/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Kind of want to see all those fan submitted Requiem Bloodlines get updated.

First for SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AEONS, JESUS!

>>47422663

All lodge and legacies, bloodlines can rot

Now that Mages are here and they are disappointing shit, I am defaulting to my second-best idea of a campaign about minor splats (mostly probably Offspring, Latents, or Fractals.)

Do throw Infrastructure and God-Machine-y ideas my way.

>>47422714

No one posted about Aeon in here. Now you've ruined it. Are they even still going to call it Aeon? I figured they were just going to keep the Trinity title.

>>47422721

God machine idea: get better taste

>>47422721
>Now that Mages are here and they are disappointing shit

You are a turd

Working on setting up a beast crossover game at the moment.

I'm throwing out some aspects of Beast, such as the dark mother, and I think I'm going to get rid of Heroes as well, or at least turn focus away from them.

My idea is that horrors were originally supernal beings that before the fall were able to sate their hungers upon mankind. With the fall and the splitting of the supernal, some of these beings, guided by their hungers, found paths to the dreamscape where they cemented their places in lairs, using beasts to sate their hungers upon the fallen world.

I'm thinking that this change would place the seers of the throne and some pentacle mages as more likely antagonists for beasts. I'm not dead sure, but I think the atavisms and nightmares that beasts receive would make them strong enough to be able to handle combat with mages.

What I'm trying to guage is whether beasts could stand their own in a crossover focusing on mages, and whether they'd feel overwhelmed in a group with a mage player? Also any thoughts on the in setting repercussions of the changes I'm making in the setting would be appreciated.

>>47422880
Any mage overwhelm any group if you give him too much freedom.

>>47422880
Give Beasts a way to remember when time has been changed because they have no way to counter it if they aren't teamed up with Mages. You could just make it a benefit of a custom Epic Eidetic Memory Merit. Beasts should do fine in a crossover game. They can get some pretty nasty Kinship Nightmares from Mages and they are hard for a Mage to actually effect with magic if they take Looming Presence. Beasts are brutal in combat and good at non-intrusive social stuff when dealing with things like spirits and other monsters if they decide to focus on those things.

What about giving beast players each a single form of mage sight? I feel like this would fit the setting with horrors being supernal in origin, and i don't think itd step too much on the toes of any potential mage player.

>>47422663

I really want to see an update for The Quiescent, mostly because I'm curious about what shape they'd take now that vulgar magic doesn't exist anymore.

>>47423208
>The Quiescent
The who?

>>47422880
Beasts are very strong in combat, the actual issue with this cross over is that they have little else to do outside of it. Mages are so overwhelmingly useful at everything, the beasts are going to feel outclassed anytime they aren't actively punching a dozen people at once. It's fine in theory but just be wary of mages who will never ever ever open combat (because they don't have to, they're mages) and remember that Beasts are by default one trick ponies and with best paired with similarly limited splats.

>>47423216

They're from Mge Noir, which is the best Mage supplement of all time and what sold me on the line. Their basic idea is that they believe in working within the constraints of the Lie and never cast vulgar magic, and their Attainments are all about erasing their own pasts.

So I'm going to be running a Geist game soon and the group is looking very underworld/occult journey oriented.

Any advice for running a game set mostly in the great below? I've already got a few domains picked out to be the sorta local neighborhood (Athenaeum, Killing Fields, the Forge, one based on firelink shrine, and Lowgate Prison at the far edge). I'm torn right now on how personable to make the Kerberoi. Something between Cthuthlu and Beetlejuice right now.
The only rules tweak I'm looking at so far is letting them bring others across a river for plasm, but other ideas would be appreciated.

>>47423208
I don't think that repeatedly asking about it here is going to help. Especially since you are using a trip, so that it's obvious it's just one guy asking for it.

Anyhow, did they have mechanical constraints on never casting vulgar spells?

>>47423413
Well you don't really need to add that rule. There are gates in the underworld that allows people to go lower. That way everyone can go through.

>>47423208
Seems like they just wouldn't exist.

>>47423256
Maybe they reject the gross arcana? A weird sect of Guardians who consider the highest magical art Wisdom and never ever incur paradox, like ever? And then also the past erasure thing?

>>47422880
But the Dark Mother and Heroes are interesting.

>My idea is that horrors were originally supernal beings that before the fall were able to sate their hungers upon mankind
The Dark Mother was clearly a protoPangaean, too. Also it was Luna.

>>47422663
I want to see fan created bloodlines and legacies, and I want to see them cover new territory, not just do the same old same old. I want to see stuff that changes up the usual rules, like those Bloodlines that come from two Parent Clans.

>>47423413
The one Kerberoi I used was a big emaciated corpse twice the size of a regular person and with a shroud over his face. He looked like something from Keith Thompson, and was a big scary mummy who was remarkably strong. He challenged the lone sin-eater to a game of wits (from Princess Bride) and the sin-eater mixed the two drinks together and drank half the poison. He was punished with being unable to speak without paying Willpower, and only a whisper, until he got the Kerberoi a Deathmask. So not exactly silent and implacable, but I don't know if I'd call him "personable". Go with something that makes them feel suitably old and ancient and inhuman.

Also, I can't find it in Geist, so it may be Book of the Dead, but I think Sin-eaters can become Ferrymen. There's also >>47423463 though they take heavy tolls. The Kerberoi above was from one of them, and the player had to cut his own hand off to open the door.

>>47423656
>But the Dark Mother and Heroes are interesting.

As someone who doesn't get Heroes; What is the interesting part about them?

Legacy of Space Mages who enchant pieces of stone or metal and hide them around the world forming a perfect web. They goal to cover all planet including bottom of the ocean and to be able to move Earth itself to travel with humanity far far away.

>>47423683
Thats interesting character to roleplay. Not something you can build for yourself, but role of blinded man can be good on its own.

>>47423717
Sounds like an impressive endgame, several million years from now. What are their more immediate goals?

>>47423740
What do you mean?

>>47423656
I've already planned a gate to the Killing Fields that looks like a ww2 era bunker full of medical equipment. They'll have to donate a pint of blood to get through it.

I'll try to check book of the dead again when I home, but being a ferryman would fit one of the characters very well.

>>47423839
Injecting enchanted parts into historical buildings and monuments to ensure no one gonna steal, move, or destroy one.
Expedition to remote places to place enchanted stone.
Watching over this "nodes" and protecting them.

>>47423861
i mean i understand people who want to play as a Hero.

>>47423904
But why? Why???

>>47423683
They're basically just Beasts who decided not to be Beasts. I can't remember if it made it into the final draft or if it was just a fan idea or what, but there was one thing where if you reject the Devouring you become a Hero. Or maybe that's just what Melanie is. Either way, I like that Heroes are deluded and entitled. I really wish I could remember what it comes from, but I remember this one scene in a movie or comic or video game or something where a guy is shouting that he's the hero even when he clearly isn't. He did something to freak everyone out, like beat someone up or something, and was trying to assure everyone that this is his story and he's the hero. Although "this isn't your story" was kind of scrubbed away

Still, I like the fact that in the final draft, Heroes can be good guys who don't kill Beasts and ease their nightmares by trying to soothe the Primordial Dream. I like that they're basically people who's reaction to problems in their life is to lash out for praise and attention. I even like all of the example Heroes except for the one who looks like Mark Strong (I said Henry Rollins last time)

Thaddeus is more than just a neckbeard. He's a great antagonist because he's someone the players will underestimate. Hell, he works great as a Banisher or a Hunter or Abmortal; anything

Marian is great. Old lady catches her son's vampire girlfriend and decides she needs to murder all monsters. Again, fits just about any antagonist group

And best of all is Melanie. Melanie is a tragic, sympathetic villain. She always was. As-written, she doesn't care what kind of Beast she aids in killing. She's just going after all of them so that the Heroes will help her wake up, but none of them do. It's likely that she's killed innocent Beasts. That shit is golden. Your players will either kill her, in which case you make that as emotionally devastating as possible, or they'll try to cure her, in which case you make that as emotionally rewarding as possible

>>47423952
What is better:
Comet is coming to hit the Earth and kill everybody and they trying to save humanity from it.
They hear a voice from eridanus supervoid who calls for them and they believe its the exit from Lie prison there so they trying to bring all their mage and sleeper friends with them. Fuck this lets bring whole planet.

>>47424038
>move the planet
>all life dies anyway because climate
Your idea is dumb, and not the kind of dumb that Mage is built on.

>>47424164
I think you can do something with the climate its not impossible. Like creating a smaller sun in new place that orbit earth instead.

>>47424209
i don't think even archmasters can build new stars, dude. Just let this flight of fancy go.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/897648-midumu-blade-claimed

>>47424029
Now Heroes are just born Heroes and when their Integrity drops low enough they go all stab-happy, like some sort of Beast focused Slasher.

>>47424244
Stars actually simple as fuck, its just really lots of stuff in one place. Small sun is actually can be hard to do.

>>47424273
I mentioned that, yes. I like that. Although that doesn't really void "Heroes as rejection of the Devouring". After all, Beasts are also born Beasts, but they don't come into it until the Devouring.

I can't really remember, but I think there's also some kind of implication that you can Devour someone else, and become their Horror. I may be misremembering, or it could be another fan idea.

>>47424209
You're going full Gonzo. You never go...

