Warhammer 40,000 general

>ORKZ IZ MADE FER KRUMPIN

>>47900328
Does that mean what I think it means? Because I am down for some ork on ork scissor-fucking.

>>47900328
Yes, they were made to be krump'd.

>>47900288
First for all vehicles are garbage and that's why no one ever used them.

>>47900440
5th for youre just jealous of how amazing Chimeras are.

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>>47900328
>>47900401
>win games as Orks
>tell /tg/
>they call you a lier
Going up against a skyhammer/libarius imperial fists army this weekend, any tips?

>>47900464
Sixth for you're right, I really am.

>>47900440

>First for all vehicles are garbage and that's why no one ever used them.

Speak for yourself.

>>47900489
Stretch your asshole out with a smallish dildo the morning before so it's not so rough. Also, bring plenty of lube.

Newbie so might be a dumb question but whats the cheapest way to build a jump pack HQ? Does the Space Marine Commander box come with a jump pack or do I just build one from the Vanguard box?

>>47900489
>lose games as orks
>tell /tg/
>they call you a cuck or whatever and you just wish 40k wasn't such a shitty game

>>47900489
All Grav? Or can he into magnets?

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>>47900536
I dunno, I beat this guy so many times he's resorting to this.
I'm kinda confident I'm going to win.

>>47900493
WHY ARE CHIMERAS SO GREAT /TG/?
WHY ARE RHINOS SO SHIT IN COMPARISON?

>>47900489
Surround your gubbins in fodder, counter charge and kill.

Good luck boss.

>>47900571
how do you do it, dude?

what's your list look like? what's the plan when you start the game?

>>47900572
Because C.S. Goto.

>>47900570
All I know is this
>One squad will be grav because of the meme
>each devisator squad will have a different loadout
>assault sargents will have power axes
>he will have a vindicator and deimos pattern vindicator

>>47900622
>Boyz out the ass
>Killy shit behind the boyz

He will come to you, feed him boyz then charge, take cover from the vindicator.

>>47900572
rules wise, or fluff wise?
Rules, they have enough gun to be a nice little workhorse for their point, and guard are squishy enough that the benefit from having the extra protection is much more.

Rhinos let marines move 12" and that's all.

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>>47900622
>using grav against Orks
I kek'd, do you spam MANZ against him or something?

A rhino is a poor man's drop pod.

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So I'm building a Tau army, but I don't want to be a colossal faggot. I'd like to center the army around crisis suits and kroot, with plenty of stuff to gimp it sufficiently.

So far I've got:
>6 crisis suits, a commander, 2 broadsides, 1 riptide (won't field unless I need to fill points quick)
>30 kroot, 6 kronor hounds, 2 krootox, 3 knarloc riders
>unit of fire warriors, unit of pathfinders

Any suggestions to keep it fun yet not too weak at 1250?

>>47900693
They also eat up a round of shooting that the Marines would have taken otherwise.

>>47900748
biggest difference between a rhino and a drop pod is that I actually enjoyed building my rhinos. I converted a drop pod to a dreadclaw though...that was fun. and saved me 60 ameribucks from having to buy the forgeworld one.

>>47900593
Mostly by getting lucky I admit.
Warboss on a bike, Not-warboss in mega armour, weirdboy, deff dread, dakka jet and mek gunz.

I tabled him turn 4 last time I tabled his marines, time before that I shot his nids off the time, before that I stomped all over his cult mech, murdered his knight army and my deff dread ate all his thunderwolves for breakfast.

This is the last straw he says, he's going all out with the cheesiest stuff he has, I'm just going to swarm all my good stuff with grotz and boyz for cover and just hold on to my arse.

Mek gunz are safe as they're toughness 7 and armour save nothing so he's going to need lascannons to kill my grots, meganobz in a trukk and my biker boss in a big group of bikes, wish me luck.

>>47900707
He just wants them because he doesn't have any grav and everyone says it's a really good weapon so he's building a dev squad with 4 cannons.

I have one squad of MANZ but they do tend to ruin his day, last game the not-warboss ate two of the vindicators lasers to the face only for a weird-boy to return fire with a killbolt and blow it up.

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>>47900797
>murdered his knight army
H O W
O
W

>>47900797
>Knights army tabled by Orks
>/tg/ still thinks Knights are overpowered
kek

>Mek gunz are safe as they're toughness 7 and armour save nothing
Aren't they 3+?

>>47900858
The guns are but the 10 grots manning them don't have an armour save so you go by the majority.

>>47900797
Doing gods work anon, keep up the green fight

>>47900881
You go by whatever's in front. Only toughness is group majority.

>>47900846
eehhh, I guess it's not the whole truth to call it a 'knight army'.

It was a 1000 point game, my orks vs his grey knights with allied knight.
After a failed charge my tank bustas, deff dread, MANZ and warboss jumped on it all at once. The first squad of grey knights with grandmaster came down and got disintegrated by kustom mega kannons leaving the second squad to fight off over 40 boyz by themselves.

>>47900761
only a few, and an equivalent cost of marines could have taken those shots.
While an equivelent cost of guardsmen could have taken the few higher str shots that that took down the chimera, the guardsmen would have evaporated under a couple of blasts.
AV12 front also means they were likely using at least S6 shots against it. AV11 on the rhino means that a storm bolter can open it up, and a multilaser likely will.

A rhino is basically two marines standing in front of the squad who happen to let the squad move 12", but making it so only 2 of them can fire snap shots.

A chimera is an Ogryn with two big guns standing in front of the guardsmen, who lets them move 12" and still have 6 fire at BS 3.

>>47900936
Where does it say that in the rulebook?

>>47900564
Get the vanguard box, a pack of extra jump packs (from the bits section on the GW site or an ebay guy), a tactical squad, and maybe a command squad or sternguard squad.

All of that are stuff you probably need anyways but this way you can kit out a pretty nice 10 man crew to follow your Chapter Master around.

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Could I get some help with making a Vostroyan regiment? I was thinking about them being sent to garrison a sector filled with rednecks in space who distrust outsiders and who make outsiders "disappear". Thoughts?
>VLADIMIR, IF YOU SEE THAT FARMER'S DAUGHTER ONE MORE TIME I SWEAR ON THE MURDER KUBE OF THE EMPEROR I WILL KILL YOU.
>Ivan, relax. You see, Ivan, when you're not a stupid hick you can't be shot by stupid hick.

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>>47900440
Speak for yourself

>>47900858
The problem is /tg/ underrates ork, not overrates knights.

I know tyranids are shit but i like the models and lore so that's what i'm rolling with for my first army. I haven't played yet but i'm building my army and plan on playing a 2-4 person friendly game at home soon. No clue what i'm up against or what game type we're playing so i'm just trying to be well rounded. What do yall think of this list.

