Pathfinder General /pfg/

Where do you get your art for vampires?

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First for shining beacon of Good and Law is the best character archetype.

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Is Equipment Trick (Sunrod) still the only early entry method into Evangelist left?

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>>46349841
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?utf8=&tags=vampire+rating%3Asafe

>>46349841
I just look up "pile of ash" on google

Friendly reminder that Silver Dragons polymorphed as respectable young ladies with mocking laughs are the greatest addition to any campaign!

>>46349853
If equipment trick work... shouldn't heighten spell also work?

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>>46349909
INCORRECT.

>>46349909
Your fetish is not my fetish.

>>46349958
But at least it's not vore!

>>46349978
B-but my fetish is vore.

>>46349986
Your fetishes confuse and frighten me.

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Any image or pdf leaks of Inner Seas Faiths yet? I'm particularly interested in pages about Sivanah.

>>46349909
Have you been reading R A Salvatore again?

>>46350011
>pages about Sivanah
>implying any of them will be true

>>46349990
It's like hugging someone tight! But inside out.

>>46349958

Who said anything about me getting aroused? I just find them an amusing archetype to add for an adventure.

Why isn't there "Protection from Neutral" spell? Is there a way to prevent dominate/mind-control from neutral caster?

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>>46350299
See, this is why I hate neutrals.

>>46350299
Are you sure that mage is True Neutral if they're using mind control?

>>46350444
I don't see an "Evil" descriptor on the spell, buddy-o.

>>46350444
I mean, the goddess of erasing all your memories and conscripting you into extraplanar armies after you die is Top TN, so...

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What would be a fitting code for an order of paladins based around the Pact Servant trait to worship Asmodeus as a LN woman called the "Wily Linguist"?

>>46350507
Not the "Cunning Linguist"?

>>46350507
Their first duty is to make dank meme puns out of the names of all great evils. Tarbuttphon. Lezmufftu. Poonlords of Hassle-on.

>>46350528
Nope, Paizo actually avoided hamfisting a lesbian joke for once.

>>46350665
Anon, the fact that Crystal used the thesaurus function in her word processor doesn't make it any less obvious or hamfisted.

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>>46350577
Could be amusing. Pretty sure I'd annoy the proper Asmodean arcanist in the party though.

Then again... Chelaxian noblewoman punishing Chosen One kitsune boy for heresy...

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>>46349852
No one is innocent, anon. Everyone fumbles. Everyone falls. Everyone fails.

Evil only has to win once. Why do you even bother?

>>46350741
Of course everyone falls, that's why you have to stand back up!

>>46350684
True, she just can't help hamfisting her lesbians.

>>46350752
I've been away for a while, what did she do this time?

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>>46350735
>that last line

Is there something you'd like to confess?

>>46350750
And by then they've already trampled you or moved past you.

It matters not if a wall is rebuilt once the enemy already holds the city.

>>46350850
Wrote a LN feminist cult that worships Asmodeus as a woman called the Wily Linguist.

>>46350945
Trumpets

>>46350960
When the wall falls and evil is inside the gate you don't just roll over and accept it, you fight! You fight evil where ever it's at, within or without!

>>46351031
When the wall falls and the enemy has breached the gate, /you have already lost/. To continue fighting such a battle is naive at best and blind recalcitrance at worst.

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>>46350011
Why use small image?

>>46350752
Don't worry Anon I got your pun!

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>>46351130

>>46351105
Or you rig up the houses to collapse ontop of them as you do a fighting retreat. Leave nothing for evil to profit from.

>>46351105
Says you. You wouldn't imagine how many battles have been won by a feint from the back gates pinning an army half inside the walls.

Walls are a pretty good barrier to use to cut the enemy army into two manageable pieces - hit the breach from both sides and cut off half the army, and slaughter the half inside your walls, then open the gates down the way and lead a sally out holding the head of the pompous enemy commander who got pinned down in narrow streets by a bunch of commoners with longspears.

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>>46351209
From whence does this hopeless determination spring, anon?

Why can't you realize your limits?

Are you a shounen protagonist?

>>46351209

There is nowhere TO retreat, anon.

Blindly trying to kill as many as you can before dying solved literally nothing.

>>46351490
It helps the next ones to take up the fight.

>>46351545
Just so that the next ones also die? How are you better than evil?

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>>46351490
Then you obviously didn't kill enough.
If you'd been better at it, it would've solved significantly more.

I won't pretend that killing more fixes everything: It doesn't. Sometimes you need to heal someone, and you won't heal more whether you kill 6 guys or just 1 with that silver crane maneuver. Sometimes you need to plant a house, or build a tree, and there's a very limited use to killing more people in those circumstances if any.

But when the problem is enemies *PAST* the gate, if you'd been able to kill the right amount, the problem WOULD have then been solved.

I was laying in bed last night and could not for the life of me remember if this was a thing or if it was just a random shitpost and it is going to bother me unless I ask. It's impossible to use claws as anything but "Natural Weapons", correct? You can't grab TWF feats and act as though you were using two "normal" weapons, taking standard iteratives instead of just the two full BAB attacks?

>>46351679
With Feral Combat Training you could use one of your natural weapons with flurry of blows which is practically twf.

>>46351643
WATER THE TREE WITH THEIR BLOOD

>>46351471
>>46351490
>>46351637
Because if you make them bleed for every inch with their own blood it will wear them down. They are not unending in numbers, if you take with you more then you number and leave nothing for them to use they may have victory but at a cost greater then the reward of it.

>>46352070
But what's the point if they still win and you lose even more?

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>>46351955
By stopping evil before it begins the world only becomes a better place! Nothing is more good than preventing future evils!

>>46352089
You lose it all either way. A conquering force is generally not going to leave valuables or enemy soldiers in their wake. Especially not ones ment to be the epitome of evil.

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>>46352070
>Because if you make them bleed for every inch with their own blood it will wear them down. They are not unending in numbers, if you take with you more then you number and leave nothing for them to use they may have victory but at a cost greater then the reward of it.

Look how that worked out for Germany against Russia during World War I.

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>>46352179
That worked pretty swell for Russia, didn't it?

>>46351679
I think catfolk get a weapon that attaches to their claws and kind of turns them into manufactured weapons.

Yeah, claw blades-

These subtle blades can only be used by catfolk with the cat's claws racial trait. Bought in a set of five, they fit over the wearer's claws on one hand. The blades grant the wearer a +1 enhancement bonus on claw attack rolls with that hand and change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon. Catfolk with the cat's claws racial trait are proficient with this weapon. The claw blades can be enhanced like a masterwork weapon for the normal costs. The listed cost of the item is for one set of five claws for one hand.

>>46352197
Also worked pretty well for Germany, it made Russia take significantly longer to recover and Russia got significantly less out of victory. Germany held out long enough for it to get divided in half so the whole nation didn't become like the other former Soviet Republics

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>>46352107
Agreed.

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>>46352239
So what you're saying is that standing up against evil is sure to work! Wahaha.

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>>46349909

Eeeh? You actually want a woman to boss you around? What a fool!

O~hohohohohoho!

IMO the best first level build is a human fighter 1:
Feats: Power attack, combat reflexes, toughness.

Using a reach weapon. doesn't matter too much which one, and some decent armor. Grab a small bow too, or a sling if money is tight.