Actually this could be fun. Just keep in mind that most people here will assume you either don't understand the game or are just playing around.

Also, since this Legacy puts a lot of work into their project they will want something to show for it. Like establishing useful teleportation networks. Mapping global leylines. Facilitating expeditions into the oceanic depths. Stopping earthquakes from mucking about with their work.

If you want to go less Gonzo, you can keep the Earth where it is. You can say they build a grid to triangulate teleportations onto other planets and make expeditions there. Still too crazy for some games but...

>>47424351
>Gonzo.
Why did I picture Chancellor and Prophet as Statler and Waldorf?

>>47424369
I don't know, but if you figure it out I want in on this.

>>47424369
Also, it clearly should be the Eye and the Ruin.

>>47424273
The low integrity use to be a thing. Now hero's come in all variety of integrity. Its just that high integrity hero's tend to not bother Beast.
They are off teaching people good morals and life lesson.

File: Ochre-Mine-map-Nazca-Irkutsk-alignment[1].png (588KB, 899x340px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 899x340px

>>47424351
Moving thing is not important, i just like the idea of placing markers everywhere and controlling them. Besides there is alot conspiracy theories like picrelated claiming that pyramids, anomalies, ancient cities forms gridlike structure on surface of Earth, i want to play on that idea.

I think keeping the good Heroes out of the game is keeping the Gameline from reaching it's full potential. A Hero that can't be dismissed as a jerk could force the Beast to reevaluate their actions and maybe trigger character growth instead of (or in addition to) killing a person.

It's like - Beasts teach lessons to the world by being beastly. The world teaches Beasts with Heroes.

>>47424528
I think you have a fair point.

>>47424528
But that's not true. Beasts are a monster in the dark that the world doesn't need anymore, and Heroes are a champion of virtue that isn't doing their job. I like that. They're both flawed. Only a Hero that isn't selfish and egotistical is truly free of the cycle. Beasts at least know they're a little outdated.

>>47424455
That is the whole problem with the idea - it's nothing but your weird fetish with no substance or logic behind it. That kind of conspiracy theory /x/ bullshit is something that should be Infrastructure or spirits or fae, not mages doing it because 'why don't we just take the planet and puuuuuuush it somewhere else'.

>>47424528
There is a lot holding Beast back, but not having at least partially sympathetic Heroes is definitely a problem. One of the reasons I like Werewolf so much is because the Pure are understandable and, in specific instances, can even be 'right', and that lets their relationships with the Forsaken be more complex. Heroes (and Beasts) are not complex, and that makes good stories and roleplaying way more difficult.

>>47422841
>Given the opportunity to counter-argue the amazing depth and complexity that has (assumedly) been given to Awakening mages within the second edition of their game.
>Instead gives a kindergarten insult.
Everything I have come to expect from CoD.

>>47424455
That's pretty cool. You can do a lot with that. You can throw in geomantic projects ret-conned by the Fall. Fighting with other supernatural factions to have your resonance win out. Throw in the God-Machine, Mummy architects, Seers and Banishers being contrary. Your Legacy just needs a good goal and some immediate motivation so they don't lose interest.

>>47424528
McFarland has some lousy ideas about morality. He believes antagonists shouldn't be playable, because of that they have to be not worth playing. Unfortunately the first attempt at this just made them jerks.

He's doing it again in Promethean with alchemists. It was easy to do in Demon.

>>47424715
>He's doing it again in Promethean with alchemists
Eh?

File: You are mistaken.png (41KB, 695x409px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 695x409px

>>47424747
Promethean added alchemists as antagonists. They're "less mature" than Ascended Ones, but have more powers and won't have support.

>>47424784

I'm gonna be an alchemist

>>47424818
Prepare to have less fun than the least fun splat.

>>47424579
You make sense. A lot comes down to personal taste, but if I ever ran Beast I would replace Heroes with Imbued from Hunter: The Reckoning.

That way you could have such matches like:
Predator limits themselves to hunting deer and considers themself safe.
vs
Lee Harvey Oswald wannabe Avenger harasses him. Proves that safety requires vigilance.

Tyrant has corrupted the Local law enforcement into aiding and abetting his predations. Doesn't respect the little people.
vs
Defender supports the media, civil movements and fairer authorities in shredding the Monsters assets. Shows what the little people can do together.

>>47424715
You know you can't play the strix in Vampire, right? Or that you can't play a spirit or god forbid a idigam in Werewolf, right?
Nor do I think will you be able to play a Huntsmen.

Antagonists are the enemy. Not a playable option at base.

>>47424715
Oh, yes! I was baffled too.
Reverse-Promeheans? Reaching for the stars, but forgetting where they come from and ruining their own lives in the process? That's a beautiful tragedy that underscores the themes of Promethean. PC Alchemists balancing ambition and self-awareness? There's an entire gameline based on that! Hello, Mage!

>>47424932
The problem is Alchemists and Heroes are human.

>>47424891

Sounds awful, why would you bring oWoD filth here

>>47424965
Then it should be easy enough for you to make an exp chart for them

>>47424932

I can play a strix wannabe

>>47424818
Does anyone else feel that sneering at Alchemists might have made them compelling, while glorification of Beasts backfired?

>>47422663
Holy shit, I was just finishing up reading the last thread while reading up on what the hell mages were or did and I got to Legacies. I realized that Z splats are pretty much my favorite things.

>>47422721
I love Offspring, a game with a Fractal could be hella fun.

>>47424891
Awful because oWOD or awful and oWOD?
I liked some of the ideas in Reckoning, but it's been a long time. I'm not sorry for it, though.
If the horribleness comes from me however, then don't let me off easy. Lay it on me, person.

>>47424999
Agh! I meant to reply to you.

>>47424999
Also, Beast vs Innocent Creed - Hellsing's Alucard vs Bella Swan. If that doesn't get you I surrender.

>>47425008
Belials Brood?

>>47424598
But the Pure aren't right and Heroes can explicitly be sympathetic.

>>47424891
But they ARE practically the Imbued. They get their powers from the Primordial Dream instead of the Messengers. They still have mystical dreams that tell them to kill. The only thing that's missing is a DmC style block letter graffiti and a sinister voice going "KILL DANTE".

>>47425105
What

>>47424932
You can play Belial's Brood or VII, or Pure or Ghost Wolves.

You can't even play a Centimani in new Promethean.

>>47425105
>Hellsing's Alucard vs Bella Swan
She throws herself at him, expecting romance...but he rips her to pieces and feeds her soul to Baskerville.

>>47425137
>But the Pure aren't right
They aren't right about Luna cursing them about silver, they do seem to be right about everything else.

>>47425004
Not the previous guy.
The problem isn't that they're not supported. It's some of the developers' attitude that baffles us.

>>47425105

It just keeps getting worse

>>47425118

No, a vampire that wears a owl costume and hangs around aviaries.

>>47425165
They're right about nothing. You're wrong about what they want and what they hate.

>>47425137
>But they ARE practically the Imbued. They get their powers from the Primordial Dream instead of the Messengers. They still have mystical dreams that tell them to kill. The only thing that's missing is a DmC style block letter graffiti and a sinister voice going "KILL DANTE".
I guess I wasn't clear. Yes, they are practically the Imbued, except the Imbued had more variety, more approaches to monsters, more hooks to make a compelling story.
>What
I was trying to be funny to diffuse the kinda-sorta-not-really antagonizing comment from that Anon.
>>47425145
I'm very wrong if you're right, but wouldn't he consider this too hilarious to not play around first?

>>47425165
They make a mockery of Father Wolf's legacy while claiming that they are the better children. The Ivory Claws are a bunch of elitist blood purity fucks and the Predator Kings want to destroy the world as we know it because of muh hunter's paradise.

>>47425287
>They're right about nothing.
They're right about the Forsaken killing Urfarah and losing Pangaea for everyone.
>You're wrong about what they want and what they hate.
Those who disrespect the hunt, who disrespect the Shadow, who disrespect their family. Forsaken have a big check on the last one, what with abandoning Urfarah's system entirely for Luna's.

>>47425191
How about this?
A bully-strangling Hag vs Petty delinquent

>>47425313
>They make a mockery of Father Wolf's legacy while claiming that they are the better children.
They are, just better children of Urfarah than Luna. They really don't make a mockery of Urfarah's legacy, the Predator Kings hold closest to it of all.

>>47425339
You mean his legacy of making sure everyone stayed on their side of the Border Marches? Because they seem to be shitting on that left and right.

>>47425320
Except the Pangaea they want didn't exist. The Pure are the ones who turned their back on Urfarah's "system". The Forsaken honour the Wolf.

>>47425339
The Predator Kings don't, though. They readily admit that Urfarah was weak and as such deserved to die. They more than any other Tribe choose to ignore his legacy and appoint themselves the masters of the world. If Urfarah lived, they would each and every one of them feel her jaws around their throats. The Pure defile the blessings of one father and pervert or ignore the duties of the other. They're whiny children who feel pissed off that a world of glory was taken from them, but they don't actually want to fulfill the duty that comes with that paradise.

Meanwhile, the Forsaken acknowledge their part in destroying the hunter's paradise and still uphold their sacred duty.

>>47425335

Stop pls

>>47425294
>but wouldn't he consider this too hilarious to not play around first?
Sure why not.

