Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Polite bump before I go mimi's.

Hope to get some input.

>>47347175
Consider the faction being the steamwheedle cartel

It's the most open cross-faction option. Although much like starting in Stormwind, it does sort of put Night elves in an odd position.

Also, why 5e?

>tfw all the super interesting plotlines that WoD introduced and Blizzard's bungling of WoD killed that will never come back
rip in peace Sargerei and flying arakkoa

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>>47348536
Why are Blizzard's sideplots always better than their main story?

Anyhow, Xe'ra's sentience core is only supposed to be accessible through Naaru in his lineage, with O'ros being his last descendant, but it reacts to the Tear of Elune.

Khadgar supposedly thinks Elune may have created the some of the first Naaru.

>>47348588
>tfw Cho'gall is a million times cooler than Deathwing, but he wasn't the final boss of Cata because muh WC2 and muh dragons

Warcraft in general would be far better if Chromie was the only dragon that ever showed up in game

>>47348588
>Khadgar supposedly thinks Elune may have created the some of the first Naaru.
Khadgar is a meme

>>47348712
>Khadgar is a meme
the greatest meme of all

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>>47348762

>>47348703
Deathwing makes sense as the final boss, since he's the one who did the whole Cataclysm thing, and is far more powerful than Cho'gall, but he kind of is a weak antagonist. I mean, he's powerful, sure, but he basically boils down to "big giant dragon flying around wrecking shit". He's more a force of nature than a character, primarily driving the plot by showing up and wreckign stuff in the general vicinity, and while he makes for an awesome bossfight, he isn't very interesting as a character.

>>47349443
give the PCs a personal vendetta worth fighting him over

>>47349458
He stole one player's girlfriend, and one other player just wants to punch him. Boom.

>>47349679
a better idea would be this.
Make Onyxia or Nefarian chafe under DW's command, and then turn tail against DW. They help your party and eventually die. Turn DW into a mad mastermind instead of a meme

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Its interesting how many people consider the DH to be evil.

They're morale as fuck. They made massive sacrifices for the sake of defending the world, and anyone who goes in it for power either doesnt last long, or is killed off once they go and betray.

>>47351393
Putting them on a level similar to warlocks, and how many good warlocks do you know?

>>47348536
I agree with the Sargeri being interesting, but I preferred when Arrokka were hunched raven people by default and not cursed urbermensch.

>>47351679
Warlocks do it for the sake of gaining power for the sake of having power.

DH do it for the sake of gaining power so they can defend the world.

Warlocks do things strictly for themselves
DH do things mostly for others

>>47351820
A more apt comparison would probably be death knights.

They're both rather shifty but the majority are still there to help, no matter how unscruplous their methods or where they draw power from.

Death Knights are generally unwilling until after their transformation though, which would probably be the biggest difference.

>>47348712
I really, really like Khadgar and his mage memes.

Iceblock, blink, arcane minions, being a smartass.

t. fanboy mage

>>47351679
Plenty

All demon hunters for one thing. Fluff-wise there's leittle difference, and in-game demon hunter really should just be a melee DPS spec for warlocks

I'm going to be running a Warcraft 5e campaign for my friends, and I need some ideas for quests.

Starting area will be Booty Bay, and the timeline will be a mix of Vanilla WoW and Cataclysm. Gilneas has fallen to Scourge instead of Forsaken and Worgen are a thing, Blood Elves are a thing, Lich King is still alive, Deathwing hasn't returned yet.

>>47352416
Look at in-game quests from vanilla

Also, consider running in-game dungeons as actual dungeons, Shadowfang Keep would be really interesting.

Also consider not using 5e

OP is back

>>47348172
Because the two experienced players wanted the new edition. They watch acquisituons inc and one other who run 5e and they want to play it.

Me? I don't care. As long as i have some basic rules to get the story along and I can add intrigue and the little details that made me love wow, ill be happy.

>>47352437
Different guy but, i was planning on starting small with the kobold caves, building to defenss of westfall and defias bugging them the whole way, eventually geting them into deadmines. I want the progression through eastern kingdoms to be slow up to the plaguelands, and helping the blood elves who are going to be justifiably offput by them being there.

Also, why not 5th? Is 4e truly better for representing the classes and combat?

>>47352416
My advice is to ignore any content added post Wrath that isn't part of your weird headcannon.

Every bit of fluff since then has been exclusively awful, and most of the gameplay too.

>>47352796
I would just suggest not using DnD

A friend of mine is working on an Anima conversion, which is a bit weird, but I think has merit. Meanwhile, while it's a Japanese game that's not fully translated, the Log Horizon TRPG is made to run MMO-themed games, and if you want it to feel anything like Warcraft, rather than a DnD game set in Azeroth, that's a big help

>>47352811
I would somewhat disagree on that

While MoP's talent changes were shit, the monk class is actually a load of fun to play as unless you're healing with it, in which case it feels like you're herding cats, and the cats are made of mist.

And on a lore front, while things like everything Garrosh has done, everything Sylvanas has done and fucking Thermaplugg still not being dead for some reason are problems, at least Wrathion was kind of interesting, and even though the events that lead up to it were utter shit, everything in the Seige of Orgrimmar outside of the actual conlcusion was rather well done

>>47352920
No joke, I constantly forget that monks even exist.

The only time I ever notice them is when some guy in my LFG dungeon rolls for no particular reason.

>>47352978
That's weird, Brewmasters may not be the best tanks in WoD, but they're certainly the most fun to play as

>>47352858
5e converts to Warcraft really well, though.

>>47353019
How? It's a vancian magic system with standard "just basic attack" martials. That's about as far from Warcraft as you can get while still being a class-based system in a generic fantasy setting

>>47353054

That and about zero ability for martials to actually make themselves a tempting target rather than beating on the squishies.

>>47353054
If it needs to be d&d, 4th would be the only one I would consider even passable.

>>47353074
The threat system is why Log Horizon is so fucking good at running MMO-themed games

Quick, someone name 1 bit of lore that hasn't been shit on by WoW yet

>>47353124
Everything Rexxar did

>>47353054
I'm speaking from the experience of playing a Warcraft 5e conversion and being a fan of the series. In my opinion and from my experience, it worked well.

>>47353145
Did it work well because it worked like a Warcraft game, or because you were playing a system you already liked with friends?

I'm not saying don't use 5e at all, it's not a bad game by any means, it just doesn't fit with Warcraft.

>>47353124
Kul Tiras.

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>>47353139
>Everyone asks Rexxar to come back and save the Horde
>Rexxar says "fuck off, I'm happy in the wild"

>>47353194
It felt very Warcraft to me. In my experience, it fit well. At no point was I like "this isn't really Warcraft!"

>>47349443
The problem with Deathwing is that he should have been a smarter and more political opponent. He's a shapeshifter who was able to perform subtle mindcontrol. Manipulating mortals was one of his things.

Unfortunately, Blizzard doesn't know how to understand feedback. People thought Illidan didn't show up enough, so they made Arthas show up everywhere saying "I'll get you next time". People complained that made Arthas look like some cartoon villain, so they corrected by never having Deathwing actually interact with anyone.
>>47351739
Arakkoa were always said to be "once beautiful" in TBC.

>>47353705
>Arakkoa were always said to be "once beautiful" in TBC.

I guess, but i feel like it was more convoluded than it needed to be. What's wrong with a simple "god damn, demons everywhere really fucked our shit, just like it did to broken and lost draenei."

>>47353207
Where the fuck IS he anyway in WoD?
Or the Mok'Nathal for that matter? Shouldn't there be a shitload around?

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>>47353054
Im not well versed with 5th, but the link I posted in Op basically has a redone players handbook with all warcraft races, classes, and professions. It seems pretty complete and from what ive seen pretty sweet.

Im going to probably base most my stuff on that.

Again, im not looking to replicate wow in tabletop, im looking to take most of its story, change details where they make sense, and have a mechanic thats similar to classes, bit still very much dnd.

Like i said two pkayers have no experience with wow, so they're at the table for story and loot. Third player has experience witb wow, but im sure can suspend some mechamics for lore/new game type.

So i know the wow timeline is roughly 1 year per expansion, but im starting vanilla, and want to do mostly the story of the alliance building up strength, the kidnapping of varian towards the middle taking them to theramore, and concluding with the best vanillla quest line tuning for onyxia. I plan on having the nobles be snotty, obnoxious and give them a reason to see where the defias and others came from. I also wanted to pre knyxia and mc to have them assault warsong gulch and help the night elves as part of a huge regiment traveling there.

But that all depends on the players. The two experienced players are wxcellent at sidetracking and ditching plot points. Hell id be surprised if they didnt try to join the illidari if we get that far.

>>47354158
>Where the fuck IS he anyway in WoD?
sitting on the side of a hill in Gorgrond. He helps Alliance players with two quests

>>47354239
That's for the best honestly.

