Warmachine Have General Thread

Let's start the begging for leaks early, does anyone have some circle cards to spare?

>>47557287

I'm trying to, but 4chan bitches that Filedropper urls are spam

>>47557287
http://www.megafileupload.com/b1si/fljkjv.rar
This works I think

>>47557427
Nope can't open file

Any Skorne players around? I'd appreciate some dojo advice for Zaal2, Mordikaar, and Rasheth in MK3. Anyone have any Xekaar ideas?

>>47557287
May as well chime in. Have the cards for the Legion Hellmouth and that other solo been leaked yet?

man I cant fricking wait for mk3 as of right now. Also fuck cryx and especially fuck terminus.

Cant see much changes in new carnivean. What did actually change in it?

>>47557643
-1SPD, Spiny Growth went to SELF

Any one else feel like they're putting in a lot of effort and not getting any where? I'm painting a unit of storm falls, Ossyan and a Vyre jack and it feels like they've been on my desk forever. I put in a couple of hours a day and never seem to finish much.

>>47557819
full production line style?

or a bit here and a bit there?

>>47557819
I only ever paint at my LGS now, so not even half of my army is painted. I paint a model a week.

>>47557819

I'm with you, I started to paint a unit of Bane´s 2 months ago, finished the UA and 2 other guys, the rest are literally just waiting the final details.... but alas, I simply cant get myself to do it!

Plan is to get a Journeyman league up, and I'm planning on Skorne, because I love the models. Also thinking on getting Lich Lord Venethrax for my Cryx list, but with the updated versions of several of the old casters, I'm hoping a rumor will come that shows a new sculpt for my old time fav caster.
Other than that, I think Ill update my CoC list with some HI (Reciprocators seems stupidly hard now!) and a few more jacks (cant ever have enough jacks now it seems!) and the Prime Axiom once it gets out in plastic.
To my Rets I'm torn between a unit of Invictors or a unit of Sentinels, Invictors seems great depending on the caster, but Sentinels just got hit with the bad-ass stamp this ed it seems!
Lastly, Ill expand my pigs with some meat threshers....

.... yea... the banes, thats where I was. Oh fuck it, Ill never get the time to finish anything!

>>47557868
Both? I production lined all the basic shit, now I need to pick out the detail, so painting all the gems, all the metal detail, all the skin across multiple models.

>>47557955
I'm painting this for a journeyman league, but I may switch to Minions, I haven't decided yet. Minions will be easy as fuck to paint though. Going to paint them up to look like 90's godzilla monsters.

>>47557819
yeah i am trying to work up the energy to paint some swordsmen and archers haha

i built a new protector yesterday though

>>47557287
All the leaks have been out for at least 2 weeks. The French side-by-side versions even have some of the brand new units in them (Legion's has the Hellmouth and Swordsman Warlord, but not the new character beast, for example). There's not going to be new circle cards solely because the circle insider just happened.

>>47557669
Is he still even worth taking ever?

>>47558248
He's the only heavy in faction with an ARM buff, both for himself and for your caster.

Does anyone know what the terrain bullshit people are gabbing about is?

>>47558248
He's still Fury 4 with 3 initials and an assault spray that can now be RAT-fixed a little by the Seraph. He will still melt a heavy with fury to spare, and spiny can plink out systems. And he's still even better with Abby2 giving +SPD, +MAT and free charges every turn, and +STR, flight, and 2" melee on feat turn. He's still gross under Incite too. Is the scythean still better? in a lot of ways, probably (just from 2" melee) but not in every single way.

>>47558306

You'll need to be way more specific

>>47558319
Some people are saying that water can be acidic, or forests can be on fire or some shit like that

>>47558395

I haven't heard about that, but I guess it's possible. Siege and Khador's Marauder have rules for destroying structures, so it seems like terrain could be more involved than before.

>>47558306
Hazards are a new keyword we've been seeing in cards, and generally refers to shit that exists on the field that does damage.

Devs have said that Hazard is a keyword that can apply to terrain as well.

>>47558440
What unit has the hazard key word?

>>47558425
Didn't those rules exist before, but just weren't used because they were never worth it? At least siege's feat now just straight up destroys walls. That's useful, though it might be "too much" in some ways.

>>47558455
i don't think it's units, but stuff like Scathers, Kallus's Eruption spell, and Thags' Eruption of Ash effect on Rapture are called "hazards"

>>47558314
okay well thats a pretty fair comparison

anyone put together a MK3 Thags 2 list yet? Thoughts on him?

>>47557451

Do you have proper software for opening .rar files?

>>47558457

Maybe, but Siege and the Marauder are weapon masters vs structures. It's a greater degree of interaction than before.

>>47557669
Still sorta k.
But i heard about some "alpha-hunter" or stuff in other thread. So aside from -1 spd and growth it is unchanged. Okay. Looks like Scythean still our topdog in melee.

>>47558554
it's just hard to imagine that taking your action to shoot a structure will ever be more worthwhile than at least trying to put damage on an enemy model. i'd be happy to be proven wrong in the new ruleset, this is totally based on mk2 play.

>>47558455
It's not units. Stuff like feats or abilities that leave AOEs in play that do damage are keyworded as hazards.

>>47558586
Scythean lost Bloodbath, though it got a bite attack. So it makes one less high POW attack against heavy shit. Picked up Thresher and an additional die against warriors though.

It's much more for killing infantry now.

>>47558586

Alpha Hunter is the Hordes version of Conferred Rage.

>>47558622
conferred rage no longer gives free charges. alpha hunter does. that's the difference.

>>47558616
I doubt the Scythean is going to have trouble killing heavies without the chain attack, especially buffed, but it is more focused on infantry, that's undeniable. they just do different things. absolute statements like "scythean still top dog" totally ignore the context, and the context actually matters.

>>47558601
New steam roller could have buildings you need to destroy/defend. Would make for some interesting challenges beyond holding points and killing people. Make it sort of LoL style where you have to destroy 2 forcefield generator tokens and then their base.

>>47558457
Some people are saying Seige's feat removes the Stormwall's new covering fires, I'm not really sure if that's correct (logically)

>>47558846
The game is already too much like LoL as it is, esp with focus camping going out the window.

>>47558868
that'd be dumb. the covering fires are basically bullet zones shaped like walls. it's like Axis' Razor Wall. it's not literally a wall, but it's shaped like one.

We still have the Trollblood card leak onhand?

File: insider bingo.jpg (53KB, 487x616px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 487x616px

Alright, which of you is responsible for this?

Because it's great.

>>47557471
>Any Skorne players around? I'd appreciate some dojo advice for Zaal2, Mordikaar, and Rasheth in MK3. Anyone have any Xekaar ideas?

What's to dojo? Zaal2 can make armies and use all of his rules, which haven't otherwise changed baring obligatory small nerfs for belonging to the wrong faction.

Mordikaar does the same thing he always did, some weird threat shit nerfed, some weird threat shit added, all praise be to the nerf-bat wielder may his gaze pass us by and land on some other sorry sack of shit.

Rasheth does the same thing he always did, but he can do it to everything. Now shut up about it, before anyone from PP realalizes and nerfs it.

Enjoy Xekaar. Make sure you limit him to half of his rules or he'll suck, you do not want to get up in there and mix it up; hang back as much as you can and cast spells. Mind the Fury 6.

>>47559002
>Not seeing the whole picture as free space

7/10 is the best I can give you.

>>47559176
>Now shut up about it, before anyone from PP realalizes and nerfs it.
yeah who do you think you are, cygnar?

Man, I'm pretty pumped for the new Zerkova. She actually has a worthwhile spell list, on top of getting Grave Door.

>>47559176

Think it's still worth running the mass of Basilisks with Zaal2, or should he take something else?

>>47559281
Yeah, it seems like all of the bad Khador casters are viable now. Looks like we have the most balanced choice of casters.

>>47559311

Nothing wrong with Drake Spam that I can see; it depends on what you plan to drop him against i guess.

>>47559002
Design space should definitely be the free space. Also you are missing "Skornergy is gone" and "Some people don't like options"

>>47559340

You're going to want to fit in an Agonizer though. Maybe even two- and while those come out of the warbeast budget and cost about as much as a Basilisk each, they don't really fit the roll as transfer target, fury generator, or combatant. Lists are going to have to change, then.

>>47559281
what do you want to run with her?

How do you guys pack your carry cases? Do you make 2 lists and just have the models for them or do you pack your entire collection and make lists up on the spot?

>>47559559
I pack my whole collection since I don't have a lot of models. I have a Battlefoam 720 that still has plenty of room for more warjacks and infantry, though I don't know if I'd be able to fit colossals in it.

>>47559536

Not sure yet. A spread of infantry and jacks, of which you could go many different ways. I can't remember if we have a shield guard jack, but if so I'd probably want that in.

wow, someone's running Indictors on the PP forums:

Anston Durst
*Indictor
*Indictor
*Sanctifier
*Reckoner
*Hierophant
Full TFG
Max Choir
2x Vassal
Vassal Mechanik
2x Deliverer Sunbursts
Rupert, Piper of Ord

>>47559837
I can see the idea. You have an immovable wall of stuff that can only be hurt in melee or with magic guns that can somehow break Armor 23. Blessed helps since Durst had no damage buff. Looks ok I guess.

>>47559756
the rager, which is ok except for unstable being kept which was such a fucking stupid decision i can't even

>>47560036
It got changed to interact with Power Up.

And honestly, Unstable is a great rule you don't get to choose when to use.

>>47558425

Structures have always been in the game, but no one uses the rules for them. Structures have a ridiculous amount of armor and hit points, by the time something like a marauder had finished wrecking a building the game would of ended. Let's say he got lucky and some how trashed a building early into the game the was in the middle of the table. Now we have this huge piece of wreckage/rough terrain with no template for it any no way of remembering where it is if we move the building from the table. we could always play as if the building isn't there, but we all know how fucking akward that would be.

