Pathfinder General /pfg/ Which race has the best waifus/hus

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Ok. I went back to something I worked on a while ago and pared it down to a more concrete theme than the original was.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/181xuVW9TAYjZpgWS0q6U4A9SqJZG8CcXGG2lIMwn3Fw/edit?usp=sharing

Still very much in alpha though. I'm a bit unsure on the damage of Minefield and if the wording of various abilities are any good.

Still, here we go. A Harbringer Archetype based on firearms and alchemical items (Though not limited to them)

>>47971409
If blinkings look anything like the OP from two threads ago, that's pretty damn cute. Shame that the origin is so creepy.

>>47971409
Half elves are always the best waifus.

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>>47971442
This one?

>>47971442
Kinda creepy, but at least both sides are consenting sapients

Any way besides phylactery of positive energy channeling and the presence of positive energy elementals that you can improve the potency of channel energy?

>>47971442
What are blinklings?

>>47971481
Yeah that one

>>47971541
Race from Bloodforge, Halfling-Blink Dog hybrids.

>>47971569
Oh that's adorable.

Can they blink just their fluffy tails/ears?

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>>47971569
>Halfling-Blink Dog hybrids
Sounds hot.

>>47971502

>Kinda creepy

One of the most popular NPCs in the general is a lovesick winter wolf.

>>47971409
Eiremians, they stay calm and helpful even when you freak out.

>>47971595
awoooo

>>47971569
Well that's a new one. The lewd is strong in their origins.

>>47971526
Ghostvision Gloves let you focus a positive channel to harm on a single undead, boosting your damage dice to d12s.

Ring of Protected Life increases the radius by 5 feet, adds 1 to the number of creatures you can exclude from the effect (which is none by default, but Selective Channel exists), and lets you channel as a swift 1/day

Malleable Symbol lets you channel as a 10-foot burst anywhere within 30 feet, as a 60-foot line, or as a 30-foot cone.

Ritual of Possession adds 2d6 to your channel, +4 to the DC, allows it to damage outsiders, and I believe adds +3 uses per day.

>>47971596

Eiremians make the best spouses, true.

But Ethumions make the best lovers.

>>47971595

To be fair, she's got a hot Russian woman body.

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>>47971595
Yeah, but she's of human intelligence, plus in a human form usually at the time, so even people who don't like banging other species prudes can't really object.

It's not like you're fucking a dog. See the guide.

>>47971608
You might like Kestrels as well.

>>47971628
Blink Dogs have human intelligence as well. Just no alternate form

>>47971644
* ** ***

* - If they're of sexual maturity

** - If they're consenting

*** - If that particular member is of human-like intelligence (or greater)

>>47971632
Sounds like bird folk?

>>47971628

She spends like 3/4th of the campaign in wolf form, once you're outside of the Howlings.

Unless you've got a polymorph spell ready for when you want to consummate, there's going to be some freaky shit going down.

>>47971644
>>47971666

Oh the check mark didn't translate over.

Point remains. Though I can completely understand why people would have a stigma against that, but it's just personal concerns and not found on actual ethical objections. I still wouldn't, but I can't actual put together an argument against it.

>>47971666
Doesn't she prefer getting freaky in wolf form anyway? And gets mad if you can't do the same?

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>>47971711
Yeah, but she'll get over it. She's an adaptable woman, she's NE.

>>47971711
>>47971716

Nothing says her preference in form while doing it, however she is described as a very mature, experienced woman and takes the fact her lover is a humanoid with frustration at first, but eventually accepts it.

Neutral Evil just represents her giving no fucks about other people if it means making the husband happy, sorts like the other famous NE around here, Tamamo.

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>>47971744
TAMAMO IS SHIT TIER WAIFU REEEEE

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>>47971569
Don't know what is up with that combination but it existed in 3rd party stuff back in 3.5 as well.

>>47971750
Not like yours is any better.

>>47971773
Gareth wrote it.

He must have a thing for giving dogs a bone :3

>>47971526
>>47971611
The Fey Foundling feat will heal you (and only you) by an additional 2 every time you are healed. Similarly, the magical weapon Inheritor's Light used to add +1 healing per die of your channel, though I believe that has been errata'd. Ask your GM.

You would be wise to look at Variant Channels, as many of them have stronger effects than pure healing or damage.

The Envoy of Balance prestige class will net you the ability to remove the ECL penalty from Versatile Channel, to channel positive and negative simultaneously, or several other channel-based options, while the Holy Vindicator prestige class will get you things like the ability to channel as a 30-foot cone or a 120-foot line, and to add +<number of channel dice> to their AC.

The Death Domain cleric has the option to heal himself while channeling negative energy to harm living beings, making it an excellent choice for getting in close and spamming channels.

My personal preference for a channel-focused build is Death Cleric 8 / Envoy of Balance 2 / Holy Vindicator 10, using the Ale/Wine variant channel (half healing/harming, but any creatures healed ignore nauseated, sickened, and ability damage/drain from poison until my next turn, and any creatures harmed must save or be nauseated. If you don't like the idea of a booze-related channel, the Rulership variant dazes harmed enemies, which is even better than nauseating them, though it's heal effect is absolutely trivial, while the Pain and Disease variants sicken enemies, a weaker effect, but for longer.)

>>47971409
Hey again /pfg/. Last thread I asked some advice about converting extraplanar pc races from 3.x and didn't receive many answers. See, the rules treat the outsider type inconsistently, using it for both anything extraplanar (98% of extraplanar monsters are outsiders, which results in the same silly paragraph about eating for pleasure being repeated a dozen times), nature spirits generically (kami, manitou, wakandagi, etc), or totally-not-undead-really (prana ghost, aoandon, etc). So I can't determine whether an extraplanar mortal race (eats, breathes, sleeps) should be a nonsensical "outsider (extraplanar, native)" or a sensible "humanoid (extraplanar, [race])". It's really silly and the rules should just drop or rename the outsider type since we already have an extraplanar subtype.

>>47971792
I think it was a re-write. Owen Stevens wrote the one for 3.5, there was something with IP there

>>47971862
Do it the 4e way.

>>47971661
Aye, descendants of halflings & harpies. I was looking to make their origin cute.

>>47971792
My options were:

> Write Blinklings
> Drop the project after all the time I spent arguing that it needed to be fixed

I wrote Blinklings, as you can see.

>>47971862
Give that planekin, who are only half-outsider and are in fact born on this plane, are outsider (native), it's a fair bet that whatever you're making is an outsider. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to be a (extraplanar, native), because (extraplanar) means "is not currently on its home plane" and (native) means "is currently on its home plane".

>>47971862
Outsider: soul and body are the same unit
Humanoid (Extraplanar): mortals that happen to be from a different realm, but their body and soul are still two different things

Although I do agree, and I'm considering a bit of homebrew to condense the types down, with Outsider getting eliminated.

>>47971744

That is why the posts about "Greta the nerd" always made me wonder if they've actually read her entry.

Greta's been around, you're nowhere close to her first and she's only interested in a long-term mate because she's finally all busted up and ready to settle down. Her single paragraph entry makes more than one mention about how experienced she is.

>>47971654
and if you ignore that you're fucking a dog

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If Ssalarn still happens to check these threads, I would like to belabor a point that has no doubt been endlessly repeated in the past: a low-level vizier of the Path of the Ruler has an unbearably imbecilic party-debuffing mechanic.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/akashic-magic/veilweaving-classes/the-vizier/paths-of-mystic-attunement/path-of-the-ruler

>Aura of Subjugation (Su)
>At 1st level the ruler's aura of subjugation has a range of 30 feet and all creatures other than the ruler within its area of effect take a -1 penalty to their Will saving throws and a -2 penalty to all Sense Motive checks.

As far as I am aware, this cannot be deactivated, so from 1st to 4th level, a vizier is actively debuffing their allies' Will saving throws and Sense Motive, and there is nothing anyone can do about it other than stay away from the vizier. (Low-level viziers must find it difficult to keep their friends close in the long term.)

>>47972001

Nah, with a low will save and sense movie they must find it really easy!

>>47971884
Origins are too iffy. I was considering something more like Mazes & Minotaurs: animate, beast, folk, monster and spirit, which pretty much covers everything that could possibly exist.

>>47971901
Outsiders don't eat or sleep. The races I'm converting do, but are native to non-material planes. The rules don't seem to account for this.

>>47971904
The problem, IMO, is more that "outsider" is the wrong name to use. It should be something like "spirit". This would clarify the meaning and let us toss out the silly native subtype used for planetouched and nature spirits.

>>47972001
Oh yeah I've mentioned that one many times.
That and the pathetic, highly expensive growth of hand cannons.

Wish I'd been there the previous thread.

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>>47972001

Many of the veils suffer from "useless without a chakra bind" syndrome, which is worrying, because it means one should never, ever bother with them otherwise. For example:

Horselord’s Greaves
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic, Vizier
Slot: Feet, Belt
Saving Throw: None

Veridian akasha sheathes your body from the waist down as you form a Veil of nature-infused energy designed for the specific purpose of making its wearer a master cavalryman.

The wearer of this veil gains a +2 insight bonus to Handle Animal and Ride checks

Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability increase the bonus to Handle Animal and Ride checks by +2.