Better he keeps hidden, tucked away from the prying eyes of godawful game designers and writers.

>>47354175
Ok, I see that you and I would want very, very different things out of a Warcraft TRPG

You could probably play the official WoW TRPG. It's 3.5, and is a similar sort of conversion as the one linked in the OP. I couldn't, it's sort important to me that it feels sort of MMO-ish, with non-vancian magic, special powers for warriors and tank/healer/dps roles.

Although really, the only important one there is non-vancian magic. Warcraft magic is explicitly non-vancian, and it sort of bothers me to see vancian magic used in settings where the magic explicitly does not work like that.

>>47354454
Wgile i agree on spellcasting, every other bit about class specifics seems built i to that link. Warriors get their shouts, though taunt is later on. Shamans get elementals to help them, can change their damage type. Its eems pretty fun.

If theres input to change spells, im open. I always stand by fun trumps rules, and level 1-like 3 wizards arent fun. Maybe less damaging spells, or much more uses of 0 and 1st level spells?

>>47354578
But that's the core problem, there is no fixing it without removing magic, 5e, much like 3.5, is built on the backbone of Vancian casting, that's why you're so much better off using a different system

>>47348703
I liked the way the dragonflights were portrayed earlier, largely keeping to themselves and tending to their respective tasks, with the Aspects themselves being elusive demigods.

Although that also has a lot to do with storytelling in vanilla and TBC being far less in-your-face.

>>47354697
Yeah, Vanilla and TBC did a pretty good job with the Dragonflights. It wasn't til Wrath that they suddenly became major characters in the overall story.

Well I guess Kalecgos was important in TBC, but he kind of had to be due to his role in the comic.

>>47354903
Yeah but Kalecgos wasn't dangled in front of the players for the entire Quel'danas quest line. His appearance was wholly contained in the raid.

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>>47347175
>Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion: Actual rules discussion edition
>thread is nothing but lore once again

>>47355167
That's because unfortunately, Warcraft does not have its own RPG system. It has a shitty OGL RPG, and a bunch of adaptations for other games, but nothing that is actually a warcraft specific system. So there aren't really any real rules to discuss

>>47355167
Ive been tryin man. I actually wanted help lol.

>>47354618
Have you played fate? Im considering that as its a lot nore flexible with, well, everything. Its much more story focused, which id love. The chunks of good better best skills, everyone is the same level, etc.

I like it, of course my two players would have none of it. Magic would be easier, shaman abilities are nothing to deal with, and there'd be danger every time they ran into a pack of gnolls, not just faceroll when 5 levels above.

>>47354697
>>47354903
my biggest problem with dragons is their bullshit "we can't intervene in mortal affairs but oh fuck this other dragon is crazy go get him mortals" plotline that shows up multiple times in every single content pack from vanilla to Cataclysm

>>47354454
Then why not play the original tabletop WoW: DnD 4th edition?

I've been arguing against that label for years but ultimately I have to admit there IS no tabletop RPG that does MMO combat better. 4e has at least one class to cover each warcraft class, and everyone gets cool powers and is equally useful in a group combat situation. I guess it doesn't have mana points but you could refluff your at-will spells as a wand and suddenly you have mages who are capable of running out of juice.

>>47355167
Alright then. Would you have a Shaman's power based on Charisma, since their power is based on negotiating with the spirits?

>>47355447
The problem with dragons is that their function in the lore is to be aloof guardians of nature who generally benign or uninterested in the lower races, but that's really boring and the proper function of dragons in a game world is to be raid bosses, so the writers have to keep contriving to send them insane again and again.

>>47355506
>Charisma, since their power is based on negotiating with the spirits?
>Wisdom, since their power is based on intuition of spirit world
>Constitution, since their power is based on channeling volatile elemental powers
>Intelligence, since they're leaders and advisors
>Strength, since they're hand-to-hand combatants

Ability scores are completely vestigial in dnd, just pick one or two for you class and go with it. All that matters is that you stick with that choice and don't force people to spread their stats around.

>>47352796
I disagree with planning too far in advance, though you may know your players better than I do. The best part of a WoW rpg is that it can easily be very open world, as the whole world is already built.

I also second running the in-game dungeons as actual dungeons because that's just really fun.

>>47355506
In the game I played, slightly reflavoring 5e bard felt more shamanish than building a druid that couldn't shapeshift, so I'd personally say yeah

>>47355506
In 3.5, their spellcasting power is based on charisma but spells known/per day are based on wisdom, I think.
However, that's pretty dumb since it forces you to split your stat allocation pretty harshly if you want to be able to cast your way out of a wet paper bag.

However, you could ask the same question of the Diplomacy skill- incredible wisdom should be able to sway an opinion even if they aren't the most charming person in the room.

I'd like to think a good shaman is charismatic or wise, but the best shaman is both. Maybe have it be a choice at character creation with shaman and priest, because we know that Scarlets sure aren't wise, but they can pump out that holy fire with their sense of self, i.e. CHA.

>>47355633
>Maybe have it be a choice at character creation with shaman and priest, because we know that Scarlets sure aren't wise, but they can pump out that holy fire with their sense of self, i.e. CHA.
Well, I guess that makes sense. The lore often fluffs the power of the Light/Shadow as coming from the self and force of one's personality/emotions as well as strength of will, so I guess both actually work for it.

Maybe Charisma would pump out more pure power while Wisdom would have better control and use it more effectively.

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>>47355599
Yeah with my players its leave breadcrumbs, some obvious stuff, try to move them here, then bam! They're on another boat trying to kill an inncoent book merchant because his robe was black.

As for dungones, i like them as I can easily put those to table, and the mechanics are easily added to the game. The story build up to each one in vanilla was great.

For the open world, i was considering having them in a guild, or forming one, and it gets assignments from the crown about what needs help. They dont have to go, they are after all murderhobos, but theres good money if they do. Sure the world will be open, but if they read up lore and want to explore ubrs for no reason, theres going to be som railroading.

What system should one use to play a Warcraft game in?

inb4 4E

>>47356737
I would honestly take a crack at it with Mutants & Masterminds. It can work for high fantasy, warriors would be highly competent, and you can string up pretty much any powers you could think of.

>>47356737
>inb4 4E
You can't inb4 something that's been mentioned several times in this very thread, you dingus.

It's insane to think people would play a Warcraft game in anything but 4e.

>>47355954
make sure the start of their game is trying to finish getting 10 signatures to form their guild

>>47357072
with random whispers

>>47356857
Why not just a custom system?

>>47358894
Bump for this

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>>47358894
>>47359784
Ok, custom system. Where do we start?

Do we keep their stat system? Id try to avoid their stamina, dodge, multistrike, etc. Personally.

Would you work your way into classes? Paladins must start as warriors then champion the light? Warloks start as mages that find some tomes of evil?

Simple stats? Strength, smarts, speed? If you boil them all doen you really end up there. Mana system is smartsx10, then spells decrease from that and you have to regen mana?

Just spitballing shit. OP gotta make the thread live up to title lol

>>47360470
Four stats (Strength, Dex, Intelligence, and Wis), all of the classes are as they are in the game (none of this "start as a warrior, then go into becoming a paladin" business). Every race gets a different start score in each class but all come up to the same total numbers. Every level you get a bump in some of your stats (warriors would, say, add +4 to STR but only a +1 to the others whereas a Paladin might see a +2 STR, +1 Dex, +2 INT and +2 WIS for instance). After three levels you pick your archetype.

Spells and abilities are done by a point system (but none of this thousands business, keep the numbers small). Arcane Bolt might cost 1 point, but the highest level spells might need only cost 10?

Thoughts?

>>47360698
I can dig 4 stats.

Would we apply wis more towards shamans with their need to commune with and know elementals/spirits?

I wasn't meaning going into the thousands, I mean, stats themselves should end well before 100 I think.

Assuming your most expensive spell costs 10 mana (theoretically) are we looking at no increase in mana pools with levels? Maybe mages and priests could choose to buff their spells or their mana pool. I.e. Belindra has decided to buff her healing spells, while Godfrey has decided to increase his mana pool to last longer in a fight.

>Every race gets a different start score in each class but all come up to the same total numbers.

I keep reading this and can't quite follow. Each race has different stats, but classes add the same number to stats every level?

>After three levels you pick your archetype.
your spec? Like I'm level 3, i want to be a shadow priest/feral druid/holy paladin?

Combat! Limit it, make it fast. You get two actions, some spells will take two actions (pyroblast), some abilities will take 0 actions (taunt). You can do you actions then move to the next person. Maybe have bosses bosses that get more than 2 actions.

Attack is just roll attack dice + str, enemy rolls+armor (monks can maybe use dex instead)?

Just tossing more shit out there.

>>47360470
>>47360698
Multiclassing doesn't really happen aside from Med'an who even Blizzard realized was bullshit, but class changes happen so frequently in the lore its hard to just ignore.