750 Pts Tyranids
HQ
Hive Tyrant (240 Pts) TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Electroshock Grubs, Wings, ,
Tyranid Prime (150 Pts) The Miasma Cannon, Devourers, ,
Troops
Tyranid Warrior Brood (110 Pts)
- Tyranid Warrior (3): Scything Talons(3), Deathspitter(2), Venom Cannon, ,
Tyranid Warrior Brood (100 Pts)
- Tyranid Warrior (3): Scything Talons(3), Devourers(2), Barbed Strangler, ,
Ripper Swarm Brood (45 Pts)
- Ripper Swarm (3): Deep Strike(3), ,
Ripper Swarm Brood (45 Pts)
- Ripper Swarm (3): Deep Strike(3), ,
Fast Attack
Gargoyle Brood (60 Pts)
- Gargoyle Swarm (10): Blinding Venom, Fleshborer

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Discuss.

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>>47900440
Sounds like you're bad at playing IG or you got smashed by Leman Russes.

>>47901076
People actually pay points for the Burning Chariot? It doesn't count if you're just summoning them.

>Vehicles are great, look at all the transports I use!
Saying undercosted transports designed to die so your units won't isn't a great argument for how vehicles aren't in a shitty place right now.

While we are on the subject, a moment of silence for the Monolith.

>>47901163
Whats the hull gun on all the old style Russ anyway?

>>47901158
I'm not a weeb so Idk who or what those cat names belong to.

>>47901165
I've Payed for them twice. In the first game it killed a Russ and a couple of guard squads and in the other it killed a drop-pod two dreadnoughts and some marine squads. Although, I usually just summon them.

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>>47900797
shit, you field a weirdboy? what kind of results does it put up?

>>47901005
It's conspicuously not mentioned on page 36, the page after it mentions majority Toughness. It also mentions each model taking saves in turn (compared to Wounds, which are rolled all at once against a unit).

>>47901342
Weird ones

>>47901200
Lascannon

>>47901163
started IG, and was just not that impressed by their durability.

Though it was a small points game and they seemed like they were just immune to most guns, but then folded as soon as you go the right type of gun at them.

>>47901193
>Vehicles are shit because of that one time 5 years ago when my LR exploded from a laspistol

>>47901342
He's actually pretty good in my manz squad. Kill bolt and power vomit are insanely powerful, warpath never goes amiss and a little bit of psychic defense on my high value squad is worth it if they try to scream my nobz to death.

planning on having an IG + inquisition allies list.
I plan to bring servo skulls to form synergy with a manticore and veteran demo charge templates.

>>47901485
any suggestions?

>>47901415
Pretty much, hide them at the back with camo netting.

>>47901429
vehicles aren't shit, but the new rules seriously cracked down on their survivability, and things were not changed to compensate for this.

So you get shit like predators the tougher way of holding those heavy weapons compared to a devastator squad of similar cost. Land Raiders aren't reliable ways to deliver assault units. Trukks vanish before they can add more than 6 inches of mobility. etc.

vehicles that are good are transports, carry a gun you can't get outside of a vehicle, or something like that. They aren't the tougher way to mount a weapon, but they are costed like they are.

>>47901415
>started IG, and was just not that impressed by their durability.
Well their fluff is that they pretty much just drown their enemies in bodies.

>>47901522
well I wanted to get punisher pask in range to brrrt down things. But poor positioning got me. I didn't realise how easy it was for my opponent to get an angle where the ruins were only covering like 10% of my hull.
The 3+ save would likely have helped a lot.

>>47901415
Leman Russes are really cheap for their durability

in larger lists you can take tons of them

>>47901158
Does that mean Maki moves faster than the others when on the battlefield with Orks?

For the guy who posts the
>Orks are a melee race
>I2
meme, I have a question.
Do you hate Orks or GW's treatment of Orks?
Not starting shit, just curious.

>>47901415
Well, yeah, if someone gets lucky with a gravgun or a melta it'll blow up and be very sad.

The way I use them is setting up my army around them in such a way that they never seem like the most dangerous target -- like having 30 conscripts coming closer to an objective or something.

With IG you have to play all your strengths (cheap bodies, many shots, artillery, orders and tonks) all at once, always, to have a chance of doing something.

>>47901030
Anyone?

>>47901570
durability of the Russ.
I'm running heavy mech guard.
Escalation, working towards punish pask squad +emperor's spear+ emperor's wrath.

>>47901505
Get death cult assassins, they're good.
Make the inquisitor your warlord and put them in a squad.

>>47901544
>the new rules seriously cracked down on their survivability
Did you skip 6E or something? Vehicle survivability is way better than it was.

>>47901583
>grav gun.
so fucking cheesy. Immobilized is damn close to just destroying the tank. Roll one 6 to wound, ruin the vehicle.

Melta's I can deal with because they take positioning. Grav is dumb.

>>47901582
Not him. Originally it was an Aussie Ork player who decided to laugh at himself, but some /v/ermin or other idiot decided to take over.

>>47901604
meant since 5th. They learned a little in 6, not enough.

>>47901625
It is dumb as fuck, but I have managed to beat my drop pod grav spam mate in half our matches by just having a fuckload of dudes stopping him from deep striking too close to the tanks

Although he plays CAD cause he's too lazy to work out the formations

Overall the Leman Russ is kinda weak at the moment, what with the lackluster BS and the ordinance cannons forcing snapshots and especially the huge number of ways to counter heavy armor at the moment.

But I think they work well if you use formations and units to boost their stats.

>>47901076
When and how was this EVER good?
It's weapon is heavy and the flamed doesn't have the Relentless special rule.

>>47901711
>leman russ formation
It would work... if it didn't cost like 800 pts.

In fact the entire IG detachment would be great, if they cut 1 off of every requirement number greater than 1 for the core formations.

>>47901723
Pretty sure the chariot rider counts as stationary even if the chariot moves in 7th ed. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

crew shaken should only reduce you to bs1 so you can still fire blasts/flamers, stunned should be the only one that forces snap shots, y/n

>>47901125
do you know what armies you might be playing against?

>>47901723
Rider counts as stationary mate.

What kind of implants would a "Augmented Troops" Penal Legion have? and who would have it? would every penal guardsmen have a augment?

>>47901802
Well, really it depends.

Could be anything from loyalty protocals Admech style, to being specially roided up.

>>47901802
good representation for that is renegades and heretics, with the heretek magos, as well as enforcers with combat drug Injectors, fnp 6+ for 10 points a squad, and rage on the charge with a toughness test or lose d3 models

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Idiot new player here, making an IG list.
Are veterans or scions a better use of points?

>>47901862
I misread the file name as "Canadian with plasma gun"

>>47901862
depends on what you need done, scions are best used for suicide deep strikes and spot removal, veterans are good for saturating with special weapons and Chimera spam

>>47901741
I sort of agree. For me it feels like a single IG formation should make up the core of your army, with everything else dumped into a CAD.

My 1850 and 2000 point lists right now abide by that philosophy: An emp's fist tank formation, and everything else dumped into a CAD. This works for me because I'm all about the tanks anyways and I still get objective secured on all my troops. I imagine something similar could be done with Valkyries and I know for a fact infantry blobs can do it. But for mechguard I can't think of anything better than the CAD to begin with so your vets and chimeras are sorta SOL.

>>47901862

veterans, always. Unless you're going for a melta suicide squad of 5 dudes deep striking (hopefully) near a tank.

>>47901888
Scions only get 2 special weapons per squad, right?

