In a typical D&D setting, are most people aware that hit

>>46908425
No. They are aware that different weapons can mess you up more or less bad, that different spells and potions can fix you up partially or completely, and that different people can take a fiercer beating than others.
Hitpoints are a game mechanic, just as rolls and ability scores are. Nobody in the setting is aware that they exist, because they are all a shorthand to represent things that happen in the game world.

>>46908425
I could go with it for a less-than-serious game. Sort of a 4th wall breaking thing to convey that information to the players.

It would be like an in-game version of item descriptions. Like your health potion might read "heals 2d8+3 hit points", and a sword might have an inscription indicating it's a +1 to hit. But most NPCs won't cry about how they only have three hit points left.

>>46908497
This. They're and abstraction. Blows before hitting zero are usually superficial ones unless you're hit by a critical strike. Only the one that drops you is a mortal wound.

>>46908497
>that different people can take a fiercer beating than others
That's what I'm asking.
If they know that a veteran fighter can take a flask of acid to the face and be completely fine, at worst needing only a full night's rest to heal, would they attribute it to luck even though it's a consistent repeatable phenomenon, or would they acknowledge that there's something special about that one fighter because he's been in so many fights?

>>46908775
What kind of shitty edition lets you recover acid damage from a night's rest?

>>46908775
don't consider hitpoints as literal representations of a creature's hardiness.

Perhaps that high HP fighter manages to cover up his face better than a low hp fighter would. It deals the same damage mechanically, but the low hp less experienced fighter just took a flask of acid in-game straight to the face, but the veteran fighter managed to avoid some of it.

also it's not like every weapon attack is getting a limb cut off or getting stabbed through the chest. I often do the "The sword hits you in your side and is deflected by your armor, however the impact of the blow leaves some bruising" when a character takes non-lethal damage.

>>46908425
HP represents luck and fatigue more closely than meat points, but it's a game-y mechanic, don't try to make it anything else.

File: .jpg (71KB, 870x623px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 870x623px

>>46908864
This, it's all in the description (and some acknowledgement that everyone ignores minor inconsistencies for the sake of fun, just like you do when Ahnuld takes a bullet to the shoulder and is back to fighting in the next scene).

The first level fighter takes the acid full to the face and dies, his skin melting off his skull.

The veteran reacts with catlike reflexes and either catches it on his armor or shield, sidesteps and gets splattered, etc--resulting in painful but superficial burns.

And as a general thing, characters look godawful after walking out of combat--clothes torn, bloody and filthy, bruises etc.

It also helps if you play editions without HP and damage bloat. If an assassin needs a goddamn howitzer to take out a leveled NPC

My test for a good combat system is that an experienced fighter comes out on top most of the time, but he can still be ambushed and killed by a group of lower level/less elite warriors.

>>46909120
>If an assassin needs a goddamn howitzer to take out a leveled NPC, then it's hard to keep up the illusion.

I remember a higher leveled 3.x game where, going purely by the book, some Rogue PC couldn't kill a guy in his sleep despite nailing the critical, sneak attack damage, and all that.

>HP is abstract! Hits don't hit! You aren't actually surviving a dozen stabs to the face!
And falling damage? Are you not actually plummeting from the stratosphere then walking away fine and dandy?
>...

D&D-style HP is meatpoints, plain and simple. And that is absolutely fine, but I will not understand faggots that will argue up and down that D&D's HP system with its huge-ass bloat is in any way realistic or narrativistic or anything other than pure gaming stuff. D&D is not a hardcore realistic system; it is not meant for gritty combat and broken limbs. It is not a dramatic narrative system either; it is not meant for intricate and in-depth politicking. It is purely a system for hack n' slash dungeon crawls and it (mostly) works fine in that area, so stop trying to force the game to be what it's not.

>>46909016
The whole hp-as-luck thing breaks down hard when you realize it takes a dozen potions to regenerate one guy's luck, while another is filled up with one. Or that poison and being digested are just making a guy tired. And that each tabletop game around already has rules that say when you missed and when you hit. Also, luck is already represented with random elements.

I like to think that it's mostly a combination of being physically sturdier (yes, that doesn't make sense in RL terms) to withstand blows without as much injury, and also having the ability to endure injury without being incapacitated from pain and blood loss.