It could be an option to trade in your levels for an appropriate class. So warlocks are a starting option, but it would also be possible for a 6th level mage or shaman to drink the Gul'dan kool-aid mid campaign and become a 6th level warlock.

>>47360698
I like the idea of players having a bit more freedom in choosing their main stats, with the classes having a range of abilities that benefit from different stats; the idea is that instead of causing MAD, you choose which aspect of the class you want to focus on, like enhancement versus restoration or elemental shamans.

Obviously not every class can make use of every stat, but if you're willing to veer slightly away from the strict categories used in the game you can have a pseudo-PRC-esque system. For example, a warlock that goes down the STR path is a WCII-style death knight, while a DEX-focused warlock is a demon hunter. What do you think?

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>>47355506

Honestly, I feel like that "negotiating with the spirits" thing has completely fallen out of the lore. When is the last time we saw anyone negotiating with spirits? Thrall basically just asks nicely whenever he does anything. And I can't believe that we're asking the spirits every time we throw lightning. I assume it's more "be in the good grace of the spirits, and have their powers available to you".

Honestly, most of the elementals, especially elemental lords, are dicks who probably wouldn't help you anyway. Are we binding them to our will, and now Shamans are just elemental Warlocks? I feel the idea of "elemental bargainers" does not fit in at all with the Shaman we actually see in the Warcraft universe, who are generally the wisemen of their culture. Not at all "wheel and deal" types except for the Goblins.

To answer your question, I'd say Wisdom is far more fitting the Shaman stereotype.

>>47363433
the elementals on Draenor are nice-ish guys that can be reasoned with, the ones on Azeroth are dicks because they're mostly corrupted by the Old Gods

>>47363433
Chronicle explained the elementals' different attitudes a bit. They become erratic and destructive without the fifth element (Spirit) to balance them out, and Azeroth had a severe shortage because of the titan fetus sucking most of it up.

Draenor had no titanbabby and post-ordering Azeroth had more Spirit to go around, leading to more chilled out elementals that shaman could negotiate with.

>>47353145
Do you have the adaption on pdf?

>>47354175
There is no link in the Op, post again because this sounds interesting.

>>47363929
>>47363951
It's there just written long-hand

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>>47363951
>goo dot gl slash cmCypo
I had to hide it like this in OP cause "spam"

>>47363929
I'm not that guy, but this one seems pretty sweet

If that link doesn't work, google piazza 5e warcraft. first link

anyone else for the new system we briefly talked about
>>47361970
>>47361266
>>47360698
>>47360470
>>47362313

What would be cooler/more rewarding to RP as

a Worgen Warlock or a Dwarf Warlock? The latter being Dark Iron

>>47364001
I personally like the Dark Iron dwarves. I love split in them of loyalists and Moira-ists. That some want to prove they're good people and worthy of being there, and others just want to watch the world burn. Or melt.

>>47364033
Cool beans.

What's the hard and fast of being Dark Iron then?

>>47364041
One of three dwarf clans. Outcast for their inability to accept the rule of the crown after the war of the three hammers. Their king got to diddle Moira Bronzebeard (King Magni's of age daughter).

Emperor Thaurissan was insane. Sure Moira loved him, but he and his people below were assholes to outsiders. Could have something to do with Orcs invading, a dragon living up top, a dragon forcing them to make armor, cults about the end of the world, etc.

They love a hard, bitter brew, and invade the brewfest every year because they aren't invited(no one likes their brew, yet ogres are welcome).

When Magni "died," Moira, who was pregnant when we killed her husband, came to claim the throne. She was representing the Dark iron's as their queen, and as hereditary ruler to the throne of Ironforge. The people there saw this as an invasion, and Moira turned it into one. Varian came and settled shit out creating the council of three hammers. They will rule democratically until her son is of age to rule as king.

Some Dark Irons were just happy to see all their acts (mostly) forgiven. They're still assholes to the other two clans, but they aren't actively killing. However, there are some among the dark irons who hate what Moira has done. They believe that she's shown weakness with the council agreement, and is not a true ruler for them. They hate her "half-spawn" and will not listen to him even when he is of age. They want her out, Ironforge and Blackrock for themselves, and ya know, the old gods/deathwing/whoever is smacking a whip on their backs. They seem like a race of masochists

>>47358767
>"Psst, kid"
>"You see a see a sign on a nearby tree reading: Deathwing's Nemesis is looking for a few good men. Report to Quartermaster Aothus for more information."
>"What?"
>"We're a friendly and social RP guild, but we just started a raid team and we plan on doing organized PVP soon."
>"Who the hell are you?"
>"Whisper me back for more info."
>"No, go away I'm leaving."
>Aothus invites you to join the guild: Deathwing's Nemesis
>"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

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>>47364124
It's also worth noting that a large portion of the Thorium Brotherhood rejoined the Dark Irons who stand alongside Moira, most notably Thaelin Darkanvil (brilliant machinist/siegecrafter) and Hansel Heavyhands (who punches orcs to death like it's going out of style).

Also, it was Anduin who proposed the Council of Three Hammers, whereas Varian was inclined to just kick Moira's ass out which would have resulted in a great deal of internal strife and the weakening of Ironforge, the Alliance's most powerful manufacturer of siege weaponry.

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>>47364340
True. True. I was just summarizing. Anduin was basically kidnapped by Moira and varian went in with SI7 for a rescue. Anduin explained the situation and prevented a mini war.

For all the shit people give Anduin, he seems like the only morally good character. He tells Velen hes selfish for not warning of the cataclysm, was one of the earliest people trying to stop Garrosh before shit got way out of hand, etc.

Timeline question: how soon before the outland assault in BC did kaelthas give his people fel energy, and how long were draenei on azeroth after crashing before the portal reopened? Im sure fel energy was pretty soon after he left for outland, so maybe 5 years total? 4 between wc3 and wow+q year vanilla? And dreanei i always played like they were there maybe a month before the dark portal assault.

But ive been wrong on a lot before...

>>47364944
There was almost no time between the exodar crash and the opening of the dark portal

>there was only 6000 years between the Aqir-Troll War and the WotA
night elves evolved fucking fast. Titan blood, not even once

>>47356758
Mutants and Masterminds has a weird combatsystem though, at least in regards to "dying".

>>47363992
I'm more inclined towards building a system from the ground up rather than converting a D&D edition, but that's mainly because the magic systems are so very, very different, fluff-wise.

Of course, Chronicles made a ton of changes to the way magic works, and I'm not at all fond of them either. I hate the notion of the Light being practically just another element, for example.

>>47365833
M&M 3e has a unique damage system where the more "damage" you take, ther harder it is to stay on your feet. There are specific optional rules used for death that you can add or remove.

I still think M&M could work. I remember a guy talking about how he converted his high-level D&D game to M&M, and the fighter actually felt like a god of war for once.

What's a good 5 person party for a flavorful and fun adventure in current Azeroth?

I have character concepts for three so far:

Human Death Knight
Worgen Hunter
Night Elf Demon Hunter

What else should I add? I know we need a healer and probably one more damage dealer.

>>47369505
Your Healer can't really be a Paladin or Priest or the DK is basically screwed. Maybe a Mage as your other damage dealer.

>>47369505
>>47369617
Dwarf Shaman

>>47369647
As cliche as it is, I wish the Dwarf Shaman got keg totems like the Pandaren did. And that totems were still where you got your buffs from in the game.

>>47364340
>>47364124
>>47364033

>tfw Dark Irons and Wildhammers still aren't playable, despite being in the cataclysm beta

But yeah, dwarves have had a lot of cool shit in their history, ranging from accidentally summoning the living embodiment of nuclear rage, and destroying a good fifth of an entire continent, to the discovery of tank warfare, to lightning hammer wielding animal masters dwarves are fucking amazing.

>>47369505
Gotta go with the classics/hallmarks.
>Orc Warrior
>Troll Hunter/Shaman
>Tauren Hunter/Shaman
>Undead Rogue/Warlock
>Blood Elf Mage/Warlock

>>47369872
>blood elf anything

disgustedanimefemale.webm

>>47370003
We need total race representation, like it or not. And the blood elf adds a needed dynamic to an otherwise rough-and-tumble party.

>>47369505
Take classic classes, then make them weird races

Make the supporting priest who likes to let others take the spotlight be a human. The sneaky, adaptable rogue is a dwarf. The stalwart warrior is a gnome. The intellectual and enigmatic mage is an orc. That sort of thing

>>47370021
>Blood Elf Mage/Warlock
But why? Blood Knights a best. Unless you make them Sunreavers.

>>47370076
I miss spellbreakers

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>>47370076
Because the archetypal blood elf is a mage. Blood knights aren't as common as you might think. Plus, as a blood elf, being a mage is like becoming a doctor: it's to be expected. God forbid your son/daughter wants to become a dirt-slogging Farstrider.

>>47370105
And yet a dirt slogging far strider leads their people.

