Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>47103658
Now that's a well stacked shortstack.

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>>47103790
mages eh?

If I was to run a Warcraft as a tabletop campaign what's the best system for it?

>>47104583
4e DnD or maybe Iron Kingdoms RPG.

>>47104583
It would have to be GURPS or Mutants & Masterminds. Preferably the latter.

i want to be smothered to death by naked gnome girls

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In a post Third War Azeroth, would it be pheaseable to list Stormwind and Orgrimar as "Untrusted," for one another rather than, "Enemies," based on their history of temporary cooperation? Even if it is a stretch I'm trying to bridge the super binary RvB-style factions in WoW for a project of mine.

Also, what about Thunder Bluff?
I don't really feel like anyone would hate the Tauren if they'd met through other means, it's just that they work for Orgrimmar and fought in the wars.

>>47105016
>In a post Third War Azeroth, would it be pheaseable to list Stormwind and Orgrimar as "Untrusted," for one another rather than, "Enemies," based on their history of temporary cooperation?

I think so. How long was it between Warcraft 3 and WoW? Also, were the Alliance and the Horde even at war when vanilla WoW began?

>>47105458
>How long was it between Warcraft 3 and WoW?
4 years
>Also, were the Alliance and the Horde even at war when vanilla WoW began?
there were limited skirmishes in a few border zones, and the Kul Tiras marines attacking Durotar, but other than that it was peaceful

>>47105612
Vanilla and TBC were a cold war. The war turned hot during Wrath thanks to the Wrathgate Incident.

>>47105016
Second Question:
Should Stormwind and Darnassus be Allies, Neutral, or Untrusted? I'm thinking Neutral.

>>47106080
Neutral, they have absolutely no reason to care about each other

>>47106164
Especially since the NE are supposed to be just as strong as the Horde or the Alliance by themselves.

>>47103368
So are death knights undead or alive? Why are they so well preserved and unrotting compared to the other undead if they are?

>>47106425
They are undead but the super special snowflake method that creates them preserves their bodies from decaying

Anyone else think Frost Death Knights are just way cooler thematically then Blood or Unholy? Just the idea of an undead knight bringing the chilling cold of the north and freezing everything around him seems pretty fucking awesome.

>>47106425
I always thought it could be either, as I don't remember Arthas ever dying, but some others clearly did die.

>>47106633
all 3 specs have pretty cool themes, but frost is super fun to play

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>>47104583
There was literally a Warcraft RPG book. I remember in college, my roomie bought it and it had classes like rune-shapers and others.

>>47106633
I personally like Unholy more. Tapping the necromantic powers that was iconic of the scourge. I would have loved if DK unholy spec was actually a caster minion horde spec. As it is still the closest we will ever get to a necromancer class.

>>47106733
>I would have loved if DK unholy spec was actually a caster minion horde spec.
they're making it that in Legion

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>>47106633
the only spec i can get behind at all is unholy since they are fucking muscle necromancers anyway

ill be forced to go frost though during legion because its the only artifact they have that doesnt look like total ass

>>47106791
Demo locks are a horde caster, and unholy has some more options but still not quite the necromancer I want so bad. Merge the two and call me Ner'zhul.

Unless they completely rebuilt the class since I last saw what was done with it in the alpha 1 month ago.

>>47106840
Luckily we can transmog our artifact r-right? I won't be stuck with whatever plastic sword design we get shoved on us right?

Yo anyone know any studios that make miniatures that sorta fit the Warcraft art style?

>>47107004
i was just at target and saw some miniatures for the upcoming movie. Probably not what you're after tho. They looked like utter shite tho sadly

>>47106708
I think I have most of the warcraft rpg stuff on my computer.

It's really interesting to see that Blizz considers it non-canon but takes alot of inspiration from the pages. Hell, I'm pretty sure wotlk was heavily inspired by what the rpg books stated/had about northrend.

>>47106882
yup, we can transmog them per the rules according to your class. Sucks since most classes will be stuck with one thing or another (mostly casters)

>>47107440
*cough ele shammies cough cough*

>>47107440
Yeah, they better let people turn MH+OH into staff weapons, and god damn if fists and daggers can't transmog into other one handers I'm going to shoot up Blizzard HQ.

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>>47107004
Yeah I was hoping maybe someone pulled a Brother Vinni and made some voodoo trolls or new world minotaurs but sadly that doesn't seem the case.

>>47107420
Well, Metzen actually worked pretty closely with the guys doing the RPG. A lot, but not all, of the ideas in those books are likely ideas he had or just expanded upon what was already in WoW.

All the stuff about the beliefs and practices of the Light are probably 100% canon, since Whitemane's clone mentions all the same stuff about the three virtues and interconnectedness. The part about Divine Humanism is still ingame, though it's more just vahuely referenced in the Tome of Divinity.

It's pretty clear that most of the RPG lore is pretty solid, but there's enough that isn't that it can't be taken safely as a source of canon. Not every potential plothook or suggestion for how you could make a monster from another RPG work in WoW should be canon.

>>47107004
There are these miniatures from the actual warcraft miniature game, but they are quite bad. Your best bet would be to convert your own. Anything but draenei isnt that hrd to come around.


Also a weird question: has anyone tried to implement on a campaign or history any of the heroes of the storm skins like in an actual alternate universe?

Tyrande securing the demonic satyr malfurion in the underground dungeons while Illidan, the archdruid lives along with high priestess Maiev . At Pandaria, the thunder king gather his pandaren troops led by Chen to a offensive against the night elfs, only to be constantly hijacked by a group of rebels led by his own niece. Thrall, having betrayed gdoomhammer and taken his armor and weapon, now receives assistance of a fel infused Gul'dan... the possibility for a campaign is interesting.

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>I know the Naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time.

That's an interesting perspective to place on the eternal conflict and certainly not quite what I was expecting.

>>47109764
its been hinted at for a long time that the naruu have a shady side to them considering when they die they turn into void gods

looks like they are just different sides of the same coin

>>47110309
Well, I like how the attitude almost mirrors the relationship between shadow cultists and Light worshipers.

The Cult of Forgotten Shadow doesn't really have a problem with the Light, but most Light-worshipers don't really like them at all.

>>47110309
>"Xal'atath has a mind of its own. Ignore its maddening whispers. Do not trust the lies it spins. Take from it what you need, but always remember that the dark presence in the blade is not your ally."
>Literally the weapon's flavor text

The Light and Void are obviously connected, and the Naaru are suspicious as fuck, but some on now. Don't put faith in the words of a literal im-going-to-fuck-your-mind artifact

>>47110443
>Don't put faith in the words of a literal im-going-to-fuck-your-mind artifact

im not. im putting it into the fact that naruu literally turn into void gods when they get too weak. its happened multiples times already

>>47110496
I always figured that there's an organization of Dark Naaru out there that serves the Void Lords. I also assume there is a Light equivalent to the Void Lords themselves.