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I just wanted to mention all guardsmen typically are right handed(hand holding their gun) and all chaos cultist seem to be left handed. Not only does this make modding difficult but also implies that my left handedness is a sign of chaos corruption.

That is all.

>>47901906
yep, but the command squad as part of the Platoon can take 4

>>47901913
>left handedness is a sign of chaos corruption
Obviously it is you Chaos worshiping mutant.

>>47901158
Girls only play Eldar

>>47901906
command squads for scions can take up to four, but I use a vox, a medic pack, a plasma pistol and 2 plasma guns.

I need that invulnerability save

>>47901796
Well that's a relief but it's still got Warpflame and AV 10 right?

>>47901934
well I have cut myself a lot while making my army, does that count as ritual bloodletting?

>>47901977
Khorne cares not from where the blood flows as long as it flows.

>>47901949
what invulnerable save? does the vox give you an invul? or maybe you're thinking of a feel no pain save?

>>47901970
The rider's weapon's and melee attacks have warpflame as well as the chariots hammer of wrath attacks. It is AV10 but it can jink and lets you split wounds between the chariot and rider both of which have an invuln.

>>47901597
Don't own any land raiders to make them survivable. Or any death cult assassin's for that matter.

As I understand the rules. I'd have to bring IG as an allied detachment with only two vets

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>>47902007
yes, feel no pain.

I am retard

>>47902032
*If I wanted to make the inquisitor the warlord.

>>47902042
I kinda hate the scions rules, but I got myself 20 of the old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and 10 Karskin, so I end up using them on every list.

I'm considering buying a Taurox just to use the Respawning scions Start Collecting formation.

>>47901582
Gw treatment. The idea that orkz are slow and as graceful as a brick is funny and fluffy, but when they changed furious charge to make orkz hit after guard and at the same time as tau and necrons shows some major disrespect.

I dont care if im playing a npc race, but at least a melee army options to close the gap better. Tyranids get fleet, i get a couple charge rerolls that only help like a third of time.

And all that is before some of the most overpriced shit in the game. 6 points for a boy, 10 to make em a nob then another 25 to get some ap2. Fucking insane. Its unreal they go and make the shockattack 50 points. Dont get me wrong, its a lot of fun, same with blitza bombas and crashing head first into dreadknights.But it hurts that i have to minmax my armies half the time just so i dont get tabled.

Shit maybe i am just bitter.

>>47902097
You are definetely bitter, but you have reason to.

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I have read practically every goddamn 40k/HH novel there is

and no I'm not some turboautist that thinks I'm better or whatever than anyone because of it, but I really love this setting and the lore behind it

AMA

>>47902131
What armies do you play

>>47902131
Will senpai ever come for me?

>>47902131
I'm a literary snob and I really don't like some of the things I've heard BL has done with the fluff.
Should I read any of it?

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>>47902141
Orkz is my main force (have like 10,000 points or so)

I have a spattering of Deathwatch/Inquisition/Assassins though

>>47902167
I will not pretend any of the series are literally or lore masterpieces

Some of them are surprisingly well written, most are complete action scifi pulp schlock

Gaunt's Ghosts is one of my favorites, although it might never be finished, Abnett created some amazing characters in that series and it's a great ride reading them war across the Sabbat Worlds

>>47902211
god damn autocorrect

literary********

>>47902032
You can bring as many CADs as you want. ADs only exist to get around the 2 Troop tax.

Who is hyped for new FAQs? Next one is getting released today and not that many left anymore!

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Dark Angels allied with Blood Angels. Yay or Nay?

>>47902329
>Dark Angels
Auto-nay

>>47902167
No. They're pretty childish books that you probably won't like if you have more refined tastes.

Is it worth it to spend 100 points on a Quadgun in an 1850 point army that otherwise has no Skyfire? Or should I just swap it in if my opponent has flyers? I don't really like the idea of tailoring my list for each opponent, but I also don't like the idea of getting wrecked.

>>47902403
1000% yes Yes YES

>>47902167
Eisenhorn and Ravenor are worth a read even if you are a snob in my opinion.

>>47902403
Depends on your opponents. Flyers and superheavies are things that I think should be known before list building (outside of tournaments).

Would it be okay to run a machine cult/Iron Warriors/dark mechanicus army by using Chaos Marines w/ Nurgle upgrades? They'd be modeled with metallic and techno bits instead of disease-based stuff. The +1t from Nurgle world represent bionics and such.

>>47902441
For pickup games. At 2000 points it seems like a given and under 1250 I'm not really worried about seeing too many flyers. At 1500 and 1850 I'm not really sure whether it gets included.

>>47902521
I do it, so...

>>47902521
It is CSMs. You could run a bunch of the models using a different codex and the other player would just nod sagely. I had an opponent who used Inquisition to represent Thousand Sons, with squads mixed between power armored acolytes and crusaders to act as rubric marines.

>>47902542
Depends on your meta. If you are giving up something important in your army for some anti-air, I'd say just skip it and ignore the flyer buzzing around the table. Very few flyers are dangerous enough that you have to deal with them.

>>47902553
>>47902577
Cool beans.

>>47902542
>Just man up and play my 5 knights bro
-guy at my flgs

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Is the 40k general a good place for a newbie to get help building an army? I'd like to put together a collection of models where I can pull from them to make a 'take on all comers' well rounded list at 1850, 1500, 1000, 500.

Or is there any resource that I should be looking at for this kind of thing?

>>47902670
1d4chan has tips for each army that you can find by looking up "X tactics" on google.

People here are actually pretty okay for new people IME, it is the WAACs that they dislike.

>>47902670
Sure, what army? I'll see if I can try to help you, mate.

>>47902601
>"Yeah sure!"
>MFW I play list that can pretty easily wreck 2x knights per turn.

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So anyone else read this? This whole series is throwing in some lore significant stuff.


Thing that has me more intrigued than anything is an actual Primarch making a return though, Vulkan shows up and smashes some ork shit up, resisting a gravity beam that was launching island sized rocks

I mean he's obviously going to redissapear when this is said and done, but it seems significant to me that they finally acknowledged a loyalist primarch still being around at all way post Heresy

>>47902708
tell me your secrets

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>>47902699
I'm interested in CSM. I'm also interested in bringing in Chaos Demons as battle brothers and necrons as allies of convenience if it can help build out my army lists.

>>47902741
Its a 50-50 between wraith rapist eldar or some horrendous tau bullshit

>>47902741
Do people honestly have problems with Imperial Knights? Sure they have alot of firepower, but they tend to go down pretty quickly. Their directional Invul save is pretty easy to pass.

>>47902601
I've already accounted for superheavies, MCs, and blobs in my army. I'm not afraid of Knights or Riptides.

>>47902400
>They're pretty childish books
Dude, our whole HOBBY is childish.

>>47902768
CSM are really weak, Chaos Daemons are middle ranked to strong, and Necrons are still fairly strong but have been nerfed constantly since 7E started.

The strongest gods for chaos are Nurgle and Khorne. Khorne gets his own codex, which is middling but better than CSM, while Nurgle gets a set of formations for his daemons which is really awesome and his CSM bikers are hilariously tough (T6 bikers FTW).

For summoning and screamers for daemons there is also tzeentch, but he is the weakest for CSM.

