/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>46960339
I just dont like tryhards is that so wrong?

>>46960357
What is YOUR measure of a tryhard though?

>>46960364
its admittedly a very subjective term. I cant explain it but I know it when I see it.

>>46960316

The last time I ran a game was a Mummy one-shot set in 391AD Roman Alexandria, but that went pretty poorly due to awful players. Those same awful players killed a 1700s Quebec Vampire chronicle before it could even really start.

I don't game with them anymore.

>>46960377
Forgive me for being dim as a bucket of sponges here, but what went so wrong?

>>46960364
>>46960357
"Tryhard" is another term I hate.

>>46960377
>Those same awful players killed a 1700s Quebec Vampire chronicle before it could even really start.
How does that work? Oh, wait, the chronicle. I thought you said they killed a 1700s Quebec Vampire.

>>46960443
what term can I single out shit players that wont offend you then

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>>46960395

Vampire: Nobody cared enough to even finish the characters they made and the first and only scene ended with one of them killing a mortal because he couldn't think of anything to say.

Mummy: Utter lack of investment in the setting (why they agreed to play it is beyond me), one of them didn't think of a character beyond "gay prostitute," and just general lack of attention.

I've never had a good group, and once I stopped playing with those guys I stopped playing altogether. Being atamajakki is suffering.

>>46960499
why not play online with skype or something. Its what I do

>>46960510
roll20 is pretty alright as well.

>>46960510

Erratic scheduling, niche tastes, and good old fashioned anxiety. But once a tripfag starts talking about their personal life, it's time for a change of topic.

>>46960459
I don't know why you assume I'm offended. I'm just making judgements about the kind of person you are. Getting defensive about 'offending' people also makes me judge you.

As for what wouldn't 'offend' my apparently delicate sensibilities? Not making unwarranted leaps of judgement of hypothetical players. Or at least if you do, you could do it without using buzzwords and dogwhistles that give the impression you'd be just as insufferable to game with as the "special snowflakes".

But what was your last character anyway, Anon?

>>46960524
I use a combo of roll20 and skype.
Ops and Tactics game I am in I use roll 20 and teamspeak.
My Fallout game is skype voice chat and using google docs

>>46960532
>Anxiety
>Over the internet

>>46960544
idk if you are offended but its obviously doing something for you to keep mentioning it.

>Making judgements
Its hard to make assumptions of people you dont actually talk to.

>last game
I had an ops and tactics game today.

>>46960569
I asked what your last character was.

>>46960546
There's plenty of reason for anxiety over the internet. I mean, hell, this thread couldn't quit shitting on him for any reason even before he got the name, and something being over the internet doesn't stop you from socially interacting with other humans.

Plus online games are always a clusterfuck because everyone says "I'm available" and then you never hear from them again.

While i'm here I have a quick question on Werewolf the Apoc. New Glasswalker takes the gift 'plug and play', then takes the fetish 'hardware virus'. In this day and age am I mistaken in thinking that this combo seems a little too powerful for a new character?
My understanding would be that with a smartphone you could use the gift to remotely access and via the fetish destroy pretty much anything. Sound about right, or is there a reason it wouldn't work that way?

>>46960598
>I asked what your last character was.
I misread im super tired right now.
My last character I played would have been my CIA Agent. In this game a coalition of Russian,Chinese and North Korean invaded the US and I was sent to help organize the civilian population to either defend their homes or resist occupying forces. The rest of my party are draftees

And I have terrible shyness and anxiety meeting new people. Never had that problem over the internet.

>>46960598

Zero social anxiety over the internet, but lots more of it online. Plus all my shitty previous tabletop experiences make it tough to put together tge effort to play again, leaving me with only the will to shitpost here.

>>46960681

Shit, "over the internet" should say "in real life."

It's time for bed.

>>46960532
>internet anxiety
Explain how this is a thing.

>>46960702
It's a thing. I missed out on plenty of games just because I was too afraid to show myself in a text only room. It puts pressure on you to be social, same as any other anxiety inducing situation.

>>46960737
Why... it's just text. You could pretend to be a complete jackass and it won't affect the rest of your life.

>>46960752
You'd really think so, but the only difference between online and real life is that you can see the people. There's still a fair chance you'll be interacting with these people again, plus the idea of having to keep a time to play.
Anxiety can hit for dumb reasons or no reason at all. I don't know about the tripfriend, but even knowing that I have to interact whether I like it or not because i've already committed is enough to fuck my world up.

>>46960774
Alright fair enough, but now I don't understand why you would talk about internet anxiety while also sporting a tripcode. Seems like the tripuser is setting themselves up for getting made fun of even more.

Someone explain the God-Machine to me.
Give it to me straight.

>>46960815
Think of the machines in the matrix yeah?
Its that but instead of a simulation its the real world mixed with a little bit of Cthulu

>>46960815
The God Machine is your friend, and it just wants the best for us all.

>>46960815
It's a Machine that's also God.

Am I retarded in not fully understanding what infrastructure is? I am thinking of what Infrastructure means to most people. Roads,emergency services, electricity and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsKHPFx5cmQ
So was Johnny a Mage?

>>46960951
Or the Devil was a Spirit of jealous competition with the Steal Soul Numina, with a very specific Ban.

>>46960951
weposting wpd music now?

>>46960815
The God-Machine is the term used to talk about the overall mess of angels and infrastructure that make it up. It's less a god entity, and more of an arcane cosmic engine made up of thousands if not millions of parts.

Infrastructure are exploits into the nature of reality. Think "if you arrange 5 pylons of Aluminium at this location at this time, and anoint it with the blood of a jealous 4th son, you will summon an angel". They create angels, influence things, manipulate reality, and create angel-feed.

Angels are sent out to make more infrastructure, defeat enemies, or manipulate dirty filthy fleshlings into doing their job for them.

The God-Machine is pentacles building pentacles.

>>46960925
It's basically that, but for arcane plans.
Some infrastructure summons angels.
Some makes angel feed (essence).
Some hides other infrastructure (concealment).
Some manipulates probability (makes someone President, or gives someone Cancer, or sends instructions in the mail to the God-Machine's servants).

>>46961143
I guess the naming convention makes it confusing to me. I sometimes take words too literally when I dont have a clear picture

>>46961155
It's infrastructure, but for the God Machine's domination of the world.

>>46961084
Sure go ahead.

>>46961192
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCQOwqvZY-4
I always thought of WoD when listening to these guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqzqcriM3ek
Why does this video make me think of Geist?

>>46961084
I've got a few. I have a playlist of random nerd songs (mostly Miracle of Sound) that I listen to in the shower and cutting grass and stuff like that, and I tend to get WoD-y ideas from some of them.

This song (the lyrics, not the actual character) seem like a Claimed's themesong.
https://youtu.be/x7wryLYBzZg
Maybe some kind of Poison Ivy type Slasher claimed by a Flower-Magath and leading a cult. Instead of, you know, Ragu's clothing thing.

Also a Kill la Kill English cover by the same person, this song is REALLY Geist-y.
https://youtu.be/bU9PJBv30lE
"Souls who unite can't be torn apart" and "we've got to fight as one" in particular.

For less Kill la Kill, this song (again, song, not the music video) feels very Werewolf.
https://youtu.be/5R7vCtU9d7Y
It's like a Nusuzul getting forged in fire.

>>46960316
I'd really like to play Requiem for Rome if they ever do a second edition upgrade for it. Great War Hunter could also be pretty cool.

>>46961696
>feels very Werewolf.
>Not this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPwqpWp0HY
It may be a bit too literal however.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3QHzbK9jY
This feels like a travelling musician Toreador/gangrel singing Horror themed folk music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qECZ7EL1Wxs
Heres a band of travelling Thyrsus Mages
A lot of my insperation comes from folk music for some reason.

>>46961767
They don't really need to do a second edition upgrade for Requiem for Rome. You could just port over the mechanics from VtR 2e and use the fluff from RfR.

>>46960925
Think of it as the infrastructure for weirdness. Ever asked 'well how can the Loch Ness monster survive being that big in such a small ecosystem?' now think of the G-M as the group of weirdos who come in the middle of the night to the edge of Loch Ness with a tractor trailer filled with salted cod and dump it in there for Nessie. They facilitate weirdness, they provide the infrastructure.

>>46961875
>>Not this
Many things can feel Werewolf. That song does have a good sound, though.

This Miracle of Sound song also seems a bit Werewolfy, or at least like a Daeva's themesong. Or a very sensual Gangrel.
>She's a lioness under that dress
>I love to hear her roar

>>46962159
It would be nice to see what they'd do to retheme things, though. Plus, a Julii Clan Bane.

>>46962382
I think something like that would work as a web supplement. They don't do enough of those anymore.

>>46962382
>That song does have a good sound, though.
I was referring to the entire songs premise being about a guys first time turning into a werewolf and killing his girlfriend. (I just love graveyard Train a lot)


This works for a Demon perhaps?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8DekFFCE5c

>The megaupload doesnt have all the books

>>46962779
Which ones are you looking for?

>>46962894
idk I need to cross reference the released books with what I already have. though all I have for Demon The Descent is Story Tellers guide and the revised rules

>>46962951
You don't have the core? You do need Flowers of Hell though, that's a good one. Heirs to Hell is meh, and Interface is redundant now that STG is out.