Chakra Bind (Feet): [D2, V4] Binding this veil to your Feet chakra allows you to cast the mount spell as an at-will spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your level. You can only have one instance of this ability active at any one time, and casting mount using this ability while a previous casting is still active instantly dismisses the first summoned mount. Any creature you are mounted on gains a +1 insight bonus to AC and saving throws, and 5 temporary hit points per point of essence invested in this veil.

And another:

Immovable Boots
Descriptors: [Earth]
Class: Daevic, Guru
Slot: Boots
Saving Throw: none

Your feet and shins are girded in a granite-like aura that grants you the stability of the earth itself .

While wearing these boots you receive a +2 insight bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense when resisting a bull rush or trip attempt while standing on the ground.

Essence: The bonus to your CMD increases by +2 per point of essence invested in this veil.

Chakra Bind (Feet): [D1, G5] The reinforced connection between the veilweaver and their veil creates an elemental connection to the ground beneath their feet. The wearer can burrow through soft earth and sand at a speed of 10 feet + 5 feet per point of essence invested in this veil.

Good binds, chaff otherwise.

>>47972044
The lava-walker boots are extremely limited as well, given the essence cost per resistance.

Snakehandler's gauntlets...

Riven Darts

Metabolist's Scarf...

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OKAY UH ANON THIS EMAIL IS ACTUALLY FOR BOOK DROPS ONLY SO MAYBE DON'T DO THIS SHIT?

DON'T GET QANON WRONG SHE'S NOT MAD OR EVEN DISAPPOINTED, JUST... REALLY CONFUSED... LIKE JUST... WHY...

QANON TRIED TO DEAL WITH THIS PRIVATELY BUT MAIL BOUNCED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, SO PUBLIC SHAMING IT IS, APPARENTLY?

ANYWAY MORNING ANONS AND ANONETTES, TODAY'S QUESTION OF THE ARBITRARY-TIME-PERIOD IS: WHICH NON-METALLIC, NON-CHROMATIC DRAGON IS BEST, AND WHY?

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>>47972040

The frustrating thing to realize about Hand Cannons is that for all its mediocrity, it is *still* one of the better veils out there, which is saying something. I can count on two hands the number of veils I would consistently be confident of striding into an adventure with, and then safely discard every other veil with great prejudice.

Path of War: Expanded's maneuvers at least present difficult choices, because they are *relatively* more balanced against one another.

It is painful to go through the veil list and see sorry excuses for abilities like this:

Lover’s Tread
Descriptors: none
Class: Daevic
Slot: Feet
Saving Throw: Will

The first being to shape this unusual veil truly believed that one could fall head over heels in love. The wearer of this veil gains a +2 insight bonus to CMB to perform a trip combat maneuver with an unarmed strike. As part of this attempt, the wearer may make a Bluff check (DC = target’s CMD). If this Bluff check is successful, this trip attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the target.

Essence: For each point of essence invested in this ability increase the bonus to CMB when performing the trip combat maneuver by +1 and gain a +1 insight bonus to Bluff attempts against the target of your trip.

Chakra Bind (Feet): [D1] By binding this veil to your Feet chakra, you are able to release an intoxicating burst of akashic energy into your opponent. This energy serves to simulate a charm person spell targeting the tripped opponent. If you succeeded at the Bluff attempt granted by this veil, the opponent’s Will save has a -2 penalty to resist this effect. If you have at least 3 points of essence invested in this veil, the effect instead simulates charm monster.

This goes through far too much effort just to try to trip an enemy (if you fail the Bluff check, eat an attack of opportunity!), and the charm effect does not even circumvent the usual mid-combat +5 bonus to the saving throw.

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>>47972103
>Reflector Wings
>Beam Breath

Mercury

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>>47972103
This motherfucker right here.

>>47972120
Now I'm no chemist, but isn't mercury a metal?

>>47972116

How the balls DO you make a Vizier work?

I'm looking over this and rather confused. Do I just dump stuff in a wand and play a 3.5 artificer?

>>47971895
>>47971792
did Gareth do the 'original' idea, or just handled the reimagining?

cause it doesn't look like any of the team from Bloodlines and Bastards was involved with Bloodforge.

And if Gareth was just involved with the reimaginings, got to give props to making a good number of them sound more feasible things to exist then in the original book. But definitely needed a different artist for most of those compared to the original.

>>47972141
They're not true metallic dragons however.
Only one breath (blinding reflector wings is cool but not a breath alternate) and some other thing they lacked I forget what, meant that they did not qualify.

Steel dragons are in the same boat!

BTW have we all been just naturally assuming anon also didn't want the gem/psi dragons? Because Cypher and Lorican dragons are badass.

>>47972174
TL;DR they bought the art, Gareth was given the art and the original text, and told "make this into something we can sell".

Can anyone help me find the definitions for these special qualities on Manu Manasaputras?

formless

positive energy affinity

subjective appearance

I know negative energy affinity means they take damage from positive energy and are healed by negative, but the opposite is already the status quo.

>>47972174
Most of the race combinations were not my choice. We initially released Bloodforge under another name; it was pulled from the shelves nearly immediately, for legal reasons. While it was off the shelves, I worked with the author that had adapted it initially to un-fuck the various races.

Blinklings were not alone in being a race I wanted to scrap. Since that couldn't happen, I did the best I could to make 'em seem plausible and interesting.

>>47972207
Okay, found 'positive energy affinity' hidden under jyoti. It means they can exist in the positive energy plane safely, and all healing spells are maximized on them. Still no idea on the other two.

>>47972207
Did you try d20pfsrd.org search function?

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>>47972154

Ssalarn swears up and down that viziers are capable of filling any role, which, in practice, means that you are "supposed" to build a vizier towards a certain set of veils and then have those veils shaped at all times.

Veilweavers can shape different veils at the start of each day, and a vizier can do so on demand a few times per day, but why adjust more than one or two veils each time when your character has been set up to emphasize your "favorite" veils?

A vizier is less akin to a wizard and more akin to a weak sorcerer with some minor flexibility.

Paizo's occultist does the job of a tier 3, item-themed, incarnum-style "wizard" far better than the vizier ever will, and the occultist is even more customizable with Psionics Augmented: Occult material. I cannot see a good reason to actually play a vizier.

>>47972216
You did good with what you were given. Hopefully you don't hold much resentment to the project as a whole.

>>47972219
Yes.

>>47972216
I heard tell that the blinkings were your one "get out of jail free" card on the project. Confirm or deny?

>>47972034
>animate, beast, folk, monster and spirit
Need to test this. Could anybody give me examples of monsters that could not easily slot into one of these five? (assume subtypes are in play)

>>47972232
Not /exactly/, no. I played my one and only 'mystery' card on them; their origins are unknown, and they sustain their low-membership race mostly with each other. All the discussion that crops up whenever Blinklings are posted, with folks being creeped out and/or posting the Harkness test? That's why.

>>47972234
Where do elementals and constructs fall?

>>47972221

Right. I was trying to get 'Blasting + Mind Control' out of one and started tearing my hear out trying to make it not suck.

>>47972207
Found it on the paizo site.

"Formless (Su): Most manasaputras are not defined by physical form, and choose to adopt a corporeal form at their leisure. Manasaputras with this ability can transition between corporeal and incorporeal forms as a move action. When a manasaputra becomes corporeal, it retains its Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to AC. A manasaputra's natural attacks, unarmed strikes, and manufactured weapon attacks are only available while the manasaputra is in its corporeal form, with the exception of ghost touch weapons.

Positive Energy Affinity (Ex): Manasaputras can exist comfortably on the Positive Energy Plane, and do not benefit (or suffer) from that plane's overwhelming infusions of life-giving energies. Whenever a manasaputra is subjected to a magical healing effect, that effect functions at its full potential, as if enhanced by the Maximize Spell feat.


Subjective Appearance (Su): When in corporeal form, a manasaputra projects a psychic illusion over its body, masking its true appearance. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher that views a manasaputra sees it as an idealized human form, though often with unusual features. Creatures physically interacting with a manasaputra can attempt a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the manasaputra's HD + the manasaputra's Charisma modifier) to disbelieve the illusion. If successful, the character sees the corporeal veil as a translucent outline, with the fiery body of the manasaputra contained within. This is a mind-affecting illusion (glamer) effect."

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Also on the topic of veils, it is interesting to note that daoine sidhe ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pBP7kQ14gCc-xTsjIdK7EJov38IpDZFG73anj6KyifI/edit ) have this:
>Veiled One (Su): There are daoine sidhe that study the art of veilweaving rather than martial combat. They gain Shape Veil as a bonus feat (they do not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat) and one point of essence. This replaces fey guile and immortal swordsmanship.

This is an excellent deal, because it means they can start off with a 15% miss chance Robe of the Forgotten Deity (better than a blinkling's), 3d6 damage greatswords with an Armory of the Conqueror, +4 damage unarmed/natural attacks with Forcestrike Knuckles, and so on. It is quite the luxury to have one of the actually worthwhile veils with zero investment.

A daoine sidhe can even take Shape Veil and Extra Essence on top of this.

I am growing more and more convinced that the best of the veils are actually more useful for non-veilweavers than for actual veilweavers, which is a shame.

Buraqs (the akashic animal companion archetype) also manage to make very good veil-users despite not being dedicated veilweavers.

