/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

>>47520183
I live on the edge. I never short rest. Always long rest. Even when the boss is in the next room.

Fuck bitches, get spell slots.

Hey, My group and I are playing though some 5e, and the big thing that keeps fucking up the dm is skill checks. He, and I as well, fell its very hard to assign some generic difficulty to most actions. What should the nature check should be to know the specifics on chimera attack patterns or resistance? For a generic Strength check, who much weight is stone that takes a dc 15 to move compared to a stone taking dc 25?

Anyway, I am just asking if anyone has any resources with good examples per use of a skill or ability check, or better yet some formulas, we can use for 5e.

>>47520555
DCs are as high as the story needs. If the players NEED to move the one ton stone to scape dying, the DC might be 15. If the players just want to move a random 50 pound boulder for no reason, then it might be DC25, because fuck fucking around.

DCs are just "how likely is the player to do a thing because plot" and fussing over exactitudes is just dumb. Of course, once a number has been assigned to a thing, it should stay that number on next visits, because consistency. Or maybe not.

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Does anybody know when there's a new book coming out? SCAG was very dissapointing and I'm yearning for a good chunk of new content (especially if it's another MM).

>>47520647
I am not opposed to that, probably do it myself if I was running, but my dm would want to eat his own face if he read that.

we are probably just going to need to make our own homebrew formula system that still respects 30 as a cap for things and the whole capped accuracy thing.

>>47520723
Poor retarded gms.

At most just go with "would it be easy, normal or hard for a commoner to do this? And use thw numbers as given by the book." The game doesn't need much more granularity than that.

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>>47520555
Some (broad) examples here, besides being a very handy DM resource

I'm looking into playing a paladin for an upcoming 5e group and was looking at all the available oaths, and I was wondering if anyone can give me some examples of characters that resemble an Oath of Ancients paladin? I'm kinda having a hard time coming up with how to RP a character like that.

Converting 3.5 characters for 5e. With no WBL, how do I determine starting gear, etc, for characters above level 1?

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>>47520938
DMG, pg. 38

>>47520963
Thanks much!

>>47520963
what do you spend 20,000 gp on in a setting that has little to no magic items for sale? Building a town?

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>>47520878
OoA pallies are people who loves all the good things in life and want to spread that to the people around them. They love the world and the people in it and want to protect that.

Devotion paladins are generally more about the greater good and establishing a kind of 'order'. Although both kinds of paladins want to make the world a better place and be a force of justice, I see those with the Oath of Devotion taking a more active role in trying to be an agent of change. Taking the Oath of the Ancients is more of a promise to defend what's good in the world and restore the light where it has darkened, but not necessarily impose some kind of strong order on top of that to enforce any one person's specific ideals of right and wrong.

Pic extremely related, I played an OoA paladin based on him and it was glorious.

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>>47521016
Hookers+blackjack

>>47521016
Fleet of battle ships and cargo ships. Hold naval routes hostage. Own the sea.

Basically world domination.

>>47520183
Hey guys, wanted to ask a question about necromancy, simple question, is there a necromancer class?

i only have the two core books and i didnt see it, i may have missed it. so i figured id come here first.

then next question, any tips on playing necromancer/mage, never played D&D, and was only in one game of pathfinder.

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Do you use any extra rules regarding the druids Wild Shape when starting out. Like a max number of animals they could have encountered before the campaign starts, or restriction to a certain habitat?

is there a chart of magic effect on items you guys can post. I'm noob

>>47520183
About to play some D&D5e soon with a random group but I hear the GM is a killer and likes to party wipe?
Is there anything I can do to avoid the eventual party wipe because the GM wants to throw impossible shit at us because he thinks its cool?
If there a broken class or shit I can use to avoid his shit or should I just bail and try to find another random group?

>>47521149
Me still, maybe it will help me out if i post what I'm going for. Im not sure if you can do it in D&D (I'm told its limiting) but i want to command minions to fight with, the more the merrier, could i do this?

Has there really been no "expansion book" with more classes and feats and such? Just a class archetype choice thing here or there?

Is there a handy compilation of them?

I'm considering pitching 5e for our next game and it seems all that is really out is the PHB except for setting/adventure stuff?

>>47521227
hmm, advice i can give,

1. drop the idea of creating something so strong the GM can't kill you, because for starters he's god, he can always kill you. And outplaying him will likely only upset him if he's childish, if he's not you still have to deal with the fact that he will kill you in the next fight if you survive.

2. talk to him, tell him that people do not enjoy this. my friend was a GM like this, he loved to exert his power over the players by killing them in impossible fights, he loved the power. so people stopped playing games with him, tell your GM to take it down a few notches, this isn't a murderfest its about the players overcoming challenges and feeling good for it.

If everyone in the group isn't having fun then find a new GM, if you're not having fun then find a new group

>>47521271
The mega-link is literally in the OP, broseph.

Sword Coast Adventurers Guide and Elemental Evil Player's Companion both have some new options for classes, races, spells and backgrounds.

Unearthed Arcana are basically playtesting documents that could potentially be unbalanced as hell, but they have a bunch of new stuff in them. You should check to see if your DM allows them, though - it's best to take it on a case by case basis.

>>47521331
Was looking at that, I'm just genuinely shocked there hasn't been a "PHB2" or some such.

>>47521234
You didn't read very carefully.
Look into wizard class, there is a necromancer school.
There is also a conjuration school if you want to be less edgy.

Outside of wizards, rangers and druids are pretty good at summoning beasts/fey to fight.

>>47521382
They have no staff and seem to be only capable of generating bad ideas. They have the DM's Guild to pick up the slack for them, but I imagine the bulk of that will be unbalanced garbage and people will just ignore it completely in their actual games.

>>47521294
Thanks anon I was just worried about playing the game since I am not the best combat character since I don't know 5e like the back of my hand and always have more fun just rping than rolling dice.
Ill just play it by ear and if it goes south quick ill bail but fuck it im desperate to play some tabletop since it is literally dead where I live and online is the only alternative.

>>47521429
That is sad.

I thought 5e did well enough they could have at least 2-3 developers and a few interns to put some stuff out.

>>47521294
I really dislike GM's that think every single fucking encounter needs to be deadly.

I don't understand getting your jollies from killing the PCs. When I GM I provide tough challenges, that I am hoping the PCs overcome. Party wipe is such a shitty ending to a story.

>>47521477
Well enough will never be enough to satisfy hasbro.

>>47521491
It's evolved from the old DM vs players mentality. Some DMs think they're in competition with the players and creating unbeatable challenges is "winning". They are not very concerned with telling stories to begin with.

>>47521492
Very true. What a mistake. I should stop by and complain next time I drive by! hehe

>>47520812
not him but 10/10 cheat sheet thanks anon

>>47521516
But that mentality makes no sense at all to me.
As a DM you are literally god of the world. Players are entirely limited in their power.
It's not even "winning" if you just place a ridiculously strong creature at the end of the first dungeon.

>>47521195
They only know the animals from their homelands. They need to meet any other animal in-game to be able to turn into one. Traveling druids are restricted to their latest location.

>>47521624
I suspect it's a product of 3.5, where players could make such mechanically broken characters any level appropriate challenge the DM could throw at them would be trivialized. Eventually DMs got bitter and competitive, leading to the offending mindset. Now it just continues out of tradition. People just think that's how D&D is.

>>47521624 cont
It would only make sense if as a DM you were somehow limited in your power. Such as only being allowed to bring forth creatures of a challenge rating equal to the party or something. Then I could understand "winning" against your PCs. But otherwise it's just fucking dumb.

I mean, I understand having that little bit of DM glee when your monster crits or whatever. But feeling glad when your PCs all wipe, I'll never understand (unless you want to stop DMing). One PC death might be "fun" as it can impose interesting changes to the campaign.

The only time I'd ever prep for an intentional TPK as a DM would be if the party was being idiots and rushing the BBEG at level 3, if I somehow made that possible. Or if they started murdering innocents in a village.

Checking out the non-PHB stuff from, the Sword Coast guide, does this all match up well balance-wise?

Purple Dragon Knight and Spellsinger both look pretty cool.

>>47520555
Something a lot of DMs get tripped up on is making too many checks.

If a task is possible for the party,
If there is plenty of time to attempt a task again and again,
If there is no INTERESTING consequence to failing,
Do not ask for a check. Look at the attempting players' stats and decide how quickly they succeed.

For example, the party wants to break open a wooden door in some ruins. This is well within their capabilities. It should be something like a DC 15, but individual characters will still fail this more than half a time unless they have Help. In reality, most people could kick a door open in one go. It might take two or three kicks in some cases, but that takes a few seconds, and players are going to see making three attempts and three rolls as a much more involved effort.

Is the party pressed for time? Are there monsters around who could be alerted by this noise if the party takes a minute to just kick this door? Are they going to get there in time to do anything about it, or is it more interesting that they interrupt the party's door-kicking than come upon them while the party's inside trying to loot shit? Does it not feel silly to you that your 17-20 Strength Barbarian can't beat half an inch of wooden doorframe despite routinely chopping goblins in half?

