Pathfinder General - /pfg/ What is the best 1pp martial cla

I like monk. Max fist.

>>47122874
They've tried so hard to 'fix' monks with archetypes. I agree, though, they're fun.

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>>47122840
>implying

>>47122931
Who's the Smite magnet?

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>>47122931
Oh shit, immediately best character

>>47122716

So basically the point is that double weapon are just inferior longswords/axes/flails?

>>47122840
Barbarian is arguably good too, though if your DM is shit with loot paladin has a decent option in divine bonded weapon.

TWF while usually a trap option can be used to smite the SHIT out of evil.

Immunity to fear, charm and diseases, 'free' healing, mercies, spellcasting, full BAB, two good saves (one of them will!), bonuses to saves.

In short the paladin gets a lot of utility, which is unusual for most martials.

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>>47122840
I'm partial to bloodrager, though sometimes, good ol' invulnerable rager barbarian is just a grand old time for just wanting fat numbers.

>>47122931
>>47122950
Is that a Gray Paladin?

The concept is interesting, it's nice to have something that targets neutrals.

>real thread got smited
How disappointing.

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>>47123000
I told them to worry about the Lower Planes.

They never even got time to repent

>>47122950
>>47122994
>not recognizing Anti the Antipaladin
>implying Gray Paladin deserves artwork, or anything more than mockery

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If you add PoW mechanics to 1pp martials, what that make them objectively the best?

Why don't the DSP devs give full initiating to 1pp martials?

>>47123025
The only reason I jumped to Grey because the file name.

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>>47122985
I miss the gba era crits, they were so silly they were incredible

If 1pp martials inherently come with PoW mechanics, would that make them objectively the best?

$
Why don't the DSP devs give full initiating to 1pp martials?

>>47122970
Pathfinder (still) suffers from ivory tower design, wherein there are deliberately bad options put out there. Martials tend to be some of the bad options. Two weapon fighting is extremely feat intensive and also generally a bad option.

You *might* be able to get a decent TWF build out of something like a paladin with smite evil (and divine bond weapon), but generally TWF is bad.

>>47123067
>>47123027
You can just make one post senpai

>>47123067
Because it makes the MASSIVE FUCKING POWER JUMP even more egregious.

>>47122840
Paladins are fucking great.

>>tfw will never play a gestalt paladin/oracle

I know that the oradin almost always goes with the life mystery, so they can get life link and absorb some damage from other people before spamming heals on themselves. I really like the look of the lore mystery though. Is there a way to take the lore mystery but choose a revelation from another mystery (in this case, life link from the life mystery)?

Also, is full oracle up one side, 2 mindchemist/X paladin a good shout? Perfect recall from the mindchemist means you add twice your CHA mod to knowledge checks for two levels, and you also get a +4 bonus to CHA that lasts for 20 minutes, effectively increasing yours saves, spell DCs but reducing max health slightly. Not to worry though since you're survivable as hell (heavy armour, CHA to AC), and can heal yourself as a swift action.

>>47123078
Sorry, post got eaten

>>47123080
They at least deserve nice things

>>47123077
TWF works strongest the more individual bonuses you can stack on to each attack.

Things like Smite, Challenge, Sneak Attack, and other things that can leverage a hefty amount of damage are what make it shine if you've got the feats to spare.

>>47123095
They do get nice things, unless they're fighter.

>>47123092
I'm actually thinking of convincing my GM to institute gestalt when we hit epic levels. And I'm already partly Paladin with great CHA, so Oracle is the best choice.
Considering epic levels should be harder to achieve than normal levels, I feel it's an interesting trade-off.

>>47123095
Yeah, and there are ways to add initiating with feats and archetypes. It'd just be a bit much to give them free initiating (plus, if people were playing the same class without choosing initiating, they'd be a flat downgrade).

Let's not descend to Paizo's level. Beat them by designing better.

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>>47123095
>Initiating
>Nice

AHAHAHAHAHA

>>47123122
>>47123141
>>47123147
But they scale well at well, and are essentially are what amounts to one-trick ponies, giving them full access to manuevers and shit will make them versatile

>>47123174
they don't* scale well at all
FFS

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Hello, yes, we are humans

>>47123174
6th level initiating is fine, christ.

Are you one of those people who thinks that less than full 9-level casting is worthless too?

>>47123204
But they do.
>maneuvers
>mattering
Anon, no. Full attack is still what matters the most for 'initiators' because DSP is terrified of making strikes worthwhile. Stances are about all that really matter, and as stated, you can get feats for all of that just fine.

>>47123226
Those look cool. What are they?

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>>47123241
>>47123245
This is why martials are still lacking

>>47123288
But they aren't. Paladins and Barbarians can go toe-to-toe with, and shrek, initiators just fine without a single maneuver or stance to their name.

>>47123319
Thus once again proving that strikes need actual power behind them, because full attacks still win.

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Sup

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How would you play a stealthy pirate, /pfg/?

Assume any 3pp options and gestalt rules are available.

>>47123319
The biggest cause of 'vanilla martials suck' talk is Fighters.

A lot of them are viable. Paladins are good. Barbarians are good. Heck, even Cavaliers do alright for themselves. Fighters are just... lackluster. They were likely the first thing looked at in the swap to PF, still had the 3.5 mentality of 'fuck class features', were done in like a day, and then never looked at again.

>>47123341
So what, regardless of what they can do, no vanilla martial is allowed to even THINK of standing up to an Initiator?

Fuck off.

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>>47123392
>stealthy pirate

Pic related.

Stalker (privateer), whatever else you like for gestalt.

>>47123319
It isn't just about damage though, 1pp martials are rightly based damage dealers, it's all the other things

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Why the fuck does this thing have legs?

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Tell me, /pfg/! What happens on your character's birthday?

>>47123413
Define 'other things'.

>>47123410
Given that initiators literal purpose is to replace and surpass vanilla martials, due to vanilla martials being shithouse and being bad at anything that isn't pure damage and still being pretty meh at that? Yeah, initiators SHOULD be able to whip their shit with no problems.

>>47123278
Humans. Can't you read?

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Caught in a bad necromance.

>>47122840
Is there a way to get dex to damage on thrown weapons? I was gonna make a small sized chucker

>>47123454
PoW wasn't designed 'to be better than vanilla martials', it was designed to be competent. Barbarians and Paladins are competent, so they're fine.

Don't get salty just because paizo actually did something right once upon a motherfucking time.

>>47123436
So it can kick your ass, anon.

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>>47123475
Hey bb, wanna netflix and chill?

>>47123436
All the better to kick you with.

>>47123454
Stop samefagging and attacking yourself.

>>47123475
DAAAAAAAAMNpir

>>47123141
>I'm actually thinking of convincing my GM to institute gestalt when we hit epic levels.

That would be really fun, especially since being gestalt only increases the party's effective 'CR' by 1 or 2 due to action economy still being a thing.

Oracle and Paladin mesh so well together. Unfortunately there isn't an easy way I can see to get CHA to hit (on non-evil enemies of course), or use CHA for more things apart from saves (divine grace, paladin) or AC (sidestep secret, oracle).

If you are an elf or half-elf I'd highly recommend looking at the ancient lorekeeper archetype for oracle. Choose a spell from the wizard list (one level lower than the highest level oracle spell you can cast), and add it to your spells known at every even level except 20. These spells replace the bonus ones associated with mysteries.

Free divination spells thanks to blood money? Done. Haste? Done. Charm spells? Done.

>>47123141
It's not really gestalt if you're just taking levels in another class post-20.

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This ninja looks fucking great

>>47123570
Nothing says inconspicuous like a full blown weeaboo ninja halloween costume. No one would ever suspect you to be a competent assassin I guess.

>>47123446
Aw, that's cute.

And she spends her birthday like she spends her normal days, banging

>>47123508
I can't imagine how empty and lonely 4chan would feel if this stopped.

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I'm currently playing a cleric in pathfinder for the first time and I was wondering if there were more options to play a reach heal cleric? My character turned out rather squishy so they don't have the capability to survive long in direct combat.

Channel energy seems to have the distance but rarely puts out enough HP to count as life saving compared to the touch healing spells. With turn undead not in pathfinder for metamagic feats, I've heard metamagic isn't the best option and to instead use a metamagic rod instead. Aside from that the spell sacred bond is the only other option I've found to help heal a party member from a distance but that only really works for one other character.