>>47972257

Veilweaving "blasters" are a mess because the even the "better" offensive veils (e.g. Hand Cannons, Frostbite Halo) are, on their own, nearly useless or literally useless (good luck using a Frostbite Halo with no cold damage abilities by default). They have their true potential unlocked only if they are pieced together with other highly specific veils (e.g. Frostbite Halo and Polar Snowshoes), and even then, that just brings them up to a vaguely acceptable level.

>Blasting + Mind Control

You want a psion.

>>47972319

Yeah, I'm running into 'Ooh, this boosts fire damage...why is there no low level fire damage I can access?'

>>47972243
Elementals are nature spirits, constructs are animated.

>>47972373
What about rakshasa or manasaputras?

I'm guessing creatures like tieflings, aasimar and fetchlings are folk.

>>47972393
>manasaputras
Spirits.

>>47972373
>elementals are spirits
Alright I'm gonna need the definition of "spirit" from you anon

>>47972413
>>47972406
>>47972373
It definitely seems like 'spirit' encompasses the traditional view of outsider before everything else got swept under that definition.

Manasaputras are anything from idealized versions of normal races to sentient bottles of positive energy.

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Another hidden "screw you" of the akasha rules is that veils are identifiable.

>Veils are nearly invisible until invested with at least one point of essence; a veilweaver gains a +5 circumstance bonus to Disguise checks to hide the fact that he has an uninvested veil shaped, though detect magic, true seeing, or similar effects automatically reveal their presence. As soon as a point of essence is invested in a veil they flare into tangibility and are easily noticeable.

>Identifying veils and effects:
>Information about a veil’s properties or effects can be determined using the Knowledge (arcana) skill according to the following table:
>Identify a magical manifestation as akasha or: veilweaving DC 10
>Identify a specific veil’s basic properties: DC 15
>Identify a specific veil’s bind effects: DC 20
>In areas where akashic magic is uncommon or otherwise unheard of, increase the DC of these checks by 5.

Even without investing any essence, you stand a chance of having your veils discovered. If you dare to insert even a single point of essence into a veil, it becomes obvious for everyone to see. Either way, veils can be identified by anyone decent with Knowledge (arcana).

Do not walk around with a [compulsion, mind-affecting] Vestments of the Maharaja with 1+ essence unless you wish to be looked upon askance by anyone with semi-decent magical theory. You *might* be able to get away with a Cuirass of Confidence though, since that veil has so terrible an essence investment that you may as well leave it at zero essence, although that veil's mind control has its own major issues.

>>47972413
The "silly native subtype" such as nature spirits where everything both animate and inanimate has a kind of spirit behind it. Elementals are the spirits of those inanimate things given a living form.

>>47972431
The rules feel like
Folk: Sapient, civilized, living creatures
Beasts: Real animals
Monsters: Nonreal animals and sapient uncivilized living creatures
Animated: Living inanimate matter
Spirit: everything else??

I don't.. like this system. It feels cramped.

>>47972465
Oh, I assumed this was a breakdown of types of outsider, because outsider was becoming too much of a cramped title as it was.

That just makes it worse by giving the problem a different name and sweeping more things under it.

>>47972200
well kinda goes without saying they 'bought' the art. I could be wrong but most of these companies, even big ones like WotC and Paizo really don't have resident artists but just commision the work from outside the company. There are of course preferred artists they go to more often then not, but I am pretty sure they aren't actually part of the company in general.

>>47972216
did a good job with what ya had to work with. I remember reading the original ages ago and just going 'who the heck would come up with this? and who thought this could ever become a liekable, profitable concept?'

Obviously this was before /tg/ developed a thing for shota dog boys.Now I have to wonder if they qualify for for the Halfling childlike feat.

>>47972485
I'm pretty sure this is a subtle, clumsy attempt to try to crowbar Fantasycraft into Pathfinder.

>>47972501
Reading comprehension, anon. I know how art in the RPG industry works. I'm saying they got the art BEFORE Gareth was handed the project, and he had to work with what they gave him.

>>47972442
don't forget the [EVIL] ones either.

It is extremely easy for almost anyone save a random commoner - who will at least know to tell someone - to know exactly what the fuck you're doing and/or capable of.

>>47972515
Oh guess we were both confused by each other then, I was just mentioning in general really that they needed a different artist, regardless of whoever was handling the writing of the project. Personally dislike being on proojects where someone essentially has me the artist do all the work and then they write everything around what the art depicts. Even more so when they want me doing interface stuff and then doing the coding based on what buttons I drew for them. Such a pain.

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>>47972501

The Childlike feat does not function very well by RAW, because it does not remove the massive -10 penalty a halfling would face for attempting to Disguise themselves as a Medium-sized human child.

That said, blinklings have the halfling subtype and can select it.

>>47972529

It is baffling how some veils are arbitrarily [evil]- or [good]-aligned for no reason at all. The Bloody Shroud, an awfully weak veil, is [evil] simply for... causing enemies to bleed? The Diadem of Pure Reflection, also a terrible veil, is mysteriously [good].

These are not just for flavor either; a veilweaver cannot shape a veil with an alignment tag that opposes their alignment unless they take a feat to do exactly that.

>>47972560
So, here's my understanding of how the project went. DSP feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Green Ronin published Bastards and Bloodlines for 3.5

DSP straight ported it to Pathfinder, with no new mechanics or items, but buying new art along the way. This port was pulled because, iirc, they didn't strip all of Green Ronin's Product Identity?

The project is renamed Bloodforge and given to Gareth, who is tasked with turning a shitty straight port into a decent product, with proper Pathfinder mechanics and bonus content. But, since the art was already paid for, they weren't going to change or buy any new art, so all races still had to match their art.

The book releases, the art sucks out loud, and the artist (probably embarrassed at his art from, what, a year or two before at that point?) offers to redo it for free. We're in the middle of that now, I believe?

>>47972608
>The Childlike feat does not function very well by RAW, because it does not remove the massive -10 penalty a halfling would face for attempting to Disguise themselves as a Medium-sized human child.

Human children are small, not medium.

>>47972608
>it does not remove the massive -10 penalty

Yeah uh that's what Pass for Human is for. For halflings, it has Childlike as a prereq.

>>47972608
I think the aligned veils are a hold over from an earlier version of the project that never got properly phased out, but really need to be.
The only veils that can be argued to even be appropriate for the tags are Deathchannel Ring and Dark Lord's Ring of Master (or whatever it was called) and even then, that is only if you are a dumbass who still adheres to the "muh evil necromancy" idea.

>>47972640
so it was originally intended to be nothing more then just a straight up port with little care to the quality? Basically just a 'we feel like providing the backwards compatibility Paizo promised but did not really deliver on, but don't really like it ourselves so spending minimal resources on it'? That's kinda cool

> redo it for free
Dang man, that's pretty sweet, don't hear of that often.

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>>47972646

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/young-characters

There is no indication that a human child is of Small size, save for perhaps those of 7 or less years.

>>47972653

Two feats to pass oneself off as a human child is a steep investment.

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>>47972646
Disagree

>>47972653
see >>47972646, no penalty at all. Pass for Human just grants the extra +10 and take 10. 12 total.

Obviously one might argue they can't really take pass for human if they got ears and tails, but on the other hand one could argue they could be passing themselves off as Agathion blooded Aasimar kids.

>>47972770
But human kids are Medium?

>>47972765

I want to pinch the cheek of a polymorphed bronze dragon until she cries!

>>47972640
The art that's going to be redone has already been redone. We hit a snag trying to get the print version going in the form of all of our print files for it being more corrupt than a Roman senator. We're working on that but it's got priority behind some of our other stuff.

>>47972693
Ehhh. The bossman chose B&B because it sold well. The trouble is, it sold well nearly a decade ago, to a different market, before the rise of 3.5 and definitely before anyone knew what they were doing.

That we made something good of it doesn't mean it wasn't a bad idea. I'm proud of the work Matt & I did but...hot damn, it was rough work.

>>47972765
>Two feats to pass oneself off as a human child is a steep investment.
You are aware this is /PFG/ currently discussing shota dogboys yes?

>>47972779
Paizo disagrees.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-0/orphan-child

>>47972780
Bronze dragon tomboy genki girls are my fetish.

>>47972797
Those are fan-converted from 3.5 dumb-dumb.

>>47972785
Have you guys considered ever releasing some "unearthed arcana: DSP edition" for pathfinder?

>>47972857
'Unearthed Arcana' has meant different things over the course of thirty or forty years. You mind expanding on what it is you actually mean?

>>47972779
>how do I make a child?
>apply the young template
>which reduces the size by one
>what size is an adult human?
>medium
>then what size is a young human?
>small
>so what size is a human child?
>MEDIUM DURH

>>47972868
A large collection of alternate rules or house-rules that you guys think would be fun to play with?

Think armor-as-dr but hopefully not mega-shit.

>>47972876
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/young-characters

>>47972804
How often is your fetish fulfilled?

>>47972779
>>47972765
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/young-characters

ah, there in lies some issues. The Childlike feat was written in Advanced Players guide, way before Ultimate Campaign. What existed back then was the template for young creatures which reduces size by 1.