Also, ludicrous hp scaling (i.e. go from 4 hp to 400 hp) is not reasonable in games where the heroes are supposed to be constrained by human limits.

>>46908797
5E, you insufferable grognard. Newer equals canon.

>>46908864
>Perhaps that high HP fighter manages to cover up his face better than a low hp fighter would.
What if he doesn't try to cover his face? What if he deliberately pours acid on himself just to prove he can survive it?
What if he's caught completely by surprise, and the attacker does not have any sort of extra damage for surprise attacks?
You can't explain HP as partially dodging because it applies to many things that can't be dodged, such as toxic gas, extreme ambient heat, and Magic Missile.

>>46909220
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87

>>46909301
You're trying to make it anything more than a game-y mechanic.

>>46909159
in terry pratchett's night watch books, one of the main characters becomes so accustomed to assassination attempts that he can literally fight them off in his sleep.

a more common idea is that a character can have such a finely-tuned sense of danger that they wake up just in time to evade an assassination.

>>46909220
You seem upset.

>>46909301
Yeah, once you have human characters breaking 100hp, you're playing some kind of mythic superhero game.

I don't think you can even reach that in Basic D&D without going past level 20 (barring stupidly lucky HD rolls). IIRC it can happen before 10th level in Pathfinder. Damage scales a bit as well, but not quite enough to match.

>>46909512
You seem to not have a counterpoint beyond lolumad.

>>46909730
>counterpoint beyond lolumad.

>implying lolumad is even a point

>>46909335
RPGs such as D&D are more akin to films than real life.

You know that scene where a helicopter or a truck blows up, all the new recruits die in the inferno but big hero guy manages to consistently roll out at the last second, or cough up some dust and get on his feet? He has enough HP to survive every crash.

HP = your pay grade as an actor and importance in a major motion picture

>>46909220
was this whole thread just another excuse to bash D&D?

>>46909335
>Newer equals canon.

What? No it doesn't. There is no one 'canon'.

>>46909730
I'm not trying to make a counterpoint. Just saying you seem a little too fussy about elfgames.

So a fall is described as "meat points" and hits from enemies can be described as Action Hero Flesh Wounds. Apparently it's worked alright for decades.

Maybe you should go out for a walk.

In a typical D&D setting, are most people aware that market prices are consistent across thousands of miles and that a career as a merchant is utterly pointless?

>>46909159

Shouldn't that be that a coup de grace attack?

>>46909820
that would imply that all PCs have equal HP, which isn't the case.

>>46909335
>You can't explain HP as partially dodging because it applies to many things that can't be dodged, such as toxic gas, extreme ambient heat, and Magic Missile.

Also because whatever game system your using already included rules about dodging, and they don't mention hp at all.

>>46909951
No, it implies that all PCs can survive things that most others would consider lethal.

>>46909943
You're telling me you don't vary the price of items at least a bit from place to place?

>>46909903

Not even him, but you're coming off as being a smug, empty-headed casual.

>>46909335
>What if he doesn't try to cover his face? What if he deliberately pours acid on himself just to prove he can survive it?
>What if he's caught completely by surprise, and the attacker does not have any sort of extra damage for surprise attacks?

in these two instances it would likley just be instant death, HP assumes you are defending yourself, the 3.x DMG talks about that I forget the exact quote but it's something along the lines of "all the HP in the world isn't going to save you from a dagger through the eye"

File: mouthful of pussy.jpg (89KB, 910x620px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 910x620px

>>46910007
This

>>46909953

Plus HP are tied to CON, and not to reflex saves, DEX, WIL or anything else that ought to affect it.

File: consider the following 2.png (365KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

365KB, 1280x720px

>>46908545

What if healing items were literal dice that you had to hit the injured person with to heal them?

>>46910011
The rules you're looking for are Massive damage (single attack for >50 HP), I guess we could also throw coup de grace in there

>>46908497
>Hitpoints are a game mechanic, just as rolls and ability scores are.
This is the correct answer.

Some other weirdness, though: in older editions, Alignment is something that exists in lore as well and it is not actually an abstraction. Like, people intrinsically know what alignment they are. Asking is considered extremely rude. It's bizarre.
It raises some odd questions, and as far as I know it's never been addressed.

Happily in recent editions it's a descriptive thing rather than a prescriptive thing and isn't fully extent in the settings themselves.