Are there any other good options to heal without getting too close to combat?

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>>47123446
We have special eats. No cakes or anything like that, just a favorite food.

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>>47123278
Humans bruh, just how this is also human

>>47123829
Life oracle.

>>47123000
>>47106528
The fuck happened to the old therad?

>>47123893
At the end of that thread, two new threads were posted. One was about Paladins, one was about like, evil something.

People came to paladinthread since it was posted first, and the evil thread got smoten.

>>47123660
It's not about the weaboo costume, it's about not being identified.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdHX6WAfG9A&t=16m50s

example - two guys from kogan ryu sword school are sent by their sensei to kill two guys from funaki sword school who specialize in 'helmet cutting' (basically improved sunders). Their sensei's hate each other (having been forced to duel by their lord before) and the kogan man who brings back the head(s) of their opponents will be made heir... the intention being that one of them will die.

kogan specializes in a swing that ends up holding the sword by only the thumb and first finger, giving them extra reach on a lung... and something of an improved initiative

At this point in time, a lot of samurai were forbidden from dueling by their lords, thus disguises were worn when they went to murder rivals.

>>47123446

He gets a special letter from his parents, wishing him happiness and success and wondering if maybe he's had enough adventuring and would like to come home and settle down. A small lemon cake is included. He also gets a rather haphazardly-assembled homemade card from his many younger siblings, wishing him a happy birthday and typically containing a drawing of him riding his robo-mount fighting a giant monster.

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>>47123226
>>47123278
>>47123468
Go say hi to your Uncle Joe, kids

>>47124041
>Greetings, Undead Warrior...

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>>47124056
Ahh, it was you who rang the bells of awakening, was it not?

>>47123027
There are archetypes for that.

>>47123829
Feat into familiar.

>>47124041
>>47124145
"Dragon-jesus fuck what is that?"

https://youtu.be/u0yuDfcOhvA?t=6m53s

>>47123452
Specifically out of combat

>>47124145
>>47124041
>>47123842
>>47123436
>>47123226
>>47122965
>>47122931
Excuse me, this is a paladin thread, fuck off with your spooky bullyshit

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>>47124273

>>47124273
How can they be paladins without spooky shit to fight?

>>47124323
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/shoggoth.html#shoggoth

>>47124323
That poor starfish

>>47123392
Well, your picture is clearly a Privateer Warlord who went into the Daring Hero Prestige Class

>>47124194
I'm fuckin' dying

>>47122840
Would a Solid Snake/Big Boss character work better as a Slayer or a Ranger? Slayer seems interesting, I'm just iffy on using it for ranged since that basically prevents me from ever using Sneak Attack. Is there a way to reliably get ranged sneak attacks on Slayer?

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>>47124337
A paladin is just as much a paladin in peacetime as wartime, my friend. Perhaps more.

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Asking again because I didn't get an answer last thread.

My Knight Disciple Paladin wants to join the Scales of Mourning Tradition, and its a Golarion based game. What is the best way to include the Tradition into Golarion, and where could both it and the Discipline most likely arise from in Golarion

>inb4 use the Trait
Already using it to get Eternal Guardian

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>>47124391
I hate to be the one to just immediately jump to DSP, but Stalker might be the right choice for you.

Good stealth, access to the Rogue talents, and a sneak attack analog that isn't affected by ranged (and can be more reliably proc'd)

That said, the answer for the question you ask, probably Slayer. I'm not sure about reliable ways, without some dedicated flankers. There are a few archetypes you might be able to cohort into, or convince your partners to take.

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>>47123027
>That weapon

Is she going to summon the Dragonzord?

>>47124391
You can sneak at 30ft, and there are both Rogue Talents and Goggles of Sniping to extend this.

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>>47124418
I wish I could help you, anon, but I honestly can't find any info on the Scales of Mourning Tradition. I'm certain I've seen that name, but I can't find it in my google docs.

Can you link me to it, or provide some info?

Also, are you asking for mechanical means, or a setting reason?

>>47124451
Alright, thanks. Slayer seemed like the better choice, since Studied Target is more adaptive/target based than Favored Enemy. And luckily, it seems like their Slayer Talents can add the things I liked from Ranger into Slayer (Favored Terrain, and I think Combat Styles as well)
I was somewhat hoping for an archetype that swapped out Sneak Attack, but no dice.

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>>47124194

>That entire Seathe segment

>>47124537
It's in Lords of the Night and is associated with Unquiet Grave. They're an organization dedicated to preserving the relative balance of positive and negative energy after they turned off entropy on their home island and it turned out to be a really shitty fucking idea.

>>47124695
"Then again... her tail's awfully fluffy though..."

>>47124537
It's from Lords of the Night. I'll post caps as soon as my internet works on my laptop

>>47124760
>>47124695

How's it feeeeeel, Seathe?

To be forever alone...

>>47124803
>>47124760
"This one guy and this bird are gettin' along real good... like, REALLY good... a LOT."

>GMing Iron Gods, currently in book 3
>after awhile, the necromancer player in the party befriends redfang and he tells her his story
>decides to bring back one of his dead wives as an undead
>eventually brings her to the high home after a few days
>redfang is horrified and orders the party to leave town or he'll hunt them down, seeing as how raising the dead is probably not very acceptable in a village that worships erastil
>says to leave peacefully, and if they don't leave peacefully in the morning he'll destroy the technological items they left with him in the high home
>the kineticist, upon hearing he may or may not lose gear for openly dealing with a necromancer threatens to kill redfang if he gets rid of their items
>the druid seems to have no problem with any of this as the entire town is being polluted by poisonous gas infecting their water
>the mesmerist, the only sensible member of the party who could sort all of this out is currently knocked out from having nearly 0 CON from bad rolls against the poison gas from the Aurora's wreck
So how was your session?

I'm trying to make the world's most retarded wizard. Does anyone have a homebrew race with -4 INT?

>>47124862
All wizards with Int below 10 will play identically (ie not have anything to do ever).

>>47124826

At least we know what Plague's into, now.

>>47124696
>>47124789
Ah, that's why it didn't show up to google or pfsrd or google docs. But I do love unquiet grave, I just never had the means to play it so I never really looked at their tradition.

Semi-immortals, right?


>>47124789
I'm sure some people here would appreciate that, I have the pdf, I just never looked at the tradition closely

>>47124418
Honestly, I feel like the Traditions provide good lore and background/inspiration, but the lore shouldn't be a hindrance to their institution. For example, I play a Paladin to an Empyreal Lord, and Silver Crane is the martial art they teach in Heaven to the Celestial Legions and several official Paladin Orders. I co-opted the oath (replacing my patron's name with the solar who invented Silver Crane).

Just look for an analog opportunity in world. Age old vampire or necromancer martial who developed their art and taught it when they grew bored of hiding away in enlightenment, or the army they taught it to dissolved, or the notes were discovered and corrupted the slayers who killed them.

If you're looking for a mechanical way, I'm honestly not familiar with more traditions past taking multiclassing or the trait. Just chat with your GM. There are no rules for retraining PoW, but an appropriate stretch of time and money should cover it in my opinion. After all, you're not getting the side benefits of the tradition, so there's no real reason why not.

>>47124904
Yeah but I want him to be useless AND retarded. Like "one step away from vegetable" retarded.

>>47124910
We've known for ages bro. He doesn't exactly make a secret of it.

>>47123080
>>47123241
>>47123245
>>47123319
>>47123341
>>47123410
>>47123413
>>47123454
>>47123490
Get outta here Paizodrones and DSP shills

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>>47124927
You're paralyzed and/or braindead at 0 INT, I'm pretty sure you can't talk unless you have at least 3.

Just give him INT drain as low as you like. It's a thing that happens to people.
Pic related is how

>>47123446
She gets nothing. The Inquisiton doesn't /do/ birthdays, and her vampire mom doesn't even know she's still alive.

Also she doesn't remember her own birthday.

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>>47124949
But there will be no one left, anon!

I just love this game, Paizo can be derpy, but I love both DSP and Paizo

>>47123490
>PoW wasn't designed 'to be better than vanilla martials', it was designed to be competent.

The two parts of that sentence contradict each other.

Here's a question, was there an official ruling on what happens if a character is subjected to multiple (5+) identical magical attacks in a round that they have to save versus? Google is not pulling up anything.

