/cof/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

potatoes of darkness

>>46134633
>What's your favorite minor template that hasn't been updated to 2e yet? If you were in charge of an update to 2e what would you add or change?

I'd say Second Sight, but then I remembered that the psychics ARE updated, and the low mages were always too shit to like.

>>46134633
I think Sleepwalkers have a pretty interesting time.

They occur naturally, they have no powers of their own, they have no innate conneciton to any given Supernatural being, and yet they're much in demand by Mages as friends, confidants and employees.

Do Wolf-Blooded Tells carry over if the Wolf-Blooded in question is used in the construction of a Promethean?

>>46134801
I would have said not.
Becoming a Promethean is probably as far as you can get from Father Wolf and Luna, as far as acquirable templates go.

Whatever the dudes of Inferno where called

Gehenna when??

>>46134832

2004

Do we have a download for the full/fixed release of CofD?

>>46134633
>/cof/

You know there's supposed to be a d at the end of this, right

>>46134633
>What's your favorite minor template that hasn't been updated to 2e yet? If you were in charge of an update to 2e what would you add or change?

MUH PURIFIED

Hell everything from Immortals, even though I know we're never getting any

Gay werewolves this thread, please.

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>>46134838
Post-Gehenna chronicles when??

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>>46134889
Not really a thing werewolves care about in 2e Forsaken, is it?

Anybody else watching Outsiders and thinking that it looks just like how you'd imagine a werewolf pack? Everyone is related, hairy, growling and dirty and they scare the shit out of the locals while defending their sacred mountain from the avarice of a coal mining company.

>>46134944
>Not really a thing werewolves care about in 2e Forsaken, is it?

They die their fur pink and their death rage is FABULOUS!

>>46134858
>Chronicles of Fagness
I don't see any d.

>>46134944
While it may not be a way to get around crazy spirit abortions anymore, 2e is mpreg edition, so now your gay werewolves can still contribute to growing the pack.

More seriously, the themes of the game fit so nicely with usual gay romance narratives that it's even better at it than vampire or changeling.

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>>46134956
Careful with that stereotype, it's vintage!

>>46134988
>Neil Gaiman, Dresden Files, Vampire, Castlevania, Sailor Moon, tons more.

I don't mind models posing with stuff like this, but now it's just obvious posing.

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>>46135011
Yeah, she's a professional fetish model / photographer. That said, she's also a vintage ca/tg/irl that was posting her changeling characters on deviantart when she was 16, and that shoot was done in her home, with stuff she and her husband had laying around.

>>46135031
That's a LOT better. When there are as much stuff as in the first picture, it just feels like they were grabbed just to be props.

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>>46134968
If you don't see any Ds in fagness, I'm not sure what to tell you.

>>46135031
How many ways can you say SLUT?

>>46134720
Linear sorcerers were great. Making thaunaturges shitty mages with nasty paradox problems and weak powers was a real disservice. Something equivalent to the blasphemies and sacramemts book would be wild.

>>46135101
Salope

>>46135131
thought that was bitch

>>46135139
Multiple meanings. Like putsin.

>>46135031
>husband permitting his spouse to do something so whorish

C U C K
U
C
K

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>>46135069
Yeah, not even the best picture from that set.

Anything new about Changeling the lost? I saw a preview last month and I was getting vaguely hyped. Might be my favorite line.

>>46135218
They released most of the rules for open playtesting a few weeks back.

Was the War on Terror an Assamite conspiracy?

>>46135170
Its [CURRENT YEAR], men no longer have exclusive rights to being whores and sluts.

>>46134806
>>46134801
I don't see why not. I mean, many of the Tells have a physical as well as spiritual component to them, and you can be a Wolfblooded Vampire (or even potentially Changeling*). You can even *BECOME* a Wolfblooded as a Promethean, through Mad-Eyed Hunter (though Stew suggests against it, unless you want to)
http://theonyxpath.com/the-giver-of-gifts-1-werewolf-the-forsaken/

* I like the idea of someone getting faerienapped and people realizing something is up when the Fetch is no longer a wolfblooded. I wonder how the Fetch would rationalize that to itself?

>>46134981
>More seriously, the themes of the game fit so nicely with usual gay romance narratives that it's even better at it than vampire or changeling.
How so? I mean, I support gay werewolves, but Vampires are all about romance and STIs and human contact, and changelings are literally faeries.

>>46135170
>This meme

>>46135218
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9HTbTc08O4IdnZwTExxOFVyM1RiMjdiU0NqU2hpX2NUVmRr/view

>>46135362
Ventrue blaming it all on the Assamites.

>>46134850
>Do we have a download for the full/fixed release of CofD?

Seconded!

>>46134850
>>46135440
https://a.uguu.se/llzsex_ChronicleofDarknessAndornWoD2e.pdf

>>46135540

Thank you very much.

>>46135396
>Ventrue blaming it all on the Assamites.

HAQIM DINDU NUFFIN!
HE WAS A GOOD ANTEDILUVIAN BLOOD MONSTER!

>>46132003

>Then you're defending shitty game designer, Freddie. Their entire approach is emblematic of being completely fucking unable to make a setting hang together, so they simply said "fuck this" and squirted a long brown stream of their shitty gospel onto paper. At least the separate owod game lines tried.

Treating CofD as a unified setting is a bad idea. Ideally, it should be treated as a series of separate games all set in a world where the everything is the same as our world save for the existance of the splat you're playing. Attempting to unify the settings was oWoD's biggest mistake, and while it's easier to do in theory for CofD, the games don't really get anything out of it.

However, if you'd like a CofD game where everything does hang together properly as you want, Beast is always available.

>>46135396
Werewolf is more about feeling Other because of something you have literally no control over, without it being strictly tied to trauma like changeling. The dom/sub angle of pop psych wolf dynamics, the creation of tightly knit support groups, the masculine hairy dudes constantly getting naked and angry. The game lends itself to more typical gay male fantasies compared to vampires straight female fantasies about gay men. Id be a little more elaborate if I wasn't on mobile.

>>46135631
CofD is a toolbox. That means the unified setting is a slider or spectrum, not a switch.

>>46135648
Huh. That is a theme I hadn't really thought about.
>The game lends itself to more typical gay male fantasies compared to vampires straight female fantasies about gay men.
Hey, some of us want to be twinks blood bound and subservient to our ̶D̶a̶d̶d̶i̶e̶s ̶d̶o̶m̶i̶n̶a̶n̶t̶s̶ Regnants.

>>46135218
That cat looks rather bemused.

>>46134801
No, they're spirit things, a promethean doesn't have the stuff to empower it

>>46134956
That's more of a WtA thing, since some of them don't even need to dye their hair

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>>46135711

>>46135798
Any word on Hunter 2e? When can we see info on Ascending Ones?

>>46135812
http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/chroniclesofdarkness/hunterthevigil/

>>46135631
Even the singular settings don't hang together right.

The Aegis Kai Doru, the Ascending Ones and one of the Knight orders should go out, drink, fuck snd make their endowments have a baby. Maybe mix the Lucifuge instead of knights.

Fucking Lucifuge. Did they ever expand on The Lucifuge? The woman who is inmortal and somehow holds 665 others in thrall with Castigation?

>TFW you have a really good working relationship with the hotel where you do your LARP, but your playerbase has increased by half again during your tenure there and you need to move on, and you send them the email informing them of such and to arrange a face to face/callback with their management.

I think with Wolf-Blooded, the only Splats that don't use the Tells directly are Mummy and Demon.

I have a VtR character in 1e that had accumulated 30xp. How do I convert him to 2e?

>>46136773
Taking a Wolf-Blooded's Tell as part of your Cover kinda makes sense, actually. At least the visual aspect of them, if they have one(claws/strange eye color/etc).

>>46137186
It's when that Tell appears on the rest of your Covers that you have a problem.

Clow cards is basically a Grimoire right? But how do you explain said cards having sentience?

I recall that some OPP people (DaveB? Chris?) compared werewolf packs to street gangs and mage society to university academic departments.

What's is vampire society supposed to represent or compare to? What about the other 2e splats?

>>46136757
That's a very specific feel, are we supposed to relate to this?

>>46137214
The Tell would be specific to the Cover, though, just like eye/hair color, assuming it was just the visual aspect of the Tell

The actual Tell itself, if you could take it with a Pact, would probably also be Cover-specific, and go away the moment you switched Covers

>>46137362
Oh,well at least I was correct in my assumption that one of the Arisen would not get a Tell directly, right?

>>46137362
You can't barter for supernatural abilities. In fact if you try to get Cover from someone with a Supernatural Tolerance trait (i.e. Power Stat) you take Agg equal to their Power. A Demon can't get a Tell in the same way they can't get Supernatural Merits like Telekinesis. They can make deals, but they don't get those special traits.

Actually, I don't think they really get *any* Merits...

>>46137425
So they need to call up one of their Inferno namesakes to get them

>>46137313
Probably nothing.

