Pathfinder General - /pfg/

>>47594027
Yeah, as cool as the accidental exploit was, it went from "this is kinda neat" to "holy shit what" once Strength was added to the mix.

>>47593985
Fluffwise, they're psionic in nature. I'll amend the wording on the taboo a bit when I get the chance.

>>47594333
oops.

>>47593957
Urban Barb 17/Urogue 3 may only get 42 Dex for +16 mod, so only +56 per hit, which does give you a 16 damage per hit deficit. Of course, this is offset by a significantly higher AC/Reflex/Initiative, and +1d6 sneak attack (which admittedly, a high level character will have little to no issue stacking up), plus another 1d6 from a power charrm leaves only a +9 damage per attack difference. And then having those rogue levels means you can dump the remaining extra feats into boosting your sneak attack dice even further up.

>>47594455
Sounds like that's a reason for them to close the loophole for that too.

>>47594498
Loophole?

Can a aegis 3/warder 2 take advaced study at 5th level if they have practiced initiator (warder)?

>>47594604
No, you need 4 levels in a single initiator base class, archetype or PrC to qualify for Advanced Study.

Which is better for me, /pfg/?

I want to be a Dex-Fighter/Illusionist type, two weapon fighting with a Cane Sword and Greater Unarmed Strike. Practiced initiator is disallowed because the GM has declared the half-scaling sufficient. Our level cap is 10, after which we starting getting bonus feats.

My options are:

Eldritch Scoundrel Hidden Blade Rogue 10
Caster Level 10, 4th level spells
Initiator Level 10, 5th level Maneuvers w/ Feats
Sneak Attack Progression (3d6 with a Feat)
Free Weapon Finesse
Rogue Talents
+7 BAB
+3 Base Fortitude
+7 Base Reflex
+3 Base Will

Wizard 4/Warder 2/Bladecaster 4
Caster Level 9 (4th level spells)
Initiator Level 8 (4th level maneuver)
Intelligence to AC
Armiger's Mark
Free Two Weapon Fighting
Free Familiar
Free Arcane School Bonuses (Mage of the Veil)
+8 BAB
+6 Base Fortitude
+2 Base Reflex
+8 Base Will

I am open to any other suggestions you guys might have to help me get my Martial Gish on.

>>47594813
so could I take it if I did aegis 4 / warder 1 with initiator's soul? If so what level maneuvers could I get?

this line is causing the confusion:
>New Aegis Customizations
> The maximum levels of maneuvers and stances gained through aegis customizations is limited by those listed on Table 2-1: Archetype Maneuver Progression, although this restriction does not apply to maneuvers added to his maneuvers known through other methods, such as prestige classes or the Advanced Study feat.

could I grab level 3 maneuvers from the disciplines I chose with initiators soul, even though the customization's would lock me to level 2?

>>47594930
Yes, Adv Study effectively lets you grab maneuvers as if you had full progression.

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I am playing a level 3 Psychic Detective (Investigator who is a 6th level psychic spellcasting class).
My DM let me take Sacred Geometry because he had never heard of it before and it works really well with my character's fluff.
Two questions:
-Which two metamagic feats should I take for [min]maximum usefulness?
-Which 1st level Psychic spells might work well with them?

So far I am thinking Extend + Persistent Spell with Burst of Adrenaline, Sleep, Vanish, and something else as spells known.

Can TWF ever be as good as two handing power attack?

I want to run a modified Hell's Rebels campaign for my players where they are Thrune agents and the secret masterminds behind the rebellion are a mint cartel.
How terrible of an idea is this?

>>47595323
It can when you TWF a two hander and a dragon style unarmed strike.

>>47595323
standard answer is if they have enough on-hit effects like sneak attack or what have you, then yes

>>47595323
Only if you're a Diopsid dual-wielding large longswords with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting.

>>47595323
Yes, but you'll pay more feats for it.

>>47595604
or Stupendous Strength, from our DSP overlords

>>47595609
So no.

>>47595755
Yeah, no.

Something being good is also dependent on how costly (in gold or character resources) it takes to achieve it.

Hey, friend and I are having a discussion. Which is more useless, Prone Shooter or Parting Blast?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/prone-shooter-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/parting-blast
Friend is arguing that Parting Blast picks up a bit of situational usefulness by denying enemy necromancers your corpse. While that point is fair, I don't think it's enough to overcoming needing to take Reverse Toughness to do it.

Opinions of /pfg? Any other candidates for the worst feat in the game?

>>47595991
Just take it as a Gambler.

>>47595604
I wish Paizo would port Dragon Compendium over, it's all *their* stuff after all. It's kind of swingy in 3.5 "style good options and terrible options everywhere" but a lot of it was really great (and the only change from that style in PF is the consistency with which the mundane options are bad and the casters' are good).

Wanted to thank everyone from last thread for the feedback on Steelforge. Had life stuff to take care of, so direct response time is limited.

We are compiling it all and taking a good look at what people mention. More is always welcome

>>47595991
I don't understand prone shooter. The description about stabilizing your weapon. And the whole 'shooter' bit, makes it sounds like it should add to your attack roll.

>>47595991
There's always the feat for taking a standard action to increase your reach until the end of your turn without taking Lunge's penalty.

>>47595991 (me)
>>47596065
I actually found out that the PFSRD version is the errataed version. The original removed the penalty for firing a ranged weapon while prone. Which was a 3.5 mechanic that was removed coming into PF.

Though honestly, the question stands: i a feat that removes a nonexistent penalty better than Parting Blast?

>>47596131
Prone shooter is still better.

Essentially, any feat that assumes all has gone wrong is still worse than a feat that could contribute to things going right.

A prone shooter could save your bacon. Unlikely and would put you in a fair bit of risk to do, but it could. Parting blast takes up a feat for something you will never benefit from.

In fact, it also makes it harder for YOUR cleric to bring you back.

Prone shooter still has benefits, even if it had to be fixed from discussing a penalty that doesn't exist.

>>47596109
Not even DIO can say how useless that is.

>>47596109
>>47596186
>>47595991
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/monkey-lunge-combat
Yeah, this feat is completely useless.

You actually have to find a way to provoke with your move/swift to even get a benefit from it, because it ends at the end of your turn.

>>47596178
Well, now we're talking about the version of Prone Shooter that did literally nothing, not the new version.