>>47901886
>But for mechguard I can't think of anything better than the CAD to begin with so your vets and chimeras are sorta SOL.
emp's spear. If you don't need to open up a CAD for other slots, it's basically better than taking those units in a CAD.
Emp's Wrath is likely the best formation IG can take.

The none-core formations for that detachment are the good parts. It's the bloated core that's the problem. Emp's fist is okay, if a bit oversized. Emp's shield needs to be trimmed the fucked down to be remotely useable though.

>>47902790
post your list then

>>47900571
You will not. That list is auto pilot levels of retard proof. You will be taking a cock up your asshole. Begin preperations now.

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>>47902810
CSM just weak everywhere, or weak in a way where I can shore up some of it with demons/necrons?

>>47902768
Oh buddy. You're going to have a rough tine if you go for CSM right now. Chaos Daemons are at the top of mid-tier, and Necrons are at the bottom of top-tier/top of mid-tier.

I suggest you stick to one army for now, and go with the one you like the most. Which one would you want to stick with the most?

>>47902878
CSM is weak everywhere. Everything is overcosted, they do not have access to the new SM stuff but their own unique stuff is mostly bad or weak, and all of their best units are available to other chaos factions (except some characters).

I suggest if you like mixing daemons and marines use Khorne Daemonkin, if not them then play Nurgle Chaos Daemons.

Necrons are really allied with for flyers, which is cheesy as fuck. There is no fluff reason for them to ally.

>>47902878
They're weak everywhere, 'shoring up' consists of taking as few models in power armor as possible. (i.e. the top tourny list of CSM is 1 almost-naked sorcerer, 2 min cultist squads, a helblade or two and a brass scorpion with allied chaos daemons for magic BS: which translates out to a single chaos space marine in the nominally chaos space marine army.)

>>47902881
I'm really the most interested in CSM, unfortunately. Maybe I could go Chaos Demons and sprinkle in CSM for flavor every once in a while for fun?

>>47902878
In fact CSMs are so bad that they are almost always better to use as Counts As Imperium. Space Wolf rules for Khorne, Inquisition or Grey Knights for Thousand Sons, SMs with Gravity for Slaneesh, etc.

ok /tg/. Prove you actually play this game. Post pics from your last game, or from the last game you took pics of.

>>47902992
Ha! Jokes on you, I've never played this game!

>>47902992
>taking pictures of your games
do people actually do that just as a thing?

>>47902796
Yes but the guy said he's a literary snob. It's possible he only like well written thought provoking literature but his other hobbies are all more basic.

>>47902989
>>47902937
>>47902927
Alright, so lets quantify how bad CSM are.

CSM is basically strictly worse than some other armies, yes? How much worse. Am I looking at having a -5% (45% to win on average) chance of winning right off the bat due to power balance? Or is it more like -30% (20% chance to win on average) when facing stronger armies?

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>>47902992

>>47903012
>not having physical proof for an online frog sniffing forum that you play a kiddies game for children
wew

>>47902741
Our meta is ultra competetive (we train for ETC) and I play list that could be counted as ultra faggotry.

If I would play "normal" army like CSM I would just skip the game with frull Knight army. They arent fun to play against outside of tournament games.

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>all this talk of how shit CSM are is triggering my PTSD
New CSM codex when
please
i'm dying

>>47903047
>unpainted models
>straight from the dump terrain
>FUCKING MR POTATO HEAD

>>47903045
They're the second worse army in the game.


30k, however, makes the traitor legions pretty strong and balanced, as they use the same books as the loyalists, just with different legion tactics and unique units.

Fluffwise, Word Bearers run with 30k rules makes sense too, considering they've always remained a unified legion.

>>47903084
orks are better than csm.

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>>47903065

>>47903093
CSM are better than Orks.

>>47903093
Cyclopian Cabal would like to have a word with you.

>>47902855
Canoness
5 Battle Sister Squads (2 Melta, 4 MM Immolators, one has extra sisters instead)
3 Exorcists
Coteaz
GK Librarian ML3
GK Terminators (Psycannon, Halberds)
Dreadknight (Psycannon, Greatsword)
ADL (Quadgun)

If I get rid of the Quadgun, I'll replace the Canoness and a Battle Sister Squad with Celestine and a Seraphim Squad (8 bolter, 2 flamer).

>>47903084
I wonder if the 30k v 40k points disadvantage is worse than the overcosted-ness of the current CSM dex.

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>>47903058
I still look through it sometimes.

I wish we never had the dinobots.

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>>47903172
Nope. It's still better than CSM. I'd say about mid-tier, and certain legions gain fearlessness, or close to it.

Plus, a lot of the units are still a lot better. Gal Vorbak, for example, one of the Word Bearers unique units. Far better than Posessed, are they not?

>>47903172
No, all of the traitor Legions and their RoW are better than the CSM codex.

>>47903045
orcs are worse. Nids are also worse if you discount high tyrant spam.

Against even the mid tier armies like IG, Deldar, etc CSM are going to have a pretty hard time.

Against top tier like eldar... I run aspect dar, the non-cheese varient. I have trouble making a list where I don't utterly dominate my CSM playing friend.
I run it melee focus, with two units of banshees, and I still get close to tabling them.

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>>47903084
That doesn't really quantify it for me. I don't know how much worse the worst army is than the best army. A few percentage points? or is the spread so far that it's virtually impossible for some races to beat others.

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>>47902992
i haven't been taking pictures lately but here's a shot from back in march, i went to visit my best friend and he almost tabled me. i believe the score was 11-12, he pulled it out the win at the last second

>>47903432
You'll have a bad time against armies that are mid-tier, and you will almost never come close to winning* against anything better than mid-tier.

*As in, you will never even come close to looking like you could possibly have a chance of even having fun if losing's not your thing.

>>47903427
This.

>>47900440
Subtract remaining hull points from pen results.

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>>47903463
which armies are in which tier, and how disparate are the tiers?

>>47902131
What are your thoughts on alpha legion motives

>>47902810
Tzeentch daemons are definitely the strongest of any of the relevant daemon alignments

Daemons are definitely a top tier codex as well

>>47902878
If you're deadset on taking some actual chaos space marines, consider playing KDK as they have formations that allow you to take khornate marines and bikers while still being very effective. Otherwise daemons can be an effective way to turn a CSM list up in difficulty for your opponent, and currently it's more or less a geometric relation, the more daemons you use, the better your list will be. Until you just end up playing daemons.

>>47902329
Just make sure to only use the blood angels for Melee, your dark angels should be doing all the shooting while the ba rush in

>>47903504
Probably:
Tier 1: Eldar, Space Marines, Tau
Tier 1.5: Necrons, Chaos Space Marines
Tier 2: Space Wolves (and other not-SMs), Khorne Daemonkin, Skitarii+Mechanicum, Imperial Knights, Eldar Corsairs
Tier 3: The rest of Imperium
Tier 4: Nids, Dark Eldar, Chaos, then Orks.