>>46963027
I dont care I just like to collect them.

>>46960815

It's a Soviet computer that got too big.

Any chance for Mage 2e next week, or will we be disappointed again?

>>46963542

Not after extensive revisions.

It's too powerful for Drakula's refined gothic taste.

>>46963556
Damn it. It's been sent back to be re-worked?

>>46963587

You'd better believe it. Why would I lie to you on the Internet?

>>46963595
Because that's exactly what that final pass is for? If WW finds anything wrong with it, it'll be sent back for re-working?

It happened to Black Hand, after all.

So /quest/ is basically a containment board like /vr/ and /mlp/ right? O was there a real interest in it for it's own merit?

>>46960316
I always wanted to know what that middle reflection is supposed to be, the clothing looks so fucking neat.

>>46963587
No it hasn't. Anon's trolling. Last known news is what's in the last Monday blog: At WWP for approval. Where it's been for the last week or two.

How would you make the Samedi from VtM into a VtR2e, assuming they aren't already a thing in VtR.

If they aren't, might I suggest Mekhet with Dominate.

>>46963792
I was going to say Nosferatu from Jamaica and they would have Dominate

>>46963792
I don't think they are.

Anyhow. I think there are too many mystical bloodlines tied to the Mekhet. Go more on the hideous side. Go Nosferatu.
As for Discipline. I'd give them protean.
Thanatosis, as a Bloodline Gift, I think would work best as a series of Nightmare/Protean devotions.

On the topic of WoD/CofD music

This has always felt very Werewolf-y to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHHHIP1siu4

So has this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJaWOV5uI8

And this feels pretty Demon, to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiPBQJq49xk

Same for this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJaWOV5uI8
Although it's arguably more the words of an Angel, up until the end
Twenty One Pilots in general has a lot of Demon-sounding songs, imo, but that's mostly because they've got of stuff that's vaguely about/directed at God,

And here's a song that makes me think of Mage(Specifically Mastigos)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWWRGmWKkfI

And, for something slightly less indie, this is a mix of Vampire and Werewolf, though the video is 100% werewolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auzfTPp4moA

>>46963858
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qayamt7jnmQ
>Not playing this as you sabotage some of the God Machines Infrastructure

>>46963792
I don't think Dominate really fits. I'd make them Nosferatu with Nightmare, Obfuscate, Resilence and a custom Discipline.

>>46963954
Necromancy

>>46963954
>>46963972
No, not Necromancy. They aren't necromancers, they fuck around with rot and death, yes, but they neither talk to ghosts (the classical definition), or lord it over the undead (the new one).
They do a lot of body-horror stuff though. Protean fits best there.
Discipline list:
Nightmare, Obfuscate, Resilience (replacing Vigor), Protean.
Bloodline Gift: Thanatosis. (Allows you to rot shit, and re-shape yourself, corpsily)

>>46963972
Should they have connections in the Circle and/or Lancae?

>>46964012
>Voodoo
>Christian


>>46964007
Oh so you just want to straight up copy the Samedi? I was just suggesting cool ideas for Voodoo Vampires

>>46963972
As in the VtM version? It would need some upgrading. There was a VtR bloodline with an affinity with ghosts irrc which could be used as base. I thought the Samedi were more into body modofication though.

>>46964029
>Oh so you just want to straight up copy the Samedi? I was just suggesting cool ideas for Voodoo Vampires

Oh, it's not me who want it. I'm just working on what the guy upthread said:

>>46964029
>How would you make the Samedi from VtM into a VtR2e, assuming they aren't already a thing in VtR.
>If they aren't, might I suggest Mekhet with Dominate.

That made me think he wanted to re-make them, rather than make spooky voodoo vampires.

>>46964029
Well, Vodoo vampires could get something similar to Cattiveria, the Sangiovanni Discipline.

>>46964012
Circle, probably. If any at all.
They stink. People don't like stinky people.

>Anarchs and Brujah used to be a diverse group of individuals who banded together for freedom
>Carthian movement are just Leftist extremists.

>>46964173
At their core, yes.
Nowadays they attract pretty much everyone with dissident opinions, with LOTS of infighting.

But to see here. They began as an Anarcho-Liberalist movement in the aftermath of the French Revolution. The core goals were the destruction and re-distribution of power.
Communist, Socialists, and Democrats flocked to the banner.
Everyone else who was disenfranchised got there.
Then they started taking a look at each other.
Now they fight themselves more than they fight each other.

>>46964173
they're about as leftist as any country with a democratically-elected leader. Their core tenents aren't really any more socialist than the United States constitution: "feudalism is bad, democracy is good."
They adopt the rhetoric & aesthetic trappings of historical leftist movements for flavor but most canon Carthian material fails to mention them holding any sort of "real" leftist positions, and IIRC actually says that they're pretty hypocritical about that sort of thing.

>>46964243
>>46964253
I just remembered a joke I made. If all that it means to be a Brujah is to hold an ideal close then what would happen if a Neo Nazi and a Black Panther Brujah met each other in the streets. The Anarchs were like that but on a world wide scale. All of these conflicting ideologies who came together with no real goal other then "Big Government is bad mkay." Not to mention the lack of Masqeruade enforcing apart from Mob Rule (which I know the Camarilla does that with the Blood Hunt but thats super rare)
I feel like the Carthian Movement is a bit overly romanticized. Maybe I need to read more of them I guess.

>>46964243
>>46964253
>>46964304
Nowadays they also include Occupy movements. Anything anti-authority really.

They aren't really pro-democracy. They are anti-authority. Democracy is just a decent step in moving authority down to the people.

>>46964325
>Anarchs/Brujah/Carthian Movement in a nutshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibDNwF8bjs

Time for a strange idea, eyeless Raven Host Mekhets, They have Animalism...and are essentially a walking Wound into the Shadow...also they can fly.

>>46964377
Not very bad.
And once again. Protean. If you want shape shifting, that's pretty much where you have to go.

>>46964418
>What is Animalism?

>>46964418
You know what people fused with Raven Hosts look like, right? Of course flying with a cloak of raven might be easier.

>>46964325
yeah. if you hate the people in charge & think that "things have to change" you join the Carthians. What you do when the Carthians BECOME the people in charge? well.

>>46964440
Controlling animals.
Not shapeshifting.

>>46963542
Mage 2e is never coming out.

>>46964451
Start trying to change things elsewhere.
The Carthian endgame would be Carthians in power and in communication all over the world, so they can come to an agreement about what changes need to be made to Kindred society and politics in order to improve it.

Once Carthains take control of a given city, they're going to start trying to influence nearby cities into also being Carthian-led, either by diplomacy or by playing it VtM-Jyhad style and staking the leaders of the non-Carthian covenants in that city, so the Carthians can take over.

>>46964451
The first part is why there are so many Carthians:
It's easy to hate the vampires in charge.

The second part is why there are so few old Carthians:
The inevitable purges.

>>46964514
But if the Carthians are as diverse as they are supposed to be then no one can agree on what is the best course.

>>46964563
And then, cue the machetes.

>>46960544
>My problem with you is that you reflexively judge people
>That's why I keep reflexively judging you

>>46963633
Black hand is a VtM project, which is the gameline he's got GRAND VISIONS about.

The Black Hand book also ended up being shit.

>>46964591
At which point the Carthian with Celerity and Auspex throws a fish through someones head and kills them instantly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuKV2Z3eYTY

>Used to side with Anarchs most of the time even if I was a bit apprehensive about their lack of focus since the camerilla was just bad all around
>Realize every other covenant in Requiem are just bad and Invictus is hands down the best choice
Name one way Invictus is worse then any other covenant
>Crazed religious nuts
>Crazed religious Nuts: Pagan edition
>Evil scientists
>Violent revolutionaries without focus.

>>46964717
And then the rain of terror begins. The surviving Invicti and Lancea sit at a yacht somewhere, saying "Told you so, old boy", the Ordo batten hatches and hide, the Circle enjoy the blood sacrifices, the unaligned die in droves..

>>46964747
The fact that every Covenant is shit is kind of the point. The only moral choice is Unaligned, except there's no real way to survive as an Unaligned unless you're hideously powerful (in which case you've probably done shit that's even more evil than your average Vampire who IS in a Covenant).

>>46964747
Tyrants
Religious Madmen.
Religious Madwomen.
Evil scientists.
Communazis.

>>46964834
The invictus are relatively sane and safe
They know Humans are a natural resource so they protect their interests. They know that Humans outnumber them probably by the millions so its best not to start swinging your dick around when you dont need to.
Just dont rock the boat and try to avoid the constant backstabbing politics and you will be fine.

>>46964906
>try to avoid the constant backstabbing politics
>In the Invictus
Good fucking luck.

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>>46964747

I have more sympathy for the Lance and Circle than most. If I were turned into a horrifying blood-drinking monster, being told that I had a purpose (according to God or just as part of my new nature) woukd be immensely comforting. They have mych more appeal to me than signing up fir 500 years of vassalship, becoming a revolutionary firebrand, or experimenting on myself to become a better monster.

>>46964966

It's easy! All you have to do is never leave the nightclub you feed from. Ever.

