EDH/COMMANDER GENERAL

Any predictions on colorless Eldrazi from the new set? We know we're getting a minimum of 5 more. Will you be using them (assuming their effects work in line with Emerakul's mechanics?)

Personally, I run a colorless Eldrazi deck with newlamog as my commander. I'm stoked to finally have Emmy in my deck too. I have some processors wasting space in my deck, so I hope these new Eldrazi can take their place.

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I use pic related in my Kalemne deck along with urza's incubator. I need to cast in fatties not cheat them in so it helps a ton. My friends and I are super kitchen casual though so my decks are far from optimized.

Anyone got some Super Spicy Secret Tech™ in UW

So how does Delve on Tasigur and commander tax? Can I delve that away?

>>47960204
Yes.

Looking for some help with my Experiment Kraj deck. Need to cut it down, by like, a lot. I know there's a few things that are fairly unnecessary, but I kinda like all the pieces in it and I'm not sure what to pull.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/experiment-kombo/

>>47960370
Cut Chord of Calling for Green Sun Zenith. You're not gonna convoke much unless your meta dosnt run a ton of removal/wipes.

Consider adding Verdant Confluence.

Whats Spectral Searchlight doing for you that you need it?

Horseshoe crab could be cut, but I do like it.

I don't know if you really need Sakura-Tribe Elder. Your draw should get you plenty of lands plus you have other searches.

Triskelion is gonna be underwhelming unless he can get a hell of a lot of counters.

Whats with Ulvenwald Tracker being in there?

Have you considered Champion of Lambholt?

Anyways just some thoughts I had as I looked over your list. Looks like a pretty fun deck, cheers.

Need some advice for my Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. First time building a deck. Any staples I should I add to this baby?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-06-16-BVv-omnath-edh/

>>47961217
Seedborn Muse and Vorinclex if you want your table to hate you.

>>47961243
>Vorinclex
Not that anon, but how do you rationalize spending $20+ dollars for a card?

>>47961310
How do you rationalize paying eighty for denim jeans?

How does anybody rationalize any cost? They want it.

>>47961310
Vorinclex isn't 80 dolla.. oh. 20? He wasn't twenty that long ago.

>>47961310
>he doesn't have a single card worth more than $20
Come on anon, you're posting in money-pit general, we all have foil Force of WIlls and Goyfs.

>>47961243
Vorinclex tends to draw more hate than he's worth. Unless your table is MLD-proof, everyone will want him gone, and will want you gone before you can T&N some other assholish bullshit into play.

>>47961310
>thinking $20 is expensive for a card in any format

>>47961310
You're asking this in a thread for EDH, the official format of conspicuous consumption?

>>47961414
How expensive is too expensive then?>>47961384
I don't pay $80 for denim.
>>47961486
I usually only pay 20+ for a card as a special occasion.

>>47961598
>How expensive is too expensive?
Let me put it this way, I'm considered extremely casual and my collection is worth $1500ish. For a fun night, I routinely spend $60 just to DRAFT Eternal Masters. I'm not even guaranteed anything good, just pure random chance to have fun.

Buying singles is a much more intelligent investment.

>>47961625
EMA is a 40 dollar draft man, you got ripped off. Hell, I got ripped for for 40 bucks. Still had fun.

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>>47961695
Anyone else voltron master race up in hurr?

>>47961625
I mean I don't mind spending money incrementally on my decks. Spending a lot of money at once is something I'm opposed to though. Maybe that's just me being really frugal though

>>47961695
It's 60 canadabux because eternal masters packs are $16 dollars each, or 3 for $45 before tax. We play prize per win, so if you go 4-0-0 you wind up with $60 in prizes, not including what you pulled from the 3 draft packs you get.

The point is, $20 on a magic card is small time. I picked up Elesh Norn yesterday and didn't really think about it because it was under $50.

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>>47959391
For my indes Avacyn and Young Atarka tribal decks.

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>>47961816
See, I have a crippling gambling addiction and I'd much rather throw money at magic than pro-line or the racetrack near me. At least this way, even if I spend $60 on a fat pack, I maybe have a chance at getting some money back and having some fun, instead of immediately burning my money with nothing to show for it but a hangover.

>>47961820
Twenty bucks is usually about my limit on a single card. I spend loads of money on MTG, but if a card in my collection is more than 20, I am looking to move it.

>>47961820
Oh, haha, canada money. Ours also ended up being single elim, one pack per win in terms of prize support. Ah well.

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how does this deck look? i would like some feedback please. pic unrelated

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-great-cycle-v20/

Is there more to black than just saccing creatures for effects?

>>47962244
Black also has Gary Merchant and Exsanguinate for big numbers.

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Trying to build an enchantress commander deck.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/20-minute-turns/

>>47962244
Don't be silly, Ashnod's Altar is colorless.

>>47962244
Phyrexian Arena.

>>47961771
What black man would be good for voltron?

>>47960181
Its Bant, but Drogskol Reaver + Horizon Chimera = a Doomsday-less Lab Maniac Combo

>>47959391
I have Etherium Sculptor in my Azami deck. It's really good when you drop it early.

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>>47962440
Only one of the best voltron generals period.

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>finally get around to making an edh deck
>open up my collection
>I have a grand total of 4 legends not currently in use by my other decks
>sliver queen sans slivers
>patron of the nezumi with like, 5 rats
>Lavinia of the Tenth
>Pic related
>go with mageta
>make wonky mono-white flying pillow fort with like, 8 different versions of pacify
Should I even bother trying to play it or should I just go buy a starter edh deck

>>47962395
Necropotence.

>>47962529
My first deck was Lavinia, people might look at you funny but she plays great with flicker spamming.

>>47962528
I like his original arab-esque art.

>>47962528
I meant mono-black general not that asshole

>>47962650
I guess if you're gonna be a bore, go for Drana, Kalestria Blood Chief.

Is it worth running possibility storm in a malestrom wanderer deck? My gut says no, but with other things that have cascade, it could be valuable. That being said, a focus on scrying seems kind of like a no brainer.

>>47962529
I have a friend with a mageta deck. It is pretty shit. It can boardwipe if it gets card draw, but it's hard in white as you probably know. He would probably be better if he was tuned to voltron, but hes white so thats pretty shit too. If I were you I would just buy a precon. They're pretty balanced and you can trade out cards one at a time to your liking. Its a great way to start in edh.

>>47960935
>cutting Chord
>ever

Here's the thing about Chord: it's an instant. Convoke or not, being able to tutor a creature into play at instant speed is too good to pass up especially in UG. In the deck >>47960370 posted, he can grab Venser/Snake to counter, Ingester for Removal, Vigor in response to something like Blasphemous Act, or Spike Weaver for a Fog. Plus, he can get clones, he can end of turn tutor for Sage of Hours for the win, or grab Plaxcaster for protection ect.
GSZ is a good card, but it only tutors green creatures. I think he should run both, but I wouldn't cut Chord for it.

>>47960370

I think you should run Deadeye Navigator and Glenn Elendra Archmage if you can afford it. Palinchron wouldn't hurt either. It's a wincon and can protect your commander in a pinch with the activated.

>>47962748
Rafiq bores me because he's so good.

>>47962748

Mirri the Cursed is a fantastic black voltron. Evasion, First Strike, Haste, and gets bigger on her own.

