EDH/Commander general

Suggestions?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/animar-edge-of-maybe-too-good/

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/doran-toughness-tribal-1/

I know both mana bases could use work, mainly Doran. My group is one of those that lean more towards casual competitiveness, so we try not to get too tuned.

Thoughts on either?

>>47452143
>>47452143
I tested your Doran deck against my Zirilan deck last night and it beat my ass 2 out of 3 times, looked good to me

>>47452212
Wow thanks anon, means a lot. Any comments you have about the defenders? Lack of board wipes? Can I see your list?

If we are gonna do posting of all commanders again, please do the leave a penny-take a penny thing and leave a rating when you do. Last thread there were like 12 pics posted and not a single reply.

Anyway, anyone got some jank they want to show off?

>>47452143
Looking quickly through Doran I think you have an excessive amount of creatures. You should cut several of the more vanilla ones in favor of some card advantage to make sure you don't run out of gas in longer games. Also Souls of the Faultless.

>>47452290
Your list got Doran out on T3 both times so that was a big factor. My deck basically runs no defense because Zirilan is so busy tutoring Dragons and blitzing with them

That said, 41 creatures is a fucking lot. Zirilan has 30. Like >>4745251 said, dropping some vanilla ones for value would be a good move

>>47452143
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/doran-toughness-tribal-1/
Any reason why no Slagwurm Armor?

>>47452514
>>47452634
Thanks a ton anons! Last few games I've played with it some of the things like timber protector, boss banneret, woodborn behemoth and moldgraf monstrosity don't feel to great. I'll start looking around for some cool spells.

>>47452679
Just felt like it didn't do enough. The equip cost being 3 doesn't help it much, but I do see how it can do edge of the divinity's job better and apply to any creature. I'll have to test it out sometime.

>>47452750
Deadwood treefolk is probably a good swap for moldygraf.

I really want to make a treehugger deck, but as far as color combinations go, I already have an abzan and it seems too much of a hassle to build another manabase of those colours. What do I do? Doran and Sapling seem to be the only usable ones.

>>47452290
Here's my list if you're interested, it's kinda bad and meant to be fun for a low-power meta

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dragon-linebacker-blitz/

The thing either completely eats shit and dies or goes off beatifully and kills the table within 3-4 turns of getting Zirilan out

>>47453174
Just do mono green stuff like Lost in the Woods and Kalonian Twingrove. Plenty of different generals to choose.

>>47453233
Very nice! Only suggestion i have is maybe hellkite tyrant since he can tutor up another dragon like utvara hellkite which seems like the prime kill condition. Granted you have your commander to tutor but its an option when he isnt.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-goyim-know/
Also, I agree that Doran needs more card draw. Don't be afraid to use black cards that cost life since Doran is so defensively powerful.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mimeoplasm-infectious-mill/

Made some changes since I last posted it here. Thought about getting mesmeric orb for it but I dont know if that would hurt this deck more than help it.

>>47453432
Imperial hellkite*
Forgot the name

>>47453498
>>47453432
Oh that's a neat idea, I'll try it

>>47453476
I'm building a mimeoplasm deck too and there were a few things I like about your deck, and a few things I didn't. My first draft I went with the infect subtheme and I found that the weaker infect creatures aren't really worth it. Sure, you buried alive into ghoul tree and blighted agent in your graveyard and swing for the game t5, but what about some of the niftier infect creatures? My personal favorites are spinebiter and phryexian hivelord. Spinebiter lets you swing for the game regardless of blockers, despite having a high mana cost and being a generally mediocre creature, whereas the hivelord can setup a fucktillion 1/1 infect insects. I like your removal package and will probably take it. Just another quick recomendation, mycoloth is amazing with the mimeoplasm and fathom mage is another secret tech. Personally I run master biomancer, a kalonian hydra, and a shitload of +1/+1 counter love, but your deck looks very good in general.

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>tfw you and the Jhoira player end up in a race between resolving a Jin-Gitaxias and Kozilek 1.0 from suspend and killing Jhoira outright
>Other two players are newbies with precons who offer no help and see you as the bigger threat

God that was some stressful shit

>>47453476
Jesus, the Lazav player in my group can never discover this card

>>47454258
>mill is good
Nice meme.

>>47454293
Last game we played he milled Ulamog 1.0, then dropped Aqueous Form and Tainted Strike on him and proceeded to win handily

>>47454293
This allows self mill and powers delve.

>>47454258
I actually have a question about Lazav: let's say you have a Soulflayer out with a whole bunch of those keywords on it from Delving a bunch of creatures, and it dies. If Lazav copies it, does it also get those keywords that the Soulflayer had?

>>47453417
I know, I had Kamahl druids and treefolk at one point, but monogreen seems so boring. Kamahl is auto include pretty much, but only monocolours that have stuck with me, are black and blue. I just dislike regular beatdown if it's too linear or straightforward.
I'm looking for a deck that is interesting enough so I don't feel like scrapping the thing after 1 or 2 games.
Besides, I don't wanna fold to one or few cards, so I would like to have other colour to back me up.
Where as my monoblack (Skittles) is usually too fast so many disruption falls really short, and monoblue (Memnarch) just is able to usually push through for all the stealing he does.
I just don't want to feel helpless, like if I were to play red/black and have enchantress against me.

So how do I make this deck better?

My goal was to make eldrazi battleships viable using a weaker Urza Tron.

It gets things out consistently on turn 4

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/battleships-1/

>>47454549
Lemme see that Skittles list, I've wanted to build mono-black for a while but I play too much aggro to consider anything but turbo-speed

>>47454499
I think not. Lazav isn't the same creature, and nothing was delved with Lazav. So it's just a vanilla 4/4.

>>47454618
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/infect-and-masochism/
It's been a while since I updated it, and the deck has a few cards which aren't there in the physical deck, such as Elbrus. I think I put a Hero's Downfall in it's spot.

>>47454554
>EDH general

>3 Players in my group run Mono-Black control
>Sick of Mono-BlackExsaguigate.dec winning every game
>Rebuild Daretti in order to shit all over their lack of removal for artifacts
>Next week one player makes Mono-Blue with nothing but counters, all of which were aimed exclusively at my commander
>Forced to run hard locks and Smokestack to even score a win against my group (we made a rule not to run boring locks after That Guy made Stasis Teferi at our LGS)
>Once again doing so paints me as the Archenemy

I just want to win a game among my friends that doesn't result in a collective sigh, whilst also simulataneously destroying their Mono-Black lists for being so repetitive and dull.

>>47454927
Pappa Purph.

>>47454927
>Next week one player makes Mono-Blue with nothing but counters, all of which were aimed exclusively at my commander
Is this the That Guy you refer to? Because that's biblical levels of salt

Build Gahiji and make them beat the shit out of each other

>>47454948
Purph is pretty repetitive and dull too. A spellslinger deck might work?

>>47455031
Nah, That Guy was an obnoxious mouthbreather from our old LGS who we all hated. He's moved now but occasionally shows up at the new LGS down the road for Modern FNMs (only format he plays now).

This guy usually plays Olivia, which is basically Mono-Black + LD, though I didn't include his deck in the three I mentioned.

Gahiji sounds fun, but any attempt at politics is seen as scheming in my group. We're quite untrusting of each other, just me more-so because my playstyle is pretty much suicide style decks.

>>47454927
Spoiler alert, the solution is finding a better playgroup. These people sound genuinely awful.

>>47455157
I second this, with the corollary that anon also sounds like a sack of dicks.

>>47455125
Try Mizzix, senpai. She's pretty damn powerful.

>>47454499
This guy >>47454651 has it right.
For the same reason that you cant delve a soulflayer with a new soulflayer to get all of its keyword abilities, when it is the the gy it doesn't have em anymore.

>>47455132
>any attempt at politics is seen as scheming in my group
Your group sounds like a bunch of losers who hate talking to other people

>>47455157
>>47455175
>>47455293
We've known each other for a while, we used to be far more Spike-y than we are now, so we know we're not the sort to help each other out. When someone tries to play 'bro' we know it's because they've got an Iona or something similar waiting behind that Selvala.

All of these grievances stay in-game, because we're all actually really good friends out of it. We just like to act like complete faggots in EDH then joke about it over pizza later on. I just wouldn't mind being the one cracking the jokes for once instead of being the guy who got shat on in the first ten minutes, because literally everyone else is packing Heroes Downfall or top-decking it at the last second.

I might try Riku again or something.