>>47596048
Pls more deliciously flavourful descriptions, like those elemental special materials.

>>47595991
There are some options clearly intended for enemy encounters or NPCs because they're useless for PCs, and that's fine. Gotta replace those Skill Focuses with something.

>>47596336
I would be more scared of an enemy with Skill Focus (Craft (underwater basket weaving)) than one with Parting Blast

>>47594275
I don't get it.

>>47596425
It's a Nissan Pathfinder

>>47596579
Forrest is that you

>>47596294
I'm fairly sure even without looking at them, they're holdovers from DrowAnon's Forgeworks.

>>47596655
This is actually correct. Those are only lightly edited from his version. One of the items from the Steelforge I release, the Transference Vellum, also originated with him

>>47596699
The hell does that do --
>Moves enchantments around on the cheap
Huh.

So; about those lawful/chaotic versions?

Question. I'm playing in a home Reign of Winter campaign tomorow night, starting at level 1. I made an android conjuration wizard since they get a lot of really neat bonuses, but I'm wondering if there isn't a better option. Supposedly, anything first-party is allowed.

>>47596749
Law and chaos are much less commonly concrete things in PF, and although DSP has precedent for dealing Axiomatic damage (courtesy of Lords of the Night), they have no analogous "upgraded" version like Sacred or Profane. If I can come up with something appropriate for them, I'll add them to the list.

>>47596865
Take the alternate racial feature that heals you for 2 HP per hit dice the first time each day you go below 50% HP. That gets to be really, really nice as you level up.

>>47594879 (me)

So, anyone have any advice on this decision?

>>47596749
Transference Vellum is missing some important notes about not working on temporary weapons.

A Mind Knight PsyWar can, at level 3 (the first level his Trance kicks in), use Call Weaponry to summon an infinite number of +1 X weapons and then transfer those enchantments onto permanent gear at just the cost of the Transference Vellum, since Call Weaponry explicitly calls real weaponry from across space and time.

At level 4, he can augment the power (thanks to +1 ML) and get +2 X weapons instead.

My last Pathfinder game just got delayed for the rest of the summer, after two failed attempts to get a session going in May and now June.

Console me, /pfg/

>>47597295
but it martial so it okei xD wiserd is real problem nerf wizen now buff pow damage

>>47597321
My current Pathfinder game hasn't been played for two months. Even if people's schedules really do clear up and we play, I've lost all motivation to run it.

>>47596942
What about Systematic and Erratic?

>>47597295
Wow, yeah. Errata when?

>>47597352
Sounds stupid desu

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>>47594275
>>47596425
>>47596579

>>47597343
That's my concern.

I'm just one of the players, the GM has been putting it off, but if we wait too long, he's probably not going to be as interested.

I WAS ONE DAMN SESSION FROM WRAPPING UP MY CHARACTER ARC

>>47597324
>t. Paizuri

>>47597324
Oh shush

>>47597353
I mean, the downside of this is that you have to play a Mind Knight PsyWar. Call Weaponry is cool, but it falls off really quickly - its neat scaling tricks are feat locked, and half of 'em don't even work that well (looking at you, Mind Blade Knight - 'half my Psywar' level means the feat doesn't even do anything until level 10)

I'm still planning to play one in a game, but it's not the most efficient option for regular play. I could see it being a hilarious cohort for a crafter using this scheme to majorly discount early weapons, though.

>>47597295
Not going to lie, that's a major one that I missed. I'll talk to the bosses to see about updating the PDF if possible. If not, then I'll make sure it gets changed for any compiled release which may occur in the future

>>47597543
omg y u nerf marital u caster supermaces

>>47597600
MEMES
EMESM
MESME
ESMEM
SMEME

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>>47597543

Got a question on the Psychic Armory soulknife archetype: Is "Swirling Panoply" supposed to be a 1st level ability? In the playtest it's a blade skill you can take, but in the pdf release it's simply given.

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Sorcerer (blue dragon/orc x-blooded) 1/ Magus 4/ Arcane Trickster 1/ Evangelist (Cayden Cailean) X

Is this going to work out as well as I think it is for burst damage potential? What Magus archetypes should I take (if any)?

>>47597654
Try that Havoc sorcerer thing from MTT, if you can find it.

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>About to start a Curse of the Crimson Throne game
>GM is an AP virgin.
>There is a teen in the group
>One of the player characters is a fighter.
>Express to the other players you are shocked someone is going to play an obsolete class.
>GM ask why is Fighter low tier
>"You know, linear fighter, quadratic wizard"
>GM: "I don't know what are you talking about"

>>47597630
Ah, just got the official word. It's a Bladeskill, there were just layout issues that made it look otherwise. Disregard my earlier answer, I was wrong

>>47597708
>quoting tvtropes
>expecting people to recognize it
S U B H U M A N

>>47596014
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/parting-blast

Is there any action to this? Can you just take one burn whenever however much?

Is this a free burn generator?

>>47597454
Or you just resell the weapons for infinite money..

>>47597716
I didn't know that the source from that expression was tvtropes.

>>47596048
Oh, I couldn't answer (work filters) a while back, but, I gotta say...

For something that's supposed to be AN ARTIFACT, the little orange disintegration orb is bloody WEAK (and kinda short ranged) in its small portable mode. 2d6 disintegration impulses? as an artifact?

That's basically an extra 2 dice of damage for the price of an artifact!!! OUCH!

>>47597780
>extra 2 dice of damage
except not, because it's not on every attack you make!

>>47597737
..Could you have more than one of these prepped at a time and LITERALLY go nova?

>>47597780
It was intended more as a "transport mode", but I can upgrade it to be more of an "option" if people want. Wondering what people feel is appropriate for the 1/turn auto-pew

>>47597856
From an artifact? Empowered disintegrate.

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>tfw university is finished for the year
>the university's society games have wrapped up
>tfw will never play pathfinder again

unless I persuade my mates from home on d&d3.5 to move to pathfinder and I DM even though I've never DM'd before

>>47597856
>>47597867
"Empowered disintegrate" is way too much.

A more reasonable level would be, like, 6d6 or 8d6, which is the same power level as a rocket or cannonball and takes no actions from your character despite attacking every turn.

>>47597813
You......actually I think that would work.... Hey we finally found a use for it! Hrm at 20th level with 15 burn it would do around 150d6+510 damage, not bad.