I always felt like many of the ideas in warma hordes only work on am extremely large scale. Structures, jack Marshalls, or shitty units like MoW. When only a few units are getting buffs and the other dozen units are left unsupported it becomes a game of raw stats vs raw stats.

>>47560099
yeah, just pretend you're playing skaven and everything is alright <3

>>47558934

Hey look, gunma..... oh.. what a fucking rip-off.
plz tell me this is fan made?

>>47560217
Structures are very likely changing.

Look at Pillar of Salt, for example. Pretty massive change to it's rules.

>>47560301
How are they a rip off?

I mean, it's a three man unit that pumps out six decently accurate shots a turn.

>>47560356
Not him, but I would have preferred a 6 man unit. The death on one reduces their effectiveness by 1/3rd is a bit of a turn off.

>>47560466
I mean, it's Cryx. They're not going to get a six man good ranged unit.

>>47560478
Why? Its not like we have dead eye or snipe.

>>47560544
One of Cryx's major weaknesses has always been their inability to dig real deep with their units.

>>47560301
Pretty sure they're real.
Performance-wise they seem p good tho,lore-wise,they're satyxis gunmages, not groundbreaking but def not bad.

>>47560301
Isn't Cryxes thing in the fluff literally ripping off everything the other nations make? They made jacks by reviving the engineers that made them in the first place

>>47560466
gunslingers should be unjamming raiders from behind, not standing out in front

>>47560301
Have you considered that you can create dirt cheap cloud walls by shooting your own infantry?

>>47558934
2 units of those + Pistol Wraiths to taste + some cannon fodder?
Y/N and if Y under what caster?

>>47557274
Someone please convince me that this is a bad idea and that I don't need to buy a bunch more warjacks:

Helynna
*Silly Willy
*Phoenix OR Hypnos
*Manticore
*Mantcore
*Sphinx
Elara
*Daemon
*Daemon
Arcanist
Arcanist
Arcanist

Seems like it could just yo-yo back and forth firing super boosted shots. The Daemons hit second rank models to pull shit back, slowing infantry down while the gunline pounds shit into oblivion.

>>47560691
You don't have enough focus to support all that. You might to drop a heavy on Helynna and stick in a unit of Sentinels. They're fucking hard to deal with and make a great meat wall

>>47560770
A min unit?

Man, I haven't seen a min unit of anything in ages.

>>47560651
pistol wraiths got a little better by not needing that 3rd shot to apply death chill, but it really depends on the incorporeal mechanics. if nothing else the PWs can go (and lose incorporeal) and then the satyxis can make clouds to protect them.

>>47560951
Yes, take a min unit of single wound infantry with vengeance, that's exactly what your list needs.

Are you retarded?

>>47560651
Arent pistol wraiths 5 points now? Hard pass unless there were changes to incorporeal.

Would much rather have the Bload Squad for general infantry removal and the Gunslingers as a spot removal/sweeper

>>47560982
Pistol wraiths are and always have been a one use deal. With gunslingers, you've got a good chance of at least one model surviving into the next turn, unless the opponent is dead set on removing the unit and ignoring some other threat.

Anyone got a link to the trollblood deck leak?

My LGS is doing half price on the unsold old Mk2 Warmachine battle boxes. Anyone have any opinions on which ones might be a good pick up or might go well with their new Mk3 counterpart?

thanks

>>47561090
then they're not worth the points to kill 2 infantry or make 1 jack shake something.

>>47561271
Cryx and Khador at the least

Legion is ok, but any Legion player worth his salt ends up with 15 shredders sooner or later.

>>47561375
I was looking at the Khador box and saw people getting super salty about the Destroyer. Is it worth it just to get pSorch and a Juggernaut for half off a full box or is the Destroyer whining unfounded?

>>47560301
Well, to be fair, gunmages were never unique to Cygnar. And Stayxis are kinda, technically human, so gunmages aren't really all that unbelievable.

>>47561412
what salt did you see? RAT 4 is bad but it can always boost, the field gun has auto-KD to facilitate the shot, it can go on a MOW Kovnik for assault, etc. it's certainly not the best jack but it has some uses

>>47561271
Cryx is worth it for arc nodes and denny. If you get one be sure to magnetize the slayer's arms and head.

>>47561019
They where 3 before so how is a PC reduction a hard pass?

Pistol Wraiths changed to effectivly "Chain Attack cause stationary". Only need two attacks to hit a target and it becomes stationary vs the old way. Yes, shake off available now but one less attack needed and stationary reduces defense.

I think Pistol Wraiths have a few things they can do. One unique new thing is to acquire 2 souls and horde them. Only takes 1 turn of shooting grunts to get enough souls or soul collector passing some over. Then you stay incorpreal and zone the enemies caster with the threat of two boosted RAT 7s causing stationary and nigh guaranteeing an assassination from whatever the follow up is.

>>47561271
I think getting both is a good option given whats in them. You wind up with two slayers, a Reaper, and a small horde of arc nodes. If you're starting from no collection that's a pretty decent basic battlegroup. Magnetize the bone jacks and get some more heads and they can be any type of arc node.

>>47561762
stationary is immediately shaken by anything you'd care about making stationary

there's a lot more magical weapons in mark 3

>>47561806
It also reduces def for your active turn...

>>47561806
Going down to only needing 2 shots to trigger from 3 is a big deal.

>stationary is immediately shaken by anything you'd care about making stationary

Which still leaves you with the def reduction portion. Shakes are not free either so that can be relevant sometimes.

I also feel there are some solos beefy enough to survive two pow 10s that suddenly become roadblocks if made stationary.

It's not like it's the only thing a Pistol Wraith can do either. He's a good shooting solo in general terms. The benefit of his chain attack was altered but it's easier to trigger.

>>47561806
>there's a lot more magical weapons in mark 3

Also I'm unsure if this is true. I think it may just feel that way given we are looking at all the cards at once. Most of the magic damage types I've seen are on magical weapons in MK2. Not really sure what gained it.

Granted most casters have an attack spell. Incorporeal is hardly perfect but it's hardly nothing either. I'd like to assume a player is competent enough to assess their opponents list composition to see if they need to abandon a tactic.

>>47561900


>shakes are not free

Also keep in mind that while shaking a Jack comes from the caster, shaking a beast places the fury on the beast essentially putting it down -1 fury which can make all the difference.

>>47561762
I don't care for offensive solos. And the wraith is overcosted imo. It should cost 2 now (mkii) so 4 would have been prefered, but I still probably wouldn't take it honestly.

Its still a ~36% chance to make a warpwolf stalker stationary.

are the stormthrowers anywhere in the RPG? Like maybe one of the NQ magazines?

>>47561956
there's a lot more things being granted or just gaining magic weapons

even khador

>>47561856
generally against a thing you wouldn't worry about hitting anyway.

Can I get some feedback on an all comers list?

Kaelyssa
-Hydra
-Hydra

Sentinels+UA
MHSF+UA
Stormfall archers

Narn
2 MHA
1 Arcanist
PEiryss

Looks to abuse the shit out of Rebuke to hit and run with 2 things a turn while Kaelyssa and the Hydras offer range assassination for 21" and 18" away respectively.

Sentinels make a solid anchor unit.

MHSF and Stormfall look good for harassing units. MHSF can use feat to get at things I can't abuse rebuke on.

Solos are all good for Rebuke targets.

>>47562292
It's still a notable damage increase against DEF 12 for MAT 6 models.

>>47558314

A good thing to note is that the Carnivian only costs 1 point more than a Scythean now. Makes them a lot more comparable on the points per output scale.

Before the Scythean was 2 points cheaper (which would be 4 points in the new system) and had a chain attack.

>>47562426

A R C
R
C

N O D E
O
D
E

File: Circle MKII Cover.jpg (499KB, 750x963px) Image search: [Google]

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>>47557274
So, with Mk.3 coming out, I was wondering if no would be a good time to start a Circle Orboro's army. A whole faction filled with druids whose aim is to fuck every ones shit up while preserving the balance of the world sounds cool, especially when its done with Golems and Werewolfs. Should I just wait for the new release box? Also, what are the circles views on the Retribution of Scyrah, Cyrx and Everblight? I ask because they havent really gave any indications of how the dragons fit between Menoth and the Wurm

File: wraith.png (592KB, 412x842px) Image search: [Google]

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>>47560982
>>47561090
for reference

>>47562534
That is a good point, and people often said how the Carn would be taken more in mk2 if it were 10 instead of 11. the chain attack is sort of a wash; thresher is much better for dealing with infantry, and with good positioning for the bite you won't miss the 3rd free scythe hit on a heavy.

>>47562022
A solo that can kill two things a turn reliably, has access to boosts, and can potentially cause a major status debuff? And your grumbling that it didn't go down an additional 0.5 PC?

I mean if you don't like offensive solos then sure. It's not a model for you.

>Its still a ~36% chance to make a warpwolf stalker stationary.

Need to roll a 7 on 2d6 at least twice is what your saying? So 58.33% * 58.33%? That's closer to 34% chance then 36% by my math.

It's also missing two key components. The first is that the old chain attack was 58.33% * 58.33% * 58.33% = 19.85%. So we've gained about 14% chance of hitting with MK3 version over the MK2 version. At least in the instance of needing a 7.

The other major component is that pistol wraiths can boost attack rolls. (also they can sac movement but I think we'll agree to ignore that due to rng 10).
If we only boost one shot then 90.74% * 58.33% = 52.93% a gain of nearly 20% chance.
If we boost both shots then 90.74% * 90.74% = 82.33%.