Definitely some major conflicts going on, I never realized the ultimate campaign rules never bothered to address size related issues. Heck I find those sets of rules to have a lot of unneccessary bloat regarding classes imo. Personally I can not see an 8-14 year old being always and irrevocably medium in size or even small. The size variation is too much in both sides so personally I would solve the issue by saying depends on the kid.

>>47972804

I would unironically read the first three chapters of a manga or comic featuring a bronze tomboy genki brown-girl, a proper silver-haired Justice oriented ojou-sama, and their dopey scheming golden-haired leader.

>>47972921
You know that Small is 2-4 feet tall right?

>>47972906
I can safely assure you that that there has been absolutely no discussion on that. I doubt it'd fly either, especially with how folks have reacted to us posting personal houserules before.

>>47972910
You do know how small halflings are, right? They're not disguising as the prepubescents these rules cover. Halflings have the height of like 3 or 4 year olds.

>>47972868
The 3.5 Unearthed Arcana book, the thing with the original Gestalt rules, Item Familiars, a bunch of alternate class features, and other cool shit?

This: http://www.tjlee.com/dnd/uarcana.pdf

>>47972465
Beast should cover real and nonreal animals. Spirits covers stuff like demons and angels. Animate also covers slimes, jellies and plants. "Monster" is for everything else.

"Cramped" describes the 3.x types that can't decide what they're even supposed to mean. A smaller number of better differentiated types makes it easier to sort. If you can't determine where, say, elementals belong then you probably need to define what elementals actually are. What would be the difference between an elemental animate, elemental beast, elemental folk, elemental monster, and an elemental spirit?

>>47972985
..>tfw the min and max height and weight of halflings of both genders line up almost perfectly with the average height and weight of 2 and 4 year old children of those genders

I always thought they were bigger!

>>47972966
But people liked your houserules and they were good? Shit, I'd pay money for just a big book of "Hey man these aren't necessarily hard rules, but here's some good shit that you might wanna use"

Or just do a big 'playtest' document for it.

>>47973002
And how do you make effects that affect specific classes of monster? How do you make a spell that affects all angels and demons, but not agathions and kami? How do you make a class feature that doubles your damage against plant monsters, and halves it against metal constructs? If you list them all by name, you've made a big frustrating pile of names AND it's impossible to future-proof. If you offload it into subtypes, you haven't solved the problem, you've just shifted it one bracket over.

With Arcforge not coming out for the forseeable (I was told) future, are there any other functional mech or vehicle classes or archetypes available somewhere that we can use?

>>47973003
So what you're saying is blinklings aren't shota, they're toddlercon.

>>47973011
Maybe they could add it to their patreon queue and see if there's real demand for it.

>>47972001
That was added to errata a long time ago, it just hasn't been updated in the main doc. The ability to exclude allies from the effect is shifted to 1st level.

>>47972950
>>47972985
the height chart specifically mentions that is just typical sizes for the races and that exceptions exist. Off top of my head Ratfolk bypass the small size height by only 3 inches.

Rechecking the halfling sizes however, got to admit, did not realize they were that short. Coulda sworn they at least hit 4 inches. Yeah that does put a damper on things.

>>47973011
People took our houserules as RAI gospel to confirm their own thoughts or biases, which is the greater concern.

>>47973085
>4 inches
Anon are you sure you're looking at halflings and not pixies or in your pants

>>47973068
Blinklings are a little taller than halflings (maybe they get called big guys).

>>47972785
Yeah, many of the hybrid races were pretty bizarre. It was basically mad wizard experiment galore except with humanoids. The Races of Consequence aka Simply Bloodlines and Children of the Planes books has crossbreeds of all the PC races and various extraplanar exemplars (e.g. elf/dwarf and orc/leonal) and it still doesn't top anything in Bloodforge.

>>47972917
Never ;-;

>>47973090
Yo, Gareth, are Warlord and Stalker supposed to have good Ref saves RAI?

>>47973044
You can't and you never could, not under AD&D and not under 3.x/PF. Keyword-based mechanics don't work without GM arbitration.

>>47973093
feet I meant.

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>>47973085
I assume you mean 4 feet. Yeah. that's actually kind of weird though. The average 5-7 year-old is taller than a Halfling.

>>47973148
Really because uh there's actually a hell of a lot of features that affect monsters by type.

>>47971611
>Ritual of Possession
What's this from?

>>47973160
I love that the dwarf is literally a forehead over the line. "ABOVE FOUR FEET. TECHNICALLY MEDIUM, GOD DAMNIT!"

>>47973106
Not that I'm aware of.

>>47973183
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18130777&postcount=337

What about this?

>>47973163
And how are offloading things onto subtypes any any worse? Monsters can only have one type, but any number of subtypes. I would consider than an improvement over arguing fluff and crunch about what is supposed to be what.

>>47973105

I would join a campaign with you based on getting cute dragon-girl waifus for solid royal bloodlines, anon.

>>47973160
It always seems weird when I'm reminded that gnomes are taller than halflings.

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>>47973199
Aw thanks anon.

>>47973188
Welp.

Look, anon: we'll get back to that when we post the errata doc for playtesting. Or at least when I'm not rushing out the door to head to work. I'll be a phone for the next six hours or so; please remain patient.

>>47973220
Okay.

>>47973213
It really feels like it should be the other way around, right? Halflings are child-sized (instead of toddler-sized), gnomes are just larger fey pixie things.

>>47973090
If you mean the thing about 6th level initiators getting 9th level maneuvers, that's probably because it works out way better to just have it be a native thing rather than "Yeah you can do it, but you gotta do janky feat+PRC combos"

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>>47973167
[PZO9255e] Pathfinder Campaign Setting - Chronicle of the Righteous, p. 47

>>47973044
>subtype bloat
We have PRD effects right now that target specific animal phyla like birds or rodents, which isn't even a subtype. We can cope.

>>47973231
Exactly, gnomes should be barely Small, closer to garden gnomes.

>>47973276
Ah that explains why I couldn't find it, thanks.

>>47973090
Just do it like this?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?195647-ErrantX-s-Homebrew-Feat-Compendium-II-This-one-s-not-closed!

>>47973220
>>47973188
I wouldn't, they're already strong enough without crazier saves.

>>47973332
what a weeeeeeeeb

>>47973276
>>47973325
It should be noted that, RAW, the Ritual of Possession grants those without Channel Energy the ability to channel for 2d6 at will, with no daily limit on the number of uses. This is an error. According to Amber Scott, the author of said Ritual, the intent was 3+CHA times per day, as seen here. http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xe9/discuss&page=9?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Chronicle-of-the-Righteous#418 However, no errata for that has yet been issued, three years later.

>>47973255
Wait. Can't archetyped initiators, by RAW, pick up 9th-level maneuvers just through Advanced Study? I thought that was half the point of them having a full initiator level.

So how does it work, you have to PRC to set your progression to full? Where is the jank?

>>47973403
It seems pretty obvious that when they say 'if you do not have the ability to do so, you gain that ability' as in, you gain the ability 'channel energy' under the cleric ability of the same name.

It specifies the DC change because you're not a cleric, but everything else should be the same. IE it doesn't specify the burst size either, but we don't naturally assume it's infinite. Thus it follows the same #/day rules

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So what's wrong with Arcforge? I wanna play a psychic warrior mech pilot but a reliable source says it's not good-for-use yet. But I took a look through and it seems okay. What am I missing that I need to fix?

>>47973255
How the hell can you get 9th level maneuvers as a 6th level initiator?

Isn't it bound by your initiator level? Advance study doesn't give you higher levels maneuvers than you can normally get.

>>47973440
Yes, they can, but you need to do PRCs and the feats to get it.

Rather than just... having it be innate, which the only reason it isn't is because of "product identity"

>>47973475
your reliable source is a cock, re-examine their reliability.

>>47973459
It does not say "you gain the ability to do so as a cleric", merely that you gain the ability to do so. I agree that the RAI is clear (especially given that the author clearly explained their intent), but the RAW is not.

Another point I have just noticed. It states that the damage of your channel ability will always affect evil outsiders, as well as undead. Nowhere in the entire ability does it say you must channel positive energy, nor does the ability you gain require you to choose positive energy. One who channelled negative energy, then, could use this Ritual to cause their channel to affect living and dead alike with impunity.

>>47973480
>>47973483
6th-level initiators have a full initiator level, so by taking a PRC (which doesn't care about their archetype progression rules for some reason?) you suddenly can grab maneuvers of the appropriate level for a full initiator. The only thing hobbling 6th-level initiators is their chart, they have the actual initiator level.

So this is confusing. When they say "product identity" I assume they were either told directly or implicitly that anything that gives regular classes full initiation would, what, get the Pazio hammer to crack over their heads? You can't have a 9th-level initiation Fighter because it's too obviously better than Paizo even though the Myrmidon is already a straight upgrade?

>>47973483
This is exactly what I'm talking about. That's not the only reason but it doesn't seem to matter; people wanted ninth level maneuvers on the archetypes and took one designers personal house rules as proof it was "meant" that way.

>>47973568
Can you give me an example of a level progression that would give you access?

Also, do you mean the archetypes that limit your max initiator level, so you bypass that with a PrC? I just don't see how that suddenly jumps you to 9th level maneuvers.

>>47973583
Because nobody gives a shit what you meant, people care about how it feels like it should function, and what improves the functionality of it. PoW functions better when you've actually got a proper 9th level progression. Without it, it falls kinda flat.