>>47455132
Maybe sigarda enchantress? Lots of fun effects in those colors that can help against wraths, which will be their main counter measure against you. Its pretty linear but it could work

>>47453464
First off, this is hilarious.
Custodian of the Trove and Burden of Greed both seem pretty bad, I would swap them out for better removal but it's tough to stay on theme there.
In terms of creatures, I think Preacher might be an interesting fit for your sub-theme of taking control of opponents' creatures. You could also shore up that theme a little bit with sacrifice outlets, maybe Vampiric Rites. Attrition could also be a one-two sac outlet that would help your removal game. Barter in Blood would fit the theme, at least in name, and getting people to sacrifice creatures can be helpful.

>>47453464
10/10 flavor

But where are Mind Control and Corrupted Conscience?

>>47453464
>no Godless Shrine

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tfw when debuting Ruric-Thar on your predominately control based playgroup.

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>>47452510
Jank you say!

>>47455698
Hanna isn't jank! She's a classy lady!

I just wish I could build her with an even mix of artifacts and enchantments. It is hard.

>>47452290
It's a waste to not have boardwipes in Doran, as there are several very special ones based on power. fell the mighty, retribution of the meek, elspeth sun's champion all fuck up high power creatures,and will usually leave you largely untouched.

>>47455955
Im sure a coulpe of those could find there way in. Issue i have is, (Havent looked too close at it) most my high toughness creatures also have fairly high power as well. Most the exceptions that come to mind are walls.

So I have a shortlist of board wipes that can go into 8.5 Tails: Divine Reckoning, Tragic Arrogance, and Akroma's Vengeance. I know I'm missing some possible inclusions: suggestions?

>>47455433
Enchantress is always something I've been fond of, I can't believe I've not considered Sigarda before especially considering she counters Grave Pact hard.

Does the deck function well without Moat?

>>47456177
Rout?

>>47455653
>xenagos on the field, my friend has a whole bunch of untapped islands and a shit-eating grin
>worldly tutor Ruric-Thar, play him, swing
>next turn drop asceticism

>>47456177
austere command, wrath of god, and >>47456428

>>47456428
>>47456504
7cmc for instant speed doesn't really make the cut for me. Divine Reckoning recurs itself and leaves you some board presence, Tragic Arrogance is broader in terms of what it hits and lets you choose, and Akroma's Vengeance turns into a draw if you don't need a wipe.

Austere Command may be worth considering for the flexibility.

>>47456561
if its in edh, 7 cmc isnt bad for an instant speed. if not rout, get angel of the dire hour for the same cmc

>>47456561
Since you like flexibility, what about descend upon the sinful? Best case scenario, board wipe with a built in +1 field advantage. Worst case? Exile board wipe. 6cmc for a sorcery is a lot, but it does have built in utility.

>>47456304
I personally have no experience with it, but I'd imagine its not the end of the world. Theres other pillowfort goodness to go around in those colors. Plus some of the best fatties in MBC have flying, so it wouldn't be super great in you play group if their list is anything like mine.

>>47452143
Wow, that Behind the Scenes is amazing. Never would have thought about it.
Also I like Necrogenesis better than Nightsoil.

What happens if you use Arcane Lighthouse's second ability to make your opponents' stuff lose hexproof, then drop a Reality Acid on a formerly hexproof creature, then pass the turn? Would Reality Acid fall off?

>>47456561
All Is Dust

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looking to build a deck with this guy that mainly focuses on ramp and land beatdown, any tips?

>>47456780
no, hexproof is not protection

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http://deckstats.net/deck-10178077-bc14816fd835de7697ab93da57683617.html

I need some help/advice on trimming this deck down to 99, and any other additions that might be good.

Degenerate EDH dickholes, Winter Orb will be errata'd to work as it used to.

Fuck me. As though the card isn't infuriating enough.

>>47456833
>Winter Orb will be errata'd to work as it used to
what

Source?

>>47456836
I assume anon means this:
http://mythicspoiler.com/ema/cards/winterorb.html

>>47456771
Night soil has the exile as part of the activation cost, so i can always out speed someone trying to recur a thing i their yard since its already exiled ans soon as i tap my mana for it.

But yeah behind the scenes is super dope. Wish i could take credit but a friend recommended it.

>>47456850
Forgive my ignorance but I don't see much of a difference

>>47456883
No problem.
Way back in the day, when artifacts weren't even considered "spells", they also "turned off" when tapped - meaning their effects didn't apply if you could forcibly tap them.

Winter Orb's current Oracle text is "Players can't untap more than one land during their untap steps."
and the reprint's text is "As long as Winter Orb is untapped, players can't untap more than one land during their untap steps."

Tolsimir newfag again. Still trying to figure out what kind of deck I'm trying to make, but I've got a few cards I 100% know that I want in here.

>Avacyn's Pilgrim
>Beastcaller Savant
>Dryad Militant
>Fleecemane Lion
>Fyndhorn Elves
>Odric, Master Tactician
>Selesnya Sagittars
>Selesnya Sanctuary
>Shield of the Oversoul
>Sunblade Elf
>Watchwolf
>Wilt-Leaf Liege
>Yeva, Nature's Herald

I don't really know where to go with this beyond goodstuff, especially since I know very little about the format. Right now it's just 'cards that I like'.

>>47456883
Here is a simple example, I control a Losestone Myr. I play Winter Orb, my opponents can only untap one land. Before my turn, I tap my Winter Orb using Lodestone Myr's ability. During my turn, I untap everything. Including Winter Orb.

>collected magic cards for the past 3 years
>have a lot of neat singles, but nothing cohesive
>looking to make an edh deck to play with some semi-competitive friends
Any suggestions on fun commanders to build around? I was going to make a Xenagos deck, but a friend in my playgroup is already running one. I'm horribly uncreative, and tappedout seems prohibitive to look up decks, I just want to play something cheap and maybe a little flashy. I'll play just about anything as long as it's made generally with cards in the last few years.

>>47456923
Oh alright, I guess that clears it up. Explains Howling Mine's current wording too, I had always wondered about that

God that's gonna jack a lot of stuff up

>>47456833
Welp, gonna have to save up for that Candelabra of Tawnos

>>47457000
http://edhrec.com/

What is your favorite color/color combination?

>>47457078
Don't. Mono artifacts always had to tap to work. Continuous artifacts didn't get errata'd, but all mono ones did.

Poly all became triggered, all mono became tap, but continuous didn't get any changes. Now continuous might, but Poly won't.

>>47457088
Oh neat, let me take a peak at that. I'm a little all over the place. In general I like artifacts, and I have a lot of good green cards, but my favorite colour combination is probably red and black.

http://deckstats.net/deck-10178158-60d9e9f2288de81a8aecb953c3fd493d.html

Thoughts? It's esentially just the precon Meren deck but with all the janky shit taken out and good stuff put in. The mana curve, card distribution, and mana distribution are almost identical to the precon.

The reason I built it was because i'm new to commander and magic kinda of (decade long break) and after buying the precon/trading at my lgs/using what I already had in my collection the deck ending up costing only like $75.

I play test it for the first time tomorrow at fnm, It also my first time playing magic in over a decade. Wish me luck.

>>47453990
Bad threat assessment is the worst

What were you playing?

>>47457214
Precons always go heavy on the lands, so you can drop some of those and put in some mana rocks/dorks.

What purpose does Urborg serve in your deck?

>>47456807
I built my deck like a Jarad shell but with more ramp. dredge and reanimator stuff work well, and mazirek is a fucking house.

>>47456812
Anyone?

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Is there any way to make sire of insanity viable? What's the best way to implement it? I was thinking pulling it from the graveyard on an early turn and hopefully people don't top deck removal before it makes them sad.

>>47457411
Well, it makes people sad instantly unless they already have removal or counters in their hands when he comes in.
That said, I don't think making a strategy around a single non-General card is a good idea for EDH since it very well might end up perma-exiled at some point.

>>47454927
play kataki stax

>>47457262
Zirilan of the Claw, with the greatest 4 turns I have ever had in my life. I kept a 1-land hand just because of all the crazy shit I had in hand and was really banking on drawing into lands, which I did

He cast Jhoira, made a bunch of mana early (partially my fault), suspended both of them and then dropped Clockspinning, copied it 2 times THEN paid Buyback so that they'd hit the table within 2 turns of getting suspended. Jin-Git would hit first

I killed him the turn after Jin-Git hit the table, but before Kozilek. While getting blitzed on by 1/1 Goblins from all sides. I didn't even care. I was so fucking focused on keeping Kozilek from hitting the table that I didn't care about eating like 24 damage. I ended up losing but I did not want to lose to that bullshit

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I'm trying to put together a fun UR Melek spellslinger deck. I'm pretty happy with what I have now, but I figured I could run it past you guys and see if anyone has some suggestions
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-03-16-izzet-edh/

>>47457364

To help with mana fixing in case I need to hardcast some of my mono black fatties.