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>>47123446
Character 1: He hasn't been adventuring long enough to have had a birthday while out and about. Up to a while ago, he would've requested time off to see his family in their magically warded nation to see his semi-girlfriend and his parents.

Character 2: I'm pretty sure he doesn't know what day his birthday is, and it wouldn't matter much. He'd probably offer another prayer to his patron to thank him for giving him a life worth living.

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>>47124976
Why wouldn't they have to save against each instance? They are separate attacks, right?

>>47124976
There are competent Paizo martials, as much as you might wanna argue otherwise.

And why would that need some special kinda ruling? They've gotten hit with 5+ things in a round, what you wanna make it worse?

>>47125021
>And why would that need some special kinda ruling? They've gotten hit with 5+ things in a round, what you wanna make it worse?

No, better. Expecting someone to roll something 5 times and expecting them to not fail once is retarded.

>>47125034
Well that's what happens if something's getting whacked 5+ times in one round.

Spoilers, it FUCKING SUCKS.

>>47124946

We've always known he's into some weird shit, but I never knew he was specifically into sexy bird-women.

>>47125034
Well, if you want a ruling, you can always make one yourself.

Take getting five syringes of the same poison in you. Maybe you need to make one realllllly hard saving throw.

But getting shoved by five different people is different. Each one could throw you down, if anything, being shoved so much would make it harder to brace against any of them.

So there can't be an individual ruling.

>>47125075
Sexy snakeladies too.

A man after my own heart.

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>>47125081
>But getting shoved by five different people is different. Each one could throw you down, if anything, being shoved so much would make it harder to brace against any of them.

Getting shoved by five different people is bullying, anon.

Please no bully.

Can you perform a short charge after getting up from prone? I can't remember what the conditions for being able to do that are.

>>47125105

Not even if they're really cute and they get adorably flustered really easily?

>>47125130
Nevermind, I just found the rule and it's for when you can only take a standard action in your whole turn.

>>47125150
That's even worse. They should know better than to do that.

>>47125052

There's a difference between getting hit 5 times a round, and making 5 saving throws, missing one will remove your character from the combat permanently. I think you know this and are being difficult on purpose.

>>47125207
Surprise surprise, getting hit with 5 save or dies in one round REALLY SUCKS.

What's going on, you got a party of wizards who bury everything in SoDs or what?

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Good day, /pfg/
This is my 8th iteration of the Fighter's fix I am working on.

I call it the Fighter's Focus
The concept is based off Fighters being the 'dabbler' class who studies in other fields in order to complement their unique martial style.

Its an additional set of options, on top of their bonus feats to make the fighter a more unique class or at least a class with their own unique niche based on the focus they take. Please give me your feedback and criticism - its highly appreciated

http://pastebin.com/ZqYaxS0a

>>47123845
While that does have interesting options. That still doesn't help with healing from range unfortunately.

>>47125253
Go be a Vitalist.

>>47125230
>be Half-Elf Inquis
>+20 or more to all saves at Level 10 thanks to handy-dandy Solo Tactics and a Wand of Summon Monster, Judgement of Purity, and standard buffs

>>47125199

What if the bullies ARE the cute and easily-flustered ones, and the guy they're trying to push is bigger and stronger than all of them put together, and their inability to push him around makes them even more flustered?

>>47125253
Life Oracle's Life Link is either short or medium range, and they can then heal themselves, safely outside of combat.

Oradins can swift action LoH themselves while doing the same thing, and aren't squishy to begin with.

>>47125230

No, DMs who throw 10-15 identical monsters with either spells or SLAs that constantly incapacitate the entire party. And I am positive I read something that suggested a different ruling that would instead apply a penalty to one save rather than require 15 successful saving throws in a row in one round.

>>47125321
Well then that's a DM being a massive cunt, which is a separate problem. They clearly want you fucking dead, and wouldn't consent to using an alternate ruling that could potentially result in you NOT being fucking dead.

>>47125249
>Unless with the DM's prerogative, they may not take several Fighter's Focus with the same level requisites.

Damn it. So many good options in here.
Particularly:
Ascetic 2
Wilderness 4
Wilderness 6
Wilderness 8
Ascetic 10

its a pretty solid way to make the fighter hilariously stronger than most martials.

>>47125301

That's just adorable, anon.

>>47125301
That's the worst of all. I'm getting sick to my stomach now. I just want to kill all of them for not picking on somebody their own size.

>>47125321
That's only a rule for poison, to my knowledge.

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>>47125105
yes bully

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>>47125272
Life Spherecaster master race REEEEEE

>>47125569

This raises an excellent question:

Have you ever yes bully in a game?

>>47125583
dumb spheresposter
end yourself

>>47125337

Yeah, I was afraid of that, actually.

>>47125301

I had a RL shortstack try to domme me one time. It was kind of like that.

>>47123067
because 1pp martials have class features that let them outdamage initiators.
if barbarians and paladins had full maneuver usage, they would overpower warlords and stalkers every time.

>>47125312
Been looking into oradins and they seem pretty great. If I hadn't already played a few levels as a cleric I would definitely try one of those builds. Gonna have to remember that for another session.

>>47125892
What's so bad about that?

>>47123392
Stalker (Privateer/Vigilante)//Beguiler

>>47125998
PoW already does way too much damage is what's wrong.

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>be warforged brawler
>be outcasted by all races due to robot and attacked by bandits constantly due to valuable armor
>gain a foul temperament and decide to kill any and all bandits I come across
>meet party at a funeral for the one human who was a bro to me
>the party's chill except for the sorceror, who is stupid as bricks, a literal redneck, a glutton, and a thief
>Spends all his nights trying to crawl into trees and talking to his imaginary friends
>never catch him stealing in front of me, so I can't pummel him, nevertheless I hate his guts
>He hates mine too because I'm an emotionless killing machine
>while in a dungeon, fucker makes the mistake of casting burning hands on me to get the 2 skeletons I was going after
>party convinces me not to pummel his face in since we needed him, but his fate is set in stone now

so /tg/, how do I do it? How do I beat the shit out of him completely and absolutely next time he tries this shit? We just hit level 4 in the campaign, and we'll no doubt be 6 soon enough. I was thinking of just grappling him and strangling his tiny sorceror neck.

>>47125593
With my Intimidate-focused half-orc archaeologist bard?
All the time.

>>47126198
Anon, Privateer and Vigilante don't stack.

>>47126239
Push him into a gelatinous cube. Make it look like an accident

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Don't hide it from me, DM
Tell me about why are you browsing /pfg/ instead of working on your campaign?

>>47125300
Tell me more about this build, anon.

Inquisitor interests me. What solo tactics feat/buffs?

>>47124857
Your necromancer sounds autistic.

>>47126392
Its been a long, hard day at work, anon.

>>47126392

Because now and again, someone says something awesome and/or funny and I can lovingly rip it off.

>>47126357
It's funny you say that: the GM deployed a acid slime to try and fuck me over since the skeletons couldn't get past my massive fists. The former bro of the party, a wereboar, volunteered to go to frontlines instead of me, since that thing would eat my face in an instant. He was sucked into the cube while the rest of us threw bombs and shit at it, and was promptly dissolved. RIP pigbro; the sorceror didn't want to expend spells to save you.

>>47126345
Oh, in that case, Stalker(Privateer)//Slayer

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>>47126392
>mfw my players all have plans on a saturday night

Is there any way to get CHA to the monks' ki pool + abilities instead of WIS? I know its not as good technically but it would be great for the character I have in mind

>>47126497

And they didn't invite you?

The nerve of some people.

>>47126392
Because I require an editor for like half my shit.

seriously, it helps so much when you're writing.

>>47126532
its okay.
I'll kill them all next week.

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>>47126606
Now you're playing with rage

>>47126588

Speaking of, anything you need us to relentlessly mock?

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>>47126606
good night players, good work, I'll most likely kill you in the next session

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAOipWp84io

>>47126665
Not quite yet.

>>47126606
>I'll kill them all next week

You mean their characters, r-right?

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I'm running on 4 hours of sleep, and I'd rather shitpost than be productive or sleep.

I should probably sleep.

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>>47126694
.
.
.
.
.
Sure, anon.

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Can I use PF to run a game in folkloric America?

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>>47126697

Well, tomorrow IS Saturday.

