>DM: Lay off with the "My parents/family/wife died"

>>47068024

You would think have some kind of family and friends to go back to would make for potentially good story telling and people complain about murderhobos but then you realize you create them by killing off any connection to the NPCs they could possibly have beyond "Are they useful to me"

It creates an annoying vicious cycle. GMs who wastefully kill people characters have relationships to encourage the sort of murderhobo with no relationships, which makes it harder for them to engage with the game.

It's a really hard habit to break once it's set in. I've actually had to help a few players who had almost been broken by GMs like that recover, letting them trust that I wouldn't just murder any NPC they liked or wanted a connection to, and showing them that you can create a more compelling game experience by involving characters rather than just killing them.

I do think that kind of GM is just incredibly wasteful and unimaginative, but it's just an aspect of the larger issue, where so many GMs see death as the worst thing they can do to a character. Death is boring. If a character is dead, sure there's the revenge motivation, but it's so played out by now. Putting them in peril, creating tension and building conflict takes more work, but it can be so much more fun in practice.

>>47068087

It's annoying, to be entirely honest. You put work into roleplaying out those interactions and then the DM strips it away for cheap drama.

Yeah, most of my characters come from happy families, I use a d6 roll to see how many immediate family members my character will have.

I do wish dms would stop using family members as plot hooks especially as hostages; or worse as victims to be avenged.

I like being able to have an imaginary home to return to.

>be GM
>have characters with histories, one of which has a small, but loving family while the others are estranged, orphaned, or just plain assholes
>take the family hostage
>give chances to get the family back
>everyone rallies and works hard and gets the family back

The feels were good.

>>47068210
See, that actually sounds like a productive arc.

>>47068024
My DM knew that when I rolled up my character that part of his story would be that he would be looking for his two "brothers" that he grew up in the orphanage with. We ran into one of them, and he was dead being puppeted around by some bad stuff. Still haven't found the other one, so for his own safety I will stop looking for him during the current adventure.

>>47068024
I've never had a GM who actually did this.

>>47068024
If you had a plan for conquering some tract of land, and some assholes were actively trying to kill you and everyone who works for you.

Why would you/why wouldn't you kill their families?

Spite is an amazingly cathartic endeavor, and with actual people, they aren't always going to go Liam Neeson, a lot of people are going to fall into despair and retreat.

>>47068632
Admittedly it does depend on the alignment. That's definitely a very LE viewpoint.

I think kidnapping would be more effective though.

>>47068632

'It makes sense' does not excuse shitty storytelling.

>>47069128
Really?

That definitely depends on the situation.

If they have every reason to suspect it'll happen, whether they anticipate it or not, and it happens, that's only bad storytelling if you're bad at telling it.

>>47068024
>play Human Fighter
>farm hand who married childhood sweetheart and has two young children
>tried the settlers' life but when that didn't work, became sword for hire
>while adventuring, find put family has disappeared
>whole group is invested in finding my wife and kids
>goes on for a couple sessions before finding out wife and kids kidnapped by bandits
>track them down
>fight our way through
>find wife in bandit leader's bedchamber
>DM describes the scene, detailing her as wracked with pleasure as she eagerly bucks against the bandits massive member
>DM grins as he describes my wife begging for the bandit's orc cock as another orgasm overtakes her

By this point we were all in disbelief and didn't know how to proceed. I tried to roleplay through the situation, figuring he was going for some shock value (i think he thought it was funny), but then he started with how my character's wife had been doing this all along and my kids were really the orc dude's, blah blah blah.
The game ended a few sessions after that. I think it just weirded everyone out too much.

>>47070384
>The game ended a few sessions after that.
>a few sessions

>>47070384
This is why every character I play has no surviving family and does not marry. I've yet to meet a GM who won't exploit it.

>>47070475
You should stop playing with 4chan.

>>47068024
For some reason, that picture always makes my eyes drawn to the drink. Never the girl.

Dunno why either, she's quite easy on the eyes.

But on topic, I've never had that happen to me. Most likely because our current party is literally family of Dorfs. I'm the Old Drunken Grandpa Dorf Cleric of the Dorf God of War and Alcohol. Everyone else is either lawful or at least non-chaotic. It's fun being the crazy grandpa.

>>47070575
It's the prominence of the drink in the frame and the fact that her body is positioned such that she's pointing toward it.

This basic impulse to pay attention to what whoever you're observing seems to be paying attention to is how magicians manage to do what they do.

>>47070384
I will never understand DM's that shove their fetish in everyone's face, and I'll also never understand NTR/Cuckold lovers.

>>47070747
>I will never understand DM's that shove their fetish in everyone's face
They're shitty people and this is the only way they can ever do anything even vaguely sexual involving another human being.
>and I'll also never understand NTR/Cuckold lovers.
I think in most cases it's a humiliation fetish that got out of hand.

>>47070575
>you will never get to go on adventures with your whacky dorf family as the grouchy grandpa

why live

>>47070384
Nice post, I'll save that in my 'Things that never happened' folder.

>>47071091
It's >>47070470 that gave it away.

>>47070470
By that time I'm pretty sure we were done.
We had already sat through the crucifixion of a suspected witch. Shit rolls meant we never did know if we got the right person so we sat there while he described the whole gory ordeal.
As I said before, I think he just loved to shock us. We limped through the next little bit, but just ended up getting tired of it.
He's retarded most times, but he's my brother and one of the better DM's we've had.

>gm wants detailed list of what the character can do and has you rigorously pick out gear by his standards at chargen
>session starts with you as a slave in a land far away
>you will never see the gear again
>what you did before is discouraged and npcs will shun you for any attempt to blend in
>like this every game you play because he is the only other person who will run games

Fuck this hobby.

>>47068556

Lucky you.

>>47069364

Waking up and finding everyone you've ever known is dead is not something that'll inspire the average person to greatness, in fact, it does the opposite.

The reason why it's such a shitty thing to do is because you're effectively severing every possible plotline that could've been made during this character's arc just to attain a blip of drama that most people will see coming a mile away and inspires them to never waste their time coming up with that much character detail ever again.

Then you get ready to tell a story of wonder and excitement only to discover that everyone made nameless mercenaries who kill shit for loot and only interact with someone about as far as they prove useful.

I have my characters spontaneously care about them as much as the GM did. "Oh, that's nice. How many pieces? Man, that'll be hard to bury. I guess I'll leave them for the crows."

>>47070384
Wait - was the wife human too? Since your character was human, you'd think he'd notice goddamn half-orc kids.

>>47071492
Run games yourself.

>>47068024
Reaction A: Make all your named family members really badass, so you can at least hope to hear about their rad last stand if they do get killed, if not participate in it yourself.
Raction B: Make your named family members obvious villainous antagonists to your character. I'd expect an adversarial DM to gleefully add them to the party's rogue's gallery rather than kill them off.

>>47071937
I do, he is the only one who runs games besides me so I have a chance to play.

I go out of my way now to run as long as possible and always have game ideas on hand.

Story arcs with family members that don't involve killing them.

>Character's younger sister is dating a guy you secretly suspect/know to be the BBEG, but for some reason you cannot tell anyone.
>Character's family member needs help moving to a new home, but they found some weird things that look magical in the basement and they want the character to check it for traps/possible resale value
>Character's great great grand uncle just died and left his house to the next of kin that can spend the night in the house, but everyone died who spent time in the house
>Character's nephew/little brother has gone away to the big city and joined a dangerous group of political revolutionaries
>Character's mother/grandmother asked you to find and deliver a message to someone before she died
>Character is an orphan, but it turns out one of their parents is still alive an important member of the community
>Character's child is showing signs of a rare type of magical talent and needs to find someone who can educate them properly

>>47071923
She was human...i did mention he (DM) was retarded right?

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>>47071406
It's time to sit down with him and have a come to Jesus meeting.
If all else fails, be a real brother and tell you peanuts he's into some fucked up shit.

>>47071956
We did that once. Basically other than another PC, my character wanted to torture/humiliate/murder/enslave every other member of her family. It was a good day after a year and a half when we finally got to break the spirit of my half brother by killing his dragon waifu.

>>47068024
I heard of a Shadowrun game where one player decided to have an NPC mentor who had died in front of them. One who was definitely dead.

The GM decided to spite the player by having the storyline involve two different ghosts of the mentor. One being a regular ghost, another being some digital ghost (I'm not familiar with Shadowrun), with the two ghosts in conflict with each other.

>>47068087
>Putting them in peril, creating tension and building conflict takes more work, but it can be so much more fun in practice.

Indeed. The rule I try to follow is that if I put a PCs friends/loved ones in peril, they can always be saved. But the cost of saving them might not be a price the party is willing to save (depending on the themes I want the campaign to have).

If the loved NPCs keep surviving, I can keep using them. Killing them only works once. If it's a setting with resurrection, then each resurrection will lessen the impact of killing off NPCs as players realise that they can be bought back.

>>47068632
>Why would you/why wouldn't you kill their families?

Taking the family members of a murder hobo hostage can help you control them. Turning the family member into a corpse only adds revenge to their list of reasons for coming after you.

Remember, we are talking about opponents who the BBEGs minions are having trouble killing because, if the BBEG could kill them, they would already be dead.

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>>47071975
Should've told him that to his face. At least bring in a human bandit if you're going to play at that sort of thing.

I can almost imagine the poor creature looked at what you'd made - loving childhood sweatheart - and thought, "Oh, he must be into my fetish too!"

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>one of the PC's family members turns out to be the BBEG

I wonder if anyone's ever done this.

>>47070575
>for some reason
You're a gay alcoholic, anon.

>>47070747
>and I'll also never understand NTR/Cuckold lovers.
Well if you believe such things as evolutionary psychology, seeing your mate getting dicked from someone else is suppose to make you extra horny so you immediately fuck her again, only extra deep and cum extra hard so that your sperm out compete the other guy buy numeric advantage. The horniness serve to facilitate this.

In fact the theory goes human penis has that funny mushroom shape specifically to scrape out semen from the previous guy.

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>>47068024
>mfw when this happened in a mutants and Mastermind.
>My parents where hard-core survivalist in the Black Hills, or at least like that crazy gun toting couple from Tremors.
he should have never allowed me to role-player their fucking parents.
only picture i have to what happened.

>>47068087
>players who had almost been broken by GMs like that
My first D&D campaign ever I had some weird shit happen to me. tl;dr a shade ate my soul and became bonded to me. At first me and him discussed implications and it seemed really cool. Eventually, once it got adjusted, it would basically be a manservant who rode in my shadow/personal assassin. It had my soul in it, so I had to be careful not to get it killed, but whatever.
Sessions later all his promises lay shattered, and he railroaded my character's death through the shade.

It was a long time before I felt safe having companion NPCs of any kind.

>>47068024
As a GM, I've never done that.
As a player, I've never had that happen.
I should probably count myself lucky.

>>47072895
I'm actually rather surprised that a GM would reach back into a character's backstory to mess with things. It seems petty, especially when most campaigns will quickly take things far away from a character's backstory.

>>47073105
I actually have had the players stop by their families' residences on occasion, usually on the way to or from some adventure or another. I also throw in little things, like the Warrior Summoner(from a port town) seeing the dusty little ships in her bedroom that her dad made for her each year on her birthday, but with her being off on adventure, he just left them there as a reminder. Or the Mentalist(son of lesser nobles) nearly getting crushed to death in a bearhug from the elderly, heavyset maid that helped raise him whenever the party stops by his parents' farm.

