Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>46141537
I am seriously tempted to have Princess Anduin in my AU campaign. Please talk me out of it. Or talk me into it, I guess, if you want.

>>46144096
The very first thing your players will ask you is "Why?". Don't do it unless you can think of a reason other than your magical realm or Fem-Anduin a cute.

File: region-nagrand-full.jpg (497KB, 1600x795px) Image search: [Google]

497KB, 1600x795px

>>46144055
Sometimes it feels that Warhammer is like My Little Pony in its fans' affinity for crossovers.

Obviously X-craft is not really a good example of that, considering its history

Please tell me some tenets or taboos of Shamanism.

>>46144139
well once you steal everything, it becomes great for cross overs.
>>46144175
coercing elements forcibly is a big no no.

>>46144175
everything Thrall ever did?

don't do that

>>46144119
Political marriage between Anduin and Liam Greymane to bring Gilneas into the Alliance earlier? ...I'm not sure on Liam's age, though, so that could be awkward.
And at least two of my players won't bat an eye, one of whom will first ask to borrow clothes from her.

It's just that it seems like a significant change, when I'm really only mildly tweaking the canon. Like Kael'thas more obviously joining the Legion earlier, the false flag Shattrath attack being confirmed to be his doing and Illidan didn't piss Akama off enough to make him want Broody McEmo to get ganked by twenty-five guys.

I dunno. Is swapping a character's sex a 'significant' change? It's not something I usually think about.

>>46144247
>a 'significant' change
Having a male heir certainly makes things easier for Stormwind in terms of courtly politics and succession.

>>46144229
thrall did everything right though as far as shamanism goes. Thats why he gets to be the earth warder and not the fucking tauren or nobundo. WTF metzen

>>46144096
What else is AU?

First and foremost, Annadwyn would probably motivate her father even more, assuming Varian is still male as per MU, seeing as she probably resembles her mother and so she's even more precious to him as a memento.

Upon that, Annadwyn means political marriage and thus finally adds some depth on how the human nations interact with eachother. Most other nations only have male heirs, or at least only have them as named personalities, so it is the potential to further tighten the bonds of the alliance through marriage.

This could mean potential plothooks for your group, such as attempts to sabotage the bethrothal.

File: 1383881293613.jpg (87KB, 420x504px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 420x504px

>>46144344

>>46144344
See >>46144247
Not much is different, currently, but I'm still in the early stages of campaign planning. It's right at the start of TBC, since the spark that got the idea started was "What if we teamed up with Illidan?"

Though I have some ideas for the expansions after it. Like the players having a significant role in whether Garrosh becomes Warchief. I'm kind of hoping that they go the civil war route if it comes to it, personally. Or at least verbally smack down Thrall for playing up Grom's bloodlust as heroic.

Though I intend to keep some controversial stuff, like Thrall becoming the stand-in aspect of earth to take down Deathwing. Spoiler: He ODs on MacGuffin orb and dies after landing the killing blow. Because no mortal should be able to handle that kind of power, and it's a nice capstone to his acceptance of the role as World Shaman, that Azeroth and its people are more important than his life.

File: therazane_the_stonemother.jpg (209KB, 1010x1000px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 1010x1000px

>>46144175

-First and foremost, respect the powers you call upon. Do not attempt to deceive, coerce, force, or enslave them to do your will.
-Cultivate a relationship with the powers you call upon. This way, their powers grow with your own.
-Do not cavort with dark powers that would seek to subvert the elements/spirits, i.e. demons, old gods, void entities, etc.
-Do not misuse the gifts you have been given. Asking the fire to cook your supper is usually not a life-and-death circumstance, and likely to anger it.
-Flippancy and treating the elements as equal to mortals is sure to earn their ire. Humility is not a trait the spirits often have. Once you cultivate a relationship, friendship and familiarity is possible.
-Remember that different spirits have different desires, and how much they vary even on Azeroth- an untamed air elemental is a tempest and would desire nothing more than to scatter your foes to the wind, but an air elemental of Pandaria would sooner dance amongst the trees to rustle the leaves.

>>46144497
>Though I intend to keep some controversial stuff, like Thrall becoming the stand-in aspect of earth to take down Deathwing. Spoiler: He ODs on MacGuffin orb and dies after landing the killing blow. Because no mortal should be able to handle that kind of power, and it's a nice capstone to his acceptance of the role as World Shaman, that Azeroth and its people are more important than his life.
I thought he wasn't so much holding all pof the Earthwarder power as simply tricking the protections on the Demon Soul to THINK he was Deathwing.


(Actually the similarities between shaman and deathwing were laid out as far back as Day of the Dragon where Zuluhed the Whacked could not use his dark shamanism to control the post-WotA "No Deathwing allowed" Demon Soul and needed Nekros Skyllcrusher's warlock magic.

>>46144385
>femVarian will never sit on your face.
why live.

>>46144659
Ah, that brings back memories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K3oTqHaG1Q

>>46144699
with a taste as objectively shit as yours, I'm puzzled as for why would you want to.

/ss/ with tyrande, however.

Alright, serious lore question: Do netherdrakes ever speak? Are they intelligent?

>>46144750
I specifically referred to a r63 character.
Tyrande and her daughter go without saying

>>46144807
Yes and yes.
They are just black dragons tempered with magic

There were multiple quests around them, its pretty obvious.

>>46144750
>Tyrande
>Not Liadrin

>>46144807
Yeah. They're intelligent enough to form a reputation faction in TBC and send disguised agents to sabotage hostile orc clans, at least. One of them also sells netherdrake mounts in Shattrath, which brings up a lot of questions.

>>46144841
Well, I ask because I never did those quests and the wiki I checked wasn't forthcoming with information. Then I checked the page for faction after I posted the question, which was clearer.

I knew about them being mutated black dragons, I just wasn't aware offhand if the process fucked with their brains.

Thanks for the info.

>>46144807
they're non-evil black dragons mutated by magic

>>46144865
>One of them also sells netherdrake mounts in Shattrath, which brings up a lot of questions.
Renting themselves out as a taxi service?

>>46144750
>not Moira
she took the prince for a reason

Why are warlocks so best?

File: elf2.jpg (28KB, 529x352px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 529x352px

>>46144865
>Liadrin's voice

>>46144209
>>46144659
Thank you

>>46144841
>>46144865
>tfw Blizzard forgot about Nether Drakes so they could make a big deal out of Wrathion being the only uncorrupted Black Dragon

Shamans seem to be more about collaborating with the Elemental Planes, which is awesome and all that, but is there any aspect of ancestral power? Do they also speak with the deceased and channel their power?

>>46145046
>is there any aspect of ancestral power
Yes, once the shaman reaches level 14.

>>46145046
Speaking to them? Yes, in fact its a big part of Tauren and Orcish shaman culture. As for actually channeling their power, I can't say

>>46144929
well she did bang a dark iron...

>>46145042
They aren't black dragons anymore. They're their own flight now, albeit descended from the black flight.

So yeah, Wrathion is still the only uncorrupted black dragon.

File: tyrande whisperwind.jpg (59KB, 736x413px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 736x413px

>>46144865
Sorry but I love the night. It is much more beautiful and exotic.

>>46144497
That's awesome, and something similar is probably gonna happen with him.
Btw, who is gonna be apotheosised to have the support of the Fire Elements against the Legion?

>>46144929
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0

Anduin's theme related.

>>46145046
>>46145079
>>46145089
I thought they should make an "Anscestral" reskin of the Feral Spirit wolves, male and female of the Shaman's species wearing Shaman Dungeon Set 1.

>>46145046
In lore, venerating the dead and asking them for guidance is described as an important aspect of shamans. This is also the justification why shamans and druids are a separate class even though both basically use nature magic and are about maintaining a personal relationship with the spirits of nature - Shamans talk to the afterlife, druids focus on life as it is right now.

File: grossly incandescent.jpg (168KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 1280x720px

>>46145126

>>46145158
That'd be awesome. I ask because while I love the elemental shtick, I was wondering what scope Shamans had outside the combat abilities of WoW. In WC3, Thrall was stated to be a Farseer which was different to a Shaman but all Shamans did was chain lightning and lightning shields and heals.

>>46144865
In TBC you can only buy the mount when you are exalted with nether dragons and the Drakes you get serve you willingly.

So I assume those "mounts" works as agents for netherdragon to anyone they are "sold" to.

>>46145180
The other difference is that druids channel the power of nature directly, while shaman politely ask the elements to help them. Which is why shaman summon elementals and druids turn into bears.

>>46145213
SHamans have ghostwolf and other shifts as well.

In fluff the border is a little fuzzier, especially since some creatures use the Emerald dream as their afterlife.

>>46145213
>Which is why shaman summon elementals and druids turn into bears.
and also why druids use astral magic instead of elemental magic

>>46145213
well if you force the elements it becomes VERY fucking toxic

>>46145180
>>46145213
I figured the difference was that Druids are about life and nature and there's that whole yingyang thing going on. Shamans and Elements have that natural aspect, but it's not really about life. At least, not all the time.

>>46145262
Shamans have a lot of Astral magic, Druids use emerald dream magic.

>>46145356
balance is all about the the sun and the moon

File: Suraku.jpg (148KB, 1005x622px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1005x622px

>>46144807

>If you choose me as your compatriot, I will fly you to the ends of this world and back. Whatever it is that you ask of me, I will do my best to comply.