What do we know the afterlife in the universe? Souls obviously exist, and they go to the Shadow lands after death in most cases, but what then? How does resurrection work?

>>47110616
Blizzard has left it vague, it seems some powerful beings like greater Loa, Ancients, and titan constructs turned Val'kyr can pull souls into specific realms/planes/dimensions, or switch them from the shadowlands to the Emerald Dream, but the rules are vague. And gods only know what happens to "consumed" souls.

>>47110988
>And gods only know what happens to "consumed" souls.
Well, we know what happens to ones "obliterated" by Saronite, as Sylvanas was generous enough to show us.

>>47111084
That was for more reasons than just the saronite. And she didn't expect true obliteration, just that her banshee form would die too.

>>47111269
I'm just going by the phrasing that was given.

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>>47106708

Yeah, but it's based on 3rd edition anon.

so vol'jin is pretty dead

>>47111956
>warchiefs are dropping like flies
>Sylvanas decides the only way to get out alive is to do what Thrall did
>steps down, gives the job and a pile of saronite to Gallywix, dresses in a bath robe, and desperately seeks out a baby daddy
>another zone is butchered for her romantic comedy arc

>>47112325
>tfw Warchief Gallywix builds a wall around Azeroth and makes the Legion pay for it

>>47112363
That's bullshit. Gallywix is actually intelligent.

He might convince Sylvanas to give him the job on greenie promise that building a wall is all he'll do though.

>Each aspect is going to be killed off eventually
Why blizz? Wasn't depowering them enough? I know they had to write them out of the story someway because they made them too powerful. But surely being mere (powerful) mortals would be enough

>>47113419
Well they can't kill Nozdormu at least, although we might yet get to watch him turn evil.

>>47111956
They've shown a corpse?

>>47114691
you attend his funeral and shit

>>47114703
We knew he'd have a funeral, but not if he'd actually be inside the casket.

>>47113419
"What? Our fans don't like Knaak? Let's destroy EVERYTHING he wrote just to be sure we don't forget anyone."

>>47114773
>"What? Our fans don't like Knaak? Let's destroy EVERYTHING he wrote just to be sure we don't forget anyone."
Vereesa is still around. I guess they have more misery in store for her though.

On a more serious note, I do hope they are not really that petty.

>>47114773
wats wrong with knack? its blizzard who writes lots of shit.

>>47111956
I guess the Horde is well and dead now. Only the Forsaken have their original racial leader.

What I don't get is that the guy is a Troll. If he was able to get back to Orgrimmar he should be able to regenerate. Or fetch a fucking healer. Hell, he even knows a death loa. How does he even manage to die?

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>>47114773
>Vereesa is still around. I guess they have more misery in store for her though.

Seems all women sans the Banshee Waifu is destined to be an arm-attachment for men.

>>47113324
Remind me why we weren't allowed to kill him again.

>>47114773
I've only read Day of the Dragon and War of the Ancients. They weren't great books by any means, with a lot of dodgy writing, but IIRC the Aspects were a lot more tolerable than most of the other characters. DotD-Malygos was certainly more interesting than Wrath-Malygos.

>>47115035
They need Vereesa to give the alliance a tie to Alleria, that's the only reason she's still around I think.

It's not being petty, just being out of touch.

>>47112325
>romantic comedy arc
Well, she seems to enjoy her banter with Nathanos, though Nathanos isn't really bringing his A game with her.

>>47114773
>>47114703
>>47114691
>>47111956
Oh, they show him openly on a Pyre, also he fucking dies AFTER GETTING BACK TO ORG ALIVE, so much for Bonswamdi wanting him to stick around in the world.

Fucking hell Blizzard are pointlessly ramping up the drama in this expansion.

>>47115277
Whwre the fuck are the shamans? Or the Paladins that hang around in the War Room? It's not like resurrection isn't a real thing in this world.

>>47115368
Resurrection is a bit of a grey area.

They coulda spammed heals but I imagine that fell debuff on him in the throneroom is blocking heals and Wowhead's testers are jsut too dumb to mouse over it, I am hoping the Pyre is still some sort of fakeout.

>>47115143
>It's not being petty, just being out of touch.
It's being way too much in touch with petty people.

>>47115277
>he fucking dies AFTER GETTING BACK TO ORG ALIVE
From what? Guy fucking survived getting his throat slashed open by a poisoned dagger. I get that he's not outright invincible, but it's hard to believe that there's much he wouldn't recover from as long as it doesn't kill him outright.

>>47115277
Wow

Blizzard really, really doesn't like nice things

>>47115443
Or just being so out of touch they think we''re all petty.

>>47115886
A poison SPECIFICALLY designed to kill trolls at that, and it took him a long time to get help!

>>47116210
Maybe they're prepping Vol'jin to become the fourth horseman (or raptorman? what beast will nazgrim ride anyway) after Whitemane goes rouge after hearing one too many chapeau jokes.

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Holy shit, I knew Vol'jin wasn't going to be Warchief anymore, but they're actually killing him off? There better be a good reason for it other than an excuse for some cheap drama.

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>Vol'jin is dead
>Cairne is dead
>Thrall is LARPing as the Dude in his bathrobe

Sylvanas should be next, but she keeps getting away with everything, so Lorthemar will be removed from power next. He's a literally who too, just like Cairne, so it should be easily doable.

What leaders have the Alliance lost besides Varian? Is Bronzebeard still frozen?

>>47116735
Fandral
Bolvar (sort of )
Benedictus ( he was faction leader for a while)
Varian

Magni apparently came out of being diamond and became the most worthy widower in all azeroth.

>>47116735
Don't turn this into a balance thing, they've lost Varian, and Jaina is probably next, Magni's going to remain a diamond but break free and start walking around.

>>47116816
He's still a Diamond, just not stuck to the ground.

>>47116835
he is now a dwarf made of diamond instead of just diamond, thereby making him the most worthy of all widower.

>>47116835
I don't mean to turn it into a balance thing, I haven't played in a while so I don't actually know if they've lost anyone. I only know of Horde losses because they seem to be more high profile.

>>47116816
>Benedictus

Let me guess, another corruption case?

>>47117017
>Let me guess, another corruption case?
Yes, and the same happened to the guy who replaced him!

>>47117017
yeah, twilight father bullshit

One of the most "what?" moment in the WoW history.
There was absolutely nothing leading to that.

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>>47117050
>>47117056
This meme needs to end.

>>47117056
They supposedly had a story written for it, but it never really got implemented.

>>47116422
Killing Vol'jin and Varian off seems like a really dumb move. That means Horde has gone through three warchiefs in a span of few years, and it's not like there's any good replacement available. Seems Sylvanas is going to be the next warchief, but that feels weird since the Forsaken have always been pretty distinct from rest of the Horde; more like allies of convinience than actual part of it, so her becoming the leader of all Horde races seems weird. Plus she's never cared for anybody but the Forsaken.
Varian's also gotten loads of lroe and character development, so just suddenly killing him off seems like a dumb move. Although at least he has a replacement that makes sense (Anduin, who would be the next in line of rhte throne).

