/CofD/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness & World of Darkness

>>47128698
New thread, so I'll repost it:

>>47122902
>>Has anybody actually started playing Mage 2e yet?

No.
If I play Mage, I play Ascension.

>implying anybody actually plays games

I / we do, but - again - only World of Darkness games.
My group needs a good lore, too.
Yeah, we're old timers, I know.

We're currently running a VtM game.
>ancient Rome
>Ventrue prince is an asshole (what a surprise)
>tells the group to hunt down a Celtic Baali
>The group: a Gangrel druid, a Brujah from Carthage and a "mysterious", special snowflake Lasombra

It's fun.
We don't even try to be historically accurate, just having a good time.
Rome can be creepy as fuck, with all the ghoul servants, corrupt politicians, infernalist cults, etc, etc.

>>47128698

Reposting my example Mages from last thread to get feedback:

>Lawrence (as in "of Arabia") is a recently-Awakened Acanthus being courted by the Mysterium and Guardians of the Veil, consumed by an Obsession to find the lost city of Ubar. She's a History student at the local university.

>NEEDS A NAME is a Moros Guardian fascinated with the Mystery of reincarnation; he believes Ascension is the only way for the inherently Supernal human soul to escape the Exarchs' prison. He may or may not fall to unsavory practices exploring the nature of the soul.

>Apis is a young Mastigos currently trying to find a way to do two things with magic; get her in her proper body without fear of dispelling, and carve the right sympathetic name on her soul.

>Python, an Obrimos fairly new to the Mysterium and intensely curious about the visions and dreams she seems to be receiving from a higher power. I haven't decided if it's a lesser Exarch, something Abyssal, or The Gate itself.

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Ugh, OP, you're reminding me how poorly I did making that text overlay.

>>47128694
I don't know if Osiris works as a transgender narrative. I DO however think that an Osirian with the "traditional" missing piece works great as a transgender character. I thought of a concept that was basically an ambiguously sexed person who was flat as a Barbie down there, so they sort of flip flop between the Team Mom and Team Dad archetype.

Basically an androgynous Osirian who can't decide if they're supposed to be June or Ward Cleaver.

>>47128719
>I only play DEEP games you wouldn't understand
No one cares if you like oWoD more. But likewise, no one wants to hear you jerk off about how much better you are for it.

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Ajax, Adamantine Arrow Acanthus of the Awakening Gambit. Has mastered Fate & Time, and a disciple of Mind. Politically apathetic, and joined the Arrow with the intention of protecting sleepers, and quietly pushing them towards Awakening.

>>47128694
Against most Mage stuff effectively yes. Legacy attainments are all natural from a Supernal point of view and therefore Indefinite or arbitrarily long duration is nearly indistinguishable from Lasting. Some dick with a Legacy with a dispellation attainment might be able to undo it if he can detect it, but other than that you're ironclad.

>>47128729
Like I said, I actually like them. I'll post my example as well.
>An Acanthus with Fate primary, Death secondary with the Shadowname Tiresias. Possibly stricken blind during whatever made them Awaken. I could go lame and say a hate crime for being trans, since that kiiiind of jives with the original namebearer, but Iunno.

>>47128736
>No one cares if you like oWoD more. But likewise, no one wants to hear you jerk off about how much better you are for it.

I was telling about my group and what kind of games we like to play.
It's a personal opinion.

Also this is still a "/CofD/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness & World of Darkness General" thread, where we can discuss WoD, too.

I'm happy that you have your opinion, but let others have their own, too!

>>47128736

I mean, it certainly wouldn't be the orthodox telling of the story, but if you come at it from "Osiris has what is male cut from him and can then rule as a magical king" and also consider that there were female kings, you can almost make it work. Like I said, works better as a UA Avatar than as a CofD Mage thing, but it's what's on the mind.

I'm just trying to figure out how to make a trans mage not live in constant fear of having their shit dispelled.

From the last thread, to get feedback:
The only other thing that really bothers me is Proximus changes. I don't hate them, they're not bad. But they're not what I like out of Proximi. So here are my changes and notes on why I'd run them that way if I ever used them.

>Proximi get one free Reach; or maybe just their Blessings default to Instant
>Proximi Paradox doesn't fuck up the spell entirely, just fucks up them
>Sleepers don't increase Paradox for Proximi
>Sleepers DO suffer Quiescence, but no more than for any other supernatural event in the WoD.
I like Proximi to feel more like occult psychics or whatever than the more wizardy style of thing that Mages do. I like their powers to feel innate to them as opposed to calling down hire powers. I love the way the Curse works now, but I hate that my Proximus concept that I was looking forward to updating doesn't work anymore because a lot of the themes I wanted to do with an orphaned Proximus are impossible.

He was from a Dynasty of Crusaders and soldiers that tended to get themselves killed. His mother was injured fighting something, and ended up leaving her baby in the snow outside of a strip club where she could hear some people coming to smoke or whatever, and he got raised by them. He grew up a comic book loving weirdo who did parkour, and he ended up seeing a mugging, jumped down to help, and when the person tried to stab him, the blade broke off on his stomach instead. He later developed other powers, like Celestial Fire and Body Control, and decided that since he didn't know his real parents, he MUST be an orphaned alien. He sewed a costume and became a vigilante.
http://pastebin.com/nmJbCFKs

>>47128729
I like Python and Lawrence. Here's one of mine.
>Machiavelli, a Mastigos, has been a Guardian cleaner for as long as he cares to remember. When he and his closest friend were apprentices, his friend was far too greedy with reach, and the paradox released an abyssal entity. The entity possessed his friend, and Machiavelli landed the final blow. Since then, he hunts abyssal leaks with a passion, and masks any guilt he feels towards killing those who don't deserve magic.

>>47128753

I'm so torn between "sad trans Tiresias" and "true to legend cursed with the other sex and kind of okay with it." To me personally, Mage is a game with much less gender-related angst; you fix it with magic and move on.

Now, Promethean? You can write some suicide-inducing queer narratives with that game.

>>47128791

Lawrence is fun because I like a Shadow Name born within living memory, but already moving towards the realm of myth. Plus it's a fun excuse to have a crossover character and rock a sweet tulwar as a Dedicated Tool.

Machiavelli is neat! UA has a faction very similar to the Guardians called The Sleepers, and their fluff revision for the new edition of that game is that they largely recruit from mages who have grossly fucked up; it's kind of like a support group for recovering alcoholics and an internal magic police all at once. Drawing on the guilt, regret, and "I have personally known bubris" angle for the Guardians is a great approach.

Hell, I bet most Guardian recruits are found and brought in because of their first Paradoxes.

All these stupid trannys trying to change from one pathetic form to another one.

- The Daksha

>>47128767
>I / we do, but - again - only World of Darkness games.
>My group needs a good lore, too.
>Yeah, we're old timers, I know.
"My shit is better than yours" is a personal opinion, but still an annoying, masturbatory one.

>>47128782
I don't see how that works better in UA.

As for a trans mage, well, even if their shit gets dispelled, they can generally put it back. That's how I did it. You don't really have to be *afraid* of that happening. I mean, it's unlikely that will get randomly dispelled, and even if it does, that's still rarely going to be as bad as missing hormone pills/patches/shots, which has to deal with actual physics and biology, and the crash that comes from missing dosages of medications.

Many Faces (or hell, Mutable Mask) , cast ritually with a Rote and a Yantra and take Reach to use Advance Duration. Take -10 and make the spell Indefinite. Spend a dot of Willpower to Relinquish it. I mean, dispelling minor beneficial spells seems like it would be a violation of the Lex in most places.

>>47128797
I didn't say Tiresias was sad. I was thinking just shy of that witty queer stereotype. They're blind, but they're not really bothered by it. I was also thinking about having them just flipflop between male and female. Or be female bodied by identify as male. Or just be queer seer, without the blind aspect, not that blindness would really bother a Fate mage.

>>47128838
We can't all be hermaphrodite space Nazis.

>>47128698
do you gain attainments as soon as you have the relevant arcanum dots or are they purchased separately?

How would you flavor a Tremere house made up of The Mad? I personally am seeing them consuming the Subtle Arcana to try and repair the cracks within their own souls, but the repairs are never good enough...

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Ictus.
Formerly middle management, awoke to Mastigos after a stroke while driving lead to the death of his family, and he clawed his way out of Pandemonium to regain some sense of self-repect.

Joined the Silver Ladder, and tries to help people.
By pushing them until they break down and face their problems.
It's not pretty, but he swears it works.

Not particuarly good at much other than Mind.
Sees his Awakened abilities as a tool rather than an ends.

>>47128900

Arcanum attainments are free for hitting the proper rating. Legacy attainments have to be bought.

>>47128909
>House
>Made of The Mad
Pick one.
The Mad are Mad, they wander through their life in a fugue-like state.

>>47128719
>If I play Mage, I play Ascension.

Jesus titfucking Christ

>only World of Darkness games

Jesus cleveland steamer Christ

>currently running a VtM game.

Jesus rimjobing Christ

>>47128929
Luckily they got one whose Obsession is teaching others his Legacy. He's busy teaching all the new bottomed out on Wisdom suitable candidates his new Legacy, by force if necessary. If they don't throw recruits at him he starts making new ones the hard way.

throwing around an idea for an Obrimos Mad One who's obsessed with nuclear radiation and trailing the stuff all over. It's entwined with his nimbus and irradiating his old buddies too, maybe.
i'll sleep on it.

Would a Legacy based on manipulating radiation and radioactive materials be Left-Handed?

Obrimos with Matter arcanum?

>>47129006
No. Why would it be?