>>47962908
Again, the reason I said he should cut the chord is because, in my experience playing cards with convoke, if his meta is good with removal he wont often get to convoke. You gonna hard cast those creatures you listed plus 3 green just to counter or bounce? He may get some intended use out of it, but I kinda doubt it.

>>47963084
Convoke is basically flavor text on that card. The extra two green is for instant speed and for the ability to grab nongreen creatures.

>>47963084

>is it worth having none card that can potentially bounce, remove, protect, counter, and/or draw a bunch of cards?

Really? You are the first person I have ever seen who is against chord. >>47963098 gets it. You're paying a small tax for instant speed and versatility with the potential to have the cost significantly reduced. If you have even 2 creatures, they cost the same. You don't have to have 20 creatures on the table.

>>47961310

If I don't spend it on cards I'll spend it on booze.

>>47963250
oof, that one hit a little close to home

>>47963250
>tfw am Japanese so can't drink hard liquor
feels bad man

>>47963250
Just do what I do, trade away standard pulls for store credit, burn all your store credit on booze because the shop opened a bar.

>>47962524

How many artifacts do you run? I considered it for my own Azami deck but I only run 11 artifacts and some are 0 mana so I wasn't sure

>>47962935

He's not that good, he has high damage output but no natural evasion or protection

I would say his best feature is his GOAT color identity

>>47963084

Idk what kind of weird ass meta you have where people are doom blading your wood elves and rec sages, but Convoke is in no way useless because of removal

>>47963677
>not doomblading wood elves
It's like you want the big mana G/X deck to reach lategame as soon as possible.

>>47964006

I bet you're one of those people who think killing a creature with an ETB effect counters the ETB effect.

I'm sure you're just pretending to be retarded :^)

>>47959391
I only play Helm of Awakening for the Helm+Future Sight+Top combo because I'm a monster. In my experience, cost reducers are only really good in combo decks, or if they're attached to other beneficial effects like the warchiefs (or if they're broken like Animar).

>>47964168
I already explained my logic. If you think spending removal to ensure someone doesn't have nine mana by turn five is a waste you are beyond help.

>>47964176

In my experience cost reducers are always amazing but only if they are asymmetrical in favor of you, and only if they apply to the vast majority of your spells

Medallions in mono decks? Amazing

Herald of the pantheon in enchantress? Amazing

Mizzix? Amazing

Animar? Amazing

I suppose rakdos lord of riots breaks that trend though, because of the work you have to put in to him, the results are powerful but he's too finicky to be really good

>>47964244
What the fuck do you think Wood Elves does? You can't stop the ETB by killing it you fucking retard. You can only stop it with Torpor Orb or stifle effects.

>>47964244

Wew lads. I think he might actually be retarded.

How exactly does using Doom Blade on Wood Elves prevent anyone from reaching 9 mana?

>>47964300
Shit, I thought it was Llanowar elf variant. I am actually retarded.

Thoughts on Silverskin Armor in a Slobad deck? It makes him able to save himself when I make a Nev Disk Indestructible repeatedly or just Jokulhaups/Obliterate. Will he still be indestructible if he stops being an artifact?

>>47964336
I figured that might have happened, we all fuck up sometimes. At least you were mature enough to admit you fucked up instead of pretending you were trolling all along.

>>47959646
Giant tribal seems fun. Post a list?

>>47963084
>He's too much of a pussy to play creatures
>"They might get doom bladed!"

Dirty blue. Red or dead, motherfucker

>>47964436
Not exactly sure what you're question is but

Slobad can give himself indestructible until end of turn, even if he stops being an artifact before end of turn

>>47960935

Old Omnath pro, here.

Cut Helix Pinnacle. Don't be that guy. You're playing the best Mono-Green commander, have a little pride.

It's a bit of an investment, but you will NOT regret getting a Sylvan Library. If you're feeling really squirrelly, grab an Abundance to go with it. If you have both of them out you draw three cards a turn, no draw back, land or non-land. It's tits.

Unless you're doing elf-tribal, replace the mana dorks with land fetch, except for Karametra's Acolyte. If you ARE playing elf-tribal, just make Ezuri your general.

Why do you have a Vivid Grove?

I see you've got stuff in there to protect Omnath, and you're on the right track, but may I suggest something other than the standard suite f equipments: Things that let you cast Omnath at instant speed. Vedalken Orrery, Alluren, Winding Canyons. Mana should not be a problem for you.

None of these things are too expensive. Good luck out there.

where do you guys build your decks before buying the cards?

>>47965107

Why do people always underrate mana dorks?

Playing 3 drops on turn 2 is very powerful

>>47965142

Tappedout

>>47965107
Are you sure you aren't talking to >>47961217?

>>47965162
They aren't all bad, but I'd just rather have land fetch. Lands are just harder to get rid of. Creatures are the easiest permanent type to kill. Plus, it thins your deck out in a color that doesn't have a lot of card draw. It's a personal preference. I DO run mana dorks, Just not in my Omnath deck.

>>47965209
Shit. Yeah. Whoops.

>>47963560

God, id be in the even poorer house if I had a store like that.

>>47965265
>>47965209
The obvious exception being Karametra's Acolyte because she's hot shit.

>>47961771
Uril Aura Voltron seems fun. Anyone have any experience?

>>47965265

Land fetch is more powerful, that's why it costs more mana, personally I like to have ramp at every cmc 1, 2, 3, and 4, and I guess 5 too if you count mirari's wake and such

At 1cmc you can play search for tomorrow but other than that, you're mostly limited to mana dorks

>>47965378

Yes, it's fun but has the problem of being oppressively strong in 1v1 at times yet struggles in multiplayer

Here's my list

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/enchanted-afternoon/

>>47965389
Sol Ring, Search for Tomorrow, Burgeoning, exploration, GSZ into Dryad Arbor. Plenty of stuff.

Plus, I'm not too worried about he first 4 turns or so.

>>47965107
Just added all your cards to the list. Thanks so much for the advice. Due to Sylvan Library's cost I'll probably end up buying it later as an upgrade but for now that looks good. Any other upgrade cards I should keep an eye out for?

>>47965537

Didn't think of burgeoning or exploration

Those are definitely good, but only if you have lots of card draw in my opinion

Not a fan of gsz into dryad arbor unless you have a lot of Regrowth effects

>>47965547
Vorinclex is worth it, fuck the haters. Frontier Siege is ridiculous. Mirri's Guile is very nearly a divining top. You'll wind up dumping your hand a lot with all that mana, so anything that can draw you cards is great, especially if it's getting you cards for stuff you already do like playing creatures or lands. Soul of the Harvest is a great card drawer on a big body, Zendikar Resurgent gets you cards and buffs your mana production (and 7 mana is a breeze in this deck), Seer's Sundial has done some serious work in my deck and Tireless Tracker is my secret weapon. Even a Harmonize is a great addition.

>>47965570
Gotta have that card draw, son. See >>47965714
for secret tech.

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>>47962650
Volrath.
Discard Draco to one shot people, and use enchantments like Strands of Night to reanimate things on the fly including self-shuffling cards like Ulamog, Kozilek and Blightsteel Colossus.
Use cards like Rogue's Passage, Whispersilk Cloak and Dragon's Shadow to get around blockers to pound face.

>>47965570
Oh honey, I'm about to make your night. Go read the last line of GSZ. Go ahead, I'll wait.

>>47963598
24 Artifacts.

Well, built 2 decks today even though I don't think my group wants tin play with me anymore. I've played once in the past 2 months, and I know they're still playing.

