/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>>46424164
been here 10 seconds and still no fagness.

>>46424199
Chronicles of Fagness

>>46424199

Some of us have been running WOD games since the mid-1990's. The fagness is implied and assumed..

If I grab the CofD core rulebook from DriveThruRPG, am I going to get the original printing or will it include the error fixes in the revised PDF?

>>46424801
>>46424801
Should've made that a little clearer, sorry.

If I buy the HARDCOVER version, is it going to be the same as the old PDF or the revised PDF?

>>46424830
Revised

>>46424164
>At least now I've got a saved version of the CofD General logo I can just throw onto anything I want.
I generally leave the "General" part out of the logo these days. I've also started using different fonts and layouts, just to shake things up.

Here's my WoD general folder, it's got all my current thread starters. And also some random shit. https://dropfile.to/bZCrU

>>46424830

I believe OP only offers the hardcover after errata in incorporated. However. email Rich at OP to confirm. Better safe than sorry.

>>46424830
If you buy it, it'll be as up to date as it should be.

So vampires bodies are mostly dead. They don't have working stomach acids do they? In theory could a vampire cut open his own chest, place something important there, and then reseal it by healing himself?

>>46424976
Yeh but things like that sort of eject themselves while sleeping unless they spend willpower

>>46424976
Melissidae use their stomachs to hold a beehive.

>>46425072
Your mom uses hers to hold the sperm of random Mexicans.

>>46425146
and thats why we need the trump wall. to deport my people

so....beast how do you like it and has anybody played it.

>>46425419
I've read it, but I can't figure out any kind of campaign to run Beast in, that I couldn't run in any other game. (Of CofD, I mean)

>>46425446

I always figured that a decent way to do Beast is to play it up like a Hong Kong action movie where the Brood's the bagmen for the greater World of the Chronicles of Darkness.

>>46425446

One could run Netflix's Daredevil.

>>46425538
I suppose that could work...

But seriously here. What does Beast have that makes them special?

Vampire has their extremely hostile society, which is great fun to play in.
Werewolf has the whole shadow as their thing.
Mage has a power system that's on a great balance of free-form and rules.
Promethean has cool aesthetic ideas, and a very clear and unique game idea; Become human, suffer on the way.
Changeling has all of the hedge-stuff, and compelling story-stuff.
Hunter has the fact that you are just a human. Which is awesome.
Geist, even weak as it was, had the Underworld exploration, and that "You can see ghosts, you should take care of them, noone else will"-stuff.
Demon has the whole "watch everything you do" feel.

But I don't know. What does Beast offer that is unique?

>>46425657
You could also do that with mortals, with supernatural merits.

Also. How does Beast fit Daredevil?

>>46425663
Lairs and CROSSOVERS.

So, not really anything.

>>46425663
Conceptually speaking, I like a lot of the stuff behind Beast. Lairs, the Primordial Dream and the powers manifesting through the real world and how that would look. Everything else though is a hot mess.

>>46425663

You can build a cool lair, you can go to all the CofD realms if you really wanted to, and uh. That's it, pretty much. The default mode for Beast seems to be "look for the weird shit that doesn't quite fit in the CofD and deal with it", but there's nowhere near enough support for that.

>>46425707
The real problem is you can just grab Mage and Changeling and do most of the core concepts of Beast with better books.

>>46425446
i have tried also but can't do anything because there is no way to play them. when i played VTR i was a vampire who wanted to keep her humanity but knew the world was falling apart around her which caused her to become numb to the world and one of the females played told me this which BSOD.

Changeling had me as a shell of my former self who was trying to rebuild her life but could never go back to her husband because she was a abusive piece of shit, yet the fetch was the opposite of her and cared for him deeply.

mage....i was just a asshole
i have tried beast but when we did it we where just like.....now what. there is no motive to play and teaching people a lesson sounds stupid.

The book said that Pangeans can be as 'weak' as rank 3 and I'm wondering what such an entity would seem like and how their Omphalos Stones would manifest differently than stronger pangaeans? Also anything 'rumor' worthy for what the Great Predator's Omphalos Stone would be like?

>>46425419
Beast is a book devoid of direction, filled with mediocrity and which clings to the coat-tails of much better sourcebooks in the hope that they'll acknowledge it and grant it some sense of relevance.

Excuse me, xirs, when I moved into the World of Darkness, I was given a welcome basket that claimed to include the full spectrum of gender-neutral pronouns, which I am apparently mandated by law to use. The basket lack most of these pronouns, and I am only left with illegal gendered pronouns.

I trust you will correct the situation promptly.

Sincerely,

White Normal Male

>>46425359
>and thats why we need the trump wal

Vote DaveB, and make the CofD great again!

>>46425915
please digest a bag full of baby dicks, sir.

>>46425915
Shut quor mouth, we're sick of hearring quor complaints.

>>46425915
What is the problem? Some NPC's use non-standard pronouns. What is the big deal?

>>46425839
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/855280-pangaea-unleashed/page8#post857671
Semi-official stats for Fox, one of the Rank 3 Pangaeans and the first one to be hunted for her heart, from Chris

>>46426017

Rank 5 Pangaean.

>>46426017
Rank 5 nig nog, I wanna see them babby pangeans.

>>46426012

For many, it's not the existence or inclusion of the pronouns (or minorities, etc.), but the added gratuitously left-wing political, self-righteous, condescending virtue signalling that often accompanies the pronouns in many books (e.g,, sidebar in Mortal Remains).

>>46426147
Huh. Not a fan of Hunter, so hadn't ran across that sidebar. How bad is it?

Also, are there any other?

>>46426039
>>46426085
Right, my bad

Still, just imagine a Rank 3 Spirit of <Name> and give it an Arcanum, and you've basically got a Pangaean

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>>46426190
You're welcome.

>>46426147
But that's barely there. That is literally a mountain being made of a molehill. A molehill that amounts to "this marginalized group exists".

>>46426190
"This character uses ze because they don't feel comfortable as male or female. People like that actually exist in real life and monsters don't, so if that bothers you, you might want to think about why it does."
Basically the "Gays exist, wizards don't" argument when people were flipping out over Dumbledore being a cocksucker. Ironically, his brother is a goatfucker.

The sidebar isn't even as heavy handed as these things go.

>>46426262
Ok. I might be an idiot... But could you please point out the problem with that sidebar?

>>46426147

>but the added gratuitously left-wing political, self-righteous, condescending virtue

It's a fucking sidebar, Branford. It came out like a year or two ago. Can we please just not do this stuff before Aspel decides to white knight OPP's honor and a bunch of people (including you) decide they want to go dogpile him do their hot hot takes on leftism and gender politics and how college hurt them?

I'd rather talk about Beast than pronouns again, I am begging you people.

>>46426297
>I agree with the sidebar and believe the idea is *important*, therefore it is neither condescending or pretentious.

If you really don't understand why someone might find the content and/or tone of the sidebar needlessly insulting or offensive, including to many people who even agree with the underlying sentiment, well, that might be a thing worth taking a look at.

>>46426428
Not him, but while the tone is a bit harsh, I honestly can't understand why people are upset at the content.

Could you please explain why people should be offended by it? I can get that they are offended by the tone, but not by the content.