>>47425436
You're right. I've gone too far. I've become the thing I hated. I will stop now.

>>47425395
The Border Marches don't exist anymore. It's all about the hunt now.
>>47425418
>Except the Pangaea they want didn't exist. The Pure are the ones who turned their back on Urfarah's "system". The Forsaken honour the Wolf.
Sure it did, that's why they're trying to bring it back. And the Forsaken just hunt, that's it.
>>47425418
>If Urfarah lived, they would each and every one of them feel her jaws around their throats.
Urfarah wouldn't give a shit. That was his thing, he did not care at all about the Uratha.
>The Pure defile the blessings of one father and pervert or ignore the duties of the other.
They embrace their heritage and disavow Luna, there's no defiling or perverting.
>They're whiny children who feel pissed off that a world of glory was taken from them, but they don't actually want to fulfill the duty that comes with that paradise.
Because they're trying to get that paradise back, and damn the modern world if that's what it takes.
>Meanwhile, the Forsaken acknowledge their part in destroying the hunter's paradise and still uphold their sacred duty.
They didn't have a sacred duty but what Luna gave them.

>>47425451
>>47425294
>>47425145
Alucard is not the type of character to go around murdering naive teenage girls. Alucard would look down on Edward, but he wouldn't kill him, either. I doubt Alucard would care about the stalking, and he'd probably approve of a vampire that doesn't hurt anyone.
Did all these edgy teens watch a different Hellsing or something where Alucard is Always Chaotic Evil and kills random innocents for fun like some kind of edgy hedgehog OC?

>>47425482
No, keep going.

>>47425496
The Pure let spirits do whatever they want. They see the nature of the world as one where Spirits are on top. They don't at all keep any semblance of balance. Meanwhile, the Forsaken do. Some of them even hunt down Urfarah's old enemies, the Hosts, while others face monsters he would have had trouble with, like the Claimed.

Father Wolf was all about the balance. I very much think he'd care if his children were fucking that up, and disavowing the Warding Moon and ignoring the duties of the Wolf is not embracing their heritage. The Forsaken follow Urfarah's will. They uphold the Wolf's duties and follow it's teachings. They exalt their Father in hunting the things he wants hunted and through five of the Firstborn they carry out his desires even as he's dead. The Pure do not. They pervert his goals and ignore the ones that don't suit them. They don't want duty or responsibility, they want power and prestige and supplicants.

The Pure want Pangaea but they don't want to do the things that Father Wolf did. They use the Hunt to satisfy their rage and nothing more.

>>47425497
>No, keep going.
I've got one more in me, seriously now.
Predator who targets defenseless sex-workers and considers themselves righteous.
vs
Visionary who blackmails them into targeting heads of criminal organizations who arguably have it coming, but can strike back.

>>47425497
>Alucard is not the type of character to go around murdering naive teenage girls. Alucard would look down on Edward, but he wouldn't kill him, either. I doubt Alucard would care about the stalking, and he'd probably approve of a vampire that doesn't hurt anyone.
Also, thank you.

>>47425575
>The Pure let spirits do whatever they want.
Untrue. They hunt spirits as well, they just don't care as much about spirits that predate on humans. They'll still hunt and kill spirits they have a problem with.
>They see the nature of the world as one where Spirits are on top.
They're aiming for one where they're on top.
>They don't at all keep any semblance of balance. Meanwhile, the Forsaken do. Some of them even hunt down Urfarah's old enemies, the Hosts, while others face monsters he would have had trouble with, like the Claimed.
The Pure hunt the hosts as well.
>Father Wolf was all about the balance. I very much think he'd care if his children were fucking that up, and disavowing the Warding Moon and ignoring the duties of the Wolf is not embracing their heritage.
You are attributing a lot more virtue to Father Wolf than is demonstrable in his appearance. By all accounts he only cared for the hunt, and didn't give a shit about the Uratha or the First Pack and even barely about the Firstborn.

>The Forsaken follow Urfarah's will. They uphold the Wolf's duties and follow it's teachings. They exalt their Father in hunting the things he wants hunted and through five of the Firstborn they carry out his desires even as he's dead. The Pure do not. They pervert his goals and ignore the ones that don't suit them. They don't want duty or responsibility, they want power and prestige and supplicants.
You think that he hunted because he viewed it as his sacred duty. But it's more likely he hunted because he was a hunter. And he hunted things that crossed the Border Marches because he -was- the Border Marches and wouldn't leave them.

You're also missing a lot about the Pure, and making up a lot of stuff that isn't really shown in the books.

>The Pure want Pangaea but they don't want to do the things that Father Wolf did.
They find the hunt just as sacred as the Forsaken do.
>They use the Hunt to satisfy their rage and nothing more.
No book supports this.

>>47425678
Jesus fucking Christ, I'm not going to have this argument with you again. The Pure aren't "right".

>>47425706
They're as "right" as the Forsaken are.

>>47425712
"I don't want world domination" is objectively more right than "I want world domination"

>>47425575
>Some of them even hunt down Urfarah's old enemies, the Hosts, while others face monsters he would have had trouble with, like the Claimed.
He's right, though. You should probably read the books before you go on these rants. Your overall point is really hard to get across with all the being wrong.

>>47425756
Reminder that the Forsaken are secret fascist spirit police who believe it is not only their duty, but their right, to control how the Shadow, the Gauntlet, and the Fallen World intersect. They want to be in charge, too, they just don't want to be open about it.

>>47425756
"We could have ruled de worl' together Gru. But now, you're gonna die."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM5Y737AdBQ
Apologies for the abysmal quality of this one.

>>47425756
It's more "I want my world back." The PK and FT could care less about the world except as a way to get Pangaea.

>>47425817
Les Mysteres please go.

>>47425817
>Reminder that the Forsaken are secret fascist spirit police who believe it is not only their duty, but their right, to control how the Shadow, the Gauntlet, and the Fallen World intersect.
Very little control over the Gauntlet, that's a Host thing.
>They want to be in charge, too, they just don't want to be open about it.
That's just it, they don't. They want Luna to be in charge, because she's their master.

>>47425790
I'm right or he's right? The Pure deal with Spirits, the Hosts, and Claimed, but they do it only when they get in their way. They don't do it as a way to try to fulfill Father Wolf's duty. And Forsaken as a game is all about inherited duty.

>>47425817
>>47425866
These are both explicitly untrue. The Forsaken want balance. Luna is not "their master", and even then, her purpose is literally the protection of the spiritual wellbeing of the planet.

>>47425866
You're right. The Nazi's didn't want to control Germany at all, they only cared about Hitler having it, too.

>>47425902
>These are both explicitly untrue. The Forsaken want balance. Luna is not "their master",
Yet they swear an aath to do what she wants.
>and even then, her purpose is literally the protection of the spiritual wellbeing of the planet.
You have very exaggerated ideas of what Urfarah and Luna are about. Luna is a spirit, she's an alien being who would only protect someone if it served her own interests (her own interest being filling her essence-sack).

>>47425971
A spirit of protection exists to protect.

>>47425902
>I'm right or he's right? The Pure deal with Spirits, the Hosts, and Claimed, but they do it only when they get in their way.
You said they didn't hunt Hosts before, which was wrong. But Forsaken hunt when stuff gets in their way too. Pure hunt spider hosts down on sight.

File: World of Cheeriness.png (434KB, 469x691px) Image search: [Google]

434KB, 469x691px

>>47426020
>spirit of protection

Thats Technocracy X Traditions level of discussion. You arguments doesnt really matter.

>>47426020
To be a spirit of protection, something needs to have something to be protected against. A spirit of protection has reason to want to harm to come to whatever it's protecting.

Like Chris' hospital spirit. It's a spirit of healing. So it works to hurt people so they'll need to be healed.

File: Mentor Spirits.gif (864KB, 500x261px) Image search: [Google]

864KB, 500x261px

>>47426020
>spirit of protection
depends on the type of Protection it is giving.

>>47426069
this

>>47426080
I think the worse part is that, for the Spirit, this makes perfect sense.

Why mages dont have strict rules for ascension?
Changeling have rules to unmolest themselves.
Old Wraith have rules to their analog of ascension.
Prometheans have rules to become less boring mortal.
Hell even vampires have something that looks like rules for something that looks like spiritual achievement.
So why mage is an exception?

>>47426152
>So why mage is an exception?

The devs and writers hate Mage, so they fuck them over at every opportunity

>>47426152
The same reason werewolves have rules for bodhisattva-hood. It's something uncommon enough to not warrant room in the core book and there's only one supplement out between them.

Pouring over the Dark Eras book, I've been thinking about how a ghost skinchanger would work. In the book it says that using a spirit's skin gives you their Bane and Ban, but nothing about ghosts. Do you think that while changed they'd be tied to that ghost's fetters for purposes of Manifestations or Influences?

>>47426042
They let the Beshilu run rampant though.

File: Ghouuuuls.jpg (240KB, 600x405px) Image search: [Google]

240KB, 600x405px

I'm getting more and more excited for V20 Ghouls and V20 Lore of the Bloodlines...

So excited. Squee!

Speaking of the Hosts, can shartha infest major templates?

>>47426464
>V20
Why cling to the rotting edifice of oWoD?

>>47426464
Are those coming out soon?