Oh well.

I need to fix up my Krenko deck. What can I do?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/krenko-mob-boss-03-08-13-1/

>>47965866
Found the Stax player

Is it still a 'hug' edh deck if you start bleeding everyone half way through?

>>47965785

Shit dude I've been casting GSV for a while now and never shuffle it in

Wow I'm silly

>>47965791

Well that's quite a few, I can see how etherium sculptor would be great there

>>47961310
The fact that they'll sell for a hell of a lot more later.

>>47965934
Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life.

>That feel when you GSZ, shuffle, top deck GSZ

It changes you, man.

>>47965908

Never played Stax. In fact, I took apart my decks when they got too oppressive even though I had to play against decks that cost more than I paid for my car. You know, mana drain, crypt vault, force, Pact, ABU Duels ect.

>>47962440
I have a Volrath deck I'm working on. Essentially, run fatties, some evasion granting, little bit of recursion, and then just ramp and wipes.

>>47965980

I mean that particular scenario sounds nice, but it's actually a downside for me since I run so many Regrowth effects

I've been cheating

>>47966008
Ha! Fair enough.

>>47965980
Only had that happen once, but it was glorious.
>T1: GSZ->Dryad Arbor
>T2: Topdeck GSZ, GSZ-> Sakura-Tribe Elder

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>>47966120
GSZ is incredible.

If only you could run it as your commander.

Oh wait.

>>47965892
Get Skirk prospector and take out basically all of the instants except magma jet and maybe tarfire (a big maybe). Get some protection for Krenko Lightning greaves, Darksteel plate, shield of kaldra and the like. You might also want to get Thornbite staff and /or staff of domination, they can both make you go infinite with the aforementioned skirk prospector. Also take out lobber crew and goblin arsonist. Other than that I'd just add in some damage doublers, chaos enchantments or copy spells like fork. Oh also get Door of Destinies it's killer in goblin tribal, or any tribal really.

>>47966120

I've seen it a few times. Guy GSZ for Skull Muncher, shuffles GSZ back in, someone else cuts, he draws cards cards, and laughs when he casts it again next turn.

Craziest thing I saw was back when tuck was a thing. Guy drops Prime Speaker, someone Chaos Warps it with the trigger on stack, cuts the deck (we always do when someone shuffles something back in), flips Prime Speaker.

>>47966217
I want to build this guy badly. Like, with a musical theme. Any fun music-themed cards I could use for him?

>>47966346
Druid Lyrist

>>47966346
Elvish/Druid Lyrist are pretty good.

>>47966346
Song of the Dryads
Song of Titania
Elvish/Druid Lyrist
Elvish/Satyr Piper
Chorus of Might
Elvish/Joraga Bard

There's probably more but I'm too tired to search through magiccards.info for more musical terms.

>>47966411
>>47966412
>>47966438
Thanks guys, this is a good start.

>>47964640
The 2015 prebuilt decklist is actually a fair base
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Wade_into_Battle

It does have few too many angels, but you can find pretty cheap upgrade shopping lists around. The commander does kinda suck though, replacing it with almost anything (such as Iroas) really helps the deck

Is there a reason for me to not use infect in commander other than butthurt it will draw?

>>47966538
It's not that good unless Skittles is your commander or you can consistently cheat out Blightsteel.

>>47966538
No. People who bitch about infect are babies.

>>47966538
Actually thinking about that new snake from C15 for UG infect.

>>47966538
you need a critical density of it to work

>>47966538
Are you talking all infect or just having a blightsteel? Because I had a G/B Infect deck that worked relatively well. It's just kinda boring, really.

>>47966653
I was playing with someone who was playing Kaseto Snakes/Infect today. It worked well for him, he took out 2 people before the Azami player got Omniscience out and just won.

>>47966538
>tfw Grafted Exoskeleton is one of my wincons in Daretti

Might actually replace it with Blightsteel even though I can't cheat it out. Exoskeleton is just such a dead draw most of the time due to the lack of creatures with evasion in the deck.

>>47966710

That sounds like terrible target priority. Azami should've gone out first lol

>>47966778
Well the Azami straight up said that he wasn't running Mind Over Matter, so we didn't think it would be that bad. We were wrong of course but oh well.

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>>47966713
>Might actually replace it with Blightsteel even though I can't cheat it out.

I don't see any reason why an artifact centered commander deck would not run this

>>47966805

>guys I don't run MoM
>just ignore me and let draws tons on cards
>just ignore me pls :^)

Nah. Azami is rarely not target #1

>>47966837
I do, but there's no other reliable way. At the very least, I can still pitch Blightseel with Daretti's +2 if it looks like I can't cast it.

>>47966865
My bad didn't know you had forgemaster, I think blightsteel would work better in U/B, guy I used to play with could ramp up quick with those

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How do you make a good Kozilek, the great distortion EDH deck without taking any other Eldrazi titan

>>47966841

Shhh just let it happen

Intruder alarm helps everybody I swear...

>>47967292
colourless control or voltron

>>47967581
Any pointers for cards I should be using?

>>47967612
Lots and lots of ramp.

If your playgroup runs lots of nonbasic land hate (Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Ruination, etc.) then you want your lands to be at least half Wastes. If you decide to go this route, one good piece of tech is Extraplanar Lens since it's likely that nobody else will really be running Wastes.

>>47967612
voltrons pretty straight forward
control would using artifacts similar to and the same as in http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-05-16-glissa-stax/ just ignore the BG stuff

Any Karlov fellas out there willing to give advice for accumulating shekels and eliminating the competition? I can most likely use a good bit more lands for the guy but I am terrible at making cuts.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/that-rich-uncle-you-know/

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>>47967809
>no Whip of Erebos

>>47966710
Ryan?

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Okay guys, I just finished a game and need your opinion on a situation.

>5 player game
>player A just destroyed 2, is mostly tapped out, and is in a good position to kill the last 2
>player B is barely hanging on, nothing but lands and a couple smaller cards
>player C is doing alright with Kaalia and a bunch of powerful creatures, but nothing too scary
>player B casts pic related and since all his creatures has haste attacks player A
>player A has mycosynth lattice, darksteel forge, and a lot of awesome artifacts, but no fliers left untapped
>player A gets super upset and scoops
>if player A had not scooped and let B take his shit, B would have slaughtered C on his next turn
>since player A scooped, B had nothing and C quickly took the kill

Was player A justified in scooping? Was it a dick move? Was it a completely reprehensible move? I was one of the first two killed shortly before, so I'm outside of A-C.

>>47967990
Hey, I thought I might catch you on here.

Do you have your Teferi list up on Tappedout? I can comment on it there if you want advice.

>>47968010
Definitely a dick move, but nothing to cry over. If I was player C I probably would have scooped it up alongside player A out of courtesy.

>>47968010
Yes, yes, and maybe? A player can concede at any time as a special action. The amount of situations were that rule can be 'abused' is very limited (i.e: O-ringing something and then leaving the game)

>>47968063
>(i.e: O-ringing something and then leaving the game)
Are you talking about O-Ringing something and then conceding with the ETB trigger on the stack? Would the trigger even still resolve then since you and permanents you control aren't in the game anymore?