>>46426243

It's not just the available Arcana that make Pangaeans powerful and scary, but their added unique powers in addition to Influences and Numina.

>not using singular they

Plebians.

>>46426298
Some people take personal offence to them going "if you find this jarring, but not murder and monsters, then there's something wrong with you".

Can we PLEASE not get into this shit, I don`t wanna see Aspels massive fucking posts talking to five diffrent people about his agreement with the left. He has no one to love him in the world so he goes to them to find acceptance by preaching what they ask him to in his hopes that maybe if the world is open to people with weird shit someone might like him. So how about the fucking Lakers.

>>46426523
But that is a damn good point!

>>46426537
>So how about the fucking Lakers
I don't watch Basketball. Too many niggers.

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Daily reminder, if you don't like cWoD, you hate fun.

>>46426569
It's really not. Murder and monsters are completely normal in entertainment media, while people using retarded-sounding made up pronouns is not.

>>46426583
That Fish looks like a Dick.

>>46426583
It's in the same category for me as the cartoons of my childhood. I like them, in a nostalgic way. I enjoy thinking back to how much fun I had with it back then. But looking at it now, well, I can see the parts I enjoyed, but they are vastly overshadowed by the stupid.
But even through, I still like WoD. In a nostalgic way.

>>46426569
Yeah, but it's still confrontational and potentially indignant and self-righteous.

Flies, honey and all that.

>>46426471

How dare those uncultured rednecks refuse to acknowledge that using totally indeterminate pronouns most people cannot pronounce is little different than accepting murder and other terrifying things.

By Gaia, don't they release the indescribable violence of using grammatically correct pronouns!

>>46426626
Probably intentionally. Malkavians and their mind games.

>>46426651
But... Why does this upset you?

>>46426626
>That Fish looks like a Dick.

Exactly, and that's why we left classic WOD safely behind nearly 20 years ago.

>>46426537

>talking to five diffrent people about his agreement with the left.

"Identity politics" isn't the end all be all of the Left, unless you never go outside and all your politics are formed by the internet. That said I agree, the last thing we need is Aspel and Branford and god knows who else slapfighting for the thousandth time.

>>46426583

Somehow it feels right that the first new oWoD game in years that's not OPP's 20th Anniversary editions is going to be a slot machine.

>>46426673

Different Anon, but do you normally like or appreciate accusatory authorial rants implying there's something serious wrong with you, the reader, because of some disagreements over pronoun choice in a rpg book that has nothing substantively to do with the topic?

>>46426680
And it's back!

>>46426753

If there ever was an argument for digital piracy, or at least a salve for one's conscience, it's an author or publisher who doesn't fully appreciate that a diverse audience buys their books and has no compunction about explicitly insulting some of their customers.

>>46426243
>Still, just imagine a Rank 3 Spirit of <Name> and give it an Arcanum, and you've basically got a Pangaean
so you didn't read the bit about its powers at all

>>46426875

I still wanna try at least one of those offical White Wolf LARPs. I think I'm too ugly to Nordic LARP, though.

>>46424976
Yes but keep in mind that that is a real thing people will do in real life, so if for instance the vampire is trying to sneak something through airport security that method wont work.

>>46426875

Which is worse, the pronoun or WoD vs. CofD arguments?

>tfw I when I actually miss the "mage supremacy" discussions

>>46426963
What's there to discuss?

>>46426898
>I don't know what "basically" means
Of course there's the unique powers, yeah, but there's no guidelines for making those, and the basis for making them for any given Pangaean is the rest of their stats.

>>46426963
Here's an idea, let's talk about Touchstones. What's your character's Touchstone(s), and how have they come up in play?

In Dark Eras, The Sundered World, the Awakened Merit "Mystery Cult Influence" is mentioned (p. 4).

Has Dave previously spoiled the merit?

Looking at my copy of Beast and it looks like they forgot to put the manifestation list in it. The section that references it is in there and even says the chart follows it. It looks like it got forgotten/replaced with the flow chart and no one noticed.

>>46427071

Mages don't have (or apparently need) Touchstones in 2e.

>Mage Supremacy

>>46427108

OP probably needed space for important errata and decided to cut the list as superfluous.

>>46427133
Mortals and Hunters don't have them either
Mages are literally just Mortals with Supernal Magic.

Now BEAST, they don't have touchstones. Neither do Demons.

Kind of makes sense for Demons, though, since Cover isn't a measure of their mental state, just how well-hidden they are from the G-M.

A lack of touchstones is a bad thing, it means you get no benefits to resisting Breaking Points.

>>46427092
I Wish, it sound like a great merit to show the "puppet master" style play for most supernatural groups. Like the Invictus or Ivory Claw, no need to mention the Seers of the Throne.

>>46427133
Magex don't need something to remind them about humanity since they're still human.

>>46427323
Which is their greatest flaw.

>>46427283
All good mages avoid abusing power. Most mages fall down the Wisdom Ladder eventually.

>>46427231
>Mages are literally just Mortals with Supernal Magic.

Is that all?

>Now BEAST, they don't have touchstones

Beasts don't really have any recognizable morality or integrity stat to establish acceptable or baseline behavior. That's arguably one of the (many) problems with the game, and why other monsters like vampires are often comparatively so much more sympathetic and relatable to WW players.

>>46427323

Who you calling a filthy "human?"

> Mysterium Supremacy!

>>46427364
>All good mages avoid abusing power.

>tfw someone actually believes the Silver Ladder and Free Council propaganda

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Here's an important question:

Are magical contracts tax deductible?

Does the IRS have the power to seek and punish those who abuse them for gain?

>>46427475
Also, like a true Changeling picture, I just caught what is going on in the background

Im trying to create a bloodline bane to pushes a vampire towards an extremist of a believe. Like the American dream or the Catholic religion. Do you guys think this convoy that close enough?

Bloodline Bane: Septemi are far from being heroes, their blood addicts them to the rush of martyrdom, the pleasure inherent in giving of themselves for an apparent greater good. Septemi find that their higher soul pulls on them towards adherent believes, be it the Catholic Teachings or Women's Right. All Passionate show this partisan as a Persistent Addicted Condition. Unlike a normal Addicted Condition a Septemi can Never be resolved or removed

Resisting an opportunity to commit an altruistic act of her believe requires her to make a roll Humanity. Failure results in the Persistent Deprived Condition.

>>46427526
Yeah same here, took me a minute to realize it`s for that furry movie or whatever. Good pic.

So to anyone thats read it, how is the Promethean setting in Dark Eras? I saw The Hollow but that's about it from that section.

>>46428110
It gave me an idea for a chronicle of a freak show composed of Prometheans and Changelings.

>>46428110

It's all right. The Hollow are neat, but otherwise there's nothing particularly outstanding about the setting despite the fact that the Dust Bowl and the themes of Promethean sync up well.

>>46428180
I could see a Changeling dropping his mask as a fairly good carnival act, though doing so would probably kill any contract based tricks... unless said changeling absorbed the crowds amazement to fuel the rest of his act.

>>46426017
Sweet Jesus, Fox is terrifying.

>>46426673
>>46426753
So how about that Beast?

>>46428390

That Beast Anthology story DaveB wrote was good.

