Skorne Players Bitch and Moan For Another 500 Posts Edition

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Lets talk about Haley2 giving Stormwall Future Sight

>>47333887
She lost a lot bro.

- Stormwall can't get 4 FOC and don't have +2 MOV.
- Lost dedeye.
- Feat now is only model, not model/unit.
- lost old deceleration.

Haley 2 is just the shade of what she was.

I didnt even realize the change in her Feat.. that's soooooo huge.
She's probably still very strong but not an autoinclude inevery tuornament...

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Can someone explain to me what is exactly special about Bane Witch Agatha?

>>47334011
Well for one she can charge after vanish

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>>47334011

>>47334011
its good to see "bad cryx caster" syndrome still exists in mk3. shit that any other faction would love gets tossed aside for not being... well idk who it would be this edition, venethrax?

>>47333887
I'm okay with this. She's way less irritating in general terms to fight.

>>47333887
Let's instead talk about Ossyan giving Hyperion, Helios and Hypnos Future Sight and Deadeye.

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So, given the coming changes to warjack points, I need at least one more jack to fill out my lists. I've only ever really played eKreoss lists, and I've never fielded any warjack other than Fires of Salvation.
What other 'jack would work best with the Exemplar theme?

>>47334148
>Let's instead talk about Ossyan having Deadeye.

Fixxed for you bro.

Looking at the new Reclaimer being a Jack Marshal, and the way the new Marshal rules work, it looks to me like putting a Repenter with him may work pretty well. With an aim bonus and Strike True, that Repenter is going to be rocking RAT 9 on the flame thrower, which is pretty damned respectable. Plus, its a Repenter, and its just a generally useful light warjack to have around- a Vigilant would provide it with cover, but Reclaimers sitting at DEF 15/ ARM 15 with Ashen Veil means they are relatively difficult to kill and that Repenter could be pretty useful in a general sense, as they are a very effective light for their points.

Nothing us skorne players have said compared one ounce to the cryx bitching last night.

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You will never make love to a Skorne player without taking the black pill

>>47334194

Indictor and Templar spring to mind, both are pretty solid jacks.

>>47334239
Cryx players are in two camps. One camp is terrible at the game and went full rage mode.

The other group likes steampunk undead and are fairly reasonable people that didn't bane spam all day everyday. Doing things like playing fun lists with not Gaspy 2 in friendly games.

The first group got their asses banned on the PP forums after the cryx insider because they where raging hard enough to post like a goth teenagers live journal. The later group where still posting on the PP forums and took their insider very well and way better then skorne players did.

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>>47334148
Life is good my man.

>>47334282
There are two types of people.

1. Ass holes who generalize people into stupid categories.

2. Eat a dick

>>47334284
I just wait for the moment PP will tell us that Ossy feat now just give an extra ranged damage dice to FF in control range.

Ossy the new Gaspy 2.

>>47334301
Looks like we found the cryx player.

>>47334330
I mean, sure? But cryx is fine in mk3. Thats just a stupid turn of phrase

>>47334361
Tell that to the guy last night saying banes are worthless, cryx jacks are worthless, cryx is worthless, cryx can never kill a khador jack in a million years

>>47334301
Hows that forum ban working out?

>>47334312
Ossyan
Hyperion x2
Hypnos
Arkanist x2
Sylys

Spend the rest of your points on some infantry to gum up possible dangers and go to town.

Can any one tell me what the circle birdies do please? I'm considering picking up a "just for funsies" Circle list with Bog trogs and maybe a pack of Gators since I really like the circle beasts but the infantry doesn't appeal to me.

>>47334194

In Mk2, I liked taking Templars with him, as the 3 beat back attacks, 1 vassal attack, and extra melee attack from his feat (all with auto hit) really let it get around.

Sanctifier was also another good one, as he allows Kreoss2 to camp even more focus. You always lost a few knights going in, and I didn't always run Gravus to collect souls. When I ran both, Gravus would take one flank, and the Sanctifier would take the other.

I'd occasionally take the Avatar, but you always had that situation where it's feat turn, and he only generates 2 focus, mucking up your plans.

From what we've seen regarding his changes and changes to jacks, I don't think much has changed in mk3. I know I'll probably be taking Bastion Seneschals with Redeemers to clear away infantry chaff in a lot of lists. If Kreoss2 has any spells worth arcing, he may see a Guardian in his lists. I already love the Templar, and its Shieldguard ability would be useful in keeping Kreoss2 alive after he moves up and feats. As would the Vigilant, with its ability to act like cover and grant +4 defense.

Still a little too soon to be making lists, though.

>>47334361
Did you even see the thread last night? Go to the archives and witness the bad name a minority of your fellow cryx players give you.

Also I'm totally serious. This isn't a generalization. Cryx PP forum goers where getting banned left and right when their insider came out. Yet all the ones that where still around where overwhelmingly very reasonable and "yeah we deserve this" in response. That's a pretty large division.

>There are two types of people.
I didn't use that phrase for a damn reason. And at least I'm not assuming all cryx players are like the asshole cryx players. I won't tell you to eat a dick because I don't think your one of those players.

>>47334377
Jus fine

>>47334394
>Can any one tell me what the circle birdies do please?
PP can. But they won't tell us for another month or so.

>>47334361
>cryx is fine in mk3
Oh Cryx is more than fine. They have some really silly strong stuff. I'm not sure whether I'll paint the rest of my Skorne before switching. Cryx might be the best faction to play Warnoun-heavy now.

>>47334383
You always want Strike Force with ossy now more than ever.

Removing Colossals with just one unit on feat turn is brutal.

>>47334419
Ahh, wasnt aware of that, the pp forums are basically cancer.

That and there is a segment of the cryx playerbase whos trying to spread doom and gloom on purpose to get noobs out of the faction, partly to influence the new meta, partly to buy cheap models from people buying into the doom train.

>>47334411
Actually, speaking of the Avatar of Menoth, I am really curious how that one will turn out. Maybe it'll be part of a Battlegroup now? Otherwise it'd need to produce more focus on it's own.
I certainly hope it'll be worth taking, considering the always cool fluff and the great new sculpt.

>>47334430
I'm genuinely glad I made a choice to finish painting my khador before I started on skorne, because I honestly don't see myself playing skorne over my other options anymore. Skorne lost the playstyles I liked (and I never even touched fist, I don't even own a cetrati), while my khador and mercenaries grow stronger by the day.

>>47334430
I mean currently.

>>47334442
The cryx pp forums has for the most part been pretty cool. Got some good guides and are usually a helpful bunch. (no clue about other areas)

>>47334236

Reclaimers are so... wtf. Putting a cloud on themselves or Ashen Veil on their jacks doesn't do much. Future sight is okay.

And Reclaimers are at Def15/Arm13.

I had been running Reclaimers recently, and had come to really appreciate their ability to hand out focus and deal 1 point of damage to anything in reach range.

A heal or something else to shut down enemy soul collection would have been better.

Welp, Trevor and Jay are dumping a huge pile of Salt into the Skorne facebook group. This should be exciting.

>>47334573
Not nearly as exciting, but several people on the Convergence facebook group have decided that Lucant is nerfed into the ground in the new edition, and fuck anyone who disagrees.

>>47334573
Salt in the form of spoilers or in the form of rageful ciomments?

>>47334603
Jay Larsen-
Let's put it this way:

Since I own all the factions, I told myself I would start MKIII with whatever looks strongest for WTC. I gave Skorne a quick once over, shook my head in sorrow, and moved on.

Khador and Cygnar are the factions that most have my attention. Trolls are also being considered, mainly to balance my team.

>>47334464

The Insider said the only changes are that it lost Terror, gained +1 Pow and 1" reach on the shield, and costs 20 points.

So it looks like it might not be as popular, especially since all jacks get at least 1 free focus now.

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It amazes me that Cryx players question why there is a stigma about them

>>47334621
>Since I own all the factions, I told myself I would start MKIII with whatever looks strongest for WTC. I gave Skorne a quick once over, shook my head in sorrow, and moved on.
That sounds like a polite and reasonable assessment of the situation. What about it?

>>47334621
Trevor Christensen-
Trying to let you guys down easy but there is more bad news on the horizon... Just saying.

It's not all gloom or anything but you certainly have not seen the entire breath and scope yet.

>>47334632
So he is complaining because Gaspy2 is just a balanced caster now?

>>47334637
On one hand that sounds fucking horrible.

On the other hand, the chain attack guys like to exaggerate. A lot.