So the 10 Strength Wizard kicking the door might take a minute. The 14 Strength Cleric could get it in half that time. The 16 Strength Fighter gives it a good kick, hears wood splintering, and shoves it open. The 18 Strength Barbarian pops the whole thing in one go. No checks, everyone's happy.

>>47522249
Purple dragon knight is underpowered and bladesinger muscles in on eldritch knight's already feebly held turf.

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Is INT an unimportant stat, unless you're a wizard? I like playing intelligent characters, but it seems that, from a mechanical standpoint, investing in INT is a waste, except for a few skills.

>>47522375
Int is less important than it's ever been, both for mundane and magic-using classes. That's a good thing.

>>47522375
I feel like it is, unfortunately.
It's good to see through illusions and gain knowledge about the world. But otherwise, meh.

>>47522375
You are correct. INT is largely a dump stat for every class but wizard. Bizarre really how it's the only stat with only one class that needs it at all

>>47520878
I'm playing one at the moment and I'm basically just trying to do the right thing in the right situation. Also keep the balance. Extremes are never good. Just be a good person and find delight in the beauty of life. I really like my ancients Paladin. Just be a good person, that easy.

>>47522375
The decoupling of mental statistics' effect on general mechanics and character capability is one of the better design choices in 5E.

Mental stats directly limit your RP. If your group decides that only characters with X Int can come up with good plans or be "smart", or X Wis can stop making foolish decisions or be savvy, or X Cha can say something smooth, you're basically telling a large chunk of classes who get no mechanical benefit from those stats that they should not be able to talk and act a certain way, or should at least be less competent in their primary roles for having taken stats that let them be RPed as something other than dumb lunks. This is a lot different from telling a Wizard that he can't lift and throw orcs.

If you treat mental stats like the physical ones, by saying they only really have an effect on game mechanics, suddenly Intelligence turns from "how smart you are" to "how adept you are at a specific kind of arcane magic". It's Wizard Power. The effect it has on a few skills is negligible. And now no one feels awkward when the party Wizard is being played by the dumbest guy at the table and constantly has terrible ideas despite his 20+ Intelligence ass saying he should be leading entire armies or beating demigods at chess.

>>47522398
>That's a good thing
Elaborate

>>47522466
So you're saying I should dump INT too, and still RP my character as intelligent?

>>47522409
they should have made the warlock an INT caster to be quite perfectly honest

then you have two full casters per mental stat - bards and sorcerers for CHA, clerics and druids for WIS, wizards and warlocks for INT.

>>47522500
I think so too, int so they can remember how to do the shit their patrons taught them.
Proficient in int and cha saves though. I think that would be enough to encourage many of them to still use cha as their secondary stat.

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>>47522493
INT is just an abstraction of how efficient you are with your brainmush. You might be too impulsive, bad at taking advice or thinking shit through or whatever other character flaw you can up with for acting "dumb".

>>47520723
5 - just to make sure you don't fumble
10 - something you should be able to do trained or not
15 - something you should be able to do if you did train in it
20 - something difficult even with experience
25 - something whose story might get you laid if you spin it well enough
30 - a desperate measure that should be considered nearly impossible even for the greatest heroes in the world

>>47521016
By buying whatever the fuck you want. Does your character only care about slightly better equipment, or does ze want to run a business or run a militia?

Holy shit, where did all the jaded fucks suddenly appear from?

Next people will be complaining that Mastermind is utter shit despite basically giving advantage to rolls made within 30ft. The "beastmaster is unplayable" meme was bad enough to listen to without people constantly bitching that there isn't enough WotC stamped products for 5e.

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>>47522700
+5 is quite an expert bonus/proficiency for your average commmoner, and as such a trained elite will have only 50% to make a DC15 check.

Which is why I think your table severely underestimates difficulty. 25 is practically impossible for your average person, it's a nigh legendary feat only the baddest of asses can vanquish (with lucky rolls).

>>47522500
Totally agree. Only reason i can see is it woulda been too easy to multiclass between the two? Dunno.

High int low Wisdom would make perfect sense for ambitious character... with or without Charisma. And thats what a Warlock should be

>>47522466
But mental stats still give mechanical benefits. INT still dictates your knowledge skill, CHA still dictates your social savyness, and WIS still dictates...whatever it always dictated. So seeing good I guess. The only thing they've removed is INT's influence on skill points, since there are no skill points anymore. Your character's personality and many RP facets are still linked to stats.

>>47522782
This is /tg/.

Everyone's jaded. Every class is bad.
Nothing is balanced. Nothing is playable.

>>47522782
Those things are true though

>>47522948
But if nothing is playable, then everything would be balanced. Everyone is equally incompetent.

>>47522782
Beast master is a little shit, I agree.
Honestly a simple approach would be to fix it like this
>Action to give companion an order
>Companion will follow that order until complete, acting every turn at the end of your turn

>>47522863
Your rolling too often if you think this. 90% of tasks can just be done with enough time, and a passive score should be a good gauge for competency.

Rolling a d20 is for when there is something you are up against - there's not enough time, there's danger around the corner, you're on a boat swaying on waves, etc.

>>47522952
Why yes, it is true that there are jaded fucks bitching about things.

>>47523018
taking a 10 assumes you take your time to achieve a task. 10 for a commoner trained in a skill will not beat DC 15.

>>47523002
I agree with the following the order until take an action to change it. Like the companion attacks one creature until it's dead and you use an action to tell it to do something else.

I disagree with making the attacks magical or bumping HP - but I feel like the companion should be considered expendable and swapped for the situation anyways.

Even without the companion a ranger is more effective than a berserker barbarian.

>>47520812
This is great.

Is it official? I seem to remember some anon putting it together, but that might be something else.

Either way, I constructed a DM screen specifically for this, a while ago.

>>47523122
No, the official screens are all terrible

>>47523097
There is no taking 10 in 5e. But you're proving my point that you are rolling too often.

A trained NPC should have a +5 or higher in what they are skilled at. If your characters go to a healer the healer should be more competent than a level 1 PC.

>>47523110
berserker is another shit subclass though

>>47523002
Wouldn't it be too powerful? Thats essentially extra attack at lv3. Just wondering. Your fix seems intelligent.

What about the low amount of HP, the grave weakness to AoE, the absence of magic dmg? Would u do sth about it?

>>47523110
>but I feel like the companion should be considered expendable and swapped for the situation anyways.
Why? In what story have you seen a hero cycle through his companions like old socks?

>>47523156
Only because Frenzy hands out exhaustion levels, which are ridiculously crippling and hard to get rid of, and are not a mechanic directly faced by any other class.

Rework Frenzy and, though not the most exciting, Berserker can definitely pull its weight.

>>47523171
Well, notably, companions are smarter than the average animal, so following orders is a simple feat.
The idea of a Beastmaster isn't quite that you can chose which of two checkers you control at any given moment, but a competent fighter with an animal to attack the foe as well.

As for HP I don't know the specifics on how their hit points scale, but magic damage is simple enough for a not-braindead DM.
Give the companions the ability to get their own magical gear.
For example
>You find the tomb of a legendary falcon-hunting beastmaster
>in it you find magical war-claws for avian animal. Companions. Grants a +1.
Bam.

Rolled 14 + 3 (1d20 + 3)

I would like to burn down a house.

>>47523188
There's not a lot of stories involving animal companions in general, and most involve more than one already.

A ranger calling in the powers of the wild should be using the animal that applies to a situation and not just drag a pet along.

Personal tastes and w/e

>>47523194
How would you rework it? Frenzy uses up a rage? You can only frenzy an amount of times equal to your con mod?

>>47523266
Rangers can do that too though. Don't they get Summon Animals or whatever?

>>47523266
but that's what summon nature's ally is for

>>47523274
frenzy already uses up a rage though

>>47520183
Yo! I found a website called TableTopping that has premade 5e characters for all levels. We should add it to the pastebin since it's a great resource for players quickly jumping in and DM's who need quick NPC stats for encounters.

>>47523156
Berserker is a completely shit subclass, and it's the only crippling one. Even way of the four elements monks can take shirt tests to recover Ki. Beastmaster is more optimal than either.

>>47523303
How does one take a shirt test?

>>47523279
No, a summon is extremely temporary and not a companion.

>>47523274
>exhaustion is ignored while raging
>at x level, a barbarian removes two points of exhaustion after a long rest
>frenzy adds an attack to your attack action instead of using a bonus

>>47523326
almost like something designed to be swapped out to adapt to the situation at hand

>>47523327
>>47523274
>Frenzy exhaustion last 1 hour

>>47523339
Ok, you take your shitty bear into the ocean.

>>47523348
>berserkers recover one level of exhaustion during a short rest.

I'm in a campaign where we're advancing fairly quickly (GM fiat every other adventure rather than exp) and I'm running a ranged fighter.

I'm probably gonna go rogue past 11th for the added sneak attack damage, but would a one-level dip into barbarian be advisable for the unarmored AC feature?