>>46428378
I know, right? How do you even make a weapon out of that many fox bones? Are you supposed to make a whip out of leather and bone? Because that would be metal as fuck.

Whats the closest youve ever had to full world spannig plot stuff like owod happen in a nwod game?

>>46428408

Yes, Dave's Mage story co-starring a bastet found in the Beast Anthology was excellent.

Hopefully Hal will show up in Mage supplements.

After reading To The Strongest, was I the only one to strongly prefer "Acanthos" and "Thyrsos" over "Acanthus" and "Thyrsus?"

>>46428325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKylAH8Uz3c
This show will never cease to be a good source of Changeling inspiration, in my opinion.

Granted, 90% of the Wesen have a Beast Seeming, but that last 10% so far has included a Darkling, an Elemental, and a Fairest(assuming the Daemonfeuer is a 1e Draconic)

>>46428721
Nope. Acanthos and Thyrsos, are, after all, the proper forms of the Greek words.

>>46428785

Yes, that's one of the reasons why I prefer spellings with the "o."

>>46428769
i rlly need to put some gay werewolf NPCs in my campaign. All we have right now are one ambiguously bisexual character & one ambiguously gay character in the player pack.

>>46429245
>tfw I provoke people into discussing gay werewolves without actually talking about gay werewolves

Go on...

>>46429245
>>46429322
Also, as a piece of actual advice, if you've got any characters that aren't explicitly straight or otherwise haven't shown explicit interest either way, reveal them to be gay instead.

A familiar face turning out to be gay is more realistic and interesting than new arrival Copy-Paste Flamboyant Twink #69

>>46429245
i had a trans player once play in game :)


she never once turned sjw or talked about peoples sexuality and when we asked why she said i'm a fucking vampire. so moral of the story is shut up

>>46429416
Nah she was saying it's obvious that she's a trans lady, you know, cause vampires are gay.

Checkmate, Mages.

>>46429416
The only example I've had of a legbutt other than me/the st in any of my games was a guy I recruited for my Demon game a month or two ago.
He made a Tempter Messenger and I ended up dumping more plot on him than anybody else, so I left myself in a bit of a bad spot when he ended up dropping the game and the rest of the group was still scattered and disconnected from each other.
I'm working on it, though.

>>46429416
Best response.

>>46426262
>if you refuse to use made up pronouns you couldn't possibly know in advance then you're probably a serial killer

noice

>>46429565
The leeps in logic is mind boggling.

>>46427323
So they get all the powers AND get to still be human?

Sounds pretty supreme to me

I wonder how many pieces of omphalos are out there being used as fancy paper weights and door stops? Do you think any Mages out there have weak ones that they think are just really old soul stones?

>>46429600
Their spleens are still very susceptible a werewolf claws or throat to a vampires fangs.
Yay very supreme.

>>46429386
>A familiar face turning out to be gay is more realistic and interesting than new arrival Copy-Paste Flamboyant Twink #69

indeed. there's a good candidate for it already although i kind of want to introduce a nubile twink swimmer for the teen wolf in the pack to get it on with ;)
>>46429416
i was talking about the characters, not the players. the players are almost entirely gay & bisexual men though ;)
and sexuality comes up because we're a really character-driven group & enjoy having sessions that are mostly dialogue & IC banter without a great deal of plot happening so we the characters talk about their lives a lot, which inevitably involves romance.

>>46429706
Also use of their powers can fuck up and kill them in ways no Werewolf or Vampire's can.

>>46429706
Aww, that's cute. You think you'll get within a continent of a Mage you're fighting.

>>46429600

Take a look around you, study history and never forget, humans are the very worst sort of Monsters.

What do you think happens when you give such a monster the ability to alter the very foundation of reality with little more than a passing thought?

> Mages are Monsters

>>46429747
It funny to me you think Every Mage has 3'-4 Dots in Space magic to avoid enemies and target them with sypathic magic easily.

>>46429747
Aw, that's cute, you think every Mage has the arcana necessary to travel quicker than a high celerity vampire or urshul form werewolf

>>46429802
Or a hunter with a sniper rifle and a clear shot on the mages head.

>>46429793
This is true facts.

>>46429793
And then when the dust settles the cabal member with Time magic can just undo anything bad that happened.

HOORAY FOR NO CONSEQUENCES

>>46429802
>>46429833
>muh ambush tactics

Thank Oracles for day-long armor spells

>>46429849
That would require Time 4-5 not sure. The Sand of Time maybe with extra Reach.

Also they got rid of all day Mage Armor in 2E.

>>46429887
Shit is 2e out? Sorry, my mistake. Can you link me to it

>>46429798
>>46429802

Meh, Fate is probably more useful defensively to predict attacks before they're even planned.

Obviously very few mages will have proficiency in all the Arcana necessary for every conceivable situation. That's why they form cabals (and pylons and columns). A few varied mages together are much greater (and scarier) than the sum of their parts.

>>46429894

2e still isn't out, but Dave has discussed some of the Arcana revisions.

>>46429894
Would love to, but it was in the last thread. Some Hero posted it during April Fools day, but the link is gone now to bad. Should have seen that new attainment system it's breath taking.

>>46429929
>Mages are so supreme they're playing an edition that isn't even released yet

>>46428721
>After reading To The Strongest, was I the only one to strongly prefer "Acanthos" and "Thyrsos" over "Acanthus" and "Thyrsus?"

Didn't DaveB comment not too long ago that he preferred "Acanthos" and "Thyrsos," but that it would have been too big and controversial a change for the new edition?

It's a shame, I like the TTS spellings.

>>46427231
Hunters REALLY should have Touchstones. The Bane system is pretty perfect for handling Tells.

I honestly think Beast and Demon don't have Touchstones because they didn't think to make them when it was being developed. They hadn't become a standard thing. Changelings have Touchstones, right?

>>46429416
>Not abusing everyone to get your way, or just for the hell of it
Terrible vampire.

>>46430013

Vampires, werewolves and changelings are in many ways very different mechanically and thematically than mages, beasts and demons in the CofD, particularly the near absence of a "morality" stat for the latter two.

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>I want to play mage

>>46429994
>Mages are so supreme they're playing an edition that isn't even released yet

Pfff, that only requires a Time 2 spell.

#ImPlayingMage2eNotYou

>>46430094

>You'll never Awaken with a fedora
>Try Beast, it's more your speed

>>46429996
>Didn't DaveB comment not too long ago that he preferred "Acanthos" and "Thyrsos," but that it would have been too big and controversial a change for the new edition?

Yep, but I disagree and believe people would have liked the change.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46007357/#46038762

My Dungeons and Dragons foreverDM wants to run OWoD Mage.

What do I do to prepare? Conserve ammo, never cut a deal with a dragon?

Page 94 of Book of Spirits mentions Void-Spirits, an obvious hook. They compel other spirits to eat them or be eaten, then split into two no matter the outcome. One runs away, the other keeps walking.

Any other information listed in any books about them?

>>46430134
Fedora tippers are more likely to want to play vampires than Other: The Kinning.

>tfw I don't actually mind Beast but will never get to play it because everyone else in the world is an unrelenting back of dicks and cunts who won't give it a chance

>>46430287
>>46430134
>>46430094

And my ST runs Mage as Gonzo Adventure, not Patrician Snobwank.