>>47128972
Call him Ahab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrkzIN2eP0U

>>47128955
How can we make this work with the Tremere? Maybe one of the Tulpas is a representation of the Soul devouring aspect of the group.
>"Insert your medallion, turn the handle, and meet the greatest, the funnest, the pitiless PACK OF SOUL EATERS!"

So, let's say your PC starts with a 4-dot Goetic Familiar that's the incarnation of humanity's understanding of the concept of "Waifu".

What sort of Influences would she have? Would she be too strong to make as a starting Familiar, forcing you to just use a fictional character underneath her rulership instead?

>>47129303
>So, let's say your PC starts with a 4-dot Goetic Familiar that's the incarnation of humanity's understanding of the concept of "Waifu".
Let's not.

>>47129397
Why not? Waifu definitely exists in the Temenos; you'd think that she would be a valid familiar, right?

>>47129468
I prefer to think that the people who gain Real Ultimate Power in the World of Darkness aren't weebs.

>>47129397
Well it sure beats a Usudwirku infected Gangrel Bloodline that uses Majesty+Aninmalism to get people high on shrooms.

>>47129303
I think everyone got his own understanding of this concept, in truth.

>>47129482

But what if they are? What if guys and gals with shadow names like Musashi, Kitsune and Naruto even formed a cabal?

I'm gonna make a vampire that snorts cocaine

>>47129516

The Diamond and Seers would both agree that this cannot be allowed and wipe them out.

>>47129518
Have fun wasting your money.

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VtM question on torpor: has anyone ever modified the rules for awakening from torpor? I ask because my aprty just torpored a Sabbat Ventrue and they are thinking of blood bonding him, however that means they will have to wait forever for him to awaken. Which kinda ruins any momentum.

So I'm thinking of removing the time constraint if they feed him to full health or something. Thought?

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>>47129518
Or just get a coke whore to snort it for you.

>>47129540
Eh, at least it's better than being a Vampire Meth-addict, that's gonna have it's own problems.

>>47129569
I was meaning more the Cocaine isn't really going to do anything to do.

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This is how I promethean

>>47129516
Sounds like a good Free Council cabal to me! They've even got a decent theme besides "LOL technomagic".

>>47129583
>>47129516
Weeabooism is a pretty valid focus for a Legacy. So is the furry fandom. And baseball. And Anonymous. And zen and the art of motorcycle repair.

>>47129549
You could always have an NPC with some expertise in kindred physiology or thaumaturgy provide a method of waking him up earlier in return for a future favor (and the NPC can always hold the implicit need for secrecy over them if they get cold feet later on). Alternatively, if they've got some especially trusted ghouls he could always be used as a portable wine-press for juicing up if they're required to travel for extended periods without access to their masters (along with all the terrible risks this would entail); kine blood goes in, vitae comes out.

>>47129616
And Feng Shui?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39P67tAau4

>>47129629
Goes without saying.

>>47129516

Brainstorming a bit more, not all mages awake as adults, right? It could be a cabal where all members are apprentices in a 15-17 range. Their mentor could or could not be a Mage antagonist in disguise.

>>47128698
Here is the Banisher Scelestus I mentioned.

>Nemo, an Obrimos Banisher, was a timid man in his early 40s before his traumatic Awakening. When the scale were ripped from his eyes he could see people who through will alone twisted reality until it screamed in pain. He would have been driven mad by the things he could see, but not comprehend if not for the serendipitous intervention of an Acamoth. With the things Nemo could see with his Mage Sight, it wat not difficult for the Acamoth to convince Nemo that it was not just the Awakened that were wrong, the world itself was fundamentally flawed in ways that meant changing it, not just preserving it, was the correct course of action. In exchange for preventing Nemo’s psyche from being ripped apart by Supernal forces, Nemo sacrifices Awakened victims to the Acamoth so they may both bring about the world that should be. To help cover his tracks and pick his targets, Nemo has become quite skilled at not only Prime, but Space as well.

>>47129681
Noice.

>>47129681
Also, I was thinking he took the shadow name, Nemo, because he's just some nobody who seeks a world that does not exist.

http://www.scp-wiki.net/sarkicism-hub
Would these guys be a good Left-Handed Life Legacy?

>>47129617
Yeah, I guess. I think I'll stick to the rules then and have a local Tremere know a ritual because that's the best go-to clan for this (even though Tremere will be the last to help them at this point)

https://youtu.be/5N5zfBzzTvs

Watching this I couldn't help but think about Time Mages

>>47128767

They both have their strong points though; Classic had its 90's cheese, metaplot, and more focused splats. Chronicles has better crossover play, and
Toolkit.

>>47128729
Does everyone in an Awakening campaign have to be of different paths?

>>47128797
If I wanted to listen to retarded gender and queer faggotry then I'd hop over to the RPGnet forums or tumblr

>>47129516
Don't cabals usually center themselves around a theme most times?

>>47129580
Nice

>>47130223
No, they should all be Acanthus.

Are there any Vampires that make use of Heavy Metal?

>>47130336
Everyone appreciates Metal, anon.

>>47130226
Or you could deal with it.

>>47130336
Toreador/Daeva?

>>47129006
>>47129014
Maybe their agenda is to set off a lot of nukes and study the patterns that emerge. You don't need creepy attainments to get your Legacy outlawed.

>>47130226
I don't know how you could possibly be into either WoD if you can't stand queer content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK3sDc4Rlfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2_xsfiAHaU
So, is Echoes ability Forces, Mind or both?

>>47130445
Easy. When I play or run that shit, we don't go full tumblrtard.

>>47130548
It's all over the books. Why bother playing a game if the mere presence of queerness seems to get you triggered?

>>47130548
Truly the best way to do things. I'm not even being sarcastic here, if you can handle things reasonably, you're a good person, which is a rare thing today.

What sort of loot can you get from Sabbat vampires? I'm stuck, because I can't think of anything particularly useful other than a vaulderie cup and some common items like weapons, a phone, cash, etc

>>47130567
I can ignore the book's bs. I just csnt stand it when I read this bs on forums.

>>47130595
>>47130614
If you flip out at people talking about aspects you don't like, can you really be said to be handling it reasonably?

>>47130601

Odd items symbolizing the bonds between pack brothers

>>47130601
Unless they're shovelheads, little bits and pieces of their lives outside of being combat fodder. Even someone whose existence has been reduced to 'nocturnal predator' likely has some sort of personal effects. Trinkets from parts of their mortal lives they've fixated on, trophies from prey, tat from places they've been, that sort of thing.

>>47130530
>>47130631

Sorry. Just didn't expect to find that kind of crap here of all places on the internet

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What's the best Clan and bloodline to sell crack to children in VTR?

>>47130788

Wasn't there an extinct mexican ventrue cocaine bloodline?

>>47130631
Don't look at me like that, I just post homebrew. Speaking of, one idea I had was a Gangrel Bloodline with, of all things, Majesty as their fourth discipline. They believe that their control over their Beast marks them as the kind of people who can actually lead vampires into a new era...though if you knew about their weakness, you'd wonder who is really in control of who.

The weakness of this bloodline is due to their origins. As descendants of the Savages, they already have frenzy problems. But having one foot in the blood of the Serpents brings to light a new issue, if someone does something that contradicts one of their Bans, they fly into a Frenzy immediately, simply put: They get really fucking triggered.

>>47130601
>Wallets and wallet shit
>guns
>knives
>other weapons
>pictures of cute Cammie sluts they've diablerized
>items autographed by famous Archbishops
>secret ritual shit to get into contact with his or her secret Tal'Mahe'Ra handlers.

>>47130735
And shovelheads will have random human shit, anyway. Pieces of their former lives as street people and lowlives.

>>47130601
>What sort of loot can you get from Sabbat vampires?

HIV and a cocaine dependency

>>47130836
>>47130809
>pictures of cute Cammie sluts they've diablerized
>items autographed by famous Archbishops
10/10

>>47130601
Little pocket-sized copies of the Code of Milan

>>47130934
Oh, that's a good one, thank you!

I've gotta ask again: am I reading this stuff about Nimbus Tilts correctly? If you choose to have your Nimbus give a bonus toward a skill, you can then basically give people +1 and 8-again on rolls with that skill at no cost whenever you feel like it? That seems fairly strong.

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>>47130601
Something terribly subtle and mature.

>>47130601
Some autistic Sabbat cunt's chart showing every vaulderie he's ever done, and every resulting vinculum, with dorky little calculations estimating the strength of the existing vinculi.

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Alright you slack-nimbused, abyss-stretching, quiescence-spewing, sacks of awakened flesh, LISTEN UP! I am Interfector Ryczek! I am in charge of training you, backwood maggots, in the Arcana of Time and Fate! In my time in the Diamond Orders I have personally trained more than fifty initiates and I am proud to say almost fourteen of 'em have yet to try to kill Hitler!

Pic related it's the Sympathetic Yantra I'll nail your ass with if you ever pull a stunt like that.

>>47130987
Like a baby on a stick?
>>47131017
Ha, I like this one, thanks

>>47131131

But I got Death and Matter

>>47131139
>Like a baby on a stick?

Exactly. Just a token needlessly cruel, disgusting thing. Maybe a poorly filmed home video of the pack's rowdier member gangraping a Toreador ancillae with fire pokers or something

>>47131131
Sorry, I got Death and Life. It's fun to lead armies of undead mutated monsters to wreak shit for you.

>>47131131
Dammit I did not want to picture Soldier as an Arrow Acanthus, I don't think the timeline could handle the stupidity.

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What do people think about the Beaten Down special rule? I reckon it sounded interesting, but it might be annoying to manage. Anyone had experience with it?