>>47334648
I think he's a bit below average (meaning a lot below Cryx average) now. So I kind of understand why they're upset.

>>47334637
>Trying to let you guys down easy but there is more bad news on the horizon... Just saying.

Anyone who says shit like this without immediately elaborating is just whoring for attention. Even if they are telling the truth, it's not worth rewarding them by listening.

>>47334565
Ashen veil and future sight are both just friendly faction model. Ashen veil on a jack might not be amazing, but on your caster it's pretty useful. Or a paladin.

>>47334623
That's kinda underwhelming. Not bad or anything, I mean the loss of terror and the range of the shield make sense, and the +1pow is nice, but between free focus for everyone and the old downsides make him a lot less desirable.

Daily reminder that the only thing PP deemed worthy of buffs in skorne was ferox + rhadeim combo which are metal models that cost $120, and all of the cheap plastic stuff got worse.

Also, daily reminder that PP released Mobius 3 months before telling cephalyx players they can't play him in mk3

These are all coincidences and imply nothing about PP's monetization plans.

>>47334954
>These are all coincidences and imply nothing about PP's monetization plans.
Never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained with incompetence.

I'm either taking storm Knights spam list to lock and load or my Damiano steelhead theme

I shall ride Mk2 out in glory. Who would be more fun to play against?

>>47334239
It was more like people bitching about cryx players

>>47334282
The cryx forums are the least salty. Its actually impressive

>>47334954
Oh, another reminder: The animantarax was buffed 9 months ago to be the best ranged piece in faction, coincindentally at a time where they had a lot of animantarax backstock as shown by all the sales that most sites had been doing up to that point, and then completely take away its ranged game for mk3.

>>47335030
The Cryx forums saw a massive round of forum bans.

>>47334954
I fear more that this Anon is right >>47335014 than they pointing at raw money.

I think PP have found themself with to many faction. They know their graphic design , but not where to go with game design.

>>47334648
Is he actually bslanced or are you just happy you'll never have to play into him again?

>>47335066
No they didnt

>>47335096
Not that guy but both. It is known that Cryx players only play bullshit casters

>>47335022
Steel heads are sexy as hell imo, so them

What if I want to get into Cryx because I think skeletons are cool? I don't want people to think I'm a scumbag. ;__;

>>47335076
No, really? Who'd thought that after two factions that are slated to *never* get upgrades and a lot of floundering in regards to identity in the other factions?

>>47335121


Aight.

I have a full unit of cav but my store has the new box of steelhead cav on sale for 30% off. They're FA:2 in the new edition anyway so I'm heavily considering it

>>47335136
Gators have literal skeleton penises.

>>47335111
K, 'cause >>47334632 complaints don't really address why hes not good anymore and I get the feeling most of the people here don't get it either (for a myriad of reasons)

I would like someone to explain to me how he is "balanced" (you can leave out the hellbound change, i think that might be an upgrade)

>>47335136
>What if I want to get into Cryx because I think skeletons are cool?

Then play Cryx and don't spam the OP stuff, act like you're hot shit, and cry about it when the OP stuff gets nerfed down to "usable/good" level.

>>47334432

Ah yes, that crucial third die to hit...DEF 7.

They can do dirty things to colossals, but Deadeye is not the reason.

Is there gonna be spoilers today or what?

>>47335204
Hey, one of the gargs is a blistering def 11 or 12

Hey I'm out of the loop, can someone summarize why they think skorne is bad now? And is cygnar good still?

>>47334621
>Khador and Cygnar are the factions that most have my attention

Until their Insiders when he will no doubt start saying they are ruined as well.

>>47335304
Do we know anything about Khador except the battlebox?

>>47335282
Because everything we've seen so far has been nerfed rather harshly (excluding the Void Spirit and the Ferox).

>>47335310
We have spoilers for the starter stuff and we know the Mortar and Conquest will have High Explosive and the MoW Kovnik has Desperate Pace, etc.

>>47335312
Mord I think actually came out better as an anti-hordes caster.

Like, the big shift towards self animi combined with his spell to make them cost one more means hes going to be playing fucking havoc with their Fury management and ability to do shit with beasts.

>>47335312
But in what way exactly? What's been nerfed?

>>47335282
Okay, here's a summary.

Warbeasts:
Due to Enrage no longer giving free charges, our warbeasts are all at an effective -1 Fury.
Titans:
All of our titans lost a lot of resilience. They used to be missed by mat/rat 6 around 30% of the time, now it's more like 10%. The exception to this being the titan sentry, who was always def 11 and relied on his arm 21, so no real change there.

The bronzeback, cannoneer, and sentry lost an additional point of fury in addition to the change to enrage.

Cyclopses:
The raider is only half a mk2 point cheaper, and lost its use as utility. It's now a 9 point beasts whose only purpose is to shoot a rat 5 pow 12 at solos.

The cyclops savage had its armor nerfed to 16, meaning massed pow 10s will kill or cripple it now. Its PC went down to 8, but it was never something skorne took in mk2 and has had nothing to improve its prospects in mk3.

Molik: Deserved what he got

Aradus sentinel: Without access to far strike is pretty much pointless.

Warcasters:
Hexeris 1 lost two of his best spells and had them replaced by two shittier spells.

Makeda1 lost her defining spells. Defender's Ward and Savagery were THE reason to field her, and are gone now.

Makeda2 lost her defining spell, Road to War. She now has Dash, which instead of +2 movement to everything, is +1 speed to warriors and parry. So she lost her huge beast threat extension in exchange for a lesser infantry extension, but infantry as a whole is easier to kill in mk3 so we really don't need it.

Mordikaar: Revive got nerfed into the ground, he lost his upkeep removal. Better against hordes now though.

Xerxis: Lost fury, but if he keeps defender's ward his new battle plan is probably a net gain. He's actually looking decent. Tactical supremacy is kinda nice I guess.

Infantry:
Praetorian swordsmen got more expensive, nihilators got cheaper, why the fuck use swordsmen?

Karax: Bumped up to speed 6, now actually viable at least

>>47335341
Titans across the board, Fury stats on beasts, PGBH and fury management for starters.

>>47335365
Don't forget about the Krea. Shame I painted her already.

>>47335365

Cataphracts: Their 12/15 statline was bad in mk2, but 8 boxes saved them. Now they're 5 boxes and are 11/15, with nothing shown to actually improve them.

PGBH: Condition only takes 1 fury off

Solos:
Willbreaker: Lost ancillary attack, further crippling our ranged game.

Agonizer is now a warbeast, it lost all of its durability and its ability to shut down focus and channeling, in exchange for giving a +2 arm vs melee bubble.

I forgot the krea. Its animus no longer gives arm vs shooting.

Am I forgetting anything?

>>47335365
Wow, thanks for the detailed response

>>47335365
>>47335398
Oh AND Beatback (and by extension mak3) is now dead.

>>47335394
Krea might be a nerf, but at the same time it's still a great ability.

Like, instead of the Krea just buffing the shit out of everything, it's now incredibly good for protecting your fragile shit.

I think both Morgs and the new caster like having a Krea around, for example.

Two Skorne models not currently being bitched about (and spoken of with something resembling approval) are the Titan Sentry and the Aradus Soldier. Neither of them saw much play in mk2.

The Titan Sentry reportedly got a mat buff (to six) and the Aradus Soldier was technically buffed to ignore shields.

So this is the happiness that comes from the distinction... of not being nerfed (and attaining MAT6). It really is. Titan Sentry DEF was in the basement to begin with- getting by on DEF Buffs that no longer improve things enough to actually help isn't a nerf, it's normal. The Aradus Soldier is a heavy that can't be shot to death no matter how much effort the other guy puts into it. Still true.

I think that says more about the spoilers of the rest of the skorne's heavy beast game than the actual spoilers.

>>47335136
That's fine.

Cryx look balanced now. I'm taking this opportunity to make the pirate devil lady army I always wanted.

Doom for the DoomGods

>>47335429
If you think that Krea bubble is good, or even nearly as good as it was in MK2, you don't know what actually kills light infantry.

>>47335410
I forgot the mammoth. Instead of ROF 3 it's ROF d3+1, and its AoEs went down to 3 ifrom 4.

Beat back is now Directly Toward instead of Toward, which is crippling to the bronzeback's animus.

>>47335398
Agonizer is unfair. It also picked up one of the best scernario animi in the game, and it's ability to add Fury to enemy beasts sounds much better with the changes to how Fury works.