>>47903552
That seems to contradict what everyone else has been saying

>>47903504
Top Tier
>Eldar
>Tau
>Space Marines
>Necrons

Mid-Tier
>Chaos Daemons
>AdMech
>Imperial Guard
>Sisters of Battle
>Dark Eldar

Bottom Tier
>Tyranids
>Chaos Space Marines
>Orks

Tyranids can put up a decent fight against mid tier if they make a good list, or Flyrant spam. They will fail against top tier.

CSM will fail against everything that isn't Orks.

Orks can fail against CSM.

I didn't list the minidexes, or any armies I might've forgotten.

>>47903552
Chaos Daemons was supposed to be tier 1.5, not chaos space marines. Chaos Space Marines are at the bottom before Orks.

>>47903427
Nids arent worse than CSM. I have both, and I can say without a doubt that CSM are worse.

>>47903590
without flyrants?

>>47903563
Most of the minidexes would fall into mid-low tier solo, but fare a bit better when paired with allies (all the inquis codices working together, eldar/deldar + harlies)

>>47903504
Tiers are in no particular order and I probably forgot a few armies. All armies are considered without allies, they change things up a lot

GOD TIER
Eldar

HIGH TIER
C:SM
Tau
Daemons
Necrons
Space Wolves
Khorne Daemonkin (can be in MID or HIGH depending on the meta)

MID TIER
Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Astra Militarum
Militarum Tempestsus
Imperial Knights
Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii

LOW TIER
Tyranids
Orks
Dark Eldar
Chaos Space Marines
Blood Angels

GOD TIER can pretty much play any army and be somewhat successful. HIGH TIER has a few good lists that'll pummel MID TIER and compete with GOD TIER. MID TIER have a few lists that can compete with HIGH/GOD TIER's average lists. LOW TIER has a few lists that can compete with MID TIER's semi-competitive lists and HIGH/GOD TIER's low end lists.

>>47903504
Please never ask this question. It's guaranteed to kick off a shitstorm of multiple arguments, and every self-absorbed retard posting his version of the 'tiers'.

>>47903504
tiers are a touchy subject but here we go. eldar are on top with everything below them, blood angels are the weakest marines, and so on.

>>47903552
daemons > daemonkind >= csm.

>>47903534
>tzeentch
>best warlord traits and makes the 4 prince formation crazy
>expanded psychic powers are amazing
>relic for heralds to get all the tzeentch psychic powers, ignore first perils, get 3++
>burning chariots, exalted flamers and fateweaver

tzeentch is damn good, i wish slaanesh was as strong but oh well

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>>47901582
Hi, I'm the originator of that meme :^)

I love Orks, I'm an Ork player. I've played Orks for 11 years and GW's treatment of Orks makes me laugh.

>Orks are a melee race!
>I2

>daemons have the best match-up against tau and space marines
>arguably one of the best against eldar
>routinely place well/win tournaments

>still get listed as a mid tier army even after receiving nothing but ridiculous benefits

>>47903612
Pretty much this, but BA at low tier? What?

I'd put Admech above scions, they're better in my opinion, and have more variety.

>>47903623
Yeah, I already corrected this above.

KDK can be pretty strong, but basically by running nothing but bikers and hounds. What could be more fun then running an army that has no fluff support at all and involves spamming the two best units again and again?

>>47903612
Eldar have about the same number of super powerful lists as Tau and C:SM.
Those lists are arguably more powerful, C:SM and Tau have close to as much list variety as Eldar in the top competitive play.

>>47903623
Slaanesh formations in the daemonic incursion are actually pretty damn good. The new soulstealer relic also made keepers and daemon princes of slaanesh damn near impossible to kill over time.

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>>47903618
Alright, I wasn't sure if there was a way to establish tiers based off of torunament report statistics.

So, for those helping me, if I go KDK+Chaos Demons, would I be able to build decent lists that hold their own against unknown enemies?

>>47903641
>tiers are in no particular order

I think they're just meant to be in roughly the same vicinity.

>>47903612
SM are in High+, Daemons, KDK, IK, and AdMech are in Mid+, Orks and CSM are in Trash tier.

>>47903599
Why even say 'without flyrants'. Flyrants are part of the army, and theyre incredible on the table. You only need two. I run two Flyrants, two Exocrines, a Tervigon with 30 gants, some gaunts, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes.

I get it, Nids need help. But putting them in the same conversation with CSM and Orks is disingenuous.

>>47901792
Probably necrons and csm/sm of some sort. Not really sure beyond that.

>>47903432
Tiers matter most in tournament play. Sure, orks are unlikely to beat a cheese list with scat bikes, 3 wraithknights, a riptide wing and a grav star, but you can absolutely play fair casual games.

>>47903641
BA are bad because their chapter tactic is weak compared to the SM book options. Their special rules are weaker. Their Scouts are shittier. Their Termis are 25 points more expensive. And they have garbage formations.

>>47903675
>>47903612

Look up the stats. CSM have outperformed Tau in some recent tournaments.

>>47901030
Read "Rebel Winter" and there you go. That's what ya need.

>>47903664
KDK is basically the Khorne part of both CSM and Chaos Daemons in the same codex, so you don't need to ally with anyone.

My suggestion for KDK is basically use various fast, aggressive units such as spawn and hounds to pin the enemy in place. Use bikers or (if you are being nice) raptors to take points and a pair of thirsters to kill major threats.

>>47901158
The fuck is that?

>>47903729
Yeah, I've seen that graph. It's representative of absolutely nothing.

>>47903612

Wait a second, C:SM and Chaos Space Marines are not the same army?

>>47903689
because it's not that nids are better. It's just that you have one crutch unit.

That's not a better codex.

>>47903783
C:SM is Codex: Space Marines.

>>47903733
Oh, that sounds cool. I do like getting up in people's faces in games and being aggressive.

Does KDK not get improved with adding some vanilla chaos demon or CSM stuff?

>>47903794

Welp, thanks for clearing that one senpai.

>>47903509
I buy into the secret loyalists meme

I think Alphas playing the long game

>>47903795
Maybe. The reason to take them would basically be psyker Daemon Princes, so they can make themselves invisible (be'lakor). The KDK faction rules doesn't work with allies though, which is that everytime you lost a character or unit you get a blood tithe point. You can use those to buy buffs or even free bloodthirsters, so allies deprive you of your basic mechanism. Once upon a time you could take CSM drop pods, but the FAQ ruined that.

>>47903833
>it wasn't a meme the whole time
>but then it was
>BUT THEN IT WASN'T

>>47903833
This. Alpha Legion are secret loyalists, Dark Angels are secret traitors.

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>>47902992
1500 ITC tourney.

>>47903794
>not just calling them vanilla like everyone else

>>47903879
I was just clarifying for him mate, it's just what some people use.

>>47900757
Yes, don't use the riptides or the broadsides. At all.

>>47900693
AV12 means you need dedicated AT weapons to penetrate it, while having just enough firepower to to be a credible threat on the table

Friendly reminder that all vehicles are trash that die from one plasmagun shot and you're terrible at the game if you use any at all.

>>47903904
Take them from the Inquisition Codex and you can turn them into S6 heavy bolters/flamers for 5 points.

>>47902841
I agree on the Emp's Shield. When would you EVER need 15 squads of guardsmen outside of apocalypse?