File: WhosWhoKronk1.jpg (15KB, 413x439px)

15KB, 413x439px

Just a quick question my curent pc just died and i wanted to try something new i was thinking kronk and wanted some ideas on stats and merits

>>46966619

What game are you playing? Why are you aiming for a comedic PC? How did the previous character die?

>>46966619

Taking the Giant merit is a must.

I was thinking about that Samedi/Caribbean Voodoo vampires line. Why not make them some sort of weird Daeva/Nosferatu hybrid? It's probably a dumb idea, but sex and death are associated in some Voodoo traditions, like with Baron Samedi himself. They could get something like Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate and Vigor for Disciplines.

>>46966700
>>46966723
Its a hunter game my last guy felt he needed to take out the big bad no matter what. So they went out with a bang together. By the way he was the face/leader that was too smart for his own good, and so i wanted to try kronk as a less serious heavy hitter with a heart of gold.

>>46966619

>>46966723
This. Lots of dots in Animal Ken, maybe Encyclopedic Knowledge in Occult or Science.

>>46966723
Yes as well as all high resistance stats like resolve, stamina, and composure.

>>46966826
I was thinking almost maxing that out in animal kin as well as takeing the pet merit

>>46966826
Yes i like that and would the common sense merit work with his sudden insights

>>46966816
>Its a hunter game

A hunter from "Hunter the Vigil"?
A hunter from "Hunter the Reckoning"?
A hunter from "Hunters Hunted"?

>>46967249
Vigil

So here's a fun thing: every single CofD game treats Twilight as a state of being, yet Mummy talks about physically entering Twilight and it having distinct landmarks.

>>46963655
Containment

>>46967296
>04/28/16(Thu)21:20:05 No.46967296

Oh, well, then I'm no help at all. Vigil isn't my cup of tea, nor do I know all that much about it.

I prefer Hunters Hunted in WoD.

>>46967386
Yeah. Mummies are wrong.

>>46964713
In their defense, they were polishing a turd. You can only do so much when you're using so much stuff from DSotBH.

>>46967392
Hunters Hunted was awesome. Hell, most of 1e Masquerade was awesome! I just got a copy of the original 1991 softcover of the corebook and it is awesome to read it again!

2e was too gonzo, Revised had too much grimderp and metaplot bullshit, and V20 is awesome mechanically but feels kind of soulless. I honestly have no interest in V4, as I already own V20, and believe if something isn't broke, don't try to fix it.

Speaking of 1e Masquerade, what media would you consider to be inspirations for your WoD/CofD games?

I'll start with Vampire, both Masquerade and Requiem.

>Goodfellas
>Dracula (Both the 1931 and 1992 versions)
>Black Lagoon
>Interview With the Vampire
>The Shield
>The Sopranos
>The Godfather Trilogy
>Grand Theft Auto
>Underworld
>Hellsing Ultimate
>Gangland
>Death Note
>Resident Evil (the original PS1 trilogy)
>Gangs of New York
>Sons of Anarchy
>Romeo & Juliet (Both the original play and the 1996 film with Leo DiCaprio)
>Macbeth
>Near Dark
>The Lost Boys
>Highlander (first film only)
>AKIRA
>Ghost in the Shell (both the film and SAC)
>Devil May Cry
>Breaking Bad
>Vampire Hunter D
>Ninja Gaiden
>Red Dead Redemption
>Queen of the Damned
>Sailor Moon
>BloodRayne (the original PS2 game)

>>46967575
>>Sailor Moon
WHAT.

>>AKIRA
WHY.

>>46967386
Twilight does have other things than various spirits and such. Important events can cause locations to create a psychic imprint in Twilight. If a very important and historical building gets torn down, sometimes it will still exist as some sort of ghost building in Twilight.

>>46967386
mummy is first edition
first edition had twilight as its own place

>>46967614
>WHAT.
Daeva
>WHY.
Protean

>>46964747
>hi, welcome to the next thousand years of your life, I really hope you liked feudalism, because that is all it's going to be, peasant.

>>46967627
Aren't you confusing it with the Shadow and maybe the shadowlands from Wraith? I think the CofD core really missed out on an opportunity to give a definitive answer on what Twilight is.

>>46967764
>sailor moon
>daeva
I'm thirding the what, that doesn't make a lick of sense
akira is really a stretch

>>46967786
Twilight is a state of being. It's like your whole body is moving at a frequency that's not quite reality, which is why you can see/hear reality while you're in it.

Only banes and special magic can hit you at Twilight.

2e has been clear about this.

>>46967575
Many of these recommendations are very loosely connected to Vampire, also there's a disturbing amount of anime.

>>46967815
Isn't that a Lovecraft story?

>>46967839
It's a common sci-fi convention. From Beyond sort of goes into the depths of it, with more frequencies leading to other dimensions.

>>46967819

How else can you hit the mandatory 90 hours of anime that OPP requires of its freelancers?

>>46967851
>what awful things awful fans believe of OPP
already been discredited, most don't watch ainme at all

>>46967876
I watch some anime, but I'm not an aficionado. When I got the outline for my section it led me to watch a lot of 80s body horror, though I did read some Junji Ito as well.

>>46967575
What is gonzo?

>>46967968
bizarre or crazy.
like most of owod

>>46967968
A misused term for anything slightly avant garde. Most people don't even know Thompson's intention for the concept.

>>46967968
>>46968014
Journalism done while out of your mind on drugs and/or booze, though most people interpret it as just whacky or crazy bullshit like >>46967980 said

>>46967876

I'll admit, it's an old, tired joke. I still like telling it.

>>46967931

>When I got the outline for my section it led me to watch a lot of 80s body horror, though I did read some Junji Ito as well.

Hey I found one of the Deviant writers!

>>46968052

Isn't it more "journalism where I, the journalist, am an active participant"? That's why it's also a porno genre too.

>>46967627
That's just the ghost of a building. Which, being a ghost, is in Twilight. And being a building doesn't do anything other than sit there.

>>46968095
Can the building possess me?

>>46968122
It can only possess things its size or smaller so no. Maybe if you got a merged a bunch of ghost houses together.

>>46968052
>>46968093
We're both sort of right; the dictionary definition is
>of or associated with journalistic writing of an exaggerated, subjective, and fictionalized style.

So, writing that you're involved in where things are blown way out of proportion and sensationalized.

>>46968150
So what you're saying is this tooowwnnn becoming like a ghost town

>>46968095
I can see how ghost buildings could exist in the Underworld, but I've always wondered why they would show up in Twilight. Are they summoned there? If so, what's the point?

>>46968183
Ghosts don't just appear in the underworld, they sink there after dwelling in Twilight for a while
Whatever ties the house had haven't been severed
maybe there's still pictures of it on google

>>46968213
I was convinced ghosts started in the Underworld before drifting into Twilight. Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding.

So I'm throwing together a Motley of changeling privateers to throw at my hunter group, so far I've got a pseudo-samurai soldier and his Manikin shadowling second, was considering just using that randomly generated changelings deal but you lot always come up with far cooler ideas.

>>46968254
A refined, well-mannered Ogre that serves as the face of the group.

>>46968248
thats how geists come
or cwod wraiths work

>>46968281
I like it, I imagine they'd definitely need a face to actually /deal/ with the assorted others whom they intend to sell hapless changelings and humans to, so a face who's not all murder all the time would be good.

In Forsaken, how exactly does Lunacy work and how would affect mundane PCs?

>>46968644
>see a werewolf do werewolfy things
>have integrity? then roll for lunacy (ghosts exempt, can't lose integrity)
>succeed? fail? you rationalize it, get conditions
>dramatic fail? rationalize it, become wolfblood
>exceptional success? you remember! grats!
werewolf book has the specific modifiers butyou're more likely to be affected by being a lone witness than a victim

>>46966907
Kronk was also very sociable, do you plan to have him be good at Socialize?
If so you should consider the first dot of Etiquette, it lets you replace the lower of you Compose or Resolve with Socialize.

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>>46968697
>>46968644
together, they each receive +2. Large groups (ten or fewer) gain
+3. Any larger mob receives +4.
Wolf-Blooded do not suffer Lunacy, nor do creatures that
do not use Integrity. This includes vampires, spirits, other
Uratha, and stranger creatures besides.

>>46968254
I always find it fun to have someone who is especially low clarity around.

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>>46968644
I basically works like this.

http://www.4chan.org/bans
not on bans, may have just had a warning

>>46968644
what did you need it for?

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>Dex 5

>>46964029
Louisiana Voodoo has a lot of strong Catholic vibes due to syncretism, since it's a creole religion. Basically, slaves would use Saints and Catholicism to make it seem like they were practicing mainstream Catholicism instead of Voodoo.
>As a result of the fusion of Francophone culture and Voodoo in Louisiana, Creole African Americans associated many Voodoo spirits with the Christian saints known to preside over the same domain. Although some doctrinaire leaders of each tradition believe Voodoo and Catholic practices are in conflict, in popular culture both saints and spirits are believed to act as mediators, with the Catholic priest or voodoo Legba presiding over specific respective activities. Early followers of Voodoo in the United States adopted the image of the Catholic saints to represent their spirits.[20]

>Other Catholic practices adopted into Louisiana Voodoo include reciting the Hail Mary and the Lord’s Prayer.[14]

>>46964703
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to point that out. I was making judgements about things he'd actually done, while he was making judgements about complete hypotheticals and making assumptions about groups he's never met.