>>47369617
He wouldn't be screwed at all. The light heals undead just fine, it just hurts like a motherfucker.

>>47370514
I hate that they flip flop on undead priests. For a while it was that they could channel the light just fine, but they felt like they were on fire whenever they did, but then it was "the onliest and most special undead priest is that one guy in Naxx cuz he can channel the light even tho hes dead and nobody else can, forsaken holy priests are non-canon now guise"

>>47370690
They could never channel it just fine though it burns them when they channel it and rekindles lost senses, letting them taste rot in their mouths and feel their bones poking out of their skin

And Zeliek was a paladin, not a priest

>>47370690
When did they do that? As far as I know they've always just been rare, never declared non-canon.

What made Zeliek unique isn't that he could use it while undead, but that he could use it while being a full blown death knight under the lich king's control.

>>47370736
>They could never channel it just fine though it burns them when they channel it and rekindles lost senses, letting them taste rot in their mouths and feel their bones poking out of their skin

I just said that, you egg.

The reason I'm uoset is that it changed from "you can channel the light, but it hurts like you're burning" to "holy undead priests are non-canon now, only specific character is allowed to do that. All forsaken priests are canon shadow, holy is only open to players for gameplay reasons"

>>47370872
But they never did that. That's not why Zeliek was weird

>>47370872
>>47370925
Zeliek was weird because, well look at his taunts. He tells everyone to leave, that he doesnt want to hurt them. He asks for forgiveness for every death he causes. Hes well aware of what the lich king is doing. Hes first hand viewing these terrible acts and cant stop hus body.

As for the light. Even in death, corrupted by the lich king, he could wield the light with no burns, and at full effect. The light always follows those with true conviction. Scarlet crusaders wield it, undead xan wield it, if they believe. It has always vurned them to heal and be healed, because technically their rotting asses are corrupted life. As for the detail of feeling things and regaining senses and clarity, isnt that wrath they introduced that? It isnt that new.

So for my campaign I wanted to focus less on leet drops and more on craft something you're proud of. So i wanted to have them discover recipes/buy patterns, and learn to craft their stuff. Wowhead already has lists for everything theyd need, so i can work with drops of linen, jems, erc from mobs /nodes. Assuming the look for some of it. The alchemist will have to do checks for spotting herbs, miner for ore, etc.

I think theres something great about crafting your armor, not just killing a boss for an upgrade. Sure theyll have some sweet loot, but i dont expect tirisfal regalia to drop in a si gle run from their group. Its something they find plans for and craft with stuff they found there.

>>47371167
Wow

That is so unlike Warcraft, where craftable things are nice little additions, like bombs or enchantments. But all the really good shit is a drop or a quest reward

Except for Sulfuras

>>47371301
Kind of depended on expansion and time during the expansion. In vanilla, if you didn't get to do raiding (which back then wasn't an automatic thing; the entry level to 40-man raids was lot higher and there was no LFR), craftable epic gear was among the best stuff you could have. TBC's craftable BoP gear was better than early raids, but became outdated pretty quick (though some mobs and bosses dropped recipies for gear of equal quality to the drops in the same raid). In later expansions professions were mostly useful for buffs (gear-crafting professions gave you special enchants, alcemy better flasks etc.), and then mostly relegated to non-essential bonus things.

>>47371301
Oh i know. But i feel them going ino those fights and always finding at least one upgrade isnt really condusive. If yhey flund some rare plans for stuff that lasted a while, thatd be sweet. And if i did do sulfuras, its last then a hell of a lit longer.

>>47371599
Thats my idea. Have them find stuff to craft. Sure theyll find some epic stuff, but its going to be rare, and i want them to feel accomplished in making their armor they want.

>>47371301
>That is so unlike Warcraft
It's unlike World of Warcraft.
Stop equalizing the fucking MMO with the Setting.

>>47372831
That sounds quite fun to be honest, do it somewhat like the Witcher 3, merchants will sometimes have books or maps that will detail about old research that scholars have decoded about amazing equipment used by so and so for this and that.

Then have it become a hunt for finding the actual diagrams that are needed to craft those upgradeable armor and weapons.

Might even throw in some story and lore drops in there as well. Reminds me of the feline armor set where the witcher that had used it wound up being captured by mages who in turn started to test how far a witcher can handle pain and other assorted physical things before some explosion kills them all and leaves the witcher, still alive and burning stuck underneath a cavern.

>>47355954
Why did they tie her tits?

>>47373534
It's shibari. That's just how it works.

>>47373191
Even then, it's only unlike current WoW. Crafting used to be a lot more relevant (although I liked what they did with cooking in Mists).

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>This is official art

Interracial "relations" are canon...?

>>47373894
>Alleria and Turaylon

>>47373894
Did you never notice that all the Windrunner sisters had a thing for humans?

>>47373894
>Mok'nathal
>Halforcs
>Halfelves

I fucking wonder.

>>47373894
>Med'an

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>>47369505
Right now, your character concepts seem of that awfully brooding sort; They all have some reason to be all goth and possibly edgey.

The Human has his undeath to brood about, the Worgen his curse, and the NElf his demon hunter-y-ness. I'll admit I'm not caught up on Demon Hunter lore.

Although it could be used right, at the moment I can only think of your party going something like pic related.

>It's a human only campaign
>It's a 3.5e campaign
>It's a pre 3rd War campaign

>>47353705
>Never having Deathwing Interact with anyone

He was all over Cata quests, and a lot of the low level leveling quests that got changed in Cata.
Also he'd randomly fly over a zone and set it the fuck on fire, killing you.
Deathwing was damn-near Omnipresent in Cata.

>>47375237
the only place I remember Deathwing showing up in low level questing was that retarded chain in the Badlands where he magically appears in that cave without anyone noticing, and then completely ignores you after killing Rheastrazsa

Meanwhile Cho'gall had actual voice acting and was way less stupidly hammy

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>>47370450
Because he's the only one with any influence with Sylvanas.

>>47370105
Magi are Doctors, Warlocks are Lawyers, Blood Knights are ??? Priests are Surgeons?

>>47375406

What about those three quests, also in the Badlands with those three NPCs that have you play through their different recollections of Deathwing's arrival?

>>47375545
dumb comic relief that adds nothing to Deathwing's character

>>47375517
All I know is that being a hunter (and probably a warrior) is officially "Disappointed Tier." Rogue is at the fringe of this group.

>>47375685

...is talking to your Blood Elf elders about shedding dependence on Arcane Energy like talking to your human elders about Fossil Fuels?
Do they think you're a weirdo loser, and are they disappointed that you did in fact get a haircut?
>Grow it out you damn hippy!

>>47375957
they skipped having to figure out the transition and went straight from oil to coal to nuclear fusion without fucking everything up on inefficient renewables

>>47375577
it was pretty fun

>>47378088
it was, but it hardly reinforces the idea of Deathwing being a good villain

>>47375957
I imagine that a lot of the heavier fel magic was more popular among the younger blood elf crowd, and that their warlock covens were full of /pol/-esque arguing about how rangers and high elves are just pussies who don't want to make Quel'thalas great again.

>>47378088
It's pretty symbolic of what's wrong with Cataclysm, though. In vanilla Theldurin the Lost was a half insane ex-member of the Twilight's Hammer who'd constantly make ominous statements that hinted about the Old Gods (who were pretty unknown at the time).

"You got it! Oh, hope glimmers!

Your efforts may yet save us, <name>. A monument they should make of you! A shrine they should build! May your name be praised until your grandchildren have grandchildren!

Unless...THEY are freed and rise to the surface. If that happens then you can forget about children.

If THEY are freed, then we're all worm food."

... And then in Cataclysm they just made him a bog standard drunk comedy dwarf.

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>>47347175
>Anywho, has anyone seen the below conversion before?
> . . . for 5th edition of Dungeons and Dragons
>not 3.x master race

>>47371599
I miss Vanilla and BC, getting that rare drop for Engineering and Tailoring, then being able to do random Gruul's Lair and Tempest Keep runs to get crafting materials. Oh lord, and all those sweet warlock drops off of Gruul and his ogres...

>>47379067
>Oh god, Khorium power cores
The chopper was just a gold sink. The epic flyer was hell.

>>47379195
Shit, i remember when you could build the first flyer, think you saved the cost if the mount, and then realized you were going to spend that entire 1200 just on Flux and Auctions on single Khorium ores and Fel Iron Bolts. You know, because when you make your last 7 bars into bolts it always comes out one handful per bar.

>>47374019
cant remember sylvanas being in love with a human

i do remember reading somewhere that lorthemar was in love with her but he never got to tell her his feelings due to arthas killing her and stuff

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>>47379411
>Nathanos Blightcaller
>Only bitch to get a redone skin to look more human
>Gets shit on by elves cause he was a human
>Becomes the second top ranger
>Sylvanas keeps him in charge for reasons

Though I'm sure she's been doing fun things with Koltira and he boy Natahanos now.