Emp's fist probably would be better if you could take 4 tanks minimum instead of five. But being an Armored player, I'd still want the option to take 3 of the tanks as separate squadrons.

Also, I think its "Emperor's Blade" not "Emperor's Spear" your thinking about. Your talking about the one with objective secured and "clear the area", right?

>>47903907
As a Daemon player, I agree.

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>>47903907
>not using the really fragile chariots for fun lists
>not laughing when hammerheads fail to kill your open topped av 11/11/10 4 hp

it's okay anon, i hear the "no fun allowed" disease is fatal but curable

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>>47903928
> When would you EVER need 15 squads of guardsmen outside of apocalypse?

When roleplaying 15 squads of guardsmen defend hive city from x-threat.

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>>47903840
Alright, so I think I may go for Khorne Demonkin then, instead of my original CSM+Demon possible necron plan.

Cool.

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Hey Ork players, remember Deff Rollas?

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>>47903963
the things I miss more than anything ANYTHING

are my bikes getting 4+ cover saves, and Wazdakka Gutsmek

but deffrollas were a godsend as well

>>47903936
>Not using AV11 2HP Open-Topped Penitent Engines even in your serious lists

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>>47902992

I'm sure some people are getting sick of these, but they haven't complained yet

>>47904011
woah, you're too hardcore for me anon but i do regularly use a burning chariot to great effect. hell it's a cornerstone of my list

>>47903928
>15 squads
infantry squads, with no transports. forcing 5 infantry squads into the platoon is so dumb, people take platoons so they can include heavy weapon squads and special weapons squads, and if they want tons of bodies conscripts.

I have never hear people taking 5 basic infantry squads in a platoon.

>Your talking about the one with objective secured and "clear the area", right?
yep, I new it was Emperor's an some wort of weapon.

The requirements seems pretty close to what to take for troops and HQ, with a hell hound and those don't suck.
You still get Obsec, then get a bonus for clearing out objectives you want to secure.

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>>47903963
>>47903988
I miss the Cybork Body

Though I did win a game once with the new one

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>>47904035

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>>47904054

15k point Apocalypse, Orks vs Steel Legion and Black Templars

>>47903936
>inflict special hammer of wrath with the blades that are BEHIND, the chariot and will never touch the target.
If ever do start my slaanesh army and get one of these, I'm kit bashing it to face the other way. I don't care how hard that would be.

>>47904035
>>47904054
looks awesome, good job anon

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>>47904066

>>47904076
where are all the boyz?

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>>47904092

They flooded in turn 3, but I wasn't being as diligent with my phone at that point

>>47903653
If we're talking about competitive play, Tau consistently under perform. Tau aren't great at playing the objective game and are only really good at killing models.

Rules question about drop pods. What am I supposed to do with the doors? Do I open them once I've landed, do they block movement, if one is of the edge when I land, do I mishap, can I measure embark distance from them? Can I just keep them closed?

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>>47904066
>tfw 15k apoc you could field 2000 boyz easily with nobz and ghazzy leading them into glory

>>47904045
Literal physical pain

Why cant GW leave the little good we have before ripping out the only competitive stuff orks have?

>>47904113
The doors are part of the hull, so all of the above.

>>47904112
What the heck are all of those jumpy suits for then? Moving 6+2d6 inches a turn on a cheap tough platform isn't good enough anymore?

Seriously, taking crisis suits naked is better at melee than some dedicated melee units and cap points like champs.

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>>47904068
you're a madman anon, that kit is an absolute nightmare and you plan to convert it? godspeed. also it's built like that because it's a tractor and i don't mean like how leman russes are in the meme

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>>47904135

I shot 6k points worth of models at him in one shooting phase and he didn't go down

>>47903612

The Empire has quite the number of sub-factions, eh? Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Cult Mechanicus, Blood Axes, Inquisition, Rogue Trades, etc.

And people say that they are not the face of the setting.

>>47903963
>>47903988
>>47904045
>>47904137
Just remember those fucks TRIED to take our looted wagons away too, but there was so much backlash they relented

I was seriously going to drive to the GW headquarters and throw a brick through the window if they did me that final insult

>>47904153
I know it's intended to be like a tractor, but it doesn't have a ride over attack, it has a crash into them attack. So it's becoming combine harvester.

several years from now when I get around to starting third army. But the conversion idea was to build it as is, but leave out the seekers. Then put some spawn pushing those same harnesses, or at least couple of them.

>>47904038
The problem with Emperor's Blade is that the vehicles aren't obsec, which is a big disadvantage over a CAD.

Personally, I just use Emperor's Wrath - I love artillery and making my Manticore the hate machine it truly should be feels fantastic.

>>47900489
Roll a shitload of 5's, works every time.

>>47903907
Can we stop trying to force this ebin maymay? There's nothing wrong with vehicles. Monstrous Creatures are the only unit type that's broken across the board.

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Going up against the dreaded WarConvo. Unfortunately, this opponent just didn't really know his army or how to play it, so I managed to control the game with ease.

>>47904196
MC's aren't broken either, or tyranids would be a top army.

>>47904179
perhaps flipping it around instead? it's an interesting idea, i might steal it and do it when i get around to building a 3rd exalted chariot.

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>>47903963
>>47903988
>>47904045
>>47904137
>>47904169
>Bestselling Tanks/Tank Squadrons
>No Orks
>Tank Killers
>No Orks
>Best we get is a Game Breaking™
bundle that best serves as a fucking joke

How to fix broken Champions of Chaos:

You can +/- the second roll of d66 equal to the killed models original Wounds. So more worthy offering to the dark gods would generate more pleasant and wanted results and gibbing 1W scrubs might turn you into a spawn (but still with less chance than the original).

>>47904210
Tyranids are shit despite their MCs, not because of them.

>>47904243
is there any point to giving imperial guard veterans shotguns or CCW+pistol?

>>47904258
You can field 95% MC's as nids and you still won't be top tier.

>>47904268
You will if those 95% are Flyrants.

>>47904264
....Why are you asking me that? What, does it somehow show that I've been playing guard for last 5 years?

FFS.

Answer is: No no no no. Rule-of-cool is the only reason to ever do it. Otherwise Lasguns are always better.
>But you can charge after firing Shotgu-
Nooooooo. Still bad. You kit your veterans with meltas/plasmas and after firing at something that is target of those weapons, you DONT want to charge it if it still somehow stands.

>>47904291
Which are good because they're flyers rather than the MC status.

>>47904291
95% flyrants would require going Unbound

>>47904268
Make them all jump or flying MCs and see what happens. Seriously, try just using them exactly as is but jump or flying.

The draw back which makes MCs okay is that they are fucking slow. They cannot take transports except in a few very niche examples, and they mostly can't be upgraded to move quickly. Every single MC which is worth taking is either jump or flying (except for Spyders and Carnifexes because they are ludicrously cheap).

Give a C'tan Shard flying and see what happens.

>>47904332
That isn't a problem with MC status then is it?

>>47904147
>taking crisis suits naked is better at melee
They definitely are not

>and cap points like champs.
Kind of.