The way things are going, all important faction-specific lore figures (the ones who actually do something in the lore) are either killed off or become neutral, which is somewhat odd move when they also want to up the hostilities between Alliance and Horde (it's somewhat weird that PCs from different factions are supposed to simultaneously be at each other's throats and take orders from the same guys).
I'm going to bet, based on the increased importance of the Your PC (tm), as seen in the garrisons and the class stuff in Legion (paladin PC becoming high lord of the Silver Hand, DK PC becoming leader of the Ebon Blade, and so on), a few expansions down the line they'll just make the PC the Warchief/High King.

>>47106633
I love blood magic in every setting I play but theme wise Unholy seems like the most DK spec of them all. Too bad blood spec has been resigned to tank duty.

>>47117331
desu, the way blood worked it either had to be redesigned for tanking or completely gutted. It was just too ridiculous for DPS

fuck them ruining Rune Tap though

>>47117056
Even more idiotic is that the one to confront him is... Thrall. Not someone else from the Church, not someone else from Stormwind, not even someone from the same faction, nothing to make the betrayal actually mean something. No, it's Thrall, who hasn't even met the guy before.

>>47116422
>>47117211
I'd guess they're gonna pretend to kill him off and he uses le moa to come back because witch doctor shadow hunter shit and stabs the shit out of sylvanas when she pulls a garrosh 2.0

So Elune is so hot that when magni communed with her it made him literally diamonds?

>>47117056
But there was. All the pope palpatine memes, and we know how cataclysm is the meme central.

>>47117211
Anduin was always more qualified to be king than Varian. The most unfortunate thing about Varian's death is that it didn't happen back in the gladiatorial arena.

>>47117777
Holy quads confirm it

>>47117777
How was Anduin ever qualified to be king?

If it was up to Anduin, the night elves wouldn't have gotten the aid they needed to defend Ashenvale (anduin was against fighting the horde there) and would have let them have Pandaria.

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But why?

>>47117089
tell that to metzen.

>>47117507
> green jesus
> ruining every good plot as usual.

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>>47106633
I don't know man, there is just something about tanking with a greatsword that does things for me.

>>47117777
Varian was trained to be the perfect king
Anduin is just a hippie.

How is anduin more qualified again?

>>47118430
Good you cant see his face, that can be a decoy.

>>47118430
>press F to pay respects

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>>47118430

>>47117507
Mostly because Thrall just happened to be in the same instance they tried to jam Benedictus into at the last second.

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>>47118430
So Kosak's waifu can be Warchief.

>>47113419

They can't kill Nozdormu though, me and four of my friends already killed future Nozdormu....Nozdormu paid us to do it.

>>47118430
>shadow hunter
>dying
>ever
>not illusioning away

Blizzard writing at its finest.

>>47115116
>Seems all women sans the Banshee Waifu is destined to be an arm-attachment for men.

holy shit fuck off tumblr. go play victim complex somewhere else

>>47103110
So, I don't really know shit about WoW. It's lore seems relatively expansive, and the people who are into it seem fairly into it. I preface all that because I have a question:

What is it about Draenei that makes them the designated porn race?

Like said, I don't know the lore but whenever I see cheesecake or out and out porn for WoW its nearly invariably Draenei. Is there some reason in the lore for this? Where did this start?

>>47118743
>Like said, I don't know the lore but whenever I see cheesecake or out and out porn for WoW its nearly invariably Draenei. Is there some reason in the lore for this? Where did this start?

They're "aliens" in the lore, so they're an exotic race with weird skin colors and a sexy Russian accent, not to mention happening hips.

And because they're aliens, I can give my female draenei a foot long horse dick because you can't prove they DON'T have them.

>>47118558
But she wants to be Lick Queen.

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>>47118771
>Lick
Fucking autocorrect.
Yet somehow, appropriate for Kosak.

>>47116422
I think Vol'jin is MIA more than KIA.

>>47118430
>>47118798
Or, y'know, I'm wrong.

>>47118798
See >>47118430

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>>47118771
Nobody has a problem with that, they have a problem with her winning at everything, and being a karma houdini when other Horde leaders got fed to the wolves for being douchenozzles.

>>47103110
>legal babyfuck

Thank you based blizzard

>>47118765
So, it's mostly just because?

>>47119017
>So, it's mostly just because?

Yeah. Personally, I prefer goblin and panda girls. But that's because I'm a degenerate.

>>47119068
>goblin
>shortstacks
Acceptable.

>panda girls
>fatties and furies
Double degenerate.

>>47118825
So he learned a few tricks from his best pal Zalazane. So what?

At what point did you realize the Horde is the villain faction and the Alliance are the heroic underdogs?

>>47119284
Isn't that exactly what it's billed as?

>>47119284
>there will never be a world where Cairne became Warchief while the Garrosh/Saurfang tag team was made supreme commanders of the Horde military

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>>47119284
when has it been anything other than that? literally. unless you mean those periods where the horde was the villainous underdogs

>>47118765
Don't forget that their leg structure cause them to stick their chests out like they're in high heels at all times.

>>47118430
No fucking way that's the real Vol'jin.

>>47119955
Hot

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When are we going to get a REAL Warchief again?

>>47120802
Don't even start that shit

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Vol'jin felt wasted in WoW. All he really had to his name was Brewfest, retaking the Echo Isles, and calling Garrosh a fuckhead to his face. For being purportedly the world's greatest shadow hunter, he never really got to show off.

>>47106674
He dies and is dug up from his grave in WC3. Start of the Undead campaign.

>>47120802
Is it just me or does that movie look weird? Not in terms of being an odd story, but the visuals just look odd.

>>47120950
It looks too real.
Garrosh is so handsome.

>>47120802
>Ner'zhul dies in a 5 man
>Durotan does nothing after you leave Frostfire Ridge
>Grom is a little bitch
>Kargath appears out of nowhere as the first boss of the first raid
>Blackhand gets bested by le power of friendship and then broods in his fortress
>Orgrim just straight up disappears
why were Kilrogg and Gul'dan the only Warlords that weren't shit?

>>47121211
After Thrall cheated in mak'gora they were all too disgusted too live.

>>47121211
>>Blackhand gets bested by le power of friendship

You mean a big ass cannon.

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>>47120893
Plus he gets to be Warchief for all of one expansion before dying offscreen.

Did he even do anything in Warlords of Draenor?

>>47121334
>Did he even do anything in Warlords of Draenor?

He told us we did good then came to see us build boats.