>>47457462
I was thinking about making a R/B Mogis artifact discard deck and using him in the 99. He would work nicely with a waste not. I was mostly wondering whether discard is a viable approach to slowing particularly fast decks with low mana curves.

>>47457564
riddle of lightning, turn/burn, and master of the way don't excite me. Have you considered mind's desire, merchant scroll, or time spiral?

>>47457411
Not sure if its what your looking for, but otherworldly atlas? You control the draw so only you get full advantage of the cards. Opponents can only play things they could at instant speed otherwise they lose it due to sire's effect.

>>47457654
I'd love to run merchant scroll and time spiral, but they're a bit pricey for the time being.

I considered mind's desire, but I wasn't sure if more rng would be desirable at that point.

Day's undoing is in there as a budget time spiral and I threw in riddle of lightning because I thought it would be a decent burn and topdeck manipulator when multicasted.

Master of the way is a bit of a meme card in my play group, I threw it in there for giggles but I'd be willing to trade it out for something better.

Turn and burn is totally expendable.

>>47457739
merchant scroll is like $1.50

>>47457766
Whoops, I was thinking of scroll rack.
Yeah, merchant scroll would do it, more fetch would be nice.

>>47457739
Scroll Rack is the expensive one, you might be thinking of that

>>47457715
>otherworld atlas
That's pretty neat as well. I was thinking about splashing in things like windfall and whispering madness to cause all sorts of havok. Maybe a Jin-Gitaxias and just run some sort of Sedris mutual mill beatdown. Marchesa looks neat as well, but I usually win through consistent economy rather than big swings in damage.

>>47454927
Play yisan, he will shit on them and can be put together for a very competitive list 1000 but cheaper can be around 300

>>47455698
Is that single sleeved?

>>47457818
Maybe. By remember, in a deck like that your creatures dont have to be super great or swing since your opponents shouldn't have any at all if things go to plan. A discard plan will help with that but you might want a couple wrath or gravest like effects to deal with what's already on the field when you start to lock it down.

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>>47457948
How do you generally build a removal package for a grixis deck? I haven't really played a control deck before and I'm trying to make something spicy, which is why I thought Sedris would help facilitate an off-colour playstyle. Ixidron and Massacre Worm seem amazing in the 99 but I'm not sure what else would be extra awesome.

Not a commander specific question but what is your LGS trade in value like?

Mine gives half of whatever TCG player mid price is cash or store credit which I find kind of weird that they don't give like a 10%-15% bonus for store credit.

>>47458098
Really depends how far you take the strategy, and that will dictate the removal you run. If it's more of UBx good stuff then it will lean a bit more towards being a typical 'control' style and thus things like damnation, dread cacodemon or curse of swine might be better. Build more aggresive to utilize sedris more and grave pact or attrition might make more sense. Just spit balling because I've never built anything close to grixis unless you count mono black.

As far as red goes, blasphemous act and chain lightning seem like auto includes along with chaos warp. Blue has a ton of nice removal without even diving into counter spells, and black does good work too. Ultimately you'll be weak to enchantments and select artifacts if you don't pack enough heat for them.

>>47458099
50% TCGplayer mid price for trade ins. No cash option and can't be used on sealed product. Also no special buy list that gives more value. If you trade in bulk/collections you get even less, but that's usually because people are cashing out.

>>47457153
You always had to tap mono artifacts though. Continuous ones didn't have any but static abilities, poly had abilities that could be used multiple times per turn.

>>47458099
Special buy list appears largely every rotation for some standard stuff and the normal is 60% tcg mid, mostly because it has helped them beat competitors.

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A few days ago I cobbled together my first Commander deck, using Verdeloth the Ancient as the general.

>http://deckstats.net/decks/65792/496124-verdeloth-s-saproling-salad

It's basically about pumping out saproling as fast as posible and then make them bigger both by Verdeloth's passive and several other cards such as Kaysa, Thelonite Hermit, Nylea, and Nemata.

Treefolk also get some love from Verdeloth, so there's some support for them in the deck, while fungi (which is where most of the saprolings come from) get stuff like Thelon for some extra support (they all benefit from most of the same sources as saprolings, too).

I crafted the thing with the cards I had, so I'm missing some stuff that would be pretty nice with all the tokens and counters, like Doubling Season, but I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet.

What do you guys think?

>>47458835
Bad news, your hybrid white cards cannot be played in monogreen EDH, goes against the color identity rules even if you can cast them.

I like it though. I'd drop most of the thalids since they take so much to drop more saprolings and go for some more ways to accelerate your mana with rocks or more ramp. Absolutely get an Ashnod's Altar and consider Concordant Crossroads.

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>>47452113
Rules questions, /edh/

1. If Constricting Sliver and another Sliver enter the battlefield simultaneously (Twilight's Call was cast).

2. Mana Echoes is out. I tap Krenko to produce some goblins (including Krenko, let's say there are 9 goblins in play). How much mana does mana echoes net me? 9 goblins would come into play. Upon them hitting play (which would all be simultaneously), there would be 18 goblins in play. So would I get 9 instances of 17 colorless mana being added to my mana pool?

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>>47459033
forgot to include the other cards

>>47459033
>If Constricting Sliver and another Sliver enter the battlefield simultaneously (Twilight's Call was cast).
also forgot to include the rest of the question. So, would I get two instances of exile (in the sliver scenario)? I'm confused because the exile sliver enters at the same time, and it seems up in the air whether or not the second sliver would get the ability in time to exile a creature.

>>47459033
I believe you choose the order in which ETB triggers go off for your own creatures

Why does everyone come to us with their silly rules questions?
>>47459033
>>47459044
>>47459084
When multiple things ETB at the same time, they all see eachother and trigger accordingly. You'll get two constricting sliver triggers for exiling things, and your mana echoes will trigger 9 times for 17 each.

>>47459005

Oh, crap, you are right. Thank you very much for noticing!

Ashnod's Altar sounds like a good idea; I think I have one sitting in a binder somewhere. Concordant Crossroads is a nice suggestion as well; I'll see if I can find one.

As for mana rocks, at which number I should be aiming? Since the deck is mono-green, I didn't worry too much about mana artifacts, but maybe that was a mistake.

Thanks for the tips!

>>47459033
yes and yes

>>47459097
>>47459131
>>47459168
sheeeeeeit, thanks niggas

>>47459161
You always want rocks in EDH, mana acceleration is the name of the game, especially when you're going for a big splashy X kicker.
A lot of it'll depend on how volatile your meta is with MLD and artifact hate, but I'd at least shoot for Emerald Medallion and Caged Sun/Gauntlet of Power/both.

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>>47456923
>>47456943
>>47457045

Kill switch makes much more sense

>>47459272

Got it. I'll look into improving my mana rock game.

Thank you very much. This Saturday we're getting together with a bunch of friend to try out Commander, so I'll have the opportunity to experiment (we used to play in the mid 90's but left the game until late 2015, so this is new stuff for us! Pretty exciting).

>>47458506
I know. It was like the first line of the post.

>>47452113
I guess related to the OP: What's the highest number of combat phases you've managed to pull off? I maxed at 10

>>47459399
Have fun nigga

Bring some beer

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>>47459455
Infinite :^)

>>47459570
O-oh

>>47459570
It's funnier with Vent-maw in Xenagod since it's hardly even telegraphed.

>>47459399
You better report back!

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You know the drill, let's see them

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>>47459649
Alright, but I said I will rate a post before I post mine. Anyway, here's my rating fart/10. Everything wrong with the world.

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>>47459649

>>47459704
>fart/10. Everything wrong with the world.
;_;

>>47459728
>Zirilan control
That is a list I need to see

>>47459737
>>47459704
Okay, that was a poor precedent to set with the first review. Let's keep this a no bully zone. I just don't understand how you can enjoy EDH with those decks. They've been done in those exact ways one hundred times over and play pretty similarly from game to game. Do you not play that frequently? Is deckbuilding not fun for you?

>>47459728
Oh man, I built that same exact Pauper EDH guy, the Naya one. Sick. I wish people played that format. Anyway, as for active, pretty boring. I like your ideas for Darigaaz and I love Ulaasht.

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>want to play jund
>no commanders have evasion
>want to play grixis because sedris
>all the creatures I want to unearth are green
>say fuck it, decide to build esper
>don't want to build oloro pillowfort
>about to lose faith in humanity and try maya
>Uril, the Miststalker looks pretty neat
>his gimmick is based on auras and I'd rarely use them
I guess 3-colour decks just aren't for me. I just want a Jund commander with evasion and some janky +1/+1 counter-based ability.

>>47459924
karrthus tyrant of jund

>>47459924
Have you taken a look at Shattergang Bros? Prossh? Kresh?