>>47335412
Mak3 can give Overtake. Her Molik kill the world shit is actually better, because she picked up Grevious as well.

>>47335452
>Mak3 can give Overtake. Her Molik kill the world shit is actually better, because she picked up Grevious as well.
We've been over this a billion times, so I'll spare both of us the long explanation. Have you actually played Mak3 before?

>>47335430
The aradus doesn't really buf shields.

Remember, its claws are something like P+S 14. They exist only to drag into its P+S 18 mouth. The bite doesn't ignore shields, only the claws do. It's not much of an advantage.

It's just that it didn't get nerfed so is better in comparison.

>>47335448
Then what does kill light infantry?

A lot of the easy ways to set them on fire(Ravagore) are gone.

Morg1's greatest threat was dying to blast damage. So was Morg2's, if anyone played him.

And easy ARM buffs are getting hit across the board, this isn't a Skorne only thing. Deceleration got hit, Tenacity got hit, Spiny Growth got hit, everyone's losing shit.

>>47333978
She's still really good honestly, she's just fair compared to the rest of the game instead of being ball busting

>>47335282
Skorne has always bad. Terrible models, terrible fluff, terrible rules.

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MENOTH CONFIRMED BEST FACTION IN MK3!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x93ROCLcVXE

I don't really get Skorne swordsmen but I want to because the models look pretty damn cool imo. From everything I hear these nihilator fags are way better.

I'm going to wait until I see all the rules for everything MK3 in context though. That will be a good day.

Also hey I am gonna bump this thread I saw on the PP forums! If you go to the Fanart section there's a Tarot Card thread. It's really, really cool.

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>Damiano leaked
>nothing but buffs for days
>reposition 5 instead of reform 3"
>blaster also gives Pow 12 blast damage
>sure foot is model/unit

>>47335466
Is this still about the whole "Makeda can no longer do it herself AND with Molik AND with the Bronzeback?" bullshit?

>>47335503
underrated post

>>47335526
What is so bullshit about that? She could never do it on herself (if you actually read the rules for trainwreck). Now you can only have ONE model that really profits from her feat.

Now Mak3 is a caster that runs out of steam really fast after her feat, so you need to make sure you do silly amounts of damage on that feat turn. I've seen players take off half an enemy army on her feat and still lose the attrition. One heavy going nuts is just not going to do the required amount of damage. I know. I've actually played the caster.

>>47335503

The fire rises, my brother.

Right now, I feel that Cygnar, Ret, and Khador are getting your top 3 spots in Mk3, with all the other warmachine factions being very close. The balance between warmachine is very good.

And so far, I feel the balance between hordes is also very good. All their factions are at a pretty solid level with each other.

But I feel that warmachine is far and away better than hordes this edition.

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Good to see Skorne is still going to be the worst faction in the game. Embrace the pain and suffering brothers, only then will you truly be Skorne.

>>47335365
Are both the cannoneer and sentry only fury 3 now? I thought it was only the cannoner

>>47335716

And yet Skorne is generally tied with trolls for most popular Hordes faction. It's the style.

Like how Khador and Cryx attract so many newbies in Warmachine.

>>47335766
When Soles was asked if all titans lost a point of fury, he said the Gladiator is still fury 4. That implies the sentry took the hit as well.

>>47335777
So Trolls have been my main competitive faction for 5+ years now but whenever I want to have fun with Hordes I busy or my Skorne. They're super fun to play but playing them competitively is a pretty bad idea

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Any word on my sandnigga? He better not be shit tier this time around.

>>47335830
I think he'll get his just desert.

>>47335839
Are you proud of that?

>>47335854
Oh get that sand out of your vagina. It's just a pun.

>>47335874
Sand, hah! I get it :)

How well do you think Mohsaar would be with a minion army? I hate circle's infantry but like their beasts.

>>47335897

Good to see someone appreciating such dry wit.

>>47335927


Terrible, he needs faction chaff to Sands of Fate to

>>47335111
Cryx never had a caster as good as Butcher 3 or Haley 2.

>>47336038

....

ANYWAY.

Jay and Trevor alluding that they've seen more of the upcoming changes pisses me off that there aren't more leaks out there.

>>47336058
Jay is the leaker

>>47335436
The satyxis are satyrs, not devils.

PP reasoning:

>Titans look slow, give them def 10
>Cataphracts look like they have a lot of armor (they're actually arm 15), give them def 11
>Cyclops savages are covered literally head to toe in armor, reduce their armor by 1

>>47335181
The level that was considered "good" in MK2 was expected go down.

Seeing the last few feats eke through have me thinking that they really only took the hammer to the stoopid stuff.

Seeing the Chain Attack guys complain like that makes me want to hurl for some reason. I just can't imagine playing this game purely for mechanics and owning all the factions, not because of the theme and concepts within that faction...but because one has a chance of being way better than any of the others.


Dunno...I'm thinking that's why I am having fun with other games lately. Less worrying about minmaxing against a faction andore just building my shit work.

Cute, logically the translator story and early playtest story on the leaks is bullshit. Theyre a final phase playtest that was probably sent to a large group of playtesters, basically a field test. Its the only explanation for the finished art assets and 2016 v1 tags.

You can bet that virtually all invitational level players were included in this final fueld test phase.

>>47335513
>, now actually viable at least
The new Surefoot is actually very nerfed in a lot of ways. You can no longer take a bunch of heavies and buff all their DEF and make them knockdown immune.

>>47336219
Or a Colossal and just make two tough units an incredible screen for it.

>>47334637
where did you see this?

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>>47336038

>>47335474
You're thinking of the Sentinel's baby 14 claws.
The Soldier's start out at 17.

>>47336219
When playing Damiano in the past I used to put it on Gallant to make it DEF 14 (or a Vanguard to make it 15, 17 against charges) and park tough'd hammer dwarves around it like a mini-deathstar

>>47335513
pls anon, prime conflux

>>47335513
>Steal Mak2's spell Road to War
>It's just Warpath

>>47336247
I just checked, the soldier's claws start out at pow 15. It's 17 with enrage.

>>47336187

Cataphracts go down to a strength 20, Immortals to a strength 18.

The only way these two things can share a faction and both see table time is if said table is covered with damage clouds and everything gets corroded.

>that's totally going to be the case in mk3

>>47336219


That's true but I think that's exactly what they wanted to avoid. Now I can give my whole front halberdier line def 17 against charges while spreading them out as much as possible

>>47336238
facebook

>>47336038
I think you mean Haley3. As far as I'm aware shes the only caster we really don't have an answer to

>>47336335
One is a living model and the other is a construct. Someone like Zaal may have an ability that makes immortals better than cataphracts, where as someone like Makeda may have the opposite.

Good balancing isn't "All models are 100% equal, 100% of the time". It's making army list construction actually matter beyond picking the top tier shit in every faction.

Retribution is a good example of this if you look beyond the MHSF. Do you want sentinels with heavy armour and vengeance or do you want halberds with higher speed and brutal charge? They're both melee units but some people want the speed, while others want the arm, some casters support one better than the other. It becomes a real choice to make not just a default "I'll take the banes" choice.

>>47336335
>Cataphracts go down to a strength 20, Immortals to a strength 18.
What does that even mean? Cataphracts and Immortals are in now way comparable.

>>47336038
Haley2 maybe. But Haley2 was the most bullshit 'caster in the game.

Gaspy2 and the first two versions of his main bitch were far more OP than Butcher3.

>>47336207
>Its the only explanation for the finished art assets and 2016 v1 tags.
Why? Those were already explained in an Insider. And their explanation (it's for future updates) makes a lot more sense.

>>47335204
Or maybe I mean more "more than ever" because we will se a lot more jack on the table....

>>47335777

Skorne is generally underplayed when it comes to hordes, where are you getting this? Legion is by and far the most popular hordes faction

>>47335503
That not how you spell Retribution.

>>47336504
I think he means at the casual level a lot of people play skorne.

No one plays it at the competitive level.

Get ready for HAZARDMACHINE!

>>47335830
This guy always felt a bit underwhelming.

He's meant to be an Omnipotent, right? He's not a back warlock, but he doesn't feel powerful.

Obviously, the game needs to be balanced. Harby can't be as OP as she is in the fluff, but you get a sense of how big a deal she is from how she works on the table. Same with Rahn. You can't have him casually sweeping aside armies, but there's a real feeling of raw power in the way he plays, how he can just change the entire layout of a battle with a few points of focus.