Mind I'm just doing a preliminary look at the probability. Borrowed numbers from tables on the dark fortress.

Anyway, it's clearly a huge improvement over Mk2 in terms of chance and every single soul you spend raises the chance further by a significant amount. It's also more resource efficient as you only need 2 souls to reach max to hit efficiency. So clearly we can't ignore souls even if they are not guaranteed to be on the Pistol Wraith.

Another thing to remember is that if the Pistol Wraith buggers it up and you where triggering stationary on a Warp Wolf Stalker in order to get auto-hit melee attacks from a Slayer...you can still make those attacks.

I think the Pistol wraith is appropriately pointed for it's capabilities. Whether you need them in your list is up to you.

>>47562638


If you can get the circle half of the two player battle box, everything in it will be solid in Mk3

Hilariously enough the argus used to be a complete pass in Mk2 but is completely viable in Mk3 so it's actually a BETTER purchase now than it was before.

That being said the new BB is a bit more optimized (having primal in a BB is a big deal) and the new caster looks really fun.

>>47562638
The answer has several points.
Yes, new edition is good opportunity to start it will be easier to catch up because everyone is learning rules anew essentially.
However, it is uncertain if starter boxes will actually be available right off the bat, there have been massive preorders and distributor is already not sure if they can cover everything, there might be couple weeks of supply shortage. (but if your area already has a working community, maybe somebody can borrow you the minis for couple test games)
As for picking Circle, we can't really judge relative power of faction before complete new rules come out but hopefully it will all be more or less equal.
As for the lore side of the things, I'll let somebody else take that.

>>47562615
Kaelyssa has no offensive spells. Is she going to need one for rebuke?

>>47562641
Huh thought the guns where pow 10s. Boosted pow 12s kill casters as the saying goes.

>>47562195
>citation needed
In all seriousness. Got any examples? I'll be taking a good hard look over things myself based on these comments. Still not convinced that there's been a flood of it.

Look at A+H. They didn't stop passing out magic weapons. However, they can't give +2 damage outside mercs so are they really going to be as common as in MK2? Are they a thing that will be in every list? If not doesn't that suggest a reduction in passing out magic weapons?

>>47562710


Rebuke is an awesome fucking spell and the chimera is cheap now.

So yes.

>>47562732
And what gets cut?

It's eiryss or narn basically.

>>47562647

Thresher is better vs. troops but the Chain Attack was better dmg output vs. other heavies.

I do like that the changes do seem to give a place for both beasts. Before, the Scythean was just better at everything. Now the Carnivean is kind of tanky (Arm 20 with Spiny) and has a high dmg output. The Scythean still has decent dmg output but he has better threat range and anti-infantry but is more fragile for about the same cost.

I still think the Ravagore wins overall though. Making him AOE4 but letting him keep scather is kind of nuts.

Kaelyssa doesn't have Rebuke, she has REFUGE.

Big, important difference.

>>47562753


Narn

>>47562638
the furries are a decent faction i'll give em that
>inb4 lightning strike rng self tho kek

>>47562716
a lot of khador solos gained magic weapons

the kovanics

>>47562780
>>47562780

Oops, scratch that chimera then.

>>47562769
i agree that thresher and CA are better vs different things. my point is all the people screaming that the scythean now sucked vs heavies bc he lost his CA are just idiots. even before they spoiled the bite attack. under buffs the CA was certainly nice but not required to trade easily. you're right about the ravagore though, he came through like a champ. animus is pretty slick too even if we did lose continuous fire. we're supposedly getting something that has it as a non-self animus (I'm betting the new character heavy)

>>47562671
i think the grumbling is you're taking a solo that can kill 2 things reliably or make 1 thing have to shake stationary, which then promptly dies. we're not talking one model out of a unit of 10 that costs 1.5-2 points. we're talking about one 5-point model. killing 2 1-2 point models and then losing the 5-pointer that did it is a shitty piece trade. an the prevalence of magic weapons means the things he kills won't be critical support because there's no way your opponent will let you near them.

>>47561413

I'd really love to see more info on other groups with Gunmages. I mean, people with the talent need to be born in Khador and all over the world. Heck, nothing even says it's purely a human thing, in the RPG elves can be Gunmages too.

>>47562891


Lael just got their gun mages in the new merc deck.

>>47562920

Didn't Lael always have gunmages? What with being able to take a unit of them?

>>47562795
Okay Khador solos and Kovanics. Cross checking.

Kept - had magical weapon in Mk2.
Malakov
Koldun Lord
Fenris

Errr...that's it for solos that have the magic damage icon on weapons. I searched solo in the khador card deck. So apparently no Khador solos gained it.

Well okay lets check Kovniks...nope none of them have it.

Okay I'll cross check greylords for all the units. Which I think all have magic weapons in MK2 and 3. (not that it matters they all cast spells too which are more relevant for hunting incorporeal solos)

Ternion had and have.
Escort had and has.
Koldun lord we already checked.
Outriders had and have.

Okay when it comes to Khador you appear to be dead wrong. So can you substantiate your claim?

>>47562929
in prior eds, they took Cygnar ATGMs with a different name and paint scheme but the same rules. now they have their own legit different order, with different crunch.

i want to know if any of them are working for khador now, considering how many Llaelese actually like that khador toppled their corrupt oligarchy.

>>47562966

I'd rather like to see a Khadoran or Protectorate take on a gunmage order. The latter isn't likely to happen due to 'Mage' unless the Paladins are hiding a secret pistol range though.

>>47562877
People always say this. It's not like walking to within 10" to shoot something means you automatically die next turn. What if you have a defensive feat up? What if their lines are jammed to shit with Raiders? What if there are simply higher priorities? Your Pistol Wraith could be in cover or concealment. If you can't keep a Pistol Wraith alive for more than turn of shots, the problem exists between table and chair.

>>47563022
>whynotboth.jpg
khadors would also be greylords in all likelihood, meaning lots of synergies.

>>47562877
>an the prevalence of magic weapons
What prevalence? This feels like an "everyone thinks but nobody has checked" thing to me. The addition of stealth hate is pretty clear in contrast.

>one 5-point model. killing 2 1-2 point models and then losing the 5-pointer

That can vary. x2 RAT 7 Pow 12s with magic damage isn't too shabby. Other solos are in it's point range. If it pops a grunt worth 0.5-1 PC and then uses the soul to boost to hit vs a 4 PC solo then it's made it's points.

I mean I get why people dislike it. Well, people with sense look at it as a bit bland on paper and don't analyze it further. Some cryx players are senseless and are still crying that everything is terrible. Though I think I'm arguing with the first group this time.

>>47562784
I still need to find 2 points. A Chimera is 8 and I see refuges range is show so I need it, but it requires I cut Narn and a MHA to get it, at which point I lose 2 of my 4 targets for refuge.

>>47563022
And Circle needs a gun mage druid.
Kill the wabbit kill the wabbit...

>>47562929

The new ones are unique. Before, Gunmages basically represented Laelese gunmages but the news one just kind or replace them. They are also pretty baller.

Also, I remember there being a Keel Bailoch short story in one of the Skull Island anthology books (yes I read the fluff) where there was a Khadoran sniper mage Kell had to kill.

He wasn't really a "gun mage" though.

>>47563022

Protectorate doesn't really use many "guns."

I would love to see a Deliverer warcaster though. He could be like Siege except his rockets could have gunmage style effects.

>>47563078

The circle already has it's take on them with the Tharn Bloodweavers. In the RPG they are literally 'Melee gunmages'.

>>47563036
Heh right? Thanks for making that point.

Def 14 Arm 12 5 wounds. In MK3 terms that's really not too shabby. Lots of things went down in defense in MK3. Def 14 is fairly high now.

Anyone have any ideas of building for Gaspy3 these days? He certainly went from a quality infantry caster to a jack caster in a different vein than Venny. And Voci got gud

>>47563117

What IS it with the Protectorate not using guns?

Magic, ok, I can get that.

Guns? That one is weirder when most of the people there are only a generation at most removed from 'Guns: The Faction'

>>47557471
>Anyone have any Xekaar ideas?
Yeah just bring Gladiators and Swordsmen/Nihilators, then proceed to stomp all over your opponent with Mortality and that FEAT.

>>47563170
probably part due to lacking the easy natural resources and manufacturing capabilities needed for mass firearm production, along with the desert being harder on guns than the other western immoren environs. also they have knights with blessed crossbows, who fucking needs muzzle-loaders

>>47563170
Lack of industrialized areas means they can't easily "mass produce" the mechanical components, ammunition, or powder? So they mass produce what can be made by unskilled labor in what is effectively a sweatshop.

The powder formula is different then real world. It's supposed to be a two part powder and not black powder. So it may be more complicated to make.

>>47557471
>Xekaar
Bring bronzebacks and cast psychosurgery every turn
Take Marketh and toss out mortalities

>>47558710
lets say you're gunna pick up a char beast and either a carni or scythean.

which ones balance the best together
Proteus w/ Carni or Scythean

Typhon w/ Carni or Scythean

>>47563309
the #1 question involved is "which warlock?"

that said...i'm just not seeing why people are all about proteus now. i don't like the animus much, because i don't think he'll survive being b2b with things. anything he drags in will be wailing on him, and you just spent 2 fury not to buy attacks...for what? i'm not sure what i'm not seeing that everyone loves.

>>47563348

Why's he by himself? Why's he not dragging in, debuffing, and softening up that target that thought it was out of range?

>>47563303
If you want to spam Psycho Surgery, why not bring Sentries? They'll pack plenty of punch with a Mortality target, and the healing will be more relevant on a higher armour beast. The Bronzeback is looking pretty meh in Mk3 to be honest. Animus is nerfed, damage output is nerfed, titan leadership is nerfed. I can't think why I wouldn't just bring another Gladiator.