This build has no growth potential, but is surprisingly durable and deadly for first level.

Hey /pfg I have a question for you: What is your favourite archetype, item, and feat from UI?

Mine are:
Archetype:Battle Scion(Skald)
Feat: Measure Foe(though I hate the prereq perusual)
Item: Heavy Wrist Launcher(Combo with grapple bolt, flight grapnel, retracting rope, and lighter=Wrist Grappling Hook ability once every 2 hours)

>>46352434
Still gotta be that magical child. I don't care if it's subpar!

>>46352292
>that image
Why
>Whys not a question we ask around here, boy.

>>46352486
I wanted to post the image because it's adorable!

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>>46352107
>>46352260
Now you're getting it, mortals! Purge souls BEFORE they get a chance to sin!

Would you make a contract with a qlippoth to become a magical girl? They're cute! And all they ask is that you don't sin and don't have babies, which is basically just saying you should stay pure!

Speaking of the chosen one, is there any way to increase an improved familiar's strength? A Silvanshee seems pretty cool, but the whole 3 STR (or a whole whopping 11 for a minute once per day) makes me wonder if there's any way to actually get much use out if its ability to pounce.

>>46352524
So we are restarting the Cathars? Let me go find a pope hat.

>>46352575
Items and buffs? You could potentially get it up +10 points in a stat with items, though that would cost like 160k gold, so not really worth it.

>>46352345
Tohsaka pleases old DMs for exp

>>46352612
+11, but yea, Not worth it.

Can improved familiars take familiar archetypes?

What the fuck is with this "slow fading image" captcha? I end up having to click on the same fucking image six times because it keeps being replaced with numbers/water/whatever, and the slow fade is fucking annoying.

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>>46352737
NOT
CANON

>Friendly reminder that pic related is NEUTRAL EVIL

>>46352756
Ah, right, I said +10 because the modifiers are based off of even numbers, but if it starts at an odd then the extra inherent is still useful.

I don't think improved familiars can, because they lose the ability to speak to members of their base species, right?

Also those captchas are the worst, they never go through no matter how many times.It took me like a minute to actually post once, because I had to go through three separate fading captchas.

>>46352217
I wonder what the stats of a Claw glove like this would be

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>>46352804
Here, let me post a 1)good, 2) canon NE caster

>>46352879
Is it ever explained why she has elf ears?

Any way for a PC to get (Ex) Regeneration?

>>46352894
3.5 with troll-blooded.

>>46352894
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/devilbound-creature

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>>46352890

The Japanese associate small pointed ears with demons, this is why fantasy Elves have *very* long pointed ears, to show they're not demons.

Here's another pair of demon ears on a filthy crow.

>>46352924
Huh

>>46352930

In Japanese mythology, short pointed ears were characteristic of Youkai.

When the West started shipping fantasy culture to the East, they noticed the Elves had short pointed ears and realized they couldn't let them *keep* those short pointed ears, otherwise people might confuse them with Youkai. Therefore, Elves got huge ears.

Reason >>46352879 has short pointed ears is because she's a monster, not an Elf, and monsters in Japanese mythology have short pointed ears.

>>46352808
>>46352756
i hear magical child can get away with archetypes on improved familiars, but only because their familiars remain the same base familiar by technicality, they just transform into something on the improved familiar list.

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Anons of /pfg/ I give you the spell Matchmaker.

>>46353635
Fuckin' NTR.

>>46353635
>trying to NTR The lesbian
What a dick

>>46353680
>>46353702
Is it NTR if you make the girl fuck someone else in front of her lesbian lover? Mesmerist gnome is tricky like that.

>>46352996
>In Japanese mythology, short pointed ears were characteristic of Youkai. When the West started shipping fantasy culture to the East, they noticed the Elves had short pointed ears and realized they couldn't let them *keep* those short pointed ears, otherwise people might confuse them with Youkai. Therefore, Elves got huge ears.
Nah, they just modelled things on Warhammer elves, who've always had ears that big so you could see them on the miniatures.

>>46353781
That's the best kind of NTR.
Especially when it's the lesbian lover's brother.

Keep the genes in the family for when the lesbian couple wants some kids and all.

>>46353836
No NTR is best NTR.

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>>46353635
>Anons of /pfg/ I give you the spell Matchmaker.

GIVE ME MORE.

I NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SPELL DOES.

Alright /pfg/, what are the best and worst AP? I would like to know as my DM is asking for suggestions.

>>46353635

Now the martials have all the more reason to shore up their shitty-ass will saves.

Used to be that Unnatural Lust was the only thing you had to worry about making things awkward in the party forever after.

>>46353895
MATCHMAKER
School enchantment (charm) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 2,
mesmerist 2, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, M (a rose petal)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target two living creatures
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw Will partial, see text; Spell Resistance yes
You entice the target creatures to become romantically
interested in one another. Each creature saves and applies
spell resistance separately. Both must be affected for the spell
to have an effect. If either creatures has a prior unfriendly or
hostile attitude toward the other, it receives a +4 bonus on its
saving throw.
This spell doesn’t override the targets’ normal sexual
preferences or other limitations. If romantic feelings are
incompatible for this reason, the creature instead feels an
intimate platonic bond with the other.

>>46353928
>This spell doesn’t override the targets’ normal sexual
>preferences or other limitations. If romantic feelings are
>incompatible for this reason, the creature instead feels an
>intimate platonic bond with the other.

MERISIEL CONFIRMED FOR LIKING PENIS.

>>46353928
Does that mean the rogue plays for both teams then?

>>46353861
I'm also against most of it. Most of the time no NTR is best NTR indeed...

But there's something about lesbians learning to love the cock...

>>46353949

Yeah, they never made any bones about Meri being bisexual. Kyra is the one who's exclusively lesbian. I seem to recall Merisiel and Valeros were flirting a bit before Kyra joined the party.

...I think they said Valeros is bisexual as well, he just strongly prefers girls.

>>46353702
A dick WOULD be what's required there

>>46353949
>>46353963
Of course she does: she's the original JJ-waifu, and she's only bi at all because he finds lesbians hot and wants to self-insert as her occasionally.

>>46353928
And yet another spell that will be uncomfortable as fuck to use when playing pathfinder with adults. This is the reason that people think we are weird.

>>46353949
>>46353964
I think she is BI? i don't know and really don't care honestly.

>>46353974
>...I think they said Valeros is bisexual as well, he just strongly prefers girls.

Isn't Alain the only one that's confirmed heterosexual? His backstory is essentially "I impregnated one too many courtiers and forced them to the nunnery."

Wait a second, why *does* Golarion have nunneries and "traditional" ways to dispose of pregnant unmarried women? The whole nunnery thing is historically accurate, I thought Paizo wanted their world to be more inclusive and modern.

>>46354022
>Isn't Alain the only one that's confirmed heterosexual? His backstory is essentially "I impregnated one too many courtiers and forced them to the nunnery."

I could've sworn Seoni is "pretty much" heterosexual and Feiya was confirmed straight, too.

Although I don't know how people confirmed Feiya was straight.

>>46353996
If she is his self-insert, why is her character a garbage bin of garbage feats and horrible skill choices

>>46354022

Regional variance, I assume, or inconsistent worldbuilding between multiple writers.

