all for genetic augmentation.
What's the fundamental difference between genetic engineering, and husbandry?
If you can tinker around with genes to make people smarter, than you can BREED people to make them smarter.

this had the potential to be a good thread until it just turned into another one of /pol/'s "kill all the scary brown people because i said so" meme shitpost sessions

>>48103251
>die in a fire
It's a joke you fucking faggot, and I only talked about it for one line.
In case you hadn't noticed, you're on 4chan too. We're all equally worthless here.

>>48103311
I know, I shouldn't have bumped it.

File: megafauna_europa_by_juliedillon-d8ki80r.jpg (415KB, 1000x1333px)

415KB, 1000x1333px

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>>48098363
Well this thread got shitty fast.

>>48103311
That's a nice meme there lad; it sure must be nice being able to reduce everything to a strawman.

>X is bad because the people who like it hurt my fee fees :^(