>>47563383
i'm not sure i would pair with him in that case. i guess the best case scenario is like...boosting to hit and drag in something annoying, like a stalker, and then animus, and then buying attacks. or buying multiple drags on something like MOW and then having a scythean do an angled charge and thresher.

so on the earlier question...when I think typhon, i think Vayl1, in which case i think Scythean, but that might be mk2 talking. under incite, Typhon is going to threaten basically anything even more now. i'm inclined to go with scythean just for the increased reach then, but incite benefits a carni a lot too. so why not both?

i would also think abby2 with typhon, and imo she always wants a carn because she makes them bonkers on feat turn.

help i want to drop like 1000$ on khador why did they have to get so good D:

>>47563463
There is always a place for one more son of the motherland

With the way MKIII is looking, would there be a way to base around Hex Hunters and the Blackfrost Shard? Bethayne's feat changed, so the easy answer is gone.

>>47563423
Bronzeback with two units of Beast Handlers is the best Fury management in the game. You move the BB into position, Enrage with one unit, have your Titans go apeshit, then condition with the second unit. That's two Fury removed off every Titan within 6" after fully forcing them.

>>47563498
so i play other factions and wnat to at least start a small khador force so where should i begin purchase wise

>>47563142
I dont like him at all. The attraction, for me, in mkii was that he buffed your own guys wich is better versus spellhate. Calamity is a debuff and an upkeep so it reduces his effectivness by a lot.

Vociferon getting spirit leech is 'whatever' I actually would have prefered he stayed an arc node with the changes to spell slave.

>>47563507
Yeah two small squads of Handlers was my plan too. Just remember that Condition only removes 1 point now though. I'm considering a min unit to Enrage, and a max unit to Condition since Condition stacks.

>>47563463
Don't do that. You should try out a little bit first and see if you actually like it. Dumping that much cash all at once is pretty unwise.

>>47563503
Incite now works on all FF models, not just BG, so that's a start. Anything that can give them Ashen Veil is good too. I think Beth will like them, she'll just build for them different since she's a combined arms caster now. Paired with a blightbringer maybe?

>>47563040

The Khadoran ones need Point Blank rather than Gunfighter so Butcher can make them happy.

>>47563225
I mean, sure, fine. But the all the most "desert dwelling" type guys use guns: Farrow, Efaarit, Idrians, etc. Menoth as far as I know don't have a "fluff" reason to not use guns, but rather it doesn't fit with the medieval crusader fire!knight theme they have.

>>47563142
you can always buy arc nodes. now he's a hex bast turret. that's better. no clue what else to do with G3 though, without carnage...mobility really seems to emphasize the jacks, and giving them Unyielding is nice. but in that case why not just Venny or Morty? losing boneshaker really hurt too. seems like his whole point now is to hand out most of his focus and cast mobility every turn.

>>47563590

Wouldn't mind seeing a Paladin of the Wall unit with guns. They seem like the sort of guys to go 'Hmm...I can protect people...from long range'.

Point Blank, Hand Cannon, Shield. They'd have to pick between Aim and Stone and Mortar stance but it would be cool.

>>47563576
what do point blank and butcher have to do with each other

>>47563629


Boosted melee attack and damage rolls

>>47563660
ahh got it. yeah that would be pretty ok

>>47563537
so where to i start with like a small force beyond the old Sorscha box

>>47563766
I'd say probably go for one of the staple units, either winter guard or pikemen, but this is mk2 thinking. Maybe try to grab a different caster to see how they change it up?

>>47563559
Thaggy1 might also be a good choice for the Hex Hunters, Draconic Blessing helps with P+S 10, and Fog of War means they'd get Stealth from Prowl.

>>47563510
If you wanna run more infantry oriented lists pick up Iron Fangs, MoW Shocktroopers and either Irusk. Jack list might make a debut in mk3 so you might look into Karchev or Harkevich if that's more your style. You can't go wrong with Behemoth, he's one of the best jacks in the game as of now.

>>47563879
whens his new sculpt coming out (behemoth)

>>47563869
It's hard for me to look past double spears/BB with thags, honestly. maybe you could fit HH as a vanguard but if you do, may as well just do swordsmen instead imo

>>47563142
Cankerworm, Inflictor, a couple Deathrippers, maybe a colossal though I'm not sure which one really. Probably a Kraken since Gaspy does nothing for mcthralls anymore. then some good frontline infantry, probably satyxis raiders. just spitballing.

>>47563963
July.

Anybody that can hook me up with the spoiled trollblood deck?

>>47563348
>>47563383
Well at this point it would be abby1/thags2/b&b

>>47562920
Source? The leaked decks someone posted here don't have that.

>>47565033
they're in the side-by-side French/English leak.

>>47563987
Its about using HH and the BFS, than the locks. Spears with Thaggy1 are amazing, no doubt.

>tfw you have to buy a bunch of beasts/jacks to keep up in Mk3

>>47565235
>Cryx Problems

>>47565235

>My god, I need to buy stompy robots to play stompy robots: The game

Can anyone point me towards some good Sevy1&2 lists? I wanna start planning for him in 3e and want some foundation. Thanks.

>>47565545
Only idiots think the game is big stompy robots. It's combined arms. It always was intended to be combined arms. That's like saying 40K is only about tanks.
Stop being a retard.
Stop saying WM is all about the jacks.

>>47558934
Oh shit. I was wish listing for satyxis pistoleers like 3 years ago. Now to wait another 5 years for models.

>>47565604

I'll stop saying that when they start putting things other than Jacks + Warcaster in the starter boxes and making entire editions to make Jacks more of a focus than before.

>>47565604
Hell, until the free warjack points, an increasing amount of players were avoiding the robots altogether!

>>47565604
>That's like saying 40K is only about tanks.

no it's like saying 40k is all about spess mehreens which is pretty true

>>47565848
Two player starter boxes
rekt nerd

>>47562426
Artificer should be there somewhere to protect mhsf from blast spam. He also plays nicely with archers with aoe pull.

Should be 2 arcanists so power up + empower gives exactly 2 focus to each hydra per turn.

>>47561271
The Circle one was terrible for Mk2 but legit for Mk3.

Argii are going to be one of the most hated models in the game, and Ferals are worth taking because they have Primal now.

>>47565162
Speaking of the French leaks, did Circle or Protectorate French/English leaks ever surface?

Trying out some mk3 tonight, going to give this a go

Butcher 1
-Ruin
-Juggernaught
-Grolar
-Sylys
Andrei
-Behemoth
Max Mechanics
Max Kayazy + UA
75 Points

>>47563590
>I mean, sure, fine. But the all the most "desert dwelling" type guys use guns: Farrow, Efaarit, Idrians, etc. Menoth as far as I know don't have a "fluff" reason to not use guns, but rather it doesn't fit with the medieval crusader fire!knight theme they have.

As part of the agreements that led to the Protectorate being its own nation,t they had to agree not to create a standing army. That means no factories churning our rifles and machineguns.

Crossbows and flamethrowers are easier to explain away than a bunch of rifles and canons, while hand thrown bombs, ballistas, and crude rocket launchers can be assembled quickly with fewer resources than other kinds of artillery.

Another way the Protectorate skirted the law about having a standing army is with its martial orders. It initially suggested they were purely ceremonial, then they said they needed more for defense against Idrians. Zealots were trained more or less unofficially and they keep their bomb caches hidden.

And the Castigator//Dervish chassis are the only locally produced jacks meant exclusively for war. Everything else (including characters aside from the Avatar) are re-purposed labor jacks made from parts smuggled in from the North.

And on top of all this, the Sul-Menites are just a very austere society in general. Not only do they shun magicka (which goes hand in hand with technology), they aren't particularly fond of conveniences and luxuries in general. Drinking and dancing is not a big thing in the Protectorate. Aside from using them as decoration in the highest ranks of the priesthood, Protectorate folks don't place much value in the diamonds and jewels their land is known for producing. They instead use it to bribe northern officials so they can get away with more treaty violations.

They just aren't going to be on the cutting edge of any kind technology that anybody else cares about developing.

>efaarit scouts
stop guys, even the mention of their name brings a massive hard-on to me.

>>47565604
>Only idiots think the game is big stompy robots. It's combined arms. It always was intended to be combined arms. That's like saying 40K is only about tanks.

40k isn't called WarVEHICLEs.

40k doesn't have a tank built in the logo.

40k armies don't force you to take tanks by giving you tank points that must be spent on tanks.

You don't buy 40k starter boxes that are just tanks.

40k doesn't exclude "infantry only" formats but include a "tank only format".

The game doesn't revolve around special individuals who are specially in large part because of their ability to efficiently control tanks.

It's like going into Burger King and having some douche try to point out that "It's not just about burgers. We have chicken nuggets, and chicken fries, and chicken sandwiches too."

Of course they do, and I'm sure lots of people come to Burger King for their chicken products, but I came to Burger King instead of going to a chicken joint because I wanted a burger.

>>47567066

I always thought they should play more with Menoth's Fury. It's basically petroleum right? You can do more than flamethrowers with that. Why not a big rocket? Not like a redeemer, more like a renegade.

I said when the spoilers that the Avatar staying the same meant it was complete shit since it'll be no jack points allowed to be spent on it as well as random focus.
But now, thinking about it. It's MAT 8 and can be power boosted twice to mitigate the random focus (or just overstack).
Despite the fact that you can't spend free points on it, it might be a pretty solid piece.

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>pFeora has an eye of menoth
>except its only for attack rolls
>and only for flameguard units
>and has half the radius
What were they thinking???