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>>47118743
They're essentially good-aligned demons (or rather, some of the nastiest demon lords in Warcraft universe were originally of the same race as Draenei): all of the semen-demon look but without risking your soul. Plus, generally pretty and exotic-looking. And they've got a sexy accent.

Draenei are the best waifus. Kind, loving, devoted, and pretty. Plus I get the feeling they'd be willing to try all kinds of weird stuff, catholic schoolgirl style (considering female Draenei used to have "do Gnomes have a vibrate setting?" as a joke emote, I don't think I'm too far off).

>>47119353
Well, in Vanilla, and up to around Wrath or Cata (the transition starts in Wrath but really becomes apparent in Cata), Horde were supposed to be underdogs, with considerably less resources and manpower than the Alliance, and aside from Forsaken (who have always been assholes, although have become more assholier since then) weren't particularly evil. Tauren are bros and most Vanilla Orcs, while big into military prowess and stuff, weren't up to anything really evil (Warsong were being assholes and chopping down Night Elves' trees, but I wouldn't consider that really evil). Both sides had both assholes and reasonable people.

>>47121211
>>Ner'zhul dies in a 5 man
He does give an "I'll be back" vibe, but Blizzard probably cut that content, too, to rush towards Legion.
>>Durotan does nothing after you leave Frostfire Ridge
Neither does Velen on the Alliance side. Aside from die.
>>Grom is a little bitch
It's hard to make a character threatening when the players have to win against him. He got turned into Cobra Commander this expansion.
>>Kargath appears out of nowhere as the first boss of the first raid
Reminder that Prime Universe Kargath was a weak little 5-man boss in one of the Hellfire Citadel dungeons.
>>Blackhand gets bested by le power of friendship and then broods in his fortress
No, he was DISTRACTED by the power of friendship. The big ass cannon you secure on the other boat does the damage.
>>Orgrim just straight up disappears
Now I know you didn't even play the fucking game.

>>47121571
most of the Horde assholishness in Wrath was from Garrosh, and the way Garrosh and Saurfang interacted with and tempered each other was an important part of the Horde's military strategy.

Then Cata throws it all out the window and Garrosh's (and to a lesser extent the other Mag'har) rage is unleashed with no one to hold him back or point him in the right direction other than muh honor, which is how we get MoP

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>>47121571
>Draenei are the best waifus

This guy sums it all up.

>>47121211
I don't mind Ner'zhul being in a 5man. As somebody who doesn't have time to do proper raids, it's nice to be able to fight against some important characters occasionally (although these days there's raid finder for that). Plus since they didn't go for the plans to stick all the Warlords into a single raid, they had to put him somewhere. It's better than Kargath just randomly popping in as the first boss of a raid that isn't even related to him, anyway. Really, WoD suffers a lot from having very little endgame content, resulting in, among other things, some of the Warlords just shoehorned in random places because you had to put them somewhere.

I'd say Blackhand was good, though. He gets a pretty impressive role in a questline and then is the the final boss of his own raid.

Grom doing a heel face turn and becoming a good guy at the last minute (and everybody apparently forgiving all the shit he did) was incredibly stupid, though. Especially since he's been the BBEG for most of the expansion (sure, we figh Gul'dan and the Shadow Council occasionally, but the main focus was on stopping the Iron Horde). Having him just turn good at a flimsy pretence because Blizz decided to scrap their original plans for the final raid was just really unsatisfying.

>>47121334
No one did anything in Warlords of Draenor.

>>47121873
>I don't mind Ner'zhul being in a 5man. As somebody who doesn't have time to do proper raids, it's nice to be able to fight against some important characters occasionally (although these days there's raid finder for that).
my problem isn't so much that Ner'zhul died in a 5 man, it's that somehow, a master of necromancy and void magic just dies and that's it. Which gets doubly insulting when HFC has an encounter that's 2 orcs from other games + a random Shadowmoon OC, and a boss that's a giant void creature. They seriously didn't think to stick Ner'zhul either in place of Dia Darkwhisper or doing something related to Xhul'horac?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYa9vZsqbvs
Praise the skies.

>>47121873
>It's better than Kargath just randomly popping in as the first boss of a raid that isn't even related to him, anyway.

It's related in that he used to fight there as a Gladiator.

>>47121975
But HFC was all about Archimonde's dudes coming in and wrecking shit up.
Ner'zhul sold himself to Kil'Jaeden, so we can assume his ethereal ass is being chewed up by KJ and his demons.

>>47122428
>But HFC was all about Archimonde's dudes coming in and wrecking shit up.
only after the Fel Horde and Gul'dan had been BTFO to the point where not even Super Mannoroth could save things. In an encounter that's designed around wink wink nudge nudge nostalgia, they couldn't bring back Ner'zhul as some kind of void undead so he gets a proper send off?

>>47122308
about fucking time. good job blizz

>>47122308
Literally nothing but Varian's grave and monument. Wasn't the Park a small druid enclave?

>>47122780
Had some night Elf shit there.

>>47122834
good riddance

should have been high elves anyway

>>47122780
Some night elf envoys had set up a moonwell there. There was also a tavern and a few shops.

>>47122528
He could have ended up in the Farahlons or somesuch.
But so much of the planned WoD content was cut for the sake of Legion.

>>47121571
I miss old Thrall and his horde. Honorable barbarians who were struggling to survive but damn proud that they were. That seemed to be the defining trait of the Horde: survivors against all odds.

Hell, even the blood elves had that going on.

The Horde should never have been a major military threat, in the way they became. Powerful enough to defend themselves and contribute to the fight against larger threats, but never enough to wage war across an entire continent with aims of conquest.

>>47123633
The problem was, far more people played Horde than Alliance and so, all the fluffy superweapons that the Alliance has, like Malfurion, Velen, Jaina, and the manufacturing power of Ironforge, have to be kept in check by bad writing to make the Horde feel relevant and strongk.

>>47121211
Ner'zhul actually had the most development of the warlords besides Gul'dan and played a big role in Shadowmoon. But yeah, he could've used some void phantom for you to fight or something and appeared later.

They needed to expand on or at least mention his connection to Gul'dan.

>>47122428
>>47122528
Nerzhul was opposed to legion's plan in both MU and AU
it won't make any sense for him to be there without a proper lead up quest.

>>47125752
MU he started everything with the Legion, and then chickened out and tried to hide. Ended up accidentally-ing his whole planet trying to escape the Alliance and then got caught anyways and became the Lich King.

>>47125791
He didn't knew who kil'jaeden was, after he learned the truth he backed out and tried to warn the others, which is the reason why Durotan and Ogrim never drank demon blood.

He is not a good guy, but he was never a legion pet like gul'dan.

>>47125752
if Gul'dan could keep Mannoroth's bones hidden for 2 years, I'm sure he could collect up Ner'zhul's body and do something with it

>>47123934
Wich I always found ridiculous, Played horde from wc2 ownard, and it was never about being being hitech or powerfull. It is about being strong, dieing in the battlefield arround the bodies of your enemies, being proud and surviving. if anything blizzard should have gave the alliance some weapons to fight huge numbers of horde players for balancing.