>>47072302
I have and it can work depending on what you do.

>Shadowrun. Characters brother doesn't like that he goes on runs.
>Runner brother doesn't seem to question his younger brothers life at all. Occasionally just asks, "Where is he?" "What is he doing?" and thats it. Never asks him personally what he wants or wants to do.
>Younger brother despises brother runner. Sees all shadowrunners as scum and mercenaries who treat people [even family] as a commodity or tool for use
>Younger Brother is going to school and excelling, has offers from different corporations to work for them already.
>Younger brother has signed on with one, knowing his brother has targeted them before.

They say the loyalty of a dog is by how much delicious raw meat you toss him. Good thing humans are made of nothing but delicious raw meat.

>>47073547
It's a perfect use of assets. He knows his brother's criminal activity, can keep an eye on him and round him up seemingly miraculously when his corp is targeted. He'll go far in the zaibatsu. I can just imagine him practicing "I know who my REAL family is, sir" in the mirror.

>>47072355
But Anon, I don't like men that way.

Happily married for 43 years now. I wasn't kidding when I said I was the crazy Dorf grandpa. I'm 66.

>>47073637
Indeed

And again his brother isn't questioning him anymore when he "suddenly" takes an interest in what he does.

Especialyl when the others make it seem like its nothing but puberty when he gets irritated or goes around the house, in their private rooms.

Its just a matter of time before he either gets caught, or leaves the house completely and gets his own penthouse on a better corporate lifer contract.

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>>47068024
As a GM, I have a different problem:
>players have living parents
>They will inevitably show up at some point and tell embarrassing stories about the character's childhood.
>to the BBEG of all people

Okay, not really. My GMs have been pretty cool about my characters and their family. Of course, that's because I tend to work with them so they can be incorporated into things:

>One of my characters is a mafia child who ran away and made a family with his master and fellow Martial Adepts
>GM has the mafia side of his family try to kill the party while the fellow adept students helped out in quests as guest party members

another GM:
>my PC lost his wife and kid and father is lunatic cyborg (Game was based on Cyberpunk)
>GM makes the father a recurring antagonist, though because they're flipping mental, they've ended up inadvertently bailing the party out of tough spots.

>>47073809
That sounds fucking adorable

>Lich kidnaps Paladin's mother
>Paladins mother is either a full on Jew or Christian mom
>Won't stop talking about how cute he was with his wooden sword during the Lich's monologue.

Speaking as someone from a Jewish family, the last person I'd want my mother to meet would be a potential BBEG

Yes, that is ahead of girlfriends. That isn't as bad as you'd expect

>>47068024
Mourn for the appropriate time, re-marry a bit before confronting the BBEG just to spite your retarded GM.

>>47073748
please give him a complete makeover where he starts slicking his hair back and wearing animated tattoos, snorting powdered spells and generally crying out for attention

>>47073878
Slick back hair is a most likely. Kid is interested in the corporate look.

Then again it all depends on the party. There are a few players who carry the "If you are here to jeopardize the plans, I will chainsaw you in half without a second thought" types.

>>47073702
dude why are you on 4chan holy shit

did you ever see the Grateful Dead in concert is my second question

>>47073702
Holy shit, Grognards are real.

It's honestly awesome to know people like you are here. Party on Dorfbro

>>47071956
>A
That's actually what I did with my character as an explanation for how the hell the guy that crit fumbles every four encounters survived being a nomad for multiple decades, he was an XP leech. Though funnily enough I'm the only guy with a perfect game attendance record, so my character actually has the most experience points out of the whole party.
My current plan for him is to try and track his family down after all this time, but we're going on a bit of an extraplanar adventure with a lot of combat projected in the near future, so hopefully he'll be able to live until then.

I'm socially retarded, don't understand how human interactions work, couldn't realistically roleplay a character with rich and fulfilling relationships.

>be DM
>make cool NPCs for characters to engage with. Oftentimes camaraderie forms quickly and set out for quest
>die during their first excursions to some retarded AoE they really should've saved against.

Everytime.

well im glad i dodged all these bullets.
i am currently running a pathfinder game where the current story arc greatly involves the PC's backstories...one of the PC's family got split up during a large battle and he is currently out to find them. (yes they are all alive but in varrying conditions of health) i feel that by giving the PC's someone to connect to and reliably go to is a good thing..

one of my other PC's (female rogue) had gotten pretty badly hurt in a gruesome fight that left her unable to have children, so she went and adopted this cute little boy and girl who had tried to pickpocket her. while it is difficult on her some times i by no means punish her for her choice nor do i intend on taking them away/killing them because i dont want to discourage noble actions or prevent them from establishing relationships out of fear of the NPC's death...because it no longer becomes fun after the PC's become so worried about connection they avoid social iteration all together

>>47068024
One of my favorite characters was deliberately designed to hit on as many fantasy cliches as I could manage (and some the DM actually ended up making unknowingly happen).
Obviously, every one of his family members minus him and his brother was either dead or evil before he stepped into the first session.

>>47070575
>>47070651
Also, the perspective is kind of off. The table and drink seem almost like they're near the center of a fisheye effect, leading your eyes to the drink, and because this effect of perspective isn't applied in any way to the girl, it makes her less dramatic. Everything about the image is drawing your attention to the drink because of the way it's arranged and drawn.

>>47068632
Because it's a game you fucking goon.

>>47068173
One of my favorite "one guy is missing" sessions is to have on the PCs return to one of their hometowns and everyone does comfy, low risk quests for his friends and family

>>47068024
This is why I make most of my characters orphans.

I can't stand GMs who do this shit: it's not okay. It's okay to put the family in danger and shit, but kill them off screen just because is one of the douchiest things to do, it fucking sucks: I mean... I play the game to get away from reality and all the random deaths that occur, not to just sink in deeper because the GM thought he needed some extra cheap drama or someshit.

I have a tendency to play characters whose family actively wants to kill them. My current character (pathfinder) is a catfolk barbarian/fighter/horizon walker. He's the eldest son of a mighty warlord far in the southern continent (past where the basic map goes). However, he's an abrasive dolt and is considered a poor fit for rulership so his father made up a bullshit "vision quest" that he had to go on and sent two family friends to basically lead him somewhere far away and inaccessible and ditch him. My character being an idiot thinks this is part of the test, then immediately starts going in the opposite direction from his home. His family pronounced him dead and gave his inheritance to his smarter younger brother.

>>47068024
Had it one time when GM was trying to pull us into a plot we were really uninterested in. Turned out the recurring antagonist we were trying REALLY HARD to ignore (he appeared as nothing but GM's attempt at morality wank + Fantasy Batman) kidnapped our character's parents. Reactions:
>edgy AF assassin: "If I ever have to meet my parents again it would be only to MURDER THEM MYSELF they hated me abused me every damn day before selling me off on a slave market for a couple of silver pieces I FUCKING HATE THEM"
>barbarian: "I'm fairly certain that I killed my father. Anyhow - he's dead to me. And women aren't really people, so..."
>sorc: "My parents are dead"
>paladin (me): "Oh. W-wow. They are actually still alive? I mean, I genuinely thought for years now that they just died of old age back in their home. They're gotta be in their late 80s by now. Well, whatever - I haven't seen them in about 20 years and we have more pressing issues to deal with other than saving a couple of senile old folks from a man who SHALT NOT KILL anyway, so - pass"

>>47068024
>"Oh yeah my family is still alive and living in [unspecified location]"
>GM tells you that you receive news that your family was killed
>"Oh I doubt it, the messengers description doesnt sound like them at all"
>BBEG presents you with the disembodied heads of your alleged family
>"Nope, I dont know any of those poor people"

>>47073809
Its nice to see the medic from tf2 take a more offensive role.

>>47076433
>Not going in with an ubersaw+medigun pair

>>47072379
Eeeewww

>>47068024
2 of my players' characters had a family and I used them both to great effect without fridging them
>dwarf was married to a smith who he was afraid of. Would make armour for the party and threaten him.
plot points included
>adopting a goblin while he was out adventuring
>a fetch quest for valentines day
>discovering where his new "son" had gone after a 30 year disappearance.

and an eladrin's family
>don't understand non-fey
>all chaotic neutral at best
>the player character was lawful good
>excellent fighting force in the sense they were a force of nature that crushed any non-eladrin in their path.
>lots of tense situations
you don't have to kill npc to have npc be useful

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>>47076205
>I'm fairly certain that I killed my father. Anyhow - he's dead to me. And women aren't really people, so...

Our DM incorporates our backgrounds into the story.

I played a bitch of a Sorceress from old money and older blood who kept finding she had more and more enemies as time went on.
Her family had been using her name to bully other nobles and the upper classes to build up their political capital. She was mad about this and on returning home to sort things out the party found a civil war had been brewing and half the parties families were getting embroiled in it.

>>47068632
Just because you can justify something doesn't make it a good idea to implement it in game.

You can justify via probability the odd BBEG choking on their breakfast and dying before the PCs have their showdown
You can justify a random Avalanche burying the dungeon you were just about to enter
You can justify a gang of Leprechauns jumping out the bushes and kicking you in the balls for no reason.

That doesn't make any of those good ideas to put in a campaign

>>47072302
That was such a shit plot.
I have my baby for a total of twenty minutes before it's gone and my husband is fridged. Literally.
>Ten hours later.
Who the fuck are you?
>I'm your son.
fucking Who?

Absolutely no emotional investment at all.
Miss Journalist secretly being a Cylon would have had a more emotional impact.
And their voice acting and the constant diologue wheel breaks certainly didn't help at all.
If you're going to railroad my fucking character that much, then just give me a fucking cut scene of their reunion and call it done.

>>47075375
stealing this

>>47072302
Now that I've had my little rant to answer your question, yes.
He wasn't the BBEG, we had killed that group just prior.
He was an early plothook that had fallen by the wayside, where my Sorceress and her sister, the Cleric, were being stalked by an unknown figure.

Our characters were orphaned by a fire that killed our rather large family that both of them blamed on my character.

After an argument and being publicly disowned by her sister, my Sorceress went off on her own where her stalker finally caught her.
Said stalker happened to be her brother she thought had died in the fire that claimed everyone else.
He had set the blaze to sacrifice everyone for some demonic ritual which he's postponed because to of his sisters survived.
It was clear our DM desperately wanted to make him the new BBEG and had done a lot of work behind this idea but our party not taking the bait all that time ago had pushed the plan to the wayside. She was winging it by the end and admitted that the only reason he even came back is because we finally were pursuing this plot-hook.

Things got resolved rather anti-climatically as the party caught up and he got beaten into submission before the two sisters decided to take him back home for judgement. Meanwhile there is a pissed-off Demon Lord plotting away in the background.
We toyed with the idea of continuing the campaign, and may actually do so at a later date but for now, it's over.

>>47075375
>>47077611
Seconded.

>>47068632
They are adventurers, it takes a lot of effort to find out who they care about and where they are. It takes more effort to send someone after them (remember you're a BBEG because you're busy - you have more important shit to do than go fuck with some chumps family).

It's less effort to go after the party directly, and it's more likely to result in something you actually want.

And ultimately it's low effort shitty storytelling done by shit dm's who are looking for shit ways to create 'drama'.

>Go the route of saying my character doesn't know his family because I didn't want to make a big backstory
>DM tricks me into an Oedipus situation

That bastard.