File: 1458155174349.jpg (4MB, 2700x3600px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2700x3600px

>>46145046
it always seemed like shamans are more associated with "spirit", including elemental and ancestral spirits, whatever that means exactly, and druids are more associated with pure nature.

>>46145374
Ah you meant Stars and shit by Astral, I thought you were talking shit like Astral recall.

Also, fuck sun balance, it's all about stars and plants, I quit my druid when they forced those holy looking spells on Balance.

>>46145435
nah, it fits with the entire druid thing. If anything, blizzard should have made the tauren spells by powered by the sun and the nelf spells be powered by the moon for druids. A nice example of fluff without changing the balance too much. They could even call tauren druids sunwalkers instead of getting plate wearing paladins

>>46145472
Nah, it's fucking BS, I miss green wrath, I hate all this holy colored bullshit.

>>46145501
They should have kept all the lunar spells for night elves and the solar spells for tauren. It would be a nice balance.

>>46145425
That's the bit that always confused me. Evidently Tuaren and Orcs were the first Shaman and they spoke to their ancestors, so where did the elemental bit come from?

>>46145501
>tfw there's mobs in BC that still use green Wrath because Blizzard only updated it for players

File: Sol Invictus.jpg (13KB, 300x285px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 300x285px

>>46145472
>tauren spells by powered by the sun
I always expected solar shenanigans to be a blood/high elf thing. They've got the Sunwell, after all, and their entire aesthetic involves being flashy and brightly lit.

>>46145525
That would have also sucked. I just want my green nature stuff and blue/purple starstuff.

>>46145534
Lots of things have spirits, it's a mix of animism and ancestral stuff.

>>46145536
There are fucking mobs introduced in LEGION using classic Wrath.

Make Wrath Green again, and replace Sunfire with a green "Reverse moonfire" emerging from the ground.

>>46145564
that is literally because they got kicked out by the night elves. So they made their entire society based on the day as a big fuck you.

>>46145571
I said it was a nice way to differentiate the two druid races without too ruining balance.

One thing that I always liked about old warcraft lore was the Council of Tirisfal, and how important it was to the Human/High Elf civilization because their use of magic was always emitting signals that demons could pick up like a radar antennae.

Blizzard seemed to have forgotten about it until their comic writer stumbled upon it to create Gary, son of Stu and ruined it forever.

Especially with the advent of WoW and ALL THE CRAZY MAGIC THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON: Dalaran getting rekt and becoming a flying city; Sunwell being purified, Dragon Soul, Theramore getting mana-nuked, I'm not surprised more Demons have invaded.

Now that I think of it that is probably the plotline of how the demons invade Azeroth in Legion

>>46145630
Also because it was Dath'remar Sunstrider that saved their people from magical starvation by creating the Sunwell, and he was always the outlier of kaldorei society. It's not that they hate Elune, the stars, or the night.

File: StormcastEternalsPaladinsRetributors01.jpg (60KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 600x620px

>>46144139
Speaking of Warhammer, how does Warcraft compare to something like Age of Sigmar?

The main two differences I can see is that:
A: Warcraft is willing to have down time at Goldshire between it's giant demon dragon fights.

B: Warcraft is willing to admit it's sort of a goofy setting, while AoS plays it all straight.

>>46144497
Having Thrall die like that would be rather neat, or you could go the Bolvar route where channeling that much dragon magic turns Thrall into this half elemental creature to better reflect his new affinity. As a result however he looses alot the previous flexibility that he used to have. Or hell make it that once he does the kill his body turns into a statue or something that seeps molten magma, there's a skin in HoTS that has this story I think

>>46145856
>warcraft admitting its a goofy setting
Warcraft is straight edge.
>>46145779
yeah, the exiles as a whole went full 180 degrees against the druid based post WoTA society.

>>46145860
>there's a skin in HoTS that has this story I think
Earthbreaker Thrall
The "what if Thrall was Grom" skin is better

>>46145860
Only thing I can comment on;
The HotS skin is when Thrall succumbs to the power of the Earth when he becomes its Aspect.

>>46145425
So, this picture got me thinking: A lot of discussion about it sparks from the fact that it is assambled like a colourwheel, which creates some confusion about the placing of each energy source.

What if it was more aligned like a frequency spectrum? That way, the sources weren't placed according to what qualities they share with each other, but how they function at their core, which leaves some freedom and ultimately allows to place them in "weird" places and it still appears logical without further thought.

File: gnome_spidertank.jpg (148KB, 1300x908px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1300x908px

>>46145884
>Warcraft is straight edge.
Are you 100% sure about that?

>>46145956
yeah. I am gnomes and goblins are the joke race and everything they do is lolrandumb devices and explosions, and blizzard puts meme references in, but everything else is super cereal.

File: hearthstonegrandtournament00-1440208578162.jpg (194KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 1280x720px

>>46145884
Well what I meant was, Warcraft was able to have fun with itself.

>>46146044
yeah, and bloodbowl is a thing.

WoW lore has always been super cereal, even more than warhams, until GW went batshit crazy.

Just what kind of setting is Warcraft? Airships, rockets, gunpowder is clearly prevalent, but classic swords, archery, and magic are still viable. Shit makes me want to say steampunk but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth

>>46146318
basically tech is not that reliable and largely supported by magical means.

>>46146318
Steampunk with less reliance on the mega huge clockwork and other assorted asthetics. Mashed in with a bunch of MAGIC aesthetics to help it.

>>46146349
to add, the draenei are pretty much technosorcerors

File: funky garrosh.gif (1MB, 505x366px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 505x366px

>>46145884
>Warcraft is straight edge.

>>46146384
yeah, and warhammer has a regiment that is basically zulus in SPACE

not to mention all the dogs of war wackiness.
Hell warhammer halflings are a mix between hobbits and warcraft gnomes.

>>46146384
I always knew Garrosh had big stupid horns on his shoulders, but I didn't realise they flared out so much at the back. How does he fit through doorways?

>>46146318
steamdieselpunk magitek high fantasy

it's kind of a mess

File: 1457865669492.jpg (26KB, 459x278px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 459x278px

>>46145884
>Warcraft is straight edge
>A literal mixture of WHFB and D&D

>>46146578

well blizzard takes it too seriously.
And wowbabbies.

>>46146578
I'm not sure you understand what "literal" means.

File: bunch o trolls and a confused orc.jpg (53KB, 580x289px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 580x289px

>>46146433
I was discrediting >>46145884 poster's idea that Warcraft was straight edge by posting the main Villain of an expansion dancing, not agreeing with him. As someone who doesn't play Warhammer often, those tidbits of silly Warhammer info are pretty neat.

On a related note, Warhammer's Orkz and Gobs, greenskins in general, discredit the idea that Warhammer is straight edge.

>>46146595
>blizzard takes it too seriously
Depends on the writer doing the quests for a particular zone, really. Remember Uldum?

>>46145856
>>46145884
>>46145956
>>46146044

In all ingame cinematics and most campaign related dialogues, Warcraft 1 to Warcraft 3 have been super serious about themselves. This tells me that Warcraft is at its very core supposed to be tragic in its narrative instead of comedic.

However it is true that Blizzard have never backed away from humour. The easter egg lines from clicking units often enough are legendary, at this point, and that even made it to WoW when you cop one too many feels at the npcs, and that's just the most famous example. Stuff like >>46146384 is just another droplet in the sea.

But all of those things are the designers having fun with their own world. Most of this stuff is "off-topic", for lack of a better world, like people in a TTRPG-group going out of character. The intended tone of the setting is serious. It's not built around the humour.

>>46146638
they were both meLOL
>>46146640
Blizzard as a whole went so much on the epic adventure scale that now everything is an universe ending threat. It comes off as humorous but is completely tryhard.
WH AoS is just sad.

>>46146507
You forgot "Lovecroftian horror". We have tentacle gods and "incrompehensible mind parasites" since TFT.

>>46146318
Kitchen Sink Fantasy.

Just dump everything you can think of in there and smooth out the edges. Not necessarily a bad thing.

>>46146698
it's not really horror though

it's high fantasy lovecraft

>>46146683
>now everything is an universe ending threat
There is at least one quest in every expansion where the player does something poop-related. As serious as the main storyline gets, there's clearly someone on the writing team who's in it for giggles.

>>46146737
yeah and someone high up in Attila Total War is really into baneposting. That doesn't mean the game is actually about the trials of wreckage brother.

but yeah poop guy keeps it real.

>>46146778
Sorry what? There's baneposting in Attila TW?

>>46146611
I know very well what it means. Just put it for the sake of rage.

>>46146447
Sideways.

>>46146819
>the va literally shouts: The fire rises
>trait description for barbarians is "Now is not the time for fear, that comes later."

>>46146878
That's brilliant, I had no idea.

>>46146722
Pardon.

I thought the genre elements had to be declared "Lovecraftion horror" instead of just "Lovecraftian".

>>46146892
yeah. CA is based.
>Barbar soldier says "Say goodbye to your wives"
>barbar next to him says "For soon we will be saying hello."

Seriously, Warcraft Total War when?

>>46146778
I don't care for the poop guy.

>>46146970
at least someone gets that its a videogame. I mean, Corki being a retard is pretty funny.

>>46146991
Fucking Corki.

>>46146991
I don't find poop humor funny. If you do, enjoy it.