>>47378942
I work with what I find. 3.5 was cool, but my friends want 5th. I'm here to present a story and make them happy. Does the 3.5 Warcraft book really add that much to the classes and magic system?

>>47375517
I am trying really hard, but I can't actually figure out if these are canon characters or not and I'd like to know if they have names.

Help me out anon?

>>47378375
wait, that was theldurin?
damn it.

>>47380239
And in an expansion centered around the Twilight's Hammer no less.

>>47380208
Those are the four members of Kael'thas's council. You fight them in Tempest Keep as part of the Kael'thas fight.

>>47380500
No, they aren't. They aren't even the Illidari Council in Black Temple.
Do you recognize Capernian, Saguinar, Thaladred or the Engineer?

>>47380208
They aren't, they're just random blood elves.

>>47380371
that's just sad.
I realized that around SC2:WOL blizzard started to become a meme company.
everything had to be filled with the latest internet memes and happenings because it is fun.

So, the legion is dropping some pretty nice lore tidbits.
Apparently Dalaran floats over kara for a while.

>>47382708
WEll, how else would you expect it to keep afloat? Those frequent flier miles have to be redeemed at your local ley line so you can keep the engine running after all.

>>47374057
What the Half Tauren at?

>>47382901
they were just floating over it on the way to broken isles.
Interestingly jaina is there as well. So it might be the place where jaina gets kicked out by mr meme neutral.

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>>47375685
Rogues are spies, assassins, and saboteurs too. So they are probably seen as a necessary evil.

>>47375957
>>47375957
>>47378375

Magic is a big fucking deal for Elves in Warcraft. They are hopelessly addicted to it, and they are also proud of their magical accomplishments. The Blood elves just got off some lean times were they saw their friends and families turn into Withered and rot their brains away in withdrawal. Huntards and warriors hardly use magic, so they weren't as affected by it as others. Hence all the High elves being straight-edge elitists like Varessa. So of course the Ranger department is looked down on during a surge of magical excess. Blood Knights are probably regarded highly because they took back the Light with brute force and brought the benefits and healing it offered back to a people that needed it.

>>47348588
I can only hope that's fake.

>>47348703
Eh, the occasional help from other dragons was interesting.

>>47353705
>The problem with Deathwing is that he should have been a smarter and more political opponent. He's a shapeshifter who was able to perform subtle mindcontrol. Manipulating mortals was one of his things.
BEFORE he got his wounds repeatedly re-opened by numerous enemies including a large group of mortal mages, Khadgar using a fucking parlor trick designed to unscrew chair legs and open bodices (That shit was fucking great) on his rivets, and then the other Aspects in DotD.

His wounds got so bad that they started to show up on his mortal frame when he tried to shape-shift.

>>47378088
>>47378375
Yeah it was fun, but it should NOT have been Theldurin the Lost who got turned into it, fuck they could have had it be his brother that came looking for him or some shit if they INSISTED on them being related.

>>47383282
>Eh, the occasional help from other dragons was interesting.
it was a slight exaggeration, but Chromie is one of the few dragons that's neither poorly written nor outright boring. She's the only dragon that you can be sure something interesting will happen when she shows up

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>>47383381
...So far.

But knowing Blizzard it's only a matter of ...time.

>>47383210
You know something I can see more city, richer or more influential blood elves being more stuck up towards the rangers but the more country or those living closer to the Ghostlands or having connections with the Windrunners being more appriciative of rangers and their ilk

>>47383381
>She

>>47383437
DELETE THIS
https://youtu.be/lQ9_ShYKXhc?t=1m35s

>>47383450
Oh god, her HotS face is hideous.

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>>47383437
Heroes of the storm has a great quote for her
>Everyone calls me Chromie, but my real name is actually Chronormu...ugh, no, it is not a male name.
>You clearly don't understand the intricacies of dragon culture!

>>47383398
>>47383381
I'm going to have Chromie as a mini easter egg throughout our campaign. Only if the players look around, she'll never be called out until later on in the plaguelands. I think she's a great character who has yet to fall to the shitty writing lately. But Legion can change a lot.

>>47383430
I imagine that there's a slow cultural shift occuring in Silvermoon, thanks to the betrayal of Kael'Thas and the leadership of Lor'Themar. Leaving rangers more respected, and mages less so.

Of course, in a society of people that live as long as elves, such a shift has to be very slow

The reason Orc men are angry is because Orc women's mouths aren't big enough to give head.

Vise-versa, orc men can't give to their women.

>>47375237
Yes, but his interaction mostly boils down to him flying around shitting fire on everything. Deathwing is supposed to be highly intelligent, and a master manipulator (before Cataclysm most of hsi involvement in the lore, after the whole Dragon Soul thing, was him manipulating things from the shadows). But in Cata he mostly comes cross as Godzilla with wings. A big monster that flies around roaring and setting things on fire.

>>47375517
...Is that Mannimarco on the left?

>>47383801

> ...Is that Mannimarco on the left?

No, he doesn't look JRPG enough.

>>47383801
>Yes, but his interaction mostly boils down to him flying around shitting fire on everything. Deathwing is supposed to be highly intelligent, and a master manipulator (before Cataclysm most of hsi involvement in the lore, after the whole Dragon Soul thing, was him manipulating things from the shadows). But in Cata he mostly comes cross as Godzilla with wings. A big monster that flies around roaring and setting things on fire.
After getting his ass kicked repeatedly from BtDP to DotD he was basically driven even more insane from the pain and having to draw more power from the Old Gods.

Plus, even his humanoid shifts could no longer pass for human.

So if shamans commune with nature spirits for magic, what the fuck to druids do? How are they different?

>>47383895

Druids communicate with nature spirits.

Shamans communicate with elemental spirits.

But the again, there is the druids of the fire.

>>47383895
druids kind of are nature spirits

>>47383929
Ok, so what's the difference between nature and elemental spirits? I don't see the point of a distinction?

>>47383450
that voice sounds cute.

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What's with the slutty outfits, seriously?

>>47383939

Nature spirits are spirits of the living things. Elemental spiritis are the spirits of the elements.

>>47383948

The enemies will have a hard time hitting if you they are looking at your tits.

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>>47383895

Where shamans call for help from literal elemental spirits, & dark shamans command them, Druids don't communicate with the elements, so much as they make plants and nature move to their will.

They focus their energies to growth, life and the cycle itself.

Also, they're in communication with the animal spirits, not elelmental. These primal spirits are literally forces of nature. Lo'gosh, Cenarius' pops, etc. they are the ones that assist the druids, not the elements.

>>47369505
human paladin
Make him and dk best buddies.

>>47375030
>brooding
Why? They can be rp'ed just fine without beeing broody at all. Being a dk or dh doesn't mean that they should be grim and stuff.

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>>47383971

human paladin disguised as a blood elf paladin using orb of the sindorei

how would you guys write a demonic patron that a warlock in your party made a pact with?

>>47383948
rule of cool. or in this case rule of sexy

>>47383948
Remember nelfs have a matriarchal culture where women are the warriors a d leaders whilst the men are artists and philosophers

Their armor likely is meant to exemplify feminism because this epitomizes vigor and power to them

A better question is why male nelfs aren't forced to wear bikini and boob plates

>>47383963
>>47383949
Ok so shamans barter or manipulate/dominate elemental spirits which aren't directly connected to the world

Druids commune with the world spirit and control life via sheer force of will

I guess druids should be wisdom casters and shamans should by charisma casters then.

>>47383895
>>47383929
>>47383936
>>47383939
>>47383963
>>47384062
Druids specifically use the Emerald Dream at least partially as a conduit for their connection to nature, otherwise they are very similar.

Also shaman do have connections to their ancestor spirits and spirits in general, a kind of benevolent quasi necromancy.

>>47384045

in WC3 they ran around wearing a kilt and nothing else, so it was a thing

>>47384093
>>47384045
fuck. Blizzard ruined them

>>47384045
>>47383948

I've have loved to have seen the Warden outfits be the basis for NElves.

But then, I'm generally salty that you can't get a Warden outfit for a Rogue in WoW.

>>47384153

Back in WC3, you kinda gotta impression that NElves were savage nobles, in contrast to the Orcs' noble savages.

In WoW, they became waifus.

>>47384173

Funny thing about that, they were originally gonna run around in bikinis under their cloaks and you still see art of that design pop up now and then even though it never made it into WC3

>>47347175
Wanting the DM to pregen their characters, does filth like this actually play still.

>>47384174

Yeah, that really ticks me off.

They really should have kept more like say...Disney's Atlantis. Great power hidden away by a people who've learned not to draw on it save in the most desperate situations. An interesting mix of primal savagery and old grace.

As opposed to the High Elves and MAGIC EVERYTHING, GOD I NEED MORE MAGIC ON MY EVERYTHING!

>>47384187

Then I'm really glad they moved away from it. The Warden look ended up one of my favorite WC designs.