>DM is all about muh realism
>playing a gritty, true to life medieval adventure
>with Elves, Orcs and Tieflings
>party consists of: 2 Humans, Dorf and Tiefling cock tease
>first major town hangs Tiefling for witchcraft
>Dorf dies of infection after barely surviving a bear attack
>Human 1 eventually dies of some bowel disease after eating tainted meat and drinking stagnant water
>Human 2 returns home to family
>family died of black plague a month ago

I hate you Kevin.

She was staring at him when he opened the door, he wasn’t surprised. He had spent too many years coming home to find her in that same spot waiting for him, watching as he went about his routine. Hat and jacket off and on the rack, keys in the bowl, check that the door is closed properly. He could still remember her copying him when she was a little girl, before things got in between them, before the split happened.

He knew she would sit and wait for him to talk, she was always stubborn like that so he felt no guilt as he poured himself a glass of whatever he had been drinking last night. ‘She was proud of you you know. She would go around bragging to all the other mothers about how her daughter was a fleet captain, the “Pride of ‘Tulia” was what she use to call you.’ The old man was already refilling the glass as his daughter just sat and listened. He was hoping that his hands would stop shaking soon, there wasn’t much of the bottle left.

‘She was happy you missed the last few months. She didn’t want you to see her in the hospital with tubes keeping her alive, wasn’t her way. Hell the only reason she even let them take her there was because she collapsed in public. She only told me when she couldn’t walk. Needed someone to water her bloody plants I guess’. The memory made him chuckle. The glass was empty again but at least his hands had stopped shaking, it made refilling it easier.

>>47078429
‘I’d offer you one.’ He went on gesturing to the bottle and to the woman across the room. ‘but I imagine you aren’t here to drink and share war stories with the old man. Yours will be better than mine anyway. Your brother’s were sure better than mine, don’t look at me like that you get to fly around in space battling on other planets. My war was simple, easy. One patch of dirt, two trenches and death in between. Your mother never really forgave me for letting him join up you know. She knew what it was like on the ground. I still remember the fight they had when he told her, she damn near broke his legs to get him to stay. I should have tried more to stop him too I guess. I was too proud of my boy being accepted into Jumpers School. Too proud and too stupid.’ Feeling her eyes on him he emptied what was left of the bottle into the glass and decided not to go find another.

‘We weren’t together anymore in any practical sense when it happened. I think your mother knew that it wasn’t going to be like our war. She told me the day he shipped out that he wasn’t coming home. I didn’t believe her of course. Your brother was the best the academy had seen according to his officers.’ Smiling at her he nodded. ‘That must run in the family, just skipped my generation.’

‘You were already in school when they brought him home. Three men, not the usual two. I guess war heros do get special treatment. I was away from the house when they arrived, never forgave myself for that you know. Mothers shouldn’t be handed the flag and told that their son was killed in combat by strangers. By the time I got home she had already left.’ The tears were creeping into his voice now but his eyes remained dry.

>>47078443
‘She took the flag but she left him with me.’ He said waving towards a small wooden box sat on the kitchen table, a metal badge shining up from its lid. ‘I never thanked her for that. They use to bring the boys home you know, back when we only had one planet. Buried them in rows, as if they would one day get up and take parade formation all over again. There is dignity in that, now however the army just ships back a little wooden box filled with your dead kids medals and a note from his commanding officer. Fucking army.’

Silence descended over the room as memories took the old man to far away places in better times. The girl sat there silent as the night, watching her father, waiting for him to speak again.

‘I am sorry I sent you away.’ He went on, the drink was gone now and his head was singing but he needed to finish what he started. ‘I should have kept you here. Protected you from all that was happening. I just couldn’t, I was already a weak old man. I could just hide it better.’ The grin across his face carried no joy or humor.

‘When you got accepted into the fleet I was so proud. My little girl was going to be a ship captain, up there in the stars on board the safest things designed.’

‘I think she was already sick by then. With how widespread it was at the end I doubt she didn’t already know when you finally got deployed.’ The shaking was back now but the old man was beyond noticing.

>>47068024
>GM introduces us to a sea port with all kinds of lovely NPC and we're an established guild and famed local heroes and shit.

>about three games in most of them are killed off by some spider disease and the group disbands.

>GM responds passive aggressively by replacing NPCs lost with assholes, like non LG paladins and a druggie wizard with an undead succcubus wife who held us captive to decide whether or not she should kill him for abandoning her and their daugther.

The encounters are fun at least, but holy shit there is no incentive to role play anymore.

>>47078453
‘I have signed back up you know. Shipping out next month. She told me not to but with her gone there isn’t anything keeping me here anymore. Just an empty house full of bad memories and ghosts of the past.’ Sighing the old man rose from his chair and walked over to his daughter. ‘I am not going to sell the place. I am going to leave it for your brothers son. It's the least I could do for that poor boy.’

Taking his daughter in his hand the old man lead her through the house. ‘While I am gone I want you to take care of everything for me. I can't trust anyone else to watch it who isn’t family.’ Setting down the little wooden box next to its twin he let his fingers trace over the engraved metal on top. ‘I know you will watch over this place the best you can.’

Standing back the old man looked down on what he had left of his children. The two little wooden boxes with their shiny metal badges reflecting the moonlight would be there to haunt him of his failures again in the morning and now he was completely alone.

>>47068173
Just like these American TV show. The family and neighbours only exists to be love interests, victims or culprits.

>>47073702
I wish I could play with cool older dudes, most groups I get are edgy faggots who wanna wank to their PoW character all day.

>>47078383
I hope you gouged your eyes out properly.

>>47078383
>implying this is a bad thing.

I've been waiting to play with my bard for ages now. A half-elf distanced from a family of noble humans (in an elf-ruled world. Dad was mom's boy-toy and he couldn't say anything when the brat was dumped on him, or the realm would strip him of his title).

>Always a wastrel, dodged his duties as the lord's son to party and help in the town
>Argues with his much more serious brother on EVERYTHING
>One day, a violent storm threatens the region
>Landslides wreck the town and bard runs in to help evacuate the people
>Returns home to find the manor's been half-destroyed by another landslide and his father is dead
>Sister, step-mother and brother are still alive
>Brother rages at bard for abandoning his family in a crisis and chases him out
>Bard is wracked by guilt and flees
>Next morning, a servant brings his lyre and a few belongings
>Tells him his brother has assumed lordship and cast the bard out
>Leaves to find adventure and hide his identity, but there's still the matter of the family he left behind

It's just been one thing after another though. First the GM's wife was in hospital, then HE was in hospital, now his kid's started teething... Starting to wonder if we'll EVER start!

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>>47078408

>Black plague and executions for witchcraft
>In a setting with FUCKING magic

If you want to be gritty, don't throw this kinda stuff in D&D, I swear to god, your GM is the most special of all special kids.
Use Ravenloft or stuff like that, I don't know.
Or, you know, try a low fantasy / no magic system.

>>47078568
>implying he went to a fucking tabletop game with his guy friends to get off
putting magical realms in your game is like ordering pizza for your friends and making sure to only get toppings you like, then acting proud in your preferences instead of just being a decent human being.

>>47078878
>I bought you a fucking pizza
>You're gonna complain about the toppings I like

Nigga I ain't gonna make you eat it, shit get your own pizza then.

>>47079008

>Hey guys what kinda pizza do you want?
>Pepperonic
>Extra Cheese
>Beef
>Okay, I like anchovies so I'm gonna get that

No, fuck you!

You better pay for that pie yourself faggot.

I don't even like pizzas.

>>47070384
(You)

>>47079063
I am and I'ma eat it myself while I watch you starve bitch!

Imma give the crust to my fucking dog and make you watch him eat it all, and if you don't like it get up out my traphouse!

>>47072272
>Image
Thanks for reminding me that Pururin is dead.

>>47077422
To be fair, all of those just gave me ideas for sessions:

>Party finds BBEG/important NPC with information that they need, and he/she/it is dying (disease, choking on food, bleeding out from wound, doom/curse magic?) Party must stabilize/heal/save the character before it is too late, also find the culprit. Upon failure, information may be found in character's personal effects as well.

>Dungeon is in the mountains, as the party leaves, an avalanche begins (caused by the BBEG?). Party must escape by travel rolls, magic, or vehicles (introduction of airships? Eagles? Capture?)


Leprechauns kick your characters in the shins and run off. The party may attempt to capture one to find out why (high DC, but possible), or if they're more of the "leprechauns are jerks, they don't need a reason" type, they can continue on to the next town. EIther way, upon investigation, it becomes apparent that certain residents of the nearby town are suddenly wealthy...Bonus for making the gold thieves obviously evil if your party wants someone to smack around, or alternatively, making them saintly and unaware of what they've done. This can lead to them giving it back, a contest by which the leprechauns try to trick them out of the gold and the party has to intervene, or just make the leprechauns jerks, and have a battle against some magical tricksters who know polymorph. (Lead in to introductions of the Fey Courts and their games).

>>47077422
>That doesn't make any of those good ideas to put in a campaign
The leprechauns are pretty good tho

>>47078408
>Kevin

>>47079457
His DM is prolly a minion.

>>47079457
What about it? It's my name, you know you could have asked, but oh no , it's "Creature of shadows, do my bidding." this, "Spawn of darkness, harken to my will on." that, I mean have you heard yourself!? Have you?

Am I the only one who had this on audiobook?

>>47078668
I (briefly) played a CG asimar rogue. The 8th child of a noble family, he was initially seen as a blessing. He disbursed them of this rather quickly.

Lazy, flippant, and prone to very public practical jokes at the expense of the nobility, he very quickly became the black sheep of the family.

The game died after like 3 sessions, because our asshole dm stopped showing up. I usually don't reuse characters, but Thaddeus might need to be revived at some point.

>>47072302
BRAVO TODD

>>47079101
consider suicide

>>47071406
>brother

If my brother started doing that in his games I'd be asking him straight away if this served any purpose what so ever and could he please stop.

Well, actually it'd sound more like this;
>What the fuck man? Cut this shit out!
But it pretty much means the same.

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>>47079378
>this manchild doesn't eat the crust.

Somewhat related: most of my WHFBRPG characters are from the same extended family from Northern Tilia (the northern bit mattered: fimir live in the swamps).moat of 'em were mercs, but they also had a thriving chain of bakeries, taverns, and Tilean restaurants throughout the Empire and Tilda. Trying to wipe out the family would have been impractical, but the least because anyone who tried would have ended up with 50+ angry, well-trained crossbowmen showing up on their doorstep within the month.

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>My players made all their characters brothers from an usurped royal family
>Both of their parents are alive
>Along with their uncle, their youngest brother, their sisters, and their grandmother
>I put a lot of work into each of their characters
>I have no plans on killing any of their family

Feels good.

>>47072302
Not even once.

Especially not, like, the most popular space opera of all time.

>>47073809
>Blade bayonets on flintlock pistols

How's he supposed to reload that thing without jabbing his hands?

>>47078408
Why didn't you just play Warhammer Fantasy?

>>47079427
>>47079409
An old GM of mine used a gang of ninja midget trapeze artists to stop an Edgemaster whenever he tried to pull grimderp shit after he'd been told to knock it off.

It's a surprisingly effective tactic.

>>47077422
>You can justify a gang of Leprechauns jumping out the bushes and kicking you in the balls for no reason.

"No reason? You know damn well why we did it boyo."