>>47121873
>Grom doing a heel face turn and becoming a good guy at the last minute (and everybody apparently forgiving all the shit he did) was incredibly stupid, though.
You mean Grommash?
Grom didn't turn, he was convinced that what he did was right until the end. And while you'd be right to say he had a point that Thrall shares some responsibility, Thrall also made good point that choices Grom made were his alone.

>>47127507
That's garrosh you idiot.

Grom is Grommash.

>>47127599
How rude. You don't have many friends, do you?

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>>47127646
>having friends

Where do you think we are?

>>47127646
He may be rude, but he's still right.

So are Ogres descended from Gronn? Or are Gronn just like super Ogres?

>>47128386
Possibly descended via the Ogron, possibly different branches on the COlossus-Magnaron family tree.

Titans were involved at some point too, creating Magnaron/Gronn etc control devices (And possibly empowering the Magnaron to begin with) and setting the Ogres up as the general guardian race before leaving.

>>47128115
Yes.
Sometimes it's possible to point out rudeness without also accusing the person of being wrong, just like it's possible to point out people being wrong without being a dick.

>>47128386
>>47128573
Gronn are the original, then Ogron, then Ogres, whom the Gronn conquered as slaves for years.

>>47128626
If you're crying about being called an idiot on 4chan, you're far too young to be here.
This ain't your fuckin' hugbox, kiddo. Grow some thicker skin, or get your faggot little ass out.

Isn't there a Canon AU where Jaina became the Lich Queen and Arthas sailed to Kalimdor?

It could be fun to see Paladin Arthas show up somewhere down the line. I mean after WoD and the fact that Illidan is coming back nothing seems off the table.

>>47128745
>Isn't there a Canon AU
No.

>>47128744
>unironically thinking that namecalling makes you more mature

>>47128787
>unironically whining about being called names on the internet
Underage confirmed.

>>47128798
sure m8

>>47128787
>>47128798
>>47128814
Go to bed, you two.

>>47128761
No to that specific one or no to AUs in general?

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>>47128826

>>47128829
No to any AU, especially one like that that reads like someone's retarded fanfic.

>>47128843
Warlords of Draenor is canon you know.

Anyway Lich Queen Jaina was just a nightmare she had during part of the WoW manga, not an actual AU

>>47128875
It's not an alternate universe, just alternate timeline.

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>>47128889
Same thing basically.

>>47128901
thats dumb. thats not even how death knights work

should have been a lichess if they were going to do that

>>47128911
What do you mean? In the manga it was a nightmare she had where she traveled to Northrend with Arthas and wound up getting Frostmourne instead of him.

>>47128951
just that from that art it looks like she was made a death knight first. but since she was a mage it doesnt make sense

but yeah i get that its a dream

>>47128911

Death Knights have been a lot of things in Warcraft. I mean, the name refers to two entirely different necromantic groups with two entirely different styles of combat to begin with.

>>47128966
The original Death Knights were Warlocks, so casters becoming DKs isn't an unknown thing.

>>47128984

Warlocks or even Ice Mages.

I mean, look at Kel'thuzad. Back during the Second War he'd have been a death knight.

>>47128974
i think there are three kinds

>orc ghosts
>dead paladins
>fucking anything because we want that hero class everywhere

>>47128984
thats true but thats not the type of dks that were being maid at that point

>>47128994
>maid
heh oops. its really late

>>47128994

>thats true but thats not the type of dks that were being maid at that point

>Lich King, this is highly degrading!
>Get in the dress.

>>47123934
>>47126557
Ironically lore-wise Alliance is supposed to outnumber Horde by considerable margin (most Horde races have a very small population; Taurens were never particularly numerous, the Trolls all come from a single small-ish tribe, BE and Forsaken are small remnants of destroyed kingdoms, most of their original population either dead or serving some evil force. Orcs are the only ones that might have a decent sized population after TBC, due to adding the non-Fel Orcs from Outland to their numbers).

At what point did Horde players begin to outnumber Alliance anyway? Back when I played Alliance outnumbered Horde by at least 2 to 1 in almost every server.

>>47129493
it depends on the server

generally PvP focused server will have a bigger horde population.

>>47129493
According to blizzard's stats there's more Alliance players total but most of them play on PvE servers. PvP servers mainly favor the Horde.

>>47128911
>>47128994
Whitemane is a priest, so it doesn't seem to matter.

>>47129852
Anybody can be potentially turned into a death knight. I just believe that the ones you can play were formerly Warriors or Paladins. Whitemane will probably be similar to Zeliek and retain her Light powers in Undeath

>>47130120
>Whitemane will probably be similar to Zeliek and retain her Light powers in Undeath

Just checked wowhead and she's able to still use Consecrate in Legion, so she seems to have kept some of her former powers.

>>47129493
The thing is though, humans, gnomes and draenei should all also have very small populations, with the largest forces being those of the dwarves and night elves

>>47130413
I'd assume humans have a pretty large population, probably bigger than dwarves (at least before Cataclysm, when Dark Iron and Wildhammer clan dwarves also became part of the Alliance). Dwarves have Ironforge, but other than that they don't really have large settlements. Humans, even after losing most of Lordaeron and getting Stormwing wrecked in the first war, still have numerous cities and towns all over the Eastern Kingdoms (and they used to have Theramore as one of the biggest Alliance cities in Kalimdor until Garroshchlysm happened).

>>47129686
That explains a lot of things, actually.

>>47117507
There were voice files for Varian calling Benedictus out during Cata's Beta, but they were removed and/or never implemented.

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>>47120802
NEVER

EVER

>>47130522
For fuck's sake, was there ANYTHING Cataclysm did right?

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>>47130550
...I really liked that armor set you got from the Bronze Dragonflight dungeons.

>>47130550
The instances were pretty cool.

>>47130550
The armed critters in Mulgore were kinda funny

>>47130550
A bunch of totally inconsequential things

Blizzard is good at getting tiny details right, and the big picture wrong

Does anyone beyond the most rabid fanboys give a shit about Trolls? Blizzard keeps pushing them but nobody likes them.

>>47131238
I like trolls, "survivors of the precursor society" is a trope I like, and the mesoamerican architecture of their cities looks great

>>47131238
Most of the WC fans I know love Trolls. Myself included.

>>47131238
Trolls are pretty nifty. In terms of visual design they're probably the most original of Warcraft's playable races, and their fluff isn't half bad either.

As bad as the Zandalari retcon in Cataclysm was, I still enjoyed their appearance in Mists. One of the very few instances of Blizzard taking something stupid and actually building on it and trying to make it good, rather than just aborting it like they did with WoD.

>>47131547
wod was being built up pretty good.
It went to shit when karabor got scrapped.