>>46137401
Right. Unless the Arisen was a Wolf-Blooded before becoming one of the Arisen, but I'm not sure how possible that even is. Or if the Judges/Sekhem would even ALLOW a Wolf-Blooded to become one of the Arisen.

>>46137313
>and mage society to university academic departments

Of course Dave said that, he loves them. What they actually are is student governments; bureacratic with too many titles and not enough decisions, all motivated purely by self-interest and smugness, all addicts of some sort or another, and constantly meddling in people's lives when they just want to be left alone.

>>46137486

Dave did mention that in 2e Consilia are now far less an executive government, and now more a arbitration and alternative dispute resolution forum.

The government functions are now more relegated to Order Caucuses and larger Convocations.

>>46137425
>A Demon can't get a Tell in the same way they can't get Supernatural Merits like Telekinesis.

I'm not doubting this, but where is this stated? I can't recall it from reading the Demon books.

>>46137597
The Supernatural Merits section explicitly says you have to remain human(non-supernatural) to have them. You lose them the moment you stop being human, though you keep the dots b/c Sanctity of Merits.
They're in the Demon core book explicitly so you can give them to Stigmatics


Personally, I'm hoping we get a future Demon book with new Supernatural merits that are more likely to be possessed by Stigmatics than those in the CofD core book, like we did with Angelic Numina

>>46137668
Hmm. So how will the Advanced and Epic versions of them work? I thought that kind of merits was only for supernaturals.

>>46137597
Well like I said, you can't really get ANY merits.

>>46137741
You can, just not any that actually affect you and your capabilities; taking someone's reputation with a pact will still give you their Status, it's just attached to whatever Cover you patch it into

So how do Demon exploits/angelic incepts compare? Or are they just 'faction swapped' versions, like seer/mage magic, just different names?

Power wise compared to the rest of the nWoD?

Chronicles of Fagness

I think Chronicles of Darkness is the wrong game for the setting, it should be called "The Mage Chronicles" because it's all about mages, mage is the only template that matters and all the other ones are extremely minor ones.

>>46138160
>like seer/mage magic, just different names?

But... Seers and Pentacle have the same kind of magic, and the same names for everything they do.

>>46134720
It's like they took all the worst choices from vampire - everything has a downside, nothing is wholly good - and then dropped the power level even further to compensate for the whole mortal option. Except for some perception and 'luck magic' it's all whoring yourself to spirits. Psychics get disbelieved, and.. well, reality bending horrors? Yeah, okay. Those are good, and come with their own story based downsides. Don't mind them.

I'd kind of like to see some sort of abyssal (Capital A Abyssal, as in Scelestus) mysticism workable by sleepers. Or just a sorcerer translation guide. Whatever.

>>46138160
Exploits are explicitly supernatural powers that Demons can use, Incepts are meta-buffs Angels get that boost their Numina in various ways

EG there's an Exploit called Hellfire that turns a single shot from a firearm into something brutal and borderline Infernal-seeming
And an Incept called Units adds the Angel's Rank to the number of targets its Numina can effect

They're completely different, really. Exploits are closer to Numina than anything, with Embeds being I guess non-numen uses of angelic power like Influence, in comparison

>>46138285
Yes, I know. It was the closest thing I could think of off the top of my head. They just call them different things with story different ways of accessing them. Pentacle mages draw from the watchtowers and their sympathy there, while Seers etch their name on the Exarchs thrones - or are directed to Watchtowers by the Exarchs.

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>>46138256

What is the xp conversion from 1e to 2e? What if I want to update my old character.

>>46138345

Seers Awaken, sign their names, and have sympathy with the Watchtowers is the exact same manner as their as their Pentacle and unaffiliated counterparts.

Seers simply choose to serve the Exarchs out of ignorance, fear or reward. Seer Prelates develop an additional connection with particular Exarchs, and receive additional benefits in return for greater service (and terrible nightmares).

>>46138345
>>46138601
There is a myth that Seers awaken differently, and one of the ideas in the Chronicler's Guide plays on it.
Generally speaking, they are mages just like their Pentacle and Nameless companions.

>>46134633

Sekhem sorcerers should basically just be better, Mummy-flavored Thaumaturges. I'm hype.

>>46138746
Thaumaturges are 30 flavours of shit though. Making them better means making them over completely.

>>46137055
Roughly speaking, divide it by 5.

>>46137313
Vampire society is basically high school but literally EVERYONE is an asshole.

>>46139032
So high school?

>>46137313
Demon is the espionage community. But book espionage, movie espionage, tv espionage, not 'make friends and sit in a bar or watch signal intercepts' espionage. Less charming james bond espionage.

What would you want from a fan-made Dark Era?

I've got a few ideas bouncing around in my head, but want to know what needs to make it in for it to be worth reading.

>>46139617
Pointing out what is special for the supers during that period.
It need not just be a nice time period, but it must also be interesting from the focus-super in particular.

>>46139617
The Big Three, at least, in the Wild West

>>46139761
What's the appeal with the Wild West? I've never understood that.

>>46139701

My main concept is 1960s America Mage. I want to focus on how things are spiraling out of Awakened control (magic doesn't seem newrly as impressive when Sleepers can erase cities from existence and walk on the moon), as well as heighten the tension in the Pentacle-Seer conflict. Sleepers are testing every boundary possible, trying to tear down the old social order, reinvent sexual norms, expand their consciousnesses with drugs, place their souls in alternative religion, etc. the old symbols that defined the world are being replaced with something new and wild.

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>>46139761
This.

>>46139934

Being able to shoot brown people.

>>46139984
If that's the biggie, the Iraq setting of Forsaken should be better.

>>46139966
>I want to focus on how things are spiraling out of Awakened control (magic doesn't seem nearly as impressive when Sleepers can erase cities from existence and walk on the moon)
The Free Council, at least, would be overjoyed by this.

As far as they're concerned, Sleeper accomplishments ARE magic, and now they can do things that were previously only accomplishable via more blatant "calling down the supernal" magic, free from the influence of the Abyss.

>>46140092

Maybe that's the setting hook, then; a growing rift between the Diamond and the Free Council, while thr Seers attack both via aggressive recruiting and espionage. Sleeper politics divide the Awakened just as much as paranoia over fear of infiltration does.

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>>46135711
>>46135648

Personally I really like the idea of a strong, confident alpha paired with an uncertain young wolf trying to prove himself. I have such daddy issues that I go crazy for the idea of getting a little approval and affection from a strong, primal male authority figure that proves his dominance over me.

Vampire is harder because you know that sooner or later it's blood and betrayal and drug use.

>>46137313
>>46139336
>>46139032

I believe Vampire is supposed to be representative of high-end organized crime and Changeling akin to support groups for abuse victims.

Signs of Sorcery first open dev blog is up:

MAGE SIGHT RULES:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9YzBRVWpGYzNFZ0U/view?pref=2&pli=1

>>46140092
That's old Council fluff, back when the Vulgar/Covert distinction existed, and factions believed what made a spell Covert or not was if Sleepers could accomplish it without Magic.

Now theor main jam is being people who think mortal works affect the Supernal, rather than the other way around.

>>46142712
>being people who think mortal works affect the Supernal
That's still a very valid interpretation of "Humanity and its works are magical".

>>46142586
http://theonyxpath.com/signs-of-sorcery-mage-the-awakening-open-development/
I want all of the material spoiled here, pretty much without exception.

It's like Dave read my Mage wishlist and then made a book about it.

>>46142712
"Sleeper accomplishments are magic" isn't old fluff, it's one of their three core tenets.

>>46142586
I wonder how difficult it would be to use Mana to deliberately make a mystery more Opaque.

>>46143701
Well when you fuck up scrutinizing you contaminate the Mystery with your Nimbus and the next guy has to scrape that shit out so he can concentrate on the original Mystery.

I imagine it wouldn't be hard to do that on purpose.

>>46143808
That's what I mean, it seems very easy to raise the Opacity, even with the easiest of means.

Also, I'm curious how the Deep Information thing works out in play.

Alright, I have a question, no, a need, almost one bordering desperation. It's also related to the now only 1% remaining and existing oWoD players.

You see, I am working with this group, it's Vampire with a touch of crossover with Mage. Why "touch of"? Because ultimately I ended up working the only other Mage solo, and have not been able to join them all in a full group yet.

So, my question is, for you WODers: Is WOD meant to and able to be played as a party game? Wasn't WOD literally describing itself as "personal horror, everyone's against you, you are on your own and even you're your own enemy?" How can it work in a party style like D&D which has a description of "Yey we're all heroes who are together and must be to slay creatures and be awesome in friendship!".

>>46144164
I would say WoD works in both a party setting but allso in a persistant IRC setting al'lah Sanguinus or Original Sin. But the latter two really needs good STs. From the core I would say party play or one on one works best.