Funny thing is there's probably justification for this to happen in any campaign.

>>47083105
Go on...

>>47083979
He was a good bloke in general, but he had an annoying habit of going OTT on the edginess whenever we had downtime.
Excessive murder, rape, arson, etc. He got told to knock it off, of course, but it still bled through in his interactions.

So the GM started reminding him not to pull that shit by fucking him about whenever he tried something, justifying it by pointing out that, after all the shit he had pulled, it was only logical that his description had been noted, and bounty hunters and vigilantes started to set themselves up if they knew he was in town.

The fact that the groups happened to be composed of Ninja trapaze midgets, who would swoop down upon him whenever he had a victim cornered and humiliate him in various ways while dodging his futile attacks, and a gang of clowns who tied him down and painted his face, was pure coincidence.
He tended to get the hint, go straight for a few sessions, then relapse when he thought he could get away with it.
The final one was the most memorable.
I'll always remember him saying "Now I have you, my dear" and hearing
"OH NO, LITTLE MAN, IT'S I WHO HAVE *YOU*!"
and then finding out that the young girl was actually the famous bounty hunter Sir Randal the Savage under an illusion.

>>47084165
>Sir Randal the Savage

OOOOOOH YEEEEEEAH

BOOOONESAW IS READYYYYY

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>>47084165
I wish my GM did shit like this

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>>47084165
>Sir Randal the Savage

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>>47084165
>Sir Randal the Savage

>>47077552
I find it odd how Bethesda makes an entire game series that leaves your past up to you each time, and generally doesn't railroad you too badly, but with Fallout each time they've made a game they just can't manage it.

>>47068024
My DMs are pretty good about this sort of thing. I have one character with a large family who've all been supporting characters. Another character's parents turned out to be, tangentially, part of the BBEG's plan, but they ended up estranged rather than dead. The only time I've ever played an orphan wasn't to avoid plot hooks but rather to create them - he killed them by accident when his powers started manifesting. I try really hard to name some backstory characters, and then my DMs are decent enough to make use of them. It's nice.

>>47068024
Had a DM that did this.

My backstory was that I was violently kicked out and disowned because I was a warlock.

Being told his ex-family was executed by Lord Doomy McSkullston was regarded with little more than a shrug and a mental note to send him a thank you.

>>47068024

>DM: Lay off with the "My parents/family/wife died" backstories. Not everyone needs a tragic backstory.

>proceed to write an even edgier backstory about how every single person from my past is a raging cockhole, and I became an adventurer explicitly to watch them all die (and then harvest their souls for the purpose of making shiny magic items).

Either the background NPCs come to harm (character's happy about it) or they don't (spared the bullshit on an OOC level).

>>47084757
>generally doesn't railroad you too badly
You know, to me there are two types of railroading.
One is the usual Choo choo follow my story or else. You know, the usual.
The other is more like a train that stops in every station so you can descend and fuck around there. You can't leave the station but you can stay there as much as you like.
Thing is, you can't advance the story in any way since you are trapped into that station/stage until you get into the train again. Now don't get me wrong, this is way better than the alternative but it is still jarring to be in a train station where only a single train passes by with no other alternative.
Skyrim seems to hide this fact very well (Those train stations are city-sized) and in Morrowind it is almost imperceptible (Mostly because you can get off the train and simply walk over the rails at your own pace and under your own terms), can't speak for Oblivion since i haven't played it.
Now Bethesda Fallout... Well, see what i mean? Only one that let's you be who you want to be is New Vegas where your past is only refered to sporadically, like in Skyrim. But that one is more the work of Obsidian thna anything else.
What i mean is that they both styles are railroading you, badly, but the second style is more acceptable since it is a videogame and there are limits to what it can react to.

>>47068024
I remember in my first game I intentionally gave my character a family, and I even worked it into his motivations my roleplay. Then the DM spent the entire game explicitly threatening to have them raped and killed until we eventually dropped that game after a few sessions and moved on to a different one. Needless to say I don't give my characters a family anymore.

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>>47085050
I wouldn't really call most of that railroading, personally - like you said, if you're going to have a story in a videogame, you have to set most of it- or at least most of the branches - up beforehand. You can only pull a Dark Souls where there's very little direction and you can essentially do everything you need to do in any order you want when you abandon any attempt to plan out a story beforehand. Calling it railroading gives it a negative quality that it can't do anything about, unlike a TTRPG.

That said, Skyrim is fairly obviously railroading. Morrowind started you off tenuously and gave you a lot of freedom to go around, since you'd need to level up some anyway and they knew you wanted to explore the world. But Skyrim does a lot to pound its story into you during the cutscene, and each of the story events tries to give you this sense of haste. You're more the Dragonborn than whoever else you want to be, and your options are more limited than they used to be. Oblivion had some of the same problems, but not as bad, in my opinion.

But you are really right that none of that holds a candle to Fallout 3 or 4. I haven't played 4, but I have played 3. I still do kind of like it, and feel that it had a lot of wasted potential. But its most grievous sin is how it forces a backstory on my character that I can't really control, one that honestly doesn't make me awesome. At several parts in the main quest I'm just bawling for my dad and being treated as a kid, nevermind if I fought my way across the whole wasteland by this point. And it so obviously wants me to be good - the evil questlines are honestly a joke, and the main quest has a good versus evil thing going on. It just never tried to really give any sort of freedom, and that annoys me. And the only good town was Rivet City, and there were a lot less options in general.

>>47078383
My GM ALWAYS does this to literally anyone who has unknown families. It is always a beautiful person that just appeals to all of the characters tastes, and has a personality that is a perfect match for him/her, and makes both pursue a romantic relationship, and at some point, it will be revealed that it was actually a parent or sibling, and it is ALWAYS that close - not even cousin or uncle or some shit, just sibling or parent.

He let this one guy get married and have two (normal, thankfully) children, before SURPRISE, IT'S YOUR SISTER!

Fuck you Jerry.

I got a feeling he did it to force us into actually considering our family, rather than taking the "fuck it, don't remember them." route.

Is it bad that ive never played a character with a real backstory? It sometimes feels lazy but I kinda prefer to have whatever I do as I play a character to be what defines them.

>>47085955
If your playgroup is fine with it then it's not really a big problem. I'm the same way. Sometimes I'm not set on a personality or backstory until a session or two in and I've got a feel for the setting and character

>>47085920
>He let this one guy get married and have two (normal, thankfully) children, before SURPRISE, IT'S YOUR SISTER!
Jokes on him, that's my magic realm!

>>47085460
By the station analogy i meant:
>In Morrowind you can kill various, heck probably all, important characters and still complete the story
You can get off the train, travel in it the whole story, get off in a station and explore it, take a bus to your destination, walk throught the wilderness to it, follow the tracks. Whatever. There may just be only ONE destination but the ways to get there are many.
>In Skyrim you can get to Ulfric/Tulius but you can't kill them, no matter what you do. At least for now.
In this case, if you get off the train there is a big "do not cross" tape all around it, sure every station in massive but you can't do stuff that you should be totally able to do.
It is like a DM saying "No, you can't kill the enemy general here no mattter what... Because you have to kill him later in this AWESUM scene later". At that point, why even put him there at all? Don't leave him within my reach if i can't deal with the problem my own way? It is not even "There are forces that prevent you from doing that"(Like Sheogorath in Oblivion, there it makes perfect sense), nope, just "Lol, he gets up"

All roads leading to the same place, each on its own way it's perfectly acceptable railroading. To the point where most people wouldn't refer as such because of the negative connotations of the term. And that's okay.
But Skyrim is very railroad-y. In the traditional sense of the word.

>>47086613
The essential thing could have been handled better. It was intended to make sure NPCs didn't die due to errors or random events, so they should've made the PC able to kill them but nothing else.

The problem is Skyrim doesn't get you invested. At one point, I argued in favor of having NPCs be essential (because it's fun to play devil's advocate sometimes) because you shouldn't want to kill them anyway, so why bother? Though I didn't realize it then, that was the core of another essential point: in Morrowind, the entire game was built around ideas of perspective, making choices on what you chose to believe or not believe, stuff like that. So you might actually have a reason to kill Vivec when the time comes. Skyrim, the writing and story is so poor - not bad in most cases, really, just not great - that there's rarely any emotional investment, nor anything to push the other way and make you hate a character or want to kill them.

Though I would like to note that in Morrowind, killing Vivec at most points gives you the 'doomed world' message, so you're not supposed to kill him most of the time anyway.

>>47068024
BANE?

>>47070384
BIG ORC PRICKS
tiny human dicks

>>47085920
Hot.

>the PCs' families have a dinner together where they exchange embarassing stories

>>47087059
>Party get invited over to dinner with on player's family
>Player's family keep teasing him and telling embarrassing stories from his childhood

>>47087144
>the PCs are invited to a relative's wedding
>the brother of the groom hit on the Ranger

>>47087144
>Why don't you have a girlfriend?
>When are you going to settle down?

>Tied last Fighter into the organization the party had been working with for part of the module
>Meet up with the last of them
>Every remaining member except for an NPC dies in combat, including my Fighter
The guy will never be fleshed out because my group's rollplaying every day and it's just a shitty Paizo module, but damn, that'd hurt.

>>47086884
They work for That Guy
The Railroada man.

>>47087352
>implying they're not gonna assume the cute rogue is your gf

>>47087352
The real final boss is one of the PC's nagging mother. I can just imagine when she turns her gaze toward the other party members.
>Keeps trying to feed the party wizard, insisting he's nothing but skin and bones
>Lectures the barbarian about proper manners and polite speech
>Forces the rogue to wear a dress like a proper lady

>>47087436
>So is [Rogue] your girlfriend then? You're always hanging with her after all. By the way, I want to see my grandkids before I die.

>>47087490
>last member of the party enters the house
>it's an half-orc

>>47068024
Half my backgrounds are little more than 'Got bored and wandered off' which is hilariously close to my own life, trans-atlantic and all.

>>47086771
You can complete the game after killing Vivec, you only need the guy from the Corprusarium alive.
I disagree with Skyrim not having hateable characters, there are plenty. Most are unkillable.
Disgusting jarls...
And the "NPC not dying to random events"? Ugh, i hate vampires now

>>47087436
>she explains to them that she's NOT your girlfriend just a little too forcefully

>>47072302
>institute
>the bad guys

>DMs that refuse to give you setting information so that your character feels more organic in the world

>>47088604
>but DM, I'm from that world!

>>47068632
>a lot of people are going to fall into despair and retreat.
Do you really think the people with the weaponry of a small (possibly large) country split betwixt the ~4 of them are going to fall into anything BUT Liam Neeson quality revenge plotting? Come on man, think with your brain.

>>47071091
>nothing happens to anyone ever, everyone lives in a big grey box with a food pellet dispenser just like me!

>>47072379
>Well if you believe such things as evolutionary psychology
then you're already a moron who is roughly 40 years behind everyone else in the psychology community. evopsych is the "vaccines cause autism" of the psych world.

>>47073105
I generally ask how much my backstory is gonna come up in a game for this reason. if the game is going to see my character going far and wide, then my backstory is gonna be bullet points. If we're staying in one place and it will matter, I put in more effort.

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>>47073894
when he shows up, just use this picture.

>>47088819
Just like evolution!

>>47088647
Of course they will, because they're meta-gaming caricatures rather than sentient beings.

>>47071973
Have you talked to him about the problem?