I wonder how the rest of the Wardens are handling 'The Alliance is allowing WHAT back onto our side?' with all the new Demon Hunters.

>>47384209

They're villains in Legion so I'd say "pretty badly".

>>47384214

Wait, the Wardens are villains? Why?

>>47384199
And they seemed too peaceful.

In WC3, NElves are very very murder happy. Hell, it made Malfurion uncomfortable that Tyrande was killing corrupted furbolgs.

>>47384219

Cordana Felsong was corrupted (or was always evil) in WoD and she will lead her faction of Watchers against you as servants of Gul'dan. It's also rumored from some datamining that Maiev and her watchers will be enemies in content not yet added to the beta.

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>>47384199
Considering how often we've made characters, and how bad they are at math and focusing? Yeah, I have no problem saving game time writing characters for them.

Are pregen characters really that rare a thing?

>>47384234
Cordana was corrupted by the last bit of stuff we bring for the legendary ring. Not wlawys evil, but just as up for corruption.

>>47384234
Maiev I see going into the Akama scenario, where demon hunters flee for their mission. I believe.

Also, Maiev has been outcast for a while right? Her choices almost killed Tyrande, hell she lied about seeing her die in order to trick the Night Elves. She twice disobeyed them and fled to Outland chasing down her tsundere husbando. I see any Wardens that follow her as evil, but there should still be the majority that are good.

>>47384234

God fucking dammit.

So literally the 'Dealing with demonic fuckwits' group is now Demonic Fuckwits?

Blizzard just loves to fuck up everything I like, don't they?

>>47384257
>but there should still be the majority that are good.

There has literally never been a "good" Warden.

>>47384236

>TFW no gobbo waifu

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>you will never go back in time to the war of the ancients through the caverns of time
>you will never get turned into a QT night elf as a disguise
>you will never be dominated by queen Azshara and turned into her servant

Feels bad man.

>>47384299
I don't think humans and goblins can breed in Warcraft

humans can breed with elves and orcs, and presumably draenei due to orcs being able to breed with draenei, but beyond that we don't know which races area capable of producing offspring together

>>47384345
Orcs and ogres can as well.

You'd figure with dwarves, gnomes and humans all being curse of flesh creatures from the same titan creation machine area, theyd be able to breed. But i cant find a single instance.

>>47384382
Maybe just wait to see what comes of the GnomeXHuman couple in Northrend.

>>47384382
Really, I always thought gnomes and dorfs could interbreed and there was this gnome-human couple in Sholazar. No idea on kids for those two though

>>47384345
>>47384382
>>47384480
>>47384494
The way I see it, it's sort of divided into groups

Eredar and Draenei can breed with anything because they're the big magic precursor race (and probably shouldn't be playable)

Ancient Azerothian species can not interbreed unless they originally were the same species then split due to magic mutation. So trolls and tauren can not interbreed, but trolls and elves can, and tauren and taunka can

All cruse-of-flesh afflicted species can interbreed with each other, and with elves. Because elves are so mutated that they're basically more titanic than natural

Humans alone can also interbreed with orcs, due to cosmic coincidence

>>47384339

Isn't that Tyrande?

>>47369505
Human Warrior

A full on "FOR STOOOOOOORMWIND" type.

>>47384765

I believe so yes.

>>47384744
> Humans alone can also interbreed with orcs, due to cosmic coincidence

That would make a awesome pick-up line in the lore.

'Babe the universe wants us to breed'

>>47384829

And Malfurion is hitting that daily and nightly and ever so rightly.

>>47380208
>>47375517
From Left to Right:
Spookmaster Ominous
Captain-General Swordsenhans
High Priestess Chastity Heart
Archmage Thimblestaff the Lame

>>47384744
>Humans alone can also interbreed with orcs, due to cosmic coincidence

Has that ever been proven? Oh wait yeah Me'dan, almost forgot about that shit.

>>47384871

Well, that was with half-dranei, half-orc and a demon possessed mage.

>>47384871
half-orcs were brought up in the original RPG books

>>47384899

That's just non-canon stuff.

>>47384884

Yeah, Me'dan is part demon, part titan, part human, part orc and part draenei. Also a ninja. And a mage.

>>47384931
How Knaak wasn't fired after merely coming up with the idea for Me'dan is completely beyond me

>>47384957
>Me'dan

Is he still canon?

>>47384979
Retconned by omission. Med'an has never been mentioned for a long time, and Blizzard intends to keep it that way.

>>47384931
I'm pretty sure the RPG has never explicitly declared noncanon. Sure, it's ignored and retconned all the time, but what ISN'T these days? At this point it's very clear that Blizzard has no regard for what they've written before, they'll do whatever they want with the current plot and then rejig the lore to fit later. Canon is not a word in their vocabulary anymore.

>>47385116
They will have to mention him if the Guardian business is revisited.

>>47385164
Are the Warcraft and World of Warcraft RPG books considered canon?

A: No. The RPG books were created to provide an engaging table-top role-playing experience, which sometimes required diverging from the established video game canon. Blizzard helped generate a great deal of the content within the RPG books, so there will be times when ideas from the RPG will make their way into the game and official lore, but you are much better off considering the RPG books non-canonical unless otherwise stated

There was a big shift around 2010-2012 when they flat out rejected the tabletop rpgs.

>>47385185
They can just retcon him out of existence. I think Khadgar is going to become the new Guardian (although without all of the awesome power they used to have, since there's no longer the Order of Tirisfal to empower them).

>>47384382
the base dorfs and gnomes were metallic
Humans were crippled vrykul

>>47385602
And vrykul were originally made of stone, but all of them fell to the curse of flesh

>>47385632
nah, the vrykul seem to be organic from the start. Loken starts making metal vrykul later.

>>47385632
i believe vrykuls were iron made like gnome?

>>47385709
Where are you pulling that from?

They're titanic creations from Northrend, all other titanic creations started as inorganic and became organic thanks to the influence of Yog-saron, who is under Northrend.

Loken made metal vrykul and also made metal dwarves, and both for the same purpose, they are immune to the curse of flesh

ITT: Things about WoW now that triggers your lore autism
>The dragon aspects are no longer powerful AT FUCKING ALL
>Wrathion will all but certainly be forgotten or become Neltharion 2.0 for no reason
>Old gods are overlooked to focus on the Legion
>Rehash of Stormrage in the Emerald Nightmare raid WITHOUT YSERA
>Artifacts
>Garrosh's random, anticlimactic death from Green Jezugzug who cheated
>All stories after WotLK, not including MoP because it was self-contained mostly

Oh and
>N'zoth constantly taunts us but never shows his tentacly face

>>47386871
>>Rehash of Stormrage in the Emerald Nightmare raid WITHOUT YSERA
whats wrong with ysera?

>>47386871
>Absolutely everything to do with the bombing of Theramore, everything, from how every person involved behaved, to the results of the bomb itself

>>47386938
>whats wrong with ysera?
Corruption!

>>47386963
metzen please

>>47386871
The sad part is MoP's lore is actually pretty interesting, but it's all wrapped up in a cutesy look for the first half of the leveling.

>>47387004
Just wait till you see certain demons struck by our new Light Corruption.

>>47387018
the pandaren were pretty infuriating.
>>47387041
seen that, laughed, cried and laughed again
I am so done

>Old gods are overlooked to focus on the Legion
Those one is understandable. After using the legion to abort WoD (which was stupid, though so was the idea of WoD in the first place) it made sense to have a legion expansion next. And it looks like it actually will have a bit of old god focus, with the priest weapon and getting to see a fully corrupted planet.

>N'zoth constantly taunts us but never shows his tentacly face
Well, he is the last old god still active on Azeroth. They're probably saving him as a final or close to final boss in a proper old god expansion, rather than making him a mid-expansion detour like Yogg.

>>47386938
she ded

>>47387084
>she ded
why?

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>>47387107
The Emerald Nightmare gets the best of Ysera and corrupts her, and the PCs will be forced to put her down.

This will be the THIRD dragon aspect the PCs will have killed.

>>47386871
I don't mind the focus on the Legion. They were the BBEG of WC3, and established as the main villains of the setting and responsible for most of the shit that's gone down on Azeroth, from the Sundering to the orc incasion, before Blizz made the Old Gods and the Void Lords into the even bigger bad guys. We'll probably get to kick Void Lord ass one or two expansions down the line anyway.

>>47387140
I think Kosak hates dragons

>>47387163
dragons share a model with his waifu
they must die.

>>47387140
4th if you count Nozdormu, who will go insane in the future and get killed by time travelling PCs on behalf of his past self.

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>>47387211
The only Aspect who hasn't been killed is Alexstraza herself. She was captured and raped during Warcraft 2 by the Dragonmaw orcs, though, so it balances out.