>>47567066
>And on top of all this, the Sul-Menites are just a very austere society in general. Not only do they shun magicka (which goes hand in hand with technology), they aren't particularly fond of conveniences and luxuries in general. Drinking and dancing is not a big thing in the Protectorate. Aside from using them as decoration in the highest ranks of the priesthood, Protectorate folks don't place much value in the diamonds and jewels their land is known for producing. They instead use it to bribe northern officials so they can get away with more treaty violations.

On the other hand: The Idrians love drinking and dancing. This made my Idrian Paladin of the Wall a lot of fun to play.

>>47567391

It's one of VERY few warjacks that can hit 4 focus on it. That + Mat 8 gives it some good uses.

>>47567391
If you could spend jack points on it it would be a auto-include just about.

It's still a solid piece, big hitter. You just have to keep a good idea of where it fits in the battleplan because it is a weighty investment.

>>47567300
>I always thought they should play more with Menoth's Fury. It's basically petroleum right? You can do more than flamethrowers with that. Why not a big rocket? Not like a redeemer, more like a renegade.

That's what the Vanquisher is. It shoots big bombs full of Menoth's Fury.

>>47567562
>What were they thinking???


That it helps with one of the biggest issues with Cleansers and Daughters (low to average RAT and MAT respectively) and lets TFG hit more often without CMA. Daughters with backstrike bonus are now MAT 8 with Anatomical Precision.

That it costs zero focus, can't be dispelled, affects all models in her CA, and has no real downsides. Couldn't ask for more.

And most importantly, that it replaces her shitty old rule which allowed Flameguard to auto-succeed command checks.

>>47567562

You do realize that is actually good right?

She lets Cleansers be Rat 6 and now they have a 10" pow 12 spray.

Also, she basically didn't change except Blazing Effigy got cheaper.

pFeora was always my jam and now she is literally the same but slightly better. I don;t see a reason to complain.

I am more concerned with eFeora loosing Ignite. That is actually a big downgrade.

>>47567391

Also, consider that Piper can now give Pathfinder to any friendly model/unit.

I am more excited about this fact than any of the other shit Menoth got. Pathfinder will make Protectorate Melee jacks viable in a way they weren't in MK2.

Also, now that I think about it, Piper has Dirge of Mists. I have no clue why the fuck the new Reclaimer exists. His only interesting ability is to hand out Ashen Veil to single models at the cost of a soul. I really have no clue what they were thinking with that guy. He has to spend souls to activate really mediocre abilities that only effect single models... I miss him just being a Focus battery.

>>47568228

I honestly never used Ignite that often. I usually ran her with a TFG screen and lots of jacks, and TFG really don't benefit too much from +2 pow. Between bonded redeemer/judicator templates and her feat turn, there was usually not much in the way of infantry in the way, and my jacks could do most of the rest of the heavy lifting.

>>47568381

Actually TFG with Ignite are pretty nice. Going from charging pow 10's to charging pow 12's is a big difference and doing their attacks in Pods of 2, you can have charging pow 14's,

Also, ignite on jacks was very good when you needed to crack armor. Running against a colossal or old heavy infantry, it was real good.

Doesn't hurt that Ignite is just a really good spell. Loosing it for an ability she used to have inherently as a single model upkeep spell is really sad. She was basically nerfed when, in reality, she wasn't all that amazing before.

>>47568452
>Actually TFG with Ignite are pretty nice. Going from charging pow 10's to charging pow 12's is a big difference and doing their attacks in Pods of 2, you can have charging pow 14's,

I preferred to run them with the UA and deal a pair of pow12's rather than a single pow14.

>>Also, ignite on jacks was very good when you needed to crack armor. Running against a colossal or old heavy infantry, it was real good.

Oh come on. With Choir, Menoth already had the hardest hitting jacks.

I mean, Ignite will definitely be missed, but the ability to cycle around her old warjack bond is a pretty damn good trade. Mk3 Redeemers were already good enough.

Anyone got eyes on the Ret cards for Mk III prime that weren't in the spoiled decks? House Lys healer and Ellowyr Swordsmen I think

>>47563590
Because priests and alchemists can't spend a lot of time in the same room, unless one of the parties is in an iron maiden.

>>47563170
Gunpowder used in IK is an alchemical compound that can only made by mages IIRC.

>>47569255

It's Alchemical yeah but it's not made by mages. The Protectorate is actually very good at alchemy according to the RPG.

>>47561412
>Destroyer whining unfounded?

Fuck you, it's not whining it's a fact komrad. Any good khador player is salty as fuck about the destroyer especially when people suggest it isn't as bad as they say. Trust us, it's really that awful.

>>47569349

I don't regard anything published outside of the 3.0 books regarding the setting to be cannon.

Protectorate should of stayed a small fledgling state of zealots too big for their britches. They went from begging khador for scraps to suddenly and with out any justification to being able to mass produce colossals while simultaneously threatening the two power houses in western immoran? I know the writers though menoth players wanted to feel like their faction really mattered in the meta plot, but it's a bad change in the lore.

>>47558868
Huh. Yeah it really does. They're wall templates and his feat removes wall templates.

>>47569597
You better be bitching about how prominent Cryx is in the lore now too

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PLAYTESTING: Has anyone played mkIII with the leaked spoilers yet? How did you do it? The PDFs are just really long files and I wouldnt know how to print them. Most suggestions are greatly appreciated.

>>47569597
>I don't regard anything published outside of the 3.0 books regarding the setting to be cannon.

Even in 3.0 they didn't hate Alchemy. Heck, if anything they've gotten more extreme in anti-magic since then.

>>47557274
Why does everyone ignore people asking for the leaks?

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>>47570460
Sloth and pettiness.
I could post the links myself but I'll just call you a noob.

>>47570460
The links have been posted in previous threads. You can just look in the archive for them.

>>47570487
I wasnt one of the guys asking, just wondering. But damn, pettiness is probably the most infuriating trait.

>>47570460

they were up long enough that regular anons got them, it's now facebook people coming here and asking because facebook groups say 'we can't post them get them on 4chan'

i love the whiny faggots on the forums complaining about the ILLEGAL LEAKS and how evil they are. some people have a massive stick up the ass

>>47560651
pDenny. Don't forget about the Nyss.

Also because some of the leaks were from the new card decks and so did not contain things like Helios, House Lys Healer or Ellowyr Swordsmen for Ret. While the cygnar and merc decks had two of their new models found in Prime Mk III

>>47563507
>Bronzeback with two units of Beast Handlers
Is 28 points. TWENTY EIGHT POINTS.

>>47563507

eh, skorne can still ignore fury management to a degree. Check the THR stats on a lot of our beasts. If push comes to shove we can just ignore fury with little to no consequences on better than average odds since very few factions average 9 and 10 as THR

>>47566654
Just played my first game of mk3 - thoroughly enjoyed it. The game was closer and more exciting than any I've played in a long time.

Went up against:
Venethrax
Seether
Slayer
Erebus
Gun Arcnode Bonechicken
Trample Bonechicken
Full Blackbanes
Full Bloodwitches + UA
Soultaker

Def14 and poltergeist was a pain in the ass, and mortality makes Venethrax' assassination game scary. Lamentation is also a lot better now.

Also discovered that Furied Kayazy still pull warjacks in half, especially with the changes to Backstab. Powerful Attack on Big B makes him amazing, and the autoheal from mechanics is much better than the old skillcheck.

Game came down to Butcher surviving being on fire and corroded with 1hp left over, letting Ruin throw the arc node at Venethrax so the Grolar and Behemoth could blow him apart.

Was a pdf of the blood of kings ever posted?

>>47571000
Two agonizers and a Krea is 22 points. Yaaaaay

>>47569531
you could go into actual detail as why maybe

>>47568582
2 POW 12s vs 1 POW 14 depends what you're hunting. sometimes the 14 is better. this is provable with statistics.

>>47571798
Yeah, support bloat got worse. We're at the point where I won't be taking any aside from a few beast handlers.

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>AKs got worse

So with mkIII hitting soon, im dusting off my old models.
Both armies are missing some essentials (like a TyCom and Warders) but i dont know what to get now that 3rd ed is mixing things up.

I have for skorne:
Swordsmen, incidiarii, beast handlers, nihilators
Willbreaker, sould ward, agoniser, marketh
gladiator/sentry, bronzeback, Molik, archidon, brute, shaman
pHexxy, eMakeda, Naaresh

And Trolls:
pMadrak, pGrim, pGrissel
Mauler, Impaler, Axer, Mulg, Pyre troll
Fennblades, bushwackers, KSB, Buffalos
Fellcaller, Runbearer, Stone Scriber, Jannessa

So what should i get to complete these armies?
I'm already tempted to get warders, champions, eMadkrak, Tyrant Commader and Swordsmen UA.
Anything else?

>>47565635
Metal models always get released fast.

>>47571950
I don't know, I've been toting with a janky list that uses their gas to dick over beasts. Alten, Kell, Widow maker solo, widow makers, and AKs can irreparably cripple a whole branch every turn. Maybe, lol

>>47571955
Go to the faction forums and see if anyone's already made an analysis of models and costs. Everything's changed but not everything's equally good.
Personally, I'd get a new warlock for each army, plus 1-2 support solos or a beast. If there isn't an analysis already, just gauge the level of OP by the level of nerd tears.

>>47571955
If you don't want to spend more money on additional models, I'd go for something along thise lines for Skorne:

Makeda2
- Molik
- Gladiator
Incindiarii
Nihilators
Swordsmen
Willbreaker

That should be roughly around 55 points, leaving you with 20 points to spend. You could do worse than spending them on the Bronzeback.

Naaresh got nerfed too hard to still be playable. pHexy is still totally underwhelming.