>>46430365
Then according to lore and the designers, he's doing it wrong.

>>46430365
>Patrician Snobwank.

Is that a Mastigos Shadow Name?

>runs Mage as Gonzo Adventure

Anything is possible and you should do play how you want, but that's certainly not the horror setting for which Mage was designed and intended/

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>>46424164
I'll throw some images your way for op images.

>>46430490
Maybe not intended in some far forgotten original plan, but it's definitely how it was designed.

>>46430262
They're probably just spirits tainted with the Lower Depths. There's not an awful lot on them.

>>46430510

Mage (or any other nWOD/CofD) game designed as gonzo adventure? Huh?

I believe you might be confusing CofD with classic WOD.

nWoD: 2deep4u.

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>>46430492

I want to see a Mage who has made a lifelong pact with a Summoners Entity for something minor and a pact for something equally as minor with a Gulmoth/Acamoth try to ascend.

Just to see the resulting brawl between the two screaming MY SOUL MY SOUL.

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>>46430492
Another.

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>>46430492
>>46424164

>>46430729
>>46430714
CofD is what happens when Lucifer finally gets the shits and builds his own universe.

>>46430742
He's done that.

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>>46430742
Fair enough. But then God goes and sticks an asshole super computer in it.

>>46430786
Yes. They call it CofD.

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>>46430729

Wasn't there a fallen angel statted out somewhere? Azazel or something? A rank 5 spirit who was pretty much immortal and unkillable in any permenent fashion?

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>>46430794

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>>46430857
Wat is this shit?

>>46430900
You've never seen the Malediction Prophecy? It's fucking amazing, assuming you're not ABPos. Get on that.

>>46430847
Never mind, found it. Back of Inferno. Neat. What I wouldn't do for a translation guide to Inferno - a lot of it was really well done. Mechanically and thematically.

>>46426471
>Spelling it "plebians"

Plebeian.

>>46430933
Would be an update, not a translation guide. They could probably simplify it to a chapter of a blue book supplement, like they did with skin walkers.

>>46428582
>Hopefully Hal will show up in Mage supplements.
"I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that..."

Reading through the Beast Anthology I think I like Family Reunion even more than DaveB's Premeditation. Premiditation is awesome, but Family Reunion is just a wonderful example of just how much Prometheans' and Beasts' worldviews clash and why they shouldn't try to mix.

So I'm not up on Mummy.

What the hell were the Deceived? Are any Mummies still being created, even as Shuankhausen? How does the Apotheosis change their Memory into their new power stat for regular Mummies?

And is there a book I can lay paws on for Nomenclature?

Questions for Dave:

Since Pangaeans can easily physically enter the Temenos and Anima Mundi, did some of them escape to the Astral during the Sundering? If so, are they the native inhabitants of the Dreaming Earth referenced in Astral Realms, pp. 79-82?

Has the Mysterium Order Merit "Egregore" now been changed to "Mystery Initiation" (See The Sundered World, p. 48, restricted Merits)?

>>46430365
>>46430490

It's certainly the new name of my non-existent garage band.

Introducing... Patrician Snobwank!

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>>46430729
>>46424164

>>46431525
>What the hell were the Deceived?

Lost sixth guild of Irem, betrayed and destroyed by the Shan'iatu and the other five guilds. Haven't read Book of the Deceived yet so I don't know the full story.

>Are any Mummies still being created, even as Shuankhausen?

Probably not, though regular mummies can become more Shuankhesen by fucking up royally.

>How does the Apotheosis change their Memory into their new power stat for regular Mummies?

Something about how Apotheosis transfigures their source of power into the power of their own soul and not the Sekhem granted by the Judges of Duat.

>>46431645
Uber-purified. Got it.

>>46431528
>Since Pangaeans can easily physically enter the Temenos and Anima Mundi, did some of them escape to the Astral during the Sundering? If so, are they the native inhabitants of the Dreaming Earth referenced in Astral Realms, pp. 79-82?

I'm Not Dave, but that sounds like a good theory.

I'm curious if there are any Dreamborn Animal masters for Fox, Rat and Spider, or an Elemental Archetype for Mountain.

>>46431525
>Decieved

So, Irem had six guilds, not five, but the shan'iatu in the Guild governing nomenclature magic and "art" as relic were planning to betray the others and lock them out of Duat while they went through with the plan themselves. The other five guilds got wind of it, and locked them out instead.

They're mummies, but instead of a Judge they have a broken shard of their creator Shan'iatu roaring demands for revenge in their ears.

>New mummies
No, but existing mummies can turn into Shuankhausen.

>Nomenclature

Book of the Decieved

>>46431525
Yes, but they're more skeletal and are called Harryhausen now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr4knvNNgtU
So, would you accept Hexxus as a Pangean?

So...the totem creation rules are intended to make spirits that are fantastically shitty without the players spending a significant portion of their gamestart merit dots on the totem merit, correct? Because my player's totem is uh...barely rank 1. Just a useless little lad.

>>46431865
What is it a Spirit of?

>>46431865
Why aren't your mortal cultists putting dots in?

>>46431870
car spirit with some aspects of competition, as it once inhabited a race car(now destroyed, RIP).

>>46431879
Keep feeding it and it will one day ride eternal, shiny and chrome...

>>46431874

Only werewolves in a pack, not regular humans. can purchase Totem Merit dots (at least until The Pack offers some new options). However, human pack members still benefit from Totem advantages.

>>46431865

Totems should grow with the PC's. If the characters are new, a Rank 1 Totem is not surprising, particularly if the pack is small or the players were stingy spending Merit dots on Totem

>>46431890

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kL8A4RNQ8

>>46431915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdwuxoSHsSo

>>46431906
Purify them all, they can take Totem dots

>>46431915
>>46431931

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTzcXSLjhI

>>46431940
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ZAx_OvKpM

this has road in the title.

>>46431710
Hey Dave, do you think you'll ever do a bit more on Sundered world? I'd like to see at least a lil bit on the Children of Bull, like their attainments or something!

>>46431692
>>46431528

I really hope that Mage 2e doesn't make too many significant changes to the Astral rules and setting that will render the supplement mostly useless.

>>46425663

Bully the bully, sort of.

>>46431865
How many dots is that? Shouldn't they at least be Rank 2? My players made one that was Rank 3, and there were only three of them.
Each player starts with a dot for free, and each of their Wolfblooded can start with a dot for free.

>>46432358
Well, Sandhya, from Premeditation, actually bullies the successful. Which is kinda fucked up, isn't it?

https://youtu.be/5-mTcFGiVzw
Something tells me this is about Spirits.

>>46432051
Probably not, no. It was neat, but we have better things to do. I don't like that we've got as many extinct Legacies as current ones written up as it is, yet alone doing more. (Although it was cool to put the Nagaraja into Dark Eras, we really do need more 2e Legacies written.)

I am plotting my immediate post-release stuff for Mage as release looms, and it doesn't include any further Dark Eras stuff.

>>46433475
How detailed are the Legacy creation rules?

I know there's a tendency for STs to not allow custom Legacies/Bloodlines/Lodges/etcetera, but from what you've said, Legacies are really important to Mage's setting, and most Mages are going to be part of a Legacy. That means that most players are going to be making their own, but treating it as if the Legacy exists in the world already, as opposed to their character creating it.