>>47523368
You take your shitty self under the ocean too you dumbass.
Same concept, except it's a bear.
>not having a hawk companion

>>47523348
>Exhaustion can be resisted with a DC15 Con saving through once per exhaustion point per short rest

>>47523348
>>47523376
At that point it's pretty much consequence free. Might as well say they don't get exhausted

>>47523368
A wizard can grow gills, I'm sure I can magic my bear a set somehow

>>47523407
>takes two frenzied rages to get an exhaustion point

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>>47523266
>There's not a lot of stories involving animal companions in general, and most involve more than one already.

are you sure? it seems like a pretty common thing.

Speaking of short rests, have anyone on /tg/ ever used the slow or fast rest option on DMG? (pg. 267)
The book mentions that it usually make combat less/more often, but I'd like to know from someone with experience on it how often are we talking about. Also, how good or bad was the experience for the feel of "gritty realism" or "epic heroism".

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>>47523326
>>47523368
Stop making an idiot out of yourself, jesus christ.

>>47523263
You don't need a roll to do this.

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>>47523471
>thinking they're me
also
>capping that
holy fuck

>>47523399
>not having a shark companion
Fucking plebeians I swear

>>47523493
>not having a sharkbear companion
are you even beastmaster?

>>47523502
Gotta make that an elf then, cause I can see the breeding taking quite a while...

>>47522409
Mystic will need it

>>47523448
I usually have short rests be 15-30 minutes rather than an hour and long rests are just a night's sleep, but I've never personally used the specific variants. I think the main difference between the two is that 'epic heroism' would favour casters and high-magic settings, whereas 'gritty realism' would favour martials and low-magic.

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Improvising a weaponized halfling as a dart:

A Str1 character can throw a 0.25lbs. dart
0.25dartlbs / 1Str = 0.25dartlbs/Str

(0.25dartlbs/Str)*20Str = 5dartlbs
A Str20 character can throw a 5lbs. dart

Halflings weigh about 40 lbs, rapier weighs 2 lbs., studded leather weighs 13 lbs.
Cast Reduce on the halfing: weight is reduced to an eighth, size is halved, size category increments down one
>tiny (reduced) halfling-rapier-armor complex weighs about 6.875 lbs.

Necessary Characters:
Medium Variant Human (Str, Int; Tavern Brawler: Str)
>Rogue (Arcane Trickster): at Lvl8, choose Enlarge/Reduce
>Lvl1: Str17, Lvl4: Str19, Lvl 8: Str20

Small Lightfoot Halfing (+2Dex, +1Cha)
>Rogue (Swashbuckler)
>Lvl1: Dex17, Lvl4: Dex19, Lvl8: Dex20

Greatsword Paladin with Command and 20Str

Pre-combat buffs
>Human casts Mage Hand
>Human casts Reduce on Halfling

In-combat
>Human's turn, he throws Halfling as an improvised dart at the target (using strength modifier) to deal 4d6+1d4+5 damage
>Halfling deals 4d6+1d8+5 damage (Human's turn)
>Human runs adjacent to the target, draws rapier
>Halfling attacks on his turn for 4d6+1d8+5-1d4 damage
>Paladin gets into melee range with target
>Paladin casts Command (Flee) on the target
>on the target's turn, it provokes an opportunity attack from the Human, the Halfling, and the Paladin
>Human deals 4d6+1d8+5 damage
>Halfling deals 4d6+1d8+5-1d4 damage
>Paladin deals 2d6+3d8+5 damage

For a total of:
22d6+7d8-1d4+30 (mean 136) damage

>>47523539
This.
Being able to burn through all your shit as a sorcerer and being able to get a long rest as a short rest would be fucking nuts.

>>47523407
It would be a universal buff that way at least. Exhaustion doesn't come up that often and having 1 class that combats it head on makes sense.

On top of that it follows the 1/encounter design philosophy of the short rest. Frenzied rage is currently 1/long rest so 1/short rest is really not a problem.

>>47523601
>shitty DM
>tell him I feel useless in combat because my impact compared to the sorcerer is insignificant
>"don't worry, anon, she won't be so OP when there are multiple fights in a day; you'll get to shine then"
>we average maybe 1 fight every 3 days

>>47523502
>having a monstrosity as a companion
Your DM is a cuck

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>>47523502
>not having pic related as your animal companion

>>47523645
>not cucking your DM
what a cuck

>>47523439
>implying that wolf has an abnormal amount of HP.

>>47523674
damn son, time to homebrew some stats for aero sharks.

>>47523687
>being black
Nah, I'm good

>>47523707
>thinking you need to be black to cuck someone
cuck detected

What's the most cucked race in 5e?

>/5eg/ has come to this
I'm out, see you when summer's over

>tfw one of your gaming friends tells you clerics are his favorite class
>never have to worry about getting someone to play a heal bot again

>>47523724
>thinking anyone here using cuck means anything but their own fetish
I... Don't like it or anything... Baka

>>47523623
>Frenzied rage is currently 1/long rest
?
you can frenzy as many times as you can rage

I sure love not being able to play a viking berserker dual wielding axes effectively!

what a well designed game!

>>47523909
Why can't you?

>>47523964
Frenzy uses a bonus action, as does dual wielding. Taking a point of exhaustion to do what you already do is hilariously pointless

>>47523819
Right, but if you hit 3 you're fucked.

If you allow a short rest to recover one level of exhaustion the barbarian can still frenzy rage twice if they get hit by a hold person or whatever, but don't get hamstrung by a third encounter in a day.

>>47523909
So use one big ace instead.

Just because the subclass is called "berserker" doesn't mean your berserker Viking has to take it.

>>47523909
>>47523998
Well you could just go bear totem barbarian or champion fighter and role play a frenzied Viking.

>>47524045
>Just because the class is called barbarian doesn't mean your barbarian has to take it
>Just because the stat is called strength doesn't mean your strongman needs it
>just because the book is called player's handbook doesn't mean you have to read it
>Rules? Mechanics? Just RP everything. You're a rollplayer if you want otherwise.

>>47524102
>not taking an option purely because of its name
Autism

Berserker Barbarians are garbage, Totem is only viable option

Bard is the best class in the game

Clerics are clerics, all pretty much play the same

Druids have literally two play styles

Fighter - do you want to fall asleep at the table or not? Pick one

Monk - Do you want to be a ninja or not? Such options! You also have the ability to not gain any path features by picking Four Elements

Paladin - a fighter with more complicated resource management

Rogue - One interesting feature per archetype

Sorcerer - Be a dragon man or have your power determined by DM fiat

Warlocks lack viable melee options

Wizards are wizards

>>47524113
>Names shouldn't relate to their meanings

>>47523998
So what >>47524045 said. Use one big axe.
Or instead be a totem barbarian. Makes more sense anyway for a viking in my mind. The rage itself is basically "berserking" from a conceptual standpoint anyway.

I can agree that letting anyone make an offhanded attack anyway is a little silly. But it's whatever. At least with the frenzy, if you must take it, your bonus action attack gets your modifier in this case. So it's not the exact same thing. And you could go into a frenzy, make the two attacks now getting your modifier, even throw those motherfucking axes at someone, then take out your big axe and start slicing people.

Problem solved? I agree the exhaustion level sucks, but no one is forcing you to frenzy barb.

>>47524052
Or WotC could put some effort into their game design and/or replace their designers with people who are competent.

I've seen one man indie RPGs that tie rp/character concept to game mechanics so much better than 5e does.

>>47524179
But don't forget you actually are getting a benefit from using the frenzy as pointed out in >>47524159

Or you could keep spouting garbage.

>>47524159
I don't want to use one big axe, my character concept is using two fucking axes.

I can't even attack with two weapons on the turn I rage.

>>47524145
I agree with all except your fighter synopsis. Fighters can be very fun to play, unless you go champion. The extra ASI's allow for some interesting builds and BM and EK allow you to do some pretty cool things in combat.

Currently playing a goliath BM fighter and it's one of my favorite characters I've made to date.

>>47524196
>Any criticism of my favorite game is garbage!

Why the fuck would I choose to make two attacks with a 1d8 and 1d6 weapon (2 1d8s with the feat) when I can make two attacks with a 1d12 instead? Meanwhile that feat could have been spent on +2 STR or GWM if I'm a big axe guy.

The game is fucking broken and pigeonholes you into specific character concepts if you want to be competitive in combat.

>>47524201
>I can't even attack with two weapons on the turn I rage.
I see no problem with that.

>My character concept is using two fucking axes.
Okay, so do it then. Take beserker because you think you have to when barbs are basically all this anyway, the beserker is just extra angry.

Bonus action frenzy rage.
Take out your axe (or both of them if you take the dual wielding feat) and make one attack.
Next attack you can even recklessly attack to gain advantage.
Because you're frenzied now both of your attacks get your modifier. It's pretty dope.
5th level you get to do this three times.

>>47524247
I thought anon was implying there is only one option that does not result in you falling asleep at the table

>>47524267
>The game is fucking broken and pigeonholes you into specific character concepts if you want to be competitive in combat.

Well there's your problem, autismo. Your playing this game like you need to be top-tier DPR with any character concept you won't budge on.