>>47071795
>in fact, it does the opposite.
See
>>47068632
>a lot of people are going to fall into despair and retreat.

>>47077422
All three of those things sounds like great ideas.

>>47068024
I'm still working through that bullshit as of now.

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>>47081752

Here, here sir!

I like to reward my players for giving a damn rightful about their characters as much as they reward me with being studious and an engaging audience.
Roleplaying games are best done when the group is a good troop including the Master of Games.

Too many times, as Masters of Games be, forget their role as storytellers and use the chance to undercut their chosen most ally without a due of parley.

Just audacious. Attrocious. Proposterous.

>>47087352
But I do have one.
Sorta.
It's the dragonborn barbarian, and I'm more his girlfriend.

>>47071974
>Character's younger sister is dating a guy you secretly suspect/know to be the BBEG, but for some reason you cannot tell anyone.
>imouto not lusting after onii-chan dick
Immediately dropped.

My GM actually kind of did an opposite thing.

>character is a half elf raised by human grandparents
>she wanders off because muh adventure
>meantime, war breaks out and they're on the border with the neighbouring country
>she wants to split with the party but realizes the futility of going into a warzone by herself and that she's probably too late

Now it doesn't really matter so much anymore because said character died and I made a new one, but the GM says that the grandparents are indeed alive because of a side thing my character did. I'm not sure how it all ties together though and he won't tell me because spoilers. I do hope to find out at the end of the campaign.

But just to live up to the meme there was one other character who lived close to the border though not as close as mine did. The player wrote up an awesome and detailed backstory (and even shared it in the form of a few drabbles, it was very neat), where they were part of a noble family of some sort. Welp, city got invaded and their father was killed. To give the GM credit the rest of the family was spared, and the death of the father is logically consistent with his character and the world (he tried to be a diplomancer and reason with the enemy to the bitter end).

I think all in all, the GM has done OK and it's been a good campaign. My new character has a really big happy family and I hope he's able to do something interesting with it.

>>47085920
Goddamn that presses all the right buttons.

>>47074144
> GM keeps putting in retarded AoE he knows will kill party, or fails to prompt party to rollsave.

>>47091484
I mean usually I don't drop the AoE bomb until the end of the encounter

>>47068024
>Character has father, halfbrother, and stepmother
>doesn't know anything about her mother and is a bit different; reacts poorly when differences are pointed out
>character gets into trouble and politely advised to go adventuring before trouble comes home to roost

>distant lands
>character turns out to be directly related to major noble family of distant lands
>like, heir (except for the little fact that her mother got disinherited... or, like, seceded?
>all these feelings that had been laid to rest years ago
>bitterness, resentment at mother who's never been a part of her life
>decide "Fine, you know what? If they didn't want to have me for a daughter, fuck them. I'm going to adventure through these lands, become so famous that *they* come asking *me* for acceptance."
>accidentally spark war
>fight for the family that doesn't acknowledge her because she'll be damned if they get annihilated before she gets her satisfaction
>rescue mother
>emotional; drama;
>eventually kinda... make up
>oh god, my heart

GMs who just kill family don't know what they're missing, famalam.

>>47070384

I have actually used this setup before as a DM but replace the cucking with an elaborate plan done by the wife of said player who hired some "bandits" to pretend to kidnap her to get her husband's attention. It ended with nobody getting hurt because some of the PC's were clever enough to figure out why the bandits(who were really secretly disguised members of a travelling acting troupe) were running away as soon as someone got hurt or too close in combat.

>>47068059
>>47068087
I think a cool idea would be to have some of the relatives become adventures themselves as well and then meet with the PC group at some point.

>First 5e game
>Playing a 5e moon druid
>Giving the DM balance problems because moon druids are pretty hard to kill at low levels
>Lack of RP reason to be in the plot, my character's only goal was to reach level 2
>Ask to retire character and make a cleric or something
>DM says he'll think about it
>Hour later "the dragon BBEG destroyed your entire druid clan so now you can't retire"
>o-ok

same DM, different game
>playing as a heroic, loving father of another player
>game starts out with rogue government officials trying to cut off said player's hand
>rage and kill them
>DM says he didn't expect me to fight them

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>>47071974
Some nice ideas. Thanks for inspiration!

>PCs come back after a fierce battle with the current BBEG
>paladin is dead from heroic sacrifice saving the party, and is beyond revival
>they have to tell the paladin's parents about it

>they forgive the party and look... empty at the funeral

>one player actually starts crying

DMs that kill off NPC relatives don't know you can hurt the players even more in better ways with them.

>>47068024
"Stop having a tragic backstory. I want to give you a tragic STORY. Much more fun."

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>Gm kills off my alchemists family, fuck even his childhood dog in front of him when he was 8 as part of intro session
>forced to live with family that hates him until finally taken as apprentice of insane alchemist who teaches him the way of the fuck huge explosions
>character now socially stunted and homeless
>Gm acts pissy when alchemist isn't willing to try diplomacy and just wants to fucking murder the parties issues and continue his research into undeath
I'm still not sure how he thought it was a good idea, still having fun though, and not ruining any of the other players, thankfully, just playing my "character" GM.

>>47073960
>>47073915
It's funny to realise that eventually, the current generation is going to grow old and will probably still be playing same things.

Not just tabletops, I imagine raiding guild application in new blizzard mmo 50 years from now on - "I'VE BEEN RAIDING SHIT FOR SIXTY YEARS, YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS GOT NOTHING ON ME"

>>47071973
I dearly hope you don't let him play in your games. He does not deserve it.

>>47095348
Bullshit you can't retire. You're the last person who can pass on the knoawlage and name of your clan, you can't afford not to retire.

>>47068024
>DM: Lay off with the "My parents/family/wife died" backstories. Not everyone needs a tragic backstory
>yfw your family is actually dead

>>47072392
Looks like you got john wick'd.

>>47095622
It literally is though. If the GM is actually a good storyteller instead of some fuckboi, then "living" through the scenario is way more engaging than just having it as background information. Of course, from both sides, I do believe that either implementing them or horribly killing them is acceptable depending on the scenario. More often than not, killing them is just the cheap way to do things though. As GM, I've only ever had family members die under X circumstances. The most recent one was a sister-in-law who was also their fighter of a Lady-Mayor who was fatally wounded in combat. The Mayor's sister, who a PC was married to had been captured by the attackers so she commanded the party to go after them, hiding her wounds. I had everybody roll against her disguise, only the monk made the roll. Then she bluffed him out of it. Because they failed to notice her wounds, she was dead when they returned. The wife was threatened to be murdered when they arrived at the scene, but the EG decided to play a game instead (CE shenanigans).

tl;dr: Just killing off is normally not good. But playing through tragedy is better than backgrounding it.

>>47068024
I don't think I have ever had a dead family backstory, either by my choice or the GMs.

The closest would probably be a post-apocalyptic sci-fi game where the party had been cryogenically frozen just before the end. Obviously everyone we knew was long dead when we were thawed out a century later, but my character had already been estranged from his wife and friends for years before so it probably doesn't count.

>create leverage the PCs and the players genuinely care about
>use it

Would you prefer adventures and storylines that are entirely detached from the PCs?

>"The mayor of Peasantville has been assassinated! He was a really nice guy!"

Yawn.

>tfw parties have functioning well-protected families with character sheets and we visit them on holiday side-sessions and they help us on adventures
Feels good man

>>47097903
Outright killing off your leverage is cheap and wasteful, though.

>>47098107
>we visit them on holiday side-sessions
I'm gonna' hafta' do a Christmas session with my players, now, complete with families coming to visit.

>>47098162

In general I think it's better to go for it. Killing off family is the usual cliche, but it's better than the opposite:

>"A necromancer murdered my character's parents!"
>GM never uses said necromancer because he's scared of disappointing the player (or never read his backstory to begin with)

>>47097903

If the only way to create leverage is to kill off family members than you're an uncreative simp who should stay away from the GM's seat.

Maybe, rather then TELLING us that the mayor was a nice guy, you actually SHOW us that he's a nice guy and actually get the players invested in him as a person.

>>47098324
But then that's the same thing.

>"Haha GM, we really like that tavern owner! He was funny."
>"Well you hear that the bad guy burned his tavern to the ground and he died."
>"You only did that because we liked him."

No shit.

>>47098349
Well, yeah. Much like serving fresh whiskey to one's guests, killing NPCs that the players have only just come to like is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths. You need to leave it be for a long time to let it age properly, then break it out for a special occasion.

>>47098349
>>47098324

Here's the thing, if the players know that any NPC that they like is going to inevitably die in some horrific way just to generate pointless drama then they're just going to not get invested in the story since almost everyone they meet is going to either be an antagonist or a bargaining chip for the BBEG's designs later on.

You don't have to murder-fuck someone just to create drama and not every character you, as the GM, creates is born just to die.

It's lazy as fuck and is primarily done by hacks who don't understand that drama can be done in a way that isn't inherently lethal.

For example,

>Your father is four months behind on his house payments and might end up homeless if you don't find some money quickly.
>Your sister has gotten involved with a man whom you know is the BBEG but you cannot reveal his identity without putting her life in jeopardy.
>A local gang is shaking down the shoppe owner's business and have threatened him if he doesn't make the payments.

Each of these produces drama without offing anyone to produce it, which also has the added benefit of leaving open the possibility for these characters to appear later on in the story.

TL;DR: Killing shouldn't be the go-to option for drama when there are non-lethal ways to create it that don't sacrifice future plot lines.

>>47098429
Anon, >>47098349 will happen whether they've liked the NPC for a session or 50.

>>47098488

If the players have only a single other character they like, killing that character is generally going to be a poor choice as a DM.

The intention is to create a large cast of characters that the players interact with and appreciate. That way, when a character they like meets a tragic end it can be natural rather than forced and will be an exception rather than the norm.

If there is only one liked character you may emulate this by creating a moment of tension - say, having the tavern attacked - but resolving it quickly (e.g. tavern owner has an arsenal in the basement and overcomes the attackers with the player's help. This galvanises the tavern owner who gives them free lodging for the rest of the campaign.)

>>47097903

I really hate faggots who came off the Gane of Thrones bandwagon and view character death as well written drama.

When your general expectations of a new character is "wow, I wonder how much of a dick he is" or "wow, I wonder how the GM is going to murder them this time" then nobody is going to give a fuck about your campaign beyond the EXP and loot they find off the corpses of their enemies because everyone they encounter is either going to be an asshole or a victim anyways.

When your players start to think "I really don't care what happens to these people," you've failed at generating a story and the game will fall apart shortly afterwards.

>>47074098
welcome to 4chan.

>>47098810

Killing characters for pathos is a time-tested technique. And it's not like a television show or a comic book where the actor's contract expires, they lose the rights, whatever.

If you're a storyfag and want pathos, the likeable character dying is a good way to generate it.

If you're an improvfag, sandboxfag, force-of-nature-fag, whatever, the likeable character isn't going to survive the marauding orc hordes just because the players like him.

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>>47088480
Everyone knows The Minutemen were the bad guys.

>>47099026
If done right, yes. But many people complain if it's done purely as a gesture to jazz the story up. In RPGs or tv shows.

>>47099174

True, and I'll admit I'm guilty of that.

But I don't like how /tg/ vetoes the idea entirely, simply because it's a cliché and something every GM has done at some point. You can start in a tavern but still make it interesting.