>>47571950
I don't know, to me it seems they got sidegraded. They lost the extra attack, assault is inferior to the old order and the gas got worse but they got +1 RAT, do more damage on charges and (if I got it right) the gas prevent transfers. Also Strakhov makes them effectively MAT/RAT 7/7. So now instead of having lots of very weak attacks they seem to have a more of a utility role.

>>47572038
Probably a few fun gimmicks to work out with their gas bombs, but they're a hell of a lot more niche now than before (and they were pretty niche to begin with).

Which is kinda the opposite of what I was hoping for.

>>47572133
AKs are in a weird spot in Khador. They already have almost every flavor of melee infantry so it's hard to make space for something new. I don't even know what role they should have that IFP or Kayazy wouldn't do better

Points: 50/50
Archdomina Makeda (*5pts)
* Cyclops Brute (5pts)
* Aradus Sentinel (8pts)
* Bronzeback Titan (10pts)
* Molik Karn (11pts)
* Aptimus Marketh (3pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer (3pts)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker (2pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)

Got a one list Steamroller on Sunday and I'm gonna be taking this because apparently Makeda1 is taking a trip to Trashtown in Mk3 so I'll give her a final hoorah. Anything dumb in the list that I've missed apart from hurr no Raider to support Sentinel? Haven't actually used Orin before, can't wait to dump lightning on niggers.

>>47571955
For your Skorne I'd recommend getting a Razor Wurm to use with pHexxy. It's a nice forward playing skirmish beast to use as a Soul Slave since your control range for it is doubled up to 28". It's also been given a nice animus and been made cheaper.

>>47572100
I enjoyed pHex's gimmick,the loss of Soulfire is my least favourite change in mkiii

>>47572166
And shooting infantry are already pretty much totally covered by winter guard and all their toolbox attachments.

I want AKs to be good, but their competition has eaten all the pies.

>>47572175
Have you got Incindiarii? If so take out the Sentinel+Swamp Gobbers for them.

>>47572175
>For your Skorne I'd recommend getting a Razor Wurm to use with pHexxy
You're thinking of eHexy, the non-shit version of pHexy.

>>47572223
While eHexxy being able to just casually channel through anything he wants, the Razor Wurm can still sit right the fuck out in the middle of nowhere and have shit channeled through it. Dropping that 5" template in your opponent's back line is something eHexxy can't do, what with not having a 5" template.

And while I do have Incindiarii, it's a relatively small Steamroller at which there are 2 Menoth and 1 Trollblood players, meaning the fire is basically useless, meaning the unit is just an overcosted piece of shit. I'd sooner just rely on Orin/Nihilators/Sentinel to clear out enough infantry to deliver Molik. I might consider a min unit of Incindiarii though. Maybe swap the Sentinel for min Nihilators + Extoller to hoover up those Nihilators.

>>47572314
>Maybe swap the Sentinel for min Nihilators
Min Incindiarii, henceforth referred to as "Mincendiarii".

>>47572314
>While eHexxy being able to just casually channel through anything he wants, the Razor Wurm can still sit right the fuck out in the middle of nowhere and have shit channeled through it. Dropping that 5" template in your opponent's back line is something eHexxy can't do, what with not having a 5" template.
Ashes. To Ashes.

>>47572314
>And while I do have Incindiarii, it's a relatively small Steamroller at which there are 2 Menoth and 1 Trollblood players, meaning the fire is basically useless, meaning the unit is just an overcosted piece of shit. I'd sooner just rely on Orin/Nihilators/Sentinel to clear out enough infantry to deliver Molik. I might consider a min unit of Incindiarii though. Maybe swap the Sentinel for min Nihilators + Extoller to hoover up those Nihilators.
I see. Then Incindiarii would really not be that good. You should really consider a second unit though. Maybe Swordsmen or Keltarii? Or Cetrati or Immortals+UA?

>>47572349
Here's a rundown of the factions attending.

>Skorne (me)
>Menoth
>Trolls
>Circle
>Cygnar
>Legion
>Khador
>Convergence

Okay so there's only 1 Menoth player going it turns out. I'll bring a min Incindiarii. Also that spread of factions god DAMN.

>>47572374
And no Cryx. Weird.

>>47572439
It's only a small shop attended by cool dudes, so no tryhard Cryx players. Apart from the one tryhard Cryx player that owns 3 units of Bane Knights, has never used them, and cries endlessly about the Mk3 changes.

>>47572457
If I were him I'd be lubing up Venethrax for insertion into enemy orifices at terminal velocity.

>>47572457

But the knights are actually good in mk3. Its the Thralls that got a ball smacker right where it hurts. With a 2" reach, vengeance, ghostly, and +1 arm, they are going to see action each game! More than that, they have a descent ps with +2 damage on the charge (don't they even have the -2 arm rule as for regular banes as well? Ether way, Cryx is the de-buff team of all times, so no worries).

He has absolutely no right to complain, as all units have had a rough time in mk3, Cryx just got brought down to a reasonable level of play. But the Knights, they are still scary if you ask me!

>>47572114
assault is not worse than assault and battery. assault is largely better, considering you have better range on the shot. the downside is targeting. losing the shield bash for brutal charge is a decent trade imo.

>>47572457
knights have the same average charge damage, just less when not charging. but ghostly makes it generally easy to charge something. i question whether warriors will be deliverable at all without a couple inflictors in front of them or an occultation caster.

Can someone explain to me where he blades fit in a list? I cant for the life of me figure out what use they are.
Can they use their spells without killing someone first, or am I just retarded?

>>47573090
What are you talking about?

>>47573090
what unit? "blades" is super vague

>>47573113
>>47573128
Hexblades, sorry.

>>47573138
Do they still have stealth?

>>47572718
>He has absolutely no right to complain
Considering the kind of player he is in every game he plays, that really won't stop him.

So, lorefags.

With the events of Blood of Kings, who would you guys say is the best swordfighter on Immoren now? Rhyas? Leto? Narn? Makeda? Thyron?

>>47573384

Vlad held his own in an unwinnable fight, I'd say him

>>47573384
>swordfighter
are you racist against axes, or what

>>47573384
Acosta, Thyron, Makeda, and Rhyas would all be in the running

>>47573428
Go home butcher. Your Waifupowers don't work on us.

>>47573212
they have prowl

>>47573090
yes they can bolt as their attack, but making it go off with Battle Wizard is better since then you get a stab and a magic shot. where they fit...i'd say anyone with occultation, ashen veil, fog of war or the BB. bayal is almost mandatory for the AD. i...don't really like them now to be honest. with the BB the question is always 'but why not swordsmen and warspears." with Beth, Ashen Veil helps a lot, but there are better warrior models to do flank with (like swordsmen). hmm maybe with Vayl1/2...incite is nice. or Rhyas1, dash + occultate is a good combo.

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Just fooling around with Kozlov, I must admit I really like his skillset. Since I still have the Khador stuff from the two player box knocking about the bitsbox I am actually tempted to get one of the new battle boxes once they come out and start a Khador force in addition to my PoM and CoC, specifically the sort of heavy metal avalanche that couldn't really be played until now.

Kozlov
*Juggernaut
*Juggernaut
*Decimator
Man-o-War Shocktroopers (max.)
Man-o-War Kovnik
*Destroyer

That puts me at a cool 49PC for games at 50. I'm not sure if I shouldn't put the Destroyer with the Kovnik, I must admit. Assault seems decent enough, but I'd be giving up a lot for it.
And once the MoW UA is released I can grab that and a Grolar to build towards 75. I'd still have 4PC to grab some support. Andrei Malakov or Sylysh Wylshenar would be obvious choices, but mechanics would also be neat. Or maybe something else?

>>47573384

I'd put decent money on Dartan Vilmon. After all, the guy is as good as he is without a drop of magic being used by him.

If you bring 'They are allowed to cast spells/use power fields during the swordfight' it becomes a bit more iffy but I'd give few people an edge on Vilmon in raw swordplay.

He wasn't picked by as the personal champion of a god for no reason.

>>47569597
>They went from begging khador for scraps to suddenly and with out any justification to being able to mass produce colossals while simultaneously threatening the two power houses in western immoran? I know the writers though menoth players wanted to feel like their faction really mattered in the meta plot, but it's a bad change in the lore.

The overwhelming majority of Protectorate victories have come from their converting locals into fanatical (or fearful) irregulars.

It was stated in Vindictus' fluff that he's actually banned from many regions in the north because he keeps creating rabid mobs of converts in every city he visits.

>>47573384
>>47573484
I feel like Rhyas is more of an assassin then sword fighter. Not totally up to date on hordes stories though. Is there a scene where she actually has a sword duel?

Leto's definitely not in the running. He may be competent but he's clearly a tier below the best of the best.

>>47573914
Well, remember that not all the spells on a warcaster's card are actually spells. They can all do magic, sure, may many of the things on a spell list are abstractions of tactics or skills that require some concentration on the part of the warcaster.

Irusk's Inhospitable Ground is explicitly, according to the design team, him choosing advantageous surroundings. Vlad's BoK isn't a spell, it's him going "I'LL DO THIS SHIT MYSELF" and breaking out some innate extraordinary nature of his. Same goes for warnouns with Storm Rager tax, like Grayle or Thyron.

>>47573936
She instantly defeated Thagrosh back when she had no magic.

>>47574155

I dunno, I'd say Storm Rager is a spell. Seeing as they can toss it on other people too.

That and Vlad has always been big on the magic in his blood (The same reason he was a Sorcerer in 3.5 Iron Kingdoms, not a Wizard). It IS a spell, however it's a spell that's tied to him rather than training.