>>47597901
>21 average damage
>28 average damage
Literally trivial

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>>47597711
And screencapped for future use thanks

>>47597813
>>47597913
Let's see...

The exact wording for the first part is
>You can accept 1 point of burn to prepare a kinetic blast that automatically triggers upon your death.
which would imply that you could. However, the second part says
>If you are killed at any point before your burn is removed, Your body instantly erupts in an explosion that deals an amount of damage equal to that of your simple blast to all creatures in a 5-foot radius.
Which seems to state that, regardless of how much burn you put into it, you can only deal your simple blast in damage one time since it's a single trigger. Obviously that was the intention, but does the RAW reading support the better version?

>>47597934
Good, you capped the right answer and not my oops that I had to delete.

>>47597928
Maybe, but you or that other anon (if you're not the same dude) suggesting "Empowered Disentegrate" is way too much.

If the disintegration beam is dealing about 50 damage per strike, it could be useful... and also make certain character decisions irrelevant. Even artifacts don't make character decisions irrelevant.

>>47597967
Nope. It just says that if you die before you remove the burn, you explode and deal damage equal to a simple blast. Not once per burn, not attack with 1 simple blast, just deal that much damage.

>>47597934
Do you have a big collection of these things somewhere?

>>47597979
dick of many things :^)

>>47597990
Nope, sorry

>>47598004
Well played

>>47597979
If it's around 25-30 DPR but of a total-annihilation damage type, undeterred by any resistances, immunities, reductions or hardness, uncaring whether you're a reflective tarrasque or a "LOL ALL ELEMENTS" demon, it's a handy enough extra boost. We can live with that, especially with the 'and now we make camp' mode.

Alternatively, keep it 2d6 but linked to whenever you hit something?

>>47598039
Disintegrate actually gets reflected by the tarrasque's carapace, m'cuck

>>47597967
The intent here is in no way to have a bigger death, but rather, if there's no action to accepting this burn, we've got an upgraded (hey it's a feat) 'wager' here, that ISN'T A WAGER, and thus lets you go really nuts on a cash-out concentrated mode, as opposed to the standard stake-raiser format.

>>47598067
I'm saying, if the sphere was not.
Currently it's 'empowered disintegrate' does mean it would reflect, and reflect is bad.

>>47598039
its stills bed

>>47598080
Oh, you're attempting to apply it to the not-a-kineticist-just-a-psionic-caster, got it.

hey guys, does the size penalty to AC apply to CMD? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but the argument came up and I could use a rules citation

>>47597867
Remember, if we keep it reasonable it's more likely to see use in a campaign.

Also, Forgelords can make minor artifacts, which is a consideration.

>>47598135
i assure you my bed is still moving

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>>47598141
Kinky...whatcha doing anon?

>>47598140
Reasonable yes, but that's why it does still have to be a bit better than a weak magical item.

If we consider its price to be 50k, for example, since forgelord, then we want to look at what we'd get for that value.

A 22d6 disintegrate (CL11 Level 6 spell) at-will would be 118 800gp, for use activated. An Infinite 'wand'.

The main mode is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than that, BUT, the shoulder alt-form is about equal to a level 1 "continuous" we could say, and slotless, so that would be 6*1*2000*1.5=18k after the "second function" 150% multiplier.

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>>47598140
Sorry, forgelords?

Is that another arcforge thing?

I've always wanted to make artifacts

>>47598247
chasing it please help

>>47598141
FUCKING TRANSMUTERS GET OUT
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What are some of your favorite items? I like the Lyre of Building, just thinking of having it being some secret my character keeps around to only unleash the magic of in dire situations. Would need to get some means to hide its magical properties, but still.

Using that to topple an evil tower, disassembling some shit (as I use the components to make something useful to me), or just digging a tunnel to circumvent the terrible maze because time is of the essence seems like a great use of it. Just don't let it get found out and only whip out the big feature when the world needs it to happen.

The minor protective effect could be passed off as something else with the right characters.

>>47598267
Forgelord is a Prestige Class from Steelforge. Five levels, on level 2-4 you advance the abilities of your base class as well. It basically just gives you additional ways to use magical equipment, and then at level 5 it gives you a free lesser artifact.

>>47598297
My favorite is the Traveler's Any-Tool. Such a useful little thing, and cheap enough for level 2 adventurers to own.

Among magic items, though, the Amazing Tools of Manufacture take the cake. Holy shit man.

>>47598292
>>47598292
help it started chaing me

>>47597971
>>47598140
More PsyArmory questions:
Am I correct in thinking that the damage type (B/S/P) is set per weapon type (light/one/two) although cosmetically I can make them look like any shape weapon? So I can have slashing light weapons, piercing one-handed weapons, and bludgeoning two-handed, but I can't make some light weapons slashing and others piercing, correct?

And this confuses me:
>"When using the psychic strike class
>feature, the psychic armory may charge a number
>of weapons from her panoply of blades of her choice."

Does this mean that regardless of which type of weapon I attack with I can trigger the psychic strike on that attack? Effectively the entire panoply is charged, although I'm still limited to one use per "charge".

Sorry for the questions, I just want to make sure I understand it.

>>47598323
Yeah, top-notch "I want to at least be a bit of a crafter" class that doesn't fucking SINK your ability to do combat (which usually means you're making the rest of the party into absolute monsters)

>>47598323
>Amazing Tools of Manufacture

Huh, if you have this it makes Master Craftsman builds better than crafters with actual caster levels, because the item doesn't work on spellcraft.

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>>47598286
sounds like you're having a bed time, anon

>>47598361
Wrassel it, then mount it to show superiority

>>47598297
Endeca's gravity slimes make me existentially happy in the blighted world of Golarion. I can't wait for 5E to release more warlock familiar options so I can reflavor the inevitable Great Old One ooze into a gravity slime and finally know peace from Buhlman's frantic rustling.

I got the bed, fellow transmuters. There is no need for concern, everything is fine. Send sheets.

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>>47597665
>>47597654

You guys only play pathfinder because the supplements look nice and stat blocks are aesthetically pleasing

>>47598815
And because there is room to really customize characters, rather than choose from about 5 different options for any given class/race in 5e

So we have stats for ships in PF...how would you stat out a spaceship? Where do I go for inspiration?