>>47971409
Pathfinder is in dire need of rules cleanup. There are countless rules that are redundant, contradictory or so common they need to be standardized to stop wasting word count. Damage reduction and energy resistance need consolidation. We have a dozen variations of animal empathy (wild empathy, lycanthropic empathy, vermin empathy, blah blah), speak with animals (speak w/ birds, speak w/ snakes, blah blah) and various other special abilities. The different scaling between arcane and divine spells and would be better served by just limiting the spell level available divine casters to 7th level like in AD&D. Spell levels aren't even a good indicator of balance, since paladin-only spells are outright better than cleric spells of the same level and could be easily relegated to class features. Blah blah blah. For a game with so many finnicky subsystems and an obsession with systematizing everything there's an appalling lack of cleanliness.

>>47973669
We have disagreements on that score. If we couldn't have made it work, we wouldn't have gone for it.

>>47973668
Okay. So. The archetype chart spreads maneuvers across the levels in a progression similar to a 6/9 caster, with new maneuvers about every three levels. BUT it still has a full initiator level, just like the bard still has a full caster level despite never gaining 9th level spells.

Then, you take a PoW prestige class. Basically any of them really. That prestige class doesn't care about the archetype chart's 6/9 progression, because it uses the default 9/9 chart. It only cares about the archetype's initiator level, which is full.

>>47973757
>Okay. So. The archetype chart spreads maneuvers across the levels in a progression similar to a 6/9 caster, with new maneuvers about every three levels.
Actually it's pretty much the same as full initiators have, only it stops at level 13.

>>47973728
I mean, you didn't make it work, soooo...

>>47973501
>>47973475
uh, PCs get mecha that boost all their stats into the fucking stratosphere along with retarded damage and special abilities to break action economy...

...into the trash it goes. if you looked at Arcforge and thought "this is okay" you're too far down the "if it's not a full caster this is okay" rabbit hole to save.

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Would you an android?

>>47973828

Seems to work fine to me. The Bard archetype that trades spellcasting for maneuvers is a blast.

>>47973830
The mech stats for level are enhancement bonuses that don't stack with belts. It makes it easier to afford expensive ass technological weapons.

>>47973828
Myrmidon straight upgrade
Ambush Hunter HUGE upgrade (hide in plain sight + move with BOTH you and companion to recover, flanking bonuses, companion gets to initiate)
Hidden Blade straight upgrade (invisibility forever)
Primal Disciple straight upgrade
Rubato is a downgrade, definitely, spells are too good to lose, but it's still Tier 3
Polymath is a straight upgrade
Warpath straight upgrade
No one has ever played a Marksman
Nightmare is sideways
Silver Fist is an upgrade
Knight Disciple in an upgrade

WTF are you talking about?

>>47973836
So, could an evil perso/creature capture an android, shove it in some kinda demiplane where time moves quickly,steal the soul, and just wait for a new soul to inhabit the body? Repeat as needed?

>>47973947
Maybe, but an android like that likely wouldn't be idle; either figuring out a way to escape or, if escape is impossible, committing suicide so no new soul will come to the body.

>>47973986
Couldn't you just lock it up really well? Shit, there are spells that repair shit right? Couldn't you find a fucked up android refinery, magically repair it and have loads of fresh souls?

>>47974025
They can still starve; their type is Humanoid (Android) not construct. They also need to breathe, so the only way you're getting away with this is magical domination.

>>47974082
Forcibly implant a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone and an Iridescent Spindle Ioun Stone.
The android should be enable to extract them without external help.

>>47974150
>be unable
Fuck my typos

>>47973895
>invisibility forever
Only in combat.

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>>47973836

I am open to the concept.

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Can Detect Magic detect (Su) abilities?

>To determine the school of magic, you make a Knowledge (arcana) check at DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.

>>47973669
I've found that pow works better with 6-level initiators. Burning feats to get the more powerful moves feels RIGHT, and tends to be a lot more balanced than OP shit like the warlord and zealot.

>>47974287
Gambits are at-will abilities, anon.

What martial classes do you guys most want to see "Unchained"?

Personally I want Fighter, Cavalier, Brawler, and Gunsliner, in that order.

>>47974443
>Due to their reliance on the stresses of combat to bring out the best of the hidden blade, gambits cannot be used outside combat.

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>>47974449
Initiating voyageur archetype.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/4-winds-fantasy-gaming/voyageur

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyageurs
>The voyageurs were regarded as legendary, especially in French Canada.[5] They were heroes celebrated in folklore and music. For reasons of promised celebrity status and wealth, this position was very coveted. James H. Baker was once told by an unnamed retired voyageur:

>I could carry, paddle, walk and sing with any man I ever saw. I have been twenty-four years a canoe man, and forty-one years in service; no portage was ever too long for me, fifty songs could I sing. I have saved the lives of ten voyageurs, have had twelve wives and six running dogs. I spent all of my money in pleasure. Were I young again, I would spend my life the same way over. There is no life so happy as a voyageur's life! [6][7]

L E G E N D A R Y

>>47974504
Unchained != made initiators

>>47974472
Ah, I see. Carry on then.

>>47974449
Fighter and Gunslinger. The brawler is already more flexible than the fighter. Could definitely go for making Stamina a core ability for fighters and giving them access to Vigilante talents.

Has anyone used the Armor Penetration rules for firearms from Arcforged? I'm thinking about using them in my campaign.

>>47974393
That is exactly what it says, isn't it? Nonspell effects include (Su), which are magical but not actually spell-like.

>>47974978
I definitely prefer them to firearms hitting touch AC, that's for certain. Sadly firearms were not really designed with this in mind.

>>47974978
I have in combination with a Guns Everywhere setting. Liked it once we got used to it

Does anybody have a copy of the creation handbook for spheres of power?

Speaking of spheres of power, I'm having a little trouble with the Spellcrafting rules.

It seems like if you try to do anything that out there with it you end up very quickly with a spell tat takes forever to cast. Has anyone found some combos that do something useful but stick within a full-round or so casting time?

>>47975421
Doubtful, since creation isn't even in playtest yet

>>47975504
Somebody said that one version was around, but it got pulled quickly so not many people have a copy.

>>47971628
Why do you keep posting this stupid shit?

Is there any way to reflect mechanically the fact my character is a Eunuch?

>>47975653
This isn't FATAL

>>47975681
It isn't a fetish thing. Literally my character is incapable of engaging is coitus. I know there are effects that care about sexual attraction (stuff like Unnatural Lust). I did not know if there were traits or drawbacks that gave mechanical benefits/penalties for being a Eunuch.

What's the irc /pfg/ hangs out on again?

>>47975776
>Literally my character is incapable of engaging is coitus.
That's a fluff thing, not mechanics. There are no mechanics for pregnancy or fertility.

>>47975792
#gofuckyourself on irc.cancer.net

How do I build a member of the Steel Falcons?Third party is allowed, at GM discretion and all first party is allowed.We are starting at level 1 and going all the way to 20 (hopefully anyway).

>>47975795
There are mechanics that revolve around sexual attraction. Mainly giving bonuses to saves against certain spells.

>>47975795
Not that anon, but there are things that matter for attraction or the like. Some have a higher DC if you're attracted to the caster, and a eunuch should be immune to succubi level drain.

>>47975872
Literally the prestige class called Steel Falcon
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/steel-falcon

>>47975903
>and a eunuch should be immune to succubi level drain.
Uh, no.

>>47975909
>How do I build a wizard
>You just choose the wizard class
No shit I knew about the prestige class what do I do before that and what feats and weapons do I use dumbass

>>47973830
The stat boost is minimal, and is an enhancement bonus. Less of a stat boost than, say, Rage, or any other number of boosters.

The damage is far from retarded, in fact unless you really fuck around with the slot system most of the damage upgrades will come from not the mech; for the most part mechs only offer an alternative to "Powerful Build + 1 Enlarge". Most damage on mechs comes from multiclassing with something that GIVES you big damage.

Their real value is actually defensive: You get hardness (which does help), halved elemental damage, and a big stack of HP the damage you take gets shared into. Kind of like if you removed most of the utility and versatility of an Aegis, in exchange for their defenses not being worthless crap.

>>47973830
Mechs cannot break the action economy, in fact mechs and vehicles don't even get their own actions unlike a mount.

An ECLIPSE can break the action economy... but that's not a mech. That's a Dread, doing what Dreads already fucking do.

>>47975921
Why not? Succubi don't actually have any sort of lust aura, just a drain based on "acts of passion". And eunuchs.... well, they tend to have some issues with that sort of thing.

>>47976109
It doesn't say you have to enjoy it. Moreover, even forced kisses from the succubus on an unwilling target qualify.

>>47976132
True, but the base assumption would be that the target has some ability to feel arousal. Even if the succubus is kissing a gay guy, she can always take a male form, say just the right things or overpower him and rely on the response of his body whether he likes it or not. A eunuch... just doesn't.

>>47976206
>True, but the base assumption would be that the target has some ability to feel arousal.
It is not.
A succubus can perfectly legally level drain a mindless creature.

>>47973830
I don't see a problem. Put the party up against more powerful enemies, maybe with mechs of their own.