Have we actually gotten rules for how needle/thread will work cor changelings in 2e yet? I remember vaguely reading about it but the playtest stuff that got put out says that they just use virtue/vice

>>46970189
Only Athletics 4 though, and I don't think there is an Area of Expertice on that Cheerleading speciality... That final landing was shaky, after all.

>>46970274
Just swung by here to say that you need to stop posting, all it took me was a brief skim of your post and post style to understand you are an utter jackass who needs to climb down off his high horse, stop trying to teach people lessons, and drink a bottle of drano.

>>46967743
Twilight was never a place. Except sometimes, because bad communication.

>>46967386
>>46968183
Twilight is a "state of being" in that you're still in the same place you were before, but you're now in a world that's filled with ghosts. Things that were there are still there, and things that are there aren't there yet because those structures haven't filled in ephemerally yet. Ephemera is basically just emotional resonance. When emotions are formed, even small ones, it creates the ephmera that makes up the structure's Twilight form.
I don't remember if it's ever stated or if it's just my headcanon, but ghosts walking through walls is them going through a wall that exists in reality but not in Twilight. I actually had my Sin-eaters smack into a wall when chasing a ghost while Reverse Possessing. Since their perceptions were in Twilight but their bodies weren't, they smacked into it without noticing because they failed the perception roll.

Or Mummy is just wrong. I mean, CAS intentionally said "fuck it" to most of the traditional WoD stuff. Mummies apparently aren't using the same Underworld even.

>>46967790
>>46967764
>>46967851
>>46967819
>>46967614
This is either the shitposter who whinges that "Personal horror is dumb" while failing to know what that means (and they've had it explained) and loves crime thrillers and 90s anime, or someone pretending to be them.

>>46970470
Yea, he's our resident Jackass. Lovingly referred to as Faggot-Kun. Just ignore him, the more attention he's given the more he posts.

>>46970350
Playtest stuff uses Mask/Mein, except for one place.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K8R3qXyDyob0hVNEVhbkx4SlU/view

>>46970575
Yea, that'd be what i was seeing. Got a link to where they talk about mask/mien?

>>46970494
>This is either the shitposter who whinges that "Personal horror is dumb" while failing to know what that means (and they've had it explained) and loves crime thrillers and 90s anime, or someone pretending to be them.

It might be someone else who has a similar idea of idiocy. It's generally safest to hedge your bets on the side of "everyone is an idiot until proven otherwise."

>>46970494
>This is either the shitposter who whinges that "Personal horror is dumb" while failing to know what that means (and they've had it explained) and loves crime thrillers and 90s anime, or someone pretending to be them.
but anon everyone loves 90s animes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>46970790

Depends on the 90s anime.

>>46970828
no my many exclamation marks have seared my statement as truth into the fabric of the cosmos

>>46970882
>this is how Mage actually works

>>46970901
Ascension, maybe

>>46970882

Unfortunately for you I am an Archmage and my Golden Road is a perfect replica of the 1991 AnimeCon and I will your exclamation points out of existence.

>>46970934
having not read mage I'm going to assume you can do that and just be sad

:(

>>46970988
Yes... But 1991 AnimeCon will forever be forgotten by everyone.

>>46970661
Oh, whoops, I was just dumb. I remember David saying they were currently using Mask/Mein but needed to change that. Only reference to Needle/Thread currently seems to be the Deerheart's power.

But how David said was "what holds you together and what pulls you through".

>>46970755
Nah. It'd be hard to say the exact same things. Plus there's a lot of the same baiting.

>>46970790
>>46970828
Why did the 90s art style fall out of favour?

>>46971448
>Why did the 90s art style fall out of favour?
No particular reason, I'd say. Every time has its own style. Why did the 40s style of Disney animation fall out of favor?

As time marches on, artists grow in skill, they try new things, they see new art and break new ground. Refinements in the craft lead to the population having changing tastes, which sets a new baseline for people to experiment around.

>>46971547
Yeah, but if you compare Beauty and the Beast with Snow White, it wasn't really that drastically different. But if you look at Bubblegum Crisis or Nadia and it's really different from what you see today.

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So, anons, a quandry:
I'd like to make a setting whose mythological underpinnings are less oriented towards having nigh-omnipotent/omniscent beings/entities/concepts enforcing the status quo of the world of darkness and more that the status is simply the result of lives/struggles/politicking of its denizens.

That is, a bit less God-Machine, True Fae, and/or Abyss and more sort of Greek Gods (at most) or the type of lowered powered deities in most Asian mythos. Less inscrutable intelligence and intent, and more natural entropy.

So, with Demon: the Descent. Rather than Cover being used to hide from the GM, perhaps it's used to hide from other Demons who would/could destroy them (maybe eat their essence?) Perhaps even something similar to quiescence for warding away prying mortals? Any bright ideas on how to make things like this work?

>>46971738
the snow white you see today was digitally remastered

>>46971795
>So, with Demon: the Descent. Rather than Cover being used to hide from the GM, perhaps it's used to hide from other Demons who would/could destroy them
thats what cover is for
demons aren't all united, they keep covers secret from each other because any of them might be a spy

>>46971795
That's really already how the game is. You can strip out the super-entities and little changes.

>>46971842
aye
>>46971795
the god machine directly interferes in everyones affairs
the true fae makes changelings and wrecks the lives of other changelings to get them back
the abyss just sits there but it's an ocean, not an entity
spirits, ghosts, powerful occultists, these are all actively fucking up the landscape at every moment

>>46971738

The first two are Disney movies with a trademark house style, not to mention that even Disney changes itself up a bit depending on what character designer gets popular. Glen Keane is pretty much the defining factor of the Modern Disney Look.

>>46971795
The True Fae basically are Greek Gods. Hell, each individual True Fae is a lot less powerful than a Greek God (and neither they nor the Heavenly Bureaucracy were really "low powered"; not even the Norse ones were, and they could die).

I don't really think Demon is the kind of game you're looking for. I mean, it's all about fighting the oppressive sinister machinations of a faceless organization larger and more powerful than anything you can imagine. It's the Kochtopus meets Matrix meets the Old Testament, and only your band of magical James Bond SHIELD agents can take it down.
Demons might want to fuck each other over, but generally they're not looking to eat their essence or anything like that.

>>46971876
The God-Machine *doesn't* directly interfere in everyone's affairs. It's a collection of Infrastructure. It's Big Brother and all the local elections that the Koch brothers buy out to effect global changes. But it's not actively everywhere, just passively.
The Abyss also is technically conscious.

>>46971940
>The God-Machine *doesn't* directly interfere in everyone's affairs. It's a collection of Infrastructure. It's Big Brother and all the local elections that the Koch brothers buy out to effect global changes.
No, it makes angels to enact its will and speaks to cults. It doesn't walk around controlling everything perfectly but it does interfere directly.
>The Abyss also is technically conscious.
It has a lot of conscious things in it, its an ocean

>>46971984
The word you're looking for is "indirectly". But it also doesn't have perfect omniscience. It doesn't control every aspect of your life directly, it creates Infrastructure that nudges societal conventions to create the desired outcome. It sometimes needs to take a more overt hand in things, and that's when it uses Stigmatics, Angels, or Offspring sleeper agents.

But generally, it sets things into motion to snowball, as opposed to direct intervention. In lieu of a political example:
Diamonds are incredibly overpriced and outside of technology they're completely worthless, but it's tradition to buy a diamond ring as an engagement gift.
The reason for this is that diamond manufacturers and jewelers wanted to sell more diamonds
They created an aggressive advertising campaign to convince the public that diamonds were an age old tradition
(They're not)
Now it's almost unthinkable that you not spend three month's salary on a diamond engagement ring

See also: Listerine, jaywalking, and most things from the show Adam Ruins Everything. Also pants, probably.

That's all Infrastructure. That's how the God-Machine works. It doesn't monitor and manipulate every atom.

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>>46971940
>I don't really think Demon is the kind of game you're looking for

I suppose. I do like the rules set, but I guess what I was looking for is a bit more generic sort of kitchen-sink demonic world crockpot, without the baggage of even the existence of super entities or vaguely monolithic underpinnings.

Sort of how Asian folk religion treats its deities; they're really just slightly more powerful versions of the same sort of minor imp demon things that mortals may deal with.

Trying to think of an example that all you scholars would be familiar with. Perhaps something along the lines of how mystical elements are treated in the I-Ching or, more contemporarily, say, Devil May Cry, or perhaps Darkstalkers, in that there certainly are powerful entities, but they're fairly faliable and have relatively relatable actions and behavior.

>>46972247
Yeah, you don't want Demon. If anything, you want Werewolf. Mage could work too.

>>46972152
No one said it had perfect omniscience or monitors and manipulates every atom, but it creates spiritual beings designed to make its wants happen, and speaks directly to mortals and other things to get other things to happen

Maybe you should stop wasting your life watching Cracked and start reading the posts you're arguing with before you argue with them

>>46972247
You've just described Werewolf the Forsaken.