>>46146933
probably never. CA will be riding the Warhammer train for a while, and at some point they'll have to do another history title. So there's no room for warcraft. Shame, because I would love to see it happen

>>46147062
nice blog fuckboi you wanna tell us somethin else

>>46147085
yeah. they have it all planned out until 2k18. After that maybe blizzard could team up with CA. I mean once the fantasy doors are open, I am sure other franchises would love to diversify their stuff with the TW franchise.
>>46147062
I never said that the humor is well executed.

>>46147423
This is Blizzard. If it's not Easter Egg himor, it's not done well.

>>46147993
yeah. I know. At least poop guy's heart is in the right place.

>>46148135
He tries and he cares, which is a damn sight better than many others.

I need four Demonhunter NPCs.
Hankhillidan
Billidan
Illidale
and Boomhauer

>>46148228
yeah. thats the pity.
Blizzard's idea of a joke is
>wacky gnome tech
>night elf cheerleaders
which is just sad.

>>46144139
Steven Universe 40k is apparently a thing.

Please take me away from this planet. I no longer desire to live here.

>>46148250
I hope that DHs are just as OP at the start as DKs were early wrath, if only so it's possible to drag some poor confused pug through dungeons with those names while destroying everything.

>>46145100
>So yeah, Wrathion is still the only uncorrupted black dragon.
Not anymore. Apparently his quest role in Legion was just taken by another uncorrupted Black Dragon.

Anyhow, what does being "uncorrupted" even matter when you're still an evil monster responsible for unleashing an army of orcs upon Azeroth and hastening the return of the Burning Legion? I'd much rather have Wrathion turn out to be a red herring and have the true redemption of the Black Dragonflight come from one of the surviving corrupted dragons, proving their worth by having the will to overcome their condition rather than being born special.

Wrathion can then go become a villain, and it would honestly have a much better moral to it than most of Blizzard's stories. Just because a guy was manufactured to be a pure of blood chosen one doesn't mean they won't turn out to be a pompous and arrogant villain, and I'd much prefer a savior who came from the general population and could lead the other corrupted Black Dragons by example rather than having to purge them all.

>>46148304
>an autistic crossover makes you want to leave the planet

The internet might not be for you, friend.

>>46148250
Redpillidan, dropping the harsh truths about Goblins.

>>46148424
You underestimate just how terrible Steven Universe and its fans are.

>>46148304
You can't say that sort of thing without providing a link.

And the thing is, it's perfectly logical within the context of both settings. An Earthlike planet under attack from Xenos being defended by a human is very common.

Regardless, back to WoW.

>>46148416
>I'd much rather have Wrathion turn out to be a red herring and have the true redemption of the Black Dragonflight come from one of the surviving corrupted dragons, proving their worth by having the will to overcome their condition rather than being born special.
That would shit all over Rheastraza's sacrifice even more than just Wrathion being a shit.

>>46148478
And WC3 Doomguards.

>>46148500
I'm sure it's no worse than any other FOTM fanbase, anon.

>>46148360
Imagine queuing in as a healer and all the DPS plus the tank are KotH DH bros.

>>46148588
>That would shit all over Rheastraza's sacrifice even more than just Wrathion being a shit.
Sometimes good intentions don't equate to ideal results. She produced one pure egg and did nothing that could actually lead the rest of the Flight to salvation, and the one Black Dragon who actually tried following Wrathion was betrayed for it. The only "redemption" Wrathion offered was genocide, and nothing about his existence actually offered up a way to restore the Dragonflight after the fact.

Redemption doesn't come by wiping the slate and starting with an entirely new batch. You've got to make the old batch work despite whatever the fuck is wrong with it.

I think WoW actually had elements of that in its storytelling with how it was the uncorrupted Mag'har who were always the most warlike and committed the most despicable acts, while the corrupted green-skins who fought in the original wars generally knew better and tried to avoid that path.

>>46144865
>Liadrin
Liadrin is a fucking traitor who betrayed everything it meant to be a blood elf.

Instead of forging their own path they turned back to the exact forces tht failed people in the past.

Why would you even want such an unmitigated failure to sit on your face? Makes no sense.

>>46148972
>I think WoW actually had elements of that in its storytelling with how it was the uncorrupted Mag'har who were always the most warlike and committed the most despicable acts, while the corrupted green-skins who fought in the original wars generally knew better and tried to avoid that path.
Until WoD that was JUST Garrosh and that Blademaster that "Fails" him in the Divine bell quest.

>>46149101
>Until WoD that was JUST Garrosh and that Blademaster that "Fails" him in the Divine bell quest.
Well, the guy who convinced Krom'gar to drop the bomb on the Druid school and murdered a Tauren was brown, so there's him too.

File: NELFED.jpg (951KB, 2750x1834px) Image search: [Google]

951KB, 2750x1834px

>the sheer size of the Night Elf Empire

Neat

File: towelknight.jpg (16KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 225x225px

>>46148995
My main is a paladin and honestly, most of the relevant paladin sidekicks aren't much to look at. So it's a choice among Yrel, Liadrin, or Tirion. Yrel will probably hang back in her timeline and the third option is probably slated for death in Legion.

It certainly doesn't help that personal ami did some art of her that sets my Assbringer a-stirring.

>>46149490
Is this fanart or does Blizzard really abide by the idea of Azeroth once having a Pangaea?

>>46149543
>does Blizzard really abide by the idea of Azeroth once having a Pangaea?

Yes.

>>46149518
link?

>>46149594
So there isn't "another side" to Azeroth? That is to say, if one were to sail from the edge of the Swamp of Sorrows to the East, they would inevitably end up running into Auberdine or something?

>>46149543
You've heard of this thing called the Sundering, right?

When the Well of Eternity exploded, ending the first Legion invasion of Azeroth, but also sinking most of Kalimdor's landmass to the bottom of the sea?

Because that's totally a thing that happened.

>>46149637
That's how it's always been.

>>46149637
Chronicle mentions it was the largest continent, which implies that there are others out there.

>>46149637
Nobody really knows what's back there, a long, thin continent of mountains formed from the sudden tectonic shift of the Sundering sinking and splitting Kalimdor maybe.

>>46149637
the Forgotten Sea is like the sea west of Westeros in ASoIaF: no one ever sailed around it because they never had to and everyone who tried never came back

>>46149690
>>46149695
Why didn't Admiral Proudmoore just sneak up on the orcs by taking the long way?

File: bad theory.png (21KB, 1152x648px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 1152x648px

>>46149637
You can blame the Titans and their autism for ordering worlds for that.

On a side note I personally expect Blizzard to pull an expansion or two from back there, especially considering the way Azeroth's climate seems to suggest we've only seen the Northern Hemisphere

>>46149690
>Nobody really knows what's back there
one or two future expansions' zones I'd guess

>>46149720
because assuming command of Theramore and annexing it into Kul Tiras was a key part of his plan

>>46149747
I think that maps a bit wrong, I think Pandaria is just south of the equator, with the southern tips of the eastern kingdoms and kalimdor nearly reaching it

>>46149720
Because he'd first have to brave an even MORE unknown sea (As dangerous as the Maelstrom was, it was a known quantity) then have to sail around an unknown continent to try and find some Orcs.

>>46149747
I think we stick PARTIALLY past the equator, though pandaria needs to be spun around so north and south are reversed... Though having the Yaungol on the east would also be bad.

Also it's hilarious how WRONG every titan and Legion map/globe is proven with each new expansion.

>Maiev in charge of jailing Illidan
>doesn't loot his corpse for one of the Moonwell vials
What a fucking shit warden.

>>46149637
No one that went ever came back.

Between the Forbidden and Veiled seas, lies the crossover dimension.

>>46149938
I was expecting it to be paradise. That is, where the Azotha could expand without running into trolls.

>>46149938
We ALREADY have a giant, interdimensional gateway just sitting there.

We don't need a whole half of the planet for a crossover.

>>46149992
All of these AU Warcrafts have been interesting, but this raises an equally interesting point.

What would be a genuinely decent crossover?

I propose Rise of Legends being pretty interesting-- there are already a lot of parallels. You have one faction of da Vinci-esque technocrats with a society like some of the Eastern Kingdoms and a tech-level like non-goofy gnomes; one faction of Arabian Nights wizards like a desert Dalaran; and one faction of high tech aliens that combine the Draeni with the Old Gods.

You have a crossover mechanism that is less asspullish than many, in the form of some kind of one of aVinci experiment gone wrong or some Couatl technomagic fuckery linking up with the Dark Portal... I feel like you could get some interesting stuff going on without it becoming about "well my franchise's spaceships could totally wreck your franchise's spaceships".

>>46150344
We're going to have a Crisis on Two Earths event more than likely that folds the two universes together.

>>46150417
I'm not a /co/ guy, how does that work exactly? Do the worlds get blended together piecemeal, or does new stuff just appear into the empty places of either planet, or what?

File: Civilization-Beyond-Earth.jpg (75KB, 620x350px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 620x350px

>>46150344
As far as "decent" goes, I can't help you.

But if you want a really dumb crossover, I gotchu covered fampai.

>Civilization: Beyond Earth
Embers of a dying world land on the same planet as the embers of a corrupted one.

Something about the Draenei interacting/competing with those factions just strikes me as interesting.

As an added bonus, there not much room for "MUH HUMANS CURBSTOMP" due to the whole colony thing. Hell, as much as they'd be trying to figure out the whole "magic and elements" thing i'd imagine everyone else would be trying to figure out their stuff.