>>46144164
WoD was meant to be personal horror and the examination of what makes a monster different from a human. But, then you have to come up with modules and wankery to sell so the writers fell back on the old tropes.

>>46144164
Something wants all of you dead, and in classic horror movie fashion, it picks off stragglers from the group first. Worse the thing hunting you comes back to life when you kill it not a day later, and it is making minions. The powers that be looked at it and said "NOPE!" and locked their doors to wait for the storm to blow over.

Everyone is afraid, they have put their personal grudges aside(officially) to band together to keep the city from falling apart. The prince has signed a treaty with the hierarchic to resolve this issue, no bad blood shall keep the two groups from working together to solve this problem!

Now send the idiots out to distract the monster while the sheriff and the Arrow clean up this mess.

What kind of monster? Potency 7-10 horror(accentually awoken by the mysterium, but shoosh that is a secret!) ridden by a Strix holding a mage artifact.Also give it the immortal dread power.

Or alternatively,

the cold war is over *wink* and to show everyone we mean it we are pooling our resources together to fight a common foe! we totally aren't scheming behind each others backs!

>>46144164

>playing oWoD

>>46144958

Dumb CofDposter

So I'm trying to design a ritual/spell that'll allow the PCs to call up a horrific beast from the beyond.
How the hell would I stat an Eldritch horror for WoD? I'm thinking the ritual is basically a birthing/fertility rite that gives something nasty from another reality a physical form to rampage in and so on.

>>46145370
>How the hell would I stat an Eldritch horror for WoD?
Spirit rules?
No stats?
Those fancy monster rules from the CofD book?

>>46145370
the "Birthing the God" rules from the Circle of the Crone Open Development posts for Secrets of the Covenant?

Idea for VtM game I'll soon be running.

The Ventrue Prince of Berlin was killed during the assault on Berlin in 1945. His Spymaster, the Nosferatu primogen, assumed the role of Prince, being the senior member of the Cainite community in Berlin.
The Malkavian primogen stepped up and officially accused the Nosferatu of foul play, considering that the Spymaster boasted to have "a fly on the wall in every corner of Europe", yet his flies ceased their characteristic buzzing in the nights leading up to the assault.
The Spymaster initially shrugged the allegations off as typical Malkavian madness. When more grew suspicious, including most of the Ventrue and the Brujah sheriff, he made a statement that his flies did not stop buzzing but the late prince, mad with power as Ventrue tend to be, refused to listen to the warnings given. The Ventrue and most of the other primogen aren't satisfied with this answer, arguing that the Spymaster should have notified them when his advice fell on deaf ears.
The Malkavian primogen makes a bid for assuming the role of prince, being one of the elders of the city and primogen of the largest faction.
The feud carries on until in 1961 it is decided that the best course of action is to split the city, and thus began construction of the Berlin Wall.
The first mandate of the Malkavian Prince of West Berlin is to exile all the Spymaster's "flies" (the Nosferatu) from West Berlin. The Gangrel follow the Nosferatu to East Berlin.

The players will be working mainly in West Berlin, and will be tasked by the Prince to prove the guilt of the Spymaster.

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This is how I Mastigos

>>46147138
You're ...a moody princess?

>>46147200

Anyone can be a moody princess with the power of the Supernal.

>>46137356
Nah, more just 'the lament of an ST'. I get good discussion about LARP here a lot of times, so I just kinda post about random LARP-related stuff in addition to regular WoD discussion.

>>46143153
>http://theonyxpath.com/signs-of-sorcery-mage-the-awakening-open-development/

No mention of spirit fetishes created by mages in Chapter 3. I guess they're not sufficiently Supernal or receive adequate treatment in the new corebook.

>>46144164
Give them a lot of downtime to pursue their own goals.

>>46144970
>not playing oWoD
Someone hates fun.

>>46145552
Ah, that actually sounds really cool, but wouldn't East Berlin be under the influence of the Brujah Council?

Anarch>Sabbat>Mortal>Camarilla

>>46149256
This is correct

>>46149079
Spirit fetishes aren't Supernal at all.

That's just Mages aping something Werewolves can do.

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>>46149520

>>46149256
Sabbat, really? Irresponsible Embracing at its' finest.

>>46149770

More like FUN Embracing!

>>46149079
werewolf has all the rules you need for fetishes

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So, joining a game of Hunter: The Vigil, and planning on playing an exterminator who's stumbled across some rather strange stuff when on the job. "That ain't a possum" and all that. However, I'm coming across a problem with picking a Profession for him. Any suggestions?

>>46150889
Isn't the profession of an exterminator "exterminator"?

Or you could have him be a animal control professional that removes dangerous and wild animals from suburban properties.

>>46151040
I mean mechanically, in the Hunter: The Vigil core book.

I originally thought laborer, but, realized that was geared toward craftman work.

Perhaps just make one, where the asset skills are Science and Animal Ken?

>>46151076
That would work. Seems pretty reasonable to me anyway.

>>46142326
The original vampiric myths - or their development to the modern day, not counting corpse shrinkages, etc - were from biting and the sexualisation thereof in victorian eras.
>>46143378
Best explanation I've seen for this is that if the world is a sheet of fabric, with supernal symbols underneath pressing through to make an outline that is very rough (like, a key pushed against it kind of looks like a key from the bulge, but loses a shitload of detail and sensory queues). Mortal symbols press back from the top against the supernal, but way more faintly.

How the fuck it works with the god machine, even the ones claiming the GM is a giant mystery play for an 'old god', whatever the fuck that means in wod where old gods sit around the shores of the ocean ouroboros or sulk in the shadow, I don't know.

More work from Claire Redfield. She's on fire.
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/850309-bloodline-avakyr-the-muses

>>46152944
No, I'm pretty sure she's just replicated the toreador from owod, given them the 'dark angel' motif from the ham beasts wet dreams.

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>>46153001

>mad old worlder spouting bullshit

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>>46153047
>implying anyone who calls the obvious author post is mad or spouting bullshit

>>46153001
Could you explain that for me? Idk shit about masquerade.

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>>46153212
The Toreador were artists, sensitive and alone. Easily fascinated, often set themselves up as art critics, a few of the more famous ones were great 'muses' through history. They were generally played by the worst of the owoders as gentle love and hugs solve anything - by the hambeasts mentioned in the posts. Lore wise, they were a big part of the catholic church because of their support for art, 'fallen angels' come to earth. A few gentle words from this fallen angel and you were good to continue doing what-the-fuck-ever.

So we have the Avakyr. Muses who failed despite seeking redemption constantly. They've got fucking wings, for the angel motif. They set out now not to save themselves, but everyone else, because they're a pack of stupid fuckups. Instead of being tortured artists, they're now the way they were most often played - people pushing others with gentle words to better themselves.

Attached picture is a fairly stereotypical example. Actually playing the way the clan was portrayed was the exception rather than the rule - see VV in Vampire: Masquerade - Bloodlines.

>>46153351
Ah, that screencap, a typical case of That Guy feeling proud of his antics.

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>>46153416

>>46153449
No seriously. I'd hate to play with his group, but being a disruptive element IS being That Guy.

>>46153491
Sounds like he wasn't actually disruptive until the second to last session. And pretty obvious about the problems his character had to anyone who wasn't there for the egomania.

>>46153416
Pretty much.

>>46153351
That really is just a That Guy calling other people That Girl. He intentionally ruined someone else's fun and did a PK "because it's what my character would do". He's as bad as all those dick ass rogues who steal from the party. If someone is going to be mocking other players and saying how shit their kind of fun is, he shouldn't be the kind of person you don't want at your table.

>"So you want to be a Malkavian with severe, violent gynephobia?"
"That's right, he's also a pedophile"
>"You do realize that half the group are women, right? Don't you think Lev might not want to associate with them in the first place?"
"Don't tell me how to play my character!"

>>46153525
He killed a PC without considering the other player. And then of course he brags about making someone cry, because she was a "ham beast" (I'm sure OP was just a perfect 10/10 zyzz clone). Good job. Ruining people's fun is something to be proud of. Totally not egomania.

>>46153537
So her fun is more important than his fun? And again, given that he lasted until the second-to-last session without any actual problems, that kind of puts into perspective how much of a problem he was.

>>46153550
Fun at the expense of other players is bad, anon. The best fun is gotten by playing TOGETHER!

>>46153550
Her fun didn't ruin his fun. If anything, her fun facilitated his fun (why have a flaw if you don't ever play it up) and then he beat her character to death.

Also, we don't know that there were "no problems", just that there weren't any major ones. He still made a character that intentionally didn't get along with what would normally be half the group.

If there are three elves in the party, taking "Hatred: Elves" is bad form.

>>46153559
Sounds like she was having fun at the expense of others, given that she had completely ignored what was clearly a big part of the character for her own shit.

Let's just agree they're both idiots and move on

>>46153567
Hardly. It can make for a difficult experience, but it can be done unless people are deliberately baiting. And she obviously did. She was either completely oblivious to the huge "HE CANNOT EVEN SPEAK IN YOUR PRESENCE" flag, in which case she was entirely self obsessed, or was deliberately trying to fuck with him by touching him. Dumbfuck or arsehole? Which?