Although as an aside, that always seemed like a great way around the Power Stat X requirement to MAKE a Z-splat, at least mechanically.

>>46432051
Once Mage 2e is out, I very much encourage people to use the suggested Sundered World legacies as inspiration/test runs for experimenting with creating Legacies under the new rules.

>>46431528
Sounds like the Dreamborn to me.

>>46432358
But that's nothing special for Beasts.
Everyone can do that. And it fits the themes for Vampire especially.

regarding an argument on the onyx path site id like to ask you how important you think religion is to the local shadow ecology

>>46434518
Not very, but useful for spirits on our side of the gauntlet when building cults.

More important in the Astral

>>46434535
i mean in dark eras when more people are religious today is too secular so its hard to use as comparison

http://theonyxpath.com/prometheanmilestones/

Promethean spoiler hooo!

>>46434518
I personal think the nature of local religion's practical manifestations are more important than just the philosophical/metaphysical side of said religion to the Shadow. Spirits feed off the actual actions, emotions and the like involved, which means that many religions are likely to have a similar core impact - faith, zeal, awe and the like - around which the religion's additional trappings then accrete more Essence production - such as a cult that makes sacrifices creating blood resonance, death resonance etc.

>>46434555
I don't think it's necessarily true as a blanket statement that modern people are too secular compared to historical eras. Modern communities remain incredibly superstitious; powerful religions hold sway over vast swathes of the world's population; people are literally willing to kill and to die for their beliefs.

>>46434726
>I don't think it's necessarily true as a blanket statement that modern people are too secular compared to historical eras. Modern communities remain incredibly superstitious; powerful religions hold sway over vast swathes of the world's population; people are literally willing to kill and to die for their beliefs.

secularism has always been rising and even if there are more religious people now there are more seculars than ever before as well education means that people dont have to trust religion for answers

>>46434713
A lot of people complain about what Matt's doing with Promethean, but I think what he's doing makes sense from the perspective of turning Promethean into a game people actually play. There is a reason Promethean was often called "the best game you'll never play" after all.

>>46435013
>"the best game you'll never play"
I thought that was W:tO

>>46435050
Promethean is the Wraith of CofD.

>>46435050
I thought it was mummy

>>46435165
No, because Mummy is fairly shit.

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>>46424249
>Chronicles of Fagness

>>46434798
Doesn't really matter; it is absolutely trivial to locate swathes of the modern world where religious sentiments hold sway, much as they have in previous eras of history. Many of the elements of religion and the Shadow have the same implications in the current age as they did in Dark Eras periods.

>>46435436
Why you always post gifs from when Doctor Who was good anon? They make me have feels.

>>46434713
>Most notably, no known Extempore has so far come back from the River of Death.
That's an interesting change. Wasn't one of the sample Extempore impossible to kill?

>>46434798
>>46434726
>Modern communities remain incredibly superstitious; powerful religions hold sway over vast swathes of the world's population; people are literally willing to kill and to die for their beliefs.
One of the largest problems facing the world today is fundamental Islamic terrorism, and the the Republican party of the United States seems to want to combat it with fundamentalist Christianity. Not only are individual state and local governments trying to put out faith based (anti-)discrimination laws that allow them to ignore the 4th Amendment, they want what amounts to the Christian version of the "Sharia Law" they're so afraid of.

One of the Republican candidates for president is a Christian Dominionist who honestly believes that GOD sent his wife a message that he should run.

"There's more secularism" doesn't mean fuck all when you have the platform of a major political party who honestly 100% believe that Jesus will be okay with them breaking international laws.

>>46435441
ok but the west isnt religious anymore thats the big difference between then and now

A while back, someone posted an example Improvised Exploit and said it was from the Demon STG; iirc it let you prevent another supernatural being from using their powers, and one of the pre-reqs for it was Deep Cover. Anybody have the info for that, or a page number?

>>46435535
The west didn't exist in the Sundered World, I don't think. Pretty sure it's meant to be during the time when it was all one super-continent.

>>46435670
Dude. It's 7000 years ago.

The term Pangaea is used, but in a spiritual sense.

The geological Pangaea pre-dates the dinosaurs.

>>46435711
Okay, yeah, I looked it up.
Still, the People in TSW are the Vinca, and they were located mostly in south-eastern europe; the West still didn't really exist, as a populated area.

>>46435711

>tfw there's no official way to include real dinosaurs in a CofD chronicle

>>46435776
Mage with Life

>>46435776
>Core book Horrors
>Beast Horrors
>Life Arcana Shenanigans
>Idigam
>Et-fuckin-Cetera

>>46435852
I'm pretty sure that using magic to resurrect extinct species for your own amusement/profit would be a massive strike against Wisdom.

>>46435886
>Oh no, I've lost a Wisdom dot
>Who gives a shit, I resurrected dinosaurs!

It's worth it

>>46435776
Old Bones the Pangean?

>>46435776
Time magic bullshit.

>>46435852
>>46435879
>>46435911
>>46435920
The Komodo Dragon Pangaean
DaveB, please provide stats

>>46435886
>oh no, my hubris is iverwhelming me, robbing me of the stability of my soul
>oh wait, I'm a Mage, i'll just fix it

>>46435933
Other side of the world, alas.

The closest we can hope for is Crocodile.

>>46435951
Eh. It takes Archmastery to just 'fix' Wisdom.

>>46435965
Either would be good, I pegging for the big lizard to not have been killed by Father Wolf or the Wise and instead sealed underneath what would become Nazca in Peru.

>>46435920

Time is powerful, but without archmastery, it's bringing dinosaurs into the modern world.

>>46425419
we have a mixed splat game just for fun going on, and beast is fucking overpowered (i know, splats arent balanced in regards to each other), but its ridiculous. I haven't read the beast book but our ST has and the beast has, and it seems a little stupid.

>>46436111
>beast is fucking overpowered

On the one hand I didn't expect that. But on the other hand, given Dave's involvement I really should have

>>46436111
What other splat are in your group?

>>46436123
You know Dave has been in most game products, right?

>>46435933
Why am I getting the idea that the poison from this guys jaws not only burns the ground in the real world, it also affects the Shadow (making that area 'dead', things of the Shadow have a harder time moving within these burns and Locii do not form) and the Anima Mundi (I'm not sure how one would explain the poisoning of the Dreamtime, but it's pretty bad)?

I'm just saying I think Old Bones sounds interesting. Also I'm not really dictating anything, I'm just throwing my ideas out there.

>>46435933
>The Komodo Dragon Pangaean

Komodo Dragon escaped the Sundering. It's now a powerful Animal Master dwelling in the Dreaming Earth.

It occasionally sends dream messages and visions to its loyal and devoted followers in the material world.

How else could we possibly explain both DaveB's intimate knowledge of the Astral and love of large reptiles?

>>46436174
>You know Dave has been in most game products, right?

Increased Dave involvement = increased power creep and omni-applicable powers

>>46436111

I'm no fan of Beast, but the final PDF did't remove some of the more controversial, overpowered crap like the soul stealing power.

Beast are now less overpowered, and more directionless and boring.