>>47598864
You mean lots of trap options

>>47595991

Troth of the Forgotten Pharaoh is even worse than Parting Blast, not least because it permanently costs HP.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/troth-of-the-forgotten-pharaoh

>>47598960
Better to have some trap options than no options at all.

>>47599017
Holy shit, is this what you actually believe?

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Do we have an imgur link or download link for the magic tactics toolbox?

>>47598945
The problem's the lack of stardrives, and, for conventional velocities, the utter RIDICULOUS slowness of travel in pathfinder rears its ugly head.

There are NO complete vehicle rules, and NO construction rules beyond "add more armor to your boat"

>>47598945
Wait till Starfinder comes out next year

>>47599060
>I have no counter to your argument, so I'm going to act like having an opinion other than mine is unbelievable.

>>47599080
Having trap options only makes it unfun for players who aren't up to snuff on the mechanics, and make push them out of the game. Nobody wants to be the kung-fu master and then find out the core monk is... a core monk.

Trap options aren't fun, and the only reason they exist is so you can masturbate while saying "At least I wasn't stupid enough to pick that!"

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>>47599080
sorry, but there is in fact such a thing as a stupid opinion

>>47599113
I don't want to stop the two of you from baiting and counterbaiting each other, but trap options exist because the writers are fucking retarded. No one can masturbate to the sadness that is the Swashbuckler.

>>47599017
>>47599080
I think you've got that backwards. Just like no game is better than a bad game, no options are better than options that actively suck or hinder the character. If I'm playing something, I'd like to be useful no matter what choices I made over that character or concept's lifespan.

>>47599080
Saying trap options are better than no options is like saying having broken legs is better than no legs.

No it's not, broken legs actively hurt. They hinder you, AND they're practically as useless as having no legs.

Sure you can fill out a pair of pants, but is that really worth the pain and the effort of hauling them around?

>>47599113
This, unfortunately.
It's FUN when system mastery allows you all sorts of great combos.

It's NOT fun, especially for those not in the know, when system mastery is required to avoid dangerously horrible choices that will bring you well below what the game expects you to be able to do.

It's ESPECIALLY UNFUN when these trap options are things as basic as "the wrong race", "the wrong class", and "the wrong category of weapon"

>>47599146
No, I agree, I don't believe in the Ivory Tower game design article. I think they actually thought those ideas are good. Just because the ideas were thought to be good by the designers still doesn't stop them from being traps, though, it just means they were well intentioned traps.

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>>47599285
I've had some good experiences with well-intentioned traps, though, anon.

>d6 HD
>1/2 BAB
>bad Fort/Ref saves, used to avoid damage
>have to spend money if they need more spells

Are wizards the ultimate trap option, /pfg/?

>>47599198
Broken legs can be healed though. You can't heal having no legs.

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>>47599325
That is not what I meant! Though it's certainly not bad...

>>47598409
The first is correct, and also the case for enchantments; all your lights are one setup, your 1Hs are anther, and your 2Hs are a third.

The second.. I never thought about it, because I traded Psychic Strike out, but it SOUNDS like it's saying they can store one psychic strike charge in each weapon?

>>47597321
I just had a party member quit and one go unreachable while the remaining three don't really care for each other. I don't know if I should cancel it or not.

>ITT my way is the only way to have fun

>>47599335
No, as all of their traps require you to truly be incompetent beyond even - as has been tested - randomly rolling what spells you get from levelling up and never getting others from adventuring or money.

A wizard as a trap requires you to actively use system metaknowledge to "do it wrong" beyond regular incompetence. You have to tank yourself with bad choices, like pretending you didn't know a wizard was a melee expert if he has no spells to that effect.

>>47599505
But if rusty shank daggerville is such a problem, how can wizards be good?

Is new content ever added to the pfsrd? I can't find any log of things being added.

>>47598420
Care to expand on this? Forgelord is planned for Steelforge II, so any feedback there will be rapidly taken into account (artifacts and legendary items also need some focused love)

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>>47599346
The important part is spotting the clues that its a trap option
Pic related

>>47599563
Yes, but there are like... 2 people and a few volunteers that are adding stuff, so it's rather slow.

>>47599563
No, when the internet was first set up it existed exactly as it does now. Was a huge mystery for the military ARPANET guys.

>>47599570
Do you have a playtest?

I've tried focused crafter-caster classes from 3pp, and I would love to take a look and let you know what I've discovered from experience.

>>47599582
How much for 2 grams?

>>47599608
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SrB0WBi4eCsZ990MtH4NlLzFuQzTpYRNuNg2EaK6YnU/edit

>>47599583
I figured. I just wish there was a log so I can see what the newest content is.

>>47599612
huh?

>>47599736
Fake nigga detected

>>47599736
Shit this guy's an undercover guardsman.

>>47599060
>>47599154
A more accurate sentiment is 'even after taking all the trap options out, PF /still/ has vastly more stuff than 5e'

>>47599875
Only a narc calls a guy a narc

>>47599570
Okay. Traditionally, the "crafter" is an extensive chunk of build.

Its value to a party is not to be underestimated, as it turns the rest of the party into easily 1.5x WBL and then some (some real caster crafters can do x3 or more). HOWEVER, the individual character itself can easily become a one-trick pony. Especially if it isn't a wizard.

The Forgelord is a middling BAB class with decent-if-not-amazing saving throws, that offers you crafting without utterly ruining your ability to be a fucking adventurer.

It's a pretty solid way of getting the amount of craftering that the game ACTUALLY expects of us, without shooting ourselves in the foot, but if it's all you take, it doesn't ruin the economy like going all-in in other ways would have.

>>47599889
Good thing I didn't say narc.

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>>47599914
Shit my cover's blown

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>>47599064
Anything in particular you want from it?

>>47599570
Gives 3/5 actual class progression.
The biggest problem with many PRCs (and with nowaday's options the metaforge is one of the bad ones, sorry) is that they fuck your class progression. Your abilities get stunted, and often that's simply not something that can be afforded no matter what you get.

This is doubly true when "what you get" pretends you're low level and starts from the bottom.

Forgelord is short, gives you plenty, but still needs to be thought twice about because while it offers you plenty of nice things (actually the disposable item one feels really redundant with 'wondrous' and 'spell' right around it offering similar things) you'll drop your BAB a bit, saves a bit, class abilities by 2 in exchange for just some small attunement bonuses.