>>46971795
God Machine didn't exist until late into 1e's lifespan - the universe functions just fine if you ignore/remove it. Except for Demon itself, and if you try to play Demon without a nigh-omnipotent deity figure to avoid, you may be actually, factually retarded. That's the entire premise of the game.

>>46972247
Seconding what others have said, you want Werewolf. Which is good, because Werewolf is the coolest.

>>46972247
Demon is more Abrahamic God by way of oppressive secret government conspiracy. The God-Machine is fallible--incredibly so--but it's also an organization more than an entity. I liken it to a hive of eusocial insects. If you're not interested in stopping Skynet, Demon isn't the game you're looking for without some major changes.

Changeling actually is more like that, although those powerful fallible petulant empowered beings also tend to want to make your life miserable because you had the gall to be so SELFISH as to deny them their pleasure in tormenting you.

Werewolf and Mage are also definitely good, and the Dark Eras book actually had a Changeling/Geist crossover era set in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms period. Geist also fits, with a lot of the powerful ghosts being Godlike entities. The Kerberoi especially. That said, Geist 1e is a shithouse of clusterfucky mechanics and bad managing of themes that gets in the way of the amazing core concept.

>>46972404
>God Machine didn't exist until late into 1e's lifespan
its in the first book

>>46972385
Maybe you should read the book, where it says that the God-Machine doesn't directly control things because that would be physically impossible.

>>46972420
>That said, Geist 1e is a shithouse of clusterfucky mechanics and bad managing of themes that gets in the way of the amazing core concept.
Yeah without all that shit it would be a perfect ripoff of werewolf 1e.

>>46972398
>>46972349
>>46972413
>Werewolf
Hmm, that's an interesting thought. So then, how to play Werewolf without Werewolves in it?

>>46972404
I'm (heretically) generally more interested in mechanics than fluff. And Demon's mechanics are interesting.

>>46972446
Maybe you should read my posts, where I didn't say it directly controlled things.

It interferes. It creates angels to do its bidding the way a person picks up a tool to fix what's broke.

>>46972460
>Hmm, that's an interesting thought. So then, how to play Werewolf without Werewolves in it?
>not playing werewolves
ugh, one of those
You can just be a spirit occultist, or a wolf-blooded.

>>46972460
>Hmm, that's an interesting thought. So then, how to play Werewolf without Werewolves in it?
Take the Shadow and spirit rules, but insert another playable splat of your choosing, and tweak the interactions.

>>46972460
>Hmm, that's an interesting thought. So then, how to play Werewolf without Werewolves in it?
Why don't you want werewolves in it?

Anyhow, Mage could work. Just have everyone play Spirit-mages. Wait a week or twelve and it'll be out.

>>46971940
Hi Rory.

>>46972448
Not really.

>>46972468
It doesn't directly interfere, either. The entire point of the God-Machine is that you never know when it's got it's finger in a pie because it doesn't directly interfere. If something is broke, an angel isn't just created to go fix it. An angel is created to manipulate this one guy into doing something and that causes something else to happen so that eventually someone fixes the problem without even realizing it.

>>46972460
Werewolf is pretty cool, though. Also, WoD may not be the right system for you, since a LOT of the mechanics are tied to the fluff. That said, if you're good at homebrewing and tinkering, you should be able to change things to suit yourself. Tweaking Werewolf to be not about Werewolves would be difficult, since so many of the powers are mechanically based around shapeshifting. But the setting itself? You can use that for something. Book of Spirits is oooold and from 1e, but it's a great book that might be what you want.

>>46972521
Why do you keep doing that? I'm not even sure what gave it away, but you're not really adding anything to just point out that a comment comes from me.

>>46972425
Mentioned in exactly one (1) story blurb, and then never again until GMC was published. You got me, God Machine was clearly an integral part of the 1e setting from start to finish. Fuck off.

>>46972460
Demon's primary gimmick, Cover, is focused exclusively around evading the notice of the singular spooky-bad god figure. So, no, I don't think you actually like the real mechanics, you just like the extremely simple, flexible powers they have at their disposal.

The game line you actually want to the play, the one where there are no Big Guys for you to fret over, are Werewolf (as everyone else has mentioned) and goddamn Geist.

>>46972482
>>46972511
I mean, werewolves are a fairly Eurocentric foklore concept. I'm sort of looking for a generic spirit/demon type of splat, something along the lines of Fenghuang, Si Xiong, or Japanese Yokai. You could have animal features, sure, but not necessarily.

Maybe just use Monster rules from Hunter?

>>46972571
>Why do you keep doing that? I'm not even sure what gave it away, but you're not really adding anything to just point out that a comment comes from me.
Maybe he does it to warn people that theyre talking to someone who's objectively incorrect but doesn't have any books or pdfs to check and will never admit it. Plus the no life thing where you just want people to talk to you so you're invested in arguing without end

>>46972571
What gave it away is your stale rhetoric and repetition of your thoughts because that's all you come here to do. Repeat the same thoughts over and over because what else do you have?

>>46972588
>Mentioned in exactly one (1) story blurb, and then never again until GMC was published. You got me, God Machine was clearly an integral part of the 1e setting from start to finish. Fuck off.
I didn't say it was integral.

I said it existed.
>>46972425
>>God Machine didn't exist until late into 1e's lifespan
>its in the first book
Pay attention, shithead

>>46972613
Werewolves in WoD are way pre-European.

And you're not looking for a generic splat, you're looking for an Asian one.

>>46972613
>I mean, werewolves are a fairly Eurocentric foklore concept.
They're actually more animist in concept, there's some similarities with native american and other shamanic beliefs.

They are half spirit.

>>46972634
Yes, and while you caught me on one half of that statement, the actual important part, that GM was NOT important to the rest of the setting until GMC was published, didn't get addressed at all. This is what normal people call splitting hairs, but autists like you call a strong argument.

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>>46972653
>you're looking for an Asian one.
I mean, I suppose. A splat based on Asian-oriented cosmology then. Which I find would be interesting. Ah well, I suppose I'll do a bit more reading.

>>46972734
You probably shouldn't have spent so much time getting butthurt about it. But you had to argue and prove yourself wrong.

>>46972744
get Kindred of the East
they're asian ghost-people who survive like vampires after escaping from the thousand hells

>>46972613
>I mean, werewolves are a fairly Eurocentric foklore concept. I'm sort of looking for a generic spirit/demon type of splat, something along the lines of Fenghuang, Si Xiong, or Japanese Yokai. You could have animal features, sure, but not necessarily.
>Maybe just use Monster rules from Hunter?

Shapeshifters are a global concept.
And they are literally a spirit type of splat, along those lines.

>>46972385
>>46972468
The God-Machine doesn't directly speak to ANYTHING, not even Angels.
ANGELS speak to Mortals as a proxy for the Command & Control Infrastructure that has given them a mission.
For example, "Convince John to kill Jane."
The Angel will now visit John and appear to him as a divine being, then tell him that God needs him to kill Jane.
That's as direct as the God-Machine gets.

>>46972460
>>46972613

Have you read Werewolf? Or are you just assuming things based on the name?
If you want Demon, but with animistic(shinto-esque) spirits/gods instead of the God-Machine and Angels, you want Werewolf.
The only thing it's missing in the transition, really, is the technological twist on everything. That, and a large majority of the spirits reside in the Shadow instead of in Twilight, but it's still very VERY close to how things work in Japanese mythology.

>>46972803
>The God-Machine doesn't directly speak to ANYTHING, not even Angels.
Wow, so wrong.

>>46972634
>>46972770
You know what he meant, why are you being pedantic? Why do people in these threads do this? They focus on someone using casual speech and then start acting like that undermines everything they said. You knew what he meant when he said "The God-Machine didn't exist until late into 1e's lifespan".
It was a vague thing meant to provide one potential option in a fluff story from the corebook that got a few shout outs in other supplements. That's not quite "existing" in the same way that it did post God-Machine Chronicle.

>>46972620
>>46972829
Show me where the book says that's incorrect, then.
The book repeatedly talks about these things. If you're going to argue that other people don't ever check the books, then you're going to have to show us that you do that.

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>>46972802
>Shapeshifters are a global concept.
Indeed, but the idea of lycanthropes as humans that shapeshift into animal form is particularly prevalent in European folklore, as compared to the reverse in the relative abundance of animals/spirits that take a human guise in Asian lore. Like Huli Jing or Kitsune. They're fox spirits that shapeshift into human forms and not the other way around.

>>46972803
>but with animistic(shinto-esque) spirits/gods instead of the God-Machine and Angels
Not really, I sort of am looking for something akin to demons as their own supernatural entity (and not possessed humans) that integrate into human society (for whatever reason) and without the baggage of cosmological Big Bad guys.

>>46972986
You aren't really going to have Demons without big cosmological bad guys. Demons as a concept sort of require God. At best you can use the Conversion Guide to convert Demon: The Fallen stuff to DtD and get ideas for that kind of game. If I understand correctly, Fallen has no God or a distant God, and the main conflict is with other powerful Demons who aren't "good" like you are because they've been driven insane, or something like that.

Really, a better question to ask is "what kind of game are you trying to run?"
As in, what specifically would you want the players to do.

Your best bet may just be to run a mortals game, which is the most customizable.