I dunno, I just really like an objectively bad civ game, what can I say.

>>46149543
The well of eternity exploded during the great sundering, splitting the continent.

File: Twilight_Keeper_Exeter tab slot robe over armor.jpg (73KB, 577x647px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 577x647px

As much as I hate talking about the game mechanics over the setting, I wish there were player tabards that looked like this and let you see your chest slot.

>>46151617
Well I wish that Blizzard didn't change its lore to fit game mechanics.

>>46151788
And I wish Blizzard wasn't so bound by the MMO model that they have to orient their plot around yearly apocalypses, prolonging faction conflict without any real change in status quo, forgetting about smaller plot threads until they inevitably get corrupted, and overall focusing on a handful of "Main Characters" instead of fleshing out the world.

I mean, I get it. That's the sort of storytelling that makes sense for an expansion based game.

Doesn't make it good.

How awkward is it going to be with the scourge teaming up to fight the burning legion?

>>46151871
from TFT to Wrath the Scourge was the best defense Azeroth had against the Legion, so not awkward at all

>>46151866
I'm just sick of them releasing novels as primary sources of new canon that turn every single main character they focus on into fucking horrible mary sues.

File: picard-facepalm.jpg (23KB, 921x606px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 921x606px

>>46151866
>That's the sort of storytelling that makes sense for an expansion based game.
Just once, I'd like for there to be no world-ending threat. Just an expansion based on exploring strange new lands and discovering new life and civilizations. Exploring Azjol-Nerub would be nice. Or maybe shedding some more light on the Qiraji. Or, hell, more Caverns of Time shenanigans.

File: azerothglobe.png (23KB, 1152x648px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 1152x648px

>>46149793
same. this has always been my take on the map, with the equator running through Stranglethorn (jungle) and Silithus/Ungoro/Tanaris (desert and rainforest)

File: 1443375753939.gif (678KB, 680x803px) Image search: [Google]

678KB, 680x803px

>>46151871
As far as everyone else knows, it's just the Knights of the Ebon Blade. A heroic, if somewhat suspect, organization that uses usually dark means to fight a worse foe.

>>46151926
>tfw no South Seas expansion based on discovery, adventure, and racing Naga to ancient artifacts

>>46151896
Which really only made sense when the legion had a good reason to fear their own deaths, hell even WC1&2 make very fucking little sense if all demons have no worry about dying in Azeroth.

>>46151935
In that image it's running through stormwind and 1kneedles but I get what you mean.

>>46151926
WoD has singlehandedly ruined the concept of Time travel forever.

>>46151926
>releases Inscription
>doesn't have us going around Northrend finding forgotten Vry'krul runes to reconstruct the Titan alphabet to find new spells of power

>releases Archaeology
>doesn't release dungeons to give us an Indiana Jones feeling specifically FOR Archaeology (ie having a skill requirement to enter a dig site that's loaded with traps)

I don't know if they made any professions after that, but with so much potential wasted it makes me sick.

File: Beauty of the Jade Forest by chaoyuanxu.jpg (934KB, 900x2237px) Image search: [Google]

934KB, 900x2237px

>>46151926
Early Pandaria was very much like that, though with a bit too much Faction-conflict.

Still, I adored exploring while semi-shipwrecked.

>>46151971
I like how they made archaeology a pain in the ass to skill as you leveled, so it served more as a reason to go back and explore zones you'd already seen superficially

>>46152006
Pandaria was ruined by Blizzard jerking off over Spec Ops: The Line too much

File: Ordered Azeroth.png (2MB, 1100x733px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1100x733px

>>46152032
>Pandaria was ruined by Blizzard jerking off over Spec Ops: The Line too much
What?

We don't commit THAT many warcrimes.

>>46152075
Normally I'd say that the interior of a continent THAT big should be desert.

But then I remember that Pangea didn't have the blood of the World's Soul bleeding out of it, covering everything in magical energies.

>>46152075
>violence is so bad, stop killing things
>also go get me 20 bear asses
any time a Sha shows up feels like they tried to steal the "enjoying fake violence makes you evil" schtick and then cocked it up because it's Blizzard

>>46152075
>>46152123
The annoying thing is how the lakes, rivers and much of the coast are all the fucking same as post-Sundering.

So how the hell does fighting chaos fucking work?

The Cadians do it all the time, right? So do they get whole sale executed everytime CSM decide to fuck with them? If a guard regiment accidentally gets wrapped up in a Chaos conflict are they autofucked?

>>46152178
Despite the near-copyright-infringing nature of early Warcraft, it's not quite the same as Warhammer.

Novels are about as bad, though.

>>46151971
That would be pretty swell, but Blizzard had been moving away from that sort of questing for a LONG time. Seeing a bit of a return to class quests come Legion, so that's nice.

>>46152230
Wrrroooong thread...

>>46152146
I HATED the Sha. They were like this god awful, half-assed
>well, we have to have some mindless cosmic evil-for-the-sake-of-being-evil enemy this expansion, but it should be Asian-themed? What's evil in asia
>idk bad feelings or some shit

>>46146447
he doesn't

he makes the doorways fit him

>>46152343
playing Pandaria as the Horde is godawful
>all the side villains are completely fucking irrelevant
>the main villain is your own faction leader
why even fucking bother, there isn't a single good thing about Pandaria other than the Klaxxi, and you kill them too

>>46152146
I never really got that feeling. I mean there was a bit of it in the Sha of Pride encounter but that's about it.

>>46152399
Throne of Thunder and the Mogu were pretty nice. I'm kinda biased towards Trolls though.

>>46152404
nah, you get it when the Sha of Doubt gets introduced and when you kill the Shas in Shado-Pan Monastery too

>>46152343
Man, it would have been cool to have something more inspired by Chinese history or literature instead of generic "evil magic BBEG threatens world." Warcraft of the Three Kingdoms would have been the tits.

>>46152418
A few spooky ghosts try to trashtalk you, that's it.

File: doom_doors_are_for_peasants.jpg (163KB, 1208x619px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 1208x619px

>>46152346
pic related

>>46152343
I don't know how they mismanaged the long-dead yet writhing remains of an abomination so potent that an empire had to collectively take up drinking, meditation, and passiveness to just to avoid their influence.

But hey, they managed.

>>46152407
The Mogu should have really had a major presence beyond "vague ancient beings that are slowly waking up".

To sideline something with that much potential is near criminal.

>>46152432
I'm not sure Pandaria has any central government, leaders, or factions able to muster an army. Which is odd, considering they used to have an Emperor.

The whole continent is in some kind of interregnum, and I think has been since the
Mists went up.

>>46152399
>there isn't a single good thing about Pandaria other than the Klaxxi, and you kill them too
And what a shame that was. I hear that was all based on their original plans for Azjol-Nerub. I don't think the Mogu were too bad either.

>>46152466
Didn't hey have a Panda emperor on the Timeless Isle?
Yeah, the lore there was pretty fucked all over the place.
But at least the landscape was mostly pretty.
>>46152528
>I don't think the Mogu were too bad either.
I liked the Mogu too but they were pretty underutilized as a legitimate threat. Too much sha blobs.

>>46152441
>>46152542
Well, this is a Warcraft Lore and RPG thread. Who cares how poorly they were utilized ingame?

What matters is if there's anything salvageable in the idea that someone could work with. Do you think you could make the Sha or Mogu work as something other than hamfisted moral messages or generic enemies?

>>46152601
Sha? Not really.
Mogu? Absolutely.
Mogu just really needed to do more than just stand around waiting for you to come kill them.

File: 1456590067032.jpg (20KB, 575x323px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 575x323px

>the kaldorei forms a small nation
>their society advances in slow but gradual pace
>Queen Azshara rises to power
>super-expansion of previous nation

The night elves went like "We have a hot and smart bitch commanding us now...let's rock!".

>>46152659
The fact that their capital was located at a font of nigh-limitless power probably helped.

>>46152399
The Pandaren themselves were pretty neat, I was expecting them to just be a joke race like goblins but Blizz took them surprisingly seriously.
And Pandaria was gorgeous to look at.

>>46152432
Fuck yes, something like this.
Especially since Blizzard seemed to make a point to make the Pandaren Chinese and include "representatives" of other major East Asian civilizations
There's so much folklore they could have drawn on, but instead we get...bad feelings
I was hoping we'd at least get to see Pandaria torn in half by the Horde & Alliance Cold War-style

>>46152466
From what I can tell (the campaign I'm working on is based around Pandaria), the only really authority beyond the local level is the Shado-Pan. The logic behind this seems to be "Well blah blah peace and balance and harmony so they've never needed a government because they all just meditate and get along because if not the sha gets them," which is just silly.

>>46152656
This

>>46152769
Pandaria is also vibrant enough east of the wall that they have not had major resource conflicts. Combined with their dominant philosophies of harmony and "Live and Let Live" they didn't really need much.

Shit, Garrosh basically lauds the absurd amount of untapped resources throughout the expansion.

>>46152656
>Sha? Not really.
Well, I've never really taken the time to think of how to do the Sha right. I suppose one could explore their effects on a society and the measures they took to prevent strong emotions.

Honestly, Pandaria should be something of a repressed hellhole that only looks good on the surface. Sure, all the panda people are singing and smiling, having fun parties with lots of food and drink to drown their worries in, never seeming to let anything get to them and generally lazing about. Of course, it's all just a grim necessity to combat the Sha.