>>47126726

With a fuckton of work, sure. But it won't be easy, and it won't be pretty-PF runs best at high-fantasy speeds.

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I homebrewed batpeople
http://pastebin.com/pEvEZsSV

Tell me what you think, /pfg/

>>47123957
That's the most weeaboo paragraph I've ever bothered to read

>>47126392
Sunday game got canceled :^)

>>47126788
Camazotz
Medium Sized Homebrew Batfolk Race

a Humanoid Race exhibiting bat-like appearances and traits. They are often shunned from towns for being falsely associated with vampires. They find solace in their camaraderie with Tieflings, Strix and Dhampirs who share their same ostracized fate.

Racial Ability Scores:
Camazotz are deft, intelligent creatures of the night, but their lithe aerodynamic bodies leaves little to muscular growth. They gain a +2 to both Dexterity and Intelligence, but a -2 to Strength.

Base Speed: Camazotz have a base speed of 30 feet on land. They also possess a fly speed of 60 feet (average).

Feats and Skill Racial Traits
Nocturnal: Camazotz gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception and Stealth checks in dim light or darkness.

Senses Racial Traits
Blindsight 60ft: Camazotz's eyesight are particularly bad that they automatically fail any Perception checks made to identify visual cues. However, they possess exceptional hearing and echolocation which allows them to automatically pass any Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, rendering invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment irrelevant provided that it has line of effect to that creature.

Offensive Racial Traits
Vampire Bat: Though Camazotz are not associated with vampires, their bat-like features still grants them a bite attack that deals 1d4 damage and 2 points of bleed damage.

Alternate Racial Traits
Fruit Bat: Some Camazotz adopt a more omnivorous diet which includes fruits and berries. They gain the Scent Racial ability. This racial trait replaces Vampire Bat.

Frightening: Camazotz, with their often mistaken association with vampires, impose a particularly menacing visage and use this to their advantage, gaining a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks. This racial trait replaces nocturnal.

>>47126392
Because I already told my players we'll be playing rocket tag this week. Bring their best characters and I'll run a gladiator-style gauntlet of powerful baddies against them.

No plot. Just combat.

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>>47126795
You're the most weaboo paragraph I've ever bothered to read!

>>47126788

>+2 Dex/Int, -2 STR

Caster or dextodam, huh? I can dig it.

>60 ft Fly/60 ft Blindsight

Hm. Fly at Character Creation is always a tricky matter, but 60 ft? You can outpace just about anyone with speed like that. Plus, automatic detection within your fly range? That's some pretty potent stuff-might want to dial it back a bit.

>Bleed damage bite

Might pack a bit too much punch early-game.

>>47126497

You'd have plans too if you posted Best Girl Mero instead of weirdo genki Snek.

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>>47127055
>fishfag
>hating snek

Your Waifu Is SHIT

>>47127199

What if I told you the only reason I chose Mero as best girl is because Yukio and Luz are already taken?

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Say you had an ability or feature that added on a flat amount of elemental damage?

Would that crit like most added flat amounts to damage?

>>47127345
No

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>>47123446
>No one else noticed or remembered
>He was refitting his railguns, alone, in a lab
>In other words neither did he.

>>47127030
>Bleed damage
>Relevant
Cmon anon, this isn't Dark Souls. Damage over time effects are always shit.

>>47127345
Yes. All non-dice extra damage crits, unless it is EXPLICITLY said to not do so, like the PoW stuff does because lol.

>>47123446
I don't think he even remembers when it is. He's been undead for an awful long time.

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>>47123829
For the *most* part, combat healing is a trap. Only Vitalists (3pp psionic healer) can actually pull that off to the level one would expect of, say, a "white mage".

Buff, Debuff, and Kill. Every -1 on enemies is (statistically, over the long term) a few % less damage on the party.
Every +1 on friends is a few % more survivability or killing output.
Every dead enemy is *that much* less damage or debilitations per round headed the way of your group.

Obviously always be ready for exceptions; some conditions you need to get rid of immediately as they've just taken a friend out of the fight after all. But for the most part:

>Dead enemies hurt no friends
>Massively debilitated enemies hurt least friends
>Heavily debuffed enemies hurt few friends
>Heal spells mean your friends got hurt already

Top them off after battle, sure of course, but never forget that if that ogre goes down on round 1 instead of 3, that's six less broken ribs and one less dead rogue (not that he shouldn't be rerolling) you're going to have to fix after.

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Got any good suggestions for gestalting a beguiler, /pfg/? Looking at possibly using the scarred mourner archetype, although the shadowgraft skirmirsher. Going to be using her for a Rappan Athuk game coming up. All DSP content is allowed.

>>47127478
This is why "Ogre with deck-gun" is our party's best healer on most days.

>>47127478
I played a battle cleric back in 3.5. I worked off of a similar principle; They can't hurt anything if we bash 'em to pieces

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>>47127478
That said, as has been mentioned, Vitalist is the true white mage. MP based (well "PP"), can heal the group as needed at range, use overflow, and still have access to (much less than a "Cleric" though) the kinds of "mighty guard" abilities that ensure you need less Curagas that fight in the first place.

Once you toss in things like the drainer archetype for it, battle as a Vitalist becomes the perfect harmonization to a party's symphony of destruction.

And what good party *isn't* an apocalyptic movement in any kingdom's history?

>>47127601
AND Spheres Lifecasters, don't forget them.

They can pull off combat healing pretty nicely too.

On the plus side, they aren't as creepy as Vitalists.

>>47122965
Hmm.
I'm going to DM Curse of the Crimson Throne in a couple weeks and I'm tempted to add that dude as a NPC.
How bad of an idea is that?

>>47122931
Now *THAT* is a man proud of his newest masterpiece.

He can't wait to present it to the king.

Any copies of 'Kineticists of Polyphora' around?
There's three of the books.

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>>47127478
Well what you say appears to be true, I've had to heal our pistolero from the brink of death several times. For some reason the enemies keep hitting him with crits or nearly max damage. Hell last session he got critted in two combat encounters and nearly lost all his health. In our current game setting fire arms are common so it's a little trickier staying out of range compared to usual campaigns.

The main reason I'm looking for reach spell healing options is because I usually am a little too far back to walk up and use a touch spell since my character is using a rifle.

What is the hardiest character you can make without using magic at all? How difficult can you make such a character to put down?

>>47128527
No.

That's the answer.
Well, unless you're willing to use *double* (literally) the GP for tech versions, and another full value of said GP again just to keep them running with charges for a single adventure.

See, what's going to happen is that your saves, etc are all going to start falling behind. HARD. Without that resistance bonus, that deflection bonus, those enhancement bonuses, your AC and Saves will rapidly reach a point where you basically can't NOT fail a save, and enemies 2-3 CR below you can't NOT successfully hit you.

Since you'll also be lacking in temporary hitpoint layers or the such, and without magic obviously have no access to things like freedom of movement or condition-cleansers, you're effectively hard-fucked.

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>>47128588
Are there any [Tech] initiator disciplines in the works?

We've got supernatural, we've got [ex], there's even a psionic and a necromantic one, at this point we're just missing a discipline of holofields, satellite cannons and nanotech!

>>47128588
Off the top of my head, Swashbuckler might actually be best for this misguided venture.

They can parry attacks to help with low AC, and C H A R M E D L I F E is at least SOMETHING.

>>47128661
That... kind of doesn't make sense man.

You don't learn the ancient art of 'has a force field'

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>>47128680
You also don't learn the ancient art of "my sword emits a giant blast of time" and "when I dash I also teleport"

Except way back someone invented that and a whole lot of time (not the cone one) continued to pass with it being taught to other people on occasion and now it's an ancient technique and some old geezer in the back of a cave is all like

>come young asshopper, it is time for you to learn to throw cones of fucking time with your sword and teleport while you run, like any other normal martial artist

Someone just has to come up with it, and with time it'll become normal too.

>come young asshopper, it is time for you to learn to flail intelligent poison nano-clouds and call down fields of protection from the space, like any other normal martial artist.

This man's penis is either a missile or a pile-bunker. Dare you say he knows not martial arts?

If a battle oracle activates his surprising charge ability while mounted, can he use his horse to make the movement or must he dismount as a part of the action?