I donno. I never would have guessed Mohsar was supposed to be such hot shit if I'd never read his fluff entry.

>>47336408
Not even. The popular opinion was that Butcher 3 can destroy your army by himself, no Cryx caster was ever capable of that.

>>47336651
was meant for >>47336468

>>47336651
The popular opinion was wrong, then.

>>47336651
Cryx casters aren't supposed to destroy an entire army on their own, that's not how Cryx plays.

>>47336651
Sure. Although, more limited in ability, Terminus could himself put down a beating on the opposing clumped up army.

Also its probably not fair to compare Butcher3 and Gaspy2,they had very different roles as far as casters go

>>47334011
Nothing. She's perfectly playable, but average in everything.

>>47334011
battlebox casters aren't supposed to be special

>>47336823
Theres a your mom joke here somewhere.

>>47334632
He's shit now. The feat is shit and everything else got needlessly nerfed.

Also, the strongest caster was pSkarre.
>>47335136
People just can't take a loss really.

>>47336651
Different kind of powerful.

Butcher3 is personally very awesome. But he still wasn't as broken as Gaspy2, any of the Dennys, Haley2, etc. They didn't kill everything themselves, they just made everything your opponent did ineffectual as fuck.

>>47334239
Why should we be bitching, I'm way out of the loop other than I know MkIII is apparently gonna be a thing.

>>47334194
How the fuck does a human being fit into that armour? What kind of insane proportions does Kreoss have?

>>47336997
Read these things
>>47335365
>>47335398
>>47335451

>>47336997
If you're Cryx? You shouldn't be, your stuff is still pretty great. Babbies who were reliant on ludicrously OP tech are crying because they have to actually git gud now. Even your new battlebox 'caster is easily the best of the bunch.

If you're Skorne? You're allowed to whine a bit, you've gotten a lot of nerfing. I still want to see the bigger picture before I declare shit unsalvageable, but the current portents seem grim.

>>47337029
Well. Here's hoping Convergence is still fun...

>>47337017
>tfw you realize those are actually choir boys

Kreoss was teaching them his "pop and drop" technique

>>47337085
Convergence is looking buffed in some areas and nerfed in others. Almost every faction has been nerfed a bit, it seems like the game is sorta being leveled out at somewhere just above mkii Khador level, with Ret and Khador getting buffs while everyone else is either nerfed softly or nerfed a lot.

>>47337085
They're changing the least, and despite the facebook bitching by a couple people, their stuff is looking as good as ever.

New Aurora might be insanely fun.

>>47337158
>New Aurora might be insanely fun.
Oh. If Perforators become good that might push her even more.

>>47336977

And she got nerfed as well. There simply cannot be sympathy for Cryx players who apparently live in a different world and play a different game when it comes to model balance.

And yes, people can't take a loss. That's the sort of arrogant bullshit that generates the scumbag stigma about Cryx players in the first place

>>47337085


Convergence has mainly only been nerfed by General recursion changes and purification being gone on Lucant (he gained the ability to give his vectors dispel tho)

Convergence are buffed because of the removal of the limit on induction transfers and the general lack of nerfs that they got. Reciprocators are still 8 boxes, etc

>>47337085
On the bright side, the titan sentry is definitely the winner.

Even though it dropped to fury 3, it's up to mat 6 now. Titans going down to def 10 doesn't matter to a model that relies on being 19 and a +2 shield. Titan sentry is a solid frontline heavy now.

>>47337185
The devs are claiming they got way better, but I'm not really buying it.

Yea, Armor Piercing affects small base models now, but that doesn't fix their base problems.

>>47337060

I don't really get the whining from my fellow Skorne players. I mean anyone who has actually been playing the faction should just find this business as usual. If you ever had hope, you were never an actualy Skorne player in the first place.

>>47337205
Don't forget that both the Prime Axiom and the TEP got their targeting removal dropped as well, so their guns are far more useful.

And both guns were already plenty good.

>>47337215


I'm expecting a pow buff

>>47337215
Yeah it will take more than that. But Assault+Aerogenesis might be a thing if it comes to that.

>>47337227
We got spoiled by the release of the raider, sentinel, and animantarax errata into thinking that we were actually a good ranged faction.

Now all hope is lost.

>>47337238
They've said they went unchanged, and that the AP change was enough for them.

They've got a better knockdown assassination against some casters, but other than that I have no idea what they're better at.

>>47337227
>Anyone who has actually been playing the faction should just find this business as usual
That's the problem.

>If you ever had hope, you were never an actualy Skorne player in the first place.
I guess you're right. So Skorne will be my fluff and painting faction while Cygnar and Cryx will be my winning factions.

>>47337240
The animantarax changes confuse the fuck out of me.

Like, they didn't just nerf it, they radically changed how it plays. There's got to be something else to it.

>>47337200
>And she got nerfed as well. There simply cannot be sympathy for Cryx players who apparently live in a different world and play a different game when it comes to model balance.
Cryx wasn't dominant in the tournament scene for a reason. Many things didn't need heavy nerfs at all.
>And yes, people can't take a loss. That's the sort of arrogant bullshit that generates the scumbag stigma about Cryx players in the first place
It's more likely people being sore losers.

>>47337261

Oh I never meant it as that it's alright. It's complete shit that they apparently have no fucking clue what they want out of the faction, and also seem to think that shit is far better than it actually is. I.E Will Schick thinking MK2 eZaal is just fucking incredible. I mean it's one thing to ask to be OP, it's another to ask to not have to work twice as hard to get the same results as other people.

>>47337277
Cryx is the most played faction in the game at a competitive level

>>47337287
To be fair to that whole bullshit, eZaal was very much likely a Mk3 caster they hastily put Mk2 rules on. Mk3 stands to fix 90% of his issues.

>>47337277
>Cryx wasn't dominant in the tournament scene for >a reason. Many things didn't need heavy nerfs at >all.

Yeah, because everybody had an anti-cryx list. There's a reason that term exists, but you've never heard of an anti-khador list.

>>47337276
More importantly, they undid the buff it got in the errata. That is just weird.

>>47337306
>>47337311
Which makes sense of it, right?
And Cryx had to always have an anti cygnar list which hardly makes them op.

File: Objective.jpg (465KB, 569x2061px) Image search: [Google]

465KB, 569x2061px

>>47334282

To be fair, most Cryx posting on the official forums was like "well, it was expected". Nothing thus far, has compared to the whine of Skorne, and I have red through EVERY official forum post regarding each team every insider.

As a wise man mentioned on the forum regarding the heads up warning to all whiners not contributing to the thread "Guess were lucky they didn't post this during the Skorne insider, or we wouldn't had made it past page 3!", Soon after, his post was deleted, how cash is that!

So apart from the two butt buddies yesterday on /tg/, who simply refused to accept the reality of the situation, and who in all honesty thought the rest of Warmahordes should feel sorry for the poor Cryx players out there, they most definitely fall in the category nr 1.
But I feel you missed the second part, there are actually good, hell even great players out there who happens to play cryx. Not because they like the fluffy theme lists, not because they only play friendly games and whatnot, but because they know the fucking game mechanics down to the core. These players deserves the title "good player" because they are, its that simple. And many of those players where the once on the official forums going "well, guess we just need to adapt to mk3, no biggie".

>>47337259


Well against most casters they'll be dice +0 or +1 with their shots, but yeah I agree I don't even own them.

>>47337307
>Mk3 stands to fix 90% of his issues.
Yeah, a new spell list would fix him.

>>47337277

It's amazing that Cryx would have to be literally 1st 2nd 3rd in every single tournament ever for any of the player base to even budge that there was a problem. The entire fucking game barring cygnar has to tech against them. They show up in top 5 continually. It's not that they are OP unbeatable, but they had to be brought down. Even PP fucking stated they messed up with Banes, and yet for years the playerbase defended them that they were designed alright.

>>47337319
That's what's so weird about it. They didn't just go "Nope, nerfing it again"

They've changed the entire way it's supposed to operate.

I mean, it's a POW18 model that can get to pretty damn high SPD. Maybe there's something in the new Huge base rules that will make sense of it, because right now it's not just a plain nerf, it's a weird shift.

>>47337335

Nah, Legion takes the cake. They cried so much they created another thread where they got another insiders worth info because of it.

>>47337337
They are technically way better against multi wound infantry now, but the changes we've seen seem to suggest that medium base shit isn't going to get played.

And know whos, the UA may do something incredible for them.