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>>46153582
Why don't you suck my dick?

>>46153569
>>46153582
>>46153584
>She was either completely oblivious to the huge "HE CANNOT EVEN SPEAK IN YOUR PRESENCE" flag
That he had that in the first place is sort of the problem. How are you not getting that?

>in which case she was entirely self obsessed, or was deliberately trying to fuck with him by touching him.
We have only his word to go on, though. And if you tell a story and make yourself look like an asshole...

>replace the Seer-Pentacle conflict with the Assassin-Templar conflict

???

>>46153608
Except he doesn't look like an arsehole. You can't play a character who can't even speak to 50% of the population without making it obvious.

>>46153625
>Killed another PC
>Not an asshole
That is seriously one of the worst sins a gamer can commit in my eyes.

>>46153625
Or she just thought he played a misogynistic asshole, rather than an actually gynophobic one. I mean, even from his side it looks as if she tried to make peace.

>>46153609
I have the Templars in my setting. They are servant of the seers of the throne that can use artifacts that they call "Pieces of Eden". They also see Atlantis as the "First Civilization" with the Exarchs as "Gods" in Assassin Creed Lore.

I remember in the Imperial Mysteries book there was a few lines about vampires, werewolves and others having their own Supernal sponsors that interfered with attempts to change their template. Anyone seen anything similar to that recently? Or should I just assume there's a fuckoff huge strix sitting in Dis taking a nap?

>>46153648
She completely ignores him the entire game, then 'tries to make peace' with someone who has never said a word to her?
>>46153643
Then why do you even play games? If being your life is completely sacrosanct from other players no matter how much of a retard you are, why not just fuck around 24/7? Or do you just play 24/7 LG?

>>46153675
>She completely ignores him the entire game

Sounds like it's mutual.

>>46153675
Uh, I play games to explore stories and settings and overcome challenges. None of that means I should be okay with another player ruining my fun. My character's life should be completely sacrosanct from other players because THE PLAYERS SHOULD BE WORKING TO MUTUALLY CREATE FUN FOR EACH OTHER.

>>46153730
So you play nothing but LG who would never, ever break the law or set out for their own personal gain. I get it.

hey so how about instead of talking about killing ham beast player characters how about you guys all get your collective intelligences together and help me 1v1 a werewolf

>>46153761
Yes! White rooms! because that never brings out any problems in any thread, let alone a group of histrionic 'higher roleplayers'.

>>46153761
Better idea: Talk about the new Mage Sight rules.
We actually have something new to discuss, so let's do that instead.

I think they include too much rolling; at the very least, one roll per level of opacity.

>>46153787
ive never played mage
is it fun? it seems kind of to me like mages are just good people who do good shit, seems a bit out of place in wod desu senpo

>>46153787
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/One_Roll_Engine

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>>46153805
>mages
>good people who do good shit

>>46153742
There are so many flaws in your thinking.

You don't need to be Lawful Good to keep from ruining someone else's fun. Even if for some reason you're playing a Chaotic Evil character, you should not fuck over the party. Breaking the law for personal gain also doesn't require you to ruin the other players' fun. I've had like one instance of unnecessary and unwanted party conflict in my history of roleplaying. There are other people who've played much longer than I have who've got a similar ratio of "everyone had fun" to "being dicks to each other".

>>46153761
>>46153772
High powered anti-materiel rifle with depleted uranium rounds and/or HEIAP. Like this bitch >>46153814

>>46153808
That's not the problem.
No matter how well you succeed, you can't get more than one level down. No matter the mechanics used to roll, to get 4 levels of Opacity down, you'd need 4 successful rolls. (And then one to understand it...)

>>46153825
There are so many flaws in yours. Working together doesn't mean anything like what you're thinking. Did you eat a lot of lead paint as a child? It's the only way I can think to explain your cognitive dissonance.

>>46153742
Where do you read that in? All I see is that he wants everyone at the table to have fun. I don't see how that changes what you play in-game.
If you kill of a PC, you cut off their story. That's no fun.

>>46153825
ok so if I were in real life and not in the world of darkness, how would I find one of those?

>>46153831
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Two_Roll_Engine_For_Queers
>>46153844
It doesn't stop them from making a new one, and the way she was playing, she is clearly ignoring her story for his. You've got the two above going on about the differences between collaborative and competitive gaming, where she's just doing a gentler (sort of) version of 'fuck you I got mine'.

>>46153862
>It doesn't stop them from making a new one, and the way she was playing, she is clearly ignoring her story for his. You've got the two above going on about the differences between collaborative and competitive gaming, where she's just doing a gentler (sort of) version of 'fuck you I got mine'.

Yes. But her story ended because she didn't understand his.
This is a collaborative effort. Everyone should work for everyone's fun. The Lev-player didn't. From his descriptions, it sounded like the rest of the group worked together, just that he deliberately sat outside to sulk, metaphorically speaking.

This shit is almost as bad as mister Bombardini.

>>46153888
Then she shouldn't be fucking playing if she can't understand the very basic fact that touching the unstable madman who never speaks to women and stays away from them at all times is not a good idea. He didn't kill anyone in the team prior to that, and she didn't 'work together' for any fun because she didn't want to. She was having her fun. The lev player had his, and with a damn sight more attention to making sure others could than she did.

>>46153904
holy shit you guys are retarded.

>>46153918
Holy shit you're a stupid cunt.

>>46153842
In what world does what was posted imply the poster was "working together" with the other players?
He:
>Made a character that didn't get along with half the party
>Overreacted and killed another player
>Bragged about making her cry
How is this not a That Guy?

>>46153862
>the way she was playing, she is clearly ignoring her story for his
You don't even fucking know that. Again, we only have what that poster posted. And in his own fucking post he comes off as an asshole who took pleasure in ruining someone else's fun. She wasn't going "fuck you, I got mine", and even if she was, he escalated that and did even worse. You're making huge fucking assumptions because it was a "ham beast".

>It doesn't stop them from making a new one
It stops her from enjoying what she was doing. Some people actually enjoy their characters and see them as something more than disposable sheets of paper, and don't like seeing their story end in an unsatisfying way, like some asshole killing their character because he can't think of a more reasonable way to settle in-character conflict.
Nevermind that judging from the way he talked about it, he was clearly taking OOC feelings into it.

>>46153888
>This shit is almost as bad as mister Bombardini.
Tell me more. I'm assuming this is some /tg/ character like Mr Henderson, where it's basically "I'm going to ignore everyone else's fun and do something dumb and I'm a hero for it"?

>>46153904
Again, you're making a lot of assumptions here. You're assuming that she knew he'd beat her to death, for one.
Also, her fun didn't stop him from having fun. His fun stopped her from having fun. The two are not equivalent.
If my version of fun is taking a lighter to your character sheet in the penultimate session, that's not fun for you, is it?

>>46153926
Overreacted? No, that's actually a very minor reaction. He made a character that managed to 'get along' with the party for long enough for them to do their thing without any problems until she decided that she had to 'fix' the deep seated madness of his clan with the power of love and hugs.

Jesus christ. I'd forgotten how fucking stupid these threads were. It's as bad as watching the retard responding to the otherkin troll a few weeks ago.

Next you'll be saying she'd have to go meta to understand that touching him was a bad idea when ignoring that 'working together' as you complete dribbling dipshits put it requires metaknowledge instead of playing a character like a good roleplayer.

>>46153951
?

>>46153951
>Killing someone is a 'minor reaction'.
Again, you're making assumptions and you're taking the poster at his word.
EVEN IF you do that, he comes off as an asshole. EVEN IF you assume she was dense as a bag of hair, he was still an asshole. He removed her character from the game, upset her to the point of tears, and then bragged about it as if he did something cool.

>>46153761
Fine. Show us your sheet, and I'll try to help you.

Also, what power level werewolf?

>>46153787
Feels to me like change for the sake of change. What was wrong with the old system?

>>46153904
The correct answer would have been for his character freak out, maybe even hit the other persons character, but not murder her. I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt, but seeing as how he bragged about making another player cry I find it rather hard to believe he is anything other than a massive asshole. Someone who does that is not someone who I would want to game with.

>>46153787
I like that Prime Sight highlights things you can use as a Yantra. That's one of those things that's very video game but fits perfectly.

I also like that Dave does the usual "how you handle crossover is up to you" thing, which is something I like. Except when it comes to what other supers taste like to vampires. That just seems super neat and I want to know the specifics.

>>46154203
>I like that Prime Sight highlights things you can use as a Yantra. That's one of those things that's very video game but fits perfectly.

Yeah. A lot seems more game-y. Like reading range bands with Space (why not just use regular measurements? What's wrong with meters?) or Initiative with Time (Shouldn't that be Mind, by the way?).