>>47976226
Now I just want to see a succubus that tried to drain an ooze and got eaten.

>>47975818
Well hang on now that doesn't seem quite right

Is there an established way to stat losing an arm in Pathfinder? Our last session ended with the Barbarian getting his arm chomped off at the elbow by a shark, and he's worried that he'll have to retire the character for it.

>>47976206
>True, but the base assumption would be that the target has some ability to feel arousal.

Wrong. The succubus is a supernatural creature, it can elicit desire from even things that should not possibly feel ANYTHING in the first place.

Thats why they are dreadful supernatural monsters.

I swear these threads have gone increasingly retarded as the months gone by.

>>47976109
>Succubi don't actually have any sort of lust aura

When you have 25-30+ charisma you don't need any additional preternatural powers.

>>47976079
They are set to lose hardness and instead have DR/- and some energy resistances.

>>47976627
You would to seduce a Eunuch.

>>47976583
The ability specifies acts of passion. If a being can not feel passion I say it would not work. Most animals feel a base passion and humanoids feel passion, outsiders, fey, dragons. However mindless creatures do not really. A eunuch would not either.

>>47975962
Start as a voyageur and choose Weapon Focus as your first feat. A lot of voyageur players think dual-wielding paddles is the best option because it's obvious but voyageurs use Strength more than Dexterity, so it's well worth it for you to play a half-elf (Ancestral Arms feat) and choose Weapon Focus (Canoe). Your party won't believe how strong you become by level 3.

>>47976737
Eunuchs can feel passion.

You are autistic.

Mechanics trump fluff.

>>47976627
It doesn't matter how high your Diplomancy is, you can't seduce things that have no capacity to be seduced.

>>47976583
Really? I must have missed that ability. Is it (Su) or (Ex)? And the real threat is them being based on Christian values and "Sex is bad, mmmkay?"

>>47976737
>However mindless creatures do not really.

Sure and mindless creatures can't be affected by mental spells and androids have no souls, but androids do have souls and mesmerists can affect mindless creatures with a trick.

If a creature cannot feel passion then make it, if a creature of absolute order faces you, break it, if its too young, too old, different gender, asexual, demisexual, panromantic aeroflux genderbinary tumblrspawn corrupt it, thats why a succubi is a succubi. Its not just LAWL SO HOT its seduction and corruption made flesh, an incarnation of lust itself.

>A eunuch would not either.

And my castrated cat still fucks no problems despite having no balls, and he isn't being seduced by supernatural creatures.

>>47976737
No, it absolutely works on eunuchs, you fucking munchkin piece of shit. Please show your DM this thread so he understand that you should never receive any kind of bonuses or resistance to anything based on literally sewing your own cunt shut. How fucked up as a minmaxer do you have to be to want to play overpowered broken EUNUCHS because you think you can squeeze out an extra +1 somewhere?

Succubi can easily level drain you, and I hope they fucking do, while shoving ovaries up your ass so you can finally be pregnant with something other than your own writhing delusions.

>>47976654
Yeah that's pretty retarded, they won't be worth taking in a lot of cases if all they offer is "everything ignores this DR" and "energy resistance but not so much that you don't override it with that ring you have to take anyways", which is what's gonna happen.

>>47976832
>>47976917
Sure is salty, ineffective succubutt in here. What happenned, the paladin was immune to your charms?

Does the fact that they can crossbreed with dogs imply that halflings are really no better than pets?

>>47976832
>And my castrated cat still fucks no problems despite having no balls, and he isn't being seduced by supernatural creatures.
Are you sure.

>>47977014
Paladins aren't immune, just more resistant against magical manipulation. Mundane manipulation works perfectly well though.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

>>47971409

Is this thing a boy or a girl

Either way, I kinda wanna fuck it.

>>47977034
Cheliax clearly has the right idea. May even be treating them too much like people.

>>47977034
they're halflings
half a person at most.

>>47977077
They are better at resisting than most folks because of high charisma scores. Changing a paladin's attitude through diplomacy is relatively difficult compared to most folks.

>>47977077
Diplomacy skill doesn't work on PCs and paladins get immunity to both charm and compulsion. Time fer a smitin'!

>>47976917
Why are you so mad?

I mean I got my answer at least, there is no stated way to be a Eunuch, positive or negative. Being immune to a succubi's level drain or not doesn't really matter as it would only ever come up while being grappled by a succubi.

>>47977099
Isn't there some bit of lore stating how they literally only exist as a reflection of humans?

>>47977107
A relatively difficult task is not really all that difficult for a specialist built entirely around the idea of social domination. If you have on average 8HD worth of skills and a minimum of 27 charisma then passing high DC checks will still work more often then not, and thats not counting racial modifiers, situational modifiers, leverage, etc.

>>47977078
Based on the eyes, hair, and lack of chest? in this artstyle, that's definitely a young boy.

>>47977125
Who said the paladin is a PC and you can't reasonably smite something that has greater teleport at will.

Energy Drain (Su)

A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.

Nowhere does it say this is mind effecting, a compulsion, or that only a kiss is required. Groping, frottage, dry humping, licking, tailsex, and all other acts of physical lust are perfectly viable, and nowhere does it list any creature that is immune. Anything that can die is subject to this attack and it's effects.

Now shut up.

>>47977225
Because if it's an NPC then who cares, they get drained as a matter of the story. And hey, a full attack smite may very well drop the fiend before she can escape.

>>47977034
The beast/humanoid hybrids in Bloodforge are the result of mad wizard experiments (again?!), as explicitly stated in their descriptions. Humanoids cannot normally crossbreed with animals or magical beasts.

>>47977301
Which is odd because this means groping oozes work, the suggestion doesn't though.

Come to think of it the ability is partially mind effecting because it suggestions.

>>47977225
Greater teleport at will takes a standard action. Lose initiative, you get a smite. Since smiting is a swift action it means you can even get a full attacks worth of smiting in a single round.

>>47977339
No.

Suggestion is a mind effectign ability. The energy drain is a sstrictly supernatural ability that inflicts negative levels and may also include a suggestion effect.

Fucking rules lawyers trying to lie their way into shit again.

>>47976939
What ignores DR/-? Adamantine doesnt. Path of War has some maneuvers thst do sure, but now Arcforge isn't a DSP release.

Also from my understanding

1. You dont get the defensive bonus from wondrous items
2. Its gonna be resistance to multiple energy types.

>>47977339
Basically succubi are poorly written and inconsistent, not a big surprise since 3.pf came along.

>>47971409
Could somebody who owns Halfbreeds & Hybrids share what hybrid races are in the book? I want to know before I buy since its not in the trove.

>>47977398
Smite ignores all DR

>>47977459
Oh well.

>>47977339
RAW suggestion portion will affect mindless creatures - it is an effect like suggestion, it is not a suggestion spell or spell like ability. It literally forces the creature to feel lust, even if it can't normally. It's not a suggestion spell, it is a non-complusion, nonmind effecting suggestion effect that forces more acceptance of lust.

It's like some supernatural force makes anything feel lust regardless of if it is capable. That means constructs, undead, vermin, and anything else immune to mind effecting effects can feel lust for a succubus.

Which makes perfect sense because succubi are lust.

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>sitting here ironing out my character's level up, get message that session is kill so I decide to just keep working on character sheet and looking for possible things to do with this mess
>mfw giving my alchemist a tumor familiar and trying to figure out all the details, including what to do with it down the line
>mfw remember that improved familiars cannot get the Valet archetype, meaning I can't graft a homunculus to my alchemist's arm and have it help me make shit without GM fiat

Well fuck.

So how did everyone else's weekend game(s) go? If one's in progress, how's it going right now?

>>47977434
It became Bloodforge, anon. It's in there.

>>47977695
Sorry, I meant the book by Little Red Goblin Games. Racial Guide 2.5. Same subtitle.

>>47977527
You could always just take Promethean Disciple and create a construct limb homunculus

Can you use a PoW counter against an ongoing curse effect?

>>47978211
Maybe? Depends on the counter.

>>47977398
Mechs already lock out your armor slot and AC booster items.

You can keep powers up on yourself for it but at high levels your AC won't be great, although the mech's AC does go up about equivalent to an armor you're enchanting to eventually +5 more or less. Shield ain't a bad idea despite the slot.

>>47977782
Ahh, my bad. Best of luck, my friend.

>>47978307
I don't know which counter it was, but it let him use his sense motive instead of his will save.

>>47978349
Should be able to use it whenever he has to make a Will save.

>>47978349
Sanguine Perseverence? Probably something like that. He can only use the counter if he could make a save against the effect normally, in which case he uses his Sense Motive against it instead. He can't just randomly pop it against the curse at any time.

>>47978321
Have you ever built a mech character? My AC was never a problem.

>>47977989
Yea, but it's still no going to have the stuff a valet familiar would have, which was the main reason for taking the discovery to begin with.

I already have Promethean Disciple though, so I might do it anyway.

>>47978422
It's changed recently; was natural AC now it's armor, and rings of deflection or even your luckstone or whatever's AC bonus won't apply. Can't stack force armor on the mech either now.

Before, while AC items weren't working, you had the mech's natural AC, easily +6 from inertial armor...

Now my current character can have:
8 (biped level 12) armor, 2 from abilities and racials to natural armor, 7 from a +4 shield, 2 dodge and 8 dex.