>>47600011
Nope, no clue what's actually in it.

>>47594879
You might want to check out Mesmerist for a dexy illusionist. It has loads of great mindfuck spells, sword cane proficiency, painful stare (you deal a bunch of extra damage once per round), and a lot of really useful tricks.

>>47599887
This is a given though, considering pf came out around the time of 4e

>>47599065
That's a fucking shame

>>47599075
Unfortunately can't wait that long

>>47600119
This might have some ship rules for 3.x

http://www.spelljammer.org/

>>47600119
It fucking is. I'm trying to hound the GM into letting us adopt those star-travel systems that certain critters have, so that at least we can get around.

Even my mech's mostly a flying artillery platform so we can get by on maps not being 120000ft across, and the capital ships can be happily immobile while they dispense... uh...
I may be planning on using martial potion injectors on the 'robot' controlling the main guns to put mid-4-digit holes through space.

Which stat array is good for 20pt Shadow mystery Oracle?

I want to both melee and cast shadow spell...

>>47600180
There's this, but I have no idea if it's good, can't find a clean pdf either: http://paizo.com/products/btpy9jeh?Astounding-Futures-Starships

>>47600180
This is free however http://paizo.com/products/btpy98hd?Between-Chains-and-Starlight-Version-20

>>47600265
huh. had never heard of it before...

>>47600249
Max Charisma
Rest as desired
Done

>>47600319
But then he won't have enough point for CON and STR.

>>47600056
>Charisma casting
>No initiation
>Spontaneous

Class is garbage for what I want to do. The Charisma is wasted on her because she's taken the Mute curse through Oracle VMC, and thus won't be diplomancing any time soon, unless we meet a tribe of deaf folk. As for the rest, that's more Hypnotism and Hallucination focused, whereas what I'm trying to do is "Fucking Magical Holograms Everywhere" trickery.

I put those two options down because they both worked for what I wanted, and I wanted an opinion from /PFG/ between the two, because most of you know what the fuck you're doing. Basically - are Fifth Level Maneuvers and Stance of the Ether Gate with its eventual entry into Dimensional Dervish (coupled with Mirror of the Moon for maximum fuckery) worth sending my saves into the toilet?

Is it also possible to get Dimensional Dervish simply by possessing Maneuvers with the Teleportation Descriptor? The description for Veiled Moon seems to imply it is. If that is the case, when Dimensional Dervishing, will it leave behind Mirror of the Moon images?

Are there any maneuvers that are worth it from iron tortoise, golden lion or scarlet throne when you have access to E.flux and eternal guardian? What about Silver crane?

>>47600379
>spending points on the muscle jew
>not the Dex masterrace

>>47600479
>Not finding a way to get your Int to Damage.

Life... uh... finds a way.

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>>47600579
>Not exclusively targeting saves

>>47600579
>using Int for damage and not SPELLS
cuck

>>47600633
>Not being SAD with Wis.
It's like you want to fail Will saves

>>47600681
>not changing what stats you use for saves
How pathetic non-Cha casters are.

>>47600621
Saving throws scale better than AC, especially touch. As well no save or suck spells become very sparse after about 3rd level spells.

One can easily make a character that is in essentially no danger of failing saves due to the cheap availability of rerolls and bonuses to saves.

That being said high HP is a better defense against going down from damage than AC, that miss effects such as invisibility, blur, mirror image, etc.

>>47600694
Only paladins can do it unless you allow that completely disgusting feat.

>>47600681
Cleric > Prestige Paladin with Serenity > and intuitive attack or guided weapons?

>>47600722
>completely disgusting
>low-Cha noncaster jealousy
Delicious.

>>47600722
Which disgusting feat would that be?

>>47600681
>not going linguistic sshenanigans with orator and esoteric linguistics for 5 skills for 1 rank, and powering your party face social abilities and UMD checks all on your casting stat, gaining a bunch of bonus languages to boot.

>>47600633
>Not using them for BOTH, just in case you're caught in an anti-magic field.

Step it UP, senpai.

This is why Wizard 4/Dervish Defender 2/Bladecaster 9/Wizard 5 is the True font of Arcane Power. Coupled with Practiced Initiator and Magical Knack, and you have a 9th level Maneuver using, 9th level spell casting DEMIGOD. Dual wield FINESSE WEAPON and UNARMED STRIKE for maximum.

>>47600810
>melee
Lmao are you actually trying to fight in MELEE, you cuck? Let me know when you can do Int to damage with ranged weapons.

>>47600781
The one that let's you dodge fort saves.

Poisoned? I jump out of the way of the ability damage!

Though for the record, I think vigilantes get a wis/fort equivalent.

>>47600830
I think this does exist.

I know for sure wis and cha do with gunslinger stuff.

>>47600830
>Not Dimensional Dervishing
>Not getting INT to AC like a Boss
>Not getting Cut From the Air and Deflect Arrows to cuck Ranged Scrubs.

You are truly the niggest.

>>47600781
It gives divine grace to oracles.

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection

Oh it was errata'd

>>47600442
Silver Crane: Absolutely, does loadsa damage vs evil, plus pretty good healing.
Scarlet Throne: Not as flashy as a supernatural discipline but has a lot of very nice stuff if your Sense Motive is high.

Iron Tortoise still has the best counters as well, Eternal Guardian doesn't actually have as many as you'd think.
Golden Lion... depends on what the rest of your party is doing, really. Its range restrictions kind of hurt it, but there's more worth in it if you're a Zealot and can ignore those.

>>47600875
There's two ways to do it. Focused Shot and Kirin Strike.

>>47600897
The errata is shit anyways.

>>47600945
That one probably needed errata. Not to the extent that it got, but it was too powerful.

>>47600442
Silver Crane is always worth it.
Scarlet Throne is good when you have decent Sense Motive for its x2/x3/x4 damage Maneuvers and Scarlet Eyes Perception.
Golden Lion is good for TEAMWORK stuff and buffing your buds.
Can't speak to Iron Tortoise, never played someone who used it.

>>47600987
>Silver Crane is always worth it.
no

>>47600962
my own fix for it is "get half charisma to saving throws". that way for most characters it's only +1 at best, and for charisma focused characters, it still scales up.