>>47128698
>Okay, so Fate 4 + Time 2 mage is in a gunfight with a Seer, and he's going to try to turn them into a member of the Free Council by retroactively fucking with Fate. He Reaches to get Temporal Sympathy, Sensory Range, and Advanced Duration. He'll be probably be eating some Bashing damage from Paradox, but he figures it's worth it. He gets one free Reach, so he gets 4 Paradox dice, and probably eats one or two successes on those dice as Bashing damage.
>He then casts the spell. He gets 4 Potency as the Primary Factor, and he's working against a Medium Temporal Sympathy (Mage as he is now to Mage as he was immediately following Awakening), so that's Withstand 2; a starting mage probably has 2-3 points in Resolve, so he's looking at a Withstand of 3-4. His base dice pool is Fate 4 + Gnosis 3 (the minimum for Fate 4), so he has seven dice, plus Yantra bonuses. He spends two dice to increase Potency by one, two dice to increase Duration to One Day (long enough for the young Awakened to come into contact with someone who can induct them into the Free Council, surely), and as a Mage with 3 Gnosis, he gets 3 Yantras. One is the Sympathetic Yantra, to hit his younger self. One is a silver coin on a necklace, used to represent him flipping his allegiance from one side to another. One is a glass rod, used to project the Mage's power from himself to his opponent. He gets five dice to roll, and almost definitely scores at least one success.
>The Seer is now been retroactively turned into a member of the Free Council.

I still kinda want someone to prove or disprove this spell to me.

>>47131842
There's no need to disprove it.
I do have one question, though. Why is a Gnosis 3 Mage having trouble killing a starting mage?

>Division Six has been tricked into working under a Seer Pylon.
>Knights of Saint George are working for things from the Abyss.
What next, a Hunter group that is unknowingly in the service of the Tremere?

>>47131898
>There's no need to disprove it.
Really? So it is possible? I am not trying to start flamewar again - I do truly just want to know if this is possible spell.

>Why is a Gnosis 3 Mage having trouble killing a starting mage?
Gnosis 3 isn't that much far away from starting mage. In fact, starting mage can have Gnosis 3, if he spends all his Merit points on it.

>>47132034

A hunter group in service of Banishers. Oh, wait...

>>47132037
I don't know of anything that would make it impossible.
Granted, it'd have an additional +1 Withstand if you don't know the Seer's Sympathetic Name, and you'd have to be looking at him the entire time you're casting.
You'd also need to take 3 turns to take it; one for the default casting time, and then 1 for each additional Yantra being used.

It's possible, in theory, but if you're completely alone and the Seer is hostile, I wouldn't recommend it.

>>47132037
>In fact, starting mage can have Gnosis 3, if he spends all his Merit points on it.
Dave has actually said that, apparently, he heavily considered not putting that line in the book, because doing so is NOT advantageous at all, especially with how good the Awakened merits are.

>>47130788
Daeva Anvari Bloodline. + being Daeva as parent clan you can also fuck drugged child as a bonus.
Concept: Tooth fairy
You creep to a boys room at night, give him a drugged capcake and let him fuck you while feeding on him.

>>47132599
What the fuck

>>47132628
I am thinking exactly the same thing.

Would a Mage theoretically be able to affect someone with Sensory Range by watching a live stream of them?

EG, if you were watching the watching the New Years Rockin' Eve thing live on NYE, and you decided to add some flare to the ball drop, could you theoretically use Forces to do so, from your apartment on the other side of town?

Obviously, Paradox would ensue, in that case.

>>47130601
I'd say a cute shotapire full of bugs but then I remembered that's the Baali

>>47132694
>The Advanced Range factor is sensory, meaning that the mage must be able to directly see, hear, or sense her subject.

>Viewing a subject remotely but in real-time, whether by security camera or magic scrying window, requires an additional Reach.

>For example, a Gnosis 1 character’s healing spell with a Duration of a day heals its Potency in Health boxes every three hours.

Wait, what Life 1-3 spell lets you heal Potency health boxes?

>>47132915
>Knit(Life •••)
>Practice: Perfecting
>Primary Factor: Potency
>Suggested Rote Skills: Empathy, Medicine, Survival
>One of the most useful applications of Life magic, perhaps the one most mages imagine when they think of the Life Arcanum, is the ability to heal living Patterns. The mage can heal her subject’s body of injuries it would be capable of healing itself given time, and repair damage done by toxins or deprivation (though such damage will continue to accrue as normal unless prevented by other means). Each level of Potency heals two boxes of bashing damage.
>+1 Reach: The mage may heal Personal Tilts such as Arm Wrack, forcing broken bones back into shape.
>+1 Reach: The spell heals damage done by deprivation and charges the subject’s system as though she had received a full meal and plenty of water.
>+1 Reach: The spell reproduces the effects of a full night’s rest in the subject, including regaining a point of Willpower if applicable.

>>47130762
Welcome to /wodg/

Playing world of darkness games means we don't have time to be juvenile about lgbt stuff. Some people like dicks in their butts. Some like dicks. Some got rid of their dick.

More important than that, Jesus Christ there are vampires out there!

>still mostly mage stuff

>Hunter THe Vigil game
>meta gaming player gets all the merits which give him potential for extra shit, picks up 'Mystery Cult Initiation'
>He's playing the fetch of a character who turned into a changeling last game, long story
>Now part of 'Apotheosis', a group of various not quite human WoD creatures (fetches, ghouls, one Promethean) who want to become human

Basically right now he's in the happy 'Hey, we're just a group of peeps trying to get along' period of cultness, I need ideas for the weird shit to come as he gets deeper in the cult.

Already planning cannibalism and a religious obsession with 'Humans were created in God's image, let us become gods via fucked up rituals and shit'. Reading 'Immortals' for some inspiration.

Any ideas?

So i just got up and forgive me if we've already moved on from this but does anyone have any idea why they changed how making physical objects from tass works in 2e? i mean it doesn't make much sense from an in setting standpoint, since tass is physical mana i dont see why it would lose its mana and degrade, and the only mechanically justification i can come up with is that they dont want it to edge in on matters territory but theres a sidebar which explicitly says multiple arcanum can do the same thing and thats okay so i wouldnt see why they would be worried about that either.
If i wanted it to work more like it did in 1e should i just change the base rules or add it not using up mana as a reach affect?

>>47133527
Accepted answer was that since it only spends mana if you give it an equipment bonus, te mana cost is because you have created something beyond the phenomenal world's normal capabilities, so have to actively fuel it with mana.

If you just create a sword, then the world recognises the symbol for sword and just lets you have it.

If you create a sword with a +4 equipment bonus you've forged a weapon sharper than any human ever could, and the fallen freaks out because you're hacking the universe and it can't deal. So it fights to erase your impossible sword, forcing you to keep pumping in mana to keep it's pattern stable.

>>47133586
Note, my cosmology may be a bit out, but you get the point right?

>>47133515
Reversing Original Sin by growing apple orchard using dead babies as fertilizer. Bonus points - using alive babies with some weird fey magick, so trees start to grow out of live chained in place screaming toddlers.

>>47133606
Jump straight to baby killing.

Never disappoint /wodg/

>>47133672
Its bonus points if they stay alive!

>>47132766
joke's on you anon, they actually will be fighting a Baali

>>47133515
Becoming Jesus through acts of vandalism and murder massive enouph to get you characters death sentence and then rebirth(or not)

Okay, I'd wanted some advice about how may I handle open war between Pentacle and Seers without it going nuclear for all involved parties.

>>47133895
Mage war isn't won with magic, but with the other side destroying themselves with Paradox and shit. Each side knows this, so they force battles in cities, meaning neither can just Unmake the other.

>>47133895

One way to mitigate open war is to include something in the area that both the Pentacle and Seers fear.

I would choose to include a Bound, with both groups acknowledging that massive spells or paradox risk releasing a apocalypse-level monster who could kill them all.

>>47133895
Magical articles of war agreed upon by the Seers & the Pentacle as irreconcilable differences became apparent.
Neither side is(hopefully) terrifically interested in watching everyone they know erased from time, or literally nuked into oblivion while reducing the place they live and work into an Abyss/Paradox-infested hellhole.

What happens if a Forces master Unmakes gravity over a large area, particularly outside? Does everyone shoot into orbit.

Similarly, if that same master Unmakes heat or kinetic energy with a significant area of effect, do large numbers of people just drop dead?

>>47134021
Unmaking gravity would remve it, not replace it with up gravity. People would flot, most people would float in the direction they were walking as they unintentionally kick off from the ground and would keep going forever.

You know, unless the lack of gravity meant they exploded

>In particle physics, the strong interaction is the mechanism responsible for the strong nuclear force (also called the strong force, nuclear strong force), one of the four known fundamental interactions of nature, the others being electromagnetism, the weak interaction and gravitation. Despite only operating at a distance of a femtometer, it is the strongest force, being approximately 100 times stronger than electromagnetism, a million times stronger than weak interaction and 1038 times stronger than gravitation at that range.[1] It ensures the stability of ordinary matter, confining quarks into hadron particles, such as the proton and neutron, the largest components of the mass of ordinary matter. Furthermore, most of the mass-energy of a common proton or neutron is in the form of the strong force field energy; the individual quarks provide only about 1% of the mass-energy of a proton.

Could I use Forces Fraying spell to weaken this and make a guy's head vanish

>>47134021
1)gravity from outside of that area still works? So its like 1% of earth dissapeared, but you still hold to the rest 99%. Otherwise all shit in that area fly in random direction with huge speed since its no longer affected by gravity of Earth, Sun, Milky Way, etc but still retaining absolute speed it gained from orbiting all this stuff.
2) Kinetic and heat is basicaly same thing. Everything inside cannot be alive, but it cannot die either since physicaly all atoms and molecules intact and just stuck in place. + if one part of the universe freezes like that other parts keep moving and probably crush into it, but since there is no movement inside matter will be pressed against edge of that area resulting in explosions, blackholes, other weird stuff.