It also bothers me that only Spirit mages can read resonance now.

>>46154225
You can read range bands and regular measurement. Also, why would initiative be Mind? I mean, I guess I could see it as "this is what they're thinking about doing", but that's more in line with an actual spell. For just Mage Sight it makes sense that you'd be able to see minor fluctuations that show how fast someone is going to act. I like these "gamey" aspects, because I love ludonarrative resonance.

Also, why does it bother you that Spirit Sight can read Resonance? That was true in 1e. Heck, everyone could read Resonance, because 1e had this weird way of handling Mage Sight.

>>46154263
>Also, why does it bother you that Spirit Sight can read Resonance? That was true in 1e. Heck, everyone could read Resonance, because 1e had this weird way of handling Mage Sight.

It is that it has been cut away from all other Arcana that bothers me.

>>46153787
>Better idea: Talk about the new Mage Sight rules.

Amen.

I think we've sufficiently discussed That Guy who intentionally creates characters that don't get along with most everyone else's characters in the group (and most NPC's) and then doesn't understand why then killing another PC and bragging about how it made that person cry makes him a irredeemable douche.

Now back to Mage Sight...

I hope other parts of the new corebook (or at least Signs of Sorcery) explain in greater detail the various perspectives each Paths views the particular Arcana using the Sight. For instance, some examples of how a Moros views Death Sight differently than a Mastigos or Obrimos would be helpful for storytellers and players in setting the tone and imagery when using Mage Sight.

Mage Sight, both Active and Focuses, also seems to overlap somewhat with the Practices of Knowing and Unveiling. I trust that the magic rules will make clear when Mage Sight ends and further investigation and revelation require actual spellcasting.

>>46154280
But that's where it belongs: In Spirit. Resonance is a Spirit thing. The other Arcana should never have had it in the first place, Spirit should have.

>>46154304
>also seems to overlap somewhat with the Practices of Knowing and Unveiling.
To be fair, they did in 1e too. Back then they were part of those Practices.

>For instance, some examples of how a Moros views Death Sight differently than a Mastigos or Obrimos would be helpful for storytellers

Will most likely be included in SoS

>>46154304
>>46154370

A Path perspective on Mage sight would be very useful.

Possible something like the way Summoners described the natures and forms of different Supernal entities each Path could Summon when influenced by non-Ruling. Arcana.

>>46154436
>A Path perspective on Mage sight would be very useful.

Considering Dave mentioning Aedes, I suspect that's a large part of Chapter 1 of SoS will be.

>>46154448
Aedes?

>>46154481
Eh. I'll just post the whole summary for chapter 1:
>Chapter One: The Supernal World covers the five Supernal Worlds, breaking each one down by how each of the ten Arcana appear to mages of that Path using their Sight. It expands on the 2nd ed corebook’s rules for Mage Sight, including a page discussing how they interface with the Investigation subsystem in Chronicles of Darkness. It expands the rules for Supernal Entities and how mages summon them, giving them unique dread powers called boons on top of their Arcana. Finally, it discusses Aedes, phenomena like Arcadia’s Thorns or The Primal Wild’s Singing Paths that affect mages of that Path using their Sight but don’t otherwise break into the Fallen World.

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https://youtu.be/PojGyYP5AB0?list=PLbpkF8TRYizaT6GfMcKBG-RoUOQ6BJRXp

Gaaaah, I want Neolithic Mage. I know it's not the same thing, but I want to play some tribal barbarian shit. I want fantasy WoD.

>>46154572
With some luck, it'll actually be out (for backers) on Wednesday.

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>>46154614
Seriously?!

>>46154666
Yes. It went to Paradox for final check-over last week. We'll see in like.. 12 hours if they are done with that.
If they are, backers ought to get Dark Eras on Wednesday.
A March release is more likely than not. Which is nice.

>>46154304

Yeah, about a third of Chapter One of Signs is just that - each of the five worlds, and what each of the ten Arcana look like within them, so there's a difference between how an Acanthus sees Forces and how an Obrimos does.

>>46154481
Things like the Chains of Pandemonium; environmental things that only affect mages of that Path using their Sight, because they only exist in that Supernal World.

>>46154814
Will you be able to use Life or Mind mage sights to gauge attributes on people? Or will that require a spell?

>>46154280

"Resonance" in this case just means the spirit manifestation-allowing Condition. It's like Death Sight detecting anchors.

We don't use the word to mean "interesting stuff you can see by scrutinising" any more because of exactly this confusion. That's just called Deep Information now. The third, related use of it in 1e (seriously, 1e called fucking everything "resonance") to mean a mage's magical fingerprint, which was one of the things you could detect with Mage Sight, is their "Signiature Nimbus" now.

As ever with a 2nd edition, the worst thing you can do is assume something works the same way as it did.

>>46154852
So can I go around being CSI wizard and matching people's Nimbus to their spells?

>"Magic is afoot. Scrutinize the corpse, boys. Looks like we've got a Banisher on the loose".

I've always loved the idea of magic leaving behind trace evidence, and it's the kind of thing I like implementing in stories. It allows you to have magic as a murder weapon without the cheapness usually associated with "a wizard did it"

>>46154832
That's a spell.

>>46154828
So, what, Mastigos can pull on those chains that are only there for them or trip over them, or an Acanthus could get pricked by those metaphorical or literal thorns, whatever that means? I'm assuming doing so is unwise.

>>46154852
I was talking about Resonance Qualities, such as a house with a primary quality of fear, and secondary qualities of pain and love

>>46154931
He's saying that's not what Resonance in 2e means. When Spirit Sight can read Resonance, it reads the flavour of Essence.

>>46154939
Yeah, but how does one find Qualities in 2e?

>>46154945
... Did you even read the document?

>>46154965
Yes, and I literally can't find where one would dig up the Resonance Qualities.

>>46154981
>As ever with a 2nd edition, the worst thing you can do is assume something works the same way as it did.
It's Scrutiny. How did you not get that? In this case, it IS literally the same term. It's like page three through six of eight.

>>46155124
Is it Surface or Deep information?
Is the primary Quality Surface Information, and the rest Deep, or what?

Since you get it, could you please explain, because I seriously don't.

>>46155155
Have you considered that maybe the reason there's not a hard and fast blanket statement on every thing is that it should be adjudicated on a case by case basis, like every other detail of a given mystery? Like maybe the undercurrent of terror is surface information if a haunted house is just that horrifying and you want to set the atmosphere right away, or maybe all those qualities are part of the deeper mystery and this only revealed with scrutiny, perhaps piecemeal or perhaps all at once.

>>46155207
Yes.

Is Princess any good? Like, at all?

>>46155428
It's a homebrew splat.
That should tell you everything you need to know.

>>46155428
>>46155511
It's decent enough.

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>only worked three or four weeks night shifts in 7eleven in one of the sleezier neighborhoods in Copenhagen (time is getting weird so I'm honestly not sure how long)
>woman with personality disorder turns up at 07:00-08:00 and sometimes hangs around 02:00-04:00 while sometimes screaming insults at the man with the white eyes because he's apparently an asshole and a pysho
>worrying amount of customers turn up disoriented with blood smeared all over their faces
>500 year old homeless Indian Canadian (no I have no idea how he ended up in Denmark) with a big white beard who:
>seemed extremely knowledgeable about economy, currency speculation, EU and US foreign policy
>invented the nuke
>lost 14 billion dollars in Mexico
>was probably gonna live another 500 unless he could find a good place to kill himself
>"they hurt me, but I got my revenge, 500 years ago"
>claimed a secret program was calculating the positions terrestrial bodies was gonna deleted itself in the year 2051
>generally shit would go down in 2051
>the prelude to it would begin in the year 2021
>told me all this with a tone of sage wisdom
>I gave him my lunch
>a homeless looking woman (again with blood all over her face) wanted to borrow the toilet
>tell her we're not allowed to let people use it
>she stands by the cooler and slush ice machines for a while before she leaves
>colleague does a round through the store
>huge mess of cappuccino cooler and blood all over the place where she stood
>razors there too
>looks like some kind of cappuccino blood ritual

Dunno why, but I felt I had to tell you.

>>46155645
The fuck?

>>46154852
>As ever with a 2nd edition, the worst thing you can do is assume something works the same way as it did.
I'm hoping the 2e Mage core is a lot more coherent than the CofD core then. I'm having to do a lot of "assuming something works the same way as it did" for that because the rules are missing from the book.

Re: Signs of Sorcery:

>We make it clear several times in the new core that the overwhelming majority of Mysteries aren’t caused by the Supernal World or the powers of mages (although everything can be examined using the Arcana, only mages’ spells are made with them).
>This first book, then, is about the subset of Mysteries that are Supernal. About the enigmas that land closest to home, the creations of dedicated mages, the collected lore of the Orders, and the always-there-behind-the-surface, immanent Supernal World.