>>47337017
Kreoss is Khadoran, he's a really really big guy. Not quite Butcher big, but somewhat close.
Also space marine logic for how he fits in the armor

I still find it likely that the animantarax errata buff was because of their backstock of models.

It happened about the same time places like minimarket were selling them at half off because no one wanted the fucking things.

Now that the buying frenzy is over and people started doing double-animantarax lists that time is over.

>>47337394
The animantarax change wasn't exactly a buff, it was just a revision to it's old playtest rules they thought were too good.

But again, it's in a really fucking weird spot. Like, it's not just getting nerfed back down to it's base Mk2 rules, it's changing entirely. I'm most willing to believe it might end up workable as a model, just because how drastically it's role seems to be changing.

>>47337380


Bastions and cinerators will still see play and MoW might be playable.

>>47337335

Cryx was fine up until about 2 days ago, when the leaked cards happened and they lost their shit

>>47337394
>I still find it likely that the animantarax errata buff was because of their backstock of models.
The model was never played. It was also never bought. Whether PP errata'd it for the former or latter reason makes no difference.

>>47337311
Well no, you wouldn't call it that. However 'anti-cryx' is really just a colloquialism for infantry hate, so you're anti-cryx list is generally your anti-khador list ect.

Also you're doing a bit of a disservice to list building as a whole because other things need to be taken into consideration like armor cracking, butcher3 (so spell hate), haley3,teching against shooting and so on

I think the big problem with the Skorne changes is just this incredible disparity between the devs and the players.

I mean, you've got Soles talking about how he made it a personal mission to make pHexxy better, and then the sum of the changes is "Two spells for two worse spells.".

Like, either there's some huge change in the way Skorne plays that they've failed to talk about, or the devs are fucking delusional.

>>47337261

Personally think most Skorne players are leaned towards finding the negative sides on just about everything.
Example can be found in just about any recent post regarding the faction, and you have a whole community searching for bad things about it. The positive posts are rare apart and more than often gets drowned in a sea of whining.

Get it, mk3 is here to make every faction just about as bland as it can, with a touch of fluff to it. But having watched just about every rumor, and every leaked card so far, this edition actually seems quite enjoyable for all teams.
The whole game has been nerfed down to a mid-tone, the only problem is Skorne think they are the only one getting the shaft.

>>47337435
What did they do to it?

>>47337439
MoW are actually one of the most protected units against armor piercing unless the way it applies has changed.

Shield Wall makes them ARM13 against the AP shots, and they're still 8 wounds.

>>47337469
We find the negative sides because they haven't posted any fucking positives.

Sentry is mat 6, ferox is good, we got a self only spiny growth on a few beasts, void spirits are legit with one caster

What the fuck else is there? Maybe if it wasn't for the bad to good having a 10:1 ratio, the negative to positive posts wouldn't similarly be 10:1.

>>47337354
I completely agree, they needed to be nerfed.
p Skarre was so broken I started playing eSkarre, who of course got changed so much I can't play the old list as something meaningful, which is where my problem with it comes.
The only nerfs that made no sense are the ones to eGaspy and loss of defensive tech for Thrall Warriors.

>>47337469
>you have a whole community searching for bad things about it
Well, name a few good things.

I've been very enthusiastic about the MK3 announcement. The Skorne insider killed that enthusiasm in an instant.

>>47337335
>Nothing thus far, has compared to the whine of Skorne, and I have red through EVERY official forum post regarding each team every insider.

Are you certain? Skorne in the general forums and Skorne in the faction community forums are two pretty different things. A lot of people don't even both check the general; when something pressing happens over there threads get piped in by the few people that overlap the two.

>>47337478
It now gets +1SPD for every rage token it has on it, is a Cav model(so boosted charge attacks) and comes with Reposition, I think 3 or 5".

It lost it's ability to boost ranged attacks with it's rage tokens though, which is a huge deal.

So like, it got nerfed, but it got changed a whole lot.

>>47337508
eGaspy needed some nerfs. A caster shouldn't have two very good defensive tech spells combined with the ability to come out on attrition even if he's losing it hard.

>>47337519
It also lost its str bonus with rage tokens, so it's P+S 16 with its tail.

>>47337541
I though I heard it picked up +2STR though.

>>47337469
I think there's also an entitlement angel. Skorne is arguably the worst 'real' faction in the game. With the transition to mkiii I feel that they expect to get a huge buff, maybe to even become OP, but its not looking like that at all.

I suspect that there wouldn't be a huge disparity in power between the factions in the end, but, we only have a small picture now. I'm sure we will get a better view in July or August when the dust settles.

>>47337377

Nope, checked Legion. Most of it was about the Spd5 on heavies. But that was counter-argument by its own followers as pretty reasonable.
Skorne on the other hand, raided several other insiders, receiving many extra answers on questions that had already been explained, just because they couldn't let stuff go.
Hands down, the price for most bitchy audience goes to Skorne if there ever was a competition about it, and anyone following the official forums knows this is the truth (though I wont deny all teams had their time to shine on the subject).

>>47337446

As far as /tg/ goes, it was only two idiots simultaneously kissing each others asses last night. Trying to convince people that Cryx jacks didn't stand up to the standards. Only to be explained on how to actually play Cryx in the first place (hell, one of them was even angry he would have to use "curse" and other tricks to do more damage to a Khador jack, and asked if it was to much to ask that a 10p slayer one-rounded it! Get a load of those guys, shit was hilarious!).

>>47337341

Nah, it's being able to use both his spell list and his feat in the same game.

>I shit you not on that
>If you can use his feat, you cast one spell, once, all game
>If you use his spell list, his feat effects one model
>Again, I SHIT YOU NOT TG

>>47337563
I don't know if they expected a huge buff, but they certainly didn't expect to lose all the options they'd gained in the last year or so.

>>47337331
>Anti Cygnar list
You mean just a regular Cryx most right? You're full of shit

>>47337553
"That model went through some signifigant changes. Among them it is now a cavalry model, which really felt like the missing piece. Cantankerous now says, "When this model is damaged by an attack it gains one rage token. This model can have up to three rage tokens at any time. This model gains +1 SPD for each rage token currently on it. During its activation, this model can spend rage tokens to make additional melee attacks or to boost melee attack or melee damage rolls. It can make one additional attack or boost one roll for each rage token spent."

Also, it can be argeted with Medicate special actions as if it were a warbeast. "

Unless there was another post later saying that, I don't think so.

>>47337491


Shock troopers sure, but not the other two

>>47337530
Some nerfs for sure, but this seems way too much. Especially the d6 part of it. Why not just put it to 6 or 8?
Feat that brings 4 models for a turn is absolutely pathetic.

>>47337575
Faction with the most nerfs complains the most, a novel concept.

Skorne started off weaker than cryx and legion and saw as many or more nerfs than they did with the spoilers so far.

>>47337575
Legion was getting answers in other people's threads...are you just mixing up the two? You are describing legion, again 2 while threads dedicated to them on top of other poeples...

>>47337667
He's talking about one skorne guy that asked questions about cataphracts in the cyriss thread, and that's about it.

>>47337575
>skorne is shit
>still gets nerfed
If I was a Skorne player I'd be salty as well.

Has there been much word on the motherland outside of the BB caster? I'm pretty excited to see whatever nerfs and buffs it takes to make the army fun to play again.

Can't wait to see what they do with glorious kossite woodsmen. Universally reviled, I still had a ton of fun with them, hope the angry woodland hillbillies keep their shinanigans somewhat. Maybe my idea for a hills have eyes list (Old Witch, Manhunters, Kossites, etc.) will be realistic in mk3

>>47337516

Alright, I recently checked the new starter boxes, and I find them in line with every other box. See, everything in mk3 will be bland and every option viable. You whine like little girls when you hear your meat-mountain will be sacked to 5 boxes a piece? Well, my HI got the same treatment, but Ill still use them, why? Because I know they now fill a combat role, instead of many. I know they are worse than in mk2, but at the same time I have the knowledge that my opponents troops has had the same treatment!

>>47337563

This is absolutely true. If you are treated as the shitty team through the whole of a full edition, no wonder your tears starts to roll down the cheeks when an insider mentioning nerfs comes along! But having the worst team doesn't necessarily makes a player an imbecile does it? They have to know that every team is now being brought down to a mid-tone level of gameplay, right? That there will be synergy, but within limits so to speak.