You cant fuck with universe like that.

>>47133961
>so they force battles in cities, meaning neither can just Unmake the other
Why not? It's not like it is vulgar anymore.

>>47134135
YES! MAGICK!

>>47134135
Yes, but:
>Damage inflicted by a direct-attack Fraying spell is always bashing.
It would be more like Unmaking anyway.

>>47134201
Man, Forces is fucking savage.

>>47134196
Which raises a question I had. Since aimed spells give you a chance to doge them, they must have a visual effect like a particle beam.

Does a Sleeper witnessing that cause Paradox?

>>47134225
I'm Fraying the force in between his atoms, not his actual atoms/head. I'm not doing any damage and neither is my spell, his head being obliterated is a side effect

>>47134225
Dude missing his head, but its still just bashing damage, one night of good sleep to rest and "collect his thoughts"

>>47134225
the thing is, Forces allows you to cause grievous damage without necessarily using a Fraying direct damage spell.
For instance, it's a Forces •• spell to call down a lightning strike on someone if there's a thunderstorm in the area. Similarly, it's Forces ••to control & direct fire, which can cause grievous injuries to mortals, much less creatures who have fire as a bane.

Forces is hella.

>>47134261
>they must have a visual effect like a particle beam

Page 115, Aimed Spells,

"Aimed Spells
A mage can attempt to throw or fire her spell at her subject instead of touching him when casting at standard range. Aimed spells appear as bolts of energy or projections coming from the casting mage, as opposed to spells cast at sensory range which materialize at the point of the subject. "

>>47134135
>>47134261
Magic and Physics don't really mix. You could in theory use Fraying of Forces, but it wouldn't obliterate his head anyways; it'd just let them drift apart a bit, then snap back together, which would be enough sudden force to constitute Bashing damage.

A Sleeper witnessing an aimed spell would cause a Paradox risk, yes.

>>47134307

That's only theoretically true .

The actual damage from Extreme Environment, Environmental Tilts and similar Condition, no less meager direct damage, does not even remotely match the carnage that one would expect from such attacks.

Would you play the Luteces from Bioshock Infinite as a single Mage? Make one a Mastigos with Time and the other an Acanthus with Space and you should be good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cb96qvTWGI

>>47134380
lightning strikes are "kinda" weak(they'll still completely fill an average human's health track with bashing) but fire's good as hell comrade.

>>47134568
Well, mages aren't about direct attack, they are about indirect use of magic for massive collateral damage.

>>47134620

If only Extreme Environment and Environmental Tilts actually reflected "massive collateral damage."

>>47134708
You only need "Imagination" merit

>>47134708
>"massive collateral damage."
What like using a sympathetic portal to drop part a building on someone?

>>47134135
>>47134323
Physics is part of the Lie. The first step of magic is intent.
If you want to cause damage, it'll be fraying them with forces with an instantaneous effect.
If you want to impose an survivable state, that will be Withstood.
If you really want to target the nuclear forces in a specific area without knowing/caring for the exact ramifications or the hubris that involves, you are free to do so and it's part of the game. STs without a thorough understanding of particle physics might take issue with the application, but it's part of the game nonetheless

>>47130098
>>47130098

Oh fuck PBS Idea channel! It's just a bunch of hipsters who couldn't hack it jacking off to whatever pseudo intellectual drivel them and their friends spout forth from their mouths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AeJqyECyiw
Ah the wonders of Space when peering at someone possessed by a Goetic Demon of Rage.

>>47134764

That sounds good, now actually model a Forces spell that drops a building on someone, with or without a sympathetic portal.

How much Potency and Scale-Size might be required for sufficient strength to lift entire buildings?

Forces is narratively described as super-powerful, but the spell system mechanics just don't bear it out.

>>47135034
If your character has some Matter or some education in engineering\construction that task can be narrowed down to 1-2 punches. Magick can melt steel beams after all.

>>47135034
>spell system mechanics just don't bear it out
What exactly do you find lacking? With 4 Potency Control Fire you can turn a match into a forest fire. Just look at what that did to Fort McMurray.

>>47134923
Wow, someone is super salty. Did you donate to PBS as a kid and not get your tote bag?

>>47135090
>>47135157

Let's stick only with Forces as per the original suggestion. Using the necessary Factors and Practices, I'm curious how the spell "lift and drop entire large building on adversary" would be modeled. If it could be done without mastery, I'll be even more impressed.

Don't forget to include the necessary Potency for strength to lift, Scale-Size for the building itself, as well as sensory, range and duration factors.

>>47135223
If you need it to be lifted and dropped, that's ••••Levitation with scale factors to account for the size of the thing and likely some additional penalty for severing its tethers to earth.

If you just need a building dropped on someone close to said building, you may be able to get away with a meager ••Control Gravity, with the same caveats based on construction and integrity.

The main difficulty is not the manipulation of forces, but overcoming witnesses and the hubris involved with taking a needlessly convoluted route, when Control Gravity can just fling them into the sky.

Can I use Forces 2 (Veiling) to make someone THINK they're floating by hiding gravity from them?

>>47135470
No.

>>47135507
Why not?

>>47135164
No. Just sad to see PBS go from Bob Ross and Julia Childs to hipsters acting like they know fuck all about anything.

>>47135591

Well it's not like their actual TV channel has changed any, and when the government would really rather see you gone entirely, you do what you can to maintain some kind of relevance.

>>47135516
Because it would be obvious that they're not. Hiding a building with Matter doesn't make people think they're falling, just that they're standing on something they can't see. Veiling gravity would just feel weird, and maybe give them vertigo but it would be obvious that they're not floating.

>>47136015
>>47135591
People who complain about "hipsters" being pretentious and acting like they know everything while they also provide citations and further reading is really silly to me. It just strikes me as a kneejerk hate for new media, especially when they never ask the same of old media. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a traditional television educational program provide citations, *except* Adam Ruins Everything, and that started as a webshow. Although I guess maybe you could argue interviewing authors and pimping their books as a citation?

It's also not like Bob Ross and Julia Childs were trying to be strongly educational programs; even then, Bob Ross was practically a hippie spouting psuedo-religious feelgood philosophy and I'm pretty sure Julia Childs was sloshed. This is also the channel with the world's most annoying littlest cancer patient.

>>47135470
I guess that spell would make people unable to conceive of gravity, meaning trajectory calculations or somesuch would be penalized.

>>47136199

>It's also not like Bob Ross and Julia Childs were trying to be strongly educational programs; even then, Bob Ross was practically a hippie spouting psuedo-religious feelgood philosophy and I'm pretty sure Julia Childs was sloshed. This is also the channel with the world's most annoying littlest cancer patient.

Public TV is dying a slow death, an actual problem since the tech and internet gap is still a thing, and you want to turn it into tired "old media vs new media" bullshit. Fuck off.

>>47136489
Public TV has always been dying, why the hell do you think they beg for donations and keep programs like Antiques Roadshow that cost next to nothing? It's the only way they can afford educational cartoons and Cosmos.

But you (or that poster) certainly makes it a new media versus old issue when you talk about how the PBS Digital Studios programs (or at least Idea Channel) are a bunch of hipsters acting like they know anything.

>>47136690
>Public TV has always been dying

BBC has loadsa money because they made funding it a mandatory part of owning a TV.

America just got it wrong

>>47136749
Well. Yeah. Honestly, "TV Tax" sounds silly to Americans, but why should it?
Oh, right, because "I ain't payin' fer no lib'ral commie system!"

>>47136749
>>47136831

Or, maybe most Americas don't believe it necessary or appropriate to have an "official" government television channel, no less provide the government the ability to know how many televisions a home might possess and be taxed for the "privilege," which may in fact have numerous First Amendment problems.

Notably, while a great many Britons like or have pride in the BBC, their attitudes and complaints about its funding and related issues is still quite strong and pervasive. If the BBC is as good as many claim, why can't they stand on their own without compulsory participation and funding. They provide much of the same mainstream entertainment, often from the USA and elsewhere, so why shouldn't they compete in the marketplace like every other network?

>>47137061
There are numerous economic and sociological reasons why public funding is useful, but if you want to talk about them, it should be somewhere other than the /wodg/

Tzimisce waifu best waifu

Exalted got a lewd supplement didn't it? Did nwod never get one? Wth WW/OP!

>>47137061
The government doesn't know how many televisions a home might possess, and you aren't taxed for televisions. The TV license works differently a little to that.

Anyway, who gives a fuck about the 'marketplace'? Why should I give up my access to good TV just so a bunch of corporations can try and gouge me even more and produce the worst shit they can get away with?

The marketplace isn't some sort of holy writ, it's a pile of shit designed to seperate us poor bastards from as much cash as possible.

>>47137559
Bit sexist

>>47137637
>Doubting the Free Market's holy scripture of solving all problems forever (even the ones it would be unprofitable to solve)
Communist!

Any fellow Britfags got ideas for London's Elysium in a Vampire game?

I was thinking the whole South Bank complex; large enough and social enough to warrant big meetings of vampires without attracting attention.

Also prime hunting ground which would piss people off by being off limits.

See, I've been reading bits and pieces of mage 2, but haven't gotten far.

I remember their thing is mysteries now more than ever. Would a cabal keep a Stigmatic around as a resident sleepwalker for the sake of him/her helping them find spooky stuff?

>>47137826
I see no reason why not. They, themselves, can't see or interact with Angels, or Infrastructure, as far as I'm aware, though.