>>47129493
In Vanilla, Alliance outnumbered the Horde overwhelmingly.
Then Blood Elves happened and a lot of people, especially Night Elf Players, migrated to them. The Alliance is still bigger than the Horde, and Blood Elves are pretty much 60 to 80% of the Horde Population, with the actual Horde races (Trolls, Orcs, Tauren and maybe Goblins) being a smidge on the sidelines.

>>47130458
The humans from stormwind are supposedly all ex refugees from the first war so they cant be THAT many.

>>47131238
Not really. A race of stereotypes, like all the other ones.

>>47131238
>Blizzard keeps pushing them but nobody likes them.
Blizzard keeps using them as dungeon fodder and filler antagonists. Nobody likes that. Most Troll fans kind of think Blizzard's handling of them sucks.

>>47131914
But are they good for anything else? They just seem like people who constantly shit things up because "WE WAZ KANGS N SHEIT".

>>47131958
>But are they good for anything else?
Sure. They've got their own rather advanced magic traditions, alchemy, gods, and architecture. They're a more developed and complex race than Orcs.

So, are Orcs actually good for anything other than being a bunch of savage war-obsessed villainous trash?

>>47131914
Honestly, the only potential they have outside of antagonists is if they decide to use Zuldazar as a neutral or quest hub.

Other than that, the Darkspear could just fill in the ranks of dark magic users that aren't warlocks, in the Kalimdor Horde. Blizzard hasn't exactly given them a lot to work with.

>>47128386
>>47128573
>>47128730
I like how Blizzard abandoned the idea of "Ogre Lords" after BC and added the Ogron in WoD to do the same thing.

the genocide job the Horde did on the Gorian Empire was also pretty impressive

>>47132238
They could be, a lot of the history of orcs is a blank page. Waiting to be filled in.

I sort of hope they don't fill it in though, because they'd probably be super boring about it and fill it with warfare, instead of adding actual depth to the race

>>47115092
I vastly preffer Christie Golden books

>>47120940
No he's fucking not.

>>47132259
I think the Grian Empire is supposed to have fallen off into the Nether when Ner'zhul blew up Draenor, along with most of the Arakkoa.

Them retconning the Ogres to having had a powerful empire, when all we've ever seen of them pain them as dumb brutes, was kind of odd, though. I supposed they wanted some villanous faction that wasn't Orcs or Orcs+Demons. Not that they really did much with them (there's the raid, but you don't really interact with them when questing, aside from that one questline in Talador).

>>47132385
>I think the Grian Empire is supposed to have fallen off into the Nether when Ner'zhul blew up Draenor, along with most of the Arakkoa.
but even before it blew up, the Warsong Clan still managed to collapse their empire so hard that it turned most of them retarded (assuming of course that the Gorians existed in the MU and weren't just made up for WoD.)

I did really like the idea that the arakkoa we saw in BC were the rejects of an ancient civilization that weren't even native to Terokkar Forest, while Skettis wasn't the impenetrable fortress it is in BC until every avenue to get there if you can't fly exploded

>>47132491
Even in the Gorian Empire most ogres seem pretty dumb. It's just that their leaders, the ogre mages, that were smart.

I do agree that the stuff they did with the arakkoa was neat. They were already pretty cool in TBC, so giving them more lore is definitely one of the best things from WoD. Plus it's pretty interesting how they reverse the normal light/shadow thing. One of the few times we've seen ashadow portrayed as good and light as bad ("the sun burns, but shadows keep you cool" or whatever one of the arakkoa NPC said), and the PC teaming up with the shadow-using Outcasts to take down the evil, light-using Adherants.

>>47131659
I remember doing the statistics on my server sometime during Wrath. Literally, two of every four Horde PCs was a blood elf paladin or a blood elf death knight.

I swear, the RP scene was never the same once the belf DK arrived on the scene.

>>47131238
>>47131914
Then again, fans got mad when the obligatory troll raid (and I think one other 5-man) were scrapped in Wrath. There were teasers for the raid throughout Zul'Drak.

>>47133732
>tfw WoD didn't have a troll raid

>>47129852
whitemane would be the 3rd type which can effect anyone. or potentially its a 4th now with bolvar or whatever

>>47133732
I loved Zul'Drak as a zone. The aesthetic and theme behind it (Aztec ziggurat city, trolls self-destructing out of panic due to Scourge threat) was great. I'll always remember what that Zandalari scholar said when you start entering the upper layers.
>Pay close attention, <class>. You're witnessing the fall of a troll empire firsthand.

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>>47133746
They ran out of tribes

>>47134105
they could have had Vol'jin and all the shadow hunters that appear out of nowhere get corrupted

>>47134244
Demon zombie vol'jin and his band of darkspear traitors?

hmmm... this has potential

>>47134244
Siege of Orgrimmar 2: Trollectric Boogaloo??
No thanks.

>>47115277
If by drama you mean joy, sure. Fuck Vol'jin.

>>47134393
>Fuck Vol'jin
Not Garrosh, not Thrall, not Sylvanas, not Khadgar

Vol'jin

The fuck is wrong with Vol'jin? Sure he's a very boring leader, but honestly "boring" is the best the Horde can do

>>47134465
He's probably one of those kids who think Garrosh dindu nuffin and "orcs da best!"

>>47134348
nah
Vol'jin and his shadow hunters get corrupted and go to Draenor
builds some troll ruins on top of some arakkoa ruins
starts channeling the untamed Draenic loa to enter his final form and stop the Legion and everyone else forever

>>47134496
Well that's just fucking stupid

>>47134662
everything Vol'jin has ever done is fucking stupid so it's perfect

>>47134715
tapping the brewfest keg is stupid?

I mean, that's the only thing of note that he's ever done

Well, that and helping Rexxar and friends a bit

>>47134737
He also became a monk. Guess combining that with him being a shadow-hunter makes him officially a ninja.

>>47134737
taking 6 years to kill a level 7 quest mob is pretty stupid

>>47134894
Ah, but that's something he DIDN'T do that was stupid, not something he did that was stupid

>>47110496
When void lords die, do they turn into Light?

So what the fuck happened to the original mannoroth from Warcraft 3? If demon's do not die in the material what happened to him.

Why is Mannoroth of draenor a fucking skeleton?

HOW DOES THIS SHIT WORK?

>>47134946
Demons can die for good on places of high feel energy, the big book they put out tells us so. Reason why the demons in Tanaan died.

>>47134946
Ignore everything WoD has told you about the lore

Problem solved

>>47134946
>So what the fuck happened to the original mannoroth from Warcraft 3? If demon's do not die in the material what happened to him.
he blew up and got banished to the Nether
>Why is Mannoroth of draenor a fucking skeleton?
because Gul'dan saved his bones to rez him

>>47134965
So the Draenor mannoroth died because his own blood infused the area with enough fel energy to die forever?