If you look this closely at any system it's going to highlight inconsistencies. If you're that concerned with it why don't you go play Unknown Armies or Riddle of Steel or something?

File: HP system.png (457KB, 1714x1250px) Image search: [Google]

457KB, 1714x1250px

>>46910055
>Some other weirdness, though: in older editions, Alignment is something that exists in lore as well and it is not actually an abstraction. Like, people intrinsically know what alignment they are. Asking is considered extremely rude. It's bizarre.

don't forget alignment languages

No, because hit points are not meat points. Fighters do not grow redundant organs as they level up nor do they generate blood at a superhuman rate. Hit points in every edition explicitly represent luck, dodging ability, stamina, willpower, and a host of other intangibles that turn lethal hits into scrapes and narrow misses. People in a D&D setting may intuitively understand that some people are harder to kill than others, but absolutely nobody believes someone can get cloven in half with a greatsword and just keep on fighting.

If you don't understand this, you've been playing the game wrong for thirty years.

>>46910108
Spergs will now ask you why it takes longer for a Cleric to restore a higher level characters pluck.

File: TSR 2002A Original D&D Original D&D Boxed Set (Dark-brown woodgrain Box).pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>46910108
>thirty
Upwards of forty, bruh.

>>46910132
They restore pluck at the same rate, they just have a higher pluck cap.

>>46910108
>Hit points in every edition explicitly represent luck, dodging ability, stamina, willpower, and a host of other intangibles
Which one of those is refilled by potions, and why does it take more potions to fully heal a higher-level person?

>>46910055
>isn't fully extent in the settings themselves.

I agree it's not to the same degree, but I still think it's too much of a big deal even now. Alignment is woven into the physics of the setting - there are spells/items of 'Protection from [alignment]' and people who go onto opposite aligned planes get all discombobulated by it. Evil characters can cast 'Detect Evil' and know that they're Evil, which leads to silliness.

>>46908425
I think the biggest problem with 4e is the term "bloodied"
My players still think that it means they are literally bleeding.
"Hey, uh, if it's a stone golem, how is it bloodied?"
I can't have this conversation anymore.

>>46910190

Because:
>vague narrative reasons that are inconsistent and only work with huge amounts of handwaving

>>46910191
>there are spells/items of 'Protection from [alignment]'
As of 5e protection from Evil and Good now have nothing to do with alignment and now key off aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. Iirc there's only one spell that keys off alignment and it's in a super minor way.

File: dbz.gif (622KB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

622KB, 500x280px

Hit points represent the amount of positive energy flowing through a living creature (or the amount of negative energy flowing through an undead creature, or the amount of elemental energy in a construct). This energy is what sustains and animates the creature. The energy is expended when the creature is wounded or forced to push themselves past their limits to avoid harm. When a creature runs out of positive energy, their body can no longer animate itself and falls unconscious or dies. Conversely, if a person has enough positive energy their body will continue to function even after taking enormous damage. Magical healing simply involves topping up the body's natural reserves of positive energy.

Adventurers naturally build up more positive energy through exposure to dangerous circumstances and near-death experiences, although physical fitness and training also plays a role.

>>46910203
just replace "bloodied" with "fucked up"

when the shifter is fucked up...
when the golem is fucked up...
when you are fucked up you can spend a healing surge and...

>>46908425
No.

Long answer: no, you retard. Not unless you're playing some .hack bullshit

>>46909869
are there threads on /tg/ that aren't that?

>>46910108
>luck, Dodge ability, willpower
Yet they mainly depend on Con and not on other stats

>>46910190
Potions help you recover stamina and dodging ability, as people get tired when they have to physically exert themselves.If you had ever gotten off your lazy ass and sincerely excersized, you would know that a human can only push themselves so much before they start getting shittier, at which point some rest and relaxation will bring them back up to snuff. But then again I don't know why I bother. People who complain about hit points are universally too stupid to understand abstraction, and no amount of explaining will fix that.

>>46910802
In that case, damage that represents depletion of luck and willpower should be tracked separately and require a different means of healing.

>>46910891
>luck doesn't favor those who are more alert and full of stamina
>willpower and morale are independent of how you're physically feeling
Again, universally incapable of comprehending even basic principles.