But anyway, it's hard to make an assessment on best swordsman because Warnouns get bigger shinier cards due to being the focus on that game rather than actually being 20/30 human lives in toughness. So it's hard to work out how much more to scale up non-warcasters to be equivalent to fluff.

>>47574155
>Vlad's BoK isn't a spell, it's him going "I'LL DO THIS SHIT MYSELF" and breaking out some innate extraordinary nature of his.

Actually Blood of Kings the book that came out really showed how Vlad really works. He is absolutely using magic. It's just that he's invoking sorcerer blood lines rather then relying on warcaster powers for it.

Shae whom has Storm Rager and is the original storm rager user is explicitly using a spell on his fellow pirates. He also uses veil of mists and phantasm as his main stays in fluff terms.

In MK2 at least IG wasn't just a tactical terrain choosing. It totally was a spell. Their decision to leave Irusk with IG is related to him being the one they can see always getting advantageous surroundings. Yet there may still be a magical nature to how he takes advantage of the terrain. Perhaps it reflects springing a trap via magic?

>>47573914
Anyway, WM/H is an inherently magical world. So there's a lot of stuff that gets debate teamed if you try to cut magic. Even Vinter was taking advantage of magical equipment. He was certainly a result of daily conditioning and insane skill. He needed to be good enough that "immune to fatigue" would become a godly skill.

>>47574155
>She instantly defeated Thagrosh back when she had no magic.

Hmm that isn't quite the same style of fight as a swordsmans duel. I'm not sure Vinter was the best warrior on the continent. In fact I'd bet money on Butcher in a Butcher vs Vinter fight. If only due to the chance of being cut totally in half.

Still that is also very impressive and enough for me to get why Rhyas gets invited to the arena.

>>47573814
I like Kozlov but I just don't understand what he can do that Irusk1 or Butcher1 can't do better. Is there any situation where he would be a better choice then those two?

For the IKRPG, are the Stormgunner or Standardbearer careers anywhere? I know Kingdoms/Nations/Gods has the Knights and Halberds

>>47573814
It's not like Kozlov has enough focus for fourth jack.
At this point you ask yourself if you're downgrading some jack to find points for Malakov or sticking with kovnik.

I would probably downgrade 1 juggy to marauder and take mechanics.

>>47574269

>Anyway, WM/H is an inherently magical world. So there's a lot of stuff that gets debate teamed if you try to cut magic.

Yeah but including magic runs into the issue of 'Is this person really the best swordsman or is the magic doing the heavy lifting?'

All in all, this is a tricky debate with blurry lines.

>>47574284
Butcher 1 doesn't extend threat or give reposition.
Irusk 1 can't put Fury on jacks or be a threat himself. Also his feat does nothing for jacks.

>>47574269
>Anyway, WM/H is an inherently magical world

So much this.

Remember, the Iron Kingdoms setting was a D&D 3.0/3.5 setting when it first started. It had some changes, but by and large it worked on that mentality, with people loaded up with magical items, spells, effects, and all sorts of other shit.

And the spells on the characters stuff are all over the place. All Menites are clerics, most other warcasters are either wizards, sorcs, or some of the custom magic classes they had.

>In fact I'd bet money on Butcher in a Butcher vs Vinter fight. If only due to the chance of being cut totally in half.

Na, Vinter's explicitly a level 20 character in a setting where all the non-cryxian characters are level 14-15 ish. The only person in the Iron Kingdoms setting that could have beat him would have been Voyle, who was a fucking level 35 character.

>>47574284

He is an introductory caster to khador. He doesn't do anything special, he just parrots what other khador casters are already doing. If you end up liking his play style you won be disappointed with khador like so many people were.

>>47574318
Agreed.

>>47574332

Butcher and many of the other casters were never given stats as they didn't exist at the time

>>47573384
So, I assume Vinter bites it, then?

>>47574320
So in short, he's more mobile then Butcher and jack friendlier then Irusk

>>47574355
I doubt very much they're on Vinter's level though.

I mean, shit, Butcher almost ended up dead during the siege, a siege that Vinter would have straight up walked through without issues.

>>47574332
I don't know much about Voyle but was he really that much of a badass? What could he so?

>>47574403

He was divinely invincible and could punch jacks to death. It required an act of God to defeat him.

So, I play in a pretty casual meta and don't want to really start an arms race, but how does this list sound?
Faction: Retribution of Scyrah
Casters: 1/1
Points: 35/35
Adeptis Rahn Shyeel (*6pts)
* Imperatus (12pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Mage Hunter Strikeforce (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Mage Hunter Commander (2pts)
Arcanist (1pts)
House Shyeel Artificer (3pts)
House Shyeel Artificer (3pts)
House Shyeel Magister (2pts)

>>47574366
He's more jack friendly than both.
Butcher's jack hit hard, but without threat extenders spd 4 jacks will always get outcharged. Butcher 1 should take shooting jacks or Ruin.

>>47574332
>Na, Vinter's explicitly a level 20 character in a setting where all the non-cryxian characters are level 14-15 ish. The only person in the Iron Kingdoms setting that could have beat him would have been Voyle, who was a fucking level 35 character.

Your going too DnD there. Vinter does take blows and potentially lethal ones. He took a full force smashing from an Ironclad and just bounced up. It was destroying his armor that let the damage stick.

So you need someone that is accurate enough in the attack to hit Vinter and who has enough destructive potential to accidentally damage the armor at the same time. I think that Butchers high MAT is partially a reflection of how freaking hard it is to dodge a giant axe wielding by a crazy person. Further Butcher actually can kill multiple warjacks in straight up fights. Vinter relies on dodging "predictable" attacks and stabbing the soft bits of the engine. So we know Butcher has the damage output.

Vinter stands a solid chance of winning such a duel but Butcher is one of the few characters with a solid chance of killing him "by accident". That is by intentionally cleaving Vinter in twain and accidentally destroying the armor in the process. The ironclad's blow was a blunt blow that didn't harm the armor.

>>47574403
He was something like a level 10 Cleric/Level 10 Excrurator/level 15 monk

And in the fluff, Voyle was fucking invincible. About the only thing in the setting that could have killed him was a dragon.

And he'd have given the dragon a go.

>>47573485
The juggernaut is the best swordfighter on Immoren

>>47574359

Well, yeah. They needed to remove some of the only remaining non-warnouns that were relevant.

I know it's the nature of the game and them not really wanting to take focus away from the warcasters you play as but I really wish they'd do more to show that Warcasters are not gods among men, that non-warcasters can be just as impressive

>>47574378

Vinter is basically what a D&D 4e Fighter ends up as. No, he has no fancy magic at his command beyond the items he has. Yes, he'll still tear your metal puppet apart and stab you to death.

>>47574403

He was the ONLY Epic level character in a 3.5 setting. Oh yes, he was that much of a badass.

He got TT stats once. He had Armour Piercing, Weapon Master, Pow 12 punching daggers and a pow 25 ranged weapon. He could one-round a colossal. Solo.

He did not get a points cost for obvious reasons.

>>47574436

>Your going too DnD there.

Well, it WAS a D&D setting.

>>47574436

>Your going too DnD there.

Well, he's literally a level 20 D&D character.

>>47569688

I'm okay with it to a degree. They weren't really talked about a whole lot, so the idea that these sea pirates are actually much much more than that is kind of cool. It gives them a motive other than being toruk's boring play things.

>>47570404
I don't really remember them doing alchemy, but it makes sense to a degree given their weaponry and how they've been exploiting this cool new natural resource called "oil".

Gun powder is something a bit different though. Any ass hole alchemist can make it, but military grade qaulity stuff was basically mass produced by laell and laell only. Protectorate doesn't have a lot of gun powder weapons, most of their shit spurts fire.

>>47574419
>>47574449
>>47574464

Damn, where can I read up more on him? Is his power attributed to divine favor? How did he get so powerful?

>>47574536

In the old 3.5 books.

The base 'Level 35 character' is innate. His power is mostly 'Him being that damn good'.

During the crusade, he was basically cashing in every single favor that Menoth owed him after his decades of service and was a nexus of divine power and favor beyond even his normal 3.5 stats.

Until he wasn't. Then he died.

>>47571472

A planner isn't going to rely on needing a "8" or losing an element, and that's just one fury. Even smash-face players don't like it, and if it goes beyond that never on anything they didn't go for broke with. At the least that isn't an "eh" thing. Think of it as A-bomb checks to get an idea of how people see it (for all that nobody is going to have to know what those even are soon enough).

>>47574568
More specifically, until he straight up ignored a prophecy brought up by the Harbinger that if he went into the city he'd die.

Man was so invincible he figured he could power through it, and he almost did.

>>47574464
>but I really wish they'd do more to show that Warcasters are not gods among men, that non-warcasters can be just as impressive

Croe, Midwinter, and Quinn?

>>47574595

Don't forget casually firing upon Menites with complete disregard.

>>47574626

He was a bit of a prick.

But then, he was the iconic scrutator, complete with the whole 'I'm a LE follower of a LN god'

>>47574464
weren't the Vinter and Voyle TT stats for specific metagame events that corresponded to the fluff in the mk1 books? anyway practically speaking Vinter was the best swordsman in the world because that was the role he needed to play in the narrative, magic or no. why he didn't just kill the shit out of other coupe supporters or the skorne once they turned on him (and he certainly seemed capable of doing so) is just because that's not what the plot required.

>>47574652
Reclaimers are still my favorite part of Menoth fluff.

Explicitly LN followers of a LN god, they're still generally considered the most terrifying of any of Menoth's priests, especially by Menites.

For the other lorefags, is there any info on what the other Cryxian cities are like? I feel like we know a lot about blackwater but nothing about like, skell

>>47574734

God works in mysterious, fucking terrifying ways.