I do find it funny that Alain, despite being neutral, is one of the biggest dicks among the iconics.

>>46354053
See the person self inserting for that answer.

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Alain confirmed pigsexual.

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>>46353903
Do people honestly enjoy the paizo APs? My experience with them has been terrible. The DM is always a railroader and the players are always powergamers

>>46353792
>>46352996
>>46352890
That's also part of the reason why JRPG characters are stereotyped to have humongous weapons; the models that were sold at the time have to have gigantic (in comparison to the person) weapons wielded or else you wouldn't be able to really tell what they were carrying with any detail. This was then extended outward, so that characters ended up swinging around sword and axes that have no right to be able to be held, let alone used.

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>>46354087

>>46354093
>I have a shitty group does that make the aps shit?
No but they are poorly designed and poorly balanced.

Lets say we're going for a low level campaign, Do I lose much from going warpriest instead of cleric?

Not even going to bother with a reach weapon and just codzilla it up with a greatsword.

>>46354073
>I do find it funny that Alain, despite being neutral, is one of the biggest dicks among the iconics.

He's a haughty nobleman that was never told "no" in his life, and became an adventurer not for any reason other than "I'll be able to fuck even *more* chicks this way, awesome!"

>>46354053
None of the Devs know how to actually play their game

>>46352524
Yeah! Use their power to destroy those wicked Knights of the Scarlet Woman!

>>46354166
Basically nothing. Until level 10+ I consider the warpreist to be a straight upgrade to the default cleric.

>>46354145
*had a shitty group. Left it several months ago and haven't looked back. I don't understand why you'd take an AP over superior homebrew campaigns though

>>46353903

BEST (in order)
>Curse of the Crimson Throne
>Jade Regent
>Reign of Winter

WORST (in order)
>Council of Thieves
>Shattered Star
>Serpent's Skull

VOTED MOST BIPOLAR
>Wrath of the Righteous, which oscillates between "oh god I hate it" to "oh god I love it" depending on DM.

>>46354048
Seoni hasn't been seen or heard being with someone, per se, but she's admired both the Paladin and Fighter's body before. Ezren is SOMEWHERE (there's an oft-repeated rumor that he's gay, but no one's ever been able to confirm it), and Feiya is terrified of relationships because she was raised by hags. The alchemist is straight but had a serial-killer tinge to it. Valeros hasn't flirted with a man "on-camera", but also knows when to keep it in his pants (for instance, he has flirted with EVERY FEMALE ICONIC at some point, but the only one that he continuously interacts with is Seoni, whom he feels is more of a comrade than a conquest). Alain is the only absolutely-positively confirmed heterosexual iconic.

>>46354222
What's so bad about Shattered Star?

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I present to you the single greatest piece of art from Ultimate Intrigue, the only artwork you'll ever need from that book.

>He was born and raised to rule
>No one has ever been this cool
>In a thousand years of aristocracy
>An enigma and a mystery
>In Mesogolarion history
>The quintessence of perfection that is he

WHAT'S HIS NAME?

>>46354022
Nunneries were famous in quebec for pregnancy. Well, never officially of course.

But nuns, until they got old, every couple of years would gain weight, go on a "mission" or a "retreat", and return with some poor innocent orphan that they'd found or had handed to them on the way back.

Most of the orphanages were full of the *PRIEST'S* children. They used to sleep in the nunnery, or have "attendents" come help them overnight in their parish house.

>>46354253
He looks stupid. It looks like his legs are ridiculously long.

>>46354253

KING THEAN, THE FIRST OF HIS NAME.

>>46354253
KUZCOOOOOoh wait what were we talking about again?

>>46354199
I never played a martial before, will I be better suited going low dex with a full plate or more with a breastplate?

I kind of prefer the full plate right now since it leaves me with more stats to spread out but really, I have no idea what I'm doing.

>>46354261

At least Pathfinder clerics aren't obligated to be celibate.

Less of that nonsense of the suspiciously large number of priests looking after their poor, fatherless "nephews."

>>46354245
Too much railroading, too much dungeon crawl, and they pushed the in-setting Pathfinder Society way too hard when it's an utter trash heap of an organization for 'real' non-PFS PCs who actually get important things done.

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>>46354261

People don't like to discuss just how much wanton fucking there was going on back in the day, it was so bad a natural herbal contraceptive was harvested to extinction in Europe and has now only survived in texts.

Nunneries and whorehouses were always the final resting place of women who got knocked up.

>>46354253
Francis

>>46354296
Full plate is super great for low levels, but breastplate is probably fine too. What level are you starting at? What do you want your build to look like?

>>46354240
>and Feiya is terrified of relationships because she was raised by hags

Her character bio implies she's *been* in relationships, though. She's awkward and weird around people but it's not said this means people are never interested in being with her.

>>46354307
>when it's an utter trash heap of an organization
Anyone have that collage of their failures?

>>46354296
i don't see the point of using dex if you don't plan to use dex-based weapons and you can get heavy armor.

at level 2 you will afford your perfect complete armor and you will be fine for ages without wasting points into dex.( and btw full plate still allows a +1 to dex; 12 dex is great).

>>46354467
Sometimes 12 dex is super cheap point buy wise, gives you a +1 initiative, and even full plate will let you use that to add to your AC.

Going first is very important.

>>46354342
We're going to start at level 5, 20pt buy. I'm going with 17+2+1 str, 14 dex 14 con 7 int 14 wis and 7 cha. Going to be pretty straightforward and worship Gorum and take Destruction and war as my domains. As for feats I'm thinking Combat reflexes, Improved initiative, Cleave, Power attack and Iron will.

At level 6 I'm split between furious focus or weapon versatility.

One of the players in the group had an order of the beast cavalier that was basically a hippy So every time we would encounter a wild animal she would try to calm it down while the thing was attacking us. I'd wait until things were obviously not going to work out and then just shoot the animal to kingdom come and back in a hail of arrows to which then she (the character) would be angry with my character for interfering. So tonight I decided to wait because I didn't want to get yelled at again and the one time I don't interfere is the time she is brutally eviscerated. The moral of the story is... You're character is likely to die in a very ironic way if you have a strict code.

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So hey, druids and shamans and Magaambyans REEEE can conjure up fey like planar ally now!

What are you gonna call up first, /pfg/? Don't get lewd now, fey are quick to recognize lewdness.

>>46354524
First: be human. The human favored class ability is extra feats, which means you will have 4 fewer feats than a fighter at level 20.

With all those feats, you can do a lot. Mithril breastplate is nice to have, and doesn't kill your speed, so the high dex will be nice.

I recommend a reach weapon, because they give me a hard-on. You might not need combat reflexes, but you have tons of feats so whatever. Crafting might be a serious consideration.

>weapon versatility
I find it not too usefull myself. some DR can be a bitch but often its the wrong material or whatever, and not the wrong damage type.

You also have enough feats to be really good at archery if you want. dry-fucking-the-monster-manual good at archery. But it seems like you want to go for a melee build and that is fine.

>>46354624
Fey have the biggest CR per HD ratio of anything, so this will be really powerful.

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>>46354624

>Guy kissing girl is an evil mind-control spell
>Guy kissing pig is funny
>Girl enticing girl is seen as cute

Let me guess, there isn't a single instance of a guy or girl showing affection for one another in this book.