>>47968098
nah let the o-ring exile ability resolve, then leave. The return ability is on a separate text-line so it would trigger once the ring is off the battlefield but since you, the controller, are no longer in the game the return trigger and whatever you nabbed are perma-exiled

>>47968098
If you exile something with an O-ring type effect, then leave the game, the "leaves the battlefield" trigger can't happen, since you are no longer in the game. This means that the thing you exiled is gone forever (barring some Pull From Eternity type stuff.)

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>>47967880
Ah Christ I knew I'd miss something obvious. Gonna add that for sure.

>>47968131
as a side note to all Norin the Wary EDH players, always make it known to your playgroup that when you have Norin get exiled by his own ability, you are sending him to the Command Zone. His ability can find him there and return him with no problems. This will protect you from perma-losing him if the delayed-trigger return ability is countered by an opponent (sundial,voidslime,stifle)

>>47968030
I have it but it's set to private i think. im browsing on mobile at the moment so i dont want to go through unprivating it. Most of the things you suggested I had already planned on aquiring eventually, when prices drop or whatever. Currently replacing Tamiyo with new Jace. The rest is mostly money cards, like top and crypt.

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>>47968010

It's bullshit, but he has every right to

>>47968226
>that font
You again!

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>>47968243

Every time.

Off topic, but I want to know what commander infuriates us the most.

I can't stand derevi.

>>47968010
I would be livid if I was player B, that's absolutely bullshit.

>>47968206
I never found any of the Jaces to be particularly useful in the deck outside of Chain Veil combo. The most useful one for that in my opinion is Jace Beleren since infinite +2s get around Hexproof/Shroud/damage prevention/mill prevention/etc. I never bothered to test out new Jace because by that point I already had an Ugin and a Tezzeret, and once you have them you don't really need any other planeswalkers. I still run Jace Beleren from time to time because I have my deck partially built around Intuition and playing Intuition for Jace+Ugin+Haven of the Spirit Dragon on or before the combo turn pretty much guarantees a win.

Also one thing I forgot to tell you is that card draw is super important in the deck, so make sure you have Consecrated Sphinx, Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study, etc. People are eventually going to break through your lock pieces unless you have ways to counter their shit, so you need tons of draw to draw into either your answers or your combo pieces.

Here's my list if you care. It's light on the Stax elements now because I'm going for less of a stax route and more of a control route currently.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/teferis-intuition/

>>47968288
Rafiq, because there are like 5 in my local meta. I'm just fucking sick of seeing him.

>>47968010
Scooping is fine if you're going to lose anyway, but scooping to completely change how a game is going to progress is absolutely unacceptable. My group has a rule that if a scoop would have any real effect on the rest of the players and their chances, you cannot do it, and that's only fair; scooping exists to speed play along, or to simply not deal with the nitty gritty of a play(s) when the result is inevitable.

>>47968369
I hate Meren for the same reason.

>>47965990
Well godamn i heard about mana drain and wanted it for tasigur but i just saw the price. Fuck.

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>>47968369
>>47968393
>tfw your local meta has 4 Rakdos, Lord of Riots

Metas full of fun decks are god-tier

>>47968452

Yup. Mana drain is just aids. Ever see a Narset go off on T3 because they mana drained your Farhaven Elf?

>>47961217
-naturalize
+beast within
-drove of elves
+hall of gemstones
-randumb elf
+chain of acid
-randumb elf
+savage summoning
Resurgence is good too if you find yourself loosing Omnath too much.


I dig it op

>>47968357
I really like new jace since his +1 is card selection and advantage rolled into 1. It's like a mini teferi +1. His second ability protects teferi, and his ult combined with a stax piece should close a game out pretty well. I rarely have issues with card draw, and most of the decks i deal with (at the store and kitchen table) are creature heavy, so I typically try and establish a lock with evacuation/crush of tentacles+ archaeomancer/mnemonic wall. I should probably pick up a devastation tide too. My biggest problem with the deck is inconsistency, half the games I curb stomp a table of 4, and the other half it feels like i flood out, or just durdle until I die (goddamn i need a staff of domination too, 99 feels too small).

>>47968494
At the moment i just play casualy with friends from work and are just now getting away from precons. Thankfully we dont have anyone going cutthroat just yet.

>>47966538
Yeah, but imo going straight for infect creatures is the wrong way, combat tricks that grant infect like tainted strike are much stronger in Edh.

>>47968570
Manadrain is so far down the "cuttthroat" line you'll be safe. Most groups won't progress to that level unless they are seriously insecure, seriously competitive, or just rich.

>>47968518
>chain of acid
How did I not know about this card? This is amazing.

>>47968288
kaalia was annoying when there were 5 of us playing her

>>47968010
I personally try not to scoop as much as possible. I mostly do it on my last turn after all hope is lost and not before, even playing against stax, pillow fort decks because they will eventually realize how miserable they are themselves or in one case even scoop to their own deck (lol)
salty people get salty for dumb reasons, making bad plays like leaving yourself open and being stupid about the consequences is terrible behavior.
I often like to let new players get the satisfaction of the kill, unless they are gloating neckbeard with "the best deck" I've had too many people auto concede to single LD or hand disruption. shit is just lame.

>>47968542
New Jace is great and I don't get why he isn't played more and dropping in price. Propably because of cmc 5 with double u.

>>47968627
one of my pet cards, good against pouty opponents that react before understanding what is going on, even better against people with good threat assessment.

>>47968733
The reason why he's dropping in price is because he has to compete with Baby Jace in standard, and it's obvious which one is better. He'll probably go back up in price once Origins rotates out.

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>>47968750
Almost reminds me of kudzu, I want to run this in any rampy green deck, preferably one that doesn't care if my lands go to graveyard. Maybe gitrog, or titania. Kudzu is a pet card for me

>>47968778
love it man this is going in my angry Omnath deck.

can i just put a fireballs and kill spells in a deck and not lose 75% of games?

>>47968842
Does Exsanguinate count as a Fireball to you? If so, probably.

>>47968010
I'll concede to super lame decks that bounce all lands, but it seems that player should have just quit, but if it was in a formal setting player B would have still gotten the win.

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>>47968878
I love playing against people who scoop to mass land bounce.

It's a shame upheaval is banned.

Oh well, sunder and evacuation will have to do for now

>>47968570

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Also, don't be alarmed when the arms race happens, and it will happen. It's funny to watch happen because the decks are usually an incohesive mess with a few infinite combos thrown in, a people will boast about how their decks are the best. I've seen a lot of this first hand.

As you can guess, my group is pretty competitive. They think they're the best at the game, and to be fair they're really good. For awhile, I did think they were the best. I got into the game with them, got my ass handed to me by them, and eventually started winning against them. I didn't know how good I had gotten thanks to this until I went to another shop about an hour away with a friend.

He went to do his thing, and I asked about EDH. Turns out a few people played, and they kept talking about this one guy who had this super good Arcum deck. Up for the challenge, I decided to play against him. First, I used my Ashling because it was a good deck to test the waters, and I lost. The thing is that this guy was a miserable fuck to play against. Just a cocky shit, so I took out Bolas. At the time, it was undefeated in my group, and I crushed that little shit so hard he suddenly had other things to do.

Anyway, I've recently realized after this years that I've actually passed my playgroup competitive level. I learned that they're not the top. I'm not the top by a long shot, but I remember when it hit me. I toned my decks back and started to just let things to.

My point is just enjoy it while you can, and don't take the arms race too seriously. Let the group grow into their comfortable power level.

Sorry. I've been drinking

>>47968010
What a piece of shit.
He as the right to do so but that doesn't mean he should. Fucking manchild.