5e is far from my favorite game, and has its many flaws, but you sound like an idiot.

>>47524298
dual wielding instead of going straight for GWM is already knocking you out of top tier DPR range. TWF is handicapped enough as is, it doesn't need more

>>47524298
It's fucking Dungeon and Dragons. Of course how well you kill dragons matters. If I wanted to play an rp game I'd play a game that actually facilitated rp (L5R, Burning Wheel, etc) instead of what I can only assume is a nostalgia game that only survives on brand recognition.

>>47524270
>I see no problem with that.

I suppose I should just roleplay that my character is competitive, right?

>Okay, so do it then. Take beserker because you think you have to when barbs are basically all this anyway, the beserker is just extra angry.

What is the fucking basis for the berserker trope if not vikings? Why should I be mechanically punished for playing a very well known medieval character concept?

>Bonus action frenzy rage.
>Take out your axe (or both of them if you take the dual wielding feat) and make one attack.
>Next attack you can even recklessly attack to gain advantage.
>Because you're frenzied now both of your attacks get your modifier. It's pretty dope.
5th level you get to do this three times.

I get literally no benefit from taking that feat other than the +1 AC if I'm a berserker, which I could have gotten from a Dex increase instead, which would have been much more useful and wouldn't have had the situational requirement of using two weapons.

Using one axe and taking the Dex increase is strictly better than using two and taking the DW feat as a berserker.

>>47524369
Quit bitching and play the hole you put yourself in holy shit.
Not every build needs to be optimal.

>>47524381
I love how playing a very well known medieval/fantasy trope is "putting yourself in a hole". Great game.

>>47524369
you're right, berserker is shit and should be revamped, that's not news. but it's not a big deal either. just play a totem barbarian, it's what everyone else does.

>>47524267
What do you want us to do? We can homebrew you a path that works better for duel wielding but you won't use it.

Play a different game. You don't like this one.

>>47524267
Or you could take variant human and take the feat for free. But lets do some number crunching, autistic people love numbers.

If you're curious though, assuming your str at level 3 is 16 (+3) and you get the +2 rage damage mod per hit, here's what you're looking at assuming both attacks land.

avg/deviation
>2d12 + 10
23.00 / 4.88
>2d8 + 10
19.00 / 3.24
>a difference of 4 on average, lower deviation (well duh)

And how about this
>2d8 + 3 (assuming no rage, no mod added to bonus offhand)
12.00 / 3.24
Without rage you average about 7 less. Pretty significant.
But how about rage no frenzy?
>2d8 + 5
14.00 / 3.24

Let's see it with str 20 (+5) and max level rage damage (+4) and no feats.
Assume we make 3 attacks and they all land.
>3d12 + 15 + 12
46.50 / 5.98
>3d6 + 15 + 12
37.50 / 2.96
A bit more significant, I admit.
Let's take the free feat then.
>3d8 + 15 + 12
40.50 / 3.97

So yep, you're right. There is a difference. But who would have thought. A sub-optimal fighting style (using two axes) would do less than using a BIG FUCKING AXE. Honestly, I expected it to have a much bigger gap without feats.

But your build is not even close to being unplayable like you want to pretend it is.
>waaaahhh I want to play this concept
>waaaahhh it's not the highest optimized for DPR
So play something else
>waaaaahhhh no I shouldn't have to, everything should be the same!!
That's fucking boring.

Don't forget if you use hand axes you can throw them, which is something someone with a big axe doesn't normally get to do. Strap like 8 axes to your outfit and start chucking them. Seems pretty rad to me.

>>47524369
>What is the fucking basis for the berserker trope if not vikings? Why should I be mechanically punished for playing a very well known medieval character concept?
You're not. You're getting punished because for some reason you NEED to dual wield axes. Dual wielding, which (and I could be wrong), has never been a good combat tactic at any point in history.

>>47524369
So you hate dungeons and dragons? You hate 5e?
What's your point? Beserkers are bad? They're not the best, but they're not the worst. Dual wielding beserkers are bad? Okay.

Guys, I want to play a full wizard that is also a master bowman. What do you mean I only get to attack once per turn with my bow? Fuck this game. It's broken. REEEEEEEEEEEE.jpg

>>47524551
>Dual wielding, which (and I could be wrong), has never been a good combat tactic at any point in history.

neither has running into battle without clothes but that doesn't stop the barbarian. it's not a big deal but there's really no reason the berserker shouldn't accomodate dual wielding.

>>47524551
>Dual wielding, which (and I could be wrong), has never been a good combat tactic at any point in history.
It's always done to up the coolness factor, never to really give anyone any sort of advantage. So I guess 5e did something right.

>>47524433
That's not your argument.

You can play a two weapon wielding berserker, you can even optimize as a different type of barbarian and do perfectly well.

You are relentlessly bitching that a berserker must be a two axe wielding Viking, and the fact that WotC didn't design the berserker to be a TWF viking makes the entire game shit.

>>47524456
I'm actually in the process of doing that at the moment, call it path of the reaver

>>47524659
Dual wielding is great for any class that boost damage, but isn't something that can just work without any planning

Paladins get more chances to land that smite, Rangers get more d6s or d8s on the hit, rage bonus damage is boosted, etc.

My house rule is that the TWF feat adds 1d10 to the offhand damage if an attack from the main hand lands.

>>47524657
It accommodates it just fine. I still fail to see how getting the extra +mod +rage damage isn't a benefit and is the same as someone not raging.
>neither has running into battle without clothes
Not wearing armor lets you move faster and dodge better. It's reasonable to expect it as a benefit. I don't understand what reasonable benefit you should expect from dual wielding small axes compared to one big fucking axe other than throwing them.

If you really want, homebrew something that says "if dual wielding you can take TWO extra attacks as a bonus action." Congratulations. The thing about tabletop is that you can change the rules if you don't like them.

>>47524711
>path of the reaver
But that's not called beserker so I can't use it.

>>47524551
>using two axes isn't viable
>wearing no armor is completely viable
>punching heavily armored people with bare fists is completely viable
>everyone not using spears is completely viable

it's a fucking highly abstracted fantasy roleplaying game. it isn't Riddle of Steel.

>>47524616
No, imagine if you wanted to play an ice mage but all of the ice spells did significantly less damage than the fire spells.

>>47524692
>You can play a two weapon wielding berserker, you can even optimize as a different type of barbarian and do perfectly well.

There is literally no advantage to playing a two weapon berserker versus just using one, and taking the feat as one is actually a trap option.

>>47524765
>Why are you complaining about the ranger being garbage? You can ackshully just play a fighter and take the scout path from unearthed arcana! Just because it's called ranger doesn't mean that your ranger character has to use that class!

>>47524728
Sounds good to me.
When I DM my personal go-to is just have a player come across some loot that gives them a boost in combat effectiveness. That way no one cries about breaking anything, they just think their party member happened upon some sweet loot that makes them better at what they do.

WHY are you guys the most triggerable general thread of all time. I swear to god every time someone comes in here looking to get a rise out of you, you guys respond for hours. just stop!

Do you see this?>>47524765
>>path of the reaver
>But that's not called beserker so I can't use it.
WHY do you respond so seriously to a guy who says shit like this.

Just S T O P !

>>47524808
Because they know that the game is bad and that they shouldn't have to houserule everything to get a functional and enjoyable game (lord knows there are tons of other rpgs where you don't have to do this)

>>47524808
>WHY do you respond so seriously to a guy who says shit like this.
That was me, I was making fun of him.

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>>47524145
>Rogue - One interesting feature per archetype

Arcane Trickster confirmed the Jack-of-all-Rogue-Archetypes

Thief's main things: Fast Hands (3rd lvl) and Supreme Sneak (9th lvl)
Arcane Trickster:
>Mage Hand Legerdemain (3rd lvl) to do everything Fast Hands can do from a distance
>Haste (14th lvl) for doubled movement speed, +2AC, advantage on saving throws, and an additional action each turn - all for 10 turns (while concentration is maintained)

Swashbuckler's main things: Fancy Footwork (3rd lvl) and Rakish Audacity (3rd lvl) (let's do Elegant Maneuver (13th lvl) as well)
Arcane Trickster:
>Take the mobile feat just like basically every other rogue does (1st or 4th lvl)
>Find Familiar (3rd lvl), choose flying snake; every turn, have the snake fly adjacent to your target, use the help action, and fly away for free Sneak Attack (with advantage)
>Haste (14th lvl) as above, you get advantage on dex saves for 10 turns

Mastermind's main things: Master of Tactics (3rd lvl) and Misdirection (13th lvl)
Arcane Trickster:
>Find Familiar (3rd lvl), flying snake; your familiar can use the help action for anyone within 55 feet of it once per round without using any of your actions
>Shield (8th lvl if you take FF at 3rd) grants +5AC until your next turn as a reaction to being hit by an attack (admittedly, the Trickster loses to the Mastermind here)

>>47524808
I also don't know why /5eg/ is so prone to thinking they're talking to one guy.