>>47128527
Are you open to 3pp stuff or 3.5 homebrew? Then sure, yeah, there is. I mean, it's all just [Ex] typed 'magic' items, but it DOES exist.

>>47128775
Except initiating is a learned skill, in ALL CASES.

You do not LEARN to have a satellite in space. You do not LEARN to have poison nanocloud factories implanted in your arms.

>>47128661
>>47128680
That's brilliant. It should be written *exactly* as though it was an ancient art. Like that shit in all those chinese novels, except with tech.

>Bubba could not believe his luck as he gulped down the core of that Myrmidon. Already the scraping uncomfortable feeling of burnt circuitry was making its way down his throat and towards his dantian region. As soon as he had refined it, he too would know the legendary "missiles from unspeakable places" technique!

>The old man threw out his sleeves, and a trio of incomparably brilliant Ghost V-9s flew out, bristling with integrated weaponry

>>47128803
You do not LEARN to your greatsword suddenly grows hundreds of profane feathers.

But you do have to learn to use it once it can.

>>47128848
Wrong point anon. You do learn how to make your greatsword grow hundreds of profane feathers and fire them out in a circle. You explicitly exactly do.
The argument here should rather be that if you can learn to make your sword into balding bird from nothing with no loss of mass by swinging it, there's no real reason you can't learn to make your sword into tiny machines from nothing with no loss of mass by swinging it instead.

>>47128863
Then it's magic and technology, not just magic.

And the impression I got from the initial post was 'just technology'

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This was a fun thread, but I am to tired to participate anymore.

>>47128881
nothing but different power-sources.
Golden Lion has a level 7 boost that *literally* heals all allies in a 60ft radius if he drops a foe. Completely nonmagical. While you could argue it's just giving them some morale, keep in mind it will also work perfectly fine on someone who's blind, deaf, unconscious and bleeding out, instantly. BAM. Right into the positives, as if your lung had never gone AWOL.
No magic.

So, lets say I have a Brute vigilante. Their vigilante identity changes sizes. If I am, for what ever reason, a wizard, vigilante, alchemist multiclass and used enlarge person after entering my vigilante form (taking an extract of it perhaps), would I go up another size category?

I know normally size increases don't stack, however this is both an Ex ability AND not a transmutation effect.

>>47128927
So what, you're just WILLING technology into existence? Then what's the fucking point of it being technology when you can mundanely will whatever you want to happen?

Things have to have an explanation. Even Fool's Errand with its bullshit 'climb the air' shenanigans at least has SOME basis in reality.

Also, a missing lung would be ability damage, not HP damage. And willpower is a significant factor in people surviving massive trauma or not.

>>47128952
>climb the air
>basis in reality

Also I don't think someone screaming something you potentially can't hear or understand is quite enough to instantly heal your massive trauma to the point where you can stand up as if nothing happened.

I think at this point "just willing technology" is just as explainable with Armstrong's campaign slogan with as much validity as anything else in this game.

>>47128952
>Even Fool's Errand with its bullshit 'climb the air' shenanigans at least has SOME basis in reality.
I mean no it doesn't, literally says you grab onto air and kick hard enough to fly. God damn it even sounds stupid looking.

>>47128680
That's dramatically oversimplifying it.

>>47128783
Generally when mounted for simplicities sake, your mount and yourself are treated as 'one' character, moving on the same initiative and such. (Though mounts can still get attacks and such)

So it falls less into raw and more into DM interpretation. Granted I have not read the ability.

>>47129015
I'm not going to argue that technological abilities wouldn't feasibly work within the system, I'm saying that thematically, it doesn't work.

How did you acquire these nanobots? How is a Bushi using this 'discipline' recharging said nanobots by sheathing his sword?

Technology is thematically fundamentally different to ALL other disciplines.

It occurs though, that neither of us (Or these other two guys) is gonna be convinced either way, and I think all the DSP people are themselves asleep, so we can't ask them what they think... so what do you say we just call it here and pre-emptively end an inane, pointless argument?

Sorry if this is kind of pleb, but I wanted to do a session that basically recreates The Thing. Is there anything in the Pathfinder beastiary that can take the form of its victims?

>>47129110
Doppelgangers

>>47129110
Faceless stalkers.

>>47128794
I'm open to the idea. I'm the DM, so there isn't the question of money or anything, I'm trying to stat a villain here. He comes from a place where magic literally can't exist, and the people are supremely prejudiced against magic users, actively crusading against them. They have a lot of anti-magic gear, but only because the ore they make their shit out of is anti-magic in its own right.

I swapped out vancian for spheres of power, and this guy could be a path of war class, so long as he doesn't use anything that would be magical in nature.

>>47129256
The Brawler Fighter archetype is pretty nice for 'fuck your mages' stuff.

If they get close to someone, that person's gonna have a hell of a time getting away from them.

They can take AoOs on people who make 5-foot steps or Withdraws, they penalize the attack and concentration rolls of enemies next to them(Which stacks with Disruptive), and they get a really nice damage bonus to Close Weapons. Even more so if you take the ruling of Close Combatant working as Weapon Training and take Trained Grace. Which, as DM, you can do.

Someone explain anti-life shell to me.

Is this one of those npc only spells, or does it only prevent living creatures from entering it but still let a living caster cast it and allow other living PCs inside the shell during the time of casting?

It says it prevents entrance but it doesnt really say it prevents you from casting while people are already in it.

>>47129340
>Is this one of those npc only spells, or does it only prevent living creatures from entering it but still let a living caster cast it and allow other living PCs inside the shell during the time of casting?
>It says it prevents entrance but it doesnt really say it prevents you from casting while people are already in it.

>This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

You can't cast the spell with other creatures nearby, it falls under this clause. Only the caster can be inside out of all living creatures. It works well in a party full of aasimars/tieflings, though, as they're outsiders and thus unaffected.

What to do with the Ultimate Intrigue Cardinal (Cleric archetype)? You lose one domain, get wizard BAB and only get light armor but you get 6+int skillpoints and some class skills.

I was thinking necromancer.

>>47129812
>What to do with the Ultimate Intrigue Cardinal (Cleric archetype)?
Nothing. It's a downgrade archetype.

Is there any way to get bonuses to hit or damage by having a high knowledge skill roll? If I'm playing a lore oracle I need ways to increase my damage easily.

>>47129933
Yeah, for fucking Cleric.

He'll be fine

>>47130067
Kirin Style i think?

>>47122840
I like the Inquisitor better for a martial class, although it's not really pure martial due to 3/4 BAB, but that's partially countered by Judgement & Bane temporary BAB-boosting abilities.

> Focused on hurting other things before they can hurt you or your allies
> Spontaneous casting instead of prepared (with such limited spells/day, wouldn't you prefer to just know the two or three per level that you're really gonna use?)
> Has 0-level spell slots for unlimited minor useful shit
> Can self-heal in combat with Healing Judgment, if you really want to
> Detect fucking EVERYTHING at will (even magic with Detect Magic orison)
> Initiative bonus -- possibly the most frequent roll in the game
> Bonus to recognizing monsters, very useful backup if the Bard or Wizard fails
> Stupidly good intimidate & sense motive
> Spot liars in a crowd at will
> Works well when helped by others

>>47130100
Kirin style increases your saves by 2 which is OK I guess

>>47130067
If you're fighting a lot of demons then there's Demon Hunter:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/demon-hunter

But otherwise, no. Your knowledge skill rolls increase party damage by being able to tell people to attack the monster's weak spot for massive damage.

>>47126841
Camazotz is a deity though.

>>47124229
Initiators really don't get that many more options, bro. Try actually reading what maneuvers do.

Are there any decent ways to get around as a cleric?

They get plane shift, but that's hella inaccurate. Just no standard teleports as far as I can see. Except Interplanetary Teleport, but that's a 9th level spell.

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>>47131018
Forgot random cleric image.

Also, let me know if there's any character art you want to see during this thread.