>>47459860
>I just don't understand how you can enjoy EDH with those decks. They've been done in those exact ways one hundred times over and play pretty similarly from game to game. Do you not play that frequently? Is deckbuilding not fun for you?
I love deckbuilding and I play tons. The reason I play these decks is because I like high power level games. The process of tuning these decks to absolute perfection(man drains, force of wills, etc) is what I enjoy most about deckbuilding. The feeling of having a deck that has reached its maximum potential is something I really enjoy.

>>47456833

Yeah I think I can abuse this even more in my derevi stasis deck.

>>47459986
Why not do that with decks that haven't been done to death? Tuning a deck isn't exclusive to those generals. And certainly there are decks that are competitive that aren't discovered.

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>>47459860

>>47459950
>karrthus tyrant of jund
Not bad, but feels like I'd be forced into a dragon tribal with that ability. That being said, a 7/7 flying haste for 7 mana isn't terrible, I just wish it had trample or indestructible, but I know that's cherry picking bullshit.

>>47459957
Kresh was my first choice, but it seems like he's super vulnerable to removal. Prossh could be pretty good, I'm just not entirely sold on him, and the shattergang bros seem like something I'd like in my Mazirek deck, but I don't know whether he's worth building around. In the end, I think I'm just going to save up for an Animar and play simic with a splash of red.

>>47459924

>>47460062

If you want to be a hipster about your Jund deck, play Xira. She flies, draws cards, is cheap, and you can do whatever. She was my wincon when I played her, too.

>Why not do that with decks that haven't been done to death? Tuning a deck isn't exclusive to those generals. And certainly there are decks that are competitive that aren't discovered.
I've looked through most generals in all color combos, most of them aren't individually powerful/synergistic enough to warrant building a deck around. I also don't care if something has been "done to death". I don't bother myself with trying to be unique because I don't care if someone has built the deck before as long as I enjoy playing it.

>>47460148
this is directed at >>47460019

>>47460120
How was she your wincon? I'm interested, she seems neat.

>>47457520
>the greatest 4 turns I have ever had in my life. I kept a 1-land hand just because of all the crazy shit I had in hand
You need to elaborate

>>47460175
Not him, but drawing cards is a wincon in itself.

>>47460148
But that's my point, you can't really enjoy deckbuilding. You might enjoy deck tuning, but not deck building. It is a different thing. Do you not crave novelty?

To me, it isn't about being unique, that doesn't matter. But seeing something again will always be more boring than seeing something new.

Being competitive or casual isn't a direct correlation to how interesting your deck is. I've seen a lot of boring casual decks and I've seen a lot of exciting and interesting competitive decks.

The idea that there aren't powerful or synergistic commanders left to be discovered seems incredibly laughable to me with the sheer number of cards out there.

>>47456462

I don't get it, if they had untapped lands (and, you're implying, counterspells) when you tutored for ruric thar, why didn't they counter it?

>>47460241
Oh derp.

>deck out target opponent
>make them draw a card
>win

Sorry, my brain is pretty janked. Enough magic for me today.

>>47456561

Tragic arrogance and divine reckoning leave your opponents with board presence too, they are cool with a voltron theme but otherwise I consider them worse than rout and definitely worse than austere command

>>47460294
Good god no, I hope this is bait but I'll clarify anyways. If you and your opponents decks are on about even ground then the fact that you have access to more cards will let you out-value them. You get more removal, bombs and tempo tools.

>>47460268
>You might enjoy deck tuning, but not deck building
Just because I don't enjoy building the same decks as you do doesn't mean I don't enjoy building them. My recent build of Gaddock Teeg was a lot of fun for me, I've been itching to building something with the hatebears/stax playstyle for a while now.
>But seeing something again will always be more boring than seeing something new
Why? Just because something is new doesn't mean it's actually fun to play with.
>The idea that there aren't powerful or synergistic commanders left to be discovered seems incredibly laughable to me with the sheer number of cards out there.
There are a finite number of legendary creatures. Most of them don't have a strong enough ability to be competitive.

>>47460392
Oh, I understand. It naturally speeds up your deck by allowing you to have access to more cards at a faster rate than your opponent, regardless of context. It's sort of the same principle as cantrips, right? I was stuck thinking you want your opponent to draw a card, but 9/10 times, why would you want that, you know?

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>>47459649

>>47460499
Do you have a deck list for your Teysa? I made a very successful deck and gave it to my brother as a present. Now I need to rebuild and I'd like to give it a significant power-up.

>>47460462
So, you're basically a Spike? You don't want uniqueness, you just want the best and you want to win with it. Gotcha.

>>47459728
Mind sharing the group slug list?

>>47460585
Pretty much, I play commander to cast sweet, broken spells that are banned in every other format

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>>47460545
It's a super mid-range deck. It's not the fastest, but at least it can answer to most threats, and it's fun gearing up Teysa.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/renaissance-2/

>>47460618
Fair enough anon. It's just an objective fact at this point that you're intrinsically a dick, and if you're okay with that, there is nothing further to discuss.

>>47460462
What does the act of building consist to you?

And true, something being novel doesn't always mean fun to play, but it is the spice of life. Seeing or doing the same thing multiple times will always be more boring than doing different things, as long as they are up to a certain standard.

Being a Spike is fine, being competitive is fine, but being so convinced that the only competitive decks out there are the ones that everyone has seen is what I don't understand.

>>47460645
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/renaissance-2/
Hmm I see what's going on there, thanks for sharing. I have a significantly smaller budget so I'm going to tweak it pretty hard. Maybe one day I'll post a deck list and you can laugh at how it's slightly worse than what you're running now.

>>47460646

It sounds more like you're the dick kiddo.

>>47455698
You can afford that but not descent sleeves?

>>47460728
>implying you've been talking to me all thread
I was just lurking and read your posts then made a judgement based on the ideas you shared. If I'm a dick, that's fine, and if I'm not a dick, that's also fine, but regardless of circumstance it sounds to me like you could use some introspection relative to your current hobbies.

>>47460646
>It's just an objective fact at this point that you're intrinsically a dick
Why am I a dick?
>>47460675
>Being a Spike is fine, being competitive is fine, but being so convinced that the only competitive decks out there are the ones that everyone has seen is what I don't understand.
If someone can surprise me with a commander who I wouldn't normally see as competitive more power to them, but that's never happened

>>47460771

That's a long winded replay to my short one. But let me cut it short. I'm a different person.

>>47460062
nah just do hard jund control with him as a winncon not tribal

>>47460781
Wow. So you think it is impossible? Impossible to build a competitive list without building a deck that everyone has seen a billion times?

About how many cards legal in EDH would you estimate that are ever worth playing? Just a rough guess. A thousand? 500?

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>>47460853
1.

>>47460853
>Wow. So you think it is impossible? Impossible to build a competitive list without building a deck that everyone has seen a billion times?
I straight up said it was possible but I've never seen it happen.
>About how many cards legal in EDH would you estimate that are ever worth playing? Just a rough guess. A thousand? 500?
I don't know, it's not like I've counted how many cards are good

>>47460920
But why don't you do it? Why not try? That is my assertion. Wouldn't it be a fun and exciting deckbuilding challenge? I'm not talking about willfully dumbing down your decks, but simply bringing something new to the competitive sphere so novelty exists.

That's all. Anyway, I was asking for a guess.

>>47459835
god I haven't updated that image. It's more "Big Red" than straight control but that gets the idea across. You probably don't want to see my tappedout list since it's the alpha ver. but deck ramps hard into stuff like Bogardon Hellkite and Siege Dragon while recycling it with Tel-Jilad Stylus and sac effects to control the board. Win cons are Hellkite Tyrant and Utvara Hellkite+Scourge of Valkas

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So, /tg/, how do i make a politics deck without slipping into the kingmaker area?
I was thinking about Gahiji or Daghatar, but not realy sure, how those kind of decks win.
It looks like it would be a one trick pony, because other players will inevitably catch onto your plans.

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Any good ideas for an unusual voltron? I was thinking of making Thraximundar but I could use more ideas

>>47461006
Gahiji wins by swinging at players with pumped up creatures. Politics can be important, but you still end up killing people the same way.

>>47461006
Try Gwafa Hazid, fill the deck with UW fliers and Costal Piracy/Bident alongside a bunch of Will of the Council cards. Build incremental card advantage while chipping away life totals and throwing people bones with Will of the Council (WotC, holy fuck)

>>47461028
Daxos the Returned and lots of cheap auras.
This will provide you with a backup beatdown plan and give you nice blockers.

>>47461038
If i were playing against Gahiji guy, I would be extremely wary of him, since he can just whipe out a playert out of nowhere with six or seven hasty 1/1-s.

>>47460175


>>47460392

Well, ACTUALLY, >>47460294 is exactly right.