>>47524841

Assassin's main things: Assassinate (3rd lvl) and Death Strike (17th level)
Arcane Trickster:
>Sleep spell (3rd lvl) autocrits on the targets you put to sleep (admittedly this doesn't work very well for higher level encounters - sleep dice cast at: 1st level - 5d8 (mean 22.5HP worth of sleep), 2nd level - 7d8(mean 31.5HP worth of sleep), 3rd - 9d8(mean 40.5HP worth of sleep), 4th - 11d8(mean 49.5HP worth of sleep))
>Bestow Curse (14th lvl or 20th lvl if you wish to take Haste instead) to incur a Wisdom saving throw as opposed to Death Strike's con saving throw; on a fail, choose the "do nothing" curse - the creature makes a wisdom saving throw at the start of each turn and on a fail it wastes it action by doing nothing - combine this with Find Familiar Help action and you get up to 10 turns of free sneak attack safe from damage which can hold up to a single turn of quadruple sneak attack safe from damage

>>47524799
Oh my god you shitfaced baboon.
Just ask your DM if there is a way he can make 2w Berserker more viable
Have the second axe add to skill checks to some degree.
Make it so when you're raging your offhand does even more extra damage.
Make it have some kind of advantage against shielded enemies.

>Ice mages
They get abilities to roleplay shit differently. You don't see people bitching about how ice ball isn't just fireball but cold

>>47524841
yeah swashbuckler actually looks interesting and is a good example of a well designed archetype

I'm sure they had a freelancer write it

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Can someone critique the mechanics of this homebrew Paladin Oath I've worked up? It's very specific to our game/setting and current party composition. The player understands that this may be rebalanced if it proves to be too strong.

Our Paladin wanted to find a deity and didn't like the oaths, so I'm introducing a disguised Cambion that he can pledge himself to. I know the story parts are rough, as the campaign moves towards this it will be updated.

>>47524863
>just make up your own rules! who needs a functional rule system anyway? I just bought the books for the really inspired settings and lore :^)

>>47524863
>Have the second axe add to skill checks to some degree.
lolwut. How does that even make sense?
Just give him an extra attack with frenzy. That's what it was designed to do so just make it work that way

Why are duids considered one of the best classes?

>>47524889
Well apparently you don't like the goddamn rules on how your autistic shitfit isn't actually all it's cut out to be.

You're having a fucking fit over the fact that you can't be kickass TV Ragnar Lothbrok and even though people have explained for the last TWO FUCKING HOURS about alternatives you just kick your feet and scream about "IT ISN'T THE SAME IT ISN'T THE SAME FIX IT FIX IT SHIT SYSTEM" instead of just moving to a different goddamn system holy fuck.
There are WAYS to get what you want.
You're just choosing not to accept any of them.

Also, rule zero has ALWAYS been a thing.
Just tell your DM your issue and you can house rule something.

>>47524920
>Use two axes to get a better grip on a ledge if you fall off
>climbing axes
>Disarming
>weapon breaking

Off the top of my head these are a few ways of working dual wielding axes into skill checks

>>47524799
Here's the last (You) I'm gonna give you.
>using two axes isn't viable
It is, nigger. Numbers confirm viability. You aren't competing on a global scale against all builds all at once. It's okay to be less than top-tier.

>No, imagine if you wanted to play an ice mage but all of the ice spells did significantly less damage than the fire spells.
Good thing they don't, I played an ice mage a week ago for a one off and got every kill. A "poison" mage, well that might be another story.

>There is literally no advantage to playing a two weapon berserker versus just using one, and taking the feat as one is actually a trap option.
It's hardly a trap if you really want to do it for the sake of fleshing out that character concept. Stop playing a stat sheet.

>>Why are you complaining about the ranger being garbage? You can ackshully just play a fighter and take the scout path from unearthed arcana! Just because it's called ranger doesn't mean that your ranger character has to use that class!
The ranger is probably one of the worst choices, yep. But if you wanted to be a ranger, then I'd tell you to be a ranger. Just like you should be a barb with two axes if THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.

I'm convinced you're autistic, or "just pretending to be retarded." Whether you hate 5e or not doesn't bother me. I think it's fun. And in my opinion, it's one of the hardest editions to really fuck up your character irredeemably without trying to do so on purpose. Go play something else, you clearly don't like this game for the single most retarded reason I've ever heard.

>>47524872
Your oath tenets sounds very similar to vengeance paladins

Your channel divinity breaks the pattern of having one turn undead/fiend/fey/etc option

Aura of Wrath seems like it might be overpowered, and the wording "half an additional damage die" is unclear and confusing

>>47524983
axes aren't good for any of those things though. and weapon breaking isn't even a thing in 5e

>>47525035
A bearded axe absolutely would be good for several of those things.
And hacking up a wooden polearm would be a simple feat with one axe holding the head and the other taking a swing at the shaft.

Am I able to cast spells at higher spell slots even if they don't have any added benefits. Example: playing a wizard and I'm out of level 1 spell slots. Can I cast Mage Armor with a level 2 slot even though I wouldn't gain anything extra?

>>47525051
Good question, I would imagine you could only cast spells that specifically say you can cast them at higher levels. But I'm not 100% sure, sticking around to see the answer to this.

>>47525051
I'd say no reason not to
But I don't have any proof, sorry

>>47525051
>>47525070
You can cast any spell in any slot higher than it's own, but but get any benefit if it doesn't say you do.

Being able to scale all spells was one of the major design philosophies in 5e, then they forgot to scale half the spellbook.

>>47525051
PHB pg 201.

"When a character casts a spell, he or she expends a slot of that spell's level or higher, effectively "filling" a slot with the spell."

I'm so glad I was born without the special gift of autism.

Playing a valor bard arcane archer for my next character. Looking forward to fun times ahead.

>>47525110
but that's a pretty autistic build

>>47525110

What does that have to do with autism?

>>47524808
I stopped responding a long while ago personally. It's obvious bezerker guy is a troll. I'm just watching this thread burn to the ground while waiting for my laundry to get done.

It's almost sad how In depth character concept and campaign concept discussions get so little attention while trolls hook half the thread every time.

>>47525129
Simple, straightforward single-class build that only requires a feat and stealing 2 spells > Overly complex mathomancy that only ends up making sense with a weird reading of the rules

>>47525013
It is very similar to vengeance, just with a bit of different flavor.

The Channel Divinity is a good point. I tried to replace it with something to slow enemies while balancing it. I can't think of something a lesser fiend could realistically turn.

With the Aura, I meant that you roll an additional weapon dice and halve the total. So, if your weapon deals 1d8 slashing damage, you would roll a 1d8 and halve the amount, rounded up.

I added that because without it, it seemed lackluster. If it proves to be overpowered, I'll probably nerf it. The characters are only level 2 right now.

>>47525129
He's making a general insult to everyone posting here

>>47525145
>I'm not intelligent enough to come up with a build that does anything outside of what is explicitly stated in the guidebook
>a-anyone who is is an autistic nerd who uses stupid stupid math

>>47524952
moon druids are, to my understanding, considered as one of the best classes specifically around levels 2, 10, and 20, due to wildshape, which give them two uses to gain stat blocks more powerful than regular PCs

an important aspect of why it's so good is that their HP in true form and wildshape form are separate. a level 2 moon druid could be at 15/20 HP, wildshape into a 34/34 HP brown bear, get knocked to 0 and returned to 15/20 HP, wildshape again into a 34/34 HP brown bear, get knocked to 0 and returned to 15/20HP.

to add to that, it's only a bonus action to wildshape, the two uses get returned on a short or long rest, they can concentrate on spells while wildshaped, their attacks in wildshape count as magical (from level 6), they can cast spells while wildshaped (from level 18), and they can wildshape endlessly (from level 20) -- they can wildshape into a 126 HP 17 AC earth elemental that can cast spells, get knocked to 0 and return to their true form at full health... then wildshape into a full health earth elemental again

>>47525121
I'm mostly looking forward to dimension door and shooting arrows at people from far off. We also do lots of non-combat stuff, and bards are fun for that.

>>47525169
That wasn't me senpai.
>>47525153
It was more of an insult to ax guy.

>>47525145
for your next character, may i recommend the fighter class with the champion archetype, and a non-variant human as your race? if you hate any sort of creativity and complexity, and are bad at maths and strategising/theorycrafting, then i think it's the perfect character for you

>>47525145
bard class itself only makes sense through a weird reading of the rules.
>can poach spells of equal level from any class
>can poach 5th lvl paladin/ranger spells at 10th lvl
>7 lvls before paladins/rangers have access to them
And it so happens a valor bard arcane archer is a chief culprit in this bizarre spell poaching.
It also gets an extra attack, just because
Oh and expertise, because.
And jack of all trades to initiative. Because.

Bards are autism - the class.

>>47525239
Elemental Weapons is a level 3 spell from a class that doesn't have a level 7 slot but rules for level 7 slots. The devs clearly expected Bard players to potentially use Magical Secrets to grab it.

>>47525239
That's a pretty straight forward reading of the rules to be honest.

>>47525110
Sounds solid. You gonna go lore bard to get some of the spells you need faster or you going to go valor so you can get proficiency with longbow and extra attack at level 6?