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>>46354624
>you will never sit on a rock and lick your paws while watching Lini and purple!Lini rut in the dirt like un-awakened animals
Why live?

>>46354679

There is, as I recall, a shot of the inquisitor lady giving Valeros a smooch.

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>>46354679
>>46354701

I misremembered, but let's say it doesn't look like smooching is off the table.

>>46354524
i don't think having multiple attack of opportunity each turn is worth much unless one of your party's members is making a build that is all about generating attacks of opportunity for his teammates.
you are usually more than happy with one.

if you play someone who is not full BAB ( you are making a cleric from what i've understood) you won't even have the best damage potential or a bigì chance of finding yourself in the middle of 2 enemies that will generate attack of opportunity.

i think furious focus is really nice at low-intermediate levels, especially for not full BAB character that don't want to see their damage and hit chance being low.

>>46354683
>you will never sit in behind your computer screen as you pleasure yourself to Lini and Purple Lini being rutted by un-awakened animals.
Why even live?

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>>46354701
>>46354719

>Guys kissing girls or girls kissing guys is only acceptable when it's interracial or the guy is particularly androgynous

>>46354738

I feel like you're looking for something to be offended by here.

>>46354738
At this point you are just looking for reasons to be upset.

>>46354719
>Laughingwhores.jpg

>>46354719
ValerosXImrijka is my ship

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>>46354325
They weren't doing much "resting" if you and >>46354261 are to be believed!

If ya know what I mean

can someone tell me if this new vigilante class is worth over a bard or a inquisitor? because the class resembles to me this two

>>46354828
>bard
Its shit.
>Inquisitor
Its good
>Vigilante
So many ways to build it I don't even know.

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>>46354761
>>46354763

Isn't that why we all come to Pathfinder General? To be offended by the latest abortion to come out of Paizo's fetid womb?

>>46354848

Why do you dislike bards, man? Bards are great.

>>46354848
Still incompetent I see.

>>46354865
He can't figure out how to build them, due to the concept of teamwork being a foreign one to him.

>>46354865
Because he can't comprehend anything other than ranged damage being non-shit.

>>46354848
BP, just because you can't build a Bard for shit doesn't make it bad. Especially since its not really that different than an Inquisitor, except Bard performances are much more useful than Judgements

>>46354892

What about bardchers?

>>46354828
With archetypes, yes. Cabalist, Magical Child, Psychometrist, Warlock, and Zealot could all hang with bard and inquisitor without trouble.

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>>46354848
>bards
>shit

Bards are so powerful they can even cast and fight at the same time, a magician bard can destroy casters and a dirge bard is fucking badass

>>46354892
Man, I can't comprehend anything other than ranged damage being non-shit and even I can make a decent bard.

Doubly so for a Rubato.

Bards are fucking great, and can do decent ranged damage while being great as well!

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>>46354922

MAGICAL CHILD IS SHIT.

SHIIIIIIIT.

>>46354828
Not really, unless you either want an archetype or EXPLICITLY want to play as batman

>>46354865
>bards are great
See...Everyone says this, and I previously though it too. Then I tried to build one and it just isn't actually GOOD at anything it tries to do.

Giving your entire team a +1 at level 5, or a +2 at level 5 is incredibly unimpressive, especially when its most of what your character can do. That a fucking bless spell. The spell list is ok, but not very impressive and they don't have the class abilities to actually do anything well.

Take for example the suggestion ability. Spent two turns, and if someone makes two failed saves you can cast suggestion on them. This is supposed to be good?

inb4 everyone saying "bard is great u a shit" without actually posting any builds that are not a shit that I have been asking for for literally months.

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>>46354022
>>46354048
>>46354005
>>46353974

>>46354947
I agree that it's the worst of the caster/pseudo-caster vigilantes, but it's still T3.

>>46354952
well archetypes looks great over the pure class, specially warlock and zealot, it can be competent... Tier 3-4 at least

>>46354970
>Giving your entire team a +1 at level 5, or a +2 at level 5
should be:
Giving your entire team a +1 at level 5, or a +2 at level 10

>>46354892
Do i need to post my barbarian build?

>>46354903
It doesn't have anything that makes it better at archery than any other 3/4th BAB class. If you spend all your feats on it you might be ok at it, but an inquisitor or hunter or whatever will just be better.

>>46354970

Bless doesn't buff damage. Inspire courage does, and stacks with the barbarian's Rage, Good Hope, and a variety of other very useful buff spells.

Countersong and Distraction are both fairly useful tools for saving the bacon of your weak-willed companions.

The bard is the best knowledge monkey in the game without trying and does skillmonkey better than rogues much of the time, on top of having a high-utility spell list that enables them to heal, support the party, and control the battlefield with their illusions and enchantments.

They also aren't useless with weapons, unlike full casters. A bard can do pretty well for himself with a dex rapier or shortbow build, particularly if he can arcane strike regularly.

>>46354985

How are the orientations determined on that chart?

Alahazra and Seoni are listed as straight but it's never shown that they're only interested in the penis, same with Feiya.

>>46354828
Prematurely:

Vigilante (Stalker) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Avenger) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Brute) is probably lower end of Tier 4
Vigilante (Magical Child) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Cabalist) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Zealot) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Warlock) is low Tier 3 to mid Tier 3
Vigilante (Mounted Fury) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Psychometrist) is mid Tier 4 to high Tier 4
Vigilante (Wildsoul) is Tier 4
Vigilante (Gunmaster) is low Tier 4, maybe Tier 5

>>46355127
Comics, Paizo employee posts and backstories iirc. Didn't make the chart.

>>46355127

It can be a bit tricky, now that I think about it.

I mean, a character can be in a committed relationship with the opposite sex and still be bisexual, so it can be difficult determining exactly what someone's orientation is if they don't come out and say it themselves.

>>46352756
>>46352808

The slow-fading image captcha require you to keep clicking valid images until no more show up.

>>46354970
>inspire courage is most of what a bard can do

You DO realize that maintaining performance is a free action and bards also get medium BAB and spells, right?

>>46355145
kek. After occult adventures i expect a little more of a dual identity class but it seems like a rogue with over choices

>>46354970
>>46355018
>without actually posting any builds
The problem is we don't respect you enough because you're a raging assfaggot. Add in the ability mix both your party buffs continuously with either combat or spells, a strong spell list, and versitile performance and Bardic Knowledge makes him the go-to guy for skill checks

Also it's a +2 at 5, not a +1. Actually read the class you retard.

Honestly, I cannot see how you can think Inquisitor is better than Bard when Bard has better skill versatility, and Perform is better than Judgements since its based on duration rather than encounter (the latter being often so short that you usually only end up using Judgement for about 3 rounds until you get more daily uses), plus unlike Judgment you can start off at level 1 with a bonus to BOTH hit and damage and saves. And that's only Inspire Courage. Plus you can even mix around Perform with neat Masterpieces, and Spells like Chord of Shards (which is pretty great for being a lvl 1 spell)
And when you're out of perform, you probably still have a good enough Dex for archery, or you can use combat spells like Bladed Dash.