>>47969469
I'd do what he did. Fuck other people touching my cards. Half the time the fucktards shuffle them into their decks, and they always get their greasy fucking fingers all over my sleeves.

>>47969509
You should probably stop playing with fishmen, Anon.

>>47968627
>randumb elf
What do you mean by this?

>Nimbus maze has shot up to $30
What the fuck?

>>47968010
well technically, once a was killed off, all a's permanents would leave the field, and c would have won anyways. unless he was lifelinking some damage and if he attacked player c

>>47968010
I scooped to this bullshit like 2 weeks ago in my group. It would have set me entirely too far back to recover. If 1 card can put you back 10 turns then you are probably going to lose, so I think its fair for him scoop. I wouldn't personally be mad at him.

>>47968010
If A didn't scoop then C would have just forced everyone else to lose through Hellkite Tyrant's second effect. There's no way he could not have over 20 artifacts after a move like that. Scooping was the right thing to do since at least it lets the game end through a fair wincon.

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>>47961771
Does voltron token count?

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>>47969774
Holy fuck, bitch ass scalpers are at it again. It's not even that good a card.

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>>47970006

I hate these people so much.

>>47965759
Blightsteel has a replacement effect, so it never ever even touches the graveyard; its impossible to reanimate with Strands of Night unless you're cheating. But I'm not it your group so have at it

>>47961217
Sorry for the late reply

Since you have a Karametra's Acolyte, try a Umbral Mantle, Sword of Paruns, or Thousand-year Elixir for sweet infinite mana at 4+ G Devotion.

Also try Somberwald Sage.

My old Omnath build is a Primal Surge deck. If I cast it I basically win. It does need 99 permanents, an Akroma's Memorial, Doran, City of Solitude, an infinite mana combo and a mana dump to win (Kamahl, Nemata, etc.)

Earthcraft and Gaea's Cradle are nice things to have.

Temur Sabertooth has great utility in a big mana deck. Try casting Ulamog 2.0 multiple times after an infinite mana combo to get rid of unprotected threats.

I don't remember if you have Arcane Lighthouse but it's really helpful.

>>47966346
Citanul Flute
Drum hunter

>>47968459
4 Rakdos decks

Man, life really is a party when you're Rakdos. So much so 3 other people become Rakdos as well.

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>>47970594
>Gaea's Cradle
>almost $200
wat

>>47970704
It's around $120.

>>47970729
TCGPlayer says $193.45 median.

>>47970739
Median price isn't always the lowest NM price.

>>47970749
The lowest I could find was $150 though.

>>47970761
That's closer to $120 than $200. Did you really expect a card that broken to be cheap?

>>47970785
No of course not, it's still a lot though.

>>47970794
Not really, though I guess everyone has a different view on how much cardboard should cost.

>>47970704
I got it for much lower, around $150 a couple of months ago. It makes me think I bought a fake. But I don't give a shit anymore.

>>47970802
I mean I have trouble spending more than $20 on a single card but that's just me. I can rationalize it is a gift to myself or for the holidays or something but just on a whim is harder to do.

>>47970815
I honestly don't think someone buys it on a whim. I had to stop all MtG related purchases for months just to save up for buying just 1 Cradle. That was the time the Expeditions were released, so temptations to splurge were pretty strong.

>>47970845
Ok that makes more sense. I would usually get it as a present to myself but that is understandable as well.

Any secret tech for BG infect?

Running Vhati Il-dal as my commander.

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>>47968010
>people bitching about tactical scooping
Suicide is heroic in EDH. Sometimes you need to off yourself to save the rest of the table.

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>>47968494
>tfw just got a fucked up Italian manadrain for 60 dollarydoos
I love getting the ghetto version of expensive staples.

>>47971196

Nah, shit is dishonorable as hell

You can do it if you like but don't pretend you have respect for yourself

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>>47971232
It's the perfect way to shut down combos, since sometimes there's just no other way.
>guy with infinite mana capsize buybacks your permanent
>you scoop, it fizzles

>guy necromancy's your shit and is going to kill everyone
>you scoop, everyone lives

>guy in the lead feast and famines your ass
>he'll untap and rape everyone if it lands
>you scoop, no untap trigger

Sometimes the winning move is to kill yourself.

>>47971257
I still wonder if I could use this in a tournament as an "altered art Barren Glory". It's functionally the same, after all.

>>47971257

All 3 of those moves are lame as hell

Play to win, don't play to kingmake because you don't like the way the winner played

Also you're simply wrong about "shutting down combos", instead you only make it so that the only way to win is really simple clean combo kills, fair decks that beatdown with combat triggers and lifelink and such are hurt most by tactical scooping

>>47971285
Barren glory triggers on a specific step. The cheese stands alone is a state based effect.

>>47971295
They're lame if you get butthurt that someone dying prematurely fizzles your combo. I consider giving the EDH game a little more life if everyone's having fun a good thing.

My favorite thing is the guy who gets so butthurt he pretends his triggers happened, because he doesn't believe in tactical scooping.

>>47971320

>forfeit game to prevent somebody you dislike from winning
>he's the butt hurt one

You are delusional lol

>>47971318
Oh yeah, you're right.
>tfw they balanced an unhinged card and actually printed it.

>>47971320

This is literally no different from any other king making play, you could do this without scooping, do you realize that? You could spend all your removal on the player you dislike, and swing on them all game, use unsummon to save a creature he tried to destroy, handing the game to a player you like

But you wouldn't do that because everybody rightly recognizes that it ruins the game and makes you a fag

And the same goes for scooping

>>47971342
I've never seen the scooper get butthurt about it at our game store. I've only seen a handful of people get super salty for having their wincon blown out.

Luckily our game store is pretty chill, so this thing is usually met with laughs as the would-be winner is blown the fuck out.

>>47971360
The same doesn't go for scooping at all. Kingmaking is wildly different from preventing the win. Git gud

>>47971344
They did the same with the Forecast mechanic. It was on Infernal Spawn of evil.

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I'm trying to play Mikaeus without any infinite combos and right now Gary and Kokusho are my only good wincons. What archetype should I build for?

>reanimate
>"mono black good stuff"
>devotion
>etc

I lost pretty bad last week to Brago and Temur Superfriends.

>>47971405

Explain how it's different from any other kind of king making (you're so ashamed you can't even call the tactical scoop by its real name, king making)

>>47971420
Thanks to the scarcity of staples in monoblack aside from the obvious, you can run all of those.

"Devotion" is literally just Gary, and a lot of the great black cards lend itself really well to it. Mike himself is already at BBB. Necropotence is BBB. Phyrexian Arena has BB. Just little stuff like that adds up to a lot.

Reanimator just means sticking animate dead / necromancy / reanimate / whatever else into your deck, which you can easily make room for.

Then just run tutors, cofferborg, rock ramp, maybe contamination and infernal darkness if you've got the right setup, and some value dudes for Mikaeus to explode with.

>>47971429
King making is going out of your way to make sure a player wins. Scooping is making sure the guy who just tried to kill everyone doesn't win.

Like, I won't scoop to some guy's lifelink trigger, because who plays lifelink in EDH. But if you're gonna off the rest of the board, I'll do my best to keep everyone else in the game.