I'm hoping this doesn't turn out like 2e Exalted's "most of the setting is Bronze Age so we'll get the magitech stuff out of the way in a really early supplement", putting out Wonders of the Lost Age, and then everyone deciding that this meant magitech is everywhere.

>>46155977
How do you mean?
That other supernaturals are common, or that the Supernal is everywhere?
Both are true, in their own ways.

>>46156054
"The first book is about Mysteries that are Supernal, therefore most Mysteries are Supernal."

i.e. the exact perception Dave has been working hard to avoid.

>>46156093
The Supernal IS important though, and it needs a sourcebook. I'm still a tad salty 1e didn't get one.

>>46155977

It's a risk, sure, but depending on which of my pitches get approval, not one that'll manifest in the books.

>>46156120

Yeah, so Signs started out as a "why have we not had an imbued item book yet?" note about five years ago, and came back with a vengeance when we starting planning all the changes to the Supernal World in the run up to second edition.

If 2e had not happened, we probably would have followed Left Hand Path with a book kind of like Signs.

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So... How does Mage Sight in 1e work? Everything is so vague and scattered across multiple pages that it just feels like a useless "mother may I" spell. Also why do Life and Matter not have an extra utility alongside their Sights like how Mind lets you read auras?

>>46157309
It IS a "mother may I"-spell, but it isn't useless.

>>46157309
>"Mother may I"
You're playing a roleplaying game, anon
Everything is a "Mother may I"
Mage Sight isn't useless, the 1e core just has a horrible layout
Life Sight lets you read the life signs of people(heart rate, blood sugar, etc), fuck if I know about Matter

The purpose of Mage Sight is to let you see magical shit that falls into the purview of whatever Arcanum you're using at the time

>>46157805
>Life Sight lets you read the life signs of people(heart rate, blood sugar, etc)
But there's a completely different Unveiling spell that lets you see someone's health, so ostensibly Life Sight doesn't do that.

What 1e Mage Sight does is detect supernatural phenomena under that Arcanum's purview. You use the Scrutiny rules, which involves rolling Intelligence+Occult a lot.

>>46157805
Yes, I'm playing a game with rules. If the rules are unclear or ambiguous then that is a flaw. I know WoD is a "storytelling system" but there are other games that do narrative fluffy stuff better, in fact I think NWoD is DnD 3.5 levels of crunch.

>>46157934
Has Mage *EVER* been a game of "this thing already lets you do this, so no other thing can?" I don't think so

Spirit Sight lets you see Twilight Spirits, Death Sight lets you Twilight Ghosts, Mind Sight lets you see read Auras, all three of which could technically be done on their own with a separate Unveiling spell
That doesn't mean you can't do them with Mage Sight

>>46157992

>in fact I think NWoD is DnD 3.5 levels of crunch.

The problem with 3.X was its balance issues, not it's crunch. Crunch itself isn't a bad thing.

You know, I just realized that I'd really enjoy a Masquerade Dark Ages game playing as a Setite. Their "fight the power" religion becomes much more appealing the farther back in time you go.

>>46158014
>Mind Sight lets you see read Auras
I'm pretty sure that's a completely different spell.

Yup, having doublechecked, that's a Mind • spell called Aura Perception. Mind Sight doesn't even detect minds, that's a different Mind • called Sense Consciousness.

What the actual Mind Sight spell (called Third Eye) DOES is detect supernatural mental powers and events (ESP, Telepathy, stuff like the Majesty Discipline), and mental/emotional resonance (which is not auras, but instead the stuff that "flavors" Essence and Ley Lines. A place that's seen a lot of hatred over the years would have an Emotional Resonance of hatred, but it wouldn't tell you what a person is feeling right now - that's the Aura Perception spell).

Let me just go check the other Mage Sight spells:

>Spirit Sight lets you see Twilight Spirits
Not in 1e. You need the Spirit • spell Spirit Tongue for that. The Mage Sight spell for Spirit detects spirit resonance, gauntlet strength, and spirit-related supernatural phenomena like Werewolf Gifts and Spirit Numina.

>Death Sight lets you Twilight Ghosts
Not in 1e, you need the Death • "Speak with the Dead" spell to see ghosts. It detects Death-based Resonance and ghost powers (and ostensibly Sin-Eater manifestations, but those guys didn't exist yet when the book was published).

Mage Sight spells have a very specific effect.

>>46134832
>Gehenna when??

Gehenna is upon us.
The end is nigh.

>>46158166
By the same token, Life Sight detects Resonance, and detects supernatural Life-based phenomena.

Which includes... pretty much nothing I can think of except for Mummy. Sekhem would almost definitely fall under Life.

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>>46138194
>Chronicles of Fagness

>>46158315

What about Immortals or half of the Sin-Eater synthesis?

>>46135540
link expired.
Any chance of a more permanent link somewhere?

>>46158604
Mage Sight only detects active supernatural phenomena, so when the Immortal spends essence or whatever it would ping (and, say, a Sin-Eater coming back to life would ping it), but just the presence of another supernatural entity isn't enough. Just like how you have to cast a different spell to detect ghosts or spirits.

>>46158315
>>46158604
Arguably Werewolves in any form except for Hishu, and Prometheans
Sin-Eaters probably wouldn't ping anything, for Life Sight; there's no Life-related magic going on there, it's almost entirely Death-related

>>46158642

Here a link to the corrected CofD book.

Hopefully, someone will replace the doc in the original permanent link.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/onzka9

>>46158748

Peripheral Mage Sight only detects active supernatural phenomena. However, Active Mage sight will detect anything, active or not, within the purview of the Arcana used by the viewing mage.

>>46158769
>Arguably Werewolves in any form except for Hishu, and Prometheans
Mage Sight (at least in 1e) doesn't detect stuff that's just there, it detects stuff that's doing things. A Vampire using its Disciplines, a Mage casting a spell...

A Werewolf that's currently actively shapeshifting would probably do it, though.

>>46158807
Do you mean when changing forms, or when they are in other form?

>>46158797
>However, Active Mage sight will detect anything, active or not, within the purview of the Arcana used by the viewing mage.
I'm talking about 1e, where it absolutely doesn't. See >>46158166 You need a separate Death spell to detect ghosts, a separate Mind spell to detect Minds (and a different one to read auras), a separate life spell to detect living things (and a different one to detect the health of a living thing), a separate Spirit spell to detect spirits, etc.

>>46158854
When actively shapeshifting. Once they're done shapeshifting, you'd need to use a "detect werewolves" Knowing or Unveiling spell.

Again, this is all in terms of 1e.

>>46158772
Thanks

Someone has the corrected Werewolf 2e core?

>>46160045
>corrected Werewolf 2e core

https://www.sendspace.com/file/yk1sy6

>>46160199
Thank you

Is the strength chart in any of the 2e books or am I going to have to use the one in 1e core?

>>46158888

Mage 1e had its passive and active equivalents too. Mages had a universal Unseen Sense effect, and the actual spell highlighted resonances.

So here's a question about Demon.

Could a Demon make a Pact for someone's firstborn child and then take the kid's soul in order to establish a stronger cover for themselves by living the Cover's whole life from birth?

>>46160472
Yeah.

Active Mage Sight still covers a hell of a lot more stuff than the 1e version (Mage Sight spells) do, though.

Partially because the 2e version isn't a spell, and is instead an Attainment that gets much more thematic focus. For example, 2e Life sight shows you a person's general health and the presence of poisons or toxins. In 1e, that's a separate spell from Life Sight (partially because your Spell Control limit in 1e was much higher).

>>46160503
No. The child has to be able to understand the terms of the pact and give consent. You couldn't soul pact a kid till they were about 4-6.

>>46160503

The child would have to be the ine making the pact in order or the Demon to take him as a Cover. What he /could/ do is pact away that child's relationship, making it his own son instead if the person making the deal.

Has Dave discussed how supernal artifacts might be revised in Mage 2e?

I'm curious if they're still basically little more than automatic and fast recharging mana batteries?

>>46161025
Those are gonna get extensive rules in Signs of Sorcery.

>>46161094

No doubt, but any basic and fundamental changes to artifacts should still be in the new Mage 2e corebook.

>>46161025
>>46161094
>Chapter Five: The Manifest Supernal is about those Supernal Mysteries that do, in defiance of beginning mage’s lessons, sit in the Fallen World. Artifacts, eidoforms (platonic objects; the knife that is the symbol for “knife” and so forth), Sariras (the left-behind chrysalis of an Ascension), Hallows, Verges, Emanation Realms, symbolic places called Manteions like the Nevada test range or the ruins of Troy that are themselves magical symbols usable by mages, the creations of archmages, ruins of the Time Before, living expressions of magic like Ochemata, Ananke, and the Aeons, and secret people like Rmhoals and their cryptid animal equivalents.

>>46161126
Oh, I imagine so. It'll probably still be a merit you can take, and have basic rules.

Then SoS will let you make weird and unique artifacts with more in-depth rules.