>>47426464
>V20 fan
>squee
This is well-crafted.

>>47426540
/wodg/ produces only the finest bait.

>>47426490
>shartha
what?

>>47426576
First Tongue word for the Hosts
Step up, nazusul

>>47426490
I'd say no in 1e, big yes in 2. It may be a plot point in our current game, the ST created a new kind and one of the werewolves we stumbled across was trying to put them into humans but they just won't go in. My wolf has a theory that they can only go in vampire bodies and we're gonna try it out next time we catch one.

>>47426490
I was wondering about Hosts and Major templates myself, maybe have a Reaper Legacy of Thyrsus with Death (Attainments are Death+Spirit, optional Life) that have been fused with the Uglathlu.

>>47426624
>Testing out a theory about a captured Host's interaction with a specific type of host body
>Not just killing it

>>47426675
You're no fun, I hope you step on a Lego Spirit and it rips your leg off.

>>47426490
Mages and Changelings probably yes. Mummies, Prometheans, Werewolves, and Demons no. Not sure if Vampires and Sin-Eaters could be viable hosts.

>>47426675
There's trillions of them. It's awful. They fill the Gauntlet wherever you look, piled on top of one another higher than a man's height. We were thinking about ways to deal with them and if you found a way to kick them out of the Gauntlet they would drown the city (and surroundings) in their numbers.

Plus you can't fight them. They're IN the Gauntlet. You can reach across, and be swarmed by thousands of them and come out a popcicle on the other side. The only werewolf we know can survive reaching does it because she can turn her skin to metal.

We also have a vampire problem. We took out one of the rulers, but the others are just going to reinforce their defenses. Some sort of arrangement with the new host could take advantage of them and take care of the vampire problem from within.

If it works in the first place.

>>47426720
>Sin Eaters
There's a big "no vacancy" sign in front of the Geist flipping the middle finger if I recall correctly.

>>47426624
Whats the new kind of host?

>>47426788
This sounds like the Lamprey Hosts that Chris wrote up a while back, to me.

>>47426797
they sound like Glacier Hosts from the whole Popsicle comment here>>47426788

>>47426490
If 2E Forsaken ever gets a sourcebook for antagonists, I'd really appreciate some page count devoted to how Host infestation and Spirit Possesion and/or Claiming interacts with all the major templates.

>>47426797
Haplu. They're gators, I think. Maybe just lizards. I posted about them the last thread I was in, it was a while ago but we found out more about them.

They steal heat (real and conceptual). Some werewolf brought them over from Siberia.

>>47426849
Aligators in Siberia? What is this, Kojima game?

Just how many types shartha are we up to now? Going by official material only.

>>47426868
I want Mantis Hosts now, dammit.

>>47426868
They were probably brought there, too.

The only good thing about it is they seem to be lazy. They just sit there in heaps. They crawl all over each other and get more active if they're near a source of heat but otherwise just grab things passing through the Gauntlet as far as we've seen. Though occasionally there's big hulking ones that know we're there even before we look.

>>47426913
We haven't gotten any new ones in 2e yet.

Mechanically 1e has given us wolf, spider, rat, snake, locust and crow. Maybe cat.

With rumors of many more.

>>47426913
Spiders, rats, locusts, worms, snakes, crows, leeches, and lampreys. I might have missed a couple.

>>47426913
Eight. Spiders, Rats, Crows, Snakes, Fungus, Wolves (They are NOT of the People), Worms and Locusts.

>>47426965
Leeches and Lampreys were introduced in The Pack, right?

>>47426965
>worms
Right, worms, fungus and wolves are all in the night horrors book.

>>47426996
Bangkok Hunting Ground section.

>>47426996
Think one of them was mentioned there, but created on the forum.

>>47426918
>Mantis Hosts
And now I'm trying to figure out how those would even work.

>>47426996
>Leeches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPfMOvjuwK0

>>47426966
>Fungus
Your warform is a white, almost invisible net that just laying around growind mushrooms?

>>47427072
I'd take a page out of Shadowrun, and make them prey on other hosts.

>>47427137
I like that idea.

>>47427125
Hosts aren't shapeshifters. They're animals that crawl inside other things and hijack then mutate the body to make it more useful.

>>47426493
>Why cling to the rotting edifice of oWoD?
Because I find it more fun than CoD.

Long story short, I find the WoD-setting to be more interesting and more serious than CoD, even if it does dip into "grimderp" quite a few times.

>>47424029
>Either way, I like that Heroes are deluded and entitled.
Daily reminder that Heroes are the good guys of Beast.

>>47427165
>I find the WoD-setting to be more interesting
That's fair
>and more serious than CoD
whaaaaaaaat?

>>47427125
>>47427164
To put it another way, the Warform of Fungus Hosts is this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matango

>>47427195
Space cruisers orbiting Jupiter is serious and important in game about Modern Magick!

>>47425756
This is incorrect.

File: host of the clutter.jpg (620KB, 1733x1320px) Image search: [Google]

620KB, 1733x1320px

Everyone forgets about these guys.

>>47427298
I love that fucking book.

>>47427137
I can only imagine how rustled that would make the Mennina.

>>47426152
There is no one way to ascension. There are an infinite+1 ways to do so. So it would be limiting for them to say how.

>>47427577
Plus
>become a supernal symbol
>only do anything when you've been summoned by a mage
isn't the most fun of games

>>47427298

Collection of Horrors should feel like it spoils the magic of Horror Recognition Guide but instead it improves on it.

>>47427626
They send out Ochamata to do their will. So you're wrong there.

What kind of fun stuff happens in CofD Hawaii?

>>47428293
Changelings are the Hawaii master race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIwUjrvaXjM

>>47428293
I actually did a Hunter game during the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy. The plantation owners were actually hunters and part of why they wanted to take over and be annexed by the U.S. is because the tribal religion allowed and even encouraged communion with spirits, leading to Lava-Claimed stalking and murdering whites by boiling them alive in their grasp.

>>47426720
>>47426794
Sin-eaters (and Death Masters) can't be possessed in usual circumstances.

AEEEEEEEEEEEON

I've read Mage 2e and even after finishing the book, I still got some questions:
Regarding Creative Thaumaturgy: Can I add two different Arcana in the same spell? And how does it work if I want to use two different practices within the same Arcanum? It feels like (in the first situation) I have to use the Combined Spells rule, which feels very wrong to me.

I did not read the 1e.

>>47429288

In 2017, probably. Scion 2e looks like it's going to get its release first.

>>47429411
>• Gnosis allows your character to combine multiple spells into a single casting, to get around limitations on numbers of active spells. At Gnosis 3, a mage can combine two spells into one casting. At Gnosis 6, she can combine three. And at Gnosis 9, she can combine four spells.

>>47429605
That's not what he's talking about.

That's for keeping up multiple (say) shielding spells without costing spell control.

He's asking about e.g. using both Matter and Life Patterning to transform a book into a cat.

Which you can do, but the highest arcanum is used to determine everything about the spell, iirc.

>>47426464
>Excited for oWoD anything

>>47429411
>>47429605
A spell that uses 2 Arcanum just rolls the highest Arcanum or whichever one the effect is mostly based on(EG Life 4 Matter 4 to turn someone to stone would roll Life, to turn a book into a dog would probably be Matter, based on what they're effecting)

Using multiple Practices with one Arcanum requires a Combined spell, though(EG Patterning Space to redefine your own "Down" as "The direction the bottoms of my feet are facing", and an Unraveling of Space to cut out the distance between you and a point on top of a skyscraper you can see, so you can get there in one step.)

Granted, by the time you need Combined Spells for anything, you've already got the Gnosis necessary to use them.

>>47429605
Not exactly what I asked for, but thanks.

>>47429696
Thanks, anon.

>>47429768
So, the Space spell you mentioned: Couldn't you just teleport to the skyscraper by realocating yourself using Patterning Space?

>>47429874
You could, but if you wanted to walk on the side of it(which is what I was trying to suggest), you'd have to use a Combined Spell to make yourself stick to the building.

>>47429914
Awwwwwwwwwww fuckkk I see it
I get it, thanks again!! That was really helpful.

Is there a Mastigos Legacy focused on Fate that I've missed?

I mean, as it says in the Acanthus blurb, a Mastigos cannot truly have free will unless he can manipulate the grandiose plan the Universe has for him.

>>47431077
>Is there a Mastigos Legacy focused on Fate that I've missed?
There's three. The Subtle Ones, the Sphinx and the Path of the Book.

>>47431136
Ah, thanks man.
I guess there's room for one more then.

File: Trinity collection.png (2MB, 847x877px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 847x877px

>>47422714
>>47429288
>>47422732
So since we're talking about it I have to mention how stoked I am for the reboot/rebuild/whatever it is. Mostly due to nostalgia and a lack of scifi tabletop these days, but there is some hope that they'll do a good job with it.

It was one of the things that got me started with tabletop role playing games. Found the old (before the lawsuit) black plastic bound book in a bin at the libraries "We've got too many books so you can buy them for a quarter each." section along with Earthdawn, Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade, and Nephilim Some day I shall find an anon willing to translate the French books. And while I'm dreaming, the german Engel line too. That was one hell of a summer for me.