Seriously, I find it impossible how you think Inquisitor is better than Bard

>inb4 post build
Sorry faggot, can't. I'm on mobile

>>46355225
What do you mean 'a little more'?

>>46355145
>Vigilante (Gunmaster) is low Tier 4, maybe Tier 5
Tier 5 you mean, only tier 5

>>46355096
>Bless doesn't buff damage. Inspire courage does, and stacks with the barbarian's Rage, Good Hope, and a variety of other very useful buff spells.
Sure, and it is a +1. Or a +2 at level 10. that is incredibly neglegable compared to monster HP and probably wont even change the number of actions it takes to kill anything.

>Countersong and Distraction are both fairly useful tools for saving the bacon of your weak-willed companions.
and if the bard could do countersong, distraction, AND courage at the same time it might be interesting, but by the time that happens it is way too late.

>The bard is the best knowledge monkey in the game without trying
the investigator says hi.

>high-utility spell list that enables them to heal, support the party, and control the battlefield with their illusions and enchantments.
Its spell list isn't any better than any other 6th level caster. Glibness is nice I guess.

>They also aren't useless with weapons, unlike full casters. A bard can do pretty well for himself with a dex rapier or shortbow build, particularly if he can arcane strike regularly.
They are useless with weapons compared to every other partial caster. I think they are literally the worst 6th level caster in terms of class features helping them with weapons.

Its not exactly a "terrible" class, and when built well can still be helpful. I just think that its one of the weaker tier 3 classes in the game. It just doesn't do anything particularity well.

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>>46355145
>>46355225
>>46355276
After having time to work through the archetypes in-depth:
>Vigilante (Stalker) is T4
>Vigilante (Avenger) is T4
>Vigilante (Brute) is T5
>Vigilante (Magical Child) is T3
>Vigilante (Cabalist) is T3
>Vigilante (Zealot) is T3
>Vigilante (Warlock) is T3
>Vigilante (Mounted Fury) is T4
>Vigilante (Psychometrist) is T3
>Vigilante (Wildsoul) is T4
>Vigilante (Gunmaster) is T5

The whole "low/high T3" thing is silly, but if I was going to rank them from top to bottom, it'd be Warlock/Cabalist, then Psychometrist/Zealot, then Magical Child.

>>46355018

No, it should be:
>Giving your entire team a +1 at level 1 or a +2 at level 5 (or a +3 at level 11)

>>46355290
>Its spell list isn't any better than any other 6th level caster.
Weren't you the assfaggot complaining earlier about how deraily Enchantment spells are? Which Bards tend to have better access to than Inquiditor's

Also, you still keep getting your bonuses wrong. Maybe that's why you suck so much at playing a Bard.

>>46355290

+1 at level 1. +2 at level 5. I'm not sure what Inspire Courage you're reading.

>Investigator

When he gets 1/2 his level to every knowledge check, lemme know. The bard can also take 10 on any knowledge check six levels earlier without spending a talent on it, and take twenty a couple times a day.

For spell lists, it depends, I guess. I mean, the magus spell list is very heavily based on blasting while the bard's has a lot more utility, and I tend to lean towards the latter.

The Inquisitor is much better at solo kill-you-dead with its judgements and bane-on-demand, but the bard is the single best force multiplier in the game, and I would still argue fairly close to the Investigator for the best at skills.

The Matchmaker spell makes me think of a royal pair in an arranged marriage, who have never actually met each other before but whose engagement rings bind them both in a Matchmaker spell effect.

>>46355344
Your right. I fucked up the courage thing.
Doesn't change that it is bad. It might be good if you have an archer in your party, as it could actually work with all those attacks, but besides that it just doesn't seem that impressive.

>>46355364
>Weren't you the assfaggot complaining earlier about how deraily Enchantment spells are? Which Bards tend to have better access to than Inquiditor's
First: I don't see the need for personal attacks.
Second: The inquisitor is a divine caster.

>>46355379
>+1 at level 1. +2 at level 5. I'm not sure what Inspire Courage you're reading.
The mis-remembered one in my head.

If you are going for knowledge checks, I'm almost sure the empiricist has the bard beat.

Again: Its not like its "super bad" or whatever. I just think it is one of the weaker t3 classes. Partially because it is too much of a generalist, and partially because it depends on other people bringing well built characters to be good.

I also don't get why no-one but me posts builds. They aren't that hard to make.

>>46355490
Because people have better shit to do than waste time correcting your abrasive ass.

>>46355473

Shelyn Disapproves (-25)

>>46355490
>First: I don't see the need for personal attacks.
>Second: The inquisitor is a divine caster.
We're you actually trying to make a point, or are you just buttflustered?

>>46355490
>I also don't get why no-one but me posts builds.

Because we aren't such tremendous autists as you.

>>46355538
>lol the 6th level arcane caster has better access to enchantment spells than the 6th level divine caster
I didn't think a point need to be made.

>>46355515
Posting one build is all it would take to change my mind. I also though i was being really nice this time.

>>46355490
>I also don't get why no-one but me posts builds. They aren't that hard to make.
We've explained this to you at least 20 times now. If you still insist on asking this despite all of what we've told you, then you should really either take social skills therapy and/or leave /pfg/ for good.

Seriously, at least 2hu admitted when he had a hard time dealing with people, you're just being an obstinate idiot

>>46355573
Because you made it a meme, idiot. You named yourself fucking Buildposter. You are the one who posts builds. You are also a huge cock. Ergo, nobody wants to be like you. Ergo, nobody's going to post builds.

>>46353635
>that jewish feel when the creepy dude brainwashing other people into making out is fucking drowning in magen david

>>46355573
Here's the thing, man.

Just ditch the buildposter name.

Just get rid of it. It's become a meme even more than 2hu was, and you have like, four pretenders.

Just take the name off and forget about it.

>>46353949
She was always bi, which is the natural state of any rogue.

>>46355638
The thing about posting builds/facts/math it that they end the argument. The kinetistist argument would have never ended had I not actually shown what it can do and educated people on how the class actually works. A posted, fully put together build of a bard would easily prove what it can and can't do. You can't argue with numbers.

>>46355698
>You can't argue with numbers.
Except you can. And we do. All the time.

>>46355573
>I didn't think a point need to be made.
I think it does, because I'm looking at their respective spell lists, and it seems to me that the Bard gets much better support for useful Enchantment spells than an Inquisitor does, and actually has the Cha to make good use of them

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>>46354053
Why did you answer your own question? All JJ's NPCs are sexy, poorly built sluts. It's almost like he designs them to fall for Enchantment effects, even when he bullshits their stats up super hard.

>>46355698
>educated people on how the class actually works

All you did was make a build that's comparable to a bow Warrior.

>>46355698
Look at you being a condescending asshole.

I wonder why we don't like you.

>>46355698
No, we laughed at your shit numbers, and stopped talking about it because you derailed far too many threads.

You are a cancer on /pfg/, and you should just wank off

>>46354073
You think it would be CN, or NE, or LE, but secretly TN is the biggest dick alignment because it is completely free to be dickish however it wants. This includes railing all the naive sluts in Taldor.

>>46355753

Sometimes I wish Paizo would do a "create-a-character" on their forums to design the next main character of an AP.

>>46355746
And you are right? The bard, being a arcane caster, has better access to enchantment spells than the divine caster.