>>46160553
>>46160639
The demon pacts are surprisingly honest, actually. People get talked into the whole soul-deal not by mustache-twirling trickery, but by desperation or a terminal 'addiction' to the lifestyles and other changes that the demon pacts offer.

Makes it very tough to feel bad for the 'victims' often enough.

So we all know beast is shit, but does anyone think it could be a little better if it had a fucking Y splat with social purposes?

You know instead of them all being solo faggots there was a court/order/tribe or some shit to give them a reason to do anything beyond, "Man I'm fucking hungry."

>>46161177
Not really. I mean, you can never truly have 'honest' information about complete and total oblivion, because that's not really something the human mind can comprehend. Beyond that, some of the examples of Soul Pacts have been things like a drug addict mother selling her soul to get clean and provide for her children, and the Demon then grooming her to have a comfortable middle class life style for when it took that life over. That's hardly the sex drugs and rock and roll that you're implying people get for their Souls.

Despite the one or two suggestions that Demons are always 100% on the level and clear about the terms of the contract, more often than not we're shown that they're taking advantage of desperate people in need of intervention and then grooming their lives. One of the fluff pieces even has a 0 Cover Demon going to someone's house and taking over her life before the agreed upon collection date.

There's also nothing that encourages the Pact to be 'honest', and quite a bit that encourages dishonesty.

>>46160503
No. If someone bargains away their firstborn, that means the Demon gets the child. It could even mean the Demon would become pregnant. But you can't get someone's life because their parent gave away your soul.

>>46160639
This creates a Demonblooded.

>>46161942
They're not 'solo faggots'. They're incredibly strongly tied to themes of created families and social groups. If ever there were a place where a progressive metaphor shines, it's in the way the fluff talks about how Beasts band together into Broods and support each other emotionally.
Unfortunately when cribbing from other WoD games for ideas, Matt didn't think about what Werewolf 2e does to make that theme work super well with the Pack structure. And also didn't create social organizations that would naturally spring out of this "family and social groups are everything" fluff.

Which, honestly, that's Beast's biggest problem: So much of what the game says it wants you to do is hamstrung by the game. That works sometimes ("You should always strive for high Wisdom, but circumstances tend to force you to compromise your morality"), but not in Beast, where there's not even a penalty for taking the easy route, there's a bonus.

Beast is a game that tells you to not give in and be the monster everyone says you are, even if you are a monster and proud of it. But it encourages you to be the biggest asshole possible.

The tone of Beast would change considerably if you gave them an Integrity meter, because then there would be consequences to things like feeding without some greater purpose (like teaching a lesson) in mind. Instead, killing is rewarded even though it goes counter to the themes of the game.

Meanwhile in Vampire, villainy is rewarded in the short term and becomes punishing in the long term as your Humanity falls.

>>46162125
Well sure, except for the fact that the "best" (i.e. least harmful) mode of play is indeed to be the solo faggot tagalong to a coterie of vampires or cabal of mages or whatever and to sit in the corner touching yourself while you watch the vampires feed.

What do you guys know...of the the Bugman? And how detrimental would having BOTH the Nosferatu and Mekhet bloodline curses be to a vamp?

>>46160428
use the 1e one

>>46162595
based on a guy who runs a website
also a joke on the kiasyd bloodline

>>46162506
Christ beast is a dissapointment

>>46162506
uuuuugh

I can't get it out of my head and it's really gross

>>46162779
Well that just made my day.

>>46162506
Flegh!

>Playmate Wizened.
"I AM LITERALLY A CLIMBING FRAME!"

I'm about to run my first real game after some fun one session games. It's Vampire the Requiem. Any advice, tips, warnings or common first time mistakes?

>>46163256
Anyone who wants to go out in the day is playing the Twilight theme in their head

>>46163256
don't forget that it's night time

>>46163298
>>46163302
Is forgetting it's night something that happens in vampire games a lot? I planned on the lack of day with one part where they need info from a guy in prison but prisons are closed to visits during the day. Hoping for them coming up with a fun prison break.

>>46135387
Men by definition can't be sluts

>>46163462
Depending on their resources, it'd probably be easier for them to just send a mortal thrall of one kind or another to visit the guy legitimately and get the info. If they don't have any mortal thralls yet they might as well get on with getting some anyway.

>>46163462
I don't know if it happens a lot but I've heard it happen to people. Most people aren't used to such a drastic change and tend to overlook some things.

It's worth keeping in mind.

>>46163566
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manslut

>>46137232
What book is this from

>>46137313
Bullshit. Mage is about academics who are all mana junkies fighting turf wars to get their next fix

>>46137313
Werewolf packs are more like local branches of megacorps.

They'll do their own thing with "science" no one else will ever see/understand, unrestrained by the law, molding the world to their own desire, and occasionally picking a rival and wrecking them while also being able to pull from other branches if the cost warrants it.

Try and get rid of it, a new one will replace the old one in weeks, keep being a bother, you'll find yourself wiped off the face of the earth after everyone's turned against you.

>>46137313
>What's is vampire society supposed to represent or compare to? What about the other 2e splats?
Modern Game of Thrones with a bunch of people who think they should be on top and some of them are willing to go extremely far to make sure they are.

>>46162506
No, that's not the best, because it doesn't let you do all the cool combined Lair shit that's so awesome. You're rewarded at least for being in a Brood.

So the "best" way to play is like five Beasts all jerking off to a single vampire feeding.

>>46163298
>>46163568
It's worth noting that VtR2e gets rid of the whole John Carpenters Vampire: Los Muertos thing of instantly catching fire when you're touched by the sun. At Humanity 7, BP 1 you take 1L every hour. You don't burn at all if you're covered. So a weak vampire who's indoors has more to worry about from being Lethargic than they do getting burned.

I actually had a Ventrue concept where the fact that she sunbathed was important for showing off a bit of decadence. It's uncomfortable and a wasteful use of vitae, but Riches gonna Rich.

File: sunban.png (68KB, 420x634px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46163911
>At Humanity 7, BP 1 you take 1L every hour.
It's every 10 minutes.

>>46163911
>>46163968
ewww, Vampire a shit

>>46164012
What? you don't want to be a handsome, twink dom that fucks all the big buff men with your vigor?

>>46163911
Does Resilience also help with damage from Sunlight?

>>46164322
It can, but at that point you're spending 1 vitae either way

>>46164346
?

Not activating Resilience means you take 1 Lethal per 10 minutes at best while sunbathing.

>>46164377
Activating Resilience costs 1 Vitae.

The sunbathing idea is stupid and it's pretty obvious the guy had the rules wrong.

>>46164394
>Activating Resilience costs 1 Vitae.
Yes?

What was the other thing that would also cost 1 Vitae, healing the 1 Lethal damage? Because a scene is a lot longer than 10 minutes.

Or wait, are Resilience's benefits even scene-long anymore?

>>46164322
No, Resilience doesn't.
>>46164346
It helps with fire, not sunlight.
>>46164476
It doesn't protect from sunlight. It doesn't act for a scene, it protects you from one instance of damage. Like armor.

>>46164508
So all the sunbathing Ventrue is showing off is that her blood is weak and she has a Humanity rating that means she's still too squeamish to do what she needs to do to survive?

So I know that Orders books or whatever from mage 1e are supposed to still stand up to 2e from a fluff perspective, but what about the Covenant books for vampire? I wanna learn about the Crones but don't wanna read a book just for it to become outdated info.

>>46164662
Pretty much.

Also she tends to go outside during the day where she'd be vulnerable.

>>46164703
As far as I'm aware, it'll hold true. Secrets of the Covenants is the next VtR2e book, but I'm pretty sure what we've seen for it so far is just expanding on the fluff in the core in new ways and 2e Cruac stuff

>>46164703
There's a 2e book coming out soon called secrets of the Covenants that's going to update pertinent covenant details

File: art from black hand.jpg (1MB, 850x1100px) Image search: [Google]

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http://theonyxpath.com/there-are-new-ways-to-get-our-stuff-monday-meeting-notes/

Art is from v20's new Black Hand book.

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>>46165360
Back in our usual sales channels, it is with great enthusiasm that I can announce that the Deluxe Mage 20th Anniversary Edition is shipping even as I write this. (It is with a lot less enthusiasm that I pay the shipping bill. That book is huge, and weighs a ton, and that costs a lot to ship!) This includes the M20 Q-Prime Ultra-Deluxe Editions as well, for those that were worried. And the M20 Screens, Dwight.

Here's the Mage 2e Acanthus.

She looks familiar so I'm going to throw it out there and guess her name is Lucy and she's a DJ.

>>46165393
Oh hey, it's Lucy Sulphate from Legacies: the Sublime!

She's less busty/curvy than I remember.

File: lucydj.png (2MB, 1094x1242px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46165454
also mekhet clanbook

File: Lucy Sulphate.png (202KB, 354x608px) Image search: [Google]

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>>46165393
>>46165454
For reference, this is what she looked like in 1e.