I used infinite mana and untap to make my opponents deck themselves. It was basically mana dork.dec, so using Aggravated Assault for infinite mana wasn't hard. However, unless I had City of Solitude out, I needed another way to Untap Xira since AA is sorcery speed only. Luckily, stuff like Sword of Paruns and Umbral Mantle exist.

>>47460478

You are right, though. It allowed me to draw cards when I needed it, and she is pretty low key under the radar.

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>>47460899
10/10 taste my brother of African descent

>>47461076
This

Gwafa is actually fun as fuck. I built a Pillowfort/Group Hug deck with him that drew tons of cards, then retooled it into a more serious politics/control deck that's actually pretty solid. Lots of Mind Control effects are key, as is Bribery.

Azor's Elecutors is the best wincon.

>>47460899
Whatever happened to that anon that was building Agrus Kos? Is that you?

Post list

>>47461461
Well, i was leaning towards Daghatar mostly, just because he appears pretty much useless.
But sure, I can give it a shot.
Mind sharing your list?

Is Sygg, River Guide fun? I've been wanting to build a UW deck that isn't hard control/lockdown and my favorites so far are Hanna Sygg and Kangee, but I already have an artifact deck so I'd want to build Hanna more enchantment heavy. I'm just worried teibal merfolk might get kind of ild after a while, thoughts?

>>47461028
Karlov. Gets huge easily with lifegain triggers

>>47455698
Her and mindslaver with enough manna is insta win

>>47460233
Alright strap in

>Opening hand is Mountain, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Extraplanar Lens, Generator Servant, Bogardan Hellkite, and Knollspine Dragon
>T1: Draw into Mountain. Play Mountain, Ring, Vault, Lens, Imprint Mountain
>T2: Draw into Dragon Mage. Drop Mountain and Servant
>T3: Draw into Mountain. Drop Mountain, tap out all mana and sac Servant for 4RRRR, play and activate Zirilan, get Lightning Shrieker, hit Jhoira for 5, shuffle in
>T4: Draw into Assault Strobe. Use Zirilan again, grab Kilnmouth Dragon, reveal all 3 Dragons for 9 +1 counters, drop Strobe to dome Jhoira for 28

Not having a sac outlet for Kilnmouth really hurt and is probably what lost me the game, but I drew into Flameshadow Conjuring next and tutored Shrieker with a copy to kill him

Fuck Jhoira

>>47457411

Have Kaalia as a commander.

Drop him and watch opponents get mad AF as they top deck one shitty card /100 and you probably top deck a bomb /100.

>>47458099
My local lgs blows dicks. They don't special order stuff, or even try to get shit in. Even if you've been a customer with them for quite some time.

Also, they don't give you shit for credit really.

>>47461617
Not necessarily, your opponents are only under your control during their turns. The ones you arn't controlling can still do what ever they want and can disrupt your combo. And while usually this means blue players, veldalken orrery is a decently popular card in some metals so it could be anyone.

>>47461555

>worried about merfolk tribal being boring
>considering fucking bird tribal as an alternative

Merfolk have way more options and depth to their strategy than birds

>>47460281
Probably bluffing is my guess.Or they underestimated what he'd be dropping and just stupidly let it resolve.

>>47457411
I run him with Nekusar, because nothing is better than giving and then taking away.

what are some sweet tribal zombie cards for BUG, asking for a friend.

>>47461827
Grimgrin
Relentless Dead

>>47461927
>Relentless Dead
seems good. the general is sidisi, so also using flashback and dredge cards but trying to keep it zombie themed.

>>47461028
Nefrox would be hella fun.

I was thinking about building one with either him or Skittles poison dragon, but I'm too busy getting my main deck together. Sold all the rest of my cards to make a dent in it lol

>>47461972
Oh you definitely want Diregraf Captain and Death Baron in that case. Death Baron is pricey but a really good zombie lord, as is Diregraf

>>47461633
Damn dude that's harsh. But if Jin-Gitaxias was on the field and Kozilek was waiting in the wings he would have won the game

Anyone have any commanders they'd suggest? I usually like playing more unconventional strategies; my current decks are Mishra artifact combo and Zurgo wrath effects, combat tricks, and fatties.

My playgroup includes: Kruiphix, Tasigur, Meren, Nekusar, Yisan, Gitrog, Prosh, Zedru, Grenko, Brago, Jenara, Zur, Scion of the Ur Dragon, Captain Sissay, Nahiri, 5c Superfriends, and Norin.

I've played: Arcum, Karn, Memnarch, Khalia, Reaper King (God why does it have to suck so fucking bad), and Old Teysa.

>>47462098
Lyzolda.

>>47461633
Alternately, cast an Oracle of Dust and Jhoira will never resolve a fatty for as long as it's on the field

But that's a pretty spectacular opening. Even though you lost, well done. I share your sentiments on Jhoira

>>47462098
Geist competitive level. You could also go for Edric.

>>47462098
Mazirek eggs/tokens or Chorus of the Conclave infect

>>47462036
I have all the lords, looking for any spicy combo cards or things that work well in the GY/ when milled that I might have missed. Baron and captain are great.

>>47462098
Gahiji

>>47462341
Vengeful Pharaoh.
Filth and Genesis are pretty obvious

>>47462098
Hua Tuo

>>47462098
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244663
+ all the "when you connect with a creature, _ happens" shit U and artifacts have

>>47461633
>Draw into Assault Strobe. Use Zirilan again, grab Kilnmouth Dragon, reveal all 3 Dragons for 9 +1 counters, drop Strobe to dome Jhoira for 28
That's amazing. I didn't even know there was a double strike giving 1-drop

>>47456812
Razia, Avacyn, and Reya are all extremely high-mana creatures that might be worth cutting. A more aggressive strategy will benefit from their non-inclusion, and they're the highest mana things on the list. Razia in particular is really pretty bad.
Flameblade Angel is also pretty bad. Not worth playing even if you are going for the long game.
Archetype of Aggression is not very good. I suppose if you intend to use him to block out your opponents from trampling over tokens he's all right, though.
Berzerker's Onslaught is mostly a strict downgrade of True Conviction, sadly.
Howl of the Horde is neat, and so is Radiate and Increasing Vengeance, but its worth remembering that these spells are commonly worthless unless you have something else to copy with them. I run Reverberate myself, because I can use it to target opponents' spells and even act as a counterspell-counterspell in a pinch.
Eldrazi Displacer is a very good card, but how good is it actually in this deck? I'm not certain it deserves a place here.
Make a Stand is almost a strict downgrade of Boros Charm, which I recommend highly.

>>47456812
I don't see no Fury of the Horde in this list bitch nigga

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>tappedout is down

I NEED TO PLAYTEST

>>47461633
>Kilnmouth Dragon
this dude is a fucking MVP, love it want it gotta have it.
You actually use Lightning Shrieker though? That dragon is kinda bad in my experience.

>>47462654
Flameblade was an on-the-fence card to me, and I can see that it'd be good to cut.
Archetype was there more to give my guys trample, but I guess that's not really needed with them all getting flying and double strike every turn.
I have True Conviction too, but I guess I should remove Berzerker's
The copying spells are there to copy all the extra combat cards, and I do have reiterate. (Radiate is a secret deck tech combo with Sieze the Day)
Displacer is there because if I blink Aurelia herself, her ability triggers again because she technically becomes a new object on the field, so her "second" attack is counted as the "new" Aurelia's first, and she re-triggers
and yea, thought I already had Boros Charm, but I guess not, so that's getting swapped

>>47462715
I had to keep it to extra combat cards that could self-recur since the decklist was already kinda tight, and I figured with all the recurring ones and my other copying cards, I wouldn't need more extra combat cards that didn't bring themselves back.

>>47462746
He saves himself from Zirilan's exile trigger, which I think is helpful

>>47461484
Yeah, it's me.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/host-of-the-boros-legion/

This is it so far. I'm straddling between wanting to maintain a budget and going all out with it, but I'm having fun with this as is, even if it's shit.

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I need this in my life.

>>47462968
I hope it's in EMA so I get a foil one

>>47462968
I don't remember how, but someone had made a combo with this where they could infinitely cause their opponent to shuffle their deck until they either conceded or their deck turned to mush from endless shuffling.

>>47462974
It needs a reprint. The days I have spent making an infinite shuffle/dice roll deck could bring nations to ruins.
All I want is to annoy someone into concession.

>>47463025
Psychogenic Probe really made the deck much more viable/threatening. I don't include it in mine.

>>47463065
The real trick would be to create a combo that requires you to activate Soldier but still advances the board state while you do so so you can repeat in an abnormal amounts of time without running into the four horsemen dilemma. Then have a card such as Lantern of Insight so the top card of their deck is a known factor, forcing them to shuffle and reveal the top card each time you repeat the combo.