>>47601046
Do you at least get rid of the divine caster pre-requisites?

>>47600442
community minded trait + golden lion's area buff = amazing

Golden Lion is otherwise REALLY good for a party of melees, and COMPLETELY FUCKING USELESS if you and/or most of your party are not melee. Golden Lion is melee melee melee melee melee melee melee melee melee.

Silver Crane is great all-around so long as you aren't, like, evil hunting good. Solid damage boosts, fun strikes (and there's some true utility to be found in the exorcism type shots that while not often needed can't really be found elsewhere), Silver Spiral (for certain builds it is THE. AoE maneuver) and motherfucking HEALS. Good utility ranging from detect evil to protection to flight and very high (though vulnerable) DRs, even spell-absorbs at the highest.

>>47601060
kek no

>>47601089
Oh, hey, when they errata'd it they changed the pre-reqs too. Neat, at least those aren't shit anymore.

>>47601041
Cuck.

>>47601060
Why would I? Also, what divine caster prereqs?

It requires Knowledge (religion) not being able to cast divine spells.

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>>47601112
>Cuck

Are there any classes in Pathfinder that will make me feel like a Jojo character?
Preferably something less over than Summoner or Monk.

>>47601146
wizard

>>47600911
>>47600987
>>47601079
Which I.T. counters? I see a lot that could be replicated by E. Flux and E. Guardian that do a similar "make a skill check and negate attack"

Are the Zenith strikes worth taking as a warder? Would it have the high sense motive to reliably pull those off? I worry that other straight damage maneuvers might be more reliable. Though, perseverance and perception seem great.

Not sure on the full party comp as of yet, so I'm probably going to trade out G. Lion for Crane. Seems to have a bit better utility.

>>47601113
Original prereqs were:

>Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings, domains, or mystery class feature.

>>47601165
I'm rolling with the current prereqs, so yeah, no divine casting required.

>>47600945
As far as I know that was the only game balance errata Paizo have ever published that improved Pathfinder.

>>47601146
Vigilante has an archetype that fits decent I think, if memory serves.

Also, there's a familiar archetype that makes it come from your head and be slightly customizable. Like a pseudo eidolon.

Familiar fighter + one of the two unarmed specialists + improved familiar would give you a humanoid, summonable at will, with weird powers, while you yourself are a punchyman.

>>47601215
There have been others. They are few and far between however.

Starship brahs, have a look at Iron Gods

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What's a good site or way to plan out a character? I've normally just done it on paper but there HAS to be a better way!

Hello Everyone! The first play test of The Scholar class is available. Please feel free to view it here:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WKwyK10BvzqVb9M3lIJ0ZyraUNSuEr8y0QK6ML6d-6Y/edit?usp=sharing

Any feedback is appreciated!

>>47601381
Chummer5

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Anyone know of any good Adventure paths/ modules / pre-made campaigns based around an arctic setting?

I found The Northlands Saga but holy shit does that go into excruciating detail of it's setting, as well as being way too far into the Norse mythology.

>>47601391
Description of The Scholar:
The scholar is an intelligence based initiator, a traveling researcher searching for their magnum opus. Their abilities allow them to disect and study enemies, giving their allies buffs against similar creatures. As well they create a mobile facilities for research, giving them bonuses to crafting, profession, and knowledge along with expansions to their facility. These range to everything from a morgue to a teleportation apparatus.

>>47601391
First, don't put a > infront of your links
Second, what the fuck is the scholar and why should we care?
Hype that shit you dumb nerd

>>47601455
Reign of Winter?

>>47601391
Oh dear god, its a knockoff budget Factotum with PoW levels.

That said. some good. some bad. decent and flavorful but not fully fleshed out yet.

>>47601455
Reign of Winter is good if you want a bit of russian folklore and witch stuff in your campaign.

>>47601473
I've talked about it in here before, suppose it was forgotten. I am not the best promoter. For a mechanical description this is the best I have:

The scholar has two main class features, his Harvest Research Material (his recovery mechanic where he may gather material and then expend it for effects) and Research Facility (a mobile fortress where the scholar may perform a variety of tasks). These for in combat and out of combat abilities. At different levels he may choose from a list to improve both of these, Harvest Research Material improving with Anatomical Study and Research Facility improving with Facility Expansions.

Facility expansions vary wildly, but give the Scholar out of combat utility in the form of limited spell like abilities, magic item creation, followers, and other creature comforts. Anatomical analogues include debuffs and status effects the Scholar may spend material on, along with escape features.

As I said I'm bad at promoting.

>>47601500
>Factotum

Well I never realized this class existed.

>>47601455
Reign of Winter

You also get to travel to !NotEarth, I'd advise to stay there and cause havoc for the Soviets and usher in your own Red Revolution

>>47601475
>>47601541
Isn't that the one where you literally kill Rasputin?

>>47601587
>!NotEarth
It's literally Earth. No !Not about it.

>>47601592
Yeah, and it's actually a ton of fun. Great for gun using characters too, since you can pick up a ton of swanky mostly modern firearms while on earth.

>>47600830
It's called Kirin Strike, you twat.

The stamina trick lets you add your Int without spending a swift. And it's 'as long as you have at least 1 stamina', not a cost.

>>47601587
You literally travel to Earth and kill him
It's not even a """"Rasputin"""", you literally kill THE Rasputin, from our history.

>>47601612
Oh, I'm sorry, where are our undead tanks and Rasputins?

>>47601612
Das ist the joke :^)

>>47601587
No it's actually earth.

>>47594275
What sorta Macro's does /pfg/ use for roll20? I'm just about to set some up for my next game and I was wondering if there were any tips or tricks.

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What are your favorite creatures to hunt and fight? Just need a good reference.

>>47601642
Were you there to SEE the undead tanks and Oracular Rasputins?

Is there anything that lets me get style feat chains like the old MoMS monk 2-level dip used to?

>>47601679
Having a DM that lets you use old MoMS.

>>47601660
Who wasn't?

Is there a class that gives me a SINGULAR beefy undead companion in the same way that a druid gets an animal? I really liked the old Death Master class.

>>47601728
Yes, the Undead Lord cleric.

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Oh hi guys, I see you're talking about space travel and the things beyond the stars

>>47601756
Thanks

>>47601697
That's a maybe. As much as I would like it, I'm not sure about convincing him to let me.