>>47137892
Well I imagine with Angel stuff being like spirit stuff, the proper mage sight scrutinizing the area should pick up their activity right? Not like it would work to just find them at random, but active sight when proof of an Angel should be right there, I feel like that should do the trick just so GMC stuff isn't cut off from mages. Everyone should get a chance to rage against the machine.

>>47137892
Ostensibly they could with Space, though I think the God-Machine beats you on a Clash of Wills.

>>47137983
Good question, what would be rolled for the resistance of infrastructure that shouldn't have a resistance stat?

>>47137983
>>47137950
I think one of the devs said a while back that, if any Arcanum would apply to the God-Machine's Twilight, it would be Forces.

>>47138062
Would that be to just pick up the ambient energy it is giving off? Like, there is a hidden factory off is street that no one notices, until a made realizes radiation is coming off of a place that should have no real radiation?

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>>47137806
My London Elysium is the entire Circle Line. As long as you're on it, you're safe.

Anybody use any homebrew stuff un Chronicles/NWOD?

If si; how'd that turn out and woukd you ever do it again?

>>47137983
>>47138034
>>47138062
>>47138120

This topic has been brought up before. Have fun with the links below.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/504716-the-god-machine-the-awakened

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/308610-exarchs-vs-god-machine

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/284736-awakened-and-god-machine

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/74456-detecting-god-machine-infrastructure-with-awakened-magic

>>47138220
Can't you just tldr?

>>47138182
I have a friend who refuses to ever play changeling again... Because Genius is trash.

>>47138249
The fuck tdlr?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNmhYUaOao
>COZ I FOUND A GIRL
>WHO'S IN LOVE WITH A GIRL
>SHE SAID THAT SHE TRIED
>BUT SHE'S NOT INTO GUYS

Werewolf anthem

>>47138062
I meant the spatial folding that hides Infrastructure. I don't think that part is in Twilight. Although it might be a separate reality, like The Hedge or Shadow. I'm never sure how it actually works, the book wasn't clear on that.

>>47138120
I think it's the electricity and all that. Radiation, though not necessarily nuclear kind.

>>47138130
>>47137806
Circle Line Elysium is pretty neat, but isn't Elysium generally just a single building? Though there might be prime feeding grounds that's only allowed to be hunted on by people who've been given that privilege.

>>47131842
There's the rather major issue of people possibly undoing it. Also that if you're using it on a Seer his job is likely assigned to some other Seer who you now have to deal with. Now for Banishers, Scelesti, and other such people without a major support network they're pretty much free game to retroactively put to Sleep.

>>47138266
Details por favor~

I must know how a mad science bitch slapped a faerie

>>47138306
>The Vamps
>Werewolf

>>47138302
"Too long, didn't read". It's one of the most used internet acronyms.

>>47138311
>but isn't Elysium generally just a single building?

Boy I sure do love gathering all the most influential members of my species in one easily targetable place all at the same time.

That's Hunter talk son.

>>47138311
Spatial folding is apparently only folded space.

Isnt its possible to just sense moving Matter inside Infrastructure? All you need is to know where things is supossed to be still, but moving nonetheless

>>47138338
It wasn't that. So much as someone put out a call for a changeling game, and then only two of the PCs ended up getting changelings, the rest were geniuses who started doing crazy genius stuff. The game immediately jumped the rails and never got back on track, then it crashed and burned.

>>47138403
>>47138375
True, but then we have to wonder where the mage sight would perceive it as being. The GM can make stuff equidistant that isn't, can make the north and south pole neighbors, and make a door lead to yesteryear.

What would forces perceive? A line in space with energy pouring out?
What would matter see? The very sound of churning gears, even though they might be in a picket dimension a year away?

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>>47138353
Yeah, it's not like there are already places in London were all the powerful influential people meet to discuss important events or anything...

Also, you DO know what Elysium is, right? It's not a big spread out special vampire area. It's the meeting place where you secure it and make sure that no one can bomb or attack it because you need *somewhere* that you can discuss things and hold important meetings. Elysium is basically a government building. You kind of need that for governments to function, and Vampires aren't even in need of as much paranoia as Mages (who have had Consilia fall because they weren't as circumspect about hiding the meeting place).

>>47138375
Well, yeah. But is it folded space as in an impossible amount of room between an alleyway, or is it folded space as in "a pocket dimension"?

>>47138403
No, because you can't tell the matter is there, because you're looking at spatial distortions. It'd technically be a Clash of Wills with Active Space Mage Sight (since that's the Mage Sight that can tell there are spatial distortions) but the Concealment Infrastructure is basically always going to win that. It's also possible that the Infrastructure is "Supernal Dead", like a... what's the opposite of a Verge again?

Concealment Infrastructure would also likely cover most of the other issues. That said, a Mage who knows what they're doing could probably start trying to find the God-Machine in the same way that astrophysicists try to find black holes. Stumbling across gaps and then trying to figure out WHY there are gaps is the kind of thing that could drive a Mage's Obsession. Especially if something is TOO perfect, too homogenous. Why is it so normal? It's so conspicuously boring that it's INTERESTING.

>>47138461
I think only space lets you see it.

>>47138536
>Yeah, it's not like there are already places in London were all the powerful influential people meet to discuss important events or anything...

>he thinks Number 10 is a real place

There's a foyer, a waiting room cum holding cell and an underground passage to the governmental bunkers.

You really thought they let political leaders meet in publicly known pseudo-residential locations?

That's adorable

Quick, have any britbong players made up a brit version of TFV? What was it called? (Unless they already have it a name on a supplement)

>>47138536
>It's not a big spread out special vampire area.
Yes they are

SOME elysium are really well maintained and secured places

others are just wide areas where vampires are told not to break the law against each other (usually the law involves hitting)

>>47138633
>Quick, have any britbong players made up a brit version of TFV? What was it called?

It's called SIS you cheeky cunt. Supernatural operations are code-worded MUGGLE, but otherwise they fall into the standard security arrangements.

Only Americans need a super special secret organisation to monitor their shit. The Commonwealth has used magic for hundreds of years, its an integrated part of our national defence strategy.

>>47138633
TFV

>>47138697
>The Commonwealth has had magic used on it for hundreds of years, being slaves to supernaturals is an integrated part of our national defence strategy.

The Queen has sold their country to Exarchs, vampires, Pure and the God Machine

>>47138728
>mentioning Her Royal Majesty in a CofD thread

Oh lad, it's very much in your best interests to not look under that particular curtain

>>47138728
Who doesnt?

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>>47138766

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>>47138794
>it's funny because this nigga dead

>>47138811
>Monarchy Beats Presidency
But... that's exactly why monarchy is a problem. Well, it would be if the Queen had any real power.

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>>47138811
>it's funny because this nigga dead

just like all the rest

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>>47138851
>But... that's exactly why monarchy is a problem

Free Council pls

>>47138811
Thats only shows that usa is better protected agains true fey invasion

>>47131842
Well, you're missing one point of Withstand, unless he knows the Seer's Sympathetic Name. So withstand 4 or 5. But that's fairly minor.

Other than that, as your hypothetical ST I want to know EXACTLY what the Imago you're trying to form here is, because unless you've done enough legwork to actually find out anything about the Seer's past around the time of his Awakening I don't see how you're going to properly form such an Imago. Like, have you scryed into his past to see how he ended up in the Seers? Is there a particular event you know of that lead to his joining them that you want to prevent occurring? Is there a particular member of the Free Council you know was around then you could nudge him toward?

If not, then I wouldn't allow the spell at all. "I envision he joined the Free Council instead" is NOT a valid Imago. You have to actually visualize something concrete to use Improvised Magic. If you DID have something more concrete in mind, though, then I see no problem allowing such a spell - shit, if you actually did the legwork to pull something like this off, I'd throw in some Arcane XP for creativity.

>>47138536
Well Elysium is neutral ground for all vampires, and London has a huge vampire population since it's a major city and had gothic routes up to the eyeballs.

I feel like they'd need more than one building manage all their shit, which is why the South Bank seemed like a good idea since its got bars, restaurants, theaters. All good places to meet and talk things out. Also so many humans that you'd have to be a fucking moron to break the Masquerade there.

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>>47138811

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>>47139164
EDGY AS FUCK
D
G
Y

A
S

F
U
C
K

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>>47139242
Only Londoners

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Something bad happened after Requiem for Regina.

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>>47139319
>brit autism

Sometimes this shit cuts a little too close to home

>>47139319
European vampires must be having a refugee feast right now.

>>47139142
Keep in mind that 200 vampires is apparently a lot for Tokyo.
Greywalker's London actually has two vampire groups, the Brotherhood of Saint James and the Brotherhood of Saint John. Reading it, I can't keep the two straight, and the interesting personal mystery of the main character is lessened by the utter clusterfuck of a setting.

>>47139044
The thing about all of these examples is that they require so much legwork and power that there are honestly easier ways about it.

>>47139405
Not really, Assamite running those herds are not to keen on sharing.

>>47139526
Yea, pretty much. I hate people who white-room CofD games when so much of them ends up coming down to context in-play. Especially in Mage, where a lot of Improvised Casting ends up coming down to "what the Storyteller will let me do."

This is why I LIKE Temporal Sympathy, though. Like I said, if one of my players came up with that plan during play (and actually did the legwork/thought it through) I think that would be cool as fuck. And I think that "one of the Mages in your order comes in, and you notice a bunch of weird Time and Fate resonance on him. Did someone fuck with his timeline?" is an EXCELLENT plot hook/Mystery.

>>47139526
>>47139370
>>47139319
Speaking of London, how about London in the Mage 2e?