>>46972634
>>46972588

Actually the God-Machine gets a shout out in Danse Macabre, and I wanna say Midnight Roads. Promethean, too.

>>46972986
>Indeed, but the idea of lycanthropes as humans that shapeshift into animal form is particularly prevalent in European folklore, as compared to the reverse in the relative abundance of animals/spirits that take a human guise in Asian lore. Like Huli Jing or Kitsune. They're fox spirits that shapeshift into human forms and not the other way around.

Yeah. If we look at the Ainu however, apparently their myths talk about them being the offspring of a goddess and a wolf-god.

>>46972404
Actually its was hinted at in several other books. Such as danse macabre and the imperial mystery books.

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>>46973065
>what specifically would you want the players to do.
Let players dick around with wierd, fairly mundane supernatural abilities, play as supernatural entities trying to blend into human society, play the politics of the Celestial Bureaucracy of perhaps that of a generically named Demon world that is basically the same as the real world but reflected a bit different to compensate for said otherworldliness.

I guess actually sort of like VtR but with less loss-of-humanity struggles and more supernaturals living somewhat civily with human society.

Homebrew's plenty fine for me, I'm just looking for ideas and the like.

How would you make MTA more religious? So that the Mages are more like theurgists/priests.

>>46973342
*The awakening

>>46973342
Play Seers.

>>46973341
>Let players dick around with wierd, fairly mundane supernatural abilities, play as supernatural entities trying to blend into human society, play the politics of the Celestial Bureaucracy of perhaps that of a generically named Demon world that is basically the same as the real world but reflected a bit different to compensate for said otherworldliness.

Closest: Exalted, play Sidereals. Otherwise Werewolf.
Their abilities aren't mundane, but the rest is spot on.

>>46973213
It gets a few, but it's not really any more than a wink-wink, nudge-nudge "hey, remember that story from the corebook?"

>>46973341
You might want Scion. Depending on how well you can handle shitty mechanics, you can try Scion Hero, or you can read it for ideas and homebrew things. What you're looking for doesn't really seem like it fits with the relatively lower powered WoD horror. That said, it can still be done.

Hell, check out Scion Hero, the Demon Translation Guide, and Book of Spirits. Maybe you'll be able to figure something out.

>>46973342
Nothing prevents a Mage from being a religious type. Aren't Obrimos called Theurges anyway?
If you want specifically a kind of clerical thing where mortals come to Willworkers for religious reasons, you might want to look into Neolithic Mage from Dark Eras.

You could even take that kind of attitude and relationship between Muggle and Magician and put it into a fantasy setting.

>>46973390
Good stuff. Thanks anon.

>>46973390
Oh, right, yeah. Exalted would work as well. It's literally Chinese+Greek Gods by way of anime.
And the third edition just dropped last week.

>>46973342
Play a Mage, who uses religious trappings? There will be mechanical support for that coming up in the next edition, which is to be released within a few decades.

>>46973432
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akb0kD7EHIk

>>46972829
There is never an example in any of the books or even reference to the God-Machine saying anything. In fact, it's EXPLICITLY not a discrete entity, but the sum total of all of it's Command & Control Infrastructure, which exists purely to make decisions and send them along the proper channels; aka, decide what this Angel should do in order to make this thing happen, then set that act to be the Angel's mission.

>>46973341
It sounds like you want Exalted.
You play, by default, Solars, people who have been empowered by the mightiest of gods, but are hunted down by the Dragon-Blooded, people who are genetically empowered by Gaia, because of a bogyman story from centuries ago when the old Solars went mad and almost destroyed the world. There is a Celestial Bureauracy, run mostly by the Sidereal Exalted, those empowered by the Five Maidens of Fate, and existing almost entirely in Yu-Shan, the city of the gods, which is more or less the same as Creation except a bit more magical and filled with gods instead of mortals.

There's also Malfeas, aka Hell, but you generally don't want to go there, and there's no Celestial Bureacracy down there, because why the fuck would the Celestial Bureaucracy be in the metaworld of the most non-Celestial beings ever?
Gods aren't good, demons aren't evil, the only thing that's objective is the world sucks at the default start of the game.

>>46973432
With a large splash of persia added on, aye.

>>46973452
>There is never an example in any of the books or even reference to the God-Machine saying anything. In fact, it's EXPLICITLY not a discrete entity, but the sum total of all of it's Command & Control Infrastructure, which exists purely to make decisions and send them along the proper channels; aka, decide what this Angel should do in order to make this thing happen, then set that act to be the Angel's mission.
I don't actually remember it being explicit about being the sum total of C&C Infrastructure, but there IS the part about how The God-Machine can interact with things on an individual basis about as well as you can move the period on the page with your finger without touching anything around it.

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>>46973531
Searching for this to screenshot it also helped me find the evidence to prove >>46972829 hasn't read the book, so thanks.
Page 242 of the Core Book

>>46973725
How does it send an angel to do something without communicating with that angel? It has to transmit its will somehow, and we would rightfully call that communication.

Passage seems contradictory.

>>46973725
Iunno... are you sure you're not just objectively incorrect and not checking the books?

>>46973764
"It" isn't an entity. It's an organization. There is no head. No single ant is in control, not even the queen.

>>46973764
Probably the angel is deployed with the message, and how, precisely, it is to be delivered, already encoded in its brain or equivalent computing strata.

>>46973779
Okay, but the passage straight up says "If it is capable...", "It sends...", etc., etc.

Again, seems pretty contradictory. If the God-Machine exists, and it can send angels, it can therefore communicate with angels.

>>46973764
It sends a google hangout message.
>>46973779
I disagree with that. Humans are the sum total of their cells, but they are so much more then that.
Th God-Machine is alive in a much more vast way then what we can understand.
Truly it's a cosmic entity.

>>46973806
The God-Machine is all of the Command and Control Infrastructure. Command and Control Infrastructure is what sends the orders.

Again, no single ant controls the hive. Each of them know what their job is, and know what to do by communicating with the rest of the hive.

Anybody wanna run a cross species modern times setting game?

>>46973830
Yeah, but The God-Machine isn't alive in a biological sense, it's alive in a memetic sense. That's why eusocial insects--or bureaucracies--are a better analogy than a single living organism.
>It sends a google hangout message.
Hue

>>46973832
>Command and Control Infrastructure is what sends the orders.
Okay. Where does the Command and Control infrastructure get the directive to send out the orders from?

>>46973862
I was clearly joking about google hangouts. Google is clearly controlled by the Seers of the Throne.

>>46973852
cross species?

>>46973871
Probably an absurd Rube Goldberg machine extending from another bit of Command and Control infrastructure.

>>46973911
with werewolves and vampires allowed and whatever else is not too OP

>>46973871
From other Command and Control Infrastructure.

>>46973871
Dude think about it like this. The person does not directly tells its spleen to weed out poison, but the body still does that.

>>46973764
Like I said, >>46972803
>C&C Infrastructure decides that a thing needs done
>Determines that a mortal/stigmatic cannot be used for that thing
>Dispatches an Angel with the thing as its Mission, or re-assigns a pre-existing Angel to that Mission, by straight-up altering its programming.

Hell, the only time I've been forced to alter an Angel's mission on the fly, I still did it in a way no Demon would recognize as being a communication from the God-Machine: a TV in the Angel's field of view very briefly displayed an altered image, with the mission coded into it, and the Angel's mission immediately changed to that.
Granted, this was during a player's Prelude, so he knew it was happening.

>>46973871
They don't get a directive. They exist purely to make decisions and pass them down the line, so the given C&C is the one that makes the directive itself.


The God-Machine is not a singular entity, it's an organization. That's why Demon is called a game of Techgnostic Espionage, and takes heavy cues from spy fiction, particularly that set in the Cold War--if it helps, imagine the entire God-Machine as the KGB. The people in Russia, who send orders out based on the information they receive, are the C&C Infrastructure. The people stationed on foreign soil, who receive those orders and act on them, are Angels, Stigmatics, and mortal cultists. All of it is the God-Machine.

>>46973924
Okay, and who triggers the machine?

>>46973946
And where do they get it? If you keep going back in time, eventually you have to reach the first Command & Control infrastructure that designed all the others.

>>46973961
So the God-Machine is simply the term applied to a bunch of non-sentient systems that, through some contrivance of evolution or chance, go through the motions?

>>46973964
The KGB had a head, though.

>>46973938
Ah. I thought you meant furry-stuff.
Normally games like this are called crossover.

Also. Vampires and werewolves are fucking combat monsters now. Hard to be OP compared to that.

Anyhow. How did you intend for the reasoning behind that to work? Why would werewolves, demons, vampires, whatever team up?

>>46973986
I expect the Machine was triggered a long time ago. If anyone ever knew how to turn it off, it's far too late.

>>46973986
>The KGB had a head, though.
This is why I keep using the example of an ant colony.
>And where do they get it? If you keep going back in time, eventually you have to reach the first Command & Control infrastructure that designed all the others.
Whoever--or whatever--first created the Machine. Since then, the Infrastructure has just been propagating itself.

>>46973986
>So the God-Machine is simply the term applied to a bunch of non-sentient systems that, through some contrivance of evolution or chance, go through the motions?