>>47601728
A Spherecaster with Conjuration can make their own companion, and I'm fairly sure undead is a thing you can make it.

>>47601541

>Russian folklore

IT'S LITERALLY JUST BABA YAGA, THE MOST ANNOYINGLY OVERUSED FOLK CHARACTER IN RUSSIAN STORIES.

>>47601777
That is very clearly not beyond any star

>>47601814
No, it came back and those astronauts have been sent to retrieve sent
Those poor, poor fools

>>47601807
You don't like nosferatu?

>>47601728
White Necromancer has an archetype for that.

>>47601391
I would definitely avoid having 5 entirely new disciplines for just this single class; it adds unnecessary complication to the mix.

Does anyone think it's kinda silly clerics are the best Necros?

>>47601976
No, not really. They play with the flow of positive and negative energies the most.

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Holy fucking shit, I can just see the fedora tipping

>>47601976
You just need to ask yourself, 'cleric of what?'

A cleric of the god of death or undeath should absolutely be among the best necros.

Their dominion is literally manipulating that force.

>>47601976
Why?

>>47602007
That was literally a year ago, anon.

Where's the surprise?

Both 5 and 4 were meant to appeal to new audiences, whereas Pathfinder is a lot like PM, meant to appeal to players who have been going for a while.

I'm not going to call it 'better' as a result, but that was the ideology.

>>47599537
Because wizards start getting Save or Lose spells at 1st level. Wizards being weak at low levels is a myth.

>>47602142
Actually save or lose is most offensive at early levels. Good save or lose spells are uncommon at higher levels and saving throws scale faster than DCs.

>>47602142
Is there any others besides color spray and sleep?

Would a Summoner//Hunter Gestalt be able to use the animal companion bonuses with their summon?

So /pfg/, I need some help.
I figured you can get 30 ft. blindsight pretty early on (MoMS for 1 level to take Blinded Blade Style at level 1, which then lets you qualify for Improved Blind Fight, which lets you qualify for Blinded Blade Competence, etc.), but I'm trying to find a use for that that makes it worth going for it that early. Maybe dip a level into a caster class to get Light and take Eclipsed Spell to just spam Darkness, but I'm drawing a blank on other more useful stuff. Any ideas?

>>47602142
Yeah, like 3 times a day. Oh no.

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>>47601976
>Best necro
U wot m8, I'll foooking wrek u. Bard's are obviously the best necromancers.

>>47602194
I mean, when the average is 4 encounters a day and you can take out a few critters per encounter that's pretty good.

>>47602194
I mean, that's like 2 people you're going to get, odds are.

>>47602176
Nope, those are two separate class features

>>47602194
6 times per day is the max at level 1 if you really push it.

>>47602176
Like the bonuses you get from leveling up in a class that grants an animal companion? Why would it? They're two different class features.

>>47602208
4 encounters a day?

That kind of metric REALLY depends on your campaign structure. I usually go one encounter a day.

>>47602208
It's actually a lot less strong if enemies actually wake each other up/done stand in small cones. Enemies with a concept of how magic works shoudln't stand in small cones because they now things like color spray exist.

>>47602215
>>47602208
Woooooooooooow. And the barbarian can one-shot infinitely many people per day.

>>47602202
Necromancing has nothing to do with romancing.

>>47602229
The less encounters per day there are the stronger casters become, by a large metric. I mean if you want casters to be even stronger than normal fine.

>>47602229
>>47602217
Well RIP the dragon rider who summons his dragon from another plane.

>>47602229
>I usually go one encounter a day
holy shit you're a fucking cuck

>>47602231
Of course you're still wasting their actions by making them wake each other up. Depending on initiative order it does set it up for the beat sticks to beat things with their sticks.

>>47602233
Yes, that's generally how things go. Wizards cast spells, barbarians hit stuff. They both have a limited amount of times they can do it.

>>47602140
Because it's smugly declaring what I like is superior and intellectually so, what I don't like is retarded and a piece of shit

That poster should be high-fived in the face with a chair, repeatedly

>>47602248
>>47602254
>>47602255
I'm not the GM, guys.

We just usually avoid a lot of conflict until necessary. My teams just don't tend to be CN hurrdurr parties.

>>47602269
>barbarians
>limited
K E K
E K K
K K E

>>47602288
They still run off of hit points, every class is limited in how much they can deal per day.

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>>47602240
It's right there in the name. necROMANCER. I mean bards were supposed to be good at getting boned right?

>>47602288
They do have a limiting resource, rage rounds. A non raging barbarian is just a fast moving NPC warrior at low levels.

>>47602296
>taking damage
>when you one-shot everything
uhuh

>>47602288
How do Barbarians heal?
No really, what's a way to be a cool regenerating savage?

>>47602311
No ranged attack users, no multiple combatants

Oh wait, I'm responding to shit posting. Nevermind, go ahead and carry on.

>>47602296
At 2nd level "hit points" as a limiting daily resource becomes meaningless due to the cheapness of CLW wands.

>>47602311
I feel like this is bait, or a meme or something.

But you know they don't hit everything in one turn, right?

There are other people still alive to hit them?

>>47602330
Unless you're using it during combat, in which case something went horribly wrong, then yes they're still a limiting factor.

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>people posting homebrew
>better slip in some of my trash!

Since I realized last time I put up a gdoc that I didn't enable comments, I did that this time. It's a very small selection of alterations and additions to the Vigilante's Warlock Archetype! Though Mystic Grace is still probably the only good one, maybe the rest of it is at least passable, which would be good enough for me.
Vetting things through /pfg/ before showing it to your GM is probably a stupid idea. Thankfully actually using any of this would be for a 1-on-1 game.

>>47602307
>not buying barbarian chew
You can just buy more rounds.

>>47602320
Off the top of my head, the elemental-blooded races can heal a few HP per day. You can also create a race with fast healing 1 for 6 RP.

>>47602327
Thanks for the (You) bby

>>47602337
>Path of War

>>47602345
Healing during combat is a terrible tactic and should not be used as a concept of "limiting factor" as it is not unique and does not limit daily combats except by death. You have made no actual point in this post.

what's that one feat/class feature that let you use gemstones to cast like in fate/stay night?

>>47602363
>per day
Fuck you I want to be troll-blooded or something. Or even that mediocre but cool "up to 50%" aura that the Dragon Shaman had.