>>46436236
Like when he removed extended Casting from mage for 2e.
No wait, that single step by itself already made 2e Mages vastly weaker than their 1e counterparts, even counting everything else 2e Mags get.

Maybe you are thinking of somebody else?

>>46436174
>What other splat are in your group?
2 Ghouls, 2 werewolves, 3 humans/hunters. The ghouls are debating talking to their vampire to be turned themselves or if they want to stay 'human'. But its mostly in relation to the werewolves. He just seems like he outclasses them in every way

What if the Dark Mother was a Pangean?

>>46436326
clarification: i meant the Beast outclasses the 2 wolves

>>46436335

What if the Dark Mother was my dick

>>46436123

Dave's written for every CofD gameline. He's one of the primary WW "go-to guys" over the last decade

He was also only responsible for Lairs in Beast, one of the few sections that received a largely positive fan response.

Interestingly, Dave's next development project is Deviant. He's explicitly mentioned that this new major splat will comparatively be one of the weakest power-wise next to Hunters.

>>46436335
She's the Principle's shadow, same was the gm is it's pet robot

>>46436354
>>Interestingly, Dave's next development project is Deviant. He's explicitly mentioned that this new major splat will comparatively be one of the weakest power-wise next to Hunters.

I believe what he said was they're balanced against the enemies they bring with them, literally pointing out that you can play high power (the Hulk) but then that gives you big enemies (the US army). Doesn't sound too weak to me.

>>46436236
>Increased Dave involvement = increased power creep

The only people who really decide such matters are Rich and the various gameline developers. Dave is currently only developer for Mage and Deviant, and the general increases in power among all major splats in the CofD second edition games began well before his tenure as a developer.

We just put out the latest podcast, where we interviewed one of the "End of Line" players, and talk about Nordic Larp. http://podcast.darker-days.org/e/darker-days-radio-70/

>>46436417

No, Dave expressly mentioned that Deviants will mostly be lower-powered like Hunters, although his primary stated reasons was because their opponents will usually be human conspiracies. He intends to include options for higher power-tier play, but such characters will be intended as the game norm.

>>46436346
How, werewolves are murder hunting machines?
What does the Beast do to make him better the two werewolves at that?

>>46436487
>Nordic LARP

>Say "hi" to Dracula, wish him the best, and then please keep those 90's gothy Euro-edgelords away from the CofD

>>46436532

From the interview, the LARP seemed better in practice than as advertised. As for keeping CofD pure of his "taint", we may see what he says when we interview him in the future.

>>46436638

Just wanted to not that I intended no criticism of DDR.

I'm basically amused by Dracula, and wish Paradox the best with their WW IP. Nevertheless, I can't say I've been too impressed by some of the "edgy" comments in recent interviews about the classic WOD setting and hints of their vision for future products, TTRPG and otherwise (e.g., discussion of 9-11 attacks, etc.)

I simply hope for a continuation of what appears to be their benign neglect shown to the CofD.

>>46436517
Probably either ranged auto fire agg damage or aoe grapple lethal knockdown shit. Starting Beasts are overbearingly deadly compared to basically everything else, so if the two wolves are primarily fight guys they have reason to feel outclassed.

>>46431906
>Only werewolves in a pack, not regular humans. can purchase Totem Merit dots (at least until The Pack offers some new options). However, human pack members still benefit from Totem advantages.
Every Werewolf gets 1 free Totem merit.
Wolf-blooded members of the pack can also get up to 1 totem merit.
Chargen has you make at least 1 wolf-blooded per person
A spirit starts with 3 Attribute points (in total).
A spirit needs 9 (in total) to be rank 2.
It takes a very small investment to bump a spirit from rank 1 to 2, providing you're playing with a group of different size.

>>46437119
>a group of different size.
decent size, rather
and if you don't want to spend much from your players, you can have the wolf-blooded do it

>>46437119
Regarding this, one of the players in my group is pissed that they have to spend xp for the totem to be powerful.

He also thinks that any spirit under rank 3 is utterly useless, and that pack totems should start from there, and go upwards.

>>46437007
While both of those atavism are powerful, to do those effects its cost satiety which a Beast can only have 10 of. To do autofire for "Dragonfire" you need low satiety so that means he's at 3 or less satiety to do that.

As for "Monster from the Deep", he needs to expend satiety every turn to do the grapple option. So if he at low satiety then at most he gots 3-2 turns of that grapple.

>>46437190
>Regarding this, one of the players in my group is pissed that they have to spend xp for the totem to be powerful.
Sounds like an idiot.
>He also thinks that any spirit under rank 3 is utterly useless, and that pack totems should start from there, and go upwards.
Idiocy confirmed.

If you want more free merits, recruit some NPC werewolves

>>46437190
A rank 3 totem is like a primal urge 6 werewolf

>>46437214
>Idiocy confirmed.
Basically.
To clarify: A Werewolf chronicle I had ideas for fell apart after he thought they shouldn't pay xp for something that was going to be weak in the first place, an that the first they should do was to find a rank 3+ spirit and convince that to be the pack totem. "So that it can actually be useful."

>>46437278
>he thought they shouldn't pay xp for something that was going to be weak in the first place
you don't, the first totem merits are free
if you pay for it, it becomes powerful

>>46424976
It's a common thing for Tzimisce to do with their necessary soil, for example.

>>46437278
Does he think werewolves should still do aggravated damage for being in Garou like in 1E?

>>46437327
Oh no. He hates Apocalypse.

>>46437319
Yeah. I don't exactly get his logic. The second part is, I think, that he doesn't think the PC's should pay for it, and that the spirit should grow strong on it's own.

>>46430262
Anything else? Anyone seen anything in new books?

>>46437373
To be fair, outside of character creation, it's entirely reasonable for the Totem to become stronger without the players paying merit dots for it. As long as it's through their actions that it gains power, though, it'll continue to serve as their totem.

EG, in a game I was in a while back, our totem was a spirit of battle and knowledge that we called the Skald. In one of the last sessions, we found a book that was amplifying the Shadow's effect on the Flesh, or something along those lines. I showed it to the Skald, and she became damn near ravenous for the book, telling me to bring it to her in the Shadow; I took a few pictures of it before I did, and when I gave it to her she just fucking absorbed it and went up a rank.

>>46437119

Note that wolf-blooded pack members do not automatically possess 1 dot in the Totem Merit like Uratha. Wolf-blooded must be purchase Totem like other merits, and arguably the Wolf-Blooded must first but the Pack Bond merit to even access the Totem merit (Werewolf 2e, pp. 83, 90-91, 305).

Despite the intention of some players, wolf-Blooded are not intended to just be a cheap and largely ignored avenues to boost a pack's totem.

Without a decent size pack of werewolves and/or a determined commitment to invest beginning merit dots in Totem, a pack with a Rank 1 Totem should be expected.

However, there's really nothing wrong with a Rank 1 Totem, they're still quite useful, and they will grow in power with the rest of the pack.

Everyone is forgetting the quickest, easiest, lowest XP cost, and generally most efficient way of boosting the pack's totem, with numerous additional advantages to the pack overall.

Ensure a Thyrsus mage is a human member of the pack.