Good god.

>>47134965
That sounds backwards. "The only way for the demons to be defeated is for them to win first".

>>47135001
Well that Mannaroth most likely got pushed back into the Nether. Reason why Gul'dan was able to use his bones to bring him back to life. There wasn't enough fel energy and there were no spiritual attacks.
Mannaroth on Azeroth was found in a dark forest saturated in fel energies enough to kill him for good.

>>47135030
It does seem backwards, but that's how the book describes how to perma kill demons.

>>47135030
To me it still sounds more like "neener neener neener, all the important stuff involving demons in WC3 and BC amounts to bugger all!"

>>47134965
I thought it was specifically in the Nether, for the same reason DnD demons (and angels and other similar beings) die on their home plane: when you kill a demon in the physical universe, you send its soul back to its home plane (DnD demons have no distinction between body and soul like mortals do, so sending the soul back to its home plane is effectively the same as it resurrecting there; not sure if WC demons work like that but considering they res in the Nether after getting killed, there's probably some similar mechanic in play), but if you destroy it in its home plane, the soul has no place to go and the demons essence gets blasted all across the plane, making it very unlikely to be able to reconstitute itself.

>>47135093
They do die in the Nether, it's just hard to get there. But with enough fel energy, or where the planes between the realities bleed into each other, demons could die for good. Or you destroy their spirit.

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>>47134942
>When void lords die, do they turn into Light?

yes maybe. the chunk of shadow shit that they used for the ashbringer became light infused once they hit it with enough light power

i think naaru just flip back and forth from naaru to void gods

>>47134465
He's this pandering fucking wuss of a character. The only person wussier than him is Thrall. His personality literally exists to be "not whatever it is the horde tumblrina hippy beatnik love box doesn't like." He had promise at the start of Cataclysm as a "dark justice" styled warchief candidate, but he did nothing at all through cata, and became this fucking fantasy Shonen friendship protag.

Awful.

>>47135800
I've always assume the crystalline shadowy thing they purified to use for the Ashbringer was a chunk of a Naaru that had been corrupted by use of shadow magic, and blasting it with light restored it to its original state.

>>47118724
Im not gonna say arm-attachment but i feel like the poweful women just end up getting their lovers taken from them or something. But i am uniformed so whatever.

>>47135800
>>47137450

I wonder if that has some connection to Shadow Priests, and the relationship between Light and Shadow/Void.

>>47137456
Is Malfurion gonna die?
Then Tyrande can finally pick the better man.

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>>47111956
>watch the Legion cinematic trailer
>Vol'jin doesn't even get to be in it, instead it's all Shillvanas

I haven't seen such a shitty character get waifu'd this hard since Final Fantasy and Lightning.

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>>47137450
well again we have seen at least 2 or 3 times that when naaru get weak they turn into void gods and its stated to be part of their "life cycle"

so void gods and narru seem to be different life cycles of the same thing. possibly flipping back and forth between light and dark forever

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>>47133746
>>47134105
>yfw Zul'Jins severed hand that gained sentience of its own comes back for revenge
NEVER GIVE UP
NEVER FORGET
NEVER DIE

>>47137048
Well, it's pretty clear that Blizzard has no real interest in Trolls as protagonists. People wanted Vol'jin for the "dark justice" thing and also because Troll fans just wanted their race to be relevant, but it never paid off.

Instead we got the Monkey's Paw version, where they gave him absolutely no cool moments and made him Warchief for no other reason than to kill him off.

>>47137656
Well, only loosely. The Cult of Forgotten Shadow seems pretty into the relationship between Light and Void.

Well, you know how people were hoping they would handle the Night Elf Paladin thing well?

http://legion.wowhead.com/quest=43934/a-new-path
>Long have I followed the path of the Light, and for many years I studied under the Priestesses of the Moon. Yet, I have always felt my education incomplete, and a yearning to know more.

Everything is the Light now. Even the Void is the Light, if we interpret Chronicles that way.

>>47138747
Hey, there's a light nathrazim, nothing can surprise me now.

>>47140005
>light nathrazim
Wait what?

>>47134946
>So what the fuck happened to the original mannoroth from Warcraft 3?

He exploded and his spirit returned to the nether where it reformed.
Then he went to alternate Draenor to corrupt the Orcs there but got Gromed.
Gul'dan collected his bones and then used them to res him.

>>47137984
>>Vol'jin a literally who at this point
>>worst warchief because he does fuck all but talk like a racist cartoon
I'm sure he'll die of a severe hemorrhoid infection before the invasion even starts, and good riddance to bad garbage.

Can Forsaken be created from any old pile of bones? Does it have to be fresh? Is it only a chance you'll get a free-willed undead instead of a mindless skeleton?

>>47141335
skeletons can be sentient, but the more of the original body is intact, the easier it is to force a soul back into

>>47141254
>racist cartoon
>cant depict niggers the way they actually are because das racist
>cant depict niggers in ways they arent because das white washing

remind me again why we allow liberals to live?

10$ says you think depicting women with breasts is also sexist

>>47141445
...So hypothetically you could raise some dumb alliance footman who died way back in the battle for Mount Hyjal and has -no idea- what the fuck is going on in 'current era'?

>>47141473
I don't actually care about black people, I just hate trolls that's all. He's just a stereotype instead of a character and was only chosen to be warchief because all the other options were worse than him.

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>>47141254
Show me on the doll where Vol'jin touched you anon

>>47141473
>remind me again why we allow liberals to live?

Tolerance.

I wouldn't even say Vol'jin is a racist cartoon though because trolls are pretty clearly an amalgamation of Meso-American/Caribbean cultures, both pre-Columbian and post-Columbian. What's racist bout using an accent certain groups among those peoples speak in? There are problems with Vol'jin's character, but I wouldn't say racism is one of them.

>>47140078
One of the paladin's followers is a Light-infused dreadlord.

>>47141495
apprently dead spirits retain only memory before their death

You fight Lord Ravencrst and his solldiers' ghost in Legion, and they are all still stuck at WoTA era and think you are demon footsoldiers.

Gonna be honest here, any kind of discussion of WoW lore post-cata is moot. It's been garbage after that and has been nothing but stupid comicbook tier one upmanship of stupid ideas.

>>47142188
I find it more interesting to imagine how I/you/we/whatever would have continued the lore from WOTLK on out.

Hell, even BC on out, as there's definitely parts of BC and WOTLK that could have been done far better.

>>47142287
Oh no doubt. If I could agree to cherry pick select bits I would say War 1 -> WoW vanilla.

Not saying any game is perfect, but that group leaves us with the most potential.