All of their media and news should be strictly controlled to avoid discomforting their audience, with any troublemakers being quietly removed from society before they can disturb the peace. Public protests would be banned, as would be any display meant to provoke outrage or concern. Anyone who dares question these measures should be locked away for spreading Doubt.

The Pandaren themselves should be trying very hard not to think about it, as getting all anxious about it would be disastrous, which makes it very good that they have plenty of high quality breweries and love to drink copious amounts of alcohol.

The Sha should be like a festering sickness right below the surface of their superficially idyllic world, and one that they're slowly losing the battle against as their defensive measures whittle away at their own culture and people and give rise to the very emotions they seek to prevent. It should be all of the bile they think they've safely locked away but in reality has only been building up and ready to explode, all of their repressed fears and rage suddenly rushing to the surface as they just snap under that pressure and go berserk. Every time this happens the Shado-pan should move to clean it up and gather up all of the witnesses and recondition them, as they too could be at risk of Sha-infection after witnessing such a disturbing sight.

>>46152927
Maybe not quite that grimderp, but the idea can work.

>>46152927
That's the problem with the Sha, that society would be completely nonfunctional. Any society that repressive is going to invoke fear and doubt, which is exactly what it's trying to avoid.

tl;dr the sha are a stupid idea

>>46153044
>>46152927
>>46152959
>tfw Pandaria wasn't the post-apocalyptic log of a society destroyed by trying to repress the Sha, while the Alliance and Horde revive them by fighting the Fourth War right over their resting place

>>46153044
>that society would be completely nonfunctional.
Maybe in the longterm, but I'm sure there are plenty of societies which keep a close eye on their citizens for dangerous behavior, lock up troublemakers, and keep a tight control of the media so they can project the image that all is well.

>Any society that repressive is going to invoke fear and doubt, which is exactly what it's trying to avoid.
Which is why it should eventually backfire in an inevitable explosion once it all grows too great for them to bear.
>>46153071
>Pandaria wasn't the post-apocalyptic log of a society destroyed by trying to repress the Sha
Well, they haven't had an Emperor for thousands of years and haven't accomplished anything new or really built anything in all of that time.

>>46153144
Right, but in that case, the Horde & Alliance should be stumbling across the inevitable backfire, a nation completely torn to shreds by the Sha.

>>46153185
Oh yes, but I think the Sha work best when they mostly just accentuate what's already there and make it manifest. They should really be more of a curse than a variety of enemy.

We could have Sha-infused rioters, revolutionaries, soldiers, and all sorts of fun stuff like that. Desperate panicking civilians attacking whatever they feel is to blame for what's happened to them. They would still be acting pretty similarly without the Sha enhancing their tendencies, but the Sha just dial it up to eleven and twist their forms to better reflect their current mindset. Anger and rage gives them tearing claws, fear gives them defensive armor or speed, and so on.

>You'll never see an alternate universe Azeroth ala WoD, where the human nations never had to face the orcs and have to face an alternate invasion of the Burning Legion.

>>46153291
That is certainly preferable to big angry blobs that say "Sha" to be stabbed repeatedly.

>>46153451
Well, as far as we know, AU Medivh is still alive and kicking and still possessed. So we very well could see them later on down the line.

>>46153451
>you will never the AU version of yourself

File: tumblr_mdr09mzsR51qbt7zto1_1280.jpg (1MB, 1227x1078px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1227x1078px

>>46153604
Speak for yourself.
Just play a draenei (and hope your AU self didn't get killed).

Also, this Sha is truly my bane.

>>46153604
>not wanting to fuck the gender swapped version of yourself

>>46154360
>needing your other self to be gender swapped

>>46153451
You know it would just end up them invading MU Azeroth and you'd end up wit a redo of WoD except in AU Azeroth fighting against Iron Alliance or whatever.

>Terenas
>tearin' us

>http://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiras
>During the Cataclysm, the island was shifted out to sea by shifting tectonic plates:[6] both the land's and the city's current whereabouts is unknown.
Pirates and privateers expansion when?

>>46146003
what about Ogres? What about trolls? There is a huge number of "joke races"

>>46146239
warhammer wasn't super cereal though Age of Sigmar is.

>>46145126
Tyrandale is CHEATING! Priests can't equip Bows!

>>46155336
How are ogres and trolls joke races?

>>46155384>>46155336

Trolls are not a joke race they are pretty serious even if they talk funny accents.

Ogres always had the stupid brute astethic that talk "Me no know how talk proper!" That and having two headed ogres that have the eternal running joke that the two heads always argue on retarded stuff.

There are plenty of NPC joke races tough murlocs, gnolls, crab people etc. Heck Pandaren was joke race since Warcraft 3 until they got their expansion. Because Panda Samurai is the fursona of Sam Didier.

>>46155448
>Be Samwise
>Like to draw 80's weebshit and pandas
>Like oh my glob pandas everywhere
>People start nicknaming you 'panda'
>The running gag makes it into Warcraft, but everybody knows it's silly
>Fanbase is all hype for Panda faction
>Everybody at the studio is utterly surprised, but okay, let's start coming up with plans!
>The time has come for Samwise to leave his mark on modern fantasy
>Management wants you to butcher your weebpandas and make them that other famous but barely understood azn culture
>O-okay, no biggie, it's still got cool martial arts and eastern philosophy-
>Dreamworks publishes film about clusmyfat chinese panda wanting nothing more than hang out with the cool kids
>Normalfags who never played any Warcraft before WoW accuse blizzard of outright stealing the idea from dreamworks and only associate childish humour with it
>Samwises legacy is forever sullied by corporate greed and unlucky circumstance

He did not deserve this. No man deserve's this.

>>46155448
I always like the way two headed ogres were portrayed as being stupid simply because the two heads won't agree on anything, but when they do you get an incredibly focused and powerful mage that will stop at nothing to achieve whatever their goal is and I'm surprised how well they managed to translate that aesthetic into a MOBA when they made Cho'gall co-op

>>46155678
F

>>46155244
>End of Legion xpac
>Get ambushed by pirates
>Get knocked out
>Wake up and find out our artifacts were stolen

>>46155151
>tearin' us
>not Tearin' Ass

Step it up kouhai

>>46155903
Speaking of Terry Ace, it just occurred to me that he essentially declared himself dictator over Lordaeron when he got the nations to form the alliance. Dorfs and Fuccbo- I mean elves were more or less just auxiliaries, but the nations agreed to leave command to Terenas' crown, even if just on paper.

Lucky for them did Terenas step down after the second war and let everybody be a sovereign unto themselves.

So for an AU - What if Evergreen Terrace never yielded supremacy and maintained his political grip over the nations?

>>46155725
>I always like the way two headed ogres were portrayed as being stupid simply because the two heads won't agree on anything, but when they do you get an incredibly focused and powerful mage that will stop at nothing to achieve whatever their goal is and I'm surprised how well they managed to translate that aesthetic into a MOBA when they made Cho'gall co-op

Pity he gets eaten alive by Greymane and other guys who do % based damage.

I recently played a game with some Cho-Gal players where one was blatantly new (And playing Gal) and they also didn't have voice chat.

So we got the chat full of Cho and Gal yelling at each other for messing up the bomb or not hitting ult at the right time.

>>46156438
>but the nations agreed to leave command to Terenas' crown, even if just on paper.
and then command was delegated to Lothar because he was the only person all 6 northern kings + Anasterian Sunstrider and the dwarves trusted, which was the only reason the Alliance formed at all. If he tried to form some sort of dictatorship, Lothar or Turyalon would just remove him

>>46156438
Ironically enough it could actually lead to an earlier, stronger response against the Scourge. There was a decade between the end of the second war and Thrall's great escape, and in that time the various other nations would increasingly chafe at Terenas' imposed leadership. Renegade orcs and an all-consuming undead threat would be just the sort of thing that could be played up to quiet dissent.

>>46156460
>So we got the chat full of Cho and Gal yelling at each other
Really helps immersion.

>>46156487

Oh yeah. The two friends and I on voice chat were laughing our ass off.

Especially when Cho started retreating from a battle (3v1 is not good odds even for Cho'Gal) with Gal yelling that Cho that they could totally take them.

>>46156507
my favourite thing I've seen was a Cho who kept getting dived on and then popping his block right after Gall started ulting so he got one or two shadow bolts off and then lost it all, then they would die right after

we lost, but the impromptu roleplaying in chat was worth it

>>46155725
>>I always like the way two headed ogres were portrayed as being stupid simply because the two heads won't agree on anything, but when they do you get an incredibly focused and powerful mage that will stop at nothing to achieve whatever their goal is and I'm surprised how well they managed to translate that aesthetic into a MOBA when they made Cho'gall co-op

Having 2 players control a two headed ogre sharing a body is something they already wanted to do with Wow but they just couldn't get it to work properly so it just stayed an April Fool's joke.

>>46155678
Furries deserve everything bad associated with their shit, Sam is no exception! His art is badass tough I cannot not deny that.

File: ShootTheMedic.png (147KB, 231x335px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 231x335px

>>46156539

Ouch. I'll admit, I've had one of my best games ever with a Cho'Gal.

Mostly because the enemy team didn't understand 'Go for Morales' when I was playing her.

Then the newbies in our group started talking about how totally OP Morales is and how they totally wanted to play her next.

>>46156602

Why would you go for Morales? She's got terrible damage and no crowd control. Clearly she's safe to ignore!