>>47971448

Everybody is trying to kill everybody, or did you forget? It's a free for all game

What could be more "going out of your way" then scooping? The essence of King making is not playing to win and instead playing to make somebody else win, that's what you're doing when you rage scoop

>>47971474
EDH often turns into a game of archenemy when one person gets ahead. Making sure one person doesn't win at that exact moment is wildly different from making sure a specific player wins.

>>47971495
It's not wildly different at all

I've never met anybody who frowns on kingmaking but somehow thinks the simplest and most quintessential form of it is okay

Like I've met faggots who do the tactical scoop all the time, and those same faggots will start the game holding grudges from previous games (you blew up my sol ring so I'm going to make sure you don't win)

>>47971420
Consider not being such a scrub and just run Triskelion without tutors. You'really still going to stomp scrubs with Dirty Mike shenanigans and just get laughed at by people with real decks for running an intentionally inferior deck.

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>>47971553
It's okay not to understand the difference between not-winning and not-losing, anon. EDH is a tough format to grasp.

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*airhorn*

>>47971573

Wait is this the same dude?

The one with the trolly reaction images? The one who is ultra retarded and hides behind sarcasm and doesn't engage with arguments that defeat him?

>>47971573

Any time you choose to make sure a specific player doesn't win, you are also choosing to help whoever won, magic is zerosum, there's no difference

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>>47960370
Get Prime Speaker Zegana
You can put extra counters on her before the draw trigger.

Champion of Lambholt is a great backup plan if you need to swinging for combat.

I'm taking Skill Borrower because damn that's spicy

>>47960370
>Things to cut
Thrive
Treasure Cruise
Simic Ragworm
Aluren (is risky)
Mindless Automaton
Grand Architect(?)

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>>47963250

>booze
>not weed

>>47963250
>>47971772
>Normalfags
Fucking gross.

>>47961384
>80 for jeans
Not him but what. Good means are in the 250-300 range

>>47971816
*jeans

>>47971816

Nah those are conspicuous consumption jeans

Good jeans are 50-100

>>47971690

Maaaan, I hate Kraj so much. A member of my playgroup was pondering which commander to do for a Simic deck and I suggested Kraj knowing his tastes in mechanics. Now I regret everything.

I should have said Vorel.

Is Cromat a valid commander? I've always liked the card and kinda want to build a deck around it.

>>47971816
>>47971842
My $250 RRL jeans are the best pair of pants I've ever owned doe. Legit top quality.

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So, presuming this is going to be a legend, any guesses on what an eldrazi-twisted angel would be color and mechanics-wise? Would it even be colorless? WB? BR? I know it's kind-of silly to want to play a card as commander before its reveal, but I have a certain group member who is an angel-fetishist and I'd like to do the antithesis of his waifu.

>>47971987

All the 200 dollar jeans I've owned have looked really stylish but weren't as comfortable as my fave pair of 80 dollar jeans

>>47961771
Creatureless Voltron GO!

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mgs-kamigawa-crisis/

>>47972018

I can guarantee you black will not be involved, I'm kind of lost as to what made you think that the colorless eldrazi causing a WR being and a UW being to merge would result in a black being

The result will either be colorless, UR, or WUR, I'm 99% sure

>>47972018
Apparently its Bruna + Gisela merged into one thanks to eldrazi shenanigans.
So it could easily be Jeskai colors (UW + RW).

>>47972018
Extremely unlikely to have any black. They move stuff out of black for Innistrad because it would lead to too much black otherwise. That's why you see stuff like blue zombies, red vampires and white Fallen Angel.

My guess is either colourless, or a white card that flips into colourless.

>>47972018
I pray it's playable in EDH. This is the first general I've wanted to run for art direction alone.

>>47971785
>drinking makes you a normalfag

>>47972097
>>47972089
>>47972057

Well, I'm all for it being something like WUR, but I'm guessing they aren't doing 3-color stuff in this block after the Tarkir cooldown (?). Honestly, I'd be most excited for colorless, as I've never done colorless before simply because the available commanders don't excite me.

>>47972111
Well, glad I'm not alone then. I'm also hoping for a Geralf-and-Gisa legend. But like... a flip legend expressing the sibling rivalry where each side is one sibling and the mechanics reverse what the other does.

>Geralf sacs multiple zombies to make a big skaab than flips
>Gisa sacs a big skaab to make lots of little zombie then flips

Would play the shit out of that.

>>47969774
I picked up a copy for my Esper mana base about 2 months ago, I think i paid ~5 for a NM. I heard something recently about how that cycle would never exist because it effectively had too much text.

I need some general advice, so far I have two decks. My first deck was just me taking the Simic precon, using kaseto as a general and optimizing it. It ultimately became a voltron deck. My second deck was going to be something along the lines of human tribal, after play testing an optimization it turned into a voltron deck.

How do I make a deck that doesn't become voltron after play testing? Is this a common pitfall for newer edh players or am I just my own flavor of retarded?

>>47972223
My first deck played a little voltrony, it can be an easy path to follow but you're not sunk yet. Focus less on cards that just buff one other card. Aim for more global effects and cards that are individually strong and have synergy with more than one creature. What's your second commander?

Tactical scoop is fine because it dissuades people from attacking you or whatever they were doing that you can interact with by scooping (infinite mana capsize, for instance)

At the very least you force them to come up with a safer win con that can't be ruined by your scoop, which increases your chance of winning

This means that threatening to scoop was the tactical play, not actually scooping, but actually scooping is outside the game and is only relevant to outside the game concerns (such as the weight of your tactical scoop threats in the future)

>>47972304
Tactical scoop is just king making.

>>47972741
Sho thang bitchboi

I'm looking to get into my lgs' edh scene in the near future and would also like to build my own deck. What are some commanders I could look into that wouldn't make everyone collectively sigh when I say "I'm playing X".

I'd like to not be a faggot.

>>47972834
I actually only read that post, I hadn't realized that you guys had been through all this.

But yes, the idea of using tactical scooping to encourage people not to make strong decks so people won't scoop for the sake of not having you win and instead have someone else win is king making. You gain nothing by scooping.

>>47972881
Every popular commander has haters. If you want to not offend anyone, your best bet is a obscure commander in a color combination that isn't hated.

You could do Chorus of the Conclave.

>>47968010
Player A did nothing wrong. Once the game became impossible for him to win (and I'd say losing all your permanents qualifies), he had every justification to scoop. Player C is the one at fault for accepting such a hollow victory.

>>47972931
What color combos do you see get the most hate?

>>47972907

I'm not the guy who said you're a bitchboy

I'm the guy who wrote the longer post to reopen the conversation

I completely understand your view, and I used to agree with you, but I disagree

If somebody is relying on lifelink to survive after swinging on you, it benefits you to threaten to scoop, because then they have to think of another plan

If somebody has infinite mana and capsize in hand, but no other way to draw cards and win (somewhat unlikely), then it's in the interest of everybody to threaten to scoop if their lands are targeted with capsize, making the player with infinite mana know they can only kill one person

>>47968518
Hall of Gemstones is fucking jokes, dude. I'm literally the only person in my group who even owns a mono-colored deck. The only downside is it makes my Seedborn Muse less good.

>>47970518
Iirc sudden spoiling/humility effects allow it entry into the graveyard

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If you had your commander in hand, could you exile it with Semblance Anvil and have it go to the command zone and still get the cost reduction on creatures?

>>47973336
Read imprint you stupid fuck

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Does gods count as creatures during ETB, but not enough devotion when that happens?