>>47520878
One of my players is playing as an Oath of the Crown paladin, and he's enjoying it immensely as it's the easiest way to play a medieval, chivalrous knight. All of the spells that he uses are easily fluffed as not being magic, and smiting is just hitting stuff really hard.

I also have a soft spot for Oath of the Crown, as it's the easiest one to represent serving an Athasian sorcerer-king for when Dark Sun is finally released.

>>47525254
As straight forward as any multiclass, which is "overly complex mathomancy"

>>47525265
Never mind I missed that you said valor bard.

>>47525239
>And jack of all trades to initiative. Because.
let's see
>Jack of All Trades
>Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus.
plus
>Initiative
>Initiative determines the order of turns during combat. When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same time.
so jack of all trades adds half your prof. to ability checks that don't use your prof., while initiate is plainly stated as a dexterity check.

how is this even remotely a "weird reading"?

>>47525286
>comparing a core class feature
>to an optional rule that minmaxers abuse mainly as a holdover from muh 3.5

>tfw trying to put together a mesmer style Cha caster and both the lock and bard spell lists have holes
Either time to beg my DM or to be happy with a Bard w/ Misty Step at level 10

>>47525309
The core class feature is more abusable than the optional rule. You'll more likely fuck yourself over multiclassing than gain any significant advantages. Just play bard and laugh at rangers, it's more satisfying.

>>47525265
I settled on valor because I wanted to play up the bowman side more. Only thing is that I'd love to poof around battlefield early with misty step which would be possible with lore, but you can't have it all.

>>47525337
Why is misty step so perfect, brother?
I feel you homes.

>>47525337
You could be Eladrin

>>47525401
Warlock would be perfect for what I want if it had a one or two more high level illusions.

been more than 6 months since i last asked:

did they do psionic beyond that pile of shit in UA yet?

>>47525888
Psionics and the mystic, take two

It's pretty much playable

>>47525971
which book

>>47525974
Still UA
Don't expect it as an official class before Darksun, same for Artificer and Eberron.

>>47525971
nevermind i'm retarded.

thanks

>>47525987
>Don't expect it as an official class before Darksun, same for Artificer and Eberron.
Why the fuck would they do this when psionics was popular when they fixed it back in XPH?

WOTC is retards.

>>47522911
>Only reason i can see is it woulda been too easy to multiclass between the two

And instead they made it really easy to multiclass Sorcerer, giving them easy access to the horror that is metamagic-fuelled sorlocks.

>>47526009
Because the release cycles for 5e are slower, for various reasons

Either way, psionics are more of a dark sun thing, which is why it will probably be released then

Who knows, maybe the player's handbook 2 will be focused on both eberron and dark sun

>>47526094
>psionics are more of a dark sun thing
not really.

is PHB2 the next book they're doing or when can i expect dark sun or eberron?

>>47523303
>Berserker is the only crippling subclass

Clearly you've never played with a Wild Mage.

>>47526123
We don't know yet, but the last survey suggested a PHB2, "the first major expansion to D&D 5th edition"

>>47526156
guess i'll check back on this in another 6 months then.

Still building a potential warlock; what do people think of starting as Bard 1 or Thief 1 and then switching to Lock?

How would you handle it as a DM if I stated from the get go that the plan was to go feylock immediately after?

>>47526146
Berserker and wild mage are actually alright, as is beastmaster with a beast HP fix

>>47524829
thats cool it doesnt matter because your post was the same as his posts, just more succinct.

>>47526183
I would do my best to have you die at level 1 and offered a bargain by an archfey to live on with new powers, in exchange for... a few favors here and there *teehee*

Or something else more to your liking, I dunno

>>47526235
Honestly "archfey comes to save your ass and you're the only player dumb enough to take up the deal" sounds like a neat pact start.

>>47521666
This mentality has been around since the earliest days of d&D. HAve you never heard of the Tomb of Horrors?

>>47526393
It's not, AD&D was "death is cheap, just reroll", threeaboo

>>47526393
ToH isn't really the standard to measure by though

>>47526426
>threeaboo
opinion discarded. try using 3 instead "three" next time so you don't bypass my filter.

>>47526249
I like making pacts fun, one of my players right now is a GOOlock that got his powers when his archaeologist parents found a skull belonging to a hivemind race from the far realms and gave it to him, the queen whispers instructions to him on how to become more and more powerful, which thanks to the terror track rules of ravenloft I adapted also slowly transform him into a horrible monster

>>47522466
Or you could add incentives for having mental stats without penalizing characters without high mental stats. For the 3.X homebrew I'm making there are actions characters can take which are influenced by a mental stat plus their base attack bonuses.

Things like gauging difficulty, anticipating an opponent's actions, or goading opponents into specifically targeting them in combat. Find ways to reward players for making non-standard choices, rather than simply removing depth from character creation.

>>47525439
Maybe if you played a fey warlock you could get your DM to homebrew allowing a couple different illusion spells into your warlock builds. Fey warlocks are all about illusion and charms anyway. If I were the DM I would probably allow it, depending on the spells.

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>>47522965
>and if everything is playable...
>NOTHING will be

>>47526550
To be fair the problem with "mental stats limit your rp" has always been that most nerds have a hugely overinflated idea of how smart they are, think roleplaying Int 8-10 is literally roleplaying a mouthbreathing vegetable, and the more rules lawiery among them could argue until pigs fly that Intelligence is the only mental stat you need to be persuasive or perceptive.

You want to see a rl example of high int low cha and how persuasive they are? Take Democritus, whose theory of atoms took over 2000 years to become accepted science.

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>>47526621

>>47526550
>For the 3.X homebrew I'm makin
opinion discarded

What does /5eg/ think of this for a pure Fiend Pact Warlock?

>PC whose hometown gets attacked
>PC calls out for help and attracts the attention of an ancient immortal fiend who wants to become human
>Fluff-wise, the Warlock's leveling up is her and her patron exchanging parts of their souls into each other's bodies, so the Fiend is becoming a mortal and the warlock is turning into a devil without knowing.

2edgy? Boring? Kind-of-okay?

>>47526702
That works.
In 1E Charon was a lower planes entity, and there's some legends (even post christian ones in Europe) where the slightly-less-divine version of old pagan psychopomps are still seen as a more fair patron than god, jesus or other church figures because death goes for everyone.

I'm working on some homebrew stuff and I want an opinion on which Rouge Archetype to make.

Close quarters/hand-to-hand combat type.
or
Confidence artist type

>>47526677
Honestly, I think an 8 int is a regular guy, maybe one who doesn't like books and such and therefore is not knowledgeable of the world around him other than what he has experienced firsthand because he focuses on other things, think the average NFL player, they are really good at the sport stuff and savvy enough to execute a strategy but I doubt many of them would be able to tell you what a conifer is or how you simplify a polynomial

Think high school degree, that's how I see it

8- HS
10- Associate's
12- Associate's with certifications
14- Bachelor's
16- Master's
18- Doctorate
20- Post-Doc

>>47526693
What if I told you that I'm stripping out all the classes, spells, feats, and equipment to rebuild from the ground up.

>>47522500
>>47522564
Yeah, Warlocks aren't pulling magic power out of their own butts anymore or persuading better deals from their patron. They are signing a contract and then being thrown a book that says HOW TO WARLOCK, and it's up to them to figure that shit out. What does personality have to do with it?

>>47526850
You do you famalam, but it certainly doesn't entice me

Not about to re-learn 3.pf

>>47526881
That's fair. I'll never finish anyways.

>>47526850
Then I would ask you why you aren't using a system designed for that kind of customization

>>47526920
Don't be discouraged anon, you should take a better look at 5e, you sound like you could contribute some great homebrew

>>47524841
Arcane Trickster:
>Versatile Trickster is completely redundant with Find Familiar and eats up your entire action economy
>Haste: casting Mage Hand takes a turn, Haste takes a turn, now it's round 3 and the fight is basically over
>Spellthief: ends up being one counterspell by the time you get it because your spell slots are stuck in 3rd level. You could have been a Wizard.
>Legerdemain: too slow to use in combat, and out of combat trap removal can just be free-formed now.


Meanwhile
Thief:
Supreme Sneak is effectively at-will Invisibility, since Invisibility only gives you Advantage on Stealth and concealment that a Minor Illusion or environment give for free
Thief's Reflexes is better than Haste since it also gives an extra sneak attack, it's automatic every fight and doesn't take a turn to cast, and it doesn't grant a Con save like Assassin
Use Magic Device gives you access to higher magic than the Arcane Trickster who can't use anything advanced.

Ritual Caster and/or Magic Initiate give you everything AT offers except possibly a good Arcana check for removing high level magic traps. So you might as well be a Thief or Swashbuckler and have features that aren't redundant AND use your spells with a Cha stat that's 4 times more useful than Int.

Arcane Trickster: basically the archetype who spends three times the effort to be one-fourth as good as a Bard or Warlock. Even the Ranger is so much better at the whole sneaky spellcaster role.

>>47522934
>>47522469
Int also lost the necessity to have 1X in order to cast Xth level spells.