On a side note, also note that while the rest of Hordes have had their precious eyes blindfolded to the truth, that FURY is indeed a way better stat than FOCUS, this will take hard on the weak minded. Because all beasts will be nerfed, regarding animus, fury and everything in between. Now we are almost at a level to compare Jacks vs Beasts... close, but not yet there.

>>47337751
Skorne was my third army, after Khador and Mercs.

I am as excited as I could be for khador in mk3. And will probably sell my skorne off if errata doesn't arrive in the coming years. Focus is better than fury now. In general, warmachine is now better than hordes. The other factions are not being brought down to skorne's level in any way, skorne is getting hit harder by nerfs than most factions that were ranked above it.

>>47337744


Juggernaut chassis are all up to Mat 7

>>47337783
I don't know if I'd say Focus is better than Fury.

The change to overboosting has some huge, huge implications in both list design and on the table strategy for a whole number of casters.

>>47337751

So does hordes get Warmachine level feats/spell lists to make up for the Focus = Fury thing? or we just gonna ignore that one

Warmachine used to have better infantry and casters, but beasts were better than jacks.

Now warmachine still has better infantry and casters, but jacks are at least as good as beasts.

>>47337792

Oh...that's nice. I wonder if beast will still have his thresher attack. Also hope the Jug will get a 1" melee range. That's a pretty big axe for it to only reach .5"

Also hope Draigo/Zerkers get even a smidge of a buff. More units I loved to play that performed less that well most of the time, lol.

>>47337838
All heavies have 1", unless they have reach

>>47337838
All heavies now have at least 1 inch melee range, for everyone.

>>47337819
Some of the new feats have been pretty good.

The BB Skorne casters feat is arguably the best defensive feat in the game, and the Giant gun Troll's new fight outright ignores ranged damage for a round.

>>47337845
>>47337847

Righteous.

This also make that one legion warbeast make more sense. The one jumping or something with a pretty big sword.

Idk, all the vitriol has kind of passed me over for mk3, I'm just ready to play with different stuff. Wouldn't even care if my entire army got hit with a nerf.

Then again I'm a bretonnian kind of player soooo

>Titans dropped to def 10 because elephants look slow
>Ironclad still def 12

>>47337530
Lich2 is my favorite caster, the caster I have the most play time with in a competitive setting and my favorite lore character, so I feel like I have a solid understanding of how he functions and what makes him a great caster.

The most relevant of his personal abilities are mobility(17" without OoA movement), safety and feat. Things that enable his success are Curse from BLT and the Helldiver's maneuverability. Excarnate is very powerful, but requires almost 6 focus to pull off and is less relevant in higher level play.

With just the basic changes to MKIII we see the movement removed from curse, burrow is changed, you cant preform actions after recursion and you can no longer charge friendly models. That specifically reduces his threat by 6". I felt these were enough to see a reduction in play due to over all loss of efficiency of feat delivery and the need to play BLT and Gaspy further forward (I'm very conservative with my key pieces).

Moving to his new incarnation we see his feat is unreliable and he has a less reliable way to keep his army of slow, low defense infantry alive. There could be an argument made for the changes to caustic mists, but the changes to the feat are the most egregious. To me it just seems cynical.

Isn't the Antamaraxx or whateverthefuck basically a cav battle engine psuedo-warbeast now? Like, it doesn't have animi or transfers but apparently you can whip it and shit.

It sounds really weird, but sort of cool.

>>47337963
>steam engines
>slow
How does it feel being an americlap?

>>47337982

More importantly- vaguely useful.

It's straight tech to at least one feat you can name, now. A warbeast that isn't actually running on fury.

>>47338027
You're right, all things with steam engines should be def 12. Can I have my def 12 khador jacks now?

>>47337969
I'd also like to point out that the feat is *statistically* unreliable because there is aprox a 17% chance to get any single dice result.

Sure over a wide spectrum of games it would add up to 7. But in any single game that is not true

>>47337969
>>47337969
>WAAAAH I CAN'T AUTOWIN GAMES BY FACEROLLING EVERYTHING WITH 10 BANES CHARGING THAT THE OPPONENT CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT

Gaspy2 was shit tier to play against. Every change made so far seems to be in the interest of making the game fun for everyone and removing the bullshit that everyone hated from Mk2 like Haley2 controlling your opponents turn and Gaspy2's Bane'n'bile rape train.

Stop acting like a faggot and just be glad that people won't secretly think that you're a power gaming dickpirate anymore.

>>47338151
You're the one being a giant faggot. You're not even facilitating a conversation

>>47337783

This >>47337799
FURY is still leagues better than FOCUS.
When I get a Warjack with 3-4 initials, combo-strikes and whatnot, and a self spell that my Warcaster can enjoy as well, then Ill agree with you!

Now we have tipped the scale just a bit, we have toned down some of your FURY 5 beasts (which is absolutely insane when you think about them having fucking 3-4 initials and all!), and made Threshhold so that its actually a risk running your beasts at red. Your expanded "spell-library" of animus has also been reduced to a lot of "self", but still your Warlock and the chosen beast can enjoy it.
And after this Hordes players screams like little girls, even though your still miles ahead of the FOCUS stat.

>>47337819

No, everything is in balance now if you didn't catch up to the mk3 design. Besides, they where still at the same level of feats and spells, you just had a better stat to work with.

Are they going to be selling the faction jerseys at L&L this year?

>>47338315
What are you, autistic? Our shit had and has worse stats. And no body wants to have to leach their fury stat every turn, warlocks are all squishy as fuck. If I bring 4 beasts now, I have to camp 1-3 depending on the 'lock if I want them all to run.

>>47338315
I played warmachine before I played hordes. Powerup, and power booster being able to be used on jacks that already have focus on them, is going to narrow the distance much further than you think. I'm likely done playing hordes in mk3.

>>47338179
Theres no conversation. Gaspy2 was a shitty caster everyone hated seeing across the table.

He's less rediculous now without being shitty, and thats a good thing

>>47338179

Gaspy wasn't bad to play against. He was always a good match. Skarre1 with 50+ infantry was unfun.

Pre-nerf Bradigus was unfun.

Gaspy2 was annoying at worst (when he could bring back solos).

>>47338315

No...no they weren't, you're insane if you think they were. That was literally the balancing factor of the two, anybody worth a damn at the game knows that. It's why teh Focus/Fuy argument causes groans more often than not, because it's a new or terrible player argument.>>47338315

>>47338377

Nope, just spelling out the obvious, FURY was a much better stat than FOCUS any day of the week. Now its more in line with Warmachine, but still a nod better in my own opinion (I play both by the way).

>>47338378

Yes, the new powerup is something that really lifts the term Warmachine in to the game don't you think? Before, you took what you had to, and nothing more. Thats how bad Jacks where, lets be honest (well, most of them anyway)!
Now its actually playable, still not as good as fury in my opinion, but still good.

>>47338393

Oh, I guess thats why you didn't see all those Jack list back in mk2. Get real if you try to convince anyone with that bull shit you obvious "only horde player".

>>47338466
I think the new focus maybe more powerful than fury. It scales so much better that it could very easily become broken given the right casters. Think Enemo charger spam but now he keeps his full focus amount and gets half that shit for free.

>thursday
>no insider

wat

>>47338393

Sorry for the double, but I just had to ad this. Its been reckoned by Privateer Press, the actual game designer, and play tester for years that FURY was indeed better than FOCUS. It was in one of the first insider and forum threads, this is why they decided to nerf the FURY and ad to the FOCUS, to get some form of balance.

Now, if you feel the need to discuss the matter that this is indeed not right, I suggest you take it up with the big boys that mad the FUCKING GAME!

>>47338382
Except hes less rediculous (wich is good) but now hes shitty (wich is bad).

I've just never been a fan of when game devs nuke something that was good, not just this but in all kinds of games. Having things get toned down is totally acceptable (skarre1's feat is much more balanced now), but making something unplayable kind of sucks

I'm not saying he doesnt deserve to get any nerfs, he does. The changes to the feat, in addition to the indirect nerfs, are just too much

>>47338512
Punishment for the spoilers.

>>47338522
He does look...kinda bad.

But I'd give it til we see all of the cards before we decide that. Keep in mind his feat may be one of the only ways to place models on the table and have them take a move and combat action that same turn. It's weaker because you get 4 models, but it's stronger because not as many sources of instant recursion.

At least that's what I think the design is balanced against.

>>47338561
They still go away at the end of your turn. I'm curious to see if we get any good medium base infantry in future releases, because you can now bring back medium base grunts.