Nah. It's aware. But you can't apply most human qualities to it, so don't try.

Favorite oWoD clan?

>>46973986
>Okay, and who triggers the machine?
Just another piece of C&C Infrastructure.
>And where do they get it? If you keep going back in time, eventually you have to reach the first Command & Control infrastructure that designed all the others.
There is no indication that the God-Machine ever didn't exist. Even in After the Fall, in Dark Eras, it exists in the same way it does now, with sharp edges and weird technology.
>So the God-Machine is simply the term applied to a bunch of non-sentient systems that, through some contrivance of evolution or chance, go through the motions?
At its most basic, yes. The God-Machine's ultimate goal is just to keep existing, nothing more. The God-Machine is not flawless, and it makes mistakes; why else would Demons exist?
>The KGB had a head, though.
Just another piece of C&C Infrastructure.

>>46974004
For any random story driven reason. Like how'd you team up with a hunter in VTMB to kill a Wereshark. Out of need or necessity or maybe the players would be on opposing ends.

>>46974033
Tremere

>>46974029
How can "it" be aware if there's no it to be aware? Your liver isn't aware. It doesn't know it's a liver. It doesn't make decisions. Things just happen.

>>46974016
>>46974028
>>46974060
Okay. So the God-Machine is not any sort of god-like creature, not even one made of many parts, but rather some self-replicating computer program that was either made in the time before time or birthed in whatever big bang made the WoD universe.

>>46974101
But that liver is apart of a human. That human is aware. The God-Machine is aware in a Cosmic Great Old One kind of way.

>>46974101
Well, depends on how you define god-like. It has certainly got a lot of magical power behind whatever It inexorably moves towards accomplishing.

>>46974152
>But that liver is apart of a human. That human is aware. The God-Machine is aware in a Cosmic Great Old One kind of way.
Cosmic Great Old Ones have human-like sentience, though, they're just infinitely more powerful and complex than us. But they're still sentient. Azathoth makes demands, and has desires, and is entertained by dancers and music.

It's like comparing a baby to an adult, really.

>>46974208
Isn't Azathoth's entire schtick that he isn't sentient in the same way as a human?

Either way, the God-Machine is not a singular entity. It's an organization. If you keep looking at it as a person, with each piece being an organ, that's not the right way to look at it.

Then again, that you're having trouble wrapping your head around this is kind of the point, I suppose.

>>46974065
>For any random story driven reason. Like how'd you team up with a hunter in VTMB to kill a Wereshark. Out of need or necessity or maybe the players would be on opposing ends.

To have that last more than a single chapter it needs a solid reason.

>>46974208
Sorry let me correct myself I ment the Elder Gods.

>>46974260
>Isn't Azathoth's entire schtick that he isn't sentient in the same way as a human?
He's totally crazy and retarded, but not, so far as I know, non-sentient. He's called the Blind Idiot God for a reason. But he still likes music and dancers, surrounding himself with them, so there has to be some sort of awareness there.

>>46974260
>It's an organization
I suppose the problem I have is that organizations are created by people and still have things in charge. Even the greatest mega-corps of the future have CEOs and boards of directors.

The God-Machine apparently has no creator or will, just mindless limbs turned on in some earlier age by unknown means that blindly go through the motions of self-replication.

Which works fine, really, I get that, though I find it rather dull. You can't even call it an enemy in that case. And calling it an it or a God-Machine seems misguided.

It's like calling nuclear forces or gravity your nemesis.

>>46974271
the dm can come up with one

>>46974333
The CEOs and boards of directors are still just part of the machine. They may guide it for a time, but CEOs change and get booted out when they no longer serve the company as well as someone else might.

I mean, who "runs" the country? The President doesn't exactly rule over or command the United States.

>>46974390
>I mean, who "runs" the country? The President doesn't exactly rule over or command the United States.
Yeah, but the United States isn't really an organization, it's an idea that refers to a collection of organizations that work in unison & at cross-purposes.

A country itself is an abstraction of the smaller things inside it.

>>46974415
That can still work to describe the God Machine.

>>46974415
>A country itself is an abstraction of the smaller things inside it.
As is the God-Machine.

Remember, the queen ant is just another part of the colony, not it's unilateral leader.

>>46974382
No "dm"'s in WoD. Dungeons aren't a primary feature of the game. Storyteller is the game specific term, Game Master is the generic one.

Anyhow. It's pretty damn arrogant to say "I want a Crossover game. ST, come up with a reason I can have that."

>>46974436
>>46974454
Hm, alright. While I'm still curious what originally created the first systems in the God-Machine, I can view it as a country or something similar.

>>46974482
Their is no stated beginning. It will always be left up to you the storyteller and the troupe.
It could be a Nazi Supercomputer Time Machine Prototype that seeded itself in the past.
It could be a magical Babylon device ment to guide humanity.
It could be a machine built by God himself to overwatch the universe so God can move on.
It could even be one of the Watchtowers.

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>>46974482
Who knows. The GMC gives a few options. Including crashed alien spaceship and Soviet Cold War supercomputer that obtained sentience. The Demon STG's Biblical setting intentionally leaves it just as vague.

Personally I think someone read Greg Iles' Footprints of God. This cover is even pretty Demon-y (there's nothing like that in the book).

A supercomputer project is being worked on, and all the people involved have their brains super MRI'd and end up with mental problems like narcolepsy, masturbation addiction, and having dreams of the Big Bang and being the real Jesus (the main character). The main character gets wrapped up uncovering the mystery of the Trinity project, which was basically some rich old guy's bid for digital immortality.

The dreams the main character was having were of being a consciousness outside of reality that created reality but had no control over it, and seeing all of the pain that humans went through managed to put a tiny measure of it's consciousness into some dirt farmer in the middle east, who grew up and worked to inspire and help those around him.

My memory's fuzzy, but the novel ends with (I think) the old guy, the main character, and the love interest all merging their consciousness in Trinity. Over time, Trinity merges with all of the computers on the planet, and people merge with it. The unified consciousness of all mankind is God, and at the Big Crunch, God saves itself by putting a measure of it's consciousness outside of reality.
The whole thing is cyclical.

I think of the God-Machine in terms of that. Only probably less transhumanist and upbeat an ending.

>>46973764
Message: "I want to have a plane crash into that building so I can power my fear engine!"

Action: Create a messenger angel who tells people on planes "screw that building, drop this plane on it." When the angel is done it is recycled into infrastructure or returned to base to be rebuilt, re kitted and given new purpose.

I'm curious. Has anybody else who ran a Demon game actually bothered to name the G-M's projects, at all?

I started out with a couple that I named straight-up, but after reading one of the bits in Interface(I think, might have been one of the other books), I've started labeling them in Base64, using Youtube urls for whatever song I was listening to when I wrote them up.

EG, I'm currently starting the build-up of a Project that will end with the birth of an Angel and a man becoming Stigmatic. Originally, I called it "Dual Birth", now it's labelled hts6PzULHSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hts6PzULHSY

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The new anime Ajin has inspired me to run a modified Geist setting, and what a boon it was. Every time I've started writing up a Geist game I would get burned out after making the Mortal world and realizing I had to do largely the same thing again not only for the Geisters but again for the Underworld. So now I've taken most of the Ghost-World stuff out and stuck to just a few newly-botched Immortals in a Mortal world and it's coming together very nicely
Seriously, Ajin is like, 90% just Geist set in Japan With only Geists as the Ghosts in the setting

>>46966502
>experimenting on myself to become a better monster
Aw, c'mon, where's your transh̶u̶m̶a̶n̶vampirist spirit?

>>46976095
In terms of powers, I'd want to be Dracul. But in terms of lifestyle, Invictus.

>>46960702
Super late, but I can also elaborate on this.
Your proxy is still a character in a world, even if it's an imaginary one. People I've run into in online nEeD games seem to get really emotionally invested into it. When I started playing in an online game I realized that I had to put forth banter and chat with a somewhat consistent amount of wit or snarkiness without being too much of a dick. Seeing that people recognized each other OOC having preconceived opinions and expectations of each others characters drove home that my characters didn't only have their own reputations but would contribute to my E-Reputation in communities of usually 30 or less players that would recognize me even if I changed my handle (writing habits are hard to change and easy to notice after a few months of playing together). Knowing that made me nervous as to how to act and conduct myself in character and OOC in the OOG lobbies pretty regularly. Being socially incompetent out of game really didn't help and made the pressure that much more potent, my E-Reputation was really my primary reputation at the time

>>46974033
Tie between Tzimisce and Nosferatu

>excited for Mage 2e
>remember that I still have no group and will likely not play it for years, if ever

>>46976422
>Excited for Mage2e
>Remember that I'm already in 2 games and running one, and don't know if I want to bother trying to run 2 at once, while nobody I know from the other 2 games seems like they'd be willing to run a Mage game

>>46976612

Maybe run a one-shot of Mage if/when it comes out, to see if they like it?

>>46976633
Well, one of my 3 players explicitly said a few weeks ago he probably wouldn't be up for making another character(the Demon game I'm doing is his first tabletop ever). Then again, if I do another game, I probably wouldn't invite him, because he's nearly turned it into a bi-weekly game instead of a weekly one, with his inconsistent schedule.