Wouldn't you rather your GM read your backstory and do SOMETHING with it (no matter how simple/commonplace/tragic) than ignore your backstory altogether?

>>47068024
I don't trust DMs with love interests especially, because holy shit do they love the worst kind of disgusting drama with those.

>>47099241
Actually, no. If you won't make it good and have it add somethig of value to the game, leave it in peace and run shit that you're good at running.

>>47072379
This theory flies in the face of pretty much everything else we know about human sexual behavior. Hell the fact that your shitty fetish is so despised already shits all over this idea.

>>47099026

You're so retarded that you cannot think of any, literally, any other way to generate drama aside from offing off family members?

Christ alive, and I bet you're one of those people who go into THAT GUY threads and complains about how all your players are orphan mercenaries with no family/friends/contacts with anti-social *psst, nothin' personal* character traits and are only there to kill things, get XP, and gain loot.

There are ways of generating pathos without resorting to murder and even if you have to kill someone, it should be the absolute last resort and actually give the character's death fucking meaning beyond "boo hoo, he's dead, how sad :'("

>>47099241

>But I don't like how /tg/ vetoes the idea entirely, simply because it's a cliché and something every GM has done at some point. You can start in a tavern but still make it interesting.

/tg/ vetoes the idea entirely because more often than not, GMs are shit at handling it properly and it ends with people not giving a fuck later on.

You can theoretically start off in a tavern and make it interesting but honestly, why not just use that time, energy, and creativity to do something that hasn't been done to death in every other campaign since the 80s?

>Wouldn't you rather your GM read your backstory and do SOMETHING with it (no matter how simple/commonplace/tragic) than ignore your backstory altogether?

I'd honestly rather the GM ignore it entirely than see him throw out hours of my hard work just for cheap drama that ultimately adds nothing to the campaign.

>>47099496
>why not just use that time, energy, and creativity to do something that hasn't been done to death in every other campaign since the 80s?

Because it works, and some people want stuff that's been done to death. I've been playing RPGs for about fifteen years and I've never once encountered a mimic. I guess "the chest is a mimic" is too obvious at this point, which is a shame.

I want humans, dwarves, elves, and halflings, as bog-standard as those are, because they're the races I think of in fantasy games. I don't give a damn about tieflings, dragonborn, or drow.

Keep in mind you can make these things more interesting. D&D 5E's DMG says to use "familiar tropes with clever twists" which I think is the best way of approaching it. Avoiding taverns, dwarves, or orphans entirely is missing an opportunity to have fun with them.

>>47099865
>It works
Apparently not, or this thread wouldn't exist.

>>47071974
>Your daughter has magical talent
>You're adventuring to put her through wizard school.

>>47099897

/tg/ just has crazy high expectations for everything.

Dwarf fighter? Overused cliché.

Drow barbarian? Special snowflake.

I don't know what happy in-between land /tg/ strives for, but I think "familiar tropes with clever twists" is the closest you'll get. And "familiar tropes" is one half of that.

>>47100022
>Everything is /tg/'s fault

>>47099897
Surgery typically works, but if you needed an operation would you ever consider letting some shmuck off the street do it instead of a trained surgeon?

>>47099865

>Because it works, and some people want stuff that's been done to death.

People also get a hankering for McDonald's sometimes but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would willingly eat that shit when there are better alternatives available.

>I've been playing RPGs for about fifteen years

Who fucking gives a shit?

>I want humans, dwarves, elves, and halflings, as bog-standard as those are, because they're the races I think of in fantasy games. I don't give a damn about tieflings, dragonborn, or drow.

Okay, cool, great, good for you mate.

That literally has nothing to do with the argument and there are plenty of games where you can find generic fantasy races if that's what gets your rocks off.

>Keep in mind you can make these things more interesting. D&D 5E's DMG says to use "familiar tropes with clever twists" which I think is the best way of approaching it. Avoiding taverns, dwarves, or orphans entirely is missing an opportunity to have fun with them.

The thing that you're missing here is the fact that all the time and energy that you're wasting trying to reinvent the wheel could be be done to better effect by just making something that's original and interesting.

I mean, think about it, there hasn't been alot of campaigns that have started out with everyone inside of the belly of a titanic creature, or at the bottom of an ocean temple, or in motherfucking space, and people would be more interested in those campaigns simply because they'd be wondering where you'd be taking it.

Starting off a campaign in a tavern, to me, is like starting off a story with the protagonist waking up and eating breakfast, it establishes the character sure but it's also a scene that could've easily been cut out and gotten us closer to the actually interesting parts of the story.

>>47068024
Ah, from the John Wick GM's Handbook: Encourage people to create flawed characters and fleshed out backgrounds and support casts, then bludgeon them with their disads and abuse/kill their loved ones to establish 'tension' and 'urgency'.

>>47100022

Most of the time, they're either blatant stereotypes of what the players expect or they're just anti-X who exist just to say "our X is different" which idiots inevitably mistake for actual depth because they can't recognize that being different is not necessary the same as being unique.

>>47070384
DM just discovered the sick new meme of Cucking, or 'cuk'd' as the orcs say. Also, nice subtle racial metaphor, Mister Cool DM.

>>47100091

>Who fucking gives a shit?
>Okay, cool, great, good for you mate.

Relax, those were just examples of how at least one person in the world likes those tropes even after some experience.

>I mean, think about it, there hasn't been alot of campaigns that have started out with everyone inside of the belly of a titanic creature, or at the bottom of an ocean temple, or in motherfucking space, and people would be more interested in those campaigns simply because they'd be wondering where you'd be taking it.

Those would be interesting, but then wouldn't you have the reverse problem? You've started out with something different and exciting, but where do you go from there? What happens when they escape the titanic creature or escape the ocean temple? THEN do they go to space? Then a realm where abstract concepts are given physical form? Or do they just fight the usual monsters because you've ran out of exciting things?

I don't know, I'd prefer a setting that started small and usual but with some minor (in the grand scheme of things) twist. You meet in a tavern, it starts burrowing underground. You start in jail, all the guards are aliens. You see a notice from the adventurer's guild, but the adventurer's guild disappeared almost a century ago. THEN you escalate to bigger and better things. The story is what happens to the characters as they develop, it's not the grandiose hook the GM began the campaign with.

>>47068024
I never understood why it should be unusual for a wandering vagabond in a world full of war and monsters to have no family to speak of.

I've never seen someone play out an attachment to a background character with any sincerity unless that relationship was formed in game.

Sometimes I'll throw in a family member (long lost brother, uncle visiting the same town by coincidence) and see what they player does with it. If they become a recurring NPC, or even a henchman, great. If not--well, I'm not going to dangle Uncle Barnabus over a pit of lava just to shoehorn him in.

>>47100487
Actually, dangling Uncle Barnabus over a pit of lava can be great if you quickly establish that that's the sort of hijinks he gets up to on his own through bumbling and incredible debt to powerful people. It also works great if you make him hilarious.

>>47100374

>Those would be interesting, but then wouldn't you have the reverse problem?

Not if I take the time and energy to construct the world. Honestly, world building isn't really that difficult, it just takes a lot of time and energy coming with reasons for why a thing is the way it is.

>you've started out with something different and exciting, but where do you go from there?

Easy, since I've spent the time constructing the world and have come up with the reasons for why a thing is the way it is, now I just sit back and see how the players interact with the setting that I've put them into.

Maybe they find more survivors inside of the creature that have already made a living for themselves against the circumstances?

Maybe the ocean temple is a part of a greater civilization that got washed away thousands of years ago and they escape, only to find that they're in a sunken city and that, maybe, they aren't alone?

Maybe when they make it to space/metaphysical realm/etc. they find themselves involved in a plot that deals with forces bigger than themselves?

Who knows, but the events and lore is there to find, it's simply a matter of how deeply the players go.

Starting off with "it's just like what you're used to, but..." just inevitably falls apart once the novelty runs its course and you discover that it's still the same old bullshit except that now, the guards or aliens or the tavern is a mole or some other bullshit that doesn't really go anywhere.

Not to mention, all of those generic ideas could easily be skipped so that the adventure just starts with "you are released from prison and taken to a fort where the warden pulls off his face and reveals that he is not of this world."

>>47100582
>Not if I take the time and energy to construct the world. Honestly, world building isn't really that difficult, it just takes a lot of time and energy coming with reasons for why a thing is the way it is.
You're unemployed, aren't you?

>>47098239
and the necromancer knows the character's parents because?

>>47100610

No, I'm employed and next week I'm going to start working new hours.

Usually I'll just think of random shit and write down a note so I don't forget and then spend my breaks/free time expanding upon it.

"This temple is underwater...but why?" will usually lead to a good 10+ pages of lore if I just take to its logical conclusion and it will also increase from there once the questions start to beget more questions.

If you can't take at least an hour to work on world building then you're just not cut out for the hobby. It's not as difficult as you're making it out to be.

>>47100091
I think you mistake being different for actual depth.

Admittedly, my preferred structure is to start in media res, kicking in the door to the dungeon, and then going back to the tavern.

>>47101247

>I think you mistake being different for actual depth.

I think you missed the entire point entirely.

Also, don't think I didn't notice you stealing my words and trying to use them against me you uncreative twat.

>Admittedly, my preferred structure is to start in media res, kicking in the door to the dungeon, and then going back to the tavern.

Why do we necessarily have to go back to the beginning, why not just start the campaign at the interesting bits and just continue on from there?

We don't need to waste time going back to the slow ass start of the story just to figure out who these people are, when we should be able to figure out who these people are just by having us be introduced to the fucking characters.

I mean, think about it, Obi-Wan Kenobi was introduced in episode IV of Star Wars and we could easily see what kind of person he was just by seeing how he interacted with Luke, CP-30, and the like. We didn't need to go see fucking episodes 1-3 to see that shit and prequels in general are a waste of time because it's telling us shit we already know.

>>47070384
Were they 16? Sounds like something someone that age would find hilarious.

>>47071406
>one of the better DM's we've had.

I pity you.

>>47068024
>Playing low level Paladin
>Has wife and kids, happily married
>I sincerely believe my DM won't kill them for shock value

Naive though it may be, it's a good feeling.

One of my player's backstory boiled down to:

>Be elf with twin sister
>Twin sister shoots a holy Elk of Corellon
>Take the blame after sister flees
>Get punished for 20 years
>Become cleric

One of his main goals was to find his sister. I decided to have that happen fairly early in the campaign.

His sister's story went like:

>Take up odd jobs for a while
>Start protecting a group of traveling merchants
>Meet good-aligned Drow that escaped Underdark
>Form strong friendship
>Drow friend disappears for a few days
>Other drow attack the merchants
>Flee again
>Is hunted down by her friend, who has now been turned into a Drider for disobedience of Lolth
>Kill her friend
>Swear to overcome her cowardice and get revenge on Lolth
>Become Paladin

I was planning on having her either self-sacrifice to save her brother at some point, or become an antagonist if the party starts working with Drow (something which might happen due to a common enemy).

Are either of these better than what the thread is complaining about?

>>47101505
>Why do we necessarily have to go back to the beginning, why not just start the campaign at the interesting bits and just continue on from there?
You can't have highs without having lows too, anon.

>>47078465
Cool.

>>47101874

Unless you're playing a game like Traveler where your character can fucking die before the campaign even begins, it's just a waste of fucking time to everyone involved to go back to the beginning and explain why the PCs are there.