>>46156616
>you idiots, stop hitting Muradin and go for Morales
>Muradin jumps into our backline and kills or chases off our support while Morales leads everyone else to tunnel vision deaths
every fucking time

>>46156625

I've laughed my ass off several times at half a team beating on Johanna and ignoring Morales/Assassins.

>Yes, please. I'm sure you'll be the one to finally kill off a Safeguarded Johanna. Please ignore Jaina.

>>46156575
Pandaren as per Samwise were never about yiffcancer. They were the culmination of his love for 80's samurai films, heavy metal and designing big bulky brute characters, topped with his favourite animal.

His could've been a legacy of anthro fantasy alike the beastmen of chaos, where furfags may rage and tear at it in attempt to infest it with their headcancer, but ultimately the canon would have had them a respectable addition to the modern fantasy roster.

He did not deserve having his baby this mutilated.

>>46156762
hey, this is what happens when your biggest market tells you to go back on your vision for nationalistic reasons.

>>46157098
Fucking chink government is the reason why we can't have nice things, like slutty chinagirls and not have a good man's legacy destroyed.

>>46153451
>you'll never see the human kingdoms fighting one another as the burning legion sows discord and chaos among them before buttfucking them into oblivion

>>46157299
its less about the chink government and more about the suits at activison-blizzard

>>46157312
>you'll never see a war between Human Kingdoms at all

Doesn't even need to be a huge war, just at least one ever mentioned.

>>46157312
>You'll never try and stop each nation from fighting each other, and uncovering the many nathrezim that had infiltrated the higher echelons of each nation.
>You'll never try to find out what happened to the remnants of the Guardians of Tirisfal, only to find they've become an occult group of warlocks that loyally serve Medivh
>You'll never be able to fight alongside one of the few groups that were entirely unhindered by the invasion of the orcs, which are the Dark Iron dwarves

>>46157355
Lets just cut to the chase here.
>You'll never see multiple human Kingdoms
Lordaeron, Arathi, and Alterac are destroyed.
Gilneas is worgen now and currently occupied, so they're tied into the greater alliance instead.
Dalaran is too busy being flying wizards to actually manage a kingdom anymore.
Kul Tiras is just flat out missing

Now there is only one human kingdom and that kingdom is Stormwind.

File: ConfrontingSha.jpg (503KB, 1600x1067px) Image search: [Google]

503KB, 1600x1067px

>>46156762
>topped with his favourite animal.
Apparently the backstory of pandas being associated with him amongst his friends is that while drunk and/or stupid, one of his friends insisted that, due to him not at all minding the cold, he was a panda.
>"Don't you mean, like... a polar bear?"
>"Nahhh, dude. You're a panda."

Maybe because a polar bear is a metric ton of "fuck you" whereas pandas are dopey dumbasses.

>>46157342
Considering this was done way back in TFT, long before the Activision merger it was just the Blizzard suits.

And they had a point too, Japan isn't really known for pandas, china is.

>>46157506
no, pandas in wc3 were clearly japanese. The RoC easter egg was japanese themed. The hero had both chinese and japanese aesthetics.

>>46157411
Pandas can't fuck shit up like any bear. They're just too chill to bother.

>>46157551
TFT was nearly full China, and I don;t remember actually seeing a Pandaren in RoC, just a Pandaren relaxation area.

>>46157405
There are still a few "seeds" that could grow into Kingdoms, given a few generations

>Morgan's Militia
>Order of the Silver Hand (unless it gets BANSHEED.COM)
>Valgarde

I'd throw Theramore on that list, but you know how it is.

>>46157588
someone posted the pic of the beta brewmaster which was as japanese as it got.

>>46157608
Yes but that would break the general MO of "One race, one nation", so those will be minor independents or subordinate to Stormwind for the exact same reason that Arathi was quietly Forsaken'd and Dalaran continues to sort of just float around being wizards despite formally rejoining the Alliance.

File: 180px-Twopandaren.jpg (17KB, 180x231px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 180x231px

>>46157506 >>46157551
Chronologically speaking, the very first hint of Pandaren is a hidden location in the second scourge mission in RoC. pic related

What is true is that, by the time they added the Brewmaster, the look was already much more leaning towards chinese themes. But at the time, popular culture in the west kind of didn't really make a difference between china and japan. Both were about slant eyes, martial arts and philosophy.

It was only at around Mists of Pandaria when they went full-on china. So there was technically still a lot of leeway in their design, potentially continuing with the mishmash of japanese and chinese themes.

>>46157619
That was early TFT beta or something.

>>46157657
Well, that's the joy of RPG settings.

>>46157717
Ah, you're right, when you discover the relaxation area that image DOES flash on the screen briefly, I totally forgot.

>>46157717
>It was only at around Mists of Pandaria when they went full-on china. So there was technically still a lot of leeway in their design, potentially continuing with the mishmash of japanese and chinese themes.
But by the time MoP came out it was common knowledge in the West that China and Japan fucking *HATE* each other.

>>46157405
Talking entirely about historical / AU azeorth where all the shit hasn't happened (yet)

>>46157767
True, but I thought we were bemoaning how there would never be an official game about a conflict between human kingdoms; that was the reference I was arguing from.

In the case of AU versions of the settings then there can be all kinds of differences. For example, in my own personal thoughts on what should have happened after WCIII I believe that Arathi, which was written as one of the strongest human kingdoms in the old alliance, should take prominence rather than the still ruined/rebuilding Stormwind.

>>46157751
I'm not trying to refute the reasoning behind the change. If I was a savvyy buisiness fella with my white colla I'd prolly try my best to not offend a huge potential market, as well.

What I am trying to say is that, without the marketing decisions in mind and Samwise left to freely spin his lore and designs around, we'd probably have received a more 'original' take on anthropomorphic pandas that wasn't so heavily ladden with Kung-Fu Panda associations.

>>46157812
I wholeheartedly agree.

A few threads back I posted some poorly established plothooks about a Warcraft IV that continues from where TFT left off and I had the human campaign start in Arathi/Stromgarde.

It is, I think, the only logical kingdom to actually want to continue the alliance. Thoras was pretty much in favour of coming together and Terenas' biggest supporter; Stromgarde wasn't an isolationist nation and still maintained a large military force; and finally, most Lordaeron refugees came to or at least through Stromgarde, so that's a group of people that could very well be rallied into a fighting force to retake Lordaeron's soil.

Gilneas can fuck-off.

>>46157937
>Gilneas can fuck off
Can and did; that's what the wall was for.

Also, how goddamn on the nose is Greymane as a name? Did they come up with that after everyone turned into a werewolf, or before?

>>46158052

Before.

>>46158052
>Did they come up with that after everyone turned into a werewolf, or before?
15 years before. Someone must have figured it make a fitting irony

>>46157937
I did somewhat like how the Chronicles book explained that Strom lost power since it was deliberately founded in relatively barren territory so Forest trolls couldn't stage easy ambushes, and once the Troll Wars were over the various outlying city-states got more power from their relative fertility, eventually dissolving the Kingdom of Arathor.


Also it's sorta funny how Daelin was willing to disregard Theramore's independence when his own nation was basically founded as a colony of Gilneas that went rogue.
>>46158052
Long before.

At least as early as Day of the Dragon assuming he didn't show up in the WC2 manuals.

>>46158109
>At least as early as Day of the Dragon assuming he didn't show up in the WC2 manuals.
he did, he was named before anyone in the Kirin Tor was even

>>46157937
If you really want to cement the legitimacy of Arathi as the inheritors to Alliance leadership, a political marriage between Trollbane and Calia Menethil would be a good idea. It would also strengthen Arathi's claims to the non-zombified bits of Lordareon from "opportunistic land grab from the corpse of a dead kingdom" to "Protecting the lands of our new combined royal family"

>>46158109
>Chronicles

i'm still waiting for my damn copy. Fucking amazon delivery said something about 19th to 25th.

Some of the more recent stuff I disliked about Chronicles: moving the already too close to modern day War of Three Hammers another 70 years closer to the Dark portal date.

It went from 300 to something like 230.


Honestly, they just overcompressed Dwarven history in general.

>>46158250
Wow that's autistic

>>46158317
Hrm? I just feel like they've messed with dwarf Lifespans quite a bit to fit what seems like quite a few generations between Dagran the Summoner and the Dagran we kill in BRD.

I guess dwarves just have standard human lifespans or very slightly longer now?

Dwarves not waking up till after the Troll Wars also seemed a little dumb.

>>46158438
>I just feel like they've messed with dwarf Lifespans quite a bit to fit what seems like quite a few generations between Dagran the Summoner and the Dagran we kill in BRD.
>I guess dwarves just have standard human lifespans or very slightly longer now?

First off, the War of the Three Hammers has been 230 years prior to the opening of the Dark Portal for a while. That's not a new development.

Second, just because the timeline changes doesn't mean Dwarven lifespans have.

Unless you've seen any info that directly retcons the fact that Muradin was 220+ years during WC3, then nothing about the lifespans has changed.

File: AvatarSuperTest.gif (420KB, 150x150px) Image search: [Google]

420KB, 150x150px

>>46158558
A big problem with the Dark Irons is that as seen at the Atramedes encounter in Blackwing Descent, is that several players can see the spirits of eight Dark Iron thanes, including Thaurissan the summoner. Also, there has been no discrepancy made between a Thane and the Emperor of the Dark Irons, so we can't understand if there has been several emperors that have ruled before Dagran Thaurissan, or if that they were the leaders of their respective subclans and each have met their own end.