>On the other side of the city, a cabal’s pub crawl follows a path that, when written in High Speech, is a far more (ahem) potent variation on the concepts of water of life, aqua vitae, and uisce beatha.Each pint they drink becomes a trail marker. Though their bender seems to last a week, only a night has passed at the end of it.

All-Mage pub crawl who's in.

>>47139659
>spend a night with british mages
>it feels like it's a week
sounds right

>>47139586
This is exactly what I wanted to say when the whole Temporal Sympathy debate was raging for the past few threads, but it got drowned out in all the shit-posting.

I play WoD because its gamelines are positively dripping with story potential. Temporal Sympathy is just one more tool in the Storyteller's toolbox of plot-building mechanics. It also offers the players the opportunity to come up with some creative solutions to their problems that wouldn't have been possible in Mage 1e—and probably to create some new problems of their own along the way!

>>47139526
>>47139586
>>47139780
>and probably to create some new problems of their own
This is one of the biggest points that the Temporal Sympathy trolling ignored. Altering the past is always going to have consequences. There's no telling what sort of Present you'll find yourself in after you do something as dramatic as killing a Mage before he ever Awakens or changing which Order he joins. Special props to your Storyteller if he manages to think up a new timeline that is both better AND worse than the one you came from, so you have to seriously consider whether or not you made the right choice.

>>47139659

The World's End with mages?

>>47139586
It's also a literal part of the setting. You don't leave Sympathy if you can help it. You hide it as best you can so that no one has fresh blood or hair clippings. In Dresden Files, literally the first book has Dresden freak out that a mobster got his hair, and he nearly gets hit with a massive kill spell. Later books have his allies assure him that they burned any bloody rags from patching him up.

As a Mage, THIS IS THE SHIT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WORRY ABOUT. You won't always have to worry about it, because few Mages will bother with the legwork, and it's likely illegal in the area, but holy fuck, you make sure you don't get fucking killed.

>>47139871
It was clearly a God-Machine plot.

>>47139927
Would Wards and Signs (Prime ••) work on sympathetic connections?

>>47140028
It would add to the Withstand rating of any spell targeting them over a Sympathetic connection, yes.

Useful because it allows you to Withstand spells that ordinarily wouldn't have the option.

>>47133390
Mage came out less than a week ago. This is unlikely.

>>47140096
Huh, that's a good point (and probably should be FAQ'd as that makes it crazy good).
>When the subject is the target of a spell, that spell is Withstood with the Potency of Wards and Signs.
>Only spells that directly target the subject can be Withstood; a spell that turns the air around her into fire cannot be Withstood.
I had misread it previously and thought it meant that it lets you Withstand spells that could normally be Withstood, but it flat out gives you an extra blanket Withstand. Shame that spells don't Withstand with their potency, but I suppose you could add an extra target factor to target itself, so that the spell itself Withstands with it's potency.

>If a spell has multiple Withstand ratings (for example, a Withstood spell cast with the Sympathetic Range Attainment) it uses the highest rating, +1 for every additional rating.
Even at potency 1, this spell bumps Withstand ratings by 1.

>>47140690
By default, spells have a Withstand of your rating in the relevant Arcanum. You can raise that to Arcanum+2 with 1 Reach.
At least as far as being Dispelled is concerned.

How much of a problem do you think would be solved by simply removing the "with an exceptional success you can bypass all Withstand" option on spellcasting?

>>47140772
That's what I meant. Could you cast Wards and Signs on a spell to make it more difficult to affect? It seems to be the only way to protect your spells against tampering, since they only Withstand dispellation, unless they get a Clash of Wills to not be altered that I'm unaware of. Could Wards and Signs be affected by another Wards and Signs or affect itself as an extra target factor?

>>47140863
Not much. It requires you to get an exceptional success, which is rare in the first place, especially at low-Gnosis dice pool sizes. If you're raising your Potency at all, to beat a Withstand rating, it just means your spell has higher Potency. If you're not, and are depending heavily on getting the Exceptional in order for the spell to take effect, then you're losing dice every time you try and fail to get the necessary successes.

>>47140894
You can't mess with a spell once it's been cast, unless you're Paradox and the spell was relinquished unsafely.

>>47140916
>which is rare in the first place
Don't take any penalties to your dice roll to bother boosting potency, and then add one of the various roll-bosting spells that Fate has, add in a Praxis or Rote, and all of a sudden it's easy as hell.

>>47140863
I'm not sure how to read the intent of your question, but I think that option's existence was an outright mistake.

>>47140916
Withstand lowers the effective Potency of spells you throw at it. If you're using a spell with an absolute effect, rather than one that scales with Potency, you're better off saving your dice and bolstering the dice pool to get an exceptional. Doesn't matter if it's a potency 20 spell, so long as it wasn't Archmaster+ magic, an Initiate can dispel it with an exceptional.

>>47140953
Word of Command lets you muck about with triggers and the like. You can also cast additional spells onto the spells. Supernal Veil for example might be used to make a mage think their relinquished spell was dispelled.

>>47141131
In that case, yes, you could use Wards and Signs on a Spell.

>>47139780
It's also a pretty sweet tool for keeping your friends and family safe. Sure, sometimes it will cause problems, but 99 times out of 100, using Time magic to prevent car crashes or a spirit from possessing your wife and eating your children, or even a Vampire seeking revenge by ruining your life is going to turn out fine (although with the last one you still got to fry the leech and his associates, which shouldn't be hard with the proper applications of Time and Space to track them).

>>47141659
>mage
>friends and family
pick one

>>47141674
>Not realizing that having friends and family is one of the key elements of Mage(or any CofD game) that any good ST will play off of to add the Personal Horror element to the game.

>>47141674
Mages have it the easiest out of any major supernatural keeping in contact with their loved ones and keeping them safe. Sure, you might be busy chasing down mysteries, but that doesn't mean you can't read your daughter a bedtime story every one and a while.

>>47141709
>having friends and family is one of the key elements of Mage
that's because it isn't
>that any good ST will play off of to add the Personal Horror element to the game.
>not realizing what personal horror means and still trying to argue it
personal horror comes from within, it does not require outsiders at all and does better without them

there's also the fact that anyone who has awakened knows their family and friends are as real as a fictional character in a tv show, as are the mages' connections with them

>>47141774
>there's also the fact that anyone who has awakened knows their family and friends are as real as a fictional character in a tv show, as are the mages' connections with them

Um... what?

Sleepers are human too, you know. Some Mages like to act like they're more than human, sure, but metaphysically speaking the only difference between a Mage and a Sleeper is that the Mage has a sympathetic connection with one of the Realms Supernal and is no longer subject to the Quiescence. Even MECHANICALLY speaking any Sympathetic Connections you have to your mundane life don't go away when you Awaken. They don't even change in the slightest.

Wait a minute... you aren't a Seer, are you? Because that sounds like Seer talk to me...

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>>47141674
>>47141709
But the Awakened don't get to bring friends to their local Consilium, do they?

>>47141774
>everything you just said
Seer of the Throne confirmed

>>47141844
>Sleepers are human too

You are obviously not a member of the Mysterium or a Seer.

>>47138851
The Queen actually takes her duty as a servant to her country incredibly fucking seriously.

It's her descendants that are the problem.

>>47141757
Wha... what?
Don't most Mages abandon their normal life because it makes them easier to study and target by enemy mages? I mean why take a shadow name if someone can just bug your daughter and school and find out you are named Billy?

Werewolves have it the easiest. If you don't murder your family in first change, nothing is stopping or limiting you from keeping in contact, and you can even bring them into the greater pack, though they won't know everything they are involved in.

>>47141844
Mages have a different soul and mentality than normal humans. The only difference between a Beast and a Mage in monstrosity/humanity is a matter of degree.

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For a Changeling/Promethean crossover game (yes, this is what the ST wants), how ridiculous a concept would an Unfleshed made by a True Fae who made a Fetch a little TOO well be?

>>47142122
Werewolves have it easier than Vampires or Changelings, but being in contact with their families brings them in contact with Spirits and other things that might want a Werewolf to suffer. Sure, Mages suffer the same problem, but Mages are better equipped to protect their families, have a more ordered society with resources they can fall back on, and as shown with Shadow/Sympathetic Names, are better able to compartmentalize their life. A Mage can be both Frank and Zeus, but a Werewolf is always a Werewolf.

>>47142211
True Fae lack the vital spark necessary to create a Promethean. They can only imitate and improvise while creating a Promethean requires inspiration that they lack. It would make more sense for a Fetch to have somehow turned themselves into a Promethean through trying to become human through obsessive experimentation.

>>47142114
What major rulings have been made by the Queen? Renting out your land and being a tourist attraction doesn't make you head of state, it makes you a figurehead.

>>47142229
I disagree. Needing to compartmentalize like that, plus the range of threats of a mage can be attacked by, means keeping your family around is generally dumber as a mage.

A werewolf is not afraid future hitler is going to go back in time and snipe his mother.

Either a spirit (that you will likely be fully aware you pissed off) is going to try to off your family (and being a spirit, he may not even understand your connection to them and won't bother) or Pure are going to try to off your family.

Keep some wolfblooded pack members close to your family. Keep your pack close, protected, and well taken care of, and you are safer than any Mage can reasonably keep their loved ones. Plus a pack is probably always doing this together, instead of a cabal mage trying to keep his own problems off on the side.

>>47142317
If some Mage starts time killing another Mages relatives, it's in the Consilium's best interest to step in, because the resulting changes could hurt Mage society as a whole. Also, you'd have to make another Mage mad enough to want to kill you, while Werewolves make enemies simply through the nature of their existence. A Mage will probably make enemies, while a Werewolf will always make enemies. In many cases, if the Mage or one of their friends knows time magic, they can get a redo on the supernatural portion of their life bleeding over onto the mundane portion. There are absolutely no do-overs with Werewolves.