>>47431811
>lack of scifi tabletop

>Numenera
>Eclipse Phase

I bet you don't like them because you're a fucking misogynistic bigot republican pig

>>47431913
Don't like Numenera because I haven't had a chance to play it yet, and lingering wariness over Monte Cook.
Eclipse Phase is decent and was really fun to read, but came off as more of a 'lets build this awesome setting. Hey wait we could totally run a game in this!' as opposed to making a game.

I'm also a vaguely misogynistic apathetic-tolerant socialist human, if it matters.

So who has put Pangaean in the modern era? How did it go, what did you do to build up to the Pangaeans reveal.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/898408-whimsy-musings-manifestations-keys-in-2e

>>47433269
I don't personally feel the Pangean has any place in the modern era.

>>47433597
All it'd require you to do is find a heartstone and carcass and return it.

>>47433676
There's at least two in the setting already

But there's not that many posters here, even less who run games, even less who run games that might have Pangaeans, etc

I'll probably do it when its my turn to run again but that won't be for a while

>>47426720
Werewolves can be claimed, they can probably get hollowed out by a host too.

>>47428321
>no change of seasons
I'M COMING CHILDREN!

>>47431811

Have you seen the preview of what the new system looks like? StoryPath looks promising.

>>47423256
>Mage the Awakening does not have consensual reality.
>Spend books and books trying to hammer this home, that we're not at all like our Dad in the Order of Hermes, no, this universe isn't human-centric or anything!
>Book says that Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier changed how sound-related magic worked.
>Not how people thought about sonic magic, no, how it worked.
>Best Mage supplement.
And that's beyond the most ridiculously narrow definition of a historical period ever used in one of their historical supplements.

>>47434226
Where was that?

>>47425143
>Centimani will not be playable
You have to be kidding me.

>>47434662
>>47425143
Someone please fire Matthew MacFarland
He clearly is the kind of guy who spends hours arguing with someone about how they're having badwrongfun, which is not the right kind of person to be the developer of a roleplaying game.

>>47434662
It's nice that I'm being told my favorite Promethean character can't be played anymore. She went Centimani for a while because she decided the New Dawn was a chumps game, and if you have to be a stitched up corpse monster you might as well be the best stitched up corpse monster you can be while also not getting eaten by Pandorans.

This is also why Promethean worked really well as a solo game.

>>47434662
>>47434856
>>47435257
Is there even a source for this wild accusation, or what? Matt is the person who did Promethean 1e, you know.

>This is also why Promethean worked really well as a solo game.
That is definitely true. My ST ended up splitting us up every so often and ran three concurrent games that sometimes overlapped. It worked well. Especially all the times I fucked things up for everyone else.

>>47433733
Funnily enough, i think they talk somewhere about one of the Maeljin having Urfaras body.

Is there a place to download Beast? I checked the pastebin in the op but the Uguu link has expired, and it's not in the mega.

>>47433748
Uratha can't normally be Claimed unless an Idigam forces the process. Though oddly enough, while werewolves can't be Claimed normally, they can apparently be Possesed, with only their PU rating offering protection beyond what mortals get.

>>47436220
Uratha can totally be claimed my man. the pure let themselves be claimed on the regular because it makes them VERY strong.

>>47424528
>>47424579
Although I really hate the Beast and its whole concept (really, it's most retarded line yet), I think that fun way of connecting Beast with modern age would be a Beast who teaches value of data backups by deleting her victim's hard disks.

>>47425756
You should look up definition of word "objectively"

>>47425021
Ah, that's just Matt: he does more due with cut-and-dry denigration than he does with highly wrought praise because his concepts are poorly communicated and his theming is always a degree off

File: confused guy.png (298KB, 600x512px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 600x512px

>>47425143
>>47434662
>Centimani will not be playable

>>47436247
I can't think of anything more objective than world domination being a bad thing.

>>47436260
Quick clarification: Unless something got real mixed up in development (and maybe it did) that's not the case. That's what I was trying to get across. I'm gonna go now.

>>47436167
4shared or 7 chan, same as everything else

>>47426720
>>47426794
>>47429260
>>47433748
>>47436220
>>47436240

I'm beginning to see where >>47426841 is coming from. Some clarafication on what can't bodysnatch who in 2E would be kinda welcome at this point.

>>47436423
Anything that resonates with a spirit's influences can be claimed unless they're specifically called as not being claimable, surely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asRi8LcdAus
Roach Host?

>>47436240
>the pure let themselves be claimed on the regular because it makes them VERY strong.
>"Sandvich make me strong."
Damn, now I wan't to play a Pure version of the Heavy.

How would you make Hawk Shapeshifter? For me they would be extroverts whose voices are carried by the wind as they soar through the sky...unfortunately this translates to none of them having anything even remotely resembling an inside voice...also the sample character is a shout out to Prince Vultan.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/679704-playable-artifical-intelligences

>>47436281
Ok, now ask yourself: Is it bad for everyone? Is it good for everyone? Or rather good for those who dominate the world and kinda bad for those who are being dominated? And there you have the subjectivity.

>>47436721
YES!

Would Singing to do magic be a mudra or a mantra. Would the kind of song be yantra as well?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=altAZOeEe7g

Alright so I'm doing a little groundwork for a Mage 2E game I might boot up in the next few weeks. A prospective player, reviewing 2E for the first time, proposed that you could allocate the 5 dots of merits from taking the merit "Masque" up to 5, into another 5 dots in another Masque. Effectively creating some kind of face/off character who can impersonate a ridiculous number of people (Equal to their max willpower in fact) but only in sequence.

Now, as far as I can tell, there's no ACTUAL written rule that would prohibit this use. PLEASE for the love of god tell me if there actually is. As it stands, he argued that despite the ridiculousness of the situation, the merit remains balanced for it since if you aren't gaining say, a 5 dot fighting style instead. I mean technically you still do, but only on your 'deepest' mask where your willpower is capped very low. IE your character isn't actually all that much 'stronger' for having Masque at this point, just VERY versatile (Access to a huge number of potential virtues, vices, skill specialties, nimbus tilts and inured spells with a minute or two of prep time. Most of these can be replicated with some spell or other.).

I'm missing some points but his argument was partially convincing at least. I'd be very interested to know how other people weigh in on this.

File: centimani are playable.png (115KB, 1008x908px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1008x908px

>>47436307
>Quick clarification: Unless something got real mixed up in development (and maybe it did) that's not the case. That's what I was trying to get across. I'm gonna go now.
glad Matt changed his mind, but he should probably say so.

>>47437429
Well. This is one of the reasons people are afraid of the Guardians of the Veil. They could be anyone. If they are of the (Legion) they REALLY could be anyone.

>>47434226
It changed how it worked because before that Mages didn't know it was possible.

An imago is formed from your thoughts. You can't cast a spell that you can't imagine.

Anyone with the right Arcana CAN cast the spell that Echo Walkers are famous for, for example. It's just that almost nobody thinks "I should knock aside someone's soul and 'look past' it into their primordial self!" because WTF why would someone think to do that.

>>47437462
"No mechanical support" and "not really the intent" are far from the same thing.
It's "not really the intent" that players should play Seers of the Throne either.

>>47437464
You never know, maybe your childhood friend is secretly working for secret mage police and now you are going to the mage gulag.

>>47436220
Actually anyone can be claimed now, there's nothing that says it can't be used on supernatural beings. They do get a better resistance pool for it, though.
>>47436240
>the pure let themselves be claimed on the regular because it makes them VERY strong.
As do the Forsaken, there's a rite for it and everything.

>>47437474
>"No mechanical support" and "not really the intent" are far from the same thing.
The centimani are both.
>I do hope they are presented as fully playable group instead of as meant to be NPCs.
>They're not.

There's another post where he talks about how he wouldn't stop you from tearing apart the mechanics and reverse engineering it.

>>47437429
>Immersion (•••••): Choose up to five Merit dots. When your character dons her Masque, she gains access to these Merits. These Merits must be logical parts of the identity, at Storyteller discretion, and cannot include further Masques.

>>47436281
>I can't think of anything more objective than world domination being a bad thing.
Really?

If the world was conquered under one ruler, most international conflicts would be eradicated. African "presidents" who refused food to help their people because they're not given enough bribes would be gone. Shit, all that military spending could go right into education or healthcare because there's no one else to fight.

>When she’s in an Order Sanctum, she’s considered to have a Medium sympathetic connection to all members of the Order.

Holy Balls that's frightening

>>47437486
They don't send people to prison. They either delude or kill.

So Shadow Names are no longer required, since just knowing someone's name isn't enough to Space them anymore?

>>47437577
Of course! They already in prison!

>>47437591
They are. Names are just as necessary as in 1e. It was possible to do it without their name then too. Then, as well as now, it was just a difficulty increase.

>>47437622
The lost sympathetic connetion describes co-workers (but not friends) and non-treasured possessions.

You need to actually know people thouh, not just their name

>>47437654
If you don't ALSO know their Sympathetic Name, the Withstand will be worse.

How would Mages in general react to one who instead of racing to Master got 1 dot in all 10 arcana and then leveled them equally (except Prime, since it's the most "universal" and chargen requires you to have a primary arcana)

>>47437717
Gnosis is gnosis.

>>47437725
Character in question is intentionally not raising his gnosis because he doesn't yet have 2 dots in all the secondary arcana.