>>47574729
Vinter was not invincible. He still needed an army and couldn't solo one on his own. Sure he recovers as fast a Troll but even a Troll can die. Not to mention that all that fighting does take a toll even if it's a reduced one that is payed later.

Every time he fights he risks something that goes beyond what his armor can handle.

I don't think Vinter is purely a plot puppet. He feels pretty consistent with the way he sees himself and the world.

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>>47574752
There's some other stuff about specific people(Wrathe and Mort are from Skell) and some of the specific locations inside of it.

>>47574788
what's the deal with his armor exactly? i remember something about this being like the integral reason he could fight Makeda like he did (with her shunting tons of blows to beasts via transfers), but I can't remember the details.

>>47574752
Cryx got a brief mention in the original World Guide.

Skell is a temple city that is perpetually covered in a thick smog of blight & ash. Anyone that isn't already dead is blighted, and even they can't go outside for long.

>>47574729
Vinter didn't kill the Skorne because he couldn't. He barely defeat Makeda and got lucky that the Skorne thought he was Jesus 2.0 coming to lead them. After militarizing them, there was no chance he'd be able to beat them.

>>47574820
Blood magic. Feel no pain + feel no fatigue + troll level regeneration for the user. Armor can also repair itself through blood.

Powered by Vinter bleeding or blood falling upon the armor.

Magnus beats it by dosing it in acid/alchemical compound that was prepared by using samples of similar metal. Then he waited a bit for it to get working and backstabbed the fuck out of Vinter. Which worked in part because by that point Vinter was fighting in a way that over-relied on the effects of the armor.

It was also somewhat explicitly stated that the armor is draining and that he does feel the pain later. Note that Vinter got scarier post Skorne because he started integrating tips/tricks from them in his daily routine.

OTOH he's older and creakier that he once was. A fact that we only learn in the "this is from Vinters perspective" bits because he never showed weakness in front of anybody else.

Oh his swords is just supernaturally sharp and able to cut through armor. Something about it or Vinter also lets him wield a great sword in a 1h fighting style so there's that too.

>>47574729

it's not that he was that good of a swordsman, Vinter only survived some of those fights because he had the power of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H5uWRjFsGc taking on an army alone would do enough damage that he couldn't get back up again eventually

>>47574962
Fantastic explanation.

>>47574839
It's worth noting that if anybody is crazy enough to keep throwing bodies at Vinter it's Skorne. I mean if they didn't think he was Jesus 2.0.

Ignoring fatigue is a good trick in a battle because battles don't last very long. However, we have no indication that Vinter can keep up the pace for hours or days. He only really needs to get past the threshold of a sprint and he has an advantage.

Oh and just remembered. When the armor stopped working all the fatigue hit Vinter. You know right before Magnus's sword.

>>47574536
Warmachine Legends has the story of how he died.

>>47574788
Theres some post from Doug or some shit, or maybe it was just in the Sul story after Stryker flees after getting all his warjacks one-punched. Voyle was, for all intents and purposes, literally invincible because his beliefe and faith were abaolute, granting him power as such. Not exactly going to solo the world either way, i guess, but also either way noone was going or beat him. His faith wavered after he killed the Harbinger, allowing him to be slain by Stryker by proxy via Prividence. Shame really. Hope Sevvy levels up and becomes as badass

>>47574819
>>47574823
Very cool, thank you. I wish they would come out with the Cryx RPG suppliment

>>47558440
It would be pretty cool in my opinion if players got to place one hazard each in addition to any other terrain when placing terrain.

Just a standard 3" - 4" diameter area that did 1 damage (or POW 10 or whatever) to anything that entered or ended activation, something like that. Could make it rough terrain also, but that might be overkill.

>>47575102
Ah shit i fail at basic reading comprehension. Vinter not Voyle. Anyway. Evidently Vinter was all about that armour aswell as being uber swordsman

MOW kovnik: worth fielding 2? thoughts

>>47574839
He did beat all their generals in one go.

>>47574962

The Mark 1 Metamorphos fluff with Vinter during Makeda's coup is something else though, and well-worth reading. I think he left Skorne out of sheer disappointed pique after killing the traitors, and he re-converted the Abyssal Fortress to his side just by seeing how he did it. Those warriors and Tyrants died with full and untroubled faith in the Reborn.

>>47575178

>tfw when in a battle between one man and a room packed full of death/pain-worshiping hobgoblins that think you blasphemed everything they believe in, the crowd starts out with rage and confidence, half-way through it turns to fear, and when it's down to a handful of survivors they're in pure awe.

>>47558934
I like these gals a lot. Especially considering that they are better than cygnar gunmages.

>>47575178

I will check it out, but blood of kings probably retconned it with This was the principle behind the Mail of the Grim King. When Vinter wore this armor in battle and shed sufficient blood, all his aches and pains, all the reminders of his mortality, quickly faded and were forgotten. Even severe injury could be ignored and recovered from swiftly. It did not make him invulnerable—several of its past wearers had died in battle—but it gave him fortitude beyond even the hardy trollkin. When he had marched through eastern Immoren, conquering one skorne village after another, toppling tyrants and dominars, he had never ceased, never allowed himself rest. Those around him had marveled, as they should have, but it was their own life’s blood, so eagerly offered in duel after
duel, that had sustained him.

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>>47574403
>I don't know much about Voyle but was he really that much of a badass? What could he so?

They showed his card once...

>>47575278
The best part about this card is how Convergence is capable of one rounding him.

>>47575260
they do some things better, but no free snipe kinda sucks. otoh, pair them with raiders and a skarre and it shouldn't be too hard to kill a caster in 1 round with feedback damage

>>47562710
implying kaelyssa needs an offensive spell when she has that gun of hers.

>>47575314

Well, if they hit him. Def 17 + Automiss Minifeat does make that hard.

>>47575314
Convergence fags legitimately need to die

>>47575314

Most armies can one-round him with some work. A dozen menoth zealots could blow him up with grenades and reasonable scatter rolls.

>>47563117
Bullshit.
They do know how to manufacture and use guns.
>The faction that makes rocket launchers and flamethrowers doesn't know how to make guns?
Why PP doesn't let Protectorate have more guns is another kettle of fish.

Nicia has a gun blade.
The Condemner is literally a cannon.

The same reasoning applies to why only Protectorate seems to know that Flail weapons are actually useful technology when opponents use shields.
Why the fuck other factions don't have at least one basic WJ with a flail is beyond potato.

I mean what happened? Cygnar "oh yeah we could give it a flail to get round those pesky shields - yeah but we prefer hammers that don' actually make any difference"

in khador it's pretty similar "why make flail to ignore shield, when we like axe which give no bonus?"

This is "Bretonnia doesn't use crossbows, because." stupidity all over again.
On the part of GW, that's plausible, but PP? that's sad.

>>47563225
yep. flamethrowers, rocket launchers, balistae, cannons, and gunblades...
But they don't know how to make rifles?

Yep. That's stupid.

>>47565604
>That's like saying 40K is only about tanks
Reality check m8.
40k is pretty much nothing but vehicles these days.

>>47567798
I think what he means is that sevvy does it better.

>>47575462


Mercs and convergence have chain weapon heavies

>>47575462
Perhaps its hard to power a meckanika chain weapon, so more advanced nations avoid it.

>>47574221
>I dunno, I'd say Storm Rager is a spell. Seeing as they can toss it on other people too.

I think it probably depends on the individual caster. Some clearly do more magic than others, and 'Storm Rager' clearly isn't the exact same spell on all warcasters, as multiple different dudes with completely different magical traditions are performing some form of it.

>>47573914
>He wasn't picked by as the personal champion of a god for no reason.

Consider: this just means he's the best Menite. Menoth isn't going to pick a Morrowan or an elf or whatever, and there's a bunch of non-warcasters just as nasty in CC as Vilmon.

>>47575546
Yes, exactly very few merc jacks have it, and convergence is the latest brand new faction...kinda like they were compensating for not using it before.

>>47575635
wait, wut?

>>47574464
>but I really wish they'd do more to show that Warcasters are not gods among men, that non-warcasters can be just as impressive

IIRC Haley almost gets murdered by a Manhunter at one point. And Narn has supposedly been soloing warcasters for as long as warcasters have been a thing.

I do wish there was more seen of non-warcasters, though. Some of the IK's most interesting characters are definitely not warcasters.

>>47575739
I'm not aware of a single mechanika chain weapon in the game (essentially a magic item that uses technology in addition to magic, like a stormglaive).
Although I've been wrong before

>>47575462

They can make guns. Using stuff other than guns, and irregular fighters in the form of zealots, and converted labor jacks, and lots of bribes is how they were able to make as formidable a fighting force as they have while not flagrantly breaking laws that prevented them from having an army.

>>47575277
That's how his armour has always worked, no retconning required. He utterly out-skilled the Skorne, though. I'm not sure he even got hit, or used the armour.

>>47574894
>Something about it or Vinter also lets him wield a great sword in a 1h fighting style so there's that too.

That's just the Iron Kingdoms being the Iron Kingdoms. Almost no magical or mechanikal sword in the setting can feasibly be wielded in one hand. Witchfire is one of the few magical weapons seemingly made for a mortal man to actually hold aloft without falling flat on their face.

Shit, according to his little fluff blurb, Thyron has enough weeby skill to draw that enormous sword of his and maneuver it around fast enough to cut individual bullets out of the air. Some characters in the IK are just too cool for skool, and not afraid to let everyone know.

>>47575841

Or rather, how they built a capable army without alerting all of Immoren about how prepared for a war they really were.

>>47575841
>>47575904
That's historically accurate. But that was before.
They could have guns now. They could have a variant daughter unit with pistols, or gunblades, and that would be kewl.