Spirits are also smarter than your giving them credit for. A Rank 3 spirit is going to be smart enough to identify what a Werewolf cares about even if it doesn't understand why. for non-Mage threats, like spirits and such, you can greatly mitigate the danger by warding the house. If you have reason to believe they are in danger you could cast protective magic on them or bless them with Fate. Werewolves have wards too, but they aren't as easy or convenient.

>>47142317
>>47142535
This is also not taking into account that a Werewolf can make an enemy out of a Mage, because if a Mage starts mucking around in the Shadow or causing other problems, many Werewolves will feel compelled to intervene and suddenly Werewolves are getting Time sniped.

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>>47142229
Untrue.

A werewolf can bring their family into their life. But a mage can't, and increasingly sees less reason to even have them.

>>47142589
More likely they'd just kill the mage.

>>47142122
It depends on the Mage. Most Mages who have very active magical lives tend to keep a distance from their former Sleeping relationships (for their sake), but that doesn't mean you cut off everyone you knew before.

No Mage with a good family is going to refuse to visit Mom and Dad because they're a Mage now. Lots of Mages who were married stay with their Sleeper partners and children after Awakening, though naturally that creates (dramatic and interesting) difficulties.

Mages deliberately create separation between their Magic and Mundane lives to protect the Mundane side, they don't cut it off altogether. Your example doesn't work because how will they know I'm married? Not only do my enemies not know, my Cabalmates might not even know who they are.

>>47142317
Mages don't always do smart things.

Plus you act like Mage life is constant fighting and paranoia all the time - it's really not. Mage society is DESIGNED to keep the right separation between Mundane and Magic life to keep people's Mundane connections safe.

>>47142617
>Taking a Seer as a good example of how a Mage should be.
Lots of Mages aren't egotistical sociopaths, anon.

>>47142617
It is in a Werewolf's interest to cut off contact with their family. The best protection they could have is if no one even knew they had a family. Sure, keep tabs on them using a Wolfblooded or a human member of the pack, but never, ever, make contact. At least that's my experience with Werewolves. My experience with Mages is houses get warded and when shit starts to go down, family members get warded to Hell and back. Time magic makes this easier.

>>47142806
>family members get warded to Hell and back
If you're doing your damn job right, nobody who's a threat to you should know who your family is.
If they know who you're family is, it's easy as shit to find out your Sympathetic Name.

And if they find out your Sympathetic Name, well then it's all over.

>>47142317
>>47142589
Is, uh, traveling back in time some sort of normal tactic in Mage 2e?

>>47143049
No.

>>47142617
That's from Seers of the Throne, and they're infamous for being hubristic dicks. Also, I have to smirk at the idea that apparently commercials work drastically better in WoD than in real life (which is actually 100% plausible).

>>47143049
If you could, would you?

>>47143049
Of course not. It's much easier to cast spell back in time using temporal sympathy.

>>47142617
I've been afraid to say this, but this passage...
>Mages do not lead ordinary lives. Their fascination with the Mysteries does not translate into polite dinner conversation among their Sleeper friends. Their gaze penetrates the Lie that their families cannot overcome, and that makes it difficult for the Wise to connect intellectually with their un-Awakened loved ones.
I know it comes off as pretentious or circlejerky, but Mage is a game about being smarter than everyone off and unable to turn it off. It's about your parents believing the nice politician on the news deserves to be president because he doesn't use bad words, while you know that he wants to commit war crimes in the name of religion and donates to organizations that lobby for the death penalty for gays in foreign countries. It's about seeing those cheap shoes at Walmart or that iPad and realizing how many people worked themselves to death making them so cheaply. It's about knowing that cultural traditions and touchstones are misogynistic or the result of imperialism, and having people get pissed off if you point that out.

Mage is a game about knowing not just what part of the cow goes into the hotdog, it's a game about knowing how the cow was treated to maximize profit.

>>47142793
>Lots of Mages aren't egotistical sociopaths, anon.
No, but they all see the same truth. It's not about being an egotistical sociopath (and most seers aren't that anyhow). This guy gets it
>>47143230
A mage who has an ordinary life with a family while he does mage things at night or whatever is completely missing the point of the game.

>>47142806
>It is in a Werewolf's interest to cut off contact with their family. The best protection they could have is if no one even knew they had a family. Sure, keep tabs on them using a Wolfblooded or a human member of the pack, but never, ever, make contact. At least that's my experience with Werewolves.
You've had some bad experiences that aren't representative of the game
one of the biggest factions of pure would even take offense at the idea of going after someone's family to fuck them up
a family member is more likely a member of the pack, a member all the wolves and other members in the know would act to protect
plus they're protected by the totem

So would Sex be a Mudras Yantra in 2E? I'm asking for story reasons.

>>47143554
Yes. Ritualistic sex has been a pretty common magical practice throughout history. It's only relatively recently that sex became something taboo.

I bet you at least could even use it for Instant speed castings :V

>>47143607
Well I knew it was mage 1E, for thyrsus mages and it even had a benefit. I was just trying to find the best way it should be represented in 2E.

>>47143554

If it's encoded through a Rote, but it could also just be a regular yantra.

>>47143607

>Instant speed castings

Sex Criminals confirmed for secret Mage: The Awakening comic

>>47143230
Right, but that doesn't mean that you immediately cut all of those people out of your life. If you have any empathy, you're going to feel sorry for those people still trapped in the Lie, not think less of them for it. It's not their FAULT, after all.

>>47143335
If you don't see how a Mage struggling to maintain a connection to his Sleeper loved ones while building his Magical identity is pretty much one of the biggest seeds for drama in a Mage chronicle, then I think YOU'RE missing completely missing the point of the game.

>>47143723
Im not so sure about that. Rotes at about movement and physical action. I don't really see any of the other action yantra work for sex. Maybe environment maybe.

>>47143554
I'd probably rule it as working like High Speech; it adds a +2 to the roll, but always takes an instant action separate from the actual casting.

Granted, it has to make sense for the spell in question; you could pull a Melisandre and use it as a Yantra to summon something, or a means of giving life. Hell, it could theoretically even be used as a means of taking life.

There's a lot of options for what it could theoretically be used with. It's all up to your ST, you, and your collective imagination.

>>47143782
If it can only be used in Ritual Casting than you don't have to worry about the actions it takes to do. And I don't see how you could use it in anything but ritual casting...

>>47143807
>Want to summon a shadow demon to attack a Seer
>At the mall
>See an attractive person nearby, convince them to follow you into the bathroom for a quickie
>Cast the spell during the quickie
>Walk out of the bathroom less than 10 minutes later, with said shadow demon hiding in your shadow
>Go find the Seer again, then direct the shadow to it and cross over the Seer's shadow so the demon can hop over, then wait and kill the Seer when they're alone

>>47142153
lol no

Mentality, sure. That's a given. But a different soul? One of the central tenants of the game is that every single human being is capable of Supernal magic, they've just been tricked into believing otherwise. The soul that slumbers in each of us is as meaningful as the soul that resides in a Mage, and any Mage who hasn't yet given up his Wisdom knows that.

>>47143554
Not unless you fluff dirty dancing as an Expression Munda.

Otherwise I'd say it was a location yantra.

Dirty dancing with your fellow Cabal members in a ritual to cast more effectively.
All of the homo.

I want to run a Promethean game in the 70s solely so I can call it Saturnine Night Fever. Does this make me a bad person?

>>47143975
No. It makes you one of the greats.

Does the book explain Oblations somewhere? In the Legacy section is says that Legacy Oblations are like normal Oblations that just don't require a Hallow... but I didn't see rules for normal Oblations at all.

>>47143867
If you look at it, it looks different. It is very similar, but it is not the same. Legacies stretch this even further. Even back in the days of Atlantis, Mages were freaks.

>>47143975
I love it

>>47143735
>>47143782
I was implying it would take the poster only three seconds to bring themselves to orgasm.
Performing a sex act should only work for ritual casting times. Although then you need to keep it up for hours.
Also, in Storm Front (book one of Dresden Files) sex is used for a spell that makes people's hearts explode.

>>47143774
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you suddenly become a reclusive hermit only interacting with other ̶p̶r̶o̶g̶r̶e̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶s̶ Willworkers. Just that it's harder to even want to interact with them. I mean, I love my mom, but that doesn't mean I want to hear about how immigrants steal social security and don't pay taxes when I know that's objectively untrue. And that makes it harder to be around them. We separate from family and friends over ideological divides all the time, and no political or religious affiliation could be a larger hurdle than finding out that literally everything down to base physical laws is a capital-L Lie.

I also don't think that the poster who quoted me is saying that you become a Mage and just give up your family. But it is difficult bordering on impossible to completely and professionally compartmentalize your life and do the whole occult mysteries thing part time. That it's one of the biggest story seeds for drama is sort of the point. You're a danger to your friends and family, and you need to Shadowname up and avoid ruining their lives. You can't be a magical family man.

>>47143867
Mages literally have better Souls than Sleepers. A Sleeping Soul is tainted by the Abyss and impure. Awakening to one of the Watchtowers transmutes the Lead into Gold. This is why many Reapers are Banishers as well.

>>47144170
Ctrl+F Oblation
It's an hour long action that lets you restore Mana from outside of a Hallow.

>>47144170
Page 87 for the mechanics

>>47144193
Right, a Mage is capable of shaping their soul into something greater because they've Awakened—but it's still the same soul they've always had. And they should realize that any Sleeper could do the exact same thing if they Awakened too. Awakening doesn't give you something you didn't already have, it simply dusts off your soul and shows you how to use it.