>>47337575
It's annoying that people complain about Cryx using their strongest casters, meaning those have meaningful debuffs, when they absolutely need to use them to make the pillow-fisted Slayers even mildly usable.

>>47338466

What? How are you this stupid? No shit Fury allowed for more beasts, and Focus didn't allow for More jacks, which is why Warcasters had better stats/feats and spell lists, Jacks had better stats (though that did not fix focus)....Get the fuck out of here with your casual mindset bullshit and learn the game before you try and have any semblance of a discussion on balance.

>>47338627
It's annoying that people complain that Slayers are pillow-fisted when some factions (trolls) have the exact same P+S with the same range on their heavy. But oh no, when Cryx uses a jack it has to be P+S 20 or you're walking. Fucking dunk your head you whiny cunt.

>>47338627
But that's never been the issue. It's free immediate attacks that you can generate from dead models. His feat was never about position or control (except insofar as he could assassinate with it in the earliest versions) .

Anyway, bloodgorgers own and I could see using the feat on them in some situations. And on bane warriors in others. I think there will be new ways to use it overall and thats exciting.

Im so fucking bored of bring back 4-5 knights to kill a colossal or someshit...its not interesting after awhile.

>>47337576
>his spell list
Spells such as what? Mage Sight? Because so far the only thing he's spending his fury on is spamming nukes or fueling Transference.

>>47338627

Yeah it's really rough being a Cryx player. I guess that argument for "Our jacks suck so we need debuffs" is at least better than "Our infantry sucks, we need debuffs" since PiP came out and stated you're wrong on that end.

>>47338651

I always wondered why didn't they go with the Jacks are tougher/beasts are faster approach. A werewolf is scary because it's fast as all hell and can tear you apart if it gets close enough. A steel golem is scary because it's fuck all hard to hurt the thing, and if it hits you, it's going to hurt, a lot.

Just sort of making noise, so ignore at your leisure.

>>47338614

You already could. People just never did because the only medium-based options were Bloodgorgers (who couldn't use Gang as solos) and Black Ogrun (who were just bad). If you can keep Gerlak alive, the changes to Bloodgorgers mean they actually might make pretty amazing feat targets.

>>47338559
Fuckin cucks!

Who is looking the best for jacks? I need my robos.

>>47338754
Durgen Madhammer

>>47338673
Slayers would be good too if they got 4-5 free focus each turn.

>>47338673
Well the troll beast runs itself and has buffing options outside of their caster (stone, animi...other? I dont play trolls) that makes them hit hard and fast

The issue with Cryx jacks aka the problem in general is that you have to fuel them when its usually more efficient to cast spells or safer to camp. I could spend 6 focus to fill a heavy and cast parasite, or I can cast para, camp at arm 20 and have something else take care of the thing

>>47338811
Whats bad about them m8? and how does the focus help?

>>47338559
It's already up. It's just still locked.

>>47338754
Individually best would probably be Coc. Real factions would be Ret or cygnar if your looking for more elite jacks or khador for more sturdy.
Menoth looks like it will still be running jacks, but their focus seems to be on point efficiency.

>>47338713
Medium base was the second errata

And maybe? They are only mat6 and lich has no mat fixer

>>47338694
Cryx was always an infantry faction, now we're forced to use jacks because of the increased amount of jack points. Cryx jacks are still bad though, so those debuffs are gonna be even more important than before. Some people just have a chip on their shoulder about Cryx because they are bad players who read on the internet that Cryx is OP and concluded that that must be why they lose all the time.

>>47338811
Slayers are also cheaper, have a third initial, and though it may shock you, Fury isn't free. Trolls don't have condition.

>>47338827
Theoretically that is what Power Up is looking to fix. I can't say it'll work or not, but giving a free focus and changing the incentive to camp 5+ is a step in the right direction as well as changing a lot of animi on the Hordes side. All I'm saying is that any other WM faction would kill to have the Slayer and Cryx, who can arguably support it extremely well (but doesn't because lolbanes), whines about it.

I just ordered the other 4 bog trogs to make my unit up to 10. What else should I buy for Minions? I'm thinking of running an all skorne minions list until I get around to picking up some gaters.

>>47338836
They can't take a hit, a single boosted hand cannon shot will take out an arm and jacks don't have the luxury of being healed from 14 inches away. Focus would obviously help with boosting damage and buying additional attacks.

>>47338886
>fury isn't free

Yes it is, you can leech 4-5 fury just fine. If you run your trolls hot each turn, you can just let them frenzy, they're just gonna hit the opponent anyway. Also Slayer's 3rd initial is only PS12, only good for fighting infantry.

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One really interesting thing is looking at the Slayer VS the Legion equivalent- the Neraph. The Slayer is at the bottom end of average for heavy warjacks but the Neraph appears to be even lower. I was surprised when I saw P+S 15 on a heavy warbeast in legion of everblight- at least the angelius has (had?) armor piercing on the tail. As a Cryx player I am fine with the Slayer at P+S 16 because we have access to dark shroud in the form of Bane Warriors so any model we have can hit at an effective P+S +2. I am overall okay with the nerfs to Crys- I never really played a lot of the OP-tier stuff. I am somewhat disappointed in the nerf to the pow of mechanithralls- I don't mind nerfing how they are resurrected but I will miss being able to down heavies with them.

I am curious what Legion is getting in terms of power boosts to their warbeasts if anything. IIRC before they had the black frost shard as a way to make some of their weaker beasts strong and to make their strong beasts nuts.

Regardless, the Neraph seems solid- I wouldn't mind trading a point of pow and armor for sprint, +1 speed, and beat back.

any other legion players care to compare?

>>47338673
6 focus to do something is extremely inefficient.
Trolls and all hordes could have 20 or something on the field, as opposed to 8-9 with support.
>>47338883
I think 2 more expensive jacks will see play more then they used to.
The eSkarre lists I used to run are completely fucked up right now, but two leviathans on her should run like butter.

Actually looking to get back into way machine since Ret is getting a nice boost bought some electromancers and our latest caster today.

Did PP's site just crash?

>>47336219

The fun trick was to put SF on Snapjaw and then have it submerge. Unless you had melee (Dispell) or AoE (Purification and lesser forms) you had a bubble of awesome that Eiryss/Hex Blast/etc could do nothing about.

>>47338883

Yes, that's what it is. Clearly everyone is wrong, and Cryx is as popular as they are, especially with high level players because Hey man, they look cool! That statement is arrogant as fuck, and makes Cryx apologists look even worse. Was Cryx OP? no, but fuck off if you don't think they were extremely high on the power curve. I'm sorry your game warping faction needs to change, here's a cookie.

What are you guys working on atm?

I'm trying to paint some mercs up but just cant bring myself to do any real progress with all the uncertainties about mk3..
I've got 2 mules for ashlyn on my desk and don't kow if they will still be worth it..

>>47339005
I bought the Vyre Jack and Ossy. I'm looking forward to fielding the sentinel commander solo and just whacking people with a weapon master and his buddy the griffon. 2 man team of face wrecking.

Guys someone have the typhoon leaked card ?

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>>47339046
Since cephalyx dominators are going to FA-2 I figured I'd build and paint my second one. It was a bit frustrating to be only able to take a second mercenary unit in a narrow tier list.

>>47338954
>Yes it is, you can leech 4-5 fury just fine. If you run your trolls hot each turn, you can just let them frenzy, they're just gonna hit the opponent anyway.

3-4. And uh, no. Not any more. They're going to be hitting their groupmates or screeners now, unless they are out on their own, in which case they're set to get killed. Fury isn't free; fury on table is a hazardous byproduct that you need to manage correctly or get ruined by. You didn't see it happening because people learned that one quick; it was the hordes equivilent of stop being a newb and camping some focus already.

>different anon

>>47339010
Yes

>>47339010
Yup. Someone got impatient for today's insider and decided to crash the site or maybe it was someone venting after their forum ban.

>>47338960
Don't forget the stats and arms falling off. That's always been the problem, with say Seether, who if he had better stats would have been more widely used.

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>>47339046
This guy.

>>47339046
I'm going to try and do a horror from the deep conversion for Convergence, hopefully by the end of the week I'll have gotten a Lucant kit to get started.

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>>47339104
In my playgroup I've actually seen the Seether get a large amount of play- the people I spoke to said that they liked how it relieved the focus-drain from the caster. Personally I played seethers because I played Mortenebra as one of my casters. The arms on crys jacks ARE rather fragile- which can definitely be frustrating.

what's your take on the new seether-chassis jack: The Inflictor?