Don't get me wrong Crisis Suits are awesome and make up a strong backbone for Tau but they are still T4 W2 3+ save models so they fold if they get shot at. Don't take that as me saying they need a buff or something, I'm just pointing out that using their jump move to do anything other than hide out of LoS or get in cover usually results in them getting killed as easily as marines. Which means all game they are hovering around some sort of cover where they can pop in and out to fire. Yeah they're mobile and can cover a lot of ground over the course of the game, but they can't just pop across the battlefield like Eldar and they can't flood the board with cheap vehicles like Space Marines. Those objectives that tell you to grab something on your opponent's side of the board is actually hard for them to do. Tau are good at killing people and holding a side of the board, not scrambling for objectives. Since competitive Tau don't tend to use things like Piranhas/Devilfish due to being all around average (which in competitive 40K means bad), they stick to the game of tabling their opponent or killing enough things to stop them from scoring points. (Please don't read this as me saying Tau aren't very good)

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>>47903957
>>47903795
Okay. So, going back to the original goal here.

I'm new and trying to build a collection of models so I can create a variety army lists at 1850, 1500, 1000 and 500 that can hold its own.

I'll go with Khorne Demonkin. I received the Dark Vengeance box in the mail today, so I have those chaos models and can convert the dark angles to chaos one way or another.

So I think to start out I'll add:

1 unit of Possessed
2 units of Bloodletters

That should give me enough to be swamped in painting and enough for some early games.

Please let me know what you think of this as a starting point.

>>47904310
Fine, you're right, nids are trash. But robot MCs are broken.

>>47904330
percent of models yes. Percent of points, you run as many the 3 hq slot detachments, with the 15pt troop options.

>>47904341
That was my point, yes. If they made a design rule that all MCs are going to move 6 inches a turn then they would be perfectly fine. Of course, then the poor chaos chaps would be fucked.

>>47904310
Flyrants are only good because the Twin Linked Devourer is good. And that gun is only good because Flyrants can move fast enough to make up for its tiny range. If the Flyrant has any other gun it under performs, if any other monstrous creature has Devourers, it can't fire for the first few turns.

>>47904196
>MC's are broken across the board.
Not even all eldar MC's are broken. In fact, none of the eldar MONSTROUS creatures are broken, just the gargantuan.

>>47904373
It's not quite as bad on melee MC's, as they at least have to drop out of swooping to charge.

I only just read the most recent FAQs. Jesus... So, now I'm curious. On a scale from 1 to the Octarius War, how much did the FAQ completely ruin everything and turn your entire codex into a giant clusterfuck? (And, what army do you play?)

Alternatively: On a scale from 1 to Kharn, how mad did the FAQ make you?

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>>47901088
>Guy gets extremely lucky
>Lol orks arent shit, see?

>>47904373
if they costed the 5 MCs that are problems appropraitely then there wouldn't be a problem.

It's pretty hilarious that people keep saying that MC's are the problem, when it's 5 units.
It's the same as saying 'psykic powers are broken', when only a small number of them are broken.

>>47904392
What's in it? I haven't seen it yet.

>>47904361
Eh, they only rule the Riptide ever really cares about is being able to fire two weapons, which it can do anyways because its a Tau suit. The melee stuff is really just a bonus that rarely matters. It having a 2+ save is the thing that makes it unreasonable for most armies. Give it a 3+ instead of a 2+ with no other changes, and I guarantee it would be a fair model now that missiles pose a risk and 16% more wounds get through.

>>47904392
Deldar were completely fucked.
Eldar swooping hawks took a hit
Ork tankbustas lost their ability to realistically deal with AV 14
Dreadnaughts were buffed across most of the older marine dexes

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>>47902992

>>47904202
>>47903864
>Those unpainted models
>Those shitty battlefields

So this is competitive 40k eh

>>47904300
How do I make a good Dark Eldar army?

>>47904415
The only MCs I can think of that shouldn't just be vehicles are Squiggoths and Nids. Oh, and there's a Tau auxiliary MC, right?

>>47904442
Take as little Dark Eldar as possible and load up on Eldar allies

>>47904417
The invun and FnP doesn't help matters either.

>>47904442
>good Dark Eldar army
Define "good".

Generally take a ton of Venoms to deal with things with toughness values, and take haywire scourges to death with anything that has an AV value. Sprinkle in some reavers, and haemonulous covenant to grab objectives and provide some pressure.

>>47904300
hahaha, shit. i just clicked to respond button to bring up the quick reply window and forgot to take out the reference to your post, sorry dudeman.

Same idea for sarges or do they get different considerations because they're sarges?

>>47904453
Daemons, Wraithlord.

>Tau auxillary MC
Kroat rex.

>>47904480
Deldar MCs that are distinctly fleshy.

>>47904441
There's nothing without at least 3 colors in those pics.

Yeah, the terrain was a bit lackluster.

>>47904394
I've realiably won with my boys.

My "trick" is to keep the opponents guessing, never bring the same list twice, use varied units, odd combo's, generally dodging predictable cookie cutter builds.

Orks can't win a mindless head to head "Codex bash" their units just aren't good enough to wing a gane of averages and statistics.

Uduslly works best vs. the *really* bad cases of meta inbreeding.

>>47900757
Use the Recon Drone, deploy pathfinders outflanking first into back corner towards your opponent. Now the rest of your outflankers can choose to show up on our opponents table edge as long as that drone stays within 6 inches of it

>>47904494

Looks like someone sprayed every fucking daemon in that army pink including the bases...

>>47904442
I don't know man, but if you figure it out tell me because I want in. I am currently going Scions + Inquisition to get most of the same stuff but better right now, but sadly they have no cheap assault transports.

>>47904507
probably did use a pink primary as one of the color.

>>47904507
30 of them got a Pink spray prime. The bases will get repainted and flocked at some point, but I might strip them and start from scratch. The primer wasn't a model primer, and it went on kinda thick.

>>47904457
The 5++ isn't all that big of a deal, but I can see where the 3++ can be troublesome. Remember it has to give up it's other nova choices to do that and still has a 1/3 risk of just wounding itself. I think just making it's best save a 3+ would make it less frustrating since it now has a decent chance of losing wound's to large volumes of S6+ shooting (which most armies have nowadays). The FnP is a 25 point upgrade which feels extra annoying since it already has such a good save. If the Riptide has to take more Feel No Pain rolls due to worse saves, the upgrade won't be as swingy and will fall into the more statistical 1/3. 3+ save also means it's afraid of a lot of close combat weapons that actually swing at initiative, meaning it's I2 actually matters.

Remember the model is 180 points with no upgrades, BS3, a fairly average gun, and no fearless. It's Ion Cannon could probably get a price hike as well, but I still think, for it's current base points and the cost of it's upgrades, if it had a 3+ instead of a 2+ I think it'd be fine.

>>47904155
>tfw shooting at Orikanstar

>>47903894
Are Broadsides really that scary on their own? Their 50ppm, are almost immobile, and can be instakilled by tank weaponry.

>>47904577
it would be extremely good, but not 'fuck you and the horse you road in on, this is bullshit' good.

>>47904597
Sheer weight of missiles combined with ablative drones.

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I'm making on OW character and since it's been like 9 months for our group I forgot a few things from character creation and can't find any elaboration in the rulebook. Does anything happen if you get the same skill/talent more then once in character creation? I only know that you get master/talent in RT, but anything in OW?