I liked her better before.

>>46165393
>Not tall, busty, or muscular
SEND IT BACK

>>46165563
>>Not tall
how could you even tell?

>>46165563
From the book, she's six feet tall, so tall for a chick I guess?

>>46165454
I dunno, you can see her hips through the shirt.

>>46165627
Six feet tall is absolutely tall for a woman.

That's above-average for a man, even.

>>46165525
what are her stats?

>>46165650
Mental Attributes: Intelligence 4, Wits 3, Resistance 2
Physical Attributes: Strength 1, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Social Attributes: Presence 3, Manipulation 2, Composure 3
Mental Skills: Academics 1, Crafts (Sound Engineer) 2, Medicine
(Street Drugs) 2, Computer 1, Science (Chemistry) 1
Physical Skills: Athletics 1, Drive 1, Larceny 1, Stealth 1
Social Skills: Empathy 2, Expression (DJ, Singer-Songwriter)
4, Persuasion 1, Socialize (Dancing) 2, Streetwise 2
Merits: Barfly, Contacts (Clubland) 1, Destiny 3 (Bane: The
Heart), High Speech, Resources 2, Sanctum 1, Status (Free
Council) 1, Striking Looks 2
Willpower: 5
Wisdom: 7
Virtue: Charity
Vice: Envy
Initiative: 6
Defense: 3
Speed: 9
Health: 7
Gnosis: 3
Arcana: Fate 2, Life 1, Mind 3, Prime 1, Time 1
Rotes: Fate — The Perfect Moment (••); Mind — Third Eye (•),
First Impressions (••), Incognito Presence (••); Life — Cleanse
the Body (•)
Legacy Attainment: 1st – World in a Grain of Sand
Mana/per turn: 12/3
Armor: 3 (“Misperception,” Mind ••)

>>46165648
Oh wow really? Glad to know I'm above average in something for once.

>>46165650
Mental Attributes: Intelligence 4, Wits 3, Resistance 2
Physical Attributes: Strength 1, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Social Attributes: Presence 3, Manipulation 2, Composure 3
Mental Skills: Academics 1, Crafts (Sound Engineer) 2, Medicine (Street Drugs) 2, Computer 1, Science (Chemistry) 1
Physical Skills: Athletics 1, Drive 1, Larceny 1, Stealth 1
Social Skills: Empathy 2, Expression (DJ, Singer-Songwriter) 4, Persuasion 1, Socialize (Dancing) 2, Streetwise 2
Merits: Barfly, Contacts (Clubland) 1, Destiny 3 (Bane: The Heart), High Speech, Resources 2, Sanctum 1, Status (Free Council) 1, Striking Looks 2
Willpower: 5
Wisdom: 7
Virtue: Charity
Vice: Envy
Initiative: 6
Defense: 3
Speed: 9
Health: 7
Gnosis: 3
Arcana: Fate 2, Life 1, Mind 3, Prime 1, Time 1
Rotes: Fate — The Perfect Moment (••); Mind — Third Eye (•), First Impressions (••), Incognito Presence (••); Life — Cleanse the Body (•)
Legacy Attainment: 1st – World in a Grain of Sand
Mana/per turn: 12/3
Armor: 3 (“Misperception,” Mind ••)

>>46165563
>>Not tall, busty, or muscular
>>46165710
>Strength 1
>No Giant merit
Everything seems to be in order

>>46165710
>>46165736
>Description: Lucy is six feet tall, slim and, in an unconventional way, exceptionally attractive — she was on the cover of MixMag on one occasion — with a graceful bearing, a ready smile and bright green eyes. She dresses as you’d expect a clubland hipster to dress, preferring bright colors, hipster jeans and skirts and T-shirts bearing bold, printed designs. Her favorite item of clothing is a Union Jack T shirt, closely followed by a flamboyant, fake fur coat. She has a tattoo of a tribal rose design across her lower back. Recently, she’s taken to wearing a silk scarf around her neck.
Lucy keeps her head shaved. If asked why, she says that she’s making a point about “gender or something.” Actually, it’s because of her nimbus, which manifests itself as electrical sparks playing across her scalp. Although the nimbus is not strictly real, Lucy can still feel the electricity in her hair and finds it quite uncomfortable. Shaving her head makes it easier for her.

>>46165747
Giant is like seven feet tall, so unless you want her to be as tall as a male basketball player?

But for the strength, she's a clubland DJ and well... look at all those drugs focused things.

>>46165747
She's got Striking Looks. Cosmetic muscle doesn't mean actually strong. Look at her arms >>46165525

How's that layout coming along, cucks?

>>46163968
Whoops. My bad. Still, you can generally handle being outside or in a car or in a building that doesn't have floor to ceiling windows, for at least a little while.

>>46164662
>>46164713
>>46164394
>The sunbathing idea is stupid and it's pretty obvious the guy had the rules wrong.
I didn't have them wrong when I came up with the character, just when I mentioned it here. It's Invictus (or Ventrue) style "I can waste" and Ordo style "I will not be denied".

The idea is basically just someone who's willing to deal with the pain of burning and the waste of spending vitae to feel the sun. Sure, it's not being an emotionless lord of the night, but that's what makes the character interesting to me.

Think of sunbathing as her touchstone.

>>46165525
That look like a Shadowrun character. From the bald sparks around her head, I would have thought she was a Mastigos.
>>46165523
That looks like one of the Nosferatu from Kindred: The Embraced.

>>46165764
>Recently, she’s taken to wearing a silk scarf around her neck.
Classic blood doll.

>>46165847
Actually, that was from her Legacy Initiation, which involved her hanging herself.

She's still got the rope marks.

>>46165881
Speaking of that, for those that care, she's under the Legacy of Pygmalion, A legacy of artistic nerds that give themselves synesthesia with their first fucking attainment.

>>46165836
>I didn't have them wrong when I came up with the character, just when I mentioned it here. It's Invictus (or Ventrue) style "I can waste" and Ordo style "I will not be denied".
>The idea is basically just someone who's willing to deal with the pain of burning and the waste of spending vitae to feel the sun. Sure, it's not being an emotionless lord of the night, but that's what makes the character interesting to me.
>Think of sunbathing as her touchstone.
She'd have to be drinking once every ten minutes just to keep up with the regeneration.

That seems deeply inconvenient. Can't enjoy a sunbathe when you have to get up every few minutes or end up starving from vitae loss.

>That look like a Shadowrun character. From the bald sparks around her head, I would have thought she was a Mastigos.
Nope, that's just her Nimbus. It's why I keep forgetting she's not an Obrimos. Acanthus have Inferior Forces, which makes the electricity bit weird.

>>46165920
Yup.

That's when she realized "Fuck, it's too late to hop on the 'superstar DJ' train. I'll become a producer." Now she gets rich by ferreting out and supporting new Sleeper talent.

>>46165736
>>46165710

>Acanthus
>Mind 3

Kill yourselves Acanthus faggots, even your bitches want the MastigosMind cock

>>46166004
Niggah I don't give a fuck about Mage, but that's the legacies focus, to use mind to spread the feeling and 'revelations' of art or some shit.

>>46166004
She's the sample character for a Legacy that grants Mind.

Also Acanthus are the Master Race Path. Their Arcana, especially when put together, are capable of more cheese and bullshit than any others, AND they have multiple Legacies that convert their Inferior into a Ruling.

>>46165393
>Union Jack clothing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mLvBWOMb4

>>46162665
>>46162665
Those fucking posts always give me a headache. It's like I'm trying to have flashbacks to a memory that was forcibly erased, or like I'm reading a journal entry written by some incomprehensible being.

>>46166036
>>46166038

Exactly she knows mind is the superior arcana and that's why she joined the path that wants to be a Mastigos alpha master race instead of a Acanthus beta cuck

>>46165764
That nimbus seems weird for an Acanthus.

>>46165946
It would be inconvenient, yes. I'm not saying she'd be spending all day erryday on the terrace naked with a glass of A+. Just that it's a thing she enjoys despite the trouble.

As for her nimbus, I assumed Mastigos because of the whole Professor X thing.

>>46166038
>She's the sample character for a Legacy that grants Mind.
That makes more sense.

>>46166040
She's actually English tho.

>>46166108
>Mind
>Superior
>When Shared Fate exists
>When Probable Cause exists
>When Forge Godsend exists
>When fucking PERFECT TIMING exists at one dot

And don't give me any of this "oh, those are Vulgar" bullshit. Paradox in 1e is a joke and the only people who think Mastigos have it better because Mind is Covert have never played Mage.

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>>46166141
>Paradox in 1e is a joke
Does that mean it's okay for me to use Vulgar spells? I'm playing a Moros and like half my spells are Vulgar.

>>46166141

The elimination of covert / vulgar distinctions, increased potency of the Arcana, and more severe Paradox in 2e will definitely shift many people's perceptions of which Paths (and Legacy combinations) are more powerful.