>mage supremacy

>>46437624
>Despite the intention of some players, wolf-Blooded are not intended to just be a cheap and largely ignored avenues to boost a pack's totem.
Every person in the pack strengthens that pack. The stronger the pack, the stronger the totem

You don't know what you're talking about, again.

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>>46435506

>>46437716
That is a flimsy temporary means if power. That can be despelled by any mage.
Go back to the drawing board.

>>46430255

Think out how your chosen Paradigm interacts with your base character concept.

>>46437756
Thats because Werewolves are weak as fuck compared to Mages.

Wolves are the plebs of the Supernaturals.

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>>46437803

>>46437716
This is doable too, but you need Rank 5 to just add stuff.
>>46437756
>That is a flimsy temporary means if power. That can be despelled by any mage.
So ensure the rest of the pack kills other mages.

>>46437756
There's a Mage in the Pack, meaning any Mage conflict is solved with a Duel Arcane

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>>46437822
>Werewolves are able to kill Mages

>>46437742

Werewolves only receive one free Totem dot, regular humans cannot purchase Totem, and wolf-blooded receive no dots for free and must first acquire the Pack Bond merit as a prerequisite to buying Totem dots. (The page cites were in my earlier post)

If pack members do not invest dots in their pack Totem, it will not mechanically improve. Only adding new werewolves to the pack will strengthen the Totem, and without them spending XP on the Totem merit, the advancement will be very slow.

Nothing in life is free.

>>46437822
>>46437756
>>46437716

>tfw people take my obvious "mage supremacy" sarcasm post as legitimate werewolf game strategy

>>46437856
Considering werewolves are now immune to sympathetic magic, I think that's a fair assumption, yes.

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>>46437716
Lol...Werewolves need a Mage to make their pack totem stronger.

What a worthless group of supernaturals.

inb4
>b-b-but muh warform!!

>>46437856
>2e Werewolves having any other playable splat they can't kill
Have you seen the shit they can do now?

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>>46437919
>Considering werewolves are now immune to sympathetic magic

>>46437915
It works.

There's probably a lodge dedicated to capturing mages, forcing them to do it, then eating them.

>>46437822

The Spirit Arcana has more than ample means to buff a Totem before mastery (and provide numerous other advantages to a pack). By Spirit 5, however, the mage can certainly make the Totem a Grade A badass.

>>46437935
Or just buy a merit.

>>46437200
Yeah but this isn't strictly a power gaming white room, this is about player feel. Werewolves and Beasts is comparing a gun to a bomb. Beasts powers are so cataclysmic when they go off, they can easily steal the limelight of any scene they're a part of. This is one of the pitfalls of mixed splat games, but particularly mixed splats with Beast: any fight is going to be that player's time if they are in the right satiety, otherwise they twiddle their thumbs.

>>46437947
Feet of Mist. Immune to all detections except simply physical. Clash of Wills against all sympathetic, and similar attacks targeting them. The wolves have Rote Action on the Clash.

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>>46437958
>The Spirit Arcana has more than ample means to buff a Totem before mastery
Not really, it can only move things around up until 4. It's not a buff to grant 1 STR at the cost of 1 RES

>>46437956
Any names spring to mind? I'm thinking 'Lodge of the Broken God', but that might be too on the nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Vm86dD3n0

>>46437919
>Considering werewolves are now immune to sympathetic magic

Say what now???

Where the heck did you read that?

>>46437998
One hour duration, cost of 1 Essence, and instant action to activate => not reflexive, so unusable as a panic button defense.

Basically, you need to know beforehand the exact time someone will try to use sympathetic magic on you, and then keep it up 24/7 for 1essen/h. It can be a lifesaver, but don't overestimate it.

>>46437998
>Cost: 1 essence
>Duration: 1 hour

You may have forgotten, but non-Mages actually have to pay to use their powers, so they can't blast them 24/7 like Mages can. I'd hardly call that immunity.

>>46436236
shitposting when you don't know what you're talking about is the most immense power of them all

>>46437998

One facet of one gift that works for an hour and provides no insight into who and when someone might be trying to magically track or attack you, and provides a clash of wills, an area where mages often shine, hardly constitutes a general, ubiquitous "werewolf immunity to sympathetic magic."

>leave the white room

>>46438075
TBF, this is about sympathetic magic, which costs at least 1 mana by default.
Though a Mage sitting in a Hallow can get around that.

>>46438078
That's ironic considering we're just talking about mages being able to blast people long distance without any cost.

>>46437997
Fair enough. How about show casing the up sides of being a werewolf. Sacred Hunts, claiming territory, in general dealing with spirits. These are some of the things the Beast would have a hard tome stealing the scene from the werewolf.
For crossover games to really work you got to play to every splat strong point. Show why only they can do it.
After all that Beast or I think most beast would have a hard time dealing with spirits. Since Spirits can stay immaterial and avoid the Beasts attacks that way.

>>46437956
>werewolves eating mages

The Awakened, the other white meat.

Mmmm, that Mastigos tastes like chicken!

>>46438098
Well, it doesn't get around the cost, just that the mage can, with an Oblation ritual, get the Mana back.

>>46438098
But the Mage only has to cast the spell once and it can come from any arcana. Every Wolf in the pack needs to take this specific gift then have a permanent infusion of essence in order to keep it up indefinitely. Oh and they can never sleep otherwise the power will lapse.

>>46438137
I was referring to the 'every spell costs 1 mana less if cast within a Hallow' clause. Though that might be gone in 2e.
Sympathetic Magic is also always risking paradox, so depending on the Mage they might have to spend extra Mana to reduce paradox dice.

>>46438147
Yes, I know. I'm the guy first guy that pointed out the 1essence/hour cost, not the one who initially brought up the gift.

>>46437915
>>46437716

I now really regret derailing the discussion with my Thyrsus in a werewolf pack joke,

However, for you true mage supremacy enthusiasts, DaveB actually commented on just how powerful any mage, no less a Thyrsus, would make a werewolf pack

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46168782/#46186848

>Dark Eras Companion has two more Mummy settings
>Necropolis: Rio will come out someday
>then nothing new for Mummy until 2e, which will be six games from now (and likely at least two or three years)

I am filled with despair.

>>46438278
Yeah. This board has a really strange relationship with mages.

>>46438278
No its cool cause fact of the matter is a Mage would greatly help a werewolf pack. And that mage would never have to worry about threats to his life again. he's apart of the pack now, attack one member all the others got his back.

>>46438299
Don't worry, you'll still get mummy in the crossover blurbs in other splats' books.
Like the Seattle book, with its mummy destryong field.
Or the Constantinopel blurb about there being only Shaunkhsen there.

And more like that.

Is it just me, or do the Purified seem to have more in common with the Mummies of the CWOD, thematically, than spirits in general?

>>46438299
>Dark Eras Companion has two more Mummy settings
>then nothing new for Mummy until 2e, which will be six games from now (and likely at least two or three years)

I believe Dave mentioned there will be a some Mummy rules to update the gameline for 2e in the Mutapa Mummy/Mage crossover era.

Hopefully, this will generate interest in Mummy generally, and for a more detailed 2e update book specifically.

I also believe that the Cleopatra era will finally include rules for mortal Sekhem sorcerers!!!

>>46438495
Thematically they aren't very close to spirits, that is true. They are, however, very close when one look at it from a mechanical standpoint.