>>47904416

Changes to allies interactions, transports, a bunch of other shit that I didn't care about because it was for armies with components I don't even have.

>>47904425

That's pretty much what I think too.

>>47904392

I play DE, so basically Octarius/Kharn out of 10.

>tfw "fastest army" is only fast if you don't plan on shooting

th-thanks GW

>>47904442

Everyone just builds variations on the same list (venom spam and haywire scourge etc), which I'm not 100% convinced is actually the best possible list, but eh. Check out TheDarkCity for actual advice.

tl;dr redundancy, screening, and play with as much cover on the board as you possibly can (ideally LOS blocking). carry a mirror so nobody look at your stuff or else it will spontaneously combust

>>47904577
Yeah a nerf to any one of its save would be nice. It's all of them together that make it a pain in the ass.

>>47904645
>If you don't plan on hitting

>>47904645
I don't know why you thought you wouldn't snap shoot after moving 12" though.
The rules were pretty clear in that regard.

The jinking shit did fuck you, and wasn't clear in the rules, but was probably the way it was intended and was just an issue of bad editing at first.

>>47904602
I think most of the fear people have with it is actually markerlights, which is its own can of worms. I run my Tau list without markerlights and the Riptides are extremely powerful, don't get me wrong, but it's mostly because they are nigh invincible, not because they are dishing out pain left and right.

Markerlights need more restrictions/nerfs and/or need to only be on really squishy platforms like Pathfinders; Marker Drones are in my opinion the biggest offender for the codex's problems.

>>47904677
Ignores cover is the only mechanical problem with Markerlights, the rest is just opportunity cost issues.

>>47904675
I've always played moving 12" caused snapshots, that was clear to me and I worked around it. The jinking causing snapshots basically just killed my transports though. Raiders can only carry melee units now (so splinter boats, my favorite thing in the game, is dead), and blasterborn get 1 turn of shooting.

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Totally Noob here.
Well i know some stuff about the lore and i had
a small box of Tyranids when i was 16. (10 years ago) but other then that i never really played 40K.

A question: Next Week, When Paydays are in Germany, I want to buy a "Start Collecting!" Box. Im not really sure what i want but .. Im really going for the look right now because im not sure about the rules.
I Love the Thousand Sons. Sadly there is no real Box for them But , Couldnt i Buy the "Start Collecting! Chaos Space Marines" Box and a "Thousand Sons Upgrade" Box ? Is it neccessary that Every CSM i own got his own set of 2 Thousand Sons themed Shoulders, Helmet ect ? Sorry if my english is shitty and you dont know what i mean, im just a lonely kraut.

>>47904668

That's more accurate though

>>47904675

That's true, and to be honest my group has always played it that way anyway (meaning I just have to be careful with the cover hopping and plan for a big attack a turn ahead), but the jinking shit is pretty much a giant nerf for Nightfighting Jinking Paper Planes Eldar. And getting it all in writing at once sucks.

I should apologize for using /40kg/ to vent, this is probably bordering on shitposting at this point

also basically everything this guy said, including muh splinterboats.

>>47904732
forgot to link
>>47904718
at the end

>>47904723
If you want Thousand Sons, wait a few months. They're getting new kits, and the old upgrade kit is a major PITA. I you really want to do Thousand Sons, just get yourself some Pink Horrors for now.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO5y2O_hv3I

Amazing Gork, How sweet da sound
That saved a grot like me
I was a git, but now I'z proud
Wuz blind but now I see

T'was Nobz that taught me 'eart to fear
And Gork, my fears relieved
How precious did da Boss appear
The hour I first krumped gits

Through many dangers, boils and snares
We 'ave already come
Da boss that brought us safe dis far
And Mork will lead us home

Da Boss has promised good to me,
His might my 'ope secures.
He will cunning and brutal be,
as long as life endures.

When we've been there ten thousand years,
and da Umies are ded..
We've no less days singin' da God's praise,
than when you gitz first begun.

Amazing Gork, How sweet da sound
That saved a grot like me
I was a git, but now I'z proud
Wuz blind but now I see

>>47904633
And also, what happens if you pick an advance which at that point makes you double up on a aptitude?

>>47904756

Not him, but this sounds awesome. Were the "Tzeentch Daemonkin" rumors I saw a few threads back just memery, or is there any evidence of a rules update?

>>47904842
Several fairly reliable rumormongers (Sadpanda, Atia) claim to have seen plastic Rubrics. Likely to hit around October with Wulfen 2.

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>>47904780
you pretty much summed it up

>>47904842
>>47904871
Even if it's not really a Daemonkin release, Horrors are extremely useful to add scoring bodies and Warp Charge.

Is it okay to brush your teeth with a brush previously used to clean models with simplegreen

I only have one

>>47904871
>>47904902

Thanks m8s. That's pretty great to hear, if I can afford it I think I'll be starting a 3rd army now (as long as the plastic Rubrics actually look as good as I am hoping they will)

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>>47902131
How can you love the lore for a setting that doesn't love itself?

>>47904756
>>47904842
>>47904917
Thanks for the Info. I will start with something Else. Maybe i will go Full Vanilla Spess Mareen. Or, on the other hand: Any Recommended "Start Collecting!" packs ?
I cant decide which i would choose anyway. the whole Thousand Sons thing was just a idea i had. I just dont like Necrons, Tau and Eldar. And i kind of Dislike the Tyranid one because there are almost only Flying Bugs in that box.. I miss my scythe wearing thauma..therma ..gants... thingys.

>>47904190
Vehicles aren't Objective secured in a CAD: Just troops. or was that in an FAQ I never saw?

>>47904917
>>47904756
You can get pretty good looking Thousand Sons models from third parties, as well.

Is mono Slaaneshi Daemons doable? What would you guys recommend to start such an army?

>>47904903
Please answer this i dont wanna die

>>47905065
Dedicated transports count as the same role as the unit they were brought for, so you can get ObjSec chimeras in a CAD and not in the emperor's blade.

>>47905090
It's a terrible idea what the hell were you thinking, son?

>>47905090
Check the paint and simple green bottles and see if they're non toxic. It's a stupid idea but it's unlikely to kill you.

>>47905090
Clean it in bleach first

>>47905090
Do it like our Ancestors. Break away a small branch of a tree. Look if its oozing milky fluids. If it isnt, Bite one side of the small stick a few times with your front teeth to loosen up the fibers and use this stick as a brush. put some toothpaste on it and use it.

>>47904966
Most start collecting boxes have decent savings, Space marines are the worst deal moneywise and fairly bland gamewise.

>>47905119
That is super fucking useful and I did not know that. Just found the line in the rulebook that says so. Thanks for drawing attention to it.

>>47904903
Buy a new one, you can get a pack of 4 cheap brushes for next to nothing.

>>47905168
ah okay. thanks for info.
Another Question .. i feel like an idiot bothering you guys while you discuss rules ect.

What about the Colors ? Should i use Citadel? Or is Valejo a good Alternative, Moneywise ? Im a little bit cheap when it comes to stuff like that (and i know i shouldnt be a cheap fuck when it comes to Glue and colors)