>>46158558
So Muradin was born only ten years after the War of three hammers?

That would mean Magni was probably born before or during the war.

Seems somewhat strange to me.

>>46158686
Some of them have archaeology relics that seem to indicate they did rule the whole clan.

Others like Anvilrage and Angerforge seem like subclan leaders.

File: Sha_of_Despair_TBoS.jpg (678KB, 1200x673px) Image search: [Google]

678KB, 1200x673px

>>46153505
Well, active manifestations of Sha could still exist with fluid forms, but I think that should be around the point where the curse has built up enough to infuse the very land or the people or wildlife had degenerated to the point where their forms lost all consistency. They'd be more the byproduct of the curse rather than the main threat behind it, unless the land had really gotten fucked over.

>>46158861
I think I'd also like to handle the lore explanation in a rather simple manner. The breath/remnant shreds of spirit of Y'Shaarj seek hosts as part of their impulse to regenerate and restore themselves. At lower concentrations they're almost unnoticeable, but at higher concentrations more of the spirit gathers and expresses itself. The forms of the infected may even liquefy and flow together.

Should the infestation reach critical levels, the entirety of the dark god's spirit might coalesce and gather enough hosts and form a new vessel through which the complete will of Y'Shaarj would be reborn.

I noticed something.

The Horde has almost no noteworthy priests.
The Alliance has/had Anduin, Velen, Alonsus Faol, and Benedictus.

I get that most Horde spiritual leaders are shamans, but I still think there is room for undead or blood elf priests, a Loa-worshipping troll, or maybe even a Huojin pandaren. No gobs.

Zabra Hexx doesn't count, as he never appears in-game and is almost completely irrelevant.

>>46151935
Except deserts don't form on the equator.

Azeroth's climate makes absolutely no sense. We discussed this in one of the earlier threads; trying to make Azeroth's geography and climate make sense requires a, enormous amount of manipulation.

>>46152123
Especially considering the ridiculous number of mountain ranges.

>>46152151
Yeah. And it's not like this is going to be lore relevant - they simply did it so you could look at a map and go "hey, there's X". And it makes the Sundering itself seem really weird, since it seems to have basically just sunk a lot of land within a rough radius and left the rest intact; in which case, why are there any coastal beaches at all? It should all be cliffs, and 10k years is a long time but not long enough to erode them to beaches.

>>46159180
Vol'jin

>>46159180
>No gobos
>Implying the glorious light shining off dem shekels doesn't empower them with holy light
>Implying their faith in money isn't as strong as other people's dedication to their religion

>>46159180
Faol is a Forsaken now, though he's not exactly Horde-loyal.

The issue with Troll priests is that Trolls blend Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, and Priest together in different quantities to make Shadow Hunters.


>>46159188
>Except deserts don't form on the equator.
There are a few near-desert bands around Lake Victoria in africa.
>>46159188
>Yeah. And it's not like this is going to be lore relevant - they simply did it so you could look at a map and go "hey, there's X". And it makes the Sundering itself seem really weird, since it seems to have basically just sunk a lot of land within a rough radius and left the rest intact; in which case, why are there any coastal beaches at all? It should all be cliffs, and 10k years is a long time but not long enough to erode them to beaches.
It sunk it in a way that left the insides of most of the new coasts concave enough to reach down to the sea.

>>46159188
To be fair, most zones don't have a coastline. They have mountains and then a sheer drop to the water.

Well, a lot of the Eastern Kingdoms zones, at least.

Have Orcs had elemental shamanism back in Draenor or they only discovered it once they entered Azeroth and contacted Azeroth's Elementals?

>>46159447
that got fixed in Cata, most of the Veiled Sea coast has actually gradient now, and the Forgotten Sea always did

>>46159534
They always had elemental shamanism.

They connected with the Azerothian spirits and just sort of carried on.

>>46159188
>>46159447
I'm trying to think of places with coastlines on the interior.

Durotar, Dustwallow, parts of the Barrens (And even then mostly just small coastlines under greater cliffs), of all places Tanaris, North of Azshara there was apparently a decent amount of inhabitable coast according to TFT.

On the eastern Kingdoms, Westfall has a cliff with a beach at the bottom, Stranglethorn has a lot of coast, there's southshore and the Wetlands, plus Silverpine, Gilneas is mostly cliffs but had some flat seaside land before most of it got sunk in Cataclysm.

There's a lot of smooth gradient in the Boring Tundra, Grizzly Hills and Dragonblight's southern coasts, but most of Howling Fjord is cliffside, though it has some decent beachland and islands under the cliffs...

>>46159542
I think we're talking about the inner coasts created by the Sundering.

>>46159447
Yes, which I admit is another pet peeve of mine. Yet the Dustwallow Marsh and Durotar have smooth coasts.

>>46159648
Yeah, it's very inconsistent.

Maybe I should restart my "realistic Azeroth" project.

>>46159573
So how did the elementals work in Draenor? Did they not have their own elemental lords who waged war against each other?

>>46159750
They had leaders, but they did not fight and sought peace.

>>46159750
As far as I understand it, the elemental planes exist in all realities, so there's a set of elemental spirits on every planet that exists in reality.

Azeroth, in that regard, appears as a special case where the elemental spirits became so enraged the manifested in reality and began to fight against each and everyone that they encountered.

There's at no account of elemental lords on Draenor that I know.

>>46159194
Yeah, he's basically a multiclass Priest/Hunter.

>>46159750
Elemental Lords apparently only form "naturally" on planets with World-Souls because the World Soul upsets the balance of Spirit and Decay by absorbing some of the world's Spirit.

With low Spirit elemental get violent and restless and then Elemental Lords form. (I used to think the Elemental Lords were created by the Old Gods to control the lesser Elemental spirits, much like how Gul'Dan created Draenor's first "Elemental Lord" with the Cipher of Damnation in order to cut shamans off from the elements, but the Elemental lords apparently predate the Old God arrival now.

Generally other than the four peaceful "Elder" elementals, Draenor's elemental spirits only take on shapes if they're angry about something, hence the name "Furies" (Or maybe that's just the Orc name for them because the elements are frightening to a tribal people.

>>46159879
Priest/Hunter/Shaman/Rogue, with a little monk after is recovery in Pandaria.

>>46159856
Not exactly, Elementals are generally NOT confined to specific planes unless the Titans are imprisoning Elementals.

>>46159750
The reason Azeroth's elemental lords are raging assholes is because of the Old Gods.

>>46159856
Would the elementals at the Throne of the Elements in Nagrand count as elemental lords? Gordawg, etc.? The quartet are the chief elementals on Draenor, stronger than the others, but I don't know if they're explicitly in charge.

>>46159959
The Old Gods didn't create the Elemental Lords. In fact, the Elemental Lords initially fought them, devastating the Black Empire before being defeated.

Source: Some summary of Chronicle.

>>46160036
I know, I even said that my old assumption was wrong in that very post.

File: image.jpg (171KB, 480x680px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 480x680px

>>46160244
My bad.

>>46159188
>Except deserts don't form on the equator.
Well, they can, but it requires specific conditions (lots of rain shadow). Best place for deserts to form is somewhat north and south of the equator, where you have a warm climate and persistent areas of high pressure that make rainfall rarer.

On the look of pre-Sundering Kalimdor, I've seen a WC3-era map that shows EK and Kalimdor, including the outline of the sunken landmass. The big difference, though, is that based on that map EK and Kalimdor were not connected (the sunkern part of Kalimdor doesn't extend very far east of the Maelstorm, aside from a narrow peninsula whose tip pokes up above the water near the southwestern part of EK (that would have been the island where Thrall met the Darkspear trolls).

So, why DID Karazhan's corruption only spread into Duskwood and not north into Redridge or south into Stranglethorn? (It's hard to tell if it spread into the Swamp of Sorrows since that has plenty of its own corruption)

Could something have been warding the northern border of Deadwind Pass?

>>46161694
I figure its corruption is just slowly moving into the surrounding area, like the Dark Portal.

>>46161694
Maybe the mountains on the way prevented it? Is corruption blocked by geographic barriers?

So, new "Upright" dire troll skeleton of the old model, or the older hunched version?

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=9268/smolderthorn-berserker#comments (The model viewer has the new skeleton and the first screenshot below it has the old one)
>>46161812
There are plenty of mountains between Duskwood and the Crater itself too though.

>>46161860
Maybe those mountains have a strong ley line the corruption can't cross, or are otherwise occupied by some spiritual force or creature acting as an impediment.

>>46161908
Well we don't know the transmission vector of the corrupting magic. It may very well be bound to some sort of particulate like magical fallout, and is just being carried by dominant wind patterns.

>>46161860
Upright is where it's at.

This is probably another thing where they went overboard in transporting the troll-look from W3 to WoW: Trolls never really "slouched" but were mostly in a crouching stance, especially the Headhunter-units. Also the trolls from W2 were standing completely upright.

>>46162048
Which is doubly strange because it's called DEADWIND valley, which seems to imply the whole area is a landbound doldrums.

>>46161908
>Maybe those mountains have a strong ley line the corruption can't cross, or are otherwise occupied by some spiritual force or creature acting as an impediment.
THe Tower IS apparently a Leyline nexus so that could be it.

I'm going with a few different reasons if I write a modified setting for an RPG. Probably mostly going to say it's.