>>47463152
>Lantern of Insight
I think this would be enough to justify the claim that a shuffle is necessary. You could easily claim you are just having them shuffle until the top card is one you want. Or you are doing it until you have a good idea what every card in their deck is and how many lands they have, ect...

>>47463152
Use Psychogenic Probe

>>47463307
>>47463307
Psychogenic Probe might kill them, I just want to make them shuffle until their fingers bleed.

>>47462968
>tfw he's not a Soldier

Who is hands down the best Voltron commander of all time?

>>47464409

Nobody is "hands down" the best, voltron comes in many forms, sometimes it's just a sub strategy to supplement a combo or stax deck

However just going off of dedicated voltron generals, I think Uril the miststalker is the most powerful

If we include control and combo decks that like to win through commander damage I would say prossh and skithyryx are tied

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>>47464409

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-10-15-selvala-edh/

Selvala is my friend.

>>47464409
She's not the best, but I'm a pretty big fan of kemba. There's way better commanders for voltron in white if you dedicate to the strategy, but she works well if you have a particularly strained budget.

Also if you hit a wall with your voltron, in most other builds you will just straight lose. Kemba packs a second phase plan for token swarm to finish off any remaining players. Granted, some of the main stays for either of her strategies can conflict with each other, I feel there's a good enough overlap that you can make it work (like cathar's crusade, not matter whether you're still in voltron mode or in token mode, you'll win if you can untapped with it).

>>47459924
flying is evasion m8

>>47454927
Play Karma and the other color hosers

Which is the more useful mana rock between these two, Mind Stone or Thought Vessel?

>>47466188
I play mono-red and am always in severe need of draw, so Mind Stone

>>47466188

depends

in red and white, mind stone

in blue and black, thought vessel

green doesnt care about mid tier mana rocks

>>47456933
In green decks in general you should run X mana dorks, where X is all of them. By mana dork I mean all 1cmc guys that tap for 1 mana. Also include Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix

>>47466609
Mana dorks suck in EDH. Cultivate doesn't get hit by Wrath of God.

>>47466637
They ramp, and then you can sack them.

>>47466668
Ok, sacrifice fodder is one use I hadn't considered that much, but if we're just talking about green, you're already in a situation where you can use better cards as better sac fodder. Would you really run Llanawar Elves over, say, Awakening Zone, which both ramps harder and produces technically endless sac fodder? Granted, it's a crippling two colorless more expensive, but this is EDH here.

I'd run mana dorks in EDH if I were playing Elves, but I've got a R/G dragons list and by my reckoning there's no room for Elvish Mystic in there.

>>47466609
Mana dorks are worth it in only french EDH with few exceptions such as BoP and Somberwald Sage. Unless your strategy is just to nuke lands, and even artifact sources are better, as they're harder to remove. There is no way that anyone would let you have zillion utility creatures and not wrath the table.
Then again most EDH-players are idiots.

>>47466762
I've stopped running many non-permanent ramp spells in my EDH decks. Having a high permanent count is relevant. Having early plays is much more important than durdling until Kodama's Reach on T3.
And as >>47466668 pointed out, they can be used again.
Birds of Paradise is a fine carrier for a Sword of XandY.
This doesn't even take account for ETB effects such as that of Wood Elves, and how they can be abused in many ways. You get to ramp for a good amount of time, which is more relevant than having 10+ lands later on, when having 7 lands is (and should be if your curve is ends where it should) already enough to cast whatever you draw.

While it is 1v1, most of the played green cards are mana dorks

>>47458835
Aside from the hybrid mana cards, Thelon is also illegal.

Try to fit Umbral Mantle for the infinite mana with Karametra's Acolyte upon reaching 4 G Devotion.

Where's Mycoloth?

Considered Changeling Colossus?

Got a spare Earthcraft?

>>47466762

>Would you really run Llanawar Elves over, say, Awakening Zone, which both ramps harder and produces technically endless sac fodder? Granted, it's a crippling two colorless more expensive, but this is EDH here.

dude i would run llanowar elves in every single green deck, its so fucking good

youre way underestimating turn 1 ramp

instead of always starting your ramp game on turn 2 or 3, you can have crazy explosive starts like turn 1 elf, turn 2 cultivate, turn 3 karametra

and stuff like that

dont underestimate elvish mystic

awakening zone isnt great ramp, its good sac fodder though

mana dorks die to board wipes, thats their big weakness, but they can be recurred by lots of effects, which counteracts that, also since they come out on turn 1 and 2, you can get value out of them before board wipes come out and rebuild after

mana rocks die but they are still useful, and most mana rocks that tap for 1 cost at least 2, sometimes 3, especially if you want colored mana

mana dorks come out a full turn ahead

a diverse ramp package is best anyway, you want land search, dorks, rocks, and even some top end stuff like mana reflection/mirari's wake, frontier siege, vorinclex

>>47461028
Any of the two Ob Nixilis creatures can be unusual Voltron commanders.

Landfall Ob Nixilis requires a lot more work but it's fun if you're fine with not winning a lot.

>>47466609
Of all the things you're picking at, it's the mana dorks?

Not my Sagittars or the Watchwolf?

>>47467044
That was the only advice I can really give because
>NO LIST
>O

>L
>I
>S
>T

Off topic but what online mtg client does everyone use?
I want to test an edh deck before buying, but I'm not sure whether I should use lackey, cockatrice, worktable, or whatever the fuck.
I tried lackey but it had almost nobody online and the few people playing magic weren't playing edh.

>>47467114
The list wasn't the point. This is the equivalent of staring at 10 cards and going 'What am I going to do with this?'

But yeah, tappedout was down at the time.

>>47467142
From what I've seen it's not a huge deal, I personally use cockatrice

>>47467142
I use Cockatrice. People on it can be shitters but it's easy to install and has a decent interface.
>>47467158
You don't seem to have a cohesive theme. Pick and choose one.
Voltron?
GW matters (as in you want to have both colours (Shield of the Oversoul/Sunblade Elf))?
Tokens maybe?
Fuck if I know, your job is to at least choose what you'd like to play.
I'd go with GW matters.

Alright so we have seen what you have, now what do you want.

What are you Currently building, give ideas/disuade also talk shit about other people's taste.

I'm thinking about Braggo for a manifest/morph flicker deck. Probably all sphinxes and angels.

Thinking about a NIn the pain artist too. I want a RU spell slinging deck, I want to run precursor golem and hedron grinder shenanigans.

Ideas?

>>47463391
LOL. I like this.
BUG control. There is enough cards that allow for people searching their decks for x or y. Weird harvest, noble benefactor, add te teferi's puzzle box for extra butt hurt.

Building jareth, Leonin titan because I own a beautiful foil.

Building similar to a kemba shell, but add boardwipes, equipments that cost and equip for more but give bigger power (and trample) as well as giving him Lifelink.

Lots of removal and mana rocks, still tweaking, but seems like a fun as fuck deck albeit janky

>>47468159

Jareth really likes vigilance

>>47468159
Shit, meant to reply to
>>47467372

>>47468173
I noticed, I'm also running silent arbiter to ensure that the trample goes over for maximum damage

I really like the equipment O-naganati and gate smasher for this deck

>>47467372
Still building my Wort, the Raidmother but I feel it's a bit too slow. It's hard to find a balance between tokens, ramp and burn I think.
Brago manifest sounds pretty fun though.

>>47467372
I just want to build Kami of the Moon and make everybody DRAW THEIR ENTIRE DECK AND BRING DEFEAT FROM THEIR OWN LUDICROUS GREED. MWUAHAHA.

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RARE
A
R
E

>>47468652
You're either an idiot, or a memester from the spoils thread.
Either way, kill yourself.

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Any advice for this Grenzo list?
I was thinking of dropping feldon and flayer of the hatebound

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grenzos-dusty-basement/

>>47466637
Mana Dorks give you the mana to kill them before they cast Wrath of God

>>47466609
Sylvan Caraytid and Courser are not Autoincludes by any stretch of the imagination. Caraytid is miles worse than quite a number of 2cmc dorks and Courser is bad at worst and shit draw at best

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>>47468652

Nice meme, friend

Hey, I want to build a new EDH deck and I have a bunch of ideas and options, but I want your advice. What color combination should I go with? These are the decks I have now:

>>47459704

5-color, RB, RU, RG, RW, MonoG, MonoB, BUG, GW.

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>want to build Hidetsugu
>don't want my group to hate me

>>47470286
Speaking of Hidetsugu, I have a ruling question:

>Hidetsugu is on the field, able to be tapped
>play Havoc Festival
>beginning of opponent's upkeep I tap Hidetsugu
Does my opponent instantly lose all of their life, or would the stack work like: Hidetsugu takes half their life, havoc festival goes on the stack, resolving to take half of half their life?