>>46438345
>mage in a werewolf pack

Mage with a guard dog, errr...., proud and loyal Uratha bodyguard.

>>46438513
Mortal sorcerers have to be shit. It's like a WoD rule.

>>46438372
>Sothis Ascends has Constantinople stuffed to the gills with Arisen
>Dark Eras has Istanbul completely empty of them

What the fuck happened?

>>46438513

Was that 2e update confirmed? I've heard nothing about that. Sekhem sorcerers, more stuff for Cults, and fuel for my eternal Roman boner are all great, though.

>>46437919
>>46437947
>>46437998
There's also the fact that if you have a sympathetic connection to work with in the first place to a werewolf, that werewolf now has a connection to YOU, and you're not the splat whose entire power suite is designed to hunt down and kill things that might fuck with you.

>>46438566
Death, their extremely limited set of numina and the way they regain essence. Beyond that, far, far away from them mechanically.

>>46438112
Yeah, and that's basically what you have to do with them. The problem there obviously is including other players in pack/hunt shenanigans and not turning every complication into 'it was spirits'.

Mixed splat games are hard, harder if you let the group split things so many directions like the original anon did.

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Depressed that She-Ka-Gau from the Chicago sourcebook didn't get a mention for Mummy.

>>46438615
They're sort of proto-Sin Eaters too

>>46438571
Can love bloom?

>>46438593
>Was Mummy 2e update confirmed?

I believe Dave mentioned there will be some brief rules to allow 2e play. It will not be anything close to a real conversion guide or edition update.

It will not be much, but far better than nothing.

>>46438613
Werewolves don't really need that. "That bloody mage who is gunning for us" is a completely valid choice for a Sacred Hunt.
Add a Cahalith with Glory 3, and they can find out where the target is.
Bam. Hunt is on.

>>46438659
Eh. I never saw it, aside from the return from death. I make the mummy comparison because many of the same themes of loss, the march of time, etc. About the only thing that's missing is the battle that was basically lost before they began. And even that is almost guaranteed with the power differentials if the Purified goes picking fights.

>>46438692
>Bam. Hunt is on.

BAM! Now you're in a volcano, or 1753, or you're made of dicks

>>46438692
Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. In order to have a sympathetic connection to a werewolf, you must be on their radar.

Even magically-created sympathetic connections produce the connection they imply now, in 2e. So if you give yourself an Intimate Sympathetic Connection to a pack of werewolves in order to fuck them with sympathetic connection? You're now on the top of THEIR priority list too.

>>46438692
>>46438613

It's really not that hard for werewolves to track mage adversaries (or allies) or anyone else. That's one of their primary areas of expertise Attempting to use a reverse sympathetic connection created by supernal magic, even if possible, seems needlessly complex and unnecessary.

Finding the mages will almost never be the problem. Doing so without them knowing and thoroughly preparing to adequately meet such a threat is another issue entirely

Honestly here. How much XP lead does a pack of werewolves need to be a credible threat to a Mage?

>>46438692

Not to mention that The Sundered World references a Firstborn who hunts mages, Eater of Names.

I'm making a Lodge for her ASAP.

>>46438797
A pack of werewolves versus a single equivalent xp mage? 0.

>>46438791
I didn't mean literally using magical sympathy, I meant "in order to have a connection at all, they must have encountered you". Cranking that up to get rid of the -8 penalty or whatever so you can actually CAST literally makes you more important to that pack, and you're almost definitely under the "threat" category.

>>46438801
Are you sure that isn't just an old name for Death-Wolf?

>>46438814
This. But pack vs Cabal, no amount of extra XP will be enough

>>46438824
> In the time before time, Kamduis-Ur was called Kig-Ur, Seeking Wolf, for she was ever searching for more knowledge.

>>46438848
Ah, ok. So in a one-on-one mage/werewolf fight, the mage wins?

>>46438848
Both right out of chargen? Werewolf slaughters

>>46438730
>1753
What's so bad about 1753?

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>>46438824

Yes, I'm sure.

>>46438860
Yeah, but that's a tale that's told now. Considering that none of the firstborn mentioned back pre-sundering had the names we know now, I'm more inclined to believe that they have changed.

>>46438873

No, the werewolf handily kills the shit out of a single mage.

Mages need to have the exact tool they need for a given situation; if the situation moves out of their arcana, they're fucked.

A cabal of mages that covers each other's weaknesses results in a geometric increase in power that the slightly less geometric increase in power gained from a pack doesn't quite cover.

>>46438911
>Considering that none of the firstborn mentioned back pre-sundering had the names we know now, I'm more inclined to believe that they have changed.
Yes they did. They're even mentioned there. >>46438902

>>46438797
>How much XP lead does a pack of werewolves need to be a credible threat to a Mage?

Until the highest levels (Arcana mastery in 2e seems friggin' scary), an individual werewolf should always be a threat to an individual mage. Unlike the white room discussions, the "realistic" builds of the individual characters will determine relative combat and other proficiencies.

However, like werewolf packs, mages form cabals for mutual protection. Given the versatility of the Arcana, groups of mages are really much more than the sum of the parts. Under *most* circumstances, a mage pack of an equal number of characters and experience will likely be at a small disadvantage, but smart and creative planning and use of the environment and other factors should be able to level the playing field. As always, it's always about role-playing and what's good for your chronicle.

>>46438928
Ah. So, at what amount does mages out-power werewolves?

>>46438928
Only if they can reach the Mage

>>46438928
>the slightly less geometric increase in power gained from a pack doesn't quite cover.
>one wolf death rages
>all wolves death rage
>all heal all lethal+bashing every round
>get many gifts for free
>weapon bonuses of at least 2
>can inflict aggravated with their +2 teeth without a grapple
that's not counting merits and specifying gifts (most of which won't help in combat but some of which will dominate in it)

>>46438954

Once a mage achieves mastery in any Arcana (which now requires Gnosis 5), hardly an impossible feat, their threat level goes up to Defcon 1.

Which CofD gameline is most compatible with a vaporwave aesthetic?

Can a mage skilled in Mind shape his Oneiros to their liking?

>>46438954
There is not set point. Its a case by case situation by every example mage and werewolf. Get you dnd wizard supremacy logic out of here.

>>46439045
Sorry! I'm trying to learn! I'm mostly a Vampire player.

>>46438954
Almost any arcanum at 5 is a curbstomp. Some at 3, so at character creation, could make it a win for the mage.

>>46438993
>Space removes you from the Danger Zone
>Matter creates a wall of silver around you
>Forces sends them flying into the air
>Spirit shunts you all out of reach

etc. etc.

You can give Werewolves all the deadly teeth you want, but in the end it's still just Fighter vs. Wizard

>>46439092
none of that is doable out of chargen

>>46439116
Unless you can show me a book with the 2e disciplines in, yes it is.

>>46439092
>>Matter creates a wall of silver around you
Worth noting that this wouldn't necessarily stop them. Werewolves can rip into silver as easy as they rip into other metals. My werewolf has literally torn cars in two on multiple occasions.

Plus some of them can jump really high, or burrow at high speeds.

>>46439092
Where did you get "at chargen" from?
The qualifier was "as a Cabal", not "at Chargen".