That gives 37 AC, which is not great at level 12. Not terrible, but not good. And a bit of that comes from being Gestalt, with just the one class track it would probably be down to 33.

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So any fun times this weekend? Any story times? Any cute times?

>>47978531
I just wanna say, at level 12 I've only ever seen a character breach 32 if they were actually investing significant gold in AC.

So even as a single class being 33 AC at level 12 and having a healthy amount of DR and Energy Resistance while also splitting Damage between two targets is pretty god damn sturdy.

>>47978653
>>47978531

Average attack bonus for a combat role monster with a CR of 13 (an average encounter for a 12 level character) is +24.

Make your own correlations.

>>47978653
Doesn't take significant investment, but high depends on the build. If you're playing a dex character with any kind of spellcasting (a finesse alchemist for instance) you're gonna have very high AC.

10 (base) + 12 (dex) + 4 (chain shirt) + 2 (enhancement to chain shirt) + 4 (natural armor from mutagen) + 5 (barkskin) + 2 (size) + 2 (deflection) + 1 (luck) = 42

That's a reasonable amount of money spent, and offers a fairly high AC.

>>47978795
This also relies on having 34 Dex at any given time.

>>47978795
>34 Dex
>Only 4 of it applies because you're a fucking retarded nigger and used a Chain Shirt with a +4 max dex

Good work. 10/10. Build of the year right here.

>>47978895
As an alchemist it is reasonable. Mutagens at that level last 2 hours. If after two hours of combat you don't have an hour break to brew a mutagen something is seriously wrong.

The rest comes from Beast Shape II, which you will have probably 5 of (more likely 4 with something else prepared as your 5th extract).

It is a reasonable assumption for those buffs to be up.

>>47978933
Celestial Mithral Chain Shirt m8. 12 Applies.

>>47978795
That dex is kinda high.
More likely around 36: 8 from the mutated dex, but just +1 from the ring.

Makes it a low amount of money spent (6000 saved, about 5% WBL 12th) and still a solid AC for your level.

>>47978778
32 AC there means you're hit on an 8+. Not too bad for someone with a Mech's additional HP, but dangerous for a squishy who should really consider a miss chance source.

>>47978933
Lets be real, he'd have a mithral chain shirt with +6 max dex.

>>47979001
34 is perfectly reasonable for a level 12 alchemist when heading into battle.

6 from mutagen, 4 from beast shape 2, 18 base, 4 from belt, 2 from levels.

>>47979008
If you're a dex character and you're not wearing Celestial Mithral cheese armor you're doing it wrong. If your GM doesn't allow that then you're wearing bracers of armor.

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I lost my first character today. Playing CotCT during book 4, the battle with Cindermaw.

My inquisitor thought it'd be a good idea to have everybody not wanting to be swallowed whole invisible and flying, which proved to be a terrible idea when he repeatedly attacked the only target he could see, her. By round three she had 8 HP, had been unconscious and near death the round earlier, and was only now being swallowed whole after using chill cream as if it were whipped cream and using the blood that covered her mangled body as strawberry sauce. Then she actually got swallowed whole and the bite damage took her to -30.

I don't want to blog, but she was the favorite character I'd played. The party discussed burying her at her home in Magnimar, but a new player to the group suggested instead raising her from the dead to finish her mission.

My question is, does anybody have any ideas for what the brash, cynical and once cripplingly lonely Half-Orc Inquisitor of Iomedae should act like after being resurrected? What kind of "ordeal" could she have gone through? I already know that she'd have met her now passed mother, and having been judged by the gods, and will likely have a rocky style training montage as she beats away the anger of having fallen in the first place.

>>47978644

anon you are cute. cute!

>>47979174
If they do it in a timely manner likely you never reached your afterlife of choice. Likely you were waiting to be sorted by Pharasma.

>>47979174
Creatures never remember their experiences in the afterlife, just as petitioners never remember their mortal lives.

>>47979174
either a totally disillusioned
>It was just as stupid, just as purile and pointless as any other court we have in the flesh

OR
>Hints that maybe she saw Iomedae and that dragon she fucks performing scenes out of The Aristocrats, but never able to word anything directly, as if she was censored

>>47979279
>>47979312

Ah, excellent point. That lets me incorporate an important part of the character, her having not wished to take up the mantle of Inquisitor, having been pressured in to it by racists in her particular sect when she planned to become a cleric. Maybe her soul accepted the raise out of fear of true judgement, or

>>47979331

She saw Iomedae taking Apsu's dick and is too much of a prude to deal with it.

Anyone got the Everyman Options: Kineticist book out there?

If I die and know planeshift, what the fuck is stopping me from just plane shifting back into the material world? Beyond some pissed off outsiders that is.

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>>47979174
Asmodeus was trying to set her back on the path of light.

>But that implies she's strayed
>What the fuck?
>Did I hear that right? I can't have heard that right. Asmofuckingdeus wouldn't be trying to make someone be a paladin again.
>... right?

>>47979393
Depends on the deity. Most of them have you lose everything when you die.

You keep everything if you worship Gorum, but if you die worshipping Gorum you are the kind of person who is in a true paradise and would need significant reason to abandon it.

>>47979442
I mean while you're waiting in line to be judged. Ghosts and shit can still use spells, so you don't lose EVERYTHING when you die and daemons can snatch souls in the waiting line so it isn't a secure system either.

Hey guys, lets talk about Unchained Cavaliers.

I'm here to ask you all, what do YOU want to see out of an Unchained Cavalier. What kind of features do you think they need to perform on par with other classes.

In my mind they need versatility both in and out of combat, and the ability to function without their mount (the mount being almost a drawback from the class rather than a feature).

So I'm here to see what you all think while I am designing the Unchained Cavalier! I could discuss the concepts I have been tossing around as well!

>>47979416
Asmodeus values Law as much as he does Evil.

>>47979480
Why not focus on making the mount a better part of the class, rather than improving their ability to function without it? I mean, in theory, the mount is what makes the Cavalier a cavalier, rather than just a knight.

>>47979416
The thing is, Asmodeus effectively is in a bet with his dead brother, claiming that when given free will humanity will always choose the "wrong" answer, and that only by being a tyrant of the world can he hope to command the "right" way to go forward. By helping an Inquisitor of Iomedae (a native Chelaxian and one of the Good deities that Asmodeus actually legitimately likes, alongside the maybe-hatefucking of Sarenrae) return back to life and finish her mission, he's proving (possibly only to himself) that he DOES know what he's doing and that it IS only by his hand that people can do the proper and right thing.

>>47979511
Because a mount is useless in 90% of games because of size and logistics issues.

>>47979480
Rewrite the mounted combat rules and the Ride skill so they don't fucking suck.

Then make the Cavalier able to do things using his mount nobody else can.

>>47979531
That say's more about the Cavalier as a class concept than anything else.

>>47979480
Giving the Unchained Cavalier something resembling the Brawler's Martial Flexibility so the he can do stuff off his mount as well.

>>47979511
My thoughts on it are situations where having a mount is simply not conceivable. Situations such as being inside a place too small for a horse, or having to climb a cliff, and more. Unfortunately the mount has a very hard time getting into such places.

As well if their companion becomes too large a part of their class the death of said companion gimps them too strongly.

Either the companion must be robust and versatile enough to serve the Cavalier in a variety of situations, or be a small enough part that they can get by without it.

In the current draft Cavaliers have a system of Oaths, which function similar to an Oracle's revelations in design. They choose Oaths, which give them a number of varied abilities in a theme, Oaths are tied to their Order. Now, some Oaths do improve their mount.

I could make Mount improving Oaths a stronger focus of the class, doing things such as make Mounts capable of more hair pin maneuvers, and operating in smaller spaces, or even mount progression to make them able to traverse more difficult terrains (or hey, even fly).

And idea I have tossed around is allowing a Cavalier to have a number of mounts he is bonded to, and having one active bond at a time. These mounts being for different purposes (a flying one, a burrowing one, etc.) and having Oaths/Orders possibly be able to give them access to different interesting mounts.

Thoughts on this as a way to improve mounts?

>>47976518

There isn't anything besides losing that arm and the attendant equipment slots.

There should be spells for restoring limbs.

>>47979619
Let Cavaliers have more than fucking horses as a normal feature. Their whole ability is riding something, right? Give 'em magical beasts and dragons and whatnot added as they level, Beast Rider shouldn't even vaguely be a thing.

>>47979538
Mounted Combat rules do hold back Cavaliers. Perhaps give them a class feature that actually improves their ability to fight on horse back? Not rewrite the section so it is that way for everyone, but make it unique to cavaliers, and provide a number of feats to give access to just these class features.

>>47979531
>>47979541
Which makes designing a redo difficult. Mounts are logistic nightmares.

>>47979605
I am saving expanding on Martial Flexibility for when I try and do Brawlers. I think Cavaliers need something unique about them that isn't just "More Feats". They need class features that make them do things only they can. This is all my opinion of course, feel free to disagree.

>>47971409
What's the most ridiculous hybrid race you ever saw in a published book?

My nominee: every half-humanoid/half-beast from the Bloodforge and Little Red Goblin Games Racial Guide 2.5 books.