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Hey /tg/ i have a problem with my GM.
usually he is really this gm (as opposed to That GM) and his storys are always really fleshed out and cool,very RP focused with good charcters and quite enjoyable.
Well except the enjoyable part, its always hopeless grimdrak. across like 3 Campaigns (in deifferent settings) now. Every victory or Achievment of the Characters get invalidated shorty thereafter, Everything the Character holds dear or cares about- gone, every time if anything is achieved its only ever a Phyrric victory. Wifes killed days before the wedding, Everyone you swore to protect wiped out in 1 round by BBEG. Most of the time he gets a bit too exited about his BBEGs which result in waay to hard fights. We dont fight often, maybe once every 3 sessions or so. but usually thats only when a BBEG curbstomps us, After we got beat up he usually still totally excited goes over all the Enemies special abilities and how mean Awesome strong this guy was.
This has been going on for about 9 months now, and as far as i remember the last time any of our characters had anything to celebrate it was about 6-7 months ago. i have just grown tiered and demotivated by this endless negative hopless grimdark against godlike enemies (across like 4 different systems, but mostly PF). I usually come out of sessions with a bad mood and lack of drive and motivation because it was just another tpk or almost tpk without a fighting chance there is never a sense of achievment in the last 6 months.it usually drags down my mood for days since i used to really look forward to our weekly gaming session but now they only ever leave me motivationless and apathetic, i stopped caring about my Characters since the only thing that will ever happen to them is inevitebly they loose everything and die like dogs. i dont know how much longer i can carry on with this group. what do /tg/ ?

How would you translate the Darkest Dungeons chars to PF classes?

>>47122840
>What is the best 1pp martial class and why is it Paladin?
Magical smites, spellcasting, swift-action self-healing, Channel Energy, supernatural defenses out the ass, summons or temporary magic item creation...

Yeah, "martial".

>>47131321
If damage is your primary job, and most of your shit revolves around attack rolls. You're a martial.

>>47131119
Ah... comrade.
What lies now before you is a fork, leading to one of our most take roads: The Murderhobo.

The Murderhobo almost never simply becomes from mere "powergaming", you see. It comes from a heart and soul deadened by the knowledge that only in annihilation and its subsequent trophies can one hope to find a lasting measure of their character's existence.

You must talk to him about the error of his ways, his "you are all peter parker" magical of realms. Perhaps that would work... it has in the past... and perhaps not.

And should you choose not to, or should your pleas fall on deaf ears, you too shall be as one of us; playing a monstrous murder-machine, packed with emergency options designed to ensure the sudden "beatdown/capture/torture" sessions of the GM's whim come at the greatest cost, requiring no less than his cheating, handwaving and fiat (yes, all three) to ensure his magical realm is once again attained. You will be one of myriad of murderhobos, your only remaining link to this playing of roles you once held in such high regard a pile of numbers and talk of "builds" and "optimization".

Thus will tabletops be as diablo-like to you.

>>47131354
No, you're thinking of a "striker" or "DPS". Martial refers to where your abilities come from, not how you use them. "Martial", as opposed to "divine" or "arcane". The difference is that non-martial damage-dealing classes still get to have some of the fun toys, because they're powered by magic.

>>47131161
Crusader - obv a Paladin or Inquisitor
Man at Arms - Fighter
Abomination - Rageshaper Bloodrager w/ Abyssal Bloodline
Antiquarian - Archaeologist Bard into Balanced Scale of Abadar (maybe?)
Arbalest - Bolt Ace Gunslinger
Bounty Hunter - Bounty Hunter Slayer
Grave Robber - Rogue
Hellion - Barbarian
Highwayman - Gunslinger/Bandit Rogue
Hound Master - Beast Master Ranger
Jester - Bard
Leper - Inquisitor
Occultist - Sorcerer (Aberrant Bloodline)
Plague Doctor - Chirurgeon Alchemist
Vestal - Cleric

>>47131321
Main job front line whacking people with a stick, full BAB.

Yer a martial, Harry.

If I'm a Living Legend Soul Knife and take Focused Offense, does that mean I can get Int to attack and Damage?

>>47131389
>Main job front line whacking people with a stick, full BAB.
Do people seriously not know what the word "martial" means? If you're powered almost entirely by magical abilities, you're not a martial.

The Paladin's most amazing abilities are coming from its divine power source, which is how it gets around the "You can't have fun things because that's not realistic." bullshit that real martials have to suffer through. Claiming the Paladin is a martial is like claiming someone with a sprained ankle is a paraplegic. Yeah, they're worse off than someone with the full use of their legs, but the two are not anywhere near each other in degree.

>>47131426
Focused Offense is Wis isn't it? and only when you're using STR.

So won't work on Archmage for example.

>>47131432
>"You can't have fun things because that's not realistic." bullshit that real martials have to suffer through.
>I can't catch my PC's mouse when fiddling with a cord so weapon cords get axed.

>>47131389
no dude, martial means "not magic". "strength of arms", "skill", etc are yes, "qi", "arcane bloodline", "spells", "psionics" are no.

>>47131502
>Scholar (Ex): A living legend uses his Intelligence instead of his Wisdom for any soulknife ability he gains, such as blade skills that rely on Wisdom for determining save DC. He also uses his Intelligence instead of his Wisdom for abilities gained from prestige classes that advance his mind blade.
>So won't work on Archmage for example.
This is treated as a projectile weapon, but you do not require ammunition for your mind blade; you can make as many attacks as you are able to. You can only form a single Mystic Might of the Archmage mind blade at any given time, and cannot throw it with the throw mind blade class feature. If you have the Focused Offense blade skill, you can use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier when making attacks with this mind blade while psionically focused.

>>47131518
No.

Martial means "does hand to hand combat."

Rangers, paladins, gishes, etc are DEFINITELY martials.

>>47131389
Abomination is a beast morph alchemist.

>>47131523
Yes, Focused Offense gives you Int to attacks and damage with your LL stuff.

>>47131518
>>47131432
If your magic is really only to supplement your fighting powers, you're a martial. 1/4 and 1/3 magic users with some SU powers are not casters.

>Of, or relating to, warriors or warfare
Paladins are fighters who are divinely empowered. They are fighters first, and divinely empowered second.

>>47131432
>Do people seriously not know what the word "martial" means? If you're powered almost entirely by magical abilities, you're not a martial.

"Martial" is a style of play, not a measure of magic.

And every PF martial has RIDICULOUSLY dependent on magic.

>>47131389
Cheers bruh!

>>47131629
Alchemists have control over their 'powers'.

The Abomination suffers through his state, and must keep the evil energies (frankly demonic) in check. The fiendish and body horror of the Abyssal Bloodline'd Rageshaper is quite appropriate.

Plus, the Abomination frequently only transforms part of his body.

>>47131432
So your logic is the only martial classes that have ever existed are:
1. The Forsaker from 3.0
2. The Kensai from 1st edition AD&D Oriental Adventures
3. ????

Quick question about bows:

Can a character use craft (bow) to turn a shortbow into a composite shortbow? Are they different items completely, or the same item with multiple spots on the table due to variable stats?

Question also applies to bows I guess.

>>47131732
They're completely different items.

As a DM, I'd allow it, but it doesn't work like that by the rules.

>>47131670
no, then you'd be a 'Gish'. a combatant that supplements themselves with magic is a gish.

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>>47131732
Completely different items. Essentially, one is made of wood, the other of bone, wood and sinew all made together.

The other is just wood. Very little of the original item could be left, if any. (plus you don't really build a bow around the core of another bow).

>>47131700
A pleasure.

>>47131777
A gish is a mage who is martial.

They're not mutually exclusive. "Gish" is a means to an end, "martial" is the result.

>>47131777
Oh honey, you're so wrong.

No one considers the Paladin a gish. You take Paladin (usually 2 levels) and then you add Sorc to make a gish.

The Paladin is not an eldritch knight or magus divine-equivalent.

>>47131018
Word of Recall. You might get others from domains, but divine casters don't really seem to get standard teleportation.

>>47131760
>>47131781

Cool, thanks anons.

>>47131385
But..... But.... i dont want to become a murderhobo..... please no.... i want my Characters to Achieve something beyond mere Slaugther, something that doesnt just fall apart into ashes a session later.... i just want to have a good time with laughs and enjoyment to balance out the hardships..... it cant end like that.....

[spoilers] what does fiat mean anyways? [/spoilers]

>>47131839
For reference, it's easy to do a spoiler with the Ctrl-S command.

Fiat is usually a term for GM intervention (usually to change the way something is going in a game)

>>47131839
Fiat is when DM says "this is this way because I say so".

>>47131839
I would recommend talking to your GM, and reminding him that the game isn't about him making 'lulz super cool awesome bad guys' and while deprivation and loss can be an important PART of a storyline, it shouldn't be the only part of every storyline.