This is what happens when you have two dozen people all writing the same story on their own, you get this hodge podge story that varies in quality depending on how much someone cares about the setting. (or if their best writing is LOL XD SO RANDUM)

Would making a campaign based around 'less ridiculous Warcraft' work? I really want to make trash mobs scary to the players, kind of like Tucker's Kobolds, kinda. I want my players to feel the kind of terror and triumph that comes with wandering into a dark cave filled with enemies, and coming out alive for a reward. Or, should I pick another source that would be more fitting to that concept?

>>47142328
I actually really like most of the factions in BC. The Arakkoa, Ethereals, Ogri'la and the Sporelings were much more interesting than half the stuff we ended up seeing in WoD, though the Arakkoa expansion was pretty neat.

>>47142339
>Would making a campaign based around 'less ridiculous Warcraft' work?
Probably. A lot of the trash mobs weren't jokes when they started out. Troggs are a serious threat to the Gnomes, the Centaur almost wiped out the Tauren, and I believe Chronicles mentions there being a serious war between Stormwind and a massive Gnoll army.

Hell, Murlocs could actually talk when they were first introduced, and they managed to fuck up both the Alliance and Horde forces on the original Darkspear island.

Playing it the way you suggest just means not reducing any race to a one-note joke about candles or weird gurgling noises.

>>47142599
Agreed, there's a lot of stuff that could be picked out of what is otherwise shitty writing. Hell, even Knaak wrote up the Dragon Aspects.

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>>47142339
>>47142645
Oh, and I almost forgot. There was that short story where Garrosh and his personal guard got their asses handed to them by a bunch of Quilboar.

So long as you take them seriously, they're real threats to even some of the greatest of warriors.

>>47142339
The most intelligent "monster race" in warcraft is, as pointed out by >>47142948 quilboar. Centaur come close, but they consider strategy "weak"

Use Razorfen Kraul

>>47142339
Trash mobs WERE scary way back when. Depending on your class, level and gear, pulling more than one mob was likely to result in your death unless you used a healing potion. Some classes struggled with killing even one in their early levels, most notably warriors and pre-pet hunters, and even after that there were certain mobs with abilities that could hard counter you (silences, accuracy debuffs, damage immunities...). You wouldn't know it from the state of the game today, but the reason murlocs became such a meme is that their wide aggro ranges, clustered positioning and tendency to run away to get help meant that they were some of the deadliest creatures in the game.

The closest example to Tucker's Kobolds might be the Defias Pillagers. They used to be infamous among players, on account of their highly damaging fireballs that meant that you were REALLY FUCKING CAREFUL about how you made your way through Moonbrook.

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>>47143093
Well, I also mentioned that Chronicles made Gnolls a serious threat to Stormwind itself back in the old days. They actually tried to call in backup from the other Kingdoms because of how bad it got, as the Gnolls apparently had raided about a third of all of Stormwind's settlements.

Their Packlord and his personal guard actually had an epic battle with Stormwind's King and his knights. Oh, and the Gnolls weren't being stupid about how they fought their battles either.

>>47143491
>playable gnolls never

It'd be better than half of the rest of the shit Blizzard has trotted out over the years.

>>47143550
The only thing worse would be playable furry fantasy race, aka Saberon.

>>47143550
Seriously, Gnolls would be perfect for throwing their lot in with the Horde. Alliance would get Quillboars.
Both races are sick of the other faction farming them for early level XP.
>>47143566
Saberon are already an alternate cat form for druids. Not that very many use it.

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>>47143550
>>playable gnolls never

>mfw

Just looking at >>47143491 makes me angry that this never happened and never will happen. I would have totally RP'd a gnoll as one of the Hyenas from The Lion King.

>>47143566
There's already three playable furry races, what damage would one more cause?

>>47143578
>Not that very many use it.

Because its a DPS loss.

>>47143616
It is? I don't play a druid, I thought it was just a cosmetic thing.

>>47143163
Holy cow. I'm not really one to wallow in nostalgia, but those fucking defias pillagers man.

>>47143593
Have you seen their caves? There's shit everywhere. It even got me mad how much shit there was everywhere. It was right next to the head of a bed one of them was sleeping on.

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>>47143669
>It was right next to the head of a bed one of them was sleeping on

So they're efficient, which puts them at a higher evolutionary standing than your average elf.

>>47143163
>the reason murlocs became such a meme is that their wide aggro ranges, clustered positioning and tendency to run away to get help meant that they were some of the deadliest creatures in the game.
I still piss my pants when I hear that gurgling call coming at me from behind.

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>>47143633
No, it allows you to cast certain spells without shapeshifting back to caster form. Its a PvP talent.

However, many prefer to put their point into blood talons in PvP. PvE players will put their talent in Lunar inspiration to cast Moonfire in cat form, because PvE number crunchers tend to be Nazi's about min/max.

Its also why Savage Roar isn't going anywhere in Legion, some Dev (and some theory-crafters) thinks it defines PvE Feral Druids, so they wasted an entire talent row so that they can have a retard-filter with tan illusion of choice.

>>47143829
Ah, my bad. Thought it was just an optional cosmetic replacement of cat form.

>>47143858
It will be in Legion. Its supposed to be a glyph.

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>>47143716
Apparently there was Mongrel Horde concept art for them too.

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>>47143902
But yes, they could probably be a real threat.

>>47143983
They were really bad for me as a low-level Warlock in vanilla. Voidwalker was complete shit at holding aggro and my only absolutely only defense was fucking Fear, which meant I'd send it running right into more fucking mulocs.

What's with the boner for corruption in Warcraft? It's like nobody is in control of their own actions when it comes to becoming evil.

>>47144272
Laziness, I'd say. If they can't think up a good reason for a dude to go evil and still want him to be a Raid boss, they go with corruption.

>>47144272
because everyone loved Arthas, so they tried to Arthas every other villain in the franchise

>>47144321
This too. Warcraft's team has way too many nostalgiafags on it, and they don't really seem to know why the idea they're trying to remake worked in the first place. It just ends up being a shallower and shallower reiteration every time, until it's been reduced to nothing more than a joke.

That's the story of Warcraft for you.

>>47144432

Arthas wasn't interesting because he was corrupted, he was interesting because his morals were slowly eroded over the course of his story, the corruption of frostmourne merely finished the path he was already on.

>>47144612
Exactly.

Blizzard keeps trying to redo what worked, but they've forgotten -why- it worked.

>>47145574
Not that they've forgotten, they keep hiring outside hacks to write for them.
And scrubs from failed MMOs to work on their mechanics.

>>47144612
>>47145574
they're trying to switch it up and have people get corrupted into good guys now. ie the Light Dreadlord and the Arakkoa in WoD

>>47145660
>and the Arakkoa in WoD
Wasn't that more just pre-corruption due to the nature of that timeline?

>>47146132
The Order of the Awakened faction (the one that's composed of both High and Outcast Arakkoa) is fluffwise supposed to be created due to the players' actions, so you cause some of the evil Arakkoa to turn good, which I suppose would count as reverse-corruption.

>>47146450
Or redemption