The mechanical effects of Int should be all there is to begin with, and that's how it is now. It improves your spellcasting DCs the same way Str or Dex improves your AB. It gives you bonuses to a handful of skills the same way the physical stats do, too. Everything else is just a barrier to RP which further empowers certain classes to be better at social encounters or puzzles because they're the ones that ALSO gain combat-usable mechanical benefits to having those stats.

10 Intelligence has been considered "average" in D&D for a while. Well, the average person is stupid. The average person in medieval Dirtlandia is even dumber. Even the people who play D&D are dumb, because they view one or two points down from this stupid average as "too retarded to speak properly". So everyone's been playing over their character's real intelligence forever, except for the characters who actually have high scores, in which case they've been playing under it.

If your Int score worked like your Str score, you, the player, wouldn't have to come up with plans yourself. You would roll some die and tell the DM you got a 19 and your Int mod is +4, and he'd just tell you that your characters need to put the random items they found around the dungeon, including that innocuous bar they left on the ground back in the prison area, into these slots on the wall and pull them in a certain order. You already see some puzzles being solved like this, but that's because they involve concepts that you can't really make players do at the table (try grinding the game to a halt while someone plays fucking Lights Out with little scraps of paper that you've shaded on one side in order to open the wizard's tower) and would be ridiculous even if you could because the guy playing the wizard is probably not the one who'll solve it first and it seems silly that Grok the Barbarian got it.

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>>47527045
I know 5e. I'm using a lot of its ideas in this homebrew since 3.x and 5e blend well. And for the record, I made pic related and a halfbreed race for /5eg/.
>>47526948
I like the wealth of options for 3.x that I can cherry-pick for design examples. Monsters can be converted with minimal effort. Base attack bonus is key, since I'm using a dark souls-inspired stamina system for actions which uses BaB as a framework.

>>47527106
And the same way you might roll some die to see if an NPC is lying to the party, you'd be rolling Intelligence die to put together disparate elements of the evil cultists' plan without having to think about them yourself. Characters with Int/Wis and good rolls would basically be plot distillers for the table. The PHB actually already includes a suggestion that making a Wisdom check could be used to give the party a general idea of what to do next, so look how close we're getting to this already.

So, I think it's best to treat Intelligence, largely, as "Wizard Power". It also helps you remember things (at least, when you, the player cannot) and have read more books somehow, but no one really wants to serve as Knowledge Arbiter and start smacking around 10 Int Fighters who know that vampires are weak to sunlight without having made a check. The same goes for "Cleric/Druid Power and General Observation" and "Paladin/Warlock/Sorcerer/Bard Power and Persuasion".

Cha's actually the worst, as someone else pointed out, because you can succeed outright or get huge modifiers to checks just by being persuasive yourself, as the player, and stating your dialogue in a convincing way. When a Bard is trying to seduce that princess, how specific do you get when you ask how he goes about this? Do you need all of his lines? Are you having a full back-and-forth and playing this out? Are you phoning up a female friend and asking, "Hey, if a midget dressed like a fucking clown said this to you, how hot would that make you on a scale of 1-10?" Probably not. You also run into problems with every high Cha character who should be oozing magnetism but is either just a boring guy or a hugely abrasive jackass.

Mental stats shouldn't be treated as a hard barrier to your character's background, skills, and personality. Should you play a literal genius with 10 Int? Probably not. But no one should give you shit if you're aiming a bit lower. It's not like it lets you shoot fireballs.

>>47527106
>It gives you bonuses to a handful of skills the same way the physical stats do, too.
STR gives a bonus to one skill, CON gives nothing
Skills are heavily weighted towards mental stats

>>47527106
>The average person in medieval Dirtlandia is even dumber.
It's less that they were dumb and more that they were uneducated, or educated by a system riddled with inaccurate or inaccessible records and a church agenda.

The amount of details to keep track of in order to properly run a dirt farm is pretty high. Farmers need to wear like 5 different hats depending on what they grow or raise.

Nowadays people conflate technological infrastructure with their own intelligence even though they aren't personally involved with making that technology run. Of course modern people have more things to do than get drunk so that increases the average intellectual up-time, slightly.

>>47527290
The thing about CHA is that there is a bias toward beautiful people naturally in social situations, and some people do have animal magnetism (my best friend is an uggo and can say some stupid shit but 90% of chicks find him fucking irresistible)

CHA literally means how good-looking, confident and/or naturally magnetic you are, not how good your lines are

>>47527290
>every high Cha character who should be oozing magnetism but is either just a boring guy or a hugely abrasive jackass.
Charisma isn't likeability, it's force of personality. A jackass is as high CHA as a diplomat because people pay attention when both of them speak. Look at Trump.

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>>47527378
strength makes you better at the "break things with or without a weapon" skill

>>47527412
And just about everyone in the developed world has years and years and years of compulsory schooling, yet we still churn out complete dodos. It must be even worse in D&D.

Besides, that farmer doesn't need Intelligence to run his farm. He took Farming as a skill, he gets his proficiency to it, he's covered. It's a Wis skill, anyway.

>>47527442
So it's two skills now. How versatile

>>47521016
3.5 faggot spotted

>>47527467
also uh... in...intimidation sometimes maybe

>>47521195
Ask them, dumbass.

"What animals are you wanting to Wild Shape into at 1st level? Do you have information on their forms?"

Use your fucking brain, kid.

>>47521034
the only right answer

>>47527476
Nope, halfling bards are the most terrifying people on the planet

>>47527510
Still not sure why intimidating folks has to be a charisma skill in dnd.

>>47527440
>>47527436
All the mental stats are a billion fucking things. The power source of all those Charisma classes functions completely differently, but they all key off the same stat. People have been spinning their fucking wheels since AD&D trying to explain how Charisma does this for one class and that for another and isn't technically physical attractiveness that transcends race and gender but oh yeah in this case it is but we'll ignore that and it's not really likeability either anyhow here are some races that absolutely ooze this quality so we're also going to ignore that because we've decided they need -2 Charisma just to round out our stats here and don't think too hard about how "force of personality" doesn't apply to dwarves, they're just unlikeable, but wait I know we said it's not really likeability but it kind of is in this one instance but if you want to play your high Charisma Sorcerer as an asshole no one likes we're not going to stop you but uh how fucking dare you be a cute Barbarian oh and while we're back on the whole physical attractiveness thing we're specifically talking about the face region because it turns out the ladies really like hunks but all the hunks have Cha as a dump stat and we never bothered to make a table that gives you modifiers to seduction or intimidation rolls if you're built like a bronzed Adonis and are flexing with your shirt off sorry them's the breaks.

It's dumb. If we had a box and asked everyone to secretly write down what Charisma is and isn't, and put it in the box, barely anyone would fucking agree with each other. It probably won't even happen in this thread despite everyone being able to see what other people have already written.

I don't know why, but I'm very enamoured of that picture.

>>47527557
because physical stats are for useless fighters who play the game wrong

>>47527596
is this copypasta?

>>47527624
I hope not, because they seem really offended by this and I want that to be genuine

>>47526872
That's pretty much only tomelock desu; bladelock is much less of a book wizard, and the chainlock is definitely very personally tied to the patron.

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>>47527596
>but uh how fucking dare you be a cute Barbarian
Thaneborn barbs were high charisma in 4e. Bunch of sexy motherfuckers they were

>>47527596
>High Cha sorcerer who is an unlikable asshole
Talleyrand with magic, basically. You have a man who served, betrayed and survived half a dozen regimes and still stayed on top purely as a diplomancer. Men like Kissinger fap to Talleyrand.

>>47527596
Personally I think there's more contention over what wisdom is

>>47527674
Yeah, and if Charisma did literally anything for Fighters and Barbarians in combat or let them do things that the sexy-ass Paladin or Sorcerer couldn't OUT of combat, I'm sure you might see a few of them try it.

>>47527739
Wisdom is fucked up, because your senses and your rationalization are two completely separate things.

At least, attractiveness, animal magnetism and personality are somewhat related.

>>47527739
>your wisdom is 8 so you can't not stick your hand in the obvious trap

>>47527463
>And just about everyone in the developed world has years and years and years of compulsory schooling, yet we still churn out complete dodos.
It only takes years because it needs to take kids out of everyone's hair First 8 years are building up Cha/Wis behavioral skills. I also blame certain agendas for keeping everyone hobbled by the slowest mentally damaged or emotionally abused kid but that's just me.

But most of all I blame the fucking drugs. That's -6 Int right there.

>playing 5e

not like the game was designed by a fucking potato or anything

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/04/27/monk-darts/

>>47527842
The vague rules are mostly meant to be ruled on by the DM, like older editions were meant to be. There's also a lot of easily inferred RAI which 3aboo buildomancers ignore because they prefer to think the text (their obtuse reading of it that is) is sacred writ that can only be interpreted one way, which isn't how text works.

D&D and rpgs in general are and have always been postmodern chess :p

>>47527785
But it did. Thaneborns were all about being intimidating, frightening and commanding.
>>47527793
You know I don't think there's actually anything in the game that supports it being tied to rationalization. People just associate it with that because that's what the word means.