>>46910643
>Check out my huge muscles and strong bones!
>They're the reason why I'm so lucky, dextrous and strong-willed.

>>46910802
>too stupid to understand abstraction

Sure, keep flatttering yourself.

Meanwhile I'll continue to correctly recognize all your posts as nothing more than clumsy handwaving.

By the way you're essentially now equating HP with stamina, which really only replaces one problem with an almost identical one.

>>46911054
>>luck doesn't favor those who are more alert and full of stamina

Dave: Roll the dice Jim!
Jim: H-here I go!
Dave: Snake eyes, too bad!
Jim: Shit, I knew I was too tired for this.

>>46911142
>>46911167
Equally as adorable. As I said, no amount of explanation will fix terminal idiocy.

>>46911221
>u stoopid

And no amount of shitposting will make your vapid arguments any less worthless. :^)

Remain rustled, kid.

>>46910891
Just use a different system man, we get it, HP is silly and full of continuity errors!

>>46911269
>HP is shit
>No it's not, because you can use a different system

Really? That's what we're reduced to now?

>>46911293
You've completely lost me. HP is fine if you're playing a game. If you want to rationalize things in a way that makes sense you're going to have to play a game like Riddle of Steel or come up with something better yourself.

>>46911245
And I encourage you to continue making yourself mad just because a great deal of people use a perfectly fine system of abstraction that you attempt to intentionally misunderstand just so you can feel slightly better about yourself. But please, continue telling me how upset I am that I agree with a large majority of gamers and game designers. I promise you it will make your problems go away.

>>46909220
It is clarified to not be "meat points" in the core book of the newest edition in hard writing in the combat section.
That is as hard evidence against your view as you could possibly ever get because it's literally written as plain text in a box on page 197 of the PHB.

Maybe in old editions it was vague, but they clarified that shit up at least.

>>46910294
Clever. It's a world of magic, hitpoints tend to be replenished with magic, so of course they're magic! Although I'd say it's the kind of magic that's impossible to measure in-universe, because that would be much too meta. Same deal with levels.

>>46910190
I like to think of it as flesh wounds and stamina, not "luck".
The more you're forced to block heavy blows instead of parry or deflect the more stamina you burn (this is true in real life; even not getting hit lethally is s pain in the ass), or the blow hits your armor and bruises but doesn't injure you, or you drain yourself physically by heavily dodging all the time (hard to do when fighting multiple people in armor).

Potions heal light injuries and restore lost stamina. Short rests are you taking an hour-long "breather" to get less tired. Long rests are a good nights sleep and patching up minor injuries (not necessarily skillfully) and getting rested.

>>46910108
Why would anyone NOT want it to be meat points? Fighters fighting on with twenty spears in the chest isn't a bug, it's a fucking feature.

File: LwYSpQ3.jpg (593KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

593KB, 1920x1080px

>>46911917

>>46911962
Exactly. Still he rides.

>>46910291
Plus Book of Vile Darkness/Exalted Deeds, but if there's anything you can justify to use alignment it's those.

I go with the "meat points" interpretation mostly to make fighters feel more relevant compared to wizards. In a world where the wizard gets to bend reality by leveling up, but the fighter only gets a bit more "luck and stamina", it's pretty easy to see how they're not equal. If instead though, the fighter gains the ability to get impaled, burned, and struck by lightning yet he can still chop his way through bad guys with ease, then he seems like a more fitting companion for the guy who can fly and shoot acid by waving his hands around.

>>46908775
That acid example is kinda dumb, anon.

>>46912647
I like to interpret it as whatever is most relevant to the character, so a burly fighter is able to get a spear shoved through him and grin while a rogue is able to roll with the blades and turn a mean cut away into a small nick.

also go fuck yourself in advance before you bring up the 'healing disparity' nonsense, it's all just for combat narrative

>>46910084
>don't forget alignment languages
I actually think alignment tongues are a cool aspect of the setting.

>these are the same people who trash on Fate for being too handwavey

>>46909335
5E Hit Points aren't meat points you fucking tard

>>46908425
This entire thread is exactly the reason why one shouldn't use a single tracker for HP instead of two trackers for Fatigue and Wounds.

>>46909159
This is why 1e had a percentage based "Assassination Table" that bypassed HP entirely.

this thread is retarded and everyone involved should feel bad.

it's a game