90% of issues with GMs or Players can be solved by talking to them. most of them don't know what they're doing.

>>47131732
>>47131760

Fuck no. Besides the fact that composite longs should not exist, and that the whole "you can make them more strength" thing is fucked up (any bow or crossbow should be rated to a certain pull in the first place), a composite bow was actually a completely different method of construction.

They also tend not to fare too well in temperate or humid climates. Odd that crossbows must remain slow for realism, but your composite bow can function perfectly well after weeks in a jungle.

Where regular "self" bows are made of a long piece of wood, composite bows are a laminated set of horn, sinew and wood, in multiple pieces glued together. Not even the same kinds of wood either

Composites tend to pack a bit more power for their size than a regular shortbow (this goes the same for composite crossbows, which had quickly become the default even in europe for crossbows, unlike a certain english weapon...) and are almost always built as Recurve bows, which helps make the draw and aiming easier by storing the energy in a slightly more front-loaded fashion.

Composite Bows however are extremely vulnerable to humidity (the glue just disintegrates), are utterly fucked if they're allowed to be fully soaked, and took significantly longer to make (and even more to dry and cure!) than self-bows. A tribe with most bows being passed on and used for decades is one thing, but full militaries? Forget it!

The reason europeans stuck to self-bows was those disadvantages; while crossbow prods could easily be protected and even used in bad weather, composite bows in not-the-fucking-steppes were basically worthless by the time they got to the battlefield.

In places where it was too dry for there to be bigass trees, however, the composite's disadvantages were minimized, more of the animals you required could be found, and well it's not like you could find a tree big enough in the first place.

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Guys, I'm in serious need of help
Can a mythic Druid with domain(s) take the Divine Source path ability and swap his Nature's Bond domain for the one granted by the mythic ability?
If true, is there an official confirmation, because the rules wording is a bit too vague and my DM is anal as fuck?

>>47131879
Problem with my GM is that he is very Bad with critisicm. He never criticizes himself and always takes criticism personally. when you start voiceing critique after a session he suddenly has to leave the skype call. So talking with him about something like that is quite a sensitive matter, but i probably just ahve to give it a shot.. also thanks for the Ctr-S tip >>47131859

>>47131885
>Besides the fact that composite longs should not exist, and that the whole "you can make them more strength" thing is fucked up (any bow or crossbow should be rated to a certain pull in the first place)

This is the operative thing. It doesn't really matter what they're calling it; "composite bow" in Pathfinder literally just means "a bow with a higher pull."

Fluff it as making a bow that's got a stronger draw weight. Or taking the magic on Bow #1 and putting it on Bow #2 using some sort of important component mumbo jumbo.

The stuff you're talking about for composite bows makes /zero difference/ because the rules don't give a fuck about it, all it is is a misused term by the PF writers to mean "this bow is for strong dudes."

>>47131161
>>47131389
Some of them use "genius" archetype packages. aka the sidebar on this page http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/harrier#TOC-Bard

Crusader is a paladin that drops 'divine guardian' package. potentially grabbing "battle master" fighter package or knight package.

Jester is a rogue that drops the 'sneak' package in order to pick up performance package.

As said abom is beastmorph

Most are fairly accurate though.

>>47131703
>what is fluff

Abominations acid vomit is basically a bomb (particularly acid bomb, though it may be mixed with breath weapon). His entire beast form is beastmorph alchemist shenanigans with a lot of discoveries that improve it.

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>>47131899
Best way to phrase criticism like that is to frame it as a part of an overall review. You like the detail of his campaigns? Frame how achievement is important to you because of how invested you are. Don't shut down his characters as much (he seems to like them), but maybe suggest being a higher level to be a proper encounter, so you can both do crazy stuff.

Best of luck, anon. I can understand the desire for giving your characters a good epilogue and a sense of achievement.

I was both of the replies, so not a problem.

>>47131912
The point of the post was fluff. Control and forced unclean heritage are very consistent themes.

Alternatively, Bloodragers get Dragon's Breath as a spell. Or Corrosive Touch. Enlarge person, Infernal Healing or Long Arm all scream Abomination. Add to that the ability to selectively shape shift nat weapons, it's great. I guess it's a matter of preference, I don't think either of us is wrong.

>>47131904
The rules give no fuck about it, and yet, those ARE the differences between those bows, if one were to wish to "transform" one.

Of course, that they give no fuck about it is rather odd, given they're so obsessed with ensuring other 'martial' bits of equipment keep their disadvantages for "realtisms"

>>47131993
Yeah, well.

I dunno.

In my games, we just use bows/composite bows as whatever we feel like fluffing them as, since they're the only worthwhile ranged option. Guns, crossbows, bows, piercing magic blasts, etc.

Your rant about it confuses me, because it really doesn't matter.

The question is basically "can I upgrade my bow without having to buy a brand new one and losing all the magic on it."

My answer, as a DM, in the interest of making the game not terrible, would be "yes."

>>47131732
>>47131760
>>47131904
>>47131993

They're the same item retards, proficiency with shortbows implies proficiency with composite bows, etc. "For purposes of Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, and similar feats, a composite shortbow is treated as if it were a shortbow." applies to craft magic arms and armour, so it should work for mundane craft (bows) as well.

>>47132014
Would you also say yes to "can I upgrade my longsword to a morningstar without having to buy a new one and losing all the magic on it."?

>>47132055
Without a second thought.

Does smite work vs creatures with undetectable alignment?

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>>47132044
>Proficiency is shared
>Thus same materials
So obviously you can transform a Rapier into a Cutlass with the same ease since they're both martial swords.

>>47132109

Yup. Though you probably shouldn't use it to check.

>>47131984
Our Current Campaign we just leveled up from lvl 15 to lvl 16, the very same session he throws a Balor Demon against us who kills the entire Fellowship of 2 of our 3 Characters including named characters we had character interaktion with in one round with a firestorm without anything we could have done and we barely escaped with our lives... so no matter how powerful we are he just finds a way to make us appear weak and powerless... we almost had 3 TPKs in 3 Sessions across 2 Campaigns now (the other campaign beeing The one ring) and he doesnt even seems to realize we as players are entirely demotivated....

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>>47131984
Ye... there are multiple 'correct' ways to do it. I prefer the alchemist more because of the discoveries and some non-beast utility.

Acid bomb, Feral mutagen, greater + grand mutagens etc.

Bloodrager / rageshaper is a bit more oriented on actual spellcasting IMO and it's 'rage' doesn't work as well (or last as long) as mutagens.

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>Crossblood sorcerers now gain bonus bloodline spells from BOTH bloodlines
>if a spell overlaps, you may select a different spell in the same school
>is otherwise about the same as now

How busted would this be?

>>47131426
Yes

>>47132044
They're treated the same because they work functionally the same. That doesn't mean they're made functionally the same.

Firing an arrow and making it out of an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATERIAL, STRUCTURE AND DESIGN are a wee bit different.

>>47132116
Not general simple/martial shit, but things like Rogues and Bards getting shortbows specifically. Rapier and Cutlass don't have descriptions that specify they're the same item like Shortbows/Composite Shortbows do.

>>47131904
>This is the operative thing. It doesn't really matter what they're calling it; "composite bow" in Pathfinder literally just means "a bow with a higher pull."
Actualy composite longbows can be used mounted regular longbows can not.
It is not something that comes up often but it is in the rules.

>>47131432

Is it possible to gain Paladin-like powers by forcibly squeezing divine energy out of Celestials?

>>47132085
That's dumb.

Just trade it in at your local artificery.

>>47132197
They don't say they're the same item. They say proficiency works across them because they're functionally similar.

Do you want them saying proficient with shortbow, composite shortbow, longbow and composite longbow? No, that's dumb.

Stop making an argument that doesn't fit with the game, realism and common sense.

>>47132290
Uhh, no. Because divine power objects to such means and would probably hurt you, rather than mixing with you. It isn't mindless power, it's a connection to Heaven, or a Deity (even though you don't need to worship just one).

Some Celestials can grant you Paladin-like Powers (bestow grace and bestow grace of the champion)

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>>47132290
You shouldn't hug the celestial that hard, they're delicate.

Would an immigrant from Rahadoum in Cheliax tip his fedora in public?

>>47132346

Nigga they'd be straight up euphoric.