My point is that Mages aren't inhuman. They're not more than human, either. Many definitely THINK they are—but that sort of thinking is what leads to Wisdom loss.

>>47144353
Thank you!

>>47144402
If anything, they're Mages BECAUSE they're human - other Supernatural types are incapable of Awakening, remember.

>>47144546
Vampires cannot become werewolves. Vampires must be humans.

>>47144556
And on that note, Mages can become Vampires. Hell, the Tremere even DID become Vampires, there for a while, as was mentioned in a recent thread.

>>47144858
It was also noted that it was HIGHLY unusual, and even more unusual that they stopped being vampires.

If you removed a Mage's soul, could you turn him into a Vampire?

Questions of why aside, is it possible?

>>47139319
>Underground Overground
Tell me, does London have a Lodge of Iron Masters centered on it?

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>>47139871
BWARGH!

>>47145020
That's... a good question. And a great Mystery for a Reaper to study! Sounds like the kind of experiment a Tremere would do.

I would say yes, but that's because My theory is that when someone is embraced their Soul passes on and is replaced by whatever the Beast is. So a soulless Mage, lacking the protection their Awakened soul usually gives them against being Embraced, would become a Vampire. But that's totally my ruling, I don't think there is (or will be) and official answer.

>>47144858
They can't (barring the Tremere, which were a special case - I don't think the Theban was a normal Vampire.)

A Mage's Awakened Soul protects them from the Embrace - or, more accurately, a Mage will just die if you try to Embrace them, it automatically fails.

>>47145099
I like to think that Vampirism is an affliction of the soul.

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Okay so I haven't looked at a cod general since a bit before Mage 2e came out... Has there been a shit show over this yet?

>>47145166
Not really.
People have always known the Free Council were gigantic faggots.

>>47145166
A bunch of people were banging on about how it was 'problematic' over on the OPP forums.

Just no pleasing some people, I guess

>>47145166
People who would complain about that were too busy complaining about the Muslim women and transgender acceptance. Gay pride is old hat. Plus, bondage wizards are canon.
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/cod/mtaw/LegacyWhB.html

tl;dr: no one cares, it's not a shitshow, grow up.

>>47145256
Man my only problem with it is like, man, that's some flagrant shit fampai. Why people gotta be so loud about their creepy sex stuff an shit dood, I don't go around talkin' about how much I like futa or loli :V

>>47145298
Well the Muslim woman doesn't look all that great, but that's my only complaint really.

>>47145166
>>47145256

The reaction was surprisingly mild. Except for a minor stray comment or two on /wodg/, there was only one thread on the OP forums. Some people believed it was a foolish and limited representation of the Free Council. Others complained that the art wasn't "inclusive" enough and wished it was a better representation of of the entirety of gay culture.

The only real heated arguments or complaints I've seen about Mage 2e was whether Time is now the most powerful Arcanum, and why no one has killed baby Hitler.

>>47145339
Well that's good, only really asked because well... Come on man, I've seen how these threads can go sometimes.

>>47145337

She looks better than the mutants and jawa in the Adamantine Arrow art on p. 37.

>>47145363
Yeeeeah, everything but Mysterium is a huuuuuge miss on the art end, like some of them might be fitting but holy fuck are they all ugly.

>>47145099
I thought that theory was explicitly true.

>>47145339
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/882074-the-free-council-graphic-and-lgbt-representation

Granted, it's not as bad as I made out. It's just weird to see people gunning for that sort of thing as though a niche product in a niche hobby is going to be the fulcrum of social change and needs to be scrutinized as such.

>>47145356

The art for the Free Council is a little goofy and not the best illustration of the Order, but few have gotten offended by some blatantly gay stuff since the 1990's. The SJW issue du jour is the transgender and pronoun material.

Besides, there's actual setting and rules material to argue about that has priority over the art.

guys Ive had a copy of nWoD Mage 1e and Vampire 1e. should I persist in trying to get a game going? Ive already adjusted stuff thats been changed in 2e but everyones saying that oWoD is better. Should I just invest in the Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anni edition?

With how varied a place the Astral is, why is it that only goetia representing fears decide to merge with human beings and become Beasts?

>>47145444

It's a matter of taste; I personally loathe oWoD, for instance. You may have more success recruiting people if you make the move up to 2e, though.

>>47145421

There are people who think about little else but certain issues, often of a left-wing social nature. No matter the topic or context, they'll comment.

Considering the past arguments about some of the material in WW books, the Libertine gay pride parade art is far more odd or amusing than offensive or terribly controversial.

>>47145387

I thought the Seers of the Throne art wasn't too bad. I agree with the posters on the OP forum who observed it had a nice Eyes Wide Shit vibe.

>>47145535
I think it's fitting for them, hell it was the only reason I said some fit the order, but man it's wonky.

Also I've never seen Eyes Wide Shut, should I watch it?

>>47145474
Because the rest of the time it just results in someone being Claimed.

Beasts are "special".

>>47145555

It's hardly the best movie you'll ever watch, but it isn't too bad if you're in the mood for a little 1990's Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman.

>>47145307
Free Council is all about ingratiating itself into fringe Sleeper subcultures.

>>47145337
Looks fine to me. I think she's also the one talking about how she can sever connections, in the main write up.

>>47145339
>Others complained that the art wasn't "inclusive" enough and wished it was a better representation of of the entirety of gay culture.
I just don't like leather daddies.

>>47145421
>Anyone who believes hookers and blow are incompatible or inconsistent with ruling the world obviously never lived through the 1980's and 90's.
Hue. Why do we hate Branford?
I bet he's like 23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL18kdFYITg
Have any of your characters gotten high on shrooms during a chronicle?

>>47145614
>>47145474
Because Fear IS special, for the same reason that vice is special. It's the World of Darkness, and that part is one where it's dark. Hell, that might even be true of the real world. Fear is primal. Everything with a brain experiences fear. And the Horrors are embodiments of that fear.

>>47145444
Anyone telling you oWoD is better has objectively terrible taste.

>>47145813
Not shrooms, specifically, but my Werewolf game's Ithaeur decided to take the Siskur-Dah rite, and it involved drinking a bottle full of hallucinogens.

>>47145863
I'd love to see a peyote fuelled Siskur-duh on a group spiritual hallucination. Maybe a spirit of bad trips that is causing deaths or some shit. I dunno man.

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>reading Mage 2e
>liking it, made me actually stop hating Mage
>tfw they took away the only thing I ever loved from Mage 1e
>tfw Obrimos are no longer pimp niggas

>>47145785

Aspel, I'm surprised leather daddies aren't your thing.

Also, who is "branford," why should we hate him, and why are you stalking him?

>>47145907

Mage Noir was the book that made me stop hating Mage, and then Dark Eras was incredible. I don't know what it is, but the modern day stuff just has none of the same hook and my attention just drops off.

>>47145937
Aspel is more interested in being in bad relationships and having sex with disgusting things.

>>47145879
>spirit of bad trips
So is that like a Spirit of Hangovers, or what?

>>47145970
I'm not sure if I'd call it a 'hangover', more like a spirit of having your mind going through sensation altering trips that really fuck you up. Or in really extreme cases, cause severe mental issues.

>>47145948
Modern settings are just to unfocussed.
And Mage has one of the widest lenses out of all of the books.

>>47145937
I don't mind daddies. I'm just not fond of leather daddies. Also, Branford is the poster I quoted from that thread. I actually have no idea who he is, other than people accuse random posters of being him. I've been told he's my archenemy or something?

>>47145964
Least it isn't cartoony shit like hyper dicks and big belly same size vore :V

File: Beyond Anger.jpg (82KB, 319x541px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 319x541px

All the talk of Mages and humanity made me realize what my real problem with Mage is and has always been. It's the same old human supremacy powerwank bullshit that shows up in every work of fiction. I hate how becoming a Vampire or Werewolf is a fucking bronze trophy (if you're looking for a silver lining in the dark cloud that is now your life) because they aren't "human." At least the unwashed masses who you are now forever separate from have the chance to someday Awaken.

I can see the horror in Mage, I really can, but it galls me that people will say being a Mage is as bad if not worse than being anything else when they know full well they would chew off their own leg to slip the shackles of the Lie. Yeah, the truth can be ugly, and poking around in the dark could mean the end of yourself and everyone you hold dear, but Vampires don't know shit and they're forced to dig around. Werewolves know more, but while Vampires are doomed to hide from the sun and watch their loved ones grow old and die from afar, 90% of Uratha are doomed to either die young while the others will grow into something that can barely even relate with humans.

Woo, that felt good to get off my chest.

>>47146097
And that's why Mage is urban fantasy rathe than real orror - given the choice any rational person would take the Mag offer in a heartbeat

>>47146089
Hey man I ain't sayin' its wrong, not allowed to kink shame remember.

>>47146097
>>47146112
It's almost as if the people the game is written for are human.

Mages don't have it worse because THEY are worse. They have it worse because Mage is the horror of impotent knowledge. Your problem is assuming that Mage is the SAME type of Horror as Vampire or Werewolf. Hell, it's not like being a Werewolf is even that bad other than the potential for Kuruth. This isn't Apocalypse, where you're going to die young in the meatgrinder fighting the Wyrm.

>>47146126
Fuck the polees. Besides, shame is hot.

>>47146167
My dude I'll never disagree with you on that, I talk with este all the time after all.

>>47146167
>They have it worse because Mage is the horror of impotent knowledge.

"oh no, I can fart gold coins and fly, woe is me for the world is run by tyrant gods who dont really give a shit"

>>47146203
And you are just another troll, good to know.

>>47146203
Just use matter 4 and buy cheap gold, raise it's purity/karat raiting then use another spell to double the size of the gold an sell it. fuck coins.