>>47973358
Nope. Gotta have devotion when they resolve. Creature spell until it resolves, not a creature as soon as it's on the board.

>>47973358
No, they enter as Enchantments only. They are creature spells when on the stack though, and creature cards when anywhere else but the battlefield or the stack.

Was talking with a friend about try Commander but I have a question, is this format just for fun or it's flooded with 5000$ deck guys on every LGS?

>>47973121
So, the notion is to threaten, not go through with it, in order to trick them into keeping you alive? That seems fine, but actually going through with it isn't self interested, which isn't something you want to encourage.

>>47973074
I would avoid every mono except white. Esper and Bant are hated pretty hardcore. 5 color is a magnet to hate.

In terms of two color, I believe only UG and UW are hated.

>>47973406
If that's your mentality you're gonna get butthurt the second someone drops a card worth more than 20 dollarydoos on the board

>>47973406
Yes. It'll depend completely on who you play with.

>>47973406
Stick to playing with friends.

>>47973406
Yes

>>47973406
Just for fun. You can spend as much or as little on it as you eant. Again, this is highly dependent in your playgroup.

>>47973408
>I would avoid every mono except white
The only mono that will draw you extreme hate is mono blue, and that depends on how jank or busted your commander is.

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Does anyone have any spicy elementals or clerics?

Right now I found this sultry bastard in my bulk uncommons box and was going to give my Ayli deck a little cleric flavor.

On the other hand, I'm trying to make a fun malestrom wanderer deck, and I thought by making it an elemental tribal I would at least reduce a bit of the salt it's sure to generate.

>>47973408
Monocolors are completely dependent on commander. /edh/ has a boner for monored commanders even while it says monored is trash because Godo, Kurkesh, etc. can still be interesting and fun.

Does anyone actually hate UW? I've never seen that.

>>47973495
Preacher, Priest of the Blood Rite, AngryOmnath+Evoke.

>>47973495
Clerics are at their best if you go full tribal with them.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/casual-primers/508706-primer-decks-clerics

>>47973495
Grand Abolisher
Suture Priest
Sin Collector

>>47973553
I'm actually running grand abolisher, suture priest and sin collector already. Awesome, I'm off to a good start!

>>47973547
>Priest of the Blood Rite
Oh you magnificent bastard, that's perfect. I'm just going to be saccing things anyways, I might as well get a 5/5 demon out of it.

>>47973549
Thanks anon, I generally enjoy mtgsalvation articles. I'll be sure to give it a thorough read.

>>47973495
If you're running some sort of bounce/graveyard recursion, edgewalker + priest of gix means infinte black mana

>>47973495
I just drafted up a Orzhov cleric list if you'd like to take a look.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/athreos-likes-tricking-new-players/

>>47973408

Actually going through with the scoop IS self interested though, you were going to lose anyway, you should scoop because it shows that your threats of scooping are real and players must respect them if they want to win

>>47973600
I actually have a question about recursion/bounce shenanagains, what are some basic combos out side of mike and trike, people run? I have an ashnod's altar in there, I'm just not sure how to take advantage of it.

>>47973618
That looks pretty spicy anon, I need to pick up a few key pieces, so my build will be significantly worse, but I'm thankful I got to look at a decent list.

>>47973547
They do (UW).

And every mono has a hated deck which doesn't usually rely on commander. Monoblack decks general is cabal coffers, for example. And even if the monogreen deck isn't Azusa, they likely are doing similarly annoying stuff. The thing about monodecks other than white, is they tend to be all the monobrown worth hating and all the good cards in that color worth hating.

>>47973631
At best it teaches players find win conditions that aren't gimped by game rules. At worst people won't play with you.

>>47973679
well, there's the good old sanguine bond / exquisite blood combo.
reveillark + karmic guide + altar or blasting station is also a win
Teysa can also to alot of fun things involving exiling all creatures if you pair her with the revelguide combo

I don't play BW much so that's all I really know of

>>47971002
Kill yourself

>>47973749

Sure

these situations don't come up very often anyway

It's not like you can't just slow roll your infinite mana capsize, bouncing key permanents one at a time to avoid getting blown out by the scoop

Or if you're relying on lifelink, attack a different person

Sometimes you end up in a situation where you either give the game to player A's crackback by attacking B, or you give up the game to player B by not attacking them and then they combo off

In that case there was nothing you could do to win and it's all because player B had the option of tactical scooping

That's why I think it should be allowed, it makes competitive sense

>>47971196
>tactical scooping
Yeah I'm bitching, because this shouldn't be a thing

>>47973876

I understand your frustration but I think it makes sense in many cases, it's not just a sour grapes thing, it can be the right play

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Is this going to draw hate when I play with it?

Opinions on this slow grinder/pilowfort deck. I'm aiming to win with Azors or steal a wincon from whoever I'm playing against

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/enchantment-oppression-2/

>>47973960
No clue. That's one commander I want to go against because he seems fun.

>>47973960
from what I've played against, its pretty fun to pull off but once people get to know your toolbox cards, its quite easily countered. Also since its hit face and not much else I find it to be quite boring to play (from the times I have borrowed the deck)

>>47973989
I just finished building my first deck with him. Gonna take it to my LGS on Friday and see how it does. The combo potential is amazing.

>>47974065
That's something I'm kinda worried about, there's not much variety to it. Maybe it'll stay fresh if I keep rotating different dragons in and out.

>>47974146

You could have 10-25 dragons to choose from, idk why that would get boring, you're not gonna get to use them all every game

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>be an Orzhov enchantments deck that runs a lot of nonbasics
>cheeky Norin player laughs his ass off everytime he resolves a Ruination on me
>mfw I pick up my copy of Conversion

>>47973406
Depends even on the LGS. That being said, certain commanders to lead to cheaper decks, those that can abuse cards that most others can't. Generally those that drop massive cards for nothing tend to be cheaper. My under $200 Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck regularly slaughters $1000+ decks. Also the fact that it is multi-player helps a ton as on top players get gang raped, and bad players get ignored.

>>47973960
Only if your turns take too long

>>47968357
new jace combines with gilded drake very well.

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>>47971772
>>47971785
>not LSD
You haven't really played EDH until you've played it with moving art, tracers on your tokens, shadows shifting around the room, flowing patterns on nearby surfaces, and a short term memory of about 3 seconds. Ironically, I've won most of my LSD games, just because no one thinks the guy who can't string a sentence together is a threat until it's too late. I just can't play decks that involve a lot of searching because I'll literally get lost in the decks.

>>47973960
Some people might assume you're running Hermit Druid.dec and groan, but that will be cleared up after your first few turns of play.

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>>47974328
That sounds like a horrible idea. How will you even read cards you don't know? What if someone drops something with 8 lines of text, explains it to you, and your response is "Woah man, did you see the way this is looking at me? Fuck if I want to get in the way of those time bending horns."

>>47974245
>Conversion

Fucking love old school color hate like that. So fucking backbreaking against certain decks.

>>47966217
Imagine if they tweaked this guy and made him use expeerience counters. Hes too soft to removal imo, but if they changed him a little he could be great

>>47974384
>The best Goat creature isn't red

Why?

>>47974434
Because xenagos is red and green. I think saytrs count as goats.

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>>47974434
That should be obvious, anon.

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>>47974434
Just wait for return to lorwyn, then it'll be white

>>47974429

He's banned in French 1v1

But then being weak to removal matters more in multiplayer i suppose

>>47974384
My solution is to just know all the cards beforehand.