I feel like the consillium should look down on him as a completionist autist, but I'm not sure. Would the Mysterium consider this good since he's getting ALL the magic?

>>47437742
I mean not your gnosis as stat, but your gnosis as "knowledge" silly.

>>47437717
You'd get a reputation as being very odd.
With no focus or lens to your Magic.
I mean, your personal progression is up to you, but generally a Mage had a specific area or focus.

Going completely without one would be extremey strange.
They'd also wonder how you could get anything done without the more advanced Practices.

Does the Mage 2e rulebook have a Potency table? Im trying to look for one.

>>47437941
Appendix, pg. 326

>>47437941
No, the description just tells you it goes +1 per -2 to dice pool.

File: potency table.png (43KB, 584x140px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 584x140px

>>47437941
Not really. Doesn't need one.

>>47437964
Can you mix Potency increases with Withstand increases, or does reaching for Withstand mean you can't increase Potency?

When your mage is designed around rituals, discovery and research what do you when gm puts you in a situation where you infiltrate enemy sanctums?

>>47437979
What are you talking about?
I think you've misunderstood stuff completely.

>>47437979
Wha?

Raising Potency is the only way to get over Withstand, there is no "reaching for Withstand"

>>47437994
sigh at the lack of gm competence

then back out and perform rituals before going back in

>>47437997
>>47438007
I mean can I take a -8 to increase Potency by 4, then Reach and take another -4 to increase my spell's Withstand by 4.

Or does Reaching to Advanced (Withstand) mean I can't increase the Potency of the same spell?

>>47438032

All spells Withstand with their Potency rating.

Advanced Potency just increases the Potency by 2 more for the purposes of Withstanding, as a binary thing. You either do it or you don't, there's no scaling factor to it.

>>47438051
ooooooooooooooohhhh......

My bad

So what do you think about MachineIV's Hunter Orgs on the Onyx Path forums?

>>47438051
>All spells Withstand with their Potency rating.
No. Spells Withstand with your Arcanum rating.

>>47438097
The Merrick Institute sounds pretty cool. It's the kind of Hunter org I wanted to see; more about humans delving into the other realms. I could only manage to roll my eyes at Yuri's Group. I can't imagine anyone bellying up to a table and saying they want to play one, so it'll get consigned to the rubbish heap of Hunter compacts alongside the Talbot Group and the Keepers of the Source.

How would you flavor a Mad that has an Obsession with the Abyss? The more time they spend fueling their Obsession, the more the lies of the Abyss pour into the cracks in their soul?

>>47438239
I thought abyss was real. Shitty but real.

Post Apocalypric mage where world is overlt consumed by Abyss. Scelesti and Aswadim control the plains of the fallen world. Seers have locked themselves up in their cities where they rein over sleepers. In the Abyssal wastelands sleepers with no hope try to survive and are consumed by Abyssal entities. Abyssal Verges emerge often

>>47438339
What?

>>47438339
And apocalypse was about legacy of mages trying to mass Ascend the world. Again.

>>47438332

The Abyss shouldn't exist, can't exist, and doesn't exist. But it does. That's the Paradox, and the ultimate source of the Lie.

>>47437514
AHahahah oh man thanks I can't believe I missed that because of the page break.

So Deathbdeals with abscence. Can anyone list stuff that it could cover?

Darkness
Cold
Silence

Any others?

>>47438339
Yuck, pass.
If I wanted to play a game of Mages in an overt hellhole, then I'd play something else.

>>47438413
I think lie is constructed from supernal realm specially to keep humans inside cos they are dangerous to supernal. Imagine millions of mages trying to do stuff without paradox restraining them.

>>47434078
Not yet no, just heard that they're doing it.

>>47438802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHUSkyslMQ

File: 1347640550202.jpg (142KB, 800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 800x1200px

Does anyone have those character concepts from ventrue clanbook? If so, would you mind posting them?

>>47439237
Is that Quistis and Harley Quinn?

>>47424029

>but I remember this one scene in a movie or comic or video game or something where a guy is shouting that he's the hero even when he clearly isn't. He did something to freak everyone out, like beat someone up or something, and was trying to assure everyone that this is his story and he's the hero. Although "this isn't your story" was kind of scrubbed away

Tucker & Dale vs Evil.

>>47438413
>The Abyss shouldn't exist, can't exist,
yeah no other game has a realm of impossible monstrosities like the far reaches

>>47438720
Yeah. It does those already.

>>47425418

>They're whiny children who feel pissed off that a world of glory was taken from them, but they don't actually want to fulfill the duty that comes with that paradise.


Huh, so the Pure are Social Justice Warriors.

>>47439346
Yes! That was it. The one teen who kept trying to kill Tucker and Dale for being creepy dumb hillbillies. God I love that movie. It's the perfect companion piece to Cabin in the Woods.

>>47439570
/pol/, pls go

>>47437501

You can reverse engineer any major splat to play its antagonists (even Heroes), so I've never really gotten why people get disappointed that the antagonists factions don't get full support when book length and word count is always a concern.

>>47438810

http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/trinitycontinuum/

First page is mostly faction previews, but the second and third page should have the StoryPath teasers back when it was called "Codename: Sardonyx".

>>47440009
Hell its super easy to play a strix. Dread powers effectively cost 4exp each.

And its not like the developers are saying its impossible, just not the standard.

>>47440009
>>47440077
Yeah, it's almost as if these games have "themes" or something...

>>47437742
No, ooc it's completionist autism because it's you manipulating a character around a game mechanic, but ic it'd be the mage equivalent of being a dilettante. And like in every other field, having a shallow knowledge of a broad spectrum is impressive to novices, but quaint to experts.

>>47440239
>but ic it'd be the mage equivalent of being a dilettante. And like in every other field, having a shallow knowledge of a broad spectrum is impressive to novices, but quaint to experts.

That's what I was missing, thanks anon

File: 1462922549338.jpg (194KB, 774x1032px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 774x1032px

So, I'm hacking apart how I'm going to sell the setting of Mage to people only partly familiar with it. IN PARTICULAR, quite unfamiliar with the aspect I want to focus this campaign on pretty hard (And have never been able to properly drag myself through the lit for), the Ascension War. Not as in, actually running to Archmage tier, but the Pentacle v Seers conflict at street to global level.

I want Astral travel to be a decent sized component of play. Anyway, I suppose I was wondering how to get across to the PCs that their actions still have some relevance outside of achieving their own ascension, when 'gods' basically control the very nature of what is real from the supernal. Also, the implication that they may in fact revise what is real retroactively from time to time.

Like, the fact that the Pentacles exist is testament to the Exarchs lacking full control, but surely all manner of Lich type entities are likewise futile if from time to time minor power shifts between the Oracles and Exarchs result in butterfly effect revisions that result in anyone short of archmastery never being born, or being born with a sillier hat.

Has anyone ever come up with a good way to well, communicate the idea of the Seers to Mage PCs from first principles? Easy enough to say "Yeah they got mindraped by the mad, evil gods that make everything in the world terrible and are being bribed to wipe out magic" but the next wave of scrutiny after that is a little harder for me to consider how to deal with.

If Pangaean have arcana do they get the attainments as well?

>>47440676
On a related note, aren't you like, hella likely to run into ludicrous quantities of other Mages in the Astral as soon as you get past the Temenos? Simply by virtue of the same 'hub' area existing for an entire planet worth of awakened. Like I realise that the probability that any given cabal is in the Astral at a given time is very low, and there's some time dilation happening at that point, but Mages are implied to have relatively high numbers over the globe, and seem to generally find Astral travel pretty intuitive even as Apostates with no Concilium or Seer contact. But the Astral is usually portrayed as pretty empty of them?

>>47440009
>I've never really gotten why people get disappointed that the antagonists factions don't get full support when book length and word count is always a concern.
Because they're not going to get support at any time, unless the developer changes.

They're just going to stay shallow unlikable characters like the Heroes.

And in turn, the protagonists are going to be just as shallow.

>>47440676
Ascend or die tryin

>>47440744
They probably take precautions to NOT run into one another, because you never know whether the mage you run into will be from a different faction or left-handed. You may not die if you get killed in the Astral, but there are ways to get stuck there or worse.

I think a Tremere House whose members are hosts to Ulgathlu would be quite cool.

>>47440884
So make it. Write it up and share it.

>>47439244
No its Jeanette and her Sister Therese. They are a Malkavian.

>>47440744
I don't know where you get that there are relatively high numbers of mages. There's few of them that if the entire world where devoid of everyone but Mages, you could travel forever and never see another Mage. The Astral is empty because it's big. It's like wandering through Wyomming and expecting to see another person.

>>47440676
It's not really that major a thing. Most people's lives aren't written completely out of reality and the Seers also aren't mindraped. They're often willing servitors, or at the very least working for the winning team or simply afraid of the fact that the Exarchs are the winning team. It's the same reason people work for governments like North Korea without being mindraped. Or even working for companies like Exxon and Walmart. There's incentives and benefits.

>>47438720
Absence of interaction is covered by Twilight state.
Lack of taste and smell? Making air stale and food cardboard like?

>>47440744
The Astral is Big, while the number of Mages who travel it at any given time is relatively small. However, I agree that places like the Omphalos will have someone in them disproportionately often. Other Mages might just want to stay nearby and see who they run into. Meeting enemy Mages is very common so they probably just stare at each other awkwardly and then either make excuses to leave or have a go at each other.