>>47527842
I dont understand your point?

>>47527868
>But it did.
I was talking about in 5E.

>>47527867
How can darts not being on the monk weapon list be "inferred" or "interpreted" as anything other than them not being a monk weapon?

>>47527934
Doesn't BM have abilities that cue off of Cha?

Also if it wasn't for the fact that it makes Wizard the only Int class, I'd be perfectly happy tying EK and AT casting to Charisma.

And then I'd remove Int as a vestigial stat that has no point being left in the game when book learning is already covered by the profs themselves

>>47527949
My favorite part of reading their twitter and UA articles is when they pretend that they didn't horribly fuck up with the ranger and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the class

>>47527949
All simple weapons are monk weapons.

>>47527987
That's why they never pitched ambuscade, right?

>>47527868
>Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom. Every creature has a Wisdom score.
That's 3X. Intuition, common sense, willpower. What do your senses have to do with not being afraid of a spooky ghost? What does having good eyesight have to do with good gut feelings? Do deaf people learn to not put their hand on the hot stovetop slower than the rest of us?

5E's dropped some of that, but what the fuck does being good at wrapping wounds have to do with being perceptive? Are you getting all of this medical knowledge out of being slightly more perceptive to debris in the wounds or merely having a better bedside manner because Wisdom-as-perception also makes you not just notice, but be more sensitive to peoples' widdle feewings?

>>47527991
"short swords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property"

nope

>>47528039
All simple weapons are monk weapons.

>>47522466

>>Dumped his Int and still trying to rp smart

>>47527971
No. Battlemasters gain proficiencies, can examine and determine statistics about creatures, and scare enemies solely by having good muscles when they hit them (Menacing Blow checking Str or Dex). No Cha involved.

Despite being able to analyze creatures normally being Wis-related and proficiencies being Int-based in past editions, neither use for the BM cares about any stat, let alone those specific ones.

>>47523538

When it finally comes out sure and it will add more things to have a worthwhile Int save against but until then its kinda borked

>>47528058
"short swords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property"

nope

>>47528018
>but be more sensitive to peoples' widdle feewings?
I always assumed that was part of it, yes. It was supposed to be intuition, faith, or a "sixth sense" about things. It's why clerics and druids run off of it.
>>47527971
No, INT needs more features relevant to it. EK and ATs keying off it is fine

>>47528070
Search in 3e was Int, so there was precedent for at least one perception skill being there.

Before that Perception was just a subset of Wisdom rolls. Also proficiencies being Int was dumb anyway because it made Wizard a better skill monkey than some of the skill monkey classes even before accounting for spells.

>>47528096
I like Int being useless outside of a minor boost to knowledge-type skills and book casters.

A bit like IQ irl

>>47528070
The rally maneuver keys off CHA. I believe that's what he meant.

>>47528058
>>47528039
Monks can use all simple weapons but only get the benefits of martial arts if they are wielding a shortsword or a simple melee weapon.

>a halfling can use a 10 lb. greatclub without any issues, but the 6 lb. greatsword is "too unwieldy" as denoted by Heavy
>wood is less dense than metal
>greatclubs must be much larger than greatswords
>not unwieldy despite even more weight
for what purpose

>>47528088
All simple weapons are monk weapons. Otherwise, it excludes classic monk weapons like the kanabo. Hell, the current set already excludes shit like naginatas.

D&D monks are dumb.

>>47528188
The naginata being an asian weapon doesn't make it a monk weapon; the martial arts monk is expressly a fighting peasant, the naginata is an aristocratic weapon used by japanese fighters.

>>47528136
Oh.

Its existence aside, literally no one takes Rally. Even Paladins and Bards who take Martial Adept wouldn't want Rally. Purple Dragon Knights, the one archetype you'd think would get the most out of it, doesn't have a single use despite also having ally-buffing inspirations.

>>47528188
Greatclub is a simple weapon.
It's two-handed, though, so it can't be a Monk weapon.
Thus there is a simple weapon that is not a Monk weapon. "All simple weapons are monk weapons" is inaccurate.

>>47528229
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei#Weapons_and_dress

>>47528232
Bards basically have something like rally as a class feature, Bard and Paladin have its effects replicable by a level 1 spell that's exclusive to them.

>>47528232
I took it on my BM because we lacked a healer in the group. It can be pretty useful if you don't roll poorly.

>>47528159
Swords need more accuracy to use effectively
You can just flail the club wildly and it works fine but if you try that with a sword it won't work

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>>47527596
>oh and while we're back on the whole physical attractiveness thing we're specifically talking about the face region because it turns out the ladies really like hunks but all the hunks have Cha as a dump stat

>>47528159
The weapons table in 5e is fucking ridiculous and needs to be completely replaced badly.

>>47528288
If you see a cute hunk IRL, all that means is that God wasn't using point buys that day and the guy's mom lied about her rolls.
>yeah i dunno god i just got four 18s isn't that weird well you know it was bound to happen sooner or later ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

>>47528278
So it's unwieldy for small creatures because they can't rotate their wrists.
Got it.

>>47528288
It's also dumb, just being a hunk doesn't make you attractive to women. It depends highly on attitude and personality, while most women tend to go for men who are on the agile end of the athletic scale, bodybuilders are pretty much a fetish for both sexes.

>>47526816
Someone's level of intelligence is independent of their level of education though

>>47528288
God, for real.
Seriously, watch this guy's interviews sometime. It's amazing how difficult it is for him to articulate ANYTHING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dlyCTswYH0

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>>47528229
The D&D monk is a monastery trained martial fighter, which makes it rather bizarre they can't use martial weapons like irl monastery trained monks

>>47528340
That isn't what I said
It's easier to just try and whack someone with a big stick than slash at them with a big sword even if the stick is a couple pounds heavier

>>47528188
A kanabo would be a great club or a mace.
Either way, both the naginata and the kenbo are samurai weapons

With the exception of long chain syle weapons (Which I admit are something 5e is saddly lacking), I can not think of a monk style weapon that could not be reclassified as any of these

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>>47528429
forgot my pic

>>47528413
No, it's what you meant without realizing it.
Ensuring that the cutting edge of your blade impacts an enemy or you experience the least amount of air resistance when swinging is determined by the angle of the blade. You change the angle by rotating the sword. With your wrists.

Please tell me you get it now and I don't have to tell you to take a knife into the bathroom.

>>47528383
Because fighting with weapons is not the monk's thing! hu hu hu!

>>47528468
Alright, I get what you're saying
It's a fair point

>>47528288

>>Mah Somatic Charisma

>>47528542
It's Kinetic Charisma, philistine swine

>>47528088
All simple weapons are monk weapons.

>>47528760
Read pic in >>47528446

>>47528792
Lies.

>>47528760
"short swords and any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property"

nope

What's the best class for playing a foppish fuck with a rapier who spends just as much time fighting dudes as slashing down chandeliers, calling names, and making an ass out if the enemy?

>>47528846
Really dude?

>>47528846
Swashbuckler rogue.

>>47528846
Swashbuckler
Valor Bard
Both have Rapier, Acrobatics and key off Charisma

Blade Pact Archfey warlock with the entertainer background, slightly less so.

>>47528846
Battlemaster Fighter.

>>47528900
My only issue with BM in that request is that it doesn't feel foppish enough. You're still a beefy class at the end of the day.

OTOH it probably works.

>>47528932
You can be as foppish as you want but none of your Rogue-ing or Bard-ing lets you knock fuckers on their ass, boot them halfway across the room, or scare them witless with your mad stabs. You gotta back up your sass.

>>47528932
Go dex then

>>47528950
College of Swords (but muh UA) is basically Valor Bard as BM
Swashbuckler has Panache.

But true, Dex/Cha BM with the right skills and background can probably be so.

>>47528950
Honestly scaring people doesn't feel very "honorable jackass rapier duelist".
Like tripping someone onto their ass, and leaving them reeling would be more of the MO than stabbing their guts out.
I asked for the rapier guy because my little brother wants to DM an adventure for my dad and I, and I'm not gonna go all rip and tear on a twelve year old.

>>47529038
>tfw Cyrano just spends most of the duel in Act I casting Vicious Mockery, rolling Performance checks, and using his Defensive Duelist reactions

>>47528812
Troll

>>47528825
Don't feed that troll anymore.

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>tfw your qt druid drinks from a mug without using the handle.

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Here's the updated version of the Path of the Giant I posted in the last thread.

>>47529204
She's the worst character

>>47529216
Remove the 10th and 14th level extras you put into the 3rd level ability and you're good

>>47529301
I agree, the only time she's good is when shes playing with Grog.

>>47529301
>worst character
Nah man, everyone brings something to the table, even the powergamer

Grog > Vax > Scanlin > Vex > Percy > Pike > Tiberius > Kelith

Tiberius would be higher except I think he brings the most amount of combative autism to the table, hes the only one that like argues with party members and the DM when they have a decision or just want to drop a dispute.

>>47529381
The powergamer is ironically the best character.
Scanlan is trash.