The sorcerer also has better access to fireball than the cleric.

>>46355756
>le bow warrior epic meymey
Here is my kinetistist: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43294723/#43300120
Post your bow warrior. We both know you won't.

>>46355795
This would result in a mind-rapist full caster that would destroy most reasonable adventuring parties.
I would be fine with this.

>>46355793

There certainly are a lot of True Neutrals who are huge assholes, while somehow managing to be holier-than-thou about good types because good types are apparently too holier-than-thou for them.

>>46354402
Well, she's assumed to be part of an adventuring party so she has to have formed some relationship beyond the talking fox.

>>46354413
Forgot to save it but I remember they murdered a bunch of Knights of Ozem to steal a relic of Iomedae. Where's my Glorious Reclamation against the PFS?

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>>46355795
>Shensen
>main character
Nah, she's actually hilariously disposable when she does show up. All the supposed 'famous hero rebels of old' get sucked into the Rebellion system and broken down into numerical bonuses the moment the party saves/retrieves them.

POSTING SUPERIOR HELL'S REBELS WAIFU

>>46355859

I want to be the guy that makes her never allowed to wear that nose ring again!

>>46355832
wow, that is really shit
I made a much more murdery blasting using the destruction handbook and spheres

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>>46354413
>>46355848
>digging back through old threads to find it
>2/3 of the opening posts are generic animu girls
Anyway, here go.

>>46355848
Like Mordenkainen?

>>46355888
>not enchanting her to want to get even more piercings

>>46355901
loweffortbait/10

>>46355832
Then why did you even make the Inquisitor point to even begin with of the point was Moot? Because logically, you would not have made a statement towards that in the way that you did if you didn't believe in the contrary.
Meaning if what this current post means is true, then the only reason you made the other post was because you were salty, and didn't want to admit than you just got told, so you instead tried to be passively aggressive and dismissive.

Which really is telling about how much of a shitboot you are. Please think before posting you gargling knuckldragger

>>46355832

That is actually nice, a kineticist that can do things without chugging a gajillion burn.

Although most tables won't allow hobgoblin PCs. Still, either eat the minor loss to CON or DEX and play human or play dual-talent human, I guess.

>>46355925

Who says she doesn't have more piercings, anon? Kintargo is a very liberal place, I'm sure a hip young thing might find certain sensitive regions are great for cold metal studs.

>>46354772
It's a strong, well built ship. I can't post any of my evidence on a blue board, but it is there.

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>>46355925
>>46355948
She's LN and confirmed pure, you chaotic deviants. Quit being so lewd!

>>46355753
there's something... just so wrong with that face.
just... so wrong.

>>46355962
Blue board?

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>>46355832
>This would result in a mind-rapist full caster that would destroy most reasonable adventuring parties.
Like a Bard?

>>46355992
Lurk moar newfag

>>46355939
read:
>>46354828

I think the inquisitor is better than the bard because it can be built to be good at things. For the inquisitor that is usually killing stuff. You are the one who is obsessed with the inquisitor spell list. No idea where that came from.

>>46356005
I've been here for months, it's like the second time I've seen the phrase "blue board" come up

Nobody answered last time, either

>>46356059
SFW, stupid

>>46356059
The pron boards have a different background color.

>>46356074
I got that from context, but why is it call-

>>46356083
Ahhh. I don't use the default themes, so I never noticed. Thanks!

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>>46356038
Linked the wrong posts there, moron?

>>46356059
Open /tg/ in one tab, then open /d/,/b/, or /h/ in the other. Compare the two colors.

Or just look it up on your own.

>>46355859
Don't you need Shensen for some magic song or something?

>>46355915
At least they're not specifically Touhou anymore. We dealt with that for a month.

>>46355915

Wasn't one of the society adventure bosses a 10 int level 16 fighter, who was the mastermind behind the evil plots that rekt the pathfinder society?

"Eyes of the Ten", I think?

>>46356093
>Linked the wrong posts there, moron?
no? That was the original question, which included the inquisitor. I replied with
>>46354848
and then everyone got really really upset.

>>46356117
Why'd you remove your name?

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>>46356117
So yes, you did link the wrong post, because if you wanted to make an earlier point you would've just looked directly to the post instead of just grabbing the comment starter. You're just too buttflustered to admit it.

Honestly, watching you spill your spaghetti all over the thread like this is adorable

>>46353635
>>46353928

Now I'm picturing an adventuring party investigating some strange, torrid love triangles and affairs in a bustling city to discover a pair of teenage girls are causing all the trouble by abusing their newly-discovered mesmerist powers to engage in ship wars while getting filthy rich.

The party's face and someone else in the party just became the new OTP.

>>46356174

Does Shelyn have a Cupid? A dude that flies around hooking soul mates up?

Is there a spell to do that? Find your most compatible partner with highest potential for intimacy?

>>46356169
See:
>>46355643

I originally added the name during the kinetistest war, because it was getting really confusing with multiple annons talking to each other.

>>46356173
at this point I really have no idea what you are on about.

as stated here:
>>46356038
>I think the inquisitor is better than the bard because it can be built to be good at things. For the inquisitor that is usually killing stuff.

this was in response to you going off about the inquisitor spell list vs the bard spell list, which I never argued about? The inquisitors spell list isn't that great. Its the other class feature that make it good.

are you just baiting? Because 9/10 if yes. You have me legitimately confused.

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>>46356112
Nah. In the book following her de-statueification, there's a single sequence where they're blatantly pushing for her to accompany the PCs (the Asmodeans built a secret prison in her house after they captured her, because reasons lol), and after that there's no point where the mayor or the LG Hellknight lictor can't substitute for her roles.

Also, the Song of Silver wound up being barely relevant to the plot in the end. It's just "treat weapons as silver, teleportation requires a CL check, and the PCs get some save bonuses and fear immunity and a one-time breath of life", a bunch of standard buffs in other words. The Kintargo Contract is the actual key plot device that saves the independence movement from Chelish curbstomping.

>>46356113
YEP, pic related.

>>46355978

Nipple piercings are a blessing of Shelyn, anon. Quit being an Iomedae.

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>>46356291
>piercings
>Shelyn
Wrong sibling, though I remain hopeful of her conversion...

>>46356284
>that build
good god really?

>>46356291

This reminds me of the time we discussed the possibility of a Paladin to Shelyn getting enchantment bonuses from nipple rings.

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>>46356356
Which one, anon? The fighter BBEG, or the 13th-level wizard who apparently used all her divination prowess to find a way to be utterly useless in a fight SHE KNEW WAS COMING?

>>46356284

So are the dopplegangers each individually CR10 or is that the CR for all of them at once?

>>46356408
Yes.

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>>46356281
>Its the other class feature that make it good.
You mean a Judgement that is strictly inferior to performance as explained in >>46355251 (which I notice you never addressed, so your probably avoiding it because it proves you wrong), a Domain or Inquisition that doesn't grant spells and either wait until later level to be useful or stays mediocre (except Conversion, that one's genuinely good), crap skill support without specializing in (which all Bards get for essentially free), limited support for dealing with multiple dudes in any meaningful way, and most all of your abilities don't really help the party since Judgement and Solo Tactics only affect you unless you waste spells on it.