>>47441229
Astral camping GO!

>>47440901
Okay, originally they were a Thyrsus Reaper legacy which used their knowledge of Spirit and Death to graft things from the Shadow into their Patterns, given the parameters for becoming a host to the Worms you can guess how well that went. Turns out gluing Spirits to your Pattern essentially creates a backdoor into your soul through the Gauntlet which lets all sorts of horrible things in. The entire legacy was infected by the Worms pretty much overnight. This warped their attainments from "Graft Spirits onto yourself." into "Pull Spirits into your body and feed them to the Worms in your soul to create Wounds." and "Infect people with your Legacy.". Then the Legacy got subsumed by the Tremere and was reborn as House Kyuss which, believe it or not, only made things worse.

Aside from being able to extend their lives by eating souls, House Kyuss hasn't changed much, well they had all the morality of a dead kipper to begin with so becoming part of a bunch of horrifying magic vampires didn't cause much panic. Alongside their Attainments which (surprise) weren't really affected by being made into part of the Tremere, they also have an Essence score which they replenish by eating Spirits alive and a set of Numina from the Worms infesting their bodies.

I currently have four ideas for their attainments:

>Their first Gnosis 2 Attainment lets them create a beacon for Spirits of Drepavity and Vile Acts to home in on, they can either use this to poison the hunting grounds of werewolves, or call up a quick snack.
>Their second Gnosis 2 Attainment lets them grab any nearby Spirit and straight up eat it.
>Their final Attainment basically lets them indoctrinate either regular Thyrsus or ones who are part of a Legacy into their House (note that the second option ALWAYS results in the Mage going Mad.)
>Their 6 Gnosis Attainment lets them tear open a Wound into the shadow with a swipe of their Hand.

>>47441283
And because I couldn't add it to my first post, i'm thinking that their 4 Gnosis Attainment will let them twist the Influences of a Spirit into something...more to their liking.

>>47440823

Heroes are shallow because they're written and developed to be shallow in the first place. It's a horrible idea when they're the only antagonists in the game but it is what it is. Full support and mechanics to play them was never going to change that. Centimani, even without all of the support of a PC Refinement (and unlike Beast, the 1e material is right there) still have weight because saying "fuck this Pilgrimage thing" is still understandable, especially when potential entry Refinements like Stannum exist. It also doesn't make Prometheans any more shallow, because they still get a variety of philosophies to approach their Pilgrimage.

How the antagonist is approached in a game's development certainly matters, but I don't buy the idea that PC support is mandatory for sympathy or depth. It's welcome, but it's the icing on the cake, not necessarily the batter.

>>47441355
+1

>>47441355
But if the consumer who buys the book generally want the option, and adding it doesn't set back the rest of the book substantially, shouldn't it be an easy addition? Shouldn't pleasing the readers be more important than a developers personal reservations?

>>47441355
But Heroes are nowhere near as shallow as people think they are. I've repeatedly talked about how interesting a Hero can be as an antagonist, even if your characters aren't Beasts.
Also, honestly Centimani have always felt pretty shallow to me, and I hate people who constantly want to play one. It goes against the theme of the game and I can definitely see why they wouldn't want to make that an option in the core. They're an antagonist splat through and through, and much like Banishers and Heroes and Belial's Brood and Slashers, they serve as an example of what NOT to do as a player character.
"Fuck this Pilgrimage thing" should not be a supported player option because the game is about the pilgrimage.

>>47441719
Why should it? Just because the readers want it doesn't mean it adds anything to the game. There's also a limited amount of space for these books. More so than usual, considering they're essentially greatest hits volumes, and fixing the mistakes of the previous editions while providing more focus for general games.

>>47441283
>they also have an Essence score which they replenish by eating Spirits alive and a set of Numina from the Worms infesting their bodies.
Up until this, it sounded cool
But this is just wildly unnecessary "look at how cool my unique z-splat is" wankery
I'd say just make eating spirits an Oblation, and have one or more of their Attainments give an optional thing with the secondary Arcanum that gives you the ability to mimic a Numen

Anything beyond that is fansplat-tier level garbage

>>47436500
The Spy is just a Mekhet with Obfuscate 4.

>>47441008
Well I mean, from the perspective of the Pentacle though. They would very much prefer it if initiate mages thought of the Seers as being mind controlled into it rather than it being a difference of opinion and interrelated forces beyond their control. I mean SOME seers are mindraped into it though. The ones with Exarch aligned dreams.

And I was picturing there being like, 100-ish Mages (Concilium, Seers, Apostates and Left Handeds included) in say, a given US state capitol, with probably another half dozen over a US state equivalent area who are isolated from power blocs either deliberately or incidentally.

The very fact that Concilia are stated to be pretty numerous worldwide and every Concilium needs AT LEAST 6 members of each (of the diamond at least) order to function in any real sense kind of implied as much to me.

The way Concilia function implies relatively high numbers I guess. And I realise that Supers in WoD/CoD tend to group up in major hunting grounds based in capitols rather than having piecemeal shit in every city, but consider say, Perth, the most isolated capital city on Earth short of fucking Nuuk. It is an absolute given that this place is going to have a functioning Concilium given the sheer area it serves as a staging area to, but even with skeleton crew numbers it implies Mages would be up there with Vamps for numbers if the Vamps don't go on a recruiting drive / Mages stopped murdering each other.

>>47441920
Promethean is about pilgrimage in the same way is Mage is about ascending.

>>47438104
No, you're wrong.

>>47441923
Okay, fairy nuff, I can drop that bit, what do you make of the Attainments? the Arcana layout would have been Spirit+Death with Life as an optional extra.

>>47438104
>>47441992
Spells Withstand with whatever the fuck the spell being cast on them says they Withstand with.
Dispel Magic(Prime 1) is Withstood by the subject spell caster's Arcanum rating
Scribe Grimoire is Withstood by the total Arcanum dots of all Arcana used in the spell being scribed.
Supernal Dispellation(Prime 4) is Withstood by the subject spell caster's Arcanum rating

TL;DR:
>>47441992
No, you're a fucking idiot

>>47441947
No, because Promethean is laser focused on the pilgrimage. It's about the pilgrimage in the same way that Mage is about Mysteries. Ascension is like Golconda; some distant out of the way high tier probably won't happen sort of thing that might just be a rumour. The New Dawn on the other hand is completely 100% the core focus of a Promethean game. It is all about becoming a real boy.

>>47441940
I don't think even the Pentacle pretends the Seers are mind controlled. They're just doing the wrong thing. They're swayed by money and power and working for the bad guys.

As for numbers, again, there's like less than 1% of the planet that are Mages, so you're not going to find them all over the Astral like park goers on a clear spring day. Consilia also cover a lot more ground than Vampires do. You might have the same governing body across three cities.

>>47441920
>likes Beast
>thinks Heroes are deep
>thinks his opinion has merit

>>47442119
>laser focused
Oh. So thats how you call "nothing to do" nowadays.

>>47442082
Those numbers subtract from POTENCY.

>>47442119
>No, because Promethean is laser focused on the pilgrimage. It's about the pilgrimage in the same way that Mage is about Mysteries.
It really isn't. That's a long term end goal that rarely is goiing to happen in games, especially group games

As for not listening to fans? That's how you get Beast.

>>47442143

The Pilgrimage is the core of Promethean; everything about the game directly ties into the journey to become human.

You can not like that, but it's still essential to the premise of the game.

>>47442218
Fuck being human. Once you're human the Principle is just going to kill you and you'll wake up as a Sin-Eater

>>47442231
Or Fey captures you.
Or some weirdo nosferatu thinks you breathe funny.
Or you suddenly realize you have inner passion for killing imaginary dragons.

Being human in wod is shit. It gets 100 times more shit if you remember.

>>47442231
Or you'll get abducted and become a Changeling, and THEN become a Sin-Eater once you finally get past that obstacle.

>>47442303
I guess after all that you can just decline geist offer. I'm tired, buddy.

>>47442082
People weren't talking about dispel.

>>47442128
>Someone disagrees with me, I'll just ignore any valid criticism

>>47442129
It's explicitly something to do. Promethean has always been the WoD game with THE strongest focus. You work to become human. That is what you do.

>>47442143
There's an entire blog post about how Promethean is all about the Pilgrimage. Whether it actually happens in play or not, that is the focus of the game. That is what the game is about, period, end of story.

>>47442231
>>47442299
>>47442303
>>47442321
To quote Atamajakki's forum signature
>If your problem is "I don't like the core premise of a game," consider that your solution might be "play something else."

>>47442076
Bearing in mind that, as far as the book gives us, the First attainment is designed as if you had 1-dot in the Arcanum, I'm not sure how the first one you suggest would work. Maybe if you had it as a scene-long ritual, with the Reach spent to use Advanced Scale.
The Second one seem alright; although maybe just make it a permanent/toggle-able version of Gossamer Touch's effect, and either go with eating Spirits being an Oblation, or add in the Attainment that when you eat a Spirit using it, you roll your Gnosis/the Spirit's Rank/something else, and gain Mana equal to the successes.
The Third/Gnosis 4 Attainment twisting a Spirit's Influences isn't possible; that'd need to be the Fourth/Gnosis 6 Attainment
The Fourth you suggest doesn't really work, if you move your suggested Third to where it would work. It'd need to be the Fourth Attainment, an Instant usage of the Reaching spell with the bonus Reach spent on making an Iris. So you'd have to drop one or the other.
The Fifth is in a weird spot of 'not covered by the official mechanics' and 'theoretically possible', so I dunno, do with it what you want.