>>47602363
>Path of War

We're discussing early levels and barbarians. PoW isn't helping you much in terms of hitting multiple people.

Oh wait, you're shitposting.

Nevermind.

>>47602389
So buy fast healing for 6 RP. It can stack if you spend 1 more RP each time, 6 gets 1, 13 gets 2, 21 gets 3, and so on.

>>47602363
>You can just buy more rounds.
They done stack. It increases it by 1, meaning 1 additional per rage you enter today. That's not a lot of extra rage. At max it doubles your number of rage round if you enter single rounds of rage during combat and nothing else.

I didn't see them in the trove but does anyone have Kineticists of Porphyra I and II?

>>47602363
>This bitter red chew comes from dried leaves of a stunted bush found in northern climates. It stains the teeth dark crimson but also increases the duration of barbarian rage entered into during the next hour by 1 round.
So... it was written by someone who didn't realize Rage was changed from uses per day into rounds per day, and still does jack shit unless you want to gamble on when a fight is going to end. Okay. Infinite rounds of rage per day, sure.

>>47602402
Natural attacks, then. They aren't too hard to get, you can have like 3 or 4 at chargen. Better?

>>47602404
Nah 1 is fine. Just custom races is pretty hard to get by a DM who's seen the batty rules for it.

>>47602366
So HP being a limiting factor in combat doesn't actually mean that barbarians do have a limit to how much they can contribute? HP is a limiting factor to everyone, nobody can go all day because everyone has resources.

>>47602430
Doesn't give infinite, they wouldn't stack if you took multiple doses. One would need to enter rage, exit, get one extra round, consume another dose, and enter rage again in order to double rage rounds.

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>>47602415
>we are NEVER getting illithids back

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I leave to spend 2 weeks innawoods, and I come back to a general filled with baiting and shitposting.

At least I have a game tomorrow to look forward to. Still, I'm very disappointed in you /pfg/

>>47602447
Some however do not have unique limiting resources. Barbarians do.

Rogues and fighters, for instance, do not at base.

>>47602461
Why, were you expecting things to change?

>>47602466
I was expecting things to stay relatively the same, not degenerate and get worse. At this point, listening to 2hu bitch about Spheres would be a good change of pace

>>47602461
Just be glad you didn't come back on Wednesday when the fucking ERPers were going hog wild.

>>47602461
Why are you fucking baiting and shitposting then?

>>47602573
Anon the only way /pfg/ can move is in a steady death spiral into unimaginable regret and suffering you should know this by now.

>>47602573
Things have always been this way, anon. It's like the tides. The ERP fags and other subhumans flood the place, shitposters take over until the undesirables leave, things subside slowly and stay okay for a while, then "ironic" shitposting begins and intensifies until ERP fags are stupid enough to think they'll be welcome again.

>>47602618
The true paizo way!

>>47602634
Does paizo imitate life or does life simply imitate paizo?

>>47602186

If you're spamming darkness, you could go for Moonlight Stalker.

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>>47602662
Paizo is life and life is shit

>>47602624
>>47602586
Except I wasn't complaining about the ERPfags, and often they're only a slight annoyance, especially compared to the troll chain that just happened just a it ago

I doubt the ERPers and waifufags could have gotten more annoying without forcing themselves to self destruct within a single thread, that's just the way it is. I'm complaining about /pfg/ taking obvious bait from people in the thread baiting about "Barbs OP" like some cancerous growth that spawned from BP's toilet

>>47602624
honestly /pfg/ only seems to contain a majority of non-shit posts when something gets leaked.

>>47602682
When we have something to discuss, yes.

>>47602679
BP?

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>>47602674
Amen

Fuck off you fucks, now let's talk about Paizo's inexplicable lack of starships and space exploration, as current rules

Fucking Starfinder

>>47602692
Buildposter. I wanted to avoid saying his name at it draws his attention

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>>47602707
Buildposter, buildposter, buildposter!

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>>47602355
I'm tired and forgot the link. God damnit.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CLcWSzuy_JWwhWZphIqXlOQt0R6Ysz7ZSEdat05cERc/edit?usp=drive_web

TWICE IN A ROW. God damn.

>>47602768
Had to get some wisdom teeth pulled that really should have come out years ago. Mouth's pretty fucked up right now.

School Savant Arcanist
Should I go for the int/cha build (14 cha) or just focus on intelligence?

File: 1459302752810.gif (379KB, 264x257px) Image search: [Google]

379KB, 264x257px

>>47602871
But at least you have drugs!

>>47602871
Ah, that's rough. Hope you feel better soon.

>>47602872
In my experience Cha's only needed for the shittier exploits, feel free to ignore it in favor of Int.

>>47602872
Solo Int focus, easily.

>>47602905
>>47602912
Thanks

>>47602434
That still only helps you hit one person SUPER-dead, it doesn't let you hit multiple people in a single turn. Which if you're low-level and raging (therefore having lowered AC, when at low levels that's when AC is most important), multiple minions are going to team up and stab you to death.

>>47602940
Not him, but you CAN distribute attacks from a full attack at anyone you can reach.

I mean 'can reach' remains the operative term, however.

>>47602940
>he thinks all the attacks have to be on the same person
>mentions multiple minions being in melee range
TOPPEST of keks

>>47602905
Doesn't Cha fuel their point system? Which in turn is used by Quick Study?

>>47603117
>>47603081
>What is a group of enemies being slightly behind their leader, meaning that you can't get everyone at once
>What is a 5-foot step

>>47603130
5-foot steps are not exclusive to NPCs. If the minions can get to you with 5-foot steps you can get them with 5-foot steps too.

>>47603122
You can literally eat scrolls to restore the points.

>>47603153
But in turn you can use your money for actually cost-effective things instead.

>>47603153
Speaking of, why is there no art of Arcanists eating scrolls for science?

>>47603312
>implying there isn't

>>47603379
Show me.

>>47603386
You were correct in that implication.

>>47603454
Well played.

>>47603312
There isn't but there's a picture of a scroll eater occultist eating a book.

New Thread
>>47603883
>>47603883
>>47603883
>>47603883
>>47603883
>>47603883

>>47603130
You.. ARE aware you can 5-foot step during a full attack, yeah?

>>47598139
Size actually gives a bonus to CMD/CMB.