>>46162105
I sorta liked the Dire Trolls slouching a bit, it made them feel meaner, more feral, and "Faster" in a knuckle-running way. (And in the case of the Smoulderthorn berserkers the "How much of a factor is the Slouch" question made it a bit less obvious how much smaller they were than the Spirestone Ogres who were each the size of a fucking house.

I like a mix of both personally.

>>46162155
In the case of Dire Trolls and some more feral tribes, I can agree.

But the general, run-of-the-mill troll should actually have a proper posture. They are people, and they are people with a history that dates back thousands of years. All the awe and venerability that this fact should inspire is overshadowed by them always hunching over.

>>46162532
Trolls evolve to match their environment pretty fast, though, right? I could easily see trolls living on the coast like the Darkspear spending a lot of their time bent over the side of a tiny boat waiting to spear a fish, and having it slowly introduce a natural bend to their spine.

Certainly trolls in general should be upright unless there was a palapable reason for them not to be, however, and as >>46162105 mentions, in WC2 the forest trolls in fact were.

>>46159380
>Hunter and Rogue blended in shadow hunter
Only of you are 5 years old an unable to look behind names. They are a mix of Priest (the darker variant obiously) and Shaman.
There's nothing backstabby at them, so rogues are right out.
Likewise no extraordinary weapon fixiation, so hunter is done for.

>>46160622
I am aware of this. It's not even rain shadow, it's the monsoon cycle; that's why Somalia (for example) is mostly dry.

I know which map you mean. That also shows Kalimdor as much smaller than the EK, though, which I don't like; I love the idea Kalimdor is this big unexplored (to non-Night Elves) wilderness.

File: Outdated Azeroth.jpg (134KB, 430x329px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 430x329px

>>46162838
Is this the map you guys are referring to?

>>46162610
Let's not look too closely at the mmo game variants for this, okay?

A Shadow Hunter is, first and foremost, based on the troll specific practises of voodoo, which combines aspects of Shamanism (communication with spirits), priesthood (adhering to a code and set rules of virtues) and Arcanism (channelling the otherworldy energies through will rather than cooperation with an otherworldly entity).

This is just the mental aspect of a Shadow Hunter. They are also shown to be very capable combatants, focusing on stealth and precision to kill their enemy. I would agree that rogues definitely aren't the only ones capable of stealth in the lore, so they kind of fall out of the roster. However, the basic combat style of Shadow Hunters still incorporates aspects of the Hunter, being capable of range and potentially close combat.

So it isn't far-off to say that at least those four classes appear mixed in that particular form.

>>46162610
Other than the gag about "All weapons are Hunter Weapons." most if not all the Shadow Hunters we've seen have been archers or used throwing weapons.

And in a few instances they use stealth, I believe the Zul'farak the Shadow Hunters used stealth, as do some of Rokhan's support in WoD use stealth too.

Anyone do RP on vanilla private servers? I never got into it until Burning Crusade, and the setting seemed to have been the best for that type of thing.

>>46163121
there are some on nostalrius, look up the rp forums

>>46162105
>>46162532
>>46162607
I think for forest trolls a slight hunch makes sense, they're massive Summbitches and need to sneak through the forests and whatnot, essentially on par with elves for woodcraft.

File: 1930403_1076329392409828_3557352571175772295_n.png (504KB, 851x445px) Image search: [Google]

504KB, 851x445px

So, what does everyone think about Old Gods?

>>46163837
They were cool in their original version where they were an azeroth-only thing, but mostly wiped out and didn't even play that much of a role in modern Azeroth. They had that feeling of something truly mythic with them. Now with the retcons from chronicles, they've become just another level of mook, according to the retcons posted here.

Some fan-speculation back in the day actually interpreted them as the original Troll gods, I believe, but that was mostly non-canon fanwankery.

>>46163837
Is that N'Zoth revealed? Or Y'shaarj or what?

>>46164024
It's a problem with a lot of franchises that go on longer than they should. Mythology that's set-up with deliberately mysterious aspects that are only mysterious because they're kept in the background is eventually too heavily included and loses the mystique that made it interesting.

Current 40k is another good example, which has been confirming/denying a lot of the fun strange things that stirred speculation, such as the ambiguity of some Primarchs. Hell, even Cypher has apparently had some firm establishments recently, and mystique was pretty much his whole character.

It doesn't happen to all long-running franchises, but I am pretty sure it's largely a result of fanboys taking the reigns from the original creators and implementing their personal views on the setting, and/or earlier writers running out of ideas.

>>46164030
No idea. If I had to guess, I'd say it's N'Zoth.
>>46164024
I'm not sure of I would call them mooks, but the nerf was built up for some time. Pandaria had it so that Y'Shaarj was slain by a mere Titan watcher, which was now retconned so it was at least a true Titan who killed him.

While the Old Gods may never live up to their former power and mystique, I think there's still something to be said for these cancerous agents of anti-life traversing the cosmos to remake it, and all the life it contains, in their masters' image.

Despite the Titans' now overwhelming power, they were surprisingly resilient and able to put up a good fight. Even though they were just a fraction of the power of their foes, the servants they created were able to go toe-to-toe with the greatest of the Titans' creations. In a sense, they must have been more efficient and effective at creating life than the Titans themselves. There was no way they could have won, since the Titans could have just forged more soldiers, but they did pretty good.

So, I no longer hold them as these great supreme powers, but now they're still a pretty tough underdog.

>>46164024
They were implied to exist on other worlds as early as TBC (Harbinger Whatshisface's speech about how "we span the universe, uncountable as the stars" and "no force on this world, or beyond, can bend our knee, not even the mighty Legion", and the Arakkoa attempting to summon...something that used C'tun's model).
Being clearly inspired by Lovecraft, the Old Gods being present around the cosmos was pretty much expected. What the Chronicle really changed about them was turning them merely into the minions of the Void Lords (aka. Older Gods), rather than a mysterious force of cosmic evil.

File: voting-bg-left - Copy.png (205KB, 621x623px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 621x623px

>>46164558
>something that used C'tun's model
It's literally named "Summoned Old God".

Currently I have mixed feelings about the retcon. Sure, the Old Gods are no longer THE ancient cosmic evil, though they still certainly are ancient cosmic evils, but their apparent power level has been dropping for some time.

At this point, I'm just glad to know that four mere mountains of flesh were able to hold out so long against the forces of seven living worlds. They were outnumbered by entities far more powerful than themselves, yet they still managed to hold out for thousands of years.

>>46164718
I quess they felt necessary to implement a new Ancienter More Cosmic Evil since they gave the Titans a huge boost in power and the Old Gods had repeatedly gotten their asses kicked by a bunch of mortal adventurers.

I still prefer the older fluff where the Old Gods and Titans were more evnly matched. C'tun was supposed to have killed a Titan but was almost destroyed in the process, and when the players fight him he's still heavily weakened from the damage sustained in that fight.

Also, did they ever explain that huge ammonite-headed skull with a ginormous sword sticking out of it in Darkshore? Given the size and appearance, I always assumed that was one of the Old Gods, slain in some battle against a Titan in the ages past.

>>46164980
In Cata, it was one of the Old Gods servants. Soggoth the Slitherer if I recall.

>>46164980
in vanilla they implied he was an Old God but never said, in Cata it turns out he was just a superpowered giga-Faceless that got mirked and left a cool corpse

File: Soggoth_aerial.jpg (427KB, 1904x1071px) Image search: [Google]

427KB, 1904x1071px

>>46164980
>Also, did they ever explain that huge ammonite-headed skull with a ginormous sword sticking out of it in Darkshore?
He's "Soggoth the Slitherer" and just a powerful Old God minion. He was originally killed by twenty Stone Giants and you kill his avatar in a level twenty quest after you stop the Twilight's Hammer from properly resurrecting him.

>>46165068
In Vanilla it was outright stated that it was the corpse of an Old God.

File: Maiden of Virtue.jpg (765KB, 857x1200px) Image search: [Google]

765KB, 857x1200px

>>46165529
Where? And questgivers are not omnicscient.

>>46165608
The WoW manual called it an Old God and when you approached it in Vanilla, the game gave the area as "Old God Skull."
It's just a plot point that Blizzard forgot about until years later and retconned it into a "powerful minion" shortly after reducing the number of Old Gods from 5 to 4.

>>46165744
>The WoW manual called it an Old God and when you approached it in Vanilla, the game gave the area as "Old God Skull."
It was always called "The Master's Glaive" in english releases to my recollection.

>>46163837
W3 (and Vanilla) > Chronicles >post-TBC

My favourite version was back when they were just a spooky footnote in the lore, occasionally appearing as antagonists (TFT UD campaign, AQ) but not much more than that.

I severely disliked the way they were built up during the WoW expansions (even if enjoyed the Storm Peaks), especially at the expense of the legion.

Between the two developed versions of the Old Gods, I prefer the new stuff from Chronicles a lot more than Twilight of the World stuff from post-Vanilla WoW

>>46164980
>I still prefer the older fluff where the Old Gods and Titans were more evnly matched.
While I don't want to say this was necessarily a retcon, the old War 3 manual never really implied the Old Gods proved a challenge for the Titans. In many ways, Chronicles is a return to the old War 3 balance of power between Titans and the Old Gods

Anyone play on Wyrmrest Accord? Looking for more folks to RP with while I gear up for raiding

>>46166959
make a new thread and ask

New thread up HERE
>>46167274