>>47442368
They were talking about how spells Withstand other spells. Dispel and Scribe Grimoire are the only spells in the book that refer to spells Withstanding anything.
>>47442136
Those numbers subtract from the Potency of the spell being cast on the spell.
If your enemy Joe Thyrsus cast a spell on your pet cat to turn it into a tiger, you can dispel it, but you'll need a Potency of his Life dots +1 to have any chance of succeeding, because his Life dots are what Withstands the spell Dispel Magic(or Supernal Dispellation).
Thus, if you have Prime 4 and want to turn your new tiger back into a cat with Supernal Dispellation, you need to take a -2 to get a Potency of 5, assuming Joe Thyrsus has Life 4, and your spell will have a post-Withstand Potency of 1.

>>47441719

No, because game books are budgeted out by word count, since freelancers are paid per word. Promethean, in particular, needs its word count for its 10+ Refinements and the powers related to such as well as confirming to the 2e standard of having nearly all the game's rules in the core as opposed to depending on a separate central rulebook. Besides, despite Matt's misgivings, we'll most likely see more support for Centimani from an antagonist angle, which can easily be reverse engineered. It also helps that 2e is intentionally designed so that most 1e splatbooks are still relevant with minor tweaks.

>>47441920

Their central thesis, though the re-write walks back from this, is "Heroes are failures driven by delusions of grandeur and are ultimately small roadblocks to the Legend of the Beast". It's intentionally more shallow than many other CofD antagonists, because making the Hero seem more important gets in the way with how Beast wants to subvert the Hero's Journey and other folk tale aspects. The re-write's focus on "They're kind of like Beasts, except misguided" only has a bit more depth, and ultimately the only narrative power they have on the story is that most of the time, a Hero is in the moral right to the average CofD bystander. This bare bones approach would be fine if they were supposed to be a looming off screen threat, such as the True Fae, but instead they're the most common enemy the splat has. They have all the presence of marquee enemy with all the weight of a sideshow enemy. This, not the presence of player facing mechanics, is the fatal flaw: they work too well at being part of the subversion at the cost of memorable game experience.

>>47442377
Cheers.

>>47442376
>>Someone disagrees with me, I'll just ignore any valid criticism
That's what you were doing so it's probably acceptable.
>There's an entire blog post about how Promethean is all about the Pilgrimage. Whether it actually happens in play or not, that is the focus of the game. That is what the game is about, period, end of story.
Which is the problem. People don't play games going strictly according to end goals. Mage games don't aim for ascension. Promethean games aren't all going to aim for the pilgrimage.

It's weird that you're arguing about it, considering your own promethean games which avoided the pilgrimage entirely.

>>47442487
>It's intentionally more shallow than many other CofD antagonists, because making the Hero seem more important gets in the way with how Beast wants to subvert the Hero's Journey and other folk tale aspects.
And he's doing the same thing with alchemists. They want to improve themselves and their lives, so they're shallow compared to the monsters that want to do the same things.

>>47441920
If you take the Pilgrimage as a metaphor for growing up (because, you know, it obviously is), then it makes sense that a significant portion of Prometheans would, at some point, reject the Pilgrimage - because it's dangerous, because it's hopeless, because it's hard, etc - but that doesn't mean they reject it forever. Centimani rules are important for those Prometheans who hit Promethean puberty and decide to rebel against Daddy Principle, even if they later grow out of it and get back on the Pilgrimage. Given how much of Promethean is usually structured around hero's journey (and the temporary failure or stall inherent to that plot arc) and to coming of age, there has to be something for the inevitable Centimani dip.

Comparing them to Slashers, who go off the deep end and can basically never recover, is bad. Don't do that.

>>47442625
>Centimani rules are important for those Prometheans who hit Promethean puberty
That's why the book remarks their big genitals.

I kinda don't understand that's bad with Liches. The kind which don't steal souls and bodies, I mean.

>>47442487
The Heroes are not in the moral right. I mean, they're not new territory at all, they're literally oWoD Hunters, with all of the baggage that they'd kill your do-gooder Vampion without a second thought.

I will agree that their mechanics are trash, though.

>>47442498
I'm not dismissing anyone out of hand for having an opinion I don't agree with. I'm articulating my opinions and explaining why I disagree.

A Promethean game may never get to the New Dawn, but that doesn't mean the game isn't focused around that. It's not like Ascension or Golconda, though. Those are not the focus of their games. They're similar goals, but for Promethean that IS THE GAME in its entirety. Becoming human is your purpose. Everything you do should revolve around that, in the same way that Mages revolve around searching for mysteries.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about, and you probably have me confused with someone else. My Promethean in the one game I played was very much trying to become a real boy.

>>47442582
Alchemists are also murderers who extend their life through killing Prometheans.

>>47442625
The Pilgramage isn't a metaphor for growing up, it's a metaphor for spiritual awakening. Also, I don't think Centimani tend to be Centimani temporarily. It's not a temporary state, it's more of a Bad End where you become the demons.

>>47442644
I believe it was multiple genitals, not big ones.

>>47442665
Because almost every route involves doing harm to others, or turns you into something less than human that ultimately drives you crazy

>>47442625
I suddenly feel wary of having Slashers as main enemies of Hunter 2ed.

>>47442665
His name implies a lot of XP for killing, and we playing rpg aftel all.

>>47442701

nuwe draad

>>47442687
>Because almost every route involves doing harm to others, or turns you into something less than human that ultimately drives you crazy
Like using Time to steal, well, time from other people?

>>47442665
A kick isn't an immortal Mage. A lich is a Mage who achieved immortality through abhorrent, hubristic ways.

>>47442687
>not a metaphor for growing up
>a game about naive 'not-children' learning how to be real, functioning humans
You're right, it's not about growing up. It's about growing up autistic, which is something that clearly resonates with you.

File: Xykon.png (30KB, 415x253px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 415x253px

>>47442665
>The only thing that a Lich will not do is give in to death. For all his posturing, the real drive that forces a Lich to stave off the end is simple fear. Humans can learn to accept death, but a Lich lives in constant fear of his magic failing and the reaper catching up.

Avoiding death makes you do stupid, evil shit.

>>47442582

They want to improve themselves and their lives at the expense of the safety and health of Prometheans, the protagonists of the game. Since you're expected to at least sympathize with the plight of the Promethean, this is not a good thing. They're on the same level as a Promethean that robs vitriol from another. If you find that an acceptible loss, Promethean isn't going to be the game for you. That doesn't make then shallow (it's still a noble idea, despite the evil act that empowers it) and it doesn't make Prometheans's shallow.

>>47442687

To anyone who doesn't buy the Beast narrative (read: 80% of the setting), Heroes are going to seem like they're in the right. They're stopping killers, thieves, and kidnappers, and despite the motivations behind both actions, it's not like they're wrong.

>>47442376
Centamani should be playable even if they aren't how the game should be played for the same reason Scelesti should be playable, because they are just a further extension of playable template and sometimes it can be fun to play the bad guy.

>>47442687

>The Heroes are not in the moral right.

Yes they are.

Aspel, by now you should realize no one else shares your opinion on Beast.

>>47442983
Heroes are not in the moral right because they literally just want to kill people. That is never morally right, unless you've got some fucked up morals.
>>47442981
It can be fun to be the bad guy, but that doesn't mean the developers need to focus on it. They don't prevent you from doing it, but that doesn't mean they should devote time or effort to do so.

>>47443033
I just want Refinement bonuses and xp tables.

>>47441940
Per 2e, Mage demographics have changed somewhat.

Not every Mage belongs to a Concilium. Concilia are reserved for places where the population of Pentacle Mages is high enough for one to be needed to mediate potential disputes and allocate resources/access to Mysteries - so typically larger metropolitan areas, and areas with notable Mysteries. Remember that Concolia are pretty much just common-law courts that mediate between the Orders and individual Cabals.

Unless you're in an area like above, you probably just belong to your local Order Caucus and a Cabal. Or an Assembly, if you happen to be in an area with majority Free Council membership. Look at the 2e book city examples for the different ways these can work.

>>47442981
Nothing stops you from playing them, but there isn't enough demand for the writers to devote more wordcount to them. You want official fluff and mechanics? Start raising their popularity.

>>47443033
>Heroes are not in the moral right because they literally just want to kill people.
They are not killing people, they are killing monstrous supernatural killer-abuser jerks who have the chutzpah to claim that they are doing it "to educate" their victims.
(imo the biggest problem of the line was trying to portray beast as having noble goal to teach humanity instead of playing them straight as bad guys)

>>47444459
Yes, yes, every vampire deserves to die, even the ones that only drink from rats.

>>47444668
That depends on you being vegetarian or not.
Seriously though few beasts who don't deserve to die are just exception that proves the rule. Although fluff in the book tries to downplay it, the more unscrupulous beast is the better - bonuses for traumatising or even murdering your victim etc. Lack of integrity stat doesn't help either. Compared to that are vampires just a overgrown mosquitoes.