Honorable mention: the orc/leonal aasimar variant from 3.x Children of the Planes. It's an entire race of good-aligned orc paladin stereotypes created by the exiled token good orc goddess, like some mirror universe equivalent of drow.

>>47979654
Yes, but having multiple horses introduce a logistical nightmare again. Perhaps give them a number of mounts they can be bonded in based on their level.

1 at first level, another at 2nd level, and then one every 4 levels there after (so they have 6 at level 18). Then when they gain their Order at 2nd level their Order grants them access to a list of animals they can bond with. Then as they level up this list expands as they get order features. Oaths can open up unique options as well.

These are not "Instead of" class features, but are gained in addition to what ever the Oath/Order power is and ties in with their flavor.

At start Cavaliers would have access to the same creatures as before, but beyond that everything would be modular.

>>47979696
Everything in bloodforge, literally everything.

>>47979661
Cavaliers are basically the 'You are a Knight' class, and one of the best things to improve a shitty mundane class in PF is to make it Not Mundane Anymore. I don't mean give them spells, but if they are to not-celestial and not-fiendish things (elementals, aberrations, plants, dragons, whatever) what Paladins and Antipaladins are to those things, respectively, it'd be way more interesting.

Remove Orders entirely, at least what already exists, they fucking suck and are boring. Make Orders, or perhaps Philosophies or Attunements or whatever, an oath to abide by and serve some supernatural lord - after all, a lordless knight is no knight at all - and grant powers to them based on that and their level, like bloodlines or mysteries. You can even keep your Oaths thing - it'd be like the Oracle's Revelations to the Mystery that is the Order.

>>47979723
No, not multiple horses, you shit. More OPTIONS besides 'YOU GET A HORSE OR A DOG, BUT IF YOU TAKE BEAST RIDER, YOU CAN HAVE A LLAMA!' This should be relatd to the above ideas - allow more mount options based on their attuned Lord.

>>47974504
>Literally a Bard or UC Rogue with enough Profession skill points, in dedicated class form
Worst class ever

>>47979416

>it's a "nozaki gets no sequel" life

why live

>>47979736
What about a komodo rhino or riding ostrich?

>>47979763
All not even vaguely as cool as a dragon, manticore, or akata.

The issue with cavalier, is that it's a very "talk to your GM about the nature of your campaign world and campaign in terms of both geography and biodiversity"

>>47979723
Have a set of abilities. One set is Mounted, one set is Footman. Each has their own stuff for the mount abilities. Footman replaces them with normal shit fitting for 2h fighter stuff.

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>>47971409
Psionic fish waifus are best

>>47979810
But no pussy.

>>47979726
But anon, the humanoid/humanoid hybrids are only mildly ridiculous.

>>47979828
Metamorphosis anon. Metamorphosis

>>47979736
>You can even keep your Oaths thing - it'd be like the Oracle's Revelations to the Mystery that is the Order.
A full description of what a Order currently does is this:
>On the same progression now they get Order features, however instead of having only one they choose from three. This is because the current 24 orders have been consolidated into 8. Each time they would gain a feature they instead choose from one of the three consolidated. The three consolidated ones were done so for similar theme.
>They gain a new track of choosing Oaths. Like I said Oaths are similar in design to Revelations. Oaths that key off of ability scores key off of Wisdom (this goes with the change to challenge that Cavaliers may now challenge a number of additional times equal to their Wisdom mod)
>Every time you choose an Oath or a Order feature it provides you a new possible bonded companion, where you may switch out a current companion for one of these new ones are little to no cost.

>>47979736
>No, not multiple horses, you shit. More OPTIONS besides 'YOU GET A HORSE OR A DOG, BUT IF YOU TAKE BEAST RIDER, YOU CAN HAVE A LLAMA!' This should be relatd to the above ideas - allow more mount options based on their attuned Lord.
That is what I am saying. Your Oaths, Order, and choices should open new and interesting options. However it is difficult to make new ones when they do not act like Animal Companions in some way. That's why Elemental/Aberrations/Dragons are difficult as they are intelligent and don't follow companion rules, but act more like cohorts. I could simply write stat blocks though, and may).

>>47979802
See the issue with this is that they just muscle over on the Fighter's space and don't provide a unique perspective any longer. It may be better to make Mounts work rather than make Cavaliers into different fighters.

GM here, I've been toying with the idea of introducing Spheres into my game and I'm not sure how to go about it. Should I just shove a couple of Thaumaturges and Symbiats in the next cult they wipe out?

>>47979872
Why not just make ones with Int 1-2 like animals?

>>47979893
That's because Cavalier is literally a better Fighter.

>>47979788
Yes, this is an issue. You're playing "Mother May I" with the kind of creatures your GM will give you as mounts.

I could write a class feature that says "Yeah, you gain access to THESE stated mounts" for a Demon Bat or some kind of Fey Moth, but a GM could turn around and say "No, those don't exist.".

I could make them agnostic saying "These are stat blocks, they don't have anything attached", but that would bleed all the flavor out of the orders.

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>>47979872
>>47979902
Actually, I went through all the magical beasts in the core bestiary line and wrote up animal companion statblocks for them before. check it out.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EccqnBPWI-JcduFcz1EryuGxkrMY_jbrpSgZz2ZEVCU/edit

>>47979859
Vagina isn't on the list of attributes and it'd make her not a fish waifu anyway!

Also WHY DO HER TITS HAVE SPIKES. WHY DOES SHE HAVE TITS AT ALL.

>>47979872
You can definitely just make the mount follow animal companion rules but change its creature type and its base stats, natural attacks, and special attacks based on the kind of creature it's emulating.

>>47979906
See, I've already made an "Unchained Fighter" which I believe really improved fighters and solidifies them in a niche. I'm still working on it to make it better, but am satisfied with it being functional at the moment. I want to separate Cavaliers as the "Noble Knight".

Also the fact out of the box cavaliers are worse than out of the box fighters.

>>47979902
I definitely could, and may. I could just include a bunch of stat blocks. In fact I may do just that. I'll have to go through and search through everything.

>>47979960
Pretty sure unchained fighter is the alpha fighter with stamina and advanced weapon training.

>>47979960
So... basically what do you want the Cavalier to do?

>>47978644

Well, learned a few things.

1.) The local nobility aren't keen on seeing their princess married off to some elf

2.) Our elf bard responds to thinly-veiled racism by publicly humiliating the offender

3.) Proxy duels are apparently a thing in this kingdom

So, a royal wedding is in the works, the majority of the party is busy consolidating their resources and such with the reward we got from the king, and I've got a list of hired psychopaths I need to fight for the sake of honor. Also found out that our gunslinger is not, strictly speaking, human. And that she has a crush on my character.

>>47979935
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EccqnBPWI-JcduFcz1EryuGxkrMY_jbrpSgZz2ZEVCU/edit
You sir are a saint and a great asset. Would you mind if I include these in the Unchained Cavalier document if I credit you with a link and name? If so what would you like your credit to be?

>>47979959
>You can definitely just make the mount follow animal companion rules but change its creature type and its base stats, natural attacks, and special attacks based on the kind of creature it's emulating.

I'll go through the Fey, Aberrations, Vermin, Dragons, Outsiders, Elementals, Plants, and Undead that fit the bill. A kind Anon has apparently already done Magical beasts.

I will likely use the criteria as "Has between - and 2 int, and is at least medium size".

>>47980031
Feel free to copy them wholesale; I'm just glad someone can get some use out of them. I usually go by Halae online.

>>47979480
How can I get more use out of my horse/riding utensil in enclosed spaces. I like the idea behind the beastrider archetype kinda like the warg riders in lotr but it just didn't seem to be able to keep up with other martials very well. Overall I find the cavalier too limited in what they are good at even more than the fighter.

>>47979996
Be able to do mounted combat properly and emulate the "Knight" archetype. I apologize I do not agree with them being made more fightery, but I think it muddles the field.

For reference the Unchained Fighter is here:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1twEab3PBHvzMLTrx_UJak4P9g5avkvVaZfrBiMPI-6s/edit?usp=sharing

>>47980031
>I will likely use the criteria as "Has between - and 2 int, and is at least medium size".

This is dumb. Intelligent creatures over INT 2 can serve as mounts just fine - they're just making a conscious decision to do so.

But so far you've proved to be fucking stupid so I have no hope for your shitty homebrew.

>>47976239
And for people who aren't playing mech pilots?

>>47979726
Even the merg, kestrel, and houri?

>>47979897
Sure, though start off small and have them seem only slightly odd to tease it to your players, don't go out and say anything explicit. gradually ease them into it and guide their hips. If any of them want to eventually learn, have them encounter some kind of artifact or something to rewire their magic that's what my GM is allowing anyway

>>47980085
>This is dumb. Intelligent creatures over INT 2 can serve as mounts just fine - they're just making a conscious decision to do so.
The issue with having about 2 int is that they are no longer companions, but cohorts. Giving someone a cohort as a class feature seems like a bad idea in my book as it gives you another sapient NPC that can make its own decisions following you about.

I'm personally against Leadership as a feat.

As well, giving people to access of lists of sapient creatures as mounts seems like recipe for trouble for how they acquire such NPCs.

If you think this could be remedied somehow I am perfectly willing to hear it! I can try and incorporate your ideas into the product. I am always willing to take criticism and hope to improve to provide you guys with a satisfactory product.