>>47387245
imagine if they the writing had taken a dive before she was rescued

we'd probably have a boss fight against corrupted alex in blackrock mountain

>>47387291
Fortunately, we didn't. As consolation, we got one of her consorts.

>>47387245
>Bolvar is corrupted by the legion
>kills Alexstrasza and makes her his Sindragosa in ICC:green fire rehash edition

>Jaina finally snaps and dies as a raid boss
>old gods corrupt a grieving Kalec and tell him his other waifu is still in the sunwell
>players get to kill the aspect of magic, again, to stop him from fucking up the sunwell, again

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>>47387364
>Kalecgos LITERALLY confessed his love to the (anthropomorphized) Sunwell at the end of TBC
>A blue dragon wants to literally fuck the Sunwell

>>47387163

Kosak is the reason WoW has gone to shit. You can so clearly see when he comes on as head writer in Cataclysm

>>47387485
When is that?

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>>47387140
To be specific:
>When Cenarius begins to succumb to the Emerald Nightmare, Malfurion, Elothir, and Koda Steelclaw summon Ysera to ask for her aid. Ysera believes that the only way to save the Forest Lord is with the Tears of Elune, and sends an adventurer to a nearby temple of Elune to retrieve them.
>However, Xavius attacks the temple and steals the Tears of Elune before Malfurion can use them to save Cenarius. Without the Tears Cenarius succumbs to corruption, and Malfurion pursues Xavius in his rage at the loss of his shan'do. Unfortunately, Xavius is not done taking from Malfurion: when Ysera and an adventurer locate Xavius, he is able to corrupt the former Aspect herself, turning her into a dragon of Nightmare. Xavius and Ysera retreat with Malfurion held captive, followed by the adventurer and Tyrande Whisperwind.
>A reunion with Tyrande is something Xavius has longed for for many years. With Malfurion held captive, Xavius gives the High Priestess an ultimatum: she can pursue him and spend her husband's last moments at his side, or she can return to the Temple of Elune and protect it from Xavius's forces which will be led by Ysera. Mournful and distraught, Tyrande chooses her goddess over her love, though the decision hurts her. At the temple Ysera is put to rest, and with her last breath she states that the nightmare felt so real.
>An echo of Ysera remains aware within the Emerald Dream and she helps in the final battle against Xavius.

tl;dr - Xavius - the first satyr, for those unaware - stops Team Nature from rescuing Cenarius from corruption, corrupts Ysera himself, kidnaps Malfurion, and forces Tyrande to choose between saving Malfurion or killing Ysera to protect the Temple of Elune (Tyrande chooses the temple).

>>47387673

what the shit

are they aware that this new lore reads like a parody of WoW ?

>>47387697
No, Kosak thinks he's actually clever.

He's near Vince Mcmahon levels of retarded writing

>>47387697
Druids wanted their Emerald Dream expansion for a long time.
Legion says, "you don't get an expansion, but here's an Emerald Nightmare raid for you. Enjoy."

>>47387713

People have wanted an Emerald Dream expansion for years and they give us "LOL ALL CORRUPTED HERE IS RAID"

What the fuck is wrong with them

>>47387723
all the coke has left it's mark

>>47387712

He really is. Between this and murdering the town of Darkshire Legion looks like the worst so far.

>>47387759
Well, by aiming for quantity of horrible writing decisions over one really really really horrible writing decision surrounded by otherwise pretty good writing, it's already surpassed the terrible writing present in MoP. Add to that the hideous unnecessary lore changes and it's about tied with Cata

But we must wait for release to see if it reaches WoD levels of unforgivably bad

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>>47387723
How about this? Remember that archdruid quest giver in Alterac Valley who helps you summon Ivus the Frost Lord? She died in the pre-Cataclysm novel, The Shattering. She's a boss in the Emerald Nightmare.

>>47387801
>Ivus the Forest Lord
Fucked that up.

>>47387800
>one really really really horrible writing decision surrounded by otherwise pretty good writing
Theramore or the Siege of Orgrimmar?

>>47387800

Pandaria was fine until Landfall happened. The red vs blue stuff is always poison

>>47387877
Theramore

Orgrimmar was pretty well written with the sole exception of the ending, which was bad, but not really that bad in the grand scheme of "shitty warcraft writing"

>>47387915
>Orgrimmar was pretty well written
please

>>47387980
Lor'Themar does stuff, Mekkatorque does stuff and the raid feels like a proper raid, where we get to do stuff too...

...

OK yeah it was pretty shit,but it could have been a lot worse

>>47387759
Legion seems to have pretty solid overarching plot at least (as opposed to "here's some pandas to cash in on the Chinese audience" and "Orc Hitler travels back in time"), some boneheaded decisions notwithstanding (the standard "lolcorruption" stuff and turning everybody in Darkshire evil cause a major NPC had the same last name as an NPC in warlock green fire quest; granted, only rogues have to deal with that bullshit).

>>47388128
An overarching plot is a bad thing, it forces everything to be tied to a central plotline, and that makes the world seem smaller.

Part of what I loved about Vanilla and MoP was the lack of an overarching plot tying everything down

>>47388026
robo cat
Horde is super powerful underdog rebels

>>47388128

The metaplot and YOU ARE THE CHOSEN HERO OF LEGEND stuff is the worst IMO.

>>47388173
Horde haven't been underdogs since Wrath

You know, back when the game itself favoured the alliance, it actually sort of lent itself to the setting. Of course the Alliance have it easier, they're more organised with better construction, more advanced weaponry, and most importantly, more people.

>>47388128
>warlock green fire quest
Huh?

>>47388209
Best quest chain post cataclysm.

>>47388256
I stopped towards the end of Cata.

>>47388164
>>47388188
>>47388164
>>47388188
I don't mind there being some kind of solid plot thread; that's been present in some form since the first expansion (ie. "Illidan is fucking stuff up, go deal with it", followed by "Lich King is fucking stuff up, go deal with it" in the next expansion), and think zones having some overarching plot explored over multiple questlines is preferable to just having a bunch of unrelated quests ( I think WoD questing was actually pretty solid; each zone felt different, and had their own plotline connected with the metaplot of establishing a foothold on Draenor and fighting the Iron Horde).
But the whole "you, yes, specifically you, are the legendary hero who commands your faction forces and does everything; just ignore all these other guys running around and raiding with you" (which is even dumber when you're just playing as random dps #12, and not the raid leader or anything) is stupid.

I'm pretty sure that a few expansion down the line, all major lore characters have been killed off so Your PC can be the warchief/high king.

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>>47383948
Real question is why do artists draw nelves as petite and delicate? Nelf women are tall enough to play in the NBA and are cut enough to model for a muscle magazine on the side. And being mutated trolls, are probably freakishly stronger than they appear.

>>47384173
>Can't be a rogue in plate

Roll a warrior, spec Fury.

>>47385185
Most of the Mage class questlines are Guardian related in the Beta. Zero mention of the abomination.

>>47388393
I wish they'd introduce an archetypical character of every spec. And say that those guys are the canonical "PCs"

So, like, some big orc dude is the canoncal holder of Odin's swords, while some night elf somewhere holds the scythe of Elune, and so on

>>47388553
>big orc dude is the canoncal holder of Odin's swords
nah
it has to be a vrykul.

>>47388968
Vrykul aren't a playable race though

And if there's a human warrior, it's got to be the guy using Thoradin's sword

>>47388482

Both fanartists and actual licensed ones tend to forget your average nelf chick is around 7 feet tall of toned muscle. A lot of people just draw them as human size or even blood elf size, as part of the whole "we can't remember what night elves are about" thing that's been going on since vanilla.

>>47347175

Would you a Li-Li?

>>47388553
I'm more interested in knowing which weapon for each class the canonically right is. Paladin and Shaman are obvious, while other classes less, like Warrior and Rogue.

>>47388553
No, WoW's current story sucks because the writing focuses too much on characters, which tends to just devolve into the worst kind of comic book plots. WoW was at its best when even the most major NPC was still fairly passive, and the focus was on exploring the world.

Adding more characters isn't going to solve anything when Blizzard sucks at writing characters.

>>47387673

WHAT THE FUCK NOT MY WAIFU GODDAMN IT BLIZZARD

FUCK SHIT CUNTS

>>47389044
The non-furry in me says no. But her personality is adorable. Little Sister Li-li is where she stays.

Chromie in gnomie form though? I'm all in.

>>47389497

[Spoiler]What about goblin form Chromie?[/spoiler]

>>47389539
You Fel Queen Chromie?

I don' tknow man, she's still got her personality, but dem horns man.

OT though. Finally taking today to sit through and read what's new in 5th. So far all I've heard of is inspiration, saves for every stat, not just three, and beyond that mostly the same? I guess I'll find out. Really looking forward to starting this wow game. Dat Vanilla openness and story.

>>47389628

She's still adorable IMO. Also horns for handlebars

>>47389044
bit too young right now. give it a few expansions... assuming Legion isn't the beginning of the end. Then I would, especially if she ends up the traditional Pandaren THICK.