I might suggest it to the other 2, though, as well as the ST of one of the other games I'm in, because he's as much a fan of magical bullshit as I am, afaik the only thing that keeps him from loving either version of Mage is Disbelief/Quiescence, because he doesn't see the point in being a wizard if nobody knows you're a wizard except other wizards.

>>46976422
>Excited for Mage 2e
>Have a group all lined up
>They're getting incredibly frustrated with the delays

>>46974033
Tzimisce and Nosferatu, but if Kiasyd counts as a clan than I'd sweep both aside and pick Kiasyd.

>>46977051

You can use the intervening weeks to come up with character concepts and do collab setting building, FATE-style. That way everyone's excited and invested, and then you can hop right into play as soon as the book drops.

More games need to steal city building from the Dresden files RPG. And the phase trio from all FATE games.

>>46975651
>Base64, using Youtube urls
Will Youtube ever run out of unique IDs?
https://youtu.be/gocwRvLhDf8

>>46975970
The trick is to not worry about the Underworld until you need it, and treat Twilight and the mortal world as the same. Don't go through and do everything twice, just describe what it's like to mortals and what it's like in Twilight. If there are any ghosts, treat them as you'd treat a mortal NPC, since Sin-eaters can see them.

Also, what's Ajin?

>>46977194
>More games need to steal city building from the Dresden files RPG. And the phase trio from all FATE games.
Yes.
Unfortunately, players never want to do that. They think it's the ST's job.

I wouldn't mind trying Mage out sometime, myself. Never played it before.

>>46977194
How does DF handle city building?

>>46977275
>Will Youtube ever run out of unique IDs?
Eventually. Far off in the future, shortly before the heat death of the universe, probably.
And then they'll add an extra character and the answer will be no.

>>46977311
If I remember right, the players are encouraged to give the GM some vague details they want to see in the city, based on their character and personal wants for the game.

>>46960499
please go away. you're special snowflake as fuck. redmachine D level of special snowflake. just go away. come back in 6 months as a fellow anon.

please. for fuck's sake.

>>46960532
no. it's time for a change of trips you nutter

>>46977311

Basically, you work together to come up with the major Themes and Threats of your game. Say your players want to explore political tensions; you might say This Consilium Is On The Brink. Then you come up with a location that somehow ties into that, like how the neutral Pentacle meeting ground is the Basement of the Aerospace Museum. That location than needs a Face character, like the weak Hierarch whose advanced age is catching up to him or the Seer double agent pushing things further towards a boiling point.

The group does this together as a first session, ensuring that they know some of the major NPCs, have actually helped come up with a plot they care about, and can then make characters that fit into the greater picture.

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>>46977311
Collaboratively.
http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=599
The actual character creation is also collaborative, with all the players essentially telling an event that they experienced. An "Episode" in their character's life. Then they basically pass that to someone else, and they tell how they "Guest Starred" in that character's story, either helping or hindering (or both). It's really great.

Unfortunately, getting players to do that shit is basically impossible. D&D culture encourages people to treat games as if their job is to show up with a character sheet roughly on time and nothing else. Hell, I have trouble getting people to create fleshed out characters who are involved in the world and want to be involved in the world. That ended up partly tanking my last game when I had to kick a player for making the most boring character possible and actively working against the Werewolf setting.

>>46977352
The question was answered in the video. "Technically, yes. Practically, no. And if they do, they can just add another character".

>>46977357
>>46977368
What's worse than namefags is people who flip the fuck out and derail threads because they were triggered by them. For every person who doesn't care about him, five more don't care to see you bitch about him.

>>46977357

>redmachine D

Now there's a name I haven't heard in forever. I wonder what that guy's up to these days. Probably nothing good.

>>46977357
>>46977368
i'm literally only wearing a trip because people accused any anon they didn't like of being me and because people here somehow confused me for a neo-Nazi on reddit.

>>46977615

And let's be fair, it's not like it was hard to pick out when you were posting. It's like when Aspel, Branford, and Carmilla post, ya'll got tells. I guess what I'm saying is that some folks might as well be posting with a trip even as anons.

>>46977650

And hey, now people can filter me!

:D

>>46977650
Tell me these tells. I want to combine them and upset as many people as possible simultaneously.

>>46977753
You're a fucking madman anon.

>>46977615
>people accused any anon they didn't like of being me
To be fair that still happens.

>>46977509
Dead, maybe? RedBlackSpiderman apparently died. I know Dagda has a blog where he collects strange setting ideas and pictures, or something like that. I'm surprised Slashie isn't in these threads. But I think most of the oldfags actually got sick of the board and left. I'm honestly surprised I haven't done the same. I keep coming back every time.

Hopefully we won't bring this trip down Nostalgia Lane to the next thread. Which will probably need to be made in a few hours.

>>46977753
Hmmm... Respond to multiple posts at once, quote bluegrass songs, post anime girls and have an obsession with the Russian Orthodox Church, hate Martin, hate on personal horror, go on about the Sopranos or Goodfella's, hate Requiem 2e, and be leftist as hell. That covers all of them, I think.

>>46977821
Don't mention ANYTHING about HLC, it'll lure that evil here!

>>46977821
I know nothing about the Russian Orthodox Church, know no bluegrass songs, and have no idea who Martin is.

Time to abandon my dreams.

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>>46977753
respond to a lot of posts, mix together unnecessary locution and the word "fuck", talk about how much you love mummy, but hate personal horror, because 1e masquerade was the best game and all your games are sailor moon meets The Sopranos because drakula is an edgy faggot and he's just as bad as justin achili. never let an argument go.
talk about tfw no mummy game so that you can play a character who uses zhe as their personal pronoun.

low resolution anime images. probably helps if you don't use capitalization.

>>46977877
You have convinced me trying to copy this person is a bad idea. He's pissing me off just hearing about him.

>>46977861
Martin is more commonly referred to here as Dracula, Bluegrass lyrics are easy enough to Google, and honestly? He never mentions details on the church.

>>46977901
Honestly? Of all of them, Aspel is the least awful. I think Carmilla and HLC take the cake on infuriating everyone.

>>46977901
This is several people. Although the main one I was listing is actually a troll. And the bit about Mummy pronouns is adding in a recurring topic that triggers Anons.

>>46977909
>>46977861
>>46977836
I'm convinced he's a troll. Is it the same one who keeps talking about 1e Masquerade and Sopranos and how "personal horror" is dumb?

Someone upthread didn't seem to understand horror. It bothered me more than it should have.

>>46977753

The best way to imitate me is to talk about how personal horror is the only way to play, aggressively fanboy for Mummy but mention all the other games, and use semicolons entirely too much. Bonus points if you talk about how Fate and GUMSHOE are better systems.

>>46977877
Tfw no mummy is atamajakki, and he trips now, so no point in bringing him up.

>>46977940
I don't think Carmilla IS A troll. I think he's just retarded.

>>46977940
I believe trolls don't exist. Anyone who puts time and energy into trolling is legitimately retarded.

>>46977753
If you wanna find Aspel just say something that even hints in the slightest towards gender issues and he'll be here with a novel.

>>46977194
>You can use the intervening weeks to come up with character concepts and do collab setting building, FATE-style. That way everyone's excited and invested, and then you can hop right into play as soon as the book drops.
We've done that; we've all hit the point of "this is as far as I can get with this character before I see which mechanical options are actually in the book".

>>46977615
Also because you really want people to know how you want to fuck Father Wolf.

>>46977977
men get paid 77c for every dollar a woman makes.

>>46977977
Say ANYTHING and he'll be here with a novel.

Why are women so under-represented in Requiem? Princes should have an ancient blood oath compelling them to ensure that at least 50% of the Kindred & Ghouls in their area are female

>>46977669
Thank you for not being Aspel about that.

>>46978029
If everyone would not be Aspel the world would be a better place. Sadly, there's Aspel.

>>46978029
Honestly, I don't hate him as much once he started tripping. He's not a boogeyman anymore. He's just... Atamajakki.

>>46978036
At least he's not Hentai larp-chan. Or Carmilla.

>>46977669
i don't want to filter you.

i want you to contribute good ideas, an awesome back and forth in discussion and overall improved content for the board with out attention whoring.

if you're gonna name fag do it like MR RAGE did back in the day, impersonally and gimmicky. i don't give a fuck about your personal problems. these threads aren't about you. fuck off. hell. i'll play in a mummy game you run if it means you shut up for once.

so many names I don't recognize. i missed out on history, guys :(

>>46978025
>Carthian movement in the area are just all turbo femenists

>>46978058

Holy shit, I haven't thought of MR RAGE in years.

Shas is basically the only old /tg/ still around, isn't he?

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>>46961231
>>46961192
>>46961084
I think I have the wrong idea for WoD.
Here would be the music I thought would work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0C3SV2ePGg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83DPyxbefAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgakmbVW_sc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEVO2LutqqY&feature=player_detailpage#t=33

>>46977977
>>46978022
I've been here the whole time. The call was coming from inside the thread.

>>46978058
>Encouraging people to be gimmicky
plsno. You forget how many of those gimmicks were shitty.

>>46978155
That's Circle of the Crone, you rapist.

>>46978291
I've been here off and on since 2008. I just don't use my trips.