We're already at the dungeon, let's just take it from there and reveal details as they become relevant.

>>47101963
You say that like it's any significant amount of work to explain why the PCs are there.

>>47101995

Which, again, raises the question of why we're going back rather than starting off at the dungeon proper and continuing from there.

>>47102035
Because you need lows. We went over this already.

>>47079379
Tsumino, that is all.

>>47088604
What's the thought process with this one?

>>47102040

Says who?

For that matter, if you're starting off campaign with the PCs exploring this dangerous dungeon anyways, why not just have the lows come in later, after the PCs are done exploring the dungeon?

Why start off with high-octane chills and spills and then immediately dial it back and just to build up to the high-octane shit that you already achieved earlier?

Of course, maybe you're not as obtuse as I think you are so please, explain what you mean by "lows."

>>47068024
>specifically designed latest character with father dead and mother alive, but forced to abandon son for his safety at young age
>character lived in orphanage for most of life and is just now setting out to find his fortune

I'm literally handing my GM a story arc here and if it ends in my character's mother's death, I will riot.

>>47100130

Yeah except John Wick is a fucking retard.

>>47102138
It's pretty simple.If you're all high octane all the time, then high octane starts to become boring for the players. If you don't include dull but relaxed moments in the game, then the only way to prevent it from becoming a snoozefest is to continually escalate the intensity, and that typically leads to something burning out.

>>47070384
You know, this situation is a load of crap and I can't believe that you didn't quit sooner, but it gives me an idea.
Instead of describing some dumb fetishistic scene, what about something more subtle. The party rescues a player's wife from bandits and finds the children to be long dead and buried. It's been over two three since he's seen his wife. The wife appears unusually calm for the situation, and she has two new children. They aren't tied up or locked away, just in a room somewhere.
Let it sink in slowly. It's better to be remembered as the evil DM than it is to be regarded as a disgusting DM. This also gives the player time to think about what to do with his wife, or ex-wife as it may be. Also, there's the children to deal with.

>>47101786
Just remember, if it does happen, drop character entirely and say as sarcastically as possible; "how shocking".

>>47076426
This is pretty good.

>>47102851

Okay, I was wrong, you are being obtuse. My mistake, I legitimately thought that you had a point.

Here's the thing kiddo, there is never a situation where going back in the story is ever preferable to going forward.

If you want to add low points to tie the high points together, make the low points being the players exploring the world around them so that the story is at least still moving forward.

There should never be time being wasted on shit that doesn't advance the story, especially when you're dealing with the story of a tabletop RPG where the players might only have maybe 2-4 hours a week to dedicate to it.

It's basic story-telling 101 mate, if it's not interesting then don't include it.

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>>47103083
>It's basic story-telling 101 mate, if it's not interesting then don't include it.
So what you're telling me is that you can't make going back to the tavern interesting.

>>47103106

Why would I want to go back to the tavern when I can go forward to a new one?

Or, like, you know, some place more interesting.

Like a castle.

>Here's your (you)

>>47103183
>Why would I want to go back to the tavern when I can go forward to a new one?
Because it's a good tavern. I make a point of trying out bars I haven't been to before, but I still have definite favorites that I go back to.

>>47103106

Why would I go back to the tavern at all?

Why is it that shitposters and retards are always so quick to act so smug?

>>47103198
>>47103106

Why would you go back to a tavern rather than taking the loot that you found in the dungeon and figuring out what it does?

Are you telling me that going back to a tavern is the most exciting thing you can think for a group of adventurers to do after they've just completed a dangerous dungeon?

>>47103198

What if I don't like that tavern?

What if I find their choice in decor tacky and uninspired?

What if, while I find their food and drink passable, I find their service to be subpar and their wenches unattractive?

>I wanna play Foodie: Fantasy Style, where the party explores the continent searching out sublime restaurants and taverns and we upload our reviews to some adventurer yelp thing.

>>47103247
>taking the loot that you found in the dungeon and figuring out what it does?
It gets sold for money. There, can I go back to the tavern and have a drink now?

>>47103247
>Why would you go back to a tavern rather than taking the loot that you found in the dungeon and figuring out what it does?
Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive?

>Are you telling me that going back to a tavern is the most exciting thing you can think for a group of adventurers to do after they've just completed a dangerous dungeon?
They just completed a dangerous dungeon. Why do they need more excitement?

>>47101869
Both of those are better, than killing family characters off-screen, but it would be even better if the PC is capable of interacting with his sister before either option becomes set in stone.

Maybe the sister steps up to sacrifice herself, but the PC can refuse to let her, either taking her place, or somehow figuring out a third option that lets him earn his happy end.

Maybe the sister can oppose the party, but the PC can convince her to either ignore the party, or assist them.

>>47103252
>What if I don't like that tavern?
Is it still worth going to just for the employment opportunities/information gathering? If not, well then the GM fucked up.

>>47103269
>Why do they need more excitement?

Because adventurers are adrenaline junkies.

Duh.

>>47103211
He's being just as smug as the other guy.
>misusing the word obtuse to sound smart
>kiddo
>getting booty bothered that someone would run a game different than he would.

>>47068024
>Character is thrown out and considered no longer family because he's got the magics
>DM tries to kill them off to give me a character arc where I feel bad
>"Fine, I hated them anyway."
>"But you feel terrible knowing your family who you will never see again-"
>"No. I hated them."

>>47103294
Holy shit. I'm sorry for abusing the comma in this response.

>>47103305
Even adrenaline junkies like to unwind at the bar after a day of doing hardcore shit, though.

>>47068024
>GM consistently kills off my characters' parents/siblings whenever I bother to mention them in my backstory
>Create a character who, through convoluted time travel/parallel universe shenanigans, is their own mother, father, sister and brother

WHAT NOW COCKSUCKER

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>>47103373

>>47103252
I've always wanted to run a toriko/dungeon meshi themed campaign.
>kill big monsters
>not for loot but for tasty tarrasque tenderloin

>>47072302
imagine if, depending on what you do during the prologue, when Shaun is robbed he just ends up dying someplace in the wasteland

>>47103266

Not every piece of loot has an exchange rate and not every village is going to have a shop that's capable of taking everything that you find.

Selling all the loot you found or dealing with the fallout of taking it with you should be an adventure in and of itself.

>>47103471
Yeah, yeah, but a drink first.

>>47103303

>Is it still worth going to just for the employment opportunities/information gathering?

You just received fucking thousands of gold's worth of treasure, why do you need employment?

Also, when people want information on shit that they don't know, they'd most likely go to a library or a mage or some other force that has already made their business learning and sharing information.

>>47103314

At least the other guy explained what he was talking about, rather than leaving at "lows are important" and expecting everyone to take him at his flawed logic.

Also, when you post a reaction image and act like you just dropped some hot bars or some shit, you lost, period, pack up and get out, you're a shitposter looking for (you)s and shit.

>>47103520
>You just received fucking thousands of gold's worth of treasure, why do you need employment?
For the same reason you raided the dungeon in the first place: you're always hungry for more, you spend money faster than you should, or both.

>Also, when people want information on shit that they don't know, they'd most likely go to a library or a mage or some other force that has already made their business learning and sharing information.
That would be true if you were an archaeologist, but most likely you're a tomb raider, grave robber, mercenary or general troubleshooter. The information that will lead you to your next payday can typically be found in social hubs such as taverns.

>>47103483

How are you paying for the drink genius?

>>47103607
With freshly earned dungeon money.

>>47103607
By having cash saved from previous runs. What retard would spend every last penny he has?

>>47095550
Yeah seriously.

>play a smart ass, jealous, unworthy guy who imagines himself as deserving of more because he can outsmart others
>has poor relationship with family, doesn't feel he gets enough respect and everything from them, thinks they don't love him anyway
>he becomes a criminal feeling he deserves these goods if he's smart enough to take them
>a group of other criminals track him down, impossibly
>turns out they're vampires, they like him and recruit him as a new vampire
>being a vampire, he obviously disappears from regular life
>but he checks up on family later, figures they would not care
>they miss him and think he got caught up in a bad life, and they're scared for him, they're really heart broken
>they weren't bad, it was always just his immaturity and selfishness pushing them away
>the family can't recover or get over their missing son who they blame themselves over

>want to do something for them, want to put their fears to rest, but can't get them involved with vampires
>drama ensues, yeah typical vampire game, but fun

>>47103620

The dungeon money that you can't sell because nobody in the town wants to buy it?

I mean, are you so much of an alcoholic that you can't properly sell off your gains properly?

>>47103633

Adventurers?

Why bother saving your money today when you could be dead tomorrow.

File: john-wick.png (329KB, 640x401px) Image search: [Google]

329KB, 640x401px

>>47102491
What the fuck did you say?

>>47103663
>>Why bother saving your money today when you could be dead tomorrow.
Because I want to have a drink after the next job without having to wait for a fence to do his magic.

>>47103663
>The dungeon money that you can't sell because nobody in the town wants to buy it?
So there wasn't a single coin or trade good in the entire dungeon? Only taboo items that I can't use as cash in this town?

>>47103596

>For the same reason you raided the dungeon in the first place: you're always hungry for more, you spend money faster than you should, or both.

Why bother earning a few 100 gold for a shitty fetch quest when you can spend that time searching for more dungeons to raid?

If you could make a living by taking odd jobs from some random wino then why did you decide to become an adventurer in the first place?

>That would be true if you were an archaeologist, but most likely you're a tomb raider, grave robber, mercenary or general troubleshooter. The information that will lead you to your next payday can typically be found in social hubs such as taverns.

Unless you're going to a bar where other adventurers are drinking it, you're not going to learn anything from listening to drunk farmers and shit complaining about their everyday lives.

Also, if you are in a bar with other adventurers, why would they tell you anything when it's likely that you'll be pouching their next payday if they tell you anything?

Not to mention, ancient civilizations and shit like that is not bullshit that you can learn just by listening to random people.

I'm just saying.

>>47103772
>Why bother earning a few 100 gold for a shitty fetch quest when you can spend that time searching for more dungeons to raid?
Who said anything about a fetch quest? Is that all your GM offers you in taverns? Geez, no wonder you have such a hate boner for them.

>Unless you're going to a bar where other adventurers are drinking it
I indeed am.
>Also, if you are in a bar with other adventurers, why would they tell you anything when it's likely that you'll be pouching their next payday if they tell you anything?
They don't. The people who come there looking for adventurers do.

>>47103677

>Because I want to have a drink after the next job without having to wait for a fence to do his magic.

If you're drunk and having a good time, you ain't keeping track of how much funds you have left.

>>47103692

>So there wasn't a single coin or trade good in the entire dungeon? Only taboo items that I can't use as cash in this town?

Why would you expect an abandoned tomb, a forgotten monastery, or some other form of dungeon to have modern coinage that you can easily sell to Joe Shmoe who probably doesn't even know what's happening in the town roughly five miles away?

>>47103878
>Why would you expect an abandoned tomb, a forgotten monastery, or some other form of dungeon to have modern coinage that you can easily sell to Joe Shmoe who probably doesn't even know what's happening in the town roughly five miles away?
Because this is a dungeon crawler fantasy setting, that's why.

>>47103878
>If you're drunk and having a good time, you ain't keeping track of how much funds you have left.
Why are you so insistent on every adventurer ever spending ALL their money the moment they get it? I thought RPGs allow for different personalities and shit.