Warcraft 4 set a generation after the Legion invasion, giving a bunch of factions time to rebuild and integrate all the tech n' magic they've looted across the expansions NEVER EVER

>>47387712

Time until we have to /kiss someone's ass for a quest?

>>47388482

>Roll a warrior, spec Fury.

The issue there is you run into 'Fury Warriors are not shadowstepping, poison dagger throwers'

>>47390135
Well, we already had the /kiss frog quest for the argent tournament. It's just one more step...

>>47389436
Yeah. WoW writing probably peaked at WotLK. Not that it didn't have dumb things (Malygos catching the raiboss insanity syndrome, "I'll get you next time Gadget!" Lich King, and the ending), but for the most part it was OK, and you had the big named characters present, but mostly staying in the sidelines (rather than in previous expansions where they did practically nothing, or the later ones where the PCs are relegated to statists whenever they show up), and while the PCs are acknowledged as badass heroes the game doesn't try to build Your PC specifically as the ultimate hero of destiny.

I still prefer TBC, though, because I found the setting more interesting and prefer Illidari and the Legion over Scourge. Ulduar is the best instance Blizz has ever made, though.

>>47390059

RTSes are pretty much over.

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>>47390594
I loved BC too. It was the last expansion where the player wasn't front-stage getting worshiped.

It is funny reading wrath-babies put their first expansion on a pedestal, ignoring how previous players hated it and thought new players who never learned what CC is were a cancer that was killing WoW.

>>47390852
I can remember the pain of MC, as well as spending hours helping my guild's Paladins and Warlocks get their mounts. Hell, I remember both selling and doing pro bono attunement raids in BC, just to help the server's population of active raiders.

>>47390852
>>47390594

I liked both TBC and WotLK, I guess I wasn't as resigned over the Malygos goes evil thing because it was one of the first times. Northrend was definitely not as fun and colorful as Outland, but it was easier to quest with guildies for it which was a big plus for me. And the dungeon finder was a huge help. Ulduar was the best raid/instance ever.

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Closing question for this thread:

Which Warcraft girl would you like to be transformed into WCG?

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>>47389044

>>47392680
pretty much any elf.

They live for what, millennia? Plus like, natural magical ability.

>>47392680
Maiev, assuming the fanfic and art is true

>>47393391
If you're gay for Illidan, why not be Tyrande?

>>47393326
>>47393391
Sluts.

>>47393612
because warden costumes are cool

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>>47383282
>I can only hope that's fake.
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-k_1uAR8AI

It's very real. It's looking like Elune created at least some of the first Naaru.

>>47388482
if you stand a night elf next to a human in game, the night elf is like 2-3 feet taller. now add the fact that night elves have been hunting and training for thousands of years and you get a 7+ foot tall solid muscle bound killing machine. they may look gay as fuck but they're deadly.

>>47393675
That sounds like a much better waifu than the wimpy cheerleaders we got

>>47393716
its a trade off, the elves are more useful to keep around but cheerleaders are easier to toss around

>>47393660
I'm sure Tyrande could get one if she asked. Especially if she asked Illidan to get it for her.

Especially if he knew what she planned to do while wearing it.

>>47393834

Hell in one AU she became a warden while Maiev became High Priestess.

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So... how big are the actual landmasses on Azeroth?

Iin the Lorthemar story, he takes most of a day to go from Quelthalas to the tip of the Plaguelands to the Farstrider Lodge. Whereas for a player it's roughly a 7 minute mounted walk (no fly zone).

The movie is making Stormwind magnificently huge, but Lakeshire looks to be the same damn size as in game.

I'm just curious so I can set expectations of travelling through areas. I imagine Elwynn is fuckhuge, given the diversity of aminals, mini towns, and supposedly beign a trade route. I knwo Ironforge is (and was in Alpha) much larger and deeper.

For the most part, their continents converted to our scale are maybe the size of California? I mean, it's still big, but California as the eastern Kingdoms means it's a fairly tiny world.

>>47394042
I've always seen kalimdor as the size of the north american continent

>>47393391
>>47393326

Maiev or Tyrande are acceptable answers

>>47394042
well I think Goldshire is supposed to have a population of 20,000, so maybe that'll give you an idea

>>47390594
>Ulduar is the best instance Blizz has ever made, though.
Karazhan says he wants to see you out in the parking lot. He's got his shirt off and everything.

>>47394452
its objectively ICC.

>>47394485
>ICC

Only had 3 fights of note. Also killed 25 man raiding, suffered a light SoO time length, and was so easy, pugs could clear it.

>>47394452

Karazhan was cool up until the higher levels when it just became "throw in whatever" and it has one of the most underwhelming and random end bosses ever. We still to this day don't know what the fuck Prince Malchezzar was up to up there and why he was carrying Gorehowl, but yeah everyone pretty much expected us to get to fight Medivh.

>>47387673
>xavius ends up currupting malfurion
>tyrande turns out to have gotten pregnant before losing malfurion
>sylvanas becomes the new "betrayer" and koltira taker her place as leader of the undead

so, they are turning malfurion evil and illidan good so that they both are enemies in the end while simultaneously killing all dragon aspects, what a crap

i think i get how alextrasza is going to die, the dark gods are gonna corrupt azeroth's core and she is going to sacrifice herself to purify it and the so-called new titan, which is going to requere a host body *cough*Thrall *cough* to kick ass on the burning legion... that, or Med'an appears out of fucking nowhere and saves the day instead

dont get me wrong, i love the horde, specially trolls and taurens but goddammit they are fucking up the lore so bad i cant believe it

>>47394568
Wasn't Malchezar using the ley lines to enter other timelines? I thought he snuck Gorehowl away from another timeline?

>>47394601

He has no official lore to this day, but it's a good speculation since all his drops are "lore-ish" weapons, not Legion-affiliated ones.

>>47394601
That's the running theory.

>>47394593
You do manage to save Malfurion in the Five-man Nightmare instance.

Not sure about Cenarius.

But yeah too many NPCs are getting either one shot killed or one shot corrupted for my tastes.

Ysera, the Exodar Naaru, fucking Darkshire, it's just getting to be too much,

>>47394042
I'd guess Blizzard doesn't even have a set of exact numbers to give writers, they just go with whatever they need or want at the time.

For WoW, everything needs to be super squished. For books, they can use more realistic sounding travel times. For the movie, Stormwind is important and they don't have to worry about melting anyone's toaster, so they can flex the budget and make it all huge and pretty. Lakeshire is less important, so it doesn't get the big budget remake and just gets to make players go "hey, I know that place!".

Its probably supposed to be roughly earth-sized.

>>47394667
>Not sure about Cenarius.
He's a boss in the Emerald Nightmare raid.

>>47394710
Yes, but do they show what happens after he's beaten?

>>47394042
Most people acknowledge that the in-game world is smaller than it actually should be. The Barrens are fucking HUGE and are known to take days to cross by itself on foot.

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>>47394485
ICC had a ridiculous amount of... let's call it narrative weight. It was the culmination of Arthas' storyline, which had shaped so much of Warcraft lore. The fall of Lordaeron, the Legion's invasion, Jaina's evacuees founding Theramore, Sylvanas creating the Forsaken, the high elves becoming the blood elves, all that can be tracked back to Arthas in some way, and that's not even going into the attachment we had formed to him as a personality during Warcraft 3. There was no way that ICC could end without SOME amount of cartharsis with all of that in mind.

As a raid, though? It's okay. I wouldn't say it's atmosphere was anywhere near as creepy or melancholic as Naxxramas was, and certain plot points, like the gunship battle and "there must always be a Lich King" were pretty stupid.

>>47394802
Yeah, the gunship battle should have been more of a ritualistic fight, before even the first boss.

A "Let's see who is worthy" deal.

>>47394678
Just going by modern speeds of travel, since for some of their items they are equivalent (subs and planes, etc.) and some more advanced (teleportation), from NY to Englad is roughly a week. That looks like the distance from Northrend to Eastern Kingdoms.

So to go from EK to Kalimdor is like 2 weeks? That loosk the distance form China to west coast U.S., and that's 14 or so days on a cargo ship.

So just raveling continents to help could (should) take up huge chunks of time without teleportation spells.

>>47394802
>It was the culmination of Arthas' storyline
>There was no way that ICC could end without SOME amount of cartharsis with all of that in mind.
Which is why the final fight with Arthas wasn't tested on the PTS and saved for live: because they wanted all the public to experience Arthas's finale firsthand. It's also why the fight was bugged such that siege damage from saronite bombs rebuilt the platform and made the fight infinitely easier. No PTS, no bugtesting.

>>47394839
Well, my point was that given the sheer narrative and emotional weight, ICC would have had to be Phantom Menace-levels of bad before it actually registered as "bad" to us. I don't think it's actually that good, but what it represents buys it a lot of goodwill.