>>47339089
You don't need to run them hot if they aren't already in the melee, and it they are then they will just attack the opponent.

>>47335398
>PGBH: Condition only takes 1 fury off
While skorne has been nerfed pretty hard, I would like to point out that condition can now effect a beast multiple times. Not as good as it once was it's not quite as bad as just being down to removing only a single fury. Still sucks over all.

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Ok, I'm not sure what faction to work on. I normally play Menoth. I have a few Cephalyx and I found a buccaneer in my box of misc minis.

Should I do mercs? I have a nice conversion idea for this plastic Stryker I have and mercs can be pretty cool. I don't like colossals though, not sure if that's a dealbreaker

Should I do Ceph? I don't paint flesh all that well, but the thought of hordes of creepy drudges is cool.

Inb4 both, I'm already getting rid of some Ret I have, I'm trying to stick to just one thing.

>>47339182
It hurts Legion way more than it does Skorne, yea.

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>>47333887
am I missing something or did Ethags just not change at all?

Those bone spikes on the Seether look retarded.

>>47339196
Whine to someone who cares, you Forsaken fuckers.

>>47339173
Frenzy rules did change to make that not quite as easy as it was before.

They'll go after the closest model no matter what, instead of enemy models first.

>>47338886
They would. My issues with it are that it has a terrible grid and I just cant support it

It looks great on paper, but its made out of balsa wood and paper maché, they are difficult to deliver.

Im tepidly excited for the ILO, I just wish they looked better modelwise. Plus the changes to focus do encourage spending it

>>47339165
Simply having easy access to Shield Guard and Reach means a lot, as well as the bonus armor. It's great for the price, even if its offensive ability is lackluster. 8 points was exactly what I'd have payed for my pSkarre as babysitting jack and 3rd wave attack.

>>47339202
He got Tough, but otherwise not really.

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>>47339188
If you don't paint flesh all that well you COULD take Cephalyx as an opportunity to improve your skills. Plus I took drudges as an opportunity to experiment with a bunch of different skin tones. My drudge units have a mix from dark to pale because it's much more interesting to paint that way.

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>>47339234
son of a btich

why does he have to be shit.

>>47339234
Acid on that dragon blood spell iirc?

>>47339247
Oh, and Dragon's Blood gives Cont. Corrosion instead of inverse Tough

>>47339246
That's true.

The other thing though is cleaning up those restic drudges was a fucking pain in the ass. They're decent looking models, but those mold lines.

>>47339269
Witch Coven please?

>>47339269
I can't believe PP nerfed Cryx's 2nd worst caster.

>>47339046
Picked up a Sacral Vault, Posse, Totem Hunter, and a Witch Doc Croc. Should keep me busy for a while.

>Venethrax, the Lich Lord that duels dragons, still doesn't have weaponmaster.

craaaaaaaawling in my skiiiiiiiiin can't wake up

>>47339202
>>47339234
>>47339247
>>47339251
>>47339275
ATHANC!!!

>>47339322
It has weapon master vs beasts you derp.

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>>47339046
This. Need to clean up a few areas but he's mostly done.

>>47339202
He now generates Fury up to his max no matter how much or little Fury you have on the table, as does pThags.

Makes his late game a lot better.

>>47339322
He doesn't duel them, he had an entire army with him.

>>47339322
He's a weaponmaster versus warbeasts, and he got an absolutely ballbusting feat against hordes. What more do you want?

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>>47339283
I won't lie and say that drudges are a joy to clean before painting. so I won't.

Cephalyx are weird because they are mercs but have only a little overlap with other mercs. One advantage is that now you'll be able to take 2 merc units instead of the one so you can overlap your units. However solos, casters, and jacks will be different.

Still- painting Cephalyx is pretty fun, and I personally adore their playstyle. Plus- most of the changes from MK 2 to MK 3 seem positive. I doubt they were ever in line to get nerfed too hard- especially since they are the newest faction.

>>47339315
Did I miss the spoil? Quote got deleted.

anyone who went to L&L last year

Did they sell jerseys in the store?

>>47339465
No, he's just being a dick and posting pictures of the card art instead of full spoilers.

He's been doing it for like the last three days.

>>47339504
Yeah, I know, just from the response it seemed it was an actual spoiler.

The page for the insider was showing the unauthorized message before the page crashed. So there will be one... eventually

There was a Goreshade spoiler before but I honestly have no idea what changed. Seemed to be basically the same to me, but I don't play Cryx.

>>47338861

The second errata didn't add medium bases; it took away large, leaving small and medium.

The lack of MAT fixer sucks (I was really hoping they'd add more of them to Cryx in Mk. III) but it's still a potentially powerful option.

>>47339545
Lost mageblight for no good reason.

PP's website down for anyone else?

Must be a new insider up

>>47339545
Traded Mage Blight for Lamentation, I guess so that he could have that effect and Shadowmancer up at the same time.

>>47339573
>>47339592

Oh right, so he lost some Cryx level bullshit that makes sense. Nice to see them streamlining that to Lamentation.

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>>47339674
No.
Mage blight was core to his identity.

>>47339674
I cannot recall even a single event that was won or even influenced by Mageblight, but sure, take a unique thing from a caster for no good reason.

>>47339716
>>47339722
Cryx tears are delicious

New Primecast is out!

>>47339716
>>47339722
Mageblight was always bullshit. I appreciate that it was his thing though, and when you lose a little bit of that uniqueness it sucks. I think Lamentation is good enough. PP must seem to think that his thing is more having an undead elf slut in tow to suck him off rather than being a bastard in play against in that he can shut down feats.

You guys will be ok. Lamentation is still really good.

>>47339731

Come on, don't stoop down to their level and use the cringey as fuck "X tears are delicious" crap they use to try and make themselves feel better about being hated by everyone.

id love to listen to that primecast... but the website's down again

>>47338754
It looks like everyone will be at least okay with warjacks now.

Ret probably have the best focus efficiency at the moment. This may change as we see more stuff. I get the feeling that Khador is probably going to remain the "two warjacks, three at very most" faction, as that's their style. But their warjacks are much better now that they're MAT7.

>>47335830
he's pretty much the same. lost 360 vision and sunhammer now works a little differently.

>>47339819
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/6/7/a6710e34bd4429c3/Episode_32.mp3?c_id=11747099&expiration=1463700283&hwt=b390c5833c6f11262683c471cd8c81c6

>>47339821
Ret social hubs are filling with power gamers who are all angry their factions got nerfed while Ret stayed about where they were. It's fucking beautiful because Ret don't have the tools to be utterly broken the same way other factions do. The one unit that did got it's shit kicked in for it. Everyone is going to buy in Ret stuff and then realize their "old" factions have more competitive game because they have more options (hence more chances for balance to be off)

>>47339716
>>47339722
Christ.

Mageblight was rarely ever used due to its cost. Lamentation is actually better. Get fucked.

>>47339524
It was a picture of Goreshade, we already know his spells.

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As a Cryx player I think Goreshade is fine with mage blight replaced by lamentation- having a spell that stops feats is incredibly powerful and I can understand how it could result in an unpleasant play experience- plus it feels like more of a Menoth denial spell. Lamentation is A-Ok.

>>47339592
Shadowmancer is range CMD now.

>>47339674
>Goreshade
>bullshit

Some people just have a chip on their shoulder about Cryx because they are bad players who read on the internet that Cryx is OP and concluded that that must be why they lose all the time.

>>47339873
Supposedly their 'casters are getting buffed slightly. Rahn's Force Field is now just a passive ability and he's getting another spell in that slot, we don't know what. Ravyn's spells are cheaper, etc.

Their units have fallen quite a bit in price and gained some clout. Sents having Vengeance as standard and the ability to gain +4ARM for a turn is really good.

So they're definitely being buffed. But they definitely have less stuff, too. I'm willing to bet that in this edition they're the the measuring bar - the faction that is not unbalanced in either way, good or bad.

>>47339907
Makes sense. Shadowmancer would be some bullshit with Mk III's bigger battlegroups if you could cower in the back line and let your jacks hit like trucks up front.

Il say this. WarmaHordes balance will never be achieved because PP is trying to balance more powerful models VS superior mechanics.

Which is why every new Warmachine Faction works to skirt around the core warmachine rules.

Being more powerful, is not the same as being a better machanic.

>>47339716
Stop acting like anyone played Gore1 outside of mangeled metal