>>47103834
>Who said anything about a fetch quest?

Nobody is going to just give coins away unless they're hiring someone to do shit that they don't want to do.

>Is that all your GM offers you in taverns?

Not even the point, the point is that a bloke that's going to be hiring you to do something is usually going to be hiring you to do some drudgery that's worth less than raiding a dungeon or something.

>They don't. The people who come there looking for adventurers do.

So what would make your group better than any other murderhobo in the area?

Also, what's stopping another pair of adventurers from killing you dead and stealing the reward for themselves?

You make it out to be like a random quest giver walks into the bar and gives an open invitation for some coin and nobody is going to have a problem with potential loot slipping through their fingers when they even suspect a dude is offering up an opportunity to make bank.

>>47103911

>Because this is a dungeon crawler fantasy setting, that's why.

If you want a generic dungeon crawler fantasy, play a rouge-like you twat.

>>47103922

>Why are you so insistent on every adventurer ever spending ALL their money the moment they get it?

Because they're adrenaline junkies who make their living traveling to dangerous, unexplored/abandoned tombs, and murdering anything that looks at them funny.

People like this know that they might not survive to see next week so why would they worry about that kinda shit now?

It's not like the average adventurer has to worry about their retirement or 401k's of shit like that.

> I thought RPGs allow for different personalities and shit.

The average adventurer falls into one of two categories.

You got people who risk their lives day after day to earn coin because they enjoy the thrill and likely suffer some form of psychosis.

Or

You have the dedicated types who are only adventurers as a means to an end, like a paladin who is exploring rumors of a necromancer or a wizard who is researching an ancient cult that made their base of operations in the area.

People who are type 1 know that they don't have a long life expectancy, so they blow their funds on wine, woman, and song and generally don't stop to consider the consequences until it's staring them in the face.

People who are type 2 treat it as a job, they know they're risking everything yet they're doing it anyways because it gets them closer to their overall goal. They wouldn't necessarily blow their funds but they also wouldn't immediately go to a bar because they have more important shit to do, like pray to their god, submit their findings to their bosses, or research the trinkets that they found during their adventures because it syncs up with some ancient legend they remember reading about somewhere.

>>47104124
I hope you're not a GM.

>>47104155

Why?

Because I don't let you treat the hobby like some shitty video game?

Sorry, but you aren't going to sell that ancient book of curses at the local wal-mart that fucking easily mate. Deal with it.

>>47104192
Because you are a tremendous faggot without imagination.

>>47104224

Dungeon Crawler fantasy was never creative in the first place mate, I'm sorry you just got pulled out of your comfort zone and can't get away with treating your character like a bunch of numbers on a sheet anymore but that's the way it is mate.

>>47104124
>rouge-like

>>47077422
I'm gunna use some of these if you don't mind

>>47104382

I'm sorry, how else would you describe a generic fantasy dungeon crawler?

>>47071937
This is what a natural 1 on Reading Comprehension looks like, folks

>>47105157
I'd probably go with Rogue-like, i.e. like the old video game Rogue. Rouge-like would be like makeup.

>>47105274

Stop splitting hairs ya wanker.

It's all the same basic concept.

>>47095550
My current character is essentially herald of bad news. He's the only surviving member of the original party and currently the oldest member of our party. The number of times I've had to track down parents, siblings, lovers, etc to deliver the news that their loved ones are dead. Nearly a century adventuring, survived a near apocalyptic event, conquered nations, slain kings, burned cities, switched sides twice, but nothing he does ever lasts. It's all just a passing line of events, another job to do, and another body to deliver.
It's really weird delivering the ashes of a comrade to their parents, while the character who played that character sits right next to you.

>>47106128
Well, stop giving the ashes to the parents then, dumb-dumb. You're supposed to give them to the shrine handmaid, anyway.

>>47103878

>Expecting a silver coin to somehow not have trade value in a society that still uses precious metal currency, because it has an old king's face on it.

U didn't think this thru

>>47095248
My Wood Elf Fighter was super stressed when his younger sister went adventuring and met up with him. He was so busy freaking out he didn't even give her a lecture on not wearing a leather bikini to cartwheel around with a greatsword.
He damn near had a heart attack when he went home to his clan on a visit and found out his OTHER, EVEN YOUNGER sister ran away to go adventuring too - she never really trusted anyone that wasn't family, and since Mom died birthing her and Dad died keeping Mom from being killed by humans while pregnant, she decided that the best course of action was to go full survivalist hermit and snipe everything that moves to death. Tracking her down was... interesting.

>>47068024
This I kept my players compelled by trying to involve any non-civilian connections they had in a game.

This unfortunately led to the party attempting to kill each other at one point, but eh it is what it is.

>>47107676

>Expecting silver money to have the same value in an area just because it's made of silver.

Nobody in their right mind is going to accept some weird looking coin that might not even be worth anything anymore in lieu of actual money.

If you don't believe me, take 1£ and try using it for something that's like $1, nobody will accept it and even if they do, you're cheating yourself in the long run since one pound is worth $1.45, so you cheated yourself out of fourty-five cents that you could've used for something else.

Not to mention, nobody is going to take your weird money simply because they wouldn't want to go through the hassle of trying to explain to the local tax collector where they got the money from, especially in the off chance that they might come knocking on their door because they gained shit that they weren't supposed to have access to.

Overall, that shit just isn't going to fly and you'd honestly be better off trying to sell that shit to someone who knows the value of such rare or uncommon coins and is willing to give you a fair price for it rather than trying to convince some podunk bartender to accept it at the cost of his livelihood should the local tax collector accept it as actual currency.

If you want to play a game where you don't have to worry about that shit, play a video game, ya daft bastard.

>>47111553
You can stop pretending you're English now, Anon.

>>47111675

What does that have to do with anything?

Could you not think of anything better to reply with?

>>47111720
That was my first post here and I don't really care about your moronic argument with that other fag.

>>47111741

Oh, my mistake mate.

I thought you were the guy I was arguing with, didn't mean any disrespect.

>>47111553
This is a bad analogy, because in modern times currency very rarely has it's own intrinsic value, and only has worth because of a general agreement between the people using it, not even touching on the fact that you're trying to equate the use of currency of a different country in the same age as using old currency from the same general area.

Plus, fantasy currency is almost always clearly stated to be made from just precious metals (for example, in 5e a pound of gold is 50gp, and 50 gold pieces weighs a pound, meaning gold pieces are essentially just that: pieces made of gold) so even if they aren't considered "official" currency, they are just as capable of being accepted to pay any debts you have by the material they're made of

>>47111806

>not even touching on the fact that you're trying to equate the use of currency of a different country in the same age as using old currency from the same general area.

You're assuming that the country itself didn't change once the new guy stepped into power though.

Quite easily, the old kingdom could've become a part of some bigger territory and lost its original identity once it got conquered.

>Plus, fantasy currency is almost always clearly stated to be made from just precious metals (for example, in 5e a pound of gold is 50gp, and 50 gold pieces weighs a pound, meaning gold pieces are essentially just that: pieces made of gold) so even if they aren't considered "official" currency, they are just as capable of being accepted to pay any debts you have by the material they're made of

If D&D and games like it really wanted to treat it as actual money, they would realize that a pound of gold in one area of the world could have a completely different value in other areas of the world.

For example, in a small village that works off of traded goods like an egg for a pound of cheese or jugs of milk for some bundles of wheat, your fancy money won't have any value since nobody else would accept it.

Or what about a magical city that has its own form of currency that doesn't even use gold at all? Maybe they use some weird metal that can only be found in their society and it only has value because it can be used as a magic component that generates mana or something?

Not to mention, what if the gold itself was deemed worthless because of some crusade where the new king destroyed any and all evidence that the old king even existed and deemed any old money to be completely worthless? It wouldn't necessarily be out of the realm of possibility since, as you said, money only has worth because of a general agreement.

I quite frankly don't understand why you're so dead set on not taking the money to someone who'd be willing to give you a fair price for it.

>>47111875
>I quite frankly don't understand why you're so dead set on not taking the money to someone who'd be willing to give you a fair price for it.
Because it's an unnecessary step in a system that's supposed be for ease of use rather than immersion/simulation. Unless your GM is so heavily into the world building aspect of things they're willing to create multiple separate economies for the party to encounter in a single campaign, you're not going to run into the problems you mentioned. I won't deny that it's possible for them to happen, or even that they wouldn't be interesting to engage in, but they're meant to be exceptions or a subversion of the typical rules of one gold piece is one gold piece, no matter where you are

>>47111881

>Because it's an unnecessary step in a system that's supposed be for ease of use rather than immersion/simulation.

What's the difference between exchanging old coins and exchanging old treasure?

It's not like you can pay for a pint of booze with an old pot you found somewhere anyways so what's the difference?

>>47112002
Because coins are supposed to be the universal currency, something separate from other objects or items of worth to make its use easier. Think of it like this: Say you found a dollar bill on the ground, and it turns out to be a pretty old bill in good condition. Now, while you could probably make more money from it than its displayed value by finding a collector to buy it from you, and that would assuredly be the option that got you the most money, there's a good chance that the extra money you gained wouldn't be worth the hassle of finding a buyer, and most people would probably not even think about it and use it like any other bill.

It's a choice between the most cost-effective option and the most convenient option, and while I side with convenience, I can see your point.

>>47112107

There's a difference between an old dollar bill you found on the streets of America and an old dollar bill that you found on the streets of Canada.

There's also the fact that dollar bills are also still in circulation, unlike say, the money that each of the 13 colonies used to use before they decided upon a more universal money system.

>>47112166
Roman coins have been found in old Southeast Asian trading ports. Ancient coins' reliance on being made of actual precious materials rather than being fiat currency meant they were much more easily traded, even if neither side of the trade used the coinage themselves.

And no village is going to reject precious metal coinage unless they'd starve without whatever you're buying, since they'll get decent use out of it at market when they're looking for town guild products and hawking their excess produce.

>>47112166
There is, and I admit I did fall into a pitfall I created by using modern-day currency for an analogy. It's hard to give an analogue to the situation since, as I said before, most money nowadays has no inherent worth.

My logic is that if the old coins you find are made purely from precious metals like the current ones, and the value of the current ones is determined more by their inherent worth in material rather than an outside governing body, then they share a common link in value even if they were minted in different ways, or belong to different kingdoms, as >>47112225 puts more eloquently

>>47112225
>>47112258

What if the metal that's being used for the coin is inherently worthless outside of its native country because it's easily found pretty much everywhere else?

Or the opposite, what if the coins themselves were actually more valuable in another country because it's made of a rare material?

Or the metal is made of an alloy that actually makes it cheaper to produce, at the cost of making it worth less than if it was made of pure gold or silver or something.

I mean, Roman coins might have been found in Southeast Asia but that doesn't necessarily mean that they necessarily had value. For all we know, they used Roman coins because they traded exclusively with Romans for supplies and gave that money to other Romans. It doesn't necessarily mean that you could take a Roman coin and buy something in Southeast Asia.

>>47112410
This whole discussion is based off of the assumption that you find old coins of the same material that the standard currency is made from. If they're a different material, then yes, they would absolutely get filed under "treasure" instead of "cash" and your point about selling them for new money would be completely valid. But that's not what we're talking about.

>>47112458

Eh, fair enough I suppose.

Wanna just let live and call it a day?

>>47078465
Aw man, that was great. Always nice to have some writefaggotry