The only advantage Inquisitors have over Bards are Detect SLAs and Bane, the latter which is still kinda limited

So no, genuine criticism against the lack of points you make is not trolling. That would be under your accidental purview.

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>>46356327
Go away Zonnie, you and that bee bitch aren't even competent BDSM deities to begin with.

>>46356501
>judgement vs inspire
Swift action to activate, plus it can do a lot more than just +1 to hit/damage, and scales a lot faster. It is +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 6th level, +4 at 9th level, etc. Way better than inspire courage, which scales like shit, and takes a standard action to start. It gets easier to activate it, but too little too late.

>domain/inquisition
Conversion is really good. The other are ok, but still are at least something.

>crap skill support without specializing in (which all Bards get for essentially free), limited support for dealing with multiple dudes in any meaningful way, and most all of your abilities don't really help the party since Judgement and Solo Tactics only affect you unless you waste spells on it.
Bards get +1/2 level on knowledge...and inquisitors get +wisdom on knowledge of monsters. Kinda equal honestly? inquisitor wins early easily, bard can catch up later I think.

>bane
>limited
Swift action activation, and good for levels/day? +7 damage is nice to have dude. It also stacks with the judgements

>>46356630
All hail Ardarvia, our Maiden in Black

>>46356682
Just checked, bane is ALSO +2 to hit, which stacks with the judgements, making the bards inspire courage just pathetic in comparison.

>>46356717

The Plain Doll was cuter though.

>>46356725
You've never heard the term "force multiplier" have you?

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>>46356327
>>46356630
>"hurr muh pain fetishism"
>baby empyreal lords trying to talk shit like grown-ups
You fucks are the reason I'm never coming back to Golarion.

>>46356717
What? No! I am Neshen, the Steel Lash! Empryeal Lord of redemption through pain! Not some made up-

-oh gods, who am I kidding?! Even that upstart /tg/ dominatrix is better known than I am! I blame you, Paizo! My weapon doesn't even match my title or symbol! Why?!

>>46356787
Lissala 4716: Make Thassilon Rune Again.

>>46356284
Wait what?
>2d6+14
>Power attack damage at level 16 ALONE using a 2-hander is +15

>>46356787
Good riddance, just another crap dominatrix deity written by Paizo fucks with no insight to the community beyond what some Hollywood fucks put in movies.

>>46356832

You'll RUNE the day she comes back!

>>46356781
Well it takes a whole party member. so if it's force multiplier is less than 1.33....

Plus half of the other party probably doesn't' care about you +hit and damage that much.

>>46356854

You'd be astonished how ignorant and narrow-minded the people who pride themselves on "intellect and rationality" are.

>>46356717
>>46356749
>>46356789
I don't know these guys.

>>46356682
You realize that the +attack Judgement scales at almost the same rate as Inspire Courage?

>>46354970
I think you fucked up basic math, dude. +2 to hit and damage at 5th level is phenomenal.

For your average full BAB two handed combatant it's roughly a 30% DPR increase.

For an archer, it's around a 50% increase. Around 60% if they're using Deadly Aim.

Shit gets even better with haste or at 6th level, and has a greater impact on people that don't have the best hit bonus.

>>46356903
priding yourself on it and having it are VERY different things.

for example, a friend of mine prides himself on his looks and sexual magnetism.

He looks like a thin danny devito (same height!) and sounds about as creepy as he does on It's Always Sunny, but he prides himself still anyways!

>>46356725
Except you get it a tad late

Plus, while Judgement only needs a Swift, Inspire lasts longer, has more daily use, provides more than JUST ONE FUCKING BONUS TO ONE FUCKING THING, is party wide, and can be switched out on the fly for any other performance in case the situation changes.

Inquisitors are kitted out to find and kill one dude, while Bards are kitted out to help steamroll encounters, be the skill and knowledge guy (which is much more versatile than just "against monsters only") and make everyone better at their job.

Bards have far more narrative control, and party versatility/functionality than an Inquisitor can ever have. Plus if I wanted Bane, I'd get it crafted on my bow or rapier.

>>46356854
>dominatrix deity
Literally learn the lore, anon. Lissala was basically utilitarian Erastil, it's her worshippers turning into a bunch of self-important arcane-casting BDSM freaks that led to her throwing her hands up and ditching Golarion.
>As Thassilon grew more decadent, so did Lissala’s priesthood, though this was a reflection of the country’s culture and not a directive of the goddess. In earlier centuries, the church encouraged lazy acolytes to seek careers outside the priesthood and sold weak-willed slaves to other temples; over time the priesthood hardened and flagellation became a common practice among underlings and slaves, either as punishments for minor errors or for the gratification of the superior clergy.

>>46356906

He said the Maiden in Black, which is a FROMsoft woman, the Plain Doll from Bloodborne is also from a FROMsoft game.

>>46356906
>>46357031
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ardarvia

It's 3.5 technically, but can be converted easily

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>>46353635
>Kyra doesn't even look that mad
>Mel has that le happy merchant face

Perfect.

>>46356272
>party sorcerer uses spell
>"Why is it pointing at a wolf?"

>>46357142

Awaken+Polymorph = Good Times

>>46357090
Kyra knows that Merisiel enjoys this and doesn't mind too much. And deep down she wants to feel Valeros' full BAB.

>>46355251
Judgement is crappy but you can swap it out for SLA Summons (or maneuvers with PoW:E)

>>46357090

Kyra's Qadiran, she's internally seething with righteous feminine rage.

>>46354205
It's easier, takes less time and takes less prep, also good if you are not very creative or bad at storytelling/and or campaign design but still want to run a game for your friends.
Finally it is a good start for a new dm.

>>46356682
>Swift action to activate, plus it can do a lot more than just +1 to hit/damage, and scales a lot faster.

Yeah, but it's just for the inquisitor. It's a versatile ability, sure, but if you use it to give you a bonus to attack, it scales about the same rate as bard's ability (1+1 every 5 levels vs 1 plus 1 at 5, 11, and 17), and doesn't give you damage, AND doesn't apply to the whole party.

When used to give you extra damage, it's like a far shittier version of a Cavalier's challenge. You get fewer uses, it scales at 1/3 the rate, and you don't get the benefit of full BAB to actually land those hits. You don't lose 2ac vs other attackers, but big friggin' whoop.

The bonus to saves is nice, but while the bard doesn't get an ability that does the same until 15th level, the bard's version also gives AC (at the same scaling as the inquisitor's bonus to AC judgement!), can be given to someone other than the bard, and also scales to cover additional party memebers.

The healing seems pretty useless.

The only judgement that is straight up something that Bard doesn't do just as well or better if you're counting, yanno, the rest of the fucking party, is the Smiting one, which could come in handy in the low-mid levels.

>>46354222
Where is RoTRL? it looks good unfortunately the only time I played it was with a shitty gm.

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>>46354624
GREMLINS.

MY ENEMIES WILL NEVER HAVE A MATCHING PAIR OF SOCKS AGAIN

>>46357221
She's just mad she can't make him marry her.

>>46354253
Arthas.

>>46357155
>polymorph
Why go that far?

>>46354947
Only because it got unchained summoner spell list instead of core summoner.

>>46357155
What is the point of polymorph if you can't use it to permanently make you into whatever creature you want?