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>>47974490
Sorry anon, but Lorwyn and Kamigawa are too complex for new players. Be on the look out for Return to Return to Ravnica: Resurrection of the Eldrazi™ to drop in 2017 though!

>>47974587
The problem with those sets wasn't complexity. Kamigawa's biggest failings were the massive power drop compared to Mirrodin (which was by design, but still made it hated) and the parasitic mechanics, not over-complexity.

Lorwyn's problems were the linear decks it encouraged by having everything be Tribal, the weird block structure, and the fact that said block structure kept Faeries around for like two fucking years

>>47974640

We didn't need a massive power drop after mirrodin, the offending cards were all banned, the same power level should've been where they aimed (considering that mirrodin power level ended up way higher than they aimed)

>>47974640
I was memeing about Kamigawa being complex, but I do believe Rosewater or some other Wizards representative came out and said Lorwyn was a mistake because it was too complex for newer players. Maybe I just imagined it though.

Kamigawa is the most requested plane for a "return to" set last I checked though, so you can't fault the plane itself for the original block being disappointing.

>>47974685
It wasn't really that they dropped the power because they thought Mirrodin was still too strong, they were just afraid they might accidentally pull another Mirrodin anyway.

>>47974890
It's quite amazing that despite the entire set being severely underpowered, they managed to create some of the most broken cards in the game anyway.

>>47974768
You may be thinking of Time Spiral.

Time Spiral was considered a gigantic mistake re: new players, because all the old references flew over their heads and there were a billion fucking keywords. I can't imagine Lorwyn was 'too complex' because pretty much every mechanic in the block was extremely straightforward.

>>47975067
Name five 'broken' cards from Kamigawa. Jitte is very strong, and Top is good, but nowhere near broken. That's one and a half, MAYBE two.

>>47975117

Dude jitte is def broken

Top is also pretty broken, it's a combo piece, it's better card selection than 99% of all card selection cards

Glimpse of nature is borderline broken

Azami is up there, only in commander I suppose

Cards are only broken in a specific context usually anyway

Although jitte is busted always

>>47975117
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
are all EDH all-stars, two of which have been banned at some point

>>47975117
>some of the most broken cards
Not being able to name specifically five doesn't invalidate the point. Neither does the immediate defense of Jitte and Top, two cards which are actually game changing. Jitte being one of the best equipments in the game, and Top being the centerpiece to one of the strongest legacy decks.
As well as those two, Glimpse of Nature, the Elves draw engine of choice.

Honorable mentions include Kiki-Jiki, who isn't insanely broken since it was outdone by Splinter Twin, but still was heavily used for some time anyway as a repeatable value engine and Chord-able. Also Blazing Shoal for Modern, which while it is highly inconstant was one of the few ways to sneak in a win before Turn 4 other than early Storm decks and Amulet Bloom decks.

Who are some good pauper edh commanders ? My store is gonna start hosting events and Im not really to familiar with the format

>>47975396
Reflector Mage is bretty, bretty gud.

>>47975432
I was looking at Sigil captain since I like tokens and he seems busted from what I have heard, other than that imperious perfect also looked fun

>>47975396

Viskopa Guildmage. You don't know true salt until your opponent casts Evincar's Justice with a table full of creatures and you Hallow that shit and activate Guild Mage.

>>47975532
>>47975432
Know any decent sites for lists/primers to get a feel for what the deck should use ? Im not very good at brewing decks

>>47975270
>Cards are only broken in a specific context
If you have to craft a narrative where a card is broken, it isn't broken.

>>47975585

Not really because it's not official, and some people use different rules. We use Uncommon creature and all Commons, some people use an actual legendary, some allow a few uncommons ect.

>>47969788
If C had swung at A to get him out of the game, B would lose all of A's permanents, but would still get an extra turn, and a chance to attack C with Hellkite Tyrant. Since A scooped, C could attack B, and B did not have a chance. A was salty, and scooped to fuck B over.
>>47969960
>Fair Wincon
>It says win the game on it, that card is broken!
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. I bet you think Chance Encounter is broken too.

>>47974768
>Rosewater or some other representitive came out and said Lorwyn was a mistake because it was too complex for new players

I think I know what you're talking about, and it was about Morningtide, not Lorwyn.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/because-salt-makes-mistakes-taste-great-2016-05-09

Scroll down to the bit about "Lorwyn Block".

>>47975739
Perhaps B will learn that depending on other people's cards to win you the game is a bad idea.

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>>47973408
Pic related seems interesting, idk how obscur it is though. Also does Feldon of the Third Path get hated on? He seems easy to abuse the etb or leave-tb effects with for big fat creatures.

>>47975943
B was Daretti

>>47975953
Smart players will hate Feldon out pretty quick, but hes unassuming enough in red to not be considered a threat by less experienced players.

>>47959646
Kalemne makes a good voltron commander. I really like the art too

>>47975627

I don't disagree but that's not really how the term broken is normally used

>>47973121
I get what you're trying to say, but all you're doing is encouraging masturbatory combo decks. A Mike and Trike combo doesn't give a shit whether you scoop or not, it wins. All you're doing is encouraging people to remove their interactive pieces in favor of a game of solitaire. In your example you are sending a message to that player that they should stop playing capsize (since people could just scoop in response once you have infinite mana) and should pick up a combo that can't be interacted with. If that's what you want your meta to look like, then fine scoop, but I personally prefer a meta with a wide variety of archetypes.

I'm all for scooping when you have to leave, want to end a game quicker, or even when one guy has pissed you off, but not when it flat out determines how the game ends like in the hellkite example. Sure, burn a StP on his fatty, boardwipe, and counter his spell before you leave, at least he still has a shot at winning if he plays intelligently.

>>47973123
Just tap your lands in response to the hall of gemstones trigger.

>>47976407
>should pick up a combo that can't be interacted with
Or, you know, stop trying to combo and hit someone

>>47976426
spend all you mana in your upkeep?

>>47976138

Kalemne is amazing for Voltron, but people are too hung up on "MUH EXPERIENCE COUNTERS NEED 6937485829 WORTHLESS FATTY CREATURES SO KALEMNE IS BAD AND WORTHLESS".

New thread
>>47976574

>>47976407

Capsize is still a great card even though it's not foolproof to instantly win with infinite mana

If everybody's running infinite combos then it benefits you to run good instant speed interaction for that any way (you can also try to race with your own combos but that's just a different option)

The number of infinite combos that are stopped by tactical scooping isn't very high anyway so I'm not really concerned about affecting the metagame like that, maybe if you had more examples?

What it really effects is combat damage based wins, like swords and lifelink, but in that case I think those players just have to learn to not leave themselves vulnerable

I'll admit I don't really understand the hell kite example and why it's a problem

The daretti was going to be kingmaker no matter what, I don't see why it's a problem that they chose to scoop, choosing not to scoop would give the game to the hellkite tyrant player

>>47975270
>Glimpse of nature is borderline broken
...Well, I suppose in the context of EDH, it's pretty tame. But Glimpse is pretty easily the most broken card from the set.

>>47976537
It's an omnath deck man, you shouldn't have to. Sure if omnath is removed you lose the mana, but that happens whether you have hall of gemstones or not. But hey, if hall wasn't working for you take it out, I never played OmNom personally.

>>47972160
I like that idea in principle, but that's basically just having both of them in play in a Grimgrin deck.