>>47132320
>>47132197
>>47132116
You CAN transform a cutlass into a Scimitar though.

>>47132320

So you can't get any juice out of an Aasimar's blood, or even an angel? I thought that stuff actually had mechanical effects!

>>47132332

I don't know man, some of those Celestials look quite "healthy."

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>>47132290
>Is it possible to gain Paladin-like powers by forcibly squeezing divine energy out of Celestials?
Never trust an elf.

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>>47132427
They do, just not that effect.

Celestial Healing, angelskin leather, and the Caller's Feather. Consistent divine power is subject to a deity noticing you on the wifi they generate and going 'uhhhh, no' -SMITE-

>>47131984
That's a good question, what the fuck IS he casting?

>>47132500
In a wild magic zone.

>>47123077
I don't think TWF is bad, it's just poorly implemented and way too many feats like Two-Weapon defense, Two-Weapon Rend, improved/greater two weapon fighting, andt he one where you can strike with both simultaneously in an AoO or standard attack, should've just been a part of the first feat chain in the first place.

Same thing goes for combat maneuvers, 3.5 actually did that right. PF fucked up big time by removing the AoO in the improved and giving you the actual benefit with Greater, slowing down the progression big time knowing that CMD is one of the fastest scaling defenses in the game.

Meanwhile you got weapons that trip and disarm anyway, on top of who the hell would ever grab improved reposition/bullrush/drag? Somehow in the one situation you would ever use them (off a cliff or into a pit) they get a fucking bonus to resist it, but they get the clever idea to make it three separate feat chains in addition to other stupid feat taxes like "Bull Rush Strike".

>>47122929
I'll admit Brawler actually gives me what I've always wanted out of Monks and Fighters. The ability to change bonus feats on the fly and be a versatile kung fu master. Give me a sword, bow, chopstick, wand, I will turn it into a weapon somehow someway.

>>47132735
>Because fighters get bonus feats, obviously we need to lock their options behind lots of feats since feats are their class feature.
I am guessing something along the lines of this is the reasoning and it is total shit.

>>47132735
The AoO one you're thinking of is 3.5 - Pathfinder's just adds 1 to the total number of AoOs you can make that round, using your off hand. You might be asking right now, "so why the fuck would anyone take that, then?" but

>>47123477
>Dex to damage

STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID

To answer your question though I don't actually know.

>>47123660
>Implying anyone can see her.
>Implying she couldn't use a magic or a mundane disguise if she needed to.

>>47132852
>>Implying she couldn't use a magic or a mundane disguise if she needed to.
Too bad pf removed spell casting from assassins.

>>47132735

I honestly don't see the point of Bull Rushing until Dungeon Crasher is a thing again.

And knowing Paizo, a direct port of Dungeon Crasher would be regarded as OP as fuck, even if it's printed in a book with a spell that lets a wizard throw a small village into the sun.

>>47132864
Holy shit, how did I miss THAT change? They had assloads of interesting spells later into 3.5 too.

>>47123829
Outside of a way to get a familiar I would recommend maybe a way to UMD or get a potion/oil of Spectral Hand? That'll get you 100ft to cast any touch spell up to 4th level for 1 minute.

>>47124904
He can still cast cantrips, he could be a light source.

Save me from the pathfinder subreddit

Some idiot there thinks that improving guns & crossbow damage dice by a step, giving them dex to damage and giving them a small amount of ignoring AC (-4 ac to any non-adamantine, non-touch 2h, -2 for any other) is *more* than adequate compensation for removing rapid reload feats. In exchange you can take a 3 feat deep "reload as move action".

He then goes on to say "Yep I know that bows are always always always always better, but I think my retarded homebrew is pretty great!" towing the "martials shouldn't get nice things" anchor around.

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>>47122840
>why is the best martial class the one that gets good spells and free healing
Oh gee, I don't know.

>>47133102
what the fuck did he add as prereqs to "rapid reload, but worse if you were anything other than a heavy repeating crossbow"?

>>47125249
Arcane focus is pretty bad, the Lorewarden archetype already gives you the benefits of Scholarship and Intuition at level 1. The scaling on that bonus to saves is actually worse than bravery.

A familiar isn't much use to you unless you mutliclass into an Eldritch Knight or something. Even then you would get one for free as a Wizard/Sorcerer.

Caster's Bane seems pretty situational as well, it amounts to what is on average a 15ft reach and dosen't have any wording on those who cast defensively making it kinda worthless if the GM decides in the caster's favor.

Spellwarded actually seems okay. The cleric spell that gives you 12+caster level is 5th level, is next to impossible to get on a fighter without a high level cleric around because of it's spell level. Can't be made into a potion/wand/or even stored in your armor/weapon.

I'll look over the others in a bit.

>>47133147
"well I *gave* deadshot to everyone!"

Deadshot: All firearm and crossbow wielders may make use an altered version of the Gunslinger's Deadshot Deed. No grit or grit expenditure is required to access this feature - it is the intended "full attack" equivalent of this weapon type.

>This version of Deadshot is made as a Standard Action (which may not be combined with a double-barrel attack), costs no grit, and only misfires or fumbles based only on the first attack roll. If any d20 in the Deadshot threatens (including the extra attack from Rapid Shot or Haste), the crit is confirmed at the character's highest attack bonus, but the extra iterations of weapon damage from multiple "hits" does not multiply (similar to Vital Strike).

New Feat: Marksman (prereqs: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot): Add your dexterity modifier as bonus precision damage on all attack rolls made with firearms or crossbows. Additionally, you may quickly reload these weapons - a Two-Handed Firearm, Double Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, or Heavy Repeating Crossbow reloads as a Move Action, and a One-Handed Firearm, Light Crossbow, Light Repeating Crossbow, or Hand Crossbow reloads as a move action which may be combined with another move action (but not part of a full-round action - similar to drawing a weapon).

>Special: This feat replaces Rapid Reload, and serves as a substitute for all prerequisites related to it. A Gunslinger gains this feat for free at 5th level, or gains a bonus feat if he already possesses it - a Gunslinger's Gun Training feature supersedes the Dex-as-precision damage with its Dex-as-true-damage. This feat allows you to bypass the prerequisites for Improved Called Shot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/4i932t/critique_my_homebrew_crossbows_firearms_and/

>>47132864
That is pretty bad, but she's a ninja anyway.
I'm sure both have access to UMD, magic items, and disguise kits still.

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How do your characters deal with natural disasters /pfg/? Things like fires or earthquakes.

the fort mcmurray fire has currently burned 1500 square kilometers - roughly 580 square miles... and is potentially set to double in size *again* today

>>47133365
By lifting the affected areas and hurling them into space
He actually did this at one point, it's was pretty cool

>>47133217
Deadshot isn't good, though. It's more tolerable if it's not costing grit (THAT NERF WAS UNACCEPTABLE, JJ) sure, but it's still not good.

>Dex modifer
good!
>As bonus precision damage
oh. sorry. my bad. it's worthless shit that never fucking applies.

>>47133202
Wilderness focus is much much more impressive, I'll give you that.

The bonuses on Frontiersman can benefit any Fighter. An animal companion is much more useful as a mount/flank/scout partner.

Predatory Instinct isn't too good though, the scaling is also worse than bravery and the bonus is very situational. With +3 from Frontiersman at this point the making it a class skill seems kinda overkill.

Wild Charge is okay.

Bestial Strength should be 6th and Wild Charge should be 10th. Bonus stats are always good and this makes the belt of physical perfection much more alluring.

>>47133425
What's wrong with precision damage other than not being weapon damage? Concealment isn't all that common at least in games I've played and creatures immune to it are quite rare.

>>47133524
Because it doesn't multiply on a crit probably.

>>47133524
>Concealment isn't all that common at least in games I've played and creatures immune to it are quite rare.
Dim light gives concealment

>>47133449
Divine Focus altogether may as well be a Paladin Focus. Faith's Favored is pretty broken and the capstone is pretty lackluster.

Martial Focus's Apprenticeship is also lackluster considering both skills are already class skills for the fighter, Sparring Partner is okay if you can find a GM that allows cohorts. Grip of Iron seems okay if you don't have access to potions/oils of Enlarge Person/Lead Blades. Readied Stance is actually kinda unique, and Rigid Discipline I feel should be limited to a number of uses.