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>tfw they fixed winter orb

Making prison decks great again.

>>47470663
Is Relic Barrier just objectively the best course of action for dealing with winter orb, or is there some dirty one mana green or red instant that'll remove it?

>>47470690
Just kill it if you can. You can tap it down if you have no other ways to deal with it I guess. I can't wait to tap it down on my opponent's end step tho.

>>47470717
Vandalblast seems like a pretty good answer, despite it being a sorcery. I just know faggots in my playgroup will be running that bastard and I wanted to know how to deal with it.

>>47470655
Yes, they get 2 instances of "you lose half of your life".
No double damage, you need different things for that.

>>47470690
>is there some dirty one mana green or red instant that'll remove it?

Sure. Natural State, Nature's Claim, Smelt, also stuff like Torch Fiend etc.

>>47470663
Kill Switch, Icy Manipulator or Lodestone Myr are better options tho.

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>>47470663
C'mon, at least do it in style.

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>testing new deck on Tappedout
>gets completely blown out almost every time

Jesus Christ these decks are insane. The 1v1 isn't helping but god damn, a turn 2 Inkwell is not kosher

>>47471458
You can playtest with other people on tappedout?

>>47471803
I just goldfish

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I'm gonna turn my Newzuri deck into Kaseto rogues/damage triggers, wish me luck /edh/.

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I'm finding it harder and harder to care about EDH. The format gives me a lot of what I want in Magic: high variance, complex board states, lots of decision making, a higher emphasis on creative deckbuilding and enough wiggle room to play and succeed with non-cookie-cutter cards and strategies.

But god fucking damn it, I keep finding that the games too often come down to luck and who drew their big turn 1 mana rocks and who attracted the attention of that dumbass at the table with terrible threat assessment who just picks his targets randomly, defending his actions with "lol it's just EDH who cares". This format has some of the most interesting and challenging deckbuilding in the game but games play out like four children whacking each other with foam swords.

Would it be at all possible to make an EDH variant that's more balanced and skill-intensive rather than the "lolsorandumb" shit we get, and which is actively encouraged by the rules committee? I play French for duels but I really wish I could get a similar experience in multiplayer.

>>47472368
FFA multiplayer competitive never really works, EDH or otherwise.

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>>47472430
Unless it has good multiplayer mechanics built in

>>47472430
Shit I'd be cool with an EDH variant balanced around team multiplayer, like 2HG. And anyway, the main issue I run into isn't that multiplayer is hard to balance (that's something we just have to deal with), it's that the format philosophy actively encourages being dumb and doing bad plays "for the lulz". You can once in a while find a group of like-minded players who understand that it's possible to have fun while playing to win but more often than not you'll find players who roll dice to pick who they attack first.

>>47472368
You're playing a card game. Luck will fuck you when it feels ready.

Everything else you mentioned has to do with people, which unless you can program a computer to handle high level magic interactions and know how to play and threat assess, you cant run from that problem other than by distancing yourself from such people.

>>47472505
When the committee making the rules takes every opportunity to stigmatize playing to win, it fosters this kind of environment. And though it's true luck will fuck you when it wants in a card game, there are ways to reduce the influence of luck on a game's outcome, namely by making a balanced fucking banlist and ruleset. The change to the mulligan rule was a step in the right direction by reducing the natural occurrence of explosive turn 1 plays through hand sculpting, but as long as it's still possible to hit 5 mana on turn 1, that issue isn't solved.

>>47472477
>>47472554
Yes, EDH is a casual format not suited to competitive play. This is true for many reasons, including the rules committee and their stated philosophy. I roll the dice to decide who to attack first too. I see no issue with it. The guise of impartiality helps in this game.

I really don't think there is any getting around this. Try playing FFA legacy or vintage with some of your friends. Notice what makes games bad. Attempt to fix them.

Personally, I don't think the "Pretend to be in 2nd Place the whole game" goes away.

>>47472554
Even if all 1cmc mana rocks were banned, i dont think it would stop explosive starts. All you do at that point is transfer over to mana dorks and you can easily get the same effect. The only real thing this does is push green even more over the top in EDH, as they are now the ONLY color that can ramp efficiently.

Dont get me wrong, im not trying to say that since everyone can have a possible sol ring start that its fair, but artifact ramp on the whole does help the format. Really we'd need these rules committees to nut up and ban at least sol ring so we can even begin to test this though.

>>47472671
>The only real thing this does is push green even more over the top in EDH, as they are now the ONLY color that can ramp efficiently.
I respectfully disagree, I've seen colorless and monored decks ramp harder than any green decks. And it's reasonable that green should be the best at ramping anyway. There's a counter to that in the form of MLD, which I think should see a lot more play in the format given how large the emphasis is on "get more mana > win".
>Really we'd need these rules committees to nut up and ban at least sol ring so we can even begin to test this though.
One of my playgroups plays with Sol Ring and Mana Crypt banned. There are still explosive starts and we still see shit like turn 3-4 Maelstrom Wanderer or turn 2 Daretti, but not nearly as frequently and never earlier than that. Explosive starts still happen but with just enough delay that the opponents are usually in a better position to answer what's going on. In my experience, it's been a vast improvement over the status quo.

>>47472627
>I roll the dice to decide who to attack first too.
Why? I'm legitimately curious, I want to hear why you do this, because it sounds fucking insane to me.

>>47472777
I dont know man, we've seen quite a few green ramp cards banned (some of which got unbanned) and that speaks a lot how powerful ramp is in this format. True both sylvan primodial and prime time were very pushed, but ive seen a fair amount of games spin out of control because someone pipped a khalni heart, harrow, and cultivate or similar all in one turn.

Personally im not a fan of MLD, but thats mainly due to people not knowing when to do it. I think LD on the whole should see more play because things like gavony or coffers will run away with a game if you let them. MLD is fine when you have a win on board or i the next couple turns. It becomes insufferable when you reset the all lands just because you want to punish the guy who ramped hard turns 3-5 and had 11 lands out.

>>47473015
>It becomes insufferable when you reset the all lands just because you want to punish the guy who ramped hard turns 3-5 and had 11 lands out.
It's also insufferable to let that guy cast 4 spells a turn for the remainder of the game and be able to rebuild immediately after you disrupt him. I'll pick the lesser of two evils and promote MLD.

Wraths punish people who dump all their creatures in play as fast as possible, MLD punish people who do the same with lands. They should be treated the same, you don't need an immediate win afterwards to justify casting them, you just need to have a valid reason to cast them, and "someone has too many lands / creatures / artifacts and is threatening to run away with the game" is always an excellent reason to destroy all lands / creatures / artifacts (use Jokulhaups to be sure, all angles are covered).

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Any suggestions on how to build this guy? I feel like it would work well with Forgotten Creation, but it's just too damn costly.

>>47473169
I'd assume just a bunch of draw multipliers and multi-draw and wheel effects; and stuff that triggers on drawing would still go, so maybe things like Jace's Erasure and such?
Lab Maniac also, since Tomorrow's effect causes you to be unable to lose via draw-out since it replaces draws, so you could hold out until you get the maniac out.

>>47473169
Leveler + Lab Man

>>47473007
So, my generals are pretty cheap and my playgroup is casual. So, turn four, I have my general in play while the rest of them don't have blockers or much in play.

I don't like singling out people just because of a commander or based on a grudge from a previous game. 2 damage from Jori En isn't gonna make or break the game, but I'm not gonna skip my combat phase and rolling a dice makes me seem impartial.

I get enough "You just blew up my whole board state, of course I'm gonna target you" without the "Well, you did attack me".

>>47473169
Omen Machine

>>47473139
I'd rather just keep people from casting 4 things every turn rather than blow up their lands.

Sure, Zegana or Maelstrom basically just won if they have a certain number of lands in play, but fuck it, ban them. I am sitting here tapping out for a glorified Craw Wurm and the last thing I need is to be forced into draw go.

>>47473139
Magic is often about figuring out where and when your deck is superior to your opponents' deck, and trying to bring the game to that stage so you can have the upper hand. If you're better in the late game, you try to make the game last to that point. If you're better in the early game, you try to beat your opponents quickly.

But only in EDH are you told that if your deck operates better on limited resources playing out an attrition game, you're an asshole for trying to limit people's resources. You're not allowed to play to your deck's strengths, you should be trying to beat people at their own game by letting your opponents dictate the pace of the game. This annoys me to no end.

>>47473356
Omen Machine is exactly not what Tomorrow wants, since it stops draws and Tomorrow needs draws in the first place in order for its ability to replace them.

>>47473412
Oh, nvm. I thought it would work like Possesed Portal.