>>46356925
Except no they don't. The swift action vs. standard/move thing is also huge.

>>46356943
HO LEE FUC what kind of math are you using?

Assuming we aren't at the edge of the RNG. +2 to hit is basically +10% damage. For that +2 damage to equal a +50 % increase in effective damage it needs to increase your base weapon damage by 36.4%, which means that your weapon originally did less than 6 damage per hit in total.

God damn man.

>>46357004
>judgement doesn't last whole fight
huh?

>switched on the fly
you mean spending another standard or move action to switch it.

>benefits the whole party
You are also assuming the all of the other party members care about the inspire courage. My evocation sorcerer sure didn't. Probably only around half of the party would.

>>46357250
1: it scales a lot faster, so quit trying to say they are the same
2: at level 8 you get two judgements, or shared judgement which is awesome because not everyone in your party will need the bonuses
#: it also affects only you, which is technically worse, but the bard is assuming that the other party members care about the +. if you party is 100% melee fighters then maybe. Usually you will only have one or two other physical attackers.

>>46356876
>Well it takes a whole party member.

It takes a standard (then move at 7th, then swift at 13th) action from one party member, who is then only investing a swift action in it per round, meanwhile they are also a 3/4bab class with 6 levels of spellcasting from a pretty decent list.

And with a feat, you can make a move action whenever you spend a round of bardic performance, so if you plan on moving around a lot, you may actually be gaining action economy.

>>46357277
>"It's not our laws" he said. SCREW HIM!
>..... is what I'll never do! hmph!

>>46357351
Read Polymorph Any Object.

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Is there any elemental-based crafting that works like Eberron's elemental binding?

>>46357385
as opposed to a judgement that only takes a swift ever, doesn't need to be maintained and thus fucking over other swift action, scales almost twice as fast, AND can be doubled up on (and later even trippled up on) or shared with one other team mate?

Its just worse man.

>>46357375
Uh... no. That's not how it works at all. Percent increases to DPR from accuracy are relative to your un-buffed hit chance. If your accuracy beforehand was 50%, it's a 20% damage increase just from the accuracy (not factoring in the damage per hit increase), since you're landing 20% more attacks than you were before. It's actually impossible for an attack to gain a DPR bonus of 10% or less from a +2 bonus to hit unless your chance to hit was already 90%.

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I'm really getting a kick out of the fact that the CG and NE gnome iconics are brothers and hate each other.

>>46357375
>it scales a lot faster
>Literally the same bonus until level 10
>+1 difference at level 20

???

>>46357448
Best part is that their names are Mel (Mesmerist) and Lem (Bard).

>>46357429
>not filling all your lanterns with trapped lantern archons instead

>>46357432
I would take a bard over an inquisititor, they bring more utility and feats for arcane magic tend to be better then feats for divine so you can augment yourself better with them.

>>46357443
I was trying to avoid actually accounting for auto-misses, auto hits, crit threats, etc.

Do get the actual math we will need someones attack bonus, damage, crit range, crit multiplier, and the AC of what they are attacking.

you pick the numbers and I'll do the math.

>>46357470
<1+1/3rd level
vs
<+1 until 5th, +2 until 11th, +3 until 17th
get checked dude

>>46357448
Of course the bottom picture there is a Halfling from 3.5. Not even a gnome let alone a specific character.

>>46357499
>Wanting to piss off angels this bad

>>46357375
>>judgement doesn't last whole fight
Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said that and you know it. I was implying that Judgement only really lasts a small number of fights, which usually last only to three rounds, while a Performance, when used smartly, can be useful the whole day long

>my Evocation Sorcerer didn't
Probably because you forgot that the bonuses also apply to spell attack rolls. Plass half the party getting three different bonuses is better than one guy getting a singular and only marginally higher bonus

Honestly, use your damned head

>>46357375
>>46357443
For instance, if you've got a fairly standard 5th level archer using Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim their attack routine might look like +7/+7 (1d8+7/x3), and a CR 5 opponent has an average AC of 18.

So, hitting on an 11, that pegs their DPR at 12.075. With Inspire Courage adding a +2 bonus to hit and damage, that improves their routine to +9/+9 (1d8+9/x3), which against the same target produces a DPR of 19.716- a 63.28% increase.

>>46357448

Isn't the mesmerist's name an anagram of "Lem Is Great?"

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>>46357394

>>46357524
>Justice: This judgment spurs the inquisitor to seek justice, granting a +1 sacred bonus on all attack rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every five inquisitor levels she possesses. At 10th level, this bonus is doubled on all attack rolls made to confirm critical hits.

>>46357551
>Destruction: The inquisitor is filled with divine wrath, gaining a +1 sacred bonus on all weapon damage rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every three inquisitor levels she possesses.

>>46357544
>Meligaster
>Mel Is gater
>Lem Is Great
It checks out.

>>46357527
...anon, the pic is from Ultimate Campaign. Like, you can even clearly see the same shitty bracelets on Lem.

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>>46357544
>>46357582
Christ, I'd go NE too if I my parents did that.

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Guys, guys! It's really easy to see why BUILDPOSTER thinks that Inquisitor is better!
He doesn't play with anyone, so he's got no teammates to buff and therefore doesn't see the party-wide bonus as any different than a solo bonus!

>>46357537
>Probably because you forgot that the bonuses also apply to spell attack rolls.
which basically none of the good evocation spells use. I'm literally playing one right now. Burning arc and fireball don't care about your +hit.

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>>46357471
That sounds familiar.

>>46357627
Ahhhhh. Makes sense.

>>46357375

>1: it scales a lot faster, so quit trying to say they are the same

But it fucking doesn't. Judgement for bonus to attack rolls scales 1 every 5 inquisitor levels. Damage is the one that scales with every 3.

Bard inspire courage goes +1 at level 1, +2 at level 5, +3 at level 11, and +4 at level 17.

So at worst it's 2 levels behind. that's faster, but not really a lot faster, especially at the normal level range most people play at. plus you get bonus damage as well, plus it applies to the whole party. That still helps casters a little, since the bonus to attack should also apply to any ray or touch attacks they want to try.

plus summoned creatures, eidolons, friendly NPCs, etc.

>>46357564
Yes, and I have been talking about attack rolls the entire time. In terms of damage, you're also worse off unless you're playing solo.

>>46357673
It really does. If you look at only your mechanical abilities you will not see how much of a bonus you can be to the party.
Also heroism is an all around nice spell to have.

>>46357627
>personal attack
I really shouldn't even respond, but I'm actually in two games. I'm playing an evocation sorcerer every sunday, and running reign of winter game every Friday.

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Hey /pfg/, ask an anon who owns Inner Sea Faiths anything.

>>46357550

Tsundere healers with slim, nearly flat bodies are the best.

>>46357744
How does wasting your money feel?

>>46357744
Can we see the table of contents?

>>46357683
>implying the other players characters are anything but TWF chained rogues, elven healing oracles, and sword+board dwarf fighters.
>implying giving them +10 to everything would save them.

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>>46357724

I do like that UI seems to be including some spells that play on certain things (the helpful NPC is casting Heroism on us! Sweet!) and make twitchy players take pause (waiiiiiiiit a second...) before accepting them.

This is a great book for my party to learn why their butler is named Diogenes.