>>47473329
>I don't like singling out people just because of a commander or based on a grudge from a previous game.
But that's not the only way to pick your targets. If anything, it's the objectively wrong and dumb way to pick targets. In the vast majority of situations, there should always be an attack that's better than others. Even in the early game, it's much smarter to attack the guy who had a turn 1 and a turn 2 play rather than the guy who mulliganed twice and stumbled on lands. Rolling the dice may be impartial but it's also a straight up bad play.
>I get enough "You just blew up my whole board state, of course I'm gonna target you" without the "Well, you did attack me".
I totally get where you're coming from and I hate that shit and the players who pull it, I just don't let it affect my threat assessment. I make it clear that when I target someone, it's because of actual game reasons rather than out-of-game reasons, and I urge them to do the same. That rarely works because EDH players are retards.

>>47473456
>>47473456
>>47473456
You aren't playing the social game. EDH is social. Being obnoxious is bad, but playing politics is half the fun.

I win a lot of games I didn't deserve to because well, no one could get mad at me the whole game.

Anyway, as for the first attack thing, as I said, our playgroup is casual. Sure, I won't swing at the guy who had to mulligan to oblivion, but most people end up at 7 cards and the turn when I start attacking, there usually isn't anything else in play other than lands.

I mentioned that already, did you not read it?

>>47471458
Careful Study into Animate Dead?

>>47473540
>Being obnoxious is bad, but playing politics is half the fun.
We have very different definitions of politics. I love politics when they entail pitting opponents against each others by creating game situations that encourage that, I love politics when they mean presenting a mutually beneficial situation while knowing that you will have the upper hand with what you still have in hand. I don't like politics when they mean acting nice and giving the player next to you a handjob under the table in exchange for them not removing your commander.

Politics at a table with good threat assessment are great. Politics at a table with idiots who hold grudges and must retaliate to any attack with one of greater power, even across games, are fucking retarded.

>>47473169
Laboratory Maniac for a win con.
Alhammarret's Archive and Thought Reflection for more draws to replace.
Shared Fate, Uba Mask, and Possessed Portal to fuck with other people's draws while you use Tomorrow's replacement to over-ride the effects on yourself.

>>47472368
Free for all tends to do that, but housebanning sol ring helps. That card turn 1 just mutilates games.

>>47473636
>>47473169
Also, Teferi's Puzzle box and the like for more draws. (Just remember that Teferi's Puzzle Box is one of the very few effects that affect draws yet happen before your first draw in your draw phase.)

>>47473659
Not trying to be That Guy but:
Rulings
10/4/2004 You do your normal draw before this ability is put on the stack.

>>47473632
There's more to a game than the outcome of the game. Bad threat assessment bugs me too, but a player targeting you because you played a card they hate playing against isn't bad threat assessment, it is deciding that in this instance the advantage gained in the game from playing smart is less than the emotional response given by "winning" in a different way.

You don't seem to get that. Or at the very least, don't think it has a place. I like making opponents make stupid plays due to their emotions.

I am much more likely to allow someone to take back a move if they misjudged the board state than I am to allow someone to take back a move where they acted rashly without thinking.

>>47473632
>opponent A can kill me at instant speed but is guaranteed to lose to opponent B if he does
>I make a big play that threatens opponent B's current complete domination
>opponent A ponders killing me in response
>"I'm only going to go after opponent B this turn and C has a NevDisk to stabilize the boards if things get out of hand, it's in your best interest to let me pull off that play"
>opponent A thinks for a while
>"Ok, sure, but if I do, are you going to try to kill me afterwards?"
>"Well yeah, obviously, I'll try to kill you eventually, we can't both win"
>"Ok then I kill you in response"
>he goes on to predictably lose to opponent B without even putting up a fight
Why are people so fucking retarded.

>>47473743
I also target people when they play cards I hate playing against but that's because cards I hate playing against tend to be cards that are good against my deck so getting that player out of the way is objectively the smart choice at that moment.

>>47473883
No person is perfectly rational. You can try to be, but biases and things will cloud your judgement. Use your opponents' biases against them.

There's more to a game than just the game. There always is. Don't start shit, don't point it out, because you don't want drama over something so trivial, but keep it in mind when playing. Watch people's emotions.

You can't expect a game like EDH to be played by objective automatons. This stuff isn't so binary. Even competitive players get tilted and that's in serious games.

>>47473636
How does Tomorrow negate the downsides of Portal?

>>47473992
This shit isn't entirely black and white but there's a HUGE gap between saying "I try to win by creating situations that favor me and pit players against each others" and "I try to win by being nice to everyone so they don't attack me and randomly picking who I attack so they think I'm impartial and not being rude :^)"

>>47474026
You'd still have to discard a card or sac a permanent at the end of each turn, but Tomorrow lets you replace your draw with its effect, and the Portal is also a replacement, and since you are the controller of both replacement effects you choose which one actually happens. So you just use Tomorrow's ability instead of the Portal skipping your draw(s).

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>bring friend to LGS for EDH last night, lent him a goofy Giant tribal deck to try
>some fat dickhead at the store talking up his game like crazy, bragging about power level of his deck, the works
>sit down to play
>Giant tribal deck has an insane start and kicks the shit out of everyone

Seeing a turn 2 Urabrask resolve was pretty fucking magical

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>>47474476
Giant Tribal you say?

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>>47474550
Yeah with a giant horse-man as the general

Giants with Menace and unkillable from defender damage just felt appropriate

>>47473236

jace's erasure does NOT trigger if your replace you draw with tomorrow's effect

for the same reason you cant lose from not having cards in your library

>>47474476
>t 2 urabrask

I'm still pretty new to EDH what the hell happened to pump out a 5 drop on turn two?

>>47473456
>it's much smarter to attack the guy who had a turn 1 and a turn 2 play rather than the guy who mulliganed twice and stumbled on lands.

Is it though? When you have the advantage on an opponent you really want to press it for all it's worth to ensure that said opponent can't recover back into the game. It's kinda cruel in a casual fun sense but if you really are playing to win you should be stomping on their balls while they are already down. So says Sun Tzu.

>>47475020

sol ring + 2 cmc mana rock on turn 1 will do it

>>47475020
T1 Mountain - Sol Ring - Mana Vault
T2 Mountain - Urabrask

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>>47475044
>>47475055
wew

>>47475040

sun tzu also mentions the divide and conquer strategy, if i recall correctly

in a MULTIPLAYER game, attacking the person who is farthest behind and letting the person out in front do whatever they like is really just doing all the work of a divide and conquer strategy for that person

>>47475070
He was so hyped

He dropped Smoke T3, then a Mind Stone. Iroas hit T4 and he started swinging for the fences

>>47475071
Well yes, blowing your entire load and leaving your flank exposed is stupid. But if you got the combat phases and the creatures you get the most value out of taking pot shots at the guy who can't retaliate.

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>>47475145
>Smoke and Urabrask on the table together
Jesus Christ that's nasty. Fucking awesome, but nasty.

>>47475145
god dang, I've gotta get my hands on some sol rings.

>>47473139
>Jokulhaups
>*Enchantress laughing in the distance*

>>47475161

well if we are just talking about combat when we say "attacking a player" (as opposed to attacking his resources with disruption), then yeah it can often be the case that you want to attack the person with the least chance of stopping you, because you have combat triggers like sword of feast and famine

>>47475188
It was fucking crazy, I've never had the deck play that well before. I built it as something to fuck around with with friends but I might have to tune it

I want to attach Blade of Selves to Borderland Behemoth so badly

>>47475161
While it can often be good to soften up the player who's behind, you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you're spending valuable resources and trading cards with the weakest opponent if it only results in turning the game into a 1v1v1, with you being behind on cards from having killed the fourth player. The guy who's behind is exposed and vulnerable, sure, but he may have a Swords to Plowshares in hand. He really doesn't want to use it but he will if you force him to. You'd much rather he later spend that same spell on someone else's threat.

Trying to eliminate one player ASAP in my experience only works when you're REALLY far ahead due to an explosive start, or if that player's deck is something you really struggle to beat (eg. they're enchantress and you're Rakdos beats)

I want to make a casual commander deck, what is a cool non human tribal commader for a deck like that?

>>47475369

sygg river guide merfolk
freyalise elves
lovisa coldeyes berserkers warriors etc
iroas soldiers
krenko goblins

>>47475369
>iroas soldiers
>not iroas GIANTS

Come to Timmytown, we'll show you the light

>>47474036
You win through a combination. Randomly picking who to attack only really happens when it legit doesn't matter, but it gives off the impression that it does.

Anyway, I don't know why you are so opposed to the idea of manipulating stupid people. You don't have to be manipulated yourself, but you can manipulate them. There's no harm in it. You aren't compromising your integrity.